General Debate 3 June 2017

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William of Ockham

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/02/paris-climate-deal-to-trumps-rogue-america

For millennia before the middle of the 18th century, standards of living stagnated. It was the Enlightenment, with its embrace of reasoned discourse and scientific inquiry, that underpinned the enormous increases in standards of living in the subsequent two and a half centuries.

Trump’s reneging on Paris climate deal turns the US into a rogue state. Trump seeks to reverse all of that. His rejection of science, in particular climate science, threatens technological progress.

America will suffer under Trump. Its global leadership role was being destroyed, even before Trump broke faith with over 190 countries by withdrawing from the Paris accord.

So what should the world do with a babyish bully in the sandbox, who wants everything for himself and won’t be reasoned with? How can the world manage a “rogue” US?

This is the time for Europe to pull together, recommit itself to the values of the Enlightenment, and stand up to the US, as France’s new president, Emmanuel Macron, did so eloquently with a handshake that stymied Trump’s puerile alpha-male approach to asserting power.

The good news is that the majority of Americans are not with Trump. Most Americans still believe in Enlightenment values, accept the reality of global warming and are willing to take action. But, as far as Trump is concerned, it should already be clear that reasoned debate will not work. It is time for action.

Joseph E Stiglitz is a Nobel prizewinner in economics, professor at Columbia University, a former senior vice-president and chief economist of the World Bank, and one-time chair of the US president’s council of economic advisers under Bill Clinton.
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June 3, 2017 8:00am
- axeman
  
  Is that the Bill Clinton that called it the Paris Climate ‘Treaty’? Never ratified by the Senate so Slick Willy knows shit.
  
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  June 3, 2017 8:15am
  - trout
    
    A more rational explanation of the US withdrawal from the climate accord (that you will not read in the newspaper).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rsh7rH1OtI
    Scott Pruitt explains how The US was getting screwed and yet was sustaining an enviable record of reducing CO2 emissions.
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:24am
- Paulus
  
  Bullshit – most Americans have no idea what the “Paris” accord is.
  Nor do they care if they have a job.
  Obummer signed the US by Presidential Order, to make him look like a Nobel Prizewinner, with the knowledge that the Senate would not agree anyway.
  In fact the US is carrying on doing good climate change things on it’s own look at California and even New York – it is not going to be led by paying billions of dollars to a bureaucratic Hotel/Meeting conference service.
  Many other countries only signed the agreement as long as somebody else pays.
  China for example does nothing until a 2030 start – Russia is something similar.
  
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  June 3, 2017 8:24am
  - sooty
    
    Silly Willie, still a snowflake bleating! Trump won and is the POTUS! Get over it. What are you going to do when Labour loses again and angry gets rolled?
    
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    June 3, 2017 8:55am
  - VicParking
    
    The reason everyone is up in arms is that the USA, as with defence and the united nations, is picking up the tab. China and Russia along with a lot of smaller countries pay didley squat. Let all these countries who are moaning put their money where there mouth is
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:17am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  John Bolton, former UN Ambassador, explains why Trump’s decision to exit the Paris Accord is the correct one for the US
  http://video.foxnews.com/v/5456566516001/?#sp=show-clips
  
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  June 3, 2017 8:52am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Maggy Wassillieff, John Bolton a pro Trumpist and Republican toady to boot,
    
    http://www.dailywire.com/news/10794/7-things-know-about-john-bolton-robert-kraychik
    
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    June 3, 2017 8:59am
    - Ross12
      
      So some one who supports President Trump is not allowed to have an opinion ?
      That sums up your world view completely , stephieboy.
      
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      June 3, 2017 9:11am
      - stephieboy
        
        Ross12 , no anyone is allowed an opinion . It merely puts some perspective into the debate . Trump ideological warrior John Bolton hardly a Nobel Prize winner in atmospheric science .
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:40am
  - Inandout
    
    And Tucker interviews a man who can’t explain why the world’s biggest polluters are left alone until 2030. This Mayor of Miami Beach thinks Miami will sink below the water line because of Trump, not because of China and India which are the world’s biggest polluters. The Mayor obviously knows nothing of the details of the Paris agreement, but he knows ‘most of the world’s scientists’ are for it. He can’t see that by tying the US to act immediately and pay huge compensation, their main competitors are free to pollute with impunity. This video should be required viewing for climatists.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-6fZ39XXdg
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:12am
  - KevOB
    
    It’s pleasing to hear a capable mind explain to a lower order journalist.
    We should resist this ceding of sovereignty too.
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:42am
- Fletch
  
  Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross puts it this way –
  
  “This was a deal that would have cost the economy $3 trillion over the next several decades. By 2040, our economy would have lost six-and-a-half million industrial sector jobs – almost half of which, 3.1 million, were in the manufacturing sector. That doesn’t make any sense to me,” he said.
  
  “It also doesn’t make sense that we were scheduled to put out a lot of money up front, but meanwhile, China would be able to increase its emissions every year for the next 13 years,” he continued. “That’s not a balanced arrangement. India made their participation contingent on receiving billions of dollars in foreign aid from developed countries. That’s not a balanced thing, either.”
  
  “It makes no sense as an economic deal. This is sloganeering in its worst fashion,” he declared.
  
  “It doesn’t surprise me that they’re angry that we pulled out because they were getting a relatively free ride out of the U.S.,” he said. “If someone was getting a free ride and now he no longer is, naturally, he’s going to be angry about that. So that doesn’t surprise me at all.”
  
  http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2017/06/02/wilbur-ross-europeans-angry-losing-free-ride-climate-accord-terrible-deal-america/
  
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  June 3, 2017 11:22am
  - Scott
    
    But fletch everyone knows that the USA pulling out of the Paris agreement is the end of the world! I know this because when Obama was inaugurated he said, this is the day that the oceans stop rising.
    Now that Obama is not there and we don’t have Paris, it stands to reason that the oceans will start rising again!
    Also since Trump took office the temperature of the world has gone up 0.5°!
    
    It’s the end of the world!
    
    WON’T SOMEONE THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!
    
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    June 3, 2017 2:53pm
Nukuleka

My day is made! I got in the first downtick for Mad Willy!!
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June 3, 2017 8:02am
- cmm
  
  He’s still up after an hour…
  
  Slipping. Must do better.
  
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  June 3, 2017 8:57am
axeman

Here is the morning laugh. See how the libtards got unhinged yesterday. Still too early for popcorn? https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06/01/the-craziest-reactions-to-trump-pulling-out-of-the-parisagreement/
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June 3, 2017 8:12am
- axeman
  
  Meanwhile it is suggested that ‘covfefe’ might be Arabic for revenge http://netrightdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Climate-Behead-NRD-600.jpg
  
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  June 3, 2017 8:29am
  - nasska
    
    There’s certainly a bit of uncertainty as to what “covfefe” means. So far my money’s on this suggestion from the Urban Dictionary:
    
    ….”A “covfefe” is what happens when you are taking a violent dump while trying to type “coverage”, then briefly convulse before dropping your phone in the toilet.”…..
    
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    June 3, 2017 8:42am
  - mikenmild
    
    I liked the bit where Trump forced Sean Spicer to tell the press that ‘covfefe’ was an actual word, but an in-joke only known to the President’s closest circle and therefore he couldn’t say what it means.
    
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    June 3, 2017 8:52am
  - KevOB
    
    Its a discrete reference to a phrase in a novel by Emily Beuaclaire “could our Vera ever forget episiotomy?”
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:53am
    - KevOB
      
      That book was significant because pages were referenced in codes in the war.
      
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      June 3, 2017 11:14am
- Nermal
  
  You can tell the mettle of a man by his enemies. Trumps enemies are significant by their quantity rather than their quality.
  
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  June 3, 2017 2:01pm
Longknives

There is a thing doing the rounds on Facebook calling for Mike Hosking to be sacked (again!)

The Left are really into ‘Freedom of Speech’ aren’t they?
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June 3, 2017 8:25am
- srylands
  
  Yes The Standard is in meltdown over Hosking.
  
  https://thestandard.org.nz/it-is-not-clever-politics-to-burn-the-planet-you-pair-of-fools/
  
  It is easy to see how totalitarian regimes staffed by people such as our very own The Standard contributors could end up with show trials and re-education camps.
  
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  June 3, 2017 8:35am
  - cmm
    
    If the Paris Treaty/whatever achieved anything then that might be something.
    
    But their goal is to reduce the temperature by some tiny amount – less than a degree – that maybe stalls things for a year or two at most.
    
    For that tiny improvement the West (and by extension everyone else – since the West is the driving force for the rest of the world) is supposed to smash itself into a cliff – destroying economies, jobs and lives.
    
    Basically it is bullshit like driving a Prius. You’re still doing 90% or more of the carbon emissions a normal vehicle does – hardly a green option that changes anything significant – and certainly nothing to get smug about.
    
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    June 3, 2017 8:45am
    - stephieboy
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Pruis ? Unlike the Commordore V8,
      
      http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/72849343/new-holden-commodore-v8s-beautiful-noise
      
      LOL !
      
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      June 3, 2017 9:04am
      - stephieboy
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        The” science “of climate change denial,
        
        ” US Climate Change Policy Is Now Based On Conspiracy Theory”
        
        From stupid tweet to official government policy: the madness of Trump’s climate change agenda
        
        “ In 2012, Donald Trump tweeted that global warming is a Chinese hoax invented to damage US manufacturing. At the time, this was just the crackpot conspiracy theory of an attention-seeking celebrity. It was stupid and laughable. Now, the attention-seeking celebrity is the most powerful man in the world and this stupid, once-laughable tweet looks increasingly like the United States government’s official position on climate change.
        
        Follow
        
        Donald J. Trump
        ✔
        @realDonaldTrump
        The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.
        8:15 AM – 7 Nov 2012
        105,268 105,268 Retweets 67,538 67,538 likes
        Twitter Ads info and privacy
        
        After capturing the presidency, Trump made comments about having an “open mind” on climate change. These comments were less blatantly ridiculous than his Chinese hoax theory but came with new conspiratorial ramblings about “horrible emails that were sent between the scientists.” Nevertheless, the media was quick to declare that Trump was “moderating” or “softening” his climate denial. Unfortunately, this narrative seems based on wishful thinking rather than an honest assessment of the situation. Just days later, Trump’s chief of staff Reince Priebus essentially confirmed that the president still believes climate change is a conspiracy. According to Priebus, Trump has an “open mind” but “his default position” on climate science is that “most of it is a bunch of bunk….”
        
        https://rantt.com/us-climate-change-policy-is-now-based-on-conspiracy-theory-867cd485c0b5
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:18am
      - holysheet
        
        listen and learn stupidboy, your commordore is a pussy compared to this.
        
        https://www.mercedes-amg.com/soundroom.php?lang=eng#s65c
        
        I want one!!!!
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:27am
      - stephieboy
        
        holyturd , another Co3 fumes sniffer and snorter ?
        http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2006/04/24/dbb545d3-a642-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/thumbnail/620×350/39b8e85c9e0ce93d3ee2771c720a5182/image1540086x.jpg
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:42am
      - holysheet
        
        Stupidboy, once again you have shown your ignorance.
        CO3, better termed CO3(2-) is an anion often seen in inorganic/organic reactions, most notably in the baking soda(NaHCO3) and vinegar reaction (acetic acid). CO3 is unstable in the form of H2(CO3), quickly degrading to water (H2O) and carbon dioxide (CO2).
        
        Better stop all your baking etc if you are concerned about Co3.
        You need to try harder.
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:54am
  - Peter
    
    Hosking – and Trump – were correct.
    
    The fact that the left are in fits of outrage makes it all the more pleasing.
    
    One wonders how the message will change now there will be no money in manufacturing warm-ongering?
    
