General Debate 30 September 2017

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Captain Mainwaring

Why is it even Winston’s choice as to who becomes the Government when he’s only got 7.5%?
Surely it should be the decision of the highest-polling party as to who they choose to prop them up.
Having a coalition of the losers shouldn’t even come into it.
How the Hell did this potential clusterfuck even become a consideration?
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September 30, 2017 8:03am
- srylands
  
  Arithmetic unfortunately.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:07am
  - redqueen
    
    And Downs, ‘An Economic Theory of Democracy’. The political spectrum, particular in a multi-party system, is a treacherous beast.
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:47am
- tas
  
  That’s proportional representation for you. It gives minor parties a disproportionate say.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:10am
  - Dave Mann
    
    You don’t have the correct terminology. Its not proportional representation, its extortional misrepresentation.
    
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    September 30, 2017 10:12am
    - sooty
      
      Next election it would not suprise me to see the majority voting for two parties and the rest getting sweet bugger all!
      
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      September 30, 2017 11:44am
- Disaster Area
  
  Probably more worrying is the fact that he got 7.5% in the first place.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:12am
- kevn
  
  CM. I guess the Nats do have a choice… only of the two parties. They can turf NZF if the Greens buckle a bit on wacko policies and so get to go into the tent.
  Outcome not ideal in any form really. But there you go, NZ spoke, some probably regret their choice now.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:15am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Labour has the same choice, but for them, either the Greens or NZF does not give them enough seats to form a government. Even without Act, and even if they lost a seat or two on special votes, the Nats could still govern with either the Greens or NZF.
    
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    September 30, 2017 8:36am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Agree KS, but why should Labour have the choice when they got 35.8% and National got 46?
      Labour’s only way of making it in is to cobble together the votes of all the losers (including them) and this is ludicrous.
      In Germany, Merkel (even with only 32% because nobody got more) gets to choose the coalition partners.
      
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      September 30, 2017 9:23am
      - chris
        
        Because 46% of the seats in the house is not enough to win the vote of confidence in the house, which is done in the opening session of Parliament.
        
        You can’t just force (or choose, in your words) another party to give you confidence in the house just because you won the most seats.
        
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        September 30, 2017 9:32am
      - chris
        
        I should also add that Merkel does not get to choose by virtue of having the most votes. From my reading of it, it’s pretty much impossible for a combination of the other parties to get more than 50% because they’re too diametrically opposed to each other. Merkel is currently facing a tough job trying to cobble a coalition or support for a minority government together. Took months at the last election.
        
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        September 30, 2017 9:41am
      - tas
        
        I think you misunderstand how the German system works. Merkel was declared the winner by the media, not the constitution. Coalition negotiations are ongoing, but the numbers make it almost impossible for the main opposition party to put together a majority (it’s about as remote as the possibility of a Labour-NZF-ACT-Green-Mana coalition).
        
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        September 30, 2017 9:45am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  How the Hell did this potential clusterfuck even become a consideration?
  
  Because the nation voted to retain MMP – the system that has presented this outcome three times in the eight MMP elections.
  
  As Einstein so eloquently put it “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
  
  The same thinking that brought MMP into existence is no use when trying to deal with this loop of insanity.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:16am
  - Muttonbird
    
    With respect to the housing, infrastructure, inequality, and environmental problems we now face, National might want to have read that Einstein quote more regularly.
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:11am
    - jcuk
      
      Indeed Muttonbird but do not expect much support from the clusterfolk here with their straightjacket minds.
      
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      September 30, 2017 9:28am
- SGA
  
  @Captain Mainwaring
  
  Why is it even Winston’s choice as to who becomes the Government when he’s only got 7.5%?
  
  Mathematics – neither National/Act or Labour/Greens could convince enough people to vote for them to give them a clear majority.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:16am
- Chuck Bird
  
  I wonder if any those complaining about Winston’s power in negotiations in the second referendum on voting systems.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:22am
  - sam green
    
    Pardon?
    
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    September 30, 2017 1:51pm
- Victor Omega
  
  What gets me is headlines like “who will Winston choose?”, “What does Winston want?”, “Will Winston choose a blue cod or a red snapper?”, “Winston says calling him “maverick” is ‘not smart'” people seem Ok with this?? … and I’m over here like wtf happened to power vested in the PEOPLE. “Kingmaker”. Pffft.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:23am
- Paulus
  
  Called MMP !
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:31am
  - waikatogirl
    
    MMP, Jim Anderton’s legacy.
    Typical lefty stuffing it up for the rest of us. ?
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:26am
    - MT_Tinman
      
      Hogwash!
      
      The bloody lefty who gave NZ bloody proportional representation (after which the idiots chose bloody MMP) is bloody Jim bloody Bolger.
      
      May the fleas of a thousand camels infest his left testicle!
      
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      September 30, 2017 3:54pm
- GazzaW
  
  ‘How the hell did this potential clusterfuck even become a consideration?’
  
