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August 22, 2017 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 22 August 2017

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Dead Earnest

Is Stuff’s Tracey Watkins auditioning to be Jacinda’s Press Secretary?
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August 22, 2017 8:01am
- cmm
  
  I thought the auditioning was done a while ago and she’s been working that spot for at least a year now.
  
  Oops I said she and spot in the same sentence. Is that sexist?
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:04am
  - Lance
    
    Are you white, male, straight and not poor?
    If all 4 yes then you are and always have been sexist… and racist… and homophobic
    
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    August 22, 2017 8:24am
    - PhilBest
      
      Even if you’re poor. If you’re poor and you voted for Trump because you want less competition from illegal immigrants for low paid work, you’re just as deplorable as the capitalist whitey racists.
      
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      August 22, 2017 8:36am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Is it sexist? Only in a Gareth Morgan sense and you are obviously comparing her to Spot the dog
    
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    August 22, 2017 8:51am
  - VicParking
    
    Tracy is the pig that is lending the tooth fairy her lipstick
    
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    August 22, 2017 8:56am
- PhilBest
  
  I can’t resist – your name reminds me of a completely true story. As part of the funeral proceedings for a guy I knew named Earnest, pallbearers were carrying his coffin in, with a bit of a struggle to co-ordinate their efforts, and one of them said sotto voce, “remember this job needs us all to be in dead earnest”.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:09am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Yes, but she’ll have to fight Gower for it, unless perhaps he is auditioning for another position.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:15am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    I think Gower has knob nailed
    
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    August 22, 2017 10:14am
- Manolo
  
  The hack Watkins has been drumming Comrade Jacinda up for many months.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:26am
- oldgolfer
  
  Why not; she’s a big supporter.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:31am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  She can as well stand as a list candidate for Labour.
  
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  August 22, 2017 9:05am
PhilBest

Let’s have a bit of a change from discussing shallow current political incidents in partisan terms, and talk some big-picture philosophy.

“The Racist Maze” by Andrew Klavan

https://pjmedia.com/andrewklavan/2017/08/20/the-racist-maze/

“…What is the concept that builds the racist maze? The concept is this: man is matter. A human being is flesh and blood, chemicals and electricity, an illusionary self in a machine of no more essential worth than the machines it will one day build to replace it. Is the machine defective? Abort it. Is it sad? Drug it. Is it old and sick? Kill it. Does it utter noises that offend you? Silence it. And has it done something of universal harm or value? Ah, well, then, attribute that crime or accomplishment to something mechanical, something that can be measured and tested and quantified: skin color, brain power, genes. After all, man is matter. What other sort of thing could be the cause?
It makes perfect sense to me that we end this week of hatred and murder by arguing over statues. In the racist maze, we’re all statues, just stuff in the shape of people.
Except of course — of course — we’re not. We’re spirits. We’re minds. It’s our ideas and our decisions that make us what we are, that make our neighborhoods and countries and credos what they are. Like everything on this earthly plane, our ideas and our decisions are instantiated in matter, in individuals who live in certain places at certain times. But the essence of those ideas and decisions, the goodness or badness of them, has nothing to do with who made them or when and where they arose. The vast complex interaction of forces and accidents and events and culture and history that cause a person to think or do a good thing here rather than there is way beyond our ability to understand. In fact, for all we know, forces, accidents, events, culture and history aren’t the causes at all. For all we know, each advance of human decency and wisdom is simply a gift to an individual from his Creator: a gift that he can then pass on to anyone willing to break free of his traditions and tribal loyalties and accept it.
How do we know what the good gifts are? By the whiteness or blackness of the giver? By his privilege or his victimhood? By his nation or gender or his sexuality? Do you really think so?…”
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August 22, 2017 8:02am
- Kimbo
  
  In the racist maze, we’re all statues, just stuff in the shape of people.
  Except of course — of course — we’re not. We’re spirits. We’re minds.
  
  And courtesy of that erroneous dualistic conception of human nature, there’s your false dichotomy in that argument, right there. Racism, like sexism and other forms of bigotry where they truly exist are based on the interaction of psycho-social misconception with the physical reality of another’s appearance. It’s part of what distinguishes someone else as “other”, on the basis of their skin colour, gender, clothing, customs, etc.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:09am
  - PhilBest
    
    So you can make a comment like that without any “psyche” input at all into the process? That is a “dualistic error” and it all just came from your random collection of cells?
    
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    August 22, 2017 8:22am
    - Kimbo
      
      I rather thought your quote was steeped in the error of neo-Platonic dualism. We are neither just material, not just psycholical/spirit. Instead we are integrated physical, psychological and social beings. It would seem in rejecting one extreme/straw man, you have embraced another. At least based on your quote as it stands.
      
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      August 22, 2017 10:38am
      - PhilBest
        
        Does the original item exclude “integration”? That’s ridiculous.
        
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        August 22, 2017 12:13pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ PhilBest
        
        Yes it did exclude integration, or at least it implied it with leading questions, so no, my assessment that Klavan is engaging in dualism is far from ridiculous. Perhaps you didn’t read your original quote carefully enough or consider the implications (with emphasis):
        
        The vast complex interaction of forces and accidents and events and culture and history that cause a person to think or do a good thing here rather than there is way beyond our ability to understand. In fact, for all we know, forces, accidents, events, culture and history aren’t the causes at all.
        
        So if one entertains the possibility that material events have no effect on human will and activity, then you are left with exclusively non-material forces, that supposedly defines shape human will and action because human nature, despite having a material aspect, is primarily non-material in its core essence.
        
        And that is platonic dualism, sub-Christian, and…nonsense.
        
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        August 22, 2017 12:49pm
  - GoVege
    
    Or species!!
    
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    August 22, 2017 3:46pm
- ztev
  
  Unreadable rubbish
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:09am
  - gravedodger
    
    Great headline, you were going to say?
    
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    August 22, 2017 9:00am
  - G152
    
    Then stop posting. That should cure it
    
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    August 22, 2017 9:37am
- PhilBest
  
  The point is: humans for most of history until something enlightened them, were fighting, killing, enslaving, oppressing, exploiting regardless of the underlying construct. If you weren’t at war with another “race”, you were at war with another tribe in your own race, whether you were an ancient Briton or Celt in 1000 BC, or a Maori in Aotearoa 1700AD. It is absurd to give any race a “free pass” and set them up as “the” victim group. Should there be “social justice” over what went down between McDonalds and Campbells a few centuries ago?
  
  In playing the “social justice” game, we risk losing sight of how and when humanity anywhere emerged from this historical pattern. In fact the social justice warriors greatest hate seems to be reserved for the very values system that enabled exceptional progress in the first place, and enables them the luxury of their own pontifications. If they were actually existing in a tribe of any race long enough ago, the chief and the witch doctor and the tribal consensus would be demanding that they go out and smash a few enemy skulls today and bring back a few women and children as slaves. But only whitey males are “guilty” today for their ancestors.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:33am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Should there be “social justice” over what went down between McDonalds and Campbells a few centuries ago?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Glencoe
    
    Well it might pay to be very careful to whom you offer shelter and hospitality.
    
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    August 22, 2017 8:49am
    - Flash
      
      We McDonalds/Macdonalds have long memories. I was brought up to distrust the Campbells, and nothing has happened to make me change my feelings over the years.
      
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      August 22, 2017 10:29am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Another one of the Whanau here on KB.
        
        Fraoch Eilean.
        
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        August 22, 2017 11:05am
      - PhilBest
        
        But do you have an entire industry set up to make the Campbells pay you for, say, the water they use or the fish they catch?
        
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        August 22, 2017 12:34pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Alas, we missed our best opportunity…
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsay_MacDonald
        
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        August 22, 2017 2:58pm
  - Gruffydd
    
    The point is: humans for most of history until something enlightened them,
    
    Yip it was called enlightenment
    strange as it seems it involved rejection of the certainty of faith in a creator and the edicts of the priest hood on how the world works.
    Yet you hark back to that darker time when superstition ruled to base your judgment on when you involve a creator and your faith.
    How do you manage to maintain such conflicting ideas?
    
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    August 22, 2017 8:57am
    - kowtow
      
      Neil Oliver, puts it much earlier than the Enlightenment. At the arrival of Christianity in the British Isles. A new way of thinking , a separate law from the law of the jungle.
      
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      August 22, 2017 9:16am
      - SGA
        
        That’s a bit of a jump too far, isn’t it? The world had seen plenty of civilisations before the advent of Christianity. Not “Christian” civilisations granted (whatever that might mean), but still operating well above the basic level of “the law of the jungle”. There was a world outside the British Isles.
        
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        August 22, 2017 9:31am
      - Gruffydd
        
        The law of the jungle?
        like William the conqueror for instance.
        
        The tribes of the British islands had a successful tribal society before your favorite goat herders bastard son of a god was born.
        Their society was organized and structured well enough to defeat the might of the Romans.
        
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        August 22, 2017 9:40am
      - rangitoto
        
        There were no less wars in Europe after Christianity arrived there.
        
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        August 22, 2017 10:11am
      - Jack5
        
        Griff, ya Welsh git ….
        
        Re your 9.40 post:
        
        The Angles, the Jutes, the Saxons, the Danes, the Vikings all kicked hell out of the native British tribes after the Romans went home after 380 years, and they did so until the recently French-ified Vikings called Normans landed in Kent.
        
        The sheep jokes began with the Welsh.
        
        “How does a Welshman find sheep in long grass?Very satisfying.”
        
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        August 22, 2017 10:46am
      - Jack5
        
        A Welsh atheist? Isn’t that a bit of a contradiction, Griff?
        
        Here are a few of your ancestors’ superstitions:
        
        http://www.tehistory.org/hqda/html/v22/v22n2p055.html
        
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        August 22, 2017 10:53am
      - kowtow
        
        ‘Their society was organized and structured well enough to defeat the might of the Romans.’
        
        Oops , too much ganja. The Celts didn’t defeat the Romans . The Romans famously abandoned Britain in order to face the barbarian invasions on the mainland.
        
        And yes the Enlightenment really was a high point in world civilisation, there’ve been no secular wars since then.
        
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        August 22, 2017 11:10am
      - Gruffydd
        
        Hadrian’s Wall was the north-west frontier of the Roman empire for nearly 300 years. It was built by the Roman army on the orders of the emperor Hadrian following his visit to Britain in AD 122.
        
        Into the port early today Kowtow?
        As to it was better back when
        Nope you are lucky to be alive and living in a liberal progressive paradise at the best time yet to be a human..
        
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        August 22, 2017 11:42am
      - holysheet
        
        Yep, the Vikings had the answer. Rape and pillage all who defied them. To the winner the spoils.
        Ah for the good old days, when men were men and the women knew their place.
        
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        August 22, 2017 1:27pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        The strange thing is that actually reinforced the value of woman.
        
        If a man was off doing some good old rapeing and pillaging for three or four moths at a time you better hope a good woman had the reigns firmly under control back at the homestead.
        
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        August 22, 2017 2:05pm
    - realityczech
      
      It is funny seeing Griff pretend he is not deeply religious. He is the only one here preaching about global floods and the world ending due to mans sins 🙂
      
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      August 22, 2017 11:00am
      - Gruffydd
        
        Straw man .
        Make up some piece of idiocy and then attack it
        Guess who is the idiot beating his own imagination in a debate?
        
        It is Kea.
        The same half baked bullshite and repeated cutnpasting the same old piece of rubbish.
        Even slips into habitual way of addressing people.
        Poor little loony tune.
        
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        August 22, 2017 11:11am
  - Peter
    
    “Othering” is human.
    
    Go over to The Standard (well, don’t but…) and you’ll see example after example of “tories”, “neo-liberals” and “evil right wingers”. These terms are all used pejoratively. There are also groups like “No one likes a Tory”.
    
    There are clear patterns of demonising the other “tribe” in political discourse for those holding slightly different ideas. It’s othering, and tends to be hostile in tone.
    
    Nothing really changes.
    
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    August 22, 2017 9:05am
    - Gruffydd
      
      Yip Peter
      You play the same game on here.
      
      Tribal identity and politics are intertwined………
      
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      August 22, 2017 9:11am
      - Peter
        
        Never said I didn’t, Gruffydd.
        
        That’s my point.
        
        Humans have always “othered” and likely always will. We seem to have an inbuilt, tribalist nature. We are wary of those who are different.
        
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        August 22, 2017 9:15am
      - Gruffydd
        
        The trick is overriding your animal instinct and basing your world view on rational thought.
        
        An aspirational goal at best but one worth pursuing.
        
        We have many here who have been influenced by the American idea of culture wars who reject out of hand valid viewpionts because they belong to the other side.
        
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        August 22, 2017 9:24am
      - Peter
        
        The trick is overriding your animal instinct and basing your world view on rational thought.
        
