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November 10, 2017 12:00pm by David Farrar

Whack

You can’t spend three years railing against the impact of migrants on NZ and then claim to be upset when this is pointed out.

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Comment141

NZ Politics
migration

Comments (141)

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cmm

“You can’t spend three years railing against the impact of migrants on NZ and then claim to be upset when this is pointed out.”

You can if you’re a petulant teenager.
59 2
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November 10, 2017 12:03pm
- Don the Kiwi
  
  Actually, Labour have been doing this for NINE years – not three.
  
  47 2
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  November 10, 2017 12:12pm
  - Sam_Bro
    
    Some things I know about New Zealand. About half the 5 million approx population come from Europ. Some Māori, some Asian, some pacific isles. And some others. So mostly migrants.
    
    I was just a boy when the 2 millionth kiwi was called out over the radio. I never even imagined we’d get this far so soon. So we needed to import an extra 1 or 2 million workers to keep up the vitality of the population. Now we must live with in those limits.
    
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    November 10, 2017 6:34pm
davidp

Chris Bishop’s points are all true. It has been obvious for a while that Labour are an anti-Asian anti-immigrant party that appeals to little-NZers. They’re also only in power because of Winston Peters, who was described as an actual “racist” by a Green co-leader. It is a disgrace that the Greens support two racist anti-immigrant parties.
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November 10, 2017 12:07pm
- Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
  
  “anti-immigrant party that appeals to little-NZers.”
  
  The only reason rightwing elites want Dirt World invaders is for the cheap labour.
  
  This is why Trump stormed into the Whitehouse, the “deplorables” sent a message to the Republican Cucks and the other Swamp creatures that the game is up.
  
  7 29
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  November 10, 2017 12:41pm
  - realityczech
    
    Herr Herr !!
    
    9 5
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    November 10, 2017 12:45pm
    - DifferentPerspective
      
      Godwinning loses the argument
      
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      November 10, 2017 11:10pm
- Bob R
  
  Chris Bishop is either an ideologue or an idiot. Increasing the population by the size of Tauranga every few years obviously has had a massive impact on house prices, infrastructure load, traffic congestion etc. Politicians who try to bury this discussion under accusations of bigotry are charlatans.
  
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  November 10, 2017 1:37pm
  - chuk
    
    Bob R – you posted as a reply to davidp. Do you actually have anything to rebut what he has stated?
    
    I agree with each of davidp’s statements. I actually agree with most of what you have said too, though obviously not the bit about “Chris Bishop is either an ideologue or an idiot”. That may seem odd but possibly it derives from my failure to link your response to the fact that davidp was commenting on what Bishop had reported on what Ardern had said.
    
    Do you have anything to say about Ardern’s hypocritical comments versus the actions of the Labour party?
    
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    November 10, 2017 5:22pm
- Philview
  
  We now find out that Peters was never going to go with National. He manipulated the situation for massive advantage. Imagine doing a business deal like that, I suspect a Director would find themselves in court.
  
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  November 10, 2017 4:54pm
marquess

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
And, yet, pointing out the nats record on child poverty, Auckland housing prices and Auckland congestion is met with “it’s not a problem, not national’s fault, and national will fix it”.

What’s good for the goose, etc etc 😉
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November 10, 2017 12:12pm
- PaulL
  
  Yes, you’re quite right that Labour pointed out all those things (even though they were inaccurate in terms of the ability of the National govt to control most of them v’s the Labour-controlled Auckland council).
  
  And under the sauce for the goose rule, now that Labour are in government, they should totally expect National to point out things that are actually true.
  
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  November 10, 2017 12:15pm
  - marquess
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    If the sauce really is good for the kiwiblog goose, I don’t expect it to be too salty when the failings of the nats are gleefully fixed under the current government ?
    
    2 58
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    November 10, 2017 12:22pm
    - KevOB
      
      When the blind walk it is best to go with a stick. A knowledge of where they are going is helpful too. Children in nappies prone to tantrum need to keep their nanny close by.
      
      26 1
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      November 10, 2017 12:36pm
    - UpandComer
      
      Even with all the cash labour has. They won’t fix the problems. Not only will they not fix them. They will make them worse.
      
      31 1
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      November 10, 2017 12:39pm
    - lifesgood
      
      It may interest you to know, marquess aka Labour party staffer (rostered), that I am loving this new government. I haven’t had so much fun and laughter in years. It is so entertaining watching a bunch of ignorant numpties making complete fools of themselves. Keep up the good work.
      
      34 1
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      November 10, 2017 12:49pm
      - flipper
        
        Yes, up to ma point I agree.
        The problem is that those fuckwits make NZ look like a bunch of Hillbillies or worse in Australia, UK and US. Those folks also have the internet as well ………….
        
        18 1
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        November 10, 2017 1:41pm
      - Brian Marshall
        
        I’m glad you’re enjoying the games. These lot are scaring the bejesus out of me.
        I hope that what they said during opposition goes the way of TPPA, and they do the right thing when it counts.
        
        13 1
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        November 10, 2017 1:51pm
    - PaulL
      
      If I believed that Labour’s policies had any chance of fixing the problems that NZ have (which are quite minor by international standards) then I would have voted for them. I find it very unlikely that any of these problems will be solved by their policies, and very likely that other things that were under control will be broken by this government. So I look forward to tracking Labour’s record very closely with you – noting that I’ll be measuring by outcomes not by intentions.
      
      35 0
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      November 10, 2017 12:50pm
      - Bob R
        
        Aiming to add 45,000 non-citizens a year doesn’t seem like a good way to ease pressure on house prices.
        
