General Debate 17 February 2018

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smttc

Yes.
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February 17, 2018 8:00am
- pdm
  
  I thought you had gone into hibernation.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:14am
  - smttc
    
    I make rare appearances on Saturday mornings to prevent WoW and Stupidboy from being first poster.
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:17am
    - softail 1450
      
      smttc, you are doing gods work with that…….LOL.
      
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      February 17, 2018 8:29am
      - Keeping Stock
        
        Amen, amen and amen brothers!
        
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        February 17, 2018 9:04am
    - pdm
      
      A very worthy action.
      
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      February 17, 2018 8:31am
artemisia

Will s/he make the boat go faster.

The one and only question for the National caucus.
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February 17, 2018 8:02am
calendar girl

Duncan Garner seems to have been told by his media minders to spice up his political commentary:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/101512975/duncan-garner-want-the-nuclear-option-pick-crusher

Colourful language from Garner with which to explain / justify his own personal opinion.
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February 17, 2018 8:05am
- Kimbo
  
  Collins is, to use another analogy, “high risk/high reward”. Put it this way – she hasn’t disavowed the “polarising” description, indeed she doubled down on her “what you see is what you get and I always speak my mind” selling point. So Garner may well be speaking Judith Collins’ mind too, although not in the way she would like to massage her message! 😉
  
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  February 17, 2018 10:31am
Southern Raider

What did we learn last night at Eden Park.

That if you give away around 50 extras you’ll probably loose the match?
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February 17, 2018 8:06am
- MCos
  
  That would be ‘lose’
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:27am
  - VicParking
    
    From a loser
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:30am
  - softail 1450
    
    Mcos, spelling nazi.
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:31am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Oh nonsense. Politely pointing out a spelling error is no insult, let alone a form of fascism! It’s pretty worrying that so many people these days believe that ‘to lose’ is spelt ‘loose’. It’s useful to be able to correctly use both words.
      
      Merely skimming the Herald today I saw two stupid errors overlooked by the editors. Losers! They’re getting very loose with their spellings.
      
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      February 17, 2018 5:41pm
- flipper
  
  Mnnnnn ……
  Bowlers at that level do not do, ultra wide “wides” by accident.
  They do it to disrupt the flow of batsman.
  Marginal wide calls are just that – bowler misjudgment.
  But wide wides are a tactic which may or may not produce dividends.
  So I say it is silly to ascribe the loss to “extras”……
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:32am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  We learned that Doull was right about Williamson as T20 captain and as a T20 batsman. Continuing to bowl an inexperienced bowler at a crucial moment when the bowler had lost it was utterly moronic, worse it was incredibly cruel. The batting started to go wrong when Williamson inanely changed the order. When Monro went they needed to seal the deal. It was the moment for a true captain to come in and boss the innings. Williamson treated it as a development opportunity for the inexperienced and they all folded. Williamson bottled badly.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:35am
  - flipper
    
    Unless it was a Hesson / McMillian call imposed on K W.
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:45am
    - GazzaW
      
      The sooner the NZ cricket establishment pulls its snooty nose out of its backside and recognises that 20/20 is an entirely different beast the more likely we are to become consistently good competitors at the top level. We won’t beat Australia on Tuesday with Hessen in charge should we progress that far.
      
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      February 17, 2018 9:43am
  - pdm
    
    Tough on Wiliiamson.
    
    Actually I thought Wheeler bowled better than both Boult and Southee. His first over went for 16 but 14 of those were edges two of which would have been played on on another day.
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:58am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Why did the Williamson put Wheeler on for that last over at all?
    He must have seen that Wheeler was struggling and it ended in embarrassment all round when he had to be pulled for breaking a rule (bowling two bouncers in an over).
    The Aussie batsmen have just come out of two months worth of the professional Big Bash -they made the Black Caps look amateur.
    
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    February 17, 2018 10:28am
MCos

Tweet of the day so far

One of my favorite childhood memories is that I came home and witnessed my mom pounding a pan on the counter and screaming “Fuck Fuck Fuck!” When she noticed me she looked me in the eye and said “Sometimes you just gotta say Fuck!”
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February 17, 2018 8:09am
- VicParking
  
  My worse childhood memory was coming home to find my Dad pounding the next door neighbor on the couch and screaming :Fuck Fuck Fuck” When he saw me he yelled Get out and said “sometimes you just gotta Fuck!”
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:34am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Explains a lot.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:36am
Southern Raider

So Australia is about to deport another “kiwi” looser back to us.

This time the Surfers Paradise guy who hit another man from behind and then laughed outside court when he wasn’t convicted.
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February 17, 2018 8:09am
- Digmen1
  
  We need a place where we can deport these scum to.
  
  Some remote island off the coat of NZ, or one close to the Chatham Islands.
  
  Not quite as cheap as a bullet.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:21am
  - VicParking
    
    They all want to go to Auckland so send them to the Auckland Islands.
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:36am
  - igm
    
    As most of these losers are not real Kiwis (have been given easy citizenship) they should be booted back to their countries of origin. In fact, Aus should be asked not to send them here, but to where they belong.
    
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    February 17, 2018 5:00pm
- MCos
  
  That would be ‘loser’
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:28am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Fuckin` A MCos, yet you`ll get bagged by the same people that moan about Te Reo yet can`t be bothered speaking English.
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:44am
  - kowtow
    
    Missed the full stop there, dick head.
    
    Glaz houzez and all that .
    
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    February 17, 2018 10:02am
- peterwn
  
  He was convicted but got 12 months probation instead of prison. He is in a detention centre anyway – awaiting deportation. Seems he does have a choice – go to NZ immediately or go to NZ via a few years on Christmas Island.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:57am
- Piniwi
  
  Interesting SR he only got probation but won a ticket home while most understood it was after a custodial sentence they would fly. Is this a progression and a strong indication that Aus/NZ relationship is “warming” to the COL? Or are things are showing a little more heat? Our kitchen, our heat control.
  
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  February 17, 2018 5:22pm
Huevon

“Rife with sexual misconduct”
“a boy’s club”
“sexist and alcohol-fueled culture”

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/101495453/sexist-culture-extends-beyond-russell-mcveagh-law-professionals-say

Sorry to rain on the parade, but I worked in corporate law for a number of years and never saw anything like this. Maybe I wasn’t invited to the right parties, but in my experience the law firm culture is very PC, strictly professional and not particularly glamourous.

Just my 2 cents.
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February 17, 2018 8:12am
- fernglas
  
  I am familiar with the environment as well, Huevon, and I am aware of any number of instances of inappropriate conduct towards female staff and lawyers, usually by some sad sack who hasn’t got the ability or ambition to be much more than a hired hand for the rest of his life. Where it came to light, it was always dealt with promptly and with proper consideration; the increased presence of females around the partners’ table and in the legally qualified workforce has ensured that.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:17am
  - Paulus
    
    I wasn’t gong to comment re the Russel McV saga but will from a family perspective.
    Granddaughter Auckland Uni goes for Internship in Wellington with major Corporate – gets job along with seven other girls after hard yacca from their HR dept (all women).
    She says that the competition from the internees once there is intense, albeit that those are not many years out of college and are naive.
    What they were doing was to try as hard in all respects as possible as they saw only the opportunity to get a job with them next year.
    Gdd thought it was amusing but was unpopular with HR when she told them that she would not offer herself for employment with them at the end of it.
    What I am saying is that the competition for placements via internships with major companies is intense, and a Law degree I am told is more heavily fought over as there are far more people with a Law degrees than jobs, unless you have connections.
    As there are more females with Law degrees than males it is going to be more intense.
    Gdd with two good degrees (not law) has had job she loves, via another internship, for three years.
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:59am
    - Piniwi
      
      Cheers Paulus along with that in these enlightened times there will be an equal and statistical increase in GID lawyers. So perhaps they also need to think about LLB( ) with the right GID preferred option added.
      
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      February 17, 2018 5:41pm
  - Piniwi
    
    Perhaps fernglas but that would be a matter of how others see it. Factor in two important figures. A) more females in law these days and B) not all females are women as we would conventionally know them. This has a big impact on the preferences they choose. The old male flirtation is getting as dangerous as suicide as Mash told us about the latter. It is no place for a red blooded male who dares get between two dykes.
    
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    February 17, 2018 5:34pm
- G152
  
  Wannabes making it up since 1888
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:32am
- Chris R
  
  I agree. I was an Associate in a large Law Firm in the 1980s and most years a few students were hired to assist with research etc.. I recall some of the young females being absurdly flirtatious particularly with the more senior partners (read: those with most influence.) This was not always the case but it was apparent and understood that a faction of young women fully appreciated that sexual appeal and a hint of availability could be a useful ladder in their career prospects. The issue may be that working 15 hour days is routine and a degree of intimacy often developed within a team. This rarely manifested itself in anything physical but it was warmer than collegial. I suggest the present “campaign” is using what may be entirely consensual relationships as armaments in a non-existent battle against men. I’m too old to need to care now but have tried to instill in my sons the need for caution when dealing with young women in the workplace. I say caution because it is no longer sufficient to respect them as that respect does not protect against a scurrilous accusation.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:50am
Longknives

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/101447348/gattung-says-fletcher-wouldnt-have-foundered-with-a-woman-at-the-top

“If a woman had been chairing Fletchers, that wouldn’t have happened,” she said. The room broke into a thunderous applause.”

What the fuck? How are people getting away with such utter codswallop??
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February 17, 2018 8:17am
- fernglas
  
  You misunderstand the logic. It happened with a man as chair, therefore it would not have happened if a woman had been there.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:19am
  - holysheet
    
    Shouldn’t it have been a chairperson? Therefor a person would have saved Fletchers.
    What’s gender got to do with it?
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:29am
    - DifferentPerspective
      
      Actually it’s sexist to say “Fletchers“, should be “Fletcpersons.
      
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      February 17, 2018 8:43am
      - mikenmild
        
        Fletchers should have stuck to making arrows.
        
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        February 17, 2018 9:23am
      - RF
        
        Many sub contractors in Christchurch who during the EQ repair period were forced to drop their hourly rates by massive amounts to get a few crumbs from Fletchers.
        
        They were screwed and then waited months for payments….
        
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        February 17, 2018 12:08pm
    - VicParking
      
      Right. “They” say the Female sex are equal in all regards so why would they not make mistakes the same as Males. ‘There are two sexes, male and female. They are equal in worth, although each is unique and different.’ Just as they have different genes they also have different built in positives and negatives. ‘It is impossible to blend maleness and femaleness into a single sex.’
      
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      February 17, 2018 8:51am
      - holysheet
        
        “There are two sexes, male and female”
        Sorry but not anymore.
        At the last count there were more than 70 LGBTwhat everthefuckyouare choices you have to call yourself.
        
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        February 17, 2018 9:35am
      - Viking2
        
        Used to be three. Men, women and school teachers. I think that still works.
        
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        February 17, 2018 1:21pm
    - kowtow
      
      No , the fashionable term these days is the gender neutral “chair”. So it was a piece of furniture that fucked up ,or not.
      
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      February 17, 2018 10:08am
      - Nostalgia-NZ
        
        I agree with Gattung. Fletcher have been off track for years, walked away from their core business, got rid of experienced peopled, screwed their own contractors. A smart woman like Gattung wouldn’t have done that.
        
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        February 17, 2018 11:49am
      - Viking2
        
        Nostalgia-NZ
        
        I agree with Gattung. Fletcher have been off track for years, walked away from their core business, got rid of experienced peopled, screwed their own contractors. A smart woman like Gattung wouldn’t have done that.
        
        Really!
        Ask the Telecom shareholders what happened to their share value that she destroyed along with her Male Chair.
        
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        February 17, 2018 1:23pm
- Manolo
  
  Absurd, indeed.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:23am
- Huevon
  
  I recall IMF head Christine Legarde saying something similar, that the Global Financial Crisis wouldn’t have happened if the banks were run by women.
  
  The radical feminists showing their true colours – they don’t want equality, they just hate men.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:24am
  - waikatogirl
    
    I agree it doesn’t matter which sex is running the show, but an inept person with the ability to make huge decisions is always going to come unstuck eventually. What is it these days employing decision makers with no practical building experience?
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:31am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Sir Ralph Norris was not inept. Everybody makes mistakes.
      
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      February 17, 2018 8:46am
      - waikatogirl
        
        Never said it was Sir Ralph himself, but the buck does stop at the top.
        
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        February 17, 2018 8:52am
      - Viking2
        
        Yes he was. CHAIRMAN means just that.
        Guiding and monitoring is the function.
        Not putting stamps on envelops.
        
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        February 17, 2018 1:25pm
    - peterwn
      
      The CEO does not need practical building experience, but does need an enquiring mind and not take things for granted. Top level management of building projects is all about risk assessment and management. Those with building experience are well placed to deliver successfully on a predictable project – no foundation issues, satisfactory labour supply and no unpredicted cost increases. These areas of unpredictability need to be identified and dealt with in a formal manner. The company who can best handle these unpredictable areas is the one who will be the most successful. Seems Fletchers was good with dealing with these matters until the former CEO moved in and dismantled that area of expertise naively thinking he was stripping out unnecessary management layers. That area was probably handled informally but reasonably effectively so the significance of that work was not recognised and probably did not come to Board attention. They may not havemade money for the firm but they avoided financial bloodbaths. And now that expertise no longer exists the current CEO has decided it is no longer ‘core business’ to do vertical construction contracts. Most probably too that decision was needed to appease the lenders.
      The Board Chair too takes blame for not having the former CEO under proper governance control and not ensuring the audit and risk committee was properly constituted and had inquisitive people who could identify potential risks such as those associated with pricing.
      It is hard to say whether having women in the Chair and/or CEO role would have ‘saved the day’. It may be that a fresh approach could be of immense value – someone who is highly intelligent, inquisitive and thinks outside the square and not too much previous immersion in management and governance under yesterday’s circumstances.
      
