General Debate 26 November 2017

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Manolo

Investigating the investigator:
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-mueller-record-20171122-story.html
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November 26, 2017 8:06am
- Milhous
  
  Yes. The LA times has provided some excellent coverage of Trump.
  
  Good to see you endorse it.
  
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  November 26, 2017 8:21am
  - Milhous
    
    http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ed-trump-enough/
    
    I particularly like this editorial.
    
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    November 26, 2017 8:34am
    - Ed Snack
      
      If I were Trump I’d make sure to appoint a special counsel to investigate the Uranium One scandal and all those who made sure it was not prosecuted. Then I’d make sure to stage a 3 am raid on Mueller’s house to take all his computers and personal correspondence, in other words treat him just like he treated Manafort. Setup a Grand Jury and make sure he gets indicted along with Comey and as many of his Clinton loving crew of rogue prosecutors.
      
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      November 26, 2017 11:37am
- Ross12
  
  Like a lot of things going on in DC, the Mueller issue is a joke. Sessions told Congress recently there was not enough evidence that met the DOJ guidelines for appointing a Special Prosecutor to investigate the the Uranium One deal .
  Yet they have Mueller appointed because of what evidence? (If the guidelines Sessions referred to exist then we can be sure they were not met). Mueller is now going miles outside his remit to justify his appointment, in my view. Yet nothing happens to him. Under law he should have stepped down because of his association with Comey .
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:57am
Paulus Gnome

It’s Sunday Hugh, have a day off.
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November 26, 2017 8:08am
Nukuleka

I see over on the WO site that Mrs WO, usually the more sensible and less bitter of the pair, is having a nasty go at Nick Smith for having stated nothing more than the bloody obvious in a newsletter to constituents. Mr Smith points out the facts of the recent general election with voting numbers and percentages, in the process making comparisons with previous ‘victories’ of Helen Clark’s Labour governments. All he is doing is pointing out that the convention here and overseas is that the party with the largest percentage of votes usually has the right to form the government. (All we need to do is look at the ongoing attempts of Mrs 33% Angela Merkel to form the German government- that is the ‘convention’!)

There is nothing in Nick Smith’s letter that most National Party supporters would disagree with, particularly his conclusion that the outcome is a result of ‘Winston Peters saying he knows better than the voters’.

Incidentally, does anyone get the idea that things are not happy over on WO with the sudden and unexpected resignation of their chief moderating rottweiler ‘Pete’?
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November 26, 2017 8:08am
- Dave Mann
  
  I gave up reading WO a long time ago and frankly I haven’t felt a sense of loss.
  
  Why bother?
  
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  November 26, 2017 8:15am
- Milhous
  
  Who cares?
  
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  November 26, 2017 8:15am
- CHFR1
  
  WO fancies themselves as the local Breitbart, I am guessing the Steve Bannon version not the original. Unfortunately they follow the same daily format and it becomes boring. Factor in the Winston gaff and the wheels seem to have fallen off.
  Far from the WO take I see Nick’s (and I am no fan, stand down for the next election please Nick) newsletter as one to keep the faithful in the church. Right now I for one am happy it is JA dealing with WP not BE
  
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  November 26, 2017 8:18am
  - Victor Omega
    
    “it is JA dealing with WP not BE”
    
    Most people could easily manage the current gutless iteration of WP.
    
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    November 26, 2017 8:23am
    - Viking2
      
      Anyone seen Peters around?
      
      Watch this video and look closely at the man. He is stuffed. His face shows the depression and he runs out of breath when replying. Watch closely.
      
      Its about immigration and Tame does a good job of questioning Peters.
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/99205293/stacey-kirk-the-immigration-tightrope–a-uturn-is-risky-pressing-on-riskier-for-government
      
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      November 26, 2017 10:40am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Why is Peters always so reluctant to just give a clear answer? He’s never understood that he’s really speaking to Kiwis, not battling with the interviewer.
        
        He wouldn’t give a number of immigrants next year “because I’m not a soothsayer or a clairvoyant”, then Tame has to drag even the most basic numbers (planned immigrant reductions) out of him, pointing out that surely policies are based on demographic statistics.
        
        Very painful to watch.
        
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        November 26, 2017 11:50am
      - RF
        
        Peters is just a tired old man who will struggle to remain in coalition with the young school girl.
        
        I understand he has a gag order placed on NZ First MPs.
        
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        November 26, 2017 2:23pm
  - Jack5
    
    Whale has a good piece today on Helen Clark.
    
    Is some of the hostility here to Whale coming from a faction within National?
    
    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/11/nanny-state-back-looks-like-helen-clark/#more-347640
    
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    November 26, 2017 1:36pm
- SGA
  
  Nukuleka
  
  All he is doing is pointing out that the convention here and overseas is that the party with the largest percentage of votes usually has the right to form the government.
  
  But it provides no “right” to form the government, only a better opportunity. And National did enter into talks with NZF (although to what extent that was in good faith is debatable).
  National’s larger minority of votes is, in part, a result of no other party right-of-centre getting above 1% (from memory). For example, because of gifting ACT Epsom, ACT votes shouldn’t be wasted but people still didn’t vote for them.
  
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  November 26, 2017 8:31am
- gorse
  
  Whale oil pushing the barrow to get rid of Bill English again, wants Judith Collins, his “friend” as leader I suspect. Not sure what the problem is with Bill, says he had lost two elections, I thought he did as well as John Key, it was the Maori Party loss, then Winston Peters that sealed National’s fate – not Bill English. As leader rather than leap into every issue, it is better strategy to quietly let the opposition flounder and pounce on the big issues. Letting the team pick away at Labour, as they are, picking your time is the best strategy. It will be a sad sad day if the knives come out in the new year, National may well self destruct if they do.
  
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  November 26, 2017 8:31am
- gorse
  
  They are now an anti National blog. Not sure who they support, other than Judith Collins. Certainly swung to the left but they don’t realise it. The comments are lightweight now, looks like the thinking readership have left the blog and come over here.
  
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  November 26, 2017 8:34am
  - VicParking
    
    Left or been booted out for pointing out WO’s bias and errors in their articles.
    
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    November 26, 2017 9:26am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Or having perfectly polite, sensible comments deleted for no discernible reason. That’s what got to me.
      
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      November 26, 2017 12:50pm
  - Inandout
    
    Was that why the ape left?
    
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    November 26, 2017 10:39am
  - sam green
    
    The “thinking readership”? Hahahahaha???????????
    
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    November 26, 2017 8:25pm
- Chris R
  
  I thought the post about Nick Smith was petty and unfair as is the scuttlebutt about Bill English about to be knifed. If National do so and put either Kay or Adams in as leader then they’ll be the Opposition for several terms. (Although it may lead to a growth in ACT who would support National?) I am pleased to see the end of Pete Belt as moderator. He is the classic small man in the age-old equation ” Give a small man a large discretion, and the discretion will always die first!”
  
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  November 26, 2017 8:37am
  - SGA
    
    Although it may lead to a growth in ACT who would support National?
    
    Although would that growth come from NZF/Labour/Green voters, or from National itself?
    
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    November 26, 2017 8:48am
  - dime
    
    i didnt know that asshole had gone.
    
    will he still do his monthly love letter to wo/ begging for money post?
    
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    November 26, 2017 10:13am
    - Chris R
      
      I do not have any issue with a mediation regime, however I think Pete was guilty of over-playing his puny hand while doing nothing to ensure consistency. The blog has improved due to mediation, as a reading item, but thanks to Pete it has lost its most vital attractions which include irreverence, informality and immediacy. Now it is more like a fireside chat for the most docile members of society.
      
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      November 26, 2017 10:57am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        “The blog has improved due to mediation”
        
        Nah, freedom of speech, unless someone is actually threatening violence or just advertising. I even put up with a troll here making silly jokes about me using ‘rubber p**nises’. LOL.
        
        The down-votes can take care of uninteresting troll bull, like here.
        
        I like how David lets us express opposite opinions to his (e.g. CGT).
        
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        November 26, 2017 12:54pm
      - starboard
        
        Hmmm. This post smells of mikenmild (mm). I’ll be watching classic liberal with one eye.
        
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        November 26, 2017 3:54pm
      - treadingthemill
        
        I got accused of being this mikenmild person yesterday, now Classical Liberal is. Sometimes people just have similar views or even similar ways of speaking. There is an awful lot of paranoia and hysteria on this blog.
        
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        November 26, 2017 4:13pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Thanks TTS. I’m quite new around here, have only noticed mikenmild a few times.
        
        I’m surprised that there is any opposition to Freedom of Speech here. The laws against so-called ‘hate speech’ European countries are pushing through will be used against people who aren’t PC enough: people like KB commentators. Have a look at the Network Enforcement Law in Germany: huge fines for Facebook and other sites if they don’t remove ‘obviously illegal’ content quickly enough. No clear definitions, no testing in court: just an obligation to remove things some people just don’t like: https://cdt.org/insight/overview-of-the-netzdg-network-enforcement-law/
        This includes ‘Illegal Hate Speech’, which is very poorly defined and, as you may have noticed, particularly hurtful to PC snowflakes.
        
        Nobody on this site will be naive enough to believe CoL won’t whip through similar laws here.
        
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        November 26, 2017 4:34pm
      - treadingthemill
        
        @ Classical Liberal
        
        Thanks TTS. I’m quite new around here, have only noticed mikenmild a few times.
        
        I’m even newer I think, and have not seen any comments from the guy (assuming guy based on the mike in the nickname). Apparently because I mentioned the Crusader sacking of Constantinople, that makes me him, which is daft.
        
        Nobody on this site will be naive enough to believe CoL won’t whip through similar laws here.
        
        I can’t see New Zealand First being supportive.
        
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        November 26, 2017 4:46pm
  - Flash
    
    I don’t agree. Moderation has led to a much more pleasant environment on WO than that of this GD most days.
    There are a few people here who hog the GD’s every day, and they are just as off-putting as the spleen vented on WO.
    
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    November 26, 2017 11:03am
    - lifesgood
      
      Flash, I disagree. While I don’t think there is any place for outright nasty comments I like the fact that a person can express themselves on KB as if they were talking to a friend. For crying out loud you weren’t even allowed to say “bum” on WO. When I write comments I throw in the odd mildly rude words because that is how I talk, as do most people. As for incessant F**ks and blasphemy, no, don’t want them.
      
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      November 26, 2017 11:39am
      - Flash
        
        lifesgood (I agree) but what I dislike about GD here – especially in the evenings when the after-dinner alcohol levels have kicked in – are the ad homs which to my ear are pretty horrible.
        But hey, if that’s how people talk to their friends –
        
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        November 26, 2017 1:17pm
      - Chris R
        
        All blog owners are entitled to their unique degrees of moderation. The issue which ensued at WO is the inconsistency of the moderation.( Specifically Pete!!) The moderation became an ad-hominem exercise in of itself. But: If you don’t like it don’t go there, after all a blog is the property of its owner.
        
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        November 26, 2017 1:23pm
    - Classic Liberal
      
      “There are a few people here who hog the GD’s every day”
      
      I still want FoS, but is the number of down-votes to hide a comment 20? Perhaps make it just 15, so only true enthusiasts will bother seeing those comments?
      
