General Debate 20 July 2017

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Kimbo

A reminder:

1. A vote for NZ First aids the possibility of the Greens in government. Only voting National closes that door.

2. Metiria Turei is the best anti-Green vote incentive in years…so why would you want her kicked out of Parliament and have her replaced as female co-leader by someone photogenic, who can feign ‘reasonable’, and who wont scare the punters like Julie Ann Genter?

This political message was brought to you by Kimbo Enterprises.
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July 20, 2017 8:04am
- EAD_TWO
  
  Any idea Kimbo when we might get those “full and final” Treaty settlements we were promised in the 2008 general election?
  
  To be honest – you’ve summed it up well in that voting National is not a vote for them, but rather a vote against the alternative (Greens) which is too bad to contemplate
  
  Pretty uninspiring stuff if you ask EAD.
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:39am
  - Kimbo
    
    Full and final? Takes two to tango.
    
    Uninspiring? Welcome to democracy where everyone loses. And on that score, with National you lose less. Don’t like it and still want to believe in political fairy tales? Far be it from me to stop you joining some Children’s Crusade…
    
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    July 20, 2017 8:56am
    - Jigsaw
      
      What is the ‘takes two to tango’ supposed to mean? This National government has been so totally dishonest over the Maori settlements that it doesn’t deserve to have a vote. Their own constitution talks about an equal society but they have gone in exactly the opposite direction. I really hope that they suffer in the coming election-they richly deserve it.
      
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      July 20, 2017 10:48am
  - cmm
    
    There will never be a full and final settlement because the land value will keep increasing due to development and different tribes will view eachother’s settlements with envy.
    
    Ngai Tahu settled in 1998 then demanded a “top up” in 2013.
    
    A cheque you can cash as often as you want! How cool is that!
    
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    July 20, 2017 10:46am
    - Jigsaw
      
      Ngai Tahu had a ‘full and final settlement in 1944.
      
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      July 20, 2017 10:49am
      - kowtow
        
        1868, 1906, 1944, 1973 and “the $170 million settlement in 1997 was the tribe’s fifth.”
        
        They do very well out of the taxpayer ,thank you very much.
        
        https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/complaint-industry-still-rambles
        
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        July 20, 2017 11:03am
    - cmm
      
      These “full and final” settlements will continue until we make a distinction between the value of the land at the time it was taken/bought/stolen and the value of the land now.
      
      The new value is due to the development, not the value of the raw land. Nga Tahu have been paid for the raw land many times over.
      
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      July 20, 2017 11:33am
  - Longknives
    
    “Any idea Kimbo when we might get those “full and final” Treaty settlements we were promised in the 2008 general election?”
    
    I think we all know the answer to that.
    Certainly not in any of our lifetimes…
    
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    July 20, 2017 1:13pm
- Manolo
  
  The best Kimbo I’ve read lately. Keep it up, mate. 🙂
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:40am
- Liberty
  
  Would the Greens still be a pack of raving Marxist under Julie Ann Genter?
  If there was a move by the Greens back to its environmental roots.
  Would there be less hostility towards National?
  
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  July 20, 2017 11:22am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Being in a position where over and over again, one’s best option is voting for the party that is least awful is what led to Trump’s rise.
  
  I cannot agree with you more strongly that the Greens and Labour would be inconceivably bad for the country – however as the old saying goes “all that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing”. National are very badly off course, and to do nothing and continue to vote for them allows them to tell themselves they’ve got public support and to carry on their disasterous course!
  
  Winston’s star is not rising because he’s become a class act all of a sudden, it’s rising because National are so awful. And if National are not given a strong message this time around, then the disenfranchisement will be even stronger in 2020 and the protest vote will bigger against them.
  
  Do we really want to follow in the US footsteps and make choices between:
  – awful, and
  – terrible
  every three years until the mood of the public drives them to vote for a disruptive, divisive, game-changer like Trump.
  
  While I am thoroughly enjoying the theatre of Trump’s reign – I want stability, sensibility and moderation here. Paula Bennett was channelling pure Helen Clark today when she was scolding employers for their made-up pay equity thought crimes. That’s irrational socialism, it’s not what you would expect from a saner, traditional National government.
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:39pm
mister nui

Can any of you lot help me set-up a kickstarter page – I want to raise some money to take out some ads in/on the Chinese and Indian language newspapers/radio stations. The ads will read:

If you’re not overtaking on the motorway, get out of the fucking fast lane!
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July 20, 2017 8:05am
- Colville
  
  and add to your ad…
  
  If you are in the left lane dont speed up when someone goes to pass you!
  
  (I am sure others have bits they want to add to the ad as well 🙂 )
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:14am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Why single out the Chinese and Indians? The worst offenders are Kiwis of all hues.
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:24am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    I have noticed more slow drivers in the center lane on the motorway.
    In Japan it is illegal to cruise in the overtaking (fast) lane. You must keep to the left lane unless overtaking.
    Yes, in Japan they drive on the left too (but you probably know that).
    
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    July 20, 2017 10:31am
    - kaykaybee
      
      Why irritates me is that here large semi trucks have no express way/motorway lane restrictions and routinely use the inside (fast)lane. It’s just so wrong on all counts.
      
      It’s illegal in certain countries – why not NZ.
      
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      July 20, 2017 10:59am
      - Ed Snack
        
        I usually don’t find trucks to be the problem, though of course they can be. For me as I don’t often drive on motorways now, it’s the slow drivers with no awareness of the traffic build up behind them, who accelerate like crazy the moment they enter a passing lane. Even had the odd one or two that don’t just accelerate at the start, but actively brake at the end as well !
        
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        July 20, 2017 11:46am
  - mister nui
    
    I don’t disagree. However, in my experience, it is the Chinese and Indian woman who make a beeline for the inside lane, as soon as they merge onto the motorway (generally without even looking), then stay there. I think that they feel more secure there, because they then don’t have to contend with the merging traffic.
    
    Ultimately, the problem is with our motorway design – on-ramps are nowhere near long enough, and there should be a minimum of 3 lanes on all motorways. Auckland should have 6 lanes in each direction from Silverdale to Drury.
    
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    July 20, 2017 10:35am
- thedavincimode
  
  This driving contagion isn’t confined to those of the Asian persuasion. It is now uniform behaviour just like holding up traffic driving by at 75 kph, towing trailers (esp &^%&%& horse trailers/floats) and ignoring all opportunities to pullover and let others past.
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:25am
  - jcuk
    
    As I slowly backed out with my indicator flashing from my handicap park I was struck[not literally] by the number of cars which wizzed by eager to leave the supermarket .
    
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    July 20, 2017 9:22am
    - thedavincimode
      
      Doing not less than 40 kph I expect, so there’s no chance of seeing them coming.
      
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      July 20, 2017 9:48am
  - thedavincimode
    
    I expect one of those downtickers is the selfish fuckwitted prick driving the terminally under-powered horse float I encountered the other day. The tosspot who couldn’t be bothered pulling the aforementioned heap of shit over into the passing bay as it grovelled up a hill at 15 kph.
    
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    July 20, 2017 12:12pm
- Padriv Ustoev
  
  If you are reversing in a car park look behind you!
  
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  July 20, 2017 10:13am
- kowtow
  
  While you’re at it ,how about an ad for every other driver who seems to think you can drive and text at the same time.
  
  In my experience ,all colours ,all ages.
  
  To think these idiots get a vote.
  
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  July 20, 2017 11:07am
Paulus Gnome

I only passed School Cert metalwork and am mystified by some sums; can someone who passed maths, help me please as Mr Robertson has not explained the working very clearly.

Mr Robertson says ‘Among the big-ticket spending capital items in the four-year plan is $2 billion on the Kiwibuild policy, aimed at building 10,000 new homes a year for 10 years,’

10 years x 10,000 houses = 100,000 units for $2,000,000,000.00 which equates to $20,000.00 per unit.

At $20,000.00 for a house, I’ll have a dozen on my front lawn!

Assuming that that figure is for four years of house building, that the article does not clarify, the houses become $50,000.00 each, being approximately 1½ times the benefit fraud (estimated) by someone on perhaps $160,000 pa x 15 years

However, even over four years, the $50k house at say $2,000.00 per m² becomes 25m² which seems pretty small (I have a 60m² house so have a very good idea of this size) without the cost of the land.

The question is, who is going to live in these 25m² houses going to be built for the figures Mr Robertson has given?
(20 marks)

And where?
(10 marks)

Tuataperere?
(0 Marks)

Can someone help a lapsed sheet-metal worker out with this one please?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11892766
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July 20, 2017 8:05am
- Lance
  
  How dare you ask for details and facts
  So many people find them inconvenient these days
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:10am
  - DifferentPerspective
    
    Facts are a construct of the alt-Right, don’t you know!
    
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    July 20, 2017 8:43pm
- chris
  
  I think the idea is they throw a couple of billion into the fund and start building houses. Once built, they sell them and the proceeds go back into the fund to build more houses.
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:19am
  - Prince
    
    Sell them ? Isn’t the whole idea to rent them at minimal (subsidised) rental to the poor starving masses forever ?
    
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    July 20, 2017 8:29am
    - chris
      
      No, I don’t think these are meant to be like subsidised rental state houses. It’s Labour thinking they can magically build houses cheaper than the industry can.
      
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      July 20, 2017 8:41am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep….
    or as Labour puts it… they’ll “recycle” the $2B.
    http://www.labour.org.nz/kiwibuild
    Sorry Paulus Gnome, you can’t have a dozen…. they are for first-home buyers only.
    
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    July 20, 2017 8:33am
    - stephen2d
      
      Ah, the myth of perpetuum mobile is alive in Labour’s heads!
      
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      July 20, 2017 9:38am
  - thedavincimode
    
    How many will they be keeping to house their overseas interns? Will the interns be helping to build them?
    
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    July 20, 2017 8:37am
    - Gabby
      
      The interns are working at the Warehouse now. The pay is way the same.
      
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      July 20, 2017 11:39am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        You are quite droll, albeit delusional lol 😉
        
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        July 20, 2017 2:23pm
- Colville
  
  Paulus
  I think Gruntas maths skills are somewhat below yours.
  and I doubt he can even turn an oxy acet plant on!
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:20am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    And I forgot to factor in the $10,000.00 Watercare connection!
    
    100,000 houses x $10,000.00 Auckland Watercare equals a lazy $bil, 50% of the budget and I haven’t even put the apron on yet!
    
    I see a blow out here rather than the blow job Mr Robertson is trying to give the taxpayer
    
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    July 20, 2017 10:09am
- waikatogirl
  
  But how much does it cost to build a castle?
  Gaining your deposit from a case of fraud against the taxpayer, build your castle, build capital gain on your castle…
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:02am
- VicParking
  
  As with all Labour policy, they have big numbers and no detail or practicability.
  Its the Lotto principle, $8,000,000 to be won but no numbers on the chance of someone winning the big prize.
  The lost million have a codi in one hand a cigi in the other so have no space for a pencil to work out that its all bullshit.
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:12am
- KevOB
  
  What else do you expect from Poohbar Jnr. who once served a term as a clerk working on visas and passports?
  
  Could Poohbar Jnr. hold a conversation with the Governor of the Reserve Bank? Does he know the difference between monetary policy and money trees?
  
  The pinata is up for whacking.
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:19am
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  There is always someone who is just difficult and just has to ask awkward questions. How the hell is Robertson supposed to get traction when people are always having a dig at his mathematical genius? How is it possible to run the Country’s Finances when little tiny mistakes are blown out of proportion?
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:57am
  - KevOB
    
    Who’s he going to get to assist–his wife? They often do the books.
    
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    July 20, 2017 9:59am
    - sooty
      
      Been a bus driver, he would be good at mathmatics giving change.
      
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      July 20, 2017 4:35pm
      - Left Right and Centre
        
        yep – mind you, getting ever closer to cashless society.
        Now to sprinkle that with some KB – making it harder and harder for the likes of Meteria to get away with ripping off clean taxpayers.
        
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        July 21, 2017 4:14am
Lance

It’s another great day here in NZ
First Covfefe of the morning, second not far away
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July 20, 2017 8:07am
Happychappy

When does the words and fact that 24,000 people do not have adequate housing turn into 24,000 people in NZ are homeless and the media can’t tell the difference when Labour, Andrew Little and Phil Twyford blatantly tell lies to them. These people started with 40,000 homeless fifteen months ago and found out the public are not mugs so now they have Lowered the figure to gain more traction and the media get behind their lies again and pump it for all its worth.
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July 20, 2017 8:08am
- Gabby
  
  Some chappies think garages are homes, some people think that’s crappy.
  
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  July 20, 2017 11:42am
- Lance
  
  Same as when 60% of monitored rivers are exceeding nitrate levels to “60% of all rivers in NZ have excessive nitrate levels”.
  The difference is 60% vs 0.3% (yes I actually ran the numbers)
  
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  July 20, 2017 12:21pm
- Longknives
  
  ‘24,000 people homeless and dying’ on Auckland Streets I just heard on the Radio!
  Quick question? If one of them dies on my street who do I call? Will the Council come and take it away??
  
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  July 20, 2017 1:18pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    Someone tragically died in the doorway of a church and the shocked and grieving minister appeared on tv this evening.
    I wondered why the door was locked when there are homeless folk about. Perhaps they hadn’t paid tithes.
    
