General Debate 9 June 2017

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Hugh Pavletich

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
New Zealand Banks fleecing their customers …

Banks charge New Zealand customers more for home loans … Susan Edmunds … Fairfax NZ / Stuff

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/93427352/banks-charge-new-zealand-customers-more-for-home-loans

Chanelle Farrier was upset when she moved to New Zealand from Australia and realised her home loan was going to cost her more on this side of the Tasman.

“Our rate in Australia was much lower than the New Zealand floating interest rate,” she said. “And they had great savings accounts with high interest, too.”

She had managed to take some of the sting out by negotiating a good fixed rate but said it was “very disappointing” at first. … read more via hyperlink above …

Debt-to-income ratio would stop thousands from buying houses: RBNZ … Susan Edmunds … Fairfax NZ / Stuff

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/93473314/Debt-to-income-ratio-would-stop-thousands-from-buying-houses-RBNZ?cid=app-iPad

… with further extensive information on yesterdays thread … … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/06/macro-afternoon-
208/
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June 9, 2017 10:35am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Debt-to-income ratio would stop thousands from buying houses: RBNZ … Susan Edmunds … Fairfax NZ / Stuff
  
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/93473314/Debt-to-income-ratio-would-stop-thousands-from-buying-houses-RBNZ?cid=app-iPad
  
  The Reserve Bank wants to be able to stop people taking out mortgages that are too big compared to their incomes.
  
  It wants debt-to-income restrictions (DTIs), which limit the amount that people can borrow to a multiple of their income, added to its macroprudential toolkit, alongside loan-to-value (LVR) restrictions.
  
  The restrictions are used in other markets around the world, such as Britain, where borrowers must have a loan no bigger than 4.5 times their income. The Reserve Bank is suggesting a limit of five times.
  
  The size of New Zealand mortgages compared to incomes has increased sharply over the past 30 years. The Reserve Bank said increases since 2014 partly reflected the drop in interest rates over that time, but it was possible that rates could rise again in future. … read more via hyperlink above …
  
  Google News ‘Reserve Bank of New Zealand’
  
  https://www.google.co.nz/?gws_rd=ssl#q=reserve+bank+new+zealand&tbm=nws&spf=1496949517671
  
  When the Irish housing bubble burst 2007, the average unweighted median multiples of its larger metros was 4.7, which slumped to 2.8 over the years that followed. Australia is currently at about 5.5 … New Zealand 5.9 … refer Schedule of Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Surveys at http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org .
  
  When the Irish housing bubble collapsed it put all its Banks to the wall and required a bailout of in excess of 70 billion euro (about $NZ 109 billion ).
  
  What the capital base of the Irish Banks was at the time of the crash is not known by this writer. It needs to be compared with the current position of the Australian and New Zealand Banks … being aware the bubble in the latter are far worse.
  
  Prof Bill Black & others discuss the Irish financial system performancve … Youtube
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7zd5dRILBw
  
  Subsequent research by the Central Bank of Ireland found high loan to income ratio lending was a far greater problem that high loan to value lending … and a general cap of 3.5 times annual household income lending was imposed.
  
  The Bank of England had earlier generally capped at 4.5 times annual household incomes.
  
  As the Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Surveys (13 to date) clearly illustrate, in normal housing markets, housing does not exceed 3.0 times annual household incomes requiring mortgage loads of about 2.5 times.
  
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  June 9, 2017 10:37am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Behind paywall … superb article this morning at MacroBusiness Australia on the RBNZ Loan to Income Consultation document by its Chief Economist Leith van Onselen …
    
    RBNZ mulls mortgage debt-to-income controls – MacroBusiness
    
    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/06/rbnz-mulls-mortgage-debt-income-controls/
    
    By Leith van Onselen
    
    The Reserve Bank of New Zealand (RBNZ) yesterday launched consultation to have debt-to-income (DTI) limits added to its macro-prudential toolkit. According to the RBNZ: …
    
    … concluding …
    
    … You’ve gotta respect the RBNZ for always being on the front foot and actively attempting to temper housing risks, which is far more than I can say for the dunces at APRA/RBA, whose modus operandi is ‘soft touch’ (or ‘wet lettuce’).
    
    Full report here.
    
    http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/-/media/ReserveBank/Files/Publications/Policy-development/Banks/DTI/Consultation-paper-DTIs-June-2017.pdf?la=en
    
    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/
    
    Late yesterday I posted extensively on this MacroAfternoon thread …
    
    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/06/macro-afternoon-208/
    
    There needs to be a thorough discussion on the lessons to be learnt from the Irish experience..
    
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    June 9, 2017 10:56am
    - labrator
      
      Man: She’s a smoking little pistol, isn’t she? Peter Griffin: Are you a woman? Man: No. [Peter punches him]
      
      Peter Griffin: [shouting out the window] Hey, everybody! Meg just had her first period! Joe Swanson: *Peter*! Shut up! It’s three in the morning! Cleveland: What the hell’s going on out there? Glen Quagmire: Damn it! People are trying to sleep! Peter Griffin: I’m just saying, she’s a woman. I’m proud of her. Yay! Glen Quagmire: Yes, Peter, that’s very hot and I’ll deal with it in the morning but right now I’m exhausted.
      
      Stewie Griffin: [Picking up the phone] Hello, operator. Hello… Oh god, that’s right you have to punch in the numbers nowadays. Uhhh, I should know this. Oh yes, [dialing number] Stewie Griffin: 867-5309, yes that’s it. Wait that’s not it, damn you Tommy Two-Tone. Huh, only one thing to do 111-1111, Lois? Damn. 111-1112 Lois? DAMN. 111-1113…
      
      Meg Griffin: Can you please teach me how to drive? Brian Griffin: Meg, you might want to find a better driver then Peter. Peter Griffin: What are you talking about? I’m a great driver. Brian Griffin: Oh, yeah. Remember your trip to the Southwest. [flashback] Roadrunner: Meep Meep. [Peter’s car runs over him] Brian Griffin: Oh my God. Did I just hit that ostrich? Wile E. Coyote: No. Peter Griffin: Are you sure? Wile E. Coyote: Yeah. Keep going.
      
      Peter Griffin: Son, we’re going to get you back in the Scouts so fast, they wont know what hit ’em. [he backs into a parked car] Peter Griffin: And, um, neither will that guy.
      
      Quagmire: Hey, maybe we could set Peter up with another lemon snowcone. Peter Griffin: The first one didn’t taste like lemon at all. It tasted like… [pauses] Peter Griffin: Oh, you guys are ASSES.
      
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      June 9, 2017 11:12am
      - Garbageman
        
        Well at least my RSI was cured reading that from the rapid scrolling past Hugh’s daily musings btw there is only one stenographer allowed on KB and Morrissey prefers hanging out at the Standard with his intellectual equals
        
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        June 9, 2017 1:03pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        … Essential viewing …
        
        The Business does the Chinese debt time bomb – MacroBusiness Australia
        
        https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/06/business-chinese-debt-time-bomb/
        
        Above is an interesting segment on China’s debt time bomb, aired on ABC’s The Business last night, which also threatens the Australian economy.
        
        And to put China’s debt build-up into perspective, here’s a summary chart using data from the Bank for International Settlements: … VIEW & READ more via hyperlink above …
        
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        June 9, 2017 4:05pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        UK General Election …
        
        Oh … kiwibloggers … how did all this go so dreadfully wrong ??? …
        
        Live |
        General Election results live: Britain votes for chaos as Tories left short of majority … UK Telegraph
        
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/08/general-election-2017-exit-polls-results-live/
        
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        June 9, 2017 4:24pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        After The Election, Deutsche Asks “Are The Young Starting To Rebel More And Are Looking For Hope?” … Zerohedge
        
        http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-09/after-election-deutsche-asks-are-young-starting-rebel-more-and-are-looking-hope
        
        Some interesting thoughts on the “shocking” result from the UK general election from Deutsche’s Jim Reid this morning:
        
        Whatever the overall results of this election some of the stats about potential age demographics of the voters is very interesting. Sky did a poll on election day and found amongst 18-34 year olds Labour were on 63% and Conservatives 27%. With 35-54 year olds both were on 43% and over 55 year olds Labour on 23% and Conservatives on 59%. Labour made a huge push for the young who don’t normally vote in high numbers and the Conservative Party actually proposed policies that worked against their natural older vote perhaps thinking their early lead in the polls gave them an opportunity to try to balance the books more.
        
        So were the young more motivated than normal and were the elderly less motivated? … read more via hyperlink above …
        
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        June 10, 2017 1:26am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        … From October 2015 … Allister Heath of the UK Telegraph …
        
        The real ticking time bomb for the Tories is home ownership … Allister Heath … UK Telegraph
        
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/11917816/The-real-ticking-time-bomb-for-the-Tories-is-home-ownership.html
        
        … extract …
        
        … Remarkably, 354,700 new homes were built in France last year, compared with 140,880 across the UK, a pathetically inadequate number barely half of that required. The French were actually bitterly disappointed with their own performance: their recent average has been around 400,000 homes a year. … read more via hyperlink above …
        
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        June 10, 2017 1:54am
Manolo

stephieboy’s fellow Muslims issue a stern warning:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4584760/ISIS-backing-news-agency-warns-daily-attacks.html

A pro-ISIS news agency has told followers to stay away from the ‘gathering places of the Crusaders’ as it warns that ‘thousands of lonely lions’ are prepared to slaughter civilians at any time.

‘We will explode, run over people by vehicles and cut off their necks in any time,’ the statement reads.
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June 9, 2017 10:35am
- Inandout
  
  If I was a UK voter, picking Corbyn would give ISIS a blank cheque to do whatever they like in Britain.
  
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  June 9, 2017 10:43am
- cmm
  
  A three-phase plan will fix this:
  1) Light more candles.
  2) Change your avatar picture.
  3) More hugs.
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:06am
- Scott
  
  There is a very good article from the Journal of American greatness which argues that what Britain needs now is another warlord in the mould of Winston Churchill. Even at the time Winston Churchill was seen to be a warmonger but he was ultimately proved correct. What he did was to galvanise the British people to “fight on the beaches and never surrender”. Other leaders of the time were reluctant to make the stand and were very inclined to appease Hitler.
  