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      November 26, 2017 1:01pm
- peterwn
  
  The rumour machine over at Whaleoil had moved into overdrive regarding National’s leadership especially with a focus on Bill, Paula and those associated with Michelle Boag – ie the ones WO dislikes for one reason or another. In any political party (except small cult outfits file NZF etc) leadership will always be open to question with anyone who thinks he or she can do a better job at being leader will be looking at the numbers. Helen Clark faced this issue and allegedly dealt with it by neutralising those who could be a potential challenge.
  This is just another day at the office for politicians – quite OK as long as they remember that the overarching objective of a political party is to get into power and if in power to stay in power.
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:05am
  - All_on_Red
    
    WO is right to dislike Boag. She’s a disaster with a litany of fuckups following her. The Nats should cut her off once and for all.
    He’s also right about how useless Smith and Bennet are.
    And because they have the support of Bill English then it’s only fair that his judgement is brought into question. As much as I admire his Admin skills he won’t be leading National into the next Election.
    They have next year to sort our succession.
    But basically English, Bennett, Smith and Joyce need to be gone in 2020.
    Oh and I don’t think Collins should be PM either. I like her but she’s not PM material. (Sorry Aunty)
    
    Edit- in terms of his blog I reckon the Mods are too severe but it’s his blog
    
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    November 26, 2017 9:33am
    - lifesgood
      
      The bunkum spouted about how bad English is is just that, Bunkum. He won more votes than any of the clowns now leading NZ, he is a fantastic debater in parliament and did an amazing job as MOF. I suggest you put aside your personal prejudices and judge him for what he really is. A good percentage of NZ thought he would be the best PM.
      
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      November 26, 2017 11:44am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        English comes across as pretty calm and sensible to me. PM material. Plus genuinely friendly, not just placing a gummy grin after stupid/unpleasant/evasive statements.
        
        I just didn’t like that he wanted to place no limits on immigration.
        
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        November 26, 2017 1:04pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of Bill, but his support for Smith and Bennett is a blind spot.
        
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        November 26, 2017 3:29pm
    - peterwn
      
      Michelle Boag and Bill English were the fall guys for National’s heavy defeat in 2002. Helen Clark’s abuse of SFO information supplied under the ‘no surprises’ policy was the final straw. In retrospect National did not have a hope in 2002 because National suffered serious damage during the Birch/ Bolger era while trying to implement further extreme Rogernomics policies. The Winston coalition was a poisoned chalice for National. John Slater was Party President then and was defeated by Michelle Boag as the membership considered she could do a better job. Despite the disastrous 2002 result the party had been rebuilding membership under Michelle’s leadership prior to the 2002 election and this process would continue after that.
      So this sets the background for WO’s (John’s son) extreme dislike of Bill and Michelle.
      So WO was a strong advocate of vote Winston ‘to teach National a lesson’ accompanied by a view that Winston would not go into coalition involving the Greens, in other words Winston would definitely go with the Nats and WO also thought that Winston would demand Bill’s scalp as a coalition prerequisite. And when there were unexpected consequences WO effectively ducked for cover then blamed Bill for the consequences as it supports WO’s narrative in trying to get rid of Bill. So there you have it.
      
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      November 26, 2017 5:55pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        I don’t give a damn about the Slater history. My comments aren’t in support of Slater.
        Name Boags successes- there aren’t any. One stuff up after another.
        Her performance in the AC election was dismal and it’s not the first time.
        She is incompetent and way past her use by date.
        Smith- well only a moron would say he did a good job with the RMA
        As for Bennett. Pissing off Winston with her stupid leak cost the Nats dear.
        These are the people who supported Bill with the numbers to become PM.
        I like Bill. I think he’s one of the finest and best Finance Ministers NZ has EVER had. He is a great debater, a good man and has had a great career- regardless of losing twice.
        But…the above are useless and have stuffed up- and that reflects on him. He backs them.
        It’s a mistake.
        Regardless of all your affection for him, he will not be there in 2020 and hopefully neither will Smith and Bennett
        Boag needs to stop meddling and basically fuck off.
        Don’t mistake my comment as being support for Slater. I am being objective and realistic.
        
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        November 26, 2017 8:18pm
- Morrissey
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Nick Smith, that enemy of democracy and fouler of our water. Only the most deranged and destructive dirty dairymen supported him….
  
  https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/l/f/i/z/s/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620×349.1lfi0o.png/1504501119377.jpg
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:39am
- flipper
  
  heh Nukuleka….
  The road winds back and forth with few able to identify all the idiosyncratic twists and turns.
  
  It all dates back to Daddy, who was a pretty good NP President, but was rolled by M Boag (forget her first married name). Boag worked for M Fay and D Richwhite.
  
  N Smith has a PhD in landslips. though insiders say he just scraped through, and was never highly regarded as a geologist. Nevertheless, Smith is well (better than most MPs or Ministers)l educated and an adroit political operator. Smith has had a long friendship with W English, N Guy and a couple of others, including R Sowry from memory. He (Smith) was notably unable to achieve most of the housing objectives set by J Key and W English. But that was due mainly to matters beyond Smith’s control.
  
  With the Hagar rubbish politics in NZ sank to a nadir. C Slater became the left’s target because he was seen as a major anti-socialist force (he was!) and an impediment to their victory in 2014. W O’s crusade for “pay back” was aimed at NP President P Goodfellow, several NP Board members, and several Cabinet Ministers, including, notably, J Key, W English, N Smith and S Joyce. But it was always obvious that the W O crusade had become “personal, not business”. Then in 2014 NP Divisions outside of Auckland made it clear to Key that a certain colourful Auckland MP was seen by many among the total NP Membership and the Electorate, as being toxic and an impediment to NP success in 2014.
  
  Fast forward to 2017 and the nation has now experienced an apparent unholy alliance with Mr No. So now we have two political operatives — one in the blogosphere, and the other a professional political bludger and apparent political liar.
  The victim (unintended one should allow) is NZ.
  
  Time to put it all to bed !!!
  
  It is well established that anyone ear5n9ongt theor shilling as a reporter should fi9rget about5 bfrsmily fueding. Thjat is not conduc9ve to profgessional stwndartds. W.Enmglish masy have, i9n the eyes of C Slster, thrown WO “under the buis”, but as the latter often ssys, p[olitics csn be brutasl (pharaphrased). But when nit5pickin i9s
  
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  November 26, 2017 11:08am
- lifesgood
  
  I strongly suspect that there is some sort of agreement between WO and AWOL Winston. All last year he promoted Winnie and had his knives out for Bill English and anyone else associated with the Nat party, apart from his beloved Judith. I smell a very strong rat. He really is becoming more and more nasty and bitter. It’s a shame if his lovely wife is now going the same way. I also gave up reading, only taking the occasional peek at the headlines, and haven’t missed it in the least. Interesting that Pete has suddenly left. Hmmmmm!
  
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  November 26, 2017 11:33am
  - niggly
    
    From a visitors point of view (could be wrong etc), but it seems to me Pete did all the bloody work! Eg keeping the site running, seeking out and programming the content (to appear at regular intervals), plus ensuring comments didn’t fall fowl of liable and by the looks it was pretty much almost a 24/7 job for years with seemingly no holidays – I take my hat of to him.
    
    Plus it seems the only investigative journalism (eg visiting mosques and charter schools) were being done by Pete and SB – the rest of the blog articles that Cameron is responsible for seemed to be rehashed MSM stories, stories for clients or attacks on National – not exactly requiring a lot of effort I would have thought. Frankly who can blame Pete for finally needing a well deserved break (and when those around him were having them)?
    
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    November 26, 2017 12:36pm
- Piniwi
  
  True Nukuleka so dial back on the monkey business and up the cats with a begging bowl and moderation as fair and balanced as the Media party reporting so faithfully reprinted there.
  
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  November 26, 2017 6:20pm
- Morrissey
  
  Pete’s gone?!!?!?!? Hooraaaaayyyyy! He’s the one who banned me from that sorry place for the third and final time, back in 2014….
  
  http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/07/whaleoil-general-debate-28/#comment-1491931972
  
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  November 26, 2017 7:11pm
DifferentPerspective

Herald journo calls Bishop a dick for doing his job

Commented on this last night, but the dishonesty and bias is so egregious it’s worth airing this morning.
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November 26, 2017 8:14am
UrbanNeocolonialist

Anyone notice Roy Morgan’s poll this week? They combine Lab+NZF to give 44.5% (and hide Labours weak <40% polling), and put Greens at 10%, and National at 40%.

What they don't say is that this is basically the same as their pre-election polling, that was proven to be very wrong by the election result. Rogue Morgan's pre-election poll had Nats 40, Lab 39.5, Greens 9, NZF 6, Actual result 44.5, 37, 6, 7

This from a polling company that is typically the outlier from Colmar Brunton and Reid Research.

And scarier for CoL is that in 1999 and 2008 the incoming govt enjoyed an 11% increase in popularity post election. The CoL haven't moved up at all.
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November 26, 2017 8:17am
- Milhous
  
  Last point very very relevant…. and they know it.
  
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  November 26, 2017 8:39am
Paulus Gnome

Cribbed from WO but just so funny; how Ken treats our Barbie, how Gayford puts the T in tosser

https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/11/prime-ministers-boyfriend-explains-secret-good-relationship/#disqus_thread
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November 26, 2017 8:18am
- KKKKatee
  
  Just popped over to WO to take a look. OMG!
  This bloke is a complete tosspot! One WO commenter describes Gayford as “a legend in his own trousers”. I thought that was very funny.
  And the PM is proud to trot him out from time to time as her arm candy? Actually, I thought he showed a complete lack of class when he turned up to the PM’s swearing in and couldn’t be bothered wearing a tie! Jazindarella – you’re welcome to have your heart broken by this idiot…..
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:24am
Hugh Pavletich

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Australia faces housing hangover twice the size of the GFC era … Bloomberg / Sydney Morning Herald

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/australia-faces-housing-hangover-twice-the-size-of-the-gfc-subprime-era-20171123-gzrwn4.html

The party is finally winding down for our housing market. How severe the hangover is will determine the economy’s fate for years to come.

After five years of surging prices, the market value of the nation’s homes has ballooned to $7.3 trillion – or more than four times gross domestic product. Not even the US and UK markets achieved such heights at their peaks a decade ago before prices spiralled lower and dragged their economies with them. … read more via hyperlink above …

… Republished today in New Zealand Herald …

Party is over for Australia’s $8 trillion housing frenzy – NZ Herald

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11947826
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November 26, 2017 8:26am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Hugh, you’re not listening. Paulus Gnome asked you to have a day off.
  
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  November 26, 2017 8:43am
  - RalphT
    
    Give him a chance, Captain. He’s starting quietly by having a bit of a lie in. In a couple years he’ll probably feel up to taking a day off.
    