        12 2
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        November 10, 2017 1:56pm
    - Mobile Michael
      
      Is that why the PM failed to affirm the Kiwibuild targets yesterday? Is that how Labour plans to ‘fix’ National’s so called failings – keep on promising that they will do something, eventually, later, just be patient…
      
      33 0
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      November 10, 2017 12:58pm
      - Rich Prick
        
        I think Cindy finally pulled her calculator out and discovered 30 houses a day ain’t going to happy, not even with lashings of fairy dust.
        
        20 0
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        November 10, 2017 1:51pm
    - kiwicambo
      
      I’m so looking forward to child poverty being fixed. Especially since there was none when we had the last labour Govt
      
      18 1
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      November 10, 2017 2:01pm
- rangitoto
  
  “And, yet, pointing out fake news”
  
  Fixed.
  
  18 1
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  November 10, 2017 12:20pm
- labrator
  
  Child poverty keeps getting waved about like it’s dramatically got worse under National. This data from Otago Uni shows it’s pretty constant for the last 20 years and if anything non-income measures of hardship have gone down…
  
  Auckland housing? Yep, I agree, it’s been a constant criticism of National that their “hands off” market driven sentiment and over use of immigration to drive GDP has been a bad thing (hence Winston First getting voted in).
  
  Auckland Congestion? The lack of headline articles about the Western link tunnel shows what an overwhelming success it has been. The MSM were lining up to show what a failure its been before it opened and silence since. I’m also guessing you don’t live in Auckland because it’s pretty hard not to have noticed the Victoria Park Tunnel and the rail tunnel being put up Albert st. Things have got a lot better! (Also if they’d laid off the immigration, it would have helped here too).
  
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  November 10, 2017 12:25pm
  - KevOB
    
    Child poverty is an invention of Labour’s PR firm together they have done NZ a disservice in the international arena.
    
    39 0
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    November 10, 2017 12:37pm
    - labrator
      
      Not just Child Poverty but their homelessness stats are contemptuous lies. They’re not being much more honest on the state of our rivers either…
      
      The interesting thing after looking at those Otago stats is that if child poverty hasn’t really budged in 20 years, what does the Minister of Child Poverty think she can do differently? I suspect in 3 years time she’ll have done nothing and hoist by her own petard.
      
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      November 10, 2017 12:48pm
      - PaulL
        
        The underlying problem here was when National let NZ Stats change the official definition of homelessness to something that nobody else in the world uses, and that will give us a far higher measure than any other place in the world. What on earth did the responsible Minister think was going to happen? Talk about self inflicted….
        
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        November 10, 2017 12:51pm
      - labrator
        
        Yes, ostensibly it was to allow better measurement of success on their social housing initiatives. It never should have referred to “homelessness” as you can be living in a house and now be counted as homeless… The person behind that concept should be fired. The intent was right, execution lacking.
        
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        November 10, 2017 1:40pm
      - KevOB
        
        Same crowd responsible.
        
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        November 10, 2017 3:37pm
      - MH
        
        hoisted by her pet cat actually
        
        4 1
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        November 10, 2017 4:45pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Sure, Labour is going to solve congestion /sarc
    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/11/judith-collins-make-phil-twyford-look-like-complete-fool/
    
    11 1
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    November 10, 2017 1:41pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Child poverty ? Completely fake news. In fact it is labour style policies that drive child poverty and that is deliberate. Labour and the left want people in poverty because those people are more likely to vote for them.
  
  The last think Labour and the Greens want is for people to be able to stand on their own feet, they might start to question why a government needs to control so much of their lives. So the left’;s policies are deliberately designed to cause and maintain long term dependence and poverty, because that’s their route to and ticket for continues power.
  
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  November 10, 2017 12:29pm
  - lifesgood
    
    If we had had some decent journalists in NZ everyone would be well aware of the data. Unfortunately they are to a man/woman, lefties, pushing an agenda,except for the owner of this blog, that is.
    
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    November 10, 2017 12:51pm
    - DifferentPerspective
      
      No no no! They all describe themselves as “independent” so that’s all right then!
      
      It’s a journalistic way of speaking. For instance a journo might say “Oh damn, I “independent” my coat behind.
      
      or
      
      If you take the first turning on the “independent” you’ll be on the Great South Road.
      
      or
      
      In political terms, I consider myself “independent”
      
      We’re being lied to by the MSM. All day, every day, on every issue.
      
      1 0
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      November 10, 2017 11:14pm
- thedavincimode
  
  How’s progress on the babies dying from poverty? Will jaspinda have time to sort this out when she’s back from scoffing spring rolls in Vietnam?
  
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  November 10, 2017 12:45pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    I’ve been stepping over the corpses piled up along Lambton Quay for weeks now waiting for Cindy to fix the problem.
    
    17 1
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    November 10, 2017 1:54pm
- john1234
  
  Well, Marquess, it’s well known that under the preceding Labour government house prices rose much faster than they did under the National government. As resident Labour apologist will you apologise for that?
  
  18 1
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  November 10, 2017 12:48pm
- Longknives
  
  There is no ‘Child Poverty’ in New Zealand..
  
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  November 10, 2017 1:07pm
  - RF
    
    Poverdy…. there fixed it for you Longknives.
    
    You must keep up as the commie chic is rewriting the dictionary.
    
    12 0
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    November 10, 2017 1:43pm
  - calendar girl
    
    I can imagine some families living in ‘poverdy’, and I feel for those who are in that state through no real fault of their own.
    
    What I find ridiculous, however, is the deliberately emotion-laden term “child poverty”. Children very rarely live independently of their families. If the creative word-smiths of the left are prepared to (a) speak of, (b) demonstrate and validate, and (c) provide acceptable political solutions for: “family poverty”, then they will deserve our respect and – where their arguments prove valid and rigorous – our appreciation.
    