        Sure.
        
        We have many here who have been influenced by the American idea of culture wars who reject out of hand valid viewpionts because they belong to the other side
        
        That never happens on the left blogs. They are very open to centre-right views. /sarc
        
        Point is, we all know we should be rational, but in practice it’s mostly othering.
        
        For example, the modern left ideology tends to exacerbate “othering” by using a post-modernist dialectic of oppressor/oppressed.
        
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        August 22, 2017 9:31am
      - Anne Glen Eden
        
        “We are wary of those who are different.”
        
        There’s a good reason for that, Peter. It’s one of the things that enabled the species to survive in a hostile environment. In reality, the cause and expression of ‘hostility’ has changed, but it still applies.
        
        Another essential survival strategy of the human species is the tendency to derive general rules from single instances.
        
        That one is very effective at maintaining survival but when it misleads, it can have seriously bad results.
        
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        August 22, 2017 11:03am
- Gruffydd
  
  For all we know, each advance of human decency and wisdom is simply a gift to an individual from his Creator: a gift that he can then pass on to anyone willing to break free of his traditions and tribal loyalties and accept it.
  
  Shite oh dear
  Hello Phill your god is a social construct .
  The version of “god” you are a believer in depends on the society you are born into.
  
  zetv is right nothing but gibbering nonsense .
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:41am
  - Anne Glen Eden
    
    “your god is a social construct…depends on the society you were born into”
    
    That is not, in fact, true Gruffydd.
    
    Every religion in the world is based on a social means of personifying, explaining, and/or controlling their experience of things which are beyond their control. But the basis is the same everywhere.
    
    There is Love – and the Christian God IS Love, itself, not an old man in the sky. There is not a human being on the planet who doesn’t experience that from one perspective or another – and want it, reliably and honestly.
    
    The alternative, the world over, is pride, envy, wrath, gluttony, lust, avarice, and sloth.
    
    Every form of social and religious administration is to control the latter. The form and extent of that control varies from place to place and the representations of them.
    
    The motivations are the same everywhere, all the time – and every human being has to choose one side or the other. They don’t get a choice about the choice – and it really doesn’t matter what terms you want to apply to any of it. None of it is a ‘social construct’.
    
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    August 22, 2017 9:39am
    - Gruffydd
      
      The word is exceptionalism .
      My god is not like those other gods….
      
      To an atheist your gods are no different.
      
      You live in a secular society your religion has no relevance to by far the larger majority of us.
      
      To an atheist as soon as you invoke “god” in support of a position you are talking nonsense.
      
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      August 22, 2017 10:00am
      - Anne Glen Eden
        
        From a Christian perspective, you are actually saying:
        
        “My motivations are not like those other motivations.”
        
        “You live in a secular society, Love has no relevance to by far the larger majority of us”.
        
        “To an atheist as soon as you invoke “Love” in support of a position you are talking nonsense.”
        
        Not that I disagree that it’s a reflection of many atheists. But there’s an awful lot of them who would disagree with those statements.
        
        And why should or would I, as a Christian, engage in validating any other religion/society? I’m not in competition with them – I’m myself – and I have enough trouble with that without judging everyone else on the planet.
        
        I wouldn’t deny, either, that there are a lot of Christians who are motivated by the ‘letter of the law’ rather than the Spirit of it. More to the point, you’re doing the same thing – if every religion does not hold to the same ‘letter of the law’, then none of them are valid.
        
        However, the imperfections of the species, both generally and individually, does not negate the true Spirit involved which is behind all of them. That’s just throwing the baby out with the bathwater and a total denial of the human condition, human problems, and the severity of the need for real ‘progress’ of the species – which is essentially ‘spiritual’, not physical.
        
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        August 22, 2017 10:39am
      - Gruffydd
        
        the true Spirit involved which is behind all of them.
        
        Sorry god again…
        Atheist don’t believe in god, sprites, magic sky pixies purple unicorns, the source of all love or whatever else your imagination wraps your faith in .
        I do not dispute we can discus moral behavior
        To do so with an atheist you need to delete god from your lexicon
        It is possible to live a moral life without god. Millions of us do in this county alone .
        All indications are that faith in a creator does not make you any better as a person.
        
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        August 22, 2017 10:52am
      - Jack5
        
        Griff says: “It is possible to live a moral life without god.”
        
        But how do tell it’s a moral life, Griff?
        
        Will you base it on the Golden Rule? If so on whose deductions from it, and didn’t philosophers deduce the Golden Rule from the morality of several religions?
        
        http://www.bard.edu/iat/newsletters/IATNewsletter/documents/Thursday_April17.pdf
        
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        August 22, 2017 10:58am
      - Anne Glen Eden
        
        I have to be off Gruffydd, but it doesn’t matter because you’re only communicating with your own mind and biases anyway.
        
        I didn’t say God – I said Spirit, by which I mean Love – or the other kind – pride, envy, wrath, gluttony, lust, avarice, and sloth.
        
        “I do not dispute we can discuss moral behavior”
        
        Yes. You do. You’ll do anything to avoid it – laying it all at the feet of not liking the word ‘God’. It isn’t ‘morality’. It’s just Love – that you’re ‘writhing’ to avoid and/or ‘euphemise’ to ‘morality’. You seem to have more trouble with ‘Love’ than others have with ‘penis’ or ‘vagina’.
        
        No-one lives a ‘moral’ life without Love. Or I suppose one could argue it. But ‘moral’ is:
        
        “virtuous, good, righteous, upright, upstanding, high-minded, right-minded, principled, proper, honourable, honest, just, noble, incorruptible, scrupulous, respectable, decent, irreproachable, truthful, law-abiding, clean-living, chaste, pure, blameless, sinless”
        
        All of which are encompassed by ‘Love’ – which goes much further than that; and includes the notion that every individual is born perfect and with a potential which it is his/her lifelong right and responsibility to reach. Not impose on others – just in himself/herself – and be respected while they’re trying to do it.
        
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        August 22, 2017 11:22am
      - Gruffydd
        
        The golden rule is independent of religion. It can be deduced without invoking God. The law of reciprocity allows organized groups of humans to be maintain.
        If I am always pissed of with something you have done we would not cooperate as well for our mutual benefit
        Homosapians is a social creature.
        
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        August 22, 2017 11:31am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Here is a fun little game-theory demonstrator on why societies where people are honest are more wealthy than those where people lie. That is the fundamental basis for human ethics and morality – evolutionary pressure, not post-hoc religious explanations.
        https://flowingdata.com/2017/07/27/trust/
        
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        August 22, 2017 2:04pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      @ Anne Glen Eden
      
      and some folks on here think you are Kea.
      
      sheer nutz.
      
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      August 22, 2017 10:28am
      - Anne Glen Eden
        
        I saw that. I haven’t the vaguest notion who that is and it’s not worth responding to.
        
        Of course, it’s probably just a reflection of (as is typical) a way that they would act more than a comment on me. Don’t we all suffer from other people telling us what our identities are/should be – have to fit you into some sort of ‘category’, especially a tribal one? And this from people who, I believe, often decry the same.
        
        Mind you, maybe I should consider……is Kea more acceptable or less acceptable?
        
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        August 22, 2017 10:47am
      - realityczech
        
        The religious crackpot Lucia has identified a flock of up to 50 Kea and wants DPF to ban all of them 🙂
        
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        August 22, 2017 10:54am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Mind you, maybe I should consider……is Kea more acceptable or less acceptable?
        
        Yes, lots of folks on KB are in to pigeon-holing.
        
        Kea proved to be unacceptable….he/she kept flying out of too many pigeonholes.
        
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        August 22, 2017 11:21am
      - Gruffydd
        
        Yes Maggy
        The main one he flew out off was the one marked rational thought.
        He did have a stunning mastery of pigeon chess.
        
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        August 22, 2017 11:47am
      - sam green
        
        Yes Maggy – and you’ve done your fair share of finger pointing over the while.
        
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        August 22, 2017 9:26pm
    - Anne Glen Eden
      
      UrbanNeocolonialist, LMAO
      
      You’re comparing apples with cows.
      
      You believe the human species, or any small group within it, survived because they didn’t tell each other lies as the result of evolutionary pressure? And more – that this forms the basis of all their ethics and morality?
      
      And people accuse Christians of believing the absurd.
      
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      August 22, 2017 4:02pm
PhilBest

“The Hypocritical Statue Obsession of a ‘Smug Generation”
(On) Victor Davis Hanson

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/historian-hypocritical-statue-obsession-smug-generation/

“…This generation has decided that it’s the most moral and ethical in history and has the right to go back and pick winners and losers….it’s a progressive project in which they pick and choose their type of outrage for political purposes in the present…”
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August 22, 2017 8:03am
- PhilBest
  
  Isn’t this ironic given that the whole progressive movement (sixties era etc) was based on moral relativism, how dare anyone assume the right to judge anyone else according to a values system that is a “construct” anyway?
  
  Mate, modern political correctness is a “construct” if anything is.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:05am
- Gruffydd
  
  it’s a progressive project in which they pick and choose their type of outrage for political purposes in the present…”
  
  I do so love wingnut projection and sense of self awareness.
  Shall we count up all the outrage feed to our RWNJ and breathlessly posted on here at the end of the day ?
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:08am
- cmm
  
  “This generation has decided that it’s the most moral and ethical in history”
  
  Last night got me thinking that perhaps people need a war every now and then to reset their expectations. It is not that I like war, just that it can expose people to more than their little bubble and show what concepts like duty, sacrifice and such mean.
  
  Being born in the early 1960s, I have strong recollections of blokes in their 50s with pinned up pants legs or walking with sticks. Others walking around with blazers on in mid summer to cover up colostomy bags. Others with PTSD and such having seen and done terrible things.
  
  Later on I saw the impact of the Rhodesian and Angolan wars: blokes in their 20s missing limbs, schoolmates being killed.
  
  And we now squeal because we get to buy some shiny new cellphone or see some TV series a month later than when it is released in America.
  
  It might be moral and ethical to avoid war and violence, but not at any cost. It is certainly not moral and ethical to passively watch, or actively participate in, the destruction of the West.
  
  32 4
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  August 22, 2017 8:20am
  - mikenmild
    
    War, what is it good for…
    
    3 5
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    August 22, 2017 9:23am
    - KevOB
      
      Spoils.
      
      6 1
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      August 22, 2017 9:34am
    - JibberJabber
      
      It has given you the freedom you enjoy.
      
      4 0
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      August 22, 2017 1:06pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Ending tyranny. Oppressive and violent autocracy, oligarchy or theocracy can generally only be ended by war.
      
      1 0
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      August 22, 2017 2:07pm
  - kowtow
    
    two examples of the most moral and ethical.
    Empty virtue signalling.
    
    ‘Sweden’s ice hockey referees will fly the rainbow colours of the pride flag this season in an initiative designed to make the sport more inclusive and help cut out discriminatory behaviour.’
    
    https://www.thelocal.se/20170821/why-swedens-ice-hockey-referees-will-wear-the-rainbow-flag-this-season
    
    And here’s a really daft one.
    
    “In one of supermarket chain Edeka’s shops in Hamburg at the weekend, shelves were emptied in an effort to celebrate the diversity of their products and show how empty their store would be without products from abroad.”
    
    https://www.thelocal.de/20170821/edeka-grocery-shop-empties-shelves-in-celebration-of-inclusivity-and-diversity
    
    7 0
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    August 22, 2017 11:36am
  - Gabby
    
    That’s the sort of thinking that gave us WWI cmmiebokkie.
    
    1 1
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    August 22, 2017 1:38pm
- marcw
  
  Let the book burning begin Comrades! If it’s OK for statues, then physical representations of words and thoughts can be justified too using their logic. Can we start with the Clinton Library?
  
  15 1
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  August 22, 2017 10:40am
  - VicParking
    
    Whats happening in the USA is what happened in Germany in early 1930’s. First statues, then books, then people
    
    3 0
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    August 22, 2017 4:00pm
- DifferentPerspective
  
  How long before the Left here start baying for the statue of that late good Kiwi man Colin Meads to be torn down for the “racism” of the Cavaliers tour?
  
  Nothing is sacred to the fascists on the Left.
  
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  August 22, 2017 11:13am
- Gabby
  
  The Southern rebel slaveholders definitely lost philly.
  
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  August 22, 2017 12:29pm
duggledog

Of course, the real reason Jacinda went down to Morrinsville for her media-approved photo op recently was to embed into the electorate’s subconscious that she’s actually a rural kiwi gal, really, she is really.

Fact is Jacinda is about as rural as ‘Lorde’. Jacinda either does not know or more likely does not care that farming, otherwise her water tax (and other levies and regulations to come) would be a no-go area.

Farming is all about risk and it’s getting tougher all the time that’s why farmers intensify as the Government slowly strangles them.

