General Debate 27 September 2017

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tas

1996: 4 minor parties with 39 seats (ACT,Alliance,NZF,UF)
1999: 5 minor parties with 32 seats (+Green)
2002: 5 minor parties with 41 seats
2005: 6 minor parties with 23 seats (+Maori)
2008: 5 minor parties with 21 seats (-NZF)
2011: 6 minor parties with 28 seats (+NZF,+Mana,-Alliance)
2014: 5 minor parties with 29 seats (-Mana)
2017: 3 minor parties with 17 seats (-UF,-Maori)

Minor parties seem to be dying and new ones (e.g. TOP, Conservative) are stillborn.
NZF might disappear in 2020. ACT is on life support. The Greens had a near-death experience thanks to Turei.

Will the political order return to National vs. Labour?
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September 27, 2017 8:00am
- Jimmy
  
  It’s worth noting that ex-Green voters were polled very recently asking why not vote Green this time round – resoundingly it was because they were attracted by Jacinda, not disillusioned with Metiria and her unrepentant fraud. Most still fervently supported Metiria.
  
  So let’s not think that the Greens suffered because of Metiria – they suffered almost entirely because Jacinda had captured their vacuous, virtue signalling, far-left base better than anyone else.
  
  I can’t see the Greens dipping any more than they have now – they will rebound, at the expense of Labour as Jacindamania continues to wane.
  
  NZF are only around as long as Winston is – but I wouldn’t rule him out of 2020 just yet. ACT are dying, NZers aren’t sufficiently socially liberal and economically conservative.
  
  So next election will be another tight race between National-no-mates and Labour-Green with Kingmaker Winnie holding the country to ransom. Again.
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:06am
  - krazykiwi
    
    NZers aren’t sufficiently socially liberal and economically conservative.
    
    Indeed. Once we encounter the tragic deprivation of ‘successful socialism’ there will be a resurgence of an ACT-like party. Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, but there you have it.
    
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    September 27, 2017 8:11am
    - Jimmy
      
      Maybe, but I’d be surprised if NZers turn to ACT in sufficient numbers as a solution for failed socialist experiments – ACT deters voters with their social liberalism.
      
      I believe that those who reject socialism are more likely to be socially conservative than not, and ACT repels those voters.
      
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      September 27, 2017 8:15am
      - DifferentPerspective
        
        I think it’s something much simpler than social liberalism that meant Act didn’t pick up.
        
        I think it is quite simply that Seymour is a bit of a failure.
        
        1) Not taking a Minister job (to “rebuild the party”) (“rebuilds” by decreasing the share of the party vote)
        2) Going all-in on euthanasia. That translated into a lot of votes (NOT)
        3) Becoming the ‘charter schools’ dude. Sadly, the teachers’ union propaganda machine is winning this battle at the school governors level. As much as it is great for our future, National left him holding the pup. Naive judgment.
        4) Seymour came to life ONLY in the final 4 weeks. What a fucking swamp dweller! Voters want 52+52+52 weeks of action for their vote, talk about doing the bare minimum!
        
        So Seymour is gifted a seat. Other than that:
        – fail
        – fail
        – fail
        – fail
        
        He’s left as the twitching corpse of the good idea that used to be Act, abandoned by National and killed by a thousand cuts from the Left.
        
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        September 27, 2017 8:37am
      - tas
        
        @DifferentPerspective, Seymour’s “I can’t afford my house” schtick was a big fail in my book.
        
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        September 27, 2017 8:47am
      - Jimmy
        
        @DP, ACT were only ever won high numbers of votes when their caucus consisted of right-wing former Labour cabinet ministers and farmers.
        
        Both groups knew that social liberal waffle (like euthanasia) simply did not win votes, and they avoided it accordingly. Richard Prebble was one of the most vocal defenders of royal honours!
        
        ACT are doomed under idiots like Seymour because he thinks that middle-class and rich NZers are energised by social liberalism – we are not!
        
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        September 27, 2017 8:49am
      - Gruffydd
        
        jimmy mate
        It always cracks me up when social conservatives think there is no support for right wing social liberalism in NZ .
        The reason?
        They are posting this opinion on a right wing social liberal blog .
        
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        September 27, 2017 9:00am
      - Nigel Kearney
        
        A small party can only get traction on a small number of issues. Those should be a change from the status quo, reasonably popular, and meaty enough to be more than just niche issues.
        
        Back when ACT was doing ok, it was zero tolerance for crime, one law for all, and a tax cut for every worker. I would have replaced the first one with welfare reform but they were pretty good choices.
        
        Now the features generally associated with ACT are euthanasia, the super city, a young guy who seems ok but a bit goofy, and a bunch of detailed stuff that voters can’t be bothered trying to understand.
        
        Not quite the same, is it?
        
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        September 27, 2017 9:09am
      - DifferentPerspective
        
        You nailed it Nigel
        
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        September 27, 2017 11:01am
      - Scott
        
        Yes I like the free market policies of Act. However the socially liberal policies such as euthanasia are repellent to many.
        A free market democracy with a small government requires virtuous people. Without citizens who have sound morals then more and more government intervention and welfare is needed.
        Act needs to embrace strong families and hard working citizens who look after themselves and don’t require government handouts.
        
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        September 27, 2017 11:29am
      - cmm
        
        Nigel: If you are a small party you necessarily limit your interest areas to a few areas, then they have to align with what the public is currently worried about otherwise you fall out of relevance.
        
        Act did really well when crime was a hot-button issue.
        
        But this year the big issues people cared about were the economy followed by housing. Crime did not feature.
        
        Act was largely silent about the economy and Seymour made a complete tit of himself with housing when he said he could not afford to buy a house on an MP’s salary.
        
        Thus nobody saw he was saying anything relevant.
        
        Act may as well have made their major policy about preserving Amazonian Indian dancing.
        
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        September 27, 2017 4:46pm
    - tas
      
      National are socially liberal enough these days (e.g. 1/3 of their MPs voted for gay marriage). It’s not clear what ACT really brings to the table.
      
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      September 27, 2017 8:46am
      - MickMac
        
        TAS
        Therein you point out the problem Labour has, 1/3rd National MP’s vote for Homosexual Marriage.
        
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        September 27, 2017 9:37am
      - dubya
        
        ACT recently came out in support of interest payments for Teina Pora. Whilst this is Noble cause and I don’t disagree, the ACT of old would have realised it’s the Susan Burdetts who need their advocacy (and the votes that come with that), not the Teina Poras.
        
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        September 27, 2017 9:41am
    - Ross12
      
      I’m sure ACT suffered, at least a bit, because some previous voters went to National to make sure National had a better chance of survival –ie. they were very scared of Labour getting in under JA.
      It wasn’t anything to do with Seymour or their policies.
      
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      September 27, 2017 9:14am
    - krazykiwi
      
      A small party can only get traction on a small number of issues.
      
      I’ve often wondered if parties like ACT should have a policy of not having a policy on [this issue] or [that issue].
      
      The media love to drag the little guys into a mud wrestle over issues that aren’t part of their raison d’être. Just saying ‘We have no policy position on that. Next question please’ might work?
      
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      September 27, 2017 9:21am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      NZ has only known good times from the 90s onwards. That’s a generation of good times.
      
      It will take a recession to bring out the strong men who are willing to make the tough decisions.
      
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      September 27, 2017 9:57am
    - waikatosinger
      
      I agonised over whether to vote for ACT, but in the end I didn’t. The main reason is that it was clear by then that the next government would be picked by Winston, and we all know Winston won’t work with ACT. I thought it more useful to help National get one more seat as that would put them in a stronger position in their negotiations with the wrinkled one.
      
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      September 27, 2017 10:32am
      - Digmen1
        
        If I had been guaranteed that exactly 30,000 people would have voted for Act to get them two seats and a National ally, I would have Party voted for them.
        
        But I kept seeing their very low polling.
        
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        September 27, 2017 10:53am
      - tas
        
        waikatosinger: I actually thought the opposite. I want ACT to cause Winston grief.
        
        I was on the fence and in the end thought “bugger the polls” and voted ACT. Alas, the polls were accurate and my vote amounted to little.
        
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        September 27, 2017 11:02am
  - tas
    
    Yes, the Greens faced a double onslaught and I expect they will recover. I think the biggest threat for them is if they ever actually get into government. Nothing kills minor parties faster than a ministerial post.
    
    I agree that NZF won’t outlast Winston, who is currently 72. 2020 is a real threat to them because they are almost certainly going to be in government this term and their support plunges when they are in government (they landed at 4% in both 1999 and 2008). Peters also lost his electorate.
    
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    September 27, 2017 8:19am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  It was all much simpler under FPP and the aberrations were much more sporadic.
  
  Three times MMP has allowed Winston sole decision-making powers about who shall govern NZ.
  
  That never would’ve happened under FPP.
  
  To paraphrase another Winston
  
  FPP is the worst electoral system, except for all the others.
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:51am
  - chris
    
    FPP doesn’t *always* produce a government with a clear majority / mandate. Just look at the recent UK election as an example.
    
    And I’ve always thought there was a fairly good chance Winston would have held the balance of power in 1996 even if it had been an FPP election, because NZ First won 6 electorate seats.
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:25am
  - tas
    
    FPP has a lot of nice features. It’s simple; it generally sidelines nutjobs; and it usually produces the government that the majority want.
    
    That said, I do like the fact that, under MMP, my vote counts, despite being in a safe seat. And we don’t need to worry about gerrymandering.
    
    I’m not sure what the ideal system is, but both FPP and MMP are pretty good.
    
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    September 27, 2017 10:00am
  - KevOB
    
    That never would’ve happened under FPP
    
    We had a single MP bring down a government. A majority is only a majority while it lasts.
    
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    September 27, 2017 11:23am
- Maxx
  
  I do wonder if there is a benefit in lowering the threshold to 2.5% for getting a party in.
  
  Benefits are you are likely to see a wider range of views and it opens up more options for a Government to be formed post-election (or pre – I think there is merit in saying who you would like to work with) and it could lead to more stable Governments with parties having to work together with more options for the other partners to get support if one of them “misbehaves”.
  
  Disadvantage is more wackos (but they’re also entertaining) and also likely a less stable coalition partner. Probably a lot more work, but I think the benefits of giving options for coalition partners is good.
  
  It was annoying as all hell in the lead up to the election with MSM constantly reporting Winston as the kingmaker. If you could choose between say 2-3 of 5 minor parties to govern with, or even to go accross the house from time to time to get support for a bill, it puts them more on an even keel.
  
  Saying that, it does require all parties (looking at you Greens) to understand MMP and make it work.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:27am
  - Duxton
    
    I think it would be disastrous to reduce the 5% threshold. Any ‘party’ that cannot attract the support of more than 1 voter in 20 does not deserve to be taken seriously.
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:37am
    - Jack5
      
      My understanding is that the 5 per cent threshold was introduced to the German electoral system, on which ours is based, in the changes after World War 2. Germany’s MMP is much more stable than the German proportional electoral system was from World War 1 to 1933.
      
      The goal of introducing the threshold was to help prevent the chaos which bedevilled the German parliament in the years running up to the 1933 Enabling Act, which gave Hitler power to make laws without parliament’s approval.
      
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      September 27, 2017 12:32pm
  - MickMac
    
    3%
    To keep TOP out 🙂
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:38am
  - tas
    
    Lowering the threshold would let all manner of nutjobs in and cause chaos.
    
    My preferred alternative is transferrable party votes. That is, you rank the parties and, if your first preference doesn’t make the cut, your vote goes to your second preference. That eliminates wasted votes so people are more willing to vote for minor parties, but parties still need to attract 5% support to get in.
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:50am
    - Maxx
      
      I’d prefer transferable vote but that isn’t gonna happen.
      