    But to me, those talking loosely of “child poverty” generally undertake simplistic political point-scoring at the expense of purposeful action to protect children living below the minimum standards of life in NZ that our country should be prepared to accept.
    
    Government is about facts, and hard decisions based on those facts. It is not simply a ‘game’ to be played by theatricals who fancy themselves playing the harps and violins.
    
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    November 10, 2017 4:04pm
  - jcuk
    
    But there is ……. not because of lack of money but a lack of self-discipline in what family income is spent on.
    
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    November 11, 2017 10:26am
- Sideoiler
  
  And, yet, pointing out the nats record on child poverty……
  
  There is no such thing in this country!
  
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  November 10, 2017 1:36pm
jims_whare

Don’t worry DPF, everyone knows that hypocrisy does not apply to the left.

Their unfailing shield of sanctimony protects them from such base smirches on their political character.
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November 10, 2017 12:13pm
- artemisia
  
  They are also shielded by woolly and warm fuzzies, to be expanded on ‘in due course’. Meantime, feelz.
  
  Hard to corral the fog. But that ‘due course’ is coming down the pike …
  
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  November 10, 2017 1:49pm
david in Aus

Too right. The self-righteous hand-wringing of the left, when one of their own Ben Mack, points out the far-right type rhetoric of the NZF/Labour government.
The Wall Street Journal description of Trump-like campaign of the Labour party was very accurate.
Unfortunately, when someone points out to the ‘left’ what they said. They become so defensive. I wouldn’t be suprised if they legislate for intellectual safe zones and label the pointing out of their hypocrisy as hate-speech.
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November 10, 2017 12:14pm
- Piniwi
  
  Hi david in Aus. The hand wringing poster is now the Commie Chicks stress moderator when in front of the cameras. It is an even bigger “tell” than all her usual ones.
  
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  November 10, 2017 3:31pm
Jack5

Is Bishop saying that National is the party of multiculturism?
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November 10, 2017 12:15pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  They had more women in cabinet roles. They had gay cabinet ministers. They has NZs first Muslim cabinet minister.
  
  National has a range of diverse views, but choose to focus on what unites us.
  
  27 0
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  November 10, 2017 1:01pm
  - Gabby
    
    And more commies slottyrotty.
    
    1 3
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    November 10, 2017 4:15pm
- flipper
  
  Well, idiot, the record speaks for itself.
  Reasonable and affirmative action v Labour/NZF lies and hyperbole!!!
  
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  November 10, 2017 1:47pm
lazza

Hoo bloody Ray!

No pussyfooting or “lets stay quiet” and “give em a break” from Our Chris.

Chris Bishop is currently the Lone Ranger when it comes to Sticking It To Them with some well researched facts and perceptive opinions.

The “two”/three faced L/NZF/G clusterf*ck deserves to be called out … ehh?
28 2
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November 10, 2017 12:15pm
- PaulL
  
  I totally hope that the way the National front bench will individually stake their case for replacing Bill English (who I suspect won’t last till the next election) will be via competing to see who can embarrass the new government the most. Chris is doing well so far.
  
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  November 10, 2017 12:18pm
  - PaulL
    
    What on earth about that would lead to downvoting? Is that lefties unhappy at the prospect, or did I not say what I thought I said?
    
    6 4
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    November 10, 2017 12:52pm
    - Don the Kiwi
      
      I think the call to replace Bill English was your downfall. 🙂
      
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      November 10, 2017 1:21pm
    - PaulL
      
      That wasn’t a call, it was a prediction. It’s hard to replace an incumbent prime minister with someone older. I think that National will need to make a generational change to get elected. I personally like Bill, but I suspect he’ll need to go.
      
      6 4
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      November 10, 2017 1:31pm
      - labrator
        
        Yep, at the next election, he would’ve been in Parliament for 30 years. I’m pretty sure that’s when DPF starts doing his “time to retire” blog posts…
        
        At the next election, Goff and King celebrate the 30th anniversary and 27th anniversary respectively of their first election to Parliament.
        
        So I think Goff and King will struggle to be seen as long-term Leaders.
        
        Like this one titled “Temporary leader of the Labour Party”
        
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        November 10, 2017 1:48pm
      - waikatogirl
        
        As proved by Cindy, inexperience is not a great choice for leader of this wonderful little country. Less years may be great when you’re a DJ or minor MP.
        
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        November 10, 2017 2:38pm
    - DifferentPerspective
      
      PaulL Clearly, you didn’t take your dose of the KookAid today.
      
      Have you heard the old story of the Emperor that wore no clothes? Well most of the two ticks blue rinse brigade who inhabit KB believe the Emperor was clothed in the finest, lightest of cloth and that only the stupid can’t see it. They also believe that “Two Time” Bill is really a leadership genius because he “won the FPP vote” (in an MMP election).
      
      You cannot criticise Bill for being a proven loser, or for running a crappy campaign, for being leaden footed in the debates, for being rather unintelligible when presenting government policy or for being just not a good leader. Thou shalt not speak ill of Bill!
      
      Hence the downticks.
      
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      November 10, 2017 11:20pm
  - flipper
    
    Aww crap.
    You have been reading and relying too much on the toxic one’s PR machine.
    
