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December 14, 2017 8:04am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 December 2017

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General Debate

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ztev

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
“The government will stick with the contractor upgrading two of the navy’s frigates despite the costs going tens of millions of dollars over budget.The previous National government admitted last year the upgrade would cost $100m more than budgeted. Earlier this year the Treasury warned careful management was needed after the cost went up again.”

Mis management means it now costs $695 mill, for something that will only last 10 years or so.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/346152/govt-to-keep-contractor-despite-soaring-cost
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December 14, 2017 8:05am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  There is really no place for your here ztev, you are the square peg that does not fit in any hole, even the square one, you know, ego and all that sort of thing
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:08am
  - ztev
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Dont you want to know about the big cost rise in this defence upgrade project ?
    Big Gerry twiddled his thumbs “no evidence the National government had been searching for a new contractor.”
    
    While the former GP , but long time business consultant previously with Booz Allen ( same outfit as Snowden) and PWC, Coleman shows he couldnt manage his way around a paper bag ( Minister Defence 2011-2014)
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:17am
    - oldpark
      
      A referendum by NZs on Euthanesia, demands Peters. Yet the same little dictator didnt seem to think that it was a one man band who decided who would be the Government of NZ.
      How ironical and the ultimate Hypocrisy.
      
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      December 14, 2017 8:28am
      - ztev
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Obvious to everyone except you, that NZF would go with Labour-Greens. The policies aligned more
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:06am
    - flipper
      
      …Geez that zetev prick is thick … as three short planks.
      
      So now it is OK for any administration to spend $100 million extra on a project when the GE campaign is underway.
      
      And…
      Just in case the prick-head did not know there were two “minor” events requiring higher priority – the stuttering GFC and the earthwobble in Canterbury.,
      
      Of course they are unimportant…according to the medal dancer Mark and his puppetmasters.
      
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      December 14, 2017 8:37am
      - ztev
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        GFC started 10 years ago, Christchurch was 2011.
        
        The first ship left for Canada for the work earlier this year ! Did they have an earthquake in Vancouver too to blow out the cost ?
        
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        December 14, 2017 8:51am
      - cmm
        
        So going to Canada eh?
        
        Here’s what I think is a slightly more rational scenario:
        
        If there was a cost blow out over the initial quote/guidelines, perhaps the National party would have held the ship yard’s feet to the fire and found a better compromise.
        
        Cindy and Robbo: meh, what do they care? It’s just Rich Pricks’ money. Just spend the money and blame National.
        
        Cindy wants to spend lots of money in Canada because her BFF Trudeau might be happy.
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:07am
      - oldpark
        
        Ztev
        You get the nomination. as
        Cranky, Nasty ,Senile. Thats you.
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:12am
      - ztev
        
        CMM you surely arent that stupid.
        The contract had been agreed with Lockheed Martin Canada and the first ship sent there earlier this year.
        
        So now its Ron Marks problem to take the ship back and then ‘look elsewhere’.
        Brownless had admitted the costs had increased even before the election, which he never told the public, and he had done nothing.
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:43am
      - Right of way is Way of Right
        
        I say again Ztev, and I will use small words so you will understand.
        
        WE DO NOT HAVE A SHIP IN CANADA!
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:57am
    - Than
      
      Um, I realise facts and reality aren’t your strong suit ztev, but from the article you linked;
      
      The [current, Labour-led] government will stick with the contractor upgrading two of the navy’s frigates despite the costs going tens of millions of dollars over budget.
      
      So congratulations on the own-goal. It is the current government that has decided to accept this cost overrun. Now I’ll conceed things may not have been any different had National won – depending on how far along things were there may not have been any alternatives. But it is your lot, with their typically lack of fiscal responsibility, that decided not to even try to save costs.
      
      As for Ron Mark’s statement you quote above… well if it comes down to his word against Gerry Brownlee’s I know which I find more credible.
      
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      December 14, 2017 8:55am
      - tf78
        
        Who was responsible for the biggest waste of defence money in purchasing the LAV’s – Labour I recall.
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:07am
      - ztev
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        This mis-management was kept from the voters.
        The ship is with the contractors in Canada for 6 months now.
        
        Did National send it there without the costs being fixed. ?
        Gerry says they ‘started to look around ‘? Whatever that means.
        Does a homeowner ‘look around’ some months after their reno has started and the price has gone up
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:12am
      - Right of way is Way of Right
        
        The ship is in Canada for 6 months now? Funny that, I’m in Devonport, and it was here yesterday!
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:38am
    - softail 1450
      
      ztrev,,,KB’s only serial liar…..
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:08am
      - stephieboy
        
        Only serial liar ??
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:32am
      - GazzaW
        
        Make that two stephieteam. softail forgot about you but that’s understandable.
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:46am
      - Manolo
        
        I reject the single categorisation: our stephieboy deserves to be included!
        
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        December 14, 2017 11:59am
- Jimmy
  
  At a time of rising instability (especially in the Asia Pacific region), this government is determined to gut the NZDF in order to fund tertiary education and other vote-purchasing schemes.
  
  Watch the new government use this as a convenient excuse to gut the NZDF, despite the need for new planes, new artillery, more infantry and a rebuilt Navy.
  
  The NZDF has just done fantastic work training the Iraqi army to defeat ISIS – not a word from the government about this triumph. Now is not the time to defund the NZDF, especially when it is already on its bare bones!!!
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:14am
  - ztev
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    No it doesnt. As Ron Marks has said, creating/training an Iraqi army which is a mirror image of Western style military is doomed to fail.
    
    Well actually, Lawrence of Arabia said the same thing back in 1915.
    
    The US spent 10s of billions on Iraqi army up to time of withdrawal, did that make any difference, so NZs tiddly little effort wont be noticed either.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:34am
    - Jimmy
      
      What makes you think our troops are training the Iraqi Army to be a mirror image of a Western army? You might have a bit more faith in our army’s professionalism – you may wish to look at the results of the training that the NZDF has provided.
      
      Ron Mark scornfully predicted that no amount of training would enable the ISF to defeat ISIS – he was spectacularly wrong there, but you won’t hear that from him.
      
      By the way, every singly troop contributing nation has very publically lauded Iraq on the defeat of ISIS (they had a big parade a few days ago). Denmark, Belgium, Canada, UK, Australia, France, Norway, Italy and many others were publically proud of the Iraqi Army (and their own troops) for defeating one of the most evil entities the world has ever seen. What did the NZ Government have to say?
      
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      December 14, 2017 8:44am
      - ztev
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        You are being silly. Of course our army is more professional but all they can do is try to create a mirror of the NZ Army.
        The cultural differences would be huge
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:15am
      - cmm
        
        “Of course our army is more professional but all they can do is try to create a mirror of the NZ Army.”
        
        That is moronic.
        
        That is like saying a management consulting company can only show a client how to be a management consulting company.
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:34am
      - ztev
        
        The army wasnt advising the Iraqis on their arrangements, just hand on training- ‘this is what we do, just watch us ‘
        
        There are plenty of hands on training course , why chose management consulting of all things….silly
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:39am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Hopefully winning the fight, I do not think that it is ‘won’ yet, dreams of a caliphate might be halted for now, but they will regroup.
        
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        December 14, 2017 8:21pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Who the hell is Ron Marks?
      ztev, someone with your vast political knowledge should know how to spell the man’s name.
      ………..oh, wait.
      
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      December 14, 2017 8:54am
    - oldpark
      
      Ztev
      Nasty,Cranky,Senile. Thats you.
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:15am
      - Sideoiler
        
        Ztev
        Nasty,Cranky,Senile. Thats you.
        
        I think you meant Cranky, Unfriendly, Nasty,Thorny.
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:58am
      - AgentBallSack
        
        Curmudgeonly uninformed niggardly troll
        
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        December 14, 2017 10:30am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    The mission for the New Zealand Defence Force is:
    
    “To secure New Zealand against external threat, to protect our sovereign interests, including the Exclusive Economic Zone, and to take action to meet likely contingencies in New Zealand’s area of strategic interest.”
    
    Makes you wonder why the State (for decades now) has been allowing people who are opposed to New Zealand’s (current) sovereign interests.
    
    Mind you, if a new order were to arise and New Zealand’s “sovereign interests” were to completely change, the New Zealand Defence Force would still have a role to do, to protect those interests.
    
    In other words, the defence forces do as they are told.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:53am
- cmm
  
  Willful sabotage of the partial asset sales by the Lab/Green ferals cost us $2bn and you’re bleating about a $100M overrun?
  
  Sure we don’t like overruns, but I think we’re likely to see a hell of a lot with Robertson trying to control the money.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:15am
  - flipper
    
    Good stuff cmm…
    But the smoke and mirrors will hide that,
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:04am
  - Bullion
    
    I thought National not following Treasury advice cost us when they were selling off assets.
    
    http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/treasury-advises-against-asset-sales-2012122817
    
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    December 14, 2017 10:34am
- redeye
  
  New Zealand’s only living brain donor.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:18am
  - marcw
    
    The recipient would be the first in the world reject the donor – preferring to improve their vegetative state by declining the surgery.
    
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    December 14, 2017 10:29am
- Prince
  
  So why stick with the contractor ? There are other options, but your be-medalled mate just keeps spending. I’m sure the homeless and poverdy-stricken will appreciate his largess.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:34am
- noskire
  
  Hmm, what did you, Helen and the rest of your numpties get for the 17 mothballed Skyhawks Trev? That’s right, $155 million was the asking price, but you settled for $7.9 million, less the $1 million commission paid to Ernst and Young. And a mere $34 million to store and maintain them during the “sale process”.
  That is mismanagement, my poor deluded little friend.
  Now go and iron your gown before the House sits this afternoon. Hopefully you can get that right.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:52am
  - ztev
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Only a deluded fool would think they were worth $155 mill- seriously.
    this was a design of plane whos first operational use was 1956!
    
    I understand the US was the prime cause of the long delay as their approval was required- and they had no reason to do so.
    
    Funny, its Ok now to go back 15 years but not when I mention the voodoo doll John Key.
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:20am
    - noskire
      
      Funny, the Aussies seemed to think that our Skyhawk squadron was up to the task of providing aerial defence for their navy – they even leased some Skyhawks back off us. But what would they know, you and your Labour muppets seem to know how Australia should manage their affairs better than they do.
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:36am
      - ztev
        
        Aerial defence of the RAN ?
        
        They were used to train radar operators on destroyers and frigates, which is now done by a company which flies clapped out executive jets, Pel-Air.
        It was only a ‘support’ role not an operational one, as Australia has its own far more capable F-18s when its Navy went anywhere.
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:50am
      - GazzaW
        
        …..not only that noskire. 75 Squadron pilots were flying F-111s out of Darwin with the RAAF in very short order. The RAAF were also very grateful to pick up the technical, engineering and avionics skills of 75 Squadron’s superbly trained ground crews at bargain prices.
        
        The RNZAF lost more than its combat aircraft with that decision – it lost an infrastructure and traditions that stretched back to WW2.
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:56am
      - ztev
        
        RNZAF was badly run for years.
        When theres a crash or incident , the enquirys show that
        
        https://reports.aviation-safety.net/2013/20131007_B752_NZ7571.pdf
        http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/public-docs/2012/redacted%20coi%20report%20for%20iro%2006_updated.pdf
        
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        December 14, 2017 10:33am
    - Lance
      
      Right up to the 1990’s Israel thought the Skyhawk was the best ground attack aircraft there was.
      But shit… what would they know?
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:38am
      - realityczech
        
        “Right up to the 1990’s Israel thought the Skyhawk was the best ground attack aircraft there was.
        But shit… what would they know?”
        
        They are only killing civilians in the land they are occupying in breach of international law. So they know shit.
        
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        December 14, 2017 5:48pm
      - Brito
        
        I think if International Law was worth a pinch of shit, they’d force the issue…helllooooo!!!
        
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        December 14, 2017 8:02pm
    - Lance
      
      Sorry noskire… your post appeared after I started
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:39am
    - Right of way is Way of Right
      
      Those A4K skyhawks are still flying and are still being used as aggressor squadrons for pilot training.
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:39am
      - ztev
        
        Like other outdated and cheap planes that do the same.
        national had ageed to an expensive ‘lease’ deal for old F-16s that had been in storage. NZ was going to sell the Skyhawks no mater what
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:55am
      - GazzaW
        
        Sell the Skyhawks yes. But not gut the entire personnel of 75 Squadron. That infrastructure can never be rebuilt but what did Clark care?
        
