General Debate 17 December 2017

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oob

Resign, Jacinda.
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December 17, 2017 2:42pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  And take the drunken dwarf with you.
  
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  December 17, 2017 2:46pm
  - oob
    
    When the coalition collapses, Peters is finished.
    
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    December 17, 2017 3:03pm
    - Keeping Stock
      
      Another view would be that when Peters collapses, the coalition is finished. Father Time is fast catching up with him.
      
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      December 17, 2017 3:05pm
      - G152
        
        Wont worry him he has the pension and the other bits and bobs he’s managed to ‘pick up’
        
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        December 17, 2017 4:20pm
      - peterwn
        
        G152 – Winston is OK. He is sufficiently wealthy that he can afford to sling about legal action over leaks about his superannuation ovepayments.
        
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        December 17, 2017 6:00pm
      - thedavincimode
        
        Hmm. According to waikatogirl, the old souse “collapsed” getting off his booze wagon in Paihia. Then he got to be deputy PM.
        
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        December 17, 2017 9:12pm
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      A man is never finished until he quits.
      
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      December 17, 2017 6:14pm
- Digmen1
  
  Wishful thinking.
  Why would she?
  She has just got into power.
  Added one million new voters and breeders to the Left.
  And go a nice big salary.
  
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  December 17, 2017 3:19pm
  - oob
    
    In the new year the call for Jacinda Ardern’s resignation will build to a crescendo and the Labour party will face a choice between electoral oblivion and her resignation.
    
    My prediction is she will resign before June 1st, 2018.
    
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    December 17, 2017 4:04pm
    - DifferentPerspective
      
      Unfortunately – you are dreaming
      
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      December 17, 2017 4:39pm
      - Adolf Fiinkensein
        
        Not at all! You’ll see it eventually in the now famous ‘secret’ coalition agreement. The juvenile resigns withing the first year and the old dog becomes PM.
        
        The ultimate bauble.
        
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        December 17, 2017 5:56pm
    - pdm
      
      ooob – you organise the `Jacinda resign’ marches.
      
      We will be along to back you up.
      
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      December 17, 2017 5:26pm
    - btb
      
      The coalition will be very hard to kill, they all need each other. Peters might actually die but he is a list MP so they all they need is just need a new leader. Its my opinion they will not be taken down by any trivial smears. The credibility of the right took a huge hit when they denied Chinese capital in Auckland and they failed to balance immigration with infrastructure, then they declared a surplus and tax cuts when Auckland and the roads into it are bursting at the seams. This combined with alienating possible centre coalition partners ensured their doom. The centre is NZF, the Nats will need to make meaningful compromise or face another term in opposition. Only a few percent make up the difference between being in government and being professional clowns.
      
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      December 17, 2017 7:49pm
      - oob
        
        The coalition will be very hard to kill..
        
        I give credence to the rumour that the secret agreement between NZF and Labour contains a resignation clause which would see Peters promoted to PM.
        
        As Adolph alludes above, this gives Peters an incentive to knife Ardern but as you rightly point out btb, in such a manner it leaves the Labour party otherwise unscathed.
        
        Peters is just the Machiavellian villain for a job like that I reckon and I’d guess he’s scheming about it as we speak.
        
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        December 17, 2017 9:09pm
- Paulus
  
  You will never see this – she will be carried out first – after all she is a Commie Chic and they never do the honorable thing.
  
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  December 17, 2017 3:32pm
Keeping Stock

What sort of time do you call this?

Still, better late than never, I suppose 😉
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December 17, 2017 2:43pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Keeping Stock:
  
  It’s DPF’s strategy to throw WoO off the scent! Imagine the poor bugger at 7.59am, hunched over his PC, and desperate to claim first comment of the day on Kiwiblog.
  
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  December 17, 2017 2:48pm
  - Keeping Stock
    
    True; and Hugh P will be sweating bullets, not being able to post 15 comments, each with 23 hyperlinks back to his own site that no one visits.
    
    I guess it’s the cyber-equivalent of pulling the wings off flies 😎
    
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    December 17, 2017 2:55pm
    - stigie
      
      Oh gawd, with this late start to GD for those two, not being able to post any of their shit would make them feel as if their throats have been cut !~
      
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      December 17, 2017 3:13pm
      - RalphT
        
        Worse than that they might think we down love them…
        
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        December 17, 2017 3:16pm
      - RalphT
        
        Dammit, don’t love them
        
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        December 17, 2017 3:21pm
    - tom hunter
      
      I guess it’s the cyber-equivalent of pulling the wings off flies
      
      It’s the cyber-equivalent of pulling something, no question.
      
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      December 17, 2017 5:42pm
      - Keeping Stock
        
        I meant DPF delaying the GD, frsutrating Hugh and WoO. However the posts of Hugh, WoO and more recently Morrissey definitely reflect a lot of pulling 😉
        
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        December 17, 2017 5:51pm
Manolo

On the US tax cuts:
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/15/gop-releases-its-final-tax-plan–heres-whats-in-it.html
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December 17, 2017 3:01pm
- Digmen1
  
  Yes, but where are the actual cuts for the middle class!
  
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  December 17, 2017 3:20pm
tom hunter

Heh. Now I can take a break from the sanding/painting treadmill. 🙂

Ok – so whenever I’m at a particular haunt I torture myself with RNZ National, which I never do anywhere else. Strange but true. So, got to listen to a replay of Kim Hill interviewing a Guardian journalist about his book on Trump and Russian-Collusion and I chuckled at how Kim seemed to have no idea about the latest revelations about Mueller’s team. But then I see why:

Searched WaPo site for ‘Strzok’ and ‘insurance policy.’ On WaPo, one hit; guest opinion piece by @AndrewCMcCarthy. On NYT, nothing.

Or as the US humourist, Iowahawk puts it:

Journalism is about covering important stories.

With a Pillow.

Until they stop moving.
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December 17, 2017 3:02pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Tom Hunter:
  
  Josh Beck, in an op-ed on Stuff Nation, makes it clear that he wants to control what you listen to on Kim Hill’s show: Keep racists off the radio and deny them the oxygen of publicity.
  
