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December 3, 2017 9:44am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 3 December 2017

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General Debate

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Hugh Pavletich

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
New Housing Minister Phil Twyford 1 December 2017 speech to the Salvation Army

The new Housing Minister sets out how he plans to “build communities”, deal with homlessness, “build 100,000 affordable homes for first home buyers”, help renters, and sort out the tax incentives | interest.co.nz

https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/91200/new-housing-minister-sets-out-how-he-plans-build-communities-deal-homlessness-build

… extract …

… All this is supported by what I call our Urban Growth Agenda. It is a set of reforms designed to allow our cities to make room for growth, and bring down the high cost of urban land that is at the heart of these problems.

I know this is an ambitious agenda. But the scale of the crisis demands ambition.

I draw my inspiration from the First Labour Government who came to office after Depression and war determined to use the power of the state for good.

To intervene where necessary to make the system work for working people.

They redefined the role of Government. They made things happen by sheer force of will, and they built a lot of bloody houses.

The Sixth Labour Government’s housing reform agenda is also about nation building.

It recognises we have a crisis, and is bold and broad in response. It has the courage to tackle deeply entrenched problems that have been allowed to fester for too long.

It redefines the role of the state, and gets it back into the business of mass home building.

It will tame the out of control speculation that has been so destructive, and modernise rental laws.

In building 100,000 houses, re-inventing state housing, and building dozens of thriving modern communities around New Zealand, it will change the face of our towns and cities.

It will create the conditions for our people to thrive.

Once implemented it will amount to the biggest overhaul of housing policy since the time of the First Labour Government. … read more via hyperlink above …

The future of housing in New Zealand | Beehive.govt.nz

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/future-housing-new-zealand
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December 3, 2017 9:48am
- Sponge
  
  Fuck off Hugh you boring old bastard.
  
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  December 3, 2017 9:49am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    The above posted with extensive further material on these threads.
    
    Please excuse the hyperventilating Tories … who are still a bit raw about the September and October events …
    
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/12/general_debate_2_december_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-2091025 … and … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/12/weekend-reading-2-3-december-2017/#comment-3009643
    
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    December 3, 2017 9:55am
    - JibberJabber
      
      Maybe you need pics of titties to attract people to the barren uninhabited wasteland that is your blog?
      
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      December 3, 2017 10:05am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        What sort of people?
        
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        December 3, 2017 10:40am
      - JibberJabber
        
        Shane Jones?
        
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        December 3, 2017 11:32am
    - Swifty
      
      Dork.
      
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      December 3, 2017 10:23am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Moobs?
        
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        December 3, 2017 4:48pm
- Jack5
  
  100,000 houses will need another 100,000 imported tradies, who will need another 100,000 houses …
  
  We are in a population trap: we will have to bring in more people to provide housing and facilities for those here and that means more housing and facilities and then more people needed.
  
  Imports will surge, without contribution to exports, and the country has been in balance-of-payments for the best part of half a century, and GDP per capita has pretty much flatlined.
  
  The big chance would have been an oil strike off the coast, but the Greens have nixed that.
  
  Where are the idiots who said pushing the population to 10 million would solve NZ’s economic problems?
  
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  December 3, 2017 9:58am
  - Jack5
    
    Edit: I meant to type – “the country has been in balance-of-payments deficits for the best part of half a century”. Sorry!
    
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    December 3, 2017 10:11am
  - Digmen1
    
    Here I am.
    Pushing NZ’s population to 10 million good people will really help solve a lot of our economic problems.
    
    Like lack of scale for most of our businesses.
    A bigger market means you can have lower costs and more sales to pay the CEO’s wages.
    Better buying power
    Better freight rates
    Better use of plant and machinery.
    More job opportunities
    Twice as many people to pay one PM’s salary.
    Twice as many people to pay for one road from Auckland to Wellington.
    
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    December 3, 2017 10:36am
    - fernglas
      
      Twice as many people to drive old Mitsubishis slowly on the outside lane of the road from Auckland to Wellington.
      
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      December 3, 2017 11:03am
    - Viking2
      
      Nope it doesn’t.
      A competitive, productive market creates the conditions around earnings and profits.
      Scale allows that to be maximized.
      More people need more infrastructure.
      Competition doesn’t.
      
      Increasing GDP means nought whereas increasing income and wealth is what we should be all about and that means a competitive and productive society is needed.
      
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      December 3, 2017 11:46am
      - Jack5
        
        I agree, Viking2. That’s why we should focus on growth of GDP per capita, which measures wealth, rather than growth in pure GDP.
        
        Do we want to have the average living standard of India? It has the world’s 12th biggest GDP, but ranks 160th in the world in GDP per capita.
        
        If we’re to double the population, to stand still in average citizens’ wealth, we will need to at least double our exports? How?
        
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        December 3, 2017 10:27pm
  - G152
    
    Any-one noticed a sudden increase in houses being built and the work involved before such building occurs?
    Any-one ????
    
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    December 3, 2017 10:39am
    - Paulus
      
      Perhaps just a start but a Tauranga Builder has just gone into liquidation leaving over 30 houses unfinished.
      
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      December 3, 2017 1:24pm
  - Digmen1
    
    Yes, I am amazed and disappointed that we have been in a balance of payments deficit for 50 years.
    
    One of the problems is that too many of our businesses are overseas owned so they take profits out
    
    And that if they are overseas owned, NZ is treated like a branch office.
    
    We could all help by buying from Mitre 10 (not Bunnings) Pack n Save (not Countdown) and banking with one of the many NZ owned banks not one of the 4 Aussie owned banks
    
    And buying all of our petrol from Z.
    
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    December 3, 2017 10:40am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Definately buying from Z. I am a share holder.
      
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      December 3, 2017 11:17am
    - treadingthemill
      
      I agree with Digmen1. Good analysis.
      