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    November 10, 2017 1:51pm
realityczech

This is consistent with a hard left National Socialist Party.
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November 10, 2017 12:15pm
Don the Kiwi

So remind us , marquess,

Which govt. – raised the benefit for the first time in 30 odd years.
-Got many beneficiaries back into work.
-started ‘Whanau Ora’ for the Maori people who were under-represented under Labour
– introduced lifting the minimum wage incrementally.
And the ‘Housing Crisis?’ This was caused by the Klark Govt., constantly pushing up the OCR so that mortgages were too expensive, and so caused a housing slump so that many developers slowed right down. I know – I was building houses at that time.
And then , of course, you have the useless Phool Guff running things in Auckland and has caused good land to be held back from house building.
You must have tunnel vision peering up your own posterior.
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November 10, 2017 12:19pm
- marquess
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  9 long years wasn’t enough time for the nats? Jesus, probably a good thing the impotents aren’t in power then!
  
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  November 10, 2017 12:24pm
  - Don the Kiwi
    
    Hahahaha.
    It takes more than a few words and hopeful wishes to gear up a whole building industry.
    Actually, it has done quite well for the past few years considering the Christchurch problem – except for Auckland under Labour Goof’s control.
    Still peering past the sphincter, are you?
    
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    November 10, 2017 12:39pm
  - labrator
    
    Agreed, you can’t blame this all on Clark. Sure, the OCR might have had the affect you claim but National piling on the immigration exacerbated it.
    
    10 2
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    November 10, 2017 12:39pm
    - Don the Kiwi
      
      You forget who controlled available land in Auckland – your Labour buddies, Brown and Goof.
      
      12 3
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      November 10, 2017 1:23pm
      - labrator
        
        your Labour buddies
        
        You talking to me champ? Cos you’re barking at the wrong car.
        
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        November 10, 2017 1:43pm
      - Don the Kiwi
        
        You’re the one in the driver’s seat, buddy.
        
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        November 10, 2017 5:37pm
      - labrator
        
        Might want to get your remaining eye checked out you’re obviously not reading what I’m writing.
        
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        November 10, 2017 7:09pm
  - scrubone
    
    House prices didn’t rise in Auckland until October 2011.
    
    1 5
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    November 10, 2017 1:25pm
- Jack5
  
  And gave a retirement job to a trainer of China’s electronic spies?
  
  And allowed the student visa rort to flourish?
  
  Bishop’s multiculturist views and celebration of diversity won’t get National enough votes to let it govern alone.
  
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  November 10, 2017 12:25pm
- Herodotus
  
  If only you spoke the truth, developers slowed down because the trading banks pulled all funding. If you only knew the industry, as you purport to 🙁 . But an observation. It is impossible to develop without the ability to finance. The same issue has been currently facing developers for the last 18 months, due to trading banks
  http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/315433/wary-banks-blamed-for-dropped-housing-projects
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/90419894/Banking-constraints-cutting-off-funding-for-premium-apartment-developments
  T”o help meet the requirement, Australian-owned New Zealand banks have been required to send fund across the Tasman, leaving them with less money to lend here. “
  
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  November 10, 2017 12:34pm
kowtow

“Reap as sow”

There’s that pesky New Testament again. A big part of our culture.
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November 10, 2017 12:24pm
Digmen1

It seems that Labour prefer PI immigrants and muslim refugees.

Just the sort of people we need to build up New Zealand – not.

Asian people generally work hard and do not like bludging or bludgers.
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November 10, 2017 12:26pm
- Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
  
  “Asian people generally work hard and do not like bludging or bludgers.”
  
  Asian’s create highly corrupt communities and societies, in other words almost ZERO SOCIAL TRUST.
  
  The only functioning liberal democracies built were done so by white societies because only white culture has developed HIGH SOCIAL TRUST.
  
  It is not a coincident that as whites steadily become a minority in their own homelands, democracy and support for it has deteriorated rapidly.
  
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  November 10, 2017 12:36pm
  - realityczech
    
    Guten Tag Herr Obergruppenfuhrer
    
    7 3
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    November 10, 2017 12:40pm
    - Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
      
      Hello Globohomo, enlighten us all on the wonderful democracies that asians produce.
      
      Oh you cant? Too bad, just keep screeching “fasshist!!!”, and hopefully no one will notice.
      
      #ITS OK TO BE WHITE
      
      3 14
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      November 10, 2017 12:46pm
      - realityczech
        
        Bet you are married to a Thai bar girl / ladyboy 🙂
        
        6 2
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        November 10, 2017 12:49pm
      - PaulL
        
        No, he just pays them by the hour. Not enough money to actually marry one.
        
        7 0
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        November 10, 2017 12:54pm
      - Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
        
        “realityczech
        
        Bet you are married to a Thai bar girl / ladyboy”
        
        Bet you only ever pulled tatted up blue haired fatties with a degree in Gender Studies. Who when they wake up and see the skanky beta male they let in between their fat thighs and deeply regret it, post on Faceberg about getting raped.
        
        #Believe Her #He For She #My Body My Terms
        #Stop Slut Shaming
        
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        November 10, 2017 12:58pm
      - Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
        
        “PaulL
        
        No, he just pays them by the hour. Not enough money to actually marry one.”
        
        Raised in a brothel by his mother, PaulL knows all about the trade.
        
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        November 10, 2017 1:06pm
      - Jack5
        
        Ahoy Kea! Are you playing 3D chess here with:
        
        ? Jazz-Hands McFeels and realityczech?
        
        Klever, klever parrot!
        
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        November 10, 2017 1:10pm
    - DifferentPerspective
      
      Is this KB or the Standard? Or is this the phenomenon of becoming what you hate reality – because you’re sounding terribly snowflaky with all the “rayyyyshissst” cries?
      
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      November 10, 2017 11:23pm
- lifesgood
  
  Except for the two Indian beggars who accosted me in downtown Auckland the other night.
  
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  November 10, 2017 12:54pm
- Gabby
  
  Or foreigners for that matter dicman.
  