  On December 2, Radio New Zealand host Kim Hill featured former National Party leader Don Brash as a guest on her Saturday morning show. He was invited on after criticising Hill’s RNZ colleague Guyon Espiner for using extended Māori greetings during Morning Report.
  …
  We don’t have to give people like Brash a platform. If he wants to talk, or write, about his beliefs he can start a blog or a podcast. Any time that we allow him, or others like him, to spout their ignorance on the radio, on TV, or in newspapers, what we’re really doing is implying what they have to say is worthy of consideration and – spoiler alert – it’s not.
  …
  Stop giving these dinosaurs’ opinions room to breathe. We are indeed beyond it, and we hold the power to deprive them of the oxygen of publicity they need to survive. You wouldn’t have someone on air to debate whether the Earth is flat, so why invite someone to discuss whether 20 seconds of Māori on New Zealand’s national radio station is an affront to anyone except racists.
  
  I don’t know who this Josh Beck guy is but, sheesh, he’s clearly a graduate from Claire Curran’s “Control the Message” school!
  
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  December 17, 2017 3:08pm
  - tom hunter
    
    Thank you Nostradamus, that is a perfect lead into another story I found today which hold rich promise for RNZ and the things they may discover should they choose to interview racists, as uber-Leftie magazine The Nation just did.
    
    As funny as the article is, I enjoyed this commentary on it more:
    
    Writer Donna Minkowitz describes a secret meeting organized by alt-right figure Richard Spencer that she crashed in mid-November at an organic winery in Maryland. Upon arrival, Minkowitz writes that she was surprised to find that the discussion centered not only on the usual brown-shirt Jew-hating you might expect from neo-Nazis, but also on what she says is a “new emphasis on economic issues” that she found “seductive.”
    
    Oooooo – seductive without all the Jew hatred and other racism?
    
    Why seductive? Because the white supremacists’ views on economic issues sound a lot like, well, like views espoused by The Nation and Democratic party progressives. In what could pass for Bernie Sanders campaign literature, she quotes Spencer saying “I support national health care” and railing against “the trillions spent in insane wars.” Minkowitz also quotes Spencer blasting the GOP tax plan as “stupid . . . Reaganite nostalgia” and supporting a universal basic income. Another speaker decried that everything is seemingly becoming “corporatized and capitalized.”
    
    In what could pass for? That was Bernie Sanders campaign material! But it was the this crack that got me:
    
    Wait—is this a white supremacist conference or a New York Times editorial board meeting?
    
    Or Radio New Zealand’s! 🙂
    
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    December 17, 2017 3:32pm
    - realityczech
      
      Tom what is “alt-right “?
      
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      December 17, 2017 5:28pm
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    A lot of comments calling him out on his totalitarian thinking I noticed.
    
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    December 17, 2017 5:25pm
  - tom hunter
    
    And in more such news for the Josh Beck’s of the world this shocking news just in:
    Meryl Streep Admits She Reads Drudge, Watches Fox News
    
    Or as Instapundit put it: HIGH-RANKING INNER PARTY MEMBER CONFESSES TO BEING EXPOSED TO DOUBLEPLUS UNGOOD CRIMETHINK!
    
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    December 17, 2017 5:50pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  Hi Tom,
  
  I don’t get the significance of this insurance policy story. World Net Daily has an in-depth description of what it might mean:
  
  On Aug. 15, 2016, Strzok wrote: “I want to believe the path you threw out for consideration in [Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe’s] office that there’s no way he gets elected – but I’m afraid we can’t take that risk. It’s like an insurance policy in the unlikely event you die before you’re 40 …”
  
  It’s unclear what the “insurance policy” against Trump’s election might have involved. However, as WND recently reported, the FBI’s investigation into alleged Russian meddling in the presidential election began in late July 2016, just weeks before Strzok’s mysterious text.
  
  And only a month before the “insurance policy” comment, the anti-Trump dossier had been given to the FBI “near the start of July,” according to former British spy Christopher Steele.
  
  However, prior to July, Trump had said the occasional odd thing about Putin and Russia that had disturbed people like me. Most likely, he was causing ripples all over the place as well.
  
  I’m not surprised the MSM is not interested in this story. There’s so little of substance there. Just grasping at straws by the pro-Trump alt-media.
  
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  December 17, 2017 5:51pm
Morrissey

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“One does have to ask: SHOULD they get support to keep farming here?”
Country Life, RNZ National, Friday 15 December 2017

After years of revelations of the environmental damage caused by out of control farming, New Zealanders are now inflicted with millions of dollars worth of farming industry propaganda, designed to persuade us that farmers work harder than anyone else, get up earlier than anyone else, and that they actually care for the environment, in spite of evidence to the contrary. Television commercial breaks regularly feature Richie “Offside” McCaw’s Fonterra-paid elegies to early rising, and actual programs such as Country Calendar are often nothing more than P.R. exercises for Big (read “Dirty”) Dairying.

RNZ National’s Country Life program, which is now twenty years old, is well produced and always interesting. It plays on Friday evenings, and is repeated on Saturday mornings. It’s covered all kinds of farming operations and related activities, from beekeeping, to cheese-making, to the growth of farmers’ markets. It also gives more than a fair amount of space to dairy farmers.

On Friday’s edition of Country Life, Edgecumbe dairy farmers affected by the Rangitaiki River flooding in April talk about how they are coping. They are introduced sympathetically….

SUSAN MURRAY: G’day, g’day, good to have you with us for the Country Life hour. I’m Susan Murray in Hamilton, and Duncan Smith’s in Wellington.

DUNCAN SMITH: Hi there. Coming up in a moment we’ll hear which lucky areas had rain in the North Island, and in the South Island the rain that DID fall in Canterbury’s almost been too little too late, and most places are getting very CRISP.

SUSAN MURRAY: We’re joining a traveling nun in Australia, smelling the roses near Christchurch, and meeting some farmers who are still having a VERY TOUGH TIME following the Eastern Bay of Plenty FLOODS back in April. We hear quite a bit about the Edgecumbe TOWN people, but NOT much about the poor farmers. So that soon.

DUNCAN SMITH: Without further ado, let’s z-z-z-zip around the country. In Northland, it’s been HOT….

