General Debate 7 October 2017

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EAD_TWO

Great article by Duncan Garner as he asks “how does NZ want to look in 20 years”?.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/97625919/duncan-garner-dear-nz-how-do-we-want-to-look-in-20-years

This is the most important issue facing our nation but almost never gets discussed in a serious manner and whether by accident or design, is almost considered the third rail of NZ Politics with a whole army of Devoy type apparchticks and “commentators” ready to pounce unless you speak of our future in anything less than glowing terms. I mean, look how Garner feels the need to qualify himself before discussing the future we face:

None of what I say here in this column is intended to be racist or anti-foreigner.

But it most definitely should come across as being outwardly pro-NZ……

Immigration is great, but I’m not sure our traditional standard of living is enhanced by it

Garner then eloquently outlines the risks we are taking and nightmarish fututre we face before concluding:

People are lining up to come here because we are the last paradise on Earth.

Our small population is our winning card. Let’s not lose that.

Everything we do we must ask ourselves this question: Will this make our country better for those living in it now?

If the answer is no then we must pause, stop and think again. Your great-grandchildren will be so grateful. And it’s our legacy.

This needs to be the national debate we must have. Instead of addressing the root cause though, the cowards just dance around the elephant in room and we’ll keep on hearing story after story of traffic jams, religious extremism, unaffordable housing, social alienation or stories like sewage overflows when it rains because our infrastructure was not designed with all these people shitting in the toilets of our largest city:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/96781274/extraordinary-rain-causes-extraordinary-sewage-overflows-for-auckland-in-year-of-tasman-tempest-and-cyclone-debbie
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October 7, 2017 8:01am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  So true EAD
  
  However, the only thing we’re going to be saying to grandkids is
  
  “I’m so sorry we listened to the libtards and brought in the muslim supposed refugees who are now blowing you up and are running country-wide rape grooming gangs”
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:10am
- VicParking
  
  I worked for the old Auckland City Council in the early 2000’s. Seweage was overflowing into the stormwater system and flowing into the harbour then. The Tank farm at the Viaduct was leaking hydrocarbons into the harbour when it rained. These problems are not due to increased population but poorly maintained infrastructure so that the councils of the day could keep their rates down. Little has changed.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:16am
- Inandout
  
  Garner changes his views like the wind, but I bet at the back of all his arguments are his beloved ‘whanau’ that he married into, and wants to protect.
  He also cherry picks the subjects on his morning show and you won’t hear anything that isn’t carried and ‘cleansed’ by the MSM.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:17am
  - softail 1450
    
    you could be excused for thinking garner was trained by Helen Clark and heather Simpson.
    he is the reining champion of dog whistle journalism .
    
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    October 7, 2017 9:08am
- rightoverlabour
  
  I am an immigrant. I have lived here for 21 years and been meaningfully employed for that period. As has my wife. We have never been arrested, never defaulted on a mortgage payment, never been pulled over for speeding or other driving offences, never been on the benefit or in state housing, never been visited by CYFS, never taken drugs, manufactured P or dealt in the black market. Our kids have only been to hospital for genuine accidents. We pay our taxes, contribute to society, vote ( Blue of course), and have saved for our kids university education. The country would of course be better off with out us it would seem. And so many of the issues above are never a problem with the locals…..
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:18am
  - EAD_TWO
    
    @ rightoverlabour,
    
    people like you are welcome here as in fact are most individuals who pull their weight.
    
    But where do you draw the line? Because most people indivdually are decent citizens but should we just allow in all and sundry as long as they’re “good people”?
    
    How big should our country be and what does that mean for our NZ way of life?
    
    That is the question
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:24am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Hi I think a slightly larger population would probably be good for New Zealand, with one major caveat, needs to be out of Auckland. (10 Million would probably make the country large enough for sustainable public transport, etc and would provide the tax base for a successful economy). However, I agree that those who are allowed in must have the desire to assimilate and not demand change to fit their religious or cultural idiosyncrasies. And you can’t just base this on nationality. I studied with a young female Iranian doctor in Auckland who one would never guess was from the Middle East, as she was so western in her whole demeanour. For the most part, I think immigration has this right in terms of who they let in, but there are a few areas that do need scrutiny ( dodgy student visas, and Islamic Fundamentalists)
      
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      October 7, 2017 8:39am
      - jcuk
        
        My impression and not based on any research is that the refugees we let in are very grateful but the problems come from their children who are not supported and so have nothing to be grateful for.
        
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        October 7, 2017 8:53am
      - Jack5
        
        Rightoverlabour says at 8.39:
        
        … 10 Million would probably make the country large enough for sustainable public transport, etc and would provide the tax base for a successful economy.
        
        This is an export country, that has been in the exporting red for nearly half a century, and an export country where now GDP growth per capita has slowed to under 1 per cent under the weight of immigration.
        
        How is NZ going to export enough to support 10 million people?
        
        The idea that first, get the people, then industries and exports will magically arise is a dream, a cargo cult.
        
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        October 7, 2017 9:05am
      - Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
        
        “Jack5
        
        The idea that first, get the people, then industries and exports will magically arise is a dream, a cargo cult.”
        
        Population growth = economic growth.
        
        Our Globohomo managerial elite view us proles as 6 or 7 billion worker drones that are to be managed as interchangeable economic units in the Globohomo technocratic/economic machine.
        
        That’s why the technocratic elite talk shit all the time and propagandize about Diversity™, Multiculutralism™, Inclusiveness™ via the media, industrially produced pop culture and the education system.
        
        They want us to be compliant to their bureaucratic tinkering – transplanting millions of Dirt World vibrants – Pakis and Somalians into white nation heartlands that have suffered demographic declines, all for the technocratic Holy Grail: 3% GDP, 3% OCR, 3% Inflation.
        
        They are completely oblivious to all the research indicating Diversity + Proximity = Conflict.
        
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        October 7, 2017 9:43am
      - cmm
        
        “This is an export country, that has been in the exporting red for nearly half a century, and an export country where now GDP growth per capita has slowed to under 1 per cent under the weight of immigration.”
        
        That is a huge conflating of information.
        
        Yes, it is true that much of our experts are from agriculture and immigration does not boost agricultural output.
        
        However there are increasing exports in the high end service sectors (software, electronics, consulting engineering services,…). Those are largely dependent on high end immigration because there is a shortage of top-end skilled people in NZ.
        
        Of course just bringing in under qualified immigrants is not desirable. People need to be bringing skills or resources that are beneficial to NZ. If they don’t then don’t bring them in.
        
        The dodgy student visas are a problem, but that is a completely different matter.
        
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        October 7, 2017 9:45am
      - wiseowl
        
        A small population is our winning card.
        With respect ROL this is the key to me and one maybe many immigrants don’t understand especially if they live in Auckland.
        Many people in the regions don’t want more people.There are already enough problems and these will not be solved by adding a range of ethnic eating options or having all our dairies taken over by immigrants.
        I am reading Greg Clydedales book at the moment where he discusses how countries have used immigration in the past to change economies.He sites Argentina and what happened there.
        It is worth reading.
        The worst aspect is the government pushing mass immigration without any discussion and closing their ears when people question the agenda.
        Small population, great country.
        
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        October 7, 2017 11:02am
      - Jack5
        
        CMM’s 9.45 post included:
        
        However there are increasing exports in the high end service sectors (software, electronics, consulting engineering services,…). Those are largely dependent on high end immigration
        
        These exports are admirable, but they are insufficient and aren’t enabling us to climb out of decades of balance of payments deficits. As pointed out before in the thread, economic growth measured by GDP per capita is virtually stagnant, and has fallen in some recent quarters.
        
        We need technology industries, as everyone-else does but our immigration policies have been appalling compared with those of say, Israel, which has brought in hundreds of thousands of highly skilled Russians. This immigration, supplement by the military spending on research, has made Israel one of the world’s leading technology countries. Meanwhile the bulk of our immigrants staff fast-food joints, restaurants, taxis, real-estate firms, and dairies. Often these are tertiary students our immigration system has granted residence because of their perceived technology skills.
        
        In NZ, Rakon was great, but has now been under pressure. Tait Electronics once made radios for China’s civil police. I doubt it does now.
        
        Xero is a great success story, but it’s small in the big market, America, and new international start-ups are nipping at Xero’s heels.
        
        It would be superb if technology could lift NZ out of the economic doldrums, but sadly it can’t do it alone.
        
        Industries based on our natural resources – agriculture, tourism, forestry, fishing remain our best hopes.
        
        The problem is the number of people whose living standards our export industries have to support.
        
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        October 7, 2017 12:03pm
  - waikatogirl
    
    rol, as a 6th generation NZ’er I say you are exactly the type of immigrant NZ needs. We do not have issues with those who arrive, work and integrate.
    
    NZ society is not perfect but it is beyond belief that NZ’ers appreciate non-productive arrivals polluting our special Kiwi culture.
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:38am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    My personal litmus test for immigrants is: are they likely to pay a shit load of tax, and will their kids marry ordinary kiwis outside of their parents culture.
    
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    October 7, 2017 12:18pm
- Viking2
  
  “wasn’t shocked – we have reported this for three years – we have targeted immigrants, opened the gates and let in record numbers. This year’s net gain of migrants was 72,000.”
  
  Be great if he hadn’t started with a falsehood.
  This subject has been a cyclical newspaper filler as long as I can remember.
  50-60’s it was the poms and the Dutch.
  Then it was the Tongans, over stayers and the Samoans.
  We moved on to the Japanese then the Korean’s. Remember the takeover of Howick and its new name “Chowick”?
  We next went through 18 years of Labour and National driving Kiwi’s offshore. 30-40 thousand leaving each year because our country was run by useless idiot politicians who had a need to control everything. Bolger, Shipley, Clark. disgusting managers.
  Then things changed. We finally had a leader who didn’t need to control people, who understood what it took to make business work. Then we went forward.
  But like most things we do it went over the top and bought with it some not so nice such as money influence ( see http://www.croakingcassandra.co.nz ) and more ethnic groups than Kiwi’s wanted including some that live by an opposing philosophy. ( no one asked us.)
  
  Business in NZ supplies the money for everything ( Please note the Govt. surplus), and right now business has been the best I can ever recall in my working life. I grew up under subsidies for basics, subsidies for farmers, import controls, money controls (could not buy a new car but could a tractor),went through all the drama of the removal and the subsequent downturns to NZ business.
  Lately I read about the bleating from Boardrooms of companies that are bloated and staid. Time to push some out of their seats. You get what you work for! Its new place so up your game.
  
  My point really is that be careful what you wish for. Do you want to go back to the Bolger/Clark kind of economy or do you want to keep building our standard of living? Sure we can do things better and we need to temper the immigration rate and the type of people but lets not lock NZ down again.
  Its interesting actually when you look at immigration as a policy. The most consistent advocate of better immigration for over 25 years has been Winston Peters. His stance has never changed despite the National Party and others endeavoring to denigrate that same policy.
  
  Perhaps the worm will turn today.
  He may well become our next Minister of Immigration.
  Now won’t that be a turn up. ::LOL;
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:29am
- Jack5
  
  Population growth has begun to swamp economic growth in NZ.
  
  In the last financial year, GDP per capita grew less than 1 per cent and in some quarters it fell.
  
  Meanwhile, NZ has been running balance-of-payments for nearly half a century. Internationally, the country is selling off assets and borrowing to make ends meet.
  
  The tide of immigrants from the Pacific, China, and now India, socially, has hit NZ family life by stoking a property bubble, as the easing of prices with China capital export controls proves. Affordable housing is the basis of providing for families.
  
  NZ’s immigration policy under National has been a disaster.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:56am
  - softail 1450
    
    jack5,,,,we had nearly the same immigration numbers this year as the UK ,a country with near fifteen times our population,,,madness, and not one new hospital for ten years.
    
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    October 7, 2017 9:17am
    - Jack5
      
      I agree with softail 1450: our infrastructure, especially health and transport, is creaking.
      
      Our Treasury department seems mediocre, and the education sector with its citizenship-for-study rort seems to have had National politicians totally conned.
      
      The banking sector, with its economics departments pumping out propaganda to the media, has been anxious not to disturb the property bubble.
      
      With mortgages up to and over (for legal fees etc) of 100 per cent, chiefly financed by borrowing in Asia, the banksters will be in trouble in a bubble pop, so they want to keep the party roaring.
      
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      October 7, 2017 9:25am
    - Viking2
      
      NOT A GOOD COMPARISON. BRITAIN DIDN’T SPEND THE LAST 30 OR MORE YEARS LOSING MUCH OF ITS POPULATION TO EMMIGRATION AS WE HAVE.
      (sorry about the caps. can’t be bothered changing it.) (Some IT guy might make a key that can do that one day. Highlight and change. would be great for a fellow like me.)
      
      Ohand Tauranga has a new hospital almost as has Rotorua , Waikato. and probably others.
      
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      October 7, 2017 10:53am
      - Paulus
        
        Whakatane has a new fabulous hospital.
        Whilst part of BOP DHB runs a good ship – had op there recently – brand new and still being developed.
        
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        October 7, 2017 1:50pm
  - Viking2
    
    Pert capita GDP can only change if companies and producers become more efficient. Plenty of our big companies have a long way to go it seems. I guess the two stand outs are Airnz and Fonterra. Maybe not in bottom lines but increasing GDP per person requires research and development. Both are at the forefront of that. Taken Fonterra a while to get rid of the Kiwi/Dutch influence that made cow farmers rich and convert to being an exporter of value. More to come yet as well.
    
    Pity some of those moaningt CEO’s didn’t tke notice.
    Ironic that these two companies are now led by Immigrants. (bigger wrold views I guess.).
    
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    October 7, 2017 11:09am
- KevOB
  
  Get the NZ breeding program right. If Kiwis are too refined to maintain their population others of a different ilk will replace them. I hear many comments about such others being severely disliked–some because of them being beneficiaries.
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:17am
- EAD_TWO
  
  Check out the comments on the Stuff article – middle NZ is firmly behind Garner.
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:24am
  - Viking2
    
    Nah, Stuffs usual tribe of whingers. there every day.
    Interest.co has its tribe just like WO.
    
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    October 7, 2017 11:11am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Don’t think of it as an issue of immigration so much as as issue of kuni-zukuri (nation building). This includes immigration, infrastructure, and is a vision of the future. New Zealanders never talk about this, it seems to me.
  
  What sort of nation do the citizens of this country want to build? That is the question.
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:30am
  - Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
    
    The answer is clear:
    
    A white one – all the others suck. Just take a look at what countries have anything near a decent level of freedom and standard of living – white ones.
    
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    October 7, 2017 11:04am
    - Jack5
      
      Jeez, Kia, we’re having a reasonable discussion on immigration.Get back on your perch.
      