      I guess what I’m trying to say is I would like to see 5-6 VIABLE minor parties – that is not just a seat that is somewhat gifted to them
      
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      September 27, 2017 10:12am
      - tas
        
        Electoral reform isn’t going to happen, period.
        
        I would like minor parties to have a voice, as long as they don’t leave us hanging like Winston is.
        
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        September 27, 2017 10:19am
      - tas
        
        Australia has an interesting compromise: Their lower house has single-member electorates, so it ends up basically being two parties like under FPP. Their upper house has multi-member electorates (states), so it has a whole grab-bag of parties. Unfortunately, their upper house is too powerful, which causes problems. But that might be one way to have the best of both worlds in terms of minor parties.
        
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        September 27, 2017 10:33am
- fluffykiwi
  
  It is a strange thing when a candidate for a party gets a large number of votes, thinking Hayley Holt for the greens in Helensville but fails to get in on their party list. Hayley Holt got 5300 odd votes
  Swarbrick got 2995 odd and Genter got 1850 odd. The system seems flawed at that point.
  I wonder whether people should be voting for the candidate that may best represent their electorate first and then give their party vote to the political party that they wish to govern.
  Sometimes a candidate of your favoured governing party does not have time to represent your electorate. I am thinking of say a Party Leader, or a Minister with a large portfolio. In Rodney we have a current Minister of Defence, gets huge candidate vote but has little time to spend in the electorate pushing his local area’s concerns. Surely the best thing would be to look closely at the candidates no matter which party and vote for the person that can serve the area well and then give your party vote to the Party you wish to actually govern overall.
  In Rodney’s case I would have voted for the local Act Candidate and then Party voted National to be Government.
  I wonder what results we might see then.
  Again STV would be a better way.
  Or maybe another tick box. Which party would you wish your chosen party to go into coalition with.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:37am
  - tas
    
    I would like some kind of “open list” system where voters can override the party’s ranking of candidates.
    
    One option would be to have have the list consist of unsuccessful electorate candidates ordered by how many votes they got. That would put Holt ahead of Swarbrick.
    
    I think there are so many features we’d like in the electoral system that it’s impossible to devise a system to satisfy everyone.
    
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    September 27, 2017 10:06am
Colville

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/97280956/uk-vacuum-clearner-inventor-james-dyson-to-launch-electric-car-by-2020

its sure to suck…..

(ok ok, I know where the door is)
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September 27, 2017 8:04am
- Maxx
  
  In reverse does it blow?
  
  On the bright side, it’d keep the streets clean
  
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  September 27, 2017 10:13am
duggledog

Been bush, but it looks like my prediction held up – Labour stalled and ended up with much less than they thought they’d get.

As I said a couple of weeks back, Labour pissed off too many people. And too many people are doing relatively well for change.
Simple as that. You’re welcome.

Anyone else notice Jacinda didn’t even mention Gayford during her speech on Election Night? How would you feel.

After reading through what I’ve missed – DPF’s post on Jeremy Elwood’s nasty tweet ‘f*** you with a barbed wire dildo’ and the equally revealing tweet by writer Steve Braunias caught my eye. These guys are the tip of the iceberg.

I am really starting to wonder if the governing party has, at best, some kind of masochistic desire for abuse, or at worst a death wish.

Surely National should try curbing the overwhelming hatred spewed onto them so often, by so many avenues of the media – especially those paid for by taxpayer monies.

All they need to do is stop funding them. These plants die if they are not watered. Or if that’s too hard, and National is too gutless, install a board that is – at the very least – centrist.

I mean it’s absurd. They know who their enemies are, and they are clearly influential. Why encourage them?
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September 27, 2017 8:05am
- Colville
  
  duggle, where did you go? any Moose? 🙂
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:06am
- RF
  
  duggledog.
  
  You are so right… both Ardern and her current boyfriend are very self centred and I believe will not last the distance as a couple. In her case it’s all happened so fast and I remember her comments not so long ago that she did not want to be PM and having children was important.
  
  When the election dust settles she will think… WTF just happened ? Get me out of here.
  
  It’s also time National showed some mongrel and confront those nasty bastards on the left who post vile comments. Playing the gentleman does not work as they just step over you.
  
  It would be interesting to see what would happen if someone from the right hit Ardern in the face with a rubber dildo.. the left would implode.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:56am
Pongo

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11926822

Gower is making a fool of himself and for his own sake should just stop before he loses that last bit of credibilty. Doesnt happen often but even his colleagues are getting embarrased by him.
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September 27, 2017 8:06am
- Poppa
  
  It is another case of the media trying to create news rather than reporting it.
  
  I gave up with TV news about 4 years ago & my blood pressure is much better as a result. The TV hasn’t had anything thrown at it either
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:16am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Paddy the gnome and Barely Sober are continuing their crusade of inflaming any differences between National and NZF as they won’t be happy until Labour are the Government.
    They are a disgrace to their profession and it’s pleasing that Winston is calling them out on it.
    
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    September 27, 2017 8:29am
    - simo
      
      Ditto CM…. BS & PG are lefty court jesters from a bygone era. They just sound and look foolish but maybe they have just imbibed too much Marxist chardonnay which explains their irrational behaviour
      
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      September 27, 2017 9:02am
- Keeping Stock
  
  He certainly is. I suspect once the election is over, and he sits down with his managers to evaluate his performance, the feedback will not be glowing.
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:20am
- softail 1450
  
  yes pongo ,I saw him on tv3 this morning actually sucking up to peters ,I guess he doesn’t want to be left out in the cold when peters assumes power.
  
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  September 27, 2017 11:52am
- Left Right and Centre
  
  I just find him tough to look at let alone listen to.
  
  His face looks like it’s stuck inside a tight fitting goldfish bowl. Life’s too short – can’t take it.
  
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  September 28, 2017 3:48am
Happychappy

Great column by Audrey Young on the lies being told on Winston and why he could and would not do what people have said in the upcoming coalition talks. Winston also has taken a swipe at Three News and Paddy Gower on his saying that a insider suggest that the NZ First Leader want to exact utu on National and Steven Joyce for their drive to take his Northern Seat. Winston is not happy with the remarks made by Gower on Three News so it is not before time some has called him out on his Political bullshit.
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September 27, 2017 8:18am
- Poppa
  
  I doubt Winnie is upset at losing his seat, he only gained it from National mid term so it just returned to the status quo. He was simply baby sitting
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:28am
- Colville
  
  Happy.
  The idea that Northland was ever Winstons is laughable.
  Labour threw their candidate under the bus(with the Greens help) so that Winston would win the bi-election against Nationals dud candidate.
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:40am
- AgentBallSack
  
  Northland voters signaled their disappointment with the Government by electing Winnie. It was a “sit up and listen” lesson. After 2 years of an invisible MP they had had enough and went back to their natural leanings at the current election. Now its time for National to listen to the people instead of riding roughshod over us with globalism and UN pleasing.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:14am
- Kimbo
  
  Winston is not happy with the remarks made by Gower on Three News so it is not before time some has called him out on his Political bullshit.
  
  Hmm. I wouldn’t be so sure.
  
  I’ve always had the impression Gower is one of Peters’ go-to guys when he wants to push a leak or ~~fabricate~~ cultivate and publicise a story. Politicians and journalists live in a mutual relationship of contempt, exacerbated by the fact their is a shared need to use the other.
  
  Plus it gives Peters the opportunity to disavow something that may well be true, so if and when he throws National under the bus, it will look like he did it for noble, not ignoble reasons. Is also a back-channel way of signalling to National that he maybe wants Joyce out as Minister of Finance.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:23am
  - Happychappy
    
    Kimbo you could be right with what you say but out of most journalists that I respect for their views is Audrey Young and her column today is a very good read and my comments were based from that.
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:42am
    - Kimbo
      
      Fair enough – and yes, I concur about Audrey Young. With no politicians saying much on the record to journalists, one gets the impression there is a lot of hacks interviewing their keyboards. The All Blacks have been putting up with it for decades! 😉
      
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      September 27, 2017 9:47am
Paulus

I am amused this morning to read how Labour in the name of Davis pleads fealty to Winston and their long term close relationship and that is why he should throw his lot in with them.
Their team dealing with Winston appears to be Taxinderella and Davis – that plus Cullen, call me Sir, in the background is the kiss of death in my opinion.
Whilst Taxinderella can talk I am sure the way she will advertise her wares to him may not find favour with him. He is not fooled by gobbing only facts of her taxes for which she has no idea.
I see Fitzsimons has joined the Greens team – surely their new leader can think for himself – surely.
Cannot comment on National team as nothing reported in the media – usual prejudice.
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September 27, 2017 8:21am
- Maxx
  
  Best that mummy comes in and helps Shaw out. And we all know that when the Greens are asked a question they ask what their position is on it.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:29am
  - sooty
    
    What, mummy the 3rd.
    
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    September 27, 2017 12:22pm
PJ39

National need to play the long game. Reject Peters. Do you want to be the govt for 3 of the next 12 years or 9 of the next 12 years?Whoever hitches up with Peters this time will be turfed out in 2020. Short term pain for long term gain.
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September 27, 2017 8:24am
- Keeping Stock
  
  History suggests you are right PJ. Bolger coalesced with Peters in 1996, was rolled by Shipley, and the Nats were exiled in 1999. Then Helen Clark cut a deal with Peters in 2005 to survive, had to stand him down, and was defeated in 2008.
  
  As much as I would love to see Bill English form a government, cutting a deal with Peters is proven to be risky.
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:33am
  - cmm
    
    Labour and Greens want the ring of power at any cost. They’ll offer Winnie any trinkets he wants.
    
    Hopefully National think longer-term.
    
    Can’t see it working though. How is seasoned and curmudgeonly old Winnie going to keep civil with Jacinda (bugger all experience, half his age) or Chloe Swarbrick (about the same experience as Jacinda but a third of his age) and girly-boy Shaw.
    
    Kids: get off my lawn!
    
    Yes I know Chloe isn’t the Green co-leader yet, but there seem to be forces pushing her forward due to being a Bright Young Thing who has achieved more than anyone else in Greens even though she’s only 24.
    
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    September 27, 2017 8:44am
    - Happychappy
      
      cmm : Do you think they will break Labour Party Policy and a Helen Clark Legacy and return to handing out Knighthoods and ditch their equivalent Honor distinction that they changed when last in government. I ask this because if Winston does want a Knighthood this will be a huge u turn by Jacinda and Labour.
      
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      September 27, 2017 9:33am
      - cmm
        
        Jacinda really needs the ego-rub of a “win” and that win doesn’t happen until she has “Done this”.
        
        Same with Greens: 21 years without having a cabinet position is wearing a bit thin and this is looking like their best chance ever.
        
        They will give Winnie anything, even a period as PM, to make it happen.
        
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        September 27, 2017 10:21am
  - Poppa
    
    It is risky KS but I think Winnie will want to be seen as responsible this time as it will probably be his last gig.
    
    I am very confident he will side with National that is the only way his party could survive in the future. To go with Labour would end in tears & I am sure he won’t want that to be his parting shot
    
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    September 27, 2017 8:48am
    - waikatosinger
      
      If I were Winston I’d make part of my price electoral reform. Agreement on a referendum to get rid of the Maori seats and dropping the 5% threshold as recommended by the electoral commission.
      
      The 5% threshold is the significant thing. It makes it hard for small parties to survive the inevitable drop in support when they go into government. We need small parties so that our larger parties have options to form coalitions.
      
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      September 27, 2017 10:46am
    - Paulus
      
      If Winston goes with Labour then am not sure he will agree to the new legislation to cancel the April Tax cuts, and thereby alienate himself from his Pensioners, whose small weekly increase will be welcomed.
      That of course will stuff Labour’s financial ability by $2 billion. But that of course would allow Taxinderella to put forward more taxes to compensate pleading “he made me do it”.
      