        The F-16s weren’t obsolete ztev. Half the airforces in the world still fly them including the USAF. They were ‘in storage’ as you loosely term it because the Pakistan Air Force option to purchase them had expired.
        
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        December 14, 2017 10:03am
      - Right of way is Way of Right
        
        It wasn’t a lease deal, it was a purchase deal for F16’s (C and D variants) that is still being referred to as the deal of the century. One of the best priced deals anywhere, including spares, simulators and training. Those planes are now being flown by the Pakistan Air Force!
        
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        December 14, 2017 10:06am
      - ztev
        
        The F16s we were supposed to get WERE obsolete.
        
        They were very early Block 10 models, none of which are now flying with western nations. They have very limited capability compared to later models, especially by the early 2000s
        
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        December 14, 2017 10:38am
      - niggly
        
        Nope Ztev, the RNZAF F-16’s were scheduled to have had an upgrade around 2007 (IIRC) to bring them up to a later standard. Yours is another red-herring that the likes of defence detractor Gordon Campbell promoted and spun.
        
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        December 14, 2017 3:53pm
      - ztev
        
        Wrong way idiot- This the ‘deal of the century’- a lease.
        “The United States Government had offered New Zealand the opportunity to acquire 28 F-16s, originally brought for Pakistan, but embargoed in 1990 because of US concerns over Pakistan’s desire to develop nuclear weapons.[17] The planes on offer consisted of 13 single-seater F-16A-15OCU and 15 two-seater F-16B-15OCU, which had been stored at a desert US Air Force base in Arizona since they were built in 1991 and 1992.
        http://press-files.anu.edu.au/downloads/press/p22051/mobile/ch05s02.html
        
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        December 14, 2017 5:39pm
    - waikatogirl
      
      The American’s had to approve the sale of the F16s but David Lange’s Liarbor govt had pissed off our ex ANZUS partner the States so much they were not going to do Hulun’s Liarbor govt any favours. What goes around, comes around.
      Karma ztev.
      
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      December 14, 2017 11:30am
    - softail 1450
      
      ztrev ,stop googling you fricking idiot,there is no interest in your bullshit.
      the contributors on KB a aware that all this shit is not from your general knowledge ,stop trying to act like the worlds most informed man ,idiot…..
      
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      December 14, 2017 12:05pm
      - sam green
        
        All your knowledge pre installed then softail1450?
        
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        December 14, 2017 12:53pm
      - ztev
        
        I generally have links for my facts. My knowledge isnt unlimited thats why I need to check and allow others to find further info.
        
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        December 14, 2017 5:42pm
  - flipper
    
    The boomerang did come back…. just like those LAVs that can’t fit in C130s ? And then you buy too many because that makes the unit cost less. Of course those LAVs are nearing production run end, but don’t we still have some in wrapping ? And will they also need IED upgrades? This is what happens when dyke Simpson pulls a avowed pacifist Minister’s strings, and someone that cannot count beans.
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:20am
    - ztev
      
      LAVs can fit in C130, US army has similar vehicle the Stryker and the USMC uses LAVIII type vehicles.
      
      NZ army was still riding around in trucks like WW2, modern infantry uses these sort of vehicles. US , Australia, UK all do so.
      The number of vehicles and type was decided by NZ army- who did muddle things- but if it was a choice of labour party, they would have chosen Prius.
      30 LAVs as national suggests would only equip a training group and the half strength recon battlion (QAMR), and leave the rest of the 2 infantry battalions to walk or sit on a flat bed truck like they used to.
      http://www.army.mil.nz/about-us/who-we-are/structure/default.htm
      
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      December 14, 2017 10:04am
      - Right of way is Way of Right
        
        Even QAMR agree that we have nearly twice the amount of LAVS than we need.
        
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        December 14, 2017 10:08am
      - ztev
        
        Thats not what the Army told labour government.
        Even 103 wasnt enough to fully equip 2 infantry battalions, QAMR and a training squadron.
        
        Who misses out on your numbers then ( which are financial )
        Even the original ‘mistake’ of all LAVs having the turret and gun has now been seen to be right choice as US army wants to do the same
        
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        December 14, 2017 10:42am
      - niggly
        
        More spin Ztev, sure you can spend hours to dismantle and put one LAV into one C130 (just), but considering NZ is surrounded by ocean the C130 at over max weight carrying one LAV wouldn’t have the range to fly anywhere practical.
        
        Have you noticed that the RNZAF have never flown a LAV anywhere?
        
        And even if they could, you’d need a second C130 to fly the rest of the (single) LAV parts and support equipment. Sheesh mate give it rest!
        
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        December 14, 2017 3:58pm
    - GazzaW
      
      Give it away as a bad job ztev. The interns in the Research Unit might know where to look for the background iinfo but there’s too many ‘boots on the ground’ KBers who’ve been there done that. Example – sure its technically possible to fit a LAV into a Herc but your precious interns couldn’t figure out that first you have to dismantle it and then you need a second Herc to carry the extras.
      
      Your’e too free with the technical background shit and the links to know diddly squat about practicalities.
      
      You’re posts are getting as bad as those of Hugh and William.
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:04pm
- niggly
  
  Crikey Ztev you’re sometimes better than this limp wristed effort – did the research unit interns not dig far back enough for you?
  
  Mis management means it now costs $695 mill, for something that will only last 10 years or so.
  Because if they did they would have noted that the ANZAC Frigate upgrade was actually the Labour Govt’s policy from their Defence Long Term Development Plan from 2002 onwards!
  
  (See LTDP June 2003 update page 41 http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/public-docs/deflongtermdevplan.pdf).
  
  Although initially $300m at the time, by the time of the Labour Govt 2006 Defence Long Term Development Plan the cost had risen to $450-500M
  http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/public-docs/2006longtermdevelopmentplan.pdf
  
  So two things:
  
  Firstly if Labour Govt 1999-2008 had actually got on with it and upgraded the (now obsolete) Frigates some 10 years or so ago, then the Navy would have got some 20 years+ use from (instead of the current 10-15 years use).
  
  Secondly if Labour Govt 1999-2008 had actually got on with it and upgraded the (now obsolete) Frigates then the cost would have been lower! Anyway if the current cost has “blown out” by a couple of hundred million (which who cares when Labour/Greens/NZF are dishing out tens of billions in bribes anyway), it’s not really a bifg escalation in the scheme of things compared to costings some 10 years ago!
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:52am
  - niggly
    
    Can’t edit so …. Ztev – please tell the Labour interns to try harder please (or perhaps actually pay them to research properly you miserly slave drivers)!
    
    Oh and send them to H2 for a dressing down!
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:55am
  - G152
    
    I want to see the boys in the best most modern gear.
    If it costs a bit more so be it.
    The mechanic should concentrate on getting his medals in order ….
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:09am
  - ztev
    
    The missiles they will be upgraded with the UK Sea Ceptor has only just gone into service with the RN
    
    MOD Announces Successful First Firing of Sea Ceptor
    http://www.warfare.today/2017/09/05/royal-navy-tests-sea-ceptor/
    
    How were we going to ‘upgrade’ 10 years ago ? I understand non warfare systems were previously upgraded.
    Other major projects were completed under labour, especially the new supply ship, new patrol vessels.
    
    A much better record in 9 years than the previous national party did from 2009-2017.
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:27am
    - niggly
      
      Good grief Ztev stop spinning, if Clark’s Labour govt ever got off its arse to spend the billions of revenue surpluses it accrued (but cried poor when it came to defence by cutting NZDF combat capabilities), then the missile upgrade ten years ago would have followed what just about every other nation did which was upgrade the obsolete RIM-7 SeaSparrow missile with the highly capable RIM-162 Evolved SeaSparrow Missile (ESSM) just like the Aussies did.
      
      OMG Ztev those other vessels you talk about (Project Protector patrol and sealift vessels) that Labour bought were, because of (Labour) budget constraints, under-funded and designed to cheaper civilian standards (without military grade damage control and redundancy), they are essentially very good “coast guard” vessels. To make matters worse they were years behind schedule and it was left to the then incoming National Govt (2008) which had to go to court with the builder and got them to pay for modifications under warranty to get them to become operational finally!
      
      Projector Protector, like the excessive LAV purchases, like the expensive NH-90 helicopter purchases, like the C130 replacement delay (upgrade instead) were NOT examples of good procurement (thanks to forced/ideological budget constraints forcing NZDF to make compromises) under the last Labour Govt!
      
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      December 14, 2017 4:09pm
- G152
  
  And who originally bought these frigates ?
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:00am
  - ztev
    
    Order was placed by Lange government, the first two were built in Australian shipyard but option for 3rd ship cancelled by Bolger government
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:31am
    - Right of way is Way of Right
      
      Cancelled because Winnie wouldn’t go along with it, if I recall correctly! Bugger three, we should have got 4!! The original plan was to receive the 2nd and 4th ship from the building programme, and a further 2 were to be built at the end of the run in Williamstown. However the government of the day (National) baulked at the cost, and only went for an extra one, then Winnie scuppered that one as well. A 4 frigate navy is much more manageable, given our EEZ and global responsibilities in regard to trade and freedom of the seas.
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:41am
    - Brito
      
      The best line I ever heard about the state of our MoD was from Billy T (I think).
      
      Imagine an army officer turning to his ‘man’ and saying, “Lieutenant, can you contact the Navy and see if we can have the gun for this weekend?”
      
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      December 14, 2017 10:09am
Paulus Gnome

Black Friday, Black Monday and now Taxinda Thursday.

Well that is one ‘achievement’ for the first hundred days on the board!

I can’t wait!
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December 14, 2017 8:06am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You mean the great news for families and pensioners !
  ‘family on $50,000 with a new born and 3-year-old is $131 a week better off with its package.’
  ‘ winter fuel payment for beneficiaries and superannuitants, delivering $450 a year to a single person and $700 to a couple or a person with dependent children.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:10am
  - Wangas Feral
    
    Cancel my tax cut to pay for it. So my kids that I need to help miss out.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:12am
    - Keeping Stock
      
      Indeed. The real losers will be those couples who are behind the eight ball in middle age because they invested every penny they had into their children.
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:05am
    - ztev
      
      Let your working children look after themselves.
      
      Mummy and Daddy dont need to support you when you are in 20s
      
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      December 14, 2017 12:39pm
  - Lance
    
    While the average hard working family losses $1000
    
    Yea… real winning shit
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:13am
    - ztev
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Average family with no children – yeah right!
      
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      December 14, 2017 8:19am
      - Lance
        
        Of FFS ztev
        You really take the cake for the most lying, deceiving and downright idiotic poster here.
        
        Average INCOME family will be worse off and you know it. Desperately trying to run interference here.
        
        Troll
        
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        December 14, 2017 8:25am
      - oldpark
        
        Ztev
        Cranky .Nasty ,Senile . Thats you.
        
        14 1
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        December 14, 2017 9:21am
      - JibberJabber
        
        Why do govt parasites like yourself hate success and people who work to support themselves and their families?
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:40am
      - Right of way is Way of Right
        
        A hard-working average family will usually earn enough so that they have no entitlement. All through raising my children we were entitled to absolutely NOTHING and claimed NOTHING. As far as this government is concerned, I am nothing but a cash cow. If I have done my job raising my children, why should my reward now be to pay more tax to raise other peoples kids?
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:47am
      - ztev
        
        Average incomes are quite high ( households at $100k or so) , but median incomes are a more realistic number. Thats where the real kiwis are at.
        
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        December 14, 2017 5:49pm
    - ztev
      
      Much less than that for most working families, thats why labours package will be better for them.
      
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      December 14, 2017 12:37pm
      - Lance
        
        While Labour is pissing all over middle NZ again.
        
        I’m picking National will point this out
        
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        December 14, 2017 1:42pm
  - KevOB
    
    The Col is not that good for pensioners. The commies have decided to substitute a seasonal spreadout payment for a regular 2-weekly increase via a tax cut. We have been denied choice. Next we will be on food vouchers–without sugar.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:19am
  - softail 1450
    
    ztrev ,you should put down the meth pipe ,stop googling ,and get some sleep you fool.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:20am
  - holysheet
    
    How much wine can I buy for my $450? I suppose at least it will keep me warm from the inside.
    Stupid, stupid, stupid. Using my own tax to pay for something I do not need, but I will take it.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:21am
    - Paulus
      
      Your $450 will pay for another months fuel bills.
      