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    June 3, 2017 12:22pm
- Inandout
  
  Oh dear, and who are Mike’s main advertisers which must now be targeted? Marx never believed in true ‘freedom of speech’.
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:17am
  - mikenmild
    
    I seem to recall regular comments here to the effect that people should boycott Mazda because they sponsored Campbell Live.
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:25am
    - Happychappy
      
      There is a few hypocrites on here also MM it was only a couple of days ago they were having a go at a English Journo that has her say on Radio NZ with some wanting her banned. But we also live in a Country that allows free speech so people are allowed to voice their opinion. By the way i have more than likely been one of those hypocrites at some time on this blog.
      
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      June 3, 2017 10:44am
    - Inandout
      
      Anyone boycotting Mazda deserves praise.
      
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      June 3, 2017 11:28am
    - srylands
      
      Yeah well they would be stupid. If I wanted to buy a Mazda I wouldn’t take John Campbell into consideration.
      
      The last time the folk at The Standard went retard on Hosking over his comments on Maori appointments to Council bodies, a lefty friend of mine went and canceled his ASB bank account because ASB advertised on the show.
      
      Just ridiculous. The best solution to all New Zealand broadcast TV is dont watch it.
      
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      June 3, 2017 12:10pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Quite right too about Campbell, and I won’t be watching the show with Latta either, as if that has no politic overtones, well that is how I view the promos anyway.
      
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      June 4, 2017 2:39am
- MCos
  
  Personally I can’t stand Mike Hoskings. I think he’s a condescending, gratuitous, little prat who looks like he stole his jeans from a homeless person sleeping in Pigeon Park.
  However.
  I don’t care what he says or writes because he’s entirely predictable.
  There’s too many people like him across the political spectrum. Never anything new to contribute.
  “Right wing politicians are always paid by Koch bros”
  “Protesters are always paid by Soros”
  You can chuck TV preachers in there too.
  (It’s amazing just how staggeringly rich some of these opinionated ‘entertainers’ are, by the way.)
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:58am
  - holysheet
    
    What about commenting on his message instead of him? You lefties are so predictable.
    Talk about shooting the messenger.
    
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    June 3, 2017 10:03am
    - MCos
      
      I did.
      In fact I commented on all his ‘messages’. I said he’s predictable. Everybody knows what he’ll say ahead of time on any political topic.
      
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      June 3, 2017 10:29am
      - starboard
        
        “who looks like he stole his jeans from a homeless person sleeping in Pigeon Park.”
        
        Fantastic !
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:23pm
  - Reid
    
    Yeah I’m the same view MC. I have no idea why people rate him. If he offered any insight into anything I’d forgive his arrogant delivery style, but since he doesn’t, I don’t.
    
    Yeah the pay is definitely out of whack with their skills. It’s because marketing fools have convinced the idiot media execs that audience is lost or gained by personality but they’re not, they’re attracted by insightful content and they’re lost by the opposite. Insightful content will buy a lot of forgiveness in the presenter’s personality, but the marketing fools have never discovered that because the content they propose for the station’s brand is 100% vapid crap because that’s what every other station delivers and they don’t want to be different and insult the audience by appearing to be too “intellectual.”
    
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    June 3, 2017 11:42am
  - Lance
    
    What sets Hoskings apart is he isn’t a far left flag waver.
    As insufferable as he is, it is at least a point of difference, such a rare thing in the MSM
    
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    June 3, 2017 12:03pm
    - Reid
      
      We could easily get a much better point of difference than him, is the point.
      
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      June 3, 2017 2:50pm
  - axeman
    
    I understand he speaks highly of you Mcock 😉
    
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    June 3, 2017 3:40pm
    - Gabby
      
      I understand Horeskin speaks highly of your mum arseman.
      
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      June 3, 2017 4:00pm
      - axeman
        
        Sure booby. However can you confirm he has a special fondness for your Ma whom he recalls was known as The Town Bike?
        
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        June 3, 2017 11:51pm
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Yes – we should all join forces and make sure that no political leader is ever applauded for keeping his election promises.
  
  We have to stamp that shit out!
  
  We can’t have people starting to expect even socialists to keep their word when they take office – the whole edifice would come tumbling down.
  
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  June 3, 2017 10:23am
cmm

Forever playing the victim card…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/93309870/he-broke-me-tearful-kathy-griffin-slams-attacks-by-donald-trump-and-his-family

Yeah right! The Trump family made effigies of your severed head.

Silly bint!
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June 3, 2017 8:31am
- Longknives
  
  Best part is her sly dig at ‘Old White Men’..
  She is making such a fool of herself- She seems to honestly believe that everybody loves her and she is going to bring down the President!
  
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  June 3, 2017 8:34am
  - Inandout
    
    She, as a Jew, is also making a fool of the US Jewish community with her despicable video. Does this dip stick not realise that the Nazis beheaded Jews? Joan Rivers must be turning in her grave considering Griffin was once a friend.
    
    http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1937/06/05/page/1/article/nazis-behead-jewish-youth-citizen-of-u-s
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:26am
- KevOB
  
  She should have been immediately arrested along with her initial publishers. If she takes the fall for the post modernist approach to elections so be it. Government requires assent and rule. Opinions can be heard but an election does not allow them to be enforceable except at the ballot box.
  
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  June 3, 2017 10:03am
  - sam green
    
    Sort of equates to the Mohammed cartoons d’ya think? So freedom of expression means …… only when you think it’s ok. Don’t get me wrong – I think Griffen was cheap and tasteless – but oh the outrage.
    
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    June 3, 2017 10:32am
    - Rich Prick
      
      I couldn’t care less about the Mohammed cartoons. It was the actual murders that followed that freedom of expression which got on my tits.
      
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      June 3, 2017 11:08am
    - Nukuleka
      
      No-one is threatening to kill her- that is the main difference, don’t you think? I don’t care what she does or says and she is fully entitled to her freedom of expression, but stop playing the cry baby victim honey.
      
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      June 3, 2017 11:11am
      - sam green
        
        I agree with that – she’s being very Hollywood. People are however threatening to kill her.
        
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        June 3, 2017 11:17am
      - KevOB
        
        There are limits on the mode, time and place of freedom of expression.
        Journos take note.
        
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        June 3, 2017 11:23am
      - MCos
        
        “No-one is threatening to kill her”
        From what I understand plenty of people have done just that.
        
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        June 3, 2017 5:10pm
    - Inandout
      
      I love that trump drops these words and there is a frenzy.
      
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      June 3, 2017 11:15am
    - Inandout
      
      Trump is a real person, there is a difference there.
      
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      June 3, 2017 1:08pm
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Yes – but to give her credit, she did make it clear that she would never want to hurt a child!
  
  Even though she was previously said she’d love to give Barron Trump a beat down.
  
  When you have people like this arsehole on your side socialists – you know you are in the wrong.
  
  But of course, we all know – It’s OK when the Left do it!
  
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  June 3, 2017 10:26am
  - sam green
    
    Well you’ve got Milo – so – evens.
    
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    June 3, 2017 11:05am
    - snowy
      
      Homophobe!
      
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      June 3, 2017 11:15am
      - sam green
        
        Is he gay? Well – there you are!
        
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        June 3, 2017 11:20am
  - lilman
    
    Laughing my arse off here,silly bitch shows the double standard of being a left leaning SJW.
    I would love to see her sued and made an example of but she ,in her eyes ,has done no wrong.
    
    This was a stunt that they planned and knew there would be outrage,but they did it anyway.
    
    Wouldnt surprise me if she doesnt get an Emmy for this.
    
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    June 3, 2017 12:46pm
- Fletch
  
  That’s what lefties do when they’re down – play the victim card.
  
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  June 3, 2017 11:33am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    The only thing Kathy Griffin is a victim of is her own stupidity.
    
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    June 3, 2017 5:20pm
    - Swifty
      
      Stupid, and them claims victim status. Pathetic.
      
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      June 3, 2017 6:01pm
redeye

8 million dollars pumped into the Northland economy from the Lions games today, or so we were told yesterday by different sections of the New Zealand media. About 16000 bloody times!
Does anyone else think it is more than just a tad tacky to be constantly harping on about how much money we’re extracting from the tourists while they’re still here?
It is only an estimate. Bit like the shop staff talking loudly about how much they plan to make from the customer that’s just walked in and started browsing.
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June 3, 2017 8:32am
Maggy Wassilieff

Leo Varadkar to become Ireland’s youngest prime minister.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40139428
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June 3, 2017 8:32am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  And Gay too . Why miss that one out ?
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:05am
  - RalphT
    
    Probably because it’s really not that important.
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:26am
    - Inandout
      
      It is important to Muslims.
      
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      June 3, 2017 9:32am
      - RalphT
        
        Fortunately there aren’t (currently) too many of those peaceful chappies in Ireland
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:57am
  - kowtow
    
    Indian doctor dad , private Protestant secondary school.
    
    Why leave that out?
    
    The really funny thing is the left wing media are spinning this as a “Ireland is so progressive” story.
    In fact Varadkar is economically right wing and if he had his way he’d shaft the lower orders , but because he’s a wee bit dusky and bats for the other side this is a “progressive” victory.
    
    How conflicted the cultural marxists must be reporting this one.
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:59am
    - SGA
      
      Just an example that one’s perspective on social issues and one’s perspective on economic issues can vary. But “yes”, both the feral left and the feral right can have trouble with that distinction.
      
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      June 3, 2017 12:53pm
    - Inandout
      
      Was he the only gay in his village?
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrlzaBNgz-M
      
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      June 3, 2017 1:12pm
  - GazzaW
    
    Maybe because it’s only you that finds it relevant stephie. He’s also the son of an Indian immigrant which might be of interest to your Housing spokesman.
    
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    June 3, 2017 10:01am
    - Jack5
      
      Hugh P., I think Gazza is talking to you.
      
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      June 3, 2017 1:31pm
    - Gabby
      
      Has he bought a house in Auckland?
      
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      June 3, 2017 4:03pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Oh, I also missed out that he was a Doctor, that he has 2 sisters, that he was a Minister of Sport,
    that he has 2 hands and 10 toes…
    I thought folks might be able to click on my link or go to Wikipedia or some such place and discover that for themselves.
    
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    June 3, 2017 10:16am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘Corse they can , but stupidboy can’t help his inner troll.
      
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      June 3, 2017 10:23am
- KevOB
  
  I’m more Irish than he is: he’s half Indian! What sort of gay is he? they seem to be varietal too as I know from my stepson’s adherence.
  From this tingling responder to Thomas Moore’s poetry best wishes to him.
  
  United Ireland Forever.
  
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  June 3, 2017 10:11am
  - kowtow
    
    United Ireland ?
    
    Not without the consent of all its inhabitants.
    
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    June 3, 2017 10:23am
Longknives

‘Political Correctness’ invades the Lions Tour!
Are New Zealand Rugby fans really going to painstakingly learn the words to that dreadfully dull Maori song and sing it to drown out the Lions Supporters?
I just can’t see that happening…Your average Rugby fan will be boozed up and yelling his lungs out at the action on the field (won’t he?)
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June 3, 2017 8:39am
- nasska
  
  It’s one thing bragging about how much of their money we can separate the Poms from but quite another to impose Stone Age songs & war dances on them.
  
  That’s cruel & unnatural!
  
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  June 3, 2017 8:47am
- Zapper
  
  We don’t do songs. It’s stupid to try and pretend we’re something we’re not. Even if there was buy in, the British fans would drown it out with 10% as many people.
  
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  June 3, 2017 8:47am
  - Longknives
    
    Yep- It’s a crazy idea.
    The songs British fans sing are usually songs they love, that have been sung by them for donkeys years that are ingrained in their Rugby Culture..
    I went to England vs Wales a few years ago in Cardiff- 50,000 singing- What an atmosphere!
    New Zealand Rugby seriously thinks they can force a dire Maori language song on their fans to compete with that?
    
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    June 3, 2017 8:57am
    - mikenmild
      
      What’s the world coming to? Obviously a terrible idea that New Zealand fans might want to sing New Zealand songs.
      
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      June 3, 2017 9:02am
      - Inandout
        
        Like ‘The Gumboot Song’?
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:34am
      - mikenmild
        
        Maybe “We Don’t Know How Lucky We Are”.
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:44am
      - GazzaW
        
        Finish the line off MnM.
        