One of the Edgecumbe farmers complains about being “pinged with fines” for effluent breaches in the past. Then he praises farmers for their “resilience”. However, this is not allowed to become a totally one-sided public relations exercise: Susan Murray reminds him of just why his land was flooded….

FARMER: Yeah we just GRIND ON, and it doesn’t matter WHERE you’re living or WHERE you’re farming in New Zealand, ahhhhhmm, there’s positives and negatives to wherever. …. Yeah, and I think, ahhhhmmm, oh we’ve probably commented before, you’ve just got to break your issues down, ahhhhmmm, you know, don’t try and tackle the whole thing in one hit, break it down, and yeah it may have affected your life in a great way but, um, you know, there’s still a lot to be thankful for in New Zealand, um, you know. There’s lots of options out there, but, yeah, it’s a reason to get up in the morning I suppose, that’s farming, we all enjoy it.

SUSAN MURRAY: And you’ll keep doing it on a flood plain! [chuckle]

FARMER: Yeah, yeah. Have to.

COUNTRY LIFE: Ha ha ha ha ha!

FARMER: [grimly, awkwardly] Heh, heh, heh, heh!

A little later there is a stunning moment, when Farmer No. 1 has a brain fade and accidentally speaks the truth….

SUSAN MURRAY: And do you feel a little bit abandoned, that you’ve sort of had, I think someone said, B-all help?

FARMER No. 1: Yep. I, I, I think a lot of farmers, ahhh, were disappointed at how much, ah how LITTLE help we received. But, you know, we’re a resilient lot and we just, ah, roll up our sleeves and get stuck in, but ahhhm, you know, Edgecumbe, they’ve got a LOT of help, but the water went THROUGH the town and out on to the farms, and um, you know, we’ve, the farmers have had to deal with that and it’s sort of been in the background and has had very little coverage really.

FARMER No. 2: It’s all part of the joys and challenge of farming though! It’s—ha ha!—you know—-

FARMER No. 1: Well you’re battling Mother Nature a little bit here. I mean, it was all swamp that was drained. Mother Nature wants to take it back one day probably but we’ll keep fighting!

….Stunned silence…

SUSAN MURRAY: Hearing THAT, one does have to ask: SHOULD they get support to keep farming here?

FARMER No. 1: [scrambling] Ahhhhmmm, this is, you know, very productive dairy land. We must produce a LOT for the region, not to mention, you know, the NATIONAL economy, so um, as far as cost-benefit goes, I would say the government would be making a GOOD INVESTMENT putting money into the scheme….
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/countrylife

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CsMlBMEQJ0
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December 17, 2017 3:07pm
- nasska
  
  It becomes clearer why DPF delayed putting up GD. Giving an early platform to crap like Morrissey’s diatribe against the producers of the country’s wealth would curdle the milk in your breakfast coffee.
  
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  December 17, 2017 3:26pm
  - Morrissey
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I like your style, nasska. Perhaps you might consider applying for a position at Daisycutter Sports Inc. They’ve started hiring again….
    
    https://static.next-episode.net/tv-shows-images/huge/are-you-the-one.jpg
    
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    December 17, 2017 3:29pm
    - Liberty
      
      Isn’t offering employment by fictitious companies are bit dodgy?
      
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      December 17, 2017 3:52pm
      - Keeping Stock
        
        I thought Morrissey Breen had been banned from Daisycutter Sports
        
        https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/nz.general/IibP8D06NB4
        
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        December 17, 2017 5:27pm
      - Liberty
        
        ” I thought Morrissey Breen had been banned from Daisycutter Sports”
        KS
        Morrissey still has his little imaginary Friends.
        
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        December 17, 2017 11:58pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  FFS what a wanker.
  
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  December 17, 2017 3:27pm
  - Morrissey
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Come on, Cap’n—a simple plea to the boss to post it up earlier would be more effective than calling him names like that.
    
    http://www.lovethispic.com/uploaded_images/32609-Im-Just-Saying-You-Could-Do-Better.png
    
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    December 17, 2017 3:35pm
tom hunter

Naturally the day started with an interview of rep from 350.org (350ppm CO2) who was banging on about the need for massive divestment in fossil fuel companies and excitedly talking about the corporations who’ve “pledged” to do something.

At no stage of the interview did Wallace Chapman introduce the following, even as topics of debate:

– the USA reducing it’s CO2 emissions by 13%+ since 1990, as opposed to heros of the movement like Germany, who have increased and are burning more coal than ever before because nuclear is scary to the old East German leading the country.

– the reason being natural gas being made cheaper in the uSA than coal (because fracking) and how this might be an example of the perfect being the enemy of the good.

– The Oil Glut set to return and what the chances are of divestment success when several nations in the world can lift a trillion barrels of oil reserves for $10/bbl and have it as their main or only source of income.

Bonus laugh was Wallace’s question to this woman about she got involved with Mr McKibben and 350.org:

Well, I started as a University activist and ….

This is my shocked face. She invited anybody listening to join as they appreciate hearing many voices and opinions and ….

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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December 17, 2017 3:12pm
Morrissey

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Three supporters of filthy farming have just registered with us. What’s the bet that one of them was this bloke?…

https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/l/f/i/z/s/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620×349.1lfi0o.png/1504501119377.jpg
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December 17, 2017 3:13pm
Liberty

A Housing nz tenant with a Chinese sounding name has been told to remove her
garden.
This is typical of Labour with their abysmal treatment of Chinese immigrants.
Would labour prefer Housing NZ tenants vegetate on the couch.
and bludge of food banks.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/housing-nz-threaten-bring-down-pensioners-vegetable-garden-because-banned-stakes?auto=5682832345001
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December 17, 2017 3:14pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  FFS. Morons.
  
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  December 17, 2017 8:38pm
- Viking2
  
  I actually wondered how that person qualified to be in a HNZ house.
  
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  December 17, 2017 9:48pm
  - Liberty
    
    Would a dead car on the lawn with a couple of unregistered Pit Bulls.
    Make them more qualified.
    