Risk = markets, weather, debt, injury, regulation, workers and of course Labour’s intended policy, now clearly articulated by David Parker.

Trying to come across as ‘rural at heart’ is one of Jacinda’s few Achilles’ heels going into the Election.

Unless Bill English, who can actually shear a sheep, exploits this bullshit for all it’s worth then to use the country vernacular National could be on the road to being dog tucker.
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August 22, 2017 8:05am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Bill left the farm at Dipton to go to boarding school around 12 or 13. At University he specialised in medieval english…
  By the time he was selected as a national candidate he had a career as a treasury bureaucrat and was a party branch chairman in Hataitai Wellington….
  Dipton was just a Hollywood back lot facade.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:14am
  - Lance
    
    And the reason he can shear a sheep is because he has nothing to do with a rural lifestyle?
    
    Bzzzzz
    
    Idiotic statement… try again
    
    46 3
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    August 22, 2017 8:28am
    - ztev
      
      Helen Clark grew up on a diary farm and could milk cows !
      
      You think we should chose our MPs based on their parents occupations ?
      
      4 24
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      August 22, 2017 9:29am
      - hmmokrightitis
        
        “Helen Clark grew up on a diary farm and could milk cows”
        
        And some things just dont change really do they?
        
        Ah, I love the smell of irony in the morning.
        
        16 2
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        August 22, 2017 9:54am
      - Lance
        
        You really are a clown ztev
        YOU mocked Bill’s rural back ground, I pointed out the obvious error you made.
        Then you make it about something else.
        
        You really are Labour aren’t you, standard arsehole debating style.
        
        20 3
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        August 22, 2017 9:55am
      - sooty
        
        She grew a beard as well.
        
        6 2
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        August 22, 2017 9:58am
      - KKKKatee
        
        I think you’ll find Helen Clark grew up on a sheep and cattle farm in Te Pahu, west of Hamilton. She can certainly claim she had a rural upbringing in the true sense of the word – a working sheep farm as opposed Jacinda trying to make out she knows all about rural life when, in effect, a small lifestyle block is a joke compared to a big farm. No one makes any money off a small block. Usually leased to the neighbour – much easier that way. Having been a dairy farmer for a good number of years and worked hard every day and brought up a family, I’m getting might sick of Jacinda trying to make out she really is a rural chick at heart……..
        
        18 2
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        August 22, 2017 10:37am
      - ztev
        
        So growing up on a farm picks up some rural skills.
        
        I used to help pick grapes as a kid, doesnt mean I know how to run a vineyard or even like the stuff
        
        4 16
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        August 22, 2017 10:46am
      - mikenmild
        
        I realise now that growing up in the country is not an adequate background in rural life. One cannot just live remote from civilisation, one must also be able to shear sheep, milk cows, ride horses and build fences. Anything less means one is hopelessly unqualified to understand country life or express an opinion on anything agricultural.
        
        1 7
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        August 22, 2017 11:41am
      - Gabby
        
        That’s a silly question.
        
        1 0
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        August 22, 2017 12:32pm
  - Dead Earnest
    
    I would like to Jacinda shear a sheep.
    
    24 3
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    August 22, 2017 8:29am
    - simpleton1
      
      “A Generation Game” Thanks to Bruce Forsyth
      Would she even be a good “rousie”,
      
      Sweep around the shearer,
      Hear the call “Black Wool” and take action.
      Pick up the fleece. Throw it on a table.
      Immediately get back to sweep the vacant area where the shearer shears, before he returns with another woolly sheep.
      Back to the table, Skirt the fleece, take out pen stain, remove the top knot, all to be placed in the right fadges, and then roll the fleece up.
      Whilst timely sweeps for the belly wool and crutchings.
      
      A 2 hour stretch would be interesting. and then there are another 3 stretches to make 8 hours for the day.
      In the summer peak before Christmas, there can be many repetitive days as every one starts to wish for a days rain so there will be no sheep to be shorn the next day.
      
      8 1
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      August 22, 2017 9:09am
    - mikenmild
      
      Is ‘Jacinda shear’ some kind of obscure euphemism?
      
      4 5
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      August 22, 2017 9:25am
      - sam green
        
        I wonder if Live Earnest is as quick?
        
        0 0
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        August 22, 2017 9:28pm
    - MCos
      
      Maybe Bill can shear a sheep. His predecessor, John Key, couldn’t even hammer a nail.
      Norm Kirk built his own house. Putin can wrestle a bear, or whatever, and Trump can look at the eclipse without protective glasses.
      Doesn’t mean any of these people can or cannot lead a country.
      
      12 2
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      August 22, 2017 9:46am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Geld the fairy
      
      6 3
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      August 22, 2017 10:20am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      I hope that isn’t a euphemism, there are people waiting/hoping to be offended lol.
      
      3 0
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      August 22, 2017 11:54am
  - lifesgood
    
    Bill owns and runs a farm. Yes, he has a manager, as many farmers do, but make no mistake, he is hands on whenever he gets the chance. Unlike Jacinda, whose father owned a lifestyle block, probably so she could have a little pony, ironic? Much? Kind of weird that people owning lifestyle blocks are despised by the lefties for being rich pricks.
    
    38 4
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    August 22, 2017 9:01am
    - mikenmild
      
      Marie Antoinette and her friends used to dress as milkmaids at the Petit Trianon. Did that make them dairy farmers?
      
      7 12
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      August 22, 2017 9:29am
      - Lance
        
        More bullshit propaganda from the French revolution.
        Demonstrably false.
        
        But the lefties needed to demonize the opposition so they made shit up.
        
        Not much has changed
        
        10 4
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        August 22, 2017 9:59am
      - mikenmild
        
        “Let them eat milk biscuits”?
        
        1 9
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        August 22, 2017 10:25am
    - ztev
      
      Bill has never owned a farm. His parents had 12 children and his brother Hamish took over the family farm, all the rest scattered to the 4 winds
      
      English’s occupation before he was an MP was public servant !!! hahahaha
      
      8 34
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      August 22, 2017 9:31am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Lifesgood writes that Bill English owns a farm; ztev writes that Bill has never owned a farm.
        
        They both can’t be correct.
        
        What does the 2017 Register of Pecuniary Interests say?
        https://www.parliament.nz/media/3926/2017-summary-report-final.pdf
        
        It states that he is a Company Director of Resolution Farms Ltd
        and Farm is listed under his Real Property.
        
        26 1
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        August 22, 2017 10:02am
      - Jack5
        
        Bill’s done plenty of farm work.
        
        He didn’t learn to shear while working in Treasury.
        
        14 0
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        August 22, 2017 11:03am
      - calendar girl
        
        Looking forward to your personal list of occupational skills and achievements, ztev.
        
        13 0
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        August 22, 2017 11:35am
  - Prince
    
    Release the dossier Ztev. And the tapes.
    
    18 2
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    August 22, 2017 9:14am
  - doggone7
    
    ztev, Do you think if you hadn’t put the last bit your comment wouldn’t have been down ticked ?
    
    I mean since the first bits are biographical facts there’d be no reaction would there?
    
    5 2
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    August 22, 2017 9:16am
    - Garbageman
      
      Thats how immature kiddies try to rile up others with lols hahaha etc troll tactic #1 he knows people here think he is a lying manipulating gimp so what does he have to lose
      
      3 0
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      August 22, 2017 2:29pm
  - Chris R
    
    Nonsense. Years ago I was passing through Dipton and had a beer in the local pub. There were a few locals in there milling around and I noticed Bill English there in farming clobber and being very much a part of the local scene. I doubt there was a person in the Bar with whom he wasn’t on a first name basis…other than me! You really are true to form as a Labour misery guts in the way you mistrust anything ever said, it reveals your lack of fidelity and grace in human matters. This must make you the perfect embodiment of a caucus member for Labour.
    
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    August 22, 2017 9:44am
    - doggone7
      
      Bill was probably enjoying being in his home town environment with people he knew the same as Ardern would have enjoyed being in her old home environment with people she knew.
      
      So the misery guts mistrust of anything ever said, revealing lack of fidelity and grace in human matters making some the perfect embodiment of caucus members for National, applies to those mounting attacks on Ardern for her background?
      
      3 17
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      August 22, 2017 9:57am
      - Chris R
        
        I can’t read Ardern at all. This often happens when pastel colours are employed.
        
        13 2
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        August 22, 2017 10:30am
      - Paulus
        
        But hasn’t Ardern’s Fish & Chip closed down ?
        
        7 1
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        August 22, 2017 11:14am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        How often has Jacinda returned to Morrinsville before the other day?
        Did the media ask or care?
        When was Bill last in Dipton?
        
        3 0
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        August 22, 2017 2:14pm
  - ztev
    
    Shearer Bill ?
    
    Nicky Hager built his own house in Wellington, of course hes best known for his carpentry !! LOL
    
    2 13
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    August 22, 2017 10:48am
    - Jack5
      
      Ztev says “Nicky Hager built his own house in Wellington.”
      
      Sitting up some hill isn’t it, and hard to access? Like something a cave man would build?
      
      Or is he up there to keep in touch with UFOs?
      
      10 1
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      August 22, 2017 11:05am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Hager is a trust fund revolutionary, the least worthy of political creatures.
        
        5 0
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        August 22, 2017 2:12pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Is Hager a politician now? He is nobody.
      
      11 1
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      August 22, 2017 12:01pm
- cmm
  
  Why should she care:
  1) Rural is solidly Blue and very hard to swing. Why waste time on that?
  2) Only 15% of NZ derive their income from the rural sector. It is easy to throw them under the bus to milk the envy of the other 85%. In this age of divisive politics it’s a pretty obvious choice.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:25am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    “Only 15% of NZ derive their income from the rural sector.”
    
    I would dispute that. Have you counted all Fonterra’s Head Office people in Auckland and everyone involved in the shipment of exports through out ports, associated finance and legal services, plus teachers, doctors , shopkeepers etc. in provincial centres which would not exist but for the rural sector.
    I could go on.
    
    23 1
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    August 22, 2017 9:07am
    - cmm
      
      Sorry, I meant to say “directly”.
      
      Of course there are huge flow on effects, but they generally don’t consider themselves part of the agricultural sector and are happy to stick it to the farmers.
      
      eg. the warfie loading containers of powdered milk onto ships is really employed by agricultural sector, but that is hidden to him/her/it and he/she/it will be happy to see the farmers screwed over.
      
      9 1
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      August 22, 2017 10:32am
      - PhilBest
        
        The thing here, is the difference between “GDP” and “primary income”.
        
        Far too few people understand this. There is an excellent short work on this, “The Flow of Money: How Local Economies Grow and Expand” by William Fruth.
        
        http://policom.com/wp-content/uploads/2015-FLOW-OF-MONEY.pdf
        
        I wish every politician at every level of government could be made to read it.
        
        5 0
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        August 22, 2017 12:43pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    Crikey – anyone remember the mass hysteria and doom forecasting that went on when the milk price dropped from a record high?
    
    11 1
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    August 22, 2017 9:32am
- KKKKatee
  
  “Rural at Heart”? Pfft!!!!! A joke Jacinda, a joke.
  She went to Matamata and got booed – presumably over the water tax. This “we haven’t sorted the detail yet” bullshit is wearing thin, Jacinda. Either you know the detail or you don’t. And what gets more scary is when Robertson says they’ll get in the experts to sort out the detail on their proposed tax policies after they’ve won the bloody election. The country has gone mad – it’s been infected with the ‘Jacindavirus’ and no one can think straight any more.
  
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  August 22, 2017 10:00am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Jingavitus perhaps
    
    4 1
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    August 22, 2017 10:25am
Monique Watson

Weather forecast: Cloudy with a chance of War. Unless you’re in Karachi in which case war’s a dead certainty. I just bought a bottle of red, a white (chardonnay) and the tequila is well hidden.
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August 22, 2017 8:06am
- Kimbo
  
  What happened, Monique, to you being off the wine and on the gin?! I retract my apology and retraction and your lawyer will be hearing from my lawyer! Defamation at dawn! ?
  
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  August 22, 2017 1:59pm
ztev

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
National party’s letter to Ohariu voters last week:

“In Ohariu , this means we would like your party vote only”…
Regards Brett Hudson…

You cant make this stuff up.
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August 22, 2017 8:07am
- Rachael Membery
  
  I think it is a huge assumption that Labour is the threat in Ohariu, perhaps people have been saying that they would like to be able to be comfortable with two ticks blue and that Peter Dunne was the vote splitter that might let Labour in.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:16am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  ztev you obviously didn’t see O’Connor on TV last night saying that Dunne’s pulling out is going to make it harder for him to grab the seat.
  Fuck off back to your socialist echo chamber.
  
  51 3
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  August 22, 2017 8:23am
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    And you trust O’Connor’s words??
    