  Right now Britain faces a jihadi threat that is just as virulent as Nazism. Churchill was exceptional even for his day. Does Britain have a leader who will step up and actually fight this threat?
  
  https://amgreatness.com/2017/06/06/britain-needs-warlord/
  
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  June 9, 2017 12:26pm
  - mara
    
    NO.
    
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    June 9, 2017 4:19pm
- Gabby
  
  Sir Lynton really wants the vote to stop in doesn’t he.
  
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  June 9, 2017 12:30pm
NK

If there is anyone reading who has some influence over Colin Craig, please tell him to just fu***ng stop.

It’s much worse than tawdry now. It’s sickening and torturous.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11872805
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June 9, 2017 10:39am
- rangitoto
  
  Time the courts declared him a vexatious litigant.
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:20am
  - KevOB
    
    I am no Craig fan. He says he has not filed papers. The article has no direct attribution so is inherently untruthful. I hope we are not going to have more tabloid typewriter interviewing article producers (they don’t qualify as journal lists) spoiling so called news sources.
    
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    June 9, 2017 11:42am
    - NK
      
      Yes, initial story has changed.
      
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      June 9, 2017 12:11pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  He claims in the Herald he is suing Rachel.
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:23am
  - NK
    
    I know. In my honest opinion supported by a sufficient basis of provable facts available to me, and which are honestly and genuinely believed by me, Craig is a sadist.
    
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    June 9, 2017 11:39am
- peterwn
  
  I doubt he is – it would be an extremely unwise thing to do while the Craig v Slater case is still open. It may very well be a contempt of that court and even if not it is hardly likely to please the judge if he became aware of this.
  Anyway I am pretty certain that she cannot be sued for defamation for anything she said as a witness and apart from that she has been tight lipped so it seems unlikely she said anything that was defamatory.
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:52am
Stars And Stripes

Hamilton motel gets more than $200,000 from taxpayer for emergency housing
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/93195780/hamilton-motel-gets-more-than-200000-from-taxpayer

For anyone who wants a decent place to stay in Hamilton and does not want to end up sharing with losers here are the places to avoid:
Dollar value of Emergency Housing Special Needs Grants approved for accommodation in Hamilton for March Quarter:
– Anglesea Motel & Conference Centre: $26,980
– Ashwood Manor: $90,945
– Cedar Lodge: $211,974
– Classic Motel $12,011
– B-K’s Settlers Lodge $35,980
– Gardena Court: $86,800
– Manhattan Lodge: $11,913
– YHA Hamilton Microtel: $4552
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June 9, 2017 10:40am
- Inandout
  
  Some of those motel prices start at $57. Can’t say I have stayed in those mentioned, and probably won’t now. I wonder how much burglaries have increased around the motels as a result of housing the down and outs.
  
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  June 9, 2017 10:48am
  - cmm
    
    And to get stoned you just lick the walls…
    
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    June 9, 2017 11:08am
    - Inandout
      
      The manager of one south Auckland motel, who asked not to be named, says homeless guests aren’t great for business.
      
      “They’re not good for us. They steal our stuff and break our stuff.
      
      They cause damage to the property and never care for the property.
      
      “Not all of them are bad. I would estimate about 40 per cent.”
      
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      June 9, 2017 12:25pm
- NK
  
  In Auckland, some of that would go to the council under their bed tax. What a f***ed up system we have in this country.
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:20am
  - peterwn
    
    A bed tax would have been regressive ie the same per bed whether at a backpackers or at the Langham. At least with ‘enhanced’ rates the ‘tax’ would be roughly proportional to the room rate.
    
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    June 9, 2017 11:56am
- Dave Mann
  
  Yes, that’s very valuable information and excellently researched…. but nobody in their right mind would have any reason to stay in Hamilton anyway, so its rather a moot point isn’t it?
  
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  June 9, 2017 1:33pm
- Northland Wahine
  
  Maaaate. Caravan Parks that rent out cabins have caught on it’s more lucrative to rent out a cabin nightly for emergency purposes than weekly. So instead of $325 a week you can rent it at $130 a night.
  
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  June 9, 2017 6:11pm
Manolo

How uncouth can these people get?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4584294/Saudi-soccer-team-refuse-stand-London-victims.html

The Saudi Arabian soccer team refused to line up for a minute’s silence for the London terror victims on Thursday night because it is not in keeping with their culture.
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June 9, 2017 10:42am
- cmm
  
  Silly pussy Australians. They should have just turned around and refused to play.
  
  This is bullshit of course. West must bend over to accommodate Middle Eastern “culture”, but when westerners go to the middle east they must submit to those norms.
  
  Try having a beer in Saudi Arabia and use culture as your excuse.
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:11am
- Biscuit
  
  Yep, Manolo.
  
  Various members (well, one member) of the touring British (well, English) press reckons the Blues were ‘disrespectful’, ‘inappropriate’, ‘ill-suited’ and ‘ill-timed’ in using the He Toa Takitini ‘throat-slitting’ haka before their game on Wednesday night.
  Because of the London killings etc etc.
  Imagine the apoplexy in the UK tabloids if their reporters had been at that Australia vs Saudi Arabia FIFA World Cup qualifying match in Adelaide.
  
  The Socceroos lined up, locked arms and observed a moment’s silence in tribute to the victims of the attacks.
  
  The Saudis chose to go about their pre-game business…
  
  How ‘disrespectful’, ‘inappropriate’, ‘ill-suited’ and ‘ill-timed’, eh?
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:18am
  - Peter
    
    Really?
    
    That throat slitting gesture is utterly ridiculous at the best of times. Get rid of it. Is NZ Rugby really so completely clueless?
    
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    June 9, 2017 1:03pm
- labrator
  
  The interesting thing is they’ve given moments of silence plenty of times before so they’re being very specific about what their culture represents here. They’re exactly saying that they condone the attacks. The Aussies should’ve put them on the next plane out of the country.
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:21am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  The article raised a good point. Do Muslims not do this “a minutes silence” thing at all?
  Is it seen as a “Christian” thing? Is it seen as a “kafir concept observed by the kafir”? If so, then it would put the actions of the Saudi team into context.
  On another level, I much respect the sincerity of the Saudi team for something that they truly believe in. Better that they show their true feelings than hide them with a fake minute of silence.
  
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  June 9, 2017 12:58pm
Chuck Bird

What would sentence be if the sexes were reversed and a man was the offender and the victim was a girl?

Sports coach sentenced for indecently assaulting boy

A Rotorua sports coach has been sentenced for indecently assaulting a 12-year-old boy.

In the Rotorua District Court today Judge Phillip Cooper sentenced Pamela Kulukulu Purdie, 24, to nine months’ home detention.

He noted her continued denial of her offending, her former work as a coach and teacher’s aide and the disparity of ages between herself and her victim.

Purdie was found guilty by a jury in March for doing an indecent act on a 12-year-old boy and indecently assaulting him when she climbed into the bed he was sharing with another boy during a sleepover at her home.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11872319
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June 9, 2017 10:44am
RF

I refused to watch TV1 this morning.

Is it true wonder boy Tame grilled our famous AB – Dan (I am sorry I drove drunk) Carter – about his drunken driving, speeding etc…

The mouse that roared.
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June 9, 2017 10:48am
Grant

I see that Andrew Bolt got glitterbombed by a couple of SJWs in Melbourne recently. Unfortunately for them, Mr Bolt’s response was rather more vigorous than they expected. Consequently, the knights of the grand order of the social conscience were last seen fleeing the scene via a nearby park after one received a good smack in the head, and the other a well placed kick in the nuts.
While there is much humour to be enjoyed from the above fracas, there is even more to be had from the vanquished warriors’ subsequent posting on FB, (now deleted):
Quoted from the SMH: “In a now-deleted Facebook post, Melbourne Antifa said “some of our family in solidarity were attacked by Andrew Bolt while they were protesting today” and said Bolt should be jailed for his “violent, horrendous language”.
How precious.
And just so you know, Antifa is an anti fascist outfit!!
G
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June 9, 2017 10:50am
- G152
  
  No good kicking them in the nut area. These specimens of SJW are nutless.
  But good for him.
  That’s two wankers who will think twice before they attempt to attack any-one else
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:12am
- Nostradamus
  
  Grant:
  
  This video makes it clear that Andrew Bolt responded to an attack from behind.
  
  Bolt understands the men may be linked to Antifa, a leftist group that says it “fights fascism and capitalism for the working class”.
  
  Well, if this video is anything to go by, they’re a bunch of thugs. I’m a bit old-fashioned – people should have the right to walk down the street without being attacked from behind.
  
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  June 9, 2017 1:52pm
  - KevinH
    
    The video shows Bolt defending himself against an attack from two assailants.
    Bolt is to be congratulated for standing his ground and dishing it back to the scrotes who attacked him.
    Good on him.
    
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    June 9, 2017 2:30pm
Stars And Stripes

Hundreds arrive for govt’s Parihaka apology
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/332613/hundreds-arrive-for-govt-s-parihaka-apology
” The package includes the apology, a legacy statement and a payment of $9 million, as well as deals for development services from 10 Crown agencies and three local councils”.

Lovely fine day here in Taranaki but isolated showers of koha are predicted later for Parihaka.
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June 9, 2017 10:58am
- Inandout
  
  One day there will be an apology without a bonus payout, perhaps just hand out a free apology to be traded with some other iwi.
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:16am
  - Tillwin
    
    Good point. Has any iwi EVER apologised and/or offered compensation to other iwi which they decimated and cannibalised in their greed for power. Oh that’s right, it’s different for them!
    
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    June 9, 2017 12:50pm
    - Paulus
      
      How much will it pay is the paramount feature.
      