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      February 17, 2018 9:35am
    - freethinker
      
      Quite right and disagree with Viking above that Gattung was smart perhaps Viking forgets that under Gattungs leadership Telecom lost significant shareholder value and Telecom recorded the biggest nz corporate loss of $1 Billion I recall. Women are no different to men in business & politics if you consider the results of Merkel, May, Lagarde and Killery to name just a few.
      
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      February 17, 2018 2:10pm
  - Digmen1
    
    As if women ever invented much, or started many major businesses, or did any exploration, or started a great country or religion.
    
    I can only think of Madam Curie
    And Queen Elizabeth
    (and the ladies that invented the windscreen wiper and twink)
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:40am
    - waikatogirl
      
      And the dishwasher. What a legend!
      the car heater
      life raft
      outside fire escape
      syringe
      modern fridge
      computer algorithim
      icecream maker
      wireless technology
      etc
      
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      February 17, 2018 8:52am
      - holysheet
        
        You left out the art of being bitchy.
        
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        February 17, 2018 9:36am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @WG
        And the dishwasher. What a legend!
        
        The first thing I did when we moved into our Gizzy house was throw the dishwasher out and install a pastry block into its place.
        What’s the use of having a hubby and a dishwasher?
        
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        February 17, 2018 9:37am
      - jonno1
        
        Through her invention of spread spectrum wireless technology, Hedy Lamarr became the mother of the modern cellphone. A fantastic achievement.
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:21am
      - Digmen1
        
        OK, that’s a god list
        Add to that
        The Computer Bug.
        
        And I heard that Japanese ladies came up with the idea of the
        
        Breadmaker
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:24am
      - JibberJabber
        
        Not to forget Miss Shillings orifice!
        Saved many RAF pilots lives.
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:59am
      - waikatogirl
        
        Speaking of bitchy holysheet!
        
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        February 17, 2018 11:54am
      - Johnboy
        
        It’s lost on the non-aeronautical JibberJabber! 🙂
        
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        February 17, 2018 1:30pm
      - Viking2
        
        Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @WG
        And the dishwasher. What a legend!
        
        The first thing I did when we moved into our Gizzy house was throw the dishwasher out and install a pastry block into its place.
        What’s the use of having a hubby and a dishwasher?
        ———————————————-
        tough lady.
        
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        February 17, 2018 1:42pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      There are a lot of self-made female Chinese Billionaires (about 10-15% of all Chinese billionaires)
      
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      February 17, 2018 9:28am
    - Chris R
      
      I learned recently that the woman who invented “twink” was the mother of Michael Nesmith who was in the Monkees. She died not long after her achievement but her estate was understandably very wealthy.
      
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      February 17, 2018 9:28am
      - redeye
        
        Twink is defined in the urban dictionary as:
        
        Twink is gay slang for a young man in his late teens to early twenties, with traits that can include attractiveness, having little or no body or facial hair, a slim to average build, or appearing to be younger than their actual age.
        
        She would have needed some assistance from a man but I guess you could say that a woman invented that.
        
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        February 17, 2018 12:24pm
    - Piniwi
      
      But, but Cloewitch tried and failed like her bill.
      
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      February 17, 2018 5:47pm
  - jcuk
    
    Huevon … Or else sick of men stuffing around in two, at least, senses of the word.
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:51am
- JibberJabber
  
  LoL, mentioned this to my wife.
  Her response, “didn`t Telecom turn to shit under her management?”
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:27am
  - Paulus
    
    Yes, was unhappy with her turn of CEO so sold my shares – good deal as proven later,
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:04am
  - peterwn
    
    She recognised Yellow Pages had no future because of the internet (Yellow Pages operations around the world relied on aggressive assertion of copyright law). So she sold it to an overseas pension fund at top price and the investment turned to custard a few years later).
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:47am
    - howitis
      
      Not true.
      The board rejected the sale of the Yellow Pages a number of times but the Canadian buyers came back with a ridiculous offer (2.4 mill) and the board was in essence compelled to sell at that ridiculous price.
      
      It was about 3 times over market value AFAIR.
      I think hapless Gattung was gone when that deal was done.
      
      This was 2007 and one of several absurd deals before the GFC bit such as Mediaworks purchase by Ironbridge.
      
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      February 17, 2018 11:48am
    - freethinker
      
      So that indicates that Gattung correctly identified yellow pages likely demise and sold it for top dollar to a rich schmuck so much for female fairness, surprised gattung didn’t become a Labor party leader.
      
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      February 17, 2018 2:16pm
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Says the woman who’s only job as boss was to retain monopoly statuss for Telecom – which, of course, because she was a woman (sarc) she failed to do.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:39am
- CJames
  
  Ms Gattung can look on her leadership of Telecom as proof that a woman can successfully manage a large company because she is a woman – not. Why don’t people call out this rubbish.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:56am
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  A few people seem to have forgotten the skullduggery that went on at Telecom on Gattings watch. Glasshouses and all that.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:57am
- KevOB
  
  Women have to work twice as hard to get only half the distance…
  
  That seems to be true at the top. Theresa Gattung has proved herself at that level. She has earned the right to be very critical of Fletcher’s failed Board. Have they isolated themselves and devolved commercial risk decisions on hundreds of million dollars contracts to staff? I don’t see an issue of gender or diversity as it is now being called but one of common sense and ignorance of a Director’s duties. Many women would have performed better. To get “diversity” we just need to stop considering people as a group but as individuals. I’ve hired a 10 women office team with two males at the bottom.
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:06am
- howitis
  
  Gattung was simply Rod Deane’s proxy.
  
  She was not a true leader and made some boo boos. She remains a ra ra, yakkity yak, PR person.
  If she was that good she would have parleyed her time at Telecom into a decent CEO role elsewhere like UK; USA; or Australia.
  
  As it was she was not that clever at business and the wider community knows this.
  Her achievement since being a 7 year CEO of NZs largest listed company : not a lot.
  Food bag, a dabble in the rural sector, and lots of women’s causes.
  
  Her famous line sealed her fate:
  “What has every telco in the world done in the past? It’s used confusion as its chief marketing tool. And that’s fine”
  You just don’t say these things out loud.
  
  Gattung did little innovation and the company was split up after her departure (Chorus and Spark). She increased short term shareholder wealth by holding back on investment and innovation. It was a caretaker role – for 7 years.
  
  There are some excellent woman directors in NZ who did not have the springboard of being a young CEO at NZs largest listed company. They speak through their actions: Rosanne Meo; Liz Coutts; Joan Withers et al.
  Gattung is not in that league but in self promotion from a weak base she is in a league of her own.
  
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  February 17, 2018 10:11am
  - Kimbo
    
    Good post. Thank you. Genuine sentiment. You do much better when you aren’t demanding the assassination of Angela Merkel. Genuinely sentiment.
    
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    February 17, 2018 10:43am
    - howitis
      
      Suck on it Kimmy!
      
      You are not the hall monitor you like to think you are.
      
      I don’t want any praise from you -along with your pathetic backhanded ‘compliment’.
      
      Keep communication to a zero- that would be fine.
      
      Just keep your compliments – such as they are- for your moozlem mother in law.
      
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      February 17, 2018 12:06pm
      - Kimbo
        
        He he he. Now that’s more like it! 😉 Nonetheless thanks for the comments on Gattung. Was always my impression of the woman.
        
        But “hall monitor”? Come on howitis. You wrote what you did about Merkel, and you seem to mean it, so why would you object to your views being brought to the attention of us all from time to time? Now, as you seem to recall stuff I’ve posted from time to time, I can only leave you with the thought that my Muslim mother in law gives to me when she is able, “Do you read Holy Koran?”. 😉
        
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        February 17, 2018 12:11pm
      - Kimbo
        
        …but I haven’t yet replied, “Nah, Mum, but I find it makes for good firewood/absorbent toilet paper”. But then I have an in-law family with a Christian/Muslim faith divide to consider! 😉
        
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        February 17, 2018 12:19pm
Manolo

Some never know when to quit. Another re-thread:
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-romney-utah-senate-20180216-story.html

With an ode to his adopted home state of Utah and swipes at Washington and President Trump, Mitt Romney launched a political comeback Friday by announcing his bid for U.S. Senate.
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February 17, 2018 8:17am
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo , I bet that those were not your sentiments when Mitt was running against Barack 2012
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:25am
Happychappy

MSM like to rule the roost and create negativity to suit their own means. Who ever wins this race will have stories told about them of how dirty their campaign was because they will not the choice of some in our media and the media won’t be happy unless there is a rift amongs’t those standing so they can create another ABC club that caused rifts when Labour were the opposition.
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February 17, 2018 8:20am
JasonJohns

Pointy headed academics need to learn that their subversion has real world consequences
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/101499837/christchurch-academic-links-breakins-to-work-on-chinas-influence-campaigns
If you undermine our relationship with our biggest trading partner expect them to get angry
In Australia academics with an anti-China agenda are also feeling the heat
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February 17, 2018 8:21am
- JasonJohns
  
  If you want to cause trouble by subverting China…do it on your own dime…NZ universities can’t afford to be nests of anti-China thinking when we are totally invested in the country
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:28am
  - JasonJohns
    
    We can’t afford to go down this road
    
    Australia’s elite universities and the federal Education Department must set new standards to resist pressure from Chinese government officials to change academic content, according to a prominent think tank representing diplomats, academics and business leaders.
    
    A paper released today, China Matters, calls on Education Minister Simon Birmingham to “give a high-profile talk outlining the advantages and risks of having such a large cohort of international students from China in Australia”.
    
    In four prominent cases, academic staff at Australian universities have been targeted in Chinese social media campaigns after complaints from Chinese international students about “offensive” teaching material. In many of these cases the lecturers or universities apologised for the material, sparking a domestic debate about academic freedom.
    
    “It is essential that universities nationwide — with the (Group of Eight) in the lead — adopt a uniform set of procedures to counter harassment and even bullying of lecturers (or students) who are deemed ‘anti-PRC’,” the report’s authors Bates Gill and Linda Jakobson said.
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:29am
    - JasonJohns
      
      Lol…don’t undermine our main trading partner and your house won’t get broken into…words have consequences
      
      A New Zealand academic who made international waves researching China’s international influence campaigns has linked a number of recent break-ins to her work.
      
      University of Canterbury professor Anne-Marie Brady, speaking today from Christchurch to the Australian Parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee in Canberra, outlined three recent events which caused her concern.
      
      “I had a break-in in my office last December. I received a warning letter, this week, that I was about to be attacked. And yesterday I had a break-in at my house,” she said.
      
      She said this weeks’ burglary at her Upper Riccarton home was particularly suspicious.
      
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      February 17, 2018 8:34am
      - JasonJohns
        
        Academics have built up a religion of free speech…but in the real world it is a luxury…and subversion of our relationship with China in the name of free speech isn’t acceptable…time to tell NZ academics that if they carry on criticising China they can find new jobs…
        
        Anne-Marie Brady’s ‘expose’ of Chinese influence in NZ is very upsetting to our trading partner. The University of Canterbury had no business allowing it to be put up on the internet. They must intervene to remove it.
        
        https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/magic-weapons-chinas-political-influence-activities-under-xi-jinping
        
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        February 17, 2018 8:40am
      - kowtow
        
        You’re suggesting we become even more of a vassal to the Celestial kingdom than we are already ?
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:16am
      - Jack5
        
        Anne-Marie Brady has done great work on China. Her interesting comments have included questions about Rewi Alley, the NZ missionary-turned-fellow traveller in China.
        
        If the break-ins at Anne-Marie’s office and home were in fact the work of Chinese agents I wouldn’t be completely surprised.
        
        The peaceful Chinese Falun Gong folk often display a banner in Christchurch’s Burnside Park facing Memorial Avenue, the route to the airport.
        
        Some times you will see, standing in nearby trees, a Chinese man in a suit, or a smartly dressed Chinese woman. Often they will have a smart phone trained on the silent Falun Gong people as they sit on the ground, hands in a prayer position.
        
        If not recording sound or video, these observers must be trying to intimidate the Falun Gong folk.
        
        The Falun Gong people now are appearing less often at this site.
        
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        February 17, 2018 11:27am
- KevOB
  
  After the Chinese have bought out control of the Aus. mineral industry as a supplier should we not expect they want to strengthen their hold. The Chinese have made inroads by lending also to governments in the Pacific with implicit power strings attached. They are active here too in taking long term positions which may leave us as tenants in our own land. They are not the only ones. Some years ago a US based mafia organisation was prospecting to buy a whole Pacific state. Blatant, but several countries considered it.
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:21am
  - GazzaW
    
    It’s inevitable Kev that China will have an increasing influence over our country just as they have in the entire Asia-Pacific region and much of the rest of the world. I wouldn’t go as far as saying that it’s necessary for us to become tenants in our own land but there will need to be a degree of power sharing as Chinese influence grows.
    