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    July 20, 2017 8:15pm
  - realityczech
    
    Penny ?
    
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    July 20, 2017 8:20pm
duggledog

Limbo

Kiwis don’t think that deeply about politics, the ramifications and the intrigue of it like you and I might.

Winston Peters is going to be in Government with Bill & Co.

Labour, the Greens etc are much diminished; there will be no multi headed hydra with NZF in it.

English won’t have the numbers to rule out Winston like Key did. National will have to suck it up. I’d actually far rather have Winston forcing a couple of dead rats on National than the racist Maori Party
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July 20, 2017 8:08am
- mister nui
  
  Agree, especially if one of those “dead rats” is a referendum on the maori seats in parliament.
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:10am
  - Gabby
    
    He’s already changed his tune on that one.
    
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    July 20, 2017 11:43am
    - DifferentPerspective
      
      That was fake news.
      
      Here is Winnie’s statement helping the lying, cheating journos to stop telling porkies.
      
      You have to remember, the fake news MSM are always lying to us – they are the opposition.
      
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      July 20, 2017 8:49pm
- SGA
  
  Limbo? From what I’ve seen he bends over backwards for nobody 🙂
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:10am
- Kimbo
  
  Not necessarily. If the Labour vote collapses sufficiently like National’s did in 2002 such that Little doesn’t make it in – and bear in mind Peters is the one who has highlighted that not implausible scenario – and NZ First and the Greens are the primary beneficiaries (which they would be), then there is the possibility Peters could be the PM in the three-headed hydra. Compared to Minister of something-or-other with National and English.
  
  You know in your heart of heats what he will choose! 😉
  
  Shane Jones won’t like it, but just ask Peters’ former deputies Tau Henare and Brendan Horan what happens when you don’t stay in line with the boss. 😉
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:15am
  - Gruffydd
    
    National is too far left so vote for a party even further to the left to pull national right.
    
    Anyone see a problem with this idea?
    
    This will be even better than the colon cluster f**k for those of us who take great delight in saying.
    WE TOLD YOU….
    We will get three entire years of saying We told you.
    Pity about NZ inc’s direction over those years.
    
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    July 20, 2017 8:35am
    - Ambergris
      
      Its okay I have seen it on a well known blog of the right that Winston will never go into coalition with the Greens so there is nothing to fear! Yeah Right!
      
      I have no problem with those who vote NZF because they like their policies but I do wonder the thinking of those who say they will vote NZF because National have gone to far to the left.
      
      Three years of saying “I told you so” would almost be worth it!. No not really.
      
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      July 20, 2017 9:55am
      - niggly
        
        Fully agree, NZF are more Left than National and even Labour on economic matters (although as Labour is increasingly being taken over by the hard-left, Labour is starting to align more with NZF – no wonder why Andrew Little was courting Winston big-time)!
        
        NZF want a return to the pre-1984 economic reforms days and like the “anti neo-liberal” Corbyn Labour UK, or the Alliance/New Labour here in NZ, they want to go back to Big Government control of the economy.
        
        Which does explain why they are attracting a lot of older voters (especially Labour ones), who look back on the “golden and simpler” days of their youth etc. (There was a good write up the other day on the Spin Off site about this).
        
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        July 20, 2017 10:07am
    - lifesgood
      
      Yep, so the message National gets is – we are not far enough left. Stupid idea. Anyone who votes left to “teach National a lesson” is a complete idiot. it won’t teach them a lesson, they’ll just go further left.
      
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      July 20, 2017 10:43am
  - cmm
    
    “You know in your heart of heats what he will choose! ?”
    
    Sure WP has done deputy so likely likes the thought of PM….
    
    But does he really want all that work and responsibility?
    
    With Helen he took the Foreign Minister portfolio which is right up his alley – flying around and partying – but PM sounds like a big grind for someone who likes to be a shit-stirrer.
    
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    July 20, 2017 10:15am
    - waikatogirl
      
      Not only a shit-stirrer, but an absent shit-stirrer. Winnie basically disappears between elections, only resurfacing in time to electioneer and espouse his party’s policies and virtues to those who listen to his grandstanding.
      An absent PM, how would that work!?
      
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      July 20, 2017 10:44am
      - Kimbo
        
        David Lange? Clever but lazy. Let his Ministers do the work while he did a bit of PR.
        
        That would be Winston’s model. Delegating the hard shit to others is how he got where he is today, so PM would be perfect.
        
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        July 20, 2017 11:08am
      - DifferentPerspective
        
        While Kimbo and I seldom agree – I think he has utterly nailed Winston’s PM plan.
        
        Winnie just wants that top job to complete his legacy.
        
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        July 20, 2017 8:52pm
- niggly
  
  Can anyone advise who is NZ First’s Finance/Economics spokesperson?
  
  Asking as it would be good to know their credentials.
  
  Apart from NZF’s finance and tax policies listed on their website (which is rather simplistic and Leftist looking eg no-gst on food and rates, lots of well intentioned savings plans …. but no real details on how to grow the economy, well apart from bringing back manufacturing perhaps etc 😉 ), the economy is the No#1 issue for NZ.
  
  Sheesh, I wonder if NZF don’t have a Finance spokesperson as such but instead it’s one of many portfolios that comes under their not-to-be questioned supreme leader? Sheesh that Winnie sure is an “expert”!
  
  (No wonder why Winston First bangs away on every populist topic under the sun as a distraction … but hardly anything on how they will grow the economy and pay down debt)! 🙂
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:54am
  - holysheet
    
    The same one who is the liabore finance person. One Fag G Robinson.
    
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    July 20, 2017 11:08am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  National should learn from what happened in 1996.
  
  If they go with Winston the best they can hope for is a painful and frustrating three years in government followed by a severe trouncing in 2020.
  
  If National don’t offer Winston any baubles and he goes with Labour/Greens, they can wait out the three years then look forward to 6/9/12 years in power after that.
  
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  July 20, 2017 10:10am
  - DifferentPerspective
    
    Rational – but never going to happen. Bill would get the bullet if he did that and he is in full Hillary “It’s my turn” mode right now and he’s not going to do anything that compromises his leadership.
    
    It would be a gigantic dead rat, but Bill could sell his lily-livered caucus on WP being a titular PM for 6-9 months at the start of the term so long as they all kept their jobs and as DPM Bill could continue to rule the house.
    
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    July 20, 2017 8:56pm
Colville

It was a cunning plan by MeTu, to tell us about how she systematically stole tens of thousands of tax payer dollars by defrauding us when she was a younger.
This cunning plan was devised so we Righties would totally forget about Labour importing slaves to campaign in Auckland.
So cunning…MeTu said…”look over there, a squirrel !”… but in this case the squirrel was in fact a fat green frog.
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July 20, 2017 8:11am
- SGA
  
  Yeah, yeah, I’m sure that’s why she did it – favour to the Labour Party.
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:13am
- KevOB
  
  Not forgotten. Go through the archives; I’m sure there’s more to be uncovered. I don’t have time regretfully to do so.
  Labour Interns
  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzSYCyt06Oj8LWtxVTZ1UEk1ekk
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:29am
Inandout

So the Headmaster of Auckland Grammar has announced all 3rd formers (level?) will be forced to learn Maori. He does not have the persona of the previous HM, looks somewhat wet behind the ears, speaking in ‘kia oras’ and other buzz words. I just wonder what effect this will have on AG student results, being cobbled with a stone age language in the first school year.
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July 20, 2017 8:14am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  He should be taken behind the bike sheds and dealt to.
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:28am
  - Padriv Ustoev
    
    Nah bro. To the D block dungeons.
    
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    July 20, 2017 10:32am
  - doggone7
    
    And if some lefty’d said that that you’d be moaning about the call to violence.
    
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    July 20, 2017 2:32pm
- peterwn
  
  Aah! It is a cunning plan to deal with Auckland Grammar’s long standing zoning and enrollment issues. Boys (aided and abetted by parents) will be less keen to go to Grammar, thus easing roll pressures. Assuming Epsom Girls’ follows suit with teaching Maori, it should lead to a softening of house prices in double Grammar zone which can only be a good thing. I wonder what a certain Grammar old boy will have to say about this on his Whaleoil blog.
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:44am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Excellent. So from now on, Grammar boys will hate Maori. Force a language on people, and there will be a revolt. English speaking South African kids hated learning Afrikaans and vice versa. The Soweto Riots on June 16th were started because the government wanted Black Education done through Afrikaans. I am a teacher. You can force a subject on kids but they will simply just not do it.
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:58am
  - Kimbo
    
    Sounds like me and Woodwork in the Fourth Form, and Pure Mathematics in the Seventh.
    
    And it’s different, how?
    
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    July 20, 2017 9:02am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Woodwork and mathematics have utility and purpose in the world, unlike the entirely useless Maori language that gives benefit only to a tiny portion of people with minor Maori ancestry that milk the grievance industry to keep them in BMWs.
      
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      July 20, 2017 9:34am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Kimbo, as UrbanNeocoloialist puts it, woodworking is at least practical and even if rejected, gives useful skills that can later be recalled. I enjoyed it, admittedly only in Form 1 & 2 as it was only optional in Form 3 on and I didn’t take it.
      
      Pure mathematics at form 7 is also optional, and probably essential if you are continuing to a STEM subject or any advanced science degree. So useful for some, and for others – don’t have to take it.
      
      The issue is more the compulsory nature of teaching a language that few will ever use unless forced to by legislation. It is as likely to breed contempt for the language as foster comprehension.
      
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      July 20, 2017 11:55am
  - peterwn
    
    They do not need to go to Grammar. There are other available schools.
    
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    July 20, 2017 11:57am
  - Postitrote
    
    Aren’t all compulsory subjects at school ‘forced’ on kids? Your riots were more likely caused by the political situation in South Africa than simple hatred of the school curriculum. I’ve been to schools where english is the second language for the majority of students and people managed to hold their shit together and learn.
    
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    July 20, 2017 12:41pm
- MCos
  
  You’ll be shocked, I’m sure, to know that their Kapa Haka group had some success at the recent Polyfest.
  I’m amazed that it’s taken 147 years for the school to hire a Maori language teacher.
  I see they teach Latin, talking of stone age languages. I learned Latin at school. Damned handy that!
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:58am
  - Inandout
    
    You obviously didn’t learn that the English language owes a lot to Latin. But as far as AG is concerned, there has been an influx of polynesian students of late. The headmaster also said ‘parents were happy’ with their children learning Maori by compulsory means. It doesn’t take long for standards to slip once diversity creeps in. Tim O’Connor’s last job was Rector at Palmerston North Boys High.
    
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    July 20, 2017 9:12am
    - Kimbo
      
      Yes, they need out-of-zone imports to keep the First XV competitive. If not, then they would win little more than the Auckland Schools Badminton competition every time.
      
      So if the parents want it, what’s the problem? Learning a second language should be compulsory in the NZ school curriculum, and Maori is the first language here…obvious choice.
      
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      July 20, 2017 9:17am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        How about an internationally commercially relevant language? Mandarin being the most obvious.
        
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        July 20, 2017 9:37am
    - Kimbo
      
      …and I’d argue the primary benefits of learning another language are that it opens a doorway to think and conceptualise outside your own narrow cultural framework of reference (is the same reason we study history)…and you learn grammar better.
      
      Maori ticks those boxes.
      
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      July 20, 2017 9:21am
      - Inandout
        
        If you desperately want a compulsory language why not try Mandarin? That was Tim O’Connor’s first choice, but apparently was ‘persuaded’ to go native.
        
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        July 20, 2017 9:32am
      - Kimbo
        
        Why Mandarin? Because it will “earn more money”. Ho hum. Another Luddite equating education with nothing but economics. Knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing. And you imply others are inferior natives.
        
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        July 20, 2017 9:34am
      - cmm
        
        Having once been fluent in two languages (and pretty good in two others) I agree that more languages allow for a wider way to think.
        
        Words are the symbols we use to talk about and discus things. Having a wider set of symbols to deal with allows you to express yourself and think in different ways.
        
        My father and I would sometimes use three languages in on sentence to get the right words.
        
        However if you’re going to force people to learn a language, why a language with very limited utility? Why not choice?
        
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        July 20, 2017 9:50am
      - thedavincimode
        
        So does French and they have much better food.
        
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        July 20, 2017 9:51am
      - Kimbo
        
        However if you’re going to force people to learn a language, why a language with very limited utility?
        
        Because that’s not the primary purpose for learning a language, not at third form level, anyway. A second language at that stage is not intended to be like a utilitarian spade or hammer. And Maori is the first language of the country, and we are a Pacific nation.
        
        Seems more than satisfactory pragmatic/non-ideological reasons, IMHO.
        
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        July 20, 2017 9:53am
      - Jack5
        
        Kimbo, Kimbo ….
        
        When you’re not lying awake at night worried about a Maori-led NZ First dominating the election, you are promoting learning Maori over other non-English languages.
        
        You say: “Maori is the first language of the country, and we are a Pacific nation.’
        
        New Zealand wasn’t formed until the Treaty of Waitangi. Aotearoa wasn’t so much a country as a conglomeration of tribes. So it can be argued English is the first (in the sense of original) language of the nation of New Zealand.
        
        As for being a “Pacific nation” … do we have a lot in common with the these places that are also in the Pacific? Aleutian Islands, the Kamchatka Peninsula, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Ecuador? Do you suggest Tagalog or Kamchatkan or Yupik (Alaska and Siberia) warrant study in NZ because they are Pacific languages?
        