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      June 9, 2017 1:17pm
- Scott
  
  Like when does this ever stop? When will Maori say, “thanks guys, we have had enough transfer payments of millions of dollars and we accept your many many apologies and we will now get on with our lives as ordinary New Zealanders”.
  
  And the other question – when will guilt ridden liberal white New Zealanders think that they have done enough? Are we ever going to be able to stand up and say on this issue of race relations – okay were done with the past, let’s move on happily to the future!
  
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  June 9, 2017 12:31pm
  - starboard
    
    Umm..nah.
    
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    June 9, 2017 12:45pm
    - Happychappy
      
      How is your favorite Muslim doing nowdays starboard.
      
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      June 9, 2017 2:17pm
  - GazzaW
    
    There were a couple of TV actresses there who professed to be relieved at getting the dreadful guilt that had been weighing on them after discovering that one of their forebears had been a colonial police trooper.
    
    What pretentious bullshit. It must make for a great discussion point over their trim soy lattes in the Peoples Republic of Grey Lynn.
    
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    June 9, 2017 11:23pm
  - Flash
    
    I am not guilt ridden. My forebears arrived in this country with precious little and proceeded to make a worthwhile life in this country. No-one offered them any monetary favours and they asked for none.
    
    But it seems that Maori are spendthrifts who can never have enough self discipline to make their own way. I blame the women – they don’t rock the cradle enough.
    
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    June 10, 2017 10:23am
- Paulus
  
  Is this the first reparation?
  – have the next final payments been post dated yet ?
  
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  June 9, 2017 1:16pm
cha

Where PutPut erodes Swedish resistance to joining NATO. Probably Finnish resistance, too.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has expressed deep opposition to the idea of Sweden joining NATO, calling its potential membership of the U.S.-led alliance a “threat” that would need to be “eliminated.”

“If Sweden joins NATO this will affect our relations in a negative way because we will consider that the infrastructure of the military bloc now approaches us from the Swedish side,” Putin told state news agency Itar-Tass. “We will interpret that as an additional threat for Russia and we will think about how to eliminate this threat….”

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/putin-vows-military-response-to-eliminate-nato-threat-if-sweden-joins-us-led-alliance
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June 9, 2017 10:58am
- virtualmark
  
  Um, well, Vlad, maybe the Swedes are thinking about joining NATO because you keep threatening them …
  
  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/12139943/Russia-simulated-a-nuclear-strike-against-Sweden-Nato-admits.html
  
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  June 9, 2017 6:18pm
Chuck Bird

Below is quote for a radical Islamist in response to a question I put to him asking if he thought Israel had the right to exist. I say this sort of person should not be allowed in New Zealand. What say you? The quote is from Winston’s Facebook page where he talks about radical Islamists immigrating to the west.

Badar Khan First of all there is a difference between Jewish people and the Israel apartheid state sponsored by Zionism. Israel has always been Muslim land before and after the Crusades in the 11th century and during the reign of the Ottoman empire until 1914 IE WW1 when the British conquered and divided the ME into the current set of states we see today and handed Israel to the Jew’s in the form of the belfort declaration which was received by lord Rothschild the heir to a banking dynasty. Just because you think it’s OK doesn’t mean it is or the western countries which really stole the land and continue to steal land till today. This is just another fuel thrown over what is causing extremism which is caused by radical Judaism and RADICAL Christianity which believes that land belongs to the Jew’s because it’s written in the Bible. Don’t talk to me anymore you obviously don’t now enough for me to debate you.
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June 9, 2017 11:06am
- G152
  
  Wasn’t that the Balfour Declaration of 1917?
  Rather than the ‘ belfort declaration ‘
  Arabs are not strong on truth and accuracy
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:19am
  - Psycho Milt
    
    How’s your ability to get Muslim names right?
    
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    June 9, 2017 11:38am
    - thedavincimode
      
      Let my try one. Barack Obama?
      
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      June 9, 2017 1:32pm
- Kimbo
  
  What is the answer from you, Chuck Bird, and dozens of other Kiwibloggers, if you had been asked, does an Arab (Palestinian) state west of the Jordan River as per the terms of the Balfour Declaration and the 1947 UN Partition Plan, also have a right to exist?
  
  And does giving the wrong answer mean you and also they forfeit your NZ residency and/or citizenship?
  
  And as per the implication in your interlocutor’s statement, do you think it should be compulsory for citizenship that all Kiwis must believe Israel has a right to exist on the basis of the Pre-Millennial Dispensationalist interpretation of biblical prophecy?
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:24am
  - Paulus
    
    Some quarter of the population of Israel are Muslim.
    
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    June 9, 2017 1:19pm
  - Kimbo
    
    Yes they are, or more 1 in 5 are Arabs, of whom some are Christians:
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
    
    But that is not a Palestinian Arab state as per the implications of the Balfour Declaration
    
    “…it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine…”
    
    nor the explicit wording of the 1947 UN Partition Plan.
    
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    June 9, 2017 1:27pm
  - Kimbo
    
    …and 1 in 10 Israeli Arabs are Christians.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Sectarian_and_religious_groupings
    
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    June 9, 2017 1:35pm
- MCos
  
  I heard an American lamenting on RNZ this morning that there were two topics that it was impossible to find a neutral opinion on in his country. Trump & Israel.
  I daresay it would be much the same here.
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:29am
- Kimbo
  
  Also why do you assume he is a radical Islamist, rather than primarily a Palestinian nationalist? It may be both/and, but much of his critique is couched in terms of a response to his view that Zionism (a secular ideology, nonetheless subsequently buttressed by conservative Jewish and Christian fundamentalists) is a form of (neo-) colonialism?
  
  Or, yet again, as per your readiness to parade a selected portion of a conversation out of context, have you been engaging in your objectionable practice of demanding answers from others to variations of the question, “have you stopped beating your wife?”…exacerbated by your loathsome habit of not providing responses to their reciprocal questions?
  
  Finally, what is the likelihood that you even understand any of those questions and will answer them directly, rather than raising the irrelevancy of statutory rape vs pedophilia, what would allegedly happen to me if turned up in the Delta in Ngaruawahia tonight, or what Winston Peters would say if I heckled him at an election campaign rally – despite the fact I would neither interject, nor waste my time on the crooked old oxygen thief?
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:37am
  - Entity
    
    Aren’t Palestinian Nationals and Radical Islamists pretty much the same thing?
    
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    June 9, 2017 12:23pm
    - Kimbo
      
      No. Some/many are, for instance, Christians.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Habash
      
      But as the original Zionists were warned in the 1930s and 1940s, if they proceeded with their plans for a homeland in the region, then an inevitable outcome would be the radicalising of the local Arab populace, with a religious component one of those forms. Nonetheless, like the Troubles in Ireland, while religion is not absent, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is primarily one of ethnicity and nationalism, not religion.
      
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      June 9, 2017 12:30pm
      - Entity
        
        As mentioned in the original comment by Chuck Bird:
        “Israel has always been Muslim land before and after the Crusades”
        
        If this was really a dispute about ethnicity and nationalism and not religion wouldn’t Israel have been referred to simply Palestinian land and not Muslim land? This, therefore, leads me to believe that this is a conflict based on religion. Furthermore, it is because of religion that this dispute arose in the first place. The Jews state that the land belongs to them because they were there first – as stated in the Bible. Therefore they believe that the land must belong to the city of Jerusalem. Muslims believe that the land where Palestine is situated belongs to them simply because to them the Bible has no authority and Jerusalem was never there. This, therefore, leads them to believe that the land of Palestine and all of Jerusalem belongs to them.
        This started because of what their religions and religious texts state – I have no reason to believe that this has changed over the years since it has started. Thus the conflict is not primarily one of nationalism and ethnicity rather one of religion.
        
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        June 9, 2017 1:04pm
      - Kimbo
        
        If this was really a dispute about ethnicity and nationalism and not religion wouldn’t Israel have been referred to simply Palestinian land and not Muslim land? This, therefore, leads me to believe that this is a conflict based on religion.
        
        In the same way that, say, Ian Paisley appealed to classical anti-Papal Protestant doctrine in the Northern Ireland conflict? Yet it was still primarily sectarian, driven by political rivalries that fostered distrust and hate. Again, yes, religion was present, but not the cause
        
        The Jews state that the land belongs to them because they were there first – as stated in the Bible. Therefore they believe that the land must belong to the city of Jerusalem.
        
        Many do now, yes, as do Dispensational Christians. But that is not how it developed under the secular ideology of Zionism. Their reasoning process was more, “A Jewish homeland is needed for us to be safe from persecution and (after considering and rejecting options such as Uganda), the location best suited due to historical and cultural reasons is…Palestine.”
        
        Muslims believe that the land where Palestine is situated belongs to them simply because to them the Bible has no authority and Jerusalem was never there. This, therefore, leads them to believe that the land of Palestine and all of Jerusalem belongs to them.
        
        No, while in practice Muslims reject the Bible when it comes to matters that disagree with the Koran, and cast aspersions on its accuracy due to alleged corruptions in the textual reproduction and/or translation process, as per Muhammed they view King David, the original conqueror of Jerusalem and the one who set up the royal shrine there (i.e, the original “Apostle of Zionism”!) as an authoritative prophet (like Adam, Enoch, Noah, Moses…and Jesus), and they consider the Psalms of the Old Testament (many written ostensibly by David) as authoritative Scripture.
        
        This started because of what their religions and religious texts state – I have no reason to believe that this has changed over the years since it has started. Thus the conflict is not primarily one of nationalism and ethnicity rather one of religion.
        
        And as per the false premises that I’ve detailed above, that is a non sequitur. As before, yes, religion is present in the conflict and extremists from the three Abrahamic faiths exacerbate it, and make any attempts at moderation let alone settlement very difficult, but no, it is not the primary and/or initial cause.
        
