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October 4, 2017 4:00pm by David Farrar

Where do Greens do best for votes?

Whale Oil takes an interesting look at where the Greens do best in the party vote. The results may surprise you.

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Comment39

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Greens

Comments (39)

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s.russell

Whale Oil’s analysis is pretty meaningless really.

1) He observes that the Greens did poorly in poor electorates. Well of course. The Greens are not a party for poor people, they are a party for Chardonnay-drinkers who emote about poor people. This is not new.

2) He also suggests that that the fact the Greens do better in wealthier National-voting seats is evidence that Green voters prefer National to Labour. No. That is not a logical conclusion. The correlation is explained by point 1) above. The fact that other voters in those electorates like National does not mean that Green voters in those electorates like National too.
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October 4, 2017 4:14pm
- BlairM
  
  Him no so smart. And yes, the Greens have always been the real party of rich white people. Yet another reason why ACT should stop chasing the few dozen urban liberals who like capitalism.
  
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  October 4, 2017 4:52pm
  - Camryn
    
    Polling booth analysis of my own electorate would agree with that. The local theory is stay-at-home parents “guilt voting” Green to “balance out” their breadwinning partner voting National.
    
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    October 4, 2017 5:00pm
- cmm
  
  But the point is the Chardonnay sucking Green supporters don’t actually want to swill it with the blue collar/white gumboot crowd.
  
  They have some common political goals with Labour and are prepared to tolerate them on that basis, but not actually mix with them.
  
  Engels and Marx were the first Chardonnay socialists: they didn’t slum it with the workers (nor did they work). Nope, they lived it up having massive parties, supported by allowances from their capitalist families.
  
  It is far easier for National to sell itself across different classes than either the Greens or Labour because National have not been trying to work class division for their political agenda.
  
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  October 4, 2017 5:09pm
  - Tillwin
    
    Well said.
    National =National;
    Labour= WTF
    
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    October 4, 2017 9:22pm
- Ross12
  
  I think the key sentence in the article is
  “The Green membership is clearly not at all the same as the Green voters.”
  I think there would be quite a few like Lance Wiggs, who in a column in the NBR pushed for a Nat/Green alliance and admitted he voted for Nicky Kaye but gave his party vote to the Greens.
  The point being it is the die hard Green members who hold back any ideas of change but there are a significant number of people out there who gave their party vote, at least, to the Greens who are not members and would like to see them take a different tact. Obviously if they want that to happen in the future they will have to become party members.
  
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  October 4, 2017 6:02pm
stevedawgnz

I actually think that’s a pretty poor analysis of the trends, as it essentially ignores the interplay between Green-Labour competition for proper lefties, and Labour-National competition for centrists.

Far better is this one, despite the pathetic caption on the opening image:
http://vjmpublishing.nz/?p=4830
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October 4, 2017 4:19pm
Rich Prick

The Green Party has, by far, the best looking women, but that couldn’t prevent their party vote from collapsing at the 2017 General Election

Funny how they start with that, then go on to explain that the Greens shed support from precisely the demographics that would be least influenced by “looks”. In short, Meteria fucked it completely.
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October 4, 2017 4:28pm
- cmm
  
  “The Green Party has, by far, the best looking women”. Maybe right now that is true, but the same didn’t hold true when op-shop-dressed Bradford and co were the vogue.
  
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  October 4, 2017 5:11pm
kowtow

In the top 10 he’s left out Dunedin North with 4081. Suggesting students , Turei admirers etc were still big on the Watermelons. That was a strong Labour seat , though a high profile Gnat , Woodhouse ran there , he was well thumped.
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October 4, 2017 4:37pm
Huevon

Doctors’ wives…
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October 4, 2017 5:03pm
DifferentPerspective

Soo…. we’re surprised that the Greens appeal to vapid virtue-signallers in the middle class?

Not really!
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October 4, 2017 5:07pm
- stevedawgnz
  
  This is the equivalent of a leftie saying National voters are all selfish.
  
  Uninsightful & unhelpful.
  
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  October 4, 2017 5:18pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Greens are a party of fools led by the biggest idiot James Waste of Space Shaw who will warm the opposition benches for another 3 years.
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October 4, 2017 5:12pm
- cmm
  
  Green voters/supporters are primarily female.
  
  They will keep him as the co-penis because he shuts up and listens to women as he learned to do in a two-mum household.
  
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  October 4, 2017 5:21pm
  - Paulus
    
    When his new Joint leader Golriz Ghahraman takes over he will be severely shadowed.
    Unlike the fraudster she has high ambition and is a great Human Rights activist.
    And a very supportive political writer partner, for the Herald.
    
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    October 4, 2017 5:34pm
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Julie Ann Gentleman will be the new co-co-leader.
      
      1 1
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      October 4, 2017 5:37pm
- Manolo
  
  Let us hope so!
  
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  October 4, 2017 6:42pm
- Paulus
  
  It is in opposition that the Greens want to be so they can spend all their time bitching and complaining at everything.
  Imagine being party to Labour having to accept what the sharing agreement means and having to accept the cabinet decision even if they has a member there.
  Cabinet Responsibility.
  At the same time labour will use them unmercifully and piss all over them again as Clark did before. Do they not recognise that Labour has even less time for them than National even.
  The 93% who did not vote for them are similarly inclined.
  Chardonnay drinking middle class, well educated, principally women, Socialists.
  Generally despised by almost all.
  
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  October 5, 2017 1:13pm
Huevon

Wellington Central needs a decent purge.
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October 4, 2017 5:13pm
- cmm
  
  The only way to do that is to provide a better trough for them to put their snouts into.
  
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  October 4, 2017 6:49pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Folks – here is my theory of why Winnie will end up with National.