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      September 27, 2017 11:17am
  - Maxx
    
    Wasn’t part of the issue in `96 that his own party split on him over him supporting Nats? I think we see the history of that regularly by Winnie ensuring that there are no strong personalities within to effectively challenge his rule.
    
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    September 27, 2017 1:15pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    But worthwhile, if we are going to lose next time anyway might as well stay in power, we earned it.
    
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    September 27, 2017 3:06pm
- Jimmy
  
  Good point. National would also be hitching their wagon to Winston’s entourage as well – can you imagine that the current crop are any better than Tuariki Delamere, Tuku Morgan, Brendan Horan, Asenati Lole-Taylor, Michael Laws and other idiots that Winston has seen fit for selection?
  
  Maybe National should go into opposition for one term instead of government with such fools. It would ensure another three terms of National atl least!
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:43am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  How about if National plays hardball with Peters and calls his bluff on a coalition with Labour and the Greens.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:58am
MCos

Women allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia
Proof the King doesn’t read the comments on Kiwiblog
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September 27, 2017 8:31am
- I've been to Mecca and you have not!
  
  Big mistake.
  
  In twenty years the Saudis will find they are being f*&#$d over and betrayed by their own equivalent of Jacinda, Turei and Helen KKKlarKKK.
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:39am
  - softail 1450
    
    good for the panel beaters though ,a new Saudi industry to get in on the ground floor.
    
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    September 27, 2017 12:01pm
    - Gabby
      
      And how often have you fallen off your fat girly bike softcock.
      
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      September 27, 2017 12:27pm
  - realityczech
    
    Yep huge mistake. At least they can give their women a beating if they step out of line, unlike here.
    
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    September 27, 2017 12:19pm
    - Happychappy
      
      That’s the substance you were talking about last night, that post shows the joke you are.
      
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      September 27, 2017 12:44pm
      - realityczech
        
        Oh look a self appointed guardian of morality. Just like Graham Capill
        
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        September 27, 2017 10:32pm
      - Left Right and Centre
        
        kea – comparing commenters to sex offenders – not cool. That’s how you’ve been banned before – similar bullshit.
        
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        September 28, 2017 3:54am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Yes indeed MCos. Saudi Arabia is beacon of liberalism and tolerance – surprised you haven’t moved there already.
  
  Look at their fabulous record on LGBT rights.
  
  Please provide a link to your GiveALittle page to fund your emigration to the Kingdom, I’m sure many of us would love to expedite your departure to this socialist nirvana.
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:41am
  - realityczech
    
    Yes and the biggest customer of US arms in the world as a close ally.
    
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    September 27, 2017 12:18pm
Colville

Assuming the Greens go back into opposition again this time because they are lets face it just a sub party of the Labour Party…

What chance Shaw will splinter off and form an actual Green party? Would Nats step aside in a seat to assist?
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September 27, 2017 8:32am
- cmm
  
  If there’s one thing Shaw has clearly demonstrated it is a lack of leadership and balls.
  
  Growing up in a two-mum household he won’t do anything until the females tell him he can.
  
  So if there is a splinter group it will be because a woman pushes for it and Shaw follows.
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:47am
- Peter
  
  Shaw won’t do anything that isn’t in the official Green playbook.
  
  It’s like being led by a shadow.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:08am
  - Lance
    
    More like a sock puppet
    
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    September 27, 2017 10:04am
- peterwn
  
  This sort of thing must be on James’ mind. If I were in his shoes I would be seeking a highly secret chat with Bill to see what could be possible – the objective being Ministerial posts for James and Julie and some realistic policy concessions. However I would ostensibly negotiate with Labour/NZF to see what they had to offer. If I was to be short changed again, I would then seek a mandate (even if from a workable minority) to formally open negotiations with National even if they are unlikely to go anywhere. This would greatly strengthen my bargaining power against Winston. For example, Bill will give us two Ministerial positions – can you match that? In this scenario, James may well be using Bill as a negotiating fall-guy but I doubt Bill would mind too much since Winston’s negotiating position with Bill would be similarly be weakened.
  A cheap bauble for Winston – give him an exclusive Ministerial car with the CR1 plates if need be, Bill could tolerate CR2 (normally the PM is the only one with an exclusive car).
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:13am
  - Colville
    
    The “greens” as they are cannot go to Nats without a membership vote and it just wont get a majority.
    None of the green MPs can splinter off as they are all list scum.
    
    So it needs to be in 2020 not now.
    
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    September 27, 2017 10:57am
    - Flash
      
      I had forgotten that listers can’t desert. No wonder they sit so smugly in their little cave, keeping warm by the fire and doing nothing.
      
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      September 27, 2017 11:42am
    - Maxx
      
      I do believe that they can offer to abstain from confidence votes without going back to the party for permission which they could do in exchange for concessions.
      
      Is it possible to have a minister outside of cabinet without a formal coalition?
      
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      September 27, 2017 1:21pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Does that show respect? Not in my opinion, as for a Knighthood, why not, he has served the country long and hard with the blessing of at least some of the voters.
    If anyone else had served that long they would have gotten a gong. It is no different just because it is Winston, he is a survivor and has had to do what it takes to survive politically, how is that not deserving of respect.
    
    However, Winston in turn has to acknowledge that others too have done what needed to be done for political advancement and survival as well as managing Government well, and by that I mean National, no one much, has governed on the left.
    
    If Winston is a statesman, then he will behave statesman like, if the best interests of the country is indeed what he desires, he will at the earliest opportunity be in touch with National to form a governing block as most New Zealanders voted.
    
    If National do not agree to form a Government with Winston and NZ First, my 2020 vote will be undecided.
    
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    September 27, 2017 7:06pm
oldpark

Just been reading the figures for Liebour,and what “Commie Chic” Comrade Ardern has accomplished. Well fancy this,circa 35% same as David Shearer,another ex Leader of the trade union infested Liebour cabal. He got dumped not long after he appeared in Parliament holding up two dead fish. Most people took that as a sign that his Lie-bour Party stunk.
The new Messiah for Lie-bour “Commie Chic “Comrade Ardern with her poll shattering 35% certainly confirmed that even though she was tipped to lead her cabal into the promised land of ruling NZ,in the image of her heroes, Che Guevara,or Fidel Castro.Or even another dictator called Nickolas Madura, who turned Venezuela in a socialist disaster.
With the huge vote for Bill English and National ,on Saturdays’Election results. NZs are not ready for the type of socialist ambush Lie-bour/Green mafias had planned for our free society.
The vision of “Commie Chic” Comrade Ardern to turn NZ into a Socialist Republic will just have to wait a little bit longer. Hopefully never.
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September 27, 2017 8:32am
- sooty
  
  Cunliffe lost votes and Angry just about rooted them.
  
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  September 27, 2017 10:02am
- RF
  
  oldpark.. it is so amusing that good old Shearer was polling at 35% a few years ago. For some reason this was not good enough for Labour so they dumped him. It went down hill after that only because of the next two replacements were useless, the last being Little who dropped them to 24.
  
  They talk about Ardern lifting them to the dizzy heights of 35 but all she has done is to return them to Shearers polling figure.
  
  The expression “lipstick on a pig” is so true as the same old crew is still lurking in the background plotting away.
  
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  September 27, 2017 10:21am
- Viking2
  
  3 more years and the Nats will have done it for her. 😆
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:09pm
Albert_Ross

Hypothesis.

What would Parliament look like if every single voter party-voted National and local-voted Labour?
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September 27, 2017 8:59am
- Rich Prick
  
  Overhung by infinity.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:12am
billmurray

The Greens have been told to sit still in the back room whilst she talks to Winnie , Taxinda.
“Yes” your Lowness, they replied.
We obey you.
We hail you.
Do we get tea and bickies?.
NO.
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September 27, 2017 9:03am
- cmm
  
  It’s really silly. They all need eachother and they all need to cooperate.
  
  Sure, Jacinda represents the biggest party in the mix, but the Greens and Winnie need to get on as much as Labour and Winnie.
  
  Winnie is just going to tell Jacinda to get stuffed. He will deal with the Greens if he wants to. Jacinda won’t stop him.
  
  If Shaw has just handed over negotiation rights to Jacinda then he’s more of a wimp than I thought he was.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:19am
- RF
  
  They however are allowed to lick Arderns shoes whilst the negotiations are ongoing.
  
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  September 27, 2017 11:27am
Rich Prick

I’m finding the media’s (and the left’s) repetition of the myth that we have a “vote for change” on our hands annoying. The Greens were halved, Labour is 13 seats behind National, NZF went from 11 seats to 9 and Winston lost Northland. How is that a vote for change, other than being wishful thinking?
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September 27, 2017 9:04am
- Rich Prick
  
  I’ve just been reminded that having lost the election, the media is now attempting to win the coalition talks. That makes sense.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:48am
- mandk
  
  I think we did have a vote for change.
  
  But it certainly wasn’t for the socialist alternative.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:52am
oldpark

Wellingtons’ so called grid locked traffic especially traffic coming from the eastern suburbs.Especially the huge round-a-bout at Basin Reserve.
Some time ago a solution was found to build a flyover bypass to solve the massive traffic congestion around that area. It also would solve the traffic problems for all points North.
National Government made a Billion Dollars available to do the work.
It was not to be, protesters took the protest to the courts and won a victory to make sure the Flyover would not happen.
The decision was celebrated by Wellingtons City Lie-bour/Green partys’ infested Council. Started with the guy called Justin Lester . Next we had Annette King and Grant Robertson both Lie-bour MPs.They acclaimed it as something special a great result.
Seems with the huge up surge in the Polls for the electoral seats for both MPs by their voters ,the traffic problems and grid locks at Mt Victoria Tunnel and overall Wellingtons’ Traffic “problems”are no longer Traffic problems.
The increase in Wellingtons Labour controlled electorates, have proven that their supporters are happy to suck up petrol and diesel fumes in the Mt Victoria tunnel,and gambling their health to support an ideology that is about their Electoral MPs.and their Party sycophants.
Case of where ignorance is bliss ,it is folly to be wise.
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September 27, 2017 9:04am
- big bruv
  
  Oldpark
  
  Given that NZ cricket are not interested in the longer form of the game then the Basin reserve is no longer needed. It is time to get rid of it.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:13am
- Left Right and Centre
  
  yeah – well, Wellington’s just a dumb place to try and put large numbers of people and traffic.
  
  Here in Chch there’s none of that bullshit. You want to go to the fuckin airport – you just go there on a big arse four lane road. No two lane tunnels or other shit to worry about.
  
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  September 28, 2017 4:03am
big bruv

I note that David White and NZ cricket are close to achieving their aim of getting rid of red ball cricket. It seems they have skillfully negotiated NZ’s test schedule down to a pointless level of four tests over the next eighteen months. I’m sure that with a little more effort they can completely do away with the five day game.
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September 27, 2017 9:12am
- AgentBallSack
  
  That’s a pity because test cricket is the best sort of cricket. But then you need players who aren’t bashers. ODI cricket is enjoyable but I can’t be bothered watching it at the stadium. Twenty20 is a waste of time.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:20am
- Jimmy
  
  I agree with your sentiment (I too, believe that 5 day test matches are the pure form of the game, the pinnacle), but I think you are being a bit harsh on Mr White.
  
  Thanks to incredibly corrupt Indian BCCI, inept England and stupid Australian cricket boards, test cricket is ruinously expensive for nations like NZ, W Indies, Sri Lanka and even South Africa. NZC have responded in the only way possible – two test match series subsidised by the more profitable forms of the game during each tour.
  