    12 2
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    August 22, 2017 9:35am
  - ztev
    
    Is only 4 weeks Brett Who ? has got plenty of time to go from telling voters -Dont vote for me, to Vote for me.
    
    Maybe he even has some billboards, or public meetings lined up.
    
    “make it harder for him to grab the seat.”, They would say that- complacency can be the death of you.
    
    3 23
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    August 22, 2017 9:35am
    - Prince
      
      A couple of weeks ago it was Jacinda ‘I don’t want to be leader, vote for Andy’. Now it’s ‘Forget Andy, vote for me’.
      
      27 1
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      August 22, 2017 10:07am
      - sooty
        
        Angrys policys in a new wrapper. An’t they great!
        
        7 1
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        August 22, 2017 12:50pm
      - Lance
        
        A fish n chip wrapper?
        
        1 1
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        August 22, 2017 1:26pm
- Dave Mann
  
  That effete useless waste of space Dunne finally sees the writing on the wall and has slunk out.
  
  After literally a lifetime of sucking on the public tit Peter Dunne is leaving politics. Thirty years too late. Good riddance. What took him so long?
  
  Although a Labour government would be a disaster for this country right now, at least Greg O’Connor has done something useful with his life and would probably be an asset to our parliament. As for the other guy Whatsisname…. well, I don’t know him from Adam and neither probably do the citizens of Ohariu, so good luck with that, National.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:24am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Yes, good riddance. After 33 years, finally his surname is appropriate.
    
    15 4
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    August 22, 2017 8:56am
  - Chris R
    
    I once new a lass whose surname was Dunne or Dunn and she was free with her favours…her nickname was “Utterly.”
    
    7 2
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    August 22, 2017 9:47am
    - Gabby
      
      Ass no way to talk about your mum chrisser.
      
      1 4
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      August 22, 2017 1:49pm
- lifesgood
  
  All the people who used to vote for Dunne, a huge majority, will now vote for National. Dunne had done his dash and they were ready for change. I heard O’Connor on the radio last night, he’s under no illusions. The Nat candidate is also well known and well respected in the electorate. Now it is two ticks blue.
  
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  August 22, 2017 9:14am
  - mikenmild
    
    I understand Brett Hudson got a bit confused on the radio this morning and endorsed Greg O’Connor. Apparently he still thought the electorate should “vote for the other guy”.
    
    5 15
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    August 22, 2017 9:30am
    - ztev
      
      No one in the electorate has heard of Hudson…
      
      hes one of the Marvel characters- The Invisible Man
      
      3 27
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      August 22, 2017 9:37am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Well, time will out and we will see.
        
        I have a Lady Godiva here that says you are wrong Z
        
        3 0
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        August 22, 2017 10:29am
      - calendar girl
        
        “No one in the electorate has heard of Hudson…”
        
        However, they have heard of the National Party that he represents. Just as they know of Greg O’Conner as a prominent Union leader, who retired recently after 21 years as head of the Police Association.
        
        Ohariu should be a good contest, especially given its short time-frame. It’s unlikely to be decided by ztev’s witticisms about ‘Marvel characters’.
        
        10 1
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        August 22, 2017 11:59am
      - alloytoo
        
        Actually the Invisible Man is an HG Wells character.
        
        0 0
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        August 22, 2017 1:08pm
    - Dafixeruppa
      
      Gave me a smile thanks.
      Sad that you get the auto down tick when you actually make a funny comment.
      
      1 2
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      August 22, 2017 12:26pm
  - KevOB
    
    ☑️☑️
    
    17 2
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    August 22, 2017 9:37am
    - Gabby
      
      Tulixpu
      
      2 2
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      August 22, 2017 1:50pm
  - ztev
    
    ” vote for Dunne, a huge majority”
    
    It was 600 votes.
    
    We are seeing the 7 stages of grief here. First its
    shock & denial…..
    
    2 19
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    August 22, 2017 9:40am
    - lifesgood
      
      Typical from you. You didn’t read my post carefully. Just shooting your mouth off as usual. I said “used to,” for a reason. They wanted a change.
      
      13 2
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      August 22, 2017 10:15am
    - Chris R
      
      You forgot you’re own stage….rigor mortis!
      
      2 1
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      August 22, 2017 1:16pm
  - Gabby
    
    Tulixpu.
    
    1 3
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    August 22, 2017 1:49pm
Left Right and Centre

“Poltics is about the hard grind, substantive policy, achievement and hard work. It’s not all about smiles and waves its really about who does the job.”

– Peter Dunne

Who incredibly had been an MP for as long as I’d ever lived in NZ – arriving 1985.
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August 22, 2017 8:13am
Manolo

The animal is put down:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41004603

Spanish police have shot dead the main suspect in last Thursday’s Barcelona attack, Younes Abouyaaqoub.

Police believe he was the driver of a van which careered down the Las Ramblas avenue, killing 13 and injuring more than 100 others.
39 1
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August 22, 2017 8:13am
- GoVege
  
  Yippee!!
  Now feed it to some hungry pigs.
  
  6 1
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  August 22, 2017 11:19am
Happychappy

So Jacinda picks Paddy Gower as a person she likes in NZ Politics because he is good for a yarn. Her choice of Paddy shows her trust in people if she does reach the height of Prime Minister will be severely tested as his he will sell his soul and shit on anyone that stands in his way in achieving his goals.
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August 22, 2017 8:20am
- holysheet
  
  The thing they have in common apart from their politics, is they are both well suited for the next Colgate advert. Dumb and Dumber 3 is calling for auditions, I hear.
  
  20 2
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  August 22, 2017 8:44am
- RF
  
  Good old Paddy. I can just picture him in front of the fire lying on his back with the chosen one rubbing his tummy. Paddys eyes rolling back and tongue hanging out panting with pleasure.
  
  Jeez I will be pleased when the election is over as Paddy will be humping her leg next…..
  
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  August 22, 2017 9:46am
- Gabby
  
  That Paddy’s a crappy chappy assfissure.
  
  3 0
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  August 22, 2017 1:52pm
Anne Glen Eden

Alan Duff remains a voice crying in the wilderness, especially the Maori wilderness:

” Election desperation brings out the worst in our politicians. They can’t see the wood is damaged for the trees of voters. As part-Maori, I’m sick of being told that going back to traditional ways is good for us. (Hey? Where are the books?)

Even the dumbest crook has a smartphone with more stored knowledge and information than the entire Maori history. Tribal warfare ended ages ago. We’re faced with the challenges of finding ways to flourish in an ever-changing world.

To create a Maori prison concept is saying we’re a bad race. Maori prison inmates need an emotional awakening and life skills taught, values instilled.

Two decades ago, after giving a talk to an audience of predominantly white people, a woman asked why I didn’t agree that Maori should go back to their traditional way of living. I asked her if she advocated that white people go back to the Dark Ages.

The country is desperate for more tradesmen. Not boys whipped into shape. Maori culture should be part of who we are. But without chains on it, let alone under lock and key and meddling politicians.”

This echoes the news the other night of schools, and one in particular, in Northland where the majority of pupils are seriously disturbed and need and can’t get psychological counselling.

What does that say about their homes? Yes, it’s known that it’s violence, alcoholism, drugs, and abuse at home that’s doing it. When will the parents, communities, and cultures take responsibility for it?

It’s all very well making excuses about colonisation, “But no learned haka can hope to heal a broken heart. Only self-love helps and that can only come from learning something useful, expressing your pain without fear and thus feeling good about yourself.”

He’s right: “Our leaders need to visit schools, frequently, so their smiling faces are familiar, and talk to the kids about aspiring, achieving, aiming high and being a good person. ”

But they don’t and aren’t – neither do they do anything about the adults inflicting the abuse on their children. They’re too busy ramping up the ‘grievance industry’ and justifying their appalling social statistics. Let’s face it, without the latter, they can’t readily justify the former.

They don’t want to help these children and not only are doing nothing to prevent the damage, they are vested in it continuing.
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August 22, 2017 8:23am
- cmm
  
  Can you make a fat person fit by going to the gym for them? No. Same deal here: Only the people with the problems can fix themselves.
  
  But you can make the fat person’s problems worse by enabling them: tell them it isn’t their fault and bring them chips and dips so they don’t need to get of the couch. Same deal here: we make it worse for them through victim cards and welfare.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:33am
- Rachael Membery
  
  He should run for parliament.
  
  8 0
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  August 22, 2017 12:20pm
Paulus

I see that Cindy has promised a new passenger Rail service to Tauranga.
Great promise but why did she not talk to the Port of Tauranga who have over 80 trains a day through the single Kaimai tunnel and on a single track.
Should a passenger train ever get out of Auckland without a hold up – unlikely, why will it take two and a half hours to get to Tauranga.
High speed on a narrow gauge single track would frighten the life out of me, and I have done the Shanghai express train at over 350kms an hour.
Any new service will cost billions to get the right engines and equipment and system. They cannot build the high tech engines and carriages at the Dunedin Workshops.
Who is going to pay for two trains a day ?- stop dreaming the Union’s wet dreams Cindy.
You could be a grandmother before it happens.
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August 22, 2017 8:33am
- cmm
  
  ” but why did she not talk to the Port of Tauranga who have over 80 trains a day through the single Kaimai tunnel and on a single track.”
  
  feels, not logic.
  
  It does not have to make sense.
  
  38 1
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  August 22, 2017 8:42am
  - VicParking
    
    At 300,000 trips per year (/2/365) equals 410 passengers each trip both ways. Does a railcar hold 410? Would 410 people want to travel into town, get on a railcar, arrive at their destinations and then taxi/bus to their final destination? Just another Liebour policy that does not add up when looked at with a calculator.
    
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    August 22, 2017 9:08am
  - ztev
    
    Kaimai Tunnel has under half the 80 trains a day
    
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    August 22, 2017 9:41am
    - Paulus
      
      Where is your evidence ? – I would rather trust the CEO of the Ports of Tauranga’s figures than yours.
      Twat.
      
      13 2
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      August 22, 2017 11:18am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Twat would be offensive to some people. Especially twats.
        Personally if I was Jacinda I would be very upset with all of the people who thought that someone would call me a pig in lipstick, it is a problem with all of those people. Is that how they think of her?
        
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        August 22, 2017 2:20pm
      - sam green
        
        I imagine she can read for meaning Rachael Membery.
        
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        August 22, 2017 9:34pm
  - cmm
    
    Rail does have some purpose in the transport world, but it is clearly not the answer to everything that so many lefties think it is.
    
    If commuter rail really worked then it would not need such massive subsidies. Wellington’s public transport system needs almost 100% subsidies (for each dollar of ticket income, the public transport system needs 92 cents of subsidy). Rail is the worst of that.
    
    Indeed, it would be cheaper to lay on “free” taxis for some routes.
    
    Due mainly to EQ risks, rail is very risky in NZ. Rail is inflexible and easily disrupted. Just look at Kaikoura: almost a year on and the rail link is still broken.
    
    Basically, we don’t have either the population density nor the geology to make rail work like it does in Europe etc.
    
    The only exception might be something around Auckland where the EQ threats are low and the population density is a bit higher.
    
    14 0
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    August 22, 2017 10:07am
    - mikenmild
      
      Which Wellington suburban rail routes do you think would be more cost-effective if served by taxis?
      
      1 9
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      August 22, 2017 10:09am
      - calendar girl
        
        Sadly, mm, not where you live.
        
        3 0
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        August 22, 2017 12:11pm
      - PhilBest
        
        The Johnsonville line would easily qualify. That is a CRIMINAL waste of public money for utterly irrational, ideological reasons. For most public transport, a $3 fare involves the taxpayer kicking in around another $7 for the costs you don’t pay. For the Johnsonville line it is more like $30 or $40, maybe even more.
        
        In a just society, some politicians would be in jail for this kind of malfeasance with public money.
        
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        August 22, 2017 1:02pm
    - ztev
      
      ..” [kaikoura]…the rail link is still broken.”
      
      So is the road, in fact the rail link will be first to open in the next few weeks…. still months away for highway
      
      2 14
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      August 22, 2017 10:41am
      - realityczech
        
        zteve did your cruel socialist parents not allow you to have a train set as a child ?
        
        12 1
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        August 22, 2017 10:44am
      - cmm
        
        “So is the road”
        
        One road is broken, but buses, trucks etc continue to provide transport because it is really easy to reroute traffic.
        
        12 0
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        August 22, 2017 10:49am
    - Paulus
      
      Remember the Sydney Airport to town cost a small fortune in subsidies every year from when it was designated.
      We once used it and we were the only people on it by the look of it.
      
      10 0
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      August 22, 2017 11:20am
    - VicParking
      
      I’m supprised the greens have not promotted rickshaws. No polution and jobs for all the migrants.
      