    As an Aucklander I have seen my city radically change in terms of demographics over the last couple of decades. The Chinese are just one part of that change and I think their influence is largely positive. Educated, family values, law abiding and community minded, they certainly add value in my part of town. It’s interesting to note too that romance is playing a very big part in their absorption into our society – there’s a heck of a lot of intermarrying going on in Auckland between young Kiwis and first generation Kiwi-Chinese and Kiwi-Indians. They went to school and uni together and they work and socialise together. Their kids are NZ’s future.
    
    Auckland is already heavily influenced by China. Over fifty flights a week arrive here from China packed with tourists who need to be accommodated, fed, watered, transported and entertained. And that’s just the tourism sector.
    
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    February 17, 2018 10:28am
    - AgentBallSack
      
      When Chinese move to New Zealand they try and become Kiwis. They cut out the eating of dogs, cats and sundry animals, and mostly abide by our laws. They do have a propensity to be involved in the black market shellfish industry and gambling (which Chinese love), but I would suggest at about the same level as Pacific Islanders (who still eat dogs when they live here and are totally useless gamblers). All the Chinese I know are hard working and extremely grateful to be a part of a country where they’re not just 1 in a Billion (and the same goes for the Thais I know). They pay taxes here and buy expensive items which in turn helps local businesses. Could do a lot worse with who we decide to let onto our islands. Could be chain migration beneficiaries who hate our western way of life.
      
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      February 17, 2018 12:11pm
      - KevOB
        
        Some of them also come here in a commercial capacity. One such, with ties to an Australian branch with Chinese control, sold me product with fake components despite $1M of purchases from him that same year. Caveat emptor–verily. The do have their own agendas and plan long term.
        
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        February 17, 2018 5:24pm
      - GazzaW
        
        Caveat emptor indeed.
        
        There are many here in a commercial capacity and as you know they work very closely in their own circles. I enjoyed business relations with China for fifteen years and rarely had a hiccup – in fact quite the reverse. I’m more focussed now on the social aspects of immigration and see very few negatives with Asian settlers as long as we set some firm ground rules. Conversely many Kiwis have to adapt their attitudes.
        
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        February 17, 2018 7:21pm
Digmen1

I read that the poor security guy at the school was not carrying a guy! (He wont be needing one now as he is dead)

I find that hard to believe in the USA, surely they should all be carrying guns.

It took the police 20 minutes to get there.
Lucily the guy walked away to Walmart and McDonalds. (He could have stayed and killed a lot more)
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February 17, 2018 8:23am
- G152
  
  US schools are ‘gun free zones’ but only to the law abiding.
  That’s why school shootings are, sadly, so common.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:36am
- Inandout
  
  They could sure learn a lesson from the Israelis who have stopped all school attacks by having a resident armed guard. I also believe all school access doors are locked during teaching hours. The Israelis of course have mad Arabs baying at the border so they have developed a very effective security system.
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:21am
  - cha
    
    There was an armed “school resource deputy” on the campus when the shooting began.
    
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/armed-guard-florida-school-encountered-rampaging-gunman-article-1.3822777
    
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    February 17, 2018 7:47pm
Digmen1

Has the MSM tv mentioned the Christchurch islamic attempted attacker yet?
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February 17, 2018 8:25am
- waikatogirl
  
  You mean the lone wolf or the mentally ill teenager?
  //
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:36am
  - KKKKatee
    
    Or the sexually frustrated teenage boy,,,,,,
    
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    February 17, 2018 12:13pm
- kowtow
  
  Someone posted yesterday the very valid point tht our MSM was in full on hype about the Florida shooter and yet where’s the coverage of this home grown threat?
  
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  February 17, 2018 10:31am
JibberJabber

LoL, have Stuff jumped the Shark or can they go lower?
Cupid stunts milk goes off.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/north-shore-times/101464187/ridiculous-amounts-of-milk-go-off-early-in-summer-heat-angering-consumers

Pro tip, put it back in the fridge after use, turn fridge temp down if problem recurs.
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February 17, 2018 8:26am
- waikatogirl
  
  I bought a fridge/freezer thermometer when I had a fridge with a dicky thermostat. Since replaced the fridge.
  I’ve found the thermometer very useful, as in checking whether the temperature is cool enough in this extreme heat. Fridge stuffed full of food at Christmas and the door being continually opened is significantly different from most normal use fridge day temp.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:42am
- jcuk
  
  Thanks for that link .. I had a bottle go off before ‘use by date’ and blamed the supplier … could be my old and originally 2/h fridge freezer.
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:01am
Paul Marsden

Theresa Gattung’s appalling, public statement if, as reported is correct, that “If a woman had been chairing Fletchers, that wouldn’t have happened,” is going to have severe percussions on her business career; her business partners and, for any shareholders of any business that she is involved with.

I have been a strong advocate for women in business all of my life and for Gattung to make such an absurd and unsubstantiated statement, which infers that somehow bad management is gender- specific, reveals an immaturity, naivety and an arrogance of someone who is way above their station.

It is my view, that her inane and offensive comments, are a setback for all NZ women in business.
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February 17, 2018 8:26am
- tf78
  
  I hope her comments are a setback for all NZ women in business.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:37am
- calendar girl
  
  Well said, Paul. A laughable comment by Ms Gattung.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:41am
  - waikatogirl
    
    Stupid comment by Gattung. A look at me moment. Does she not feel she is getting the kudos she once enjoyed?
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:45am
    - Digmen1
      
      Any schoolboy with accounting or economics or common sense could have run Telecom in those days.
      It was a monopoly.
      
      All they did was rip us off
      Hold us back with old technology
      And send our money to their US shareholders.
      
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      February 17, 2018 9:11am
  - jcuk
    
    Perhaps should be treated as most here did Bob Jones piece…. trouble these day folk seem so keen to jump in and take offense.
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:04am
- Huevon
  
  Will the Diversity forum that she was part of , of the Human Rights Commission, make a statement denouncing her comments?
  
  Of course not.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:48am
- Paulus
  
  Don’t fret she left with a few million dollars in compensation so has no money worries.
  Believe she gives expensive talks to other women whose companies are foolish to pay for them to listen and be uplifted..
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:08am
- howitis
  
  Since Gattung left Telecom there has been a vacancy.
  ….between her ears 🙂
  
  She is 100% sexist and needs to be called out for this.
  
  Her ventures since her overpaid role as puppet at Telecom (gawd:- J.A. following in the same footsteps) include:
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/100642244/posttelecom-life-prompts-theresa-gattung-to-sell-up-in-capital
  4 Feb 2018.
  …She has been involved in a number of business ventures, including My Food Bag, SPCA, and CoOfWomen (Companies of Women), among others.
  Her latest venture is SheEO, an initiative aimed at supporting new business ventures by female entrepreneurs. ….
  
  This ‘newspaper article’ is a free advert to sell her Wellington apartment such is her self-promotion skills.
  The lazy luvvies in the media are so useless at finding any real news – I’ll bet reading the WaPo and NYPost is hard labour to them- so Gattung gets promotion for her anti-men stance.
  
  It was Rod Bloody Deane ( a man) that allowed her an over- paid role well past her station in life and this is shown by the fact she never achieved anything like that again despite being only 44-ish when she finished at Telecom.
  
  Gattung is a nasty sexist but it is OK if you are not a white male.
  It seems to be her obsession.
  He Spinoff interview last year.
  https://thespinoff.co.nz/partner/business-is-boring/29-10-2017/the-theresa-gattung-interview-ive-always-been-very-stroppy/
  
  … In my business degree, I did Women’s Studies, which would still be pretty unusual today, but it was unheard of 35 years ago…
  How could it be unheard of if it was in the curriculum?
  
  … all these years later, that combination of being a business person and being a feminist is sort of cool now, but it definitely wasn’t cool then…
  
  So, If you think my opening comment about a vacancy is a bit harsh ….
  
  … At about two years into my business degree, I really put the feminist literature together with the business studies and saw there were no women running large companies in New Zealand…
  and so it goes on.
  If you read it, have a sick bag handy. I suggest you don’t read it. I took the hit.
  
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  February 17, 2018 11:27am
JasonJohns

Sad but true. America has disarmed itself. Bring guns back to schools and teach kids how to shoot and defend themselves and the problem with go away.
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February 17, 2018 8:26am
- Jack5
  
  JasonJ – are you sure you aren’t Kea?
  
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  February 17, 2018 11:30am
  - Awww C-mon
    
    Yeah it’s Kea.
    
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    February 17, 2018 11:46am
Manolo

An opinion is an opinion:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/goldman-sachs-ceo-gives-trump-210740747.html

The US economy is better off under President Donald Trump that it would have been under Hillary Clinton, according to Lloyd Blankfein, the CEO of Goldman Sachs.

“If the president didn’t win and Hillary Clinton won … I bet you the economy is higher today than it otherwise would be,” Blankfein said in an interview with CNN’s Christine Romans.

Blankfein had backed Clinton’s bid for the White House.
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February 17, 2018 8:27am
Manolo

Anti-Trump Mr Mueller doing his bit against the US economy:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/16/us-stocks-strong-week-volatility-rates.html

Stocks fell from their highs of the day after news broke that special counsel Robert Mueller indicted 13 Russian nationals in and three Russian entities for allegedly interfering with the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

The market stabilized and was slightly higher after Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein emphasized in a press conference that these indictments had no allegations of willing support to the Russians by Americans.
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February 17, 2018 8:36am
- JasonJohns
  
  Mueller’s clearly attempting a coup. He’s directly responsible for the stock market crash. Time to lock him up.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:44am
  - Ross12
    
    You have it wrong Jason
    Mueller has folded his tent but he had to do something to justify his time and the money. The indictments against the Russians are a joke. (“Disparaging comments against Hillary Clinton” –how weak can you get?)
    His report says they were doing things back as far as the 2014 campaign. Rosenstien has come out to clarify his actions saying there was no collusion in the 2016 campaign.
    
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    February 17, 2018 10:54am
- Inandout
  
  Wasn’t Rosenstein a committed Hillary supporter? Why has he still got a job?
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:29am
  - AgentBallSack
    
    Trump can’t fire him while he’s on the investigation the Democrats would shit themselves.
    
    1 1
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    February 17, 2018 12:18pm
  - cha
    
    Wasn’t Rosenstein a committed Hillary supporter?
    
    Rosenstein, life long Republican, former Whitewater investigator, Dubya nominee and member of the conservative Federalist Society in the can for HRC…really?
    
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    February 17, 2018 2:28pm
- Fletch
  
  So, these Russians posted a few things on Facebook, etc?
  
  The group is alleged to have spent years, back to at least 2014, building a social media following of hundreds of thousands by playing off of existing divisions and sympathies in the American political landscape. When 2016 rolled around, the groups operatives are alleged to have disparaged Hillary Clinton, Ted Cruz, and Marco Rubio, and used its influence to support Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.
  
  Oh, boo-hoo. So what? That’s not “interfering” in an election. Obama openly sent his election PR team over to Israel during their last election in order to defeat Netanyahu. How is that not interfering?
  
  Load of bollocks, but the media will try and make hay with it.
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:48am
  - Fletch
    
    http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/01/27/obama-sends-5-man-team-to-israel-to-defeat-netanyahu-in-reelection-175746
    
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-funds-aided-2015-campaign-to-oust-netanyahu-senate-probe-finds/
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:57am
    - stephieboy
      
      Fletch,
      
      Blog claims U.S. funded anti-Netanyahu election effort in Israel
      
      Or Ruling ,
      
      A conservative blog claimed, “Obama has been sending taxpayer dollars, at least $350,000 to fund anti-Likud, anti Netanyahu groups in Israel for tomorrow’s election.”
      First, there is the matter of the dollar amount. If any U.S. money was used to mobilize anti-Likud voters, it would have been in Israel. A more accurate figure would be $233,500.
      
      Next, there is a matter of the blog’s tense. “Has been sending” says the action is continuing. In this case, the money stopped flowing in 2014, before elections were called in Israel.
      
      Finally, the allegation that the money was spent to fund anti-Likud, anti-Netanyahu groups in Israel for the election is based on speculation. Yes, Obama sent money to OneVoice, a group that promoted a two-state solution. And yes that group partnered with a different group V15 that wanted Netanyahu defeated. But there is no paper trail that the money given to OneVoice was spent on an electoral ground game. It would be naive to ignore that OneVoice’s policy positions mesh well with V15’s voter mobilization, but that’s different from saying that American taxpayer dollars were spent by V15.
      
      That may change as more evidence comes to light.
      PunditFact’s rulings are based on when a statement was made and on the information available at that time. This claim rates Mostly False.
      
      http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/25/blog-posting/blog-claims-us-funded-anti-netanyahu-election-effo/
      
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      February 17, 2018 10:10am
marleybob

The Greens have lost any credibility as a party that had aspired to put environment first, How many dead rats do they have to chew on before they realise that they have now become cannon fodder.
Maybe it’s a good time for a new Green party, such as Forest and Bird becoming political.
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February 17, 2018 8:38am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Forest and Bird becoming political.
  
  F&B has been political for a very long time. I gave up membership yonks ago. Their current CEO is ex-Green MP Kevin Hague.
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:47am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Maggy Wassilieff, this open letter to the leaders of all parties before the last election shows Forest and Bird Striving to be non partisan as they have always being ,
    
    http://www.forestandbird.org.nz/what-we-do/publications/media-release/open-letter-party-leaders
    
    Gosh you are so petty and small minded .
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:57am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      F&B have very good PR.
      It’s called spin, stephieboy.
      