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    November 26, 2017 9:04am
Paulus

A few of us very mature citizens last evening were chewing the cud over a beer or so, and of course the subject of Cindy came up.
Most of us have been in New Zealand 50 to 70 years and are suddenly saddened and jolted by the move to socialism to the degree we are beginning to see.
Most of us left all parts of the UK for a better life and are of the opinion we had achieved it.
We all worked hard in many different jobs; we saw redundancies sometimes, more than once, the collapse of our own business, and the fortitude to get up and start again from what was adversity, having effectively gone bust.
Our wives and husbands kept together and never faced the undignified of having to ask for help from the Government.
We taught our children to read and write before school. We gave them time and love to achieve what we considered a better life than the wartime we had.
Our children and grandchildren have done us proud, some via University, some by their own efforts in starting up their own business and taking pride in their achievements, and the next generation.
We went through buying our own houses sometimes paying over 20% mortgages. Repairing cars ourselves as we could not afford expensive garages.
Often our wives worked with us, and at the same time supported our children with much love.
Saturday 6am Swimming lessons, 9am cricket or football, including umpiring and coaching, and so on at the same time supporting our schools and their teachers in the betterment of our country.
It is not the move towards widening our society to those who genuinely need support – in principle we are and have come from Labour inclined backgrounds all our lives and some have continuously supported Labour and recently voted for them.
However the rhetoric of untruths and downright lies has changed a number of our friends – and we feel we are not alone, in so far that we feel that we have been cheated, not by the Labour led Government in itself, but by the naive leadership of this young inexperienced girl in terms of never had to graft for her living – in fact never had to wonder where the children’s clothes are to come from for school, and having to say sorry no we cannot afford.
We love our adopted country very much but are saddened by the blind sudden jerk movement towards this communist brand of socialism.
Those who supported Labour will never do that again under this blind leadership.
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November 26, 2017 8:28am
- RF
  
  Paulus.
  
  I wish I could give you 100 upticks.
  
  I have trod the same path………You have nailed it my friend.
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:05am
- starboard
  
  Well said.?
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:10am
- GazzaW
  
  Spot on Paulus. Our family arrived from the UK in the 1950s and my parents never returned to England. There was no money in the early days but they developed such an unabiding love for this country that there was no desire to do so anyway. Dad was a staunch Labour man of the old school and will be spinning in his grave watching this mob of faux-socialists in action.
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:31am
- marcw
  
  Proves that Capitalism has failed for the Ardern family. Pity that Cinderella can’t see the irony.
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:49am
- treadingthemill
  
  We love our adopted country very much but are saddened by the blind sudden jerk movement towards this communist brand of socialism.
  
  It’s sad that you are saddened by something that has no relation to reality.
  
  Those who supported Labour will never do that again under this blind leadership.
  
  So far I have seen nothing that would cause me not to vote for them at the next election.
  
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  November 26, 2017 10:44am
  - lifesgood
    
    Wow! TTM There are none so blind as they who will not see!
    
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    November 26, 2017 11:47am
    - treadingthemill
      
      @ lifesgood
      
      Fundamentalism, whether in religion of politics, is the shortest road to blindness.
      
      Hysteria combined with fundamentalism is an even shorter road.
      
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      November 26, 2017 12:22pm
- Viking2
  
  One didn’t need to be an immigrant to go through these times. Some of us put up with you lot in the early days. You probably don’t recall but poms were know as whingers.
  But in the end you turned out ok in general.
  Kiwi’s born and bred have been thru the same travails which are euphemistically know as “life”. Most of them caused by politicians continually knowing better than the rest of us serfs and continually inventing new rules by which we should exist and try to bring up families and start and grow businesses. Mostly they are control freaks.
  
  Its frustrating to get to an age where you have life skills on your side and history to have learnt from only to find that the Jacinda’s of this world think there is nothing to learn and change for change sake or theft from your hard earned savings is ok because they have never learnt the humility of asking those that have been before.
  
  Its like we don’t matter anymore. Its not that we shouldn’t develop and change because we should but how can one plan ones life to be self supporting when just when you get to that point along come these idiots and want to change the rules so that they can take away what you have sweated blood to achieve.
  
  Would have been better to have sent my money offshore rather than build houses for Kiwi’s to rent.
  
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  November 26, 2017 11:03am
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Shitloads of upticks and deserved. I am 3rd generation New Zealander and now over 65. I continue to work 4 days a week – means my Super gets hit at 33%. I owe nothing and own very little thanks to a Trust. With this change in Govt I know dam well Taxinder and Robbo the robber want my hard earned money.
  Well, they are not going to get it. They don’t seem to realise that they actually owe me for what they have.
  Get you fucking hands out of my arse pocket
  
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  November 26, 2017 4:37pm
Paulus Gnome

Obviously posting before reading what’s gone before Hugh.

Same old same old, retire to dark room, one of those you have written about numerous times before, lie down with a damp towel over the head, breathe slowly . . . .
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November 26, 2017 8:29am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Paulus … did you see this from yesterday ? …
  
  New Housing Minister Phil Twyford talks tough on property speculators and opens the door to more overseas developers/builders doing work here | interest.co.nz
  
  https://www.interest.co.nz/property/91065/new-housing-minister-phil-twyford-talks-tough-property-speculators-and-opens-door
  
  Residential property investors have a narrow window of opportunity to purchase new properties that won’t be subject to the extended five year bright line capital gains tax the government is introducing, but those who are offsetting losses from their existing properties against other income had better start working on plan B.
  
  In an extended video interview with interest.co.nz, Housing and Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford outlined the state of play of the new Labour-led Government’s plans for housing industry reform.
  
  He said extending the bright line test so that residential investment properties would be taxed on any capital gains if they’re were sold within five years of purchase did not require a change of legislation, which meant it could be introduced reasonably quickly.
  
  But it would not be retrospective. … VIEW & READ MORE via hyperlink above …
  
  … with much other quality material …
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/11/general_debate_24_november_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-2084822
  
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  November 26, 2017 8:42am
  - starboard
    
    Twitfords an idiot and will be out on his ear come 2020.
    Cant come soon enough.
    
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    November 26, 2017 9:12am
    - Hugh Pavletich
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      … when no doubt starboard, the genius Nick Smith returns … refer GONE GONE GOING section at http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org
      
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      November 26, 2017 9:21am
      - Harkman
        
        What’s with the daily hostility Hugh? Me thinks a holiday in Pyongyang will work wonders for you.
        
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        November 26, 2017 11:10am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Sadly … it has been the Tory Toss Pots who have failed … while I … a Pure Tory … have been consistent all along ! …
        
        John Key on Housing Reform 2007 – YouTube
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWPgoAI1cLE
        
        … then new Housing Minister Phil Heatley in early 2009 …
        
        Bringing better balance to the housing market | infonews.co.nz New Zealand’s local news community
        
        https://www.infonews.co.nz/news.cfm?id=32737
        
        I walked through the previous governments failings at the time of the release of this year’s Demographoa Survey late January within NEW ZEALANDS HOUSING CONSENSUS: WHERE IS THE POLITICAL LEAERSHIP ? …
        
        http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2017/01/auckland-worlds-fourth-hardest-to-buy.html
        
        The sad reality is that Nick Smith is the brightest National has within its ranks !
        
        It would be funny … if it wasn’t so sad.
        
        As I keep reminding my fellow Tories here at Kiwiblog … dumb is not beautiful … unless you are Goldie Hawn …
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mez8LZzA-tw
        
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        November 26, 2017 12:30pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        THE MARKET KNOWS THE LABOUR – LED GOVERNMENT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS … AND TORY PLAYTIME IS OVER …
        
        November 18th Interest Co NZ report …best to listen to the market, rather than the ‘walking wounded’ Tories at Kiwiblog …
        
        The latest RBNZ survey of house price expectations brings a sharp dive in those seeing gains in the future. In fact capital gains may have vanished; the risk is now to the downside … David Chaston … Interest Co NZ
        
        https://www.interest.co.nz/news/90954/latest-rbnz-survey-house-price-expectations-brings-sharp-dive-those-seeing-gains-future
        
        Each quarter, the RBNZ conducts a survey of household expectations.
        
        (Well, actually they take data from the UMR Research “nation-wide telephone omnibus survey”.)
        
        The questions the Reserve Bank is interested in relate to consumer price inflation and also house price inflation.
        
        Specifically, the questions about expected house price inflation are: … read more via hyperlink above …
        
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        November 26, 2017 5:36pm
    - Viking2
      
      Twyford suffers from delusions of grandure.
      
      https://www.interest.co.nz/property/91065/new-housing-minister-phil-twyford-talks-tough-property-speculators-and-opens-door
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/99081586/clip-together-lego-hotels-coming-as-developers-chase-cheaper-faster-builds
      
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      November 26, 2017 11:06am
      - Harkman
        
        Twyford is New Zealand’s biggest liar.
        
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        November 26, 2017 11:11am
  - KevOB
    
    If Twford thinks his wishes to extend the Bright Line Test to 5 years do not require specific legislation he doesn’t know the Commissioner of Inland Revenue’s statutory functions or the Courts to which these matters are appealed.
    The Minister’s wishes are irrelevant as against the law. People, including judges, don’t like paying tax and any extension will need to be properly defined and go in a Bill through parliament. The CIR has adequate power now to tax profits out of any situation entered into to make a profit. He does not have the power to tax arbitrarily. Only a self deluded Minister could believe that.
    
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    November 26, 2017 9:32am
    - GazzaW
      
      Self -delusion is a quality that Twyford has in spades.
      
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      November 26, 2017 10:00am
      - Viking2
        
        Yep along with delusions of grandure and an attitude towards the truth.
        
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        November 26, 2017 11:07am
      - James Stephenson
        
        Delusions of adequacy, never mind grandeur.
        
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        November 26, 2017 11:33am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Quite right Kev
      These muppets think they can just wave a wand and all will be done!
      I still haven’t heard how the zealots within Auckland Council Planning are going to be made to toe the line.
      Those fuckwits Twyford and Pavletich probably think that just changing the RMA will do it.
      The thing is AC Planning (some 1500 strong!!!)already ignore some of the flexibility available in the planning/design rules and constantly enforce and only permit what they want!
      They do it all the time.
      As I have been saying for years. The only way to really open things up is to take it all away from AC.
      Does Labour have the political will to remove powers and functions from a democratically elected Council?
      I don’t think so.
      
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      November 26, 2017 10:29am
      - VicParking
        
        Not a Labour lead and driven one that is.
        
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        November 26, 2017 10:57am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Kev, I’ll be almost grateful if all they do is extend the brightline test, hard though it will be. There need to be exemptions for people who genuinely need to sell and move though.
      
      But Labour’s previous threats to CGT and Land Tax home businesses and long term rentals are even scarier.
      
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      November 26, 2017 12:02pm
      - KevOB
        
        Any brightline extension to say 5 years should have a rebate for years 3-5 so that all tax liability is proportionally removed whole month by month over that period. There are a lot of diverse circumstances where intention is problematical. A phase out would acknowledge the often blurry lines between capital, income and a windfall.
        
        Land tax has failed previously and was uneconomic to collect. Other tax adventures as a former tax administrator I consider with horror. Taxes have to be equitable, certain, not cause hardship, collectable, unavoidable, economic and not have unintended consequences. The present regime has not been arrived at randomly or by whim. The years of testing should be recognised. PAYE and GST, avoid of envy, work well.
        
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        November 26, 2017 12:41pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        I totally agree, Kev. Taxing what is just housing inflation is unfair anyway. I’m just thinking perhaps they’re doing a Thatcher ‘threaten the worst, so the populace will reluctantly accept the second worst’…
        
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        November 26, 2017 1:08pm
gorse

Whale oil pushing the barrow to get rid of Bill English again, wants Judith Collins, his “friend” as leader I suspect. Not sure what the problem is with Bill, says he had lost two elections, I thought he did as well as John Key, it was the Maori Party loss, then Winston Peters that sealed National’s fate – not Bill English. As leader rather than leap into every issue, it is better strategy to quietly let the opposition flounder and pounce on the big issues. Letting the team pick away at Labour, as they are, picking your time is the best strategy. It will be a sad sad day if the knives come out in the new year, National may well self destruct if they do.
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November 26, 2017 8:29am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Not that I’m suggesting you shouldn’t let the facts get in the way of a good moan, but WO was quoting Jo Moir at one of our proud fake news purveyors at Stuff – here.
  