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      December 14, 2017 8:27am
    - rangitoto
      
      It will add some extra spending money for your winter vacation to North Queensland.
      
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      December 14, 2017 11:59am
  - kevn
    
    z. I wouldn’t normally bother with you (all) but…
    Living in far North as opposed to far South. Which pensioners will need the winter fuel payment? How many pensioners would far rather just have the modest increase in the super and make their own choices? ALL of them of course.
    The broad brush winter fuel payment… fail
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:36am
  - Prince
    
    Yep, take $1100 ($2200 if a couple) from pensioners and given them $450 ($750 if a couple), expect them to be grateful for your generosity.
    Makes sense on planet Labour.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:37am
  - oldpark
    
    ZTEV
    Nasty ,Cranky.Senile . Thats you .
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:17am
- RalphT
  
  Ah, the ghost of Arnold Nordmeyer will be stalking the corridors of Parliament today, with a contented grin on his face.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:12am
  - KevOB
    
    Nordmeyer cost Labour the following elections.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:21am
    - RalphT
      
      Indeed, and lets hope that history repeats, though I suspect it won’t be a mini budget that does this government in; their behaviour in the next three years plus the recommendations of the tax working group will be what decides the fate of this lot.
      
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      December 14, 2017 8:25am
      - KevOB
        
        We haven’t heard it yet. Today may be sufficient.
        
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        December 14, 2017 8:34am
    - stephieboy
      
      Coming from which rest home ?
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:35am
Wangas Feral

Thanks CoL for cancelling the tax cuts. That money was going to help my kids at Uni to pay their last month’s rent.
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December 14, 2017 8:11am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “A Hamilton family with a four year old and a baby on an income of $55,000:”?
  $90 a week better off with Labour compared with National.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:23am
  - Prince
    
    There may be 30 such examples. What about the other 4.2M NZ’ers ? Tough on them.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:40am
    - Keeping Stock
      
      Indeed; what about those of us without dependent children (although I have a wedding to assist with next year!) who are on or about the average wage?
      
      What ztev doesn’t mention of course is the double-whammy; not only do we lose the $1060pa tax cut which has already been passed into law, but we will have to contribute to the Hamilton family ztev refers to above via our taxes who are getting an extra $90/week, as opposed to the $20 we were saving.
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:13am
      - ztev
        
        YOU get nothing. Eat that
        
        The country isnt run for the benefit of the 5% anymore
        
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        December 14, 2017 10:46am
      - sooty
        
        Nasty. Ztev. Thats you. Pressure getting to much.
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:21pm
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    Can’t afford kids? Don’t have them.
    Does the concept of personal responsibility ever penetrate that red misted view of the world?
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:06am
  - oldpark
    
    Ztev
    Cranky Nasty ,Senile . Thats you.
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:18am
- MrLovebucket
  
  They haven’t so much as cancelled tax cuts. The tax rates for 2018/19 have been in place for some time. Labour have just increased taxes for next year.
  
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  December 14, 2017 5:12pm
Yvette

The Government is about to declare all our existing houses as ”sensitive land”.
and that you can only sell your house to Australian citizens or New Zealanders.

A foreigner presumably can still build a new house, but does that then become an existing house as soon as it is occupied and therefore somehow (perhaps via fairy-dust) transforms into being “sensitive”, so that foreign owner can not sell it to another foreigner, even although it is a foreign finance built house?
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December 14, 2017 8:11am
- Chris R
  
  More to the point: What is it going to achieve? Will it reduce prices? No. Will it make it simpler for Kiwis to buy houses? No. Will it remedy the alleged housing crisis? No. This is nothing more than inane political posturing by a bunch of dimwits who think they’re in a Political Science tutorial at a leftie university. The policy is naive garbage!
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:18am
  - KevOB
    
    The aim is to avoid international repercussions about trade restrictions.
    
    Labour know their dodgy so they are trying to hide their actions.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:23am
    - marcw
      
      Maybe the Chinese government will declare, say, wine to be ‘sensitive’ import as it is percieved to be a health issue in China. New regulations will be made to ‘regulate’ the importation of NZ wine as it is now a ‘sensitive’ import. Shipments will only be accepted at certain ports where inspection and critical controlling red tape can be applied (slowly) – unfortunately these ports are in the far north province, and lack certain vital infrastructure, like container handling facilities. It’s all ‘sensitive’ you understand and in the interests of the health and welfare of our people, nothing personal. Heh, heh 🙂
      
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      December 14, 2017 10:43am
      - ztev
        
        China restricts foreigners buying houses , and a lot of cities restrict ‘out of area chinese’ too
        
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        December 14, 2017 12:35pm
  - ztev
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Its not the only change- the time between sales has to be 5 years instead of 2 years to be classified as investment and the capital gain not be taxed.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:26am
  - Piniwi
    
    But Chris R we could see a big increase in new companies registered so they can buy an existing house. Where there is a will there is a way and the legislation will have minimal impact on the housing situation.
    Inflation and interest rates are due to rise in 2018 so say the Treasury so the COL might ease the market pressure by accident. Cheap affordable houses will be a plenty as panicking mortgagee sale ramp up. Sadly most will have to wait 3 years for their deflated QV to help them with their rates burden. Lol
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:19pm
Chris R

I have decided Jacinda needs a new job and have found her one: Fielding at first slip for the England Cricket Team. As the Aussie batsmen walk to the crease she can harangue them about the shortcomings of their government in the manner she’s done to Malcolm Turnbull. Ideally the opening batsman would be a relative of Barnaby Joyce. Australia would still win the Test inside of 4 days despite the Jacinda weapon.
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December 14, 2017 8:15am
- Victor Omega
  
  silly mid on, surely.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:21am
  - sooty
    
    Silly middle aged, surely!
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:34am
    - RalphT
      
      She’s not middle aged, she’s yoof, remember?
      
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      December 14, 2017 8:45am
      - G152
        
        She ties her hair back.
        Why?
        Pulls all the middle age wrinkles out of the face
        
        12 1
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        December 14, 2017 9:12am
      - Victor Omega
        
        Geez, G152, if she keeps doing that she’ll end up with a goatee.
        
        10 1
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        December 14, 2017 9:15am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        or a cleft chin . . .
        
        6 1
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        December 14, 2017 10:10am
    - flipper
      
      Anyone recall Malcolm Muggeridge?
      Trim the toothfairy’s hair and Muggeridge has been reborn.
      Ardern is heading for the high jump, and no amount of protection from Peters, his media conduits that “leak” and/or editorialise to prescription will men the electoral fence at the top of a very unstable cliff.
      And I wonder what those conduits will do when Crown Law and other subpoenas/writs land on them. Of course Chicken Little could try and tell the Solicitor General to butt out, but that would be really exciting.
      Bring on the Moet.
      
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      December 14, 2017 10:07am
- noskire
  
  I would have thought she would be better fielding at cow corner.
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:13am
- Paulus
  
  What makes you think that the England Cricket team would want her – she is hopeless as a one armed fielder.
  
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  December 14, 2017 10:57am
  - waikatogirl
    
    Paulus, She is just hopeless full stop!
    
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    December 14, 2017 11:41am
holysheet

I have deliberately kept away from the previous topic (end of life bill). The majority of comments are from the anti brigade. Flicking through these comments, nothing will change their stupid infantile comments, so why bother to engage them in any form of debate.
Most of the posters there are god botherers looking to impose their hightened sense of morality on the rest of us.
Best to keep away and leave them to it.
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December 14, 2017 8:18am
- Lance
  
  So why air you butthurt on GD?
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:20am
  - holysheet
    
    Think about it dumb arse.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:22am
    - Lance
      
      Silly old me thought a thread about a particular topic was were you commented on that topic?
      If every frustrated person who doesn’t get there point across comes to moan on GD about how they weren’t appreciated it would get far more tedious than usual.
      
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      December 14, 2017 8:30am
- Peter
  
  Yes. There is no rational argument to be had with the botherers on this topic. Their position boils down to “my invisible friend commands that we can’t, so that means YOU can’t”
  
  Ignore them. They aren’t debating.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:43am
  - SGA
    
    That’s a little unfair – one can have an interesting exchange with Kimbo on the topic, for example.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:55am
    - Peter
      
      Death comes to us all. There is no escaping it. Some may choose a more graceful exit than others.
      
      The rest, from what I can see, is god-bothering by proxy.
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:10am
  - lifesgood
    
    So everyone who doesn’t agree with you is a “botherer”. What utter rot! You can’t make a rational argument so you resort to insults.
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:11am
    - Peter
      
      It’s like arguing with a pig. Pointless. Wastes ones time, and it annoys the pig.
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:47am
- Nukuleka
  
  holysheet- argue the issue rather than ridicule those who oppose your opinions by using adolescent labels.
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:08am
- rightoverlabour
  
  I am a good Catholic God Botherer. The Euthanasia debate is troublesome for me in that we are debating the legal killing of a human being. I understand the suffering of those who would like to end their lives more quickly, but it is the principle underpinning the law that is bothersome. Do we have the right to legislate when it is legal to deliberately kill another human being? (Barring self defence arguments). And I have not mentioned God in the argument. The problem is once we have decided we can legislate this, then its just a matter of time when we look at the circumstances that warrant it and the slope starts to become a little slippery.
  
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  December 14, 2017 10:07am
  - Peter
    
    Yes, only God (fate) should be able to bring death.
    
    These people are terminal. Their choice is not life. They only have one choice left, and that is timing.
    
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    December 14, 2017 10:47am
cmm

Hawking used to be pretty sensible, but he seems to have recently gone off his trolley.

A few months back he was spouting that the world will become a man-made fireball before 2600. That is a ridiculous notion even if you take the worst IPCC estimates and multiply them by 10 and dropped 100x all the words nukes.

Now he thinks an odd-shaped asteroid might be an alien space ship.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=11959103
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December 14, 2017 8:22am
- KevOB
  
  Seniility.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:37am
- Lance
  
  That’s a bit disingenuous, more a function of piss poor reporting.
  The point was made this is our first known interstellar rock. Unlike any other meteor ever encountered it is cigar shaped at a ration of 10:1. It just happened to slingshot around the sun. Considering how empty space is, that’s remarkably good luck with such a fine window.
  So the Hawkings team is leading an effort to train a number of space (radio) telescopes on the meteor to see if it is emitting any radio waves or energy sources etc. Hell. why not?
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:38am
  - Lance
    
    Also it is extremely black, which is also unheard of in the local meteors.
    Probably all just a function of being formed in a different environment than our solar system but that has got to be seriously interesting.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:45am
  - KevOB
    
    There has been some real wacky stuff from Stephen Hawking in recent years. Beyond science into unreasonable. Typical of an age damaged brain. Pity.
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:57am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Sorry KoB, fat scrolling thumbs on small screen is always going to be a recipe for disaster and report buttons are the easiest to hit when so challenged. . . .
      
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      December 14, 2017 10:15am
  - cmm
    
    Hey I’m not denying it is an interesting rock, but spaceship??
    
    “Considering how empty space is, that’s remarkably good luck with such a fine window.”
    
    To an extent yes, but there’s a lot of matter flying about and gravity tends to concentrate it.
    
    We only think space is empty due to the limits of our technology and the fact that we’ve only really been looking for the last 10-20 years.
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:21am
    - Lance
      
      Fair enough, but I don’t see it as a bad thing if some radio telescopes check it out just in case.
      
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      December 14, 2017 1:47pm
  - rangitoto
    
    It’s not really good luck. These type of objects are expected to be commonly passing through the inner solar system. It is only because the possibility of detecting them has changed with a number of survey telescopes such Pan-STARS now online that repeatedly image large areas of the sky down to 23rd magnitude. Prior this there was essentially zero chance of detecting them.
    
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    December 14, 2017 4:01pm
Paulus

I can see the HOUSE FOR SALE advert –
Only New Zealand Citizens and Permanent Residents, and True Australians can apply.
No Chinese, Indian, American, Poms, or any EU Country, and any other of the 190 odd countries can apply.
That should cut down the real Estate Industry by at least 90%.
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December 14, 2017 8:25am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Do you want house prices in Auckland to double again in the next 6 years ?
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:27am
  - Chris R
    
    Yes!
    
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    December 14, 2017 8:33am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Absolutely, yes.
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:55am
  - flipper
    
    Another three short planks example from the tick beneath the Mallard duck’s feathers.
    