  From March 2017 to October 2018, Kane Williamson will play 5 test matches over 18 months, while Joe Root (his only rival in the world for title of best batsman) will play 21 tests. It isn’t fair or good enough, but this is forced on us by the Big Three.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:22am
  - dime
    
    “From March 2017 to October 2018, Kane Williamson will play 5 test matches over 18 months, while Joe Root (his only rival in the world for title of best batsman) will play 21 tests. It isn’t fair or good enough, but this is forced on us by the Big Three.”
    
    thats fucking sad.
    
    aussie captain isnt bad btw
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:25am
  - big bruv
    
    Jimmy
    
    I might agree with you if White pushed for more tests when the NZ side (which I will no longer support) are playing overseas.
    Also, White is hell bent on reducing the number of first class games in NZ and has talked about making all Hawke cup cricket either 50 over or that horrendous T20 shit.
    NZC do not see a future for the red ball version of the game, they (NZC) are going to do to test cricket what the NZRU has done to the NPC and the Ranfurly shield.
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:29am
    - Jimmy
      
      I don’t know anything about the proposed domestic changes, but what I do know is that NZC have committed to international test cricket, but the only way to do that is to subsidise that with the other forms of the game which are regrettably more profitable.
      
      Have you watched “Death of a Gentleman”, now on Netflix? It shows just how responsible Aus, England and especially India are for ruining test cricket.
      
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      September 27, 2017 10:04am
  - Poppa
    
    Yes the big three are basically running around playing each other because that is lining their pockets.
    
    We have very little say in what happens & can only pick up crumbs each year with the odd pinup tour by one of the 3 on an occasional basis
    
    It is a real shame that it is happening like this but I don’t see it changing anytime soon
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:31am
- dime
  
  jesus, really? 4 tests?? surely there are more to be announced?
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:24am
  - big bruv
    
    Dime
    
    Nope, four it is. There were five planned but White got rid of one of those in favour of more T20 and ODI crap.
    It does have one silver lining though, Wellington’s congestion can now be eased by doing away with the Basin Reserve. If there is no five day cricket the Basin is not needed.
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:30am
  - Kimbo
    
    Nope. The 2017-18 summer is locked in. Two tests against the Windies before Xmas, and 2 against England in the New Year. So for the 18 months between March 2017 against South Africa, to September 2018 (I think we go to Bangladesh) that is only 4 tests
    
    And with the World Cup in 2019, the 2018-19 season will likely put the stress ODIs then too in preparation for the big show. Is bloody sad.
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:33am
    - Scott
      
      I enjoy test cricket at the Basin. The Boxing day test was very good and well attended. A real shame the powers that be did away with it.
      
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      September 27, 2017 1:14pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  The only time they get a dollar from me is when there is a test at the Basin. Cricket is the bowler trying to take wickets and the batsman trying to survive and accumulate runs. Anything else is just mindless crap.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:38am
  - Kimbo
    
    But not if India is touring here. It’s that tour, or more precisely the high sale price of the TV rights to the Indian domestic TV market that NZ Cricket can command that keeps them afloat.
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:40am
flipper

Posted earlier this morning in the discussion on 2008 v 2017 prelim results, BUT relevant to the discussion here:

flipper
Look, the f”ing MSM had already installed Jacindageddon as Prime Minister, perhaps none more so than Gower/Garner. The election night results were akin to Clinton. Now their aim is to grasp at any straw to make that happen. I think that both Kiwiblog and WOHB have been remarkably restrained in their speculation. But I believe that both know that Peters is the best representation of Machiavelli in New Zealand politics.
With Winston [edit: the hidden objective(s), that is ] it will be all about two things:

1. Baubles and ego for Winston
and
2. Policy planks that give him a political legacy.

All the talk about his caucus and board is crap. Peters is NZF ….lock, stock and barrel. Period!
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September 27, 2017 9:16am
- Rich Prick
  
  And
  3. Which party will let him join the roll of former Prime Ministers – even if he’s it for just a year.
  
  That’s his ultimate bauble, remember, he’s “been there, done that” with deputy PM.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:23am
  - kevn
    
    RP.. would a knighthood suffice?
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:28am
    - MickMac
      
      and!
      
      3 0
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      September 27, 2017 9:47am
      - sooty
        
        Sorry Ihit report!
        
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        September 27, 2017 10:06am
  - waikatogirl
    
    It could only end in tears If Winnie’s ultimate bottom line in negotiations is to be PM. He is too much of a loose cannon.
    
    Let it be with the left.
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:32am
Manolo

The corrupt woman is going crazy:
http://freebeacon.com/politics/clinton-compares-trump-putin-hopefully-hasnt-ordered-killing/

Hillary Clinton said Monday on Bloomberg News that President Donald Trump has “tendencies toward authoritarianism,” adding that she hopes he has not “ordered the killing of people and journalists” as Russian President Vladimir Putin has been accused of doing.
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September 27, 2017 9:28am
- AgentBallSack
  
  …adding that she hopes he has not “ordered the killing of people and journalists
  
  That’s rather ironic.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:52am
- Fletch
  
  TBH I wish she would go away and STFU. No one likes or wants her and the media should leave her be. She lost. You don’t see the media asking Mitt Romney about every single thing. Why should they? He didn’t win, either.
  
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  September 27, 2017 11:30am
- dime
  
  that sociopath always accuses people of doing what she has done or is doing
  
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  September 27, 2017 12:46pm
  - Swifty
    
    NZ Labour too – I’ve noticed it for years…
    
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    September 27, 2017 12:52pm
  - Scott
    
    Indeed. Everyone knows “The house of cards” was based on the Clinton’s. Though I think the body count was about right, I’ve always wondered if there were enough “bimbo eruptions” to be totally true to life ?
    
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    September 27, 2017 1:16pm
Maxx

Yet another reason why having a simple tax system is good and why introducing a CGT with exclusions for this and that and what will and won’t count is not good.

This swas specifically around SMSF’s in AU. An audit has revealed CGT errors in 70% of audits.

https://www.accountantsdaily.com.au/smsf/10844-cgt-errors-wreak-havoc-this-tax-time?utm_source=Accountants%20Daily&utm_campaign=25_09_17&utm_medium=email&utm_content=1
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September 27, 2017 9:33am
Tauhei Notts

I had a look at the statistics and am now convinced that the Maori Party is dead, deceased, gone.
I took the party vote; National plus NZ First. It exceeded the Maori Party party vote in Hauraki, Ikaroa Rawhiti, Tamaki Makarau, Tokerau and Te Tai Tonga.
When their own people won’t vote for a racist party, that party has two shows; my show and no show.
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September 27, 2017 9:41am
- mandk
  
  I’m not so sure that the Maori Party is dead.
  
  Even if the seven Maori electorate MPs don’t get fed up with simply being lobby fodder for Labour and defect, Maori electors might eventually recognise that what one commentator (was it Tariana Turia?) said about Maori electors acting like battered wives is true.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:48am
  - AgentBallSack
    
    It was the hateful racist Marama Fox.
    The one that supports the PLA & Hamas.
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:54am
    - Kimbo
      
      You think Maori electorate voters care about that? Would have about as much resonance as whether Marama Fox opposes the 1981 Springbok tour, the divine right of kings, or the Seleucids instead of the Ptolemaic dynasty! 😉
      
      But ok, you are talking about her “vibe” and that typifies it. Um, I would have thought opposing “colonial oppressors” would go down well with some Maori electorate voters. Has since the Foreshore & Seabed Act! But then that was half a generation ago, and people forget, or young voters never knew. And Tamati Coffey is “with it” compared to Flavell! 😉
      
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      September 27, 2017 9:58am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I believe you have confused the 2 Maramas
      
      Marama Davidson (Green MP) is the one who has shown active support for pro-Palestinian groups.
      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/85020524/green-mp-marama-davidson-detained-by-israeli-authorities-on-boat-in-international-waters–reports
      
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      September 27, 2017 11:23am
      - AgentBallSack
        
        Oooops my bad, thanks Maggie.
        Maybe I need that second coffee!
        
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        September 27, 2017 11:37am
      - Kimbo
        
        Ah, that’s it! Sorry, ABS. I know Marama Fox can be a bit abrasive, but no, she ain’t the toxic Marama Davidson!
        
        Will be interesting to see whom the Greens choose as their female co-leader:
        
        Julie Anne Genter who has broad voter appeal among the middle class and, no matter what you think of her policy, presents them well.
        
        …or Davidson. I’m picking they will shoot themselves in the foot again and go for the loud, smug, self-righteous, no-compromise radical leftie! 😉
        
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        September 27, 2017 11:42am
  - Maxx
    
    All depends on whether the Labour Party are ineffective with the seats they have gained there. Chances are they’ll blow it and give them an inroad.
    
    The other door open is Labour do get in and inact the water “royalty” with specific wording saying that Maori cannot claim it. Seabed and Foreshore all over again. That’ll be their lightening rod.
    
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    September 27, 2017 10:17am
- Manolo
  
  Let us hope the racist Maori Party remains dead and buried forever.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:51am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    And we should throw the Maori seats in after them before piling the dirt on top.
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:59am
duggledog

Colville

Not moose, think fins, scales!

It was quite good to get away. You still can in New Zealand.

Flipper: ‘The f”ing MSM had already installed Jacindageddon as Prime Minister…’

Indeed, this term, (should National govern) I really would like to understand why there is still this resigned acceptance by them of a virulent anti-National RNZ and (clearly) NZ On Air, Film Commission etc.

It’s pointless to blame independently owned outlets such as TV3 – even though the faceless programmers have seen fit to broadcast Bryan Bruce’s designed-to-disgust ‘documentaries’ right before a GE, twice – or Stuff, Herald etc because they are free to publish what they like.

They can’t be stopped.

But the taxpayer funded organs listed above can.

This time it’s utterly critical to crush the relentless anti-prosperity, anti-everything brigade. They nearly got their desired result. They will already be working on 2020.
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September 27, 2017 9:44am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  The problem is that politicians as a class need means for publicising themselves, but listeners are generally disinterested, so they subsidise these outlets to ensure they have an available audience.
  
  I would suggest that a sensible option would be to legislatively require creation of equally funded right-wing biased station/content stream for subsided media outlets to provide counter-balance to the steady push to the left by intolerant lefties in media who refuse to hire or work with righties (O’Sullivans Law; “All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing”). And let them compete for listeners/viewers on a level footing. The market wants right wing (as we can see from talk-back) but subsidised media are insulated/insular and won’t cater to that demand.
  
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  September 27, 2017 10:59am
- Colville
  
  you were hunting trout?
  What caliber spinner do you use?
  I like my 300 short mag, but parallax error is tricky thru the scope!
  🙂
  
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  September 27, 2017 11:01am
  - Komata
    
    Colville
    
    Nah, too complex. All you need is a stick, waders and a fast getaway vehicle; works most times… (just saying)
    
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    September 27, 2017 11:47am
kowtow

You could call it the diversity dividend.And they’re all connected by the religion of peace.

‘Matimba was part of a terror network, that sprang up in Manchester, that included Jamal al-Harith, a former detainee at Guantanamo Bay who received £1 million in compensation from the Government in a controversial out-of-court settlement.

Al-Harith died fighting for Isil, blowing himself up in a suicide attack in Mosul earlier this year.’

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/26/calls-public-inquiry-whether-isil-ringleader-received-taxpayers/
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September 27, 2017 9:50am
Happychappy

I wonder what the ratepayer in Auckland will be thinking with their Mayor and ex Labour Leader employing retiring MP’s from the Labour Party with Annette King the latest MP to score a job at the Council.
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September 27, 2017 9:50am
- AgentBallSack
  
  Ratepayers:
  “At least the desk in Ngati Whatua room is clean”
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:55am
- Prince
  
  Bludgers gonna bludge.
  