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      August 22, 2017 4:14pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Quite right Paulus. You cannot fund the sort of investment needed for a high speed train on the back of two trains a day in each direction. Each one will probably have 100 passengers at the most, so the true cost of a ticket will be in the order of $5,000 each way.
  This is nothing but socialist dreamland, but watch the media lap it up.
  
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  August 22, 2017 8:44am
  - holysheet
    
    Yes but that train will go through Morrinsville. I can see a decrepit old Jacinda in her wheelchair officially opening the new station in 2067.
    
    26 2
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    August 22, 2017 8:50am
    - Kabull
      
      HS – I hope you are not suggesting she will still be PM or in govt then!
      
      Seems to me that Labour have not consulted KiwiRail about the economics of their ‘dream’. Who do they have that has the knowledge to work out that this is a sensible and financially sound proposal?
      
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      August 22, 2017 9:18am
      - KevOB
        
        Grant.
        
        13 0
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        August 22, 2017 9:39am
      - PhilBest
        
        Who cares about economics? Find and read Dave Heatley’s “The Costs and Future of Rail in NZ”. If the economics mattered, we’d be closing down more and more of the national network, not talking about recommissioning or expanding it.
        
        EDIT: the problem is that socialists love rail, and the public has illusions about it “taking traffic off the road” (both cars and freight). We have never had honest and courageous politicians who just give the public the facts about the costs of trying, not to mention the lack of actual success at taking patronage off the roads.
        
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        August 22, 2017 1:06pm
      - holysheet
        
        They let her out of the nutters home for the day. This election will be the start of her downhill spiral into darkness.
        
        2 1
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        August 22, 2017 1:30pm
      - KevOB
        
        Their dream includes a 160kph train that can sway!
        
        3 0
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        August 22, 2017 1:31pm
- Lance
  
  I imagine it would be far far more cost effective to have a high speed ferry from Auckland to Tauranga
  A good gas turbine hydrofoil direct from CBD to CBD (well near enough).
  
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  August 22, 2017 10:09am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  And how does one get around when one arrives in Tauranga? Trains are an obsolete and uneconomic technology for everything except bulk primary production and large scale industrial transport. Converting rail corridors to roads would be far more efficient
  
  4 0
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  August 22, 2017 2:21pm
  - VicParking
    
    Bus service in Tauranga is crap.
    
    3 0
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    August 22, 2017 4:15pm
Manolo

Lovely. It will bring a tear to the eye:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4810304/Girl-named-Angela-Merkel-Muhammed-German-politician.html

A mother has named her baby daughter Angela Merkel Muhammed – after the German Chancellor let her family into the country to start a new life.
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August 22, 2017 8:37am
- kowtow
  
  Here’s another traitor.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/21/pope-francis-prioritise-migrants-dignity-over-national-security
  
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  August 22, 2017 9:31am
  - Manolo
    
    The seller of smoke, a long-time socialist and Peronist, is being heavily criticised in Italy for his treasonous statements.
    
    12 0
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    August 22, 2017 9:56am
Paulus Gnome

Article about rates around the country in a chip wrapper: ‘Auckland Council debt up 30% but Western Bay of Plenty pays highest rates’

‘Surprisingly, the tiny West Coast district of Buller was second-highest ($476,740). Mayor Garry Howard said that sum included a payout to the council’s former chief executive, and the chief executive’s salary in the year to June this year was only $255,000’

Only $255k! I am in the wrong job, I’d get out of bed for that. Only! Makes Steven Town look like a bargain!

‘The table, published by the Taxpayers Union, says Auckland Council’s debt is now $22,189 for every ratepayer – more than three times the national average of $6989 and topped only by Waitomo District Council with $24,600.

Ffs! And I mow my own berm!
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August 22, 2017 8:38am
- VicParking
  
  Come on… Buller is the hub of industry and tourism in?????. Where the hell is Buller?
  
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  August 22, 2017 9:12am
Scorpion

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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VOTE NZ DOWN THE DUNNY

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August 22, 2017 8:42am
- Lance
  
  Bzzzzzz
  Bugger… that nurse never seems to arrive.
  
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  August 22, 2017 10:15am
Happychappy

So wouldn’t be great to be a fly on the wall listening to Winston First and his trusted circle discussing what they can now achieve going into election with his bargaining tools slightly weakened to what he had before the Jacinta effect took hold. Winston should also note by now that Jacinta is pushing every thing she has to make sure any coalition deals that are done will be on her terms, so interesting times ahead if Labour become the Goverment.
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August 22, 2017 8:47am
- holysheet
  
  Winston First and his trusted circle
  
  “Mirror mirror on the wall, what shall we say today”
  
  21 1
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  August 22, 2017 8:55am
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

NZHerald Interview with Bill English – The sound quality is awful, if the camera focuses the panel while Bill is talking, we can’t hear what Bill is saying and vice versa. Idiots.
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August 22, 2017 8:59am
- VicParking
  
  Are you saying that the failing newspaper are not no 1 in the Bill English fan club
  
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  August 22, 2017 9:14am
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Amazingly Bill English is very fluent despite the lefty mob panel trying to trip him up.
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August 22, 2017 9:02am
- Happychappy
  
  SCS: It was a great performance from Bill English and full of facts no mater what he was asked the answers he gave allowed the panel little room to dispute what he was explaining. Very confident and factual and hard for the panel to discredit what was said. Definitely a performance of a Prime Minister that showed why John Key picked him to win the Election when asked last week.
  
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  August 22, 2017 9:26am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Yes, now I am getting my confidence back after this performance. Despite the lefty sidekicks trying to belittle him especially the commie Liam Dann. I see he is the elder brother of the resident commie Corin Dann. Damn the Danns.
    
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    August 22, 2017 9:50am
  - Peter
    
    I don’t think Jacindas “we’ll refer it to a panel of experts” diversion is going to work anymore. Some in the media are already seeing through it.
    
    Has she got anything else?
    
    21 0
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    August 22, 2017 9:56am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      For once Espiner guy grew some balls and pushed Tooth Fairy a bit and Toothie started to flutter. I am starting to enjoy this. In another two weeks Labour will be back to low thirties. Latest Roy Morgan had them only at 32 not that Roy Morgan is a trustworthy poll.
      
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      August 22, 2017 10:16am
    - fluffykiwi
      
      We could be ruled by a Panel of Experts, how big a panel of experts. Is there any need for MP’s if a panel of experts can do the job.
      
      2 0
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      August 22, 2017 7:13pm
Longknives

Over at The Standard they are complaining that the Media is being too tough on their ‘People’s Princess’ and how dare those big meanies ask her tough questions!!

Sweet Jesus! How is this Precious little Princess going to handle being Prime Minister??
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August 22, 2017 9:07am
- VicParking
  
  Its just because of the translation needed from english to pig.
  
  9 4
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  August 22, 2017 9:15am
- Peter
  
  The Standard were quick to complain when the media asked John Key tough questions…
  
  /sarc
  
  The media haven’t even started to dig into the People’s Princess like they did on Key.
  
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  August 22, 2017 10:01am
oldgolfer

Check this out: Cindy put on the coals over tax.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/337723/video-jacinda-ardern-won-t-rule-out-capital-gains-tax

Me thinks the honeymoon is over.
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August 22, 2017 9:08am
- VicParking
  
  You have to realise she is young and inexperianced.
  I’m sure IF she is elected the unions will provide he with good advice and recommend the right people to be on her various panels.
  
  21 1
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  August 22, 2017 9:18am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    she is young and inexperianced.
    
    inexperienced?
    She has been in Parliament for 9 years, fgs!
    
    She has been hanging around political quarters for at least 20 years.
    
    As she has a degree in Communication Sciences (BCS), majoring in Politics and Public Relations, she is eminently prepared for handling the hard stuff.
    
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    August 22, 2017 10:15am
    - Ross12
      
      Correction Maggy
      ” she should be eminently prepared for handling the hard stuff”
      
      11 0
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      August 22, 2017 10:46am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I had deliberately used an unnecessary adverb.
        
        5 0
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        August 22, 2017 11:30am
    - Jack5
      
      She has “a degree in Communication Sciences (BCS), majoring in Politics and Public Relations.”
      
      So that’s why the media wimmun love her!
      
      16 0
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      August 22, 2017 11:07am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      So best she does.
      
      3 0
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      August 22, 2017 1:11pm
    - VicParking
      
      Why can’t she then??????
      
      3 0
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      August 22, 2017 4:19pm
  - Paulus
    
    Does the appointments include Helen Clark – she is unemployed at present and I cannot see her being employed, certainly not in the UN where she has slagged them.
    
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    August 22, 2017 11:24am
- Kabull
  
  And note how she reacted to Espiner’s pushing her. There were flashes of anger which do not bode well.
  
  27 1
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  August 22, 2017 9:21am
  - RF
    
    Cindy is a foot stamper with a short fuse. Also great at finger pointing when pissed off.
    
    Facial expressions are also interesting.
    
    She will find the next month to be very tough and will have trouble coping.
    
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    August 22, 2017 10:00am
    - Lance
      
      I was around at the folks place the other night.
      The first thing they noticed was Jacinda pointing.
      
      Which they consider very rude.
      
      Had to chuckle
      
      22 1
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      August 22, 2017 10:18am
    - stigie
      
      “Facial expressions are also interesting.”
      
      Bloody hard not to take your eyes off the outdoor furniture !~
      
      8 0
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      August 22, 2017 10:20am
    - KKKKatee
      
      Things could become exciting then. Remember, that she has a history of anxiety and it could very well rear it’s ugly head and topple her in the weeks ahead. Obviously anxiety is her Achilles heal and now that has been identified, prepare for game on.
      
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      August 22, 2017 10:28am
      - Muttonbird
        
        Are you saying the Nats should target her mental health? Wouldn’t put it past them.
        
        2 23
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        August 22, 2017 10:56am
      - mikenmild
        
        How did Achilles ‘heal’?
        
        7 4
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        August 22, 2017 11:35am
      - KKKKatee
        
        Edit: Should be Achilles Heel – not heal!
        
        2 0
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        August 22, 2017 4:13pm
    - GazzaW
      
      Paula knows exactly how to light Jacinda’s fuse.
      
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      August 22, 2017 6:52pm
lifesgood

Personally I think labour are running an amazing campaign……for National. So far they have pissed off the entire rural sector, all property owners, manufacturers, car owners, Asians and even market stall operators. Keep going labour, you’re doing really well.
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August 22, 2017 9:20am
- Inandout
  
  At first I thought Bill was foolish for standing back a little and bringing out the odd candy announcement. But as you say Labour are pissing off a lot of people and can’t rely entirely on their traditional voter base, which ironically consist of workers in those sectors. Maybe Dunne was right when asked about Jacinda’s surging popularity, he said anything can happen in the next few weeks.
  
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  August 22, 2017 9:37am
  - Muttonbird
    
    So why did Dunne quit? Actions speak louder than words.
    
    1 11
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    August 22, 2017 10:57am
    - Happychappy
      
      Quite simple muttonhead he thought that Hudson had a better shot at winning the seat than he did. I am looking forward to hearing Labour’s argument if they don’t win this seat after all the speculation.
      
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      August 22, 2017 11:16am
- Rachael Membery
  
  And needed to bribe the party faithful out with singer, side shows and old circus masters with husband. Such fun.
  Then said that it was Jacinda lol.
  Watch for the, they are only treating Jacinda like they should everyone else because she is a ‘threat’. God save us.
  She should be treated like Andrew would have been or anyone else.
  
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  August 22, 2017 1:21pm
- GazzaW
  
  ……..and now the royalists. Jacinda has started the republican ball in motion. Once again she hasn’t thought it through – the TOW will be invalidated. Can you imagine the rucus any suggestion of that will cause.
  
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  August 22, 2017 6:56pm
KevOB

Did anyone see the brief news flash on Prime last evening about the Cathedral? It showed a memorial construction on the site not a working church.

I would like to know where to find the graphics shown.
Thanks.
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August 22, 2017 9:43am
- KevOB
  
  Found it, thanks.
  
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  August 22, 2017 5:56pm
Manolo

Really? The US should leave the primitive and benighted place once and for all.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-afghanistan-idUSKCN1B109Q

President Donald Trump is likely to open the door to a modest increase in U.S. troop numbers in Afghanistan when he lays out his strategy on Monday night for America’s longest military conflict, U.S. officials said.
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August 22, 2017 9:53am
Nostradamus

The Standard has published a post by Giovanni Tiso: Speaking Power to the Truth – The Political Assassination of Metiria Turei. I’ll save you time and jump straight to the conclusion:

So what is the answer? Māori media offer both a compelling alternative model of how to investigate our political and social reality and a platform from which to critique and reorient the dominant Pākehā model. As Miriama Aoake notes, the need for Māori to establish an independent body to monitor the media – as recommended more than 10 years ago by UN Special Rapporteur Rodolfo Stavenhagen – is more urgent than ever. The whole of society, and not Māori alone, stand to gain from any reform that broadens and deepens the social responsibilities of our media. In the meantime, we must resist the temptation to claim that the demise of Metiria Turei was inevitable, that the questions had to be asked, and that once the blood was in the water the sharks must do as nature commands them.