        “We don’t know how lucky we are not to have Little as PM.”
        
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        June 3, 2017 10:06am
    - kowtow
      
      Thank God the ridiculous and extremely annoying vuvuzela fad is dead.
      
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      June 3, 2017 10:41am
    - Kimbo
      
      The songs British fans sing are usually songs they love, that have been sung by them for donkeys years that are ingrained in their Rugby Culture..
      
      Like the Negro spiritual , Swing Low, Sweet Chariot? 😉
      
      But with Guide me O, Thou Great Jehovah (“bread of heaven, bread of heaven, feed me ’til I want no more…!), and Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau/Land of my Fathers (in the original Welsh language – so why shouldn’t we sing in Maori?!) you are on the money. Not to mention Llanelli’s famous Sospan Fach/Little Saucepan (“Who beat the All Blacks, who beat the All Blacks? Good old Sospan Fach!”)
      
      However, other than the particular national anthem, singing at rugby in the Britain and Ireland was an almost entirely Welsh tradition until the 1991 Rugby World Cup, and has been imported by the English from football. But the cross-cultural class exchange is one way – no one at Old Trafford, Anfield or Highbury, much less Middlesborough, Leeds or Sunderland enjoys a boot party in the car park afterwards, with obligatory hamper of champagne, confit pigeon and foie gras, 😉
      
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      June 3, 2017 11:40am
      - GazzaW
        
        The British tradition of singing is magnificent at rugby matches. It’s just a pity that they don’t play rugby very well.
        
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        June 3, 2017 11:55am
      - Kimbo
        
        Oh yes, and in earlier times, Welsh crowds would also spontaneously sing Waltzing Matilda and Sarie Marais when the Wallabies or Springboks were playing. There was no well-known equivalent when they were hosting the All Blacks, although there were attempts to disseminate the old New Zealand rugby song On the Ball, written in 1887, but it never caught on.
        
        http://www.folksong.org.nz/ontheball/index.html
        
        Also, in pre-TV and radio days it was still common for NZ Rugby crowds to sing, at least before a game – hardly surprising as it was a form of self-generated entertainment, and it was the era before pre-match ticket sales, so people would even camp out overnight so they could get a good place on the terraces once the gates opened.
        
        Terry McLean’s Great Days in New Zealand Rugby (1959) is, IMHO his greatest work, and stands the test as an excellent example of New Zealand short stories in any subject, irrespective of whether you like rugby and sport, and deserves to be recognised as a great piece of our literature. One of the chapters is about the first test between the All Blacks and the 1930 Great Britain tourists (they weren’t known as the Lions in those days) at Carisbrook, Dunedin. McLean was probably relaying some of the events as told to him by his older brother and fellow-journalist, Gordon, although at 17, McLean may have been at that game and assisting him gather material – TP covered other matches on that tour
        
        …and in the course of the account, he provides a time capsule of rugby crowds of the era:
        
        Cold? You call this cold? Lord love you, this is nothing! You should have been here in 1930 when the All Blacks played Doug Prentice’s team. That was cold for you. Snow on the ground. A wind that just rasped through everything, even Long Toms. Never a day to get a sane man out of doors. But there we were, 27,000 of us. Nuts, absolute nut. This’ll interest you, too. The first people into the ground weren’t men. Our side of the field, some young slip of a girl from Invercargill was first through the gates. Been there since 5 o’clock and they weren’t opened till 11. And what do you know, the minute she whizzed through our gate, away on the other side of the ground, three women were first through their gate. Never saw anything like it – four women sprinting to be the first into the middle of nowhere. In that cold too. Never let it be said it’s the men are crazy.
        
        Cold! The wind was really raw. The snow came all the way down the hill onto the field. Sleet, too, and hailstones as big as duck’s eggs. We tried to sing. “Three Blind Mice”. Everybody knew that. Went on for hours. Couldn’t stop ourselves. We knew “On the Ball” too. Then some silly chump tried to start “Singin’ in the Rain”. On a day like that! Did we give him the bird!…
        
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        June 3, 2017 12:13pm
      - SGA
        
        A wind that just rasped through everything, even Long Toms.
        
        Long Toms are what I know as Long Johns, I assume. Is that variant common? I’ve never heard it before – just curious.
        
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        June 3, 2017 12:59pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Maybe – it isn’t a typo, as I double-checked what McLean wrote, as I assumed the same as you. Maybe came down to the knees, or could have been a local NZ variation in the name.
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:07pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Oh yes, and just for Longknives, and to show that NZ rugby crowds were not as parochial as they are allegedly today, this is McLean’s account of the last minute length-of-the-field try that decided that game:
        
        (Ivor) Jones was practically in George (Nepia)’s arms when he passed, so that cancelled out George. That left two, Morley and (Bert) Cooke. They had 50 yards to go. I’m telling you, they don’t play football like it, these days. Fifty yards. Have you ever screamed so much you can’t even hear yourself think? Have you ever picked your hat off and just let ‘er go and be damned to all the colds that ever infested the earth? Have you ever just gone mad? With 27,000 others all doing the same thing?
        
        If you haven’t, you haven’t lived. There they went. Fifty mortal yards. What a race! I’d die happy if I could ever see it again. The goal-line coming up and Cookie inching nearer and nearer. Almost ready to dive. And Morley zipping along. Immortal.
        
        Morley won by a yard.
        And Britain won, by 6 to 3.
        Cheering? I can hear it yet.
        
        Oh, yes, and the try was set up by the Welsh loose forward, Ivor Jones, who, in a fateful repeat as the touch judge in the Wales vs All Blacks test match at Cardiff in 1953, called out in the last minute of that game to the Welsh player, Clem Thomas “Cross kick!”…which Thomas did, and the ball bounced fortuitously into the arms of his countryman Ken Jones (Former NZ junior 44yard athletics chanpion Ron Jarden was his marker that day, and he would have scored at the other end if he had got the bounce)
        
        … and the All Blacks lost a game in which they had dominated 80% of both territory and possession. And that was the last time we have lost to them.
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:22pm
      - RF
        
        Long Tom was a WW1 303 rifle. Are we now declaring war on the visiting poms.
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:32pm
      - Kimbo
        
        …oh, yes, and while I’m at on that 1953 test match, in today’s circumstances Clem Thomas who made that cross-kick that set up the winning try would not have even been on the field. The night before, driving from his home to the Welsh hotel in Cardiff, he had killed a pedestrian. It wasn’t Thomas’ fault, but nonetheless he was understandably shaken mentally and emotionally, and considered withdrawing, but he and the Welsh team management decided otherwise. Different times!
        
        After the match, the former commander of the 2nd NZEF and later-Governor General of New Zealand, Tiny Freyberg came into the All Black dressing room. In one corner was the great All Black fullback, Bob Scott, who through no fault of his, had been wrong-footed by the bounce. Scott could take a loss, but as he was so competitive, he was in tears of frustration athow they had lost. Freyberg, spotting Scott, came up to him, and patted him on the shoulder, and said, “There, there, fellow. I’ve lost battles, and seen men under my command die. It’s only a game”.
        
        Scott, as a good obedient former-soldier who had served under Freyberg replied, “Yes sir. Thank you sir…”
        
        but under his breath he muttered, “…but you never lost to bloody Wales!”. 😉
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:38pm
      - VicParking
        
        Score Tottenham Score.
        The chance of a New Zealander watching either the Lions or the Americas cup, if you dont have Sky is nil.
        Meanwhile the politicans with their free tickets, I bet Winne is there, or the ratepayer funded sky subscription are not missing anything.
        As the saying go’s “Poor people don’t vote so screw them”
        
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        June 3, 2017 3:57pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @SGA
        
        re long tom
        Three meanings given in “The Dictionary of NZ English”
        1. A gold-washing sluice-box
        2. A long-handled shovel
        3. Garfish (Hyporhamphus ihi)
        
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        June 3, 2017 6:13pm
      - SGA
        
        “A wind that just rasped through everything, even gold-washing sluice-boxes/long-handled shovels/garfish”
        Not sure any of those really work, Maggy, but maybe T.P. McLean was strangely poetic 🙂
        
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        June 3, 2017 11:22pm
- waikatogirl
  
  The other NZ anthem, 10 Guitars as an alternative!
  ?
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:46am
  - sooty
    
    Is marverlous lizzie singing, maybe she could do the haka as well.
    
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    June 3, 2017 11:25am
- Gabby
  
  They’ll listen and clap.
  
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  June 3, 2017 4:05pm
oldpark

Paris climate change scam. We are now finding out, that a lot of our notional 14 thousand million dollars, will end up in third world dictators pockets. After all who will monitor them,to do the right thing,and save China, or India,who dont have to do any saving of the planet until circa 2030s. Until then they dont have to pay,any dollars,like we have to. All they have to do is keep belching their smoke into the atmosphere. Wonder who the **** in NZ accepted such a scam,on payment for dubious global warming.
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June 3, 2017 8:47am
- Inandout
  
  It gives China and India a huge advantage over the rest of the world, and forces US factories to close under the weight of huge disadvantages. Trump has curtailed the scam for a ‘review’.
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:37am
mikenmild

Happy World Clubfoot Day everyone!
http://globalclubfoot.com/world-clubfoot-day/
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June 3, 2017 8:58am
Hugh Pavletich

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Cool change welcome after five years of housing heat … Turi Condon … The Australian
… google search title if blocked …

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/property/cool-change-welcome-after-five-years-of-housing-heat/news-story/d784109cebea500be6192de5feebfafa

… extract …

… Values in Melbourne fell 1.7 per cent last month to a median price of $665,000. Sydney’s prices dropped 1.3 per cent to $872,300 during May, the second monthly fall for the city, according to -researcher CoreLogic. Prices in Brisbane increased 0.3 per cent for the month, Adelaide was up 0.8 per cent and Perth’s house prices¬ fell 0.4 per cent.

The market peaked in February after prices had surged by 75 per cent in Sydney since 2012 and by more than 55 per cent in Melbourne.

AMP chief economist Shane Oliver said he believed price growth in the two capitals had topped out.

“While it’s dangerous, given the volatility in monthly data and seasonal influences, to read too much into one month’s numbers, it looks like the combination of surging unit supply, bank rate hikes, tightening lending stand¬ards, reduced property investor deductions, ever tighter restrictions around foreign buyers and all the talk about a bubble bursting are driving a downturn in the Sydney and Melbourne property cycles,” Dr Oliver said. … read more via hyperlink above …

… Auckland housing bubble bursts …

The number of homes available for sale in Auckland up 51% on last year. Stock also up in Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Wellington and Canterbury | interest.co.nz

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/88080/number-homes-available-sale-auckland-51-last-year-stock-also-waikato-bay-plenty

Lower house prices and static mortgage rates improved housing affordability substantially in many parts of the country in April … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/87977/lower-house-prices-and-static-mortgage-rates-improved-housing-affordability

… Follow-up comment on MacroBusiness Au thread … below this one

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/06/weekend-reading-3-4-june-2017/#comment-2881876

Nicola … back mid-March Fairfax NZ reported on earlier New Zealand Labour Party polling September 2016, which found a strong public aversion to bubble pricing for housing. … read more via hyperlink above …
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June 3, 2017 8:59am
- Happychappy
  
  There has been a lot of water flowing under the bridge since that poll was taken Hugh so catch up and stop grand standing for Phil Twyford and Labour. To do a backflip on Immigration will be fatal for Labour and how are they going to build without Tradesmen.
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:25am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    Christchurch Central … The Bureaucrats Playpen … driving people and businesses elsewhere … what’s new ? …
    
    Call for parking action in central Christchurch | Stuff.co.nz
    
    http://i.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/93134216/call-for-parking-action-in-central-christchurch
    
    Central Christchurch businesses want action to ensure high parking charges do not deter shoppers.
    