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      February 17, 2018 10:18am
      - stephieboy
        
        Thus you think retiring head of Fish and Game , Bryce Johnson , and on the board of Forest and Bird s all spin ?
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/98683446/national-portrait-retiring-fish–game-boss-bryce-johnson
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:27am
      - GazzaW
        
        Not good enough spin to avoid me telling their door-knocking bludger to fuck off yesterday.
        
        I will resume normal service once they and the Sallies, Greenpeace et al get their heads right out of politics. Oxfam is on a lifetime ban.
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:34am
      - sooty
        
        As stephieboy goes round and round in circles.
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:40am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @stephieboy
        re Bryce Johnson
        
        are you trying to tell me that concern for our waterways is not a political issue?
        
        Look at what I was commenting on at the start of this link… F&B has always had a political bent….
        
        Sometimes I approve of their campaigns… but not always.
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:41am
      - Albert_Ross
        
        “I am concerned about the state of our waterways” is not a political statement.
        
        “The state of our waterways is all the fault of the National government” is a political statement.
        
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        February 17, 2018 11:43am
    - Jigsaw
      
      Forest & Bird have been political -as in support for the left and none for the right- for at least 20 years now. That’s when I left. And its got worse. Not surprised you haven’t noticed Stephie-well actually I am sure you have have noticed its just that it suits you…..
      
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      February 17, 2018 1:06pm
JasonJohns

Weijin Chen is a chinese traitor living in auckland. He publishes a provocative online magazine Beijing Spring which undermines our key trading partner. http://bjzc.org/en/164.htm

Time to let him know that residence in NZ comes with conditions.

If he wants to keep his NZ citizenship he should lie low and respet our trading interests. If we did decide to deport him we’d get a lot of credit from Beijing
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February 17, 2018 8:44am
- Inandout
  
  Does Chen speak with mosque radicals as well?
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:48am
  - stephieboy
    
    Inandout , yet again paranoia got the better of you ?
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:52am
Paulus

Question
How many of the parents of the US school massacre have guns ?
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February 17, 2018 8:45am
- stephieboy
  
  Paulus , if some did are they somehow culpable for the Florida school tragedy and gun control insanity that allows the mentally ill , “the right to bare arms “?
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:17am
  - mara
    
    SB, the mentally ill should have their arms covered at all times.
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:37am
- Inandout
  
  How many parents have pedestrian killing motor vehicles?
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:50am
Disaster Area

A question for people who know more about this subject than me:

After the latest mass shooting in America there have been the usual arguments about gun control. One argument against increased control is that ownership is guarenteed by the Constitution and is therefore sacrosanct. Yet it is the second Amendment that is quoted, implying that the Constitution can be changed.
Would it be possible to ‘amend’ the 2nd Amendment to clarify the ownership of modern weapons?
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February 17, 2018 8:47am
- rangitoto
  
  Requires 2/3 of both houses and then ratified by 3/4 states. Alternatively 2/3 of states can call a constitutional convention. In other words it wont happen.
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:57am
- Inandout
  
  Much better to have an FBI which is not scared of acting on information supplied. The number of times they have idiots in their sights but have failed to act is damning. The Vegas shooter is still a mystery.
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:52am
  - Disaster Area
    
    I would suspect that the size of the US population and the number of FBI agents would make any meaningful investigations into these reports pot luck.
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:59am
    - Inandout
      
      Agreed, but the FBI have the most advanced technology known, stuff that we can only imagine.
      
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      February 17, 2018 10:30am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Yeah, if only there were some warning signs to make him stand out from amongst everyone.
      Like maybe, being expelled from School, engaging in stalking behaviour towards his ex girlfriend, School security staff warned about him and not to let him in if he was wearing a back pack.
      And maybe a Facebook post detailing exactly what he went onto do.
      Oh, and maybe this:
      https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/deputies-called-to-suspected-shooters-home-39-times-over-seven-years/
      
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      February 17, 2018 11:12am
      - Disaster Area
        
        The important point is that even after everything you mentioned, and the fact that the FBI was aware of him (regardless of their actions), he was still able to legally buy an AR-15.
        
        In which other country in the world would that have been possible?
        
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        February 17, 2018 12:20pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        You realise an AR is just a semi automatic rifle?
        It is not a military weapon.
        Oh, And I think he had his guns before all that happened.
        Not after.
        Maybe they should have taken his weapons away once they were made aware.
        That’s the point.
        The FBI also received specific warnings about him on Jan 5 on a tip line set up expressly for such things and did nothing.
        This is not the first time that something could have been prevented if the law was actually enforced.
        
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        February 17, 2018 12:31pm
      - stephieboy
        
        All on Red, Ok why not lobby to have the “ harmless “ AR15 readily available for the mentally ill in NZ .
        
        LOL
        
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        February 17, 2018 12:46pm
      - stephieboy
        
        All on Red, Ok why not lobby to have the “ harmless “ AR 15 readily available for the mentally ill to buy in NZ ?
        
        LOL
        
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        February 17, 2018 12:47pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        To add, the FBI has 35,000 staff and a budget of $9 Billion.
        Not investigating these tip offs is a massive failure.
        Also the FBI is supposed to approve each purchase.
        Why wasn’t the Deputies reports on this guy over the years be able to be available to the FBI?
        I would have thought that was very important.
        That’s the sort of gun control vetting needed.
        Also I reckon the US needs to face up to the growing issues of Prescription drug usage, the breakdown of families , isolation and the consequences of that.
        All of which play a part in shootings like this plus of course male suicide by gun- which far outweigh this sort of thing.
        
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        February 17, 2018 12:48pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Here’s an AR15 for sale in NZ
        https://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting-shooting/rifles/centrefire/auction-1547988024.htm?rsqid=09f22f4d598f47ddbe7c00b2af39aaf0
        
        So Stephie do tell us what psych tests someone should have to go through to get it? – in your opinion.
        
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        February 17, 2018 12:55pm
      - stephieboy
        
        All on Red , you’re naturally talking about over the counter sales no questions asked ?
        
        You need a special addition to your licence (called an endorsement) to:
        
        possess or use pistols for target shooting (B endorsement)
        collect pistols and restricted weapons or stage theatrical performances involving pistols and restricted weapons (C endorsement)
        
        possess or use military-style semi-automatic (MSSA) rifles or shotguns (E endorsement).
        
        http://www.police.govt.nz/advice/firearms-and-safety/standard-new-zealand-firearms-licence
        
        Please cross check to see if the mentally ill can apply for firearms licence
        
        LOL
        
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        February 17, 2018 1:02pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        There are no ‘over the counter sales, no questions asked’ in NZ.
        What class of weapon is an AR15 like in that ad in NZ?
        Where does a semi auto rifle fit on that list.
        But answer the question. How is someone determined to be mentally ill?
        What do the Police do here?
        Do they talk to everyone’s Doctor?
        Looks like all they do is interview you and check your referees.
        Are Policeman trained psychologists?
        What’s this cross check you mention.
        
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        February 17, 2018 1:57pm
  - Digmen1
    
    As is the time line of what actually happened.
    
    Perhaps the FBI spent too much time watching Russians and Donal Trump.
    
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    February 17, 2018 1:22pm
brett68

When Amy Adams gets selected as leader, we can pretty much write National off as a right-wing or even a centre-right party.

You can definitely write off any chance of National winning in 2020.

Serious thought will have to go into establishing a new right-wing party I think that’s the only way to drag National remotely right.

National needs to split in two.
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February 17, 2018 8:52am
- Manolo
  
  True. National, aka Labour lite, is no longer a centre-right political party.
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:08am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Go Judith.
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:13am
    - tf78
      
      Judith is our Donald.
      
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      February 17, 2018 9:38am
      - sooty
        
        Build that wall.
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:43am
- Happychappy
  
  The media is winning with guys like you, they want divisions in Nationals ranks just like happened with Labour. This is how Winston got to run this country by creating a wedge about Maori and immigration and as you know now some people fell for his lies, hence we have the situation we have today. I don’t mind people falling for it once but to lead a break up of National is dam stupid and that is Winstons wish.
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:10am
  - brett68
    
    If they go with Amy Ardern there’s a high risk of that scenario eventuating.
    
    In their pursuit of the swing voter, National has lost sight of who they and who they represent.
    
    I believe this is creating a lot of disillusionment and they’re only polling as high as they are is because there’s no other option for anyone right of center
    
    A decent centre-right party fronted by a high profile candidate like Judith Collins would probably get 20% right from the get-go.
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:29am
    - brett68
      
      Sure it would be to the determent of National as most votes would come from Nationals ranks, but it would free up National to then properly stake out the middle ground and pursue the swing voter block.
      
      That type of party is perfect for Amy Adams, the current one isn’t.
      
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      February 17, 2018 9:36am
    - Happychappy
      
      Dreams are free.
      
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      February 17, 2018 9:54am
      - kowtow
        
        Not if you discuss them with your psychologist.
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:26am
      - Happychappy
        
        kowtow maybe there is a few on here need to see psychologist as Winston played them this time and many times before and he has just about or will get his ambition of busting National apart if these clowns achieve splitting Nationals vote.
        
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        February 17, 2018 12:16pm
    - Kimbo
      
      @ brett68
      
      In their pursuit of the swing voter, National has lost sight of who they and who they represent.
      
      Er, no. As National is historically New Zealand’s natural party of government, championing as they do the status quo, or at best pragmatic and incremental change, pursuit of moderate swinging voters on both sides of the centre divide is indeed, “whom they represent”.
      
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      February 17, 2018 10:50am
    - Gravelroad
      
      “In pursuit of the swing voter, National has lost sight of who they are and who they represent.”
      Agree with you there Brett68.
      National has tried to be all things to all people resulting in a weakening of their core support base.
      National needs to be much clearer with their vision and purpose and not ashamed to pursue policy which they believe to be in the best interests of NZ as a whole. Nick Smith’s gutless back down on RMA reforms, for example, being a case in point.
      National blaming Winstone 1st for that, while the easy option, was an insult to all the hardworking people out here trying to make NZ a better place.
      
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      February 17, 2018 10:59am
    - wiseowl
      
      National for some strange reason , still do not understand MMP or do not want to.
      Under the silly system they should have realised that working with the Conservatives or NZF was the logical thing to do.
      Instead they went with a race based party and pissed off a mountain of Nat supporters and proved they were not interested in anything except power.
      They are now full of Liberals and Progressives that are leading the country to socialism .
      It is very interesting watching the moves in Australia where there are similar problems .
      Cory Bernadi could build a very good party and may work with Hanson in the future when Turnbull gets done by Shorten and the unions.
      
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      February 17, 2018 11:29am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  brett68, there your chance , along with Manolo and coy , form a breakaway Trumpeter party . Taking over where the shambles of a Conservative party left off .
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:14am
  - Inandout
    
    How is your Christchurch mate coming along, the mosque treating him well?
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:58am
  - softail 1450
    
    streppieboy, know it all dickhead.
    
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    February 17, 2018 10:44am
- Inandout
  
  Amy, our very own progressive, by her own admission. Judith all the way for me.
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:56am
- flipper
  
  You mean like split between the Collins/WO/Lusk group and all the rest of the Membership (excluding the Collins boosters who are NOT Members and are regarded with disdain) ??????????
  Akld Division Nay
  Central/Waikato Nay
  Lower North Island Nay
  South Island Nay
  
  Please become a NP Member and then read the NP constitution and rules !
  
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  February 17, 2018 10:13am
  - GazzaW
    
    Well said flipper. There’s a lack of awareness of where the party memberhip wants to position itself on the political spectrum. For those who are demanding a significant shift to the right either join the party and effect that chsnge from within, join David Seymour or start your own party. The majority of party members are happy with the status quo.
    
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    February 17, 2018 10:47am
  - Nostalgia-NZ
    
    I noticed that Collins was advocating her leadership without any MPs standing behind her as Adams would later have when being interviewed. Then Collins made a call (whinge) that Adams was breaking a protocol by having her supporters behind her when interviewed, but I recall that BE had done the same so thought there was no such protocol. A few hours later the NP stated that there was no agreement, although there had been a discussion. So Judy, was not calling it straight, which made me think the ‘discussion’ was that it ‘wasn’t fair’ that Amy had apparent supporters among the National MPs while Judith apparently did not – so she responded and got sprung. I still think she was part of seeing Bill off, because she made the comment about how good Bill was as leader, however said that she could work with other parties – an inference that Bill could not, the reason he was encouraged to go. This was in the same interview where she made personal comments about the MP, then claimed she wasn’t making things personal, sure. Something odd about Judith that she considers what is foremost in her mind and that listeners may not put things together for themselves and form their own opinion. She also reached out to newer MPs who she said should be getting promoted, could be sensible on the one hand or indicate on the other that the tried and true were not flocking to her cause. I like to think that will be an issue. Also many MPs who are saying nothing means the leadership is getting proper consideration.
    
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    February 17, 2018 12:15pm
    - waikatogirl
      
      Judith Collins said she answered a question by the msm asking why she didn’t have any MPs standing with her. She said it would have been odd if MPs were present as she was alone in her apartment when she tweeted her intention to stand for the leadership.
      
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      February 17, 2018 12:45pm
      - Nostalgia-NZ
        
        She must have chosen the place as to where she would be interviewed. Either way there is no embargo on a leadership candidate appearing with supporters as she claimed.
        
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        February 17, 2018 7:37pm
- Jigsaw
  
  Absolutely correct. Everything she says just sounds like Labour-lite and denies people a real aternative political view. National with the same racial policies and climate change garbage is not a vote winner.
  