  His commentary is on what’s going on inside National at the moment but I know many here are firmly ostriching the obvious problems with National hoping they’ll go away.
  
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  November 26, 2017 8:37am
  - Ambergris
    
    Serious question DP.
    Do you think WO has any great insight into what is going on within the National Party at the moment?
    If there are National MP’s giving him the sort of information he claims to be getting then more fool them.
    It’s only a feeling I have, but I get the impression even his “bestie” Judith Collins, is not as close to him as he would have us believe.
    
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    November 26, 2017 11:20am
    - DifferentPerspective
      
      Good question. I think he has far less inside info than he used to have, but I think there are plenty of leakers looking to get their own agenda promoted that I’m pretty sure he’s well informed.
      
      Plus of course there is the tipline, which will yield nonsense along with the good oil, but yes – overall, I think he’s getting good info from inside the machine. Better than most of us on KB.
      
      Plus he reads the tea leaves fairly well, he has been ahead of the curve on quite a few things over the years.
      
      Hardly a loveable persona, but as one of the myriad of ‘new media’ info sources – he’s one of the most valuable for showing up MSM lies and perfidy imho.
      
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      November 26, 2017 3:12pm
- GazzaW
  
  I have been told by a longstanding National Party member that it’s personal utu from Slater. Bill English purportedly upset John Slater (Cameron’s father) when he was the party President nearly twenty years ago.
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:20am
  - KKKKatee
    
    Agree. I read a post where Cameron Slater said why he dislikes Bill English vehemently. Of course, he’s fully entitled to, but the post came over as a childish rant imo. Slater needs to move on from that incident me thinks…..
    
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    November 26, 2017 9:28am
    - doggone7
      
      Came over as a childish rant. That’d be unusual there wouldn’t it?
      
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      November 26, 2017 2:13pm
      - starboard
        
        Slater (aptly named) is a fat bully-slob. His blog is a sad joke and a true reflection of himself.
        
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        November 26, 2017 4:02pm
      - sam green
        
        Slater was the fall guy for national’s (and CT’s) dirty politics debacle and he got hung out to dry as they all scampered for cover. No wonder he’s pissed off. Still – as he always says – “you lie down with dogs ….. “.
        
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        November 26, 2017 9:49pm
      - starboard
        
        Stooopid boy green sam…
        
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        November 26, 2017 9:54pm
      - sam green
        
        Silly old ladyboy fucker starboard.
        
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        November 26, 2017 10:12pm
  - fernglas
    
    Why dignify what Slater and Peters have done by calling it Utu? From Wikipedia.
    
    “Utu is a Māori concept of reciprocation or balance.
    
    To retain mana, both friendly and unfriendly actions require an appropriate response – hence utu covers both the reciprocation of kind deeds, and the seeking of revenge.”
    
    What Slater and Peters are doing is is nothing more than revenge, pay back, call it what you will. And without balance.
    
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    November 26, 2017 10:01am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Hey, people are just trying to meet the new gvmt’s PC demand for more Maori usage…
      
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      November 26, 2017 1:11pm
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      “Utu is a Māori concept of reciprocation or balance, achieved through revenge.”
      
      There. Fixed it.
      
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      November 26, 2017 1:42pm
- James Stephenson
  
  There’s a decent probability that Bill will call it quits either before the next election or soon after, so it follows that ambitious types will be looking at how to position themselves for that eventuality.
  
  It seems that there’s enough discipline and good sense in the Nat caucus to ensure that they’re competing by seeing who can make their opposites look most incompetent.
  
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  November 26, 2017 11:08am
- Paulus
  
  For Judith Collins to have the friendship and support of Whale Oil is the sure kiss of death.
  
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  November 26, 2017 1:45pm
All_on_Red

Informative article about Norways Refugee policies
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/11/the-norway-model-a-new-way-to-think-about-immigration-and-asylum-in-europe/

‘ Norway starts by acknowledging that the rich world has a moral duty to help refugees, but it goes further. The tougher moral question, it says, is: how do you help them? And if you can help far more refugees in camps abroad for the cost of helping one at home, what do you do?’
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November 26, 2017 8:40am
DifferentPerspective

Immigration – U-turn coming

Better than Monty Python – my Little Pony is getting ready for another ~~lie~~ policy shift from what was promised during the election on immigration.

Hilariously ironic from Hehir poking fun at the CoL!
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November 26, 2017 8:42am
- RF
  
  The photograph in the article shows a very stressed young lady well out of her depth.
  
  Her minders must be very worried especially as Grant can be heard sharpening his knife.
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:13am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    And why is Grant right behind her in EVERY recent picture we’ve seen of her?
    
    25 2
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    November 26, 2017 9:18am
    - starboard
      
      Robertsons always hanging around somebodys rear…
      
      33 2
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      November 26, 2017 9:27am
    - KKKKatee
      
      ‘Cos she hasn’t got big enough balls to take care of herself – that’s why!
      
      17 1
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      November 26, 2017 9:29am
    - Inandout
      
      Grant pulls Jacinda’s strings from behind, hence his usual position.
      
      11 2
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      November 26, 2017 11:00am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      So funny how he grins approvingly when she performs correctly and says what he want her to…
      
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      November 26, 2017 12:07pm
- VicParking
  
  Just another week, another broken promise or backdown. Sooner or later they will need to make some new promises so they can have some to break.
  Next door neighbour planted a tree yesterday. Rushed in to see it the counter slowed but it did not. Told him to email KB to tell them.
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:37am
  - treadingthemill
    
    Ardern said prior to the election that their policy on low skilled workers would probably lead to a reduction of around 20 to 30% “but don’t hold me to those numbers.” That’s a direct quote from one of the debates. So really, if the numbers don’t fall as much, thats not a backdown or a broken promise.
    
    Good governments are always pragmatic, and while immigration was too high under National, the government has to balance lowering the rate with with the skills shortage, the desperate need for workers in some industries, and their plans for regional development, especially as there are signs immigration is falling anyway. They don’t want to choke off the supply of workers so much that it’s detrimental to the economy.
    
    I understand, sort of, the partisan need to scream “look they are not doing EXACTLY what they said!” but that’s exactly why excessive partisanship is such a poor way to understand governments and policies. Being one eyed means you can’t see the full picture, just a distorted one.
    
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    November 26, 2017 10:18am
    - backster
      
      Both her mate Winston and her repeatedly said they would replace the hardworking immigrant workers with the layabout bludgers (my description) unemployed. They haven’t even tried that so far and with your help are trying to back out of it, same as Pike River.
      
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      November 26, 2017 11:06am
      - Viking2
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/99205293/stacey-kirk-the-immigration-tightrope–a-uturn-is-risky-pressing-on-riskier-for-government
        
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        November 26, 2017 11:15am
    - KevOB
      
      Fraud is being reckless with truth–not caring about the outcome.
      
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      November 26, 2017 12:50pm
GazzaW

Another Auckland City blowout? Auckland City or more particularly biosecurity manager, Mr Phil Brown is proposing all out warfare on domestic moggies with a vengeance. Unchipped cats found wandering will be executed.

I’m not arguing the rights or wrongs of owning a cat – it’s the budget that’s being set aside for this relatively trifling issue. Wait for it – $307 million over the next ten years!!

I don’t recall giving you a mandate for that Phil Goff.
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November 26, 2017 8:52am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Don’t be too hard on Phil. I saw him yesterday explaining how he has to be responsible with ratepayers’ money. And no, he wasn’t talking about the the number of expensive PR staff or his council’s failure to evict rates-defaulters from their houses.
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:00am
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  So there will be a fee for getting a cat chipped, then a team of cat police roaming the streets looking for non chipped cats? All Council workers of course. Had enough of Auckland Councils’ shit. Drain the swamp
  
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  November 26, 2017 10:10am
  - sooty
    
    Just imagine,
    Building rented.
    Fitted out. Coms, desks, computors, etc.
    Fleet of vehicles.
    extra large staff.
    It’s going to be expensive.
    Budget blow out, Goofy!
    It’s going to end in tears!
    
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    November 26, 2017 12:32pm
Digmen1

What about an allout war on gangs and druggies. Much better value.
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November 26, 2017 8:58am
- GazzaW
  
  ……and the ‘beggars’.
  
  It is bloody outrageous. KBers living in Auckland have to get into the ear of their local councillors as this proposal still has to be approved.
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:07am
- treadingthemill
  
  What about an allout war on gangs and druggies. Much better value.
  
  Such a war has been a total failure in the USA, leading to insane incarceration rates, police corruption and militarisation to the detriment of good community policing, unjust sentencing (a pedophile may get a lesser sentence than a person selling crack) and a total failure to actually reduce drug addiction.
  
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  November 26, 2017 10:49am
  - backster
    
    Don’t kid yourself the Don has declared war on them and is deporting them by the hundred. Aussie not doing a bad job either, sending plenty back to our Deputy PM to look after.
    
    10 1
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    November 26, 2017 11:11am
    - treadingthemill
      
      backster, I was only talking about the war on drugs, not gangs. If Trump is deporting the members of foreign gangs then good on him.
      
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      November 26, 2017 2:52pm
  - Viking2
    
    Such a war has been a total failure in the USA, many other countries and IN NEW ZEALAND leading to insane incarceration rates, police corruption and militarisation to the detriment of good community policing, unjust sentencing (a pedophile may get a lesser sentence than a person selling crack) and a total failure to actually reduce drug addiction.
    
    There fixed that for ya.
    
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    November 26, 2017 11:17am
    - treadingthemill
      
      Viking2, yes the war on drugs has been a failure everywhere.
      
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      November 26, 2017 11:22am
Morrissey

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
GROPERS
No. 11: Dr. Morgan Fahey

As medical examiner for Ansett New Zealand, he had ready access to easy targets – not just because he could control the acceptance process for young women determined to become flight attendants, but because, as he said himself, if an accusation was made, who would believe it?

Unlike his behaviour with other patients, he limited his sexual activity with the Ansett trainees – far enough to afford him some gratification, not so far that it could not be explained away as part of a normal medical examination. ….

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=138943

https://www.mcnz.org.nz/assets/News-and-Publications/Booklets/History-of-the-Medical-Council/files/basic-html/page135.html

“GROPERS” is presented by GroperWatch, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.

 No.1 George Herbert Walker Bush; No. 2 Bill O’Reilly; No. 3 Al Franken; No. 4 Robin Brooke; No. 5 Lester Beck; No. 6 Arnold Schwarzenegger; No. 7 Joe Biden; No. 8 Rolf Harris; No. 9 Harold Bloom; No. 10 Sir Jimmy Savile
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November 26, 2017 9:26am
- Morrissey
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  This man thanks five KBers for their support as of 9:52 a.m. ….
  
  http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/news-photo/dr-morgan-fahey-outside-his-home-in-fendalton-christchurch-news-photo/56069176?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect#dr-morgan-fahey-outside-his-home-in-fendalton-christchurch-picture-id56069176
  
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  November 26, 2017 9:52am
  - fernglas
    
    Thanks for the info about these people, Mozza, but what’s your point?
    
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    November 26, 2017 10:03am
    - sooty
      
      Lawnmowers feeling left out!
      