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  November 10, 2017 4:25pm
Herodotus

Chris is correct in many of his points – It wasn’t our new immigrants fault that infrastructure investment was lacking. It was those in power that underfunded the infrastructure. You cannot increase NZ by 70k p.a. and have 43,000 additional cars being added to the Auckland roads every year and Do nothing about it !! Or you can, just so to achieve a surplus for a year and leave it up to those in the future to solve the problems that were unaddressed.
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November 10, 2017 12:27pm
- brett68
  
  Did Labour ever spend anything on infrastructure? or was it just all handouts?
  
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  November 10, 2017 12:48pm
  - Herodotus
    
    If only those in power built infrastructure not just to meet todays needs but foreseen future needs.
    An example that Jafa’s would appreciate, why was Puhinui Rd built as a single lane road. It is built within farming land so to have built it as 4 lanes would not have been too difficult.
    Do it right 1st time, to retrofit is costly in so many ways.
    
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    November 10, 2017 1:50pm
    - brett68
      
      I know Key made infrastructure a big thing when National was in, I just can’t remember Clarks Labour doing a lot, I could be wrong but from what I remember it was more about taxing righties so Clark could play Santa to all the lefties.
      
      The last nine years have been more about playing catch up.
      
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      November 10, 2017 3:41pm
      - Herodotus
        
        From memory
        Under Labour
        Sth Western motorway connection
        Tunnel sthern Bridge approaces
        Toll Rd Orewa Bypass
        Widening Newmarket Viaduct
        Te Puke By Pass Toll Rd
        Bypass Taupo
        National
        George Bolt Dr
        Widening of southern motorway
        Fibre
        Chch rebuild
        Act – All Auckland Council stuff ups !!
        Both
        Auckland-Waikato widening to 4 lanes
        Wellington north Motorway Improvements and widening.
        Remedials of leaky school buildings 🙁
        Some of the list will have been approve by one government and completed under another
        I may have got a few of these wrong !!
        
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        November 10, 2017 5:01pm
- Jack5
  
  FFS: the high immigration rate has put economic growth measured by GDP per capita almost to a standstill, and it has added absolutely bugger all to our exporting.
  
  For about 40 years NZ has been running balance of payments deficits – it isn’t paying its way in the world. And a defeated National is too thick to see it’s policy of pumping up the over-all GDP figure with high immigration has been disastrous. It would pull more people into the leaking boat.
  
  Where are the highly qualified immigrants? They’re not the horde that staff our pizza parlours, taxis, and petrol stations and run dairies every second city block.
  
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  November 10, 2017 1:15pm
  - brett68
    
    Jobs New Zealanders don’t want.
    It’s no different to all the Mexicans in the US, doing jobs that no one else wants to do.
    
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    November 10, 2017 1:26pm
    - Jack5
      
      The student-rort workers don’t want these jobs either. They just take them to enable them to get citizenship. Then either off to something better, or a rush through the back door to Australia.
      
      The student-visa rort has allowed the sale of NZ citizenship.
      
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      November 10, 2017 1:36pm
Manolo

Comrade Miss Arden knows how to fly with the wind. Ah, the duplicitous politician.
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November 10, 2017 12:36pm
Tanny

And the ‘Housing Crisis?’ This was caused by the Klark Govt., constantly pushing up the OCR so that mortgages were too expensive, and so caused a housing slump so that many developers slowed right down. I know – I was building houses at that time.

Govts love asset bubbles, regardless if they wear blue undies or red undies. Asset bubbles have positive effects for consumer spending as the sheeple feel richer and less concerned about their perceived future wealth. But what you have now, particularly in Australia and NZ, is an over-reliance on the FIRE sector and institutional barriers to maintain status quo. Of course, if it goes tits up, the sheeple will look to their leaders as scapegoats. They will silently accept their own collective stupidity.
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November 10, 2017 12:38pm
UpandComer

We have too many immigrants. We must avoid the problems in Canada, le 56% America, and Europe. The problem with Princess Intentions is that she is trying to combine cultural nativism with diversity rainbow PC religion. It doesn’t work. Its stupid. Its incoherent. Its contemptible. So even if I agree with her on immigration, I despise her fundamental hypocrisy and double-think. She deserves to be railed as a Trump wannabe. Only an induhvidual who thinks intentions are reality could somehow combine economic nativism with rhetorical immigrant fetishization. She intends to combine two irreconcilable concepts, so I suppose she just can.
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November 10, 2017 12:47pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  The problems in Europe are not caused by too much immigration. They are caused by uncontrolled and indiscriminate immigration. New Zealand does not have that, and nobody is suggesting we should.
  
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  November 10, 2017 1:15pm
  - Jack5
    
    Albert says: “The problems in Europe are not caused by too much immigration.”
    
    Tell that to Poland, Hungary, Austria, and to the resurgent Right wing extremists in Europe.
    
    Merkel the Mad unleashed the hounds of hell on Europe by opening the door to Middle Easterners and Africans.
    
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    November 10, 2017 1:24pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Yes, precisely. Europe’s immigration has been indiscriminate and uncontrolled. That is why it has caused problems there. That is why New Zealand is not doing the same, and nor is anybody proposing that it should.
      
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      November 10, 2017 4:15pm
Crisplion

Chris Bishop is absolutely right and Labour’s anti-immigrant dog-whistling dressed up as ‘infrastructure concerns’, or some such, is morally appalling. The “Chinese-sounding names” thing certainly revealed their true colours; I don’t think they are actually racist, but pretending to be for political gain is worse in some ways.

I’m an optimist on immigration. I back the marketplace of ideas to sell western enlightenment values to those who come and experience their benefits. That will only work if we uphold those values ourselves of course.
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November 10, 2017 1:01pm
- Jack5
  
  Does the phrase “anti-immigrant dog-whistling” imply that National regards as dogs those who oppose immigration rorts like the student visas?
  