    With post-earthquake free parking disappearing in the rebuild, motorists are facing fees of up to $5 an hour. … read ore via hyperlink above …
    
    Sadly … the business guys just don’t stand up for themselves … as I explained April 2014 …
    
    Christchurch Failure – The Long History | Hugh Pavletich | Scoop News
    
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1404/S00200/christchurch-failure-the-long-history-hugh-pavletich.htm
    
    … so not surprisingly, the unaccountable bureaucrats just walk all ver them.
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:53am
    - Hugh Pavletich
      
      On ‘matters Christchurch’ first … I forgot to mention the important MBIE research released November dealing with compound employment growth these past 10 years.
      
      The national average was 1.4% per annum … with Christchurch a truly woeful quarter that … Waimak a whopping four times and Selwyn up in the stratosphere at an astonishing seven times !
      
      In essence … people and businesses fleeing idiot politicians and bureaucrats.
      
      Why has The Press failed to report this ?
      
      Kev … with all due respects please compare the comparative performances of Texas and California within the Demographia Surveys .
      
      And too … according to recent IATA figures for the Asia Pacific region, air travel costs in real terms dropped about 10% last year with passenger numbers up a whopping 9%.
      
      Cruise ship rates per day have plummeted over recent years in this part of the world … with huge growth in passenger numbers.
      
      Markets have a remarkable capacity to meet demand … if governments don’t bugger up supply … as is the case with housing.
      
      Our consent / build rates are truly lousy.
      
      Isn’t it remarkable how our totally unnecessary housing bubbles are bursting on the 70th anniversary of Levittown.
      
      Why haven’t the political and bureaucratic bozos learnt a thing ? …
      
      Levittown history in photos | Newsday
      … google search title if blocked …
      
      http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/levittown-history-in-photos-1.13458781#1
      
      In 1947, William Levitt of Levitt & Sons began building mass-produced, affordable housing for veterans returning from WWII. Island Trees, or Levittown as it later became known, is widely recognized as the first modern American suburb. Families started moving into the new homes on Oct. 1, 1947.
      
      The area that would become Levittown was formerly a series of potato fields on the Hempstead Plains that were affected by the Golden Nematode, an insect from Europe that destroyed much of the crops at the time. Levitt bought the land for a reduced price and eventually built more than 17,700 homes on the land by utilizing elements borrowed from Henry Ford’s assembly line process. The homes, which sold for just $7,990, included appliances and an expandable attic.
      
      Return to Levittown: a suburban dream turns 60 – BBC News
      
      http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-15598511
      
      Levittown Classic Movies Presents: Our Home Town … Youtube
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4nKlMsyQ0
      
      William Levitt – Wikipedia
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Levitt
      
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      June 3, 2017 11:31am
      - stigie
        
        Fuck Hugh !
        
        10 2
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        June 3, 2017 12:06pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Debt-to-income ratio limits might not have ‘terribly big effects’ on first home buyer sector, the RBNZ’s macro-stability head tells interest.co.nz; But it depends on how tool is calibrated; Cost-benefit analysis ‘not easy’ | interest.co.nz
        
        https://www.interest.co.nz/property/88073/debt-income-ratio-limits-might-not-have-terribly-big-effects-first-home-buyer-sector
        
        Shamubeel Eaqub says the reality is that we are soft on white-collar crime and we aren’t good at regularly updating our rules and regulations | interest.co.nz
        
        https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/87999/shamubeel-eaqub-says-reality-we-are-soft-white-collar-crime-and-we-aren%E2%80%99t-good
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:02pm
  - KevOB
    
    I’m not detecting Hugh as a Twyford apologist.
    
    He’s backgrounding what I’ve been warning about for ages. Prices are related to money supply and velocity and the world’s central banks have had a pig-in at expansionary money creation. That has gone into opportunities for the already rich to increase their wealth and inflate asset values globally. Most NZedders do not look at overseas economic indicators. Indeed most journos cant understand them and only panic makes news. Increasing indices have feel-good attached. A new high however may be signalling that the price is out of kilter relative to value.
    
    If the quantity of money doubled overnight the prices would double too otherwise some would be disadvantaged and people are quick to sense that. Money supply is not that fickle but it has been steadily moving along asset prices. The values may remain unchanged. I have an empirical proof that companies of the same size with the same earnings have equal values. Their prices all move proportionately with changes in money supply. The same logically applies over other asset classes.
    
    My evidence is that there is a measurable value in investment grade securities and these are always fully priced. A reduction in future income will reduce that value immediately but that remains independent of price. Earnings drives value: liquidity (ability to buy), drives price.
    This is likely to apply to housing too. The extra high temporary demand from unexpected migration increases can be met from offshore liquidity being made available here.
    No NZ government could have managed the very rapid housing demand increase. That takes years of preparation and we will struggle accordingly to meet needs.
    
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    June 3, 2017 10:57am
    - VicParking
      
      But it works if the left do it
      
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      June 3, 2017 4:00pm
sooty

Fancy some idiot thinking that it would be a good idea to put cigerates into the chemist shop. What are you going to do,
Put bars up in the shop, granny would love that,
The crim might as well clean all the good drugs at the same time as it won’t mater in the sentencing.
The late night chemist is more likely to be hit than the one in the centre of the mall.
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June 3, 2017 9:06am
- nasska
  
  It won’t be the chemist but we’re definitely on course to having R18 shops that will sell, alcohol, marijuana & tobacco products.
  
  My guess is that they’ll be situated in industrial areas, highly guarded & secure like something from a Mad Max film. Compulsory ID & every purchase logged against the customer’s name with the records held by government.
  
  By then Nanny State will be 99% complete.
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:14am
  - starboard
    
    I’m not a smoker. Smokers disgust me however it’s their choice to smoke. Leave the ciggies where they are. How about turning attention to the filthy scum lowlifes, usually maori or pacific islanders ( watch the cctv images) who are violently robbing the businesses. Now, instead of giving them the namby pamby telling off, it needs to be 10 years jail and no parole for your first offence. Then, and only then will you see a mass reduction in violent store robberies.
    
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    June 3, 2017 1:40pm
- MCos
  
  Sell them at the police station
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:33am
- KevOB
  
  It takes academic brilliance and otherwordlyness to turn pharmacies into tobbaconists.
  
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  June 3, 2017 11:07am
- GazzaW
  
  Just what you want in a pharmacy is a queue of coughing, vile-smelling smokers waiting to get their daily fix. First you have to run the gauntlet of smokers hanging around outside exuding smoke and dropping their butts everywhere.
  
  I’m not too sympathetic towards the dairy owners. There’s a lot of hype that’s been whipped up and politicised by Labour MP wannabe Sonny Kaushal – my local dairy doesn’t sell tobacco and they seem to be doing alright. Don’t sell cigarettes if you don’t want to be robbed. Simple.
  
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  June 3, 2017 12:21pm
EAD

THANK YOU STEPHIEBOY!

So reads a message I received from the President of the Adeliade Institiute for driving a 230% spike in new URL visits (296) yesterday. 92% of which were from NZ!

Thanks again Stephie for highlighting our organisation and the free publicity for the work we do.

Regards,
EAD
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June 3, 2017 9:09am
- mikenmild
  
  Ah, I love the smell of fruitcake Holocaust denial in the morning…
  Did you catch Timothy Spall’s performance as David Irving in Denial?
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:18am
- stephieboy
  
  EAD, you think Donald is going to do a tweet about this useless and inconsequential piece of information ?
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:20am
  - EAD
    
    Haha Stephieboy,
    
    you’re easily trolled (along with German National Socialists aka “Nazis”, the biggest threat to “our democracy”) on a Saturday morning ?
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:41am
    - stephieboy
      
      EAD , how is your version of the NSDAP shaping up ?
      
      4 20
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      June 3, 2017 9:52am
      - mikenmild
        
        This is EAD at work:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9yGi5fOt6Q
        
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        June 3, 2017 10:03am
Manolo

Hungary vs left-wing Soros:
]http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_EUROPE_SOROS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-06-02-06-06-37

Hungary’s prime minister said Friday that harsh criticism by billionaire George Soros is a “declaration of war.” Soros has accused Prime Minister Viktor Orban of running a corrupt “mafia state.”
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June 3, 2017 9:10am
- mikenmild
  
  Whatever you might think of Soros, Hungary is a corrupt Mafia state.
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:20am
  - emmess
    
    Yeah, because it is in the EU.
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:37am
- 4077th
  
  That is indeed the pot calling the kettle black.
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:45am
Manolo

Crooked Hillary plumbs new depths:
http://nypost.com/2017/06/01/hillary-clintons-excuses-tour-hits-a-new-low/

At a conference in California on Wednesday, she insisted her email mess was “the biggest nothing-burger ever” and explained that she gave those toadying Goldman Sachs speeches because, well, “They paid me.”
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June 3, 2017 9:12am
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo , when will they ” lock her up ” ?
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:21am
  - Kea
    
    stupidboy, good question. She needs to go to Obama’s torture / concentration camp down in Gitmo for a visit, before facing trial. The truth needs to come out for national and global security reasons.
    
    Trump has always had a soft spot for the crooked old hag and supported her for years. He needs to take action and harden up.
    
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    June 3, 2017 12:12pm
    - sam green
      
      Oh come on Kea – Guantanamo was set up by the good old boy George W. You know that. #waronterror
      
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp
      
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      June 3, 2017 6:07pm
Happychappy

Hugh: Labours Housing Policy is coming unstuck also because Labour will have to swallow a dead rat to implement it. Read Loyd Burr and the things Andrew Little will have to backflip on to get Kiwi Build started.
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June 3, 2017 9:18am
BananaLlama

Is Theresa May the most incompetent politician on the planet? Can’t believe she is squandering such a massive lead. To think there are people like Borris who would have lead the Tories to a comfortable victory after Brexit yet the Conservatards lump everyone with her instead. They deserve to lose.
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June 3, 2017 9:51am
- VicParking
  
  what worries me is that their are parallels here with Bill and Andy. NZ could go the same way.
  
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  June 3, 2017 4:07pm
Gruffydd

TDS?
yip
We have many who worship the ground he walks on .
Wingnut projection.
Trumkins attempt to project their derangement on the rest of us.
They can not see the stubidty in the Orangutans actions due to blind Love of a failed real estate developer and reality tv star.
DPF nailed it when he pointed out no evidence will penetrate the TDS …..
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June 3, 2017 9:53am
- DifferentPerspective
  
  Personally, I feel sorry for you.
  
  You’ve now ‘outed’ yourself as being in the same camp as:
  – WoO
  – SB
  – MM
  
  While the rest of us are giving rational, reasonably well constructed reasons for our support – the best you can do is emulate 5 year olds in the playground and name-call.
  
  I know you’d love to appropriate TDS – but a ranty post like yours fits the TDS symptoms far better.
  
  But thanks for trying, I’m sure we’re all uniquely enriched by your special efforts.
  
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  June 3, 2017 10:34am
- Reid
  
  I’m calling Gruffy as stephie.
  
  Look at the punctuation on the third line. Who else does that?
  
  Look at the spelling and punctuation:
  “They can not see the stubidty in the Orangutans actions due to blind Love of a failed real estate developer and reality tv star.”
  
  Who gets mixed up between the “p” and the “b” on the keyboard?
  
  Who punctuates a word with the first letter to emphasize it when other, normal people capitalise the whole thing?
  
  Gruffydd
  
  Who else would chose such a stupid pathetic pseud when you’ve got the entire universe of cool words to chose from?
  
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  June 3, 2017 12:05pm
  - Kea
    
    Reid, note it uses the term “wingnut” ?
    
    We know a certain Dooms Day Prepper who uses that term to describe rational people who do not subscribe to his cult.
    
    Hi Griff 🙂
    
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    June 3, 2017 12:08pm
    - Reid
      
      We’ll see Kea.
      
      stephie’s probably almost smart enough to have heard of wingnut before and he’s probably been taking lessons from his mentor mm.
      
      Between the two of them and no doubt after hours of polishing they are almost clever enough to have come up with Gruffy’s “masterpiece” above.
      
      I know it’s a stretch on the intellect front but who knows, there maybe a third person – the mastermind, who’s giving them both a hand, out of sympathy.
      