1. Winnie can’t stomach Greens in the cabinet. So he will tell Tooth Fairy to kick Greens out. Greens will say if you kick us out, we will support National. Tooth Fairy will relay this information to Winnie.

2. Winnie will have no option except to go with National.
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October 4, 2017 5:34pm
- Rich Prick
  
  That, or Winston will lose a seat on the specials, the Greens won’t pick one up (why would the specials buck the election trend – they shed half their support as it was) and National picks one or two up from all of that and from redistributed Maori Party votes from Australia, Cindy gets her wish not to be PM, and we’re all happy.
  
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  October 4, 2017 6:09pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Hope you’re right Cullen.
    
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    October 4, 2017 6:30pm
  - s.russell
    
    The clear historical pattern is that Special Votes are cast by a slightly different group from ordinary votes. and that group is much more Left-Wing.
    
    In 2014, when specials were added into the count National’s proportion of the total vote declined by a full percent. Labour and the Greens got a higher proportion of special votes than ordinary votes, hence their total percentage rose.
    
    The number of special votes at this election is up a third on 2014.
    
    Maori Party votes don’t get redistributed to National. They simply drop out of the count (as far as seats are concerned) and make no difference.
    
    I’d love for National to gain seats on the final count. But the chances of that happening are extremely remote.
    
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    October 4, 2017 6:48pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      The clear historical pattern is that Special Votes are cast by a slightly different group from ordinary votes.
      
      An oft repeated “fact” by the media, but only because it saw seats change hands in 2014, and that got the media fizzing. I hope I’m not wrong, but I don’t think this election will see that effect.
      
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      October 4, 2017 8:24pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Hope you’re right too RP.
  
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  October 4, 2017 6:29pm
David Garrett

FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!

Where does this myth regarding “redistributing party votes” for a party failing to get 5% (or an electorate seat) come from?

Here’s the relevant section of the Electoral Act 1993:

section 191 …..
……
(4)

The Electoral Commission must disregard any total under the name of any party that—

(a)
has not achieved a total that is at least 5% of the total number of all the party votes received by all the parties listed on the part of the ballot paper that relates to the party vote; and

(b)
is a party in respect of which no constituency candidate who is either—

(i)
a candidate for that party; or

(ii)
a candidate for a component party of that party (being a component party that is not listed on the part of the ballot paper that relates to the party vote but is, in accordance with the details held by the Electoral Commission under any of the provisions of sections 127(3A) and 128A, a component party of that party)—

The “wasted party votes” are just that: wasted! They ARE NOT redistributed to other parties in any way shape or form (to invoke that wonderful old cliche)
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October 4, 2017 7:15pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Yes, it’s a lazy expression, but as I understand it because the final ballots aren’t counted all votes are still in the numbers. Once the sub-5% and no electorate Parties are out of the total vote the arithmetic effect is that the proportions of votes cast against a total changes due to wasted votes disregarded. The Maori Party is significant because it involves so many votes and National benefits the most by being the biggest on the night. Of course the votes aren’t reallocated, but proportionality is. 4 out of 10 is 40%, 4 out of 8 is 50%.
  
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  October 4, 2017 7:54pm
David Garrett

RP: Well, maths isn’t my strong point, but reading a fucking law – especially one as clear as that – is!

This “reallocation” myth is quite widely held…I am damned if I know where it came from…nothing the Electoral Commission has ever said – to the best of my knowledge – suggests any such reallocation…

Section 191 (4) is a clear as can be: those party votes for a party receiving less than 5% are disgregarded… ” the Electoral Commission MUST DISREGARD [those votes]…” It could hardly be plainer, surely?
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October 4, 2017 7:51pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Yes, that’s the position when all votes are finally counted and declared. We at best have an interim result at the moment.
  
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  October 4, 2017 7:56pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    I should say, we at best have an interim result at the moment with Maori, TOP and the other party votes in the total vote numbers until the count is declared. Then the disregarding happens and the result is declared. My understanding is that just can’t happen until the specials are in.
    
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    October 4, 2017 8:07pm
    - David Garrett
      
      RP: No, logically you are right…I guess at least theoretically, half the specials could be for TOP, so the disregarding can’t happen until they are all in…
      
      But I just don’t understand where this “reallocating votes” idea comes from, and it irritates me every time I see it…YES, I am a grumpy old prick!
      
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      October 4, 2017 9:12pm
      - Rich Prick
        
        It’s a product of the simpletons in the media trying to understand what the recalculation of proportionality means. They need tangible things like vote ballots to explain it. I think they are just that simple. Or they estimate their audience by their measure.
        
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        October 4, 2017 9:32pm
- BlairM
  
  The votes themselves are not redistributed. However, because their presence lowers the percentage share of other parties before they are discarded, it gives the appearance that those votes bolster the percentage share of other parties when that happens. In reality, those votes should be regarded as if they don’t exist. It is therefore misleading when those votes are included to produce percentages for successful parties that aren’t accurate and won’t reflect their share of seats.
  
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  October 5, 2017 6:30am
Colville

Dad works, earns lots and votes blue.
Mum stays home, ferries Sally and James to school (in the merc SUV) wearing yoga pants, drinks soy lattes and votes Green. But tells Dad she votes blue.
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October 4, 2017 8:48pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  So right Colville. But since Jacindazilla, they’ve also gone there.
  Why did women ever get the vote? We will have them to thank for fucking the country.
  
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  October 4, 2017 9:18pm
Catons

I pray the specials drop the Greens below 5%. Then we can have a majority National Government.
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October 5, 2017 8:17am
- jcuk
  
  Wishful thinking I think.
  
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  October 5, 2017 9:36am

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