        Do, say, the Irish regard themselves as an Atlantic nation with cultural links to Suriname, Greenland, Senegal, and Sierra Leone?
        
        If you want to improve your knowledge of grammar, Maori ranks down the choices of languages to learn. Inandout is on the nail in this, with Latin, but learning a Slavic or Baltic language will help with grammar concepts. If you want to really challenge your mind with a different concept of grammar you could try a non Indo-European tongue such as Hungarian, Finnish, Japanese.
        
        There’s nothing wrong with learning Maori, but in my opinion it’s more of a cultural choice, like Gaelic to a Scotsman or the equivalent to an Irishman.
        
        Still, you don’t have to give up on learning about another culture if you don’t want to go to the trouble of learning a language. Plenty of Maori can’t speak their own language proficiently, but with a smattering of vocabulary can take part in kapa haka.
        
        Good luck with your Maori studies, Kimbo. I suspect you want to have a deep chat with Winston Peters in Te Reo.
        
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        July 20, 2017 10:28am
      - Kimbo
        
        Meh (thanks for the link about the Yiddish derivation on that, btw), Jack5, Jack5, Jack5…
        
        I’d suggest your response says more about your ideological biases than mine. Put it this way, I may still want you on my Pub Quiz team, but if the subject is the value of Te Reo, I’ll take Scott Hamilton over you every time. Maybe you can go get the beers during that round? 😉
        
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        July 20, 2017 10:56am
      - holysheet
        
        Whats the problem here bro? yous fullas are just racist c’s. With dis new texting shortcutting all yous stoopid english, who nows what we wud be speaking inda future.
        
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        July 20, 2017 11:13am
      - cmm
        
        Kimbo
        
        Maori is, and always will be, a very poor language because it lacks a written form in its history.
        
        Thus people have never really defined what the words actually mean within their own frame of reference.
        
        There is no Maori language. There were many regional variants and Maori was only codified by the whites bringing bibles.
        
        Thus Maori language has never been written or formalised in isolation and thus has very little to bring to the party in the long term. ie. what valuable ideas can you express in Maori that you can’t express in English?
        
        And before you think I’m bashing Maori, the same is true for many languages including most of Africa as well as many European languages such as Welsh (people still fight over what is correct Welsh today).
        
        Sure English was also not codified until about 1200 or so, but at least it has now had about 800 years of actually being English with a written & spoken history.
        
        While English (and other similar languages) are imprecise they are streets ahead of anything in Africa, Pacific etc.
        
        Language does shape the way people think. Seeing Maori correlate pretty well with poor outcomes. Do we really want to strengthen that?
        
        I am not at all opposed to kids learning a bit of Maori at primary level for a bit of local history, but it does not make sense at the high school level.
        
        The final acid test should surely be this: If Maori was really valuable then surely Maori people would learn it voluntarily? Only about 20% do, so clearly the value isn’t there. About the same for Welsh.
        
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        July 20, 2017 12:03pm
      - cmm
        
        Mandarin because:
        * If you want to be exposed to other ideas, then being exposed to the language and thinking of over a billion people is a pretty good idea.
        * Mandarin has a written form that goes back thousands of years. Thus we can be exposed to properly documented history and philosophical thinking going back for eons.
        * It is actually a real language used day-to-day (and century to century).
        
        Why not Mandarin:
        * The commitment needed to learn such a huge character set is enormous.
        
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        July 20, 2017 12:12pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Thanks, cmm. As always you argue your point by sticking to the point. However, your assumption that a language must exist primarily in written codified from to be worthwhile is…suspect, indeed ideologically loaded. All language, including written forms, are subject to change.
        
        Put it this way – my tertiary studies were in Biblical studies. Those codified texts we now have originally existed in oral form, within highly sophisticated oral cultures – as the pre-European Maori world you describe was. Study and experience the dynamics of such a language, and you are accumulating the skills to study a myriad of ancient texts based on oral tradition.
        
        Also, Maori has nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, other ways of communicating parts of speech. Don’t what it was like in South Africa, but I went through the NZ education curriculum and, while having a hazy knowledge, didn’t really know how to put that knowledge into a formal setting…until I encountered other languages in tertiary study. And the hardest part wasn’t learning them, but learning grammar properly! Learning another language, including Maori, is a dynamic way of learning parts of speech. For third formers that is a more than satisfactory outcome.
        
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        July 20, 2017 12:19pm
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        “…primary benefits of learning another language are that it opens a doorway to think and conceptualise outside your own narrow cultural framework of reference…”
        
        From my own experiences as both a voluntary and compulsory (but not very successful) learner of languages, I disagree. It’s learning the culture which can change your framework of reference, and it’s quite possible to do this without learning the language. It’s also quite possible to discover that the culture you are learning is frequently incompatible with your existing one.
        
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        July 20, 2017 12:26pm
      - Brigitte
        
        If you’re going into politics you must learn Russian. Otherwise how can you understand the instructions given to you….
        
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        July 20, 2017 12:34pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Philby taught them English . . .
        
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        July 20, 2017 1:27pm
    - SGA
      
      Inandout
      
      You obviously didn’t learn that the English language owes a lot to Latin
      
      That’s easily overstated – in terms of vocabulary, sure, but that was, I’m guessing, via the Normans predominantly, so you could probably make a better case for learning French (and at least it is extant). In terms of its structure – declining nouns, conjugating verbs, subject-object-verb organisation – much less so.
      That said, learning Latin was good for learning about language and how it works in general, and learning about another culture.
      
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      July 20, 2017 9:33am
      - Don the Kiwi
        
        Not so – the Normans spoke an early form of French.
        Latin came into English with the Roman occupation of Brittanica from about 60 AD until – I think – about 400 AD. Also of course, the Nordic languages also had an influence on English with the Danelaw over a couple of centuries, and the Saxons – prior to and after the Viking/Danish occupation. Take, for example, the word ‘window’.
        
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        July 20, 2017 4:53pm
      - SGA
        
        Don – I think that you will find that the Latin influence in our vocabulary comes mainly via the Normans (French is a Latin-based language). Some of the distinctions you see in English probably reflect the different social standing of the two groups – French or Latin based words such as mansion, chair, beef, mutton versus the Germanic house, stool, cow, sheep.
        From memory, the Romans weren’t much of “joiners” compared to the Vikings and Normans, say.
        Happy to be corrected 🙂
        
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        July 20, 2017 5:12pm
  - lifesgood
    
    You’re obviously not very bright then. Latin is of huge value and importance. It is used in medicine, the sciences, mathematics and is the root of English and romance languages. I knowledge of Latin helps intelligent people in so many ways, but, of course, you have to be intelligent to understand that.
    
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    July 20, 2017 10:46am
    - SGA
      
      English is usually classified as a Germanic language , I think. Although Latin was once the lingua franca of science and mathematics, a working knowledge of Latin is not necessary.
      
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      July 20, 2017 5:17pm
  - kowtow
    
    Then you should know Latin is not a stone age language.
    
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    July 20, 2017 11:13am
    - john1234
      
      Indeed. Latin is a complex and feature rich language and grammar.
      Maori is a comparatively primitive language in vocabulary and grammar.
      Learning languages is indeed a benefit to one’s cognition, but best if it is a language rich with colour, structure, vocabulary and nuance.
      Not Maori, I’m afraid. It’s just not very good for complex, exact use.
      
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      July 20, 2017 12:23pm
      - KevOB
        
        It’s very poor for precise use as it has few root words. In practical use its grammar is changing to English sentence structure and what we hear frequently is a mixed version.
        They are fighting against time before the language drops out of use. It works in Marae formal occasions but otherwise? It’s useless for advanced education.
        
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        July 20, 2017 3:43pm
      - VicParking
        
        Maori has many words with structure and colour.
        “Bro” , “KFC”, “pia” and “hikareti” to name four.
        These go back to before time itself and came over with the great migration.
        
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        July 20, 2017 4:00pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        What a very odd idea. The more complex a language’s grammar the ‘richer’ it is? If that’s true, then English and Mandarin are decidedly poor languages, as they have quite simple grammars. Icelandic has an archaic and very complex grammar that the other Scandinavian languages have dropped – it must be richer than them.
        
        The reality is that a language’s grammar tends to simplify as said language is more widely used. English’s famously loose grammar, along with its borrowed vocabulary, make it easier rather than harder for speakers to express themselves in complex ways. There’s no correlation between a complex grammar and the ability to express complex meanings.
        
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        July 20, 2017 4:42pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Bit of a problem for you, Latin is not in any sense “stone age”, the Romans were pre-industrial but a long way into the iron-working age and used iron/steel extensively.
    
    Pre-european Maori were entirely ignorant of metal working and literally lived a stone-age existence. Fine, well designed and worked tools, but stone tools. Likely as not this was environmental to a degree, metals don’t occur in the islands to any significant degree (in Micronesia/Melanesia, yes New Caledonia, PNG, etc have significant mineral resources), and even in NZ native metals are uncommon though some Copper occurs at surface levels around Kawau and Gold/Silver are present in small amounts in a number of places. But not that they couldn’t, but they didn’t.
    
    So Maori is definitely a “stone age” language. Using that as a measure of the language though may be a faulty concept.
    
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    July 20, 2017 12:01pm
    - SGA
      
      Ed Snack
      
      Fine, well designed and worked tools, but stone tools
      
      That’s a little exaggerated. The tools were also made of wood, bone, flax, and obsidian(?) – whatever materials were at hand given that Polynesia wasn’t really suited for metallurgy (that plus the fact that there weren’t the same opportunities for transfers of technologies across cultures as in larger land masses).
      
      Using that as a measure of the language though may be a faulty concept.
      
      I see no reason why there would be a link, tbh.
      
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      July 20, 2017 12:56pm
    - Inandout
      
      I was watching a documentary on Egyptian life 5000 years ago. Large and complex buildings, roads, transport, complex pottery,jewellery and embalming techniques . Go forward to the Maori world until 1300-1800 and what do you have? No written language, no wheel, no stone structures for shelter and basic weapons. Even though they arrived (apparently) by large boats from across the Pacific, they didn’t think of making smaller boats to fish offshore. And this culture is being compulsory taught in a once elite school?
      
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      July 20, 2017 1:03pm
      - SGA
        
        Necessity is the mother of invention, Inandout. Why would the Maori have developed writing? From my understanding, writing developed in early empires for bureaucratic purposes more than anything else. Heavily forested pre-European NZ wouldn’t really suited for wheeled transport for the most part either, I’m guessing.
        
        Even though they arrived (apparently) by large boats from across the Pacific
        
        Why “apparently”? You have an alternative theory?
        
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        July 20, 2017 1:10pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Yes. How about inhabiting the mighty Pacific Ocean without aid of compass, map or sextant? About the best the Phoenicians were doing at around the same time was hugging shorelines around the comparative lake that is the Mediterranean.
        
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        July 20, 2017 1:14pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        They had maps,Not as we know them in parchment. both memorized from oral tradition and physical representations for currents ,winds and distribution of fanua in the oceans they inhabited .
        Direction can be established from the stars relative positions and the suns angle as it progresses though the day.
        Navigating a sailing vessel though the oceans is not just a question of what way you are pointing .
        
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        July 20, 2017 1:43pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        ‘they didn’t think of making smaller boats to fish offshore’
        
        This is where you would have benefited from a little third form Maori, inandout. Waka tiwai: look it up. It had a single hull and was used for journeys on rivers and close to shore.
        
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        July 20, 2017 4:45pm
      - SGA
        
        I’d also suggest that arriving at a place teeming with bird life that wasn’t adapted to deal with human predators made fishing less imperative than it had been in the islands.
        
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        July 20, 2017 5:20pm
  - Longknives
    
    I think Latin might be just slightly more Historically important than ‘Te Reo’ Mcos…
    
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    July 20, 2017 1:20pm
    - Kimbo
      
      In a New Zealand setting?
      
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      July 20, 2017 1:25pm
      - Inandout
        
        kimbo 1.14: There were traders that supplied Egyptians with an array of products, and they didn’t sail just around the corner. You appear to bring up that old chestnut that Maoris didn’t advance one iota because they had no outside contact to learn things. Using that example other civilisations would not have advanced past go. There is such a thing as innate cleverness.
        
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        July 20, 2017 1:37pm
      - Kimbo
        
        You appear to bring up that old chestnut that Maoris didn’t advance one iota because they had no outside contact to learn things…There is such a thing as innate cleverness.
        
        WTF? I’m saying, contrary to your implication that Polynesians were nothing but an unsophisticated stone age people that they had achievements that others did not match for some 2000 or so years. take it or leave it. The Egyptians still have their pyramids, the Polynesians have the Pacific. We are all human, and both are examples of human ingenuity and/or (to quote you) “innate cleverness”.
        
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        July 20, 2017 1:49pm
      - SGA
        
        You appear to bring up that old chestnut that Maoris didn’t advance one iota because they had no outside contact to learn things.
        
        lol – just calling something an “old chesnut”, however, doesn’t demonstrate that it’s not a valid consideration.
        
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        July 20, 2017 5:23pm
- KevOB
  
  More token Maorisation. The language is unfit for regular use in present day NZ. It has a purpose on a marae and with some older Maori communities. It was rejected previously and now there are too few teachers of the newly re-created variety to sustain it. Teaching hu and koti is useless.
  
