General Debate 31 October 2017

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William of Ockham

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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/30/global-atmospheric-co2-levels-hit-record-high
Global atmospheric CO2 levels hit record high. Monday 30 October 2017

New report from the World Meteorological Organisation: https://public.wmo.int/en/media/press-release/greenhouse-gas-concentrations-surge-new-record

The concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increased at record speed last year to hit a level not seen for more than three million years.

Globally averaged concentrations of CO2 reached 403.3 parts per million (ppm) in 2016, up from 400.00 ppm in 2015 because of a combination of human activities and a strong El Niño event.

This acceleration occurred despite a slowdown of emissions because El Niño intensified droughts and weakened the ability of vegetation to absorb carbon dioxide. As the planet warms, El Niños are expected to become more frequent.

Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is now increasing 100 times faster than at the end of the last ice age due to population growth, intensive agriculture, deforestation and industrialisation.

The last time Earth experienced similar CO2 concentration rates was during the Pliocene era (three to five million years ago), when the sea level was up to 20m higher than now.
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October 31, 2017 8:01am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  FFS, here we go again.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:10am
- JIV
  
  And yet no warming in 19 years! I guess theres no correlation after all.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:14am
  - Simon
    
    Yep the warmists are in denial about the pause
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:17am
- Victor Omega
  
  So the cause is anthropomorphic yet last occurred 3 to 5 million years ago. I lol’d.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:18am
  - SGA
    
    That doesn’t logically follow, does it? Just because other things are capable of producing increases in CO2 (I think periods of intense volcanic activity can do that, for example, there may be others), doesn’t mean that the current increase we see isn’t anthropogenic. Can’t quite follow your reasoning.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:45am
    - treadingthemill
      
      Even if the current warming was partly natural, that would not mean reducing our role in the process will not help. And you are right, past warming does not preclude human’s being responsible for the current warming. An awful lot of scientists would have to be completely wrong for the claim that human’s are playing no role in global warming to be true, ditto for the claim that the earth is not warming at all. There is just too much evidence for it.
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:01am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        I agree, global warming is real, it is the magnitude and attribution that are less certain. What has become clear though is that the water-feedbacks that were at one time thought to be dangerously high, are in fact low. 15years of Argo buoy data have placed tight bounds on how much energy is being absorbed by earth, and it is far too low for the (IPCC wet-dream) thermogeddonist future to come true.
        http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Climate-Sensitivity-Value-Estimates-Declining-Scafetta-2017.jpg
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:50am
      - Gruffydd
        
        Yess urban a load of rubbish from Tricks zone for halfwits.
        Mostly linking to pay to publish rubbish that contradicts itself.
        Only a fuckwit gets science from such a source.
        Here is potholer 54 addressing the first three claims.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFDnxMp0Hw8
        I checked the forth its not even a paper its Joe Novas husbands force x and the notch rubbish published in a book
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:08am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        An awful lot of scientists would have to be completely wrong for the claim that human’s are playing no role in global warming to be true,
        
        Very few scientists make the claim that humans play no role in global warming… but there are many scientists who think the human effect is minuscule in relation to the natural variability of global climate.
        The role of anthropogenic CO2 is vastly overwhelmed by natural CO2 outputs and other “greenhouse” gases such as water vapour.
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:11am
      - Gruffydd
        
        Yess maggy talking nonsense again .
        Water vapor is a condensing gas .
        The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is directly depended on temperature
        That’s basic physics that you are denying lovey.
        The increase in CO2 is directly in response to our emissions .
        So you are as usual gibbering shite lovey .
        
        Under typical atmospheric conditions, the denominator of the exponent depends weakly on T {\displaystyle T} T (for which the unit is Celsius). Therefore, the August-Roche-Magnus equation implies that saturation water vapor pressure changes approximately exponentially with temperature under typical atmospheric conditions, and hence the water-holding capacity of the atmosphere increases by about 7% for every 1 °C rise in temperature
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clausius%E2%80%93Clapeyron_relation
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:38am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        So you are as usual gibbering shite lovey .
        
        You have already called me a piece of shit on this site.
        
        Why a piece of shit that talks shit would be your “lovey” is beyond me.
        
        But foul sexist abuse has never been my thing.
        
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        October 31, 2017 11:08am
      - treadingthemill
        
        @ Maggy
        
        Very few scientists make the claim that humans play no role in global warming… but there are many scientists who think the human effect is minuscule in relation to the natural variability of global climate.
        
        There are some, that is true, but are they a significant number, let alone a majority? That is not my impression. While science is not simply a matter of a majority vote, I don’t think we can easily dismiss the majority view.
        
        And while it’s not my place to do so, I feel a really strong need to apologise for Gruffydd’s response to you. Sexist and demeaning put downs are not OK, and add nothing of value to the debate. Far too many people here play the man, or women, instead of the ball.
        
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        October 31, 2017 12:12pm
      - holysheet
        
        Gryff said
        “She has a long history of ignoring what I say”
        
        Well let me tell you griff, she is not the only one on here that does that. I would say the majority of us agree with what she says and how she says it.
        
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        October 31, 2017 1:01pm
  - cmm
    
    Mars is also having global warming issues.
    
    They better get their SUV drivers under control!
    
    No doubt Elon Musk will happily sell them electric cars if there is a trough involved. Perhaps that is why he started SpaceX.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:46am
    - SGA
      
      @cmm
      
      Mars is also having global warming issues.
      
      Sheesh, cmm, that’s a scary comparison. Whose side are you on? 🙂 🙂 🙂
      
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      October 31, 2017 8:40pm
  - flipper
    
    I don’t think the mad ex dentist is qualified to spout on geology. But my internationally published geologist brother is, and he says the so called correlation is garbage. Actually he used stronger words about billie of ockie. He appears to me to have an addiction to lignocaine.
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:05am
    - Gruffydd
      
      Another of you friends flipper
      lets see what the geological societys say eh.
      European Federation of Geologists
      
      The EFG recognizes the work of the IPCC and other organizations, and subscribes to the major findings that climate change is happening, is predominantly caused by anthropogenic emissions of CO2, and poses a significant threat to human civilization.
      
      It is clear that major efforts are necessary to quickly and strongly reduce CO2 emissions. The EFG strongly advocates renewable and sustainable energy production, including geothermal energy, as well as the need for increasing energy efficiency.
      
      CCS [Carbon Capture and geological Storage] should also be regarded as a bridging technology, facilitating the move towards a carbon free economy
      
      Geological Society of America
      
      Decades of scientific research have shown that climate can change from both natural and anthropogenic causes. The Geological Society of America (GSA) concurs with assessments by the National Academies of Science (2005), the National Research Council (2006), and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC, 2007) that global climate has warmed and that human activities (mainly greenhouse‐gas emissions) account for most of the warming since the middle 1900s. If current trends continue, the projected increase in global temperature by the end of the twenty first century will result in large impacts on humans and other species. Addressing the challenges posed by climate change will require a combination of adaptation to the changes that are likely to occur and global reductions of CO2 emissions from anthropogenic sources
      
      Geological Society of London
      
      There is now widespread concern that the Earth’s climate will warm further, not only because of the lingering effects of the added carbon already in the system, but also because of further additions as human population continues to grow. Life on Earth has survived large climate changes in the past, but extinctions and major redistribution of species have been associated with many of them. When the human population was small and nomadic, a rise in sea level of a few metres would have had very little effect on Homo sapiens. With the current and growing global population, much of which is concentrated in coastal cities, such a rise in sea level would have a drastic effect on our complex society, especially if the climate were to change as suddenly as it has at times in the past. Equally, it seems likely that as warming continues some areas may experience less precipitation leading to drought. With both rising seas and increasing drought, pressure for human migration could result on a large scale
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:23am
      - flipper
        
        There you go again Griffie… talking shit as always and quoting troughers whose main pre-occupation is with funding,
        Bugger off you fool!
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:51am
      - Gruffydd
        
        ROFL
        yess flippy
        One anonymous nutter or the geological society’s of the world.
        Gee that’s hard.
        If you sit in a corner dribbling.
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:12am
      - KevOB
        
        The IPCC itself has denounced its ability to forecast climate change but they didn’t put that in the summary for policymakers.
        
        https://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/504.htm
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:50am
  - Fletch
    
    This is worth reading –
    
    The István Markó Interview: Possibly the Best Thing You Will Ever Read on Global Warming. Pt 1: The Science.
    
    Some of the points he makes (and goes into in more detail in the linked interview) –
    
    CO2 is not – and has never been a poison. Plants love CO2. That’s why the planet is greening. There have been periods where the CO2 concentration was many times higher than now. Life thrived. Animals need CO2 too. And by the way – forests are not the ‘lungs of the earth’, the oceans are. Climate change is natural. Don’t worry about shrinking glaciers. We’ve been here before. Sea level rise is normal. The polar ice caps are fine too. Recent warming is modest – much smaller than the alarmists’ various computer models predicted.
    
    It is not true that CO2 has a major greenhouse effect. Reports of its influence have been exaggerated
    
    It is worth remembering here too that CO2 is a minor gas. Today it represents only 0.04 percent of the composition of the air; and its greenhouse effect is attributed the value of 1. The major greenhouse gas in the atmosphere is water vapor which is ten times more potent than CO2 in its greenhouse effect. Water vapor is present in a proportion of 2 percent in the atmosphere. Those facts are, in principle, taught at school and at university, but one still manages to incriminate CO2 alongside this learning, in using a dirty trick that presents the warming effect of CO2 as minor but exacerbated, through feedback loops, by the other greenhouse effects.
    
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/10/28/the-istvan-marko-interview-possibly-the-best-thing-you-will-ever-read-on-global-warming-pt-1-the-science/
    
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    October 31, 2017 10:32am
- holysheet
  
  Forgive me good KBers, but I must respond to the village idiot.
  His last 2 paragraphs contradict each other.
  What caused the increase in Co2 5 million years ago? There was no human activity, so why blame this rise on that now?
  His claim of the following belies belief:
  “The concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increased at record speed last year to hit a level not seen for more than three million years”
  
  My question to him is “if the above statement is true, why are the sea levels NOW not at the same levels of 20M as they were all those millions of years ago?
  
  The village is definately missing it’s idiot.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:20am
  - Paulus
    
    But at the time Dinosaurs farted which created warming.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:28am
    - PhilBest
      
      The irony is that farting Buffalo, Vildebeest, Antelopes etc should be culled if the Green neo-pagans had any consistency.
      
      But even insects have an impact, and it is possible that there is even more insect life on the planet, by mass, than there is human life. Humans are concentrated in cities, which are 0.8% of the planet’s surface. Insects teem everywhere.
      
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      October 31, 2017 8:33am
  - cmm
    
    Almost all methane and CO2 in the world is caused by bacteria whether it is in the gut of an animal, the forest floor or a marsh.
    
    Even in NZ with our high animal to population ratio, our forests and wetlands generate most of the methane and CO2.
    
    All that is a NATURAL process. All of the CO2/methane comes from carbon that was first extracted from the atmosphere by photosynthesis (grass etc). Therefore all of this is already NATURALLY carbon neutral.
    
    This will only change when cows start eating coal and drinking diesel.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:53am
    - treadingthemill
      
      All that is a NATURAL process.
      
      Then why has the warming accelerated in recent decades? Why was there no warming for most of the previous centuries? Why did we have a mini ice age a few centuries ago? If natural CO2 emissions were the cause of global warming, that we would have faced a catastrophic global warming problem previously, and the earth’s environment would be drastically different than it is. The only logical conclusion is that something on top of natural CO2 production has increased the amount of CO2 being released.
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:08am
      - cmm
        
        Some other NATURAL process?
        
        Of course governments won’t go look there because there’s nothing to tax.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:16am
      - Gruffydd
        
        Gee CMM for you that’s stupid .
        What happens when you burn hydrocarbons?
        y C Hy + x + 4 y O2 → xCO + H O 2
        We have measured both the increase in CO2 and the decrease in O2 in the atmosphere due to digging up and burning millions of years worth of sequestered carbon compounds.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:27am
      - treadingthemill
        
        Some other NATURAL process?
        
        Such as?
        
        Of course governments won’t go look there
        
        Scientists do the research.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:29am
      - cmm
        
        I am not arguing that we could be causing trouble via burning coal or burning oil.
        
        All I am arguing is that the carbon-cycle related to the farting and burping of farm animals is all NATURAL processes and is thus not an issue.
        
        Perhaps ping the farmers for burning diesel in their machines and for NOx emissions, but it is bullshit pinging them for methane and CO2 from cows and sheep.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:29am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        The correct stoichiometry for complete combustion of hydrocarbons is:
        
        CnH(2n+2) + 0.5(3n + 1) O2 → (n + 1) H2O + n CO2 + energy
        
        I was unaware that the complete combustion of hydrocarbons produced Carbon monoxide (CO) and the Perhydroxyl radical (HO2).
        
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        October 31, 2017 11:39am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        What caused the little ice age? Why did it end?
        Why did rapid temperature rise start many decades (1850’s) before significant CO2 rise (~WWII)? Why did temperatures not rise significantly until the 1970’s when CO2 rises started decades earlier? What caused the medieval warm period? what caused the roman warm period? what caused the minoan warm period? What caused the rapid 1910-1940 rise and later 1980-2000 rise that then basically halted for 20 years?
        
        The answer at the moment is that nobody knows for sure, yet the IPCC nomenklature asserts that latest warming is mostly anthropogenic, playing down any natural variability. But for anyone with a grounding in empirical sciences it is really fucking suspicious that we are seeing a sequence of 4 warm periods at about 1100 year intervals over the last 3300 years. It is clear that IPCC predictions have no “skill” and their claims of insight are massively overblown.
        
        And for anyone with a grounding in computational fluid dynamics, the claims of usefulness of global climate models in predicting global heat fluxes to within fractions of 1% while modelling the atmosphere with grid cells 100’s of km per side, and absence of capacity to model ocean currents/turnover, wave and storm action clouds and vertical convective effects is so far beyond laughable that it is scary.
        
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        October 31, 2017 12:03pm
      - KevOB
        
        Why did we have a mini ice age a few centuries ago?
        
        It was a solar sunspot phenomenon. We have something similar going on now which has focused attention back on the sun.
        
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        October 31, 2017 1:53pm
      - SPC
        
        KevOB, no we do not have one yet, there is forecast by some to be one starting in the 2030’s.
        