So the answer, apparently, is that we should all watch Māori TV. Out of interest I went to the Maori TV website and searched for “Metiria Turei”. The first relevant hit was this 10 August 2017 article. Here’s the key paragraph:

Last night Metiria Turei resigned as Co-Leader of the Green Party because of unbearable scrutiny toward her whānau following her benefit fraud admission. Social Worker expert Dr Fiona Te Momo says Turei may not have done wrong.
“What I’m hearing is the rationale behind the intent was in order to feed and house her child, her tamariki. Therefore it would not be, and this is where you’d need a lawyers [sic] – a personal gain. So if that’s the intent, and you’d probably have to look behind the stories, I would not say its fraud.”

The article notes that this so-called expert received “mixed views on the matter” via social media. Mixed views! Giovanni Tiso wouldn’t approve of that!
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August 22, 2017 10:02am
- Gruffydd
  
  The stupid woman thought the far left SJW like her was the party’s support base.
  Instead the Greens have mopped up a few votes off Mana and lost the mainstream ecologically aware vote to labour and party’s towards the center.
  Shaw has not got the balls to stand up to the fringe
  whackos.
  
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  August 22, 2017 10:20am
  - mandk
    
    Nor does Shaw seem to have the integrity to declare that cheating the taxpayer, and then lying and dissembling about it, is wrong.
    
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    August 22, 2017 11:03am
- realityczech
  
  “the need for Māori to establish an independent body to monitor the media”
  
  Translation : The media should be censored to be favourable to Maori and the far left.
  
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  August 22, 2017 11:06am
  - sooty
    
    At our expense!
    
    11 0
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    August 22, 2017 12:58pm
- KevOB
  
  Fraud is when a document is signed as true when the statement being made or affirmed is not.
  
  Intent, unless the signing was not intended, is only relevant to penal consequences.
  
  SJ is when the law is obeyed as justice is the outworking of law.
  
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  August 22, 2017 1:39pm
Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes

Much is being made of Dunne’s departure. Frankly, win or lose his seat, writing was on the wall – the baubles of ministerial privilege were gone. Winston would not work with Dunne, and if Winston is kingmaker, the Dunne is gone…..not something the ego can take. If Greg O’Connor wins, (and part of me does hope so)it will cause greater issues within labour – read the standard, most core labour (SJW’s, chardonnay swillers) hate Greg – knives already out over at the strandard. BUT< what media seem to ignore, while fawning over the tooth fairy, is that the Maori party are likely king makers if National maintain 45% – they will likely have 4 seats due to deal with Hone, and the Kingitanga movement support. This surely is a better outcome/prospect for National than dealing with toxic Winnie the poo ?
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August 22, 2017 10:04am
RF

Now that Clark is back in the country after her failed tilt at the UN leadership she will be the medias “go to person” for answers to all our problems.

I hear she is looking for a mountain with a cave near the top so she can hold clinics for the great unwashed who will trek up to her for worldly advice.
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August 22, 2017 10:09am
- Nostradamus
  
  I hear she is looking for a mountain with a cave near the top
  
  Wikipedia lists the options:
  
  Mount Helen may refer to:
  – Mount Helen (Antarctica)
  – Mount Helen (British Columbia) in British Columbia, Canada
  – Mount Helen (California) in California, USA
  – Mount Helen (Colorado) in Colorado, USA
  – Mount Helen (Kansas) in Kansas, USA
  – Mount Helen (Montana) in Montana, USA
  – Mount Helen (Nevada) in Nevada, USA
  – Mount Helen (Wyoming) in Wyoming, USA
  – Mount Helen in Ballarat, Australia
  
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  August 22, 2017 10:12am
  - mikenmild
    
    What about Mount St Helens, famous for blowing its top?
    
    19 1
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    August 22, 2017 10:15am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Reining destruction on the unwashed populace below in the form of hot toxic gasses and rivers of red hot ‘burn to a crisp in a moment’ shit.
      
      1 0
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      August 22, 2017 2:08pm
  - Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
    
    we certainly know that there wont be any mounting of helen by peter davis
    
    19 3
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    August 22, 2017 11:12am
  - fluffykiwi
    
    We won’t be asking Peter Davis any time soon then.
    
    1 1
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    August 22, 2017 7:17pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Not only is the evil bitch back in the country, she’s pulling Jacinderella’s strings and having a crack at the Key Government’s track record in Afghanistan.
  Klarkula was handed the arse card in 2008, why doesn’t she have the dignity to stay the fuck out of NZ politics?
  
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  August 22, 2017 10:48am
  - holysheet
    
    Her and obumma are from the same leftie school of fickwits.
    
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    August 22, 2017 12:29pm
  - fluffykiwi
    
    Didn’t that happen on her watch in 2004 before the Key government started?
    
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    August 22, 2017 7:17pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Well she will know what Jacinda is thinking before Jacinda does.
  
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  August 22, 2017 1:29pm
stigie

“famous for blowing”

Helen’s never done that to Peter !~
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August 22, 2017 10:45am
- mikenmild
  
  Citation please.
  
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  August 22, 2017 10:47am
  - stigie
    
    Ask dad4justmen !
    
    12 1
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    August 22, 2017 10:49am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The only deviant is the one that goes for waitresses pony tails
  
  3 37
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  August 22, 2017 10:51am
  - SteveRemmington
    
    Did he chase her down the road naked?
    
    26 2
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    August 22, 2017 10:59am
    - Longknives
      
      Beware purchasing second-hand Swiss Balls on Trade Me..
      
      13 0
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      August 22, 2017 12:34pm
      - GazzaW
        
        ztev knows all about Trade Me.
        
        4 0
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        August 22, 2017 7:00pm
    - Gabby
      
      He couldn’t get his kit off fast enough rimmers.
      
      4 4
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      August 22, 2017 2:07pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        In the know?
        
        1 0
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        August 22, 2017 2:37pm
  - Swifty
    
    Let’s not forget Panty Slutboy.
    
    Oh, er….
    
    6 0
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    August 22, 2017 1:20pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Imagine if he had touched Jacindas lol.
    
    3 1
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    August 22, 2017 1:31pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    Many years ago we were in Wellington showing the children the sights, when out of Parliament building came one Helen Clark (later to be Prime Minister).
    She was very pleasant to the children and touched my daughter’s long hair as she spoke to her.
    Not a Helen supporter then or now, but I thought at the time that was a nice exchange.
    I didn’t know that I had witnessed my child becoming the victim of a sexual deviant – oh wait, It’s ok when the left do it.
    
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    August 22, 2017 1:44pm
    - Gabby
      
      You got a bottle of wine out of it, right?
      
      3 5
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      August 22, 2017 2:08pm
    - Steve (North Shore)
      
      Troll, but a good troll!
      
      3 0
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      August 22, 2017 6:58pm
  - Garbageman
    
    8+ years Sir John Key played your lot like a fiddle ztev i amuses me immensely that you are still butthurt over him and all you have on Bill is maybe he is or isn’t a true farmer your desperation and ongoing meltdowns are beautiful to watch ..please continue
    
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    August 22, 2017 2:57pm
Kabull

Does anyone have a link to the complete Panel Interview of Bill English? The links in the Herald web site provide only extracts.
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August 22, 2017 11:06am
- ex-golfer
  
  Full video is here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/national-video/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503075&gal_cid=1503075&gallery_id=180636
  Sound quality is really poor and drops out from time to time – technical issues on their end!
  
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  August 22, 2017 11:57am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Of course they were. Technology is so sketchy these days.
    
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    August 22, 2017 1:37pm
  - calendar girl
    
    The video is well worth watching for its full 20 minutes or so. (The sound problems are annoying, but disappear relatively early – after the genius media technicians realised that turning the camera away from English while he was speaking interfered with their sound quality.)
    
    The four political journalists tried quite a few ‘gotchas’ on English, without any success. He was articulate and reasoned throughout, was very well prepared, and provided solid examples from memory that demonstrated his command of facts.
    
    Such an impressive performance that it would have been great to have had Ardern there, trying to debate with him.
    
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    August 22, 2017 5:09pm
    - realityczech
      
      Yeah but I would rather root Ardern.
      
      Which is pretty much the level of thinking that has elevated her.
      
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      August 22, 2017 5:19pm
Manolo

It makes perfect sense. It is time to leave the place:
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/347393-16-years-on-its-past-time-to-bring-our-troops-home-from

The mission in Afghanistan has lost its purpose, and I think it is a terrible idea to send any more troops into that war. It’s time to come home now.
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August 22, 2017 11:46am
DifferentPerspective

Fairytales of the Left – gun control

One weekend, 63 shootings in heavily gun-controlled Chicago.

As always it’s bad to live in a city controlled by the loony lefties of the Democrat party. The Chicago mayor is of course Obama’s former chief of staff –
Rahm Emmanuel (also a Bill Clinton apparatchik).

Rahm is a big believer in the “it’s ok when the left do it” school of thought – having sent a dead fish to a pollster in a Godfather-like message for not having delivered poll results to him in time.
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August 22, 2017 12:01pm
Keeping Stock

Greetings from a sun-soaked island somewhere in the Pacific. It’s a beautiful 27 degrees, and almost time for the first cocktail of the day.

Back this weekend, and it would be nice to hear the Winston Peters had seen the light in the same way as Peter Dunne ?
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August 22, 2017 12:08pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  More chance of a small heart attack, unfortunate as that will be
  
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  August 22, 2017 2:11pm
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Only 27 degrees KS? Not in Hawaii then?
  Winston First will try his best to get his hands on the chequebook under Liarbore, but there are dreamers and dreamers.
  National will win, with my one vote online – through the Internet – from somewhere remote in Alaska. Homer I think, maybe Seldovia! Two ticks blue
  
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  August 22, 2017 7:07pm
dave_c_

I see asshole trougher Goff, indicating the need to consider breaking his promise to keep rates increases to avg of 2.5 %
How any polly is ever elected defies understanding, when we know the outcomes before we vote.
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August 22, 2017 12:15pm
- Longknives
  
  Come now Dave- There are huge extravagant lunches to be paid for..
  
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  August 22, 2017 12:32pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  I thought that it was brilliant Labour Party announcement.
  
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  August 22, 2017 1:38pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  And disrespectful to arseholes everywhere; I am offended!
  
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  August 22, 2017 2:12pm
  - stigie
    
    Easy on Paulus, only the left are allowed to get offended ole chap !~
    
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    August 22, 2017 2:27pm
Shaun the Sheep

No cats up trees anywhere in the world today.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2017/08/donald-trump-tries-to-watch-eclipse-without-glasses.html

How is this news?
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August 22, 2017 12:53pm
- Brigitte
  
  Well it shows that not only is he ignorant of science, he’s ignorantly anti-science. Bigly sad!
  
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  August 22, 2017 1:12pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    Instead of ‘bigly sad’, it is totally irrelevant.
    Who hasn’t sneaked a peak from behind the glasses to see what the difference is?
    That’s what curious minds do.
    Trump derangement syndrome at its most inane.
    
    What will we have tomorrow?
    Video of the time he ran with scissors?
    
    11 5
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    August 22, 2017 1:35pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      Flash.
      Gritty eyes from burning you eyeballs.
      looking at the sun directly is the same as looking at a welding spark.
      
      It takes a special sort of knob to ignore all the warnings on media about looking at the eclipse.
      
      D Trump is a classic case of a Darwin waiting to happen.
      Unfortunately we could all be obliterated by the ape.
      
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      August 22, 2017 1:53pm
- realityczech
  
  It is news to the ignorant bitter losers who hate Trump.
  
  We need a revolution so we can deal with these creeps appropriately.
  
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  August 22, 2017 1:56pm
howitis

This election is not looking good for net taxpayers.

In 2016 in Australia Bill Shorten who is not particularly palatable ran very close to becoming PM.
In 2017 in UK Jeremy Corbyn who is not particularly palatable ran a serious challenge to becoming PM
Both were up against dour uncharismatic leaders.

Pretty boy Macron won in France despite being a nobody 12 months before.
Pretty boy Trudeau won in Canada.
It is no good saying that they are less popular now than when elected.
Most voters only see headlines. They don’t analyse detail.
The NZ media is not allowing people to understand that their tax cuts are at risk and most existing taxpayers will pay more tax to be transferred to those who don’t pay tax now.