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      November 26, 2017 12:33pm
  - Nukuleka
    
    Why on earth are you dragging up this ancient history? Unless you get a bit of a cheap thrill from your own private wee fantasies, eh Morrie? A bit of salacious pleasure from reading about all those gropers…
    
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    November 26, 2017 10:05am
    - Swifty
      
      It’s creepy…
      
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      November 26, 2017 10:57am
    - Morrissey
      
      Painting a picture, my friend, painting a picture. Bit by bit by bit….
      
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      November 26, 2017 7:12pm
  - starboard
    
    I actually agree with Morrissey Breen regarding ‘fingers fahey’. Doctor M Fahey arrogantly thought he could get away with sexually violating young women at their Ansett medicals..and was jailed, rightly so. Grubby old sexual deviant..
    Dont think he ever showed any remorse.
    
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    November 26, 2017 4:13pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Here’s some more stuff for your files
  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-sexual-harassment-investigation-independent-examiners-bex-bailey-a8036501.html
  
  http://www.smh.com.au/national/bob-collins-took-own-life-nt-coroner-20080214-1s8q.html
  
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  November 26, 2017 10:03am
- backster
  
  Is the name Clinton not worthy of inclusion then.
  
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  November 26, 2017 11:14am
marcw

Two suggestions for ‘counters’ to add to your Kiwiblog page David:
1. The number of days the Pike River drift has not been entered by an investigative/recovery team since both Ardern and Little promised the families it would be.
2. The number of meters an investigative/recovery team has progressed into the Pike River drift since both Ardern and Little promised to do so. [I am fairly confident this one does not need to be ‘active’ – just set it at zero.]
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November 26, 2017 9:58am
brett68

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/11/national-burying-parliament-in-spam-hipkins.html

This is what I’d expect from Labour, there’s no win in this type of strategy, all it does is make National look like fuck wits and provides a distraction from the COL.
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November 26, 2017 10:03am
- Viking2
  
  Nope keeps the Ministers busy and their staff frustrated so not able to help them.
  
  They will employ a whole lot more and then can be attacked for having a lot more staff.
  They deserve everything they get. Other than few no one else will notice except by what does not get done.
  
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  November 26, 2017 11:21am
- RF
  
  Apparently Mallard holds the record. 7000 requests in one month.
  
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  November 26, 2017 2:16pm
fernglas

If Labour is like a kid in a sandpit with being in power, National looks like being the same with opposition
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November 26, 2017 10:06am
dime

the AB’s were a hard watch this morning.

good result though when you consider whos out, these first choice players:

1) moody
2) coles
3) franks
4 ) lurch
5) read
6) dagg
7) smith

As Dime has a slightly different version of sky 😀 i was watching it on bbc 2. not bad. clearly on wales side “if we can just score again soon”

i had to laugh at the end of half time “if this was a boxing match, the ref would have stopped it! but the AB’s still in their with a punchers chance” hehe
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November 26, 2017 10:15am
- MCos
  
  I keep reading the ABs had a mediocre sort of year.
  It’s tough at the top.
  
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  November 26, 2017 12:38pm
  - dime
    
    not a great year, but an important one.
    
    they blooded a lot of newbies.
    
    we are in a great position for 2019.. which is what seems to be what its all about now..
    
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    November 26, 2017 2:19pm
Sofia

He [Little] said that because the Department of Labour produced no evidence against Mr Whittall and the charges were dismissed it was effectively an acquittal, so he could not be recharged. Police at the time declined to charge Mr Whittall under the Crimes Act, and any civil suit – as a personal injury case – which would be prevented by ACC legislation, he said.

“I think that’s why people might understand now why the Pike River re-entry project is so vital and so important in terms of the families’ pursuit of justice,” Mr Little said.
“We have a chance to get in there and get other evidence that tells a more accurate story or a different story, and is another chance to hold people to account, then that’s why we must do that.”

The decision to drop the charges was a “crooked deal” and he was “gobsmacked” when he heard about it, Mr Little said. “It was the wrong thing to do.”
____

Labour’s sudden nervousness is evident in the designation of Little as the minister who will alone determine whether to go ahead with any recovery plan —rather than following the standard practice of the Cabinet making a collective decision.
The intention is obvious. If Little gets it wrong, other ministers will be able to distance themselves and the Government as a whole from what will be an almighty mess.
– “Opinion: Andrew Little’s real Pike River role is to let the families down gently”, John Armstrong

I would welcome anyone’s valid explanation as to why the dismissal of charges against Whittall is a distardly action and the removal of Cabinet collective responsibility would not be.

In fact, unless something to effect collective responsibility is legislated, gazetted or put n place in some formal manner, how else is Cabinet, except for Little, exempt? Especially as that will have to be the case in reality. If Cabinet is to not be collectively responsible, no Cabinet Member other than Little can have any input, so Cabinet Members will have less input than, say, a Pike River family member like Bernie Monk? Is it either feasible, legal or apt, in this instance, to absolve Cabinet of collective responsibility? Is it the right thing to do?
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November 26, 2017 10:33am
- VicParking
  
  Its not in Littles interest to have any sort of court case as he is sure to be called as a witness for the defence. As leader of the miners union and his numerous statements that the mine was safe for ‘his workers’ Little will be put in a untenable situation if called.
  
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  November 26, 2017 11:06am
  - Sofia
    
    Speaking before handing over the keys, Little said things had changed for the Pike families.
    “Sure, there has been a change of government, but it’s a change of attitude by the Government as well.”
    The promise was always to go in and recover any remains, and find out more about what happened.
    “[The explosion] was totally preventable, and totally avoidable. It was a gross act of corporate negligence.”
    And they still didn’t have all the answers about what really happened, Little said.
    “I’m privileged to have the job of doing the best I can to fulfil that promise.”
    
    The people have voted for change. So Little seems to be changing things?
    
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    November 26, 2017 11:24am
    - sooty
      
      Yep! Flip, Flopping. Like the useless idiot he is.
      
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      November 26, 2017 12:37pm
    - Paulus
      
      Will the families give back the $3.5 million they received for this action from Whittall’s insurers who will welcome the return as they await legal action.
      This of course will include the Health and Safety Manager who sadly has the dust of a son still down the mine Mr Rockhouse – whose wife is one of Bernie’s attendants.
      
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      November 26, 2017 1:51pm
- KevOB
  
  Unless the law is first changed any Minister or official partaking in overriding the Directors’ judgment could find themselves in Court too if further trouble occurs.
  
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  November 26, 2017 12:57pm
nasska

…..”Is it the right thing to do”…..

It would never have crossed their minds. What is expedient & aids the cause are the only criteria they use.

But they opened their collective traps & let the Norwester blow their tongues around on the subject during the lead up to the last election. Now they’ll be shitting bricks while trying to find a way to save face without committing group suicide via the gas in the Pike River mine.

Poor Andy is the sacrificial goat.
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November 26, 2017 10:41am
- Sofia
  
  Monday’s announcement of the setting up of a stand-alone Pike River Recovery Agency might have looked like full-steam ahead from that quarter as Jacinda Ardern triumphantly ticked off yet another item on Labour’s first 100 days action plan as “done”.
  
  However can “a stand-alone Pike River Recovery Agency” and its responsible Minister explain anything to a Cabinet that is absolved of any collective responsibility and for that reason can not contribute anything to a decision “a stand-alone Pike River Recovery Agency” must now make by itself?
  Where does this place the likes of Winston if questioned by media on a Cabinet matter on which he may not have input?
  
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  November 26, 2017 11:01am
  - fernglas
    
    I don’t follow what you mean when you talk about an absolution of Cabinet from collective responsibility. That remains; the point of the article is simply that by giving the responsibility for decision-making to an individual cabinet minister, the others can distance themselves politically from any fall out. It doesn’t mean that they are not responsible, but it does mean that the individual consequences can vary.
    
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    November 26, 2017 11:26am
    - Sofia
      
      … Little as the minister who will alone determine whether to go ahead with any recovery plan —rather than following the standard practice of the Cabinet making a collective decision. The intention is obvious. If Little gets it wrong, other ministers will be able to distance themselves and the Government as a whole from what will be an almighty mess” – John Armstrong
      
      I don’t think this means anything other than what it says.
      
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      November 26, 2017 12:13pm
  - KevOB
    
    Where is the passed vote item authorising the appropriation of public monies for this new Agency? All payments without that appropriation or retrospective appropriation by consent are recoverable.
    
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    November 26, 2017 12:59pm
- Piniwi
  
  True nasska Angry Andy has certainly become the sacraficial lamb and the new Pike River Recovery ministry will be working hard to cover up for his mistakes in this issue.
  He has clocked more loses than any other MP as he now slushes around in a massive trough of his own.
  
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  November 26, 2017 6:47pm
Jack5

The rapture continues …

Goldbrick Ghahraman gets space in the Hooerald to enhance her credentials.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11947906
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November 26, 2017 11:04am
Jack5

Irony in a nutshell …

In a two-part series on Bitcoin, a Hawkes Bay Today article on the Hooerald web site says: “In a two-part series, I will give an overview of bitcoin in a nutshell.”
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November 26, 2017 11:24am
JibberJabber

Once again the unwitting public become guinea pigs in the failed experiment that the misnamed “justice” system is, as another remorseless killer is to be released.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11947546

Sentenced to 3 years 6months for killing a person, what a fucking joke this country is.
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November 26, 2017 11:27am
- JibberJabber
  
  Watch what gets you 20 years in Texas,
  
  https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3c9_1511642308
  
  When will the softcock SJW judges here learn that the feral scum have to be removed from civilised society until they are no longer a threat to the law-abiding, where the fuck are our rights?
  
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  November 26, 2017 11:36am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Our protection has very little to do with the poor wee crims’ ‘rehabilitation’. Judges seem to think mainly about the latter. I don’t give a toss about their rehab, because it virtually never works anyway. Just get the creeps off our streets!
    
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    November 26, 2017 5:53pm
- waikatogirl
  
  One for DG’s 3 Strike campaign.
  
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  November 26, 2017 7:31pm
Jack5

Elon Musk and a forecast that electric articulated trucks will do 500 miles (805km) on a single charge, then recharge in 30 minutes sufficiently to do another 400 miles (644km) – the maximum daily driving allowed by US regulations.

(Auckland central – Wellington central 643km; Blenheim-Invercargill 1013 km.)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-24/tesla-s-newest-promises-break-the-laws-of-batteries
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November 26, 2017 11:40am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Tesla is going to fall over the Cobalt cliff
  
  https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2017/11/25/the-cobalt-cliff/
  
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  November 26, 2017 11:50am
  - nasska
    
    Anyone who farms SE of the volcanic plateau will know that cobalt, although essential, doesn’t come cheap. Pushing the world’s supply into batteries won’t help matters.
    
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    November 26, 2017 12:07pm
  - Jack5
    
    An interesting point, Maggy.
    
    These tips might be useful to anyone wanting to invest in cobalt:
    
    http://www.thebull.com.au/premium/a/69029-asx-cobalt-miners-for-your-radar.html
    
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    November 26, 2017 1:40pm
  - Gruffydd
    
    Still reading those whacko blogs maggy ?
    Jesus when will you realize they feed you rubbish ?
    Cranks will believe any old nonsense.. EH.
    