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        October 31, 2017 3:29pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      Number of mammals in nz before 1780
      Two species of bats and one rat
      Neither of which eat grass or bleach methane.
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:40am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Seals? What about aquatic animals and their emissions?
        Belch methane?
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:56am
- PhilBest
  
  Just curious, I think I get why YOU think “William of Ockham” is a clever nom de plume for yourself – so do you believe in God?
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:30am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    yes it is particularly baffling when the IPCC lives the opposite of Ockam’s exhortation “Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem” (Entities should not be needlessly multiplied).
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:54am
- Brito
  
  William, during the Pliocene the sea floor levels were affected tectonically. The considered works of this time look at the ‘sea floor spreading’ process. They, without fail suggest, because that’s all anyone can do (i.e. nobody was there), that during this period the average depth of the worlds seas decreased because of the uplift. If you follow this line of reasoning you’ll find that coastal areas were inundated (drowned).
  
  This increased activity also led to a massive increase in submarine volcanic activity. CO2 levels went through the roof.
  
  An additional point to consider is the worlds biomass. If we just take the bovine biomass (Africa, North and South America) the population has been placed at somewhere between 88 million and 10 billion. If we take the lower end you’ll see that the world estimate in production cows (milk and beef) is 92 million units (cows). Similar to today!
  
  If you suggest that the report from the WMO is unbiased then you are forgetting that the parent agency (the UN) has an agenda.
  
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  October 31, 2017 9:16am
- Peter
  
  I don’t think there is much point in debating the global warming theory.
  
  It should be a scientific debate, but it isn’t.
  
  It’s a political ideology using science as a front. It’s about as honest as the Socialist Party pretending to be Kermit The Frog.
  
  No one will move. The debate has become locked, emotive and pointless – and that is entirely the fault of the left and their demonisation of people who don’t leap to agreement with them.
  
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  October 31, 2017 9:32am
  - Paulus
    
    But look at the hundreds of thousands who make an excellent living from these fanciful theories.
    Whilst they can make money by not working it will continue for them to cast theories.
    
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    October 31, 2017 11:06am
  - KevOB
    
    But fact is the earth has stopped measurable warming and the sunspots have gone. Isotopes like 10Be are also being watched as indicators of the suns interaction with our magnetosphere and cosmic ray modulators.
    High altitude solar particle interaction is believed to be significant in cloud formation.
    
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    October 31, 2017 2:00pm
peterwn

I think the idea of a satellite town at Paerata is a masterstroke by Labour. Labour can do some things not open to National. For example it can chage the Auckland Unitary Plan by legislation which avoids pesky problems with RMA, Environment Court etc. It can also legislate to ‘take’ the land. Paerata will benefit from the extension of an electric train service to Pukekohe and Pukekohe is reasonably close so infrastructure exists nearby to get things going.
No doubt Phil Goff is in the loop and presumably would readily agree to the new legislation virtually in exchange for light rail, fuel tax and other support from central government.
It tends to put National in a bit of a corner since opposing the legislation could look like ‘sour grapes’.
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October 31, 2017 8:02am
- Mildly Bemused
  
  Are you sure it was a masterstroke by Labour? I don’t think they had anything to do with it but are keen to look at it. I don’t think the goof actually knew anything about it until it appeared in the herald.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:08am
  - peterwn
    
    If I was in Phil Twyford’s shoes I would have been looking for some easy of opening up land to build my promised houses but I would not want to say anything about it until after the election. Similarly I would want Phil Goff on side so he would support rather than fight my proposed planning legislation.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:18am
  - PhilBest
    
    I think it says a lot that Infrastructure NZ raised it as soon as Twyford was the Minister. Nick Smith and the rest of the Nats, in practice, seem to have been hell-bent on perpetuating the immigration cram, the infrastructure deficit, and the property-bubble bonanza for their investor mates.
    
    Start honestly confronting the denial, Kiwibloggers.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:36am
    - PhilBest
      
      Furthermore, I am pleased to read that Twyford seems to be very wisely looking to creating any number of opportunities for this kind of development, which is the key to ending the rort and the gouge in land values. He gets it. Nick and the Nats didn’t want to get it. There is no other explanation for the last 9 years. Nick and Phil are like history repeating itself, remember the arrogant self-appointed economics genius Rob Muldoon (who should have been Chavez’ finance minister) and then Roger Douglas coming along?
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:15am
- VicParking
  
  There wont’t be a spade in the ground before National will be back in power.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:11am
  - peterwn
    
    Labour got Rolleston moving when in power in 1972-75, so I see no reason why Paerata cannot be got going in the next few years by special legislation to cut all the usual red tape. Also it is in a ‘blue ribbon’ electorate so locals can wail and gnash their teeth as much as they like without electoral backlash against Labour.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:26am
    - PhilBest
      
      When Labour “does reforms” it dam well gets on with it. Remember Roger Douglas? National, on the other hand – are you kidding me?????? They had 9 years to deal with the Dorkland infrastructure deficit and the housing supply.
      
      But you bet I am an equal-opportunity critic, if Labour doesn’t perform on this, I will criticise them – I was criticising Helen Clark from about 2004 onwards, and eagerly looking forward to the change of government that would undo her malign agenda – too much power for Council Planners, anti smacking assaults on parental authority, logging on the west coast, red tape obstruction for mining and resource extraction, gutting the defence force, the Iwi Mafia, the rainbow agenda, etc etc. Excuse me while I throw up now.
      
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      October 31, 2017 8:41am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        National set up Infrastructure NZ or were instrumental in it, weren’t they? Certainly under their watch, Labour has few ideas of its own but are capitalising on the groundwork already laid.
        
        Good on them, but the credit for? Not.
        
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        October 31, 2017 3:51pm
    - Keeping Stock
      
      Labour may have got Rolleston “moving”, but it was the 2010-11 earthquakes that took Rolleston from a failed experiment to a thriving satellite town. Likewise Pegasus, which was going bust until Mother Nature rocked the Canterbury Plains.
      
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      October 31, 2017 8:43am
      - PhilBest
        
        There’s even more to it than that. It was ChCh Council’s bloodyminded sticking to the urban growth boundary policy, after the earthquakes, and the National team that took over perpetuating the idiocy, that deflected growth to the adjacent “rural” Councils areas. If it was a Super Council this couldn’t have happened and there would be a heinous housing shortage in the entire region.
        
        Also ironically, the growth boundary policy and government intransigence about letting ChCh sprawl from its existing fringe, while it is intended to “keep commuting distances shorter”, the commuters are now merely coming from very much further away.
        
        Of course the planners and watermelons solution to this is regional powers and Super Councils, so they can screw things over more comprehensively with shortages and unaffordability. See Dorkland.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:23am
      - Brito
        
        Rolleston is in the Selwyn District and Pegasus is in the Waimakarari District, Chch City Council can’t extend their city boundary arbitrarily into another authorities district.
        
        Also a commute from Rolleston to Chch back in the day was crippled by carless days after the oil shock. It was doomed to stagnate for years. Pegasus was seen as being too far out. Now with new highway extensions it’s viable.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:44am
      - peterwn
        
        With respect to Paerata, Rolleston is completely beside the point. I perceived Rolleston as being a play thing for the former of Ministry of Works and Development supported by Hugh Watt their Minister (he added ‘and Development’ to the Ministry’s name). It was even the Ministry’s dream to retain control of Rolleston’s town planning.
        Also Paerata has commuter trains (assuming passenger facilities are re-established), Rolleston did and does not.
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:28am
      - PhilBest
        
        Why are trains the deal-breaker when less than 5% of travel will be on them, compared to cars and roads?
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:51am
    - VicParking
      
      Its not the housing thats the problem its the infrastructure. They will need to pipe the wastewater ( Sewerage and stormwater) somewhere and that could take years. Can you imagine the hassle that will be. Even if tgey change the law to override the RMA they will have the maori to deal with.
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:06am
      - PhilBest
        
        I see no reason that Labour needs to remain ideologically wedded to all this watermelon and neo-pagan nonsense. Historically they are the ones who did the suburbs for working class families anyway, time they rediscovered their roots. The Greenie stuff they have co-opted, along with a lot of other PC nonsense, is actually inimical to their historical support base, if only they got real about this.
        
        But you could be right and I would be sorry – because the country would then have NO mainstream political parties with prospects of office, who would do anything about it. The Nats just had 9 years.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:27am
      - PhilBest
        
        And the actual voting Maori need affordable housing and jobs growth, not an upper class on fat salaries swanning around in flash cars, extracting protection money and obstructing all progress.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:29am
      - treadingthemill
        
        I see no reason that Labour needs to remain ideologically wedded to all this watermelon and neo-pagan nonsense.
        
        Because it’s not nonsense.
        
        The Greenie stuff they have co-opted, along with a lot of other PC nonsense, is actually inimical to their historical support base, if only they got real about this.
        
        If you are referring to the working class, they need clean rivers and air, and a livable environment as much as anyone. It’s not inimical to them at all.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:36am
      - peterwn
        
        I have thought of this. There would be sufficient infrastructure to get things started – Pukekohe is not that far away. A reasonable train service exists once a station is built and there will be electric trains in the near future. Counties Power can upgrade existing feeds from Opaheke and Pukekohe to 22kV so power is no problem – similarly fibre optic would already exist.
        IMO intensification near existing railway stations would have been a better option, but there is too much NIMBYism for this.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:38am
      - PhilBest
        
        Treadingthemill; the air, water and everything else have been getting steadily cleaner for decades thanks to technology and capitalism. The opposite belief is based on a pack of lies from watermelon propagandists.
        
        In fact when anyone of any reasonable age is asked about the noticeable trends in their own environment, they admit it has got cleaner. They just think it has got worse “overall”. But nowhere in first world countries, is this true.
        
        “First” world countries that still do a lot of certain types of farming, could lift their game and are doing so, but things have not got worse, they just haven’t improved in that specific area, and it doesn’t affect most people anyway. Everywhere I go swimming has got cleaner in my lifetime.
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:56am
    - flipper
      
      Peterwn…..
      72-75 was different…. And there was no Peters/Ardern Regime.
      Now about those 10,000 “affordable ” Kiwibuilt houses each year ……. for the next 10 years……
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:12am
      - peterwn
        
        They would be built at Paerata.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:39am
    - MH
      
      pro rata the difference.
      
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      October 31, 2017 12:40pm
- wiseowl
  
  Pukekohe.
  Invaluable for its unique soils and ability to grow vegetables.
  What the hell.Just plant houses.More people ,more people, more people, growth ,growth.
  Madness.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:20am
  - waikatogirl
    
    There was a growers’ group person speaking on Q+A saying Pukekohe and other high yield growing areas need to be set aside to prevent building of houses. He said NZ require this high yield land to feed the nation with fresh, healthy vegetables, or else we will be importing fruit and veges from China. I for one prefers NZ veges for dinner.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:35am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      What a load of bollocks. There is vast quantities of land suitable for horticulture in NZ. Pukekohe land is easily replaced.
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:59am
  - PhilBest
    
    So advocate for a rural preservation zone. I am sick to the back teeth of this excuse being rolled out to justify leaving thousands of square kilometers of marginal land outside urban growth boundaries, off limits to development.
    
    In any case, what is the most valuable use of land? Silicon Valley was vineyards once. It is common belief among urban economists in the UK that there urban planning system prevents anything like Silicon Valley from happening there. Well isn’t that a relief, think of the valuable farmland that they have preserved.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:45am
    - lifesgood
      
      You are more stupid than I thought, PB. Not all rural land is equal. Go and have a look at Pukekohe for a change instead of making ill informed comments. The soil there is rich and dark and highly fertile. Perfect vegetable growing soil
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:04am
      - waikatogirl
        
        Sorry Phil, I thought saying “high yield” areas would give the clue that the soil at Pukekohe is ideal for growing veges, “rich dark and fertile” indeed. It is famous for its potatoes and leafy veges. NZ would be poorer for its loss to housing. Same goes for other growing areas in NZ, ie Ohakuni for its carrots, areas of Canterbury for cropping, etc, etc, etc.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:57am
      - PhilBest
        
        Can’t you READ? I said: advocate for a rural preservation ZONE. That is, specify the places where development is not to happen. I am attacking the status quo where development is not allowed to happen anywhere, regardless of how good or marginal the land is. I did not argue that the land was marginal around Puke.
        
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        October 31, 2017 11:09am
    - VicParking
      
      West Auckland was vineyards once too.
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:08am
  - niggly
    
    “Pukekohe – Invaluable for its unique soils and ability to grow vegetables.”
    
    Exactly – so because of that wouldn’t it be better for Labour to have suggested developing north of Auckland (instead of south)?
    
    I mean if Winston wants to develop new rail, highways and a port north of Auckland (in Northland 😉 ), wouldn’t it make sense to develop somewhere in-between to make Winston’s gigantic development costs tie-in with this other major infrastructure development being proposed now?
    
    Plus that way Auckland could eventually get a second International airport servicing both the Auckland and Northland regions!
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:26am
    - PhilBest
      
      Sigh. It is specifying grand think big infrastructure schemes “here, here, and here only” that perpetuates the status quo holdout and gouging powers by land owners.
      
      People who can’t see this don’t understand markets, if they think they are on “the right”, they are on the Muldoonist, nationalist, Statist “right” or the crony capitalist “right”.
      
      If you also advocate compulsorily acquiring all the land, then at least you show you understand the consequences of “leaving the pricing to the market” in combination with substituting top-down rationing for the market in the first place. I would regard that as a second-best solution to allowing development “anywhere except” a few zones where there is something worth preserving.
      
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      October 31, 2017 11:14am
  - peterwn
    
    This is one of the consequences of the RMA and the way related ‘case law’ has developed. The RMA lacks a ‘right to housing’ objective so it is far too easy for proposals to be rejected. Intensification of housing near existing rail routes would be preferable than converting market gardening land around Pukekohe Hill to housing, but NIMBYs living near the tracks do not want intensification. Anyway I thought Paerata area was more farming than market gardening. A satellite town at Paerata would provide for intensification near a commuter railway line without overwhelming objections and adverse political backlash (from Labour’s point of view) from NIMBYs. Ideally get as many people as possible living within 10 minutes walk to the station so they can commute to Pukekohe and Auckland.
    
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    October 31, 2017 10:22am
Inandout

Why is the Clinton Uranium Deal completely ignored by the media while they gun for Trump? Not a mention, not a peep.
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October 31, 2017 8:09am
- VicParking
  
  Its coming. The problem that the MSM gets all its news from the USA from CNN and other left wing news outlets.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:13am
  - softail 1450
    
    VP ,yes our media is far to lazy to actually dig for information ,easier to just get on line and report what Rachael madcow is mouthing, or Anderson pooper,that bastion of unbiased journalism,,,,,,,
    
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    October 31, 2017 11:03am
- oldgolfer
  
  Note also how in all the reports about the charges facing Trump’s campaign men that you have to read down to about paragraph 10 to discover that the charges relate matters BEFORE the election campaign.
  It is this sort of media bullshit that really grinds my gears.
  To the casual reader, the impression is simply that there was collusion.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:32am
  - Ross12
    
    Manafort’s charges relate to tax fraud. Nothing to do with Russia. This is just a distraction for CNN’s use.
    Another special council has to be appointed and Mueller will be caught in the dragnet.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:41am
    - fernglas
      
      The money was from a pro-Russian Ukrainian, and there’s a bit more to it than tax fraud. But I agree, it’s not a silver bullet for the anti-Trump faction. Papadopoulos is more problematic.
      