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        June 9, 2017 1:18pm
      - Kimbo
        
        …hey, this is fascinating. There is another official Jewish territory besides Israel – it is in Eastern Siberia bordering Manchuria!
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast
        
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        June 9, 2017 2:11pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Oh, look, and the Aussies (both politicians and populace) once rejected the idea of a Jewish homeland in their neck of the woods. Fascinating, as it would therefore appear that modern Dispensational Australian Christians who sometimes argue that the Palestinaian Arabs should just suck it up because “the Arab territory in the world is so large, so why shouldn’t a tiny portion of it be given to the Jews?”
        
        …are unaware that their nation weren’t prepared to apply the same principle to their vast, and much-less populated continent!
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberley_Plan
        
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        June 9, 2017 2:19pm
- SPC
  
  The appropriate response is to note, so the Ottomon rule over Palestine was fine, and Egyptian or Syrian rule over Palestine would be fine – as being subjugated by other Moslems is the Moslem experience of life. Particularly for women …
  
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  June 9, 2017 12:04pm
Fletch

Famed Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz on Trump and “obstruction”.

He explains, “That is his constitutional power. He has the right to say, ‘You will not investigate Flynn.’ The best proof of that is he could have simply said to Comey, ‘Stop the investigation, I’ve just pardoned Flynn.’”

To back up his assertions, Dershowitz reminded viewers of when Bush I pardoned Casper Weinberger the night before trial. After doing so, no one cried ‘obstruction’ because it was within the rights of the President of the United States to do so.

“That’s what President Bush did,” Dershowitz said, citing the case of Caspar Weinberger. “You cannot have obstruction of justice when the president exercises his constitutional authority to pardon, his constitutional authority to fire the director of the FBI, or his constitutional authority to tell the director of the FBI who to prosecute and who not to prosecute.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkp_Bmab07w
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June 9, 2017 11:19am
- Psycho Milt
  
  The Germans have a word for that thing with the head of state telling the chief of police who to prosecute and who not to prosecute: “Fuehrerprinzip.”
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:42am
- Kimbo
  
  @ Fletch
  
  As per my question to Scott yesterday, and not that I am saying that Trump obstructed justice, but how does Dershowitz view then-President Richard Nixon’s actions in requesting then-acting FBI director, L Patrick Gray to stop the Bureau’s investigations into the Watergate break-in?
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:45am
  - rangitoto
    
    Impeachment is a political matter and nothing to do with what is legal. Trump could be impeached for being too orange.
    
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    June 9, 2017 11:48am
    - KevOB
      
      Rubbish.
      
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      June 9, 2017 11:55am
      - rangitoto
        
        That was stated by a US professor of constitutional law. What are your credentials?
        
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        June 9, 2017 12:00pm
      - Kimbo
        
        See my reply below…
        
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        June 9, 2017 12:01pm
    - Kimbo
      
      Impeachment is a political matter and nothing to do with what is legal. Trump could be impeached for being too orange
      
      No, it is in the first instance a legal matter, albeit administered by politicians with axes to grind, scores to settle, and agendas to fulfill. So if the likes of Dershowitz are advising it is “political, not legal”, then he is giving the advice of a pragmatic trial-lawyer, and not while wearing his hat as a (to quote Fletch) “Harvard Law professor”.
      
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      June 9, 2017 12:00pm
      - jms
        
        rangitoto probably confused ‘legal’ with ‘judicial’
        
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        June 9, 2017 12:09pm
      - Kimbo
        
        In the sense that it is the legislative branch, rather than the executive and judiciary, who authorises the hearing and then acts as the jury at an impeachment (despite Chief Justice of the SCOTUS presiding over the trial)?
        
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        June 9, 2017 12:17pm
      - KevOB
        
        I sat through the whole of the televised Judiciary Committee hearings for Nixon. It was treated as a Court. Sam Ervin the Chairman was a rigorous lawyer and a delight to hear speaking. It was a trial to get at the truth: did the President know and assist a cover of of the break-in organised by enthusiastic supporters. The hearing eventually uncovered tapes from the Oval Office revealing Nixon’s knowledge. His failure not to act properly when he first got that knowledge was a failure to uphold the law and hence a breach of his sworn oath of office, a potentially impeachable matter. Nixon resigned at that point and the impeachment action never took place.
        
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        June 9, 2017 12:23pm
      - jms
        
        Yes, just found the video, from Dershowitz:
        
        “Impeachment is political, with no judicial review”
        
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        June 9, 2017 12:25pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ KevOB
        
        I sat through the whole of the televised Judiciary Committee hearings for Nixon. It was treated as a Court. Sam Ervin the Chairman was a rigorous lawyer and a delight to hear speaking. It was a trial to get at the truth
        
        Almost right, but the (Senate) Ervin Committee held investigative hearings something like a grand jury, that I think then passed its findings onto Peter Rodino’s House (of Representatives) Judiciary Committee. And the Congressmen who made up that committee voted in favour of impeachment (vote at the end of this youtube clip)
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIVAwiaKtig
        
        …and then, after the SCOTUS ruled that the
        “smoking gun” tape of that instruction to ask Gray to stop the FBI’s investigation was not subject to executive privilege and its contents were divulged to the public, Nixon resigned as he knew he had minimal support in the Senate if the Impeachment hearing proceeded
        
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        June 9, 2017 12:46pm
    - thedavincimode
      
      rangitoto, you’re confusing impeachment with empeachment.
      
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      June 9, 2017 1:34pm
  - Fletch
    
    I have found a larger clip with one of the panelists asking Dershowitz that same question.
    
    He made the point that impeachment and obstruction are two entirely different things. The President can be impeached for all manners of things, but not for firing Comey and/or asking him to stop investigating Flynn — because it is his right to do so.
    
    “You can impeach him if you don’t like what he did,” he said. “But you cannot say it’s a crime. It’s simply not a crime for the president to exercise his constitutional authority to pardon or to direct the FBI.”
    
    He concludes, “If you and I were expert witnesses in an impeachment trial of President Trump, and we were asked the question, ‘has President Trump committed an obstruction of justice by pardoning Flynn or by firing Comey, or by telling Comey not to investigate Flynn?’, my answer, as an expert on the constitution would be ‘absolutely not, he didn’t commit an obstruction of justice […] it simply isn’t a crime for the President to exercise his constitutional authority.'”
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvccxO6e5Dw
    
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    June 9, 2017 12:01pm
    - Kimbo
      
      The President can be impeached for all manners of things, but not for firing Comey and/or asking him to stop investigating Flynn
      
      Sorry, Fletch, I don’t think that addressed my question. So Nixon wasn’t obstructing justice when he instructed H R Haldeman to get on the phone to L Patrick Gray to ask the FBI to stop investigating the Watergate burglary? I know it never went to an Impeachment hearing in the Senate, but you are saying, his right to instruct Gray was absolute and there was no charge to answer to…at all?
      
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      June 9, 2017 12:04pm
      - Fletch
        
        Look at the link (if you haven’t). When Toobin asks, “In Watergate, when President Nixon […] they conspired, they made an agreement to stop the FBI investigation of Watergate. Was that a constitutional authority?” You can hear Dershowtiz say, “absolutely.. absolutely”. He is the expert on the Constitution, so, yes. But sure, it may have gone to impeachment after that because he was wrong.
        
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        June 9, 2017 12:24pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Which means that the POTUS’ power is not absolute. Yes, firing Comey in and of itself is not obstruction of justice, indeed Trump had the authority, just as Nixon did with his request to Gray. But not if it can be shown Trump both intended and did obstruct justice. And from a practical perspective, Trump has plausible deniability unless someone produces a smoking gun.
        
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        June 9, 2017 12:57pm
  - KevOB
    
    There was an underlying criminal act which the President became aware of later. His office held a safe with brown paper bags from which the ‘plumbers’ were paid. Nixon breached his oath of office by participating in a coverup.
    
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    June 9, 2017 12:02pm
- KevOB
  
  I enjoy a law professor using elementary logic to trap fools.
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:55am
- peterwn
  
  This would be an a par with Helen Clark’s comment “By definition, I cannot leak”.
  
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  June 9, 2017 12:00pm
  - KevOB
    
    She may well be right.
    
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    June 9, 2017 12:26pm
    - thedavincimode
      
      A casualty of her own health system.
      
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      June 9, 2017 1:35pm
Southern Raider

Coming to a university near you…. Muslim “safe spaces”

In Victoria the Muslim Council has proposed safe spaces be funded so that young Muslims can debate topics like radicalisation in safety away from the public and protection forces

This is going to end well
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June 9, 2017 12:02pm
- RalphT
  
  I’m a great believer in safe places for Muslims, and think all the young ones we have here should be made to attend. There are in fact several where I think they should go; Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen…
  
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  June 9, 2017 12:13pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Greenland has lots of space . . . . .
    
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    June 9, 2017 12:42pm
- Garbageman
  
  SR at the very bottom of the article i read the person in charge of that area of Victoria state funding said that will never happen Aussie isn’t a lost cause just yet, sorry haven’t time to trawl for the link
  
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  June 9, 2017 1:27pm
  - Garbageman
    
    What the hell the paperwork will still be here Monday here’s the relevant quote.
    
    “Victoria State Premier Daniel Andrews ruled out any possibility of funding such an initiative.
    “I am very troubled by the suggestion that we might have a space where people could be radical as part of a de-radicalisation programme. That makes no sense to me whatsoever”.
    
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    June 9, 2017 1:48pm
Fletch

ps, Andrew McCarthy has a whole column on the president’s constitutional rights. Worth reading the whole thing, but an excerpt –

It is not enough to say the president is the chief executive. In our system, he is the only executive with constitutional power. (“The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America” —Article II, Section 1.) Every other executive-branch officer is not just subordinate to the president. These inferior officers do not have their own power. The power they exercise is the president’s power. They are mere delegates.

These subordinate executive officials include FBI agents and federal prosecutors. Every day, throughout the United States, these officials exercise executive discretion to shut down investigations or decline prosecutions. Very often, these are cases in which crimes have been committed and a prosecution would be viable.