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  February 17, 2018 1:12pm
- RF
  
  I heard Amy Adams being interviewed yesterday.
  
  Talks too quickly and sounds as if she is reading off a script.
  
  Has not got the X factor.
  
  Bridges does not sound sincere, talks in the 3rd person and murders his speech.
  
  Crusher has baggage but sounds as if she is keen to kick the commie chick’s arse.
  
  She has my vote..
  
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  February 17, 2018 1:20pm
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace: When will GOP ‘wake up and realize it has blood on its hands?’

“MSNBC host Nicole Wallace on Thursday questioned when the Republican Party will “wake up and realize it has blood on its hands” for its inaction on gun violence following the mass shooting at a Florida high school.
“Democrats who are for gun control are fine doing more for the mentally ill, but Republicans who are for doing more for the mentally ill never want to have a conversation about gun control,” the “Deadline White House” host said. “When is the Republican Party going to wake up and realize it has blood on its hands?”

The MSNBC host accused the GOP of being “held hostage” by the National Rifle Association (NRA), referring to its massive contributions to lawmakers who are now insisting that Democrats should not use the latest mass shooting as an opportunity to push for new gun laws.

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/374151-msnbcs-nicolle-wallace-when-will-gop-wake-up-and-realize-it-has-blood-on-its
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February 17, 2018 9:10am
- Jack5
  
  Good morning Stephie X.
  
  A new Stephie has been rostered on. The punctuation improves, we get the American versions of some alternative spellings (realize) and a lift in composition.
  
  Whoops! Compare the posts of the Stephie at 9.14 with the one at 9.10, which I had been commenting on. Different punctuation. Different style.
  
  So we have two Stephies rostered on, sharing the pseudonym in the same thread of the blog.
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:19am
  - stigie
    
    Jack5:- Can you tell which one that sleeps with goats over the one that wants the 72 virgins or do both want it all..?
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:49am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    @jack 5
    You are analysing stephieboy’s scrawlings more intensely than me.
    However, it is clear that more than one commenter writes as stephieboy.
    One has an atrocious command of the English language and his comments are often incomprehensible.
    Another attempts to write in a “sophisticated” manner, but can be relied upon to stumble over the meaning of certain words or phrases.
    
    The fact that one stephieboy has no recall of what another has written here is particularly damning.
    Neither/None of them are very good at reading material posted here.
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:56am
    - GazzaW
      
      Neither stephie is a patch on ztev. Their fixation with the toxic US political machine bores me witless.
      
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      February 17, 2018 10:53am
    - Kimbo
      
      Be fair, Maggy. ‘Enron’ and ‘Exxon’ pass both the rhyme and alliteration test, so one can discern from whence stephieboy’s confusion arose. 🙂
      
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      February 17, 2018 10:57am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Be fair, Kimbo:
        I did award him pixie points for recognising that both company names began with a capital E.
        
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        February 17, 2018 11:22am
    - stephieboy
      
      Maggy W, still smarting over your Forest and Bird fiasco as at 9.47am ?
      
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      February 17, 2018 12:53pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Tell us more about how Trumps disapproval rating is decreasing..
        Everyday you make yourself look stupid.
        
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        February 17, 2018 1:50pm
      - stephieboy
        
        All on Red, and that the mentally ill and the average citizen of NZ can walk in and buy an over the counter AR 15 ?
        
        Clown !
        
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        February 17, 2018 1:55pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        How do you determine someone is mentally ill?
        Apart from membership of St Albans- obviously.
        All NZ Police do is an interview and referee check.
        So tell us more about this ‘mentally ill’ check you think happens.
        
        And an average NZer can buy an AR 15- once they go through the process.
        After all, with the correct length barrel and magazine it’s just a semi auto rifle.
        
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        February 17, 2018 2:12pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Maggy W, still smarting over your Forest and Bird fiasco as at 9.47am ?
        
        Not at all stephieboy.
        
        Look at what is written on their web-page:
        our staff can bring about better legislation and policy that supports (and protects) environmental protection.
        
        How do they do this?
        They act as an environmental lobby group to politicians, political parties, and the public.
        
        Do you understand what the word political means?
        
        F& B is not solely a bunch of folk who wander through the bush looking at birds and plants.
        
        They are players in the political scene in NZ and have been for decades.
        
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        February 17, 2018 5:30pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Maggy W , Forest and Bird are an environmental group who lobby governments ( irrespective of who is in power ) to protect Fauna like native species of firsts etc and Flora . Common sense . Since when that was a crime .
        
        Ye sit can have political consequences but the are not biased or partisan as you incorrectly claim .
        
        All on Red , a strict police vetting process that the US President and the NRA would find a total infringement of their 2nd Amendment rights Therefore totally unacceptable .
        
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        February 17, 2018 9:48pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Stephie
        Do tell us in more detail about this ‘strict’ vetting process you talk about.
        What does it comprise?
        Still waiting for your detail about a ‘mental illness’ test- apart from being a St Albans Church membef
        LOL!
        Like most leftie morons, basically you are full of vacuous crap.
        Btw the NRA trained and assisted African Americans to resist the KKK aka the Democrat party.
        As usual you show how truly dumb you are.
        
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        February 17, 2018 9:56pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Thank-you stephieboy.
        You agree with me that F&B has a political focus.
        
        that is all I ever said.
        
        I never said it was a crime.
        I never claimed they were biased, but now you mention it…
        They are.
        
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        February 17, 2018 9:56pm
      - stephieboy
        
        All on Red , are you thick or something ?
        
        Standard New Zealand firearms licence
        
        Download a standard firearms licence application form (PDF 30KB)
        If you are visiting New Zealand for less than a year and need a firearms licence, apply for a visitor’s licence.
        A firearm is anything from which any shot, bullet, missile or other projectile can be discharged by force of explosion….
        
        With six steps to be adhered to before a licence can be issued ,
        
        http://www.police.govt.nz/advice/firearms-and-safety/standard-new-zealand-firearms-licence
        
        Again a process that the NRA would find contrary to the 2nd amendment and therefore unconstitutional / illegal .
        
        Maggy W , i believe you were trying to cast a slur on Forest and Bird saying they were politically partisan , I’ve shown the facts are otherwise .
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:18pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        No Stephie
        You’re the thick one
        It well proven by now
        Not even worth debating you since it’s proven your opinions are worthless
        You’re a JOKE.
        Hahahahaha
        St Albans Church- what a bunch of nutters.
        SNIGGER!
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:36pm
      - cha
        
        NRA trained and assisted African Americans to resist the KKK
        
        Arse. Here’s what the NRA says on its website about its founding and not a sausage about African Americans, newly released slaves or the KKK.
        
        Dismayed by the lack of marksmanship shown by their troops, Union veterans Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate formed the National Rifle Association in 1871. The primary goal of the association would be to “promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis,” according to a magazine editorial written by Church.
        
        After being granted a charter by the State of New York on November 17, 1871, the NRA was founded. Civil War Gen. Ambrose Burnside, who was also the former governor of Rhode Island and a U.S. senator, became the fledgling NRA’s first president.
        
        An important facet of the NRA’s creation was the development of a practice ground. In 1872, with financial help from New York State, a site on Long Island, the Creed Farm, was purchased for the purpose of building a rifle range. Named Creedmoor, the range opened a year later, and it was there that the first annual matches were held.
        
        https://home.nra.org/about-the-nra/
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:36pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Maggy W , i believe you were trying to cast a slur on Forest and Bird saying they were politically partisan
        
        You can believe what you like stephieboy.
        
        You were the one who misinterpreted what I wrote.
        
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        February 17, 2018 10:49pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        So?
        It doesn’t mean anything if it’s not on their website.
        Tell you what
        Why don’t you stick to putting up videos of dead children
        Creep.
        What a POS you are.
        
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        February 17, 2018 11:44pm
      - cha
        
        You have a sexual predator, alleged child sex offender and as recently revealed, serial adulterer to defend so chop chop and get to it, filth.
        
        https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/donald-trump-a-playboy-model-and-a-system-for-concealing-infidelity-national-enquirer-karen-mcdougal
        
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        February 17, 2018 11:56pm
    - Viking2
      
      Either side of the whisky bottle top.
      
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      February 17, 2018 5:59pm
  - Inandout
    
    One is in Christchurch at the moment, schooling the potential killer.
    
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    February 17, 2018 9:59am
  - Manolo
    
    Yes, there are severals incarnations of the devout Muslim called stephieboy.
    
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    February 17, 2018 11:14am
  - Swifty
    
    Surely that was a complete cut and paste from Stephieboy.
    
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    February 17, 2018 11:16am
  - RF
    
    I figure 2 plus a reliever in training…….
    
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    February 17, 2018 1:22pm
Jack5

Christchurch plans to put a levy on rates for the next few years to pay for rebuilding Christchurch Cathedral and Christchurch infrastructure damage.

That is probably necessary. It would be nice if the money went to that, however, instead of luxuries like a $100 million new library building, street art. Staff numbers need to be looked at, too.

The council could look at floating a minority stake in Lyttelton Port Company and its works company which has contracts around the country.

The council’s majority stake in the airport is more complicated. selling that would trigger the Government selling its stake, which thanks to the sweetheart Ngai Tahu settlement would mean the tribe would likely end up owning it.

The model of drawing up your works plans then squeezing whatever is needed out of ratepayers is wrong. There’s little or no pressure to minimise costs.
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February 17, 2018 9:15am
- Huevon
  
  Part of the port was sold through a stock
  exchange listing years back, but 3 or 4 years ago the Council bought it back because…
  
  CCC really needs to do something about the rates. They are very high by national standards and, as you say, will only increase to fund other white elephant projects.
  
  If other asset sales have to first be offered to Ngai Tahu, then the Maoris really have gotten Christchurch by the balls. I hadn’t appreciate that. Surely council assets can’t be caught by a treaty settlement with the Crown?
  
  Christchurch needs a decent right wing mayor to sort things out. Not going to happen though. At then last election the only alternative was John Minto!
  
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  February 17, 2018 12:19pm
  - Jack5
    
    Huevon: Ngai Tahu have rights to buy Government property being sold in the South Island.
    
    The relevance here is to the Government’s minority stake in Christchurch Airport. If the Christchurch City were to sell its majority stake in the airport, that might trigger the State selling its stake to Ngai Tau.
    
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    February 17, 2018 12:51pm
KevOB

Those stakes owned by Christchurch City could be held by KiwiFund.
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February 17, 2018 9:32am
lastmanstanding

I see the Turnbull Bonk Ban is already resulting in OIA requests from journalists to Ministers.

And as others on KB have raised many questions around definitions and circumstances captured or not captured by the Bonk Ban.

Turnbulls actions sum up pollies on both sides of the Tasman inept ability to define good laws and therefore good governance.

They knee jerk on issues instead of thinking thru the consequences.

They are every ready to ban stuff and take away citizens freedoms.

Think Charter Schools. A ban because the Left doesnt agree with them. No logical reasoning just we dont like it so its banned.
Who says our freedoms arent being taken from us day by day.

Charter Schools proves the point.
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February 17, 2018 9:36am
nasska

What goes on in the heads of those confused commenters who ceaselessly call for National to go hard right?

There’s not one extra vote for National to be had by catering to the religio/conservatives. The latter may bitch, whine & snivel but at the end of the day they’re hardly likely to vote Labour…..though I concede that some of the particularly demented relied on Peters to give National “a backbone”.

There’s only one totally disaffected group of voters looking for a home & they are environmentalists who choke on the Green’s commie bullshit but see National as being too business friendly.

Covertly, or even overtly, National should be promoting a Blue/Green party to hoover up more of the centrist votes it desperately needs to regain the Treasury benches.
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February 17, 2018 9:46am
- brett68
  
  What goes on in the heads of those confused commenters who ceaselessly call for National to go hard right?
  
  There’s not one extra vote for National to be had by catering to the religio/conservatives. The latter may bitch, whine & snivel but at the end of the day they’re hardly likely to vote Labour..
  
  Just goes to show why another party is needed on the right, National obviously isn’t interested in representing them.
  
  Also, people don’t want a hard right party they just want a party that’s a bit more right then the current centrist option.
  
  It’s a bit grim when the only options are Labour or Labour lite.
  
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  February 17, 2018 9:52am
  - nasska
    
    ….”Just goes to show why another party is needed on the right”….
    
    Let’s kick that can a little further down the road.
    
    Say we had a new Conservative Party plus National. The centrists & swingers who decide who will govern are going to run for the hills if they think that they are voting for even more conservative, religiously inspired social control than National currently practises.
    
    The country is secular & the voters have demonstrated time & time again that they reject financial austerity. Your wish to have your own way on everything will deliver us to the Left for the next twenty years!
    
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    February 17, 2018 10:04am
    - brett68
      
      I’m not remotely religious or even that conservative.
      
      If there’s a group of people out their who are why shouldn’t they have their own party?
      
      We do have an MMP system and I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t have their views represented.
      
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      February 17, 2018 10:09am
      - Kimbo
        
        But that’s dodging nasska’s point which rebutted your original; post that national is not ‘right’ enough – in splitting the right vote, and in so doing driving moderate swinging voters leftward in revulsion, a right-wing fiscal and/or moral religious conservative party would deliver a semi-permanent Labour-Green government.
        