    If we assume that Tesla meets its new and even more ambitious goal of 500,000 EVs produced in 2018 (rather than the former target of 2020), and an average of 85 kilowatt-hours per EV (this is the high end of today’s Teslas, but it’s likely that range demands will increase as consumers demand more from their EVs, so even Model 3s may have larger batteries over time), plus an equivalent amount of large and small stationarystorageproductions like the Powerwall, we reach a total of 85 million kilowatt-hours of storage needed in 2018. The Model S 85 kilowatt-hour battery currently requires about 8 kilograms of cobalt, so 1 million times this amount is 8 million kilograms = 8,000 metric tons by 2018 or so.
    Given that global cobalt production in 2015 was about 124,000 metric tons, this is probably well within today’s market capacity to provide.
    
    https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/can-cobalt-supplies-scale-with-massive-ev-market-growth#gs._CKKFfo
    
    Not a lot of peploe know that
    Because few are stupid enough to fall for such a source of crank fodder.
    
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    November 26, 2017 2:15pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The point is who controls the market for Co and it’s not Eion Musk.
      
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      November 26, 2017 3:04pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        No lovey the point is you are a crank who believes dribble from fringe nutters.
        Cobalt is soooo rare its really expensive .
        28 dollars a kilo.
        
        Cobalt is a by product from nickel and copper mining. When the price is low miners dont separate it from ore just chuck it onto the slag heap. Because demand is increasing it has become profitable for companys to refine the stuff. The only problem for Musk is Tesla try to source their raw materials from responsible producers not third world shite holes. This means they would prefer not to buy from the worlds largest producer the Congo.
        
        As it is no secret demand is increasing miners are reevaluating their operations or looking at known reserves to increase supply.
        
        from jacks link.
        
        Prior to the appearance of EV’s as a viable means of transportation, cobalt was not in high demand, resulting in copper and nickel miners rejecting the costs of extraction.
        ..
        Glencore to suspend cobalt production at is Katanga mine in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) with other producers following suit in their own copper and nickel mines.
        
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        November 26, 2017 4:07pm
      - CJames
        
        As usual, Griff is the know it all idiot. Calling people he disagrees with cranks is just projection. But I suppose it doesn’t get strikes which is his usual habit.
        There is about 0.2kg of cobalt in each kWh of Li ion battery. So that means about 20kg a car with reasonable range. There are other batteries that don’t use as much cobalt, like those in things like Powerwalls but they have a lot lower power to weight ratio. The batteries are only good for seven years, even if you don’t do any deep draws, and the batteries are very hard to recycle.
        Last year about 70 Million cars were produced. If even 10% of those cars are electric, there isn’t enough cobalt to go around.
        Because cobalt is a small byproduct of the copper mines, the value of it has little effect on the producers’ economics. If they ramp up production, they lose money as copper and nickel markets go soft. That is why they curtail production. Many of those other sources don’t have current consents or factories to produce it – they could take a decade to build. And you need lots of coal burning stations to produce reliable electricity for the smelters. And their cobalt is only a small part of their income.
        
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        November 26, 2017 5:42pm
      - CJames
        
        And Griff, when you are being supercilious, it would actually help if you get your basic facts right. Cobalt as of Friday was 28.35USD/lb, so over double your price.
        http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/cobalt/all/
        And as the graph shows, the producers are very aware of the price collapse 10 years ago where it went from over $50/lb down to about $18. They won’t build new plant unless they have long term contracts at guaranteed prices.
        
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        November 26, 2017 7:07pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        ROFLMAO
        Yip twenty kg a car according to your imagination.
        Or 8 kg/85kwh as in the link above.
        Batteries only last 7 years?
        https://images.hgmsites.net/med/tesla-model-s-mileage-vs-remaining-battery-range-as-of-apr-2017-source-dutch-belgian-tesla-forum_100605182_m.jpg
        230,000km better than 90% remaining.
        That would be the equivalent of 20 years of driving for an average kiwi. Once no longer suitable for a car they would still have life as storage for off grid solar or solar grid supply.
        Considering Tesla warranty the battery for eight years it is obvious you are quoting. www/factspulledfromyourarse.com
        
        As to it will take 20 years to ramp up cobalt production …..
        What century do you live in?
        They are already ramping up to supply demand as pointed out in jacks link above for mining in AU .
        
        PS
        The discussion is about the increasing long term demand .
        its called market forces.
        They know the demand is there the price has already risen .
        The west runs on supply and demand not command economics.
        
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        November 26, 2017 7:48pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        CJ
        I will not get a strike for calling Maggy lovey a crank
        DFF already knows she is one and her link was to a fringe whacko blog.
        Factual statements are not an offense.
        As to you
        Try supporting your bullshit with a link to a reputable source.
        Or you are just another whacko who is full of shite
        
        [DPF: You do get one for saying I think someone is a crank. That is Strike 7]
        
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        November 26, 2017 7:56pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I wonder if DPF is aware that he has given you a free pass to continue with your abuse of me?
        
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        November 26, 2017 8:22pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        I reckon Maggy!
        Given DKHead Griff is only 3 strikes away from a permanent ban I think it’s pretty clear what DPF thinks of him.
        I suspect DPF is quite busy these days and not policing the blog like he once did.
        Also I know from talking to him his spam filter stops quite a few complaints gettting to him.
        I doubt Griff has any idea what DPF thinks.
        
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        November 26, 2017 8:30pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        Oh you poor wee crank.
        I could full pages with the names of both scientists and organizations you have attacked with allegation of fraud and worse
        But its different when you do it ….eh…lovey.
        
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        November 26, 2017 8:37pm
      - CJames
        
        How about you learning to read Griff, or isn’t that one of your skills? I note your spelling isn’t crash hot either. The car batteries are different to Powerwall.
        http://fortune.com/2015/05/18/tesla-grid-batteries-chemistry/
        As for reputable sources how about FT
        https://www.ft.com/content/16436eea-7dcd-11e7-9108-edda0bcbc928
        All you can quote is a puff piece that can’t even get the science right. Even the graph you posted is from a fanboy website which is probably as rubbish as you. The NCA car batteries are only good for about 500 cycles, even less if it is hot weather, rapid charge or deep drawn.
        https://www.cobaltinstitute.org/lithium-ion-batteries.html
        But then you know more than any of these, don’t you?
        
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        November 26, 2017 9:04pm
      - tom hunter
        
        Hmmmm…..From the Greentech link, further in:
        
        Whether it can all be sourced from North America is a different story.
        
        Which is what Maggie said, based on her “crank” article:
        
        Third, the report did not give adequate consideration to the fact that 80% of cobalt refined in China is used for battery production while only 20% of cobalt refined outside of China is used for battery production
        
        Fascinating agreement between the two. Let’s read further.
        Greentech:
        
        As with my previous analysis looking at how well lithium scales with EV production, let’s assume that by 2040 we have the equivalent of 100 Gigafactories churning out batteries around the world. Under this scenario, we would need 800,000 metric tons of cobalt by 2040 for battery production only.
        
        Hmmmm…
        The Crank article:
        
        Table 1: Element Requirements (Li, Co, Ni, Mn, Al) for Three Battery Cathodes of Interest in Units of kg/kWh:
        NCA 0.112 0.143 0.759
        {NCA being the Lithium nickel cobalt aluminum oxide (LiNi0.8Co0.15Al0.05) battery preferred by Tesla)
        
        That gives 12.155 kg of cobalt per 85KwH Tesla S, which happily lies between the 20kg used by CJames and the 8kg (unreferenced) of the “Greentech”. Running that 12.155 figure across 70 million cars per year gives… 850,850 metric tons of cobalt per year.
        
        More agreement between the two articles. This is fascinating stuff.
        
        Okay, so what’s Greentech‘s conclusion about meeting such a cobalt production demand when it’s needed?:
        
        Luckily, markets can and do solve supply problems in creative ways. First, reserves figures change over time so it is not the case that the current reserves figures will remain static as the cobalt market ramps up. As prices rise for cobalt, and as EV demand rises, many countries and companies will surely get more serious about cobalt production.
        
        Second, existing quantified resources are far greater than stated reserves. Reserves are better quantified than resources, so the latter are more speculative.
        
        Nice to see Green people learning from the Peak Oil clusterfuck – and he also mentions recycling and calculates 39 years of supply But…
        
        But this is a lot of ifs. And 39 years of available cobalt supplies is not very comforting when we envision an economy that relies predominantly on EVs and the massive battery demand this change will require.
        …
        If we state more realistically that the estimated 39-year supply of cobalt with today’s stated resource figures should be reduced to about 30 years, thus allowing for other market uses of cobalt, the question becomes: is a 30-year supply of cobalt for 100 Gigafactories enough to transition the world’s transportation fleet over to EVs?
        
        His gut feeling is no. Mine too!
        And…
        
        What happens when China and India and the rest of the developing world push en masse for personal car ownership and all the privileges that this brings? Well, the world definitely can’t handle that transformation under today’s fossil-fuel system, and it very likely can’t handle it under an EV-focused alternative system either, due to the resource constraints discussed above.
        
        He basically says it’s game over for global automobiles on the Western scale and talks of the need for
        
        Technologies like the hyperloop, commuter trains, neighborhood electric vehicles, traditional bikes and walking…
        
        Of course.
        And guess what the conclusion of the “Crank” article is
        
        When the research team’s conclusions are adjusted to account for these realities, the cobalt supply chain for non-Chinese EV and lithium-ion battery manufacturers is beyond dire.
        …
        Let’s get real here, refined cobalt supplies of 135,000 to 150,000 tonnes in 2025 won’t be anywhere near sufficient. Something will have to give and it won’t be the old-line industrial users.
        
        NOTE: the “crank” article consists of a review of an MIT-Berkeley study that was partially funded by the National Science Foundation – which is anything but “crank”. The review merely points out a couple of areas that they’ve underestimated, which would actually make their concluson more dire:
        
        there are potential risks associated with the supply of Co. In particular, these risks are based on the geographical concentration of mining activities in the DRC as well as the refining focus in China. Furthermore, if there is rapid adoption of EVs {incentives listed} demand could outpace supply of these materials. For the large factories that are located in China this may not be of significant concern, but facilities in other locations (such as the United States) may face challenges in acquiring a stable supply of materials.
        
        Sorry about all the quotes, but when two (three sources actually) are in such agreement I think it’s worth it. Isn’t reading wonderful.
        
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        November 26, 2017 9:11pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        First off maggy linked to a wacko blog that carried a stroy from seeking alpha
        seeking alpha has been bagging telsa for years
        When it comes to Telsa seeking alpha is about as reliable as a lada.
        
        CJ I link to the bloody real life range of a Tesla using a large number of cars which like a good wingnut you denied
        Like you know actual data.
        Not someone random opinion piece in a rag.
        In your piece quotes Musks saying 15 years life.
        Which your opinion writer says he would take with a grain of salt
        No support for this opinion so its worthless.
        FT link is pay walled
        Neither are reliable or authoritative sources for information on battery life .
        
        The power walls have a ten year guarantee sunny
        you are telling me they are selling a product with a guarantee known to be more than 3 years longer than its life.
        Thats not how business works
        
        The NCA car batteries are only good for about 500 cycles,
        Shite I get better than that cycling cheap lead acid truck batteries .
        Real world data says the old technology was good for 230000km at better than 90% capacity
        You do know that is not what they are now using.
        Opps thats right
        You would rather rely on some randoms blog than data….
        
        ps tom I read the mit paper
        They talk of potential of limited supply at some time in the future ,
        They don’t see it as a catastrophic issue just transient limits on potential capacity
        There are over ten gigfactorys presently in planing stage
        I am sure the management of such industry will be aware of potential supply constraints and work towards expanding supply.
        