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      October 7, 2017 12:10pm
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Jazz,
      I suggest you take a vacation in Japan, and enjoy certain aspects of civility and good manners.
      
      (Ignore the graffiti in parts of Tokyo. I blame the jiggers for that.)
      
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      October 7, 2017 12:24pm
- kowtow
  
  If Dunkard made those comments in the US , UK or Europe his left wing colleagues in the Media Party would brand him a far right , ultra nationalist. And he would be promptly sacked and no one would want to sit next to him.
  
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  October 7, 2017 10:09am
- BananaLlama
  
  A good article i wonder if the diversity preachers here at Kiwiblog will get it through their thick ears.
  
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  October 7, 2017 10:21am
Manolo

Keeping an eye on Spain:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/05/catalonia-civil-war-warning-independence-declaration-fears-grow/

The EU’s budget commissioner has warned of the risk of “civil war” in Catalonia, as fears grew over a looming independence declaration and major banks prepared to relocate their headquarters.
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October 7, 2017 8:05am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  The EU is looking increasingly totalitarian as the seek to metaphorically bludgeon the UK through the Brexit talks and physically bludgeon the Catalonians for having the temerity to vote!
  
  Who can doubt the poms made the right choice when you see the blood on old Catalonian ladies after being beaten for wrongthink vote crimes against the state!
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:32am
- tom hunter
  
  Even with our election decision hangovers and US shooters, I’m amazed that DPF has not covered this story, because it really is huge.
  
  The impacts of Catalonia breaking from Spain and becoming independent will ripple across all of Europe. In theory the EU should have no problems with additional little nations becoming part of it – except of course that the EU has always been about the big battalions and they’re very worried about this.
  
  Here’s another good article on the subject, The Bells of Barcelona Toll for Europe. The writer describes a movement that was very well organised, not top-down elite-driven, and involved all sectors of Catalonia society, including local cops and fire brigades.
  
  PM Rajoy’s government depends on the Basque regional political party – and they’re famously supportive of being independent themselves. Will he go to war with Catalonia, the heart of the Spanish Civil War exactly 80 years ago? Most who lived through that are dead, but the horrors of it are well-remembered.
  
  The writer also points out the key drivers:
  
  They are tired of subsidizing the backward money-sinks of Spain’s southern provinces; they are hard-working and productive, and want to separate from the economically irreparable parts of Spain.
  …
  This is an existential crisis for the Spanish state, … Spain is at the cusp of a steep rise in the proportion of elderly dependents (from 25% of the economically active population to an insupportable 50% by 2050). The question comes down to who will be eaten first in the lifeboat: with the lowest fertility rate of any large European country, Spain cannot support its elderly, and the Catalans want to maintain themselves first.
  …
  Ultimately, the Catalan independence movement is a response to Europe’s demographic cataclysm.
  
  Most other regional independence movements don’t have the power of this one – but demographics don’t care about that and the resulting, varied types of pressures are growing on the “productive” parts of the Union.
  
  This is a much bigger deal than just independence for Catalonia.
  
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  October 7, 2017 10:13am
  - Jack5
    
    Excellent points, Tom.
    
    Merkel the Mad unleashed the hounds of Hell for Europe when she invited a million refugees in.
    
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    October 7, 2017 12:13pm
    - kowtow
      
      Spain is responsible for a lot of the shit European response , going back a long time . They could have taken a hardline but failed to .
      
      ‘Mr. Zapatero’s immigration policy has not always drawn applause. Spain’s decision to legalize 600,000 immigrants in 2005 infuriated some European partners, who believe it encouraged a flood of migrants.’
      
      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/11/world/europe/11spain.html
      
      Europe has been sending the wrong message for ages . Amnesties , bringing them in etc
      
      First they went to the Canaries , cos they could. Then through Turkey to Greece and now through collapsed Libya to Italy .
      
      There’ll be no end to it and Europe will become the shit hole these people are leaving. Thanks to the failure of European politicians to do their duty .
      
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      October 7, 2017 12:56pm
  - Paulus
    
    Surely Scotland is looking at Independence too out from the UK – but has no money without the UK as the North Sea oil is almost finished.
    
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    October 7, 2017 1:53pm
- Huevon
  
  To help keep my ear in Spanish, I’ve been following this issue in local media.
  
  Tom, this situation isn’t really related to demographic change. Catalonia has never really been part of Spain for almost 700 years. The independence movement is part of that tradition.
  
  Mariano Rajoy is a very moderate PM. He’s like a Spanish version of Bill English. His position is that the crisis needs to be dealt with under the constitution, which is very dear to Spanish hearts because it is widely credited for the peaceful transition to democracy after General Franco died. The Catalan separatists have been acting illegally, and that is becoming a major problem for them.
  
  The crisis also needs to be seen in context. Spainish politics have been chaotic ever since the GFC. You may recall, there had to be 2 general elections in 2015. The main left wing party (PSOE), which has dominated politics since the return to democracy, has largely imploded. The Catalans are taking advantage of the chaos in Madrid to push for independence.
  
  All very interesting. Lots of history and nuances involved, mixed with Latin passion. Best show in town at the moment.
  
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  October 7, 2017 11:01am
  - tom hunter
    
    Very interesting, Huevon. Thanks. I realise there’s a lot of gears in motion here, especially given the history of Catalonia in the Civil War – but what about the above comment that:
    
    They are tired of subsidizing the backward money-sinks of Spain’s southern provinces.
    
    ?
    
    Is that not so? And if true is that not at least partly a demographic issue? I guess it depends on whether the Catalonian birth rate is as low as the rest of Spain’s.
    
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    October 7, 2017 11:13am
    - Huevon
      
      Well, this video has a pro independence slant and gives about 101 reasons why independence would be better from the point of view of a typical family.
      
      https://youtu.be/t4fhJm8YMz4
      
      Less motorway tolls when you go on holiday!
      
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      October 7, 2017 12:55pm
Viking2

A couple of good reads this morning. History as it went by.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/last-post-first-light/97203345/suitcase-reveals-a-treasure-trove-of-one-mans-war

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2017/10/too-high-too-late-two-dead/
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October 7, 2017 8:05am
radvad

One to watch; Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
Check out this classic takedown od the MSM
http://www.dailywire.com/news/22001/watch-cnns-jim-acosta-gets-embarrassed-white-house-ryan-saavedra
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October 7, 2017 8:08am
Monique Watson

One night two drunks were wandering the town trying to get drinks, but between the two of them, they only had a dollar and change. So the first drunk says, “Hey, I’ve got an idea – we put our money together and buy a hot dog.”

The second drunk, looking at him puzzled, says, “What the hell? I don’t want a hot dog; I want a goddamn drink!”

The first says, “I know. We buy the hot dog, stick it down the front of my pants, go into a bar and order our drinks. When the bartender tells us the price, you drop to your knees and suck the hot dog like you’re sucking my dick – and the bartender will throw us out and we won’t have to pay for anything!”

The second drunk says, “Well, it sounds like a good enough idea to me.”

So they buy the hot dog and the first drunk sticks it down his pants. They go into a bar, order two whiskeys, and when the bartender tells them the price, the second drunk drops to his knees and sucks on the hot dog. The bartender throws them out and tells them not to come back.

The drunks go on to hit 19 bars. Finally, the second drunk says, “We’ve got to switch places ’cause my knees hurt from dropping to the floor.”

The first drunk says, “You think that’s bad? I lost the hot dog in the third bar!”
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October 7, 2017 8:11am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  This joke is so bad that I remember seeing it here about a month ago…
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:34am
Than

“Green leader James Shaw said he was confident of getting another seat and candidate Golriz Ghahraman was already attending caucus meetings because of the likelihood.”

If I were him I wouldn’t be counting chickens before they’re hatched. There are a couple of solid reasons to doubt the Greens will pick up another seat.

First, many special votes are cast early. That works against the Greens because in the last week or two of campaigning they rallied slightly (at Labour’s expense). The 2-3 weeks prior to the election was when they were at their low point, and many special votes would have been cast during that time.

Second, overseas votes. For the Greens these have historically came largely from young professionals working in other countries for a few years. But young professionals is a demographic that almost completely abandoned the Greens this year. There is no reason to think this wouldn’t apply equally to professionals casting vote from overseas.

Unfortunately, these same arguments imply Labour (and to a lesser extent TOP) should do better in the specials than they did on election night. Labour dropped a couple of points during the last weeks of campaigning so special votes cast early help them. And the young professionals that abandoned the Greens seem to have moved to Labour and TOP. My pick is that the Greens will not get an additional seat, but Labour will pick up one.
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October 7, 2017 8:12am
- radvad
  
  Good post. More reasons why early voting should be limited to one week prior to polling day.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:22am
  - Paulus
    
    OK, one week except Citizens in Overseas NZ Posts which can take a little longer to return.
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:27am
  - Viking2
    
    No not a good reason. you makes your choices when you do. No need to vote early but if you do that’s your choice. all good as far as I can see.
    
    People constantly make choices and regret them afterwards. Buyers remorse. Men and women 😆
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:33am
    - holysheet
      
      So all the political advertising had no detrimental effects on their decisions?
      This means that the rest of us who voted on the day, were too stupid and need protecting from our selves in not being able to ignore these party adverts?
      
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      October 7, 2017 9:24am
      - Viking2
        
        What party adverts? Turn on your ad blocker. Fuck I don’t need an advert to make up my mind about politics.
        Shit are you that simple?
        
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        October 7, 2017 11:13am
      - holysheet
        
        You call me thick. Look in the mirror. I was referring to all the political party hoardings that had to be taken down the night before the election on the Saturday. Why, when they have been up during the time early voting was going on.
        Explained now Thicko?
        
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        October 7, 2017 11:38am
      - Viking2
        
        Well if you read them and believe them go for it. I don’t even see them when I’m driving.
        Better things to be aware of.
        
        I do agree that it is mindlessly stupid to allow the signs for the two weeks of early voting and remove them the night before the last day.
        But politicians are not known for being straight forward.
        
        But I guess they figure there is always someone who needs help!
        
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        October 7, 2017 1:27pm
- VicParking
  
  Lets hope that the Blog today will not be full of people trying to second guess the final postion of the parties. We had the MSM doing that all week. They have gone quiet today so that they dont get it wrong. Lets just wait. Tomorrow you can cheer, or moan and predict as much as you like.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:26am
  - sooty
    
    The MSM have been wrong all week. So why would today be different!
    
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    October 7, 2017 12:04pm
- DifferentPerspective
  
  I hope you are right Than, a Green muslim in Parliament will be another nail in the coffin of our democracy and a huge step towards all the terror and vileness that accompanies spreading muslimification in western countries.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:30am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Why DP? We’ve already had a Labour Muslim MP, and a National MP who is/was married to a Muslim, and the world hasn’t stopped turning.
    
    My objection to Ms Ghahraman is more based on her political ideology than her religion, in particular her wholehearted support of Metiria Turei in the wake of Turei’s benefit fraud admission. In that, she was joined by Christians, agnostics and atheists, which suggests that Entitleitis crosses any religious barriers.
    
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    October 7, 2017 9:39am
    - Harriet
      
      You can’t differentiate between a Muslim’s religion and their politics – as it’s one and the same under Islamic doctrine.
      
      I’d say that Ghahraman is largely like the Democrat Pelosi —- Catholic in name only!!
      
      And Turnball and English too for that matter! 😎
      
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      October 7, 2017 11:17am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        She’s shagging an infidel (unmarried?). And hanging out in a party that venerates LBGTQ-alphabet, muslim heritage, but pretty far from being a good muslim. Also persian, so stronger intellectual heritage than most muslims.
        
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        October 7, 2017 12:25pm
    - doggone7
      
      And did you also have objections to those with their whole-hearted supported support for English lying about Clutha, McCully’s lying and our money that went along with those?
      
      Entitleitis crosses political barriers too.
      
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      October 7, 2017 12:31pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Yet we don’t see any objections from you when you suggest it’s ok for Ardern to lie during Question Time.
        
        ‘She can copy the Key/English model and simply lie and obfuscate in Question Time.’
        
        Hypocrite.
        
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        October 7, 2017 12:43pm
- softail 1450
  
  how’s that for green arrogance? already attending fricking meetings ,it’s nauseating actually.
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:22am
  - RF
    
    This is when you have impure thoughts and hope like hell she gets her arse handed to her.
    
    That will up set mummy’s (2) milksop boy.
    
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    October 7, 2017 10:09am
- Rich Prick
  
  I’d like to see the Greens lose a seat for Shaw’s arrogance alone. But also his election night speach and his support for benefit fraud before that.
  
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  October 7, 2017 11:05am
- Paulus
  
  But Golriz G, another speaker who cannot stop, is being touted as the next Joint Leader so she will have to get in.
  
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  October 7, 2017 1:55pm
Happychappy

Another 6 days left before we get the coalition from hell and then you will see all the people on here that voted NZ First blaming everyone else for their wanting to teach National a lesson. They are already saying that Jacinda won’t last but in nine years time when her popularity could match John Key it might just surprise you that she could still be leading a Labour Government. As the saying goes you get what you deserve but the majority could see it and have to maybe put up with what the minority chose.
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October 7, 2017 8:14am
- lifesgood
  
  The only good thing about a coalition from hell would be seeing WO get his come uppance. He has worked so hard to get Winston in the driver’s seat. I hope WO enjoys the ride.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:20am
  - DifferentPerspective
    
    Business will be even better for WO with Labour in power, his blog lives off Red and Green libtardery.
    
    When they’re in opposition, he can only live on the scraps, when they’re passing dumbass policies all over the show he has never ending source material of their hypocrisy and stupidity. It was always win:win for WO – whatever the result.
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:27am
  - MrTips
    
    He has other things to worry about like an ever increasing string of defamation cases ….
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:30am
    - KevOB
      
      Its’ his mouth and its connections that should be his concern.
      
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      October 7, 2017 9:20am
- CHFR1
  
  I am not sure Jacinda will last 9 years ion the job, John Key and Helen Clark she most certainly is not. She is about to find out what having a large caucus is like and I do not thin she has the skills, or support to wrangle them. We are forgetting Grant Robertson, who believes it is his turn next to lead and his form in white anting (a skill learned at Helen’s knee) leaders.
  Add to that her biological clock is really ticking and she does want children, I do not think she will give this up for a short stint leading New Zealand, she is just not that ambitious.
  But whatever happens you are right re the NZ First supporters on this forum, they will blame us for their delusions.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:22am
  - VicParking
    
    If she becomes PM the blow torch will be turned on her by the MSM. We hate tall poppies in NZ. I think her Comrade years will come back to bite her.
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:28am
    - Komata
      
      VP:
      
      Re: ‘… The blow torch will be turned on her by the MSM’.
      