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      October 31, 2017 8:47am
      - Ross12
        
        The money was from the Ukraine but you are correct fernglas about there being more ( I’ve just read a more extensive report). Money laundering and not registering as a ” foreign agent”.
        The money was for work that started in 2012.
        
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        October 31, 2017 8:52am
      - flipper
        
        You men as a one-meeting volunteer with claimed contacts with Greece, who was never invited back. Lordy…. what a leap.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:30am
    - PhilBest
      
      Reminds me of the Scooter Libby case, which was the Left’s “slam dunk proof” that “Bush lied”.
      
      In fact Libby’s indictment was a travesty of justice anyway; it was his word against a journalist’s word, who told who first about Valerie Plame being a CIA agent, while Richard Armitage (A Clinton holdover in the administration) freely admitted he had told the journalist the day before. On the basis of the journalist’s word, a rottenly partisan prosecution team and jury indicted Libby for “perjury” – and even though the point at question had nothing to do with the mechanisms of an alleged Bush team “cover up”, this was the Left’s “slam dunk”. They do it all the time.
      
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      October 31, 2017 8:49am
    - virtualmark
      
      This won’t be Mueller’s checkmate move, this is just him moving the pawns.
      
      Manafort & Gates seem done to rights on money laundering and tax evasion. Maximum sentence 20 years. Lots of leverage there to cut a deal with, provided they talk.
      
      The FBI has a well established playbook. Turn the little guy (Papadopoulus). Move on to the lieutenants (Manafort, Gates). Then on and on up the ladder etc etc.
      
      Papadopoulus has cut a deal already. Manafort & Gates will likely cut one too, or spend the rest of their lives in the Fed pen.
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:28am
  - Fletch
    
    Big news in that Democrat lobbyist Tony Podesta has been caught up in the inquiry and has stepped down.
    
    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/30/tony-podesta-stepping-down-from-lobbying-giant-amid-mueller-probe-244314
    
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    October 31, 2017 10:37am
  - PhilBest
    
    I long since gave up reading anything in our MSM about developments in US politics – I follow USA based sources I trust.
    
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    October 31, 2017 11:17am
- Gruffydd
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Because its a load of Shite .
  Look into it.
  A committee of 12 from all parts if the usa machine allowed the Russians to purchase a mining firm . Clinton was not even on the committee.
  They still need permission to export the ore.
  The major donation was from an investor who had already sold down his holding in the company.
  
  Mean while the campaign leader for trump has been indited 12 counts including conspiracy against the US,
  Another has pleaded guilty to misleading investigators.
  
  Trump has fallen even further in the rankings.
  losers for trump .
  Who will be the last true believer in the orangutan?
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:43am
  - DifferentPerspective
    
    Not even able to use all 85 now?
    
    Meanwhile, crickets about the evil President who wire-tapped his political opponents?
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:58am
  - Ed Snack
    
    You’re delusional. The Uranium One scandal actually starts a lot earlier as the foundational assets were Kazakastanian Uranium mines that were purloined from the nascent Kazakh State for $100K despite being worth $B. Those assets were laundered through a variety of vehicles with Bill Clinton being involved from an early stage.
    
    Then it really heats up with the final introduction of Russian cash. Clinton’s $500K speech to a Kremlin connected bank, the $145M plus “donated” to the Clinton Foundation. And it’s not just Clinton, the FBI was conducting an investigation into the actions of Rosatom in the USA, where large scale bribery and corruption was detected. That investigation was allowed to lapse and their inside informant gagged. FBI directors involved in this obstruction of Justice, Mueller and Comey. They reported to Lynch and on to Obama. The whole administration was involved with the Clinton’s probably orchestrating the whole thing.
    
    If Mueller has any decency (doubtful, given that these first indictments are outside his remit for his investigation anyway) he must resign and a new special counsel be appointed to investigate the Uranium One scandal in its entirety. Mueller must be investigated for his part and for his transparent attempts at obstructing justice. Hell, even Democrat senators and other legislators are calling for this to be properly investigated and not just sweep under the rug as usual when Democrats are involved.
    
    And you do know don’t you, that we have Collusion with Putin Government officials via the Steele Dossier organised and paid for by the DNC and the Clinton campaign ? It’s in the dossier, government members were paid for the information – that’s collusion right there. And before you try to deflect, Steele was hired AFTER the Washington Beacon, the Republican organisation quit using Fusion GPS, so they’re not involved in that collusion.
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:45am
    - Ross12
      
      This very extensive NYT article gives the details of the Uranium deal
      https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html
      
      The head of the Department of State has a seat on the CIFIUS Committee. To suggest that Clinton did not know what the Dept. head was voting for is absolute nonsense.
      NB. at the bottom of the NYT piece it says that the yellowcake ore is being exported via Canada. A transport company has the licence —I would not call that a very strict control by the USA.
      
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      October 31, 2017 10:25am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Because it’s OK when the Left do it!
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:55am
- backster
  
  For the same reason Global Warming is constantly highlighted while Global Cooling or flooding is virtually ignored.
  
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  October 31, 2017 9:17am
VicParking

Chalk and cheese.
The interviews with Bill English and Andrew Little this morning. Bill was questioned time and time again with questions about chinese spys to trick him into saying something that could be brought back to bite him.
Andrew was given patsy questions and at no time was pressed when he fobbed off the interviewer with Labours “We will look into it, we will set up a group decide this”. As this Pyke River fiasco develops I think Labour are starting to realise its going to become another disaster, if not to miners at least to the Labour party.
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October 31, 2017 8:09am
- KevOB
  
  Specially if they lose some of the Ministers down the mine.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:14am
  - holysheet
    
    How can that be a disaster? We would all rejoice at that event.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:24am
- kowtow
  
  Pike River entry is only to some rock fall, the families and leaders acknowledge that no one will get to the bottom of the mine.
  
  What’s the fucking point?
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:18am
  - Lance
    
    To show that Labour are righteous and the Nats pure evil.
    It is symbolic of their struggle against oppression.
    
    (apologies to Monty Python).
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:25am
  - PhilBest
    
    Can no remote controlled thingy get down there? Genuinely curious, this case means nothing to me other than as a blindingly obvious argument in favour of telling the Gaia-worshiping eco-Taleban to go and eff themselves, and get on with allowing mining to be open cast again like it used to be common practice. No-one would even know an open cast mine existed if there was one in the Paparoa Ranges, if it were not for the Greenie activists committing economic terrorism every time someone tries to get on and do something productive.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:53am
    - Harlequin
      
      Seems there’s already 4 remote controlled thingys down there. If they can’t get back I dont like the chances for any air breathing thingy going in there.
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:14am
      - Flash
        
        Any thingys would be vulnerable down there, it seems.
        They would be wise to say away from Pike River, or, take it by storm.
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:51am
      - Don the Kiwi
        
        Or open it up from the top down.
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:28am
      - PhilBest
        
        Ex-freakin-ZACTLY, Don the Kiwi.
        
        It’s called open-cast mining and it ain’t rocket science. “Not doing it” is almost always now a quasi-religious decision imposed by a de facto theocracy, nothing to do with the Enlightenment, secular values, whatever. So much for being a “secular” country – I strongly object to neo-pagan values being “rammed down my throat”.
        
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        October 31, 2017 11:20am
      - KevOB
        
        I read an article on this mine risk recently. Stresses in tunnels are not uniform and change to concentrate forces closer to an entrance. The engineer had serious concerns that an opening would affect the present state making further collapses occasioned by changing stresses problematical.
        
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        October 31, 2017 2:06pm
      - Lance
        
        The metal robots they sent in years ago…. MELTED!!!!!!
        
        Might be cool enough now.
        
        I know the luddites were poo-pooing the idea of robots on the news last night.
        
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        October 31, 2017 2:29pm
    - RF
      
      Apart from the buggered robots there is at least one large people mover that’s been spun sideways and then a few rock falls causing a massive obstruction.
      
      Just cannot wait to to see the Labour dwarfs holding hands with the head dwarf Peters, skipping up the drift and singing hi ho it’s off to work we go.
      
      For sure Angry will not be there…
      
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      October 31, 2017 11:11am
    - Paulus
      
      Pike are to be told today to stop getting another machine ready for the Mine entry.
      Little is now in charge.
      
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      October 31, 2017 11:14am
  - DifferentPerspective
    
    What’s the point?
    
    Vapid virtue-signalling! Just like a flag referendum. Just like increasing the refugee quota. Just like the gender equity pay settlement. Just like increasing welfare. Just like throwing money at the Maori party.
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:01am
  - lifesgood
    
    The Pike River families demanding re entry are having mental problems. How else to explain their behaviour. They are not being helped by Winnie and Labour pandering to them. What they need is counselling so that they understand their men are dead, they don’t seem to get that.
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:07am
    - RF
      
      My concern is that 29 bodies may be joined by others..
      
      Crazy….
      
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      October 31, 2017 11:14am
    - Paulus
      
      Are the families running out of money – the over $30,000,000 given and donated by many.
      That is over $1,000,000 per family – one family getting double that.
      I want to know where my family donation has gone.
      Can I get a refund ?
      
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      October 31, 2017 11:17am
- oldgolfer
  
  Must have their eye on the bucket of cash Labour ready to pour into RNZ.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:35am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Like him snidely commenting on Tv3 yesterday that the machine to go down the mine, proposed my National, hadn’t been invented yet, of course it hasn’t the ones that have been tried have got stuck ffs.
  
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  October 31, 2017 11:22am
KevOB

“Climate is controlled by natural cycles. Earth is just past the 2003+/- peak of a millennial cycle and the current cooling trend will likely continue until the next Little Ice Age minimum at about 2650.”

When the earlier data has to be lowered to give apparent increases are they doing science or fakery?

The real direction of climate change should be self evident within 10 years.
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October 31, 2017 8:10am
- Gruffydd
  
  What cooling trend?
  The one that had last year as the warmest ever ?
  Or the one that sees this year as the second warmest?
  Do tell.
  
  By the way the result of all those adjustments is to lower the warming trend .
  So again you show you really have no idea.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:47am
  - DifferentPerspective
    
    Have another glass of the KoolAid.
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:03am
    - Gruffydd
      
      ROFL
      United States National Research Council
      
      The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities, but we cannot rule out that some significant part of these changes is also a reflection of natural variability. Human-induced warming and associated sea level rises are expected to continue through the 21st century… The IPCC’s conclusion that most of the observed warming of the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations accurately reflects the current thinking of the scientific community on this issue.
      
      American Association for the Advancement of Science
      
      The scientific evidence is clear: global climate change caused by human activities is occurring now, and it is a growing threat to society….The pace of change and the evidence of harm have increased markedly over the last five years. The time to control greenhouse gas emissions is now
      
      Joint national science academy statements
      
      the national science academies of the G8+5 nations issued a joint statement declaring, “Climate change and sustainable energy supply are crucial challenges for the future of humanity. It is essential that world leaders agree on the emission reductions needed to combat negative consequences of anthropogenic climate change”. The statement references the IPCC’s Fourth Assessment of 2007, and asserts that “climate change is happening even faster than previously estimated; global CO2 emissions since 2000 have been higher than even the highest predictions, Arctic sea ice has been melting at rates much faster than predicted, and the rise in the sea level has become more rapid.” The thirteen signatories were the same national science academies that issued the 2007 and 2008 joint statements.
      
      Yess backward halfwit the “cool aid” is called science.
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:16am
      - treadingthemill
        
        Did you not know Gruffydd? They are all commies, just like our new PM. Commies are everywhere. I should check under my bed in the morning, just in case…
        
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        October 31, 2017 9:25am
      - Brito
        
        Just to point out a few areas where intersecting interests lie.
        
        The National Research Council has two board members on the American Association for the Advancement of Science (bias maybe-directive probably).
        
        Joint National Science Academy Statements – G8+5. The G8 tossed Russia out of this group so they (Russia) have basically carried on with their own agenda (more coal fired stations and massive boost to oil production). The plus 5 group is allowed to continue to pollute because they are developing nations. This particular group isn’t contributing as well as they could do. When they bring the +5 group under the same umbrella of rules they could be taken seriously.
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:02am
      - Gruffydd
        
        Do you want the full list brito?
        Every major scientific body on the planet .
        The one I usually use is about 220 organizations long .
        Face it mate .
        Anti science nutters including you are living in a strange alternative reality where the laws of physics don’t apply.
        We either get with the global program of reducing emissions or we get left behind .
        Fortunately no one in New Zealand politics listens to such stupidity.
        You fucknuckles are gibbering at the moon .
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:21am
      - Brito
        
        Griff – oid! I’ve been nice to you recently because I’m sure you’re a dear wee soul. Now move closer to the fire and wrap that shawl around your knees while you suck on your rusk.
        
        If you can’t debate like an adult and accept that not everybody will agree with your point of view, then rock quietly in your chair, wipe the dribble away from your drooling lips and slowly decompose. You’ll be found in some weeks because a concerned neighbour has phoned the police about the smell. Lonely old man!!!
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:26am
      - PhilBest
        
        The principal officers of organisation can easily be bought and corrupted or coerced, with a result wholly unrepesentative of their membership.
        
        Heck even the IPCC is wholly unrepresentative of the actual contributions by the thousands of scientists. The final “Summary for Policy Makers” is a fabricated travesty from start to finish.
        
        The actual drafting and commenting is meant to be a deep dark secret, in fact the IPCC even moved from New York to Geneva to avoid US “public information” laws forcing them to disclose the whole thing. This really, really sounds like they are fully confident in the claimed “consensus”, huh?
        
        There have been leaked copies though, not that the MSM has ever displayed any curiosity about this.
        
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        October 31, 2017 11:25am
    - SPC
      
      Borrowing from Americans, the cheapest of their sarcasms, lowers the tone even on a blog down under.
      
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      October 31, 2017 3:24pm
  - flipper
    
    Still on the pot eh Griff ?
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:36am
    - Gruffydd
      
      Still talking shite flipper?
      
      3 14
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      October 31, 2017 9:56am
    - SPC
      
      Resorting to attacking those who have another point of view, a sign of an inability to engage in a constructive way?
      
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      October 31, 2017 3:26pm
- PhilBest
  
  Why are you so staunchly “two ticks blue” to a party that are a pack of Vichy jellyfish doormats on this issue?
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:55am
- MrLovebucket
  
  Shame. I’m quite enjoying these warmer summers.
  