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  September 27, 2017 10:09am
Muttonbird

So 2000 people like the thought of a Nat/Greens coalition. Drawing from the DPF book of how-to-use-stats-meaninglessly, that’s 0.04% of Kiwis support the the idea, and 96.96% of Kiwis don’t.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/09/thousands-sign-petition-urging-national-to-push-for-coalition-with-greens.html
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September 27, 2017 10:06am
- SPC
  
  Try and post to the Dominion Post editorial comments questioning their advocacy for the Greens to consider National, and expect to get censored.
  
  The middle class media darlings like the idea of the Greens selling out the underclass. Go figure.
  
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  September 27, 2017 10:22am
  - SPC
    
    And the irony I was one Green Party voter who posted here pre-election that a National Green coalition was not out of the question. But given the process the Greens use of getting party member support – it would have to be a better policy win deal than from any other coalition government available.
    
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    September 27, 2017 10:25am
  - Peter
    
    The environment and left wing social issues are no more linked than the environment and centrist issues. The Greens attempt to conflate the two is fooling very few people, mostly themselves.
    
    Their actions tell us that socialism is far more important than the environment. They can squawk and misdirect all they like – it is on their actions they will be judged.
    
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    September 27, 2017 11:14am
    - SPC
      
      Sustainability is not a left wing issue.
      
      That the majority are deluded about that does not change this fact.
      
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      September 27, 2017 11:18am
      - Peter
        
        Yes, “sustainability” is a nonsense political term. Everyone wants life to be sustainable – from ACT to Mana –
        and it is.
        
        Always has been – or we wouldn’t be here, nor would we work for a future.
        
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        September 27, 2017 11:20am
    - Muttonbird
      
      Environmental and social consciousness are linked because neither are important to right wing governments. In NZ we’ve seen under the recent National government increasing inequality and hardship, and a deterioration of the environment while businesses, asset owners, and farmers have benefitted.
      
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      September 27, 2017 11:45am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Since ztev is away, you are a clear leader for the Crown.
        Muttonbird- Kiwiblogs Biggest Liar
        
        8 2
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        September 27, 2017 1:16pm
      - Peter
        
        Environmental and social consciousness are linked because neither are important to right wing governments
        
        They are important to right-wing (well, there is no right-wing governments in NZ, merely third-way centerist) governments, but you still miss the point.
        
        You can have environmental concerns and remedies that have nothing to do with inequality, hardship and farmers.
        
        For example, many urban waterways are polluted. What is your solution to this? Sitting in opposition?
        
        Even if you believe what you say about “right wing governments”, isn’t being part of government, in order to influence environmental concerns, a better option?
        
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        September 27, 2017 1:48pm
big bruv

The best thing that the Nat’s could do in my opinion is go public with what they have offered Winston. Tell the media this is in the interest of democracy and lay out their offer. Then back away, saying it’s a case of take it or leave it Winston.
All they (the Nat’s) are doing at the moment is shredding their credibility and pandering to the ego of a man who still owes the tax payer $158k.
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September 27, 2017 10:23am
Digmen1

Apparantly in Germany with their MMP, people know which way each party will go.
I have always been annoyed that Winston never says which way he want to go in advance.
I am also annoyed that so many New Zealanders get sucked in by his antics every election.

He is just a one man band and has NEVER been a team player. Even when playing rugby at school.
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September 27, 2017 10:59am
- big bruv
  
  I bet the prick played on the wing and never got his hair messed up.
  
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  September 27, 2017 11:03am
  - Kimbo
    
    Yes, Peters was a wing for Auckland University. Around the same era as Graham Thorne…so likely no, Peters’ wouldn’t have messed up his hair as Thorne at centre would never have passed him the ball! 😉
    
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    September 27, 2017 11:09am
    - Kimbo
      
      But on second thought, if he was playing against Ponsonby – who admittedly found new ways in the late 60s/early 70s to miss out on winning the Gallaher Shield despite having the best teams in the Auckland senior club competition (including Malcolm Dick, and Bryan and Ken Williams on the wings in that era)
      
      – then Peters would have messed his hair up having to tackle. Or at least be seen to try and tackle. Given Peters’ political skills, I’m guessing it was the latter. 😉
      
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      September 27, 2017 11:25am
    - RF
      
      Thorne… Thorne… now where have I heard that name. Ah yes. Now I remember.
      
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      September 27, 2017 11:40am
      - Kimbo
        
        …like Peters, an MP as a result of the 1990 election – and in the same National Party caucus – but due to circumstances were gone from it by the next one?
        
        Yeah, that must have been it. 😉
        
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        September 27, 2017 11:46am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Winston isn’t the problem.
  
  MMP is the problem. Winston is merely a symptom.
  
  If a system allows the same utterly retarded outcomes THREE TIMES in eight elections, then the system is the real problem.
  
  We voted to keep MMP. We voted to keep on having Winston deciding the government for us.
  Blame anyone who voted to retain MMP.
  
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  September 27, 2017 11:06am
  - AgentBallSack
    
    And blame NZ First voters who essentially gave Winston their blank ballot papers and said “You decide for us”
    
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    September 27, 2017 11:40am
SPC

Kaiser Wilhelm and POTUS Donald amateurs at large running amok.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11926882
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September 27, 2017 11:10am
Hugh Pavletich

Poll: Which governing arrangement would you most like to see? … Stuff / Fairfax NZ

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/97178666/poll-which-governing-arrangement-would-you-most-like-to-
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September 27, 2017 11:13am
- Rich Prick
  
  I’m encouraged by 60% preferring a National led coalition, but my, isn’t that format misleading suggesting a Labour led coalition is the most popular.
  
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  September 27, 2017 11:40am
  - Anne Glen Eden
    
    Of course it’s misleading -concentrating the Labour-led option into one while fragmenting the National option into smaller groups.
    
    It’s Stuff. Everything they print is misleading. They ‘re pure social engineers – the media wing of the liberal, left, globalists – which most of the country are not.
    
    As you say, 60% of the country want a National-led government. You can’t get anything clearer in either of their polls – which is why they’re largely now hidden.
    
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    September 27, 2017 11:55am
  - Happychappy
    
    I just voted on it for a second time so You would have to be pretty naive to believe it.
    
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    September 27, 2017 2:07pm
- MrTips
  
  Hey Hugh
  You have a fan on here. Penny’s looking for someone to put her up while she gathers a shekel to pay her rates.
  I suggested you’d be perfect
  No thanks necessary
  
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  September 27, 2017 12:01pm
Manolo

It is a waste of time: the communist Greens will never dare to do it.
http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/thousands-sign-petition-calling-for-national-greens-coalition/ar-AAsuXzi?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=mailsignout
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September 27, 2017 11:17am
- SPC
  
  At this point we have National and Green saying that the other has to phone call them before there will be anything to talk about.
  
  And neither will do it, unless there is a Labour-NZ First agreement that the Greens can block. The Green leader Shaw, if they have been taken for granted, and otherwise, National’s English.
  
  They will both kick to touch till then, however much the media wished there was an alternative to NZ First for National.
  
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  September 27, 2017 11:22am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  They’re mad if they don’t. It the only way they’ll get any long-term influence.
  But then I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t consider it, because they are mad.
  
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  September 27, 2017 12:01pm
- Anne Glen Eden
  
  That, of course, is one of the reasons climate change sceptics thrive – and I can’t disagree with them.
  
  The specific group claiming to ‘care’ about the environment and climate change so passionately is completely happy to do absolutely nothing but whinge rather than give up their rabid Red desire for power.
  
  There really isn’t anything else to say. Either they believe National is doing okay on its own and their own position is just convenient posturing – or they don’t give a damn about it but it’s a convenient plank to acquire power by means of the gullible in pursuit of the rest of their agenda.
  
  Anyone seriously concerned about the environment and climate change, as a first priority, would take any opportunity to impact the government from within. If the ‘Greens’ don’t care about it, why should anyone else? They talk a lot but don’t ‘walk it’.
  
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  September 27, 2017 12:09pm
oldgolfer

The media has excelled itself in its stupidity in recent days as it speculates, cajoles, moans and tries to tease out information about possible coalition arrangements.
The formation of a government, of course, is big news, but what we have been presented with is drivel dressed as news.
Some of it, as Mr Gower is finding out, is embarrassing.
But I’ll bet half of next week’s pay, it won’t stop anytime soon.
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September 27, 2017 11:57am
Surely Knott

Stuff ran an article on Lynlie Beazley who only had $25 a week for food. Today they run a new article and the reason she can’t get a job is she has over 30 convictions including her first stint in jail as a young nursing student for aggravated robbery. I see that Fairfax media is advertising a part-time receptionist role on their website. Have they considered Lynlie for the job?
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September 27, 2017 12:00pm
- oldgolfer
  
  Be perfect, and she has a profile.
  
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  September 27, 2017 12:15pm
- Swifty
  
  Thanks for this – again this is why these articles are useless; they always leave too much out.
  
  Not at all surprised that this has come out today – being out of work, broke, with kids, in your 40s, inevitably there’s a couple of decades of bad decisions that has led to such a point.
  
  If this woman has genuinely turned her life around, good on her and I wish her all the best finding good work to support her and her children in the future.
  
  If, though, this has been a media beat up to win sympathy for Labour, the Greens, or put pressure on National either to show how heartless they are or to lift benefits etc – then I’m sorry it has failed miserably. Life decisions have consequences and this woman is clearly experiencing hers.
  
  For those interested:
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/western-leader/97263431/auckland-woman-living-on-less-than-minimum-wage-cant-find-work
  
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  September 27, 2017 12:24pm
  - Longknives
    
    A ‘Family Tragedy’ caused her to go on a Crime Spree (including an Aggravated Robbery)??
    
    But yeah- There was a few of us who called this correctly. That gushing Stuff article just didn’t add up.
    
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    September 27, 2017 12:39pm
  - cmm
    
    She’s still pulling the victim card so she clearly has not taken full responsibility for her life.
    
    32 convictions in 16 years even though she was inside for some of that. But she’s gone straight now – honest.
    
    Journalists clearly don’t do much fact checking. According to stuff:
    * First conviction was in 1994.
    * Her first crime when she was 25.
    * She’s now 41.
    So that means it must be 2010???
    
    More likely:
    * First conviction in 1994 (when she was 18).
    * First incarceration was in 2001 at 25 when she was a nurse.
    * She is now 41 with 32 convictions to her name.
    
    14 1
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    September 27, 2017 12:54pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      That’s 1.4 convictions every year for 23 years straight, including her time banged up. That’s an awful lot of “family tragedies”. I think we can safely call bullshit on that excuse. The woman is a one person crime-wave.
      
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      September 27, 2017 1:06pm
      - fluffykiwi
        
        For which the taxpayer pays and will continue to pay. This individual I fear is of no use to anyone, if she has children she is not much use as a role model either.
        
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        September 27, 2017 1:28pm
    - Gabby
      
      Journalists clearly don’t do much fact checking. According to stuff:
      
      That’s hardly contradictory bullshit at all cmmiebokkie.
      
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      September 27, 2017 2:05pm
- fluffykiwi
  
  She probably doesn’t speak Maori, which is possibly essential so you can say Kia ora when you answer the phone.
  
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  September 27, 2017 1:30pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Rapper raising funds to check whether the Earth is flat.
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-41399164

Some proponents of the Flat Earth theory claim NASA employees guard the edge of the world to prevent people falling off.

My goodness, I just thought they were the local Mongrel Mob chaps taking in the view.
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September 27, 2017 12:20pm
- Kimbo
  
  My friend – an intelligent and successful guy, albeit a maverick – now believes the earth is flat.
  