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    December 18, 2017 11:33am
JIV

I grew up with England getting thrashed by a great ashes team out of Australia, every two years. With false hope there was always anticipation that this could be Englands year and surely the Aussies are in a rebuilding phase. Even though they got thrashed every time.
Then England produced the greatest ashes performance with a truly good bowling attack and better than average batting. Plenty of happy sleepless nights.
So the false hope was replaced with confidence. And now we’re back to having our hopes dashed and theyre rubbish again.
It must be nice to support a good team that always makes you happy…
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December 17, 2017 3:15pm
- MCos
  
  The Aussies are unstoppable at home, but as soon as they play India, Pakistan or even Sri Lanka away their team looks ordinary again.
  India is unbeatable at home. They don’t seem to play anywhere else!
  
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  December 17, 2017 3:27pm
  - Kimbo
    
    The Aussies don’t win in England either! It is like the three sets of conditions:
    
    hard tracks that favour fast bowlers (Australia and South Africa)
    
    greener wickets that favour seam and swing (England and New Zealand)
    
    dry tracks that favour spin (India, Pakistan/UAE, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and nowadays the West Indies)
    
    …means that teams seldom win away from home, and even less so if they play in conditions that don’t suit their bowling attack/are unfamiliar to their batsmen. Mitchell Johnson of Australia gained fame for his bowling in two Ashes series at home, but was a failure on the occasions he went to England. And both Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad of England, despite over 900 test wickets between them are non-entities in this series.
    
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    December 17, 2017 7:22pm
    - MCos
      
      Johnson was battered into retired by NZ a couple of years ago in Australia.
      
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      December 17, 2017 11:10pm
- pdm
  
  My first ashes was 1958 the arrival of Norman O’Neil.
  
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  December 17, 2017 5:31pm
  - Kimbo
    
    I think that was the series where Trevor Bailey batted something like about 10 hours for 50 in the first test! Don’t let ’em tell you cricket was more exciting back in the “good old days”! 😉
    
    With the likes of Tyson, Trueman, Statham, Laker, Lock, May, Cowdrey, Graveney, Bailey and Evans England went in as red hot favorites (and fair enough – on paper that is probably the finest England team ever fielded) but they gone done 4-0. Was the series when Richie Benaud emerged as a great captain, but some of the Aussie bowlers were chuckers. Mind you, so too was Tony Lock at that stage of his career..
    
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    December 17, 2017 7:09pm
MCos

Today on the front of the Herald is a reminder that the road toll this year in NZ is the worst for years, despite ever improving driving conditions & safer cars etc.
I have recently returned from a month in Thailand where hands are being wrung over their road toll that, per capita, is four times worse than here.
Some roads are plain dangerous with cars weaving left & right changing lanes at high speed without indicating.
But the main death toll is amongst motorcycle riders, particularly out in the country. Just about every family has had someone die in a motorbike accident.
Plenty of tourists hire motorbikes at resorts, dash around without a helmet & get wiped out by a drunk local in the middle of the night.
Official statistics are not kept of the number of foreigners to die in the Kingdom!
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December 17, 2017 3:20pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Re the increasing road toll, the graphs show that virtually all the increase is cyclists and pedestrians, and that all the increase is happening in Northland and Canterbury.
  So Julie-Ann’s solution is going to be to inconvenience everyone by screwing around with speed limits.
  
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  December 17, 2017 3:33pm
  - kevn
    
    Captn… Taking all the stoners off the roads up north would make a big difference.
    
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    December 17, 2017 4:02pm
    - GazzaW
      
      …..as would removing texting drivers and ‘wired for sound’ pedestrians, joggers and cyclists.
      
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      December 17, 2017 7:19pm
- Digmen1
  
  Do they have asian drivers there?
  
  But seriously I doubt if many kiwi drivers could drive in Bangkok, so much traffic.
  
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  December 17, 2017 4:02pm
  - GazzaW
    
    Having driven while working in Bali the biggest hazard I faced every morning was a local cop who regularly shook me down for a US$10 note for ‘speeding’. It happened at least twice a week. Just a cost of doing business in Indo.
    
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    December 17, 2017 7:25pm
Morrissey

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“Soon, even the notion that Israel is democratic for Jews will be gone.”
Gideon Levy at Mt Eden War Memorial Hall, Dominion Road
Sunday 3 December 2017, 3 p.m. (Part 2 of 2)

Questions from the floor.

Question No. 1: The international campaign for Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions against Israel: is it working?
GIDEON LEVY: Boycott is a legitimate strategy. Israel is forever pressing countries to boycott Iran and Hamas. People boycott butchers, and refuse to buy goods made in sweatshops. No one can claim that boycott is wrong. Many people won’t buy stolen goods—and anything made in the Occupied Territories is a stolen product. Boycott and sanction were very effective strategies against the South African apartheid state. The aggression towards BDS by the Jewish establishment convinces me that it’s the right tool. Psychologically, it’s having an increasing impact. There have been bills to criminalize BDS in the United States and Europe. This is unacceptable. It shows how weak the Israeli argument is if they have to prosecute people of conscience who want to boycott Israel. By the way, I am violating Israeli law right now—it’s going to be seven years’ jail for expressing support for BDS. We need to make Israel, and every Israeli, accountable.

Question No. 2: Are you tired and defeated in your attitude to the two-state solution?
GIDEON LEVY: You need to prove that the two-state solution is viable, and show how to evacuate the 700,000 settlers. Soon that number will be one million. Whenever I mention President Trump, people start to laugh—(LAUGHTER). Trump said, “I don’t mind whether it’s one state or two states.” I don’t think he knew what he was talking about.

Question No. 3: New Zealand is in the throes of privatization brought about by social engineering. The incarceration rate in New Zealand—-
(At this point the questioner was cut off, for allegedly being off topic. I think Gideon was going to answer him, but the organisers insisted on moving things along to the next question.)

Question No. 4: How can we learn from the Maori?
GIDEON LEVY: I visited South Africa three times, and tremendous things happened there. This inspires me: the one state solution can be implemented. If New Zealanders can live together, we can live together with the Palestinians. —(APPLAUSE)— There will still be struggles about rights, et cetera, but it can be done.