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  October 31, 2017 10:30am
kowtow

While this may never happen , it is only proposal to enage with exploration, it displays the rank stupidity of the current gubmint who have a carbon free something or other and of the loons on the DCC who have the same madness.
Also the article is shit as it lists all the benefits but fails to list the loons who are in opposition to any such ventures and who have the power to stop it.

“Otago business leaders and advocates are calling for engagement with New Zealand Oil & Gas about prospects that may spring from exploration for a large gas field offshore from Oamaru.”

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/gas-search-offers-huge-potential

“The climate declaration calls on New Zealand to phase out fossil fuels by 2050, prevent new coal mines and coal-burning plants, and end deep sea oil exploration and fracking.”

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dcc/two-councillors-deride-dcc-zero-carbon-move
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October 31, 2017 8:14am
- JIV
  
  As there is no gas currently available in the South Island, they import large amounts from Taranaki as LPG to fill up their pipeline networks. If they have found a massive gas field off of Oamaru then this is fantastic news for the South Island. As long as the Coalition of Chaos doesnt put the kibosh on it
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:29am
  - RF
    
    Can someone clarify if the gas field off Oamaru will produce gas or oil.
    
    I am listening to talk back and hearing from the greenies about the danger of oil pollution from the black gold if there is a leak. I thought gas was clear and pollution is minor.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:55am
    - VicParking
      
      Its just Gas.
      
      13 0
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      October 31, 2017 9:15am
      - MrLovebucket
        
        Maori Gas
        
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        October 31, 2017 10:59am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      It is assumed to produce both… (as well as gas condensates), but basically it looks like there’s loads of gas there…
      11 trillion cubic feet gas
      1.5 billion barrels liquid – oil & gas condensate
      
      https://www.nzog.com/news/barque-resource-potential-upgraded/
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:27am
    - KevOB
      
      Its the thoughts of organic sources of energy that are toxic.
      
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      October 31, 2017 10:54am
- Maxx
  
  And I see that Megan Woods is seeking advice on the economic and broader environmental impacts – code for I’ll ask Dear Leader what to say first.
  
  I can’t see this going anywhere which is sad considering the economic and environmental benefits that it could have.
  
  Will NZOG have grounds to seek compensation if its stopped? Another one I can see ending up before the courts.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:31am
  - flipper
    
    She will need to secure Winston’s assent.
    All other Peters/Ardern Regime input is irrelevant
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:41am
oldpark

The question for NZ over the next three years of a parliamentary term has to be . Who is the real PM of NZ. Is it the one “selected” by Winston Peters and not “elected” by NZs voters. Has to be Peters as the real PM. Perhaps there is another name for the selector of the present PM.
Would it be Winston “King” Peters,or plain old Winston “Dictator” Peters. The jury is still out on who is the real PM of NZ and would they please please stand up.
Rumour now has it that the Peters PM” select” has been heard listening to the Beatles big song hit.” I want to hold your hand”. Surely only a rumour.
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October 31, 2017 8:15am
- kowtow
  
  To all those who advocate a republic.
  
  After this fiasco how the hell could you trust the political elites to come up with a half decent head of state?
  
  No need to re invent this particular wheel.
  
  God Save the Queen.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:22am
- waikatogirl
  
  Where is Winston??
  AWOL.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:23am
  - VicParking
    
    He is having trouble with his sliver as he can’t count to 30.
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:30am
    - Rich Prick
      
      I read that as having trouble with his liver.
      
      17 0
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      October 31, 2017 8:54am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Instead of silver?
        
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        October 31, 2017 11:32am
  - RalphT
    
    The longer he goes AWOL the better.
    
    11 0
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    October 31, 2017 8:35am
  - Piniwi
    
    Out of sight waikatogirl but still in control. He has now produced a secret document of 38 pages of running instructions. Obviously it has not been understood by many of his Toxic Trio as the babble rolls on.
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:18pm
- flipper
  
  It is the Peters/Ardern Regime. Period.
  Ardern plays the role of PM at his pleasure.
  
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  October 31, 2017 9:43am
  - KevOB
    
    What happens if Winston is revealed to be legally incompetent?
    
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    October 31, 2017 10:56am
Longknives

This Ben Mack character writes some pretty hardcore Activist stuff.
But The Herald must surely be pushing the boundaries with drivel like this-
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11938438

“America is now ruled by an actual white supremacist ”
“The systematic oppression faced by women, LGBT+ people, and everyone not a cisgender white man.”
“The continuing rise of fascism and the far right, including here in Aotearoa”

Jesus Wept! Anyone not a straight White Man is ‘Oppressed’????
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October 31, 2017 8:20am
- Brito
  
  The one that cracks me up is the fact that you are described as having your sex and gender assigned at birth.
  
  Assigned by a Dr, midwife, etc etc after a quick scan of your groin area. “Looks like a girl, so we’ll call her a wee girl”. So, based on this information the parents have to bring this wee person up, strangely enough, as a girl.
  
  According to many, this is when the oppression starts.
  
  There will come a day when the feminisation of the first world will either bring about its rapid decline to obscurity or straight, normal everyday people will claim it back.
  
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  October 31, 2017 10:41am
JasonJohns

lol what a lot of rubbish the MSM is talking over the mueller ‘indictments’…so a senior trump foreign policy adviser met with the russkies and tried to set up some cooperation over the election…is this supposed to be a crime? trump was trying to get help from a strong and righteous russian ruler to defeat a tyrant-in-waiting clinton and keep his people free…of course he was right to work with putin

fake news again…
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October 31, 2017 8:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Do you understand Geography?
  
  The Ukraine is not Russia.
  
  Seems to be quite a bit of confusion in some folks’ minds.
  https://www.rt.com/op-edge/408251-manafort-ukraine-russiagate-dead/
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:27am
Paulus

I hear that Cindy’s mate one Twitford has a super SNAFU with his Kiwibuild.
He has been told by professional in the Industry that is almost impossible to do.
The reason is that there are not enough qualified builders to take on cheap houses, and that there are only nine Teachers in colleges in the country to assist with the initial enthusiasm to set children up to go into the building trade, eg woodworking.
When my children were in college in Wellington they had woodworking lessons which was enjoyed by many – probably no Kapa Haka at the time in college. I still have my daughter’s box.
The teacher was much like having been a retired local builder.
One day he “retired” from college which left them upset.
Why ? – in 2002, under the then government, (I wonder who) he did not have a degree.
The children of course did not know that is why he left.
Go Twitford Go !
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October 31, 2017 8:26am
- VicParking
  
  There are no Technical teachers because of the Teachers unions demanded that they are all qualified as “Teachers”. No tradie is going to go back to teachers college so he can earn $50k when he can get twice that building Twitford’s houses for the unemployable.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:37am
- pdm
  
  Why would kids want to learn to be builders when they can go to University on the taxpayers dollar for three years.
  
  More unintended consequences from a government not even a month old.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:45am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yes, I herd the same in RNZ. Feed the MSM the tipbits, the story will develop & the policy will unravel as an I’ll conceived bit of electioneering. Meaning what’s delivered is way short, and makes for an easy future target.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:48am
- ex-golfer
  
  Twyford has already back-tracked on the 10,000 homes a year sayig they won’t be up to that level until at least 2020.
  His commitment is to 1,000 houses in the next 12 months – which is at the same level as the National Govt was achieving. Of course Twyford was quick to criticise that 1,000 a year was never enough.
  Much harder when in Govt huh Phil?
  
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  October 31, 2017 9:19am
- Flash
  
  Haha. I still have a wooden spoon which my son made at woodwork at intermediate school. It has a certain minimal charm after 40 years.
  He is not a builder.
  
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  October 31, 2017 9:56am
  - hullkiwi
    
    My mother did the same kept the wooden spoon I made) I was intermediate school 45 years ago.
    
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    October 31, 2017 12:08pm
artemisia

Labour’s ‘non partisan’ intern scheme continues to unravel…

As documents from Labour Party officials are released under the Official Information Act.

“In the documents, Mr Kirton estimates Mr MCarten spent more than $100,000 on the intern scheme … Andrew believes that Mr McCarten would not have funded any of the costs himself …”

However Mr McCarten told the Electoral Commission that all costs were covered by him.

As one commenter on the below article said – “If you believe McCarten donated $65k of his own money to this cause I have a bridge to sell you”.

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/new-details-controversial-labour-linked-intern-scheme-jw-209327
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October 31, 2017 8:28am
- RF
  
  McCarten is not the sharpest knife in the drawer and to take this further he is thick as a sack full of hammers so I very much doubt that he would
  have the intelligence to operate the scheme without help.
  
  I understand that the commie chic has instructed her coven that he is persona non grata and she does not want him anywhere near her so I guess that’s his policital asperations down the gurgler.
  
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  October 31, 2017 9:11am
wiseowl

Another win for the UN agenda .
The Timaru Council have succeeded in banning woodburners that are over 15 years old .
At least there was some fightback from some of the councillors but the false claims of people dying from breathing polluted air a few nights a year when they are inside trying to keep warm , triumphs over commonsense and real science.
Deaths from cold will increase.
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October 31, 2017 8:30am
- VicParking
  
  I can see groups of Andern’s poverty childern sitting around a candle trying to keep warm while ‘Pot, plants sit on the unused wood burner.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:43am
tom hunter

So this is pretty cool – MX3D Bridge.

Jorislaarman Lab is a company in Amsterdam that makes 3d metal printing machines that can build objects larger than what is made inside the “box” of a normal 3d printer.

In this case they’re “printing” a metal bridge to span one of Amsterdam’s canals. Looking at the photos the structure looks like it’s from the set of Alien.
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October 31, 2017 8:40am
marcw

Ask them to name one person, just one, who has “died from woodburner lung poisoning” on their death certificate.

They can’t.
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October 31, 2017 8:41am
- waikatogirl
  
  Nothing gives off enough heat required on the coldest nights like a wood burner. Plus you can cook on the top of many if the power goes out. Practical and life saving in the nastiest southerly weather that hits the south regularly during winter.
  
  Short sighted morons. ?
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:54am
  - Longknives
    
    When I was at a small Rural Primary School in the 80s we used to heat our Pies and Sausage Rolls at lunchtime (wrapped in tin foil) on the fantastic little Wood Burner that would be blazing away in the middle of the classroom!
    
    Christ could you imagine the outrage from The Left now? Kids aren’t even allowed pies at School anymore..Not to mention the Wood Burners,Tin Foil etc etc
    
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    October 31, 2017 10:14am
    - Steve (North Shore)
      
      The Teachers will have the tin foil
      
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      October 31, 2017 1:11pm
  - kowtow
    
    Short sighted?
    
    With your own burner and fuel you are self reliant , without it you need the power companies .
    
    The gubmint wants you to depend on them.
    
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    October 31, 2017 11:03am
  - Piniwi
    
    The Fool Factor waikatogirl kicks in again as the heat pump goes quiet in the power cut and everybody starts looking for their camping cooker.
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:27pm
- PhilBest
  
  A few woodburners, these days, shouldn’t be a problem, but it is true that prior to electric heating becoming the norm, even in London in the 1950’s, smog from the prevalent burning of wood and coal in the winter, was responsible for hundreds of deaths each winter.
  
  I don’t know anything about this case, does Timaru get smog sometimes?
  
  But modern wood burners burn cleanly enough that they wouldn’t contribute to such a problem.
  
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  October 31, 2017 9:00am
  - fernglas
    
    The Great Smog of 1952 is said to have killed 4000 and caused respiratory illness in 100,000 others.. My neighbour was in it as a child and recalled going out to the dairy and having to crawl back home because it was so dense.
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:12am
    - fernglas
      
      Indeed, more recent estimates have put the actual death toll at about 12,000
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:18am
    - VicParking
      
      The great fog of 2017 got the three headed Ghidorah lead by a ‘masciare’ into power.
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:21am
    - Longknives
      
      The London Beer Flood of 1815 killed 8 people!
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Beer_Flood
      
      Not really relevant but damned interesting…
      
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      October 31, 2017 10:18am
      - artemisia
        
        Equally OT, the San Francisco treacle flood of 1919 which killed 21.
        
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        October 31, 2017 11:05am
      - artemisia
        
        Oops, treacle flood was Boston. Can’t edit for some reason …
        
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        October 31, 2017 11:07am
      - RalphT
        
        No doubt the toll in the beer flood would have been higher if hundreds hadn’t been stopped from diving in to stop the flood by swallowing it…
        
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        October 31, 2017 11:07am
    - Paulus
      
      Is Winston going with Cinderella to Sydney for Brunch with Turnbull on Sunday ?
      After Church of course.
      
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      October 31, 2017 1:57pm
  - Gruffydd
    
    But modern wood burners
    banning woodburners that are over 15 years old .
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:33am
  - MCos
    
    Timaru is the most polluted city (or whatever it it is these days) in NZ. It must be pretty bad to be worse than some other places I’ve seen around the country. I remember going to work in Chch one winter and being amazed at the smell of the smoke in the air when I came out of the office in the evening. Also the smoke hanging over Upper Hutt on a cold still winter’s night was an eye opener when I was forced to go out there once.
    
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    October 31, 2017 10:01am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Christchurch has a smog problem, the rest of Canterbury is fine. It is due to the port hills blocking the katabatic winds (cold air descending down mountains) that flows down from the southern alps in winter.
      
      Rational approach would be regulating fires in Christchurch, and letting the rest of canterbury do what it likes, but unfortunately there are urban greens involved in the regulatory process, they may have heard of rationality, but have obviously decided they want nothing to do with it.
      
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      October 31, 2017 10:17am
- Nermal
  
  That mythical person must be related to the child that died because poverdy.
  
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  October 31, 2017 10:56am
RF

Ha ha…. wait for it.

Green Peace coming out dead against mining the new gas field off Oamaru and now the greens / labour environment Minister, Sage, is anti gas exploration.

Under a Labour Govt this country will be broke in spite of potential wealth at our finger tips.

Makes you sick thinking about it.

Hopefully some in Labour will wake up to the benefits and then the infighting will start.

This will be a test for communist Cindy.
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October 31, 2017 8:50am
- PhilBest
  
  Remind me about the resource exploitation boom that happened under National for the last 9 years, as they conducted principled political war on all the red tape and eco-religion.
  
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  October 31, 2017 9:03am
  - DifferentPerspective
    
    Oh damn yes, that’s right. There wasn’t any.
    
    Wasted opportunities by ~~National~~ Labour Lite.
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:05am
  - treadingthemill
    
    they conducted principled political war on all the red tape and eco-religion
    
    Thankfully National had better principles than that.
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:18am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    TTR kept plugging away trying to mine westcoast iron-sands…
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/95841246/more-sea-bed-mining-permits-planned-for-north-islands-west-coast
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:37am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    oil prices fell in 2014, and there weren’t (as far as I am aware) any good prospects identified. I think this find/opportunity has arisen from seismic surveying done in 2016.
    