    Socialist pricks like Zeterv and the whole Peters-Ardern Regime just blame others because their gratuitous attempts to block out the sun (or whatever ) fail miserably.
    
    Oh well … South Auckland will soon be seen and confirmed as Venezuela Mk II ….. at the cost the rest of the nation.
    
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    December 14, 2017 10:19am
- tf78
  
  Good point there – what about the “human rights” aspect, surely it must be against them with all that prejudice and racism.
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:19am
cmm

Morgan calling it quits: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11959381

No doubt some parting shot like:”The voters are too fucking stupid to see what a hereo I would have been.”

They’re talking as if TOP will carry on, but without Morgan filling the trough with swill, the piggies will surely all walk away.

TOP is not a legacy, it is really just a one-man vanity party like Conservative and Winston First.

The only reason Winston succeeded is that he at least has the 30 years of political working knowledge and a track record to make it happen. Also, I suppose, Winston knows how to work the people, something Morgan and Craig never understood.
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December 14, 2017 8:30am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  “Winston knows how to work the people”
  
  Correction: “Winston knows how to work the deluded fools.”
  
  There, fixed.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:38am
  - cmm
    
    There are enough deluded fools to reach his goals.
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:09am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Not enough to go around?
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:12pm
- Peter
  
  He’s still appears to be funding it:
  
  “The fact is, while I remain committed to helping fund and coordinate TOP’s evidence-based policies, I have no desire to lead the party in Parliament”
  
  They are better off without Morgan as the front person. If they get someone who can market to people, they might – with luck – split the Green vote.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:39am
- cmm
  
  To be fair, Morgan did get one really good point across:
  
  Lipstick on a Pig.
  
  Not much for $4mil or whatever he blew on the exercise.
  
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  December 14, 2017 10:18am
- MrLovebucket
  
  He has just improved the TOP parties appeal across the board.
  
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  December 14, 2017 5:07pm
ztev

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
So Moore and his fanboi Trump got a good smacking last night in Alabama.

Maybe another GOP state that has senate elections for replacements will lose one and we can do this all over again.
McCain is quite sick .
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December 14, 2017 8:39am
- Rich Prick
  
  Must you repeatedly drag your swollen glands across every post here?
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:47am
- calendar girl
  
  “McCain is quite sick.”
  
  With comments like that, you’re the sick one, ztev.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:52am
- Victor Omega
  
  Democrat logic: “Roy Moore can’t molest your children, if you kill them before they leave the womb”.
  
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  December 14, 2017 10:11am
VicParking

Conscience vote on Euthanesia except for NZ First who all voted as Winston wanted them to.
Ron Mark signs the defence contract then blames the National Government for the extra cost.
Jancinda good luck with this lot. Mind you her own Ministers, Minister of Employment being one, don’t even know the basic facts, minimum wage for example , about their own portfolios.
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December 14, 2017 8:47am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Defence contract was signed by previous government, first ship left for Vancouver area earlier this year, thats why they are blamed for extra cost.
  
  Your car is with the mechanic allready, you cant really negotiate over increase in costs.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:54am
  - Right of way is Way of Right
    
    I can categorically state, without fear of contradiction, that there are NO New Zealand Navy Ships in Canada. Both of our ANZAC frigates are currently alongside in Devonport Naval Base. I saw them there myself yesterday, and both are clearly visible from Auckland Harbour.
    
    Might pay to carry out a little fact checking!
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:52am
    - ztev
      
      Heres the RNZN celebrating the signing of the Contract in 2014
      http://www.navy.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/navy-today/nt179.pdf
      https://www.defence.govt.nz/what-we-do/delivering-defence-capability/defence-capability-projects/anzac-ships-upgrade-frigate-systems-upgrade-fsu/
      
      heres the navy saying Te Mana leaves for Canada- in May
      “In 2017, Te Mana will commence preparations for her Frigate Systems Upgrade (FSU). In May she will start her long journey to Esquimalt on the southern tip of Vancouver Island in British Columbia, Canada. The upgrade will be completed by Lockheed Martin Canada.”
      
      Are you saying the Navy doesnt know where its ships are ?
      
      1 15
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      December 14, 2017 10:20am
      - Right of way is Way of Right
        
        Hmm, how I can put this gently?
        
        I have served in Her Majesties Forces for the majority of my life. I work in Devonport. Yesterday, I saw, with my own eyes, two ANZAC class frigates with kiwi insignia on their funnels, berthed at the Naval Base in Auckland!
        
        There are only two ANZAC class frigates with kiwi insignia.
        
        By a simple process of elimination then, there simply cannot be any ANZAC class frigates in Canada.
        
        Between May and now, there was a general election in New Zealand. Perhaps that had something to do with it?
        
        I am not saying that the Navy does not know where it’s ships are. I am saying that you might have a problem with either the passage of time or reality!
        
        (Just a wee pointer, the internet isn’t reality!)
        
        If you spent a bit more time in the real world, then your opinions may have a little more credibility, however I doubt that!
        
        Just so I can be sure it’s not me going nuts, can anyone else in Auckland count to two?
        
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        December 14, 2017 1:05pm
  - Brito
    
    This is specially for you. Merry Xmas and bless your continued postings…
    
    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/12/christmas-jihad-bells-song/
    
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    December 14, 2017 10:12am
    - realityczech
      
      Brittle, what ever happened to that gay Jewish chippy born of a single mum – Jesus ?
      
      3 0
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      December 14, 2017 5:41pm
      - Brito
        
        He went to a far, far better place.
        
        2 0
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        December 14, 2017 8:00pm
dime

so labours mini budget is due and they are going to reward the people with kids, who maybe cant afford to actually have em.

if youre trying to set yourself up financially before having kids, you can go fuck yourself.
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December 14, 2017 8:49am
oldpark

Peters and his selected “Coalition of Confusion and Corruption” will decide today to increase income tax on wage earners. The tax cuts were legislated for by National and approved and voted for by Peters and his gang of free loaders.
Today Peters and the same gang of free loaders will shaft wage earners and fixed income poor old pensioners.
Talk about betrayal of his supporters. Even Judas who once sold out his principles for thirty pieces of silver,did the right thing ,when he realised his betrayal.
Perhaps the demand by Peters on a Referendum on Euthanesia by NZs if it gets the up tick ,his feelings of personal betrayal of his over 65s Gold Card supporters may be satisfied.He will then act accordingly.
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December 14, 2017 8:53am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  National legislated tax cuts at the end of 2008 after the election.
  They then cancelled those tax cuts at the next budget in 2009.
  Its OK when national does it.
  
  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10536380
  
  6 months later
  http://www.newshub.co.nz/business/tax-cuts-officially-pulled-from-budget-2009-2009050716
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:00am
  - dime
    
    hey loser, a lot of us on here went apeshit when national didnt cut taxes as planned.
    
    the flipside is – the economy was poked, labour had spent everything.
    
    these current shit heads inherited a good economy, even though they prefaced their reign of shit by saying – the economies about to tank and its nationals fault.
    
    how anyone supports these losers is beyond me.
    
    and why the fuck am i responding to the worst troll kiwiblog has seen? even philu… was less boring…
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:20am
    - ztev
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      At least Jacinda told the voters they would do this.
      
      John Key , not a peep, which he repeated in 2011 with the GST rise and the 9c+gst petrol tax rise
      Not a peep before the election.
      Thats national lie through their teeth about their own tax increases after the elections.
      Same went for the pension age- we wont increase it for 20 years, then it will rise…pleeese.
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:36am
      - dime
        
        agree. labour did tell us up from that they would fuck us.
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:51am
      - JibberJabber
        
        Yeah, Taxinda signalled she was gonna fuck the economy and all of you ignorant losers voted for the silly bint.
        It`s the only promise she and Winny the Turd are gonna keep.
        Fascinating that you`re all too thick to follow the old adage, be careful what you wish for.
        LabourGreen voters, NZs slowest learners.
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:51am
  - oldpark
    
    ZTEV
    Cranky ,Nasty ,Senile . Thats you.
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:23am
  - mandk
    
    It’s official then.
    
    ztev would have preferred the Gov’t of the day not to have mitigated the effects of the GFC.
    
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    December 14, 2017 10:10am
    - ztev
      
      Not if it didnt work.
      Labour in Australia had it about right, they hardly noticed the GFC, lucky for us!
      
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      December 14, 2017 10:48am
      - Rich Prick
        
        Now you’re just making shit up. Natural resources tanked in WA and the NT. Property prices tanked everywhere. Yes Labor didn’t notice, that was the start of their $28b problem.
        
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        December 14, 2017 11:06am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        And Australia’s economy is fucked for another ten years as a result.
        
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        December 14, 2017 11:14am
      - mandk
        
        What a numpty you are, ztev.
        
        Australia hardly noticed the GFC because at the time China was buying up everything as quickly as the Aussies could dig stuff out of the ground.
        
        Australia’s economic performance has been a lot less flash since China stopped doing that.
        
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        December 14, 2017 11:45am
      - waikatogirl
        
        ztev, the Aussie’s economy tanked. That resulted in a whole pile of NZ’ers returning home to the booming economy on this side of the Tasman cause the shit had hit the fan over there.
        
        Do you ever come out of your basement bunker?
        
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        December 14, 2017 12:00pm
      - Manolo
        
        Given his vast and deep knowledge of economics, I suspect ztev could be Grant Robertson himself.
        
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        December 14, 2017 12:03pm
- Piniwi
  
  True oldpark but it is interesting to note his narrative has now changed to only being an echo chamber for Labour. He is upset some higher earners will get a modest tax cut too? Why note? They after all are who actually have to pay tax unlike an increasing number of negative tax payers.
  The tax cuts favoured the low/middle income group the most but ALL tax payers are equally entitled to a share in the strong economy. The steady increases in income well above the low inflation level have even had supernatants feeling the effects of tax bracket creep. Removing this tax cut to be replaced with hand-outs is working backwards to get to the same point at a much greater cost to every taxpayer.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:37pm
Digmen1

Everyone’s going to be better off!
Except working people and businesses and exporters.
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December 14, 2017 8:55am
- kevn
  
  dig… add pensioners to the list.
  
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  December 14, 2017 8:57am
Morrissey

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
GROPERS
No. 18: Donald John Trump

JILL HARTH: He groped me. He absolutely groped me. And he just slipped his hand there, touching my private parts.

TEMPLE TAGGART: He turned to me and embraced me and gave me a kiss on the lips. And I remember being shocked and—because I would have just thought to shake somebody’s hand. But that was his first response with me.

JESSICA LEEDS: It was a real shock when all of the sudden his hands were all over me. But it’s when he started putting his hand up my skirt, and that was it. That was it.

KRISTIN ANDERSON: The person on my right, who, unbeknownst to me at that time, was Donald Trump, put their hand up my skirt. He did touch my vagina through my underwear.

LISA BOYNE: As the women walked across the table, Donald Trump would look up under their skirt and, you know, comment on whether they had underwear or didn’t have underwear. I didn’t want to have to walk across the table. I wanted to get out of there.

KARENA VIRGINIA: Then his hand touched the right inside of my breast. I felt intimidated, and I felt powerless.

MINDY McGILLIVRAY: Melania was standing right next to him when he touched my butt.

JESSICA DRAKE: When we entered the room, he grabbed each of us tightly in a hug and kissed each one of us without asking permission. After that, I received another call from either Donald or a male calling on his behalf, offering me $10,000. His actions are a huge testament to his character, that of uncontrollable misogyny, entitlement and being a sexual assault apologist.
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/12/12/meet_the_miss_usa_contestant_accusing

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11959328

“GROPERS” is presented by GroperWatch®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.

No.1 George Herbert Walker Bush; No. 2 Bill O’Reilly; No. 3 Al Franken; No. 4 Robin Brooke; No. 5 Lester Beck; No. 6 Arnold Schwarzenegger; No. 7 Joe Biden; No. 8 Rolf Harris; No. 9 Harold Bloom; No. 10 Sir Jimmy Savile; No. 11 Dr Morgan Fahey; No.12 Prince Harry; No. 13 Bill Clinton; No.14 Judge Roy Moore; No. 15 Matt Lauer; No. 16 Richard Branson; No. 17 Warren Moon
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December 14, 2017 9:01am
- Rich Prick
  
  It sounds as though you’re bitter at missing out on all the fun.
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:20am
  - Morrissey
    
    Do you really call what you did to that waitress “fun”, John?
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:40am
- flipper
  
  Playing pocket billiards again Morrissey ?
  
  Fuck off and do it behind the bike sheds.
  