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      June 3, 2017 12:14pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Gurffyd is griff.
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:00pm
      - Kea
        
        “stephie’s probably almost smart enough to have heard of wingnut before”
        
        True, it can repeat basic phrases and words, though it can’t understand them.
        
        Just as Griff looks at “science” and can’t understand a word of it, so he approaches it as a religious doctrine of faith.
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:06pm
      - Jack5
        
        Yes Gurffyd is Griff. He’s already admitted it and given an explanation for the change of pseudonym.
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:39pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        admitted it ?
        Jesus I practically told you on my first post and have disclosed my identity many times since.
        Referring to my self in the third person Griff was so blatant I thought even the intellectually challenged would get it
        
        Unlike the loony tune trolls I don’t do sock puppets or try to circumvent my discipline record.
        eh Kriss X….
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:50pm
      - Kea
        
        Jack5 what was the loons excuse for it creating another account ?
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:54pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Hey Griff/Gruffydd,
        
        …if the tone fallacy is an illegitimate attempt to dismiss the substance of another’s argument, what is the name of the ploy when someone deliberately and preemptively (justified adverbs!) spikes their own argument with invective, so that when that argument is called out by others, one can then play the “tone fallacy” card…no matter what the response? 😉
        
        At the very least, I’d suggest that as meritorious as the concept of “tone fallacy” is (and I’ve cited you as the source on the occasions I’ve used it, so I thank you)
        
        …do you think that as it seems you are equipped with only that hammer, every challenge to your opinions looks like a nail?
        
        Might I recommend widening your repertoire and concentrating on…unnecessary and excessive adverbs, as revealed by…Kimbo’s law.
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:58pm
      - Kea
        
        Griff, have you changed your ID on all those climate sites you make a fool of yourself on ?
        
        I don’t normally read them, as I stick to the science, but others have linked to them to demonstrate how fanatical you are. You actually get off lightly on KB compared to the epic pasting you get on other sites.
        
        Put a jersey on freak, its unseasonally chilly out 🙂
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:58pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        Kimbo we have some who frequently attack the integrity of respectable scientists and institutions with utter nonsense that is not only wrong its often so illogical as to be an offense to rational thought .
        If you point out these wackos are gibbering fuckwicks apparently that is bullying .
        I just call it the demonstrable truth .
        Back to the self awareness.
        What they and their sources are doing to the reputation of those scientist , institutions and science in general is far more bullying than calling them cranks and their sources fringe whacks .
        Poor wee dears have no self awareness as to what pieces of shits they are.
        
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        June 3, 2017 2:17pm
      - Kea
        
        “respectable scientists and institutions ”
        
        Argument from authority fallacy : http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
        
        I even used one of your favourite sources. So much fail Griffy 😆
        
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        June 3, 2017 2:25pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Kimbo we have some who frequently attack the integrity of respectable scientists and institutions…
        
        Yes…
        
        with utter nonsense that is not only wrong its often so illogical as to be an offense to rational thought .
        
        But in the absence of showing where the logic – and the empirical evidence on which the logical inferences are drawn – is false, that would be a matter of opinion, not fact. Or at least that is what the debate is seeking to establish. Hence…
        
        If you point out these wackos are gibbering fuckwicks apparently that is bullying .
        I just call it the demonstrable truth .
        
        So, by your own admission, you don’t refute their opinion in detail and/or substance, but rather your gambit is to call them out in insulting terms for every attempt to challenge orthodoxy and the scholarly consensus in the Scientific community. OK…so like I asked,
        
        if the tone fallacy is an illegitimate attempt to dismiss the substance of another’s argument, what is the name of the ploy when someone deliberately and preemptively (justified adverbs!) spikes their own argument with invective, so that when that argument is called out by others, one can then play the “tone fallacy” card…no matter what the response?
        
        Back to the self awareness.
        
        Yes…
        
        What they and their sources are doing to the reputation of those scientist , institutions and science in general is far more bullying than calling them cranks and their sources fringe whacks .
        
        I agree that accusations of participating in a plot theory are usually an illegitimate attack on someone’s integrity. Nonetheless, it is dangerous if a consensus is not open to challenge. And so far, “the consensus is not open to challenge” seems the substance of your argument. So as per my question yesterday to Maggy, and as per Popper’s principle of falsifiability, what do you think are pre-agreed tests/”black swans”, which, if produced would falsify the current consensus concerning AGW?
        
        Poor wee dears have no self awareness as to what pieces of shits they are.
        
        Uh, huh. So like I suggested, spiking your argument with invective, so you can play the “tone fallacy” card, no matter what the response…
        
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        June 3, 2017 2:30pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        For what its worth squawk your bullshit is just like the rest of the crap you screech.
        
        An argument from authority refers to two kinds of logical arguments:
        
        A logically valid argument from authority grounds a claim in the beliefs of one or more authoritative source(s), whose opinions are likely to be true on the relevant issue. Notably, this is a Bayesian statement — it is likely to be true, rather than necessarily true. As such, an argument from authority can only strongly suggest what is true — not prove it.
        A logically fallacious argument from authority grounds a claim in the beliefs of a source that is not authoritative. Sources could be non-authoritative because of their personal bias, their disagreement with consensus on the issue, their non-expertise in the relevant issue, or a number of other issues. (Often, this is called an appeal to authority, rather than argument from authority.)
        
        So an appeal to say the American academy of science is a valid argument especially if that appeal also includes every other significant scientific body on the planet.
        
        Don’t try to do logic Kea its well beyond your limited grasp on reality.
        
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        June 3, 2017 2:37pm
      - Kimbo
        
        So an appeal to say the American academy of science is a valid argument especially if that appeal also includes every other significant scientific body on the planet
        
        Indeed, iris logical, , is, and it lends weight to your argument. Nonetheless, in and of itself, no appeal to an authority, no matter how-well recognised and established proves an argument, nor even a particular point or alleged fact. All authorities should be subject to reasonable questioning and examination.
        
        So what are your specific criteria for doing that to the current scholarly consensus and authorities?
        
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        June 3, 2017 2:43pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        One black swan?
        Consilience of evidence kimbo
        To over turn our understanding of climate science would take a major rewrite of our understanding of the physical laws that govern our universe.
        Discovering invisible purple unicorns or some such could do it .
        Thats why proof in science is a logic error .
        Probability for a scientific theory being correct can get close to but will never reach 100%. There is always potential for the unknown.
        Climate change is a problem of risk.
        In the words of Nordhaus the potential risk is infinite for us as a species
        http://www.econ.yale.edu/~nordhaus/homepage/documents/WDN_TailEvents_REEP_2011.pdf
        You gonna bet the future of civilization on an unknown?
        
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        June 3, 2017 3:24pm
      - Kimbo
        
        To over turn our understanding of climate science would take a major rewrite of our understanding of the physical laws that govern our universe.
        
        Indeed. So instead of outlining your tests for falsifiability, in effect you dismiss it as impossible. OK, so rather than being “logical” and “scientific” as you claim, when it gets right down to it your belief is ideological/quasi-religious.
        
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        June 3, 2017 3:30pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        Sorry kimbo I did not say it was impossible .
        I said it was was extremely unlikely .
        
        Discovering invisible purple unicorns or some such could do it .
        
        The laws of thermodynamics.
        Quantum theory.
        The physics of black body radiation
        Would need to over turned.
        I don’t doubt we will refine such theory.
        But I do strongly doubt we will overturn them.
        like Newtonian physics is no longer the limit of understanding but it suffices to engineer jets.
        
        There is uncertainty as to how much and over what time frame .
        Unfortunately some use this uncertainty to down play the risk.
        But to place context the uncertainty monster has a big fat tail with a spike on the end .
        
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        June 3, 2017 5:07pm
      - Kimbo
        
        The laws of thermodynamics.
        Quantum theory.
        The physics of black body radiation
        Would need to over turned.
        I don’t doubt we will refine such theory.
        But I do strongly doubt we will overturn them.
        like Newtonian physics is no longer the limit of understanding but it suffices to engineer jets.
        
        And you overlook that I asked for “specific criteria”. Those things are…general principles, so not “criteria”, and so general in fact, APG and Climate change deniers appeal to them too. So you have used the logical fallacy of…over-generalisation.
        
        Back to the issue at hand: Unless you can specify a “black swan”, i.e., some piece or collection of data which, if it was produced (nb: only if), would falsify your belief, then irrespective of whether the scientific consensus to which you appeal is right, your personal views on the matter are primarily dogmatic and quasi-religious, not, as you assert, built on the scientific facts, nor rational and logical thought processes.
        
        Check out Karl Popper:
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability
        
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        June 3, 2017 6:03pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        Read this and the supporting papers and get back to me kimbo
        http://history.aip.org/climate/timeline.htm
        I don’t think you understand how firmly the science of climate change is based on our basic understanding of the physical world .
        For insistence
        Quantum physics dictates how a molecule bombarded with radiation behaves and at what frequency it emits . Thermo dynamics the conservation of energy explains why the stratosphere is presently cooling while the surface is warming .
        The theory of black body radiation lead to to the knowledge that this planet is warmer than it would be if there was no atmosphere. The green house effect .
        
        To overturn the theory of climate change you have to find an alternate reasons for the changes we are measuring in surface and atmospheric temperature, ocean heat content, the bio sphere, the cryosphere that behave just as we would expect from the laws of the physics behind the greenhouse effect.
        
        An invisible purple unicorn .
        It needs something we are unaware of despite the amount of effort we have undertaken to understand this problem to overturn the theory. We would need to rewrite much of what we know about physics.
        
        One black swan though interesting would not be enough due to the amount of evidence we have.
        The Consilience of evidence is overwhelming …You would need to find many different species of black swan to explain the many different pieces of evidence in many different fields.
        
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        June 3, 2017 6:52pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Read this and the supporting papers and get back to me kimbo
        http://history.aip.org/climate/timeline.htm
        I don’t think you understand how firmly the science of climate change is based on our basic understanding of the physical world .
        For insistence…
        
        No, Griff/Gurffyd, you don’t understand what is being requested of you. It is not about how strong the case is, but what is the pre-agreed specific test, which, if was fulfilled, you would agree the theory in which you believe has been falsified. For example:
        
        One black swan though interesting would not be enough…
        
        …shows you misunderstand the example and analogy. That’s precisely what a black swan does – it something that, you acknowledge, if was discovered, it would falsify the theory. Hence, an appeal such as
        
        The Consilience of evidence is overwhelming
        
        …does not address, indeed avoids the mental hygiene issue of, “could this be wrong, and how would I know, instead of being remaining emotionally and dogmatically invested in my existing views?”
        
        Which was Popper’s point. Unless you can conceivably falsify your theory by some data – that at this stage does not exist, and may indeed never exist or be produced…then your belief does not rest on empirical science and logic, but…faith.
        
        Hence your readiness to revert to sweeping statements, claims of apocalyptic doom if we don’t follow your prescription, invective against those with whom you disagree including questioning their motives, avoidance of challenges (e.g., willful misdirection of the meaning of the “black swan” test, nor did you get back to me about my question about using invective as a pre-emptive strike so you can use the “tone fallacy” argument if anyone objects)
        
        …smacks of religion. Whether APG is real or not, I know (quasi-)religious believers and their thought-processes and rhetoric when I encounter it.
        
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        June 3, 2017 7:08pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        You would need to discover a force or effect totally unknown to physics that causes the effects of green house gasses in the atmosphere .This discovery would also have to change our basic understanding of quantum mechanics. It would also be required to explain the physical changes we have measured past and present that support the theory.
        Stratospheric cooling while the troposphere is warming dictates this is active within our atmosphere not cosmic.
        
        A purple unicorn or something totally unknown and unexpected.
        
        The argument you are making is like the creationist who think there is one proof to overturn evolution. Evolution is so wrapped up in biology you would need to re write both. AGW is so supported by physics you would need to re write both.
        
        You could also call on god .
        I am an atheist.
        
        While the phrase “scientific proof” is often used in the popular media,[13] many scientists have argued that there is really no such thing. For example, Karl Popper once wrote that “In the empirical sciences, which alone can furnish us with information about the world we live in, proofs do not occur, if we mean by ‘proof’ an argument which establishes once and for ever the truth of a theory,”.
        