    NZ really needs a big gas find, we only have about 10-15 years left from existing fields, and it takes 5-10 years to develop a field.
    
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    October 31, 2017 10:28am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  No test. non-urban Canterbury doesn’t vote labour, so fuck ’em. Who needs oil revenues when there is virtue signalling to be done, particularly when we can displace the oil production to other countries out of sight of the leafy green suburban labour/green voters.
  
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  October 31, 2017 10:21am
dime

so Hillary takes millions from russia and allows them to buy 20% of the US’ uranium supply..

she then pays people to make up this fake dosier on trump/ Russia..

but Dime sees virtually nithing in NZ media..

then this morning a headline – something about “trump playing the them too ism game” or some shit.

who owns the NZ media? i really dont get what their pay off is. it cant just be the 20 year old girls running the herald/ stuff.

they must have bosses somewhere??

surely they know they would sell more papers/ get more clicks if they went back to the centre?
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October 31, 2017 9:23am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  it cant just be the 20 year old girls running the herald/ stuff.
  
  I have the feeling it’s 20 year-old boys, 30 year-old yoofs, and loads of buggered old men.
  
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  October 31, 2017 9:40am
  - dime
    
    more chicks than dudes.
    
    no way 20 yr old guys are this obsessed with reality tv stars
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:46am
  - JibberJabber
    
    It doesn`t matter what they`re packing between their thighs, they`re all 20 year old girls mentally.
    
    15 1
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    October 31, 2017 10:09am
  - KevOB
    
    Most of us older males have avoided buggery.
    
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    October 31, 2017 2:14pm
- MCos
  
  I don’t know what age or gender you are, dime, but for someone who complains about the state of the NZ media you certainly display an appalling standard of research, spelling, syntax & punctuation.
  
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  October 31, 2017 10:13am
  - kowtow
    
    Over the years I’d guess dime has made huge contributions to syn tax.
    
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    October 31, 2017 11:10am
  - Gabby
    
    dim’s gettin vaginal
    
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    October 31, 2017 4:47pm
fernglas

Jane Kelsey seems to be getting a little testy with Labour for apparently adopting the TPPA holus-bolus. Whatever happened to those thousands of educated and well-informed people who took to the streets a couple of years ago shouting “fuck John Key” and opposing the whole TPPA? Kelsey seems to be in a minority now.
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October 31, 2017 9:24am
- treadingthemill
  
  That suggests that the new government is nowhere near as extreme as some people are claiming.
  
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  October 31, 2017 9:31am
  - dime
    
    fingers crossed.
    
    although it makes sense – globalist govt wanting a globalist treaty
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:47am
  - Flash
    
    Are you inferring it’s National Lite?
    
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    October 31, 2017 10:02am
  - Longknives
    
    “the new government is nowhere near as extreme as some people are claiming.”
    
    Really??
    “Comrades,Comrades,Comrades”
    “Capitalism has Failed” etc etc
    
    I rest my fucking Case…
    
    21 1
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    October 31, 2017 10:21am
    - Digmen1
      
      Just wait til they get going.
      
      More social engineering
      More anti white male legislation
      More refugees
      More bludgers
      More criminals on our streets
      More tax
      More ferals – more breeders
      More union interference
      
      17 1
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      October 31, 2017 11:09am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    The idealism and revolutionary rhetoric is shelved when new govts are confronted with the realities of governing. Politics is the art of the possible.
    
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    October 31, 2017 10:32am
- Peter
  
  It was just political posturing to attack Key.
  
  As if the majority of left voters really give a toss about a tedious trade deal, anymore so than they gave a toss about the China FTA.
  
  The anti-free trade zealots were always a tiny club.
  
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  October 31, 2017 9:47am
- Peter
  
  Many on The Stranded appear to be experiencing cognitive dissonance over TPP.
  
  It’s almost like they actually believed the crap that Labour spouted for nine years.
  
  Bless.
  
  It’s about power for the political class, Comrades. And it’s certainly not about you.
  
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  October 31, 2017 10:24am
dime

House of Cards canceled.
Spacey trying to weasel out of his actions with the old “i was drunk, dont remember.. but im gay now” the implication being – gays cant be touched.

well, equality means ya can

the next season of house of cards would have been shit anyway.
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October 31, 2017 10:04am
- waikatogirl
  
  No wonder Kevin is so light on his feet. ?
  
  Yeah, gave up watching HofC as it became really forced. Watching Netflix political saga “Designated Survivor” instead. Great so far!
  
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  October 31, 2017 10:08am
- Longknives
  
  Hollywood will rally around Spacey and give him their unconditional support..
  But imagine if he had been a Straight White man?
  
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  October 31, 2017 10:27am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    It was a straight white pedophile until being gay became more advantageous.
    
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    October 31, 2017 12:48pm
- Garbageman
  
  Similar to that filth Weinstein after initially being caught out asked for forgiveness and said he was now going to devote his time to attacking Trump, as we know the liberal elite like to forgive their fellow Hollywood pedos and predators problem is it got to big for even that bunch of lowlifes to cover and now the list of high profile names is growing by the day
  
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  October 31, 2017 1:00pm
Jack5

An interesting Stephen Franks blog piece about reaction to the British QC’s call for Britain to re-integrate its Muslims who fought for ISIL:

http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/

Footnote: Kea/realityczech, you dumb-arse parrot, come up with an anti-Jewish bullshit response – if you can. Perhaps Gauleiter EAD will help you.
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October 31, 2017 10:04am
- realityczech
  
  What do you think we should do about the Muslim question ✡ Jacobus ? ✡
  
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  October 31, 2017 12:40pm
Shaun the Sheep

Elderly friend’s driving has caused concern for some time, and finally in a non-injury accident has been the catalyst for driving licence to be voluntarily surrendered (at last).
I’m concerned that the insurance company may not accept the claim since the driving has been dodgy for a while.
Does anyone have experience of this?
Am I worrying needlessly?
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October 31, 2017 10:14am
- waikatogirl
  
  Not a worry if they held a current licence.
  
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  October 31, 2017 12:21pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    Thanks for that. Licence current.
    I had high expectations that the collective wisdom of KB would help. Ta.
    
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    October 31, 2017 1:00pm
Captain Mainwaring

https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/98390930/dozens-of-octopuses-crawl-to-shore

The idiot of Ockham will have a theory on this.
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October 31, 2017 10:31am
Fletch

As I mentioned above, huge Democrat lobbyist Tony Podesta has been caught up in the Mueller probe and is stepping down from his own firm.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/30/tony-podesta-stepping-down-from-lobbying-giant-amid-mueller-probe-244314
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October 31, 2017 10:43am
Fletch

As well as the Kevin Spacey bombshell from yesterday, now Neil deGrasse Tyson has been accused of rape by a woman who was a grad student with him in 1984.

https://twitter.com/tchiya/status/691842471467302913

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/10/30/woman-accuses-neil-degrasse-tyson-of-rape-while-she-was-a-grad-student/

Rather than there being a “rape crisis” on campus which the left has exaggerated, there is a rape crisis in Hollywood and the entertainment industry.
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October 31, 2017 10:50am
- PhilBest
  
  Of course to progressives, this is just “liberation” from Victorian era prudishness. Any woman who wanted to “preserve her honour” was automatically a suspect Conservative, which is worse than being a predator, in those circles!
  
  Matt Walsh makes a good comparison of Hugh Hefner’s circles and Harvey Weinstein’s and asks what is really the difference?
  
  http://www.dailywire.com/news/22315/walsh-please-dont-act-shocked-and-appalled-harvey-matt-walsh
  
  “…We seem to have a very confused notion of sexual morality. Mostly because we have no notion of it. We’re making it up as we go along. One minute we’re calling a creepy 90-year-old man a hero because he coerced a bunch of girls to get naked for him, the next we’re crucifying a creepy 65-year-old man because he did something quite similar.
  
  These kinds of glaring inconsistencies are par for the course in our culture. We celebrate the porn industry even as we decry the sex trafficking that fuels it. We mock Mike Pence for respecting boundaries even as we panic over the sexual harassment that Pence’s policy is meant to avoid. We encourage guys and girls in college to get together for booze-fueled coed parties even as we wring our hands over the supposed “rape epidemic” these parties cause. None of this makes any sense at all…”
  
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  October 31, 2017 11:42am
  - treadingthemill
    
    I don’t see the link between a more humane and liberal approach to sexual issues and supporting porn, rape or sexual abuse. Such things happened in Victorian society as well, except the victims rarely had recourse to justice, unless they were rich, and sometimes not even then. In this respect, things are much better than in Victorian times. The problem with Hollywood has more to do with power and money than a rejection of Victorian or Christian morals. Men, and it is mostly men, with power and money have abused that power with regards to women throughout history.
    
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    October 31, 2017 12:19pm
    - PhilBest
      
      Interesting point you make. But the difference is that powerful men in more conservative times had no ideological escape clauses, they were hypocrites and knew it. But Hollywood and progressives have the “its all just free love anyway” excuse, their whole revolution is that copulation is nothing to do with making families, which is an oppressive construct that should be defied in daily practice. Plenty of girls have abandoned themselves to this post-1960’s social norm; how do we tell when they really were “non consenting”, versus just gold-digging now?
      
      Weinstein et al may well adopt a defense tactic of scrutinising the virtue of the women concerned. If any of them had a long track record of consensual casual hook-ups, pity help them.
      
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      October 31, 2017 4:50pm
Manolo

Money he had (by the truckload):
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/30/paul-manafort-clothing-expenses-244326

Paul Manafort spent more than $1.3 million on clothing alone as part of the “lavish lifestyle” described in the indictment brought against him Monday by special counsel Robert Mueller.
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October 31, 2017 10:51am
- Paulus
  
  I believe that the whole Manafort affair for which charges are made was around 2005 many years before Trump decided to run for the Republican Party.
  Cannot exactly see how Trump is involved – except in the eyes of the Washington Post, the New York Times, CNN and their baby here the Auckland Herald.
  
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  October 31, 2017 2:05pm
dime

Family Guy alluding to Kevin Spacey being a scumbag back in 05

https://www.facebook.com/MikeCernovich/videos/1347157535413295/
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October 31, 2017 11:02am
- Longknives
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeF__kxRlwE
  
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  October 31, 2017 11:23am
Tauhei Notts

Lovely chat with a 94 year old Korean war veteran yesterday. For 40+ years he was the family’s accountant. He was complaining about the price of tobacco for his pipe.
“It’s about $100 per month!”
“But smoking is bad for your health” I replied.
His reply was priceless;
“I lost count about 20 years ago of the number of funerals I have attended of people who had told me that.”
I think the smoking has affected his hearing. I had to raise my voice to make myself heard. It hasn’t affected his mind. It is still as sharp as a tack.
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October 31, 2017 11:02am
- PhilBest
  
  Surely one day medical science has to come up with an explanation about why some people are more or less vulnerable to some exposure.
  
  Some people seem immune to breathing in smoke, some other people are allergic to common substances like chemical cleaners. The fact that “I am OK” doesn’t mean everyone will be.
  
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  October 31, 2017 11:46am
- david
  
  As a K Force vet he was probably a “gunner”. Being in the Artillery generally resulted in industrial deafness in those days.
  
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  October 31, 2017 1:49pm
Hugh Pavletich

NEW ZEALANDS NEW HOUSING MINISTER PHIL TWYFORD STARTS ON SORTING THE HOUSING CRISIS …

New Zealand new Housing Minister Phil Twyford spells it out clearly to Ashley Church of the Property (Valuers) Institute …

Kiwibuild housing plan should be led by private sector says Property Institute … TVNZ

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/kiwibuild-housing-plan-should-led-private-sector-says-property-institute

… extract …

… Another idea is to create satellite cities in places like Paerata, south of Auckland.

Mr Twyford said it would take a few years to get that up and running but he’s interested in 10 to 15 large new urban development projects around Auckland and “most of those you’d want in the city in places like Henderson and Manukau” … VIEW & READ more via hyperlink above …
.
.
… with the abolition of Auckland’s urban limits and bond financing of infrastructure nationally on the horizon as well …

Housing – New Zealand Labour Party

http://www.labour.org.nz/housing

… extract …

Remove barriers that are stopping Auckland growing up and out

Labour will remove the Auckland urban growth boundary and free up density controls. This will give Auckland more options to grow, as well as stopping landbankers profiteering and holding up development. New developments, both in Auckland and the rest of New Zealand, will be funded through innovative infrastructure bonds.
.
.
The development and construction sectors will respond rapidly … allowing the government to meet its housing aspirations.

Robertson asks to be judged on how Labour govt lifts productivity; Says foreign investment still welcome, just not in existing houses; Is ‘realistic’ about RBNZ’s ability to effect full employment | interest.co.nz

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/90604/robertson-asks-be-judged-how-labour-govt-lifts-productivity-says-foreign-investment-still

Welcome to the real world Mr Church !
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October 31, 2017 11:19am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  New dwelling consents dropped 12.5% nationwide last month and slumped 26.7% in Auckland | interest.co.nz
  
  https://www.interest.co.nz/property/90625/new-dwelling-consents-dropped-125-nationwide-last-month-and-slumped-267-auckland
  
  Statistics NZ is reporting a big drop in the number of new homes consented during September.
  
  Building consents were issued for 2770 new dwellings, down 12.5% from the 3166 issued in August, but up 6% on September last year.
  
  The month-on-month decline was even greater in Auckland, with consents for just 868 new dwellings issued in September, down 26.7% from August.
  
  There was also a big decline in the Waikato, where consents for 293 homes were issued in September, down 17.7% compared to August.
  
  New dwelling consents have also fallen in Canterbury for the last two months, but remained above where they were in September last year. … read more via hyperlink above …
  
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  October 31, 2017 11:46am
  - Digmen1
    
    OK, so you posted some info.
    
    Have you any comments on it.
    
    What is your point or angle?
    
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    October 31, 2017 12:07pm
    - Hugh Pavletich
      
      Get Labours housing policies implemented as soon as possible … with an immediate focus on abolishing Aucklands urban limits and getting bond financing of infrastructure in place.
      
      Just ALLOW new affordable housing to be built.
      
      That’s all.
      
      13 years of ‘talk’ is more than enough.
      
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      October 31, 2017 12:25pm
      - Paulus
        
        No builders of cheap called affordable housing -twerp.
        Our wages are too high to get cheap anything especially houses, and with coming up the highest $20 minimum wage by world standards, and corresponding levels lift all round, ain’t never going to be.
        