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  December 14, 2017 10:24am
Morrissey

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Two haters of young women have signed in with us, I see.
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December 14, 2017 9:07am
- Nukuleka
  
  Still getting your rocks off at the thought of all that groping, eh, Morrie.
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:11am
  - dime
    
    Morrissey the soy boy is one of those feminist types. he thinks if he sucks up to womene nough they will actually f*ck him.
    
    he isnt old enough yet to realise thats not how it works.
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:21am
    - Morrissey
      
      Oh yes it is how it works, dime. Ask your wife….
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:39am
      - dime
        
        this is how i imagine you.. but more girly
        
        https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/ccee6525-59c6-41eb-83e7-dd79f228f80e_1.acc76c2b7e1ba39344e7afb95052910d.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF
        
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        December 14, 2017 9:52am
      - Morrissey
        
        Hmmm… getting warm, my friend.
        
        1 13
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        December 14, 2017 9:55am
      - dime
        
        you have assburgers too?
        
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        December 14, 2017 10:24am
    - waikatogirl
      
      Agree dime, that’s not how it works morrisey. ?
      
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      December 14, 2017 12:03pm
      - Morrissey
        
        We-e-e-elllll, “waikatogirl”, howzabout you sashay round to Chez Breen some time and show me how it really works?
        
        Some time soon, please.
        
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        December 14, 2017 5:50pm
- softail 1450
  
  moronissey , the only two brain cells in Moronisseys head are rattling around looking for a way out of the madness…
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:12am
  - Morrissey
    
    Oh God, softail, you’ve touched a nerve….
    
    http://cdn-webimages.wimages.net/050f8238f99081597953b1dfedc40a0f08a3bd-wm.jpg?v=3
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:26am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Christ you talk some shit morris dancer.
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:13am
  - Morrissey
    
    Hey let’s not shoot the messenger here, Cap’n! That talking you disparage is by victim after victim (all of them young women) of a serial and ruthless predator, the like of which has never been seen in the White House or probably anywhere else for that matter, with the possible exception of President Idi Amin in Uganda.
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:20am
    - Brito
      
      Hey Morry, make sure you don’t stop posting.
      
      Your right to express your opinion is what keeps this thing interesting.
      
      I may disagree with everything you say and I may agree with most of the comments people post about you, but don’t let that stop you BECAUSE PEOPLE (sorry, my old teacher suddenly flashed up on my screen) that’s why we have the Internet.
      
      It brings us all together and we all feel furry and soft and warm about each other.
      
      Anyway, keep up the good work, oh, and all power to the down tickers and anti-morry(ist’s).
      
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      December 14, 2017 10:20am
      - Morrissey
        
        Thanks for those kind words, Brito.
        
        https://wallpaperclicker.com/storage/wallpaper/I-love-you-HD-Wallpaper-HVD-89375424.jpg
        
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        December 14, 2017 5:48pm
      - realityczech
        
        “It brings us all together and we all feel furry and soft and warm about each other.”
        
        Brittle, what has happened to you ? Have you left that radical synagogue and are being guided by a wiser Rabbi now ? 🙂
        
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        December 14, 2017 5:53pm
  - Brito
    
    Just trying to help. Some of us need a wee cuddle now and again.
    
    And some of us need the business end of an Uzi (as well).
    
    Is that better??
    
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    December 14, 2017 7:58pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  Only one hater here today; Morrissey Breen.
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:53am
  - stephieboy
    
    Only one ??? But tw examples post as at 9.39 & 9.49
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:54am
Manolo

Eternal enemies of Israel:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/erdogan-seeks-galvanise-muslim-leaders-over-jerusalem-015359061.html

Islamic leaders on Wednesday urged the world to recognise occupied East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine, as Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas warned the United States no longer had any role to play in the peace process.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan convened in Istanbul an emergency summit of the world’s main pan-Islamic body, the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, seeking a tough response to the recognition by US President Donald Trump of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.
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December 14, 2017 9:09am
- Morrissey
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Israel is a rogue state. Every country in the world, even its chief sponsor and enabler the United States before the woman-attacking ignoramus took power there, has condemned Israel’s illegal occupation of East Jerusalem.
  
  You need to do some reading, Manolo. Is there a library near your house?
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:17am
  - dime
    
    jesus
    
    ztev “im the worst troll here”
    Morrissey “hold my soy drink”
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:22am
    - Morrissey
      
      Ha ha ha ha! Scenario coming up?
      
      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bd/dd/7f/bddd7ffe5c2ee4ca8313cb44ca4201aa.jpg
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:43am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Morris dancer, the world would be a better place if Israel occupied every country between the Mediterranean Sea and Afghanistan.
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:29am
    - Rich Prick
      
      And, I might add, every Islamic shithole from Somalia to Algeria.
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:39am
    - Morrissey
      
      Ha, its cowardly army—the most cowardly army in the world, according to Norman Finkelstein—can’t even control the tiny West Bank.
      
      The IDF is incompetent as well as cruel…
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UIh72LWvg8
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:52am
      - Brito
        
        Morry, Morry!!!
        
        …”can’t even control the West Bank.”
        
        The WB would cease to exist, as would Gaza and every other hating state in the ME if the Israeli people ever took their restraining hand of the leash.
        
        It would be short, sharp and bloody. Focus on groping because your posts are relatively entertaining there.
        
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        December 14, 2017 10:25am
      - realityczech
        
        Israel is a cravenly cowardly nation that is never held to account and hides behind the goyim of the USA.
        
        The pinnacle of the IDF is harassing civilians in the land they invaded in breach of international law.
        
        “The WB would cease to exist, as would Gaza and every other hating state in the ME if the Israeli people ever took their restraining hand of the leash.”
        
        Israel would cease to exist as a racist nationalist state if not for goyim zionists backing it up Brittle.
        
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        December 14, 2017 12:27pm
      - Brito
        
        I vote for all those unsung goyim Zionists (capitals please RC) heres. Long may they see the light and the truth and the way.
        
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        December 14, 2017 2:37pm
      - realityczech
        
        Brittle, ultimately the Zionist’s actions will harm Jews. I’m with the ultra orthodox on that one.
        
        History gives us a hint on what to expect when large numbers of people are oppressed over time. The best thing the USA can do for Jews is stop the war on Islam. Though I am okay with supporting Israel’s self defense.
        
        Come around on Jesus birthday for a feed of Mussels and Pig on a spit, we can talk about it 🙂
        
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        December 14, 2017 5:28pm
      - Brito
        
        Do I have to bring my own pork…now that would be offensive?
        
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        December 14, 2017 7:55pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    History tells us that the Jews have been around that part of the world for about 4000 years. I think they have some claim to the spot.
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:51am
    - realityczech
      
      Sure they do. So do the Romans. So do the people who were there before the Jews.
      
      Shall we all claim land our ancestors occupied 4000 years ago like Jews have ? On that basis shall we all claim Africa ?
      
      I am not aware of anyone who claims Jews should not be able to live in the region, but nice strawman.
      
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      December 14, 2017 5:31pm
  - Inandout
    
    Hypocrite:
    1.
    a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
    2.
    a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements’.
    
    Morrissey, you use Israeli products numerous times, every day. For a start get off your Israeli infested computer. Like most socialists you are very selective in who you hate, and your obsession with ‘groping’ is enough to worry any psychiatrist.
    
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    December 14, 2017 10:32am
  - flipper
    
    More shit from the pin brain.
    
    Israel is the only democratic State in the wider area…. and it encourages participation in Government by all religious group. To that extent, in Middle east (Liberia to Iran) it is a “rogue” State.
    Now remind us who was Hitler’s Middle Eastern supporter. Surely not the Grand Mufti.
    Geez zetev do you really believe the shit you eat and them vomit on sensible folk here?
    If you must do that. do go do it on the idiot sitting in the Speaker’s chair. BTW……. The worst speakers in the past 50 years- Wall, Wilson and Mallard. Arseholes all.
    
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    December 14, 2017 10:36am
stephieboy

Very much a part of defence contract issues a defeat to and Alt right Trumpland after Steve Bannon’s ( Trump’s too ? ) ill conceived choice of candidate ,

Alabama Election Results: Doug Jones Defeats Roy Moore in U.S. Senate Race

https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/alabama-senate-special-election-roy-moore-doug-jones
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December 14, 2017 9:45am
Hugh Pavletich

… Something else the previous National – led government should have done … but failed to ! …

,,, Why ? …

Posted at … https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/12/general_debate_13_december_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-2099016 … and … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/12/auckland-house-sales-slump-2010-lows/#comment-3016837 … with extensive further posts on both threads …

Public sector boss warns escalating CEO pay is ‘not sustainable’ | Stuff.co.nz

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/99812129/public-sector-boss-warns-escalating-ceo-pay-is-not-sustainable

The Government is considering law changes to control top public sector pay, after it emerged another major organisation had ignored advice and hiked its chief executive’s pay.

State Services Commissioner Peter Hughes revealed the Accident Compensation Corporation board, headed by Dame Paula Rebstock, had gone against his advice when it awarded chief executive Scott Pickering a $20,000 pay increase, almost three times what was recommended.

Pickering, who now earns around $830,000-$840,000, was given a $50,000 pay – rise in 2016. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
State Services Commission singles out the Super Fund, ACC and Telarc for ignoring its advice on CEO pay rises | interest.co.nz

https://www.interest.co.nz/business/91377/state-services-commission-singles-out-super-fund-acc-and-telarc-ignoring-its-advice

The Government is considering legislation changes to curb some sky-rocketing state sector chief executive salaries.

The Minister of State Services Chris Hipkins is looking into how the Crown Entities Act could be changed to “put the brakes on” escalating salaries.

His move follows a State Services Commission report disclosing the pay (including bonuses) state sector CEOs received in the 2016/17 financial year. … read more via hyperlink above …
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December 14, 2017 9:47am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Canadian house prices fall for third straight month – MacroBusiness Australia
  
  https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/12/canadian-house-prices-fall-third-straight-month/
  
  By Leith van Onselen
  
  Just weeks after Moody’s warned that Canada’s (as well as Australia’s) housing market (and banks) were at risk, Teranet has reported its results for November, which recorded its third consecutive fall in Canadian home values, let by Canada’s biggest city Toronto: … read more via hyperlink above …
  
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  December 14, 2017 12:07pm
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    … Excuse the typos within this article … some corrections by Pavletich …
    
    Partitions and units may deliver up to 180,000 dwelling spaces … Chris Hutching … The Press / Fairfax NZ
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/99848810/partitions-and-units-may-deliver-up-to-180000-dwelling-spaces
    
    … extract …
    
    … The idea has been scotched by house affordability researcher Hugh Pavletich who said it was ill-conceived and would make no difference to pricing. …
    
    … concluding …
    
    … However, researcher Pavletich (said) such measures ignored the far greater problem of land affordability.
    
    “On the outskirts of Auckland development land costs about $2 million a hectare and in Christchurch about half that. The prices should be the equivalent of rural land at $20,000 to $50,000 a hectare.
    
    “The sole reason is the zoning lines on maps put there by planners.
    
    “Ideas like partitioning are just a distraction.
    
    “But after 15 years or more lobbying about this I’m incredibly encouraged by the new Government’s acceptance of doing away with urban boundaries and funding infrastructure though bonds, and that comes from an old Tory,” Pavletich said.
    
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    December 14, 2017 4:15pm
Stars And Stripes

Robert Hohua to serve at least 17 years in prison for murder of partner Marie Harlick
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=
“Mongrel Mob enforcer Hohua’s lengthy criminal history – 78 previous convictions – and the fact he was released on bail, twice, for an assault on Harlick before the murder”.

Very fashionable to publish stories these days saying what a good Mum the victim was and how her kids are heartbroken she is gone etc.
Well sorry but if you move yourself and your children in to a relationship with a Mongrel Mob member with a long history of violence then your credentials as a capable parent are severely questionable.
Maybe if people starting using more discretion about who they move in with these cases would stop appearing with such monotonous regularity.
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December 14, 2017 9:47am
rightoverlabour

I see the nasty “Let’s denigrate the Dead” ztev has replaced W of O with the “Lets kick off GD with a stupid comment”. I don’t engage with that useless Troll. It’s a lot less frustrating just downticking and possibly adding a polite “Fuck Off” (with or without suitable clarification on how quickly, with whom and some added adjectives on his mental demeanour). Trying to have a rational argument is futile. There are many intelligent posters here that don’t share my views, but I am happy to engage in a reasonable debate. Now in case you do respond ztev, I’ll add my response here first. Fuck Off.
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December 14, 2017 9:49am
- sooty
  
  Are you sure ztev is no WoW.
  