Question No. 5: Gideon, you’ve been called “the most hated man in Israel.” Do you suffer from Shin Bet surveillance, in the way that Donald Woods was spied on in South Africa?
GIDEON LEVY: It was the Independent that called me the most hated man in Israel. However, I am not the story. Yes, there have been some physical attacks. But we are still a liberal democracy for Jewish citizens. I was arrested once for entering the West Bank. My car was shot once, and we counted nine bullet marks. It was an armor-plated car, however. The Israeli regime is aiming now at NGOs and the Supreme Court. Their next target will be the media.

Question No. 6: What can you tell us about the Knesset bill to ban the police filing corruption charges against any government officials? …..

Read more….
http://morrisseybreen.blogspot.co.nz/2017/12/soon-even-notion-that-israel-is.html
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December 17, 2017 3:21pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  On and on this idiot goes.
  
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  December 17, 2017 3:33pm
  - Morrissey
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    He’s one of Israel’s most respected journalists, Cap’n. He’s been shot at and imprisoned for telling the truth, so I don’t think he’d mind your labeling him an idiot.
    
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    December 17, 2017 3:37pm
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      I bet he is not one of Israel’s most respected journalists. He is so far on the fringe that virtually no-one in Israel would give him the time of day. Instead he tours the world talking to left-wing audiences and stirring up hatred against Israel.
      
      The record of his presentation at the public meeting (fully set out on the Standard where I am now banned) completely shows his position. Everyone at the meeting would be more than happy to declare Israel an apartheid state. A large number of them would not even support the existence of Israel.
      
      I supported the NZ stance on the UN resolution about settlements, but he is miles beyond that resolution.
      
      Basically the great majority of the left have become so extreme about Israel, that everyone on the right knows that their default position has to be to support Israel.
      
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      December 17, 2017 4:20pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Wayne:
        
        the Standard where I am now banned
        
        I’m curious: who banned you and why? (You’d think The Standard bloggers would appreciate input from a former MP even if he’s not on “their side”.)
        
        Edit: found the comment. God Lprent is a tosspot!
        
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        December 17, 2017 5:56pm
      - Morrissey
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        “The settlements are a brutal violation of international law. Some will try to make your government’s brave leadership in this matter an international scandal. The United States did not veto the Resolution because Obama felt guilty after eight years of doing nothing. So don’t let your politicians do the wrong thing; you know more than they do.”
        —Gideon Levy, Mt Eden, 3 December 2017
        
        Most of the posters here I can make allowances for: they may not understand or not know much about the situation in the Occupied Territories, and have all their lives been bombarded in the media and even in the education system with messages about Israel and Palestine that are inaccurate, incomplete and misleading at best, and completely dishonest and cynical disinformation at worst. I am therefore not surprised that many people here, and indeed at the Standard, side automatically with Israel.
        
        I have, however, been pleasantly surprised to see that even some of the most seemingly hard-nosed and truculent commentators here do in fact show a willingness to consider contrary views by scholars and are prepared to modify some of their extreme views when confronted with evidence. One prominent Kiwiblogger told me last week that “just to be fair”, he had read a Noam Chomsky article I posted about the Israel-Palestine conflict. He took issue with some of it, and said so plainly. That’s fine, and it shows a considerable degree of seriousness and respect.
        
        Wayne Mapp, on the other hand, is a former government minister, and one would assume that he displayed at least a modicum of seriousness and rigour in his views. Yet here he is denouncing an Israeli journalist, who is without doubt one of Israel’s and indeed the world’s bravest and most renowned men, and claiming that he “stirs up hatred against Israel.”
        
        Anyone who was at Gideon Levy’s talk, and anyone who has read or listened to him at all, would know immediately that Dr. Mapp’s words are asinine, fraudulent, and not worth a Zimbabwean million dollar note.
        
        One thing about former politicians is that they often ditch the carapace of partisanship they have borne for decades. People like Jenny Shipley, Jim Bolger, Helen Clark, Mike Moore, even Rodney Hide and Heather Roy have notably become kinder and more reasonable people since leaving parliament. They are even prepared to acknowledge that some of the things they did when in power were detrimental to the public good.
        
        It seems, however, that Dr. Mapp has eschewed the role of respected elder statesman and instead decided to enter that grim twilight world inhabited by the likes of another old grotesque, his former boss Dr. Don Brash. His lies about this Israeli truth-teller are par for the course, unfortunately….
        
        https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-11022017/#comment-1298324
        
        https://thestandard.org.nz/im-arab-and-many-of-us-are-glad-that-trump-won/#comment-1260849
        
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        December 17, 2017 6:42pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Morrissey:
        
        anyone who has read or listened to him at all, would know immediately that Dr. Mapp’s words are asinine, fraudulent, and not worth a Zimbabwean million dollar note
        
        There’s a fine line between disagreeing with someone and implying that they have improper motives.
        
        I could be persuaded that “asinine” and “not worth a Zimbabwean million dollar note” fall into the agree-to-disagree category. But “fraudulent” is inappropriate, Morrissey, particularly when you apply that description to someone who has a public profile and comments under his real name.
        
        Come on – surely you’re better than that!
        
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        December 17, 2017 7:03pm
      - Morrissey
        
        Nostradamus, I’m sorry to say that Dr. Mapp’s statements about Gideon Levy are false. They are not merely false statements in the sense of being mistaken, they are maliciously false statements.
        
        That he is a former Minister of the Crown only makes those malicious false statements more reprehensible.
        
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        December 17, 2017 7:11pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Ok Morrissey. Could you please assist me by analysing Wayne’s comment above and (by reference to his specific words) indicate which statements you disagree with; then (by reference to reputable online sources) indicate why you think those statements are “maliciously false”? And is there anything that Wayne’s said that you agree with? I’m interested to see what you’ve got.
        
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        December 17, 2017 7:29pm
      - alwyn
        
        What I find rather funny, and I hope you see it the same way is that you have been banned for something you never did.
        You have been subjected to a long rant by Lynn about having attributed comments to “The Standard” as in a computer. You don’t seem to have done it. You only talked about opinions that were posted on the blog.
        Clearly Mr Prentice didn’t read what you said. He simply needed to have a rant and to hell with whether it was accurate or not.
        I, as someone who is fairly regularly banned on the same blog, thought he had improved. He seemed quite happy to abuse me but he restrained himself from actually banning me. The one who really did go nuts was someone who posts as Weka. She would get her knickers in a knot if I said anything about her beloved Green Party. YOU’RE BANNED was the normal reaction.
        Anyway, if you are really a sucker for punishment your ban there should be up in about 10 days.
        Please go back. There needs to be a few rational comments on that site.
        