      4 4
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      December 3, 2017 11:20am
    - KevOB
      
      Our rubbish is now being collected by a Chinese Govt owned company.
      
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      December 3, 2017 1:46pm
  - KevOB
    
    Infrastructure comes at a cost.
    
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    December 3, 2017 12:19pm
- Rodney Randall
  
  Inspirational speech by Twyford. The opposition to major housing reforms will be unwaivering from all sides of the house.
  
  The Salvation Army in Chch could house a few of the homeless in its relatively new multi million dollar citidel resplendent with full AV fit outs in the super large rooms that , every time I have driven past, are empty.
  
  What a fucking joke
  
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  December 3, 2017 9:59am
- backster
  
  1048 behind target so far for first year Hugh.
  
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  December 3, 2017 10:01am
CJames

See the Herald just can’t let it go. Still having a go at Todd Barclay
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11951474
When will we get the story that isn’t a sob piece on Meteria? Or is that reporter busy trying to find defences for GG?
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December 3, 2017 9:50am
tom hunter

I know most will not apprecate the following but I certainly did:
Minnesota Public Radio: Where all the men are lechers, all the women are victims, and all the children think NPR is unbiased news

For those who don’t know, America’s NPR is what RNZ would like to be one day.
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December 3, 2017 9:53am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  RNZ is far far more important than NPR.
  RNZ morning audience is at least as large as the flim flam served up Hosking
  
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  December 3, 2017 9:58am
  - Rodney Randall
    
    “Call Katrina Batton a Hoe”
    
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    December 3, 2017 10:02am
    - Jack5
      
      Do they let hoes on the air at Minnesota Public Radio, too?
      
      15 0
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      December 3, 2017 10:13am
    - Left Right and Centre
      
      She’s got the wrong accent to speak Maori eh.
      On the ‘kiwiness’ scale – she’s ‘posh’ or ‘well-spoken’.
      
      Like your 80 year old nanna giving gangster rap a go. Ya’ll bitches got ma riches, ya feelin me player ?
      
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      December 3, 2017 4:38pm
  - dime
    
    and yet it still needs funding?? play some fucking ads and get off the tit
    
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    December 3, 2017 10:03am
  - tom hunter
    
    CHOMP.
    
    And my implication was about credibility – not audience size. 🙂
    
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    December 3, 2017 10:04am
  - Jack5
    
    NPR is independent. Radio NZ is financed by the taxpayer, so Leftist snowflakes can have radio without advertising.
    
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    December 3, 2017 10:05am
  - flipper
    
    Data (independent) please craphead …
    
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    December 3, 2017 10:41am
  - VicParking
    
    RNZ, only understand about half what they say. Maybe because I and 85% of the population cant speak Moa-ri.
    
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    December 3, 2017 11:33am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      96-97% actually
      
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      December 3, 2017 8:39pm
- Jack5
  
  Does Minnesota Public Radio broadcast in Lakota and Ojibwa as well as in English, or does it, Radio NZ style, mix these with English into Minnesota Pidgin?
  
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  December 3, 2017 10:01am
Happychappy

Didn’t Labour and NZ First accuse National of being soft on crime in the Election, so why have we now got Andrew Little getting headlines in the press about justice and judges getting it wrong. I thought if you campaign for harsher penalties that mean’t crims going to jail not giving lighter sentences because we want to cut the numbers of our prison population. Just another example of the public being taken for idiots by the coalition from hell.
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December 3, 2017 9:58am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Its was the crimes of violence and robbery that had got out of control because the police have moved staffing away from investigations and harder crimes into ‘crime prevention’- usually 9-5 jobs dealing with paperwork and creating ‘initiatives’
  Same goes for road traffic policing, that budget – mostly from the Road funding- has had a big cut in the last 6 years or so. The result- Road toll has climbed significantly.
  
  Look at the Earthquake CTV collapse, that case didnt go to court, even after the local police and prosecutors recommended doing so, because the Crown Law was worried about potential costs ( meanwhile Kim Dot Com case has no shortage of public money to appeal every decision that goes his way)
  
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  December 3, 2017 10:04am
  - Jack5
    
    Hell, Ztev deserves an uptick for this one. Greg O’Connor must be putting some spine into Labour.
    
    Marriage guidance counsellors, minority hand-holders, and all sorts of bullshit social work hog police time.
    
    Put pistols on police hips and set the constables free to fight crime.
    
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    December 3, 2017 10:07am
    - waikatogirl
      
      I saw the other night a company (I think Kiwis) invented a security monitoring drone that is being adopted by overseas companies, including Panasonic who now have the rights to distribute. The drone lives in a “nest” on the property. When an alarm is activated by a security breach the drone takes off and flies over a set perimeter. Saves callouts, and delays in arriving for a drive by by a security company. The video feed is monitored and anyone found illegally on the property can immediately be reported for the police to attend.
      
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      December 3, 2017 12:41pm
      - starboard
        
        Would work ok during the day however at night you would need the offender to smile or flash the whites of his eyes…for obvious reason.?
        
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        December 3, 2017 3:12pm
  - KevOB
    
    What are you not an expert on: toilet training.
    
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    December 3, 2017 12:21pm
Digmen1

Put pistols on police hips and set the constables free to fight crime.

Yes that would also reduce the prison population and save much valuable court time.
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December 3, 2017 10:16am
Harkman

Shane (I originally typed “shame”) Jones suffers from schizophrenia. He doesn’t know if he is a Marxist or an anti-welfare right winger. He talks nonsense about “market failure” and a need for subsidies but then thinks Winston 1st has a mandate to speak for the regions and that he is “pro industry.” And he does all this while masquerading as a d-grade Lord Tennyson.
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December 3, 2017 10:19am
- Digmen1
  
  I kind of like Shane.
  He means well.
  Especially when he talks about getting his cousins off the dole and doing something rather than staying at home all day and or cruising round causing trouble.
  