  Because too many people ignored the exhortations for “Two Ticks Blue” and gave their party vote to NZF because in their minds National was becoming too complacent/lazy/arrogant/tired (take your pick) after nine years in Government.
  
  Well, wasn’t that a smart move and that’s why we are where we are now.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:45am
  - lifesgood
    
    Sorry, downtick was meant to be an uptick. I agree with you and silly old WO led the charge banging on and on about just that. I doubt he has huge influence but all the same he spent months and months on anti English, pro Winston rhetoric.
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:01am
    - VicParking
      
      As for WO ……… not worth the effort. Hes a ?
      
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      September 30, 2017 9:37am
- Gruffydd
  
  Peters is center left
  Somewhere between national and labour .
  Depending on what the two major party’s offer him he will go right or left.
  This is just democratic politics.
  No tail wagging the dog or king maker .. majority rule .
  Before MMP such negotiating happened behind closed doors among a few powerful party members .
  We had no way at all of influencing this from out side the party’s. We voted left or right and had little influence on what this meant in detail.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:48am
  - srylands
    
    Sorry but your left, right, centre left, go right go left, is just meaningless bullshit.
    
    New Zealand First is, mostly, an advocate for poor public policy. Costly, inconsistent, and impoverished.e.g. Moving a port on a political whim at a cost of billions.
    
    Until people start thinking in these terms, we will always be in danger of being fucked. Large countries can absorb a certain amount of stupid policy. New Zealand, with a small open economy seriously cannot.
    
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    September 30, 2017 8:59am
    - Gruffydd
      
      Moving the port will be another of the NZF’s bottom lines that are negotiable.
      The business case for Whangarei as opposed to Auckland does not stack up
      National will not support adding the freight cost between AK and Whangarei to our economy.
      The greens will not support the resulting blow out in our emissions.
      Not even on the table.
      I did not add populist to my political positions. I thought it was self evident.
      
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      September 30, 2017 9:46am
    - Left Right and Centre
      
      Sorry but your left, right, centre left, go right go left, is just meaningless bullshit
      
      Hey – I’m people too man.
      
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      September 30, 2017 5:52pm
  - VicParking
    
    You will upset the MSM with talk like that, they think that they decide who he will go with.
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:38am
- fluffykiwi
  
  Bill English could push Winnie out in the cold, Ask the Greens to join them, and go to the governor General and ask to form a government. Winnie can wait until the 7th October or the 12th or whatever, but by then it would be all over.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:57am
  - srylands
    
    Yeah Im getting tired of that fantasy. Just because they are called “green” does not make them palatable. It is a communist party.
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:01am
    - sam green
      
      No it’s not.
      
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      September 30, 2017 1:55pm
      - Komata
        
        Sam Green: If the greens aren’t ‘Communist’, what would you classify them as? (Serious question BTW). Thanks.
        
        I
        
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        September 30, 2017 3:30pm
      - sam green
        
        Social democrats with a strong focus on a sustainable and healthy environment.
        
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        September 30, 2017 8:36pm
      - sam green
        
        They and Ardern are no more communist that National are KKK. It’s nonsense name calling.
        
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        September 30, 2017 8:38pm
    - Victor Omega
      
      At least it would wipe the shit-eating grin off that Cheshire Cat looking motherf***er who has been dubbed “Caesar”. GFY, Caesar.
      
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      September 30, 2017 2:58pm
- KevOB
  
  It falls to Bill English to make the running. He can approach whoever he pleases.
  
  More media beat up. National are constitutionally the real King Makers as the choice of partners is firstly theirs.
  
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  September 30, 2017 10:55am
oldpark

Who is sorry now. All those believers in the snake oil election campaign by Peters on a binding referenda on racist Maori seats. N ow there has been a massive indication that a flip flop will take place. No Referenda suckers. Thanks for your vote.
By 2020 you will have forgotten “suckers”,and i will once more campaign on the same bullshit.
By the way “suckers” watch this space you havn’t seen anything yet.You will think the Maori seat flip flop caused some of you heartburn .Next week it could be rage and heart attacks a speciality.The only thing that may worry me ,is my loyal army of over 65s gold card supporters,might start calling me “Judas”,hope not.
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September 30, 2017 8:12am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  More denial from the “two ticks blue” crowd.
  
  It was a protest vote aimed not to support Winston, but to signal protest. How else can traditional National voters, who are dismayed at how the party has transitioned into Labour Lite, signal to a party (that is not listening and is taking the electorate for granted) that they do not support their direction.
  
  A choice between:
  – very bad (with teeth and a red rose)
  and
  – very bad (with a blue N)
  is unacceptable.
  
  No matter what other good they’ve done, National crossed the line with:
  – increasing the refugee quota
  – anti-semitic UNSC 2334 supporting terrorists
  – the virtue-signalling insanity of the pay equity settlement
  – the flag referendum vanity project
  – the RMA sell-out to brownmail
  – the failure to deliver on the 2008 promise on the Maori seats
  – the continued avoidance of dealing with the growing problem of welfarism lifestylers
  – the failure to reduce the tax burden on the productive few.
  