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  November 10, 2017 2:12pm
  - Kimbo
    
    No.
    
    “Dog-whistling” is an analogy. Analogies have one point of comparison – in this case that the politicians give coded and/or implied messages – obfuscations and denials notwithstanding – that gain the support of those who have the itchy ears to hear. Not that concern over immigration policy in general makes one a dog.
    
    In contrast, your rhetorical question is an example of the logical fallacy of attempting to “frame the debate from outrage”. ?
    
    Especially as you also attempted to “move the goalposts” from the issue of the Twyford nonsense of ‘the Chinese names of real estate buyers’ as a reliable guide as to their nationality and/or residency status…to the legitimate matter of back-door residency by sub-standard education courses. Which National had already taken steps to address. ?
    
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    November 10, 2017 2:27pm
    - Crisplion
      
      Thanks Kimbo, an excellent description of the ‘dog whistling’ analogy.
      
      While, as my post above makes clear, I am a liberal on immigration, I accept that some people have fair concerns about immigration and that doesn’t make them dogs, xenophobes or racists. The thing that sickens me most about Labour’s stance is its brazen hypocrisy.
      
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      November 10, 2017 2:28pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Agreed.
        
        As a former member of the Labour Party, and as one who, like Rodney Hide still regards them – no matter what my current disagreements with some of their current politics – as the historical voice of NZ political conscience, Twyfords effort was disgraceful. Yes, questioning immigration numbers is a legitimate matter of public policy debate. For example, Norman Kirk cut immigration numbers from the UK in 1973 with the explanation, “our infrastructure cannot cope with the numbers”.
        
        But highlighting it by “Chinese-sounding names” on real estate agents’ lists?! Leave that shit to Winston Peters. Just think about that – arguably anyone with the surname “Young” falls into the category!
        
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        November 10, 2017 2:35pm
    - tom hunter
      
      Of course the thing I always say when I hear the accusation that some politician is “dog-whistling”, is the following:
      
      if you can hear the whistle – you’re the dog.
      
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      November 10, 2017 3:03pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Maybe because often the accusation of “dog-whistling” is a dog-whistle itself, looking for a partisan Pavlovian response from your ideological fellow-travellers against the thing/people you are criticising. Here’s an example:
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10831076
        
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        November 10, 2017 3:22pm
      - Jack5
        
        Kimbo your excuse for the description “dog whistling”- that it’s an analogy – doesn’t take us forward.
        
        If I call a person named X a cunt, that, too obviously is an analogy. But saying it is an analogy doesn’t absolve me from making the insult.
        
        If a politician accuses someone of dog whistle tactics, the politician is likening the target audience of that politician to sheep dogs.
        
        Kimbo, wriggle around all you like in Aristotelian-style logic, which then evolved for arguments in the bullshit world of theology and lingers on as a toolkit in school debates and perhaps in court rooms.
        
        I prefer Modern Logic, anchored in symbolism and clear and quick for far more complex situations than your old-style school debate stuff.
        
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        November 10, 2017 4:52pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Jack5
        
        Kimbo your excuse
        
        …sorry, is “excuse” a description or an analogy?
        
        …for the description “dog whistling”- that it’s an analogy – doesn’t take us forward.
        
        Not if you are determined to be wilful, no. No cure for that…
        
        If I call a person named X a cunt, that, too obviously is an analogy. But saying it is an analogy doesn’t absolve me from making the insult.
        
        You assume that accusing someone of dog whistling, or even a cunt is something for which absolving and absolution is necessary. However, in your continued wilful debate-framing you seem to ignore one possibility – they both may be accurate descriptions and/or analogies to the circumstances. For example, politicians who dog whistle to racist attitudes in the matter of racsim, or dishonest bloggers who debate-frame in a deceitful manner.
        
        If a politician accuses someone of dog whistle tactics, the politician is likening the target audience of that politician to sheep dogs.
        
        Now you are willfully insisting that an analogy has two points of comparison. If I say that a politician is the master of the situation…does that make us his or her…slave?
        
        Kimbo, wriggle around all you like in Aristotelian-style logic, which then evolved for arguments in the bullshit world of theology and lingers on as a toolkit in school debates and perhaps in court rooms.
        
        My, my that got personal quickly didn’t it? I note I didn’t fire the first shot. So just out of interest, are you always such a cunt when your views on immigration and attempts to skew the debate with variations of “have you stopped beating your wife” are called into question?
        
        I prefer Modern Logic, anchored in symbolism and clear and quick for far more complex situations than your old-style school debate stuff.
        
        Just as I prefer to call you, in this instance, and on the basis of your ad hominem that added nothing because you didn’t add additional relevant data or rebut anything…a cunt.
        
        Did I mention you are a cunt?
        
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        November 10, 2017 8:17pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Jack5
        
        You attempt to dishonestly manufacture false outrage at the phrase “dog whistle politics” to avoid the likely-correct assessment of your attitudes* reminds me of the exchange between David Lange and Margaret Thatcher. The former once quipped, as was his style, years later that trying to engage with Thatcher on NZ’s nuclear-free policy was like “being addressed by a Nuremberg rally”. When that was put to Thatcher, rather that address the critique contained in the analogy – she had not taken the time to listen to the constitutionally determined policy of the elected democratic New Zealand government – she resorted to the (probably faux outrage – Thatcher was a good actress when it counted!) “I take offense to that comparison”. Well, maybe she should have listened more, spoke less bombastically and in such a non-negotiable manner (Lange was always insistent our nuclear-free policy was “not for export”, and taken herself a bit less seriously as it sounds like Lange, courtesy of his wit, had her number…
        
        * to repeat, questioning immigration policy in general, and immigration numbers and quality in particular is not racist. Targeting and objecting to particular races, and characterising them by terms such a “flood/plague”…is.
        