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        October 31, 2017 2:09pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Cabinet set to discuss mechanisms for foreign house buyer ban, Ardern says; Parker hits out at previous National government over advice on ability to impose stamp duty on foreigners under Korean FTA … Interest Co NZ
        
        https://www.interest.co.nz/property/90630/cabinet-set-discuss-mechanisms-foreign-house-buyer-ban-ardern-says-parker-hits-out
        
        By Alex Tarrant
        
        The new Labour-led Cabinet is today (Tuesday) set to discuss a series of proposals to ban non-resident foreign house buyers. But questions continue to swirl around the government’s ability to impose any policy prescription in line with New Zealand’s free trade agreements (FTAs). … read more via hyperlink above …
        
        Doubts about foreign buyer ban | Otago Daily Times Online News
        
        https://www.odt.co.nz/news/election-2017/doubts-about-foreign-buyer-ban
        
        The Labour-led Government’s move to restrict foreign speculators from taking a chunk out of the property market is being questioned given a similar policy across the Tasman has done little to curb prices in Australia. … read more via hyperlink above …
        
        ‘Not enough beds to sleep on’ … Radio NZ
        
        http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018619840/not-enough-beds-to-sleep-on
        
        Southland is seeing a tourism boost, partly because of Airbnb, but it is also driving up a need for workers and the temporary rental service is leaving them nowhere to live. … read more via hyperlink above …
        
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        October 31, 2017 2:41pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        New government to amend Overseas Investment Act to classify residential housing as ‘sensitive’ to block non-residents and non-citizens from buying existing residential dwellings | interest.co.nz
        
        https://www.interest.co.nz/news/90636/new-government-amend-overseas-investment-act-classify-residential-housing-sensitive-block
        
        By Alex Tarrant
        
        The Labour-led government says it’s found a way to block non-resident foreigners from buying existing houses which will not clash with the vast majority of New Zealand’s free trade agreements … read more via hyperlionk above …
        
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        October 31, 2017 4:59pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        FROM AUSTRALIA … HOT OFF THE PRESS …
        
        New home sales fall 6pc in September … The Australian
        
        http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/property/new-home-sales-fall-6pc-in-september/news-story/2cf258d63372caca8b9ea9082a25a25a
        
        The number of new home sales dropped last month as the residential building boom continues to ease, with apartments the hardest hit.
        
        New home sales fell 6.1 per cent in September, compared to the previous month, according to the Housing Industry Association’s New Home Sales Report.
        
        The number of new homes sold slipped below 6000 in the month, marking a gradual decline from a rate of more than 8000 new sales a month in early 2015. … read more via hyperlink above …
        
        Sales of new homes still on the slide … Sydney Morning Herald
        
        http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/sales-of-new-homes-still-on-the-slide-20171031-gzbq3q.html
        
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        October 31, 2017 5:19pm
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    Rise of the robot brickie: Automation could wipe out 600,000 construction jobs by 2040 … UK Telegraph (behind paywall)
    
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/30/rise-robot-brickie-automation-could-wipe-600000-construction/
    
    Almost one in three construction jobs could be eliminated over the next two decades as advances in robotics and digital technology mean human builders are replaced.
    
    New research from Mace predicts 600,000 of the current 2.2m positions in the industry could be automated by 2040 as the “Fourth Industrial Revolution” turns the sector on its head.
    
    One of the hardest-hit jobs in the industry is forecast to be bricklaying, with the current 73,000 people doing the job on UK building sites expected to tumble to just 4,300.
    
    By 2040 there will be just 15,500 carpenters and internal fitters, down from 263,000 now, and the number of labourers will plummet from 127,000 to 7,500. Painters and decorators will also be driven out with just 6,500 positions expected in two decades, compared with the current 111,000 roles, according to the study’s forecasts. … read more via hyperlink above … (behind paywall) …
    
    About Us | Mace
    
    https://www.macegroup.com/about-us
    
    Mace (construction company) – Wikipedia
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(construction_company)
    
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    October 31, 2017 8:14pm
    - Hugh Pavletich
      
      Hello Hugh Pavletich,
      Arrow2 replied to your comment on Macro Afternoon:
      
      And an Australian company is at the forefront – imagine – actual Australian innovation! Pretty cool (unless you’re a brickie). https://www.fbr.com.au
      
      Go to it or reply: https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/10/macro-afternoon-294/#comment-2989715
      
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      October 31, 2017 9:57pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Twitford to the rescue eh?
  Let’s see how well that works out.
  
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  October 31, 2017 1:34pm
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    THANKFULLY WE ARE RID OF THE TIRED TORIES ! …
    
    Captain Mainwaring … Sadly it didn’t these past 9 years with New Zealand’s political eunuchs … The National Party.
    
    The shame of it all is there at my archival website PERFORMANCE URBAN PLANNING http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org … in particular …
    
    1. VIDEO John Key – Housing Reform – 2007
    2. The 5 Important Graphs
    3. GONE GONE GOING section … which is now properly the GOBE GONE GONE section
    
    It appears David Lloyd George was right … re quoted by John F Kennedy …
    
    http://www.azquotes.com/quote/1363193
    
    A tired nation, said David Lloyd George, is a Tory nation, and the United States today cannot afford to be either tired or Tory.
    
    John F. Kennedy
    
    https://www.google.co.nz/search?source=hp&ei=9Nf3WdWYDMW70ASQyqXYAQ&q=tired+tory&oq=tired+tory&gs_l=psy-ab.12..33i160k1.5878.10720.0.14412.12.11.0.0.0.0.496.2303.3-3j3.7.0….0…1.1.64.psy-ab..5.6.2300.0..0j0i131k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1.273.OpxFZywhM-c
    
    … and this from Allister Heath, former Deputy Editor of the UK Telegraph …
    
    The real ticking time bomb for the Tories is home ownership … Allister Heath … UK Telegraph
    
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/11917816/The-real-ticking-time-bomb-for-the-Tories-is-home-ownership.html
    
    … extract …
    
    Remarkably, 354,700 new homes were built in France last year, compared with 140,880 across the UK, a pathetically inadequate number barely half of that required. The French were actually bitterly disappointed with their own performance: their recent average has been around 400,000 homes a year.
    
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    October 31, 2017 3:09pm
  - sooty
    
    Maybe we could import som aussie houses, to keep up Twitford numbers!
    
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    October 31, 2017 6:19pm
Fletch

The third of a three-part series by a writer on Brietbart about tinseltown, where he has lived and worked for many years among the celebrities.

In this third installment he partly goes into the reasons for the decline at the box office and also details how the Right are fighting back. Particularly entertaining is the account of how the 4Chan bloggers located Shia LaBeouf’s Trump protest flag (which he had up 24/7 on his Vlog) using aircraft contrails they saw in the video feed.

They tracked down the flag and removed it 😆

http://www.breitbart.com/tinseltown/3/

It’s quite a long read, but there is an audio version at the top of the page you can listen to.
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October 31, 2017 11:33am
- PhilBest
  
  I read that last night and thoroughly enjoyed it, it would be nice to put up a link to it, near the top of a GD thread.
  
  The thing that impresses me is the practical fight-back from the conservative right in the USA. We don’t have anything like it here. Western Civ might end up being preserved only in the USA (maybe minus its coastal States).
  
  That article makes a great point about “deplorable” (actually the majority) audiences and consumers of entertainment, simply giving it a miss when the celebrities involved are mouthy SJW’s. And finding other sources of amusement. There are major opportunities for alternative avenues of entertainment that are not dominated by Political Correctness.
  
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  October 31, 2017 11:54am
Longknives

Adam Sandler is next to be crucified by Hollywood by the look of things-

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/98388664/adam-sandler-criticised-for-being-touchyfeely-with-claire-foy-on-norton-show

Sandler being a straight,white male means this storm in a teacup will gain way more traction than the Kevin ‘But I’m a Gay Man so I’m exempt’ Spacey thing..
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October 31, 2017 11:35am
- Bob R
  
  Nah, Spacey is getting hammered from all sides. He’s outraged the LGTQ community too for linking them with under-age predation.
  
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  October 31, 2017 11:45am
sooty

Whens Twitford inviting you in for a conversation, there Hugh?
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October 31, 2017 11:46am
- PhilBest
  
  Why wouldn’t Twyford be listening to Hugh? The people who haven’t listened to Hugh are the ones responsible for a house price median multiple of 10 in Dorkland, and for the carnage that the eventual crash will cause. This is a peculiar values system.
  
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  October 31, 2017 11:57am
  - Nostradamus
    
    PhilBest:
    
    The people who haven’t listened to Hugh
    
    Hugh has the same issue as Penny: a perception issue. The issue is self-inflicted. Hugh has a tendency to copy-and-paste the same material over and over. He has a tendency to rattle off talking points instead of engaging with commentators. And, to round things off, he often mentions his Demographia survey and links to his own blog (which evokes memories of Philu).
    
    You, by contrast, provide new material and actually engage with commentators. So I read your comments with interest.
    
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    October 31, 2017 3:58pm
    - Kimbo
      
      Really? Based on what I’ve seen I’ve found Philbest a bit of a hit-and-run merchant, personally.
      
      Am still waiting to hear an answer from him to my repeated question why National should imitate Brash’s 2004-05 strategy of “go right!”, when Brash’s National got less votes than Labour in 2005, whereas English’s 2017 tally was more than Labour and the Greens combined! But then when it suits Philbest it’s not about winning elections, but “winning the argument”. So we were told by Philbest on the weekend that
      
      I personally am not talking blindly about ideology; my beef is with leadership and their willingness (or otherwise) to use evidence and reason to win arguments and to persuade
      
      …which is fair enough, he’s allowed his point of view (although the lack of any doubt that Philbest’s views are anything less than self-evident truth is amusing given he is not blindly ideological!), but then, according to Philbest:
      
      The Left’s arguments on virtually everything, are a pack of lies and it should be a simple job to beat them with the truth.
      
      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/10/zach_castles_on_defending_capitalism.html
      
      And there you have it! The classic libertarian fallacy, like the Marxists, concerning human nature, that we are primarily truth-seeking cerebral individuals in need of the right input or information to ensure correct programming and resulting action. Hah! Occasionally, in our better moments, but people believe, embrace and defend all manner of lies ever day of their life. 😉
      
      A “simple job”?! Typical ideologue, oblivious to his own ideology as well as that messy unpredictable thing, human nature. Sure, Philbest can pick it in ideologues from the opposite end of the spectrum/same side of the coin…but any parent raising a child will soon tell you, persuading human nature to accept what is “true”, let alone convincing them your version of it is the real thing…is anything but “simple”. 😉
      
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      October 31, 2017 4:16pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Kimbo:
        
        Yes, I’ve noted that you’ve had some incomplete discussions with PhilBest on political matters. Speaking for myself, left-right tribalism often plays out on Kiwiblog, but it generally leads to “agree to disagree” positions – with various degrees of impoliteness. So you’re probably going to be largely dissatisfied when you engage with people – whether it’s PhilBest or Penny – on left-right tribal matters.
        
        But, again speaking for myself, PhilBest has some interesting things to say about city development. I don’t know whether I agree with everything he says, but at least it’s an opportunity to read something different.
        
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        October 31, 2017 4:30pm
      - Kimbo
        
        I don’t know whether I agree with everything he says, but at least it’s an opportunity to read something different.
        
        Different? Um, well, let’s just say if we all had a dollar every time Philbest dropped/trolled the word “Vichy” into the conversation we’d be doing well enough to buy lots of property in Herne Bay! 😉
        
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        October 31, 2017 4:35pm
      - PhilBest
        
        “… persuading human nature to accept what is “true”, let alone convincing them your version of it is the real thing…is anything but “simple”…
        
        So let’s not even try, regardless of the embarrassment du riches of evidence?
        
        What you are saying is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The principled politicians of the right, like Don Brash and ACT, are now on 1% support because the representatives of the mainstream “right” have “thrown” the game, and nobody even hears the truth being defended on crucial issues any more.
        
        I have suggested you come up with a better term than “Vichy” if you don’t like me using it. What better parallel for National running NZ pretty much according to the entire Helen Clark agenda, all the while in denial about any loss of a “long war”? And even joining the enemy’s campaign of demonisation and marginalisation of anyone of principle? Again, what better parallel than Vichy’s condemnation of the evil and unpatriotic General DeGaulle?
        
        And are you expecting me to keep looking, possibly in perpetuity, at stale threads with 300 comments from yesterday/last week/last year on them, just to “answer Kimbo’s last demand” concerning XYZ point?
        
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        October 31, 2017 5:04pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ PhilBest
        
        “… persuading human nature to accept what is “true”, let alone convincing them your version of it is the real thing…is anything but “simple”…
        
        So let’s not even try, regardless of the embarrassment du riches of evidence?
        
        Uh, uh. No bait-and-with this time, Philbest. How about, before we unpack the rest of your latest post, you first back up and acknowledge that non sequitur. After all, I’m not the one who insisted it is (to quote you again) “a simple job” to persuade people with the (alleged) truth…
        
        So let’s see if you can be persuaded by (to quote you again) “evidence” and “reason” concerning the (to quote you again) “lies” in your own rhetoric… 😉
        
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        October 31, 2017 5:12pm
      - PhilBest
        
        Every time I raise a specific point, you ignore it for a whole lot more ideological waffle! What non sequiteur? Oh, “truth” is subjective anyway, there are always two “versions”. Fine, lets hear two all the time. What I am complaining about is everyone now not hearing two, and only hearing one, from both the traditional progressives, and now from the “centre right” turncoats. So of course they might assume that there isn’t even another version or argument at all!
        
        But I am not falling for that relativist crap either; the facts are the facts, and one side’s so called facts on many polarised issues, have to be lies and easily proven so.
        
        Let’s return to an obvious example, which is always what I prefer to waffly ideology: Kiwibloggers overwhelmingly accept that CAGW is a scam, and downtick WofOckham – so why then do many of the same Kiwibloggers think it acceptable for National to just throw the debate on the subject? And even abuse decent scientists as “deniers” and refuse to even grant them an audience, they are so anxious to establish their “just as virtuous as thou” credentials to the progressive establishment. Same thing as joining in the SJW chorus of “racist” against anyone (eg Don Brash) who now merely says exactly what David Lange said in 2002 on The Treaty, and what Sir Apirana Ngata said in the 1930’s.
        
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        October 31, 2017 5:40pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Philbest
        
        No I don’t think you so much introduce points and facts as factoids, special pleading and gratuitous rhetorical framing as self evident truth, and that you can’t recognise it in yourself confirms you are an ideologogical in the first instance.
        
        Also if one acknowledges it is often very difficult (i.e. not “easy”) to persuade others of the truth, it does not logically follow (to quote you) “So let’s not even try”. Instead that cavalier dismissal of the critique of your assumption is itself an illogical non sequential called a non sequitur.
        