  English does not extension for pa warfare.
  There are other Polynesian languages far more advanced which do command respect.
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:38am
  - KevOB
    
    Correction:
    ~~English does not extension for pa warfare.~~
    English does not need extension for pa warfare.
    
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    July 20, 2017 10:03am
  - Scott Hamilton
    
    ‘There are other Polynesian languages far more advanced which do command respect’
    
    Which Polynesian languages are these, and in what way are they more advanced? How does one measure how advanced or backward a language is, anyway?
    
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    July 20, 2017 10:42am
    - KevOB
      
      A language which is native to the whole country and has been constantly used developed and not fossilised at 1835. A language in which the laws of the country are enacted. A language which is not substantially English transliterations. A language in in which teaching in English now starts at year 7.
      
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      July 20, 2017 11:40am
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        Your argument was that other Polynesian languages are advanced but Maori isn’t, Kev. These points don’t seem to connect to that earlier argument. There are just as many, if not more, borrowings from English in a number of other Polynesian languages, Tongan for example. There are many Polynesian languages in which laws are enacted – Tongan, Samoan, Tuvaluan, Niuean, and so on – but I don’t see how this automatically makes them more ‘advanced’ than Maori. And you haven’t named the Polynesian language or languages which is supposedly advanced compared to Maori. Given that the Polynesian languages share a huge amount of vocabulary and structure, I’d be interested to see your explanation for the difference between the supposedly advanced and the supposedly backward.
        
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        July 20, 2017 11:54am
  - Postitrote
    
    “The language is unfit for regular use in present day NZ”. Maybe, but it’s an official language of this country and it can be very profitable for a business to have people who know a bit. If you’ve ever pitched for govt work here or elsewhere you’d know.
    
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    July 20, 2017 1:26pm
    - Inandout
      
      So is sign language official.
      
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      July 20, 2017 3:11pm
    - kowtow
      
      And therein lies the problem. It only exists because politicians are prepared to waste opm on it. Is there nothing the long suffering taxpayer can’t afford?
      
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      July 20, 2017 4:19pm
    - Postitrote
      
      Sign language was made NZ’s 3rd official language in 2006.
      
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      July 20, 2017 4:37pm
- Gruffydd
  
  18 July 2017
  http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/335362/auckland-grammar-hires-first-maori-language-teacher
  
  Next year, te reo Māori will be offered as an option to Auckland Grammar students in years 9 and 10 and will be available to all students by 2020.
  
  2016?
  https://www.ags.school.nz/at-grammar/departments/show/49
  
  This year is significant year for the school with the introduction of Te Reo Māori to Auckland Grammar School for the first time since the school opened in 1869.
  
  In 2016, Te Reo Māori will be taught as a compulsory subject to all Form 3 students. The course will be divided into two semesters, each will be 11 weeks in duration, 11 lessons in total for each option class. Once a week a language option class will spend 1 lesson a week doing Te Reo Māori. Assessments will be done during class time.
  
  I remember failing German miserably.
  I only took the class because a language option was compulsory and Miss Prentice was a school boys wet dream.
  Making all learn Maori at a cost to the core curriculum is not a profitable use of limited time available.
  It seems the original intent was to have Maori make up half the years compulsory language option. The later story say it will be optional.
  
  It would not be easy for AGS to find good candidates to teach Maori. Many potential Maori teachers would be put off by the potential clash of cultural dynamics.
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:41am
  - Kimbo
    
    Making all learn Maori at a cost to the core curriculum is not a profitable use of limited time available.
    
    Disagree. If this was NCEA, then yes. But third form especially if for exploring talents and trying stuff to see if you have aptitude and/or passion for a subject. Like I posted elsewhere, had to do woodwork. Hated it. If nothing else it taught me discipline to persevere something I didn’t like. Lessons in that. Problem sorted.
    
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    July 20, 2017 9:51am
    - Gruffydd
      
      I do not dispute that learning a second language is a valuable tool for many.
      The little German I absorbed taught me the roots source of much of English is heavily influenced by the Anglo-Saxons.
      
      We are all wired differently some excel at tech, or whatever they call it know, some do language, some do hard science or math. Very few are equally competent at all forms of intelligence . For me learning a second Language was just an enforced torture I had to endure.
      
      If you allocate half this time to Maori you disadvantage those who do go on to explore their preferred option. The curriculum already has a Maori cultural component built it that necessitate some absorption of the language for all. Do we really need even more compulsory?
      
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      July 20, 2017 10:26am
    - Scott Hamilton
      
      I took Maori in third form to avoid woodwork, Kimbo!
      
      The point I would make is that Maori is very much an international language, because it is effectively a dialect of the single great Polynesian tongue, which is spoken from Easter Island in the east to Hawai’i in the north to Nukuoro in the far west of the Pacific. If you add together the users of the various Polynesian languages in NZ then they are easily the second biggest language group here. One hundred thousand Aucklanders speak Samoan alone. I took classes in Tongan last year, and noticed how many of the words had corollaries in Maori. Count to ten in both languages and you can see how similar they are.
      
      And the Polynesian language is only one part of the vast Austronesia family of tongues, which includes Malaysian, Bahasa Indonesian and even the Malagasy language of Madagascar. A third former who learns a little Maori can set him or herself up for learning one of hundreds of other languages later on.
      
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      July 20, 2017 10:49am
      - Kimbo
        
        Yeah, but look how you turned out compared to the other cultured, measured open-minded regulars of Kiwiblog, Scott Hamilton! /sarc 😉
        
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        July 20, 2017 10:53am
      - Jack5
        
        Scott, if you are talking about the “vast Austronesia family of tongues”, you should compare that with the far greater Indo-European language family.
        
        As well as English, this includes languages as varied as German and Dutch; the Scandinavian and Baltic languages; French, Spanish, Italian, Rumanian, and the other Latin languages; the Slavic languages; Kurdish; Hindi; Persian, Afghan (Pushtun), Nepali, Bengali; .. and scores more.
        
        If you want to learn Indonesian (or Malay) you could put the time you spent learning Maori towards that and you would be at least equal to the person who learned Maori first.
        
        People whose main language is English get a start in Indo-European languages, that are far, far more prominent in the world than the “vast” Austronesia group.
        
        Still, I reckon you should learn as many languages as you have the time and patience for, and that includes Maori. But Maori will be a cultural language in the way that Gaelic and Welsh are.
        
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        July 20, 2017 11:56am
- dime
  
  yikes. id be pissed if i was heading there as a kid.
  
  what about other languages? are they now off the table in 3rd form? or do some end up doing two? which seems excessive?
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:43am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Yep. The next school board election should be interesting. Parents didn’t pay an extra 300k for their house to have this rammed down their kids’ throats.
    
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    July 20, 2017 10:15am
    - Postitrote
      
      Auckland Grammar isn’t the only school in the zone. If people want to pay an extra $300k extra for a house in Grammar zone then that’s on them. They could just as easily buy out of grammar zone and put that 300k towards private school.
      
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      July 20, 2017 1:43pm
    - doggone7
      
      Some of them pay 300k so their having been at the ‘best schools’ means they can ram all sorts of other things down everyone else’s throats.
      
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      July 20, 2017 2:30pm
- chris
  
  I hated learning Latin when I was there, but the teacher was good so made it bearable, and it taught me much more about the English language than the subject of English ever did… Only did it for a year and then chucked it in for German instead.
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:44am
  - RalphT
    
    “Only did it for a year and then chucked it in for German instead.” Did you go to the same school as Gruffydd and also have the hots for Miss Prentice?
    
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    July 20, 2017 10:23am
    - chris
      
      I went to Auckland Grammar in late 80s / early 90s. There were no full time female teachers at the time, although I recall in 4th form having a female reliever take us for a few classes in German – can’t recall her name or if she was hot 🙂 And then they had I think a full timer for German in my 5th and 6th form years – she wasn’t my teacher and I wouldn’t have rated her as hot – and no, not Miss Prentice. I did Latin for 1 year, French for 2 and German for 2.
      
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      July 20, 2017 10:29am
      - Longknives
        
        Did anyone like Miss McAuliffe teach you Chris? Dammit none of the Christian Brothers who taught me looked anything like her….
        
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4589622/Teacher-charged-having-sex-three-male-students.html
        
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        July 20, 2017 1:25pm
      - Inandout
        
        I would have loved a ‘reliever’ female teacher.
        
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        July 20, 2017 3:15pm
      - cha
        
        Fill ya boots, knives.
        
        http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/notorious-teacher-sex-scandals/
        
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        July 20, 2017 5:26pm
      - Left Right and Centre
        
        LK – I love the boys in these things described as ‘victims’. She looks very attractive – I’m sure they hated every second of it.
        
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        July 21, 2017 5:37am
  - dime
    
    german – the language of romance haha
    
    dreadful sounding language it is!
    
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    July 20, 2017 11:03am
    - Don the Kiwi
      
      Nah dime.
      The romantic languages are French, Italian and Spanish – all based on Latin.
      
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      July 20, 2017 5:15pm
      - Left Right and Centre
        
        ha – er – romance languages ?
        Romantic – ok. I mean – I find them romantic but it’s an academic word in this context.
        
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        July 21, 2017 5:58am
  - john1234
    
    Bob Hunt in the 3rd form and John Kirby in the 4th form for Latin.
    Mr Kirby would have to be the greatest teacher in the history of the school. Loved 4th form Latin!
    
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    July 20, 2017 12:27pm
    - chris
      
      Mr Kirby was probably my favourite teacher ever. Had him for Latin in 3rd Form and Classics in 6th Form. Didn’t know his name was John; we always joked that his first name was ‘Sextus’.
      
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      July 20, 2017 10:21pm
- Kiwi Dave
  
  There is a very modest case for a very modest amount of compulsory Maori with very modest goals as part of our NZ heritage – some knowledge of placenames, some standard greetings and responses.
  
  Any belief that people who can already communicate competently in their mother tongue will want to spend a long time learning to communicate much less competently in a language spoken by only 3% of the population and almost nowhere else in the world is delusional.
  
  I taught for a decade in a school where Maori was compulsory in the third form and it was obvious from comments – not my language, don’t need it, would rather learn something else – by the mostly PI and Asian students that the language wasn’t winning hearts and minds at all; this impression was confirmed by a two year check on year-end drop-out rates – 99% for non-Maori students, c.50% for Maori students, IIRC.
  
  I also taught English overseas in a place where at least 95% of the population did not speak English as a mother tongue. Many students were impressively competent in it, but encountering almost entire classes who could manage only a few formulaic phrases despite years of compulsory instruction left me wondering about the value for students and taxpayers of all that coerced non-learning and whether they would have been better off choosing something else.
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:47am
  - Kimbo
    
    Thanks, Kiwi Dave. Good feedback and anecdote from the education coal face.
    
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    July 20, 2017 11:50am
  - thedavincimode
    
    whether they would have been better off choosing something else
    
    Like woodwork, for example.
    
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    July 20, 2017 12:20pm
    - Left Right and Centre
      
      As long as it covers some traditional Maori carving.
      
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      July 21, 2017 5:12am
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  PC bullshit. May as well learn Athabaskan. That will help you worldwide
  
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  July 20, 2017 10:05am
  - Don the Kiwi
    
    Yeah Steve, those Athabaskanis really appreciate someone speaking to them in their own language, and not just telling them to ‘fuck off’. 😉
    
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    July 20, 2017 5:19pm
    - Steve (North Shore)
      
      I saw similar stuff to Moari bullshit when in Alaska Don. Some are so entitled they need to keep pushing the agenda (code for funding)
      
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      July 20, 2017 6:11pm
- Gabby
  
  They’ll be able to say hello to their clients.
  
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  July 20, 2017 12:01pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    I dunno, there is the shouty spitty threatening ‘hello’ that is inflicted to too many who come to New Zealand; unless they are told, I bet not one of them recognise is as ‘hello and welcome’
    
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    July 20, 2017 1:40pm
  - Steve (North Shore)
    
    Gabby speaks an incoherent language, anyone understand it??????
    
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    July 20, 2017 6:12pm
    - Gabby
      
      Crikey Stoive, I thought you were a native speaker.
      
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      July 21, 2017 9:51am
thedavincimode

Headline Update

To those of you too faint of heart to look behind the screaming weather apocalypse headlines on-line this morning, further scrutiny reveals more winter weather on the way. An in depth investigation of the calendar reveals that it is indeed July and accordingly, no surprises here.

In further breaking headline news, pippa is back and the viewers are by all accounts loving it. I leave it to the discretion of individual readers to conduct their own investigation of the story behind this commanding headline.
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July 20, 2017 8:36am
- Lance
  
  More live feeds to rather silly reporters standing out in the rain…. telling us it’s raining
  Just like war zone reporting.. snigger snigger
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:40am
  - thedavincimode
    
    Standing in the rain and telling morning television ~~viewers~~ masochists it’s raining is the fast track into slavelabour. Another reason to ridicule them I suppose.
    
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    July 20, 2017 8:45am
  - RF
    
    It can be dangerous. I remember Crooked Hillary claimed she was dodging sniper bullets whilst greeting the media and children. Not……
    
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    July 20, 2017 9:39am
    - cha
      
      How’s that list going?.
      