  It should not be called work for the dole ie work 40 hours for the dole $220 or whatever.
  
  But work 40 hours at the minimum wage (doing something useful and constructive) or else get nothing!
  
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  December 3, 2017 10:45am
  - Viking2
    
    He also gave a serve to the kings of Iwi and told them to come up with the goods or not bother him while he got stuff done.
    The message was clear. They are not going to pander to the maori’s like National did.
    Bloody good thing that is.
    Winston of course has always had that as policy.
    
    Another key failure.
    
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    December 3, 2017 11:57am
- Paulus
  
  But Shane Jones has a Billion dollars a year to hand out to his Maori sycophants up North.
  
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  December 3, 2017 1:27pm
tom hunter

All right! One of my all time favourite songs and bands – edited to …. modern times. I thought the version done around Obama and the Mexican Gulf oil spill a few years ago was good, but this one using Trump? This is fucking brilliant: Once In A Lifetime.
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December 3, 2017 10:23am
- Swifty
  
  This one’s for Pavletich….
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JziE11E1zSY
  
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  December 3, 2017 10:37am
Huevon

Damien Grant in SST says we should admire Gloriz “gild the Lily” Gharharamenen” because she had a career (defending war criminals) before becoming an MP and at least that proves she can do something.

Kinda has a point.
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December 3, 2017 10:23am
- MrTips
  
  Damien Grant reckons…….
  
  I stop there. Grant’s ideas are almost always stupid and it appears he subscribes to the idea of utilitarianism ie. the end justify the means. This is a useful copout for most untrustworthy folk who lie about their skillz and motives.
  
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  December 3, 2017 10:34am
- Maxx
  
  But it’s the equivalent of having a job at a fish and chip shop and claiming you were helping to feed the poor.
  
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  December 3, 2017 1:12pm
flipper

After day of pre-ejaculation by some media, at last we have cool analysis of the over-hyped Mueller decision to charge Flynn.
Many folk still fail to recognise or understand that in the current media environment just about every issue can become” click bait”.
To remind: Greg Jarrett is also a registered JD (US = Barrister) with a current practising registration.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/02/gregg-jarrett-did-flynn-or-trump-transition-team-violate-logan-act-no.html

En passant, it would be good if we had someone like Greg Jarrett employed (not a part -time comment wanker academic) in our media. But the loony left wing producers and editors would probably side-line him !
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December 3, 2017 10:33am
waikatogirl

Shane Jones, Minister of Regional Development, and pro-industry said on Q+A he is “not going to tolerate those not working sitting on the couch on the taxpayer.” He is going to take “Work Ready” (work for the dole) to parliament to “force into work his near-do-well nephews doing nothing.” He doesn’t want to employ immigrants instead of our own and intends to invest vigorously in the regions.

So how is Shane going to ensure “his nephews” forced to get off the couch to work for their income from the taxpayer do not resort to sabotage, as happened under the previous work for the dole scheme ? Perhaps you need a wily old fox to catch a fox. ?
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December 3, 2017 10:45am
- Inandout
  
  It is the drug testing that buggers up Shane’s rellies who are couch potatoes. I have dealt with the loser class and they are hopeless, mostly in debt and live from day to day. Sorry Shane, even with the best of intentions, your plans are doomed to fail. It will take a whole new generation to sweep away the drug curse.
  
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  December 3, 2017 10:54am
  - Nukuleka
    
    A drug curse very sadly espoused and encouraged on this blog!
    
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    December 3, 2017 11:23am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    “a whole new generation” from druggie losers? Aaarrgghhh…
    
    4 1
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    December 3, 2017 1:06pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  I think he meant ‘ne’er-do-well’ ie old English way of saying ‘never’. Doesn’t sound like they are nearly doing well…
  
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  December 3, 2017 1:05pm
  - waikatogirl
    
    Thanks CL. I know the saying, but thanks for the spelling lesson. ?
    
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    December 3, 2017 1:31pm
Digmen1

@Waikato Girl.

Was the previous work for the dole scheme literally that ie work 40 hours just fro the dole or was it work 40 hours for the minimum wage?

And could you please enlighten us on this sabotage that you speak of. I cannot remember that far back.
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December 3, 2017 10:53am
- KevOB
  
  WINZ has never paid a minimum wage.
  
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  December 3, 2017 12:24pm
  - Steve (North Shore)
    
    And WINZ never should. It is not WINZ’s money, it is mine
    
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    December 3, 2017 3:59pm
- waikatogirl
  
  The PEP, Work for the dole scheme was abandoned for various reasons. Basically, the no-hopers did everything to sabotage the work opportunty they were given. The unions then complained that subsidised workers were taking jobs off the unemployed.
  
  An article:
  “The Labour Government elected in 1984 abolished the schemes because of escalating costs and “abuses”.
  
  A former director of the Jobs Research Trust who ran schemes in that period, Vivian Hutchinson, said workers were paid for a 40-hour week on the gardeners’ award, which was “just above” the minimum wage.
  
  Mr Hutchinson said some councils employed a majority of their parks department workers through PEP schemes, displacing permanent gardeners.
  
  He said it would be better for the Government to let contracts for councils to bid for work and social services that were needed, employing staff on normal wages.
  
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  December 3, 2017 12:56pm
  - KevOB
    
    A further problem with the PEP scheme was it cost the facilitators money. Supervision costs exceeded returns.
    
    Most schemes have already been tried. If they post their new brain waves here I’m sure we can remind them of what has been already tried and failed.
    