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  December 14, 2017 12:07pm
BeaB

Is it just coincidence, or the effect of sitting so closely to that extraordinary set of gnashers, that inspires Winston to resort so often to horse imagery? Like ‘don’t look a gift horse in the mouth’.
Yesterday he was at it again.
Perhaps it’s a coded message.
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December 14, 2017 9:56am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh, once Winnie’s got the bit between his teeth, wild horses won’t be able to stop him.
  He is a dark horse and better not change riders in midstream.
  Hell’s teeth, what if he’s backed the wrong horse?
  He’ll be chomping at his bit if he has to flog a dead horse.
  
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  December 14, 2017 10:46am
Keeping Stock

It would seem that there are still no “clean” cyclists in the world. Chris Froome has been found to have feet of clay, and four of the last five Tours de France are now looking dodgy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2017/12/13/chris-froome-could-stripped-vuelta-title-urine-test-revealed/

Is it simply coincidence that 80% of the British cycling team require asthma medication, or does Salbutamol mask the presence of other drugs in the system?
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December 14, 2017 10:19am
- marcw
  
  I agree, it seems that in order to become a winning cyclist, all you need to do is suffer from ‘severe’ asthma requiring medication during events. As did Wiggins – coincidence?
  
  My solution – if any contestant in cycling is consented one of those special medication passes, then that same medication should be available by choice to all the others competing. This would even out any ‘non-advantage’ they may gain.
  
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  December 14, 2017 11:10am
- ztev
  
  have you got the final or draft report of that KS?
  
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  December 14, 2017 6:02pm
Jack5

Rachael Smalley (of “NZ women are lardo’s” fame) backs a register of children up to age five and compulsory State inspection of them. Did even the Stalinists, the Nazis, the Maoists do that?

What an airhead Smalley is.

This statement is almost as stupid as her visit to the first wave of the Muslim invasion of Europe and demanding NZ open its doors to thousands of these people.

As I recall, her trip was sponsored by World Vision, and Smalley even beguiled John Key into promising the Government would match cash raised by contributors for the wave of people pouring into Europe.

Have a look at this link and see how John Key might have been beguiled (he wouldn’t have noticed a pony tail even if the lady had had one):

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11527197

Smalley supports State control of kids to age 5:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11959365
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December 14, 2017 10:20am
- Rodney Randall
  
  Smalley blows hot and cold but generally cold.
  She can be non PC on some issues and painfully PC on others.
  
  She will not be missed from the airways.
  A nice post in Nigeria would be right up her alley.
  
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  December 14, 2017 10:28am
  - Brito
    
    With that grin on John’s face and that shocked look on RS face I think someone is having more than their pony tail tugged in that photo.
    
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    December 14, 2017 10:39am
- Paulus
  
  I though that every child born is recorded with the Registrar of Births etc.
  Is this not so ?
  In Italy every person is registered not only with various specific authorities but has an overall Tax registration number for life from birth, or say immigration.
  You cannot get anything without your registration.
  
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  December 14, 2017 11:04am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    I am sure they are if they get a birth payment
    
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    December 14, 2017 10:30pm
Jack5

Britain wakes up late – very late – that multiculturism has down sides.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5175283/Ofsted-head-Faith-schools-undermining-British-values.html
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December 14, 2017 10:41am
- Digmen1
  
  Sadly Britain is not waking up.
  A few people have been saying this for years.
  Too many sickly white left liberals in power.
  And its not PC to complain or raise the issue.
  
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  December 14, 2017 11:41am
Jack5

So-called “child refugee” from Afghanistan who raped an murdered the daughter of a German EC official turns out to be 33 years old!

The bleeding hearts who are pushing child refugees into the West need to be held to account.

A thought: are the Stephieboys really in their 70s?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5175101/Child-refugee-raped-murdered-girl-19-33.html
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December 14, 2017 11:28am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Sweden is discovering that many of their “child” migrants are adults.
  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42234585
  
  http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/09/sweden-83-tested-refugee-children-actually-adults/
  
  It appears children /youths get faster asylum processing than adults.
  
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  December 14, 2017 11:39am
- Inandout
  
  Horrible what happened to that poor girl, but even EC officials are now being affected. German MPs with young children must be worried, because this attack won’t be the last. The Muslim attacker looks typical of his religion; brain dead.
  
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  December 14, 2017 11:42am
  - sooty
    
    Our youthful PM wants to bring in manus island refuges. They are only going to be a drain on justise, medical, social society. Taxpayer is going to pay forever!
    
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    December 14, 2017 12:04pm
    - ztev
      
      Same offer was made by John Key, never heard a peep out of you then.?
      It made it twice or repeated it as you lot say. To both Gillard and Turnbull.
      
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      December 14, 2017 5:51pm
      - Grant
        
        So is it a bad offer then ztev?
        G
        
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        December 14, 2017 8:04pm
Digmen1

How many Palestinian refugees went to Gaza in 1967.
How many are there living there now.
I’m not sure, But I know that its a HUGE increase.
Why do Arabs have so many children when there is no work.
Who is paying for these people to exist (probably the UN and the EU)
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December 14, 2017 11:37am
- GoVege
  
  “Why do Arabs have so many children?”
  Same reason as all sexist cultures. …to keep their women barefoot and pregnant. 🙂
  
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  December 14, 2017 1:29pm
  - softail 1450
    
    vege,why do women have smaller feet than men ?
    
    so they can get closer to the oven.?
    
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    December 14, 2017 1:36pm
Manolo

Hanging on to power and life:
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2017/12/13/sen-john-mccain-hospitalized-side-effects-cancer-treatment/949880001/
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December 14, 2017 11:49am
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo, but not these Republicans faced with similar circumstances ?
  
  http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/01/the_gop_of_2017_is_the_most_extreme_party_coalition_since_the_civil_war.html
  
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  December 14, 2017 3:05pm
UpandComer

Had to do a long passage on euthanasia. Within ten years, guaranteed, without doubt, NZ will be euthanizing people under 50 with purported mental illness. That is the first order logic of the theory, and this has played out in every single jurisdiction that euthanasia has been instigated, without exception. The only ones where it ‘appears’ it hasn’t, is due to the Kafka-esque practice of either not collecting any data, so there are no immigrant rapes in Sweden, or by re-defining everything until words have no meaning, so in Belgium the suicide rate hasn’t increased, but all the 34 year old women with anxiety get euthanised.

This is how it will go – terminal illness, short period until death. Terminal illness, longer and longer periods until death. Wider scope of terminal illness. Non-terminal physical with high degree of pain and debilitation. Non-terminal physical with less and less degrees of debilitation and pain. General physical with subjective pain. Existing category of mental illness. Subjectively determined pain.

Add to that a downward sloping curve with age on the Y axis and number of euthanising procedures on the X axis.

It is absolutely bizarre to state that there has been no slippery slope. NZ is not a magical land where the laws of physics don’t apply, even under this government.

Human nature, economic incentive, how our common-law works and the first order logic of self-determination theory preclude the effectiveness of any form of ‘safe-guard’. It will be discrimination to deny any entity with the capacity for ‘self-determination’ the ability to ‘control their own bodies’. So the age will come down and down, and the scope of officially recognized catalysts for euthanasia will widen and widen. There is always a compelling individual exception to any ‘safe-guard’ who is possessed of self-determination. Always. Particularly as the proponents of euthanasia take power in all relevant institutions.

Euthanasia is inherently commodifying. The calculus for individuals will be based on utility and economics. In addition, far from promoting ‘personal choice’ self-determination theory is anti-freedom. Death will be almost entirely a matter of professional evaluation, not personal preference.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3120835/Belgian-GPs-killing-patients-not-asked-die-Report-says-thousands-killed-despite-not-asking-doctor.html

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/22/the-death-treatment

Euthanasia requires the subversion and antithesis of the Hippocratic oath.

Euthanasia assumes the self-determination of a human individual is not modulated by any factors beyond the individual will.

I really do not understand how self-professed smart people can’t understand the profound force, influence and incentive exertion that is catalysed by euthanasia.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/7/assisted-suicide-laws-can-be-abused/ – here’s one example of the economic ramifications.

The economic and social ramifications of euthanasia are absolutely deadly. In our culture, we separate people from their families at the earliest opportunity in the interests of ‘self-determination theory’. So a 4 year old can cut their dick off, and in Canada, if the parents protest, that child will be taken from them by ‘child protective services’. It is no different to a depressed old economic burden being euthanised by a doctor because the insurance company will no longer pay their bill, without the families knowledge. Or, of course, at the families’ behest.

The individuals in the National party voting for this bill should be profoundly ashamed of themselves. The evidence on the matter is very clear.

In Belgium, as in every other jurisdiction we have euthanasia, the number euthanasia’s goes up and up every year. In Belgium, 10% each year, 4-6% of all total deaths.

Euthanasia is the fulfillment of the death-wish of some of our most neurotic minds. I find it unbelievable that the psychopaths like Dr Kevorkian and in the Frankfurt School have been so successful in a mere two generations in literally bringing about the suicide of a civilization.
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December 14, 2017 12:07pm
- Peter
  
  so in Belgium the suicide rate hasn’t increased, but all the 34 year old women with anxiety get euthanised
  
  Oh really?
  
  I really do not understand how self-professed smart people
  
  …believe such utter nonsense without fact checking.
  
  Try this:
  
  The number of reported euthanasia cases increased every year, from 235 (0.2% of all deaths) in 2003 to 1807 (1.7% of all deaths) in 2013, not 4-6% as you quote. In any case, these people were mostly terminally ill, so dying, regardless. Most of those receiving euthanasia were dying of cancer.
  
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  December 14, 2017 12:59pm
  - UpandComer
    
    https://www.ieb-eib.org/en/document/report-2016-euthanasia-in-netherlands-488.html
    
    Sorry – make that 4% in the Netherlands, going up 10% every year.
    
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2641773/Five-people-killed-EVERY-DAY-assisted-suicide-Belgium-euthanasia-cases-soar-27-cent-year-alone.html
    Oh look euthanasia increased by 27% from 2013-2014. But hey ‘safeguards’.
    
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3141564/Belgian-doctors-healthy-woman-green-light-die-euthanasia-suicidal-thoughts.html
    
    This woman wasn’t terminally ill.
    
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/22/the-death-treatment
    
    Neither was this woman
    
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/17/health/belgium-minor-euthanasia/index.html
    
    Was this kid 80?
    
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2261985/Belgian-twin-brothers-killed-doctors-choosing-euthanasia-able-again.html
    
    Were these 45 year old guys terminally ill?
    
    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/sex-abuse-victim-in-her-20s-allowed-by-doctors-to-choose-euthanasia-due-to-incurable-ptsd/news-story/33d67a4ee6e5980d0c8f6c38147f1576
    
    Was this woman really not afflicted with depression?
    
    Euthanasia ignores vast swathes of science. Neuroplasticity, neuro-modulation, and practically all the science that is valid which exists on social influence.
    
    Here is the reality. The people who support euthanasia, in general, know nothing about the operation of the policy in other jurisdictions; nothing about the principles behind the policy; nothing about the economic and social impacts; nothing about the science related to the matter; nothing about the mechanics of how the relevant laws actually work in practice; nothing about the impact the law has on institutions; nothing about the impact on other freedoms, such as freedom of religion and conscientious objection, and nothing about how the law is used by very unpleasant people to obtain great amounts of power and privilege in society at the expense of the vulnerable.
    
    The supporters of euthanasia rely on anecdotal apocryphal stories and the emotions that these stories create. Well there are just a handful of very cursorily obtained stories of young beautiful people getting euthanised because of this bullshit policy and the absolutely bullshit principle behind it, which is bullshit.
    
    Self-determination does not mean ‘freedom’ and it does not mean ‘personal choice’. It means, in practice, the opposite.
    
    The passage of this bill from an oleaginous parasitical soyboy weasel like the Act boy, whatever his name is, will be a profound tragedy. He’s always been an ofay twerpish wanker, but I thought he at least could look at things clinically. Nope, he’s using this for the most profane political purposes, and still no one will vote for him, because he’s a prize cunt.
    
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    December 14, 2017 5:47pm
    - rightoverlabour
      
      The irony of the pro euthanasia argument is that if this law is passed, convicted murderers and terrorists will be safer than the terminally ill.
      