      /
      
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      July 20, 2017 10:06am
      - Ed Snack
        
        I think he’s still worried about the growing Clinton fatality list.
        
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        July 20, 2017 12:05pm
Keeping Stock

Why do Labour Party graphics such as the one at the link below focus only on tax cuts for the “top 10%”?

The Family Assistance Package in the Budget, voted into law by every party in the Parliament except Labour gave tax cuts to almost every New Zealand worker, not just the “top 10%” that Labour hates so viscerally. And of course Labour is going to take those tax cuts away, if elected.

The politics of envy are alive and well, just as in the “rich prick” days of Michael Cullen and Helen Clark.

https://www.facebook.com/NZLabourParty/photos/a.352820246451.152168.337477311451/10154830909271452/?type=3&theater
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July 20, 2017 8:39am
- peterwn
  
  Because that top 10% is unlikely to vote Labour (dementia excepted) although their spouses will probably vote Greens to ‘save the planet’. There could be the odd exception – eg Bob Jones would probably earn more extra income under Labour than he would pay in extra taxes as all these extra public servants Labour will hire have to be housed somewhere.
  
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  July 20, 2017 8:48am
- cmm
  
  It was easier to label the “rich pricks” in the old days. They were white collar workers and owned shares in companies and such.
  
  The Labour fodder were the unionised blue collar workers.
  
  Now it is much harder:
  * Due to Kiwisaver most of us are now shareholders and thus factory owners etc.
  * There’s less union membership amongst blue collar workers.
  * There’s more union membership amongst white collar workers (esp. goverment).
  
  So now Labour need to find different ways to label the “enemy”.
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:57am
holysheet

When your employer announces they are spending 1 billion plus dollars on a new computer system, as an employee you would think your days at that job might just be numbered?

Not those in the union at The IRD.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/94881890

Now days most interaction with the IRD is done on-line. I do my GST, PAYE, Provisional Tax, Terminal Tax payments all on-line.
It’s come as a surprise to the union that so many jobs will disappear when the new computer system comes into use over the next 3 -4 months. What plant are they on, not to realise that these job losses were on the horizon.
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July 20, 2017 8:52am
- MCos
  
  “What plant are they on”
  What are you suggesting?
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:05am
  - holysheet
    
    Maryjane or earth, take your pick.
    
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    July 20, 2017 9:09am
- MCos
  
  Previous experience would suggest that when a government department invests huge sums of money in computerization job numbers actually increase as legions of people are required to fix the bugs.
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:10am
  - KevOB
    
    Others should have consulted IRD who have managed well.
    
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    July 20, 2017 9:42am
  - cmm
    
    “increase as legions of people are required to fix the bugs.”
    
    Sure, but your average IRD paper-shuffler is not capable of being a programmer. If they were they would not be working for IRD.
    
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    July 20, 2017 9:59am
    - KevOB
      
      IRD has a very capable programmer IT team. My nephew has worked as such with them for years.
      
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      July 20, 2017 11:45am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Had to uptick that one MCos, sadly all too true.
    
    That said, what little contact I have had with the IRD over the past few years has been conducted remarkably well for a government department.
    
    And passed the 4,000 comment level. Way short of some, but shows that I must have too much time on my hands at work…
    
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    July 20, 2017 12:06pm
- Kabull
  
  The Union is being being economical with the facts. As reported “The tax department signalled last year that it expected to cut about 1500 jobs between 2018 and 2021.” This is not a cut of 4000 but close to the ‘about 2000’ in the Stuff article. Sure, changing business practices because of the new computer system will require major organisational changes. It would be archaic for IRD to retain its present staffing numbers just to preserve employment – what would the ‘surplus’ people do?
  
  I don’t understand the negative perspectives pushed by the PSA – they are clearly anti-improvement.
  
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  July 20, 2017 10:24am
  - KevOB
    
    They’re ~~UNION.~~ BULLIES.
    
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    July 20, 2017 11:46am
- marcw
  
  The MSM are faithfully reporting the Union propaganda without question or investigation – who needs a Dept. of Information in the socialist world when they have these useful idiots?
  
  1. IRD have many current employees on fixed term contracts which will not be renewed after 2021.
  
  2. Non replacement of staff policy, over 4 years for 4000 staff at 5% leaving pa is around 800 less employees.
  
  So the plan to not have mass redundancies seems reasonable. If we had actual media that could think rather than repeat they may have some credibility.
  
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  July 20, 2017 10:33am
Gruffydd

Drive a European car and your manufacturer of choice is lying to you.

Almost every new Mercedes-Benz diesel car bought in the UK during the past six years is being recalled to improve their emissions performance.

Germany’s Daimler, which makes the vehicles, said the measure to reduce nitrogen oxide (NOx) output, which will cost the company about €220m (£195m), would involve no cost to owners.

The action is being taken in relation to nearly all cars with diesel engines meeting the Euro 5 standard – implemented in 2011 – and the existing Euro 6 rules.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/19/mercedes-recalls-3m-diesel-cars-emissions-concerns
The recall will result in lowering a cars power output.
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July 20, 2017 9:18am
- holysheet
  
  Just wait until your european vehicle needs its top up of adblue. I got a new Transit van this year. Just done 5000 klms and it comes up with a warning to fill up the adblue tank otherwise it will not start.
  This stuff is an additive to the diesel so it’s nitrogen oxide emissions are reduced. All new diesel vehicles will need this additive if sourced from europe.
  Just wait for all the green hugging luvies in their flash new vehicles scream when their cars wont start.
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:35am
  - Gruffydd
    
    I would not encourage you to temper with your cars emissions systems as I believe to do so makes it legally un WOF able.
    If you look into it there are fixes available to circumvent the need for an additive.
    
    Those I know who drive diesel European cars do so for the performance and mileage.
    
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    July 20, 2017 9:59am
  - Ed Snack
    
    AdBlue is basically Urea, it isn’t added to the diesel but injected into the exhaust system (controlled by your ECU) when needed to catalyze the reduction of NOx and thus reduce emissions of those gases.
    
    Reaction is 2NO + (NH2)2CO + (1/2)O2- > 2N2 + 2H2O + CO2. So you need Urea plus some unconsumed Oxygen or added air.
    
    It isn’t on all the time but injected when NOx levels reach certain concentrations. As the regulations get more stringent, more Urea is needed. It is messy stuff too; technically a Carbamide, not toxic in general and widely used both by the body in excreting nitrogen and also as a fertilizer and a chemical feedstock.
    
    Maybe future diesel vehicles will need much larger tank for the stuff.
    
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    July 20, 2017 12:16pm
Tauhei Notts

The turn around for correspondence with the Inland Revenue Department is presently six weeks. They are just so busy.
So what would you do in a business with such a slow turn around?
I know!
I’d make several thousand of the employees redundant!
That will enhance our service to the taxpayers.
This is not a joke. It is a government department headed by a buffoon from Ohariu.
That sort of idiocy is acceptable from a Labour government, as they are all pricks anyway. So if we are going to have Labour Lite, why not have the real thing. Well, I do prefer Heineken to Heineken Lite.
National need three years in the wilderness while they sort out their idiocy.
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July 20, 2017 9:22am
- holysheet
  
  Six weeks? my arse. What you send them goes via Afghanistan?
  Never have I waited more than a week for a letter reply. Phoning them on the 0800 # is always an instant reply, and you get a real person who is most helpful.
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:28am
- KevOB
  
  You need to deal with IRD more often to appreciate them better.
  Unless you have worked there you will have little idea of the volume of work which has to be seasonally processed. IRD aims to collect the revenue and not waste money doing so.
  
  Most matters can be dealt with on line. Technical rulings on tax law or disputes about assessments have their own time frames.
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:54am
- thedavincimode
  
  Notts, register on line. herr doktor’s postal service probably accounts for about 4 of that 6 weeks.
  
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  July 20, 2017 12:26pm
- howitis
  
  Tauhei
  Perhaps the people in Manukau don’t know where the South Waikato is!
  Jeepers you must be talking about Chorus or Vodafone or Spark with such slow turnaround.
  I heard a couple of Spark courier pigeons were shot by Sonny Tau:)
  
  If IRD fell under the hopeless, hapless MBIE, 6 weeks would be the express service.
  IRD do a lot for that number of staff incl clearing house for Kiwisaver, WFF, student loans, GST et al.
  They are efficient by any standards.
  I filed my IR3 on line and had a refund paid out on the third working day.
  On-line is the only real way to go.
  They even have call back and estimate the time.
  They even used Skype a few years go but seem to have stopped.
  
  They should have bit more time as well now as Andrew Little has volunteered to collect all that outstanding Google tax that is so damned ethereal.
  Sorted! A unionist who does some good. How blessed we are.
  
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  July 20, 2017 2:57pm
rightoverlabour

More evidence that the British education system ( and to a large extent British Society) is fucked.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/07/15/faith-or-fellatio-british-religious-school-forced-to-submit-to-secular-indoctrination.html
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July 20, 2017 9:26am
- MCos
  
  That article doesn’t provide a name for the school in question.
  What it doesn’t mention is that there are ultra orthodox Jewish schools in London that don’t teach the kids to speak English.
  “The Hackney Citizen has attempted to reach representatives of Talmud Torah Tashbar school but has been unable to speak to them.
  There are understood to be 33 unregistered Jewish schools currently operating in Hackney.
  A former pupil of one such school who wished to remain anonymous described the education he received as “to all intents and purposes a form of child neglect or child abuse”.”
  https://www.hackneycitizen.co.uk/2016/10/24/unregistered-jewish-school-shut-down-ofsted-flouting-order-close/
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:53am
- Scott
  
  The difficulty I see is that the pressure on religious schools is all one way. Secular authorities are quite happy to strong arm Christian and Jewish schools to fit their secular way of thinking. But Muslim schools are far more free to do what they like.
  
  There is a pattern with secularism in the West. They are hyper- aggressive on their own religion of Christianity and its predecessor Judaism while being absolutely appreciative of Islam in the name of cultural diversity.
  
  I have been reading a book recently which is absolutely brilliant on the situation in Europe regarding Islam –
  The strange death of Europe by Douglas Murray
  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-Europe-Immigration-Identity/dp/1472942248
  
  One notable highlight which was news to me – “more British Muslims went to fight for Isis than are serving in the British Armed Forces”.
  
  This is an excellent book for anyone who wants to understand why we should be concerned about Muslim immigration.
  
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  July 20, 2017 10:02am
Hugh Pavletich

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LEARNING FROM THE IRISH 2007 HOUSING CRASH … THE SEVERE COSTS OF MULTIPLE STRETCH …

Its high multiple lending that ‘does in’ the Banks and their customers … as they learnt with the Irish housing bubble collapse in 2007.

The New Zealand Banks are in no hurry to repeat the 2007 Irish experience … when the housing bubble burst there … putting all its Banks to the wall and requiring bailouts exceeding 70 billion euro or about $NZ 109 billion.

Irish housing across its metros on average went from 4.7 times annual household income in 2007 to 2.8 a few years later … refer the schedule of Demographia Surveys at http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org .

Australia is currently 5.5 times … New Zealand 5.9.

Why should the New Zealand and Australian Banks be more resilient than the Irish ones ?

What was the capital base of the Irish Banks in 2006 and 2007 ?

If a 4.7 unweighted median multiple across its metros blew the Irish banks out of the water, how come ours are supposed to survive 5.5 and5.9 respectively with (in New Zealand’s case) a skinny capital base of just $NZ30 billion and a $NZ1 trillion (CoreLogic estimate) housing market with in excess of half it bubble value ?

Following the bust, the Central Bank of Ireland found it was high income multiple lending that did the most damage to the Irish Banks … and it imposed a general lending cap of 3.5 times annual household incomes.

A year earlier the Bank of England had capped at 4.5 times.

In normal housing markets house prices should not exceed 3.0 times annual household income, requiring sensible mortgage loads of about 2.5 times (Demographia Survey).

The days of housing inflation are over. That’s for sure.

Welcome to the real world.
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July 20, 2017 9:27am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Access yesterday’s posts …
  
  http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/07/general_debate_19_july_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-1971180 … and … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/07/links-19-july-2017/#comment-2918795
  
  Christchurch ‘nearly saturated’ with shops: researchers … Chris Hutching … The Press
  
  https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/94811012/christchurch-nearly-saturated-with-shops–jll
  
  Christchurch leads cooling house market trend … Chris Hutching … The Press
  
  https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/94418443/christchurch-leads-cooling-house-market-trend
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:30am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Why would anyone want to access yesterday’s posts Hugh? We know you hate the government, and we know you have a bee in your bonnet on housing. But now you’re just trolling.
    
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    July 20, 2017 9:32am
    - sooty
      
      If he did not repeat yesterdays news, he would have nothing to say!
      
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      July 20, 2017 10:47am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Hugh’s had his daily dump already. The laxatives are working.
    