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    December 3, 2017 4:48pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Can anyone explain why this is a crisis?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/99472779/dancer-exodus-puts-spotlight-on-royal-new-zealand-ballet-boss

I’d be more than happy for taxpayer money to be diverted away from this venture.
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December 3, 2017 10:54am
- Manolo
  
  Non ti piace l’arte, cara Maggy? 😀
  
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  December 3, 2017 12:29pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Alas, it’s not in my DNA
    https://pics.me.me/normal-dna-italian-dna-17094798.png
    
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    December 3, 2017 3:50pm
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  $5.384 million per annum in crown funding and Frances Turner does not want to discuss it?
  Drain the swamp
  
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  December 3, 2017 4:06pm
tom hunter

Tax cuts?:

Kiwiblog 2014: So if the economy grows as projected, then tax cuts of around $1.5 billion a year will be possible by year 3. The PM confirmed they will be targeted at low to middle income earners
…
So what sort of tax cuts could you do in April 2017 with $1.5 billion?

– The bottom rate could drop from 10.5% to 6% on your first $14,000 of income
– The second bottom rate could drop from 17.5% to 14.5% on your income from $14,000 to $48,000.

Nah mate, these are tax cuts:

US Taxpayers earning $40,000 to $50,000 annually would see a 51 percent reduction. Similarly, those earning $75,000 to $100,000 would see a 17 percent aggregate reduction.

And of course it must be noted that all the fabulous National Party tax cuts were to come after 2017.
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December 3, 2017 11:01am
- KevOB
  
  The abatement in NZ is 70c/$1 on the gross. Add GST on the expenditure that means a clawback of over a dollar on dollar of excess.
  
  That is no encouragement to transition.
  
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  December 3, 2017 12:27pm
EAD_TWO

One of the best alt right writers in the current year on Richard Dawkins:

http://nwioqeqkdf.blogspot.com/2017/11/the-rationalized-insanity-of-richard.html?m=0
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December 3, 2017 11:08am
- treadingthemill
  
  Unlike Dawkins I’m not an atheist, but I agreed with his response to the guy criticising him.
  
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  December 3, 2017 11:17am
  - realityczech
    
    Trodden, and unlike Dawkins you are wrong.
    
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    December 3, 2017 6:50pm
DifferentPerspective

Vandalism by Microsoft

Anyone else found that there PC is almost non-functional after the latest updates? Visiting the Microsoft forums the help offered by MS is to work though “Windows 10 Performance and Install Integrity Checklist – Microsoft Community” to try to get ones computer performing as it was.

I mean honestly, is there any other product on the planet that operates like this?

Imagine if you took your Toyota in for a regular service and when you went to pick it up it:
– it took you over an hour to get the car started
– ran at 1/3 the speed it went when you dropped it off
And when you tried to get help to get it fixed the mechanic gave you a list of repairs to get your car going and you are told to fix it yourself?
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December 3, 2017 11:08am
- treadingthemill
  
  Iv’e stuck with Win7, and from what I have read I see no reason to upgrade. I’ll probably have no choice at some point in the future, but I’m going to hold out as long as I can.
  
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  December 3, 2017 11:15am
  - Inandout
    
    Me too, I dodged the Win 10 upgrade from Win 7, the latter being a system which runs faultlessly.
    
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    December 3, 2017 11:21am
    - nasska
      
      Why couldn’t they have stuck to XP. Stable & user friendly.
      
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      December 3, 2017 11:27am
      - Steve (North Shore)
        
        Money
        
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        December 3, 2017 4:12pm
      - Left Right and Centre
        
        Why couldn’t Winnie stick with the exPM – stable and user friendly.
        
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        December 3, 2017 6:22pm
    - Classic Liberal
      
      They don’t understand the principle of ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’. A good principle for governments, too.
      
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      December 3, 2017 1:11pm
- Harkman
  
  Thank goodness someone has mentioned this. I bought my previous laptop with Windows 7 and Windows 8 came on the market about a month later so I downloaded it for free. The laptop never worked as well after it. Then Dick Smith went under and I got a $1200 laptop for $489, it had Windows 8.1 on it then Windows 10 came out but this time I deliberately avoided the upgrade. But on November 4 the hard drive just died, so I sent it for repairs and it came back with Windows 10 on it. GOOD GOSH WINDOWS 10 IS TERRIBLE, IT IS NOT A PRODUCTIVE IMPROVEMENT JUST AVOID IT.
  
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  December 3, 2017 12:31pm
  - Paulus
    
    Following the Win 10 update my 8 year old machine kept cutting out – after going to the Doctor I was told that my system could not handle it.
    Cost me a new Christmas special yesterday as MS wanted.
    
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    December 3, 2017 1:31pm
    - Steve (North Shore)
      
      As I said to nasska, money – that’s what MS wanted
      
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      December 3, 2017 4:16pm
      - Left Right and Centre
        
        Everyone wants everyone else’s cash.
        Give me your cash. The cash – now.
        Cash. Cash. Cash.
        
        Did someone say cash ? That’s my cash now sucker.
        Where’s Cashel St ? Nah – I said where’s my cash ?
        
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        December 3, 2017 6:19pm
- KevOB
  
  There are other choices. Many smart phones use a linux version: Android.
  
  For desktop use PCLinux OS, Linux Mint, MX linux are easy to move too. There are many programs that are available in both Windows and Linux versions and they work the same or better. They do all the basics well and reliably without those Windows upgrades. There are extensive add-ons .
  
  The software is free and easy to install.
  
  Another feature is that they can extend the life of old computers as some versions can work with very low resources or slow computers. You can get the zing back or pass a refreshed computer on to the children.
  