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        November 10, 2017 8:58pm
      - Jack5
        
        Kimbo ? posts:
        
        ” … questioning immigration policy in general, and immigration numbers and quality in particular is not racist. Targeting and objecting to particular races, and characterising them by terms such a “flood/plague”…is.
        
        I guess, Kimbo, you would just call them c***s, demonstrating you don’t know a pudendum from a proboscis, a pussy from a placoderm.
        
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        November 10, 2017 9:10pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Jack5
        
        No, and that’s not the first time you’ve been wrong on this thread. But then I’m not one who, in the absence of a decent argument, introduced the word into the discussion in the first place.
        
        Also to use the word “dog” is not a necesarrily a pejorative. If in the sense of a “cur”, “mongrel” or “bitch”? Yes. But dogs are also noted for good characteristics such as their faithfulness. In the case of dog whistling it is their…exceptional hearing beyond the normal range. Nonetheless, yes, “dog whistling” is indeed a pejorative…about the one’s who are doing the calling, i.e., the politicians. Hence the phrase is dog whistling, not the dog whistle hearing.
        
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        November 10, 2017 10:44pm
    - calendar girl
      
      “Which National had already taken steps to address.”
      
      Yes, but it had done so rather timidly – “too little, too late” as they say. Your later reference to “back-door residency by sub-standard education courses” also exposes an element of conflicting structural priorities that contributed to the over-heating of immigration (and, to a degree, to ‘social balance’ distortions that arose).
      
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      November 10, 2017 5:06pm
      - Kimbo
        
        “Which National had already taken steps to address.”
        
        Yes,…
        
        Right, so we are agreed on the undisputed facts (which falsifies Jack’s assertion/question,”National regards as dogs those who oppose immigration rorts like the student visas?)
        
        …but maybe not necessarily on the editorial opinion in the rest of your post.
        
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        November 10, 2017 8:31pm
- Tanny
  
  I’m an optimist on immigration. I back the marketplace of ideas to sell western enlightenment values to those who come and experience their benefits. That will only work if we uphold those values ourselves of course.
  
  Middle NZ is so cosmopolitan they know their way around Asian culture, particularly the food. As for enlightenment, yes, the country is teeming with philosophers banging away on their keyboards.
  
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  November 10, 2017 5:27pm
RF

The vacuous Airhead is nothing but a liar.

She is showing her true colours proving that she is hypocritical little madam.

Her parents who are believed to be good people will be ashamed of her.
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November 10, 2017 1:04pm
Albert_Ross

It seems to be accepted that the National Government increased immigration, but how are they supposed to have done that? No Government can cause immigration. All any Government can do is allow (or not) immigration.

Yes, more immigration happened under National than under Labour. But that was not because immigration policy changed. If anything, immigration settings became more restrictive (eg, parental visas). The increase was because under National, New Zealand became a more attractive place to live and work and so more people wanted to move here, or not leave in the first place. Were they supposed to try to make New Zealand an unattractive place to live and work?
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November 10, 2017 1:14pm
- Jack5
  
  Albert Ross argues: “But that was not because immigration policy changed.”
  
  What about the student visa rort, Albert?
  
  And what value to NZ are former spy trainers from China?
  
  From this thread you would think National was purely the party of immigration “consultants”, real-estate agents, big-farm cow companies, and retired foreign spies.
  
  Time for a new Right-wing party.
  
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  November 10, 2017 1:17pm
  - Jack5
    
    Albert says “no Government can cause immigration”, only allow it.
    
    NZ once subsidised the fares of British immigrants. Surely that was causing immigration. In a similar way the student-visa-rort has caused immigration of young people who have mainly filled unskilled or semi-skilled jobs.
    
    Look at the list of foreign visa-application centres advertised in the link below advertised by Immigration NZ. Whether this facilitates or causes immigration is too fine a difference to be significant:
    
    https://www.immigration.govt.nz/contact/offices
    
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    November 10, 2017 1:34pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      The National Government did not subsidise the fares of any immigrants. I doubt any country is doing that now. That was a different time when priorities and needs were different.
      
      Are you saying that the student visa was introduced by National? Anyway, I bet you don’t have any evidence for your statement that young people coming here on student visas have “mainly” filled unskilled or semi-skilled jobs.
      
      Actually, the distinction between facilitating and causing immigration is an important one. In any case, are you saying that it’s only under National that this information has been provided?
      
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      November 10, 2017 4:13pm
      - Jack5
        
        Albert Ross’s 4.13 post includes:
        
        … I bet you don’t have any evidence for your statement that young people coming here on student visas have “mainly” filled unskilled or semi-skilled jobs.
        
        The evidence is all around us. Don’t you go to petrol stations? Don’t you buy pizzas? Don’t you frequent dairies that are obviously uneconomic but are port holes to citizenship. Don’t you hire taxis? Don’t you ever buy from cheapo shops staffed by young Asians? If you are in Christchurch, are you unaware of the Asians increasingly filling low-skill reserves jobs (I presume it’s the same in other cities)?
        
        The Minister of Immigration in the last National Government, a guy from Dunedin, did a lousy job. The student-visa rort has blown out in nine years under National, and National failed to end it.
        
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        November 10, 2017 4:26pm
  - Bob R
    
    National apparently are beholden to Chinese donors & voters, they cannot significantly reduce immigration.
    
    They are almost behaving like the Left on this topic.
    