In our system, it is not mandatory that a viable case be indicted and prosecuted. Instead, in each case, agents and prosecutors weigh the equities: the seriousness of the crime, including the harm to any victims, versus personal considerations relevant to the suspect — his history of criminality or positive contribution to society, whether other negative consequences have befallen him such that prosecution would be overkill, whether there are means other than the criminal law (such as civil suits or community service) that would adequately address the wrongdoing, etc. The Justice Department (of which the FBI is a component) decides, based on the totality of the circumstances, whether further investigation and prosecution are warranted.

In this, again, they are exercising the president’s power. In light of the fact that the president is their superior and the power is his, the president cannot have less discretion than a United States attorney or an FBI supervisor does in weighing the equities and deciding that a case should not be pursued. Charging discretion, moreover, is like the pardon power in this regard: It is a power of the executive that is unreviewable by the courts.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/448427/comey-testimony-pressure-not-obstruction
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June 9, 2017 12:08pm
Stars And Stripes

Phillip John Smith wins $3500 payout from Government after winning hair piece court case
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/93501538/phillip-john-smith-wins-3500-payout-from-government-after-winning-hair-piece-court-case
“Convicted murderer Phillip John Smith will receive a $3500 Government payout after he won a court case centred around his toupee”.

This country has gone bonkers when we are giving payouts to murderers because they were denied the right to wear a wig in jail.
Human rights gone mad.
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June 9, 2017 12:16pm
- Kimbo
  
  Ah, the tenure of Geoffrey Palmer and Minister of Justice in the 4th Labour government – the gift that keeps on giving. No, Geoffrey, we did not need a form of codified constitutional freedoms like the Americans, as we have plenty of it under our pragmatic Westminster arrangements.
  
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  June 9, 2017 12:19pm
- starboard
  
  Only in Nil Ziland Stars..nothing surprises me anymore.
  
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  June 9, 2017 12:47pm
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  I’m thinking of getting pictures of the wigless wonder printed so I can post them on every lamp post in protest.
  
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  June 9, 2017 12:53pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Well, I suppose in our upside-down world, if a river can be a person, that inhuman sack of shite can have “rights”. But never his victims.
  
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  June 9, 2017 2:08pm
Rodney Randall

http://www.kiwisfirst.com/judge-file-index/high-court-justice-edwin-david-wylie/

High Court Justice Edwin WYLIE

“Justice Wylie is less than an imposing presence on the bench. He generally comes across as feeble and indecisive, commonly asking appearing counsel whether they agree with his conclusions and then changing his conclusions radically if one side – particularly the Crown – suggest he missed the point.As with most judges in New Zealand, Wylie J can be fair if there is no personal reason not to be. He is an average lawyer who has successfully fought above his weight but, because he commonly is riddled with self-doubt and is cursed with an overwhelming compulsion to please his audience, he is the butt of many jokes by the lawyers who appear before him.”
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June 9, 2017 12:47pm
- Rodney Randall
  
  Freedom of expression
  Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form.
  
  Phillip John Smith certainly ‘expressed’ himself when he stabbed a 35-year-old Wellington man 19 times as he tried to protect his 13-year-old son.
  
  Should have been executed
  
  bullet back of head.
  
  Toupee cremated
  
  Kimbo to administer the last rites:)
  
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  June 9, 2017 12:53pm
  - Kimbo
    
    “We commit him to the dust, and commend him to the LORD, in the certain expectation of the resurrection of the dead, and righteous judgement”.
    
    Done!
    
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    June 9, 2017 1:40pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Kimbo:
      
      the certain expectation of the resurrection of the dead
      
      Good heavens no! Please make sure that Phillip John Smith stays six feet underground! (Nasska may be available if you need some inspiration for non-resurrection rites!)
      
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      June 9, 2017 1:44pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Sorry, mate, I don’t make the rules 🙂 – although I do commend an Amillennial interpretation of the “thousand years” of Revelation 20:7:
        
        Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2)
        
        5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)…7 When the thousand years are over…11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (The Revelation 5a, 7a, 11-15).
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amillennialism
        
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        June 9, 2017 1:57pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Kimbo:
        
        I do commend an Amillennial interpretation of the “thousand years” of Revelation 20:7
        
        Are you a Doctor Who fan by any chance?
        
        The real Doctor finishes Extremis, and turns to the Vault behind him, revealed in flashbacks to hold Missy whom he had spared from execution but vowed to keep locked in for one thousand years. Through the Vault doors, he asks Missy for her help to fight the upcoming invasion.
        
        My concern is that if we keep Phillip John Smith frozen for 1,000 years, a bit like Simon Phoenix in the movie Demolition Man, then some social justice warrior will decide to let him out.
        
        Could you please suggest another approach?
        
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        June 9, 2017 2:21pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Um, uptick from me, but I fear my pedantic demand for precision will yet again seem as if I fail to appreciate your humour. Smith will not be frozen. After death he will return to the dust, and then at “the end of the Age” his physical body will be reconstituted at the “Resurrection of the Dead”…for the final judgement. On this, Jews and Muslims agree with Christians.
        
        No, not a sci-fi fan, at all. Am way too cool for that 😉
        
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        June 9, 2017 2:27pm
    - waikatogirl
      
      The lord would chuck him downstairs ?
      
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      June 9, 2017 3:35pm
  - Rodney Randall
    
    Kimbo:
    
    “Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it.”
    
    Gerry Brownlee hammering the parliament crappers after a Bellamy’s buffet session? 🙂
    
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    June 9, 2017 2:19pm
- Gabby
  
  At least he doesn’t suppress details of cases where he helps out friends and relatives.
  
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  June 9, 2017 1:10pm
Fletch

Tucker Carlson Tonight. He starts by breaking down what happened in Comey’s testimony.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4lBDrr6J3E
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June 9, 2017 1:33pm
- Ross12
  
  Reading various reports on the hearing you could swear there were actually two different hearings.
  Comey threw Lynch under the bus, he proved Polosi, Shumer, Warner & Schiff lied when they repeatedly said on TV that Trump was under FBI investigation — Comey said yesterday he had specifically told them he was not under investigation.
  He blew up one of the big NYT’s article as being fake. He confirmed Trump had nothing to do with the Russians during the campaign and so the whole Russian issue is gone –even the MSNBC are saying that.
  But the leftie MSM are still scrambling, saying it was a big hit on Trump.
  Meanwhile Comey is actually ( ie. not rumours from an unnamed source) going to be sued in Court by a whistleblower.
  
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  June 9, 2017 2:05pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yep, the whole thing is just stupid, it really is. I guess we should have expected this when Trump won. The media have lost any sense of objectivity, where any little thing becomes the next Watergate. What an utter waste of time and resources.
    
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    June 9, 2017 2:26pm
  - Inandout
    
    Comey at 6’6″ fears being in the same room as 6’2″ Trump. Wow.
    
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    June 9, 2017 2:28pm
    - MCos
      
      Although I somehow don’t think it was his physical stature that was the problem there are probably young women all over America who know what he means.
      If it did come to a grappling match it wouldn’t be too dissimilar to the fight in Borat.
      
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      June 9, 2017 3:10pm
      - sooty
        
        Handbags at 5 paces!
        
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        June 9, 2017 4:40pm
    - mara
      
      Alpha vs beta male. How Comey grew to be 6ft 7 inches tall with such a defective spine is a mystery to me.
      
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      June 9, 2017 4:35pm
      - MCos
        
        How Trump can play so much golf with a crook foot that stopped him going to Vietnam baffles half of America.
        I’ll give him his due. He’s never said an angel appeared and told him to pick up his clubs and walk again.
        
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        June 9, 2017 5:09pm
  - chiz
    
    Ross12:
    
    He confirmed Trump had nothing to do with the Russians during the campaign
    
    He said no such thing. What he said was that Trump wasn’t (currently) under investigation.
    
    It was pretty clear from his answer to another question that he personally suspected that there might be something to the collusion claims but he wasn’t prepared to go into detail in the open session.
    
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    June 9, 2017 4:40pm
    - Ross12
      
      OK chiz if you want to be pedantic I should have said ” he basically confirmed …..”
      If he believed there was collusion then an investigation into Trump would have been instigated months ago but it hasn’t so we can fairly confidently conclude he didn’t think he had enough evidence to go forward with an investigation. That is, Trump is in the clear.
      
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      June 9, 2017 5:10pm
    - mara
      
      MCos, I think I may have reported you accidently. Sorry.
      
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      June 9, 2017 5:32pm
      - dad4justice
        
        Oh no mara such a tragedy. Report me as I am insane.
        
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        June 9, 2017 5:35pm
cmm

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/93515994/further-six-people-charged-with-murder-after-invercargill-death

Seven of NZ’s finest ferals arrested for a murder.

We really have some slime that needs chlorination.
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June 9, 2017 1:35pm
- Garbageman
  
  Some days living in this part of paradise especially a small quiet place like Invers it is easy to forget that mongrels do indeed live among us thankfully most keep well below the radar here, a timely reminder to always be vigilant
  
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  June 9, 2017 2:03pm
B.L.Zeebub

The joke that is the NZ legal system continues,
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11873107

I guess I haven`t opened the right cornflakes packet, yet to find a Judges qualification, maybe Kelloggs have run out.
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June 9, 2017 1:42pm
KevOB

I do not condone Smith’s conduct but he must be reasonably able. He has got nothing out of the case only having his expenses met.
Smith has likely got up his jailer’s nose with this nuisance and they may privately exact their costs.
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June 9, 2017 2:34pm
- Reid
  
  I do not condone Smith’s conduct but he must be reasonably able.
  
  He [the judge] ordered Corrections to pay Smith $3507.10, which includes $3450 for legal costs, $35 for phone cards and $22.10 for stationery.
  
  It doesn’t take a lot of skill to find a bleeding heart lawyer from inside prison where they let you call them.
  
  The issue with this is not the judge it’s the fucking law. And guess who makes those.
  
  If the fucking law doesn’t allow “the system” not only to rule out this bastard from taking action over something of this nature but also disallows “the system” from punishing this bastard for being so fucking cheeky as to dare to waste “the system’s” precious time over matters of this nature, then the fucking law is broken and the people who make them need to be fucking told in no uncertain terms the current situation is not acceptable and it needs to change, right fucking now.
  