        You may have seen from me recently .
        “There is no absolute proof there is only probability”
        Calling for a total unknown changing our understanding so much is a vanishingly small probability.
        
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        June 3, 2017 8:19pm
      - Kimbo
        
        You would need to discover a force or effect totally unknown to physics that causes the effects of green house gasses in the atmosphere…
        
        OK, getting closer, although still not…specific. For example, to falsify Newtons theory of gravity, you would need to observe an object of sufficient mass, which, unaffected by any other force (e.g., the laws of aerodynamics in the case of an aircraft, or thermodynamics in the case of a hot-air balloon, when, in otherwise sufficient proximity to earth…does not fall to the ground. There! That is a black swan!
        
        The argument you are making is like the creationist who think there is one proof to overturn evolution.
        
        No, that is not my – or more exactly Popper’s point. You may, in fact are likley correct that APG and/or Climatye change exist. And the “black swan” to falisfy the theory may not, indeed, if it is a sound theory that corresponds to known data, almost certainly does not exist. Nonetheless you have not factored it into your potential possibilities, as a specific check on your own thought processes.
        
        And my point is that…as you have not, hence the poor rhetorical choices you use to argue what you believe. Because you are arguing like a dogmatist, who cannot conceive that someone with an opposite opinion, your claims and dissembling to the contrary notwithstanding, could possibly be right. And it is that same dogmatism that also means you’ve, yet again, avoided the question I asked right at the beginning of this thread about your appeal to and use of the “tone fallacy”.
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:06pm
      - Kimbo
        
        The argument you are making is like the creationist who think there is one proof to overturn evolution. Evolution is so wrapped up in biology you would need to re write both.
        
        Um, how about this for a potential “black swan” (and bear in mind, in the case all theories, any black swan is potential) to falsify evolution: the fossil remains of a homo sapien, found alongside what we know know are the simplest and earliest life form in rock strata that is the oldest in which life forms appear.
        
        Yet again, I stress, I don’t think such a thing will be found, because it does not exist. Nonetheless, it is a genuine “falsification” test which, if discovered, means (as you have suggested) the entire theory will have to be reassessed. And as that remains a potential “black swan”, evolution is, according to Popper, a genuine scientific theory.
        
        So, yet again, what is the specific black swan that takes climate change out of the realm of pseudo-science?
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:30pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        No its not its a purple unicorn .
        One object would not disprove “newtons theory” it would just leave you searching for why .
        
        I gave the criteria you just find it too specific.
        
        Newtons law is wrong anyway its just a good approximation.
        https://www.quora.com/Is-Newtons-Law-of-Universal-Gravitation-flat-out-wrong-or-is-it-a-limiting-case-of-General-Relativity
        
        You are arguing science using the output of one philosopher.
        http://www.jamiecondliffe.co.uk/example-essays/poppers-demarcation-and-its-usefulness
        like arguing Christianity from the view of one theologian.
        
        Yes I am sure we can make up imaginary things that would disprove AGW .
        
        The planet cooling rapidly over the next thirty years with no known explanation.
        
        There would be data that could falsify physics.
        The problem is .
        You require a new force as outlined above with the resulting impact on our understanding of the universe.The probability of such a discovery happening is approaching zero.
        
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        June 3, 2017 10:44pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        Popper is a philosopher the subject is philosophy not science.
        You prove popper is correct .
        http://www.jamiecondliffe.co.uk/example-essays/poppers-demarcation-and-its-usefulness
        
        AGW
        The earth warms as we add more greenhouse gases to the atmosphere
        If we found the earth did not warm as we added greenhouse gasses to the atmosphere it would bring doubt on the theory .
        
        Your philosophy is wrong as it misses the point.
        Science does not do certainty.
        You are seeking for proof in a question of probability.
        
        I have repeatedly said the probability is high
        But not 100% certain.
        That less than 100% allows for a black swan to overturn our understanding.
        
        Faith is an either or proposition .
        Science is a range of probability .
        
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        June 4, 2017 8:16am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Milky is right. Gruffydd is Griff. He gave himself away yesterday.
    
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    June 3, 2017 1:12pm
- EAD
  
  TDS = The Daily Stormer?
  
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  June 3, 2017 12:47pm
  - dad4justice
    
    TDS = The Daily Stoner.
    
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    June 3, 2017 1:14pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Stephieboy has just written
anyone is allowed an opinion
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/06/general_debate_3_june_2017.html#comment-1942311

Gosh, I’m so relieved.

However, I’m still not sure whether he thinks I am allowed to post my opinions here without them first being vetted by Reid (or some other male).
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/06/general_debate_2_june_2017.html#comment-1941840
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June 3, 2017 10:00am
- mikenmild
  
  I’m thinking that snowflake Maggy is developing a case of stephieboy Derangement Syndrome.
  
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  June 3, 2017 10:11am
  - BananaLlama
    
    Stay mad Mikey.
    
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    June 3, 2017 10:15am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And I’m beginning to think that there are some very creepy stalkers out there in blogland.
    
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    June 3, 2017 10:18am
    - mikenmild
      
      Well, I am wondering why you are stalking stephieboy.
      
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      June 3, 2017 10:37am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I’m not stalking stephieboy…
        I’m politely responding to the comments and slurs attached to my posts.
        
        If you have medical evidence that I am suffering from some psychological derangement, feel free to post the evidence here.
        I’m happy to provide you with permission to check my medical records.
        
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        June 3, 2017 11:13am
      - mikenmild
        
        http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Persecution_complex
        
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        June 3, 2017 11:16am
      - Gruffydd
        
        Yip mikey self awareness is central to the question.
        The rational goes like this .
        When others do it its stalking .
        When I do it it’s debate.
        Even though those examples on here, with out the self awareness. are not debating just quibbling about dribble in an effort to attack their victim.
        
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        June 3, 2017 11:40am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        https://www.netsafe.org.nz/cyberbullyingandonlineharassment/
        
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        June 3, 2017 11:41am
      - Gruffydd
        
        The tone argument (also tone policing) is a logical fallacy that occurs when an argument is dismissed or accepted on its presentation: typically perceived crassness, hysteria or anger. Tone arguments are generally used by tone trolls (esp. concern trolls) in order to derail or silence opponents lower on the privilege ladder, as a method of positioning oneself as a Very Serious Person.
        
        The fallacy relies on style over substance. It is an ad hominem attack, and thus an informal fallacy.
        
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        June 3, 2017 11:44am
      - VicParking
        
        Maggy: already found your records thanks
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoaffective_disorder
        
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        June 3, 2017 4:10pm
- holysheet
  
  Ah for the good old days Maggy, when men were men and women knew their place.
  
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  June 3, 2017 10:21am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I remember them well
    https://cs23.babysfera.ru/e/6/6/3/23015001.134796276.jpeg
    
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    June 3, 2017 10:26am
    - holysheet
      
      more like this me thinks
      
      https://pics.me.me/s-the-best-things-about-the-good-old-days-was-6392619.png
      
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      June 3, 2017 11:54am
    - waikatogirl
      
      Maggy,
      If it has tyres or testicles it’s going to give you trouble! ?
      
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      June 3, 2017 11:57am
      - Brigitte
        
        If it has a (spare) type AND testicles then it will be even worse.
        
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        June 3, 2017 12:08pm
Kea

This selfish women ran off from her relationship depriving 4 kids of their father. She got a free house, money, and education for herself. And still plays the victim.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/92493924/under-the-line-a-mothers-struggle-to-put-food-on-the-table
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June 3, 2017 12:39pm
- waikatogirl
  
  Kea, I hope you aren’t lumping Maggy in with the likes of your example ‘Marie from Nelson’.
  Anyone can tell our Maggy has class, brains and a great sense of humour. She runs rings around many a male, some of whom can’t handle the female competition! ?
  
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  June 3, 2017 12:47pm
  - Kea
    
    No I am not lumping anyone in with that manipulative woman in the article.
    
    I am sick of hearing women who run off from marriages, to play party girl, claiming they are victims of “abuse” in order to avoid responsibility for their actions.
    
    Maggy is not just smart but has intellectual honestly and would not do that. Marie is playing on peoples emotions and cliches about “abuse”
    
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    June 3, 2017 12:51pm
    - waikatogirl
      
      I agree with you Kea, too easy to abuse the taxpayer safety net by some.
      
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      June 3, 2017 1:36pm
      - Kea
        
        waikatogirl, if we could reduce the abuses then we could afford to be more generous towards those genuine cases faced with unexpected circumstances, or real domestic violence.
        
        If there is DV then the focus should be on stopping the violence, not wrecking the family. Many women love their abusive husbands but just want the aggro to stop. They are often afraid to speak out as they will be made to feel foolish if they don’t leave. So they shut up and take it.
        
        The women who started the womens refuge movement (overseas) used to take that approach. She would evaluate the woman too and often find she was as abusive, or more so, than the man. So the approach she took was to fix the family.
        
        Eventually the feminist dykes took over and she was faced with death threats against her and her kids for that approach.
        
        Meet the wonderful Erin Pizzey
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lxoStFBrjo
        
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        June 3, 2017 1:48pm
- Gabby
  
  Bloody selfish not to just put up with the beatings. She could’ve just taken it out on the kids eh cac.
  
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  June 3, 2017 4:18pm
Reid

The unsayable in Britain’s general election campaign is this. The causes of the Manchester atrocity, in which 22 mostly young people were murdered by a jihadist, are being suppressed to protect the secrets of British foreign policy.

The alleged suicide bomber, Salman Abedi, was part of an extremist group, the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, that thrived in Manchester and was cultivated and used by MI5 for more than 20 years.

The “smoking gun” is that when Theresa May was Home Secretary, LIFG jihadists were allowed to travel unhindered across Europe and encouraged to engage in “battle”: first to remove Mu’ammar Gadaffi in Libya, then to join al-Qaida affiliated groups in Syria.

Last year, the FBI reportedly placed Abedi on a “terrorist watch list” and warned MI5 that his group was looking for a “political target” in Britain. Why wasn’t he apprehended and the network around him prevented from planning and executing the atrocity on 22 May?

These questions arise because of an FBI leak that demolished the “lone wolf” spin in the wake of the 22 May attack – thus, the panicky, uncharacteristic outrage directed at Washington from London and Donald Trump’s apology.

The Manchester atrocity lifts the rock of British foreign policy to reveal its Faustian alliance with extreme Islam, especially the sect known as Wahhabism or Salafism, whose principal custodian and banker is the oil kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Britain’s biggest weapons customer.”

and

British Intelligence Received Prior Warnings that Manchester Bomber Was Plotting Attacks

What did the UK government know?
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June 3, 2017 12:51pm
- Kea
  
  Here is why Manchester happened.
  
  1. The UK is all over he globe bombing, invading and killing Muslim countries that have never attacked the UK. They are doing it because Israel dislikes those countries and it is 100% a religious war.
  
  2. At the same time as they attack the Muslim world, to please Israel, they throw the door open to immigrants due to marxist white guilt.
  
  Solutions:
  
  a. Stop fighting other peoples wars.
  
  b. Keep out of Muslim countries.
  
  c. Keep Muslims out of the UK if they are not willing to respect UK culture and norms.
  
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  June 3, 2017 12:59pm
  - EAD
    
    Hear hear Kea!
    
    We hear a lot of discussions on c. here but very little discussion on at whose behest are they flooding into the West and for whose benefit are the endless wars being fought in the Middle East against those countries without a Rothschild Central Bank.
    
    See Yinon Plan….. apparently a “conspiracy theory”….. ?
    
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    June 3, 2017 1:06pm
    - Kea
      
      It does my head in the way people perceive Muslim countries are attacking the West because of an occasional home made bomb. Compared to the tens of thousands of real bombs we drop on Muslims !
      
      No Muslim country is attacking any Western one, while we are invading, or otherwise undermining, every country Israel dislikes.
      