Do we really know how much outside influence is being brought into NZ Labour.
From Hipkins’ actions last week we know NZ/AU Labour are close.
We know Klarkenfuhrer is back in the frame and can see why Key canvassed for her staying in the UN.
We know about overseas students via the odious Matt McCarten.
The NZ Media is sickenly pro-Soundbite Cindy and will not allow policy to get much exposure.
eg $10 billion on roads straight away shown as a bribe.
Lots and lots of new Tax – no adverse commentary despite the effect it will have on many people.
What else is not visible so far?

Labour has a lot going for it given the above and as with 2005 they will throw the kitchen sink at being elected no matter what is costs the country. ie net taxpayers.
Outlook: Labour wins. Soundbite Cindy gets preggers in a year (or less) and takes maternity leave while Little or Robertson step up as PM. She did her job and will be rewarded in future. She won’t come back as PM within the next 6 years. Being a mum you see.
It is easier being the incumbent and making the rules than being outside the tent.
They are pulling all the stops.
Ardern and Davis are catalysts for change.
They are not the agents of change.
That is less visible to the electorate.

Labour dumped heavily on the rural sector in the 1980s and it took the sector 15 years to begin recovery. Labour don’t care for rural votes.
They want the cities back esp Central Auckland and Christchurch. They’ve got the big spending Labour mayoralties. They want it all.
Never underestimate ambition. Or nine years of wilderness.

Are National asleep at the wheel?
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August 22, 2017 1:07pm
Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes

The meddling Helen is starting to lift her profile to help the tooth fairy

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96012133/new-zealand-stayed-in-afghanistan-too-long-says-helen-clark

Phil, and successive David’s and an Andrew are asking “why didnt you help me ?” No doubt Grant Robertson is also pondering this question from his trusty position of bringing up the rear…..
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August 22, 2017 1:08pm
Michael

It’s a never ending saga. Time for DPF to start another Bain thread.
Only joking.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11908493
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August 22, 2017 1:36pm
Shawn Herles

Very good guest article over on Pete George’s blog on the failures of modern democracy. The author does not offer any policy solutions, but he nails the problems.

https://yournz.org/2017/08/21/the-futility-of-modern-democracy/
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August 22, 2017 1:37pm
Happychappy

One more hour and we can all see how Jacinda is going to show NZ why she should be the next Prime Minister. My hope is the Herald panel will put the same hard questions to the Labour Leader that they asked Bill English make her answer without beating round the bush like she does now about tax and water, it is not right to answer we will let a panel of experts advise after the Election as it is unfair on the voter and we should know before the Election. Heres hoping she will be found out if given the hard question at 2.30 pm.
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August 22, 2017 1:38pm
realityczech

One of the first things the dirty sub human Obama did was massively increase the war against Afghan civilians. The dotting media responded by running war propaganda for the murderous ape.

Now lets see how they treat a human president :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/96020807/live-donald-trumps-afghanistan-plan
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August 22, 2017 1:40pm
Stars And Stripes

One of the most unwelcome things that have come from globalization for S&S has been the creation of the foreign call centre for helpdesk enquiries.
Yes I know they are cheap but you only get what you pay for frankly as most of the wogs who staff these places speak pigeon English and the experience is more like dialling for a takeaway at your local vibrant.
Personally I would be happy to pay a couple of dollars more on my utility bill if it meant I did not have to deal with these monkeys.
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August 22, 2017 1:51pm
- Brigitte
  
  They do an english test before hiring. Mujeba went for an interview and was asked to put yellow, green, and pink into a sentence (if he did, the job was his). He thought a moment and answered “The phone goes green green, I pink it up and say yellow, Mujeba here”. He got the job.
  
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  August 22, 2017 2:25pm
Manolo

Just consider the possibility:
http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/peters-could-be-finance-minister-national/ar-AAquTr2?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=mailsignout

Bill English doesn’t want NZ First leader Winston Peters anywhere near monetary policy.

But the National Party leader hasn’t ruled him out as the next finance minister.
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August 22, 2017 1:52pm
- Kabull
  
  I thought he made it pretty clear he wouldn’t want Peters as Finance Minister. His line was more that we will need the electorate to tell us what they want – so if you want to keep Peters away, make sure a strong Nat govt is re-elected.
  
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  August 22, 2017 2:08pm
- Longknives
  
  I consider the possibility of the perpetually offended Jacinda ‘You’re a sexist pig if you criticise me’ Adern as Prime Minister of a Government propped up by loony Greens far more terrifying!
  Christ National give Winston whatever he wants-Save our Economy from the Coalition from Hell..
  
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  August 22, 2017 2:22pm
  - JasonJohns
    
    The future if Lab-Greens are elected: bankruptcy, dictatorship, civil war, depopulation, the abandonment of large areas of the NI. ‘If they are elected this will be the last election for a long, long time’ – pundit
    
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    August 22, 2017 2:34pm
    - mikenmild
      
      You forget to mention boiling seas, plagues of insects, and cats and dogs living together…
      
      5 3
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      August 22, 2017 3:11pm
Manolo

Meanwhile, the communist Greens push for new taxes:
http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/nows-the-time-for-cgt-greens/ar-AAqv3b1?ocid=mailsignout

A capital gains tax on everything but the family home just makes sense, Green Party leader James Shaw says.

The party has backed the idea for more than a decade but Mr Shaw says now is the time to get on with it.
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August 22, 2017 1:54pm
- KevOB
  
  Another amateur and without honour too.
  
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  August 22, 2017 5:59pm
krazykiwi

It’s 2pm. Cindy has another 15 minutes to swat up on the questions she’s no doubt quietly been provided in advance of her fireside chat.
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August 22, 2017 1:58pm
Manolo

A good read:
Conservatives will never turn back the leftist tide swamping our society unless they adopt the techniques the Left uses to push its agenda down our throats. Conservatives, being decent and reasonable, often assume that the Left will be reasonable too, if only everyone can sit down and talk things over. Dream on. If conservatives want to avoid living in a leftist dystopia they must stop pussy-footing around and get tough.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/08/time-to-toughen-up/
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August 22, 2017 2:06pm
Manolo

The chief seller of smoke and unabashed progressive is under scrutiny:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-real-catholic-question-conservative-theologians-tradition-action-fatima-vatican-a7904931.html
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August 22, 2017 2:14pm
JasonJohns

Another big win for Trump. He used the eclipse to show his guts, staring without glasses. Of course the lamestream media mistakes his guts and commitment for something else, but this is what a people’s hero does
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/aug/22/not-too-bright-trump-trolled-for-staring-at-the-eclipse-with-no-eye-protection bah!
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August 22, 2017 2:28pm
- sam green
  
  Real men don’t need protection.
  
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  August 22, 2017 9:46pm
JasonJohns

Fox news anchor Tucker Carlson was impressed by Trump’s actions, saying that it was “perhaps the most impressive thing any president has ever done.”
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August 22, 2017 2:30pm
JasonJohns

Uptick if you agree that Trump is a HERO for staring at the eclipse.
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August 22, 2017 2:32pm
JasonJohns

The solar eclipse: god’s way of endorsing science and the Bible
https://pjmedia.com/faith/2017/08/21/the-incredible-miracle-of-a-solar-eclipse/
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August 22, 2017 2:33pm
- realityczech
  
  PREACH !!!!
  
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  August 22, 2017 3:14pm
Rodney Randall

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/national/96032115/Sinead-Boucher-named-new-Stuff-chief-executive-officer

“In 2015, Boucher was awarded Fairfax’s internal Woman of Influence award in recognition role she has had in advancing gender diversity, at Fairfax and beyond.”

What does advancing gender diversity mean?
Embracing Facebook’s 71 Gender pronouns?
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August 22, 2017 2:41pm
Hugh Pavletich

Fears of being locked out of housing market worry residents on Auckland’s North Shore … Fairfax / Stuff NZ

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/north-shore-times/95579408/fears-of-being-being-locked-out-of-housing-market-worry-residents-on-aucklands-north-shore

Housing affordability and high rents are the main worry for over 900 North Shore residents living in the Northcote electorate, according to a poll conducted by Labour’s electoral candidate.

More than a third, 35 per cent, of respondents said they were worried about first home buyers being locked out of the housing market.

The next biggest concern, among 23 per cent of residents, was housing affordability … read more via hyperlink above …
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August 22, 2017 2:49pm
- Happychappy
  
  Hugh if your such a hotshot why are you posting here when you have your own site. Is it true people can’t be bother going to your site as you are a senile bitter hater of John Key.
  
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  August 22, 2017 3:06pm
JasonJohns

McCain probably tried to SURRENDER to the eclipse.

Trump stared it boldly down.

American.

Hero.
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August 22, 2017 2:53pm
- mikenmild
  
  He’s just like Tintin in Prisoners of the Sun, commanding the Sun to reappear and thus establishing credibility with the Incas.
  
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  August 22, 2017 3:09pm
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    HAHA – uptick for me. I loved that book….
    
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    August 22, 2017 5:48pm
MCos

Headline of the day:
‘China May Be Using Sea to Hide Submarines’

Shock Horror
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August 22, 2017 3:18pm
rightoverlabour

Idiots

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/21/leftists-smash-christopher-columbus-monument/

Is this our future too?
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August 22, 2017 3:26pm
- mikenmild
  
  Columbus has for a long time been considered a symbol of everything bad about the European conquest of the Americas – slavery, genocide, etc, etc.
  From one perspective, historical monuments are neutral reminders of the past. For many others, their value is linked to the motives of those who deemed such figures to be worthy of public honour.
  
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  August 22, 2017 3:33pm
  - JasonJohns
    
    whites first to america
    yeeeessss!
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9110838/Stone-age-Europeans-were-the-first-to-set-foot-on-North-America.html
    
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    August 22, 2017 3:39pm
    - Gabby
      
      No staying power jizzyjocks, that’s the trouble.
      
      2 0
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      August 22, 2017 5:41pm
  - Longknives
    
    Quite right Mikenmild- We should also burn all History texts and have them re-written by ‘Progressive’ BLM Scholars…
    
    4 3
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    August 22, 2017 3:49pm
    - mikenmild
      
      I don’t know that anyone would go so far as book burning, but then again, no one is making Washington Irving’s dubious tales of Columbus into an artefact for public commemoration.
      
      2 3
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      August 22, 2017 3:54pm
  - realityczech
    
    “Columbus ”
    
    Tell us how the blacks and browns so peacefully expanded their cultures …. ????
    
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    August 22, 2017 5:50pm
- Longknives
  
  They have already removed Woodrow Wilson’s name from Schools and Universities- seems the Loony Left have the Lincoln Memorial in their sights as well..
  
  http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/15/politics/lincoln-memorial-vandalized/index.html
  
  And anyone who thinks this couldn’t happen here? Just look at all the revolting ‘Old White Men’ and ‘Pale,Male and Stale’ calls being thrown around by Labour and Greens supporters here (clearly trying to drum up Racial Hatred)
  If they lose the Election the shitbags will likely erupt in violence here as well..
  
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  August 22, 2017 3:45pm
  - mikenmild
    
    Wait till the James Cook 250th celebrations in 2019…
    
    7 1
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    August 22, 2017 3:50pm
    - Longknives
      
      Mikey- I’m so ashamed I used to drink (lots) in the old Captain Cook Tavern at Otago University!
      How could I possibly purge myself of this terrible burden of White Guilt?
      
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      August 22, 2017 4:11pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Can’t wait.
      
      I’ve started crocheting genuine Captain Cook artifacts.
      I’ll be down at my beach selling them to suckas.
      http://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-recreation/places-to-go/east-coast/places/gisborne-area/cook-landing-site/
      
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      August 22, 2017 5:03pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Green Party loses 2 top staff.

Joss Debreceny has resigned as political director, and Deborah Morris-Travers has resigned as chief of Staff.

Pushed? or Rodents leaving a sinking ship?
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August 22, 2017 3:27pm
- calendar girl
  
  Either way. Probably out of funds as well.
  
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  August 22, 2017 5:26pm
starboard

Greens imploding..

“More turmoil for the Green Party, they’re losing two key staffers from top strategic positions.
Joss Debreceny has resigned as political director, and Deborah Morris-Travers has resigned as chief of Staff.
We’ll have more details soon, but both would have had key roles in pushing the stunt acted by Metiria Turei, that backfired so spectacularly.”
14 0
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August 22, 2017 3:32pm
Captain Mainwaring

Jacindazilla is telling us it’s time to have a conversation about becoming a republic.
She would, wouldn’t she, with President Clark looking over her shoulder.
But she forgot to include the word ‘banana’.
12 6
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August 22, 2017 3:46pm
- MCos
  
  Time to move on, old chap.
  It’s time New Zealand had a Head of State who was capable of maintaining a presence in the country, not one who has only been here about a dozen times in the last sixty years & only once this century.
  
  1 14
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  August 22, 2017 4:01pm
  - Gabby
    
    So Peter Thiel doesn’t do it for you? That might be … unfortunate.
    