  You voted in favour of the above. I voted against. You voted for the status quo, I voted to deeply inconvenience National. The chances are that in a modified form, we’ll both get our wish.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:30am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    You voted in favour of the above. I voted against.
    
    Even Peters has now abandoned the idea of a referendum on the Maori seats. How do you feel about that?
    
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    September 30, 2017 8:39am
    - projectman
      
      Why would DP feel any differently? At least he is being true to his principles.
      
      Going back to Winston Peters’ seeming change of mind (but noting WP says he hasn’t, it’s just how the media interpreted it), the quote from Groucho Marx is apt for politics in the MMP era:
      
      “If you don’t like my principles I have others”.
      
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      September 30, 2017 8:52am
    - DifferentPerspective
      
      Don’t care about it, Keeping Stock.
      
      I never for one second thought that there was any benefit in voting for Winston. I do not trust the man, I do not like how he has continually gamed our broken electoral system.
      
      All I wanted to was to make life unpleasant for National, in that the hope that when they do their post-election review, they will say to themselves “How the hell did that happen, what can we do to get our supporters back?”.
      
      Currently National are off chasing votes among the indigent, indolent and lawless and taking for granted their core centre-right supporters. Well I resolved that they couldn’t take my party vote for granted.
      
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      September 30, 2017 1:19pm
  - cmm
    
    No it was not a protest vote.
    
    The people who want Winnie want him in opposition, not driving the country.
    
    With the early polling it looked like he wouldn’t even make parliament so a few too many of them then voted and put him in a stronger position that they intended.
    
    The problem is not inherently an MMP problem.
    
    It is a Winston Peters + MMP problem. If the bugger just played by the rules of decent society then no worries.
    
    But no, be always has to grab everything he can.
    
    Give him a super and he grabs the extra $60.
    
    Give him a place in parliament and he’s got to exploit it to the max.
    
    The bugger is being paid to work for us – including an extra $100k if he becomes a cabinet minister, but he still rorts the system for everything he can.
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:41am
    - DifferentPerspective
      
      You didn’t vote for Winston cmm. Nothing is farther from his interest than what you want. Yes taxpayers $ are the source of his income, but it’s just madness to think there is any accountability to do anything for those $$$s. This is the price of democracy. It is a sunk cost.
      
      The only accountability for Winston is to the 7.5% who voted for him. If he maximises the benefit to those 7.5% – then that is all he has to do to realistically get their vote again.
      
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      September 30, 2017 1:24pm
- VicParking
  
  When push comes to shove the only real bottom lines Winston will have will be on his arse and on the leather in the back seat of a BMW.
  
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  September 30, 2017 9:41am
Manolo

Not a bad month for investors:
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/29/this-is-the-least-volatile-september-ever-heres-what-that-means-for-stocks.html
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September 30, 2017 8:17am
- kowtow
  
  October , the month for crashes?
  
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  September 30, 2017 10:10am
  - Manolo
    
    Let us hope it is not the case!
    
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    September 30, 2017 1:52pm
MT_Tinman

The Pom cricket outfit should stop worrying.

If the Pom judiciary do their job quickly enough Stokes could beat the cricket team to Oz.
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September 30, 2017 8:18am
- Keeping Stock
  
  Very good MT. I hope Stokes does play in the Ashes series, because the reception he and his short fuse will get from the Ocker crowds will be fun, to say the least!
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:40am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    The only problem KS, might be that if he is subject to “transportation” does he automatically become an Ocker?
    
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    September 30, 2017 8:53am
- G152
  
  Looks like the Poms hate any-one who stands up for themselves or others when attacked by yobbos with bottles.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:50am
  - VicParking
    
    Fake news?… lets wait till the real facts come out. When you watch the video the man he flawed was trying to calm the man down not attack him with a bottle
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:43am
Longknives

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/97412114/librarian-rejects-melania-trumps-gift-of-dr-seuss-books

“Seuss’ illustrations are “steeped in racist propaganda, caricatures, and harmful stereotypes,” librarian Liz Phipps Soeiro wrote in a letter to Trump on Tuesday..”

Dr Seuss was an evil White Supremacist? Who knew???
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September 30, 2017 8:20am
- Viking2
  
  Everyone knows that don’t they?
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:23am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Dr Spock, the original one with out pointy ears, how is he faring in this current rearrangement of our history?
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:02am
- VicParking
  
  Plus a school lays down the flag as a door mat.
  Praised by CNN, rubbished by Fox.
  