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  December 3, 2017 12:46pm
Ross12

Every time you read something which you think must be the “bottom of the bucket” for lunacy along comes something to beat it

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/12/02/scottish-reverend-supporters-pray-prince-george-gay/
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December 3, 2017 11:24am
Nukuleka

Disappointingly, most KB posts about Donald Trump are of the sort found in NZ media, fuelled by The Washington Post/ NY Times/ Independent/ Guardian- the media wings of the Democratic Party. If people want a balanced website that presents in equal measure the pro and anti media views of Trump a good place to start is realclearpolitics.
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December 3, 2017 11:29am
- Classic Liberal
  
  And watch some of Styxhexenhammer’s analsyes. He’s a smart and perceptive young man who understands that really Trump is a ‘mild reformer’. Not an evil genius, not a stupid clown.
  
  I agree re most of the Trump posts here, disappointingly same as the MSM and the reason I gave up on FB, because my friends were all going anti-Trump crazed. It was blind and boring.
  
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  December 3, 2017 1:14pm
Digmen1

Quite a few Luddites on here.
Is anyone still using MSDOS? or 3.11?

Those of you still on old Windows versions are missing out on a few new features.

Should have upgraded when it was free!
(unless you have an old machine that cant’ handle it)
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December 3, 2017 11:45am
- nasska
  
  I don’t know about the others but when faced with the abortion that W10 is I jumped ship & bought an Apple Mac.
  
  If I’m going to be grossly inconvenienced by halfwits I reserve the right to select the vehicle they use.
  
  8 1
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  December 3, 2017 11:56am
- KevOB
  
  This is coming via Win 10 but I would like to work my way free of it. I don’t need Windows for gaming. Sometime MS upgrades are likely to fall over. I can run a virtual Win 7 machine in Linux if I ever get stuck.
  
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  December 3, 2017 12:57pm
- rangitoto
  
  fedora 27 here.
  
  1 1
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  December 3, 2017 1:46pm
  - KevOB
    
    Not for the amateurs.
    
    1 0
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    December 3, 2017 4:58pm
- KevOB
  
  DOS is still in use for service work. FreeDos is readily available.
  
  Win 3.11 was the first actual usable version of Windows. basic networking became possible. MS had distributed 3.1 as standard and released 3.11 simultaneously to it corporate customers. It wasn’t long before the dropped 3.1 completely.
  
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  December 3, 2017 4:56pm
Manolo

Here PM Ardern wants his genius minister Robertson to hike takes on the productive sectors of NZ society:
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/02/senate-approves-tax-bill-after-republicans-sprint-to-rework-it.html

With the 51-49 vote, the GOP leaps closer to its promise of dramatically remaking U.S. tax law under a Republican-led government. Republicans see changing the tax code as crucial to their electoral success after GOP opposition sank attempts to repeal the Affordable Care Act.
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December 3, 2017 12:22pm
wiseowl

Has it been easy to transition Nasska.I am thinking of doing the same.
No end of trouble with w10
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December 3, 2017 12:23pm
- nasska
  
  The basics haven’t been too bad wiseowl but I’ve found that things that were easy with W7, like files & photos, are a little challenging.
  
  With the help of a couple of “Dummies” books, Google & grandchildren I’m getting there. 🙂
  
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  December 3, 2017 12:49pm
  - KevOB
    
    Linux has great free software for photo’s editing and any multi media work. The free desktop publishing program Scribus is professional grade too.
    
    Linux just keeps getting better. With Windows I don’t know what is going on. I see more commercial apps being installed aimed to make me hopefully pay more. I don’t need or want to rent “software as a service”. I can’t trust Microsoft to not impose user charges in future.
    
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    December 3, 2017 1:02pm
    - nasska
      
      I played around with a download of Linux Mint a few years back but the system of commands & references to “kernels” did my head in.
      
      I may yet join the local Senior Net & try to get myself up to speed with both Linux & Apple systems.
      
      4 0
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      December 3, 2017 1:20pm
      - KevOB
        
        It has gotten easier. Recent Linux versions are”live” CD’s so you get a test drive and proof that it works on your PC. The install is normally one click, choose the location and accept defaults. Most people don’t need to be concerned about what’s under the bonnet.
        
        We have several Linux versions in use. My preferred one is PCLinux OS which is very easy to install. Mint is also in use and I have MX linux on my 10 year old laptop working like new. These three have proved best choice-I have tested many others. Not all versions install on older machines but one of these most likely will, particularly if you choose a “light weight” version. There is not much jargon to master and real geeks know 100x more than I do.
        
        Linux now has everything graphical which suffices. My wife has no idea about the details and uses PCLinux OS for all her work.
        
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        December 3, 2017 2:10pm
Digmen1

Anyone who has trouble with Windows 10 either hasn’t tried hard enough to learn it, or has an old or unusual machine.
Millions of users use it world wide with no problems. And that’s why all the upgrades to Windows 10 are only new features or cosmetic upgrades. NO major bug fixes have been needed.
They should probably try a computer help forum eg PC World Press F1
That’s also why Apple and Linux still have low shares of the market.
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December 3, 2017 12:29pm
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Are you in the IT business?
  
  I’m guessing so from your handle “Digi”
  
  If so you personify the issue. Great so there is an upgrade that works well for the 1% of those who are cognoscenti and is loathed by the masses of users.
  
  Lovely for a few nerds to be able to play with advanced feature-toys – for most of us we want our toasters, cars, TV and PCs to provide repeatable low grade functionality. Anything else is impracticable designer onanism.
  
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  December 3, 2017 3:04pm
  - KevOB
    
    I’m also sensing with Windows a takeover of user control and an expectation of extracting dollars that way.
    
    It is possible to fashion W10 to a more friendly form but that takes knowhow. Windows may undo your changes overnight. I don’t like my computer being messed with. Linux puts me in charge.
    
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    December 3, 2017 5:02pm
Manolo

Don’t socialist Labour and the Luddites oppose any work-for-the-dole initiative?
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/four-jobs-schemes-before-christmas-jones/ar-BBG3lLP?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=mailsignout

Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones is adamant he’ll push through a work-for-the-dole scheme.