  At the beginning of the process we agreed that you can never disprove a negative and/or plot theory such as “Nasa is lying to us”, so measuring curvature was the “black swan”/falsifiability test (as per Karl Popper). So he keeps on doing experiments measuring the supposed drop off of the earth, and, according to the calculations and google map distances, he should not be able to see as much of the wharf on which the Devonport ferry terminal rests from Te Atatu Peninsula if we are on a globe. Or at least one the size the earth is meant to be.
  
  http://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve-calc/index.html?d0=63.634&h0=3.5&unit=metric
  
  Most odd. He must be doing something wrong.
  
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  September 27, 2017 12:27pm
  - Gabby
    
    Where does he reckon the edge is?
    
    3 1
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    September 27, 2017 2:06pm
    - Kimbo
      
      https://wiki.tfes.org/images/4/43/Map.png
      
      All around the flat disc earth is a giant ice wall we have mistakenly been advised/deliberately misled is Antarctica. So there is no South Pole.
      
      The Arctic is in the centre of the flat earth, and remains frozen as the sun does not circle near it, nor the ice wall around the edge. Hence the plot that Nasa is stopping people visiting Antarctica to prove it.
      
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      September 27, 2017 2:33pm
      - Kimbo
        
        …and as per the first chapter of the book of Genesis (and the Noahic flood narrative of chapter 6 to 8), the flat disc earth is overlaid by a solid polished metal dome, which holds back “the waters above”. The sun and moon (much smaller and closer than we have been misadvised/misled to believe) circle around about halfway from the centre, adjusting their orbits to give us our seasons.
        
        My friend is a Christian, but he came to a flat earth belief because he could not observe curvature (.e., tall objects on the distant horizon over unbroken water) “disappearing” under the horizon as “ballist” (yes! they use that term 😉
        ) science teaches it should at the distances it should. However, since then he has had the “scales fall from his eyes” and now reads and understands what the Bible’s cosmology of the “the heavens and the earth” said and meant to its original Ancient Near Eastern recipients. I was telling him years ago that that is how Genesis presents the Universe but now he understands what it was saying.
        
        Oh, yes, and the thing that kicked his search off was President Obama referring to climate-deniers as equivalent to “flat earthers”. He wondered who they were and what and why they believed it…and he is where he is now, unable to see any of the wharf on which the Devonport ferry rests disappear under the horizon across the inner Waitemata Harbour through his long range camera lens (he bought the best on the market to observe it!). 😉
        
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        September 27, 2017 3:01pm
      - SPC
        
        Just refer your friend to the Irish, they know the pot of gold is over the rainbow but they cannot see it – because of curvature of the earth …
        
        4 0
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        September 27, 2017 5:20pm
      - Gabby
        
        So he’s never been in an aeroplane?
        
        1 0
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        September 27, 2017 6:21pm
      - Kimbo
        
        So he’s never been in an aeroplane?
        
        Yes, but not sufficiently high to hit the dome – is presumably about 30,000 metres high – nor in the alleged continent that is known as Antarctica where the edge of the dome meets the ice wall. 😉
        
        But!!…unlike where planes fly over the North Pole as that is the shortest distance for commercial flights, e.g., London to Chicago, they do not fly over the alleged South Pole in the Southern Hemisphere, say from Auckland to Johannesburg, or Sydney to Buenos Aires. Why not? According to my friend and flat earthers…because you can’t as you would have travel a much greater distance around the edge of the flat disc earth. Hence those who know the truth about the earth’s true shape don’t allow planes to fly that route! 😉
        
        Oh, yes. Needless to say, and as the moon is not some 250,000 miles away, of necessity the Apollo landings must have been faked. 😉
        
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        September 27, 2017 7:28pm
  - RF
    
    Kimbo.
    
    If your friend offers you a drink for gods sake do not touch it.
    
    Sounds really dodgy to me.
    
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    September 27, 2017 5:53pm
  - Viking2
    
    the flat disc earth is overlaid by a solid polished metal dome,
    
    A bit like a tinfoil hat then?
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:19pm
- cmm
  
  I can only hope he finds the edge and falls off.
  
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  September 27, 2017 12:55pm
AgentBallSack

realityczech

They had to ban smacking because women get too emotional and can’t control their violence.

It would be okay if men were allow to use reasonable force to encourage correct behaviour from women. That way there would be a measure of control over women.

So I wonder when Kea stopped beating his wife?
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September 27, 2017 12:51pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  What evidence was there that Kea was a male, let alone had a partner/wife?
  
  8 1
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  September 27, 2017 1:56pm
- Gruffydd
  
  It is a troll ABS.
  What she* says has no connection to what it is or believes in .
  The entire purpose of commenting is to generate an emotional reaction from others.
  It was eventually banned from sci blogs for the same behavior.
  
  *Name Marnie
  Maggy can give you more details its her little buddy.
  
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  September 27, 2017 2:14pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    *Name Marnie
    Maggy can give you more details its her little buddy.
    
    That is a lie.
    If anyone can be bothered doing a search on KB for that name, you will usually find Griff linked to the debate in question..
    You could also backtrack from this link given by Lucia Maria
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/09/general_debate_12_september_2013.html/comment-page-3#comment-1200309
    
    I don’t have buddies.
    
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    September 27, 2017 8:52pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      Whatever maggy .
      You know as well as I do who Marnie is .
      Still what do you expect from some one who gets caught repeating absolute rubbish they get from whacko blogs regularly.
      Did you see another piece of rubbish you have linked to has resulted in the source for it being made to issue a retraction.
      If you did not have your issues you would work out you are being feed bullshite .
      Poor wee dear.
      
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      September 27, 2017 10:14pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      And this Maggy dear
      
      chiz
      
      Marni Sheppeard has posted to kiwiblog under the name Kea before, quite a few years ago. Her behaviour on a physics blog earlier this year also confirms it. Another physics blog has publicly accused Sheppeard of being a troll. And statistically – kiwiblog Kea is half-syrian and into mountaineering, Marni has a middle-eastern first name and is also into mountaineering – what are the chances of two such people in the NZ blogosphere?
      
      I also find it hard to believe that a physicist and a woman could be as idiotic as Kea
      
      That’s because she’s a troll
      
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      September 27, 2017 10:24pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        September 12, 2013 10:10pm
        
        0 3
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        September 27, 2017 10:30pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      You know as well as I do who Marnie is .
      
      If you have any evidence that I know who Kea is, post it here on KB.
      
      If you have any evidence that I know anything about someone called Marni(e) apart from what I have read in the KB archives, post it here.
      
      If you have any evidence that I know, have met, have ever contacted anyone called Marni(e), post it here.
      
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      September 27, 2017 10:29pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        Demanding little thing are you not .
        
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        September 27, 2017 10:33pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        So no evidence that I know anything about the stuff you and others were posting about someone called Marni(e) in September 2013.
        
        You may think it is smart to involve 3rd parties in some interaction with me on KB.
        I find it disgusting and an invasion of other people’s privacy.
        
        Still, it’s not my blog.
        
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        September 27, 2017 10:43pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        What evidence was there that Kea was a male, let alone had a partner/wife?
        
        darling you linked to string theory a few months ago claiming it was evidence of kea’s intelligence .
        When I called you and jack shite for abusing this blog for supporting the trolls return under another identity
        remember sweety?
        
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        September 27, 2017 10:48pm
      - realityczech
        
        Cannabis-Induced Bipolar Disorder with Psychotic Features
        A Case Report
        
        Epidemiological studies have shown that as the frequency of cannabis abuse increases, so does the risk for a psychotic disorder such as schizophrenia.1 Studies have also shown that cannabis is the most commonly abused drug among those diagnosed with bipolar disorder.1
        
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        September 27, 2017 10:53pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        you linked to string theory a few months ago claiming it was evidence of kea’s intelligence
        
        I linked to a video which shows Keas pulling strings- as an example of their intelligence.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72208tJ3OjI
        It is based on the paper
        “A case of quick problem solving in birds: string pulling in keas, Nestor notabilis
        http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347206000364
        
        What has that got to do with me being a buddy of Marnie, as you have asserted?
        
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        September 27, 2017 11:16pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        Maggy sweety you are mates of kea/ realty check .
        This is easy proven.
        Same entity.
        Kea is Marni as you linked to.
        Unless there are two peploe in NZ who use the name kea, troll on blogs, are mountaineers and part Syrian. The statistical chance of that would be far greater than this county’s population .
        Hence you are mates with Marni .
        Why don’t you email this exchange to DPF .
        Another strike I am gone for six months dear .
        Go on do it lovey.
        bye bye griff
        I don’t really care.
        Until then every time you post your loony tune rubbish you will get attacked by me if I am online.
        You are nothing but a crank .
        
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        September 28, 2017 12:56am
    - realityczech
      
      Best you not engage with Griffy when he is on one of his drug binges Maggy. You know how nasty and irrational he becomes.
      
      He seems to have an unusual hatred of the charming, graceful and intelligent Kea. This is likely due to him identify with the ugly lumpen and hideous Griffin, which is of course fictitious, just like catastrophic man made climate change.
      
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      September 27, 2017 10:39pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        kea
        google my name lovey
        it has nothing to do with griffins .
        
        maggy dear
        You linked me to a debate on tony hellas blog
        that is not me
        Strikingly when kea returned she was already aware of that link
        either kea was reading this blog daily when she was under a six month ban.
        or she got it from you.
        
        I find it disgusting and an invasion of other people’s privacy.
        
        Dear I think you are a POS
        The reason for this is the number of times you have accused scientist of fraud and dishonesty based on the total bullshit you get from the blogs you follow.
        You have been caught repeating lies many times
        From your link on your New Zealand yesterday
        To the time you claimed a paper talked of a pause or hiatus when the actual wording was a pause or hiatus was not in contention.
        
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        September 27, 2017 11:14pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        You are confused.
        
        I did not link you to a debate on Tony Heller’s blog.
        
        Perhaps you are referring to my posting about Anthony Watt’s blog, where I specifically declared that the Griff on his site could not be you, because that person never indulges in personal abuse.
        
        Here is what I posted:
        
        Gosh, what an extraordinary coincidence..
        
        I read WUWT everyday…
        and I’ve noticed that every now and again a commenter called Griff appears on there.. but I knew it wasn’t KB’s Griff, because this person doesn’t do personal abuse… but sadly he gets some…
        look at the comments some of the posters delivered to WUWT’s Griff.
        https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/09/11/an-open-letter-to-an-alarmist-shill/
        Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2 REPORTSEPTEMBER 16, 2016 10:08PM
        
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        September 27, 2017 11:56pm
Ross12

Interesting analysis of university voting patterns

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/two-campuses-vote-blue-ck-208155
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September 27, 2017 1:16pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Wow!
  So Lincoln with its Department of Environmental Management isn’t a hot-bed of Green Politics and Massey (Wellington) with no Environmental/natural Science courses is.
  Go figure who Greens represent.
  
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  September 27, 2017 2:08pm
  - Ross12
    
    Maggy
    It looks like Wellington is the hot bed for the Greens,
    Both Massey ( Wgt) and Victoria seem to be highest of them all.
    
    6 0
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    September 27, 2017 3:01pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  Er, I’m finding it more than a little concerning that voting data is saved and connected to real identities to determine more than just how the person voted. Are they connecting census data as well?
  
  Surely all that information ought to be kept separate???
  