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    November 10, 2017 1:51pm
MaxKolbe 16770

Opposition to immigration is the one area I agree with Labour on. So…. I must be a RRRRAAACIST
7 1
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November 10, 2017 3:41pm
Digmen1

It only takes two muslim immigrants/refugees to create one mass murder islamic terrorist years later.

Close all mosques, send all muslims back.

Long live Myanmar, Slovakia, Poland and Hungary
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November 10, 2017 3:53pm
- softail 1450
  
  Myanmar no longer has a big Muslim problem,if the UN thinks those people will be going back to their villages any time soon they are as stupid as we’ve always figured they were.
  
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  November 11, 2017 7:04am
treadingthemill

Close all mosques, send all muslims back.

The Bill of Rights.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM224792.html

15 Manifestation of religion and belief

Every person has the right to manifest that person’s religion or belief in worship, observance, practice, or teaching, either individually or in community with others, and either in public or in private.

17 Freedom of association
Everyone has the right to freedom of association.
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November 10, 2017 4:03pm
- Jack5
  
  A Bill of Rights can be changed: the dead do not rule the living.
  
  New Zealand was a free and viable country before Palmer introduced his “bill”.
  
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  November 10, 2017 4:33pm
- Digmen1
  
  1) Who says
  2) Islam preaches that they will take over the world and impose Sharia law. They are not allowed to associate with non muslims (not that I want them to)
  
  How does that sit with you?
  
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  November 10, 2017 9:03pm
minto57

Housing crisis what housing crisis
Rorting immigrants what rorting immigrants.
9 years of denial. Wasnt me govenor.
And all you whinging pricks are still doing it, post after post of self gratulatory diarrhea because you are still in denial and guess what you are not going to win next time up because every body will know your dirty little secrets by then.
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November 10, 2017 4:03pm
Piniwi

OMG all those immigrants and National was only able to get the unemployment rate down to 4.6%? All this at a time when tourist delivered more returns than the dairy?
Young Chris Bishop is sure to bring us a lot more of these gems and how the Toxic Trio twist and turn like a 3 headed snake. He must be reviling in the increased access he gains to raw data as an elected MP as well as being attracted to sequential key issues as they are exposed.

No surprise he had immigration at the top of his list as this is where the first back pedalling will start as reality kicks in for the new Administration. During the leaders debates the Commie Chick said they would need 2000 more tradies for KiwiBuild. Bill English queried this as even at that time Nationals they needed 20,000 to meet their construction targets already in place. Now Twitford says they need 60,000 more no doubt since they are struggling to get any of the 100,000 houses built in 3 years.

This is on top of all those needed for so many of their policies that will require so much more manpower or in their case girl power. The largest of these will as is their standard MO be substantial increases in public servants. The flow on effect with these make work schemes is more union card holding members and a drop in productivity. The down side is the evaporation of so many real jobs being the result of stalled industrial growth as expansion is shelved. The funny will start as the Toxic Trio start to spin their hypocrisy with new terminology to cover their butt.
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November 10, 2017 4:33pm
- Jack5
  
  Piniwi, National did not break the country out of 40 years of balance-of-payments deficits.
  
  Under National economic growth, measured by GDP per capita has virtually ground to standstill.
  
  And heh! I voted National – because there was bugger all other choice. Please Lord, send us a right-wing alternative for the next election. National so far seems to have learned nothing from losing power. Its promise remains: ram high immigration down the throats of New Zealanders, because National knows what’s good for them.
  
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  November 10, 2017 4:36pm
Muttonbird

Bishop is an ex-tobacco lobbyist and therefore has no morals.

End of story.
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November 10, 2017 5:27pm
- Tanny
  
  Bishop is an ex-tabbacco lobbyist and therefore has no morals.
  
  Philip Morris is a technology company now. PMI, BAT, JTI, Imperial…..they all pay well.
  
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  November 10, 2017 5:30pm
- ex-golfer
  
  Trevor Mallard has a conviction for assault.
  Ex MP Sue Bradford has multiple convictions.
  
  Whats your point?
  
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  November 10, 2017 5:48pm
Tanny

Most Kiwis don’t care if their sushi is made by Koreans masquerading as sushi chefs and running shops with names like “Kyoto.”
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November 10, 2017 11:23pm
Digmen1

But I don’t like it when I go to get a pizza or a burger and the place is staffed all by Indian students. So I walk away.

If I want Indian I will go to an Indian takeaway.
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November 11, 2017 6:35am
- dubya
  
  Too right, I won’t buy a burger unless it’s served by a Texan cowboy who lassoed the cow himself, or a pizza unless it’s served by an Italian stereotype named Luigi who bursts into spontaneous performances of ‘That’s Amore’.
  
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  November 11, 2017 2:55pm
softail 1450

digmen1 ,KFC is the same now ,the fact that it’s run by Indians isn’t a problem to us,it’s the blatant understaffing that pisses us off .
“fast food “will be a thing of the past if KFC have anything to do with it…
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November 11, 2017 6:56am
- Tanny
  
  Jacinda worked in a chippe (Pauline Hanson actually owned one). Surely that makes her more authentic. What would be equivalent in the Nats? Paula Bennett?
  
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  November 11, 2017 6:23pm
Digmen1

They are obviously under pressure to keep staff numbers down to keep their prices down.
It will only get worse with the new wage rises coming.
Labour don’t realise that wages are a huge percentage of a businesses costs.
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November 11, 2017 7:35am
BananaLlama

If National stupidly stick to their policy of mass immigration they will keep losing elections.
0 0
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November 11, 2017 12:34pm
Catons

Labour is pro death. They want to kill the oldies through euthanasia and kill the unborn young through abortions. The rest they want to tax tax tax.
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November 11, 2017 5:59pm

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Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

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