        Which rather proves the point that your facile demand that it is easy to use reason and evidence to persuade others is often more difficult. Indeed much so in the case of those who are convinced they are right. Especially When it is manifested in wilful ignorance, a lack of self-examination, and over familiarity with those supposed truths that others don’t agree with you are self evident.
        
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        October 31, 2017 6:09pm
      - treadingthemill
        
        @ Philbest
        
        The principled politicians of the right, like Don Brash and ACT, are now on 1% support because the representatives of the mainstream “right” have “thrown” the game, and nobody even hears the truth being defended on crucial issues any more.
        
        No, I don’t think that is the case. The politicians on the hard right are on 1% or less because they have been relegated there by the voters. Their arguments have been heard, and rejected.
        
        What better parallel for National running NZ pretty much according to the entire Helen Clark agenda, all the while in denial about any loss of a “long war”?
        
        If you think of politics as a war then that will frame how you perceive issues and ideas. So to you National are “Vichy” but to me, and perhaps Kimbo and others, they are centre-right in the context of New Zealand political history, because we don’t frame politics as a war. In this Kimbo is right, you are very similar to the hard left Marxists I observed at the Standard. And like them, life must be very stressful when your perpetually disappointed that most people don’t, and will likely never, see things your way. Not in New Zealand anyway, as we have a culture that usually rejects the extremes of right and left.
        
        But I am not falling for that relativist crap either
        
        Reality is shades of grey, never black and white.
        
        the facts are the facts, and one side’s so called facts on many polarised issues, have to be lies and easily proven so.
        
        That is only true of you assume that truth lies at one of the extremes of the pole. But truth lies betwixt the horns.
        
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        October 31, 2017 6:37pm
    - Kimbo
      
      Having said that, Philbest’s property posts are indeed stimulating, albeit repetitive. And it’s never yet been explained to me, again, despite repeated requests, how I could be a “Vichy” traitor/compromiser…when I’veI never subscribed to Philbest’s views in the first place. 😉
      
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      October 31, 2017 4:22pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        One dimensional kimbo.
        Its all about a libertarian nirvana of no government.
        Phill ignores the massive increase in population in driving demand .
        He reminds me of redtwit
        Smart but missing to many pieces to have a coherent world view.
        His social conservationism would never fly in this country . Every time it has been tried here it collapse under the weight of hypocrisy implicit in the standpoint.
        
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        October 31, 2017 5:02pm
      - Kimbo
        
        I agree to the extent that…Philbest’s primary beef seems seems to be with the results of democracy in NZ, and the inability and/or unwillingness of any suitable politicians to persuade his fellow-citizens to his point-of-view.
        
        Well…yes! 😉 One often finds that with democracy, where no one is entirely satisfied! Often much so! “Democracy – the worst system..besides all the others”.
        
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        October 31, 2017 5:08pm
      - PhilBest
        
        So, Kimbo, you always believed, for example, the Waitangi Tribunal version of colonial history? This is a remarkable feat, because this version wasn’t invented for most of your lifetime, and virtually no-one anywhere on the political spectrum would have had any difficulty with the established truth (which Sir Apirana Ngata’s book would exemplify). David Lange’s stated position right up to his death, would satisfy me perfectly well as “principles worth defending” by National.
        
        Or perhaps what you mean is that you never believed in sticking to principled, evidence-based arguments in the face of an ideological-based progressive movement that was sufficiently well-organised to drive all before it?
        
        I am not defending any broad ideologies apart from pointing out the outcomes in practice, or pointing out the facts and evidence.
        
        As for Gruffydd, he nicely misrepresents my position. I have frequently discussed population growth and how it demonstrably should be catered for and turned into a win-win situation. And he accuses me of “ignoring population growth”. Not for the first time, I reiterate that I am in favour of high population growth, as long as the immigrants are of high quality (and most of NZ’s are) along with properly catering for it in the form of financing infrastructure properly.
        
        Nor am I a minimal-government libertarian; I merely want government to perform the roles it is meant to perform, properly – rather than perform those roles incompetently and venally, at the same time as adding layer upon layer of policy that is actually trying to compensate for the harm already done by government, like the fable of “The King, the Mice and the Cheese”.
        
        For example, the first role of “urban planning” should be designating corridors that will be protected from development in view of future growth. But the planners never do this, they spend all their time prescriptively strangling the economy that is already there.
        
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        October 31, 2017 5:23pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Philbest
        
        Nor am I a minimal-government libertarian; I merely want government to perform the roles it is meant to perform, properly
        
        As do we all! But then your statement is so broad anyone from a hardcore Marxist to a hard-core libertarian would agree! So it is meaningless, hence my and your fellow citizens disagree – and are all to some extent or another perpetually disappointed – by the specific workings of democracy when it comes to issues like the Waitangi Tribunal or urban planning, or…whatever. 😉
        
        Which makes your jumping forth between supposed principles and allegedly self-evident specifics, one to buttress the other, while failing to substantiate either on its own terms…amusing, especially from one who castigates others as liars, moral and intellectual cowards, or soft-headed. 😉
        
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        October 31, 2017 5:31pm
      - PhilBest
        
        “…failing to substantiate either on its own terms…”
        
        Bullshit. KB followers will know I have made long evidence-based arguments again and again on a wide range of subjects.
        
        And you’re just part of the problem when you let one side get away with obvious falsehoods because after all, their opponents have motives and an ideology too….! But have you noticed that I won’t defend any side when their position is indefensible? How many KB contributors will stick up for both Don Brash and Phil Twyford?
        
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        October 31, 2017 5:51pm
      - Kimbo
        
        No, I didn’t say you don’t introduce (sometimes relevant, sometimes specious) facts. What I said was that if and when you are struggling with facts you jump to supposed principles, but if are cornered in principles you jump back to supposed facts…rather than digging down, staying in topic and actually demonstrating what you say is true either in fact or principle. Just look at your posts! I’ve seldom seen so much undisciplined flitting and assumptions of what others believe. Such as what you thought I meant about your obvious non sequitur.
        
        Anyway, gotta go. I’m sure our paths will cross again! ?
        
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        October 31, 2017 6:25pm
waikatogirl

Just been talking with another unhappy employer, a landscaper who can’t get staff. “Had a young Maori chap working for him a month. He’s had 4 sick days in that time and has now thrown in the job”. Big part of job done by bobcat by the boss, so it was too much effort for this yoof to swing a rake. I said, it’s only going to get worse under this government. He agreed, and said “I didn’t vote for them”. That makes 2 of us I said.
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October 31, 2017 12:00pm
- Gruffydd
  
  yes can not get peploe to work for him because he pays minimum wage.
  I have spent years landscaping .
  Pushing a rake all day keeping up with a bobcat is bloody hard physical work .
  Why would he bother doing hard work if he can get a job in mcd’s for the same rate or go drive a truck for better ?
  I pay good labour well better than 20 bucks an hour. I have never had a problem getting willing workers when you pay and treat them well.
  
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  October 31, 2017 12:15pm
  - realityczech
    
    “I pay good labour well better than 20 bucks an hour. I have never had a problem getting willing workers when you pay and treat them well.”
    
    Good on ya Griffy. It is not people like you we need all those laws for.
    
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    October 31, 2017 12:20pm
  - Jack5
    
    Yes, good on you Griff.
    
    Hell, I’m agreeing with Griff and realityczech!
    
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    October 31, 2017 12:36pm
    - realityczech
      
      Next thing you know you will be opposing religious persecution and bigotry Jacobus, without all those exceptions to the rule. ✡
      
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      October 31, 2017 12:42pm
      - Jack5
        
        ? How yer goin, Kea/Realityczech?
        
        I knew our truce couldn’t last.
        
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        October 31, 2017 12:46pm
      - realityczech
        
        ☮ ♥
        
        All I have every asked for is peace and tolerance Jacobus. 🙂
        
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        October 31, 2017 12:49pm
      - Jack5
        
        Peace, like Kim il Jun….
        
        https://youtu.be/Fe4PEnyVr9E
        
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        October 31, 2017 1:01pm
      - realityczech
        
        Why do you people hate the goy so much Jackboot ?
        
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        October 31, 2017 6:40pm
  - Paulus
    
    McD’s are very careful about whom they employ.
    Their staff are very good in my rare experience – when travelling.
    He would never have passed a drug test I would expect, and to be at work on time, in a uniform and do as he is told, would be impossible.
    
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    October 31, 2017 2:13pm
  - waikatogirl
    
    Actually Griff, he pays well over minimum wage. Seems a really nice bloke, got more work than he can keep up with at present, but perhaps he expects a decent days work for a decent days pay.
    
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    October 31, 2017 5:34pm
Fletch

I was just watching the Midday 1 News about the scrapping of the trolley buses in Christchurch. The government said they are going to scrap them and eventually replace them with electric buses but for the meantime that diesel buses will be used. WTF?! The trolley buses are already electric, aren’t they? They have those overhead wires that provide the power.

This is probably the dumbest thing I have heard today….
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October 31, 2017 12:12pm
- ex-golfer
  
  Don’t you mean Wellington?
  And it wasn’t the Government that made the decision – it was the Wellington Regional Council.
  
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  October 31, 2017 12:46pm
  - Fletch
    
    Well, I am sure they said “the government” when I was watching it. I will watch the TV1+1 channel and report back.
    
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    October 31, 2017 12:57pm
    - Fletch
      
      Yep, you were right, it was Wellington. And the Govt has no plans to intervene to save the trolley buses, according to Phil Twyford.
      
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      October 31, 2017 1:11pm
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Thank Christ they seem to know when they’re not wanted. Hope this is an omen for the future.
        
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        October 31, 2017 5:08pm
  - Paulus
    
    The Wellington Regional Council is dominated by sinecures of the Labour Party.
    Look at the new Chairman and his history (real) and the previous one just given a NZ gong.
    Both ex Labour MPs.
    
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    October 31, 2017 2:16pm
Jack5

Those making bucks from the student visa rort are pressing the new Government to back off blocking this sell-out of the country.

It’s a sell-out because if the education providers were economic they wouldn’t have to sell back door citizenship along with their courses.

Two spokeswomen for the industry were on Radio Labour this morning telling how great the student visa rort is for NZ and talking of it bringing in a billion a year for the economy. You can bet industry lobbyists are pounding on MPs’ doors.

If NZ wants to sell citizenship it should either auction visas or the State itself should sell them on behalf of all citizens.

If the Labour-NZ First Coalition back tracks on ending this rort the issue will be two or three times as big at the next general election, which could take place in much less than three years.
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October 31, 2017 12:42pm
- realityczech
  
  What else should we do to keep those mud-races out Jacobus ?
  
  Are there any ✡ exceptions ✡ or do your views on immigration apply to everyone equally ?
  
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  October 31, 2017 12:45pm
  - Jack5
    
    Kea/realityczech, we’re talking about student visas, not about races. ?
    
    Since you and the resident Nazi are always sniping at Jews, you are in no position to accuse anyone-else of racism.
    
    Why do you hate Jews? Why do your flame-outs on Kiwiblog usually culminate in outbursts about Jews?
    
    Are the rumours true that you believe you are descended from an Emir of Syria? Or was your mind corrupted by Douglas Credit? Or do Israeli backpackers give a hard time to the mountain parrots at Arthur’s Pass?
    
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    October 31, 2017 12:51pm
    - Jack5
      
      ☪☪☪☪☪☪☪
      
      While we’re exchanging pleasantries, Kea/realityczech, is there any word around the souks about what happened to Kiwiblog’s Stephiestanis?
      
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      October 31, 2017 1:21pm
      - SPC
        
        He was banished for a month June-July. Probably then busy with Labour’s campaign … .
        
        Rumoured to have been banned from blogging by the new PM …
        
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        October 31, 2017 6:02pm
      - realityczech
        
        Yeah after his suspension he started spending more time at a radical mosque. Long story short, he went overseas to “serve Islam” and was taken out by a drone. Apparently the goat died too, which is unfortunate.
        
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        October 31, 2017 6:16pm
- Digmen1
  
  Walk around Tauranga at lunch time and you’d swear you were in Bombay (Mumbai)
  
  As a two ticks blue man that was one policy of Labours’ that I liked. – Send them all back, and all the ones here trying to get residency for their whole family as well.
  
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  October 31, 2017 3:05pm
Manolo

It did not take very long:
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/helen-clarks-top-advisor-back-with-labour-party/ar-AAuffSt?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=mailsignout

Former Prime Minister Helen Clark’s top advisor, Heather Simpson, has returned to advise the new Labour Government.

Ms Simpson has a three-decade working relationship with Ms Clark, working as chief of staff to the Labour Party before spending eight years advising Ms Clark at the UN.

Ms Simpson was given the moniker ‘H2’ to signify her proximity to H1 – Ms Clark.
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October 31, 2017 1:36pm
- Paulus
  
  H3 is Grant Robertson and Cinderella was Helen’s onsite Intern – now the new C1.
  
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  October 31, 2017 2:18pm
- Digmen1
  
  “top advisor” is that a grammatical error?
  
  To me, “top” signifies excellence!
  
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  October 31, 2017 3:07pm
Stars And Stripes

NZ considers developing climate change refugee visa
http://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/342749/nz-considers-developing-climate-change-refugee-visa
“The government will consider creating a new visa category for people displaced by climate change, the New Zealand Climate Change Minister James Shaw says”.

Did not take long for the new leadership to start musing about new ways to get more refugees over here.
I’m sure bringing in more poor unskilled people from the worlds shitholes is going to do wonders for the governments heroic battle against garage dwelling and tending to the needs of cold hungry children whose Mums did not have time to give them breakfast as they were too busy trying to fit their oversized ass into undersized track pants.
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October 31, 2017 3:05pm
- Digmen1
  
  Plus the ones that woman Tracey Barnett (?) wants us to take from Papua New Guinea, those nice men that burn their sheds down.
  
  Put them on a boat and tow them back to the middle east.
  
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  October 31, 2017 3:23pm
- Jack5
  
  Yep – thousands of voters conned, especially voters for NZ First.
  
  Cut immigration. Bullshit, reorganising Indian student rort visas.
  
  Higher-skilled immigrants. Bullshit, here comes another flood of Pacific Islanders.
  
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  October 31, 2017 3:23pm
  - realityczech
    
    Those dirty Indians eh Jackboot ?. Whatever shall we do with them ?
    
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    October 31, 2017 6:17pm
Digmen1

National’s Fighting Fund!

Stephen Joyce just emailed me asking me for a donation to help them start a fighting fund.

Ha! – I’m still waiting for the refund of my donations to the 2017 election campaign.

When Stephen promises me that he will get a decent advertising agency with some original ads – not copies of last times!

And can program the ads as well or better than Labour did (Jacinda came up at all the right times)

And when they get a credible right wing third party established.