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  September 30, 2017 9:45am
- KevOB
  
  Do I have to recall all my children and re-educate them: maths, calculus, physics, chemistry, antiseusianism, old and middle, ~~English .~~
  
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  September 30, 2017 11:02am
Viking2

So the envious still are out there.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11927299

From someone who really has nothing much to crow about. Indeed would have no idea at all what business takes.
How do these people get asked to write their socialist drivel?
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September 30, 2017 8:22am
- mikenmild
  
  Indeed. I find it impossible to believe that anyone could manage Fonterra for less than $10 million per year. They get Spierings at a bargain rate.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:28am
  - peterwn
    
    Like to try and sit at his desk for a day? You would not know what has hit you. For a job like that one needs amazing knowledge, analytical, human interactive, strategic vision and other skills. Very few have them and those who are known to have them are actively headhunted. You need to be on top of every aspect of the business or have people who you can trust to be on top of their areas of concern and then mediate between these people (the former head of a major British insurance company once told me that a major part of his job was mediating between the managers who reported to him). As long as he produces the goods for his farmer-shareholders and the NZ economy he is a bargain at $8M a year. One can be quite sure that if he does not produce the goods the Fonterra farmer-shareholders will be baying for his blood. And these shareholders will be far more cynical and bloody minded than the average company shareholder.
    
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    September 30, 2017 8:44am
    - jcuk
      
      I take your point peterwn but it is still obscene that somebody is paid that sort of money.
      
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      September 30, 2017 9:41am
      - VicParking
        
        It might be for you, but you hate the rich pricks.
        He is pissed off because he has to pay $3 million in tax. You wont pay that in a lifetime.
        
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        September 30, 2017 9:48am
      - GazzaW
        
        …….and how obscene is it that a European soccer player, a dropkick singer with the mind of an ant or an American basketball player can earn three or four times as much as Spierings without incurring any socialist wrath – in fact quite the reverse.
        
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        September 30, 2017 10:43am
    - Ross12
      
      The problem is Peter , this year Fonterra had a drop in profits ( and revenue, I think). I know these guys have there performance measured against other things as well , but it doesn’t present a good “picture” when the public and probably most farmer shareholders only see those figures.
      
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      September 30, 2017 10:02am
    - trout
      
      People have short memories. It is not so long ago that Fonterra fell into a big hole and went through a massive restructure with hundreds of layoffs. New leadership has got the business back on track. Re NZ Inc. Fonterra has become a major income earner; that it is a virtual monopoly is a worry but size matters when competing with the like of Nestle. Being a cooperative the business model is somewhat skewed; capital raising is difficult and compulsory retention of funds to pay out exiting farmers is a handicap but in spite of limitations it is probably the most successful cooperative in the world.
      
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      September 30, 2017 11:01am
      - Ross12
        
        ” but in spite of limitations it is probably the most successful cooperative in the world.”
        
        Little bit of a stretch there trout. Number 33 on this list and there are agriculture/forestry ones ahead of it ( the category it falls into)
        
        https://www.thenews.coop/49090/sector/view-top-300-co-operatives-around-world/
        
        But I agree with your use of the word “limitations”. I recall reading many years ago that in the late 1960’s Nestle and the NZ Dairy Board were about the same size in terms of revenue. I wonder where the co-op would be today if they had separated the production/farming side and the marketing arm ( with the Co-op retaining a major shareholding in the marketing arm). I know this idea has been promoted since, several times. I think it is a shame it did not go anywhere –too late now,probably.
        
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        September 30, 2017 11:27am
    - KevOB
      
      Fonterra provides the blood for the NZ economy. It’s driver has to be paid the world market price.
      
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      September 30, 2017 11:05am
  - Happychappy
    
    So MM he gets paid that but isn’t it up to the farmers and investers in Fonterra to rebel and say enough if they are not happy. When has the Government and any MP had the right to interfere it is for those that own it to fix the problem if they are not happy.
    
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    September 30, 2017 8:45am
    - mikenmild
      
      Hey, I’m not arguing with you. The increasing scarcity of top manager in recent decades has inevitably meant that they must now be paid much more, proprotionately and in real terms, than the lucklustre managers of the 1970s and 1980s.
      We should be grateful for the development of MBA programmes that have allowed executives to to make a step change in skills.
      Remember, the greater proportion of total remuneration allocated to the top performers (and the CE must, by definition, be the top performer), the more successful the company.
      
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      September 30, 2017 8:55am
    - Digmen1
      
      I used to be against fat cat CEO’s huge salaries.
      
      But I note that when any politcian eg Winston comes out against such and such a high salary eg Theo Sperrings, they never say what they think would be a fair salary.
      
      1 million
      2 million
      100K
      200K
      
      And its not Salary.
      Its salary plus bonus!
      
      I’m more anti Metiria Turei’s salary for being a greedy thieving bitch! Who advocates all poor people should steal!
      
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      September 30, 2017 12:16pm
  - GazzaW
    
    His base salary is $2 million which is the going rate in NZ for the CEO of a large company. The additional $6 million is made up by productivity bonuses. Bearing in mind that under his watch Fonterra concluded one single deal worth two billion dollars then that bonus was well earned.
    