      Actually, no, since if you remember, it has been the MSM that has been boosting her beyond all reason. As she is their ‘heroine’ (and aligned to her / the party’s policies), they have absolutely no reason to change their narrative, not matter how bad she might actually be.
      
      The only time that things will alter will be if ‘orders’ are received that the currently ‘chosen’ one has fallen from grace. (Just saying).
      
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      October 7, 2017 10:03am
      - VicParking
        
        Wait till she is PM. All will change as the MSM will need an outlet for their vitriol.
        
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        October 7, 2017 12:15pm
    - marcw
      
      If Winston goes with National, then watch the MSM blowtorch turn on him. How dare he – Saint Jacinda is the one they have campaigned for over the last 2 months, and she deserves to be crowned Queen as their chosen one.
      
      The vitriol will be nuclear.
      
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      October 7, 2017 10:58am
      - sooty
        
        After all it’s her turn?
        
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        October 7, 2017 12:07pm
  - Paulus
    
    I would think that Taxinderella will forgo children for the greater good of New Zealand.
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:29am
    - Twinkletoes
      
      She probably has some eggs frozen to cover the situation.
      
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      October 7, 2017 10:58am
  - All_on_Red
    
    9 years?
    Heck, if she becomes PM then Question Time will become something she dreads.
    She won’t be able to handle the pressure- especially when the inevitable stuff ups start happening.
    
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    October 7, 2017 10:07am
    - sooty
      
      The OIA’s as well.
      
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      October 7, 2017 12:08pm
    - doggone7
      
      She can copy the Key/English model and simply lie and obfuscate in Question Time.
      
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      October 7, 2017 12:33pm
    - Flash
      
      Does the PM stand by all of her statements?
      will be replaced by
      Is the PM in the family way?
      Imagine that, day in and day out –
      
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      October 7, 2017 1:05pm
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Are you still whining about this Happy, I keep on telling you, this chaotic cluster fuck outcome is exactly the outcome I was voting for. I wanted National to question what the hell happened, I wanted another ridiculous MMP abortion to continue to build the understanding that MMP is a poor electoral system. I am loving the whining from all the two ticks blue KoolAid drinkers. In the long-term this bad experience will lead to a better place.
  
  As for your prediction, if you think that 9 years with Taxcinda as PM is at all likely I have this lovely bridge I can sell you.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:25am
  - Happychappy
    
    But as I say about you DP it would be nice to have your ability to look into the future but even know all’s like you have been proved wrong.
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:29am
    - DifferentPerspective
      
      Happy. Not sure where you get the ‘look into the future’ notion from, but I voted with high hopes and am pleased to have had those hopes realised.
      
      I’m guessing you are not interested in that bridge then? Are you sure? You could use it ‘get over’ your frustration with the 7.5% of your fellow NZers who didn’t vote as you wanted them to! Any reason why the 7.5% voting for Winnie First are the sole subject of your anger? Why not those voting Green or Labour – surely that much bigger proportion of the population who out and out voted against your wishes are more to blame? How about those silly billies who so obviously wasted their votes on TOP? Or are those 7.5% just a proxy for the real anger, which should be directed at the system that keeps on delivering us this mad scenario?
      
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      October 7, 2017 8:44am
- oldpark
  
  We already have the coalition from hell. The Wellington City Council. Infested with Lie-bour/ Green control freaks. Led by the self appointed grubby little dictator called Justin Lester. He is virtually out of control, in how decisions are made in that atmosphere of fear and loathing, at Council Meetings.Rumour has it, there is only one way. its “LESTERS WAY”.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:27am
  - VicParking
    
    Subsitute Auckland, Goff and “Goff’s way”. There are also a number of smaller councils in the same boat. Take Whanganui for example.
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:32am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Incompetent local govt is becoming an extremely expensive burden to NZ. Failing at infrastructure development and maintenance while they fiddle around wasting money on social justice bollocks and empire building.
    
    Time for a bit of law change to impose more fiscal discipline and control from central govt? Or perhaps to change voting back to rate-payers only.
    
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    October 7, 2017 12:32pm
  - Flash
    
    And he thinks that acknowledging the Queen’s Birthday is irrelevant. Will he be willing to cancel the long weekend then?
    
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    October 7, 2017 1:08pm
- BananaLlama
  
  If National had used their ears when it came to Immigration and Maori separatism many of us would have had no need to vote NZF you only have yourselves to blame.
  
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  October 7, 2017 10:26am
freemark

This judge should be sacked, or prosecuted, or worse. FFS
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11930260
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October 7, 2017 8:19am
- VicParking
  
  The problem with the Family Court is we don’t get to hear all the facts just the result. Dont be to hard on the these Judges, they have strict rules that they need to stick to. Anyway they don’t sack incompetent judges they just promote them out of the court room.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:39am
- Swifty
  
  This is rewarding bad behaviour. Shouldn’t be allowed.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:46am
  - Nookin
    
    Care of children cases have nothing to do with rewarding or punishing good or bad behaviour. Behaiviour is relevant only to the extent that it affects the child’s welfare. In this case the wife’s actions did not score brownie points but the question that the judge had to answer is which option is in the best interest of the child at that particular time. What happened two years previous is not necessarily relevant.
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:54am
  - calendar girl
    
    Or even (perhaps) rewarding criminal behaviour in the UK?
    
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    October 7, 2017 9:11am
- Nookin
  
  The decision is surprising on the face of it because The Hague convention usually requires the return of children to the country of normal residence. There are exceptions, though. In this case the court had the benefit of a psychological report that said that repatriation would have a significantly detriment effect on the child’s welfare. Have you read that report, Freemark? Can you explain where the judge got it so badly wrong that he must be dismissed?
  It sounds as though this is an interim measure only and that mummy will be heading home soon, courtesy of INZ.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:47am
  - freemark
    
    So, judge has contravened Hague Convention. Child not at risk from Father, who has offered accom to Mother just so he & she can co-parent. Father was granted custody as mother wouldn’t allow contact. Mother is illegally here and should be deported. Mother illegally removed (kidnapped?) child then denies father any knowledge of child’s whereabouts/safety etc. You are right that I don’t know the full story, however the above appear to be undisputed facts. It used to be possible to peruse FC decisions, seems not any more. Imagine if a local judge/poli said “fuck you” to the Paris Accord based on that it might be unsafe to our economy.
    
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    October 7, 2017 1:19pm
    - Nookin
      
      So, judge has contravened Hague Convention.
      
      Not necessarily. There are exceptions. Have a look at the New Zealand Family Court guidelines to which you will find a link on the following page.
      
      https://www.justice.govt.nz/about/lawyers-and-service-providers/service-providers/practice-notes-and-procedures/
      
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      October 7, 2017 1:38pm
DifferentPerspective

Seymour – the nowhere man

WOBH flags again the sad demise of the once great idea of Act, as the vapid virtue-signalling Seymour sits in opposition for three years, looking exactly like the trougher he is.

As if commented before, this is the chap who eschewed a ministerial role that would have raised the profile of Act somewhat, so that he could focus his efforts on rebuilding the party vote DOWN (from 0.7% in 2014 to 0.5% in 2017)!

If he had any integrity at all, he would step aside and let someone more representative of what Act stands for contest for Epsom in a by-election. Yes, they’d probably lose – but at least the Nats would get another MP and if Seymour really cared about the centre-right as he’s said so often, rather than himself that is a better outcome.
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October 7, 2017 8:20am
- softail 1450
  
  DP,,,,,he lost my respect when he desperately pushed forward his Maori ancestry a week before the election .
  never once heard him mention it before, just another bludger with his whole body in the trough…
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:44am
Paulus

I have designed by new T Shirts for sale.

“I did not vote Winston Peters for my President”
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October 7, 2017 8:23am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Save money on the production printing costs by leaving the bit about the president off, like Hillary’s book a year after coming second, irrelevant.
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:01am
rightoverlabour

Can anyone suggest a good shrink for WO and his Zit obsession? WO, if you read this blog, ( as I am banned from commenting on yours as you can’t cope with “FFS” in a post – that’s the crime I was banned for!), please desist from posting zit porn. I won’t be back to read your stuff until the zit stuff goes. For Fuck’s Sake.
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October 7, 2017 8:26am
- Flash
  
  I suggest you scroll past the zit post. I do. And apparently it is only there until Winston makes up his mind –
  
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  October 7, 2017 1:11pm
flipper

So, if one believes the now defunct Herald’s Trevett, Young and Edwards the final election counts are already known.
Their bias is obvious, yet they present as “neutral”.
Crap!
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October 7, 2017 8:31am
- Inandout
  
  No government department is ‘leak proof’.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:49am
- Viking2
  
  yea and apparently Young’s opinion post is breaking news. well at least according to their breaking news banner. FFS Idiots.
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:51am
Inandout

ISIS will have to do better than this in their claims that Paddock was ‘one of them’. Proof ISIS… proof.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2017/10/05/islamic-state-claims-vegas-shooter-solider-caliphate/
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October 7, 2017 8:48am
Victor Omega

If ever there was a case against SOEs it has to be NZPOST. What a joke. Endless lost mail, an “overnight” service that isn’t, terrible customer service. If it wasn’t for Kiwibank and our taxes propping it up it would (and should) have gone under years ago.
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October 7, 2017 9:03am
- Biscuit
  
  This’ll make you laugh, Victor.
  
  Towards the end of last century I went and bought a box of 500 envelopes from NZ Post that were ‘postage included’.
  
  I can’t remember the last time I used one.
  
  I pay all my bills ‘on-line’ nowadays and get those bills SENT to me on-line.
  
  There must easily be 300 envelopes still to use!
  
  I think they’ll outlast me, heh heh…
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:20am
  - Inandout
    
    I would ask the local charities if they wanted some envelopes.
    
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    October 7, 2017 10:27am
    - Biscuit
      
      Brilliant suggestion, Inandout.
      
      I didn’t think of THAT!
      
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      October 7, 2017 10:48am
- VicParking
  
  Have you watched the new mail delivery vehicles.
  They can only drive on the footpath so the poste has to get out and walk to the letter box/boxes then return to the vehicle. Makes it a farce if it is raining. In the summer with those helmets on it will be unbearable
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:53am
  - sooty
    
    I believe they have an exemption so they can drive on the footpath. So with postal deliveries only three days a week, how come you see them deliver courier packets on the other days by driving on the footpath. Council/plod should be on to this rort and close it down or open up to other freight companies.
    
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    October 7, 2017 12:18pm
flipper

It would not surprise me if, just for once, the dickheads at One and Three actually bothered to follow the Australian example and treat Saturday as just another day, to broadcast the final election figures.
But don’t count on it.
So… at 1.55pm…..
Go to this site to get the info, sans leftie spin…
Then DPF’s KB for good, balanced, analysis…….

http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/
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October 7, 2017 9:05am
- MCos
  
  Then DPF’s KB for good, balanced, right wing, analysis…….
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:12am
  - flipper
    
    Yep….
    But …. sans your right wing crap addition.
    It will be fair and accurate, and differentiate between fact and opinion.
    But you, clearly, would allow them to morph… and then describe you view as balanced. No???
    🙂
    
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    October 7, 2017 9:47am
  - VicParking
    
    Good on you MCos for calling the right wing good and balanced. One and three will have good old left wing bull shit.
    
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    October 7, 2017 9:56am
  - Viking2
    
    eh?
    
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    October 7, 2017 11:17am
Happychappy

There are people on here that say NZ would not have the problems we have if it wasn’t for John Key yet this Prime Minister will go down in as the most popular in modern history. So because a Labour Leader becomes popular and has attracted people from all walks to support her the genral felling is she will fail, I particularly do not like her but you have to agreeshe has done fine job to get Labour to where they are today even with people like Sweet cheeks feeding his tax policy to her. John Key had a base to build on after Helen Clark stole the Election from Don Brash and National with the interest free student loans where Jacinda had nothing but a trout mouth ex Union thug who had his Party at 23% with about eight weeks to the Election to change Labours fortune and she has. So for you people that think Jacinda will fall by the wayside like DP and keep on suggesting Bill English was dull out of his depth and was the 21% man and a failure, but how wrong they were. They are now doing the same to Jacinda even though against our so called better judgement she was a stand out for Labour at the Election.
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October 7, 2017 9:06am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Jacinda ….
  
  “And like bright metal on a sullen ground”
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:13am
  - flipper
    
    Like a horse eating thistles
    
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    October 7, 2017 9:49am
- stigie
  
  Yes, but John Key was a rich prick Happychappy, so hated and envious by the left that any good he or National did was a total disaster or lies by the left !~
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:30am
  - VicParking
    
    He was such a tall poppie from the begining the MSM could not reach high enough to cut him down.
    Once his caucus started to rot his roots he up stake and moved on.
    
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    October 7, 2017 9:58am
DifferentPerspective

Selfish Polar Bears – Population grows

Anyone noticed that the Polar Bear – the poster-child for the Chicken Little Climate Alarmists fraudsters isn’t thrust in our faces any more as a victim of global warming?

Those goddamned polar bears are getting fat and the population has jumped by about 20% since we were told they’d all be anorexic and dead by the middle of the century.

If only the polar bears could understand that the ~~cult hysteria~~ science is settled about Chicken Little Climate Alarmism then they could get with the program and die the fuck off.

But no! Those pesky things like facts keep on getting in the way of the climate fraudsters. Pants on fire!

Cue Griff (rant epithetic frustration)
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October 7, 2017 9:10am
- Gruffydd
  
  Yip
  
  Its all a big scam
  The worlds scientists don’t know nothing .
  Quantum mechanics and the theory of black body radiation are fake news.
  Living in a fantersy world is your right.
  Meantime .
  NZ first has a policy the same as the Greens .
  Your leader the right dis honorable Whiny complains they stole it off him.
  Greens ‘Greenwash’ Climate Change Policy By Stealing NZ First’s
  
  The Green Party has been all over the place on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) and has resorted to copying aspects of New Zealand First’s Climate Change policy.
  
  http://www.nzfirst.org.nz/tags/climate_change
  Does that makes you a libtard greeny voting for a marxist green party policy on the big hoax by commies and the UN to steal your money?
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:33am
  - mikenmild
    
    Come on Griff, you don’t expect a NZ First voter to actually know what the party’s policies are do you?
    They just vote Winston for the feelz. Even Winston doesn’t bother to learn his own party policies.
    
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    October 7, 2017 9:55am
    - VicParking
      
      NZ first voters should know what Winston’s policies are, they are only “One Liners”
      
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      October 7, 2017 10:01am
    - Gruffydd
      
      I was merely attempting to nudge his DifferentPerspective a few dimensions closer to reality.
      NZF’s policy is close down the ETS for a big pile of tax payers moola the polys can take tuns at dishing out. The policy is shared with the Greens.
      Sounds legit to me.
      Peters and the Green with 1.4 billion or so of our cash to give away on “meaning full” projects.
      What could possibly go wrong?
      