      I want the wars to end. Israel can kill for itself if it chooses to do so, or it can do what Jews did for centuries, and still largely do today, and get along with their fellow travellers the Muslims.
      
      If war was the answer the Middle East would be paradise on earth.
      
      I have no problem with any country protecting its culture by being selective about immigration. It is not racist and does not mean immigrants should be marginalised in any way. It simply means selecting immigrants who will maintain and improve the very values they themselves immigrated to enjoy. Sadly many poor fractured Muslim nations do not fit that standard.
      
      We need to get out of their countries and keep them out of ours until they behave themselves and respect our values.
      
      NO BLOODY WARS NEEDED
      
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      June 3, 2017 1:17pm
  - Jack5
    
    Kea’s post at 12.59 listed his answer for West peace with Island. The list included: “Keep Muslims out of the UK if they are not willing to respect UK culture and norms.”
    
    Kea, what to you do when some of their children or grandchildren reject “UK culture and norms”?
    
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    June 3, 2017 1:24pm
    - Kea
      
      Jack5, I did not comment on that as I restricted myself to immigration. But since you asked….
      
      1. Enforce one law for all with no PC exceptions or allowances made.
      
      2. If any cultural conflict occurs then the guest culture must defer to the local one.
      
      Eg: Its okay for Christians to celebrate Christmas and if Muslims don’t like it, then tough shit. Western culture takes the piss out of religious figures like Jesus / Mohamed etc. If they don’t like it then tough shit.
      
      They can dress women in sacks and build mosques on every corner if they like. No worries. While we can build a roast pig shop next to that Mosque and have a gay parade outside. Its about real tolerance, of difference and diversity, rather than the angry militant PC kind.
      
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      June 3, 2017 1:37pm
- VicParking
  
  Better look under my bed
  
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  June 3, 2017 4:12pm
cmm

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/92493924/under-the-line-a-mothers-struggle-to-put-food-on-the-table

Single mother:
* of four
* struggling
* studying to be a social worker
* pulling the victim card

Why are so many of them so keen on becoming social workers?

She clearly is really bad at making decisions, so why the hell should she be let loose on society in a position to give advice to others?

To have one baby out of wedlock is maybe “bad luck”, but four???

If she held up her hand and took responsibility for her actions and her predicament then she might serve as a good negative role model (ie. don’t stuff up your life like I did). But no, she’s playing the victim card – she’s not responsible, it isn’t her fault. She will just tell her victims/clients that it isn;’t their fault and they have no control over their lives.

People like this just make things worse.
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June 3, 2017 1:13pm
- Kea
  
  I already commented on this selfish house wrecker. She ran off from her husband and tried using the tire d old “abuse/victim” line to avoid taking responsibility for her actions. Almost all women do this and I am not buying it.
  
  She is highly manipulative and self centered. She has a free house, money, education for her degree and still portrays herself as a brave hero / victim.
  
  I’m not buying it. She chose this and we have to pay for it !
  
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  June 3, 2017 1:23pm
Fletch

Stefan Molyneux on the Kathy Griffin press conference..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7arfJHSnAFo
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June 3, 2017 1:40pm
- Kea
  
  Check this one out. Wonderful lady. The real deal.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lxoStFBrjo
  
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  June 3, 2017 1:50pm
- stephieboy
  
  Fletch , why do people believe in his weird stuff ?
  
  http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux
  
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  June 3, 2017 6:37pm
starboard

Bill English is a dullard. He just ain’t got ” it “.
Was in a local bar last night just happened to look up at the television and there was Bill dressed in some costume that looked straight out of Hansel and Gretal ( where is he? ) ..burbling on some shit about nothing to some repeater. Luckily I couldn’t hear him over the band.
Dull, very dull. No charisma, no style.
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June 3, 2017 1:48pm
- Kea
  
  Part of his charm is his down to earth and steady style. He is no show pony but more competent than many others.
  
  Now kneel before your leader 🙂
  
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  June 3, 2017 2:13pm
  - VicParking
    
    As a good catholic boy he does not go in for that unless its with Father Jack.
    
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    June 3, 2017 4:18pm
  - Happychappy
    
    Wow I take back what I said about you, like you I believe we have not seen the best of English and I think his work behind the scenes don’t give him the recognition he deserves.?
    
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    June 3, 2017 4:24pm
Reid

Watch as a high level State Dept official is asked why they criticise Iranian elections but never the Saudi’s.

Then read the comments.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

https://twitter.com/AlexanderEmmons/status/869649552617463808
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June 3, 2017 1:50pm
- Kea
  
  The Saudis brutally crush any reform movement with the help of US supplied weapons. Even asking for reform can get you thrown in prison.
  
  The Saudis run a savage Sharia law system that is in no way any better than ISIS.
  
  The US and its handler, Israel, allows the Saudis this as they share a common hatred against Iran and Syria. If Iran and Syria are destroyed, you will see the US suddenly become concerned about human rights in Saudi Arabia.
  
  They are being used and will be discarded when they have served the purpose of destroying Iran.
  
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  June 3, 2017 2:11pm
  - Don the Kiwi
    
    In essence you are correct – but sadly, things are much more complex than that.
    
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    June 3, 2017 5:37pm
    - Reid
      
      No they’re not really Don, that’s about it.
      
      Most people can’t face it due to the Holohoax propaganda which prevents people subject to it from understanding simple common sense.
      
      The only complex thing is how Israel and the West has achieved this hallucination within their own populations and I can explain this if you like but first you need to understand this has actually happened and continues to, and unless and until you do that there’s little point explaining the how.
      
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      June 3, 2017 8:34pm
sooty

Len Brown drops his pants!
Phil Goff reaches into yours!
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June 3, 2017 2:04pm
- VicParking
  
  Bill has no pockets
  Andy does not know how a zip works
  
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  June 3, 2017 4:20pm
Kea

The mental illness of alarmism – climate depression, climate change delusion

Who would have guessed? A relentless propaganda campaign to generate fear about the climate has generated fear about the climate. It takes billions of dollars to generate delusion on this scale.

Now there are research papers analyzing “The Debilitating Disease of Climate Alarmism”, and counselors are (presumably) paid to counsel people on how to be afraid, but not overly so.

What’s the difference between this and a cult? A 17 year old was hospitalized with dehydration because he believed if he didn’t drink water it would help prevent a water shortage. A PhD grad says ““Every time I talked about environmental issues, I would start crying”.

http://joannenova.com.au/2014/08/alarmists-and-mental-illness-climate-depression-climate-change-delusion/

😆
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June 3, 2017 2:18pm
- stephieboy
  
  Kea , Jo Nova hysteria ( after Freud ),
  
  JO NOVA REVEALS CLIMATE SCIENCE’S ENDGAME: CONTROLLING THE WORLD BWAH HA HA!!!
  
  Jo Nova likes to call climate change the second biggest scam in history? And the largest scam? She is still hinting at the real agenda of the bankers, scientists, governments, and /or aliens who really control the world.
  As I noted earlier in the year, Nova and her husband subscribe to a fringe conspiracy theory known as the “economic collapse”.
  
  In short, the “elites” are about to usher in an age of hyperinflation in order to cement their hold on power:
  
  https://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/2010/12/15/jo-nova-reveals-climate-sciences-endgame-controlling-the-world-bwah-ha-ha/
  
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  June 3, 2017 3:46pm
Kea

Poor broken Griffy, as demented as ever.

Sitting in his doomsday prepper compound in the far north waiting for the end times while off his face on weed. So angry that the world is not listening to his dire warnings about some computer model that predicts slightly warmer weather.

How tragic . I blame Trump. Don’t you ? 😆
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June 3, 2017 2:48pm
- starboard
  
  bawhahahaha classic..poor old gwiff ” the end is nigh I tells ya”…wheres me fuckin weed, christ just a roach, anything..
  
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  June 3, 2017 8:37pm
Kea

We are seeing the end of climate change scam.

Trump has freed America from the shackles of this global socialist movement. This will give America a great advantage in the global market, creating productivity, jobs and saving billions of dollars.

Other countries that wish to compete with the USA will find themselves falling behind. They too will stop artificially hamstringing themselves by indulging this absurd nonsense of global floods and the end times.

If you think the Chinese are going to sit back and let this happen then you are dreaming. There are plenty of countries that will happily trade with the USA and a few snotty Europeans won’t bother them in the slightest.

Its over and Trump has ushered in a new era of enlightment 🙂
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June 3, 2017 3:35pm
- stephieboy
  
  Kea , so Trump’s America First Trade and Protectionist barriers does not smack of a “Socialist ” Agenda ?
  
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  June 3, 2017 3:41pm
  - Kea
    
    stupidboy Trump’s job is to put America first, not some backward shithole most Americans could not find on a map.
    
    And he is doing a great job of it too judging by the impotent rage of you lot 🙂
    
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    June 3, 2017 4:10pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Kea , answer my question !
      
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      June 3, 2017 4:14pm
      - Kea
        
        Yes stupidboy you got me. Trump is socialist just like you said.
        
        He is a true man of the people. We have been trying to tell you that for ages and finally you have got it.
        
        Much better than that filthy elitist Obama don’t you think ? 🙂
        
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        June 3, 2017 4:17pm
      - Don the Kiwi
        
        stupidboy still doesn’t get it
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9t_KDGqOmE
        
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        June 3, 2017 5:43pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Don the Kiwi , lame and weak !
        
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        June 3, 2017 6:39pm
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Here I agree Kea. Climate Change agreements is stealing from the rich (western world) and giving to the poor (3rd world countries) so they can fight tribal wars.
  Socialism ALWAYS fails
  
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  June 3, 2017 3:58pm
  - rangitoto
    
    “Climate Change agreements is stealing from the rich (western world) and ~~giving to the poor (3rd world countries)~~ lining the pockets of tin pot dictators..
    
    Fixed.
    
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    June 3, 2017 5:08pm
rightoverlabour

I see stuff has employed a distinguished climate scientist, or maybe not, peddling the same same shit as most of the rest of the gullible MSM.

Maybe we need a dedicated post to the Global Warming Swindle/Hoax/ Crime of the Century..FFS

We dont “refuse to believe the Science” we are challenging bad science or pseudoscience as some are calling this now. Fuck, some people are thick, and that includes a lot of the 97%… who ever they are.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/93310922/the-psychology-of-climate-change-denial-why-sceptics-refuse-to-believe-the-science
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June 3, 2017 3:56pm
- stephieboy
  
  roghtoverlabour ,
  
  the science behind clomate change denial,
  
  Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump
  The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.
  8:15 AM – 7 Nov 2012
  
  LOL !
  
  From you link the real “science “,
  
  “I’ve encountered younger Christians who believe that the world was created exactly as it is right now, in the last 10,000 years, and God said he wasn’t going to destroy it again like the [great] flood, and therefore it’s not going to happen. That trumps all arguments.”
  
  LOL yet again!
  
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  June 3, 2017 4:17pm
  - Don the Kiwi
    
    “…the science behind clomate change denial”,
    
    So what is “CLOMATE” stupidboy?
    
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    June 3, 2017 5:47pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Climate , dumb ass !
      
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      June 3, 2017 6:40pm
- itstricky
  
  Swindle/Hoax
  
  Can you describe exactly what the swindle is trying to achieve, as was questioned in the article?
  
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  June 3, 2017 5:02pm
  - Reid
    
    Yes, I can tricky.
    
    Why?
    
    Do you want to know?
    
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    June 3, 2017 5:53pm
    - sam green
      
      Yep Reid. Tell us what the swindle is.
      
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      June 3, 2017 6:18pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Reid , thats right what is the hoax exactly ?
        
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        June 3, 2017 6:41pm
      - Reid
        
        No-one’s asking what the hoax is stephie. That’s not the question. Why don’t you read the whole thing again to find out what we’re talking about now.
        
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        June 3, 2017 7:06pm
    - Reid
      
      I’m waiting for tricky. If he wants to know then he’s going to need to agree to being told via the socratic method on a fresh thread at the bottom of GD on a time and day mutually agreeable e.g. sometime tomorrow and if he’s not interested in those conditions then I’m not interested in explaining it.
      