    Whose business is it anyway mikey. Do you own Fonterra shares? If so then make your protest known at the AGM. You might be on your own though given the lack of comment from Fonterra’s dairy farmer shareholders.
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:00am
  - stigie
    
    Milky’s like the rest of the left, they hate the rich prick that’s used their head to better themselves and the people around them.
    Just one reason why smart people voted 2 ticks blue !~
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:05am
    - mikenmild
      
      I don’t hate them, or even envy them. True, it is a matter for the shareholder. If they want to believe the snake-oil salesmen who claim such salaries are necessary then that’s their choice.
      
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      September 30, 2017 9:11am
      - stigie
        
        Sounds like you don’t believe that Spierings is worth that much Milky..?
        It’s ok, you can come out and say it ole chap !~
        
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        September 30, 2017 9:19am
      - mikenmild
        
        If you are asking me whether I believe senior executives are much more capable now than their predecessors thirty years ago, then the answer is no.
        
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        September 30, 2017 9:26am
  - Gabby
    
    If they’d offered him a cent less he’d have been snapped up by the competition in a trice. A trice. Twice a trice at the outside.
    
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    September 30, 2017 6:42pm
- redeye
  
  Lorde is expected to make somewhere around the same amount this year. Will Lizzy to write about the injustice of Ella making 100+ times the salary of her cleaner?
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:46am
  - SGA
    
    Interesting comparison. I guess one could argue that a CEO appointed to a major corp like Fonterra has done less directly to create that industry/wealth than a Gates, Jobs, or, I suppose, Lorde. hmmm…
    
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    September 30, 2017 8:53am
  - MCos
    
    A bunch of women won $31mil on lotto the other day too, and someone in the states won a billion.
    With all due respects to Lorde, there’s a gazillion talented singer/songwriters out there. Most of them barely scratch out enough money to buy a feed, let alone a living, at their craft. A certain amount of luck is involved in cracking the big time.
    In that respect going into the world of art is a financial gamble far moreso than a financial career path.
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:50am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Indeed.
      To be financially self-supporting in an arts career, you need to find a sponsor or make sufficient mutually -agreed-upon transactions with clients to provide your income.
      
      If the buyers don’t like your art, you’ll starve.
      
      7 0
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      September 30, 2017 11:36am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Gosh, maybe some of those Journalists should band together and try the Fonterra model – become an owner-cooperative of their own products.
  
  Trouble is.. they might discover:
  1. they have to get off their chuffs and do some real work and
  2. nobody really needs their daily drivel
  
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  September 30, 2017 9:08am
  - MCos
    
    Some of them don’t need to if they can figure out what people want to hear. Take for example Mike Hosking who is some sort of lightweight populist entertainer/herd leader/media presenter. Probably amongst the highest paid of his ilk in NZ and pulling in a tidy sum.
    Nothing, of course, in comparison to the $30 mill odd paid to the likes of Hannity in the US just for telling a certain segment of society what they want to hear.
    
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    September 30, 2017 1:59pm
103PapPap

Up here in Europe on holiday reading the UK papers, I’ve previously commented about how NZ Labour seem to take their policies from UK labour.
Today UK Labour announced they will introduce rent control, so I’m guessing that it won’t be long before NZ Labour also announce this policy.
Rent Control, taken from Ontario, Berlin and New York; cities that already have rent control policies, ensures that rent rises are limited, rentals are fit for habitation, and if a developer wants to redevelop, the existing renters must be allowed into the redeveloped rental for the same rent.
Watch this space!
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September 30, 2017 8:27am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  The left has better be careful they don’t get what they wish for, I hear that the advent of AirBNB has had a massive extinguishing effect upon supply in the major cities in Europe.
  
  As it is easier to rent to AirBNB on a higher per night basis than it is to comply with the increasingly punitive rental housing regimes – the supply of long-term rentals is decreasing.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:34am
  - fluffykiwi
    
    In certain cities in either Spain or Portugal (Not sure) they actually have inspectors to try and find the Air B & B’s because of that issue of lack of rentals for the locals. You are taxed accordingly.
    
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    September 30, 2017 9:07am
    - sooty
      
      They tryed rent and price control afew years ago. That worked well!
      
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      September 30, 2017 11:53am
    - Viking2
      
      Auckland CC are up to that currently as is queenstown. so they can apply a toilet tax. For less use than any rental
      Fatuous slimy fucking socialists.
      
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      September 30, 2017 9:49pm
oldpark

Think it may be time for the out of control smart arse Wellingtons Mayor Justin Lester had a visit from the Attorney General and a few please explains.
Lester seems to make off the cuff unilateral decisions on far reaching consequences for the City of Wellington.
When a controversial one man band dictatorial decision is made, Lester hides behind the lie that he has the approval of all of the council.
Wellington ratepayers are now waking up to the fact,that maybe Wade-Brown previous Mayor was not so bad after all .
Why does Lester think he has a mandate ,to run roughshod over Ratepayers by some of the unilateral decisions he makes.
Of course he has the stamp of Lie-bour/Green Mafias,born to rule attitude .Maybe the same type of get stuffed Ratepayers or Voters ,that may also become apparent should “Commie Chic” Comrade Ardern get the nod from another slippery Politician called Peters. Talk about birds of a feather Lester and Peters. Both seem to have more power than the North Korean dictator.
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September 30, 2017 8:31am
- KevOB
  
  What does the Attorney General have to do with the Mayor of Wellington? He’s possibly a ratepayer but what formal oversight?
  