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      October 7, 2017 10:13am
Digmen1

Getting back to NZ in 20 years time.

I’d like to see at least 10 million here.

But good people, not low quality people from southern asia with no qualifications and huge extended families, and “students” trying to get in through the back door, and no more from the pacific that really contribute nothing to our progress, other than winning some rugby games. And absolutely NO muslims at all. (even young hot looking Green prospects). And make sure that Chinese immigrants have a job to go to – NOT Trademe selling and P importing.

Good people that have trades or qualification in engineering or science.

And of course it would be great if they could spread out and fill up our rural areas (ha ha!)

I’d also like them to take a test on our basic laws and business and labour laws. And warn them that we do/WILL not tolerate any corruption or they will be deported.
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October 7, 2017 9:15am
- VicParking
  
  I’ll be dead so the rest of you can walk around in shit up to your knees as far as I am concerned. So long as you keep paying my super until I kark it I will be happy. As for the living wage, make it $30 hour for all I care, so long as Super is 60% of the average.
  
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  October 7, 2017 10:04am
  - Viking2
    
    I will be an old bastard by then but I will hang around here to haunt these pricks. As you say keep my super levels up guys. Work harder.
    😆 ;lol;
    
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    October 7, 2017 11:21am
- publicwatchdog
  
  I have Advanced Trade in Sheetmetal Engineering and was a Welding Tutor for 9 years at Manukau Institute of Technology.
  
  Does that now make me a ‘good person’?
  
  😉
  
  Penny Bright
  
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  October 7, 2017 7:30pm
  - renderer
    
    Good people pay their way in life.
    
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    October 7, 2017 7:37pm
Chuck Bird

This is outrageous. There is no way the father would get the same treatment if he absconded with his daughter. I wonder if this judge thinks it okay for other countries to ignore NZ courts and allow criminal action to be rewarded. The only way to stop this is to jail the criminal parent. Yes, that will harm the child but so does many other criminal acts by a parent.

Judge rules girl in ‘tug-of-love’ battle can stay with mother

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11930260
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October 7, 2017 9:18am
- cha
  
  that will harm the child but
  
  Yeah, because your faux concern about families has always been about punishing them womanz and never ever about the well being of children.
  
  DiaD, soon, you vile old fuck.
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:29am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Are you a woman?
    
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    October 7, 2017 9:32am
- Nookin
  
  There is no way the father would get the same treatment if he absconded with his daughter.
  
  He would and I have been involved in a case where he did –not only in the family court but also in the High Court on appeal –albeit some time ago.
  The law is still the same though. The focus is not on “treatment” of parents. It is what is in the best interests of the child at the time of hearing.
  
  The mother has not committed a crime in NZ. She may have in her home country where ever that may be. The Family Court has no power to extradite. INZ is dealing with residency issues.
  The judge has to deal with the present day facts and not on something historical that may have lost its significance in the context of a child’s welfare today. That’s the law. If you do not like it, change it.
  
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  October 7, 2017 10:10am
  - dad4justice
    
    Change the law yeah right Nookin I spoke to numerous lawmakers as to why there is no need for the family court to check the validity of accusations make under domestic violence proceedings. I believe that law is criminal and totally gender bias, but I have no doubts you on the gravy train will have other ideas!
    
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    October 7, 2017 11:49am
    - stigie
      
      Nookin might not see your comment for another 52 days Dad..?
      
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      October 7, 2017 12:31pm
      - dad4justice
        
        Why’s that?
        
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        October 7, 2017 12:43pm
    - Nookin
      
      Good afternoon Dad.
      You never seem to fail me. Every post you make on the subject illustrates the difficulty that Family Court judges have when trying to sort out the lives of people who for one reason or another, sometimes beyond their control, have managed to make a complete mess of them themselves.
      Constantly resorting to ad hominem comments because you are at a loss to engage rationally on a subject is hardly likely to score you brownie points here or anywhere else.
      
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      October 7, 2017 12:54pm
      - dad4justice
        
        Good afternoon Nookin can you name me any other court jurisdiction that allows an innocent man to be forced into proceedings through false allegations?
        
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        October 7, 2017 1:13pm
      - Nookin
        
        I have only practised law in New Zealand, Dad. Before I start googling other jurisdictions, are you saying:
        there is no other jurisdiction worldwide in which women (or anyone in fact) make false allegations or
        the Registrar of every other court internationally conducts a “smell test” at the time of filing and successfully rejects every single case where there may be a false allegation or
        It is only in New Zealand that the protestation of innocence by an accused male is determinative of the falsity of the allegation?
        
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        October 7, 2017 1:44pm
      - dad4justice
        
        No what I am saying Nookin is that there is a consequence for false allegations in criminal jurisdiction either perjury or compensation, however there is no consequences for a mother lying in the family court, which can destroy an innocent father . That’s hardy fair is it?
        
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        October 7, 2017 1:54pm
      - Nookin
        
        Are you saying that the case to which I link below and others like it are the figments of the Court’s and MSM’s imagination or is it simply a matter of ignoring minor inconveniences such as fact when bursting to print with your bigoted diatribe?
        
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/4190591/Mother-given-jail-term-over-DNA-deception
        
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        October 7, 2017 3:07pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Nookin, I accept that saying no way was embellishing things a bit but it is clear that all courts have a bias in favour of women. In the Family Court this applies to custody. In the Criminal Court it applies to sentence. Have you read Crime in NZ by Greg Newbold? Parliament is the highest court in the land yet they will not get rid of laws that treat women more leniently. For example infanticide and assault on a woman.
    
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    October 7, 2017 12:51pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Nookin, do you accept that extreme parental alienation is child abuse?
    
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    October 7, 2017 2:27pm
    - Nookin
      
      What do you mean by extreme parental alienation, Chuck? The fact that parents may be alienated is not child abuse. Exposing children to the conflict arising out of the alienation is a form of child abuse. Using kids as bargaining tools to solve conflict can also be a form of abuse. So is deliberately denying contact with another parent without compelling justification.
      
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      October 7, 2017 3:57pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  So you are familiar with every word of evidence the judge heard then Chuck? Or is this just another opportunity to lash out at the Family Court?
  
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  October 7, 2017 10:19am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    KS, so you think all judges are infallible? I did not hear any of the bail hearing of the teen that murdered Christie Marceau but think the judge was wrong. Do you think he was right? The agreement that no one has a right to criticize old tired and frankly stupid.
    
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    October 7, 2017 12:45pm
- Sir Leslie Bottocks
  
  there better be some evidence not hinted at in the article, because on face value the decision looks to be a terrible one. The use of the word “cataclysmic” by said judge seems to be hyperbole in the extreme, although it might turn out to be an accurate description of the affect on her in 5-10 years time when she is old enough to fully understand what has been done to her, and her father.
  
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  October 7, 2017 10:37am
  - Nookin
    
    Unfortunately, the report doesn’t give the girl’s age but there is enough there to draw inferences. Firstly, it is evident that she is of an age where the court must take serious notice of her wishes. Second, she has firmly expressed the view that she wishes to stay. The court has commissioned the report of an expert to advise the court on the psychological implications of the options. It is more than likely that the term “cataclysmic” was used in the expert’s report. Judges do not usually pluck terms such as that out of thin air unless there is evidence to support it.
    
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    October 7, 2017 6:45pm
Digmen1

I am praying that the Metieria effect had a negative effect on the Greens and that they go below the 5%.

Remember that they did go down a lot and then come back up a bit.
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October 7, 2017 9:20am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  It’s mathematically possible that the Greens could go to under 5% after the special votes but extremely unlikely as they would have to get less than 1% of the specials.
  Won’t happen, unfortunately.
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:25am
  - Digmen1
    
    I have not studied the maths, (too busy) but its the overall vote that counts not the specials.
    
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    October 7, 2017 9:32am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      True Digmen1, but the Greens have 5.9% based on the 85% of the votes counted so far. They would have to get a negligible percentage of the 15% specials to drop their overall vote below 5%.
      
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      October 7, 2017 9:51am
      - VicParking
        
        Well done Captain, its a pitty Shaw can’t calculate as well ( his 1.3% stuffup)
        
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        October 7, 2017 10:09am
      - KevOB
        
        Here’s hoping. Magenta rulz.
        
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        October 7, 2017 11:58am
- Biscuit
  
  Sheesh, Digmen1, the day was going superbly – great breakfast, World Cup football on the box … and then you go and bandy the ‘M’ word about in here.
  
  Shame on you!
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:26am
  - VicParking
    
    The Argy draw yesterday could mean Lionel Messi could be coming down to NZ.
    
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    October 7, 2017 10:11am
Odakyu-sen

When do we learn the outcome of the counting of the special votes?
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October 7, 2017 9:36am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  This afternoon, apparently.
  But Barely Sober has already counted them in his leftist dreams.
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:45am
- flipper
  
  2pm…
  See my post on the net site to get the data first hand
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:51am
- softail 1450
  
  OS early this afternoon .
  
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  October 7, 2017 9:54am
- KevOB
  
  I understand that they will be publicly released at 2pm today on this site:
  
  http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/
  
  A formal notice in the NZ Gazette is required and that is probably contemporaneous.
  
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  October 7, 2017 12:06pm
- MrTips
  
  Somebody called Helen Ryan on the NBR firmly reckons the projections are wrong and the left is in for a surprise: https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/final-vote-count-2pm-today-projection-says-national-could-lose-two-seats-ck-208537
  
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  October 7, 2017 1:00pm
Digmen1

How to fix the homeless crisis

Make them build their own homes like here

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-41530104/rohingya-crisis-drone-shows-huge-refugee-camps

If they can do that in 4 weeks, with an income of maybe $1 a day, imagine what our homeless could do with an income of $50 a day!
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October 7, 2017 9:39am
tom hunter

I don’t usually follow Gubernatorial races in the US unless there are some big issues hanging to them, but I did have to laugh at an exchange at a recent debate that sounded oh so like New Zealand:

Northam: This plan, ladies and gentlemen, that you just heard, is a tax cut for the rich at the expense of the working class,
…
Gillespie: Tax cut for the rich? The top rate in Virginia – 5.75 percent – kicks in at an income level of $17,000 a year. I didn’t say $70,000; I said $17,000. And my opponent thinks you’re rich and that’s just flat wrong.

Reminds me of Helen in 1999, with a top rate of 39% levied on rich pricks earning $NZ 60,000 per year. It was the same as the top US income tax rate she said – and nobody ever asked what US income level it kicked in at.
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October 7, 2017 10:23am
- Kimbo
  
  Meh. Catalonia? Gubernatorial races?! Tax rates?! Final NZ election outcomes??!
  
  Come on, tom, you and I and the discerning KB audience know there is only result that counts today:
  
  https://www.mlb.com/gameday/cubs-vs-nationals/2017/10/06/526492#game_tab=preview,game_state=preview,game=526492
  
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  October 7, 2017 10:49am
  - tom hunter
    
    HA! Have not forgotten but am in a location where I will just have to miss it – aside from relatively primitive MLB apps that do pitch-by-pitch.
    
    Interesting that the Cubs have started off with Hendricks, not Lester, but he has to be in the rotation sooner or later in a five-game series so…
    
    Hendricks has had a patchy season, with injuries and has not looked like the bewitching hurler of 2016. I think it’s going to depend on the fielders for defence and the batters – and Strasburg has looked very good (15-4) all year, although he’s had injuries as well.
    
    Two sides that are very good all-round. Should be a good game.
    
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    October 7, 2017 11:09am
  - tom hunter
    
    BTW, Kimbo – I found something baseball related the other day that might amuse you.
    
    Apparently the NYT set up an entire page to be run ~~when~~ if the Cubs lost the 2016 World Series. The “painting” is of course based on Norman Rockwell’s famous painting of dejected Cubs players, The Dugout. The NYT merely substituted modern faces – including in the abusive crowd behind, though I recognise only Tom Hanks.
    
    Quite clever really. Although my hackles are rising at the usual “New York” assumption about the City of Big Shoulders!
    
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    October 7, 2017 11:55am
    - Kimbo
      
      Is standard practice in the media to have obituaries already written, which are then rolled out when the famous person expires…
      
      but yes. Very good. Mind you, this is what it looks like in real life:
      
      http://www.buckbokai.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Branca-after-the-shot.jpg
      
      …and the story behind it:
      
      https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/nov/23/ralph-branca-dies-shot-heard-around-the-world-baseball
      
      …and in the same vein I always thought this was the greatest rugby picture (of the last moment in maybe the greatest test match of all time) that told a thousand words, right down to the scoreboard attendant waiting to see the result of the kick before placing the final digit into place!:
      
      http://keithquinnrugby.com/favourite-photos/this-picture-says-an-awful-lot-about-the-beautiful-but-sometimes-sad-game-of-rugby/
      
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      October 7, 2017 12:12pm
      - tom hunter
        
        Ah yes, the famous photo of van der Schyff. I’ve always wondered why that particular kick caused that reaction. There are plenty of other photos of rugby goal kickers missing a vital shot – including Springboks – and I’ve never seen a reaction in any of them quite that despairing. Head slumped a little perhaps – but here it’s van der Schyff’s entire body that almost literally gives the emotion “weight”.
        
        As for Branca? Well he’d given up a homer to Thomson earlier in the series, so I blame the Dodger manager!
        
        Speaking of which, I wonder what Dusty Baker must be thinking right now – and how the Cubs crowd will receive him?
        
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        October 7, 2017 12:23pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Um, like Steve Bartman, they will be in a forgiving mood? As you posted last year, Red Sox fans forgave Bill Buckner…or at least Bill Buckner was gracious enough to forgive them! 😉
        
        And read that story on Branca, Bobby Thompson and the 1951 Giants – they were stealing the calls from visiting opposition teams that year at the Polo Grounds. No wonder years later Barry Bonds wound up in the same franchise! 😉
        
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        October 7, 2017 12:31pm
      - Kimbo
        
        …and the Giants pitching options that day were limited when Don Newcombe had to be relieved in the bottom of the ninth:
        
        Newcombe had pitched a complete game on September 29, four days earlier, in Philadelphia, followed by 5⅔ innings in relief the following day during the last game of the regular season. According to some accounts, after eight innings on only two days’ rest he attempted to take himself out of the game, but Robinson demanded that he continue: “You go out there and pitch until your arm falls off!” Newcombe himself insisted that he never asked to be relieved—a version corroborated by Snider and Pafko.
        