He’s says he’ll announce four projects before Christmas aimed at getting people off the benefit.
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December 3, 2017 12:45pm
- Happychappy
  
  Manolo: And it will end up like our Railways years ago to many workers on the job sitting round smoking and drinking tea with no desire to work. Then they will have to have a union to make sure they are treated well all paid by the taxpayer to do nothing.
  
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  December 3, 2017 1:25pm
  - Harkman
    
    You should travel through Chch, one guy does a speed hump or fancy corner or simply fills a pot hole and 10 others sit and watch. They’re now putting cycling lanes everywhere.
    
    1 0
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    December 3, 2017 8:43pm
Paulus

I see that the Herald is showing Prince Harry and his Bride to be where they can honeymoon in New Zealand (at our Wedding Present expense, along with a blessed plastic Tiki too ).
Surely a weekend with the real Cinderella in Auckland, where the new real Princess lives,they can be told the error of their capitalist ways from our own Commie Chic and mate.
7 1
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December 3, 2017 1:38pm
RF

The commie chic has been licking her wounds after being smacked down by her master, Lord Winston.

Had an interesting conversation over several drinks with a Uni student. He is a third year in Dunedin and lived in mixed accomodation. He was pissed off that he has a large student loan and his brother starts uni next year and it’s free.

He let slip that in spite of being one of the so called youth vote, very few in the dorm actually voted Labour.

The general opinion in the dorm was that Ardern appeared flaky and might not last the distance. My companion who was doing a finance based degree is very concerned that Labour is going to quickly blow the surplus and by borrowing more will undo all the good.
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December 3, 2017 3:08pm
Johnboy

Oh de Wrightspeed bus he all gone wrong
Hoo ha hoo ha
De Wrightspeed bus not come along
On dis councils say

Gwine to wait all night
Gwine to wait all day
But de Wrightspeed bus not come along
De’ve been feeding de voters hay

Oh de councils both are run by a nong
Laidlaw Lester
Dey sold de wires for a fuckin song
Dat de council way

Gwine to wait all night
Gwine to wait all day
But de Wrightspeed bus not come along
Best dat we catch a dray

Oh de Greenies will put in light rail
Hoopla hoopla
Like all de’re plans it’ll be a fail
When de peoples purse run dry

Gwine to wait all night
Gwine to wait all day
But de Wrightspeed bus not come along
Diesel crap be here to stay
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December 3, 2017 3:23pm
- nasska
  
  Very good JB…..sit at the top of the class! 🙂
  
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  December 3, 2017 4:32pm
  - Johnboy
    
    I may as well. While the fuckwits of Wellytown keep voting in these useless labour fucks like Laidlaw and Lester I certainly won’t get to sit on a flash, non stinking bus! 🙂
    
    11 0
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    December 3, 2017 4:39pm
starboard

Where’s Arden ?
All of a sudden shes gone quiet.
In training with H1 and H2?
12 1
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December 3, 2017 4:18pm
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Laying down on a couch being programmed by trick cyclists H1 and H2.
  This week she will be gathering support from the sisterhood – watch and see. Then it will be back to poverdy
  
  10 0
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  December 3, 2017 4:50pm
Nostradamus

Council aims to curb use of plastic straws in Wellington restaurants

Some Wellington restaurants give out 800 plastic straws every week, according to new research, and many are winding up on the capital’s beaches.
…
American exchange student Katie Timzen has been working with Wellington City Council and Sustainable Coastlines to raise awareness of the issue among waterfront restaurateurs, with the aim of reducing usage. Timzen is one of 17 students who travelled to New Zealand with the HECUA programme, which aims to further environmental causes through internships. … “I have mostly been going to talk to managers on the waterfront to start a conversation about it,” she said.

So what’s this HECUA programme that encourages interns to “start a conversation” with restaurant managers? HECUA is Higher Education Consortium for Urban Affairs:

The program is offered in partnership with the EcoQuest Education Foundation/Te Rarangahau Taiao, which sponsors students’ New Zealand visa applications, hosts the program for a field experience, and provides evaluation and oversight.

The program is based in Wellington, with field study in areas around the North Island, including the Waikato and the Taupo regions, a Māori community on the flanks of Mt Ruapehu, Wellington, and the greater Auckland area.

In Wellington students intern for seven weeks in a local organization, becoming directly involved in efforts and debates around wildlife conservation, environmental advocacy, sustainability, transportation, water quality, youth development, cultural pluralism, and human rights.

Sounds like a ~~leftwing~~ progressive programme.

Topics & Themes: Environmental sustainability, conservation, Māori treaty rights, globalization and trade, history of colonization in New Zealand, green development, tourism and its impacts on local communities, environmental law, environmental planning, natural resource planning.

Oh – Maori treaty rights and colonisation – maybe Johnboy and Starboard could offer their services as guest lecturers to, you know, offer a balanced perspective?
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December 3, 2017 4:19pm
- Johnboy
  
  I’d be happy to demonstrate how second hand straws can be safely and hygienically washed and dried so the bro’s can use them for snorting if reqd. Nostra old chap! 🙂
  
  8 0
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  December 3, 2017 4:24pm
  - Steve (North Shore)
    
    need to cut them down to 8″
    
    3 0
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    December 3, 2017 6:24pm
- nasska
  
  ….”Environmental sustainability, conservation, Māori treaty rights, globalization and trade, history of colonization in New Zealand, green development, tourism and its impacts on local communities, environmental law, environmental planning, natural resource planning. “…..
  
  It’s scary! People whose worthless lives revolve around promoting this crap walk amongst us.
  
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  December 3, 2017 4:31pm
  - Johnboy
    
    Not all of us can aspire to drive a truck or run a factory/farm nasska old chap!
    Show some pity for the poor folk who have been forced into a life of boredom after going to Uni and becoming academics for Gods sake! 🙂
    
    9 0
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    December 3, 2017 4:35pm
  - Viking2
    
    Worse we make money to pay the pricks.
    