  1 5
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  September 27, 2017 6:24pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  This worth looking at. It gives the percentage vote per polling booth. South Auckland is interesting as its not over whelmingly red.
  
  https://fogonwater.carto.com/builder/ec6911f6-b509-4723-8a0e-b403f23861a4/embed?state=%7B%22map%22%3A%7B%22ne%22%3A%5B-37.090102870955825%2C174.81376647949222%5D%2C%22sw%22%3A%5B-36.99391549469012%2C175.05992889404297%5D%2C%22center%22%3A%5B-37.04202441635082%2C174.9368476867676%5D%2C%22zoom%22%3A13%7D%7D
  
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  September 27, 2017 7:30pm
Surely Knott

Late Night at Auckland Museum. Russell Brown will be hosting : Invisible Privilege – Confronting Entitlement . Tickets $30. And a special food menu plus beverages will be available for purchase Get your tickets early so you can confront other virtue seeking rich people pontificating on their privilege over nibbles and expensive drinks.
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September 27, 2017 2:02pm
- Rich Prick
  
  $30 to witness a room full of bearded beta males get lectured at by adipositly gifted, perpetually angry social justice types of indeterminate gender? No thanks.
  
  15 0
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  September 27, 2017 2:22pm
  - Manolo
    
    Beta? They look more like omega or tau males to me. Emasculated is a better term. 🙂
    
    12 1
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    September 27, 2017 2:29pm
  - itstricky
    
    $30 to witness a room full of bearded beta males get lectured at
    
    Quite right. Why would you if you can come here and get lectured at for free?
    
    3 10
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    September 27, 2017 2:42pm
- realityczech
  
  Oh what a wank fest that will be. I might turn up and get drunk and disorderly until they throw me out. Then run to the media claiming I was victimised for being a minority. I can dream up half a dozen sub-sets I fall into !
  
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  September 27, 2017 10:44pm
Dafixeruppa

Apologies if this has already been posted, but Oh the irony…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/96343873/worried-about-fake-news-us-too

Stuff editor says that he is worried about fake news too….
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September 27, 2017 2:18pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  -us too
  
  I think that Stuff editor has more than fake news to worry about…
  He should check out some basic grammar and learn when to use we and when to use us.
  
  10 0
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  September 27, 2017 2:49pm
- Anne Glen Eden
  
  Irony doesn’t begin to cover it.
  
  That anyone can maintain such barefaced lies in the face of their own obvious and continuous bias and misinformation is breathtaking.
  
  You just have to hope they don’t actually believe their own statements because if they do, they are actually unwell and need serious help. However, I’m not sure the alternative is preferable – outright committed and continuing, willing corruption of ‘news’ generally and journalism as a profession.
  
  But then, what can you say about any of them? Patrick Gower tells Winston he has to make up the ‘news’ because Winston won’t give him any facts.
  
  How about Phil Goff stacking the Auckland Council with Labour staff? They’re not even bothering to pretend anymore.
  
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  September 27, 2017 2:49pm
  - sooty
    
    I bet they do not pay for their own travel and accomodation while they are in town.
    
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    September 27, 2017 3:02pm
cha

Bludgers gonna bludge.

Council ratepayers and iwi have footed the bill to clean up New Zealand’s waterways to the tune of $94 million under the Government’s Freshwater Improvement Fund in 2017, dwarfing the agricultural industry’s direct contribution of just over $1 million.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/ratepayers-dwarf-farming-industry-93-million-in-funds-given-clean-up-nzs-fresh-water-2017
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September 27, 2017 2:32pm
- itstricky
  
  I know what’ll help. The CEO of Fonterra has a spare… …oh… I dunno … let’s say … $6.9mill to contribute.
  
  5 14
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  September 27, 2017 2:38pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    CEOs make an enormous difference to the profitablity and development of businesses. You want the best available and it is worth paying whatever is necessary to get the best. Fonterra has $17billion in sales. If the decisions the 8million per year CEO make lift the sales by just .05% over what would have happened with a 1million per year CEO then he has more than paid for himself.
    
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    September 27, 2017 4:41pm
    - Jack5
      
      True as you say, that “CEOs make an enormous difference to the profitablity and development of businesses.”
      
      But talent is widespread, as has been proved time and again by unfortunate loss of groups of leaders.
      
      High salaries for CEOs are also influence by the executive recruiting consultants. The higher the pay, the easier it is for them to ramp up fees.
      
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      September 27, 2017 7:32pm
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      I hate to think what the Chief Executive Officer of Tatua Co-Op airy Co Ltd would be on, because in the dairy world there is a finite yardstick and it is called the milk price. Tatua’s $7.12 makes Fonterra look like it is run by a bumpkin.
      
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      September 27, 2017 8:12pm
      - Jack5
        
        From the 2016 annual report, it looks as though theTatua chief executive’s salary was $1.23 million.
        
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        September 27, 2017 8:34pm
  - Gabby
    
    That was a fair market reward for lower profits as you know. No dairy farmer begrudges Theo the $20 a week he collects for each of them.
    
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    September 27, 2017 6:13pm
- Ross12
  
  This clearly doesn’t take into account what individual farmers have been doing and are continuing to do on their own properties.
  
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  September 27, 2017 3:20pm
Swifty

I am not the messiah!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11927034
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September 27, 2017 2:52pm
RF

Ardern is now claiming that Angry asked her 7 times to take over the leadership before she agreed.

This does not sound right to me.. is she telling porkies as I thought it was all sudden and a surprise.
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September 27, 2017 3:34pm
VicParking

The failing newspaper’s (online) headline is that Winston is not going to negotiate until the special votes are in. DAA. This is not a scoop. Winston said this in his interview on Saturday night before getting on the ferry, 10pm ish. FAKE NEWS
The MSM are making me sick the way they are making up stories as if they are in the “know” about all to do with the new governments makeup.
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September 27, 2017 3:53pm
Michael

From my perspective New Zealand has had good times since the late 40’s early 50’s.
The only thing out of whack at the moment are house prices , and then mainly only in Auckland and Wellington to a lesser degree.
Live has been easy for anyone on the average wage or more. There are a few more people on the dole now than there were in the 50’s when there were virtually none.
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September 27, 2017 4:03pm
- Gabby
  
  Butter’s a bit pricy too.
  
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  September 27, 2017 6:08pm
- Left Right and Centre
  
  Don’t forget the half million odd and growing non-English speaking foreigners.
  
  Welfare – er – dole – wff – dpb – sickness . . .
  People are fat now. And tatted and pierced.
  And more anti-social. And more dysfunctional.
  
  People go to the farking supermarket in their pajamas with young children after 10pm.
  
  We’ve got lowlife whores ruining St Albans in Chch. Yep – just like the good old ’50s. Nothing much has changed.
  
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  September 28, 2017 5:03am
waikatogirl

A large business group has indicated to youf that there is no need for tertiary qualifications to be eligible for many jobs such as sales, some management positions etc. In fact employers are looking for young people with a great work ethic, good attitude and good communication skills over qualifications.

It has come as news to some that you can begin your working life and earning straight out of school without racking up a large student loan debt going to university.

Well I never! ?

However, a young uni student interviewed believed that those who chose not to attend uni and begin work without qualifications undermined his ability to get a job after finishing uni. Really?
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September 27, 2017 4:09pm
- All_on_Red
  
  My nephew has bailed from his BA course and is now training to be a Plumber.
  Smart boy.
  
  17 0
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  September 27, 2017 4:13pm
  - Digmen1
    
    Good plan.
    Call a plumber and see what they charge you!
    Every young unemployed person should be made to take up a trade tomorrow or get a job or no more dole.
    Cant pass a drug test?
    Fine
    No dole
    Do some crime?
    Fine
    We can lock you up
    If you are a girl – Don’t get pregnant or there will be no dpb.
    
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    September 27, 2017 4:25pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Get pregnant to a plumber instead.
      
      10 0
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      September 27, 2017 7:32pm
      - Left Right and Centre
        
        He’ll certainly stick his tool in ya pipe.
        
        LOL
        And I never type lol . . . . . lol.
        
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        September 28, 2017 4:49am
  - waikatogirl
    
    Exactly AoR, good plumbers get plenty of work and I hear make an excellent living.
    
    Hulun’s “knowledge wave” policy of encouraging every child to go to uni was extremely short sighted for those kids not requiring professional tertiary qualifications for their work. Many come out of uni with large debts, and work in quite ordinary jobs that don’t require any qualifications.
    
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    September 27, 2017 5:08pm
    - sooty
      
      A degree in basket weaving and kite flying doesn’t cut the mustard. Taxinda wants to send them to uni, why?
      
      6 0
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      September 27, 2017 7:24pm
- Jack5
  
  The pledge by more than 100 NZ companies to hire young New Zealanders with no formal qualifications shows our tertiary education model is outdated and unfair (by saddling thousands of kids with debt for dubious qualifications):
  
  http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/340332/kiwi-companies-pledge-to-hire-no-qualification-staff
  
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  September 27, 2017 8:36pm
- Left Right and Centre
  
  yeah – I heard that. Xero – Xero qualifications required apparently.
  
  Yeah – a few jobs maybe.
  
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  September 28, 2017 4:56am
Swifty

Wayne Doyle of the Head Hunters is on the bene? With control over assets up to $6M or more?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/97256789/head-hunters-boss-wayne-doyle-will-have-to-prove-his-6m-of-property-is-legit

Outlaw my arse. He’s nothing but a blood-sucking parasite. I bet you it’s the sickness benefit too – so he doesn’t have to look for work and all that that entails.

My apologies for the language; what a fekin leech! Sitting there, or worse, taking money from hard working families. SCUM.

Come on National – use every tool a your disposal to smash these guys out of existence!
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September 27, 2017 4:25pm
- Digmen1
  
  Yes, but I can’t see it happening.
  That’s why we need s strong right wing party not a namby pamby liberal Act party.
  
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  September 27, 2017 4:41pm
- SPC
  
  Sort of been done. The move to allow confiscation of assets – the modern equivalent of using tax law to get Capone.
  
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  September 27, 2017 5:23pm
- Left Right and Centre
  
  With a wry smile I can tell you it actually saves money to have the lifers on a sickness benefit – less staff time wasted seeing them ticking boxes.
  
  Just think – it wouldn’t take too many of them to add up to a full-time winz staffer – and then all the ‘wraparound’ courses and bs ‘seminars’ etc – adds up.
  
  They’re meant to get doctor approval to re-apply – I don’t think that costs anywhere near as much as going through motions with these awesome people. It saves winz a lot of pointless costly bullshit too so really it’s win-win.
  
  I saw something like half or more ex-inmates are on sickness benefit. Some stat like that. Sickness / too hard basket benefit.
  
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  September 28, 2017 4:44am
- softail 1450
  
  yes ,doyle has cost this country dearly with his crime,hes nothing but a bludging piece of dog shite’
  
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  September 28, 2017 6:53am
Manolo

Full Moon Annette King, Chardonnay socialist and shameless trougher:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11926869

The Super City is getting a distinctly Labour Party flavour with the appointment of former deputy leader and Health Minister Annette King to the board of Watercare.
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September 27, 2017 5:08pm
- stigie
  
  If that’s the case, i hope Annette can pop around to Penny’s place of residence and demand to see if her angle grinder is certified !~
  
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  September 27, 2017 5:46pm
  - nasska
    
    The angle grinder will be fine.
    
    It’s Penny’s certification that we’re concerned about! 🙂
    
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    September 27, 2017 6:18pm
    - stigie
      
      Yeah true Nasska, she is adamant she’s a certified Pubicwatchdog to make herself feel overly important !~
      
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      September 27, 2017 7:22pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  I am sure that they will cooperate fully with a National Government. Not.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:11pm
- softail 1450
  
  this is what happens with the old nz politicians,after 35 years of snouting the public trough you retire from politics and move to the next trough,,fricking old bitch cant stop taking the dime no matter where it comes from.
  its actually despicable nauseating behavior .
  