  And guess who those people are.
  
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  June 9, 2017 2:43pm
DifferentPerspective

Virtue-signalling kills

Italian woman virtue-signals by hitch-hiking from Italy to Israel for world peace and to show that muslims aren’t barbarous savages.

Tragically, she got raped and murdered in muslim Turkey by a barbarous muslim savage. The first muslim country she got to!

Virtue-signalling should carry a health warning!
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June 9, 2017 2:37pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Oh dear, they never learn. I wonder what caused it. Her being a woman, an “artist” or a Social Justice Wackjob? I don’t think any of those things are popular in Islam.
  
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  June 9, 2017 2:58pm
- cha
  
  In 2008 a young woman was brutally raped and murdered.
  
  Nine years later a piece of shit makes hay gloating over her death.
  
  edit: oh look, her murderer was a piece of shit, too.
  
  According to the information given by Ekin, Karataş’s statement was taken. The accused said he did not remember that day, since he had drank some alcohol and used some drugs. Therefore, the statements that he had made before were read to him. Karataş accepted that he had committed the crime.
  
  http://bianet.org/english/print/110646-the-accused-admits-his-guilt-in-pippa-bacca-case
  
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  June 9, 2017 3:39pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    At least one other man was involved with this crime
    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/life-sentence-upheld-in-murder-of-bacca.aspx?pageID=238&nID=18864&NewsCatID=341
    
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    June 9, 2017 4:10pm
Jack5

The murdering paedophile who fled to Brazil and was recaptured has been awarded $3500 damages – from honest taxpayers – because he wasn’t allowed to wear his wig in jail.

More than injustice: it’s a sick joke.

This man was allowed to run a business from within prison, then skipped to Brazil. Too bad we didn’t have capital punishment when he was tried for murdering the father of a boy he molested.

The Indian dairy owners are right about the NZ justice system. Palmer started the rot, and it’s been maintained and progressed by PC twats and soft people who live in safe, green suburbs where there is little mayhem.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11873107
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June 9, 2017 3:45pm
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Yes – and ~~National~~ Labour Lite are just sitting by as daily we get stupid shit like this happening.
  
  Becroft wants the little luvvies who are bashing up dairy owners to be given hugs in the Youth Court.
  
  National – crickets chirping
  
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  June 10, 2017 4:51pm
flipper

Jarrett on Comey.
Worth reading because TV and other NZ MSM will not provide even a smidgeon…..

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/06/08/gregg-jarrett-comey-exonerates-trump-so-much-for-obstruction.html
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June 9, 2017 3:46pm
RF

When Comey interviewed Crooked Hillary concerning her dodgy emails no one took a statement or made notes.

When Trump was spoken to, Comey was very quick to take notes after and share them with other agents and indirectly the media.

Does not pass the smell test.
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June 9, 2017 3:52pm
- Kimbo
  
  One was a meeting with the POTUS, the other was not…
  
  This is the same Comey who allegedly wrecked Clinton’s election prospects, btw,
  
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  June 9, 2017 3:58pm
  - Fletch
    
    What’s funny now is that Comey said he probably wouldn’t have made that statement about Hillary’s emails had it not been for the meeting on the tarmac between Bill and Loretta Lynch. So Hillary really killed her own chances.
    
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    June 9, 2017 4:39pm
- cha
  
  When Comey interviewed Crooked Hillary concerning her dodgy emails no one took a statement or made notes.
  
  Yeah nah.
  
  https://www.scribd.com/document/322851223/FBI-Hillary-Clinton-Email-Notes-1-2#from_embed
  
  https://www.scribd.com/document/325084174/FBI-Clinton#from_embed
  
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  June 9, 2017 4:01pm
- waripori
  
  Are you seriously suggesting that the FBI carried out a formal interview with Hillary Clinton , former first lady and , at that time ,likely next President of the US and did not keep a record?Bloody hell some people are dumb.
  
  Comey’s testimony was a much watched event. Apparently bars opened early so people would have peanuts available. The big takeaway has to be Comey saying something along the lines of” I took notes because I sensed the President was likely to lie about what was said later.”
  
  Trumps approval ratings now well under 40% and likely to fall further with that image in people’s minds. If the GOP don’t win the Georgia special election watch Republican’s run away from Trump in droves.
  
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  June 9, 2017 4:09pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    You’re the ‘dumb’ one. It wasn’t a ‘formal’ interview.
    ‘The American public will not be able to read a transcript of Hillary Clinton’s recent interview with the FBI because the bureau did not transcribe it, FBI Director James Comey told Congress on Thursday.
    
    Clinton was also not placed under oath during the interview, which was conducted Saturday at FBI headquarters. The three-and-a-half hour session was also not recorded, Comey told Florida Rep. John Mica during a House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing.’
    http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/07/clinton-not-under-oath-during-fbi-interview-which-was-not-transcribed/
    
    Not transcribed because not recorded so only notes were made on a pad. Hardly a heavy interview.
    Oh and Trumps Pop Poll of 37% is the same as Bill Clinton was at this stage. That’s the RCP average.
    The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows that 46% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance.
    Support amongst the GOP is still very high.
    Once again you show how little you know.
    #TDS
    
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    June 9, 2017 4:49pm
  - Nookin
    
    So much of what Comey has done and said over the last 12 months or so suggests that he is a political animal and not the principled law enforcer that he pretends to be.
    As I recall, when he decided that Clinton had no case to answer (contrary at least to convention if not mandatory procedure), there were many in the FBI who overtly challenged him. After all, it was not his decision to make.
    I think that this is what Trump was referring to when he expressed the view that there was dissent within the FBI. The extent to which that dissent was described to Trump has never really been disclosed. This makes it a little difficult to accept Comey’s assertion that Trump lied about it.
    
    There is so much that Comey has said or has not said that detracts from his credibility. Flipper (above) is linked to an interesting article.
    One really has to ask why he announced that he was re-opening the investigation into Clinton unless there was some internal revolt against his previous decision not to take any action. (Perhaps I should have said “… against the decision that was properly the Attorney-Gen’s to make but which Comey improperly usurped.”)
    
    Looking at it objectively, probably the worst that could be said of Trump (in this case) is that he was a clumsy, ham-fisted businessman/reality TV presenter trying, but failing, to be a politician.
    Comey , unfortunately has come across as a bit of a weasel
    
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    June 9, 2017 6:43pm
Nostradamus

An unusual headline:

NZ First Leader Winston Peters auctioned off at ladies charity lunch

NZ First leader Winston Peters was put under the hammer and auctioned off at the Ladies Charity Luncheon in Tauranga today. How much to have Winston entertain your table of guests for the duration of the lunch? $600, with all proceeds going to two local charities.

Northland voters will be delighted to see Winston Peters supporting two local charities – in Tauranga.
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June 9, 2017 4:03pm
- Kimbo
  
  Did Chuck Bird tramp from Ngaruawahia over the Kaimai or Mamaku Ranges to be there? And if so, did he do a “Tom Jones groupie” and take off and throw his underwear at Winston? So many questions, that I demand Chuck answers. 😉
  
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  June 9, 2017 4:07pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Kimbo:
    
    This was the Ladies Charity Luncheon. The closest Chuck Bird would’ve got to Winston the Man would’ve been door security.
    
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    June 9, 2017 4:23pm
    - Kimbo
      
      Picture just in from Tauranga:
      
      https://www.flickr.com/photos/130865463@N08/34767866840/in/pool-1139206@N24/
      
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      June 9, 2017 4:31pm
    - nasska
      
      Not in his high heels & hot pants Nostra.
      
      A quick gobble of the security guard & he would have been through the door before you could say “Winston’s groupie”! 🙂
      
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      June 9, 2017 4:31pm
  - Happychappy
    
    Chuck should down the Delta robustly debating Politics with all his Friday night mates.
    
    6 0
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    June 9, 2017 5:00pm
- stigie
  
  I have on good authority that Winston used to use a certain ladies establishment a few years back in Wellington, it was reported to me that he only likes a certain type of lady, he likes to split dark oak !~
  
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  June 9, 2017 4:38pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Stigie:
    
    Are we talking about the Quarry Inn here by any chance? Is this something that Mikenmild could assist us with?
    
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    June 9, 2017 4:41pm
  - Happychappy
    
    stigie:
    I bet if he had the opportunity now his hands would shake so much he would not be able to plug the hole.
    
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    June 9, 2017 4:46pm
    - stigie
      
      Hope you aren’t talking about fisting Happychappy, most of that happens in the south west corner of Hagley Park along from Dad’s work..?
      
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      June 9, 2017 4:52pm
      - dad4justice
        
        You got me again stigfly yawn, yawn, the only fisting I know is when some timid creep gives me static face to face. I usually knock their stupid block off ! I have always in the past rung an ambulance for the fools. I am a nice bloke. Want a go mate ? Free hit MAKE MY DAY 🙂 God I am good.
        
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        June 9, 2017 5:21pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Dad:
        
        Have you considered participating in the Fight For Life event? You could take on an army of Kiwibloggers (or possibly one with a multiple-identity crisis) and make a positive contribution to charity at the same time!
        
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        June 9, 2017 6:07pm
      - dad4justice
        
        Yes I would love that Nostra I could donate the money raised to Cancer Suffering Children. You know who I want to knock out eh, he has 12 different identities on here. You know how sick Clint is eh?
        
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        June 9, 2017 6:20pm
      - Awww C-mon
        
        Fuck yes! I’m up Dad!
        
        You vs Me and all my personalities!
        
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        June 9, 2017 7:43pm
- Fletch
  
  I believe we have some shaky footage –
  
  https://youtu.be/QKGBB22nsZQ?t=1m40s
  
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  June 9, 2017 4:54pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Goodness me Fletch – you refer to “some shaky footage” right after comments by Happychappy and Stigie about fisting. Is it safe to click on your link? 🙂
    
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    June 9, 2017 5:00pm
    - stigie
      
      Yep, i clicked onto it Nostra and it’s safe, it’s not about fisting or glory holes so click away ole chap..?
      