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        February 17, 2018 11:01am
    - JeffW
      
      Why is there an assumption that a party of the right must be socially conservative or religious? I consider NZ needs a party which is much more active in promoting individual reliance and less social engineering, a party which identifies the harm that paying people to breed when they shouldn’t be, and paying people to not work on a permanent basis. A party of the right should also identify the harm that govt regulations do for example RMA. This is nothing to do with religious or social conservatism but a lot about what National does not do. Such a party is badly needed if we are to save NZ from a slow descent under National or a more rapid decline under the COL.
      
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      February 17, 2018 3:48pm
      - Kimbo
        
        You mean, like say…ACT? ?
        
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        February 17, 2018 3:52pm
      - oob
        
        Well said, chap.
        
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        February 17, 2018 6:26pm
- mandk
  
  Speaking as a religio/conservative, I agree.
  
  The country needs a real environmentalist party to capture the deluded, tree-hugging Seatoun and Eastbourne votes from the Greens.
  
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  February 17, 2018 10:17am
stigie

“some of the particularly demented relied on Peters to give National “a backbone”.

Oh yeah, and how that worked well for them…? You never hear any comment from those people on here such as Dad and the like, i guess they are totally embarrassed by the whole fiasco !~
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February 17, 2018 9:56am
- Kimbo
  
  Chuck Bird dodges the question or changes the subject/obfuscates/issues off-topic interrogations every time he is called out for backing Peters. Then again, that has always been Chuck Bird’s MO. 😉
  
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  February 17, 2018 11:04am
Surely Knott

Winston Peters website has been taken down and now a search for NZfirst.org.nz yields an invalid url. A look on the wayback machine, shows that on Feb 4 his website had been changed to only a screen page saying a new website was coming soon. But a search back prior to the election Feb 2017 shows his actual website and a list of his policies. Nowhere can I see a Waka Jumping Bill described as his publicly stated policy. How telling to take down all documentation of your pre-election promised policies as this Waka scandal comes up. Did the greens just really sit around and dream up which policies they thought winston campaigned on made a list. No. They would have received a list of Winston’s demands through Labour. Or they would have printed one off the website which didn’t contain this policy. . Winston is rewriting history. He couldn’t even wait for the new website to arrive. He had to get his taken down. Pronto. Winston’s policies below. https://web.archive.org/web/20170203171025/http://www.nzfirst.org.nz/policies
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February 17, 2018 9:56am
- Awww C-mon
  
  Hang on, are you implying Winston is a lying and deceitful fucker?
  
  Colour me surprised and call me Chuck!!
  
  Great Post, SK!
  
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  February 17, 2018 4:13pm
Hugh Pavletich

Posted at … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/02/nz-labour-government-targets-property-speculators/#comment-3050935 … with extensive further associated material …

THE BRITISH HOUSING CRISIS & LIKELY POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES (REPEATING NEW ZEALAND’S RECENT ELECTION EXPERIENCE) …

Tories fear middle-class millennials priced out of housing market could sink party at next election … UK Telegraph (behind paywall)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/16/millennials-middle-incomes-half-likely-homeowners-1990s/

Young middle-class professionals are half as likely to get on the housing ladder as they were 20 years ago, a new study has found as Tory MPs warned that the issue is an “iceberg” that could sink the party at the next election.

A report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies said that just one in four young middle-income families now owns their own home, down from two in three in the 1990s. read more via hyperlink above …

Middle-income millennials priced out of homes market … Institute of Fiscal Studies Report … Financial Times
… google search title to access if blocked…

https://www.ft.com/content/024b1282-1236-11e8-940e-08320fc2a277

Ownership among young adults has ‘collapsed’, says IFS report … read more via hyperlink above …

… What lessons are being learned from New Zealand ? …

Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey | Scoop News

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1801/S00070/demographia-international-housing-affordability-survey.htm
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February 17, 2018 10:14am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  NZ Labour Government targets the property speculators – Leith van Onselen – MacroBusiness
  … note Pavletich comments on thread …
  
  https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/02/nz-labour-government-targets-property-speculators/
  
  By Leith van Onselen
  
  I noted in the lead-up to the New Zealand General Election, held on 23 September 2017, that Labour had an excellent housing platform that addresses both supply and demand distortions via negative gearing reform, banning foreign buyers of existing homes, tighter capital gains taxes, removal of urban growth boundaries, plus bond financing for infrastructure. Its plan to reduce immigration by around a third is also sound, and would help to relieve chronic housing and infrastructure pressures, especially around Auckland.
  
  Back in November, New Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern gave her ‘speech from the throne’, which confirmed that the Government would pursue its housing reforms in-full. And in December, new housing minister, Phil Twyford confirmed the timeline for these reforms in a speech to the Salvation Army.
  
  Included in Twyford’s speech was the promise that Labour would push “the bright line test out to five years so if a speculator sells a rental property within five years they will pay income tax on the capital gain”, thus effectively imposing a capital gains tax to most housing investors…. read more via hyperlink above …
  .
  .
  … Entertaining and enlightening political repartee … Labours Phil Twyford bringing out the best in National leadership aspirant Judith Collins …
  
  Phil Twyford backs ‘right-wing, red meat’ Judith Collins | Newshub
  
  http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/02/phil-twyford-backs-right-wing-red-meat-judith-collins.html
  
  … extract …
  
  … A high-profile Labour MP wants Judith Collins to lead a “hard, right-wing, red meat National Party” that has the “courage of its convictions”.
  
  Phil Twyford told The AM Show on Friday – perhaps facetiously – the “problem with the modern National Party is they don’t stand for anything”.
  
  “What did John Key ever achieve? Can anyone remember anything that he did? If Judith is the leader, [she] will bring back hard free market policy, locking up the crims and throwing away the key.”
  
  He compared her to hardline British Tory Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, leading to howls of protest.
  
  “How can people even put me in the same league? I’m so much softer,” Ms Collins said of her hero. … view and read more via hyperlink above …
  
  … Check out the GONE GONE GOING SECTION … http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org
  
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  February 17, 2018 10:27am
  - KevOB
    
    John Key achieved competent leadership that left NZ the envy of the world for the sound accomplishments of his team.
    
    Labour are a pack of amateur ideal driven ans bullying wannabes incapable of government. It showed during the elections but now its proven.
    
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    February 17, 2018 12:42pm
    - KKKKatee
      
      Ardern is incapable of drawing up a Balance Sheet let alone understanding one……..
      And she’s the PM!!!!!!!!
      
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      February 17, 2018 12:55pm
- Colville
  
  Young middle-class professionals are half as likely to get on the housing ladder as they were 20 years ago
  
  Yip I met one such couple last night. young educated and spend a couple of grand a week having fun. (they were drinking a $200 bottle of French fizz..).. but when it was mentioned that I speculated in property…oh boy did the fun begin 🙂
  
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  February 17, 2018 11:24am
  - waikatogirl
    
    Judith Collins says she wants to make it easier for first home buyers, stating that home ownership gives people an investment in the country.
    
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    February 17, 2018 1:13pm
- Luke Piewalker
  
  …. lapsed into a coma after scrolling past the first link. Geez Hugh you could at least give us a warning before you post.
  
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  February 17, 2018 11:32am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    The British Tories have been looking for trouble with housing for a very long time …
    
    Allister Heath in the UK (Tory) Telegraph July last year … (behind paywall) …
    
    Wake up Nimbys, the option is either Tory housebuilding or Marxist social engineering … UK Telegraph
    
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/05/wake-nimbys-option-either-tory-housebuilding-marxist-social/
    
    Time is running out for Britain’s housing Nimbys, who now face certain, crushing defeat. The pressure has become too great, the outrage of the propertyless too uncontainable, the need for change too overwhelmingly obvious. Denial or self-interested excuses dressed up as concern for the common good simply won’t cut it any more: we will soon start to build a lot more, and rightly so.
    
    There was a time when the UK dreamt of “homes fit for heroes”; today, our failure to provide enough housing in the right places for the younger generations is a national disgrace. … read more via hyperlink above …
    
    Google News Search ‘Telegraph Heath Housing Tories’ …
    
    https://www.google.co.nz/search?source=hp&ei=92aHWr_3LIyp8QXmi4bwCg&q=telegraph+heath+housing+tories&oq=telegraph+heath+housing+tories&gs_l=psy-ab.12…
    
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    February 17, 2018 1:39pm
Digmen1

Re the multiple Stephies and Ztrevs

If I ran this blog or Facebook.
Everyone would have to sign on with valid ID card eg drivers licence, and have a proper current photo.
Not of a beach or a cat.
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February 17, 2018 10:19am
- nasska
  
  For certain you’d drive off the stephieboys & Ztevs plus a few others only here to cause disruption.
  
  BUT at the same time you’d lose some of the most interesting commenters who inform us of what goes on behind the scenes. Think people such as parliamentary workers & professionals such as lawyers or accountants who couldn’t afford to have their identities strewn around the internet.
  
  If the blog was reduced to the opinions of a few of us retired fogeys it would become a desert by lunchtime. On balance DPF has it right.
  
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  February 17, 2018 10:40am
  - softail 1450
    
    nasska, yes agreed,if only ztev,hugh,streppieboy etc,etc could add a little laugh now and then, i despise dull humorless folk like them.
    imagine having a father like streppieboy FFS.
    
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    February 17, 2018 10:55am
    - sooty
      
      Imagine if you had to work with an idiot like that. What fun to be had over a coffee/lunch.
      
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      February 17, 2018 11:21am
    - GazzaW
      
      Imagine waking up next to stephie or ztev each and every morning.
      
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      February 17, 2018 11:48am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Yep, I can cope with the blatant political activists and trolls but find the foul mouthed ranters (Splooge, D4J) offer nothing of value or relevance,
    
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    February 17, 2018 12:54pm
    - stigie
      
      I disagree, Dad knows all there is to know about what happens in the south/west corner of Hagley Park !~
      
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      February 17, 2018 1:02pm
sooty

How many staff will the mother of the nations baby have to hire for child minding duties. Who’s paying for these people.
Just because she is annionted PM, why should the taxpayer forkout for their transport around the country side.
Mind you, lf Clarke is unable to travel, that might help.
Still going to need a couple to help.
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February 17, 2018 11:29am
- calendar girl
  
  Agreed, Sooty. Any working mother with young children has to make her own arrangements for assistance with the youngsters (along with her husband / partner). Either that’s going to be family (Gaylord has been mentioned in that context), or she will have to pay for outside help out of her own pocket.
  
  What’s the bet, though, that paid employees of the Government won’t be assigned routinely to various child-minding and other domestic chores? Will a publicly-available record of relevant times and costs be maintained for the sake of transparency and accountability?
  
  In my view Ms Ardern with her $0.5m p.a. salary from the public purse should be well-able to take care of housekeeping and child-minding duties out of her own pocket. I’m quite happy if the state shoulders the cost of normal surveillance and body-guard duties around the Ardern / Gaylord home property, but without being involved in the ‘domestics’ duties.
  
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  February 17, 2018 12:06pm
- RF
  
  I have this recurring dream of the Commie Chics boyfriend sitting there dunking his nuts in warm almond milk and waiting for the summons from up high.
  
  Believe me it’s not nice…
  
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  February 17, 2018 1:36pm
wiseowl

National for some strange reason , still do not understand MMP or do not want to.
Under the silly system they should have realised that working with the Conservatives or NZF was the logical thing to do.
Instead they went with a race based party and pissed off a mountain of Nat supporters and proved they were not interested in anything except power.
They are now full of Liberals and Progressives that are leading the country to socialism .
It is very interesting watching the moves in Australia where there are similar problems .
Cory Bernadi could build a very good party and may work with Hanson in the future when Turnbull gets done by Shorten and the unions.
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February 17, 2018 11:31am
- slightlyrighty
  
  I’m starting to think the Greens have a worse understanding, seeing as how they are now in government having achieved less than nothing and having to shut their mouths about their principles because they did not highlight it before going into government.
  
  They would have got more going with the Nats.
  
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  February 17, 2018 12:21pm
  - Paulus
    
    It appears that the Greens have been well shafted again by their agreement with Labour on the Waka Jumping Bill, which they by virtue of being kept in ignorance with their blanket agreement with Winston about which the knew sweet fa.
    The Greens must be the easiest lay in Parliament and they love being screwed to stay there.
    Sad sods – No Morality but we know that.
    
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    February 17, 2018 1:18pm
- Happychappy
  
  You are so full of shit wiseowl you probably never voted National anyway, Winston First played his cards over the Todd Barclay affair and he was never going with National and the pleasing thing about that is you have Labour now going to throw money at those you hate. You continually put Bill Englih down for avading Winstons questions in Parliament and since the Coalition has been in power and they have done the same over those few months not one bit of critisizm from you. So reading your hypocritically driven posts slagging National shows your political values and how precious the Messiah is.
  
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  February 17, 2018 12:44pm
  - wiseowl
    
    FYI.
    I spent 15 years in the National Party travelling to meetings and conferences and collecting donations from members as we did then.
    I have no connection with NZF.
    I do have the ability to see things more objectively these days and as far as I am concerned National have lost their way and I will make observations about them as I see them in this changing environment.
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:44pm
- Digmen1
  
  I know what you mean.
  But You cannot put any trust in Winstone as he never says who is going with till after the election.
  
  And the Conseravtives were led by an idiot, who fucked things up before they even got going.
  