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        December 17, 2017 8:39pm
      - tom hunter
        
        Come on [Morrissey]– surely you’re better than that! – [Keeping Stock]
        
        He’s really not.
        
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        December 17, 2017 9:12pm
  - stigie
    
    Cringeworthy !~
    
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    December 17, 2017 3:37pm
    - Morrissey
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      How so, stigie?
      
      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/84/f3/d7/84f3d75f084cb704bac0c63fdb7809fe.gif
      
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      December 17, 2017 3:39pm
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Morrissey Breen.
        Just Fuck Off.
        The googling of your name tells the world all we need to know about you, .
        
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        December 17, 2017 8:31pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Morrissey
        I read the full post on The Standard about Gideon Levy’s presentation. He specifically said Israel is an apartheid state. Therefore I am not wrong in what I said about him.
        You seem offended by the fact that people defend Israel and dare to criticise anyone who has a contrary view. It is hardly unusual to suggest Mr Levy is a controversial figure in Israel.
        And as for my overall balance go and read my Spinoff articles
        
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        December 18, 2017 10:00am
backster

Hey Tzev or Morrissey yu might consider removing Don from your list of Gropers after the revelation (with corroborating documents and admission that the accusers were solicited with enormous cash payments and offers to front on TV with their accusations, http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/365068-exclusive-prominent-lawyer-sought-donor-cash-for-two-trump-accusers ,,Mind you two new democrats a man and woman could be added.
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December 17, 2017 3:50pm
- Morrissey
  
  You’re joking, right? That, or you’re a Mapp-level fantasist….
  
  https://www.democracynow.org/2017/12/14/jessica_leeds_describes_being_groped_by
  
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  December 17, 2017 7:07pm
lifesgood

Well, Well. well. the Sunday Star Times has sunk to a new low with a 4 page spread on Jacinda’s fashion sense (what? you say) Yep, believe it or not someone thinks she’s a style icon. It is vomitous to say the least. I’d be just happy if she knew how to run a country.
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December 17, 2017 3:51pm
- kevn
  
  life…. Strange time for JA to learn how to run NZ. peters did anoint her I guess, wasn’t by her choice was it? Especially difficult being the Triad of losers and liars. Bit of a handicap right there.
  
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  December 17, 2017 3:58pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  How did you find this out lifesgood?
  If you’d made the same decision as I did there wouldn’t have been a copy of this leftist rag in your house for at least the last two years.
  
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  December 17, 2017 3:59pm
  - lifesgood
    
    LOL! Whiling away time in a cafe!
    
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    December 17, 2017 4:25pm
- Digmen1
  
  Next it’ll be Fashion Quarterly, or Vogue!
  
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  December 17, 2017 4:03pm
- mara
  
  Gay Lord has his hands full. He must notice that his latest squeeze is shrinking in size and has increasing mental health anxiety issues. If I were the PM’s mother I would be very worried about her health. Will she be sacrificed on the altar of progressive ideology?
  
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  December 17, 2017 7:11pm
  - sam green
    
    No she doesn’t have increasing mental health issues. Stop the slurs.
    
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    December 17, 2017 7:40pm
    - alwyn
      
      True. She has exactly the same mental problems as she had at this time last year. They are not increasing.
      
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      December 17, 2017 8:42pm
    - mara
      
      Sam she is 37 years old and has the thinking of a 20 year old groupie on a bloody Campus. That worries me. She told us that she has emotional issues. Look at the Magazines where she says that she should never be the PM.
      
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      December 17, 2017 8:57pm
Harkman

Cindy’s dad is also milking the taxpayer. We’re turning into a 3rd world basket-case already.
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December 17, 2017 3:53pm
- kevn
  
  Hark… Boom, surplus gone already.
  piss off z
  
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  December 17, 2017 3:59pm
- pdm
  
  Bit tough on Taxcinda’s dad Harkman. Everything I read about him suggests he is a good bugger and worthy of his new position.
  
  Now Taxcinda’s worthiness is a different question.
  
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  December 17, 2017 5:34pm
  - oob
    
    In Germany Scientologists are prohibited from joining the civil service or working in sensitive industries.
    
    Because Scientology is an abusive cult.
    
    The Mormon Cherch* is also an abusive cult. A bloke who wears magic Mormon underwear is entirely unsuitable to represent New Zealand in any capacity, in my opinion.
    
    (*) not a spelling mistake.
    
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    December 17, 2017 6:10pm
    - peterwn
      
      So Pakistan is offering to release some prisoners if they take up the Islamic faith.
      If Andy and Kelvin wish to reduce the NZ prisoner population, they could release them if they agree to become Mormons – anything is worth a try.
      
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      December 17, 2017 6:13pm
    - GazzaW
      
      That might be true oob but how often do you see a Mormon in trouble with the law, abusing their kids, pissed or acting in an antisocial manner? Likewise their kids – do you see them in gangs, taking drugs or featuring in the teenage pregnancy stats?
      
      How and why do you find them abusive?
      
      Live and let live mate, they have never done me any harm. Quite the contrary in fact. I’ve had bloody good Mormon workmates and team mates.
      
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      December 17, 2017 6:50pm
      - Morrissey
        
        how often do you see a Mormon in trouble with the law, abusing their kids, pissed or acting in an antisocial manner?
        
        You are either joking or you have a Mappian commitment to the truth….
        
        Called “the darkest deed of the nineteenth century,” the brutal 1857 murder of 120 men, women, and children at a place in southern Utah called Mountain Meadows remains one of the most controversial events in the history of the American West. Although only one man, John D. Lee, ever faced prosecution (for what ranks as one of the largest mass killings of civilians in United States history), many other Mormons ordered, planned, or participated in the massacre of Arkansas emigrants as they headed through southwestern Utah on their way to California. Special controversy surrounds the role in the 1857 events of one man, Brigham Young , the fiery prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who led his embattled people to the “promised land” in the valley of the Great Salt Lake. What exactly Brigham Young knew, and when he knew it, are questions that historians still debate.
        http://www.famous-trials.com/mountainmeadows
        
        Likewise their kids – do you see them in gangs, taking drugs or featuring in the teenage pregnancy stats?
        