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    July 20, 2017 9:41am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Nope, you mentioned his name, he will be compelled to reply or add to the dump
      
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      July 20, 2017 10:26am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Paulus Gnome … You (unlike Capt Mainwaring) are very perceptive. A rarity indeed within the National tribe … and for that matter The Nappy Nationals (ACT) as well …
        
        You need to understand I feel free-er to speak than PM Bill English … who has been “Barclay-ed’ as they say in the trade …
        
        … Meet THE NOTHING PARTY …
        
        ‘I’ve got nothing to add’: Bill English on repeat over Todd Barclay controversy – NZ Herald
        
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11882258
        
        … PM Bill ‘NOTHING TO ADD’ English of the (Policy – Free) NOTHING PARTY asked to produce copies of the Todd Barclay Tapes …
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp9BJxFHDYI
        
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        July 20, 2017 10:41am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        fitzroy
        July 20, 2017 at 8:15 am
        Thanks for your insights Hugh.
        
        https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/07/links-20-july-2017/#comment-2919706
        
        Hugh Pavletich
        July 20, 2017 at 9:17 am
        
        Thank you Fitzroy.
        
        It is enormously heartening in how the structural performance approach to urban issues is gaining much wider understanding and acceptance … since the first Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey was released early 2005 … access schedule http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org .
        
        These artificial scarcity induced housing bubbles are totally unnecessary … and hugely destructive in social, economic and political terms.
        
        They just wreck peoples lives.
        
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        July 20, 2017 11:25am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Pity, Hugh, that your commentary on the Housing market lacks understanding of the underlying cause of the whole asset bubble – cheap money.
        
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        July 20, 2017 12:21pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Spooky 912.2 Median Multiple http://www.demographia.com ) Sydney … last nights ABC Lateline … A Million Aussie Bucks for a fringe house & land package 50 Kilometres out from the CBD …
        
        http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2016/s4704698.htm
        
        Australian Broadcasting Corporation
        
        Broadcast: 19/07/2017
        
        Reporter: John Stewart
        
        In Sydney, house prices have doubled since 2008 – but some property analysts are warning that a correction is looming and housing on the fringe of the city could be the first affected. John Stewart reports. … VIEW & READ MORE VIA HYPERLINK ABOVE …
        
        Via (behind paywall) at … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/
        
        Western Sydney to bear brunt of property downturn
        
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        July 20, 2017 12:55pm
      - Rich Prick
        
        You got lucky Paulus, three extra knobs fell out this time.
        
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        July 20, 2017 1:21pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        A Government-commissioned report has found that land use regulations add about 56% to the cost of houses in Auckland; ‘prices far outweigh costs in most major NZ cities’ … Interest Co NZ
        
        http://www.interest.co.nz/property/88883/government-says-land-use-regulation-blame-56%C2%A0-cost-average-house-auckland
        
        By David Hargreaves
        
        A Government-commissioned report has found that a staggering 56% of the cost of Auckland houses may be due to land use regulations.
        
        The report, which looked at housing in seven major cities in the country, says that land use regulation is hampering the flexibility of housing supply.
        
        “Relative to a world with no land use regulation, regulation could be responsible for 15% to 56% of the cost of an average dwelling across a range of New Zealand cities,” the report says.
        
        “In Auckland, land use regulation could be responsible for 56%, or $530,000 of the cost of an average home.” … read more via hyperlink above …
        
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        July 20, 2017 1:36pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Told you
        
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        July 20, 2017 1:43pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        STEPHEN JOYCE DELIBERATELY UNDERSTATES THE DEPTH OF THE HOUSING COST PROBLEM …
        
        The Government report on excessive costs grossly understates the problem.
        
        The performance / pricing of our construction sector has been bureaucratically bludgeoned back in to the Stone Age of cottage building as well.
        
        Ask Stephen Joyce to provide a breakout of the Pheonix Arizona costs below as well …
        
        … Check out the affordable or near affordable North American housing markets …
        
        2017 13th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey
        
        http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf
        
        … Google search ‘……. New Homes’ … for example ‘Atlanta New Homes’ … ‘Dallas Fort Worth New Homes’ … ‘Houston New Homes’ … ‘Phoenix New Homes’ … etc etc.
        
        Note the North American convention is to only include heated areas when stating building areas … while in Australia and New Zealand the convention is to include garaging. Therefore add garaging (circa 6×6=36 square metres (10.764 square feet = one square metre) to the North American examples … to compare apples with apples.
        
        To start … here are a few Pulte Homes Phoenix Arizona examples …
        
        https://pulte.com/homes/arizona/phoenix/florence/parkside-at-anthem-at-merrill-ranch-7739#CommunityDetailsView
        
        … Why has New Zealand Building & Construction Minister Nick Smith STILL FAILED to line up the detailed North American pricing against our current ‘nonsense numbers’ for new residential development in New Zealand ?
        
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        July 20, 2017 5:09pm
- KevOB
  
  Who cares about the Irish banks’ ratios?
  
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  July 20, 2017 9:56am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    KevOB … You will … sooner than you realize.
    
    Check out Canadian former senior Conservative politicians blog ‘Greater Fool’ …
    
    Garth Turner … Canada … The Greater Fool Blog
    
    http://www.greaterfool.ca/2017/05/01/mayday-2/
    
    … extract …
    
    … That’s the funny thing about bubbles. Everybody’s horny to get their hands on rising assets – until they’re not. It always happens fast, whatever the asset and no matter the trigger. Greed is a powerful emotion, but it wilts before the dominance of fear. If enough people fear houses will stop rising (prices don’t even need to decline), they’ll cease making the Herculean sacrifice required to buy one. And down she goes. … read more via hyperlink above …
    
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    July 20, 2017 11:46am
    - KevOB
      
      I know we are in a stupendous asset bubble but most people don’t and wont believe it.
      
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      July 20, 2017 4:15pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        KevinOB … Polls are consistently clear that the housing crisis in THE number one political issue.
        
        This of course infuriates and frightens the current government and their sheepies here at Kiwiblog … because they are acutely aware its their failure with the housing issue that’s going to put them on the Opposition benches 23 September.
        
        And what an EPIC FAILURE it has been.
        
        This National-led Governments failures are clearly set out on my archival website http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org .
        
        Its beyond my comprehension just how incompetent this supposedly centre-right government has been.
        
        The sooner we are rid of them … the better.
        
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        July 20, 2017 4:51pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Home owners vs renters: Life satisfaction, living conditions, health and financial position differences laid bare by Stats NZ survey | interest.co.nz
        
        https://www.interest.co.nz/property/88892/home-owners-vs-renters-life-satisfaction-living-conditions-health-and-financial
        
        By Alex Tarrant
        
        Every so often it’s fun to play a game of State-the-Obvious:
        •Home ownership matters for well-being.
        •Nearly half our rental stock is so shoddy that it has dampness and mould problems, leading to renters having poorer health outcomes than owner-occupiers.
        •And those renting are less likely to have a sense of belonging to their neighbourhood, region, the company they work for, and even New Zealand as a whole than those who own their own homes.
        
        Stats NZ yesterday released its latest General Social Survey (GSS) of well-being. Almost 9,000 Kiwis were asked how comfortable they were with their lives, and for views on issues like the importance of farming to the country, the natural landscape, and sense of belonging to family, religious groups and neighbourhoods … read more via hyperlink above …
        
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        July 21, 2017 9:37am
    - Happychappy
      
      You poor bitter twisted prick Hugh, I hopeLabour have employed Mike King to sort your problems before the 23rd September 2017
      
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      July 20, 2017 6:16pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Happychappy …
        
        Here is the poor bitter twisted prick Hugh in 2008 and 2009 …
        
        … October 2008 …
        
        “Kiwis Pay Price For ‘Cullen Housing Bubble’” | Scoop News
        
        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0810/S00090/kiwis-pay-price-for-cullen-housing-bubble.htm
        
        … early 2009 …
        
        NZ Government Housing Commitment Applauded | Scoop News
        
        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0901/S00331/nz-government-housing-commitment-applauded.htm
        
        New Zealands Pragmatic Political Approach Welcome | Scoop News
        
        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0903/S00467/new-zealands-pragmatic-political-approach-welcome.htm
        
        … and here is John Key talking about housing reform in 2007 !!! …
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWPgoAI1cLE
        
        How would you describe this guy ?
        
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        July 20, 2017 7:27pm
      - Gabby
        
        It’s true though chappy, Bingles has nothing to add. How crappy.
        
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        July 20, 2017 9:14pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        NEW HOME PRICING: PHOENIX SANITY … AUCKLAND, SYDNEY, HONG KONG LUNACY …
        
        PHOENIX SANITY …
        
        Pulte Homes … Phoenix … Arizona
        
        https://pulte.com/homes/arizona/phoenix/florence/parkside-at-anthem-at-merrill-ranch-7739#CommunityDetailsView
        
        … Check out the affordable or near affordable North American housing markets …
        
        2017 13th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey
        
        http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf
        
        … Google search ‘……. New Homes’ … for example ‘Atlanta New Homes’ … ‘Dallas Fort Worth New Homes’ … ‘Houston New Homes’ … ‘Phoenix New Homes’ … etc etc.
        
        Note the North American convention is to only include heated areas when stating building areas … while in Australia and New Zealand the convention is to include garaging. Therefore add garaging (circa 6×6=36 square metres (10.764 square feet = one square metre) to the North American examples … to compare apples with apples.
        
        … NOW FOR THE LUNACY … HAVE THE POLITICIANS COMPLETELY LOST CONTROL ? …
        
        … HONG KONG … SYDNEY … AUCKLAND …
        
        Hong Kong average price of new home hits $1.8m … Financial Times
        … google search title if blocked …
        
        https://www.ft.com/content/9206350c-6c62-11e7-bfeb-33fe0c5b7eaa
        
        Developers in Hong Kong sold a record $17bn of new housing in the first half of the year, with the average new home costing $1.8m in the world’s most expensive property market.
        
        The jump in sales comes despite heightened tensions in Hong Kong’s relationship with Beijing and is likely to exacerbate anger over the high cost of living and inequality in the semi-autonomous Chinese territory.
        
        Hong Kong’s biggest property developers are tycoons such as Li Ka-shing, Lee Shau-kee and the Kwok brothers, who exert a substantial degree of influence in Hong Kong’s undemocratic political system. …
        
        … Hong Kong has the world’s least affordable housing relative to income, according to US consultancy Demographia. The median house price is equivalent to 18 years of gross household income, presuming no tax or other living expenses. … read more via hyperlink above …
        
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        July 21, 2017 7:47am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) … Lateline – 19/07/2017: The suburbs where homeowners could feel first impact of potential housing downturn
        
        http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2016/s4704698.htm
        
        Australian Broadcasting Corporation
        
        Broadcast: 19/07/2017
        
        Reporter: John Stewart
        
        In Sydney, house prices have doubled since 2008 – but some property analysts are warning that a correction is looming and housing on the fringe of the city could be the first affected. John Stewart reports. … view and read more via hyperlink above …
        
        A Government-commissioned report has found that land use regulations add about 56% to the cost of houses in Auckland; ‘prices far outweigh costs in most major NZ cities’ … Interest Co NZ
        
        http://www.interest.co.nz/property/88883/government-says-land-use-regulation-blame-56%C2%A0-cost-average-house-auckland
        
        By David Hargreaves
        
        A Government-commissioned report has found that a staggering 56% of the cost of Auckland houses may be due to land use regulations.
        
        The report, which looked at housing in seven major cities in the country, says that land use regulation is hampering the flexibility of housing supply. The report and summary are available here. … read more via hyperlink above …
        
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        July 21, 2017 7:51am
Manolo

Bad blood in Washington:
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/342650-tensions-reach-new-high-between-trump-gop
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July 20, 2017 9:48am
Manolo

The power of the Clinton mafia:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/postal-service-broke-law-in-pushing-time-off-for-workers-to-campaign-for-clinton-investigation-finds/2017/07/19/3292741c-6ca0-11e7-b9e2-2056e768a7e5_story.html?utm_term=.afb4661b51ab

The U.S. Postal Service engaged in widespread violations of federal law by pressuring managers to approve letter carriers taking time off last fall to campaign for Hillary Clinton and other union-backed Democrats, investigators said Wednesday.

High-level postal officials had for years granted employees requests for unpaid leave, leading last year to an “institutional bias” in favor of Clinton and other Democrats endorsed by the National Association of Letter Carriers, one of the largest postal unions. The Postal Service’s Office of Special Counsel and inspector general found that the agency violated the Hatch Act, which restricts federal employees from working for or against a political candidate or party during election season.
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July 20, 2017 9:50am
cha

Yeah, and uncle Joe didn’t collaborate with his BFF at the time to invade Poland and divy up the booty.
//

Dunkirk was caused by the appeasement, opposed by Churchill. Phoney War was its last stage. What is your view of it?— Russian Embassy, UK (@RussianEmbassy) July 19, 2017
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July 20, 2017 10:18am
- Ed Snack
  
  Yes, yes he did. Stalin and Hitler divided Poland between them, and Stalin also absorbed the Baltic states and committed a form of genocide in them as well.
  
  Dunkirk wasn’t strictly directly caused by appeasement, but there are reasonable arguments that had Britain backed France over the Czech question in 1938 that Germany might not have been in a position to invade France in 1940.
  
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  July 20, 2017 12:26pm
  - Kimbo
    
    True, but Chamberlain baulked at paying the price for Soviet support that was needed to make the defence of the Czechs feasible in 1938. Instead, he acted as though the Soviets were either a pack of shits he would rather not deal with, but, if necessary and for their own self-preservation, they would come to the aid of Czechoslovakia. Hence Stalin declared he wasn’t going “pull chestnuts out of the fire for the British”…so did his non-Aggression Pact deal once the Munich Agreement proved worthless, and a coming war was obvious.
    