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        November 26, 2017 10:44pm
    - CJames
      
      As I thought, Griff, you cover your lack of knowledge with bullshit and bluster. As you seem incapable of learning anything that isn’t in a Tesla prospectus, here is a definition of a battery cycle
      http://www.mpoweruk.com/life.htm
      Note the DoD curve
      And note the effect of charging rate.
      Musk is a snake oil salesman – How many Model 3s have they actually made?
      Tom – I was looking at cars with about120kWh capacity – they are good for less than 4km/ kWh once you use lights and heating/ airconditioning and all those other features ICE take for granted. You will need a lot of Cobalt for new steels. This is just not specialty high strength materials but even relatively common grades.
      
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      November 27, 2017 6:10am
tom hunter

Housing? Immigrants? Manus Island?

Hmmmm – I think this might be a bigger story….South China Morning Post: Main link between China and North Korea to be cut when Friendship Bridge closes ‘for repairs’.

The quote marks make it seem like even the editors don’t think it’s the real reason.

The closure of the Sino-North Korean Friendship Bridge in Dandong, Liaoning province will only be “temporary” as the North Korean side carries out maintenance, foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang told a press conference on Friday.

Ok.

It is the route of 80 per cent of trade and a large amount of personal travel between the neighbours.

They’d close a route like that for maintenance? Is this really North Korea’s idea – or is it China’s, and the Koreans are just saving face?

Could China possibly not want an open corridor that might allow tens of thousands of people to escape …. something newly terrible that’s just happened (or about to happen) in North Korea?

And there have also got to be some serious questions going on about the real condition of the North Korean military in the wake of the godawful physical condition of that defecting North Korean soldier the other day. Worms and other parasites in his gut: things not seen in thirty years by his South Korean doctors?

I’d be willing to bet that the Chinese know more than they’re letting on – and perhaps the Yanks also.
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November 26, 2017 12:58pm
- treadingthemill
  
  Is a Chinese backed coup possible? Beijing can’t be happy with NK’s shenanigans.
  
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  November 26, 2017 1:06pm
- tom hunter
  
  Is a Chinese backed coup possible?
  
  Who knows. But nobody else could pull it off. It’s what I’ve been hoping for, for years. In a world of shitty options for avoiding vast numbers of deaths in Korea, it’s the least shitty.
  
  However, I think Beijing was perfectly happy with NK’s “shenanigans” for two decades – as long as it kept the US occupied and on the back foot. But the monster’s escaped the lab and the Chinese are perhaps belatedly aware that they’re not in control and vulnerable too.
  
  If the murderous little shit in NK can smash one of his few decent relationships (with Malaysia) by assassinating a half-brother in their main airport, then the Chinese can’t be sure he won’t trash their relationship too – rationality be damned.
  
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  November 26, 2017 1:13pm
- Paulus
  
  Understand that the bridge is a serious route of the Black Marketeers – both ways.
  
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  November 26, 2017 1:54pm
Manolo

Will the pervert end up in jail?
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/nov/24/harvey-weinstein-police-investigations

Detectives in several cities investigating Harvey Weinstein for sex crimes are likely to be collaborating as they build evidence and assess whether the film producer can be arrested and charged, experts believe.
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November 26, 2017 1:23pm
Digmen1

I am really surprised that China is closing the bridge.
I am sure that’s where NK gets most of its imports and exports.
So it may mean finally that China are starting to tighten up the screws.
Now it just needs an effective naval blockade and they will be starved out in a few months. Oil and food etc.
Meanwhile some air drops of food parcels and toys would be a good ploy. Let them see what they are missing out on with Fat Boy.
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November 26, 2017 3:05pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  South Korea, the USA and the UN are still supplying food aid to N.Korea.
  https://globalnews.ca/news/3797235/north-korea-aid-money/
  I don’t think they will let another bout of mass starvation occur in NK as it did in 1990.
  
  But if starvation conditions do develop throughout much of N.Korea, then folks will attempt to cross the Tumen and Yalu into China during winter when the rivers freeze.
  
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  November 26, 2017 3:33pm
Digmen1

There are some jobs going in North Korea.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1077084.shtml

As replacements for these guys (never to be seen again?)
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November 26, 2017 3:11pm
Doubledimp

Oooh, some actual reasoned discussion on the treaty that runs contrary to the current “newspeak”. Even money that the MSM link this to Don Brash and his Orewa speech.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/99247542/sir-william-gallagher-claims-treaty-of-waitangi-coverup
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November 26, 2017 4:34pm
- treadingthemill
  
  I read the article, and his views did not look reasoned to me. In fact the guy came across as a nutter.
  
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  November 26, 2017 4:50pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Looks to have a pretty good business head
    http://www.hitech.org.nz/awards/flying-kiwis/sir-william-gallagher/
    
    10 1
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    November 26, 2017 5:34pm
    - treadingthemill
      
      So did Henry Ford.
      
      1 10
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      November 26, 2017 5:36pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Whose legacy was the Ford Foundation…
        
        https://www.fordfoundation.org/ideas/equals-change-blog/posts/a-call-for-moral-courage-in-america/
        
        7 2
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        November 26, 2017 5:57pm
      - treadingthemill
        
        And, other legacies.
        
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1445822/Ford-used-slave-labour-in-Nazi-German-plants.html
        
        https://www.thenation.com/article/ford-and-fuhrer/
        
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        November 26, 2017 6:03pm
      - Jack5
        
        Treadingthemill, surely you don’t think that Ford or anyone in America had any say over what happened in Ford plants in Germany after America entered World War 2?
        
        Ford was pretty racist, including towards Jews, but some of his actions might appeal to socialists. Didn’t Ford with his five-dollar day wages lift wage rates throughout industrial USA? I think he also cut daily hours to eight.
        
        http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/03/history/post-perspective/ford-doubles-minimum-wage.html
        
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        November 26, 2017 6:29pm
      - treadingthemill
        
        @ Jack5
        
        Treadingthemill, surely you don’t think that Ford or anyone in America had any say over what happened in Ford plants in Germany
        
        Ford himself was a big supporter of the Nazis, donating a vast sum of money to their campaigns.
        
        but some of his actions might appeal to socialists
        
        I have no doubt, but I wasn’t making a comment about the right or the left, or capitalism vs socialism. My point was simply that having a good head for business does not mean someone cannot be badly wrong, to the point of being nutty, on other issues unrelated to business.
        
        I found some of Gallagher’s claims nutty, such as that Maori in the Treaty mean’t all New Zealanders, and that the Treaty documents themselves are frauds.
        
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        November 26, 2017 6:44pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I know precisely why you put up Henry Ford… but you clearly didn’t read the link I gave to the Ford Foundation…a plea for racial harmony in the US.
        
        You haven’t provided any arguments against Gallagher’s speech; you just out of hand said he came across as a nutter.
        
        Haven’t you told us that you think for yourself, don’t follow the pack, etc?… but here you are Mr Anonymous, dismissing one of NZ’s successful industrialists as a nutter without presenting arguments as to why the man is a nutter.
        (Note you have said he comes across as a nutter… not that a couple of his views are nutty)
        
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        November 26, 2017 7:06pm
      - treadingthemill
        
        @ Maggy
        
        You haven’t provided any arguments against Gallagher’s speech; you just out of hand said he came across as a nutter.
        
        Yup, sometimes I will do that. Other times I might put arguments up. That’s my prerogative. In this case I was happy to just say he’s a nutter. I’m sure other people can make up their own minds about that without my help.
        
        but here you are Mr Anonymous, dismissing one of NZ’s successful industrialists as a nutter without presenting arguments as to why the man is a nutter.
        
        My name is Robert Cochrane, if that’s important to you. His arguments speak for themselves. And yes, I do think for myself. In this case I think he’s a nutter. If I wanted to follow the KB pack I would be falling over myself to praise him.
        
        dismissing one of NZ’s successful industrialists
        
        That was the point of my reference to Ford. Just because he’s a successful industrialist does not mean I have to take him seriously on any other issue, including Treaty issues. I don’t have to take him seriously on the best way to perform heart surgery either.
        
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        November 26, 2017 7:17pm
      - Jack5
        
        However, Treadingthemill, Gallagher’s views on what is a political issue are not necessarily worth less than those of a heart surgeon.
        
        The German-Ford link is interesting, and the German-Ford connection is more complicated than I realised.
        
        While Ford received a “Grand Cross” from the Nazis , Watson of IBM received the next level down of the award. I don’t hear talk of IBM-Nazi links.
        
        Here’s an interesting view of the Left’s link of “Fordism” – capitalism – with the Nazis. It’s from a dissertation by a Harvard Ph.D. candidate, Stefan Link, presumably the same Stefan Link who is now an economic history professor at the Ivy League research university, Dartmouth College. (The link to the full article follows):
        
        The idea that there is a structural link between Fordism and fascism was first articulated by Antonio Gramsci. The Italian heterodox Marxist saw in Fordism a new global phase of capitalist self-renewal radiating from the United States around the world. Europe, which historically trailed the US, sought to catch up by introducing Fordism without the necessary underlying social structure, so it had to rely on force.
        
        “For this reason,” Gramsci wrote, “the introduction of Fordism [in Europe] takes place in particularly brutal and insidious forms, and by means of the most extreme coercion,” which was “objectively” necessary to impose the discipline on the working classes that capital in an age of mass production required.
        
        Gramsci, writing in 1930, was, of course, referring to Italian Fascism. But his diagnosis had ramifications for a whole host of interpretations from Dimitroff ’s thesis to the Frankfurt School, which both saw in National Socialism the unleashed coercive potentials of a capitalist society in deep economic crisis. To this day, the Nazi flirtation with Fordism is sometimes taken as a sure sign of the structural affinity between Nazi coercion and rationalized capitalism.
        
        https://www.ghi-dc.org/fileadmin/user_upload/GHI_Washington/Publications/Bulletin49/bu49_135.pdf
        
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        November 26, 2017 8:53pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Jack5
        
        Some Holiday reading, perhaps?
        http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/black-ibm.html
        
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        November 26, 2017 8:59pm
      - Jack5
        
        That’s interesting, and thanks Maggy. Now I’ve heard of the use of IBM by the Nazis, and this raises a lot of questions.
        
        Where do you draw the line between business and conscience? What about a vegan salesperson peddling computer technology to a meat works?
        
        What links ISIL to Western technology generally and specifically to the internet, to Facebook, Twitter, to GPS and to cellphones?
        
        Extremists feed on the technology developed in democratic countries.
        
        An interesting example of cross-culture co-operation occurred in NZ during World War 2, according to a story I heard. A team of German brewery technicians updating Dominion Breweries in Auckland were trapped by the outbreak of war. Instead of being interned they were allowed to continue working at the brewery throughout the war. That’s a more civilised technology swap.
        
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        November 26, 2017 9:35pm
nasska

News: Facebook asks for users’ nude photos to help fight revenge porn.

Oh, so NOW they want photos of me in the all together? 🙂

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/11/08/facebook-asks-users-nude-photos-can-block-revenge-porn-later/
5 0
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November 26, 2017 4:38pm
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  They can have mine as well. This will stop the pornos.
  Grandaughter knows about it and has declined – wonder why? She does not want Facebook protection? especially with the Suckerberg that owns it, and is a Demo?
  
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  November 26, 2017 5:35pm
flipper

Flipper has been enjoying a quiet day, basking in the reflected glory ( 🙂 ) of yet another demolition of Wales and Australia by the ABs and the rising Scots.