    6 0
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    December 3, 2017 7:15pm
- starboard
  
  Burn the treaty.
  That fixes that.
  Felching straws anybody?
  
  11 1
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  December 3, 2017 4:44pm
  - starboard
    
    “Ring Ring”..”that you starby?”..”mm here, put me down for 50 staws will ya..Ive got a busy week ahead down at gloryhole” …” sure thing mikey I’ll courier them to you tomorrow…hi to ya Mum”
    
    8 4
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    December 3, 2017 5:32pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Could you please put up a warning before you use vocabulary I am unfamiliar with?
    
    Crikey! between reading a definition for that F word and Nasska’s cephalopods, I seem to have been exposed to more depravity in one evening than I have encountered in the rest of my sheltered existence.
    
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    December 3, 2017 8:59pm
Ross12

The swamp in DC is getting worried so they have to try to “hide” the important people who can open the can of worms.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/12/02/chairman-nunes-vs-the-injustice-league-furious-nunes-threatens-contempt-amid-latest-fbi-media-shenanigans/#more-142908
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December 3, 2017 5:02pm
Viking2

starboard

Burn the treaty.
That fixes that.
Felching straws anybody?

Talking of STRAWS I SEE THAT WELLINGTON CITY COUNCIL IS PISSED OFF BECUASE RESTURANTS ETC GIVE OUT AROUND 800 STRTAWS A WEEK.
SOMEONE WITH A HIGH SALARY ANFD FUCK ALL TO DO HAS DECIDED WITH THE COUNCILS BLESSING TO BEGIN A WAR ON THE STRAW.
I KID YOU NOT.
(sorry about the shouting. Can’t be bothered changing it and well those socialist whinging arseholes just make it cranky anyway.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/99293514/council-aims-to-curb-use-of-plastic-straws-in-wellington-restaurants

Someone said we needed new jobs to replace the ones that are being lost. Ahhh no they are inventing useless jobs faster than Jacinda changers her mind.
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December 3, 2017 5:37pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Are 800 straws enough to build a straw man?
  
  6 0
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  December 3, 2017 5:55pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The Japanese can do miracles with just 1 plastic straw
    https://en.rocketnews24.com/2014/05/11/people-in-japan-are-going-crazy-for-straw-art/
    
    5 0
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    December 3, 2017 6:54pm
    - realityczech
      
      Wiggles, wow. The clever buggers !
      
      4 0
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      December 3, 2017 7:06pm
    - nasska
      
      Straws be buggered……see what they do with squid!
      
      ….”Tentacle rape or shokushu goukan (触手強姦) is found in some horror or hentai titles, with tentacled creatures (usually fictional monsters) having sexual intercourse with predominantly female characters. Tentacle erotica can be consensual, but frequently contains elements of rape.”…….
      
      I reckon our correspondent is a hentai refugee! 🙂
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tentacle_erotica
      
      4 0
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      December 3, 2017 7:06pm
      - realityczech
        
        Japanese porn has no explanation.
        
        3 0
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        December 3, 2017 7:08pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        and Morrissey called me a fantasist!
        
        What sort of mind could dream up such imagery?
        
        1 0
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        December 3, 2017 7:36pm
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        Well this thread has deteriorated quickly.
        
        This is the last straw!
        I can assure that there is more to Japan than just the kinky bits that you can find by trawling through the seedier regions of the Internet.
        
        In the spirit of Crocodile Dundee: “That’s not straw art. This is straw art.”
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMPx8MxLjhc
        
        6 0
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        December 3, 2017 8:50pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Hentai has an interesting cause -legislation about what could and could not be depicted. I believe its something like no nipples, no penises. But tenticles werent proscribed so…
        
        1 0
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        December 3, 2017 9:01pm
- nasska
  
  From V2’s link:
  
  …..”In order to help bars and restaurants make the transition to more sustainable alternatives, the council is planning to bulk purchase paper straws, and offer them for free trials to outlets.”…..
  
  Courtesy of those who pay rates. Then expect half a dozen “straw inspectors” with degrees in PR to guilt trip the bar owners & customers.
  
  Never mind Wellington ratepayers. By not voting or ranking candidates by ‘feelz’ you’ve enabled these parasites.
  
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  December 3, 2017 5:58pm
  - Digmen1
    
    Is that for real?
    
    Surely there are far more worse things to work on.
    Like traffic.
    And if you they are worried about too much plastic what about all the big thick containers that will never break down in 1,000 years. Or the blister packs for razors etc.
    Or the polystyrne that comes with each tv or fridge.
    Or any vestige of modern western life!
    
    3 0
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    December 3, 2017 8:00pm
Happychappy

How are NZ First going to persuade Labour to tell the Unions to get stuffed and get the wheels in motion to pass Shane Jones work for the dole scheme. Interesting times ahead.
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December 3, 2017 6:26pm
- Viking2
  
  Jones has had years of dealing with the slippery.
  
  At least he is not still talking about building 100,000 houses. like his Labour mate.
  He has to plant the trees for that 100 year program.
  
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  December 3, 2017 7:19pm
  - nasska
    
    What I want Jones to front up on is where he’s going to plant the trees. If you’re going to make a quid out of plantation pines there’s a few ground rules to consider.
    
    One is that if the terrain is so steep & inaccessible to require roading then the cost of that roading is equal to or fractionally less than the value of the crop.
    
    Another is that if the logs have to be carted more than 250km to a port then you’ll make a loss.
    
    The only available land is probably currently used for sheep & beef farming. At 2000 pines per hectare planting even half as billion pines will involve wiping out about 500 farms per year. (currently there are about 29000 such farms).
    