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  September 30, 2017 11:10am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Some-one confusing Auditor-General with Attorney-General, I suspect.
    
    5 0
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    September 30, 2017 11:30am
    - KevOB
      
      I wondered about that too but the Auditor General only has oversight over monetary matters not cancelling public events.
      
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      September 30, 2017 4:58pm
- Left Right and Centre
  
  yeah – er – people voted for that c*&t
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:38pm
Gerrit

After Winston And Jacinda have concluded their “talks” and shaken hands as new best buddies, would it not be interesting if the Greens said, James Shaw as minister of the environment or we wont support your nuptials. Another round of negotiations to follow?

Mind you the Greens would need to grow a pair first.

Are general elections held strictly on a three year time frame or does the three year parliamentary term start when a new government is sworn in?

If Winston dithers and the Greens refuse to join the triad without equal representation that NZ First are getting from Labour, could they spend valuable parliamentary time “negotiating” an accord to govern. Could National be a care taker government for three years?
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September 30, 2017 8:35am
- tas
  
  The negotiations do not affect the length of parliament, unless they fail and an early election is called. As far as I know, the incumbent government can stay on as a caretaker government as long as it doesn’t lose a confidence vote in parliament.
  
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  September 30, 2017 10:01am
Chuck Bird

Does everyone discount the possibility that Winston will go with Labour and get a referendum on the Maori seats, number of MPs and smacking?

The Greens would have to suck it up or force another election and oblivion.
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September 30, 2017 8:54am
SPC

USA pulling diplomats out of Cuba because … directed (not audible) sonic attacks at its staff

Using an inaudible sound device for a stealth attack “is quite plausible from a technical point of view”, Denis Bedat, a specialist in bio-electromagnetics, told AFP news agency this week.

“Ultrasonic waves, beyond the acoustic capacity of humans, can be broadcast with an amplifier, and the device does not need to be large, or used inside or outside a house.”

He gave as an example the Active Denial System (ADS), an anti-riot gun used by US police forces that emits electromagnetic waves which produce a sudden unbearable burning sensation.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41446697

An irony as the net is full of accounts of people across the USA who believe they have been attacked by related weaponry – and most suspect agencies of their own government.
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September 30, 2017 9:41am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  I hear that tinfoil provides excellent protection from inaudible sound.
  
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  September 30, 2017 11:38am
  - SPC
    
    Maybe the USA State Department cannot afford to buy any protection for its staff from those with access to the technology being used. A pity for those whose health has been impacted, they did not expect to be targeted with a technology also used by military in combat zones.
    
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    September 30, 2017 4:37pm
- Gabby
  
  Odd that they don’t have recorded evidence of it. Yankers are a bit susceptible to mass hysteria of course.
  
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  September 30, 2017 6:58pm
tom hunter

Well this Trump stat is impressive:

“By virtually any measure, dating back through two Democratic presidents and one Republican president, the lack of regulatory output is historic,” states a recent study by the American Action Forum, a right-leaning think tank.

“Actual output was just 8 percent of the historical average,” AAF says.

The study looked at data on regulations from 1994 through 2017, specifically focusing on the period Jan. 23 to May 23 during each year.

Same with the cost of regulations.

“There have been $4.2 billion in regulatory costs since January 23, 2017,” the report states. “The 2005 to 2017 average is $26 billion.” Figures include the costs of independent agencies.

Or put another way, costs imposed by the administration are running at just 16 percent of the historical norm.

They’re also wiping at least some existing regulations, but the reduction in creating new ones may be more important. There was an article a few months ago pointing out that despite the lack of a “government” in Spain and all the wrangling over one, business activity and economic growth there had been at its highest for years. It seemed that even under the burden of all the existing crap, business could recover – as long as it did not have to face a constantly changing and growing set of rules.

Food for thought as we await Winny’s choice.
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September 30, 2017 9:49am
- Scott
  
  That’s a good point. When you decrease burdensome regulations and allow the market to work and businesses to operate freely then you get growth and prosperity. The US economy is starting to warm up very nicely. The improvements that Trump has made include allowing the energy sector to prosper by reducing burdensome regulations.
  
  Sadly the USA is now relying on its do nothing Congress, particularly the Senate, to pass tax reform and do something about Obama care. They have failed at the latter and one thinks that it is likely that they will fail at the former. You have to wonder what the senators are for? Their only role is to legislate. And they have not managed to pass a significant piece of legislation for years.
  
  New Senate leadership is desperately needed in my opinion.
  
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  September 30, 2017 10:22am
  - All_on_Red
    
    They’ve just posted 3.1% growth.
    Congress is actually doing its part. They’ve passed a lot of stuff.
    It’s the Senate which is the problem. It’s looking likely that Mitch McConnell is going to go.
    There’s three or four other Senators who are in the firing line too.
    