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      December 14, 2017 6:04pm
    - Peter
      
      Your Belgium figures are not correct. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27620630
      
      Secondly, you’re missing the point. Euthanasia is for people who are already near death. They don’t have an option of rising, lazarus like, and going and playing tennis. The fact that numbers are increasing means…what? Population growth? More people suffering from terminal illness? Greater acceptance of Euthensia over needless suffering?
      
      There will always be edge cases. So what? There is no perfect scenario. At present, we have people who suffer terrible deaths…for what? Someone’s invisible friend?
      
      Here is the reality. The people who support euthanasia, in general, know nothing
      
      Some people choose a dignified death over needless, drawn-out suffering. That is their choice, not yours.
      
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      December 14, 2017 8:45pm
- Brito
  
  Here’s a better model for you to consider and run screaming to the hills about.
  
  Just swap the word dog for human and you’ll be able to develop a function which will horrify all those who fear the crumbling of human decency and the erosion of social care and love.
  
  And anyway, when you look at the functions who determines the drivers, they’re the areas which are subjective while the outcome is meant to be mathematical, cold and objective.
  
  Case Study 5.6 page 121
  
  https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=EUQrBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=euthanasia+described+as+a+mathematical+solution&source=bl&ots=Sk2PZajI7m&sig=TLIeag33sfCf5IAyGoew9onebe4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBxOrTvYjYAhXBtpQKHagIDIsQ6AEIOzAD#v=onepage&q=euthanasia%20described%20as%20a%20mathematical%20solution&f=false
  
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  December 14, 2017 3:50pm
Tricati

I see Chippy is now looking at a major review of the NCEA, as its seems the assessments may be to hard, or the tutors not up to delivering them.
So, we now have the removal of ‘National Standards’, possible reduction in NCEA assessment standards, a recent report suggesting new teachers don’t have the skills to converse with, and or deal with, some children in class and need more ‘on-job’ training to become proficient. This with the $9.5 million-dollar lolly scramble to get teachers into Auckland, and load and behold, bring in teachers from overseas which seems against the immigration reduction policy.
Is this not the biggest dumbing down of our education system purely to appease the Education unions?
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December 14, 2017 12:18pm
- Stars And Stripes
  
  No the biggest dumbing down was the introduction of NCEA in the first place.
  Totally subjective worthless assessment system which was only introduced to fudge the whole issue of pass and fail.
  
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  December 14, 2017 12:27pm
  - Kimbo
    
    You wouldn’t say the “biggest dumbing down” was when a previous Labour Minister of Education, Russell Marshall abolished UE exams? School Certificate followed shortly after. May have been after you left the hallowed halls of Mt Roskill Grammar. 😉
    
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    December 14, 2017 12:40pm
    - Stars And Stripes
      
      Yes I did School Certificate, Sixth Form Certificate and Bursary in real subjects like science and maths,none of this gay NCEA shit they have now like drama and transgender studies.
      Mind you all those wogs at Mt Roskill Grammar now probably could not even pass those subjects.
      Probably most will end up as camel jockeys or witchdoctors at the local flea market.
      
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      December 14, 2017 12:57pm
- Digmen1
  
  When I go to work I do my job even if it is hard.
  Teachers have just gone down another notch in my estimation.
  They were already at -1.
  
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  December 14, 2017 1:04pm
- Philview
  
  I also read Hipkins comments this afternoon. NCEA Level 1 may be scrapped. Too much assessment and work for teachers. A future with no benchmark educational assessments? Pol Pot would like the sound of it!
  
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  December 14, 2017 5:06pm
realityczech

Non Jews are not human and belong to a different taxonomy and don’t have souls [sic] !

This is the real and only reason some people view Jews with suspicion. It is the contempt with which they treat non Jews.

Here’s a fascinating piece in Haaretz on Satmar Jewish attitudes, stemming from the recent murder of a Brooklyn landlord named Menachem Stark, 39, who is said to have been generous inside the Satmar community but ruthless outside it, treating tenants and others with contempt…“What you do to the goyim is not the same as what you do to Jews,” said Samuel Heilman, …“you don’t see commonality with people who aren’t Jewish. There is a completely different taxonomy of people. There are Jews and then there are non-Jews, who don’t have souls.”

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/01/haaretz-orthodox-taught/
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December 14, 2017 12:43pm
- mandk
  
  Implying that Satmar Jews are somehow representative of Jews in general is like presenting Westboro Baptist Church as representative of Christians.
  
  Your Jew-hatred is obvious, Kea, and I can’t imagine anyone who is not similarly hate-filled would ever be persuaded by you. You’re too much of a klutz for that.
  
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  December 14, 2017 1:31pm
  - realityczech
    
    mandk
    Implying that Islamists are somehow representative of Muslims in general is like presenting Westboro Baptist Church as representative of Christians.
    
    Your Muslim-hatred is obvious, mandk, and I can’t imagine anyone who is not similarly hate-filled would ever be persuaded by you. You’re too much of a klutz for that.
    
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    December 14, 2017 5:33pm
    - mandk
      
      care to show me where I have implied that Islamists are represetnative of Muslims in general?
      
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      December 14, 2017 6:26pm
- softail 1450
  
  reality,I have no bias either way with Jews and the problems they supposedly cause worldwide but recently watched a docco of a Christian man walking down the street in an orthodox Jewish area with a large silver cross around his neck,he was treated very badly to say the least including physical assault and being continually spat on.
  not a good look,,,,,,,
  
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  December 14, 2017 1:52pm
  - Inandout
    
    I must phone my airline and ask if Jews are to blame for the extra security and costs associated with their fares.
    
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    December 14, 2017 2:10pm
  - stephieboy
    
    softail 1450 , the source for the doco ?
    
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    December 14, 2017 3:01pm
  - realityczech
    
    ” docco of a Christian man walking down the street in an orthodox Jewish area”
    
    Brave man.
    
    Softy, I actually prefer Jews to the other Abrahamic cults, but I have no time for religious zealots of any flavour. The ones who piss me off most are those who try and camouflage their bias like mandk.
    
    Brito is an actual Jew, but at least he is straight up with his cries for Nuking/Gassing/Shooting non Jews for even minor perceived wrongs.
    
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    December 14, 2017 5:39pm
    - mandk
      
      You’re lying, Kea.
      
      You clearly hate Jews more than any other religious groups.
      
      Can you show examples of where you have said things about other religious groups that are as hateful as some of the things you have said about Jews?
      
      Do you need me to quote you on your Jew-hatred?
      
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      December 14, 2017 6:30pm
      - realityczech
        
        1. Why do you not target people for Muslim hatred ?
        2. By far the worst things I have said are about Christians. Why the double standards ?
        3. You are not going to heaven for defending the Jews
        4. There is no god.
        
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        December 14, 2017 6:34pm
- Brito
  
  Yawn…boring…same old same old.
  
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  December 14, 2017 2:39pm
ztev

This ones for the Whanganui shopkeeper

“The 33-page secret coalition negotiations document can remain under wraps, the Chief Ombudsman says.

Peter Boshier released his final ruling on the document on Thursday, which said he did not class the document as “official” and Jacinda Ardern was entitled to refuse requests to release it”

So much for clinging onto false hope the draft wouldnt reflect the final one.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/99852550/ombudsman-says-prime-minister-entitled-to-refuse-release-of-coalition-document
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December 14, 2017 12:49pm
- mandk
  
  My goodness, ztev, you are being a bit dimmer than usual today.
  
  Whether or not the document is official or not is entirely beside the point.
  
  The real point is that the Deputy PM said there was a whole lot of detailed stuff in it and that it would be released. The PM reneged his behalf.
  
  Why is the CoL so reluctant to release it?
  
  It must be extremely embarrassing.
  
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  December 14, 2017 1:22pm
  - GazzaW
    
    I have it on good authority that it contains individual assessments of the flavour of Winston’s boot polish as judged by the Labour negotiating team each morning of the coalition discussions.
    
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    December 14, 2017 11:34pm
softail 1450

mandk,I believe national have a copy and will cause havoc with it in the new year.
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December 14, 2017 1:58pm
- mandk
  
  I look forward to that.
  
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  December 14, 2017 2:48pm
  - sam green
    
    So young and so full of sh………schadenfreude!
    
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    December 14, 2017 5:26pm
    - Brito
      
      Do you ever say anything other than these little one liners?
      
      What’s in your heart Sammy? Let the adults hear and maybe then we’ll let you wear long pants.
      
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      December 14, 2017 6:18pm
    - realityczech
      
      Spam attacks the messenger when facts do not support his vile communist ideology of hate and envy.
      
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      December 15, 2017 12:28am
Manolo

Shame on the Australian government:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/12/two-faced-on-israel/

Is the sole democracy in the Middle East to be supported or not? The latest vote is not merely critical of Israel but will encourage its enemies and have implications fundamental to its very existence. Australia’s failure to support Israel and the US must have been discussed beforehand at a high level – possibly even at Cabinet level. A phone call to New York from Canberra would have settled the matter.

Did the Prime Minister forget what he had said? Is it just another example of the confusion that has characterised every campaign he has been involved in, or is it all just the mouthings of a man who believes deeply in nothing?
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December 14, 2017 3:09pm
Manolo

An excellent article in The Spectator. Our PM gets mentioned:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/12/red-meds/

In November’s Lancet, editor Dr Richard Horton has liberated his esteemed medical journal from the shackles of science by inviting us to resurrect Karl Marx as the saviour of medicine. His paean to Marx is a confusing blancmange of naïve romanticism and sophomoric cliché. Marxism, he pleads un-ironically, offers a ‘critique of society’, a ‘method of analysis’, a ‘call to engage’, and more than a legacy of famine, genocide and failed states.

Thanks to a feelings-based educational system born of the Frankfurt School, youngsters of Western democracies have little knowledge of the murderer’s row of socialists who successfully ‘changed the social order’. Pol Pot, Mao and Lenin are names largely absent from contemporary history curricula. Horton chooses NZ’s very green PM Jacinda Ardern to paraphrase in support of his thesis. That the millennial Ms Ardern should be considered a ‘go-to’ authority on such matters should trouble Kiwis and Marxists alike.
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December 14, 2017 3:12pm
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo , what evidence does the writer have that Cindy is actually ignorant of Pol Pot , Mao and Lenin and she actually plans a Stalin type Five year or a Mao great leap forward for these fair Isles ?
  
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  December 14, 2017 3:23pm
  - Manolo
    
    I’m not defending the writer, only bringing to the readers’ attention the article’s proposition that many youngsters, gullible and callow youth, have no idea about the criminal nature of socialism.
    
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    December 14, 2017 3:29pm
  - Longknives
    
    “But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao You ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow..”
    
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    December 14, 2017 5:16pm
Rodney Randall

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/99841753/cathedral-will-go-back-to-synod-vote-if-council-rejects-10m-grant

Online poll in article:
Would you be happy to pay $72 towards Christ Church Cathedral’s restoration?

6.600 votes

64% say NO

What will Dalziel do?

Shaft the rate payers.
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December 14, 2017 3:57pm
softail 1450

jeeeeeeeeeeez that Tracy Martin is a screaming skull fishwife,she was screaming that loud I thought her voice was about to crack.
God, imagine being partnered up with that maniac,I feel for her husband the poor bastard, probably beaten nightly.
11 1
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December 14, 2017 5:28pm
realityczech

I have to share this gem. Wikipedia on the Mongrel Mob. Look how white the sample mobster is in the photo. He looks like he belongs in the tiny minuscule white pride groups.

“The gang began with a group of mainly European youths from Wellington and Hawke’s Bay in the 1960s.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongrel_Mob
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December 14, 2017 6:05pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The lads and lasses down the road are pretty brown.
  
  Mongrel Mob
  The Mongrel Mob (MM) first appeared in Gisborne as early as the 1970’s with their traditional
  presence associated to the Gisborne suburb of Kaiti, the township of Wairoa and a few small satellite
  villages.
  http://www.stct.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/RUIA-PROJECT-Final-Report-2013.pdf
  
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  December 14, 2017 6:33pm
  - realityczech
    
    Wiggles, thanks for pointing out the bias and lies of wiki with some truth.
    