But is was depressing to return to this post this PM. and find that noptho9mg has changed in respect of idiots like Morrissey, Hughie soggy Pavlova and a few other dimwits such as the pot smoking Griffie. What is good to see and read about is a rising tide of anger over the personal attacks by another blogger. Yep, the one that purports to be an expert on politics but then ignores the fundamental rule of:” business not personal” – in dealing with something age-old and stupid (personal v Pater) in the world of politics. And then there are the demented ravings of the Labour/NZF/Redmelon apparatchiks.
I have enjoyed Kevin O’B’s observations on tax. What they really say to me is that the bunch of numpties in the Peters (Mr Dementia, no less)/Ardern Regime are besotted with their own bullshit. Those fuckwits have already shot off their feet. They have started on their legs. Oh dear. What a pity. But NZ will benefit !!

Now…. where do we start on the MSM ????
10 5
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November 26, 2017 5:28pm
Johnboy

I hope all you chaps are bearing with Dame Susan as her team work serious overtime to refute Sir William Gallaghers claim that the emperors clothes are indeed non-existent? 🙂
14 1
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November 26, 2017 6:05pm
- Jack5
  
  As you note, Johnboy: More crap for Dame Devoid and Jacinderella and her Maori MPs to cope with …
  
  Technology magnate Sir William Gallagher says the Treaty of Waitangi is a fraudulent document, and the Foreshore and Seabed Act is an example of the Government handing over the rights of all New Zealanders to Maori.
  
  Gallagher also said:”It’s separatism. This is apartheid. There is no definition of Maori … You are Maori if you feel you are Maori.”
  
  Yep, Sir Bill left out the macrons, Stuff put them in, and I’ve taken them out as, Kiwiblog, unlike Stuff, mostly publishes in English rather than in NZ Pidgin.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/99247542/sir-william-gallagher-claims-treaty-of-waitangi-coverup
  
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  November 26, 2017 6:18pm
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Don’t forget the ‘chapesses’ Johnboy. She will have a piece of you if she can. Equal bullshit for the girls right?
  
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  November 26, 2017 6:20pm
Johnboy

“… You are Maori if you feel you are Maori.” ”
Sometimes when my old fuckin lawn mower wont start and I look over the fence at my neighbours new Lawnmaster I feel like a Murri! 🙂
9 1
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November 26, 2017 6:23pm
- Jack5
  
  And for a thousand bucks plus you can get a shiny battery-powered mower. The Melon Greens will make them compulsory.
  
  10 0
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  November 26, 2017 6:31pm
  - sooty
    
    They will be all called # Morrison # .
    
    5 0
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    November 26, 2017 7:11pm
waikatogirl

Who has had their mobile phone loudly beeping with the “Test Message – Emergency Mobile Alert System” sent in case of a local or national emergency such as earthquake, Tsunami or I guess volcanic eruption, etc. from the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management?

Hubby received his emergency alert approx a minute before my phone beeped for me, so he has stated he is obviously far more important and worth saving ahead of me. Ever the charming one. ?
8 0
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November 26, 2017 6:29pm
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  You beat me by one minute.
  Someone is watching you – and me
  
  5 0
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  November 26, 2017 6:40pm
Steve (North Shore)

I just got this:
https://ema.civildefence.govt.nz/
Now it is Sunday, but working days my cellphone is in the lunchroom (I am not a teen, the phone is not an extention of my arm)
It is a test to make sure Nth Korea, boat people from fuck knows where, tsunami from Chili, Rangitoto has blown a gasket, or my ex wife is on the way to kill me.
How about I take care of myself?
6 2
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November 26, 2017 6:30pm
Victor Omega

Ffs my phone just went ape shit at the worst possible time. Civil defence… IN DA HOUSE!!

Here’s a handy handy dandy little guide to shut off govt alerts, despite the “you cannot opt out” message. Foxtrot Oscar, Mo Fos.

https://www.howtogeek.com/232505/how-to-disable-emergency-alerts-on-your-smartphone/

You’re welcome.
6 3
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November 26, 2017 6:36pm
- waikatogirl
  
  Weird alert, Barely long enough to register and nothing Urgent about it.
  
  5 0
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  November 26, 2017 6:56pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Thanks. CD are a bunch of fuckwits and I have no confidence in their ability to do anything effective in an emergency other than put out lots of cones and issue hazard vests. I’ll rely on my training to keep alive in any emergency. Fortunately, my phone is not compatible, but if they do start sending out these things I’ll just switch the bloody thing off.
  
  2 2
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  November 26, 2017 9:51pm
VicParking

Since when did we become a socialist country where the government controls our telephones. I turned emergency alerts off on my phone and did not expect to get the alert tonight. Well no, the government knows best for us. This is just the start, the door is opened and before too long we will all be getting messages from out great leader asking us to report for tree planting.
13 2
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November 26, 2017 6:37pm
- Johnboy
  
  You better fuckin hurry. We’re 8383500 behind schedule already! 🙂
  
  13 1
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  November 26, 2017 6:40pm
  - nasska
    
    What’s got me buggered is where they’re going to plant half a billion odd trees.
    
    Expect Bugs Bunny’s sister to sequester your front lawn next planting season. 🙂
    
    8 1
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    November 26, 2017 6:45pm
    - Johnboy
      
      I’m beginning to think they are talking virtual trees nasska. Sort of like my virtual flock! 🙂
      
      9 1
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      November 26, 2017 6:50pm
- treadingthemill
  
  @VicParking
  
  It’s just a civil defense alert test, for things like tsunamis. It’s not a prelude to compulsory work camps.
  
  3 10
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  November 26, 2017 6:50pm
  - Johnboy
    
    Stalin would have said that if he had 4G in 1930! 🙂
    
    12 1
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    November 26, 2017 6:51pm
  - Victor Omega
    
    Wrong.
    
    As well as Civil Defence, police, the Fire Service, the Ministry of Health and the Ministry for Primary Industries has access to the system.
    
    7 0
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    November 26, 2017 6:53pm
    - treadingthemill
      
      Of course. All of those ministries are relevant to civil defense emergencies. Do you often see black helicopters circling your home?
      
      4 6
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      November 26, 2017 7:21pm
      - nasska
        
        I’ve seen them but I’ve always thought that they were full of NZ Police wannabe Rambos waiting to leap out & confiscate marijuana plants. 🙂
        
        7 0
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        November 26, 2017 7:28pm
  - nasska
    
    …..”It’s not a prelude to compulsory work camps.”…..
    
    How do you know? How come you’ve got the inside oil?
    
    Spill the beans. 🙂
    
    9 0
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    November 26, 2017 6:53pm
    - Johnboy
      
      He’s been talking to Milkey nasska. Now we know why the old comrade is far to busy to talk to us! 🙂
      
      7 1
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      November 26, 2017 6:56pm
    - treadingthemill
      
      How do you know?
      
      Commonsense, and a lack of paranoid hysteria. Here is the news item about it. It’s just an early warning system in case of emergencies.
      
      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/only-one-third-nz-mobile-phones-capable-receiving-emergency-warning
      
      And the CD page about it.
      
      https://www.civildefence.govt.nz/get-ready/civil-defence-emergency-management-alerts-and-warnings/emergency-mobile-alert/
      
      3 6
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      November 26, 2017 7:04pm
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Minister of Security seems to think we need to know how important the Prime Minister and the Minister of Security is.
  Supreme Commander Comrade
  
  11 0
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  November 26, 2017 6:56pm
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Ooohh ooohhlook at the leftie corksoakers coming the the Civil Defence and Supreme Leaders’ defence.
  
  11 1
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  November 26, 2017 6:59pm
  - treadingthemill
    
    I’m not a leftie, and if it’s only being tested now, it’s been in the pipeline for a while, which means the program was begun under National.
    
    6 5
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    November 26, 2017 7:05pm
    - waikatogirl
      
      About as effective as a chocolate teapot.
      
      7 0
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      November 26, 2017 7:12pm
    - nasska
      
      Comrade Treadingthemill is obviously trying desperately to avoid a tour of duty at the Lake Grassmere saltworks. 🙂
      
      12 1
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      November 26, 2017 7:15pm
    - Steve (North Shore)
      
      Way back in 2004 and now resurrected – to provide JOBS for those who can not WORK
      
      3 1
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      November 26, 2017 7:58pm
Morrissey

PUBLIC NOTICE

We, the team at Daisycutter Sports Inc., have recently curated a number of educational/political series, viz., “Loons of Our Time”, “Deadbeat Dads”, and (perhaps most popular) “Gropers”.

These series have attracted much comment, a lot of it adverse. Well, we have listened to your concerns, and have decided to start a new, much more upbeat and positive, series, entitled “Heroes”. It’s a simple idea: we aim to honour those courageous and brilliant people who show us that, in a world seemingly run by crooks, abusers, scoundrels, mass murderers and liars, there are still reasons for optimism. (We remain committed to “Loons”, “Dads” and “Gropers”, and they will continue to appear.)

No. 1 in our “Heroes” series will begin tomorrow. We trust you will enjoy it as much as we have enjoyed preparing it.

Morrissey Breen (researcher)
Edwin Pudge (copyboy)
Serena Sopwith-Fotherington (secretary)
Jack A. Napes (Editor in Chief)
1 17
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November 26, 2017 7:36pm
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Nice try Penny
  
  8 0
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  November 26, 2017 7:59pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Morrissey:
  
  Let me guess: Nicky Hager, Tame Iti and Jane Kelsey are on your “hero” list?
  
  12 0
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  November 26, 2017 8:40pm
- starboard
  
  Morrissey Breen…fudge packer.
  
  8 2
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  November 26, 2017 9:38pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Labor-Greens not good mates in Inner Melbourne

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/battle-for-inner-melbourne-as-labor-and-greens-fight-for-electorate-boundary-changes-20171126-gzt487.html
5 0
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November 26, 2017 8:52pm
Nostradamus

Cops launch ‘World’s Most Entertaining’ video to lure recruits

[A] new recruitment video launching today aims to pique the interest of wannabe cops and boost New Zealand’s law enforcement numbers. “The World’s Most Entertaining Police Recruitment Video” has just gone live in a bid to attract hundreds of new cops to apply.

And as the title suggests – the video is an action-packed and comedic take on policing in Aotearoa.

The video, which runs for two-and-a-half minutes, stars a huge range of police staff “in a fun, fast paced sequence” and features all the different facets of police work, from the Armed Offenders Squad, to the dive and dog squads, the Eagle helicopter and youth aid officers, as well as frontline work. The Auckland Police pipe band also makes a cameo appearance – as well as Black Ferns captain and policewoman Fiao’o Faamausili and Sergeant Sonny Iosefo who hit headlines with his dance moves in the police running man challenge.

It’s lovely that they’ve decided to make “The World’s Most Entertaining Police Recruitment Video” – but armed robberies and home invasions aren’t really that funny.
5 1
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November 26, 2017 10:10pm
Jack5

Even Russia is reducing its quota of immigrants:

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russia-curbs-migrant-quotas-in-2018-59690
3 1
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November 26, 2017 11:12pm
softail 1450

this morning, 27th jacinda is still “having conversations” about everything although back peddling on the 10,000 houses,surprise surprise .
2 0
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November 27, 2017 6:46am
Manolo

Perverts everywhere among the Democrtas:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/nancy-pelosi-john-conyers-deserves-due-process-n823991
1 0
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November 27, 2017 7:01am

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