    So if you are going to triangulate, do it well and in a way that it won’t rebound on you! 😉
    
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    July 20, 2017 12:43pm
Stars And Stripes

Solo mothers say they understand reasons for benefit fraud after Turei bombshell
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/94875046/solo-mothers-say-they-understand-reasons-for-benefit-fraud-after-turei-bombshell

Great little fluff piece here from Stuff profiling three different bludgers telling their hard luck stories and how they understand why people have to cheat the system to get by blah blah.
Yes well the sooner you people realise you are scum and are only just being kept alive through the hard efforts of others then you may come to appreciate what you get instead of feeling so hard done by.
One bit I did like though was this:
“Solo mother Cassie Keene is used to only eating one meal a day in order to make sure her boys are fed”.

Looking at the photo she is a blob so I wonder what that one meal each day is?.
KFC big bucket maybe.
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July 20, 2017 10:40am
- Longknives
  
  The hashtag ‘I am Meteria’ thing that the Greens are doing on Facebook is getting ripped to shreds by normal,sane folk (who obviously work and pay taxes and don’t steal)..
  
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  July 20, 2017 11:33am
- Gabby
  
  You came clean about your byblows didn’t you Old Whory.
  
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  July 20, 2017 11:53am
Fletch

The Ukranian community in Manchester, England are justly aggrieved that their city is going to install a statue of Engels (Marx’s communist pal) with all pomp and ceremony. The statue comes straight from a Communist dictatorship where it was erected in 1970. Apparently, Engels grew up in Manchester which is enough of a reason for him to be honored there…

Friedrich Engels – philosopher, writer, radical thinker – is coming back home. Turner Prize-nominated artist Phil Collins is returning Engels to the city where he made his name – in the form of a Soviet-era statue, driven across Europe and permanently installed in the centre of Manchester. Ceremony will be a singular moment in the city’s history. Performers, musicians and the people of Manchester will create an extraordinary live film to bring MIF17 to a close, mixing footage from the statue’s journey with live coverage of its inauguration.

One Ukrainian commenter wrote in the Guardian –

I understand that art should be challenging, but for me the statue and Ceremony glorify communism. I feel uncomfortable that the statue was part of the Soviet propaganda machine – even if it originates from the “softer” Brezhnev regime (the statue was created in 1970). The placards promoting communism that have been placed around the statue do not help….

When I saw the statue in person I was drawn to the faded blue-and-yellow paint of the Ukrainian flag on the legs. I assume that it was painted by Ukrainians following the fall of the Soviet regime in 1991. A part of me longed to repaint the statue in the Ukrainian colours.

Do I have a problem with a statue of Engels in Manchester? No. There is already a sculpture of his beard in Salford. He is an important figure in Manchester’s history. But I do have a problem with a statue created specifically to promote Soviet propaganda being placed in Manchester – if, as a result, it romanticises communism and totalitarianism.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/449651/engels-returns-manchester-2

This is what Britain has come to? Honoring Communists?
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July 20, 2017 11:24am
- Gabby
  
  Ukraine is weak. Go back to Ukraine.
  
  3 13
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  July 20, 2017 11:56am
  - Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
    
    Gabby needs to be sent to the gulags.
    
    12 2
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    July 20, 2017 12:18pm
    - Gabby
      
      Jizzy mitts is a sitting duck. A road apple. I think it’s time to put the hurt on jizzy mitts.
      
      2 12
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      July 20, 2017 1:08pm
- Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
  
  “This is what Britain has come to? Honoring Communists?”
  
  Cultural Marxism 101.
  
  Could you imagine any attempt to place a statue of a Nazi Party member in a public square ANYWHERE in the West?
  
  War crimes and murdering millions should be overlooked when Leftist do it.
  
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  July 20, 2017 12:15pm
  - Paulus
    
    Karl Marx is buried in Highgate Cemetery in London.
    
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    July 20, 2017 2:12pm
- Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
  
  “if, as a result, it romanticises communism and totalitarianism.”
  
  That’s their plan.
  
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  July 20, 2017 12:17pm
- kowtow
  
  Some Mad Micks wanted to do same for murdering bastard Guevara, since binned.
  
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-brady/no-more-statues-of-che_b_1626162.html
  
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  July 20, 2017 4:31pm
- sam green
  
  So? There’s a statue of Ayn Rand in Discovery Park Tennessee. What’s your point? Engels was a writer and philosopher – so was Ayn Rand.
  
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  July 20, 2017 6:39pm
Longknives

Clementine Ford is literally crowing with delight over the new Dr Who being a Woman-

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/94921247/whats-really-behind-the-suns-decision-to-publish-jodie-whittaker-nudes

“What we’re seeing now is the screeching death throes of a particular demographic of men”

Yep- She seems to actually believe this is the beginning of the end for the hated White Male!
*This is the same Clementine Ford who has made comments about her wish to see all White Males exterminated etc yet came out openly in support of Man Haron Monis (the Islamic Sydney Gunman..) -She is a very twisted person.
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July 20, 2017 11:47am
- Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
  
  “She is a very twisted person.”
  
  She is a Feminist/Cultural Marxist.
  
  Too bad Dr Who has been given a sex change op.
  
  To be honest thought Dr Who was bound to end up this way considering the SJW Globohomo crowd are the biggest followers ie no men except the assembly line low T sort.
  
  Men are turned off by “empowered” females. And just look at examples of females in politics who make it to the top – Helen Clark, Angela Merkel – unfeminine and barren wombs.
  
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  July 20, 2017 12:08pm
  - sam green
    
    Wtf is a globohomo?
    
    4 3
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    July 20, 2017 6:45pm
  - Gabby
    
    Women are turned off by jizzy mitts. Get some swarfega you globohomophobe.
    
    2 2
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    July 20, 2017 9:06pm
- Fletch
  
  Although some lefties aren’t happy yet – they want more WOC (women of color) and disabled or trans actors in the show.
  
  https://milo.yiannopoulos.net/2017/07/sjws-denounce-new-doctor-who-for-not-being-a-black-trans-woman/
  
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  July 20, 2017 12:35pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    It may look like a police call box and is deceptively spacious inside but even the Tardus is not big enough to contain one of each sex with one of each colour with one of each disability with one of things we haven’t even thought of yet.
    
    If it was possible to have all the different combinations represented because, you know, feelings, the Tardus would look like Wembley Stadium
    
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    July 20, 2017 1:52pm
    - Fletch
      
      Besides, the Tardis will need all the room it can get now, for clothes and shoes and makeup and stuff.
      
      6 0
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      July 20, 2017 2:28pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    I hear Leslie Jones is looking for a new gig.
    
    2 0
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    July 20, 2017 2:37pm
- Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
  
  “*This is the same Clementine Ford who has made comments about her wish to see all White Males exterminated etc yet came out openly in support of Man Haron Monis (the Islamic Sydney Gunman..)”
  
  If she was in an Islamic country she would be gang raped by male mohammedans and her corpse, mutilated beyond recognition, tossed out at the local tip.
  
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  July 20, 2017 12:40pm
starboard

Bribe-o-meter..love it.

http://www.taxpayers.org.nz/bribe_o_meter?e=75da7bb88d87efa573b23b02da1496e2&utm_source=taxpayers&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=bribe_launch&n=7
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July 20, 2017 12:01pm
cha

When extremists of both stripes celebrate bad news.

BULLETIN – Senator John McCain has been diagnosed with brain cancer after pathology was performed following this weekend's surgery— Steve Brusk (@stevebruskCNN) July 20, 2017

Please Just Fucking Die Already#JohnMcCain #Neocons #Russia https://t.co/bsYXCOk5xN— Caitlin Johnstone (@caitoz) July 17, 2017

If it hasn't been made clear to the @NVGOP that @DianaOrrock is evil and should be fired, Diana Orrock is evil and should be fired. pic.twitter.com/OVC00pZy9T— Meadows (@JD_Meadows) July 20, 2017

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/19/senator-john-mccain-has-a-brain-tumor-his-office-says.html
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July 20, 2017 12:38pm
RF

I see a chief economist has given the thumbs up to Labours election budget.

This turkey is Ganesh Nana who is so to the left he is unable to walk a straight line. I have seen him in action and boy is he anti National.
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July 20, 2017 12:53pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  He must be a mate of Hugh’s then…
  
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  July 20, 2017 1:05pm
- Gabby
  
  Can’t walk a straight line You didn’t break his leg did you rf rf? After the last time?
  
  1 12
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  July 20, 2017 1:05pm
  - RF
    
    Gabby.
    
    Yes but only the left one. Poor bugger walks around in circles now.
    
    9 1
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    July 20, 2017 4:01pm
    - Gabby
      
      That’ll make him easier to catch, if you don’t trip over your long baton rf rf.
      
      2 3
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      July 20, 2017 6:40pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Nana? The economist who said he and his wife would rent for their lives because it made sense and finally capitulated and bought something (heading towards peak Auckland I believe) when he found he didn’t have anything to talk about at social functions after covering off the route to the function and the density of the traffic followed by those bloody school fees (private not ‘donations’) before getting onto the topic of how much my house has made me this week.
  
  That Nana?
  
  An unfortunate name in this instance
  
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  July 20, 2017 1:57pm
- Paulus
  
  Those who founded BERL (Business and Economic Research Limited), whom I knew well, would be horrified by its current left wing persuasion.
  
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  July 20, 2017 2:15pm
Stars And Stripes

Couple, new baby live in woolshed in Central Hawke’s Bay as freeze hits
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11892569
“A teenage couple from Central Hawke’s Bay and their 6-day-old baby had to move into an old converted woolshed with bare gibbed walls, a long-drop toilet and a woodburner in urgent need of repair – just as the “worst storm of the year” hit.
The 18-year-old father and his 17-year-old partner, on a waiting list for a Housing NZ property, had been living in the unit after the tenancy at their previous short-term rental ended on June 13 and was not renewed”.

Another sob story about some stupid teenagers who have had a kid and are now wanting the taxpayer to find them somewhere to live because they are cold and a storms on the way and it’s all the governments fault.
If you have no money or secure place to live don’t have kids as I’m not sure why you think it’s the taxpayers job to try and bail out your stupid ass.
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July 20, 2017 1:00pm
- Gabby
  
  Stupid 6 day old baby.
  
  2 18
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  July 20, 2017 1:04pm
  - Prince
    
    Of course not.
    Take the baby and put him where he can have parents who love him and are able to support him.
    Stupid Youth Workers who want to prolong this poor bugger’s dependency on people who clearly don’t have the resources to look after him.
    
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    July 20, 2017 1:23pm
- waikatogirl
  
  Why wasn’t their tenancy renewed? Didn’t pay their rent?
  MSM providing only half the story so not to inform us of their lack of responsibility on top of their immaturity.
  
  Harsh but true.
  
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  July 20, 2017 1:11pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  At least the weather may ward off another child until spring . . . .
  
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  July 20, 2017 1:58pm
  - RalphT
    
    The cold weather could force them to huddle together for warmth, which could have unintended consequences.
    
    5 0
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    July 20, 2017 4:17pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Or intended ones.
      
      1 0
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      July 21, 2017 10:35am
- kowtow
  
  Same in Dunedin. The ODT has been pushing this hard.
  
  “The Ministry of Social Development has said the women had repeatedly exhibited behaviour that made them unattractive to landlords and many motel owners.”
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/protesting-mp-gets-courtesy-services
  
  Curran, Cull and Co have pushed very hard to get refugees to Dunedin. Ooops.No room in the inn!
  
  10 0
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  July 20, 2017 2:17pm
  - howitis
    
    More like:- there is accommodation for those who are not trash and don’t turn good (and limited ) accommodation into trash.
    Supported nonetheless by a trashy Lab MP.
    
    Excerpt:-
    …The women came in for criticism on social media after some posted publicly available Tenancy Tribunal rulings against them, showing damage to homes and unpaid rent.
    Ms Curran said those critics did not know all the circumstances.
    ”Both women have freely acknowledged they have things in their past that they’re not proud of…
    
    In other words they are trash that trash their lodgings paid for by others. Next please.
    I mean to say, they are already put up in motels at great taxpayer expense. The longer the delay to taxpayer owned property the better.
    Curran can stay there till hell freezes over.
    
    8 0
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    July 20, 2017 6:11pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Where are this hapless couple’s parents? mates? extended family? in their time of need…
  
  They must really have alienated the people around them.
  
  9 0
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  July 20, 2017 6:18pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    What and have overcrowding?
    
    0 0
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    July 21, 2017 10:48am
Keeping Stock

Metiria Turei, 1 June 2005:

Of course, the community has other opportunities to hold members of Parliament to account for their irresponsible misuse of parliamentary privilege—at the ballot box. New Zealanders expect a much higher standard of behaviour from their highest and most privileged representatives than, for example, that demonstrated by Winston Peters, who used the term “Ying Tong” to refer to Asian members of the New Zealand community. That sort of intolerant, vicious, extreme abuse is not acceptable.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/47HansS_20050601_00000864/turei-metiria-privilege-consideration-of-report-of

Metiria Turei is right. New Zealanders DO expect a higher standard from our highest and most privileged representatives, especially those who lead or co-lead their political parties. On that basis, she should be reflecting on whether she herself has met the “higher standards” expected by New Zealanders of her.
27 1
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July 20, 2017 1:03pm
- holysheet
  
  Do you really expect this entitled hori to actually resign on a principle she holds others to?
  