And when they get some people that can help Bill on the news media – not tainted ones like Paula, and Judith and finance ministers that came up with an 11 million hole that could not be documented.
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October 31, 2017 3:20pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  I got the same email Digmen1 and it went straight to the delete file.
  They didn’t get the message when they had the chance and now it’s too bloody late.
  Bring on the new generation I say.
  
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  October 31, 2017 5:11pm
rightoverlabour

Robertson needs to learn just a little about Economics. The dollar is tanking as international markets know these clowns don’t have a clue. Markets don’t like left wing, spend and tax policies. Get used to paying a lot more for everything. Thanks, Winston. https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/98396091/finance-minister-says-dollar-fall-typical-of-when-governments-change
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October 31, 2017 3:43pm
Manolo

Would you trust this man on economic matters?
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/markets/robertson-very-confident-about-state-of-nz-economy/ar-AAufAmn?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=mailsignout

He said the economy was bearing up well and he was not detecting the headwinds being suggested by some, including deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters.

“If we get our investment in the productive economy right then we’ll be able to withstand whatever headwinds are out there. I’m very confident about the state of the New Zealand economy.”
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October 31, 2017 3:53pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Give it a few months fatboy, then eat your words.
  
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  October 31, 2017 5:13pm
- KevOB
  
  Send Grant R. off overseas on 6 week quick orientation course.
  He may also need training too on how other countries affect us.
  
  He know too little to be aware that there is more.
  
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  October 31, 2017 5:27pm
Jack5

The Whangarei City Council, Northland Regional Council, and Napier City council have rejected creating special Maori seats.

Radio NZ, reporting the Northland results says “though neither has any Maori councillors”.

Auckland City Council has voted 10 to five to support the Maori-seats idea in principle, as long as a law is changed to allow an increase in the number of seats from the current 20.
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October 31, 2017 4:19pm
- Digmen1
  
  Glad to see some Council with some balls.
  
  Some areas, eg Northland have a high Maori population. I know of one area with a high Maori population that had Maori candidates standing, but they did not get elected.
  
  Maybe the Maori voters could not be botherred voting.
  Or maybe they did not think they were a good candidate!
  
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  October 31, 2017 4:39pm
  - nasska
    
    ….” I know of one area with a high Maori population that had Maori candidates standing, but they did not get elected.”…..
    
    Maybe they were from hapu who didn’t get along with those voters. Maori are tribal & have long memories.
    
    They would rather vote for a pakeha than a descendant of someone who wronged one of their ancestors.
    
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    October 31, 2017 6:45pm
- realityczech
  
  Got a problem with tribes living in their homeland Jackboot ?
  
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  October 31, 2017 6:21pm
  - Jack5
    
    Good evening and مساء الخير ☪Kea/realityczech☪:
    we are talking local-body elections.
    
    So you support fixed representation on local bodies based on race? A bit like this fixed representation based on religion, in Syria (from Wikipedia):
    
    During the French Mandate and after the independence the parliamentary elections in Syria have been held under a system similar to the Lebanese one, with fixed representation for every religious community, including Druzes, Alawis and Christians.
    
    ☪Kea/realityczech,☪ you patronise Maori when you imply these fellow citizens aren’t capable of winning local body representation without special help or privileges.
    
    C’mon ☪Kea/realityczech,☪ stop sulking and get on the Merry Prankster bus.
    
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    October 31, 2017 6:54pm
    - Jack5
      
      You mentioned jackboots.
      
      You haven’t got yours back from the boot repair shop yet ☪Kea/realityczech?☪
      
      Poor old EAD-two going to tonight’s rally alone again?
      
      Ah well, I suppose you could still practise those stiff-arm salutes in front of a mirror. You might find a German march on Youtube to provide the mood.
      
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      October 31, 2017 6:58pm
      - realityczech
        
        Jackboot how much longer have you got in the service ?
        
        Funny thing is Muslim do it too, but real Jews can get off it. You probably don’t know that because you are clearly not very well read at all.
        
        Jewish Israelis are required to serve, as are male Israelis who are Druse and Cherkessian, two non-Jewish minority groups who are faithful to the state of Israel. Male Bedouin Israelis—members of semi-nomadic tribes in the southern portion of Israel—often volunteer for the draft. Most haredi (ultra-Orthodox) Israelis are exempted from service because they are studying at yeshivot (religious academies), a point of contention between secular and religious Israelis.
        
        https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-israel-defense-forces/
        
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        October 31, 2017 7:06pm
      - Jack5
        
        ☪Kea/realityczech:☪
        
        For the mirror saluting, this might be appropriate (it’s from your kameraden across the Pacific):
        
        https://youtu.be/dHzhzVoPmF8
        
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        October 31, 2017 7:10pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Foreigns to be banned from buying existing houses.
-Doesn’t that imply they can still buy land and build houses?
-Rush to change house ownership to a trust or business overseas? There is no way of preventing people from doing off-the-books deals to sell to overseas buyers with financial instruments in other jurisdictions (ie create offsetting liability in another country and keep same nominal owner here). Chinese in particular do these sorts of deals to get around the govt all the time.
-huge numbers of ways of working around it. Will just create a work-around industry for lawyers and accountants.

Net effect will be 9/10ths of fuck all.
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October 31, 2017 4:43pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

NZ Business confidence already tanking:
https://www.interest.co.nz/charts/confidence/business-confidence-general-business
NZ will have recession in 2018.
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October 31, 2017 4:59pm
itstricky

Greens not the only ones calling for donations to pay the bills, then:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11939072
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October 31, 2017 5:26pm
- ex-golfer
  
  Nice try itsticky, but your reading comprehension has failed you.
  There is nothing in that article to indicate National are calling for donations to “pay the bills”.
  Calls for party donations to establish a “fighting fund” are typical across all political parties.
  
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  October 31, 2017 6:08pm
KevOB

Labour will make all existing homes ‘sensitive’, effectively banning foreign buyers
Stuff, today

When everything’s “sensitive”, nothings “sensitive”.

Refer: The Gondoliers. G&S
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October 31, 2017 5:36pm
Digmen1

Hey Stephen, you have 50 plus MP’s that are getting paid much more than most of us.

Just do your jobs and start fighting in Parliament.
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October 31, 2017 5:45pm
Johnboy

Great bit of legislation by the Muleteam:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98417459/labour-will-make-all-existing-homes-sensitive-effectively-banning-foreign-buyers
That’ll stop all them fuckin foreign millionaire bastards buying up choice real estate in Parenga St. Wainui and Warspite Ave. Porirua! 🙂
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October 31, 2017 5:51pm
- starboard
  
  Liarbor..strangling NZ like there’s no tomorrow.
  Rank amateurs.
  
  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11939094
  
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  October 31, 2017 6:15pm
  - Johnboy
    
    Grant’s quite relaxed about the fall in the NZD I see.
    Still he can afford to be unlike the stupid voters that put him in. After all he doesn’t have to pay to fill up the gas tank on his limo, we get to do that for the slug! 🙂
    
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    October 31, 2017 6:23pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Johnboy:
      
      No worries if this 2013 article is any indication:
      
      Home life is now more settled, but hectic, and Robertson consults his diary to schedule time with Alf. After a whirlwind first week of campaigning, he spent only a few precious hours at their Wilton home on Friday night, before kicking off a countrywide road show yesterday.
      …
      “I am very happy and comfortable with who I am. I could probably loose a few pounds though,” he says chuckling.
      
      There’s different ways you can “loose [sic] a few pounds”. A jog round the block. Or a session in bed with Alf. Or maybe a workout with the ABs as part of his sports portfolio?
      
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      October 31, 2017 6:55pm
      - stigie
        
        A session in bed with Alfie could put on pounds, depends on who gives it and who takes it..?
        
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        October 31, 2017 7:37pm
      - nasska
        
        Somehow I’ve never thought of Grant as a “top” stigie. 🙂
        
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        October 31, 2017 7:45pm
      - stigie
        
        The Wn Fairy would rather be thought of as “top” gun now nasska !~
        
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        October 31, 2017 7:57pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Stigie:
        
        The Wn Fairy would rather be thought of as “top” gun now
        
        I thought we’d previously established that Dad and Richie were Kiwiblog’s top gun pair?
        
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        October 31, 2017 8:08pm
      - stigie
        
        I’ve always rated Dad as our best top gun for meltdowns Nostra..?
        
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        October 31, 2017 8:12pm
Viking2

Looking forward here is a very good view of the future. Its interesting packed with research. Serious change is coming.

The fragmentation of society

In the interest of brevity, let’s take it is a given that we’re going to see massive technological change in the next 20 years. In fact, we will see more change – and improvement – in the next 20 years than we’ve seen in the last hundred. Think where we were 100 years ago and how much has changed since then. That much and more is going to happen in the next two decades. Global society really is going to transform that fast.

Let’s start with some good news. In 1820 some 94% of the world’s population lived in extreme poverty. By 1990 the figure was 35%, and in 2015 it was just 9.6%. Forty percent of those who remain impoverished live in just two countries, Nigeria and India, both of which are growing rapidly and will see their extreme poverty significantly decrease in the next 20 years.

https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/90614/john-mauldin-sees-major-changes-coming-and-argues-unimaginable-and-unmanageable-future

There is research to show that, on a global basis, the poor are getting richer faster than any other group. However, if you look around the US or Europe, that is not the conclusion you come to. But Africa or Asia? Absolutely. Let’s be clear: The Industrial Age and free-market capitalism, for all of its bumps and warts, has lifted more people out of poverty and extended more lives than has any other single development. The collapse of communism has been a great boon to humanity (even if it is still talked about favorably in Western universities).

A landmark 2017 study even looked at the impact of just industrial robots on jobs from 1993 to 2007 and found that every new robot replaced around 5.6 workers, and every additional robot per 1,000 workers reduced the percentage of the total population employed by 0.34% and also reduced wages by 0.5%. During that 14-year period of time, the number of industrial robots quadrupled and between 360,000 and 670,000 jobs were erased. And as the authors [Daron Acemoglu and Pascual Restrepo] noted, “Interestingly, and perhaps surprisingly, we do not find positive and offsetting employment gains in any occupation or education groups.” In other words, the jobs were not replaced with new jobs.

Good work and participating in society give us meaning in life. Income just gives us a way to scrape by, but not personal life satisfaction or meaning, which is why we have an epidemic of opioid deaths, suicides, and rising deaths from alcoholism in the United States among white unemployed workers between 45 and 54. They have lost meaning and hope in their lives.

The calls for a guaranteed basic income (like Mark Zuckerberg’s) are just beginning, but that is going to become a major political theme in our future.
Like King Canute, we cannot stop the tides – but perhaps we could get creative and channel that tide. What do we think of shorter work weeks? Just as Roosevelt put men to work during the Depression, maybe we need to think about finding jobs around our communities that need to be done. Guaranteed basic employment. Mull that over

Much more.
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October 31, 2017 5:58pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  You don’t have to be employed to participate in society. (Ask any housewife.)
  Personal life satisfaction or meaning is not always tied to having a paying job.
  
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  October 31, 2017 6:17pm
  - SPC
    
    Just ask those who make their money off the untaxed CG of their property portfolio.
    
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    October 31, 2017 6:46pm
  - treadingthemill
    
    You don’t have to be employed to participate in society.
    
    True, which is one of the arguments for a UBI. Automation is going to be a major challenge to how we think about work, and a persons value to society in relation to paid/unpaid work. I think a UBI is worth investigating.
    
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    October 31, 2017 6:58pm
- SPC
  
  It’s not just the unemployment factor, which is higher in many areas of Europe (albeit amongst younger age groups).
  
  It’s the term limits to American welfare – meaning those of that age group survive by mortgaging their property – facing homelessness by the time they reach social security age. Some are in despair over loss of health care and being unable to put their children through university …
  
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  October 31, 2017 6:44pm
Viking2

Nazi’s never give up.

Court challenge seeks greater restrictions on supermarket alcohol areas

A small-town supermarket has become the latest battleground for setting limits for displaying alcohol for sale.

Dannevirke New World’s liquor licence was granted with a defined floor plan for alcohol display, but an Alcohol Regulatory and Licensing Authority declined to make rules about where shelves had to be placed, and which way they should face.

Manawatu medical officer of health Rob Weir appealed against a district licensing committee decision two years ago, and then again from an authority decision given in May.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/98393419/court-challenge-seeks-greater-restrictions-on-supermarket-alcohol-areas

N ext they will be back controlling the sales of contraceptives.

Another National fuck up.
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October 31, 2017 7:31pm
- nasska
  
  ….”Another National fuck up”….
  
  National made ‘kicking the can down the road’ into an art form V2. Any time something controversial requiring a bit of guts to make a decision came up they’d offload responsibility to local authorities…..anything other than taking a stand.
  
  (Unless of course it was pivotal to the support of their scum religious/conservative mates).
  
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  October 31, 2017 7:51pm
sooty

Stuff website says don’t have babies after you are past 40yrs. I know someone that’s pushing the envolope.
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October 31, 2017 8:04pm
- nasska
  
  There’s probably a little package of eggs in a freezer somewhere sooty.
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:08pm
Tauhei Notts

I saw a delightful headline that emphasised the necessity of correct punctuation. In this instance they omitted one little hyphen, and changed the whole story around from students gaining work experience. It read
STUDENTS GAIN FIRST HAND JOB EXPERIENCE
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October 31, 2017 8:38pm
- nasska
  
  They must have been late starters Tauhei. I got my first handjob off my mate’s fat sister when I was still thirteen.
  
  She drew the line at that although….no oral, no anal & “I don’t want to get pregnant”. 🙂
  
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  October 31, 2017 8:45pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Wow, that’s the sort of shit the world needs to know about.
    Are you an attention seeker?
    
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    October 31, 2017 9:37pm
Digmen1

Roosevelt did not put everyone to work during the depression.
It was when the USA joined WWII that millions of previously unemployed joined the army and navy etc and started working in the factories.
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October 31, 2017 9:50pm
Digmen1

This universal wage idea is a joke.

Who is going to pay it – business or tax payers?

Will they then say how many children if any, that you can have, as we cannot afford to pay them as well!

Macron in France is trying to get rid of their 35 hour week and make people work 40 hours!

Germany is a fairly automated country but they still want to import refugees to work in their factories and pay the pensions of the elderly.
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October 31, 2017 9:53pm
Piniwi

Well that didn’t take long. The great Taxinda 100 day plan is already obsolete it seems. She is already working on the NEW 100 day B plan yet to be released. Perhaps it was trashed after WP put it all together in his 38 page addendum clearing up what she wanted as opposed to what he would give her. Popcorn country for all while we watch his battling to control this bunch of losers. Meanwhile the Kiwi $ is tanking and the best of pip fruit exports have been lost to a usually reliable fungicide. Lol
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October 31, 2017 10:05pm
Rachael Membery

Three strikes to go.
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November 1, 2017 7:17am

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