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  February 17, 2018 1:14pm
emmess

We are starting to hear the same old bullshit from the media about how if National moves to the right by selecting Judith Collins, then a whole chunk of so-called centrist voters would desert National for Labour. This is not how the average voter thinks when considering who to vote for, more intangible qualities are considered.
In the case of Jacinda Ardern, many were sucked in by her virtue signalling, Judith Collins would appeal to many with her decisiveness. Sure, policies are considered but I cannot imagine that National at the next election no matter who is leading it would be promoting any ‘unpopular right-wing policies’, Collins I suspect would pick out a few populist policies to campaign on, though.
An Amy Adams or Simon Bridges lead National Party would give these floating centrist voters, no reason to vote for it. So they will think I may as well vote for the Labour Party or stay at home. Especially, in the case of Adams in the promotion of her self as the ‘socially progressive’ candidate, which perhaps that would be a selling point after a very socially conservative regime but what does that mean in current year? The one who would accept that there are 57+ genders? Why would anyone who is right-leaning, centrist or even slightly to the left be excited to vote for that person.
I just hope enough of the National caucus are smart enough to understand this. I have more faith in the voting public.
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February 17, 2018 11:31am
- mandk
  
  If being socially progressive is Amy Adams’ USP, why bother voting for her?
  
  Jacinda already does it better.
  
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  February 17, 2018 11:37am
- Paulus
  
  I wanna Mongrel, so if that be Collins, so be it.The COL has been let off too often so far.
  
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  February 17, 2018 1:21pm
Tauhei Notts

Friday night on the booze with National Party people. The 18 year old says go for Nikki Kaye. The 26 year old says go for Bridges. The 40+ all say go for the Crusher.
Yes, an 18 year old National Party voter is unusual.
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February 17, 2018 11:47am
Jack5

Everything you didn’t want to know, never needed to know, about the woman who threw the dildo at Waitangi.
She practised throwing the dildo for a month before Waitangi. This gives a clue to her politics:

“Butler describes her ‘top 3’ concerns as “TPPA, rivers, Pike River”.

While she wouldn’t throw a dildo at Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, Butler would throw ‘compelling arguments’. “

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/101457900/my-dildo-achieved-more-than-his-bullets-ever-did
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February 17, 2018 12:11pm
- niggly
  
  In the Stuff Comments section, it’s pleasing to read many people there pointing out that woman’s hypocrisy and double-standards.
  
  From one of the commentators she has a long history of causing trouble and attention seeking.
  
  She doesn’t seem that well informed either, despite years of getting herself involved in causes (she has rationalised the complex world we live in as being either simply black or white to conform with her worldview).
  
  Unfortunately every village has an idiot or two I suppose! 😉
  
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  February 17, 2018 12:49pm
Jack5

Martin van Beynen, who did such a great job reporting the Bain murder case, makes some good points on teaching in his column today in the Christchurch Press.

His topic is the stupid statement by the Secretary for Education, Iona Holsted, alleging an “unconscious bias” of teachers being responsible for under-performance by Maori kids.

How is NZ going to keep up with the world with PC twits like Holsted running the State education system?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/101495512/one-more-damned-thing-we-expect-of-our-teachers
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February 17, 2018 12:19pm
- sooty
  
  Holsted by her own petard, I do believe!
  
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  February 17, 2018 12:55pm
rightoverlabour

Following Bob Jone’s Maori Gratitude

SJWs, start downticking before you even watch. Real, freedom-loving people, enjoy “thank the whites family guy ”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvpjZ_WjnPg
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February 17, 2018 12:20pm
rightoverlabour

In terms of my pick for the Nats, I like a guy who is trained in hostage negotiation. When dealing with political terrorists like Pol Pot Peters, these skills could be useful. It’s also a fresh face, and does not seem to have baggage.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/101464323/could-a-dark-horse-be-the-surprise-winner-in-national-leadership-contest
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February 17, 2018 12:23pm
rightoverlabour

At least she is not ugly…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/101528383/former-playboy-playmate-karen-mcdougal-opens-up-on-alleged-donald-trump-affair

(Lucky Bastard)
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February 17, 2018 12:24pm
- Fletch
  
  Funny how the Left weren’t interested in affairs while Bill Clinton was president. Or JFK.
  
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  February 17, 2018 1:13pm
  - Johnboy
    
    All those lefty bastards wanted to shag Marilyn and cheered on their man! 🙂
    
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    February 17, 2018 1:15pm
    - Digmen1
      
      Or some poor Hatian Prostitutes.
      
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      February 17, 2018 1:17pm
  - Johnboy
    
    None of them criticised Fat Dave when he got it on either shall we note! 🙂
    
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    February 17, 2018 1:16pm
- Digmen1
  
  Karen was on my to do list a few years ago.
  
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  February 17, 2018 1:18pm
wreck1080

Could scream at the pathetic NZ herald and their green eyed jealous journalists at times.

“A Mount Maunganui property which sold twice within five months made a gross profit of half a million dollars for a Bay of Plenty couple.”

Key thing, is ‘gross profit’. Considering the house was stripped to the bones and rebuilt means that ‘net profit’ could actually have been quite small. On top of which , tax is paid, and there was a big risk of a property correction thus making it into a loss.

But, the herald seems to push the impression that 500,000 was made and pocketed without paying any tax.
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February 17, 2018 12:41pm
- Digmen1
  
  Unbelievable.
  
  Did they say how much hard work the couple did.
  Or the initiative they showed.
  
  No, they rather shows some homeless solo mum whose only contribution was to have opened her legs to five or six different losers.
  
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  February 17, 2018 2:37pm
- GazzaW
  
  That brings to mind the outraged Herald headline seen all too often.
  
  “Inner city hovel sells for five million dollars.”
  
  Wrong! The land sold for its true market value and the ‘hovel’ (usually an old but presentable cottage or villa) either bowled or relocated.
  
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  February 17, 2018 3:49pm
KKKKatee

Their reporting of the case is truly dumb….
Rich Pricks!!!! – said with tongue in cheek…..
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February 17, 2018 12:59pm
Digmen1

Aussie shows what to do with scum

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11996642

Good to see that their authorities responded to a petition asking for the guys deportation.

Unfortunately it just means that we will have to suffer from his thuggery arrogance

There needs to be big pictures on the internet and in the press (if any left) so that people can see what he looks like.

So that nobody gives him a job, or a house, or a vagina, or a benefit.
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February 17, 2018 2:35pm
- waikatogirl
  
  Another overly aggressive, violent arsehole returned from Aussie for us to deal with.
  
  I suspect his mother will be surprised ’cause he’s such a good boy.’
  //
  
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  February 17, 2018 3:33pm
- GazzaW
  
  Kelvin’s people will meet him, house him and provide him with money. The vagina is open to negotiation.
  
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  February 17, 2018 3:52pm
rightoverlabour

Any idea of the nationality or cultural identity of these idiots?

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/02/16/23-passengers-booted-from-carnival-cruise-following-bloodbath-brawl.html
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February 17, 2018 2:35pm
- sooty
  
  Australians?
  
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  February 17, 2018 3:47pm
- GazzaW
  
  Definitely Aussies.
  
  Unless there has been some misreporting this is the second such incident in a week. The other was a three day booze ‘cruise to nowhere’ from Sydney when two feuding stag parties tore into each other. The ship was forced to return to Sydney on the second day to a big welcome by the NSW Police.
  
  How would you like to share a dinner table on board your cruise with these animals?
  
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  February 17, 2018 4:01pm
Johnboy

Perhaps if all the Christian folk on KB prayed to God to send her a sign we could get her to pop over and lead the National Party as a prelim to taking over the world! 🙂
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/101528898/oprah-says-people-are-trying-to-persuade-her-to-run-for-president-but-she-hasnt-received-a-calling
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February 17, 2018 3:06pm
- nasska
  
  Donald Trump has a secret plan to beat Oprah at the next Presidency debates by ruthlessly exploiting her greatest weakness.
  
  Whenever she starts talking, his aides in the front row will wave around a chocolate cake and a bucket of fried chicken.
  
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  February 17, 2018 3:46pm
  - Johnboy
    
    No watermelon? 🙂
    
    3 1
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    February 17, 2018 3:59pm
- Komata
  
  Actually no as Saint Ophra has developed her own theology which is largely New Age in origin, concept and focus and owes very little to Christianity in its normally accepted form. Her supporters think that it and she is wonderful…
  
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  February 17, 2018 4:13pm
  - Johnboy
    
    I think the DeGenerate person has far more to offer as a Stupid Party candidate to challenge the Don at the next election. 🙂
    
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    February 17, 2018 4:16pm
Johnboy

It’s a bit slow here today. 🙂
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February 17, 2018 4:05pm
nasska

No RealityCzech & it seems that stephieboy has gone off for a bit of shut-eye on the prayer mat.

Sure takes its toll on the comment count. 🙂
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February 17, 2018 4:10pm
- Johnboy
  
  Now if Aldo, Brito, Aldo’s hairy wife and all the goats and camels returned it would be much more lively! 🙂
  
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  February 17, 2018 4:14pm
  - Kimbo
    
    If I said that instead of praying for Oprah, I make regular supplication for nasska’s eternal salvation I’m sure that would get a reaction. Oh, I just did! 5, 4, 3… ☺️
    
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    February 17, 2018 4:18pm
    - Johnboy
      
      But do you supplicate to Jehovah or Allah old chap? 🙂
      
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      February 17, 2018 4:21pm
    - nasska
      
      If I never get to where & what doesn’t exist it won’t be for the lack of prayer & beseechments Hughie gets on my behalf.
      
      Half the Godnutters on KB are concerned about the fate of my soul! 🙂
      
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      February 17, 2018 4:26pm
      - Johnboy
        
        All ways carry a GPS nasska…You’ll be right mate…All the other sheep will be astray! 🙂
        
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        February 17, 2018 4:28pm
    - Kimbo
      
      To God the Father, through his Son, Jesus Christ, in the power of the Holy Spirit. Trinitarian theology and praxis, the defining essence of Calvinist spirituality, my dear Johnboy. ?
      
      So, no, not to Yahweh as Judaism without the New Testament conceives and understand him, and not Allah.
      
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      February 17, 2018 4:28pm
      - Johnboy
        
        How can you be certain that the folk with the Mary statues and the pictures of the bleeding hearts aren’t on the true path Kimbo? 🙂
        
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        February 17, 2018 4:32pm
      - Kimbo
        
        As the first Reformer, Martin Luther observed, in his day there were enough alleged and church-approved relics in the form of pieces of wood in various churches and monasteries from the true cross of Christ to build an entire village. So, I’ll stick with the Protestants. ?
        
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        February 17, 2018 4:42pm
      - Kimbo
        
        But modern Protestants and Catholics do acknowledge we are both Trinitarian, so rightly view one another as family with some differences of belief, opinion and practice. Like most families do…
        
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        February 17, 2018 4:51pm
      - Johnboy
        
        Well you wouldn’t be allowed to burn each other any more what with all the clean air regs etc. 🙂
        
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        February 17, 2018 4:55pm
      - Kimbo
        
        True, although to clarify: while Catholics did indeed burn Protetants (the traditional medieval punishment for heretics), Protestants did not do the same to Catholics. Instead, in England, and as and when they visibly broke the Uniformity Act Catholics were dispossessed as recusants. And if they plotted to assassinate the Protestant sovereign and reinstall the papacy they were hanged, drawn and quartered as traitors. Like Guy Fawkes. But because she was royalty, Mary Queen of Scots had her head chopped off.
        
        But the Unitarian heretic Servetus was burned at the stake in Protestant Geneva, despite Calvin’s objections (he wanted the more humane method of the sword) in 1553. Got to get the details right. ?
        
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        February 17, 2018 5:06pm
      - Johnboy
        
        So Lady Whiteadder was lying about the cold snap!!!!
        Fuck I really hate being misled. 🙂
        
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        February 17, 2018 5:10pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Yes, despite the amusement and history-primer value, the Blackadder series is not a documentary. For example Field Marshal Douglas Haig was a good and capable general. Or at least imho, and in that of the revisionists of the initial Great War revisionists. But Sir Walter Raleigh was on an the make charmer King George III was mad at times, and the Prince Regent fat, lazy, profligate and dissolute. I digress. ?
        
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        February 17, 2018 5:16pm
      - Johnboy
        
        You must be a hell of a lot of fun at a party Kimbo. 🙂
        I’ve got to go. The wifes told me it’s time to cook dinner! 🙂
        
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        February 17, 2018 5:18pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Cheers, Johnboy. Life of the party, “Lampshades Kimbo”/”want to see my impression of an elephant?”, that’s me! ?
        
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        February 17, 2018 5:25pm
      - nasska
        
        Unsurprisingly I had never heard of ‘Servetus’ but I’ve just finished reading the Wikipedia article:
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Servetus
        
        As a professional, certified Grade #A Godwhack doesn’t it disturb you that religious history demonstrates that the faith owes more to political positioning than it does to grass-roots Godbotherering?
        
        You all profess to worship the same make believe God but you go to him stepping over the bodies of your fellow theists you have tortured & maimed .
        
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        February 17, 2018 5:27pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ nasska
        
        Good question, nasska, and one deserving of a straight answer. As a god whacker I take seriously and soberly the observation of my favourite atheist Christopher Hitchens that religion can lead people to do evils they would not otherwise do. Including a man of his times like Calvin, who stained his legacy of greatness in the matter of the death of Servetus. Or the Calvinists who perpetrated the superstitious evil that was the Salem witch trials. Or a whole host of other historic abuses that could be listed. So I endeavour to keep that thought in mind, especially when it comes to the illegitimate encroachment of bad religion into secular politics, or education, or science, or whatever.
        