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    September 30, 2017 10:53am
  - tom hunter
    
    As one piece pointed out today, if Chucky was in charge you can bet a slim two-vote majority and three “centrist” Democrat Senators would not stop him from getting his legislation passed.
    
    The first terrible truth is that McConnell and company never wanted to do anything much about Obamacare.
    
    The second – and much greater – terrible truth is that the Senate was designed in every way to stop legislation from proceeding up from the House (or anywhere else for that matter). It was deliberately built to not be pro-active. That’s its job.
    
    Unfortunately what made sense with a tiny government that you want to prevent turning into a tyrant, is now working to enable the growth of that tyrant.
    
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    September 30, 2017 11:09am
nasska

…..”Food for thought as we await Winny’s choice”…..

Give him all the time he wants. A year without new, unnecessary regulatory crap would be too short.
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September 30, 2017 9:55am
Manolo

Trump loses one:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/29/price-has-resigned-as-health-and-human-services-secretary-243315
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September 30, 2017 11:07am
- All_on_Red
  
  Oh no. Poor guy. Just when he was two flights away from Elite Platinum status!
  
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  September 30, 2017 11:15am
Dave Mann

On the Winston Peters question, does anybody here with a legal and political background (for example, somebody with the initials DG) know if a LEGAL challenge to the election non-result is worth thinking about?

Could some clever lawyers stymie the ‘negotiations’ with a (possibly vexatious) challenge in the courts? Something silly like ‘its unfair on the snails’ or ‘the ‘ Ohariu ex-bow-tie wearers association’…. anything to stick a spanner in the works?

What would it take to force a new election? I’m sure I’m not alone in that I’d rather see one party obtain a firm mandate from the electorate than watch everybody being made a fool of my this egotistical prick with 7% support.

Failing this, is there any way Bill English could pre-empt the farce and call another election?
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September 30, 2017 11:35am
- Anne Glen Eden
  
  Yeah right. I’m sure everyone thinks we need our own ‘Gina Miller’ in NZ wasting taxpayers money. Not.
  
  More to the point, you’re in denial. The people of NZ are very clear about what they want.
  
  It’s a fully participant democracy in which people are as free as possible, without identity politics, in a successful economy with the most possible people employed and able to sustain a minimum good quality of life, with a decidedly ‘green’ tinge to maintain a healthy environment, and a system for ensuring that the vulnerable truly not able to provide for themselves are cared for. In particular, right now, they want a National-led coalition which they perceive as the most likely to get closer to it.
  
  As in every country, what we’ve got are a lot of activist ideological purists fighting for every inch of power they can get, willing to sacrifice any and all for it and/or their personal interest groups, who have no integrity in representing the will of the people.
  
  It isn’t Winston or NZF who is to blame. It’s all of the activist politicians and MSM who believe they know better, who have a ‘vision’ for what we all ‘should’ be and want the power to impose it, in a way which they know is relentlessly against the will of the majority of the populace.
  
  There’s no point suggesting they need a ‘mandate’. They can have that anytime they want. They expressly are suppressing said ‘mandate’ – as is Goff in Auckland with the Maori Ward and now Lester in Wellington with Matariki fireworks. They know ‘the people’ don’t and won’t agree with what they’re doing. That’s why they need power without a ‘mandate’ and are claiming that one is unnecessary – albeit by torturing the data and spinning the situation as one.
  
  You’re either being disingenuous or naive. If any of those in power/media were honest about their intentions and prepared to accept a ‘mandate’ from the people, none of the problems would arise. It’s their devoted desire, intention, and orchestrated manipulative will to govern without a mandate that is causing the problem.
  
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  September 30, 2017 12:42pm
- chris
  
  There’s some really good information here about the process of how the election works and Parliament resumes.
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/visit-and-learn/how-parliament-works/fact-sheets/pbrief3
  
  and here
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/visit-and-learn/how-parliament-works/parliamentary-practice-in-new-zealand/chapter-8-parties-and-government/
  
  From my reading of those, Parliament must resume 6 weeks after the writ is returned, regardless of whether or not a coalition arrangement has been made. One of the first orders of business is to vote whether the house has confidence in the Government.
  
  In our current situation, say that Winnie wasn’t able to come to an arrangement with either National or Labour, National would fail the vote of confidence. Presumably Jacinda could then step up but would also fail the vote of confidence. Only then would another election be possible. In practice, I imagine the GG would encourage parties to talk further before allowing another election.
  
  And geez, if a legal challenge could be mounted over this election result, then every election we’ve had under MMP would be contestable. This is just how proportional election systems work: one party rarely gets 50% of the vote. It’s fairly staggering that National has continued to get almost 50%.
  
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  September 30, 2017 1:39pm
  - Gabby
    
    Of course Labour might support the government just to keep them dancing.
    