        Giants shortstop Alvin Dark singled off Newcombe to start the bottom-ninth rally. At that point, the Dodgers made a crucial defensive mistake: With no outs, a runner on first, and a 3-run lead, the normal strategy would be to position the infield for a possible double play; but first baseman Gil Hodges played behind Dark—apparently guarding against a highly unlikely steal attempt—leaving a large gap on the right side of the infield.[9] Don Mueller, batting left-handed, hit a single through that gap, advancing Dark from first to third. Instead of a rally-killing double play, the Dodgers found themselves facing the potential tying run at the plate with two runners on base, nobody out, and Irvin—with 121 regular-season RBIs—at bat; but Newcombe got Irvin to chase an outside pitch and foul out to Hodges.[9] (Sportswriter Bud Greenspan and others have argued that, had the Dodger infield played Mueller at double-play depth, Irvin’s pop-up would in all likelihood have been the season-ending third out.[19])
        
        Lockman followed with a double down the left field line, driving in Dark and advancing Mueller to third. Mueller slid awkwardly into the base, injuring his ankle, and was replaced by pinch runner Clint Hartung.[9] With Thomson coming up, Dodgers manager Chuck Dressen finally pulled the exhausted Newcombe. In the bullpen, where Branca and Carl Erskine were warming up, coach Clyde Sukeforth noticed that Erskine—who had been troubled by arm problems all season—was bouncing his curve balls short of the plate, and advised Dressen to use Branca in relief. That decision has been continually second-guessed by fans, sportswriters, and baseball historians: Branca had lost six of his last seven decisions, and gave up a game-winning home run to Thomson in the first playoff game. Dressen’s options, however, were severely limited: the only other available pitchers with crucial-situation experience were Clyde King, who was sidelined with biceps tendonitis; Preacher Roe, who was left-handed; and Labine, who had pitched a complete game the day before. This was the second questionable decision that inning by Dressen.[20]
        
        Thomson was now at bat, with first base open and Willie Mays (soon to be named the NL Rookie of the Year) on deck. Mays had gone 0-for-3 with two strikeouts against Branca in the first playoff game, but Dressen was unwilling to put the winning run on base, and worried that a veteran pinch hitter might be brought in to bat for Mays if he did so.[9] In the third controversial decision, he elected to pitch to Thomson rather than walk him intentionally.[21] Thomson later recalled that as he left the on-deck circle, Giants manager Leo Durocher turned to him and said, “If you ever hit one, hit it now.”[22]
        
        Branca’s first pitch was a called strike on the inside corner. His second was a fastball high and inside, intended as a setup for his next, a breaking ball down and away; but Thomson pulled the fastball down the left field line. The ball disappeared into the lower-deck stands near the left field foul line for a game-ending, three-run home run. Thomson ran the bases, then disappeared into a mob of jubilant teammates gathered at home plate. The stunned Dodger players began the long walk toward the visitors’ clubhouse under the center field bleachers; Robinson turned to watch Thomson, making certain that he touched every base, before following his teammates off the field.[9]
        
        Later, after the celebrations had calmed down, a delegation of Dodgers—Reese, Snider, Roe, and Robinson—visited the Giants’ locker room to offer their congratulations. “I just want you to know that we didn’t lose the pennant,” Robinson told them. “You guys won it.”[9]
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_Heard_%27Round_the_World_(baseball)
        
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        October 7, 2017 12:46pm
      - Kimbo
        
        …and don’t you just love it that, despite the intense disappointment of the moment, a consummate professional like Jackie Robinson made sure that Thomson touched every base? It was after all, the Giants playing at the Polo Grounds!
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle%27s_Boner
        
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        October 7, 2017 12:50pm
RF

What’s with the bloody teeth.

Whenever I see Ardern and Peters on TV their teeth are very very prominent – Arderns huge and sparkling and Peters who appears to be always laughing has yellow tobacco stained teeth.

Clark also had a row of teeth that looked like a car had driven through a picket fence.

Disclaimer… I do not have a teeth fetish
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October 7, 2017 10:25am
- Gabby
  
  You should occasionally clean the teeth when it’s your turn to use them rf rf.
  
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  October 7, 2017 5:28pm
Inandout

This dog has a distinct advantage. I once worked with a guy who often displayed his extraordinarily long tongue in the cafeteria for all to see. He apparently had a lively love life which of course we put down to his Latino heritage…..nothing else.

http://www.bbc.com/news/video_and_audio/must_see/41499014/the-dog-with-the-world-s-longest-tongue
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October 7, 2017 10:36am
Fletch

So the Food Standards Authority in the UK has issued warnings about those reusable shopping bags, saying that people have to be careful when transporting meat and fish etc, because no one ever washes them. In fact, they say you should have separate bags for meat, washing powder, etc.

Reusable “bags for life” can spread deadly food poisoning bacteria if they are used to carry raw foods such as fish and meat, consumers have been warned by the government’s food safety watchdog.

In revised guidance on its website, the Food Standards Agency (FSA) is recommending that shoppers use separate bags to carry raw foods, ready-to eat foods and non-food items such as household cleaners and washing powder.

The new advice aims to reduce the risk of “cross-contamination” of bacteria, encouraging consumers to follow good hygiene practices while out shopping in supermarkets and other food shops as well as in the home.

It has warned that deadly bugs such as E coli and campylobacter, which can cause stomach bugs, can be transferred from the outside of packaging when plastic bags are reused – even when there is no obvious trace of leakage. It suggests that reusable bags could be colour coded or labelled to avoid any mix-up.

If there has been visible spillage, soiling or damage, plastic bags for life should be replaced, while cotton ones could be machine-washed to keep them hygienic.

At the end of August the FSA’s website was updated – with little publicity – to tell consumers: “Ideally, you should have enough bags to carry raw foods, ready-to-eat foods and non-food items such as washing powder separately. Keep enough bags for life for raw foods only and don’t use the same bags again for ready-to-eat foods or for carrying other household items.”

It says that raw foods (meat, fish and shellfish, loose vegetables with soil on, and eggs) can contain germs or have germs on their surface that cause food poisoning. Even wrapped raw foods such as pre-packed fresh meat or fish may have traces of harmful bugs on the outside of the packaging.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/02/bags-for-life-carry-food-poisoning-risk-if-used-for-raw-meat-or-fish

Hmm, now if only there were some cheap, one-use bags that could keep us safe. Oh, wait….
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October 7, 2017 10:55am
- Viking2
  
  ha ha ha.
  And what is the advice when storing foods in a fridge. Oh that’s right. Raw at the bottom, cooked next up .
  Why well food can be contaminated by bacteria dripping from uncooked to cooked.
  
  Guess we forgot about that stuff.
  
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  October 7, 2017 1:57pm
Fletch

U.S Attorney General Jeff Sessions has implemented Trump’s executive order on 1st Amendment religious protections. The left don’t like it, of course.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions acted Friday upon Section 4’s mandate, issuing guidance that declares 20 separate protections under federal law. They include:

1. The freedom of religion is a fundamental right of paramount importance, expressly protected by federal law.

2. The free exercise of religion includes the right to act or abstain from action in accordance with one’s religious beliefs.

3. The freedom of religion extends to persons and

4. Americans do not give up their freedom of religion by participating in the marketplace, partaking of the public square, or interacting with the government.

5. Government may not restrict acts or abstentions because of the beliefs they display.

6. Government may not target religious individuals or entities for special disabilities based on their religion.

7. Government may not target religious individuals or entities through discriminatory enforcement of neutral, generally applicable laws.

8. Government may not officially favor or disfavor particular religious groups.

9. Government may not interfere with the autonomy of a religious organization.

The attorney general’s memorandum includes protections under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), including (#14) how demanding its legal standard is in protecting religious liberty, (#12) that it does not allow the federal government “to second-guess the reasonableness of a religious belief,” and (#13) RFRA is violated when the government “substantially pressures” a religious person or group “to modify such observance or practice.”

Sessions also clarifies religious protections under Title VII in federal law governing employers, regarding (#16) not discriminating against employees on the basis of religion, including (#17) religious observance and practice. Additionally, (#19) religious employers have the right to hire only individuals who agree with that religious faith, and (#20) the federal government may not require an organization to set aside any of its religious-liberty rights as a condition for getting any grant or benefit.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/10/06/trump-doj-hhs-issue-major-religious-liberty-and-pro-life-protections/

The memo itself –

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1001891/download?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery
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October 7, 2017 11:04am
tom hunter

Seems it’s not just Catalonia….Gov. Jerry Brown signs bill, makes California a sanctuary state.

Jeez – what is it with Democrat led states that think they can just pick and choose what Federal laws to enforce. I haven’t seen them this angry since they had their slaves taken away – and when you think about the low wages the illegal immigrants are paid, that’s pretty much what this is.

What’s next, seceeding from the Union just because it’s led by a Republican President?

Oh wait.
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October 7, 2017 11:21am
Tauhei Notts

Tamanivalu, Perofeta, Sowakula, Riccitelli and Mataele; These are the names that I will think of when I stand alongside the monument to the brave people of Parihaka and gaze in a thoughtful manner upon the majesty of Mount Egmont, and wonder how much the descendants of that historic protest have contributed to their province.
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October 7, 2017 11:42am
- Jack5
  
  In Taranaki, is there any sort of monument, even a street name, to remember von Tempsky?
  
  I see the Wikipedia entry for him suggests it was hunger for the Victoria Cross that led to his death at Patea.
  
  (I think it means the rarer New Zealand Cross.)
  
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  October 7, 2017 3:11pm
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Von Tempsky met his comeuppance at Te Ngutu O Te Manu, which is about forty kilometres from Patea. That is closer to Kaponga than Patea.
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:41pm
  - wahior
    
    There is von Tempsky Street in Normanby.
    
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    October 7, 2017 6:28pm
Manolo

A blanket of silence comes down when the offender is a member of New York’s liberal elite:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/06/opinion/harvey-weinstein-democrats.html

There has been no comment from Mr. Obama or Mrs. Clinton, who, as a candidate, condemned Donald Trump for boasting of sexual assault on the infamous “Access Hollywood” tape. These Democratic leaders, role models for many young women and men, should make clear that Mr. Weinstein is also deserving of condemnation. If politicians as powerful as these take the money and stay mum, who will speak for young women like Mr. Weinstein’s accusers?
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October 7, 2017 12:38pm
tom hunter

As we sit here contemplating What Winston Will Do, I’m attempting to persaude my Yankee wife of the charms of the Old South…:

Grand Colonial, built in 1908 in Dillon, South Carolina. Five bedrooms, five baths, two parlors, formal dining and great rooms, grand staircase, chef’s kitchen; 7,510 square feet. Nine fireplaces, 24-foot-high entrance foyer, original woodworking and architectural details. Exterior pillars, brick walkway and patio, sitting porch, extensive landscaping, in-ground pool, three detached garages. Priced at $475,000

Yes folks, you read that right, – $NZ 670,000, for that! Look at the pictures from inside. And South Carolina is not a backward state. Certainly ahead of frigging Illinois.

Sadly I suspect my girl will never be convinced about the charms of the South!
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October 7, 2017 12:57pm
- Kimbo
  
  Maybe you could assure her that, unlike California, South Carolina has learned from the folly of attempting secession. 😉
  
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  October 7, 2017 1:07pm
PhilP

Lees then 1 hour to go now until the Electoral Commission announce the final election result. Hold all tickets! and hope I won’t be crying into my cornflakes tomorrow morning lol.
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October 7, 2017 1:09pm
tom hunter

With the NFL being kicked in the teeth ratings-wise, I wonder if there might be an uptick in the baseball ratings for the post-season?

Time for America’s Game to make a comeback perhaps?
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October 7, 2017 1:29pm
- Gabby
  
  NFL could stop playing the anthem. That’d larn ’em.
  
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  October 7, 2017 5:16pm
tom hunter

And on yet another different topic (hey – it’s GD), I very much appreciated the following article: Stop pretending to like IPAs.

It’s what I’ve been saying to mates for the last few years who’ve been pushing “quality” micro-brewed IPA’s on me and insisting how fantastic they are. Well, maybe – but they’re too fucking strong IMHO.

It wasn’t always this way. The IPAs that came out 15-plus years ago, like Racer 5 and Lagunitas, were more balanced and inviting. Sure, they were hoppier and more bitter than other beers, but they weren’t assholes about it. And beer lists weren’t catered just toward them.

Sometime in the past decade, brewers decided beer wasn’t hoppy enough. They began one-upping each other, trying to see who could make a beer so hoppy that the drinker’s face would pucker up like an angry anus. They wanted to see whose beer could make it feel like your tonsils had been stomped out by a street gang

Heh!
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October 7, 2017 1:36pm
- cha
  
  Well, maybe – but they’re too fucking strong IMHO.
  
  That, and the swarfega off-flavour.
  
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  October 7, 2017 1:44pm
- tom hunter
  
  Ewwwwww – but Ha!
  
  I thought that was just not sold any more! Beats most modern cleaners for getting oil and grease off your hands. And it’s at Mitre10? How have I been missing it?
  
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  October 7, 2017 1:54pm
- cmm
  
  IPAs are supposed to be strong. Both alcohol and hops are preservatives. IPAs were brewed with more alcohol and hops to survive the trip out to India.
  
  IPA was traditionally made as a compromise beer – not what a real beer should taste like, but good enough for the troops.
  
  Think of something like long-life milk vs real milk or bully beef vs real meat.
  
  So anyone getting snobby about IPA is really being a poser – and I agree with you far too many of them recently!
  
  So what’s a good drinking beer? Well it depends on what you want.
  
  Summer is probably time for something light, crisp and refreshing. A NZ-style Pilsner maybe.
  
  Winter is probably time for something a bit more “chewy” – a porter or such.
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:02pm
- tom hunter
  
  More “heh” – some comments on the article:
  
  Angry Anus? Quick! Trademark that! It’s a perfect name for an artisanal hipster microbrew!
  …
  So, the next step is a thick hop slurry cut with EverClear?
  …
  Drink enough IPA and you’ll be drunk enough to get off on your own swelling breasts. For the loner hipster, it doesn’t get any better than that.
  
  And then there’s this: What’s the matter Lagerboy…
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:04pm
- realityczech
  
  I agree Tom. Craft beers brewers have lost the plot. There is way too much going on with them. Beer should not have hints of apple, cinnamon, chocolate and sardines.
  
  They also knock you around way too much and are overpriced. None of them make a good clean crisp drink that tastes like beer.
  
  I have weaned myself off them and gone back to the big brewers.
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:12pm
  - cmm
    
    Have a go at home brewing.
    
    It’s pretty easy and the kits are way better than they were even 10 years ago.
    
    Good, honest meat-and-two-veg beer for a buck or two for 750ml. Even the last batch of supermarket stuff I made (less than $20 for 23 litres) was drinkable.
    
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    October 7, 2017 2:22pm
rightoverlabour

Fuck.
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October 7, 2017 2:01pm
- realityczech
  
  LOL 🙂
  
  The democratic expression of the people.
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:07pm
  - Digmen1
    
    The will of the MSM and the evil Electoral Communists (commisariat)
    
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    October 7, 2017 2:09pm
  - noskire
    
    And that democratic expression is still that the majority of New Zealanders want a centre-right Government.
    