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  September 28, 2017 7:01am
Manolo

The Africanisation of Europe yields results:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4921812/Migrant-accused-rape-Germany-calls-victim-prostitute.html

A Ghanaian asylum seeker accused of raping a German woman while forcing her boyfriend to watch called his victim ‘a prostitute’ in court.

The man – only identified as Eric X – is accused of raping a 23-year-old woman after spotting the couple camping in a nature reserve near Bonn, west Germany in April.
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September 27, 2017 5:47pm
- EAD_TWO
  
  Manolo – the Africanisation of Europe is a deliberate plan. Breed the high IQ races of Europe with the Low IQ races of Africa and create a new man just smart enough to follow instructions, but too dumb to realise he is being f**ked over by the system. This race will be ruled over by Jews who do even him as far as to enshrine in law, rules to maintain their racial purity:
  
  It’s called the Kalegri Plan:
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_von_Coudenhove-Kalergi
  
  The man of the future will be of mixed race. Today’s races and classes will gradually disappear owing to the vanishing of space, time, and prejudice. The Eurasian-Negroid race of the future, similar in its appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the diversity of peoples with a diversity of individuals.
  
  Instead of destroying European Jewry, Europe, against its own will, refined and educated this people into a future leader-nation through this artificial selection process. No wonder that this people, that escaped Ghetto-Prison, developed into a spiritual nobility of Europe. Therefore a gracious Providence provided Europe with a new race of nobility by the Grace of Spirit. This happened at the moment when Europe’s feudal aristocracy became dilapidated, and thanks to Jewish emancipation.
  
  Interesting isn’t how they think of themselves in terms like “chosen” or “spiritual nobility” yet accuse white people of being “Supremicists” ??
  
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  September 27, 2017 7:33pm
  - Gruffydd
    
    So what happened with you Nazi Scum ?
    Mummy drop you on your head?
    Hows the global finical collapse going ?
    Still coming in September ~~2014 2015 2016 2017~~ any day now ?
    
    yeah I know.
    Griff smokes pot yadayadayada.
    
    4 5
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    September 27, 2017 8:09pm
  - Jack5
    
    EAD2… when the Keas pick on the Jews there is an element of taking the piss aimed at Kiwibloggers as a whole.
    
    But you are serious! Bloody hell, this is NZ in 2017, not Germany in 1936.
    
    You also seem to target Masons, and there are heaps of them in NZ. Are you arguing that New Zealand Masons are part of an international conspiracy?
    
    I don’t think there’s any chance the African surge into Europe is the action of some conspiracy, Jewish, Masonic, Rosicrucian, or any other kind. The political correctness that tolerates it is a fashionable mood in the West rather than a conspiracy.
    
    The mass population move is driven by poor Muslims’ and Africans’ dreams of European life style and welfare – dreams enhanced by smuggling networks that make hundreds of millions from transporting these people through the borders of Europe.
    
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    September 27, 2017 8:11pm
    - EAD_TWO
      
      @ Jack5,
      
      you’re still labouring away under the mental burden of guilt that you’ve been taught since you were young and is reinforced daily by the MSM with stories of muh slavery, muh racism, muh Holocaust, muh colonialism.
      
      If you think this co-ordinated invasion and destruction of the European people is some kind of accident, a big stuff up so to speak, read this piece by Savant.
      
      https://irishsavant.blogspot.co.nz/2016/12/a-few-weeks-ago-inhabitants-of-stony.html
      
      Here is a small excerpt:
      
      The report has elicited outrage from almost all of the readers. But many repeat the infuriating fallacy that the invasion is due to stupidity on the part of Europe’s leaders. But these people are not dumb, they’re not stupid, and they’re not stumbling into what will be a challenge of existential dimensions. No. The NWO globalists are fulfilling the plan drawn up by a man they honour with a prestigious prize every few years: Count Coudenhove-Kalergi….
      
      You mention the Rohingya being “expelled” from Burma for their behaviour. Well Jews have been expelled by 109 different nations and you would have us laughably believe that rather than being due to their behaviour, it was because of some kind of virus call “anti-semitism”
      
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      September 27, 2017 8:43pm
- Digmen1
  
  Yes, but not enough results to get the right wing party to 40%.
  We just just need a few hundred more rapes.
  
  The problem is their education system has made them feel so guilty for the war etc.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:27pm
ex-golfer

Its time for Bill English to show some leadership and jettison Winston Peters.

After his performance at his media “stand-up” today, combined with the train-wreck interview with Guyon Espiner two weeks ago it is clear that Winston is toxic and not fit to hold any kind of senior office in the New Zealand Government. He would be an embarrassment of the highest order.

Let Jacinda try to manage the drunken idiot and the arrogant Shaw in a three-way of the damned and deranged – it wouldn’t last a term, NZ will go back to the Polls, NZ First will be consigned to the annals of history and a strong National will regain the treasury benches in a majority Government.
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September 27, 2017 7:07pm
- softail 1450
  
  ex golfer,all very well but what about the damage that cabal of clowns would do to our country in the mean time ?
  
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  September 28, 2017 7:07am
wreck1080

I had largely ignored the Wellington Island Bay cycle lane debate.

Until, I saw this…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/97269176/shouting-erupts-as-wellington-city-council-approves-new-island-bay-cycleway-design

That picture of the current design is bizarre… I like thinking outside of the square, but not if it ends up with something like this!
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September 27, 2017 7:08pm
- Left Right and Centre
  
  They are thinking outside the mind.
  Pesty Lester. One term let’s hope – twerp.
  
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  September 28, 2017 4:34am
Jack5

The expulsion of Rohinga Muslims from Myanmar/Burma is huge, and will result in a renewal in the refugee fleets heading towards Australia, and perhaps New Zealand.

The Leftists and PC mob will press for NZ to widen its doors to these Muslim refugees, while continuing to ignore the plight of Christian and other minority refugees in Iraq and the Middle East.

Many foreign Buddhists are lining up on the side of the Burmese Buddhists against Muslims. An example is these Buddhists in Sri Lanka who don’t want Muslim refugees coming into their country:

http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/2112971/hardline-buddhist-monks-storm-un-safe-house-sri-lanka
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September 27, 2017 7:28pm
- EAD_TWO
  
  @ Jack5,
  
  But the Rohingya have been expelled for no other reason other than the Burmese people being Islamophobic. Do you not have any sympathy for these innocent peoples plight?
  
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  September 27, 2017 7:55pm
  - Digmen1
    
    No
    Muslims belong in muslim countries
    
    There was no hue and cry when many Christians were expelled from the middle east over the last few centuries.
    
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    September 27, 2017 9:24pm
  - softail 1450
    
    if you need any reason to have support for the burmese people feeling uneasy about the muslims on their doorstep just look at how many babies these so called “destitute”muslim rohingya are having ,thats how it works with muslims , “move in and outbreed the existing population” all the while pleading poverty and suppression ,,
    
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    September 28, 2017 7:15am
Fletch

Andrew Bolt will interview Winston Peters at 7pm Aussie time on Sky News Australia. I suppose he’ll have some of it up on his Facebook page, The Bolt Report.
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September 27, 2017 7:47pm
nasska

Those Saudi women are getting braver. Now they’re driving cars!

Next thing we know, they’ll be washing, shaving & staying single until their teens.
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September 27, 2017 7:58pm
- sooty
  
  Just have to hope they don’t wear the darlek outfit driving.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:10pm
- Digmen1
  
  Next thing we know, they’ll be wearing mini skirts in the street.
  
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  September 27, 2017 9:22pm
stigie

The men will revolt Nasska, having hairy legs and armpits, unwashed, riding bikes and being under 12 is what their heart desires !~
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September 27, 2017 8:17pm
Monique Watson

Slow day today huh? Comment count has gone down. Must be tapering off day. Except for Griff who took ecstasy in the weekend and is now deep in the throes of the come down. It’s not known as Suicide Tuesday for nothing.
Lucky old Watercare. What did Annette do in Government again? e.
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September 27, 2017 9:35pm
- Gruffydd
  
  WTF
  Don’t do alcohol kids .
  You end up like Monique.
  Drunk and sad in L A.
  
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  September 27, 2017 10:05pm
Monique Watson

Calm down. Just bantering.
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September 27, 2017 10:24pm
Jack5

One of the results of globalisation…

The United States may no longer have heavy industry strong enough to sustain full-scale war, the United States Senate has been warned by the US chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Joseph Dunford.

If not the United States, who else to underpin defence of the West?

http://breakingdefense.com/2017/09/industrial-base-too-brittle-for-big-war-dunford/?utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=56755048&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_Ion2pOdAfo8EyRityorHeXm2bdsWvN5U7kXkiAXURdCtos7IU_PCVTEh41DktkIM9sF8X7zC6Xt-9mK34EWd-rAbDFg&_hsmi=56755048
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September 27, 2017 10:25pm
- Digmen1
  
  Yes I have often thought about that.
  I have not read the article, but I will do.
  
  I mean in a long war the USA might runout of computer gear, as much of it, hard drives, circuit boards and screens etc are made in China or asia.
  
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  September 28, 2017 7:06am
Tauhei Notts

I thought Winston Peters was very good on the Holt Report.
Actually the Holt Report is the best show out of Australia.
It makes NZ’s tv journalists look like they should be on the Housos Programme.
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September 27, 2017 11:28pm
Wayne1749

Jacinda is as thick as two short planks, completely bereft of IQ or any other form of substance – hence her shaky grasp of any details —-I’ve never heard her come up with any intellectually solid argument supported by the facts and figures.

Consider this:
* she has never worked a real world job in her entire life
* she has never done any serious academic study in her entire life (ffs a Bachelor of Communication Studies?)
* she has never raised a family
* never set up and run a successful business – not even a hot dog stand
* her choice of partner is revealing – Clarke is a complete and utter dweeb and a knob.
* she is completely unprincipled – she has thrown immigrants, Metiria Turei, the Green Party, under the bus, and she would be happy to do same to anyone else who she feels stands in the way of her overweening ambition to be prime minister – one she has no doubt harboured ever since her school days
* She has been a self styled spokesman for poverty for almost a decade –but it is all virtue signalling —but where is her policy, the nuts and bolts of it???? Wait ….there is none

Jacinda is an attention seeking, virtue signalling, Pt Chev/Grey Lynn/Ponsonby chardonnay ‘socialist’ —its all about me me me (the polar opposite of a true hero of the left and great New Zealander – Helen Kelly)

It is ironic that the left is simply relying on her apparent physical attractiveness to ride to power – a complete betrayal of every feminist principle most leftists would purport to uphold.

BTW, if she becomes PM it will be amusing seeing her try and re-negotiate the Korean FTA before Xmas —going to get out the popcorn for that one.
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September 28, 2017 12:57am
- Left Right and Centre
  
  to be fair – a lot of recent immigrants are used to being under a bus when there were no seats in their former countries.
  
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  September 28, 2017 4:15am
- softail 1450
  
  jacinda is perfect for labour, poison for NZ.
  
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  September 28, 2017 7:26am
- big bruv
  
  There was NOTHING great about Helen Kelly.
  
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  September 28, 2017 7:27am
Wayne1749

1. National + NZ First = 58 seats + 9 seats = 67 seats
2. Labour + Greens + NZ First = 45 seats + 7 seats + 9 seats = 61 seats

Now you tell me which option is more broadly representative of the NZ voting public (1) or (2)? Which option will provide for more stable government (1) or (2)?

Of course the option most democratic in spirit, at least, is National + NZ First. It is also by far the option most likely to provide New Zealand with stable government over the next three years.
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September 28, 2017 1:11am
Digmen1

@ Wayne
We all know you are “right”
But its the media with their constant “Jacinda might be PM” articles, and Winston reading Facebook or having grudges etc that might upset things.
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September 28, 2017 7:08am

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