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    September 30, 2017 7:01pm
Digmen1

Remember that if the left and NZF want to form a coalition then it needs ALL THREE of them to agree. (To give them their 61 seats)
It cannot be formed without all three agreeing to pm, deputy, finance minister and policies etc.

They will all have their bottom lines.

I can’t see it happening if Jacinda sticks to her plan of taking to Winston first, and then the Greens. It should be a three-way.
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September 30, 2017 12:24pm
- Johnboy
  
  A three-way with Jacinda could be an option for a couple of really desperate chaps! 🙂
  
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  September 30, 2017 1:36pm
  - stigie
    
    3 way with Flossie would be a better option JB ..?
    
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    September 30, 2017 4:29pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Stigie:
      
      I’m getting the impression that “Let’s do this” doesn’t do anything for you, like give you warm fuzzy feelings, old chap? Maybe you need to hang out with Starboard, and he’ll give you some new ideas to refresh your perspective!
      
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      September 30, 2017 4:51pm
      - stigie
        
        Shit Nostra, i’d hang with starboard any day of the week as long as Milky’s mum wasn’t with him !~
        
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        September 30, 2017 6:23pm
- Brigitte
  
  In theory, yes. But in practice, no. The Greens only policy is to keep Nat out of power. So they need absolutely nothing (and Winnie will give that to them in spades). This leaves it as a Lab/NZF discussion only.
  
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  September 30, 2017 3:13pm
Muttonbird

I wonder how much pressure The National Party will be placing the Electoral Commission?

Under the Key government we saw the independence of the public services degraded to the point where they’d do anything to avoid embarrassing Key including deliberately delaying OIA requests.

Is the Electoral Commission immune to this pressure? Or are quiet meetings being held about a strategy to minimise further damage to National’s slim lead over Labour and the Greens?
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September 30, 2017 1:14pm
- Johnboy
  
  Yer spot on there Mutter old chap. I really miss the good old times when the civil service chaps used to take turns at embarrassing Helen and she took it all in her stride. Laughing it off as a jolly jape when she took them all down to the local to shout them a few jars on a Friday afternoon!……… Oh such happy days! 🙂
  
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  September 30, 2017 2:15pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Johnhoy:
    
    Helen, on occasion, took things too far:
    
    Timberlands senior manager Kit Richards resigned last night, a swift response to a virtual demand for his head from the Prime Minister.
    
    It was Helen Clark’s second scalp in a week over the behaviour of a state sector employee. Peter Doone stepped down as Police Commissioner on Monday, in strife over his actions when a car in which he was a passenger was stopped by a constable.
    
    So head on a pike (Richards) and balls in the jar (Doone). Just imagine poor Peter waiting at home for his turn!
    
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    September 30, 2017 2:27pm
- Digmen1
  
  What is your defintion of slim? in a 120 seat parliament.
  
  20 or 30?
  
  Yes who ever authorised those ads clearly aimed at the young ones only – should be sacked!
  
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  September 30, 2017 2:51pm
noskire

I’d prefer to see a Labour/NZF/Gween coalition as the next government, because I don’t believe they could last a full term – not even a year.
Either Winsome will throw his toys out of the cot or a couple of MP’s will be forced to resign when some skeletons are brought out of the closet.
National will be punished at the next election if they go into bed with Winsome, and realistically NZF won’t be a part of the equation at the next election.
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September 30, 2017 4:07pm
- KevOB
  
  I don’t believe they could last a full term – not even a year
  
  That’s the very reason for the Governor General to decline such a team and offer the position to Bill English to attempt to form a government.
  
  A would be PM is obliged to show he can secure supply for the budgets required. The GG has some power of decision in respect of that.
  
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  September 30, 2017 5:04pm
  - SPC
    
    The only coalition that did not last its term was a National -NZ First one.
    
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    September 30, 2017 5:14pm
Michael

Can’t see the Greens going with National. I don’t believe Green voters would be very happy about that.
A few might not mind, but not the majority.
So that leaves Winston as Kingmaker or Queenmaker, more likely Kingmaker, in my opinion.
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September 30, 2017 4:18pm
- GoVege
  
  As long as the environment benefits and caged animals are freed, I reckon most Greenies would be OK going with English.
  I would.
  
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  September 30, 2017 10:15pm
Muttonbird

Did you know that just 0.002% of the population voted for ACT in the GE2017?
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September 30, 2017 7:53pm
- Awww C-mon
  
  Do you know that 100% of Awww C-mon thinks you are a dick.
  
  Trolls are welcome here though, the intelligent ones tend to last. You won’t.
  
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  September 30, 2017 7:55pm
- Brigitte
  
  Yes, and all the other parties hate each other and won’t form a viable coalition so they’ll all abstain (so not to be seen as responsible for the new election) and ACT will be a minority Government with just 1 seat. Or maybe not. Gee, I just love making up all these hypotheticals that are pointless.
  
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  September 30, 2017 8:44pm
nasska

Studies suggest that masturbation is twice as effective as sex for dealing with stress.

So one in the hand really is worth two in the bush.
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September 30, 2017 9:20pm

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