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      June 9, 2017 5:08pm
      - Reid
        
        or not, depending on what you’re hoping for…
        
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        June 9, 2017 5:16pm
Happychappy

Nostradamus:
What would you say to the UN after they poked their nose in over the book of lies Hit and Run
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June 9, 2017 5:16pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Happychappy:
  
  Is your question based on a particular article you’ve seen?
  
  An interim answer: the NZ Government will ensure that Nicky Hager is suitably rewarded for his literary efforts at next year’s Fictitious Literature awards.
  
  Edit: I’ve just seen this article
  
  The United Nations Committee Against Torture has asked the government what measures have been taken to ensure allegations about SAS actions during a raid in Afghanistan will be fully investigated. The UN committee has published a list of 34 questions for New Zealand to report on. The government has two years to do so.
  
  You’d have thought the United Nations Committee Against Torture would have other priorities – apparently not.
  
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  June 9, 2017 5:42pm
  - dad4justice
    
    We should have a hung parliament and hang Nicky Hager in October. I need a new job; Hangman d4j got a certain noose to it.:-)
    
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    June 9, 2017 5:45pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Dad:
      
      I think we still celebrate Guy Fawkes (even though fireworks and fun have been banned) so if you could hold off until November…?
      
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      June 9, 2017 5:52pm
      - dad4justice
        
        Ok we strap Sticky Nicky to a rocket and fire the pathetic creep into North Korea.
        
        2 1
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        June 9, 2017 5:55pm
    - sam green
      
      But I hear you’re not very well hung dad?
      
      3 2
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      June 9, 2017 6:08pm
      - stigie
        
        Put up photos please sam..?
        
        3 1
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        June 9, 2017 7:08pm
      - sam green
        
        I see no evil …..
        
        2 2
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        June 9, 2017 7:09pm
      - dad4justice
        
        pathetic big bruv such a sad case of pathological hatred.
        
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        June 9, 2017 7:15pm
  - Happychappy
    
    Nostradamus:
    I find it a bit rich when they are seen to do nothing on places like Syria.
    
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    June 9, 2017 6:22pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Happychappy:
      
      If they’ve got spare time, North Korea and Zimbabwe could be worth a look, too.
      
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      June 9, 2017 6:43pm
Reid

The UK PM May’s Conservatives have fallen short of winning an outright majority in the parliament as 633 seats had been declared.

The Tories have so far lost 11 seats and stand at 307. The Labour party is up 28 mandates at 259, Sky News results show. The result indicates that no party will get the parliamentary majority.

May needed to get 326 seats for her party to have an absolute majority, with only 16 seats left to declare. The Scottish National Party stands at 34 and the Liberal Democrats at 12.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201706091054464610-tories-lose-majority-633-seats-declared/

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
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June 9, 2017 5:21pm
Reid

I’ve been waiting for someone to come out with something which makes sense on the why of the Qatar-evil empire split before I pass comment and this is it.

https://sputniknews.com/columnists/201706071054403757-trump-sword-dance-wahhabi-war/

I’ve read various explanations but this one makes a lot of sense.

There is another possible factor he doesn’t touch on at all which may also have had significant influence, but I’m waiting to see how things play out before I mention that one.

Anyway, the pipeline map on this link will give you useful background to what Escobar is saying.

http://www.oil-price.net/en/articles/oil-prices-and-syrian-civil-war.php
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June 9, 2017 5:48pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  well , that’s my reading of the matter
  http://www.reuters.com/article/us-qatar-gas-idUSKBN175181
  
  Qatar & Iran develop & control the largest Nat gas field in the World.
  
  Erdogan is sending in troops to support Qatar
  https://www.rt.com/news/391460-erdogan-turkey-qatar-deployment/
  
  Europe needs to keep Erdogan happy.
  
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  June 9, 2017 7:27pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Apparently there were discussions at the G8 with Trump about the US exporting Natural Gas.
    
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    June 9, 2017 7:39pm
- SPC
  
  Qatar is not subordinate to Teheran or Riyadh, as it is so economically independent (and with the US base somewhat secure otherwise).
  
  Those of the follow us or them camps find this inconvenient.
  
  As host of al Jazeera it tends to be a supporter of populist Moslem causes (as well as taking a more diplomatic than blindly partisan position). This offends SA and Egypt – so they exploit the Hamas angle to work with the Zionist ear of Trump.
  
  Worse, Qatar can switch from the rebels in Syria to the Assad camp and still get a pipe-line through.
  
  Qatar is not dependent on the Sunni strong men winning, unless they are broken to the King’s fist.
  
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  June 9, 2017 7:32pm
Nostradamus

Reid:

I remember you saying that you have extra time to spend debating issues on Kiwiblog. Could you and SPC please close out this debate that promised so much but never happened? And, while I’m at it, David Garrett wanted to debate Hellstorm with you – which also never happened.

(Don’t ask – I just remember these things!)
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June 9, 2017 5:57pm
- mikenmild
  
  I seem to recall that Reid has claimed not to know anything about German history – so cannot be calleda Holocaust denier, for example.
  
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  June 9, 2017 6:21pm
  - Reid
    
    No I didn’t say that at all mm, that’s a very slimy technique you have, to twist things.
    
    Very slimy indeed.
    
    What I said was while I probably know much more about WWII history than most on this blog since it’s been one of my lifelong study hobbies, I’d never bothered to go into the details of the Holohoax so there wasn’t much point in debating it with me.
    
    To prevent you from being slimy again, I’ll clarify, again, the Holohoax refers not to the historical event but to the subsequent propaganda surrounding it. I doubt this will prevent you from making another slimy accusation about my using the term Holohoax, but that’s not my problem, that’s yours.
    
    Incidentally since I said that I’ve listened to some of Irving’s talks and as expected, what he’s said about the Holocaust is nothing like what’s been reported and subsequently swallowed whole as fact by all the moronic sheeple who’ve listened only to what someone else has told them he has said. For instance, Irving has never denied it, at all. He has said the camps established in the East and the Einsatzgruppen operations happened pretty much as reported. He’s always said that. But he does question is Aushcwitz, and whether or not, while being a work camp with, as he says, all the attendant nastiness present in those during the Nazi era, it was a death camp responsible for two million deaths, as the Holohoax alleges. And he gives many, many, many facts backing up those questions. Such as the only gas chamber expert in the US who presented a report finding no cyanide residue in the walls of the “gas chamber” and the fact, yes, the fact, the “gas chamber” was built by the Poles in 1947.
    
    Of course you should listen to what he says and assess for yourself and these are but a google youtube away, but given your slimy propensity. one imagines you won’t be interested in actually getting facts, they don’t seem important to you at all. You’d rather sling emotive but baseless allegations, as you have done in most of your 29,846 comments to date. So we won’t expect you to change that record, will we, mm.
    
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    June 9, 2017 6:39pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Oh, so you don’t know much about the Holocaust, but you are readily able to recite the usual denialist talking points.
      Ha ha.
      
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      June 9, 2017 6:53pm
- Reid
  
  Not interested Nosty, I don’t find the views or perspectives of Garrett or SPC insightful and I doubt anything would be gained from re-traversing ground already travelled.
  
  They’re very conventional thinkers on most issues and I can pretty much predict what their responses would be to the points I would raise which is basically not to bother looking at it. Plus they’re not interested in shifting, plus I already know the general outline of their points because I used to think like them it’s just I’ve moved on from there while at the same time retaining my understanding of their world, so what’s the point, what’s in it for me?
  
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  June 9, 2017 6:52pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Reid:
    
    This is a brief comment as I’m using my mobile phone.
    
    David Garrett said he watched Hellfire in full – all 1.5 hours of it – so you’d both be debating one thing (a video) from an informed position. Over to you mate – he might have lost interest since then anyway.
    
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    June 9, 2017 7:58pm
    - mikenmild
      
      I rarely feel sorry for David Garrett, but it’s a shame for anyone to waste time on such bullshit.
      
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      June 9, 2017 8:15pm
      - Reid
        
        That’s another video you haven’t seen isn’t it mm.
        
        Does the fallacy of your position ever occur or are you too busy thinking up how best to sneer at the next thing which comes along?
        
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        June 9, 2017 8:17pm
    - Reid
      
      Yeah if he wants to cite the position in the video he’s talking about then discuss then move onto the next position in the video and discuss etc, that would be acceptable.
      
      Tell him I’m only doing it as a favour to you. If he was asking, I wouldn’t bother entertaining it.
      
      4 2
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      June 9, 2017 8:16pm
      - mikenmild
        
        What a beautiful combination of ignorance and arrogance…
        
        4 4
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        June 9, 2017 8:21pm
      - Reid
        
        Keep sneering mm. It helps us to recognise you.
        
        2 2
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        June 9, 2017 8:30pm
      - Reid
        
        Nosty as you know I like to explain and discuss the why. To me, the what where who and how isn’t interesting, since they’re facts and subject therefore to no mystery whatsoever provided your data is accurate.
        
        So the reason why I put those conditions on Garrett is I need to level the ground.
        
        Westminster lawyers are trained to lay out a whole case in silence from the opposition.
        
        Then face judgement.
        
        Since I’m not a lawyer, Westminster-trained or otherwise, I haven’t been trained to do that nor do I have practice in such.
        
        That gives Garrett a home-ground advantage which I’m not prepared to cede especially given most of the audience is already before we even start sitting in his side of the stands.
        
        I also don’t think that style is appropriate for a historical truth-seeking exercise.
        
        If one is discussing a narrative alternate to that which one has learned since one was a child and which is “accepted” and “knowledge” and “common sense,” then how does one best give justice to airing, freely, the alternate, in a way that people already inculcated into a certain worldview can accept?
        
        That’s the background problem I’m moderating here.
        
        Just to explain.
        