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    October 7, 2017 2:10pm
  - cmm
    
    Correct, democracy should speak.
    
    Labour are still only on 46 – ten less than National.
    
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    October 7, 2017 2:11pm
noskire

Fuck.
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October 7, 2017 2:02pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Probably needs to be said more than twice
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:41pm
  - noskire
    
    Fuck it.
    
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    October 7, 2017 2:48pm
cha

Legal costs are mounting so it’s off Dallas to fund raise for the 2020 campaign and as always, there’s a tweet for every occasion.

I say we cannot continue to let Obama fly around on Air Force 1, at a cost of millions of dollars a day, for the purpose of politics & play!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 25, 2014

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/10/05/president-trump-fundraise-dallas-late-october/
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October 7, 2017 2:03pm
Rodney Randall

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/04/28/how-was-saudi-arabia-voted-un-womens-panel

Golriz has all the hallmarks of an open borders leftist. (Human rights lawyer, worked for UN) F$%king joke

Human Rights lawyers are all about helping their co-ethnics come into Western countries unopposed. It’s never about the people who made the country and how they are affected by the invaders.

What is happening in Germany is being protected and pushed by human rights groups. They have a right, it seems, to come into a country to rape and blow them up.

Her position will almost certainly be to open the floodgates to everyone to come into NZ as well.

Self styled Linda Sarsour aka “nasty woman”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFj8o2DGKQ
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October 7, 2017 2:04pm
- cmm
  
  So Golriz + Winston sound like a match made in heaven then.
  
  I can’t see a Labour + Green + Winston First clusterfuck lasting more than a month.
  
  Winnie is an old curmudgeon. How long can he bite his tongue around a bunch of inexperienced twenty/thirty something year old women before he says something like “Listen girlies, time so stop playing dollies.”?
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:17pm
  - Rodney Randall
    
    haha.
    
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    October 7, 2017 2:19pm
Digmen1

Oh no
Its all up to Winston now.

We’re doomed
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October 7, 2017 2:07pm
tom hunter

I see a lot of bad language! Does this mean things are not well in National land?
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October 7, 2017 2:07pm
- Nukuleka
  
  Of course in lala Green- Labourland no-one ever utters a naughty word, do they Tom? Pure and uncorrupted. Been reading The Standard and The Daily Blog have you since the election that National won resoundingly?
  
  And has still won resoundingly for a 4th term.
  
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  October 7, 2017 3:41pm
  - Kimbo
    
    You know that “resoundingly” (x2!) is an emphatic adverb, don’t you? 😉
    
    Kimbo’s law: “in blogworld the validity of an argument in in inverse proportion to the overuse of emphatic adverbs”.
    
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    October 7, 2017 3:50pm
  - tom hunter
    
    Shhhhhhh, Kimbo. I always enjoy finding out who does not bother reading most of my comments – and the amazing assumptions thus made.
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:14pm
  - Kimbo
    
    Fair point, tom. If you had the accurate byline, “to the right of Atilla the Hun on a bad day” you may not catch as many.
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:41pm
Rachael Membery

So National have lost two seats and red and green picked one p each.
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October 7, 2017 2:08pm
cmm

So Labour-and-Green (is that one party?) pick up two and National lose 2.

So National is on 56, and Labour-and_green now on 54.

And, according to Horrid, that changes EVERYTHING??
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October 7, 2017 2:09pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  The Horrid are morons. Nothing has really changed. Winston will go and have a circle jerk and pick a party. And half the country will be happy and the other half will say ” Fuck”.
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:11pm
  - KevOB
    
    Winston has shown he is not tolerant of brainless young political wannabes. He is old school tinged with a bit of quirky aging.
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:47pm
MrTips

LOL. 6.3% of NZers think benefit fraud and suppressing principled thinkers is OK. It’s not Winston who’s the problem; it’s the mungbean eating, latte sipping Ponsonby set who vote for these idiots that will destroy NZ.

Having said that, this doesn’t really change anything. Nats are still far and away the largest block. Bill has redeemed himself. Winston deserves the chance to as well.
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October 7, 2017 2:14pm
niggly

Changes nothing, National still gained the most votes by Kiwi’s and still polled ahead of Labour by 7.5%.

National Party – 1,152,075 party votes/44.4% of votes/41 electorate seats.

Labour Party – 956,184 party votes/36.9% of votes/29 electorate seats.

National are still miles ahead by any measure.

Of course the MSM, Labour and the Greens won’t see it like that!
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October 7, 2017 2:14pm
tom hunter

Was this not what was expected? I mean I certainly thought the Specials would drag National down by two seats, and give the Greens at least one. Labour gaining one might be a little surprising. It’s usually the Greens who do well from the Ignorant Foreign Kiwi Wanker vote: the I care and I don’t have to pay crowd.

So nothing really new then. Winston – as on election night.
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October 7, 2017 2:16pm
Evadne

The Herald had this article all ready to go at 2pm:

” New Zealand elects first ever refugee MP: Golriz Ghahraman gains place: The Green Party’s Te Atatu candidate Golriz Ghahraman has been elected to parliament.”

But the thing is, she wasn’t elected by anyone. Individuals are elected to electorate seats, parties are elected for list seats. The credentials or otherwise of Ghahraman are irrelevant. She’s just the 8th name on the list.
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October 7, 2017 2:17pm
- cmm
  
  She’s the next Princess, being groomed to be your PM in 10 years or so.
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:25pm
  - KevOB
    
    The greens will be gone before that.
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:48pm
- Kimbo
  
  Is that like Bill English is 1st name on an alternative list?
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:25pm
- doggone7
  
  Yep, just a lister. Like Steven Joyce.
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:31pm
  - Evadne
    
    I’d object to the word “elect” for Steven Joyce as well. He wasn’t elected – his party was.
    
    My comment was never querying their right to be there, just the way it’s presented as some personal achievement. An 8th-ranked person getting in in 8th place is not a victory for themselves – or refugees, or whatever.
    
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    October 7, 2017 2:48pm
- Digmen1
  
  I wonder if they had an article ready to go if the Greens had dropped below 5%!
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:35pm
- MrTips
  
  I dub her Golriz MacBeth, Lady of the Hypocrite Knife. Human rights are my specialty- but only my rights when it comes to knifing old white men to get into Parliament.
  
  Shaw will be next. Guarantee it.
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:42pm
  - KevOB
    
    How will she get on proving her green claim. Prove that the IPCC hasn’t itself said that there is no validity in the forecasts it puts out for policy makers.
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:52pm
BananaLlama

Only Natural born citizens should be allowed to hold office in New Zealand.
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October 7, 2017 2:26pm
- cmm
  
  I’m not a natural born Kiwi, but I agree with that completely.
  
  I came to NZ because it is NZ, being run by Kiwis. The reason we’re not in a huge debt hole (like UK and USA) is that Kiwis are prepared to think long term and tighten their belts when required.
  
  Why do we have so many people coming to NZ, then thinking they should become MPs and change everything? This seems to be particularly strong in the Greens with Aussies, Yanks and Iranian MPs.
  
  If these people think NZ is so broken then why the fuck did they come here?
  
  If you love Muslims then why not go back to Iran? Way easier than bringing tens of thousands of them here.
  
  Ghahraman is particularly irksome:
  * She comes from a completely foreign culture
  * She is 36
  * Of that, she has only lived 5 years as an adult in NZ.
  
  What the fuck can she know about NZ values???
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:47pm
  - Gabby
    
    How long’s Comrade Jian been here again?
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:49pm
    - Steve (North Shore)
      
      How long have you been here? If you are a bona-fide New Zealander, you are certainly one of the weirdest ones
      
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      October 7, 2017 5:27pm
    - cmm
      
      Comrade Jian is not trying to turn NZ into China.
      
      He has lived through the fucked-upness of Communism and does not want a bar of it.
      
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      October 7, 2017 7:31pm
  - Rightandleft
    
    Why does someone have to think the country is broken to become an MP? Do you think the MPs running for National this election thought the country was broken and wanted to dramatically change it? Because National has MPs born in India and South Korea among others you know.
    
    People who are citizens of NZ and want to serve their country and better it stand for Parliament. You make it sound like they are insulting NZ just by standing for public office. What a horrific and pessimistic world view.
    
    Even NZ First has an Indian-born MP. Even that party, built on xenophobia, gets that immigrants are a part of NZ society, not just unwanted guests who the native-born must tolerate as long as they sit quietly in the corner.
    
    All citizens are equal under the law and have an equal right to a say in the governance of the country. Being born in NZ doesn’t make you any more of a New Zealander than someone who had to fight to get that honour. If anything immigrants are probably better able to appreciate the value of being a citizen of such a fair and democratic country.
    
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    October 7, 2017 5:01pm
    - cmm
      
      I think you will find that pretty much ALL the Greens (and Labour) will tell you the country is broken and needs a huge change (time for a change and all that).
      
      Genter became an MP after living in NZ for 5 years. Ghaharam for 5 years (effectively). Norman was here for 10 years. And they all jumped in trying to change everything.
      
      I think you will generally find the Indian born and Chinese born people in National are not wanting to change NZ, but want to see what we have here preserved. Maybe enhanced slightly, but generally preserved. They have seen how shit things can be elsewhere and know that what we have is very precious.
      
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      October 7, 2017 7:47pm
      - Rightandleft
        
        Right so immigrants are allowed to be MPs as long as they agree with your ideology.
        
        The Labour and Green Parties view National as trying to change NZ and their role as restoring it to its egalitarian pre 1984 values. So in their view the immigrants in those parties are fighting for traditional NZ values. It’s all about your point of view.
        
        That’s why it is nothing but racist or xenophobic nonsense to exclude immigrants from ever having a role in the government. I’m an immigrant and I’m not going to keep my mouth shut for the rest of my life about the future of my country, which I swore allegiance to. And anyone who thinks I should can fuck right off.
        
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        October 7, 2017 11:06pm
- sam green
  
  So no Caesarean section people then?
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:48pm
  - Kimbo
    
    “MacDuff was from his mother’s womb
    Untimely ripp’d!”.
    
    1 2
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    October 7, 2017 2:55pm
  - BananaLlama
    
    So long as there is no assholes involved then i am willing to bend a little.
    
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    October 7, 2017 3:02pm
- Rightandleft
  
  The fact this filth has so many upticks says a lot about the kind of xenophobic bigots who spend their time here.
  
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  October 7, 2017 4:51pm
  - BananaLlama
    
    Freedom of association now off you fuck.
    
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    October 7, 2017 7:57pm
cmm

According to Stuff: The gap closes.

No Stuff. The gap was reduced, but it has not closed, is not closing and it will not be closed.

The elections are now over and there’s nothing more forthcoming.
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October 7, 2017 2:29pm
Digmen1

National well over one million votes

Labour under one million votes

Well done National you deserve a fourth term.
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October 7, 2017 2:31pm
- Kimbo
  
  Well done National you deserve a fourth term.
  
  “Deserve has nothing to do with it!”
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kjYk2CrQF8
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:37pm
  - cmm
    
    Kimbo, you are right. Deserves has nothing to do with it.
    
    But with our election process we have asked them to do it and we have asked Labour-Greens not to do it (unless they cooperate with National).
    
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    October 7, 2017 2:50pm
    - Kimbo
      
      “Under MMP, even if you win a gold, you can be beaten by the winners of the silver, bronze and tin medals” (Mike Moore) 😉
      
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      October 7, 2017 3:03pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

It does make a NZF/Green/Labour coalition more viable with a 2 seat majority to neutralise waka jumpers. But not much change really.
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October 7, 2017 2:31pm
Digmen1

I don’t buy the waka jumpers argument now. All the very small parties have gone.
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October 7, 2017 2:33pm
RF

All stand. Here comes Princess Toothy with her page boy Grant.

God….. I hope I am sleeping and having a nightmare….
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October 7, 2017 2:35pm
niggly

I see the MSM are painting the results as “National 44.4%” versus “Labour + Greens Block 43.2%”.

Why do the MSM have be dishonestly inconsistent?

Eg why not simply say “National” v “Labour”?

Or “National + ACT Block 44.9%” (now with 42 seats) v “Labour + Green Block 43.2%” (but with still only 29 seats)!

Remember the Labour and Green MOU expired on election day, so now the Labour and Green Party’s should be regarded as two separate party’s, which they are as there is no formal coalition agreement between them (like National and ACT are referred to seperately by the MSM)!
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October 7, 2017 2:36pm
- cmm
  
  MSM are now distrusted more than used car salesmen.
  
  Any wonder why?
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:53pm
- Gabby
  
  I reckon they’re being nice to act, niggler. Nats 44.3%, nat/act ‘bloc’ 44.8%. Really pulling your weight there, act.
  
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  October 7, 2017 4:48pm
Evadne

Another Herald headline: “Audrey Young: Game on! PM Jacinda Ardern now a ‘real possibility'”

But it’s not a game. It’s the future of our country.

Over the past couple of months the media seem to have forgotten that government is real, and serious, not a ‘reality TV’ programme, or Facebook likes.
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October 7, 2017 2:45pm
- Digmen1
  
  That Audrey Young is one of the most biased reporters I have seen.
  
  Who owns the Herald?
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:50pm
  - Happychappy
    
    What a load of rubbish Audrey Young is usually one of our better scribes and why discover it any different than game on as that is what it is and who trust Winston to do any thing different than what he has in the past.
    
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    October 7, 2017 3:17pm
Paulus Gnome

I’m going out into the garden, I may be sometime . . . .
14 0
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October 7, 2017 2:46pm
- Digmen1
  
  I know how you feel. But don’t do it. We need you!
  
  9 1
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  October 7, 2017 2:51pm
- cmm
  
  Right know I’d even drink one of those shitty IPAs that Tom Hunter is talking about…
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:55pm
Rodney Randall

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/97644249/green-party-mp-golriz-ghahraman-humbled-and-excited-after-special-vote-win

“Fearing for their lives,” the Ghahramans were able to travel to New Zealand unimpeded, something refugees and asylum seekers today find difficult.

“I remember the fear and anxiety we carried for the journey, if we were turned back God knows what would have happened.”

“Making it down those escalators at Auckland Airport, and being welcomed, everyone we spoke to was so welcoming.”

Now “we don’t let anyone arrive here as asylum seekers”.

“Usually” refugees are stopped overseas trying to leave for New Zealand, she said.

As a new Greens MP, Ghahraman wants to “double then double again” New Zealand’s refugee quota and end what she calls the country’s “race-based” refugee entry criteria.

“At the moment New Zealand doesn’t accept anyone from Africa or the Middle East unless they have immediate family members here – that’s a massive downfall”.