    4 1
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    August 22, 2017 5:38pm
  - Happychappy
    
    So obviously you were born in this country and have a preference. Maybe someone from the Left would be suitable and meet your standards.
    
    3 1
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    August 22, 2017 5:54pm
  - Jack5
    
    MCos, New Zealand at present has a pseudo-republic with the stability of a monarchy, and without the extra layer of government a republic would bring.
    
    Our pseudo-republic, faux monarchy, has an absent monarch with virtually no political power or say, but gives us a few light ceremonial tools.
    
    Our present constitutional set-up gives us a very light government – no federal strand, no upper house, and no presidential layer with the flunkies and bureaucrats who would come with that.
    
    Also, who are the potential presidents? Helen Clark? Jim Bolger? Would there be an election for them? I doubt it, the government of the day would select them.
    
    We have a fine political system now. Leave it alone.
    
    6 0
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    August 22, 2017 6:07pm
- Longknives
  
  Since when do The Left ‘have conversations’ about such matters??
  
  ‘Comrades,Comrades, Comrades I have, on advice of my mentor Comrade Clark, hereby decreed The People’s Republic of Aotearoa’…
  
  9 1
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  August 22, 2017 4:04pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Next they will change the flag. Which submitted one will they choose.
  
  2 0
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  August 22, 2017 11:36pm
Prince

Beware if you are called by a ‘Community Engagement Poll’.
It’s Labour looking for ‘volunteers/interns’.
Maybe Ardern’s drawing power is waning ?
If Russell Brown thinks it is dodgy enough to mention, it must be extremely deceitful – towards the end of this link.

https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/where-are-all-the-polls-at/
6 0
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August 22, 2017 3:59pm
- KKKKatee
  
  I shall be telling them very politely, of course, to naff off!
  
  6 0
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  August 22, 2017 4:15pm
KKKKatee

Make no mistake re Jacinda Ardern’s agenda. She’s talking Republic now! She’s gone full batshit crazy. And, also, proposing to introduce a capital gains tax on your rental and/or holiday home! And the stupid thing is that all those inflicted with the Jacindavirus can’t see past the fact that the Labour horse just has a new jockey!!!!!!! Same old nag…..
17 1
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August 22, 2017 4:09pm
- Jack5
  
  If Ardern is talking republic, that means the Left plan is for Helen Clark to be first president!
  
  16 1
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  August 22, 2017 4:19pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Noooooooooooooooo 🙁
    
    I’m no fan of cloth-ears Charlie, but I’d have him as head of state a thousands time over if Clark was the alternative.
    
    13 1
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    August 22, 2017 4:35pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Maybe he would run for election as our president.
      
      2 2
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      August 22, 2017 6:13pm
      - GazzaW
        
        Are you joking? There won’t be an election for President. The votes will be limited to MPs of the governing party.
        
        7 0
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        August 22, 2017 7:11pm
  - Jack5
    
    “No pasarán!”
    
    New Zealand as a republic under President Clark would be worse than the country being seized by a Mexican drug cartel.
    
    Labour must be stopped. Adern doesn’t want to govern New Zealand. She wants to present it as a trophy to the loathsome Clark.
    
    13 3
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    August 22, 2017 4:36pm
- Ross12
  
  Not just the rental but possibly on the sale of the family business. I can see all the tradies loving that.
  
  4 0
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  August 22, 2017 7:18pm
VicParking

Whale Oil is running Labour Party adverts.
I dontbneedvto say anymore……….?
7 0
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August 22, 2017 4:30pm
- Jack5
  
  I dunno, Vic. Here’s Whale talking about Ardern:
  
  We’re running out of ways to bastardise her name, but I’m starting to think Jysteria. It seems that if a younger attractive person smiles and says the very same things that an older gruff guy said less than a month ago, suddenly it’s GREAT!
  
  7 0
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  August 22, 2017 4:46pm
- realityczech
  
  I hope you washed after going there.
  
  3 1
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  August 22, 2017 4:48pm
  - Jack5
    
    Hi Kea!
    
    Be aware, President Klark will declare you mountain parrots a pest with the same rights as a possum – to die slow or to die quick.
    
    When the President of Aotearoa and her mates go up the foothills, the keas near the tops wake her with their screeching.
    
    It’s like a nightmare. Mrs Klark thinks for a second either that she’s back in Parliament being mauled, or, on really bad days, that the uproar is critics rumbling her art sideline.
    
    By the way, I think I read old Griff was accusing you of pigeon chess (knocking over the pieces and leaving bird shit on the board). Griff has no idea how smart the Kea is.
    
    11 2
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    August 22, 2017 4:59pm
    - realityczech
      
      This “Kea” entity of which you speak seems to incite intemperance among the devout.
      
      Lucia had a vision that informed her a plague of Kea had fallen upon KB 50 strong and demands 50 contributors be banned !
      
      She also believes radical Islam is created by Putin LOL 🙂
      
      6 1
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      August 22, 2017 5:41pm
      - Jack5
        
        This “Kea” entity of ~~which you~~ speak …
        
        Have some reverence, RCz :
        
        This “Kea,” of whom ye speak ….
        
        A clever, clever bird.
        
        3 0
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        August 22, 2017 6:11pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      Griff does.
      It ain’t that smart.
      Tom Hunter nailed it the best
      
      2 4
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      August 22, 2017 6:25pm
      - realityczech
        
        Griff maybe you should “nail” some pussy instead of getting wasted and writing crap on blogs.
        
        6 2
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        August 22, 2017 6:29pm
      - Jack5
        
        Griff, not many parrots clever enough to wrestle with string theory, as our Kea does.
        
        3 0
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        August 22, 2017 6:29pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Kea and string theory
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpYvVffAlW8
        
        watch from 5:00 min
        
        0 0
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        August 22, 2017 7:07pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Time_Cube
        
        0 2
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        August 22, 2017 7:27pm
- Happychappy
  
  Blubber ran another of his polls and his crowd voted 76% to support National so he got washed by his loyal supporters. People have got a bit anxious about recent poll and flocked back to National, Blubber won’t be pleased.
  
  10 1
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  August 22, 2017 5:05pm
Monique Watson

Game on! Boeing and Northrop outbid Lockheed Martin to build some serious firepower. The Hermit Kingdom is locking to take a poke at the Mainland. Trump has got all advisers on High Alert.
I wouldn’t mind some popcorn. Helps with digesting the gin, and is an all-around mainstay for Beer pong.
2 0
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August 22, 2017 5:01pm
wiseowl

Not sure if this was reported correctly on the radio news but if English said that a new Government can’t renegotiate the TTP then that is the sort of comment that shows total arrogance.
If it is a threat and he seems to have admitted that countries in the agreement can buy up New Zealand , then it is infuriating.
Keep the TPP secret .
Agreeing to placing our own working population up against millions in competing to buy a house is sheer stupidity and shows globalisation is winning and we are fast becoming tenants in our own country.
Not good enough National.
3 4
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August 22, 2017 5:17pm
Piniwi

Like it or not the Media party are voters too. There seems to be indications the honeymoon is ending as Taxinda won’t give out. Even today their immigration policy seems to not actually be “the” policy. They might roll it back from 20,000 or 30,000 as in her words she is not “wed to it”? What does that mean? Then every other possible policy will be referred to a panel of experts after the election.
Sooner or later the Media party will get to realise the prospects of being heavily taxed applies to them too. Perhaps they will start to ask another question instead of letting her off the hook. The fun is just beginning as the cracks are starting to show.
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August 22, 2017 5:17pm
Jack5

Fairfax Media Ltd has rebranded its NZ branch.

It is no longer Fairfax NZ. It is now just ~~Stuffed~~ Stuff.

Could this be a preliminary to a new attempt to merge the chain’s newspapers (such as Christchurch Press, Wellington Dominion-Post, Waikato Times) with NZME, owner of the Hooerald and Newstalk ZB?
6 0
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August 22, 2017 5:33pm
- realityczech
  
  There are bigger troubles. Facebook, Twitter, Google etc are all working to shut down other points of view.
  
  A Google search does not give you web results. The rankings are manipulated and some things will not show at all.
  
  NZ ers are already brain washed and further conglomeration of media will only reinforce that.
  
  6 3
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  August 22, 2017 5:47pm
Manolo

Will it happen?
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/21/tax-cut-odds-may-be-going-up-with-trumps-troubles.html
3 0
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August 22, 2017 5:43pm
- Brigitte
  
  #Winning
  #erWhatsTheGame
  #ItsObamasFault
  #IfOnlyWeControlledHouseAndCongress
  #OhCrap
  
  2 2
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  August 22, 2017 6:05pm
lifesgood

Good God! Not content with pissing off most people in NZ now Labour are pissing off all the old people who quite like having a Queen as head of state, thank you very much. They are a bunch of loonies, trying to get elected by annoying the hell out of everyone. WO has an interesting informal poll they have had running for a few months now on who you would give your party vote to. A few months ago all the gung ho “I’m going to teach National a lesson” types meant that only 48% of respondents would give their party vote to National. The poll taken yesterday shows that 76% will now give it to National. Seems like some people have at last used their noggins. The alternative is not worth contemplating.
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August 22, 2017 6:23pm
realityczech

People wonder how the left can be so sympathetic to Islam, focusing on women’s rights and other obiter nonsense.

In fact Sharia law is pure socialism. Look past the hysteria and propaganda. Sharia promises a socialist paradise.

Two ticks Green [The colour of Islam] Inshallah
2 3
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August 22, 2017 6:34pm
Happychappy

Can some one please explain to me why it is NZ job to help a person that left NZ to get a better life in Australia and now expects NZ taxpayer to help pay for his health care and living costs will he recovers from being badly injured after a car mounted the footpath and run him down. Australia won’t help which they say is unfair but are pissed the NZ Government won’t help either. While i feel sorry for him the NZ Government never ask him to go live in Australia and most people that go to live there buy insurance to cover them self in case this happens to them.
4 2
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August 22, 2017 7:31pm
- Gabby
  
  Best if he just dies quietly chappy?
  
  1 2
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  August 22, 2017 8:38pm
  - holysheet
    
    yes, what else.
    
    0 0
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    August 22, 2017 8:46pm
- Scorpion
  
  Are you
  A. Too Lazy to work in Australia
  B. Too Thick an unskilled
  
  C. JUST A W A NKER
  
  D. All of the Above
  
  0 1
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  August 23, 2017 12:50am
RF

If the PREFU tomorrow is around 1.5 b. What was that’s tricky bastard Michael Cullen’s PREFU when they were last in power and getting their arse handed by National.

I would be interested to know……
2 0
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August 22, 2017 8:12pm
- mikenmild
  
  For those too stupid to use Google:
  http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/forecasts/prefu2008
  
  3 1
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  August 22, 2017 8:58pm
Gabby

You know, I’m beginning to wonder if maybe double bunking in gaol isn’t too flash an idea, especially for preventive detention cases. Just a feeling.
3 2
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August 22, 2017 8:45pm
RF

Gabby.. is that a proposition or invitation.

Do you want to sweeten the pot ?

I will let you touch my baton..
2 1
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August 22, 2017 8:50pm
- Gabby
  
  If you’re lucky it’ll still be in operation when your trail of broken fingers catches up with you rf rf.
  
  0 0
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  August 23, 2017 10:00am
Viking2

I see tonight that the entitled first movers of NZ now want the Auckland buses, train and ferries to be done over in Te Reo.
Would have thought it was somewhat obvious that there are more Asians than Maori in Auckland and the perhaps Chinese or even Tongan or Samoan would have been in front of Te Reo.

Rust never sleeps and neither do these entitled fools.
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August 22, 2017 9:19pm
- Jack5
  
  How soon before there’s a push to rename Auckland as Tamaki?
  
  The Maori names for the North Island and South Island don’t seem to have become popular, but Taranaki seems to have stuck for Mt Egmont (it was supposed to have become a dual name), though Mt Cook still is heard far more than Aoraki in the south.
  
  4 0
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  August 22, 2017 10:44pm
  - Inandout
    
    Tamaki, after the good Bishop?
    
    1 0
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    August 24, 2017 7:43am
- Digmen1
  
  I am very annoyed that our local Polytech changed its name to some unpronounceable Maori name.
  
  Maori is hardly the language of world literature or scientific learning.
  
  Its all part of the lefts social engineering plan.
  
  1 0
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  August 23, 2017 12:36pm
Jack5

Ahoy, military history buffs!

Tomorrow, 23rd August, is the 75th anniversary of the official start of one of the greatest battles in history and perhaps the turning point of World War 2: the Battle for Stalingrad.
4 0
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August 22, 2017 10:37pm
- Gabby
  
  A day of bitter tears for EADolf2.
  
  0 0
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  August 23, 2017 10:01am

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