    There’s a possibility that they may include plantings of manuka cultivars on Maori land to boost the bee industry but this will involve clearing & spraying operations on a level we’ve never seen before.
    
    Everything so far has been sound bites & bullshit. Time for Shane baby to present a few proposals & some facts.
    
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    December 3, 2017 7:34pm
    - realityczech
      
      The smug urban dwelling wankers who vote Labour/Greens don’t care. Its about feelz.
      
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      December 3, 2017 7:58pm
    - Jack5
      
      Nasska notes of tree planting problems:
      
      Another is that if the logs have to be carted more than 250km to a port then you’ll make a loss.
      
      The Otago Daily Times has reported NZ’s most inland spot:
      
      It is 1km south of Castle Rock and 7km north of Leaning Rock on the Dunstan Range, on the property of Northburn Station owner Tim Pinckney.
      
      The position of the “unofficial most inland point” is … 119.44km from the Tasman Sea at Milford Sound and 119.44km from the Pacific Ocean, near Hampden.
      
      Of course you have to get to a port, but thanks to local bodies holding out and supporting regional ports, NZ has plenty, except on the South Island West Coast, which, north of Fiordland, is poorly off for harbours.
      
      I think work fare is better than the dole. I hope something somes of Jones’s ideas.
      
      The inland spot report:
      
      https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown-lakes/revealed-new-zealands-furthest-inland-point
      
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      December 3, 2017 10:01pm
- Digmen1
  
  Easy, I would say they are going to plant extra trees on government or marginal land.
  They will not be in a union. And they will be paid the minimum wage.
  And if they don’t turn up, in a fit condition, then there is no more dole for them.
  
  And I’d probably say they are going to be planted in the middle of the North Island and they will build their own huts to live in.
  
  If they don’t like it – fine – then get a job that they do like or then there is no more dole.
  
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  December 3, 2017 8:03pm
- Brito
  
  Also remember you only plant pine trees species in the dormant months (late Autumn through to end of winter). Restricted days because of weather and one hell of a lot of conditions which need to be met before a tree will successfully ‘take’.
  
  http://www.nzffa.org.nz/farm-forestry-model/resource-centre/information-leaflets/nzffa-guide-sheets-2007/nzffa-guide-sheet-no-1/#Planting
  
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  December 3, 2017 8:45pm
- Harkman
  
  Watch this space, I can’t see Jones going three years.
  
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  December 3, 2017 8:50pm
Manolo

A biased investigator:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/byron-york-nunes-blows-up-threatens-contempt-after-fbi-stonewalls-house-on-russia-investigator-demoted-for-anti-trump-bias/article/2642387
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December 3, 2017 7:35pm
- Harkman
  
  Yes they are hiding something and sooner or later the truth will come out. They based all investigations into the Trump campaign on the fake dossier.
  
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  December 3, 2017 8:53pm
realityczech

More lunacy from the communists. How many people actually go down to the sea to dump their plastic shopping bags ?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/98933638/how-plastic-bags-became-the-pariah-of-waste
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December 3, 2017 9:32pm
- Jack5
  
  ? They say plastic bags caused the floods in Bangladesh!
  
  Plastic bags must be as bad as GLOBAL WARMING and COAL and WHALE EATERS and PEOPLE WHO PISS IN RIVERS and DRIVERS WHO DON’T STOP AND BOW TO CYCLISTS and RAMPAGING RAPACIOUS WHITE MALES!
  
  Meanwhile, Jacinderella’s gonna legalise euthanasia.
  
  How are we going to switch off if we can’t get a plastic bag? What is the Melon Green solution: hemp bags you can’t breathe through? Marijuana so strong it whacks you dead, second puff (pity the poor nurses)? When?
  
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  December 3, 2017 9:52pm
  - realityczech
    
    The alternatives to plastic bags are less environmentally friendly.
    
    Anyway the takeaway message is that YT and all his evil works need to be eliminated.
    
    http://www.allaboutbags.ca/myths.html
    
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    December 3, 2017 10:00pm
    - Jack5
      
      A very good link, and, surprisingly, to Trudeau Land.
      
      2 0
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      December 3, 2017 10:05pm
      - realityczech
        
        According to the Greens we all head down the beach to dump our rubbish. Who do you know who does that ? By not targeting the real problem they will not improve pollution.
        
        2 0
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        December 3, 2017 10:15pm
Maggy Wassilieff

You jokers can host a screening of Straws
in your local community.
http://www.strawsfilm.com/
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December 3, 2017 10:08pm
- realityczech
  
  Straws are no laughing matter because CLIMATE CHANGE AND BABY DOLPHINS !!!!!
  
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  December 3, 2017 10:17pm
Digmen1

This anti plastic campaign sucks!
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December 4, 2017 6:36am
Digmen1

I’m going to stand outside my local supermaket and see how many New Zealanders bring their own bags now.

I am convinced that most of us still want the one trip plastic bags.

I note that New World did not release the results of their poll.

I’d like to see a proper poll done it.
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December 4, 2017 6:39am

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Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

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D-day for the government
No Right Turn
15 YEARS AGO: Now a more bigoted state
Not PC
BREAKING: Willie Jackson kicked out of Parliament for calling Seymour a Liar + Gerry Brownlee suspends proceedings
The Daily Blog
The smart way of learning about the Romans is to come to NZ and apply a Maori lens to your studies
Point of Order
A NEW DEGREE COURSE FOR MASSEY
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
Word of the day
Hompaddock
Greenpeace And The Green Party Would Never Tell You This About Penguins.
No Minister
This Government’s day of shame
The Standard
A Day of Reckoning
NZCPR
Trump’s victory: Golden age or fiscal reckoning?
Utopia
“Trans & Pregnant” – Biology trumps gender ideology
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Pretty (il)legal
Croaking Cassandra
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

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