        Oh really?
        
        http://www.good4utah.com/good4utah/police-claim-violent-utah-tongan-crip-gang-professed-to-be-men-of-faith/209137055
        
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        December 17, 2017 7:04pm
      - oob
        
        You’re right GazzaW, they’re generally law-abiding from an external perspective.
        
        How the Mormon Cherch treats its own members is the issue. Alongside the criminal aspects -the polygamy, incest, pedophilia &c.- are the typical mind-control aspects of a cult such as indoctrination, institutionalised racism, the awful practice of shunning and so on.
        
        There are a bunch of resources concerning this stuff on the web, here’s a fairly informative interview of the prominent Mormon apostate Jonathan Streeter conducted by the prominent Scientology apostate Chis Shelton to get you started if you’re interested.
        
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        December 17, 2017 7:09pm
      - oob
        
        I’ve had bloody good Mormon workmates and team mates.
        
        I should also add GazzaW that if your mates ever fall afoul of the Mormon Cherch, help them out mate. They’ll be in a difficult spot.
        
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        December 17, 2017 7:18pm
      - GazzaW
        
        …..and these extremes happen in the NZ Mormon community? Give me some links. I’m not doubting you but it would be good to see some evidence of polygamy, incest and paedophilia that can be sheeted back directly to the policies of the Mormons in NZ.
        
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        December 17, 2017 9:26pm
- Manolo
  
  Isn’t NEPOTISM great?
  
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  December 17, 2017 6:52pm
- GazzaW
  
  How so Harkman?
  
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  December 17, 2017 6:59pm
calendar girl

pdm @5.34 pm: “…. and worthy of his new position”.

If so, why did he have to wait until his daughter became Prime Minister? It’s worrying that the appointment has a distinct odour of reverse nepotism.
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December 17, 2017 5:56pm
- alwyn
  
  Rubbish. He has been very good at his job and will almost be very good at his new one.
  
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  December 17, 2017 8:45pm
- KevOB
  
  He’s been Admin of Niue. Perhaps he’s gone troppo. That condition of complete acclimatisation is not uncommon among expats. Tokelau is not a posting to be taken up otherwise. People slow down, adopt island time and may even seem lazy to outsiders. They are adapted.
  
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  December 17, 2017 10:18pm
flipper

Lordy it is quiet…… and peaceful.
Just the Morris Dancer around at the moment and he is harmless.
So standing at the pool edge, keeping cool, and writing this is no hard task. Keeping the computer water free is the hardest part.

So far the reading of the GD this afternoon has been quite entertaining. The absence of some standard germs has improved the standard of discourse.
It is really not worth getting irritated by the Morris dancer’s rubbish. Similarly I am able to ignore the few uneducated KB commenters, who spout their Standard/Fraser House talking points, thereby confirming their stupidity. They have not yet worked out how much Poofie Robertson and his rainbow cloven have pissed off working New Zealanders earning $60,000 or less, and all the Superans who would rather have the April tax reduction and a higher super base. They certainly prefer that to all the smoke and mirrors now pushed by the Peters-Ardern Regime.

So, put this aside and back into the lap lane.
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December 17, 2017 6:05pm
- Morrissey
  
  Sorry, flipper, but could you specify how exactly what I wrote about Gideon Levy was “rubbish”?
  
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  December 17, 2017 6:54pm
Adolf Fiinkensein

Not at all! You’ll see it eventually in the now famous ‘secret’ coalition agreement. The juvenile resigns withing the first year and the old dog becomes PM.

The ultimate bauble.
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December 17, 2017 6:09pm
- Adolf Fiinkensein
  
  Ooops. That comment was meant to follow Oob’s
  
  “My prediction is she will resign before June 1st, 2018.”
  
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  December 17, 2017 8:39pm
peterwn

G152 – Winston is OK. He is sufficiently wealthy that he can afford to sling about legal action over leaks about his superannuation ovepayments.
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December 17, 2017 6:10pm
nasska

History 101:

For those that don’t know much about history here is a condensed version:

Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer & would go to the coast to live on fish & other seafood in the winter.

The two most important events in all of history were the invention of beer & the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer. These were the foundations of modern civilization & together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups:

1. Socialists (the Left)
2. National Party supporters (the Right).

Once beer was discovered, it required grain & that was the beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminium cans were discovered yet, so while our early humans were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery. That’s how villages were formed.

Some men spent their days tracking & killing animals to BBQ at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as the Right.

Other men who were weaker & less skilled at hunting learned to live off the Right by showing up for the nightly BBQs to do the sewing, fetching & hair dressing. This was the beginning of the Left.

Some of these socialist men eventually evolved into women. Those became known as girlie-men. Some of their noteworthy achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of nasal inhalation therapy, group hugs & the concept of social welfare to decide how to divide the meat & beer that the Right provided.

Modern socialists like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi, tofu & French food are standard Lefty fare. All vegans are of the Left. Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers, lawyers, politicians, bureaucrats, journalists, actors & group therapists are socialists. Usually to be found kissing women’s feet while begging for a charity fuck.

National supporters drink domestic beer. They eat red meat & still provide for their women. Supporters of the Right are big game hunters, farmers, forestry employees, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, engineers, corporate executives, athletes, members of the military, airline pilots & generally anyone who works productively. Many own companies & employ those who want to work for a living.

Socialists produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers & decide what to do with the production. They crept in after the hard work of developing NZ & created a business of trying to get more for nothing.

Here ends today’s lesson of our history.
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December 17, 2017 6:17pm
Rodney Randall

What is with the agressive Glimp Internet popups on this site that bypass blockers?
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December 17, 2017 6:45pm
- Rodney Randall
  
  Have switched blockers for now.
  
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  December 17, 2017 7:28pm
- JibberJabber
  
  These thick cunts don`t appear to understand that aggressive advertising is counter-productive ( at least for grumpy ol` pricks like me).
  I`ll just file their company name and never buy any of their worthless products ever.
  