    2 1
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    December 14, 2017 6:36pm
Johnboy

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/houses/99811170/whats-a-new-state-house-really-like-tmaki-introduces-the-prototype
As one commenter said…”Its amazing what the government can do with other peoples money” 🙂
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December 14, 2017 6:07pm
- realityczech
  
  A couple of observations:
  
  The houses we normally associate with the term – state houses – were also pretty flash in their day. The examples in your link look about right.
  
  We did not pay baby farmers to have kids back then and being a single mum was frowned upon. State houses were for poor families, not taxpayer sponsored whores.
  
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  December 14, 2017 6:14pm
  - Johnboy
    
    I lived in one in Naenae till I was 18 mate. There were fuckall Murri living in them then. You could leave your door unlocked all night in Naenae in those days.
    Draw your own conclusions when you look at my link. 🙂
    
    7 0
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    December 14, 2017 6:23pm
    - realityczech
      
      Johnboy. Exactly my point.
      
      The Maori poor were looked after by their family. Now the Maori don’t look after their family and loudly demand YT does it for them.
      
      Its not a race thing though and I am okay with social housing. Just not okay with aspects of our current system where we actively sponsor an underclass.
      
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      December 14, 2017 6:28pm
      - Johnboy
        
        It worked in Sept 23rd this year mate…all the Murri seats. Everyone has their price and Labour knows that Murri come cheap! 🙂
        
        3 1
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        December 14, 2017 6:35pm
      - Longknives
        
        Just don’t offer them fruit or vegetables! That is somehow a ‘Racist’ insult..
        
        Only KFC and Woodstock Bourbon for our precious ‘Tangata Whenua’ it seems-
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/99767397/Give-generously-but-please-no-tinned-tomatoes-or-chickpeas-say-charities
        
        7 0
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        December 14, 2017 6:41pm
      - nasska
        
        A few points:
        
        1) When JB was in his prime many of the state houses in Naenae were actually “pool houses”. In those days state servants were expected to move for promotion & often didn’t buy or build until they had greased their way up the totem pole. They paid a percentage of their salary in rent which was often far more than state house tenants but it ensured fairly egalitarian neighbourhoods.
        
        2) There was full employment so the streets weren’t cluttered with low life planning their next “burg”.
        
        3) Maori were encouraged into home ownership by low interest loans secured against tribal lands. So long as they owed money on the mortgage their voting rights on the land were exercised by the Dept of Maori Affairs. It was a win/win situation. Maori owned their own homes & with it came a pride of ownership. It also enabled development of tribal land into farming & forestry.
        
        Of course in our brave new world such schemes would be considered paternalistic & anyway the land looks quite pretty in gorse.
        
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        December 14, 2017 6:45pm
      - Johnboy
        
        I spotted that Longknives!
        KFC, BK and Maccas are missing out shitloads here by not offering tinned versions of their junk food. 🙂
        
        5 0
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        December 14, 2017 6:47pm
      - Johnboy
        
        Oh fukoff nasska. My old man was a wharfie that spent all his money at the TAB and Urban Crosbies hostelry! He did give me one pearl of wisdom that I have never forgotten…” Son. If I’d put all my money in the bank instead of on the horse’s I’d be a rich man now”. I’ve never been in a TAB in my life! 🙂
        
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        December 14, 2017 6:53pm
- nasska
  
  …..”What’s a new state house really like?”…..
  
  New ideas, new houses but occupied by the same overbreeding shit.
  
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  December 14, 2017 6:21pm
- waikatogirl
  
  Flash bro! Couldn’t understand the hysterical screaming about National demolishing the horrible old state houses that were way past their best. Not a peep from the naysayers about the dry, warm and fully insulated replacements.
  
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  December 14, 2017 6:58pm
publicwatchdog

Any mainstream media asking these questions?

“Subject: Auckland Transport CAS-642483-D1P0N4 – Transdev and CE Information

Dear Ms Bright

We acknowledge receipt of your open letter to Mr Shane Ellison dated 11 December 2017, requesting the following information:

1) How much have PRIVATE transport provider Transdev received in PUBLIC subsidies from Auckland Transport, on an annual basis since Transdev were awarded the AT rail contract to run Auckland urban passenger trains.

2) How much have PRIVATE transport provider Transdev received in PUBLIC subsidies from New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) on an annual basis since Transdev were awarded the AT rail contract to run Auckland urban passenger trains.

3) How much money have you, Shane Ellison, as new CEO of AT, the delegated authority to spend on awarding contracts.

4) A copy of Auckland Transport’s ‘corruption risk assessment’ – (or the like) regarding your appointment as CEO of Auckland Transport (AT), given that you have just left the employment of Transdev (Australia), and Transdev have the AT contract to run Auckland urban passenger trains.

We are processing your request according to the provisions of the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act 1987 (LGOIMA). Under the Act, a response must be provided within 20 working days of receipt of a request, however, due to the Christmas holiday period set by the Office of the Ombudsman, a response will be provided to you by 30 January 2018. This is the maximum response time and we will endeavour to respond to you sooner.
….”

Penny Bright
‘Anti-Corruption whistle-blower’.
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December 14, 2017 6:44pm
- Johnboy
  
  Have you paid your rates yet darling? Or are you still bludging off all the other poor folk in Auckland that do their bit for society:)
  
  9 1
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  December 14, 2017 6:54pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Since its Christmas, Merrily Fuck Off,
  
  7 0
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  December 14, 2017 7:04pm
- nasska
  
  Never mind Penny. Only one more bath until Christmas. 🙂
  
  6 0
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  December 14, 2017 7:22pm
  - Johnboy
    
    My sheepdips still available for good looking ewes nasska. 🙂
    
    7 0
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    December 14, 2017 7:26pm
    - nasska
      
      Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
      
      https://www.nbr.co.nz/sites/default/files/styles/home_article_small/public/story_imgs/Penny-Bright.jpg?itok=MzgZeamq
      
      You poor sick bastard! 🙂
      
      7 0
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      December 14, 2017 7:31pm
      - Johnboy
        
        Well I must admit I’ve never seen a yellow rosette for “Best in Show” previously nasska! 🙂
        
        6 0
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        December 14, 2017 7:36pm
  - RF
    
    God. Is it 2020 already. Time for her bath.
    
    Pass me the smelling salts as there is a terrible stench in the room
    
    5 1
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    December 14, 2017 8:18pm
    - sam green
      
      The old “poo you smell” argument. Works for children aye.
      
      3 7
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      December 14, 2017 8:53pm
      - nasska
        
        Not quite like that Sam. Penny first made political capital out of necessity after she’d spent the rates money on overseas “Anti Corruption” seminars. The first sanction she incurred was when Watercare restricted her home water supply to a litre a minute instead of the rate payers version of about 70 litres.
        
        Naturally it became a matter of KB interest after someone who shall remain anonymous queried the hygiene regime at Chateau Bright.
        
        Five hours to run a bath would tend to promote BO that would stop Hannibal from crossing the Alps. 🙂
        
        8 0
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        December 14, 2017 9:07pm
      - sam green
        
        A well retorted reply. ?
        
        2 3
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        December 14, 2017 11:24pm
Johnboy

Somehow I feel quite happy that the Chin-Wilsons get fuck all! 🙂
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/99845890/how-the-minibudget-affects-five-kiwi-families
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December 14, 2017 7:19pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Couldn’t agree more.
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:49pm
nasska

“If you were shipwrecked on a desert island, what’s the one thing you’d like with you Johnboy?”

“A sheep.”

“Nice. All that lovely roast lamb, mutton broth and some delicious chops will keep you going for ages. Plus the fleece will keep you warm, you can make tools from the bones and you could use the skin for a hammock.”

“Oh yeah, I hadn’t thought of that.”
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December 14, 2017 8:30pm
Jack5

An American politician accused of “forcing himself” on a young woman five years ago has committed suicide. The police apparently decided not to proceed at the time, but accusations had been revived by a “centre for investigative reporting.”

The politician left a note claiming he was the victim of “fake news”.

The sex allegations sweeping the West are becoming a mass hysteria, similar to the allegations of sex abuse in child-care centres that swept the Western world a decade or two ago.

Those allegations culminated in suicides, or, as in the notorious Christchurch creche case, destroyed careers and lives and led to an innocent person being imprisoned.

I’m not arguing all the accused are innocent. However, the wave of accusations – widespread geographically and widening to ever new fields, plus the sense of righteous outrage radiated by associates of some accusers, indicates that some sort of crowd phenomenon is occurring.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/judge-and-jury-fake-news-us-politician-facing-sexual-assault-claims-commits-suicide/news-story/4f70f1471e4f2469cc27c3893c4ac2f2
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December 14, 2017 8:56pm
- Jack5
  
  If the accusations about this guy – in a link from the link I posted above – are true, he was one great wacko.
  
  But that doesn’t change the fact that there has been an international surge in accusations of sexual misbehaviour. Why are they all surfacing almost at once? Why is the old precept of “innocent until proven guilty” being abandoned?
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:06pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Many of the accused are admitting that they were abusers…
    here’s one who outs himself before any accusations have arisen
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11959863
    
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    December 14, 2017 9:33pm
    - Jack5
      
      There’s an interesting take in the US Tablet (found through ALDaily) that postulates that what is going on is a feminist drive to enforce a new inter-sex culture of “affirmative consent”.
      
      This seems to boil down to: “You’ll have to seek verbal consent before you kiss a woman or touch her in a sensitive place, or anywhere.”
      
      Women being more likely to be silver tongued, this should give an edge over men to lesbians.
      
      An extract from the Tablet article:
      
      For many years, women sought to persuade the rest of society to adopt the doctrine of affirmative consent in law review articles and popular journalistic books and Tumblr accounts. When it was introduced to the world in the 1990s as the formal policy governing sexual relationships at Antioch College, it was widely mocked and derided as the reductio ad absurdum of feminist overreach. Even today, a general plebiscite would likely find a robust majority of the general public, and indeed, at minimum, a significant minority of college-educated liberals, or even self-identified feminists, rejecting it. But students of social change and the law will tell you that often the changes we later regard as fundamental, such as the attainments of the civil rights movement, were always at first counter-majoritarian, pushed through by legal mandarins conjuring hitherto unsuspected rights embedded in our fundamental law. Later these coups acquire the aspect of historical inevitability. Students of social change will tell you that sometimes coercive force is necessary to impose a norm unreachable through other means.
      
      And a link to the article:
      
      http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/251148/farewell-to-a-scoundrel
      
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      December 14, 2017 9:45pm
- EAD_TWO
  
  Do you know why “the wave of sexual allegations” is sweeping the West?
  
  It’s an orchestrated campaign to destroy normal female/male relations particularly amongst Whites. The vast majority of these “claims” are nothing but men hitting on women (although there are a few leeches) as has been par for the course for centuries.
  
  The real threat facing White women is not from cocksure or leary men, it’s from the tsunami of 3rd worlders who are committing actual violent and deadly crimes against females.
  
  The propoganda we’re being inundated with is nothing but an attempt at perception alteration and advancement of the Coudenove Kalegri plan.
  
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  December 14, 2017 9:50pm
  - Jack5
    
    The link you point to highlights that Coudenove Kalegri was a Freemason.
    
    Do you really think that the Masons are behind multiculturism and people gatecrashing borders?
    
    A quick internet search indicates people as diverse as Winston Churchill and Anders Breivik were Masons. That doesn’t seem to suggest any coherent political view for the lodges.
    
    EAD, do you advocate following Hitler and Stalin by banning Freemasonry?
    
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    December 14, 2017 10:07pm
Rodney Randall

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/68804410/video-christchurch-mayor-lianne-dalziel-says-sorry-to-the-east

A flash back to an Oscar winning performance by Chch Mayor Lianne Dalziel.

It is rumoured that she keeps a special “Tears for the East” jar in the council chamber, for those difficult moments, when she needs to garner sympathy from the plebs. There is perception, rightly or wrongly the she is an hysterical, volatile creature that despises being challenged publicly and will go to great lengths to silence dissenters.

We may get a glimpse of another special ‘performance’
next week, when the C.C.C. go to a publicly excluded ‘special’ meeting to vote in favour of honouring Dalziel’s ‘pledge’ to ‘gift’ ten million to the $420 million asset rich Anglicans.

7000+ have now submitted to the online Stuff poll.
64% say NO
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December 14, 2017 9:27pm
Jack5

Bermuda has tossed out same-sex marriage months after it was legalised.

Instead it will offer “domestic partnerships,” with legal rights, to same-sex couples.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/14/bermuda-to-end-same-sex-marriage-and-replace-with-domestic-partnership
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December 14, 2017 10:33pm

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