A massive downfall or sensible security measures in light of continuing events throughout Europe and the rest of the world?

This woman needs to be monitored by our security forces.
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October 7, 2017 2:46pm
- Evadne
  
  To get any say on anything she’ll need to be in coalition with Winston, whose bottom line is a decrease in immigrants, and NZ for NZers.
  
  I’m sure they’ll find common ground somewhere…
  
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  October 7, 2017 2:55pm
- cmm
  
  She is 36 years old.
  
  Of that she came here at age 9, went to school here, then buggered off overseas to study and work with the UN and then came back to NZ in 2012.
  
  She has only lived here for 5 years as an adult and, maybe, 10 years as a kid.
  
  What can she know of the NZ values she is supposed to be upholding and protecting?
  
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  October 7, 2017 3:00pm
  - Gabby
    
    Surely you’re not arguing a propensity to travel counts against her cmmiebokkie. You didn’t spend your formative years here come to think of it did you. Arrived with your mentality fully formed and hardened.
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:31pm
    - cmm
      
      Gabby she is not signing up for a fucking travel show. She’s signing up as an MP.
      
      To do the job of an MP surely requires that you have actually lived in the country for a reasonable period of time and understand its people and what those people want.
      
      I have lived here for over 25 years and before that I lived in a country which at least had some shared history and a common ethnicity/history and language(ie. European/British).
      
      She has lived here for, say 10 years as a kid during which time she was slowly adapting. She then buggered off and has now been back for another 5 years working in NGOs and such.
      
      So basically she’s been here 5 years.
      
      No comparison. And, BTW, I’m not making laws telling people what to do.
      
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      October 7, 2017 4:43pm
- Kimbo
  
  This woman needs to be monitored by our security forces.
  
  Hmm. I can think of some Kiwibloggers with some…quixotic views on immigration, race and politics whom I would rather our security forces monitored than a duly-elected MP – and therefore a representative of all of us whether or not you agree with her – whose views and actions are largely fully disclosed. Given some of the pronouncements they have made in the last few months, kowtow, holysheet and howitis spring to mind…
  
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  October 7, 2017 3:12pm
  - Rodney Randall
    
    “At the moment New Zealand doesn’t accept anyone from Africa or the Middle East unless they have immediate family members here – that’s a massive downfall”. – Golriz
    
    A massive downfall that NZ doesn’t accept “anyone” from 3rd world Islamic shitholes.
    
    You old quisling Kimbo;)
    
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    October 7, 2017 3:26pm
    - Kimbo
      
      You old quisling Kimbo;)
      
      Yeah, you got my number, RR. I’ll whore myself and my politics for a decent kebab shop in the neighbourhood! 😉
      
      But semi-seriously, given the general incompetence of spooks, and the constitutional protection of the sovereignty of Parliament, I’m not too sure the SIS are the people to keep a tab on alleged rogue MPs/ And you want to allow that precedent once we do eventually get a Labour-Green government?! Be careful what you wish for. Any number of views among National MPs they could deem “dangerous” – including pro-dairy farming! – to the national interests.
      
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      October 7, 2017 3:29pm
    - SPC
      
      Not sure if that is true.
      
      We have Somali, and east and southern African nation refugees here (usually from Commonwealth nations). And there is no specific barrier on refugee intake from these areas or the ME at the moment either – I think we recently took in some Syrian refugees (or soon will).
      
      And students and skilled worker migrants come from wherever.
      
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      October 7, 2017 5:14pm
  - calendar girl
    
    I can’t agree that Ms Golriz Ghahraman is “….a representative of all of us whether or not (I) agree with her ….”.
    
    She will now take her seat in Parliament, by right, and make whatever contributions she may wish to its deliberations and decisions. But the only Members who can be expected to represent me are:
    (a) the individual Member elected by my Electorate (whether or not I voted for that person’s Party – after all, an elected Member is expected to represent his or her constituents as a whole); and
    (b) the List Members who gained their seats under the banner of the Party for which I cast my Party vote.
    
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    October 7, 2017 3:55pm
    - Kimbo
      
      Er, no. Although we do indeed have different local MPs, I think you will find that constitutionally they are collectively all our (as distinct from “my”, “your” or “their”) parliamentary representatives , just as of today, Bill English is our Prime Minister, and Jacinda Ardern our Leader of the Opposition, just as both are loyal to our sovereign, QEII, as are all our Parliament.
      
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      October 7, 2017 4:01pm
      - calendar girl
        
        You may be right with those descriptions but, if so, it would mean that I have no real elected representative of my views.
        
        I rely rather on the word “represent” which must be given some meaning in this context. I see a “representative” of a specific group of people as the person (or persons) actually chosen by the majority of that group.
        
        And loyalty to the Sovereign (capital “S” if you don’t mind!) is a function of acceptance of office, not election to that office.
        
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        October 7, 2017 4:34pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Fair call on the “S” (Sorry QEII!)
        
        Yes, fair call – Golriz may not be your or my chosen or designated representative. but she is still ours.
        
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        October 7, 2017 4:38pm
Duxton

And Grilza G-Spot isn’t isn’t New Zealand’s first-ever former refugee to become an MP either. There were several of them in the nineteenth and early twentieth century – Maori MHRs who had previously been driven from their tribal lands, and were therefore former refugees.
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October 7, 2017 2:51pm
- cha
  
  desperate
  
  so sad
  
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  October 7, 2017 3:00pm
- mikenmild
  
  Citation please.
  
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  October 7, 2017 3:03pm
  - BananaLlama
    
    Tomoana, Henare is one you ignorant left wing racists.
    
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    October 7, 2017 3:14pm
    - Duxton
      
      Sorry, accidentally down-ticked you, BL.
      
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      October 7, 2017 3:30pm
first25plus5

Three seats stand out (since the 2008 general election there has been more) as having been won (as it would turn out) by the government formed after the election.
Rotorua (since 1990 election), Hamilton West and Maungakiekie (both since 1996 election).
This election in 2017 all three have been won by National.
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October 7, 2017 2:52pm
Digmen1

We told you Labour and the Greens mean more refugees.
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October 7, 2017 2:52pm
GoVege

I knew my special vote for Labour/ Green would swing this election!
Yippee! !
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October 7, 2017 3:10pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  You hate Maori but you are happy to bring in more Muslims?
  
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  October 7, 2017 3:58pm
  - GoVege
    
    Who hates Maori?
    Moi?
    I love Maori!
    I just don’t like the sexist aspects of their culture.
    And Maori leaders who promote them…
    
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    October 7, 2017 7:49pm
Longknives

So Labour and The Greens are going to ‘Double the Islamic Refugee intake’ then ‘Double it again’??
Utterly Chilling.
If Winston goes with this Coalition of Communists,Activists and Assorted Loony Leftys innocent New Zealanders will die in Terrorist attacks. (And we already know whose side this vile Ghahraman woman will be on when the bloodshed starts…)
Christ I need a drink..
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October 7, 2017 3:13pm
- mikenmild
  
  Where did anyone talk about doubling the intake of <Muslim refugees?
  
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  October 7, 2017 3:14pm
  - Duxton
    
    She talks about countries in the Muslim-majority regions of Africa, for a start. You can bet Burka Barbie isn’t referring to persecuted Christians from those countries.
    
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    October 7, 2017 3:28pm
    - Rightandleft
      
      You do realise she isn’t a Muslim herself and actually fled a Muslim theocracy to escape those people.
      
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      October 7, 2017 5:10pm
- GoVege
  
  You sound like you may have had a few too many already Long knives.
  Don’t be silly…Winston will never let heaps of Muslim refugees in.
  
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  October 7, 2017 7:52pm
Rodney Randall

“I got to a point in Cambodia, where I realised I’d been away for 5 years or so. Because I’m a refugee I can’t go back to Iran, I dont have a true true home in a way. At some point I would have lived as an expat longer, than I’d lived anywhere permanently, so I couldn’t say I’m from New Zealand anymore, and I can’t go back to Iran.”

“As a human rights advocate, I’d fight to the death for someone’s right to wear the Hijab” – Golriz, Metro Magazine.

“Placing children with adult prisoners is recognised as one of the most damaging forms of abuse in human rights law.” Golriz (twitter)

Oxford educated and pronounces “t’s” as “d’s” as in communidee (community) and pardee (party).

Gotta get that kiwi lingo down. Easier to massage your way in.

Play em for fools
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October 7, 2017 3:16pm
niggly

Interesting in terms of the special vote count. It appears:

National gained 153,262 votes.

Labour gained 179,628 votes.

Although Labour gained 26,366 more special votes than National, I would have expected Labour to have gained a lot more special votes (and National a lot less) thanks to the MSM and Labour hype and spin!

So it now looks like the “Jacinda-affect” was over-rated by the MSM, and one still ought to be very weary of them!
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October 7, 2017 3:19pm
- fluffykiwi
  
  Indeed, I wonder how many force fed students enrolled and voted on the same day, or those at the supermarket etc.,
  Jacinda will have to hold their hand in 3 years to get them to vote again and also of course she will be at university and schools drumming up yet more children to vote.
  It sort of tells you that labour’s policies do not find favour with working people who know the value and how hard it is to earn that dollar. Easy to curry favour with children, you just give them lollies, unless they have been warned not to take them from strangers, but then they will be the national party voters.
  
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  October 7, 2017 4:35pm
  - niggly
    
    “Indeed, I wonder how many force fed students enrolled and voted on the same day, or those at the supermarket etc.”
    
    I feel Labour and Jacinda especially “force feeding students” to enroll and vote for them makes a mockery of democracy.
    
    In essence Labour and Jacinda are trivialising what politics is about (eg policy, debating the pros and cons, looking at alternatives, seeking input etc), by applying a glossy fake marketing campaigns approach, which also demeans students as being “stupid” who need to be told what to “buy” (brand Labour).
    
    If National did this, it would be just as bad, there would be an outcry and the MSM and Opinion writers would be calling them out. But no, Jacinda does it and the MSM don’t bat an eyelid!
    
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    October 7, 2017 5:01pm
flipper

If you have not already seen the detail, here it is….

Party % Total seats Votes Electorate List Total
NAT 44.40% 56 1,152,075 41 15 56

LAB 36.90% 46 956,184 29 17 46

NZF 7.20% 9 186,706 0 9 9

GP 6.30% 8 162,443 0 8 8

ACT 0.50% 1 13,075 1 0 1

Other 4,6% 0 121,413 0 0 0

2,591,896 71 49 120
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October 7, 2017 3:28pm
- Piniwi
  
  Thanks flipper. It also highlights what a farce the MMP system is when we compare the list seats.
  N – 76805 votes per seat with 44.4% and 15 list
  L – 56246 votes per seat with 36.9% and 17 list
  NZF – 20745 votes per seat with 7.2% and 9 list
  G – 20305 votes per seat with 6.3% and 8 list
  And it is supposed to be proportional? Time to get rid of the fancy algorithm.
  
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  October 7, 2017 4:20pm
flipper

To be clear ……….

Party % Total seats Votes Electorate List Total
NAT 44.40% 56 1,152,075 41 15 56
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October 7, 2017 3:35pm
Fletch

So, as I thought, this changes not a lot really. National still got more votes, Labour second, etc. If this were the Melbourne Cup the winning horses would be in the same order with the Greens coming in at the rear with Act, so hold on to your ticket stubs.
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October 7, 2017 3:37pm
- Kimbo
  
  …but the bargaining position of Labour-Greens has improved. A three-seat majority is a much better buffer in a coalition with NZ First than just 1.
  
  Although it is still more likely to be National-NZ First.
  
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  October 7, 2017 3:39pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Greens got closer to Winston too though, one more percentage point and he would be third not second fiddle. Is that correct?
    I bet Labour and Greens would like that order to have been reversed.
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:04pm
  - waikatogirl
    
    Too small a percentage by NZF and GP to be significant but they get to decide the winner… Too small to be considered the tail wagging the dog, more like the fleas on the tail.
    
    Nothing has changed from last week. Roll on the 12th so Winnie can put us all out of our misery, one way or the other. ?
    
    I need a drink!
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:16pm
tom hunter

Oh who cares about all this government stuff.

The important thing to note is that the Cubs beat the Nationals – and by 3-0 in the first game of their best-of-five National League Divisional series.

Not what I expected in the sense that the Nationals are much better run-scorers than this, and the Cubs starting pitcher, Hendricks, has not been on form. Have not seen the video but he must have been pretty bloody good to blank them through six innings.

Oh yeah – and the Indians beat the Yankees in the first game of their AL Divisional. Hahahahahaah – the Yanks must have thought they had the game wrapped up at 8-3 in the 6th. Sorry boys – the Indians are way better than that.
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October 7, 2017 3:38pm
- Kimbo
  
  Meanwhile in the American League Division Series both the Red Sox and the Yankees trail 0-2 in their best of 5 playoffs. The second New York-Cleveland game went to 13 innings!
  
  https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/10/06/yankees-indians-alds-francisco-lindor-grand-slam
  
  Looks like it could be the Indians’ year
  
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  October 7, 2017 3:45pm
- tom hunter
  
  Yeah – they really gutted it out. But they’ve got recent playoff and WS experience now. They’re not going to buckle before the “mighty Yankees”.
  
  The Astros result did not surprise. Their pitching staff have just been superb this year. Unless something goes badly wrong I can’t see them losing to the Red Soz – they might even sweep them!
  
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  October 7, 2017 4:01pm
flipper

Fletch ……….
Yep, about 200000 more. So that more than Labour + Green
and/or more than
Labour + Peters.
So, Mr Peters ……….
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October 7, 2017 3:45pm
Shunda barunda

Does the Green party have any MP’s that are actually born in NZ?
Why is it that people with Australian, American, British, and Iranian (though she has clearly worked hard on sounding more ‘kiwi’) accents are now in the position of telling the rest of us what our values should be?
Even Jacinda started talking about global trends and our “duty” to uphold these foreign concepts.
What ever happened to a nation determining it’s own values organically? why do we accept these ideologically driven hacks as leadership material?
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October 7, 2017 3:55pm
- Kimbo
  
  Um, you do know that one-time NZ Prime Ministers
  
  R J Seddon
  Joseph Ward
  William Massey
  MJ Savage
  Peter Fraser
  and Walter Nash
  
  …were all born outside of, and in some cases raised outside of NZ?
  
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  October 7, 2017 4:07pm
  - Shunda barunda
    
    Yes, as is the case with a nation of settlers that is barely 5 mins old. Time has progressed, a nation has been built.
    Most of them also believed that NZ should determine its own direction whilst retaining the best aspects of British society and rejecting the worst.
    These are the people that believed in western values, true liberty and especially freedom of speech.
    The current imported left are all about one thing – bringing the NZ populace to heel.
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:19pm
    - Kimbo
      
      I think you will find contemporaries were not so sanguine about the politics of Savage, Fraser and Nash, especially as they spent time in prison during the Great War for opposing conscription, and/or were fined for sedition.
      