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  December 17, 2017 8:30pm
waikatogirl

TV1 news item tonight:
TV1 News, Te Karere and some other Maori news outlet are being set to combine. The item was not clear on how this would affect news provided to the public but assume Maori language or subtitles will be included? The story left us none the wiser on what to expect but I’m guessing it will not encourage viewing by many of those currently watching TV1 News unless they are interested in a language lesson while finding out what has been happening in the world?

According to John Tamahere “it is time.”
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December 17, 2017 7:28pm
- Jack5
  
  This follows the Maorification of Radio NZ from its deal with the 21-station tribal-radio network, Te Whakaruruhau O Nga Reo Irirangi Maori.
  
  Radio NZ reported at the time:
  
  The 21 Maori radio stations that make up Te Whakaruruhau will get access to RNZ’s programming and journalism, as well as working with the RNZ news team to cover Maori stories in a more collaborative way.
  
  The iwi stations will also work with RNZ to help transform from radio broadcasters into multimedia content creators.
  
  Willie Jackson, now Labour Associate Minister for Maori Development, as chairman of the taxpayer-supported Maori tribal network, signed the deal with the chief executive of Radio NZ, Paul Thompson.
  
  It seems that, not happy with separate race-based news organisations, Maori have a maxim: “What’s mine is mine, and what’s yours is half mine”.
  
  https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/312240/rnz-signs-partnership-with-te-whakaruruhau
  
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  December 17, 2017 7:39pm
  - waikatogirl
    
    Thanks Jack5, that was about the size of it!
    ?
    
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    December 17, 2017 8:08pm
  - big bruv
    
    Dont we just have new, why the hell do we need Maori Stories?
    
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    December 18, 2017 6:28am
Maggy Wassilieff

Over the last couple of weeks that I have been aware of Morrissey’s existence I have observed that he likes to call people liars.

He accused me and notsofast of lying about having read some Chomsky.
He accused David Garrett about lying about some Debate to which Kim Workman invited masked gang members.
He accused someone a couple of days ago of lying when they said they could speak/understand a couple of languages..

and now he accuses Wayne Mapp of being a liar.

Is this some Leftie technique to try and smear every commenter here on KB?…. or has Morrissey spent his life with dissemblers and can’t fathom that not everybody lies.
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December 17, 2017 8:26pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Maggy,
  Morrissey Breen has a history, and it’s not a pretty one.
  Google him.
  
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  December 17, 2017 9:23pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’ll accept your word.
    
    No need to disturb a lovely evening.
    
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    December 17, 2017 9:27pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Apologies folks,
  
  I believe it was treading the mill and not notsofast that was the subject of Morrissey’s reckless assertion of their never having read Chomsky.
  
  (Bad recall of these fused-word nom-de-plumes)
  
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  December 18, 2017 8:44am
Jack5

Slavery in Australia…

How many slaves are there in NZ?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-11/slave-held-eight-years-melbourne-home-captors-went-holiday-court/9245974
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December 17, 2017 8:58pm
- realityczech
  
  Many slaves here Jacksie. They are owned by Jews so it is hate speech to mention it.
  
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  December 17, 2017 9:07pm
  - Jack5
    
    Kearealityczech –
    
    Ah! The riddle of why you dislike Jews so much.
    
    You’re an escaped slave!
    
    Did they brand you or just give you the snick?
    
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    December 17, 2017 9:40pm
    - Jack5
      
      I hear, Kearealityczech, that you have tattooed in a private place: ” Give me back my foreskin!”
      
      And on your arm:
      “Bicep power built on bacon”
      
      And on the cheek of your arse:
      
      “No more Jewish parrot jokes”
      
      The rumour is that at least five tattoo parlours have talked you out of getting the words on your face: “My nose is NOT Jewish”
      
      You are a well known stirrer, who looks extremely, well, Israeli.
      
      Stop denying your heritage, please!
      
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      December 17, 2017 9:47pm
sooty

Was Gerald Pope, New Zealands
worst policeman.
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December 17, 2017 9:50pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Bit of a race with those involved in framing Arthur A Thomas for that spot I think
  
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  December 17, 2017 10:41pm
  - RF
    
    Sorry folks but Thomas was guilty.
    
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    December 18, 2017 6:24pm
    - realityczech
      
      Why RF ?
      
      I thought that one was pretty settled …
      
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      December 18, 2017 6:28pm
- Newbie
  
  Sooty, I think that’s Rob Pope you’re thinking of?
  
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  December 17, 2017 10:56pm
  - big bruv
    
    Howard Broad would be right up there as well.
    
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    December 18, 2017 6:25am
Inandout

The mad American is on Radio Live, time for El Chapo on Netflix.
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December 17, 2017 10:11pm
Morrissey

Liars of Our Time
No. 55: JAMES CAMERON

Weedy little Hollywood nerd James Cameron reckons he stood up to Harvey Weinstein in 1998….

“I remember almost getting in a fight with Harvey Weinstein and hitting him with my Oscar,” he said.
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2017/11/i-hit-him-with-my-oscar-james-cameron-on-fight-with-harvey-weinstein.html

Note the crucial qualifier: “almost”.

Last week we were subjected to the pathetic spectacle of “Sir” Peter Jackson confessing that he had obeyed Harvey Weinstein’s diktats and not hired women that Weinstein was persecuting.

Now we have another of Weinstein’s former minions talking tough. James Cameron went along unquestioningly with the Hollywood persecution of Kim Dotcom, in which Weinstein was one of the louder and more obnoxious key figures. Whenever he got a chance, Cameron automatically parroted the talking points of his Hollywood paymasters and the Obama administration. He was, and is, the very model of the pliable and unquestioning creature that thrives in corrupt and oppressive hierarchies like the film business.

A tough or independent guy he is not. But now, after Weinstein’s disgrace, Cameron asserts that he “almost” got into a fight with the infamous producer/would-be seducer in 1998.

As a real Hollywood tough guy, Marion Morrison, would have said if he’d lived to hear Cameron’s big talk: “That’ll be the day.”

More Liars….
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-28112015/#comment-1101822
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December 18, 2017 12:28pm

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