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        June 9, 2017 9:47pm
- mikenmild
  
  What Reid has said is quite true, Nostradamus. He has no interest in debating his views because he is already supremely confident that his unique gifts have provided him with truths beyond the ken of those mere mortals.
  It is a sad fact that those with a conspiracy mindset are extremely resistant to changing their worldview. The normal rules of evidence, logic and debate do not apply and any exchange end with them claiming victory, regardless of what any impartial observer might conclude.
  Best thing is just to mock their delusions.
  
  6 4
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  June 9, 2017 6:57pm
  - Reid
    
    Looked at a video of Irving’s talks yet mm?
    
    Here’s a couple just in case amongst your other shortcomings you don’t know how to drive google.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVqhmcyFrdc
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qAdJTHQysI
    
    There’s more in the sidebars. Unless you’ve watched those you know nothing about the subject of what he has actually said. Isn’t he fantastically lucid. No wonder they’ve tried so hard to shut him up.
    
    Facts mm.
    
    I know they hurt you.
    
    But you shouldn’t be afraid.
    
    2 5
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    June 9, 2017 7:06pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Makes you wonder how he was such a failure at defending his views in his misguided attempt to sue Deborah Lipstadt.
      
      3 4
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      June 9, 2017 7:12pm
      - Reid
        
        There’s a video on that too mm.
        
        Perhaps you should look at them to find out what happened.
        
        But of course facts don’t matter do they.
        
        Of course not.
        
        Incidentally Nosty, mm’s reaction is typical and Garrett and SPC would be exactly what his is if I took up their subjects. You give them facts, but they’re not interested in looking at them. Instead they simply bray and propaganda that’s been forced into their skulls. Just as mm is.
        
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        June 9, 2017 7:19pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Read the trial transcript actually…
        
        5 2
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        June 9, 2017 7:25pm
      - Reid
        
        In that case pray detail Irving’s case for us.
        
        Just in bullet form. Within 3 minutes. You should know it off the top of your head, if you were interested enough actually to do that.
        
        Clock’s ticking.
        
        3 3
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        June 9, 2017 7:27pm
      - Reid
        
        I call bullshit mm.
        
        You could have easily done it if you’d really read it but you’re still editing what you’ve just googled, so sorry mate, no banana. And no surprise either, that you do that. Typical of you.
        
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        June 9, 2017 7:34pm
      - mikenmild
        
        You haven’t read the judgement yourself? I pity you.
        
        3 3
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        June 9, 2017 7:43pm
      - Reid
        
        Neither have you, I now know.
        
        I know being disengenuous is in your DNA mm, but it is tiresome.
        
        Comes across as being slimy. Gives you all those downticks you get.
        
        Maybe you should try something else, then people wouldn’t dislike you as much as they clearly do.
        
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        June 9, 2017 7:53pm
Stars And Stripes

Child killer Troy Taylor will spend at least 17 years behind bars
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/93498513/child-killer-troy-taylor-will-spend-at-least-17-years-behind-bars
“The toddler was later found to have suffered 59 separate injuries. Autopsy scans identified a number of broken bones, including both shoulder blades, his left forearm and several vertebrae”.

Troy Taylor, you are a beast.
7 1
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June 9, 2017 6:43pm
- dad4justice
  
  Troy Taylor should be hung. I would love to do it.
  
  3 5
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  June 9, 2017 6:48pm
  - mikenmild
    
    Should we ever bring back capital punishment, I should hope that we would have the sense not to employ as executioners any sickos who get off on it.
    
    4 5
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    June 9, 2017 7:16pm
    - dad4justice
      
      Low blow milky your head is safe how do we guillotine a troll jellyfish?
      
      4 5
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      June 9, 2017 7:21pm
- Southern Raider
  
  But how did it come to this. Wasn’t anti smacking going to save all these vulnerable children?
  
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  June 10, 2017 8:23am
stigie

Shit, seems there’s a lot of ratbags need to be hung, sounds like a great job for you Dad, you’ll need to wear a hood over your head with a couple of cut outs to see, and then no one will know your identity !~

You will put all the other identities to shame !~
4 1
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June 9, 2017 7:22pm
- dad4justice
  
  dad4justice identity is Peter Burns from Christchurch you insipid cowardly pus stain. What’s your Clint?
  
  5 5
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  June 9, 2017 7:24pm
  - stigie
    
    Beautiful Dad, just beautiful !~
    
    4 1
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    June 9, 2017 7:44pm
    - dad4justice
      
      No doubt a spineless non identity small cock coward would ever reveal their real name on here?
      
      1 4
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      June 9, 2017 7:45pm
      - sam green
        
        http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/one-last-pictures-pete-burns-9118598
        
        Oh dear dad ……
        
        3 3
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        June 9, 2017 7:56pm
      - stigie
        
        Hell no Dad, someone like yourself who abuses other commentors are more than likely to take it to the next level such as hanging and shooting other commentors on here, so that’s why we have a pseudonym ole chap.
        
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        June 9, 2017 8:02pm
      - dad4justice
        
        Goodnight coward club! Try and grow a backbone bb, haha yeah right. What a sad creep you are.
        
        1 3
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        June 9, 2017 8:31pm
      - stigie
        
        Goodnight Dad. xxxxxx
        
        3 1
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        June 9, 2017 8:36pm
      - sam green
        
        Nite dad – see you later ?
        
        2 2
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        June 9, 2017 8:49pm
  - Kimbo
    
    Any relation of 1970 Canterbury All Black Jake Burns? I see today Fergi McCormick is still trying to claim the fighting in the infamous 1971 Canterbury vs Lions game started when a Lions lock (Willie John McBride?) smacked Burns, and, of course Alistair Hopkinson only broke Sandy Carmichael’s cheekbone after warning him twice for dropping his shoulder in the front row. Also true the other Lions prop invalided out of the tour on that day, Ray McLoughlin broke his thumb hitting Alex Wyllie’s skull. But then Wyllie must have been just standing there doing nothing…yeah right. Is part of the greatness of that Lions team that they not only beat Canterbury decisively, but also went on to dominate the scrums and win the series against the All Blacks with two rookie props, Ian McLachlan and Sean Lynch.
    
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    June 9, 2017 7:51pm
nasska

104 years ago today, suffragette Emily Davison died after throwing herself in front of king’s horse. History remembers her as being influential in giving women the right to vote.

What history doesn’t remember is her husband, who didn’t get his tea that night.
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June 9, 2017 8:43pm
Nookin

I think most of those observations were from a journo, Kimbo. Was it Lindsay Knight? He did interview Fergie, tho.

I cannot remember the article saying that Carmichael dropped his shoulder. I think that the complaint was that they were boring in. Carmichael supposedly took a couple of darkened eyes into the game following efforts the previous week. There is an inconsistency in your narrative –Carmichael was the innocent victim of unprovoked thuggery but when Wylie was on the receiving end of a king hit, he must have deserved it.

Carmichael did not deserve what he got but don’t pretend that the team that invented “99” were innocent victims.

The Lions had a hugely effective spin machine and a salivating press at their heels. NZRFU simply bowed under. We were not far from the era when its Chairmen needed cue cards to remember no comment.
Jake Burns was a good St Bedes man. I think Dad went to St Bedes also. Didnt he make Jock Hobbs look silly?
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June 9, 2017 9:08pm
- Kimbo
  
  An objection from the People’s Republic of Canterbury?. If Carmichael was boring in then it would have been on the Canterbury hooker, Tane Norton. Oh, yes, and it was the 1974 Lions who invented the “99” call. Other than the fighting un the Canterbury, Hawkes Bay and Maori games, and the All Blacks in the fourth test (Peter Whiting and Jazz Muller it was a remarkably clean tour, mainly because the Lions were too busy winning with brains and/or style, they had no interest in fighting. And they left a great legacy. Strangely, the Brits and Irish thought it was the need for forward dominance, whereas we learned again the need to use our backs. Modern NZ rugby style is traceable back to that team.
  
  Also, sadly, Canterbury teams of that era were well known in New Zealand provincial competition as dirty, despite being good teams, with good players. But it is to Canterbury rugby adminitrator’s credit that they had a good look in the mirror and cleaned up their game in no small part due to that game. The modern Crusaders, who play a game the 1971 Lions would recognise, is a fitting response.
  
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  June 9, 2017 10:21pm
Reid

Eric Trump epic (but true) rant on the Dems, on Hannity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQtYFuGPDJQ
1 2
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June 9, 2017 10:06pm
Inandout

The Clinton Foundation has an odour.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2017/06/08/u-s-state-department-plans-response-to-hillary-clinton-probe-request.html
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June 9, 2017 10:46pm
Nookin

Kimbo
A plea in mitigation rather than a defence to what happened.
Yes – the props bored in on the hooker. Canty’s props sorted it. That was part of their job description in those days. Yes the lions were good — bloody good — and they out witted NZ. They were not pure as the driven snow, however. Willie John did not come up with 99 overnight.

And it was not just Canterbury. Vodanovich promised another Paschendale if the lions didn’t stop killing the ball. Sadly, at that time, we didn’t have the players with the skills or mindset to counter them. We had just been to SA the previous year. Subtlety was not in the lexicon.
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June 9, 2017 10:56pm
- Kimbo
  
  As per Willie John McBride after Ivan the Terrible’s Passchendaele comment, “I have been in Lions tours where we killed the ball in the rucks. This current team is too good, we don’t want to.” They won with defence in the first of 1971 with defence, the third with lightening attacking in the first 15 minutes, drew the 4th and won the series with percentage rugby, then reformed as the Barbarians in 1973 won with XV man football. Even more than the 1937 Speingboks the greatest and most influential team that ever toured NZ.
  
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  June 9, 2017 11:09pm
Manolo

The left-wing MSM celebrates:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3760495/worlds-media-mocks-theresa-may-claiming-she-shot-herself-with-risky-election-gamble/
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June 10, 2017 6:22am
- SPC
  
  Most of the UK MSM backed May.
  
  The Sun failed to take out the Cor-Bin trash, because the young who turned out to vote for once do not read the MSM.
  
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  June 10, 2017 11:07am

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