        But I also exercise what I consider to be sober judgement, including that humanity is unavoidably spiritual, that human folly in the form of quasi-religious ideologies in manifold forms such as scientist abound, and that the abolition of religion, while solving some problems, would multiply others, and would not banish the human propensity for evil and folly.
        
        So just out of interest, how’s your personal stock take of how you personally contribute or diminish the sum total of human folly and mistaken and wilful arrogance going, much less the requisite humility to make a sober self-assessment?
        
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        February 17, 2018 6:08pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Typo: …quasi-religious ideologies such as ~~scientist~~ scientism.
        
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        February 17, 2018 6:21pm
      - nasska
        
        …..”how’s your personal stock take of how you personally contribute or diminish the sum total of human folly and mistaken and wilful arrogance going, much less the requisite humility to make a sober self-assessment”…..
        
        Probably bloody awful. I am above all a pragmatist & I realise that outside of my family & perhaps my friends I have no influence.
        
        The thing is that I don’t pretend that a belief in a magic man in the sky makes my sins to date forgiven or okay. As a humanist I have to answer to myself & that is more rigorous than adjusting my position with an ethereal being.
        
        Gods don’t kill people. People with gods kill people.
        
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        February 17, 2018 6:30pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Onya, nasska. Other than omitting to mention that people without gods also kill people, including sometimes because of it, based on that answer this god whacker can’t criticise you. And as far as being led acceding to your lights, yours seem
        brighter than many. Including some religious folks I know, including myself on occasions.
        
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        February 17, 2018 6:37pm
      - RF
        
        Johnboy…. I romanced a number of catholic girls when I was a youth. They were racked with guilt over impure thoughts and the dreaded sex.
        
        Many hours were spent convincing them that it was gods will and normal and they would not burn in hell.
        
        At least I believed that….
        
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        February 17, 2018 7:12pm
      - stigie
        
        You are doing amazingly well i reckon Kimbo, you’ll have Nasska converted well before Judith Collins becomes National leader ole chap !~
        
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        February 17, 2018 7:19pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ stigie
        
        Nah. Seems to me nasska’s a pretty good bloke. Plus we Calvinists aren’t into the slick “where would you go if you got run over by a bus on the way home tonight?!” snake oil persuasion of much modern evangelism. 😉 Instead…
        
        “26Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” 27But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.” (Luke 18:26, 27).
        
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        February 17, 2018 7:27pm
Inandout

There is a 2016 photo of our Princess standing with Annette King. The comment underneath this lower photo reads, ‘one of these women is an invaluable Deputy Leader, the other is a nice MP who smiles a lot, but has done little else in 2016. Now that sums up Jacinda 100%.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/86915070/Our-best-and-worst-MPs-Quiet-achiever-Amy-Adams-takes-top-gong

The article is about Amy Adams. Worth saving before it disappears.
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February 17, 2018 4:15pm
- Johnboy
  
  Say what you will about Annette. She was a dab hand at inflicting pain on the little children in her previous life! 🙂
  
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  February 17, 2018 4:18pm
- RF
  
  More supporting evidence confirming Cindy is an air head….
  
  A real smile and wave…… sorry no one home…….
  
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  February 17, 2018 5:37pm
sooty

How’s your Cankles Cindy?
Do you think you should have been walking in the gay parade?
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February 17, 2018 5:46pm
RF

Dear god… More selfies coming up from the bimbo taking part in the gay parade.

Sorry Cindy but not many give a flying fuck what you do.

FFS. This abnormal appetite for publicity is sickening. Get a life….
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February 17, 2018 7:06pm
- mikenmild
  
  The important questions are whether she plays more golf than John Key or shears more sheep than Bill English.
  
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  February 17, 2018 7:25pm
- MCos
  
  I note that Chris Bishop & Nikki KAYE were prominent on TV1’s coverage of the parade & I believe David Seymour was also there.
  Grant Robertson was there, of course, plus a plethora of other politicians.
  What’s your actual problem?
  Don’t like these people associating with an event like that?
  
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  February 17, 2018 10:30pm
nasska

….”This abnormal appetite for publicity is sickening”….

Wait until the Advent. We’ll be treated to 3D video in 8K resolution of the birth & the ceremonial cutting of the umbilical cord. The anklebiter will be sexed, weighed, measured on video then interviewed for its opinions on the birthing process.

About the same time that Grant is announcing a 75% tax rate on incomes over $50,000/pa.
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February 17, 2018 7:43pm
- Kimbo
  
  No wonder Jacinda Ardern wants to abolish the monarchy. Gets rid of the competition for the limelight in the form of Windsor weddings and babies! ?
  
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  February 17, 2018 8:04pm
  - sooty
    
    Yeah and President Klurke as well!
    
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    February 17, 2018 8:57pm
Jack5

Brian Gaynor, in his Saturday Hooerald column, has interesting views on Sir Ralph Norris, chairman of Fletcher Building. Norris, a New Zealander, was previously chief executive of the CBA Bank, of Australia, which bought ASB. Before that he was chief executive of ASB and then chief executive of Air NZ.

Who were the people who sold ASB to CBA? Gaynor notes:

“There was substantial public opposition to the 1989 sale of 75 per cent of the bank to CBA for $252 million. The remaining 25 per cent was sold to the CBA for $560m in 2000.

“The sale proceeds were used to fund the ASB Community Trust.

“ASB Bank was acquired for $812m, and has paid total dividends of $3.3 billion to its parent since the end of 2005 (now more than $6b).

Gaynor says the ASB Community Trust could have made far greater grants to the community if it had not sold ASB.

He notes that there was a rejected move to list the ASB on the NZ Stock Exchange. This would have left the community trust with a controlling stake.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11996036
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February 17, 2018 8:59pm
Jack5

Kimbo, with your knowledge of Christianity, especially Calvinism, may I suggest a short topic for you some time when you have itchy keyboard fingers?

The Presbyterians who settled Otago – were they a breakaway group of Presbyterians more Calvinist than the mainstream Scots Presbyterians?

If this topic is too deep for us plodders, or too dry, please ignore my suggestion.

It’s just something that crosses across my mind from time to time.

I thought the religious background might explain some of the characteristics of Southland – 30 or so years of Prohibition, then birthplace of the licensing trusts, which survive down there. Bible strong on one hand, and on the other home to NZ’s only notorious bush distilling.

All the best to you.
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February 17, 2018 9:38pm
- Kimbo
  
  Yes, in the 1820s there was a schism in the Church of Scotland. The issue was over who had the authority to appoint ministers. It was standard practice for the local laird to exercise his authority in the matter, but for strict Calvinists that presented a problem – Calvin’s reformation in Genva was predicated on a seperation between church and state. Each had its legitimate realm and they are to work together. However, while the church can exercise the role of a prophet and call the state to account, it is not the church’s job to run the temporal affairs of the nation. And Caesar has no authority to dictate how the church should be run, including the election and/or appointment of deacons, elders and ministers of the Word and Sacraments. Hence in Scotland, allowing temporal rulers to determine who filled the prophetic office of church minister meant a bunch of sycophants were encouraged and enabled, like say the church in France and Russia before the respective revolutions of 1789 and October 1917.
  
  Those who led the breakaway of what became the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland (known as the “wee Frees”) included Thomas Chalmers, for whom Port Chalmers is named. I think about a third of the ministers of the established Church of Scotland left/were ousted, so overnight they were without an official congregation and/or stipend, and all who followed them faced social and economic ostracism from those of the established Kirk. As a result there was a movement among the wee Frees to migrate and start again. Hence the development of transplanted Free Presbyterian communities in places like Nova Scotia in Canada, Tasmania and, in 1847 Otago. The first minister in Dunedin was Thomas Burns, the nephew of Robbie Burns. In contrast Waipu in Northland was not a Free Church settlement, but from the established Kirk.
  
  You are on to something with the moonshine tradition, because while the teetotal tradition was strong in 19th and early 20th Century Presbyterianism, Scots will always remain Scots. Also thwarting the pious intent of the original Otago and Southland settlers was the gold rush of the early 1860s which brought in all sorts or Irish Catholic, Australian, American and Chinese riff television ? That may be the original source of the Hokonui moonshine tradition.
  
  Nonetheless it is not by accident that Dunedin established the first botanical gardens and university- comes from the Calvinist belief that God is to be enjoyed and worshipped in his earthly creation, and his world deserves to be understood so we had better learn all we can if it. Also, Calvinism at its best creates a secular framework in which anyone of any faith who works within the Calvinist cultural framework can thrive and benefit the community. Hence the likes of the Jewish Hallenstein brothers, the Lebanese Catholic Farey and Lahood families, and the Chinese Sew Hoys are an integral part of the economic history of Dunedin and wider Otago and Southland regions.
  
  That’s my take, and exhausts my knowledge of the settlement and Calvinist character of my home town.
  
  Cheers,
  
  Kimbo
  
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  February 17, 2018 10:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Jack5

Kimbo may fill you in with more detail..
but I stumbled on the “Wee Frees” when I went back to my ancestral Island – Iona.

I stayed a few days in Oban before heading off to Mull & Iona, and as I was at a bit of a loose end one Sunday morning decided to drop into the local Church Sunday service.
,…It turned out to be the Oban Free High Church
(Thank God, I was wearing a skirt)…
Horrors, they Chanted Psalms and didn’t sing hymns. They were quite keen on mentioning sin.
Fortunately I wasn’t invited back to lunch/or whatever.

When I got over to Iona, I imagined my lot had worshipped in the famous Iona Abbey… but perhaps not:
There was a very utilitarian building (Thomas Telford design) which a cuzzie told me was the Iona Parish Church and where the rellies worshipped…..or perhaps not…

For there were Wee Frees on Iona. They didn’t have a Church, but met down on the beach for their service.

I have one of My Grandmother’s Bibles. It was donated to her from the Gaelic United Free Church, Greenock, following the death of her hubby in WW1.

I’m none the wiser about the details of my ancestors’ Presbyterianism. Perhaps some belonged to every version of it:
The Presbyterian denominations in Scotland today are the Church of Scotland, the Free Church of Scotland, the United Free Church of Scotland, the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing), the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland, the Associated Presbyterian Church (Associated Presbyterian Churches), and the Reformed Presbyterian Church of Scotland.
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February 17, 2018 10:25pm
- Kimbo
  
  Yep. Psalms only is an interpretation of the Westminster Confession’s (the historic Presbyterian statement of faith) “regulative principle”. As per the book of Deuteronomy, God seeks obedience before sacrifice, so we only worship him in the ways he has revealed, and with the Psalms he has inspired in holy Scripture. Hence the various branches of the Presbyterian Kirk that broke off at times in search of greater purity. Same thing happened with various denominations in Calvinist Reformed Holland and South Africa.
  
  Is the same principle that sees some strict Calvinists reject the observance of Christmas and Easter. Instead, we are to worship God on the holy sabbath he has appointed, the Lord’s Day on which he rose again from the dead, the first day of the week. And Calvinist architecture is often stark, rejecting the popish idolatry of stained glass windows. Instead, as per the Reformation’s preaching and teaching emphasis, we are to put our eyes in our ears and listen if we are to receive the grace of the living God. ?
  
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  February 17, 2018 10:41pm
Jack5

Thank you, Maggy and Kimbo.

Since I heard of the Wee Frees, and learned of the Scottish Presbyterian settlement of Otago, I’ve wondered what part arch-Puritanism played in moulding our Far South.

My impression of the social aspects of Presbyterianism in Southland and Otago was that there was a clear line: you were a drinker or a wowser. There was little middle ground, but the division didn’t hold across the generations. Wowser parents often had rampaging sons.

I don’t know how much of this was, or perhaps still is, the result of Presbyterianism. I used to blame the way ministers made us squirm by lecturing about sins and hell raising as though the perpetrators were some-one else while the whole bloody congregation knew it was us.

So we stayed away, and resented the Sunday quiet, the bells that jarred our hangovers, the smugness of pious folk, and the disappointment of parents.

Perhaps we were just the ones who couldn’t fit the Puritan mould. A tough religion, I think.
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February 17, 2018 11:14pm
- Kimbo
  
  Teetotalism isn’t a given in Calvinist spirituality, although official opposition to drunkenness is. Plus Puritanism gets a bad name. In the first instance it was about purifying the church of popish offices (especially bishops) and worship practices that came to a head with the Arminianism of Charles I’s Archbishop of Canterbury , the equally stubborn, unteachable and tin-eared William Laud.
  
  Also Calvinism is not other worldly or a spirituality that encourages an escape from material existence, so Puritan ministers would, for example, admonish their wedded congregation members to maintain healthy sexual relations. But not gambling, carousing or anything frivolous on the Lord’s holy sabbath.
  
  But it is the Arminian holiness tradition of the Wesleyan Methodists and Baptists, who supplanted the Cavininists in early 19th Century frontier America as the dominant spirituality that was the impetus there for total abstinence and the “noble experiment” that was Prohibition.
  
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  February 17, 2018 11:29pm
Andrei

Living proof Americans are fucking idiots

This of course is the FBI trying to distract from the fact they missed that kid who shot up the Florida high school despite being warned 39 times about him

But in any case that grotesque nation spends billions of dollars trying to screw Russian elections with things like the NED (which is a CIA front)

I’ll take American bloviating seriously when I see Sergei Lavrov handing out cookies at a BLM rally
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February 18, 2018 4:04pm

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