  20 5
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  July 20, 2017 1:16pm
- waikatogirl
  
  KS, you know better than expect personal integrity from the left.
  Their doctrine is: Do as I say, not as I do.
  
  If Turei does the right thing and resign, I will eat my hat.
  
  20 0
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  July 20, 2017 1:19pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  can someone make an election poster out of that? Vote Green – The Party with Flexible Standards of Behaviour. (Actually, Vote Twice, we won’t notice)
  
  12 0
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  July 20, 2017 2:49pm
cha

Florida man has competition.

http://www.unitednews.org/lexington-sc-man-horrified-booking-prostitute-wife-arrived/
11 0
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July 20, 2017 1:15pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  oops. So he liked what we saw from the image? Seriously are they that fucked up that after 17 years he would not recognise his wife’s body? ( of course, maybe he had not seen it for a while and thus would not recognise it.) They deserve one another.
  
  6 0
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  July 20, 2017 2:44pm
Keeping Stock

I agree wholeheartedly waikatogirl. Turei will no more likely resign or stand aside from a leadership gig than I will captain the All Blacks.
18 0
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July 20, 2017 1:22pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  You have a better chance of captaining the AB’s, I will start saving for a jersey . . . . .
  
  8 0
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  July 20, 2017 2:01pm
Brigitte

I’ve come to the conclusion that TOPs UBI for youth is a great idea. Might even vote for them.

On a completely unrelated topic, does anyone know how long it takes to get a licence for a youth oriented pub?
13 2
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July 20, 2017 2:11pm
aquataur

SSC’s report on whistleblowers at MoT out!

Suspect Sir Maarten has been waiting or this to conclude before releasing his advice on Auditor General – who I think is a gonner given the SSC report
8 0
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July 20, 2017 2:33pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Congratulations to Labour MP Sue Moroney for fighting for the whistleblowers.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/94929737/Compensation-suggested-for-Ministry-of-Transport-fraud-whistleblowers-vindicated-in-State-Services-Commission-report
  
  11 0
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  July 20, 2017 4:22pm
  - howitis
    
    Credit where it is due to Moroney.
    She has copped criticism on KB before yet stepped up to help staff who were being bullied in the workplace.
    
    Their own boss – overpaid and underperforming Martin Mathews- did not maintain a safe work environment.
    Any payout to affected staff will be from OUR taxpayer dollars not his pocket.
    He is not particularly good at protecting taxpayers money, is he now.
    
    Martin Matthews is a failure.
    He did not protect his staff in a relatively small organisation from a nasty bully.
    
    Questions outstanding:-
    How could Matthews be any sort of guardian of $70+ billion a year of state expenditure when he can’t oversee a small workplace?
    Did he not turn up to work?
    Was Matthews freewheeling until his ‘fill dead men’s shoes’ role at Audit NZ.
    Was he compromised by Harrison?
    Has Harrison’s Husband been permanently blackballed from direct or indirect work from NZ government departments?
    
    Prima Facie it would appear that Matthews might be suitable to sell hot dogs at Oriental Bay; deliver pizzas; or take bookings at the Kilbirnie Pool.
    He is not fit to be Auditor General.
    
    1 0
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    July 20, 2017 9:57pm
    - Gabby
      
      He’ll do his damnedest to make sure you never know who nicked it.
      
      0 1
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      July 20, 2017 10:17pm
    - Paulus
      
      I thought I understood that these whistleblowers have already had a meeting with the SS Commissioner and have received compensation.
      Quite right.
      
      0 0
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      July 21, 2017 1:48pm
Chuck Bird

I wonder if the Greens and Labour think this man is brave.

Man stole trampoline ‘to feed his family’

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11893082
7 1
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July 20, 2017 3:02pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  Do you have to cook trampolines, or can you eat them raw?
  
  13 0
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  July 20, 2017 3:37pm
Doggie

Ztev please come back and post something, I need a good laugh.
8 0
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July 20, 2017 3:37pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Seriously? Are we that short of talent here that you would wish that?
  
  My down-tick auto reflex has subsided since he went and marquess went off in a sulk somewhere
  
  Go outside and run around for a while.
  
  Silly boy.
  
  14 0
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  July 20, 2017 3:58pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Paulus Gnome:
    
    My down-tick auto reflex has subsided since he went
    
    Don’t worry – Hugh will give your fingers a good work-out!
    
    8 0
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    July 20, 2017 6:47pm
- Prince
  
  Ztev was banned for telling lies about our host.
  
  12 0
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  July 20, 2017 6:40pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Church youthleader up on sex charges…
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11893053

How can you blame the poor guy when one of his victims was “as keen as a jellybean?”

Do some chaps really believe this crap?
11 0
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July 20, 2017 4:19pm
- nasska
  
  The victims were female. No way we can blame the Catholics this time.
  
  9 2
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  July 20, 2017 4:47pm
- waikatogirl
  
  Maggy, some of them have to believe in their own magnetism as nobody else would.
  
  “Keen as a jellybean” Naive as a block of wood more likely.
  
  8 0
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  July 20, 2017 4:51pm
cha

The Balts won’t be happy.

In addition to these vessels, as well ships from Russia’s sizable Baltic Fleet, China is sending a naval task force into the Baltic Sea for drills with their Russian counterparts.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/12656/chinese-naval-group-in-baltic-sea-at-same-time-as-russias-biggest-sub-and-cruiser
3 0
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July 20, 2017 5:21pm
howitis

dumb dumb dumb.
Credit to Daily Mail here. Some interesting comments as well from readers.
It is clear DM is no lefty lover.
There is some media out there who don’t give Greens free rein. Just not domiciled in NZ.

Topic: Senator Scott Ludlam who had to quit the Senate in Australia.

….Greens senator who ‘forgot’ he held dual New Zealand-Australian citizenship could be forced to pay back $1.6 million in wages as Perth barrister is revealed as whistleblower….

However:-
….The Greens are promoting a ‘standing-room’ night with Scott Ludlam as the keynote speaker – even though he quit parliament for being a dual New Zealand citizen.
Despite spending nine years as an illegitimate senator on a $200,000-a-year salary, his party is actually hosting a public forum in Sydney’s inner west with him as the headline act…..

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4712576/Greens-advertise-standing-room-night-Scott-Ludlam.html#ixzz4nLL8IsbB

You might think wow, just, wow but it does not stop there:

….Mr Ludlam also lives in Perth, 4,000 kilometres away from where Sydney’s WestConnex motorway is under construction.
To make matters more complicated, he recently voted with his former fellow Greens Senate colleagues to expel maverick New South Wales senator Lee Rhiannon from party room discussions.
This was after she contradicted the Greens’ position on negotiating an education funding package with the Turnbull Government….

OK: Lets all self destruct!!
Typical – always telling others what to do.

Organiser….Ms Leong also hails from the NSW branch of the Greens, who are at odds with the party’s Melbourne-based leader Richard Di Natale….

This is straight from the ol’ internal fighting of the commies. My brand of commie is better than your brand of commie, so there!

On speculation that he may have to pay back the salary his reply
…Mr Ludlam said he could not afford to pay back the money, but was confident it would not get to that point.
‘It’s going to be millions of dollars and my total assets amount to a fast computer and some nice shoes,’ he told the ABC. ..

What a complete muppet. Nine years on AUD200 k per annum and nothing to show. Either it is locked away in a Trust (y’know those evil things Our Andy hates) or he is massively, massively financially incompetent.

….Mr Ludlam’s Kiwi citizenship, resulting in his shock resignation, was exposed by Perth barrister Dr John Cameron.
The highly regarded barrister obtained proof that Mr Ludlam still held New Zealand citizenship and was ineligible to be a federal member of parliament in Australia……

Dr Cameron. If you are Auckland let me buy you a wine, coffee or whatever.

Then from Greenie Ludlam
…..Mr Ludlam took to Twitter after his announcement to apologize once again.
‘Hey everyone. I’m sorry about this, but it’s a thing. I’ll really miss it, but there are other ways to make trouble. Love and thanks.’ ….

Oh great. There to make trouble. Isn’t democracy wonderful. We even allow the Green?? anarchists a crack whilst well paid.

….University student Jordan Steele-John, 21, has been touted the frontrunner to take the vacant seat.
Mr Steele-John, who has cerebral palsy, had to give up his British citizenship to run for parliament back in 2013…….

Great. So Australia get their own Mojo Mathers. We feel for ya across the ditch.

The good news is that Tony Abbott had rescinded his British citizenship in 1993 and Derryn Hinch rescinded his NZ citizenship previously.
But if you are Green, there ain’t much hope.

Full credit to Ludlam that he apologised, accepted responsibility, and stood down immediately.
8 2
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July 20, 2017 5:23pm
- Gabby
  
  Oh great. There to make trouble.
  
  Paw widdle snofwake howitwhinges. Look out, there’s someone fomenting happy mischief.
  
  3 2
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  July 20, 2017 9:02pm
cha

Florida man.

Florida man pissed that AT&T trucks are working outside his house shoots out their tires because Florida https://t.co/49qTisyEXW pic.twitter.com/6gSuaPqPCL— Billy Corben (@BillyCorben) July 20, 2017

https://twitter.com/BillyCorben/status/887846028627628036
3 0
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July 20, 2017 5:32pm
- thedavincimode
  
  Self defence cha. Did the road make it? It must have been caught in the crossfire.
  
  3 0
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  July 20, 2017 6:53pm
  - cha
    
    He’s lucky the trucks didn’t stand their ground.
    
    3 0
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    July 20, 2017 7:52pm
    - Gabby
      
      If he’d been wearing jammies he’d be dead by now.
      
      3 1
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      July 20, 2017 8:56pm
rightoverlabour

This is worth watching for a whole bunch of reasons. (When are our media going to employ presenters like this?)

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5513631435001/?#sp=show-clips
6 2
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July 20, 2017 7:10pm
- dad4justice
  
  Thank you for that link and I hope to see a TVNZ presenter talking like that in my lifetime? Yeah right TVNZ are all liberal lickspittles!
  
  6 3
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  July 20, 2017 7:15pm
  - realityczech
    
    The trouble is our conservatives are too… conservative.
    
    2 0
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    July 20, 2017 7:29pm
    - nasska
      
      Another way of looking at it is that ours are social conservatives who are determined to ram their Skyfairy’s crap down our throats like the meddling busybodies that they are.
      
      What we don’t have & really need are fiscal conservatives.
      
      1 3
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      July 20, 2017 7:40pm
      - realityczech
        
        Social conservatives do not need to be religious.
        
        I wonder if a new contender will strut onto the soap box now Colin & Graham have been sidelined.
        
        There must be at least one Christian out there who is not a sex offender. Surely.
        
        2 0
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        July 20, 2017 7:48pm
      - nasska
        
        There’s no reason why social conservatives have to be religious but it would be fair to state that most of the religiously deluded are socially conservative.
        
        And you’re right…..they’re not all sexual deviants but they sure have bad luck in picking political candidates.
        
        My heart pumps raw sewage for them.
        
        5 2
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        July 20, 2017 7:53pm
- cha
  
  Not everyone loves Tomi.
  
  https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/tomi-lahren-wont-go-away-quietly-she-sues-glenn-beck-over-firing-after-pro
  
  3 2
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  July 20, 2017 7:59pm
- Gabby
  
  Dead eyes, damingygoat. You bore her with your war stories?
  
  2 2
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  July 20, 2017 8:58pm
nasska

IF ONLY…….

‘Good morning, welcome to “WINZ” The New Zealand social services & benefits office’

“Press ‘1’ if you speak English.”
”Press ”2” to disconnect until you can.”
12 1
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July 20, 2017 7:36pm
cha

Turks, huh.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/turkey-leaks-secret-locations-of-us-troops-in-syria
4 2
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July 20, 2017 8:02pm
Viking2

Somethings rotten in this council.

The Horowhenua District Council has confirmed it intercepted emails sent from elected councillors to staff but has denied altering their content.

Council management have been under fire sincea leaked internal audit uncovered “extremely high risk” email “blocking” processes, which allowed chief executive David Clapperton to read, divert and stop certain emails coming in and going out of the council.

Elected councillors were among those on a black list, as well as activists, former councillors and iwi representatives.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/94930666/horowhenua-ceo-confirms-interference-with-politicians-emails

He has since confirmed that emails from elected councillors to staff were also redirected to him.

“Emails have not been blocked, rather they have been quarantined.”

He said they were “quarantined and vetted … regardless as to whom they were sent.”

“No content was changed. However if offensive material was found in the email it was council practice to seek out a response to the substantive issues, queries or concerns raised without the offensive material being forwarded on.”

Other questions sent by Stuff remain unanswered, including how many emails were redirected to Clapperton, how long the practice had been undertaken, and if it would be reviewed following the audit.

Requests for the full audit report and related documentation have all been declined.
7 1
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July 21, 2017 6:23am
- Inandout
  
  Open this thread up again today. There is more to this.
  
  3 1
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  July 21, 2017 8:01am
Manolo

Madness, the price of staying too long:
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/maxine-2020-waters-appearance-nh-sunday/
1 0
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July 21, 2017 6:39am
- Inandout
  
  But the Japanese PM’s wife didn’t speak to Trump at the formal dinner. This has overtaken the news and is SO important.
  
  3 0
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  July 21, 2017 7:50am

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