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      October 7, 2017 4:28pm
      - Shunda barunda
        
        WW1 had the most dramatic affect on shaping our young nation, it revealed that we needed to determine our own path and not be drawn into global ideology for the sake of loyalty toward those that were not particularly loyal to us.
        In a sense it was the moment NZ came of age.
        So this actually reinforces my point, the left in this country are determined to bring NZers to heel to a global ideology that ultimately will chew us up and spit us out without a second glance.
        How many of the emerging left wing politicians have actually spent most of their lives in this country? How many have lived most of their adult lives serving in international socialist organizations or institutions?
        It’s all in plain sight. These people are ideologues with an agenda to aggressively wag the dog.
        
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        October 7, 2017 4:40pm
      - Kimbo
        
        WW1 had the most dramatic affect on shaping our young nation, it revealed that we needed to determine our own path and not be drawn into global ideology for the sake of loyalty toward those that were not particularly loyal to us.
        
        No, I think you are mistaking the Great War – and World War II, and the Cold War for that matter too – with the birth of an independent NZ foreign policy under Norman Kirk in the post-Vietnam War era some 60 years later. Which was a baton picked up buy the 4th Labour Government in 194-85. We were, after all, the one British Dominion that didn’t accept the offer of the Statute of Westminster when it was first offered in 1931, and it was only in 1947 that we became supposedly independent!
        
        Nonetheless you believe what you do about the alleged danger posed by the radical left. Not that I entirely disagree, and fair enough. Although, not for the first time I think you have lost perspective as evidenced by your mistaken and/or selective recounting of historical facts.
        
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        October 7, 2017 4:48pm
      - Kimbo
        
        He he he – what’s that thing where you call another out for misstating facts you invariably make your own! 😉
        
        Other than Newfoundland which was a special case we were the last to adopt the Statute of Westminster, but the others did not all do so immediately:
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Westminster_1931
        
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        October 7, 2017 5:09pm
      - SPC
        
        Local parrots peddling the line that lefties are the “un-Kiwi” of this land … the new un-Americans.
        
        Maybe we need a select committee the un-Kiwi Activities Watch … and invite people from Homeland Security as experts on identifying alien threats preaching the end of this world order and the coming of some new kingdom ending our way of life …
        
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        October 7, 2017 5:29pm
      - Shunda barunda
        
        “Maybe we need a select committee the un-Kiwi Activities Watch … and invite people from Homeland Security as experts on identifying alien threats preaching the end of this world order and the coming of some new kingdom ending our way of life …”
        
        Or maybe we just have to open our eyes and take a look at the massive erosion of free speech driven solely by the contemporary left. This is what ideologues HAVE to do when their ideas are….well. “shit”.
        There is no need for elaborate conspiracy theories and tin foil hat manufacturing, you just have to observe what is happening right now in western universities.
        
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        October 7, 2017 5:58pm
  - Rodney Randall
    
    Don’t forget they were also refugees from 3rd world Islamic shitholes and once here, advocated for quadrupling the ‘refugee’ intake from said regions because… diversity/feelings and Islam is a religion of peace;)
    
    Anyway, Balfour senior womens just beat Haast senior womens in indoor bowls
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:20pm
  - KevOB
    
    That’s 100 years ago.
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:58pm
- Shunda barunda
  
  Winston Peters is in a difficult position if he goes with the left. If he accepts James Shaw’s salivating over the prospect of “the most progressive government in NZ history” (and we all know what that means) and that ideologically driven cancer begins to accelerate, then Winston will prove to the country once and for all that he is nothing but a complete fraud. His legacy will be one of a sellout and nothing more, NZ first will be gone for good.
  
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  October 7, 2017 4:12pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    You are right there but what if he goes with Labour and demands from Labour the Greens will not be in Cabinet? There is also the matter of the Maori seats. Bill English should not have a problem with that now. What about a binding referendum on smacking? I do not think Labour let alone the Greens will be happy with that.
    
    No one knows which way Winston will go including Winston.
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:22pm
    - Happychappy
      
      You in làla land Chuck if you think that Winston will still want a referendum on the Maori Seats as hè has already said there is no need for one as they no longer are in Parliment. You have put to much faith in your Messiah and I will be waiting for you to call him a liar like you did to John Key.
      
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      October 7, 2017 5:20pm
      - Ross12
        
        Happychappy
        Aren’t you mixing up the Maori seats with Maori Party seats –two totally different things.
        
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        October 7, 2017 5:26pm
      - Happychappy
        
        Ross12 : Listen to Winston in his Australian interview and that is what he said.
        
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        October 7, 2017 5:42pm
      - Ross12
        
        How could have he meant a referendum on Maori Party seats ? That’s rubbish , we cannot have a referendum on a particular party we may or may not like. He must have had too many whiskies before the Sky interview.
        
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        October 7, 2017 6:01pm
      - Happychappy
        
        Ross12 Winston said we don’t need a referendum now because the Maori Party are no longer in Parliament and that was what it was for. He has also said it was to be a referendum for Maori not the Country.
        
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        October 7, 2017 6:25pm
      - Ross12
        
        From the NZF website
        
        “MĀORI SEATS REFERENDUM
        
        Māori don’t need the Māori seats. They don’t need tokenism. That is why we commit to a referendum of all electors to retain or abolish the Māori seats.”
        
        To me that reads as the Maori seast not the Maori Party seats. It is also clear the referendum is for everybody if it occurs.
        
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        October 7, 2017 7:11pm
      - Happychappy
        
        Ross12 :Go listen to him the morning after the Election and he says the opposite so no mater what you say Winston has also said a different story. He also threatened to to throw a journalist inthe water at the same venue.Maybe you should listen to the Bolt interview from Australia.
        
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        October 7, 2017 8:23pm
      - Ross12
        
        If he / NZF have changed their minds about the referendum and what they had in their policy that’s fine–I don’t care. All political parties change their policies.
        But he can’t now pretend the original policy for a referendum was to do with Maori Party seats. That is obviously crap and could never have happened.
        
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        October 7, 2017 8:44pm
- Gabby
  
  Do they have any Chinese Comunists shunta bumunta?
  
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  October 7, 2017 4:16pm
  - Shunda barunda
    
    Labour generally bring Chinese communists in only if they make substantial donations to the party. The NZ left don’t like Asians, when Asians move here they tend to enjoy life free from the communist regime back home. Those Asians tend to sniff out the inherent reek of Marxism and vote against it, so become politically worthless to the left. The NZ left prefer Muslims because they share the same hatred for western values and are more politically useful, do try to keep up.
    
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    October 7, 2017 4:27pm
    - mikenmild
      
      You don’t think National’s pet commie MP is an important fundraiser?
      
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      October 7, 2017 4:46pm
Ross12

It is interesting looking at 2014 v 2017 and where the votes.
Labour improved significantly , National marginal increase etc.
Everyone seems to think ACT crashed but they are down about 3000 from 2014 –not really a crash.
What I cannot really work out is where all the Conservative Party vote went –from 95,598 down to 6,253. The big drop was expected but where did the 90k votes go — would not expect all to have gone to Labour ?
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October 7, 2017 4:10pm
- mikenmild
  
  Those Conservative Party votes were probably evenly divided between fringe loonies and spoiled ballot papers.
  
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  October 7, 2017 4:48pm
- Muttonbird
  
  Ross. You can be sure most 2014 Cons votes went to back to National and a few to NZF.
  
  National then lost a significant number to Labour, as did the Greens and NZF.
  
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  October 7, 2017 6:14pm
  - Ross12
    
    About right, I think Muttonbird. A good way of putting it.
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:56pm
Chuck Bird

Ross, I would guess a lot went to NZF and some to the Nats but few to the left.
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October 7, 2017 4:23pm
- Ross12
  
  No, I don’t think so Chuck –NZF lost votes compared to 2014 ( 208,300 vs 186,706) and National only went up 20574. So those figures basically balance each other out.
  The other way to look at it is National lost quite a few “soft” votes to Labour.
  
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  October 7, 2017 4:36pm
cha

Trump will be pissed off when he finds out Weinstein negotiated a better deal with Vance.

Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein’s lawyer delivered $10,000 to Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance, Jr. in 2015, in the months after Vance’s office decided not to prosecute Weinstein over sexual assault allegations, according to an International Business Times review of campaign finance documents.

[…]

The revelations about the dropped Weinstein investigation come on the heels of a recent report documenting how Vance declined to prosecute Ivanka Trump and Donald Trump, Jr. after Trump’s attorney Marc Kasowitz gave Vance’s campaign $25,000. According to ProPublica, Kasowitz made the donation, then met with Vance directly and then Vance dropped the case, overruling his own prosecutors.

http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/harvey-weinsteins-lawyer-gave-10000-manhattan-da-after-he-declined-file-sexual
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October 7, 2017 4:32pm
- tom hunter
  
  Chuckle.
  
  Doesn’t change the fact that a shitload of Hollywood wankers have been preaching about sexism and mysogny for years while they knew what Weinstein was doing.
  
  Joss Whedon also. Actually this deserves to go in the most recent “hypocrite” thread.
  
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  October 7, 2017 6:06pm
Viking2

“I want to end poverty in New Zealand, and I want to see real action taken on climate change.”

The new MP was ready to work with New Zealand First leader Winston Peters, despite his party’s stance on immigration.

“This is about democracy … the majority of New Zealanders do want us to work together and to form the next government and change this government.

“People have voted for Winston Peters and they’ve voted for us to work with him and to create that next stable government.”

Really, Please show me how this works!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/97644249/green-party-mp-golriz-ghahraman-humbled-and-excited-after-special-vote-win
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October 7, 2017 4:46pm
SPC

This is the result that Winston Peters wanted.

A Labour-NZ First government backed by Greens is now an option.

With Mallard as speaker, still a 62-57 majority in the House. Enough to govern with a bit to spare (have to lose 3 MP’s for it to end).

How badly National want to be a 4th term government will now be revealed.
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October 7, 2017 5:03pm
- GoVege
  
  Cool!!!
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:23pm
Digmen1

So now the agony begins.

As I see it there are three factors

1 The number of seats
2 Which Party will fit best with NZF policy wise
3 Which grouping will be easiest to manage
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October 7, 2017 5:15pm
- fluffykiwi
  
  Which party grouping will be the easiest to manage. that probably sums it up. If Winnie is a thinking man that is.
  
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  October 7, 2017 7:17pm
Digmen1

NZF want less immigration Labour as well, but National can offer to cut it back.

NZF wants Reserve Bank Act changed. I don’t think National would like that

NZF wants to go into Pike River – easy for National to agree to that

NZF wants to keep Super at 65. easy For National to agree to that.

What else, I’ve forgotten.
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October 7, 2017 5:17pm
flipper

Put all the wishful bullshit aside….
Fact National got 1,152,075 votes – 44.4%
Fact National increased its vote in 2017
Fact Labour increased its vote in 2017, but
Fact Labour got 956,184 votes – 36.9%
Now, please make your case that “this is vote for change to Labour.”
The Toothfairy is having such fun conning the media.
I hate to say it, but Peters can smell the smoke, and he would know that of he goes with Labour he can kiss NZF goodbye.
English et al have policy and bauble room to accommodate Peters.
Ergo, he will go with National and extract a price that keeps him , Mark and Jones in clover.
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October 7, 2017 5:52pm
- SPC
  
  KIS.
  
  National ACT 45
  Labour Green 43
  
  NZF 7.5 BOP.
  
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  October 7, 2017 5:56pm
sooty

The bent penny still came last in Tamaki.
Still beaten by the informal votes.
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October 7, 2017 6:12pm
Rachael Membery

A female friend of mine in her 50’s voted for the first time this election. Yes, I encouraged her to enrol, no I had no influence on how she voted.
She voted for NZ First, her family all vote Labour, she has for the first time actually followed some political news stories, (I know…) lol and it was only after she entered the polling station and took in the unexciting venue that she looked at the ballot paper and liked the sentiment expressed in the words ‘NZ First’ and that was how she voted.

So Winston, that is what I expect you to do, to put NZ First. I believe that NZ is being well served by its currently caretaking Government, I am not a fan of change for change sake or because someone thinks that it is their turn.

The sentiment expressed in ‘NZ First’ should be self fulfilling. NZ voted for the status quo.
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October 7, 2017 6:44pm
publicwatchdog

Looking forward to an inquiry regarding how, on the watch of ‘financial helmsmen’ Bill English and Steven Joyce, a Crown Entity Company (Tamaki Regeneration Ltd) – with $1.6 billion of former Tamaki Housing NZ properties – was not listed under Sch 4A of the Public Finance Act, or Sch 2 of the Crown Entities Act?

Or listed as a company monitored by Treasury’s Crown Company Monitoring Advisory Unit?

How ‘banana republic’ is THAT?

Penny Bright

‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption whistle-blower’.
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October 7, 2017 7:57pm
- nasska
  
  ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption whistle-blower’
  
  You left out lunatic, rates defaulter & all time pain in the arse. ?
  
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  October 7, 2017 8:09pm
  - Happychappy
    
    The question the not so bright penny should ask herself is when is Phil Goff going to grow some balls and confiscate the $camping ratebludgers house.
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:32pm
  - stigie
    
    She must owe over 40 grand by now to the AC.
    When will the hovel be sold and the filthy cats given away to her filthy green mates..?
    
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    October 7, 2017 8:49pm
the deity formerly known as nigel6888

Gotta say DPF, been very quiet on the electoral count this arvo. 2 seats. Hmm this could be worst case scenario – imagine, labour that was heading for 20% before they added the jacinderalla effect, plus the greens, who think stealing is more important than saving the planet, and then the old and confused, who for some reason seem to think inflicting Shane Jones on us is a good idea!!!!

From my perspective, wha hay! A labour “led” government will be a very happy time for my profession.

My prediction – 6 months of we dont want you steenking white privileged neocom racist, alt – right nazis, followed by, hell we need to deliver the agenda in year 2 so we can run a quiet steady as she goes election, and then turn sharp left.

Unfortanately, they will rush the game, and reveal the hand too soon, that’s why Jacinderalla is about to auction her political virginity to take control of the country. Go comrade!
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October 7, 2017 8:08pm
Maggy Wassilieff

No boys or girls at this Swedish pre-school, just hens.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/28/health/sweden-gender-neutral-preschool/index.html
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October 7, 2017 9:41pm
Jack5

An interesting post on Chinese Communist stirring in Australia:

https://croakingcassandra.com/2017/10/06/some-australia-perspectives-on-prc-influence-seeking/
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October 7, 2017 10:00pm

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