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      June 3, 2017 7:04pm
      - sam green
        
        That’s not what you said earlier.
        
        Maybe itstricky has gone out to a party or some such social event.
        
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        June 3, 2017 7:25pm
      - Reid
        
        How does any of that contradict what I said earlier sam?
        
        And don’t worry, I’ll keep checking back, as I feel like it, and if he responds then so will I.
        
        But until he does, nothing will happen.
        
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        June 3, 2017 7:43pm
nasska

…..”I see stuff has employed a distinguished climate scientist”……

They probably only had to offer him the minimum wage. There’s not much demand for necromancers & fudgers of fact since Trump pulled down the house of cards.

Still there’s always a chance of a new career in road coning with Fulton Hogan should things not work out with Stuff. 🙂
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June 3, 2017 4:29pm
- Kea
  
  Griff wouldn’t pass the drug test just for starters.
  
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  June 3, 2017 4:42pm
  - dad4justice
    
    Griff should be a cop they don’t drug test and there is always plenty to share around.
    
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    June 3, 2017 5:13pm
Don the Kiwi

One of the joys of the Trump presidency is seeing all the duped lefties – like stupidboy and most of the libtard dems in the US wetting there pants at everything Trump does –

Even though it it better for the US, and for the greater part, better for the world – and the environment. 😆
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June 3, 2017 5:52pm
- Kea
  
  The media melt downs are the best. Everyday multiple fake news stories and petty bitchy articles about Trump.
  
  Meanwhile his popularity soars 🙂
  
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  June 3, 2017 6:00pm
  - mikenmild
    
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo
    
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    June 3, 2017 6:30pm
    - Kea
      
      LOL good one milky 🙂
      
      This is the same source that said he would lose the election, based on his approval ratings.
      
      He will win again. Trump is a winner. He knows how to win. He is a great man.
      
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      June 3, 2017 6:35pm
  - kowtow
    
    Our very own RNZ ‘news” led with a fake news item at 5 pm today.
    Tuvalu’s erosion and salt water intrusion caused by climate change.
    Nope they’ve fucked up their environment , but let’s blame Trump.
    
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/332184/pacific-leaders-react-to-us-climate-move-with-indignation
    
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    June 3, 2017 6:42pm
    - Kea
      
      Pacific islands ‘growing not shrinking’ due to climate change
      
      Low-lying Pacific islands regarded as “poster child” examples of the threat from rising sea levels are expanding not sinking, a new study has revealed.
      
      Scientists have been surprised by the findings, which show that some islands have grown by almost one-third over the past 60 years.
      Among the island chains to have increased in land area are Tuvalu and neighbouring Kiribati, both of which attracted attention at last year’s Copenhagen climate summit.
      In the study, researchers compared aerial photographs and high-resolution satellite images of 27 islands taken since the 1950s.
      
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/tuvalu/7799503/Pacific-islands-growing-not-shrinking-due-to-climate-change.html
      
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      June 3, 2017 6:46pm
      - sam green
        
        Kea hasn’t read fully ….
        
        “”These islands are so low lying that in extreme events waves crash straight over the top of them,” Professor Kench said.
        “In doing that they transport sediment from the beach or adjacent reef platform and they throw it on to the top of the island.”
        But the two scientists warn that people living on the islands still face serious challenges from climate change, particularly if the pace of sea level rises were to overtake that of sediment build-up.
        The fresh groundwater that sustains villagers and their crops could be destroyed.
        “The land may be there but will they still be able to support human habitation?” he said.
        Naomi Thirobaux, a student from Kiribati who has studied the islands for a PhD, said no one should be lulled into thinking erosion and inundation were not taking their toll on the islands.
        “In a populated place, people can’t move back or inland because there’s hardly any place to move into, so that’s quite dramatic,” she said.”
        
        Aye?
        
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        June 3, 2017 7:21pm
      - Don the Kiwi
        
        Of course, many of these islands are of volcanic origin, where the atoll is really the caldera of the volcano – and being volcanic, it decays over millenia.
        So the islands are gradually sinking – but of course, this is blamed on “sea level rise” to support the mainly false narative.
        
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        June 3, 2017 8:18pm
Viking2

Having a few minutes to spare thought I would look in on the whale. He has a special deal on for all you poor bed performers, ugly looking dumb fuckers.
He reckons his deal will improve your bedtime reading, give you a face lift and ramp up your digital ram.

THANK YOU for being a subscriber. Because of you Whaleoil is going from strength to strength. It is a little known fact that Whaleoil subscribers are better in bed, good looking and highly intelligent. Sometimes all at once! Please Click Here Now to subscribe to an ad-free Whaleoil.
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June 3, 2017 6:04pm
- nasska
  
  ….”Whaleoil subscribers are better in bed, good looking and highly intelligent”…..
  
  Probably written by Pete as sits unshaven in front of a borrowed computer in his unwashed underwear, scratching his balls while celebrating fifty years of virginity.
  
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  June 3, 2017 6:13pm
- dad4justice
  
  Whale Oil is a good advertisement for bad mental health.
  
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  June 3, 2017 6:17pm
All_on_Red

‘RAQQA, Syria — The self-proclaimed Islamic State has issued a statement condemning self-proclaimed comedian Kathy Griffin, accusing her of “cultural appropriation” after she posed for a photograph with a mock severed head of President Donald Trump.
The group, which has been protective of its brand ever since taking over vast swaths of Iraq and Syria and establishing itself as the premier beheading agency in the Middle East, said it was deeply disturbed by Griffin’s “ignorant and offensive” use of a “sacred Islamic State tradition.”
“This is just another example of a privileged white woman culturally appropriating the proud custom of a marginalized people. Beheadings are our thing, not your thing,” said the statement, which was released on Telegram.
Reports indicate that ISIS was at least somewhat relieved to see the swift and overwhelming backlash against Griffin on social media.
“Of course, the West’s social justice ‘warriors’ have always been our ally, and once again, they did not disappoint. We’re thankful that our fatwa friends immediately identified her offensive appropriation of one of our most cherished rituals,” said Aahil al-Raqqa, an executioner for the group.’
?

http://www.duffelblog.com/2017/06/kathy-griffin-donald-trump-beheading/#ixzz4iutzzN4d
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June 3, 2017 6:09pm
Kea

To over turn our understanding of climate science would take a major rewrite of our ~~understanding of the physical laws that govern our universe.~~ funding and understanding of how politics has influenced science.

There fixed it for you Griffy 🙂
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June 3, 2017 6:09pm
- All_on_Red
  
  My good friend Griff has unfortunately suffered criticism in the past…Embarrassingly on one of the worlds most widely read and award winning science blogs.
  ‘Griff,
  That’s called a straw-man argument. Look it up. The fact that you would stoop to such tactics means that you have no cogent arguments. This is why you are mostly ignored here.’
  
  ‘Anyone ever notice how Griff, just loses perspective of the article and discussion then wanders off in his hunt for assumptions and conspiracies?
  If his writing was a little more obtuse, he could be Loserandownsky researching his next fabrications.’
  
  ‘I gather, that you Griff, with your usual total lack of reading comprehension did not read the comments.’
  
  ‘Absolute confirmation that griffypoo, never reads the articles or most comments.
  Read the article griffy, before making grossly wrong statements.’
  
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  June 3, 2017 6:28pm
  - mikenmild
    
    ‘one of the worlds most widely read and award winning science blogs’
    ROFL
    
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    June 3, 2017 6:38pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      What is really funny is all on red the DK thinks all these Griffs are me as well .
      https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=griff&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=KF8yWf61PMbV8gf6wYTACg
      About 45,100,000 results
      
      …
      
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      June 3, 2017 7:04pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ?
        
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        June 3, 2017 7:06pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        The flurry of attention seeking trolling over climate change may be a portent . Just remember what happens when you go full retard parrot.
        This time you are a Norwegian Blue.
        
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        June 3, 2017 7:27pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Says the looney with 6 strikes for abuse ?
        Strike 7 for you next time DK head.
        That’ll be funny.
        
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        June 3, 2017 7:33pm
      - Kea
        
        I wonder if this new Griff entity will carry on his abusive and vile attacks against Maggy, a respected scientist, resulting in his banning ?
        
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        June 3, 2017 7:37pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Of course he will. He’s a Stalker who can’t help himself.
        
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        June 3, 2017 7:40pm
  - Kea
    
    The funny thing is Griff is the only one here who does get his science from the climate blogs he haunts.
    
    Poor clueless Griff cuts a tragic figure as roams the worlds climate blogs looking for a friend 🙂
    
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    June 3, 2017 6:41pm
Harriet

Hey Grief,

With regards to using the word ‘consensus’ at uni, do you use scientific rules – or just the rules of grammar? 😎
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June 3, 2017 6:40pm
Kea

Hey Griff have you seen this science ?
Seems those Pacific Islands you said were disappearing are in fact growing. 🙂

============================

Low-lying Pacific islands regarded as “poster child” examples of the threat from rising sea levels are expanding not sinking, a new study has revealed.

Scientists have been surprised by the findings, which show that some islands have grown by almost one-third over the past 60 years.
Among the island chains to have increased in land area are Tuvalu and neighbouring Kiribati, both of which attracted attention at last year’s Copenhagen climate summit.
In the study, researchers compared aerial photographs and high-resolution satellite images of 27 islands taken since the 1950s.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/tuvalu/7799503/Pacific-islands-growing-not-shrinking-due-to-climate-change.html
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June 3, 2017 7:09pm
- Harriet
  
  “……Scientists have been surprised by the findings, which show that some islands have grown by almost one-third over the past 60 years…..”
  
  They’re probably the younger generation of ‘climate scientists’ Kea, maybe the older ‘climate scientists’ of the 70’s are not so surprised and were right all along and we are heading instead for another ice age. Any thoughts on this ‘new’ and ‘natural’ development Kea? 😎
  
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  June 3, 2017 7:24pm
  - Kea
    
    No idea Harriet and nor has anyone else. Climate is too chaotic and there are too many variables to make predictions. As evidenced by he huge failures of those who have attempted to make predictions.
    
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    June 3, 2017 7:34pm
- sam green
  
  Tell the rest of the story Kea … “”These islands are so low lying that in extreme events waves crash straight over the top of them,” Professor Kench said.
  “In doing that they transport sediment from the beach or adjacent reef platform and they throw it on to the top of the island.”
  But the two scientists warn that people living on the islands still face serious challenges from climate change, particularly if the pace of sea level rises were to overtake that of sediment build-up.
  The fresh groundwater that sustains villagers and their crops could be destroyed.
  “The land may be there but will they still be able to support human habitation?” he said.
  Naomi Thirobaux, a student from Kiribati who has studied the islands for a PhD, said no one should be lulled into thinking erosion and inundation were not taking their toll on the islands.
  “In a populated place, people can’t move back or inland because there’s hardly any place to move into, so that’s quite dramatic,” she said.”
  
  Aye.
  
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  June 3, 2017 8:17pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Ah yes, the ‘pace’ of sea level rise in Kiribati…
    ‘The mean sea level trend is 0.58 millimeters/year with a 95% confidence
    interval of +/- 0.87 mm/yr based on monthly mean sea level data from
    1949 to 2007 which is equivalent to a change of 0.19 feet in 100 years.’
    https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_global_station.htm?stnid=750-012
    
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    June 3, 2017 8:20pm
    - stephieboy
      
      All on Red and other Trumpets ( including Squawks aka Kea )
      
      The Kiribati People Battle Sea Level Rise
      
      Residents of the island nation are pursuing a range of work to fortify their homeland
      
      “ The Pacific island country of Kiribati is an increasingly popular destination for journalists and environmental activists hoping to “see” sea level rise. If they travel to the right village at the right stage of the annual tidal cycle and wander out at the right time of the day, they will certainly find flooding. The images of flooded homes, taro pits and maneabas (community meeting huts) do provide a window into Kiribati’s possible future. But these ubiquitous pictures are only part of the story
      
      Kiribati is not just a passive victim. It is home to the fledging first steps of a broad, international effort to aid the developing world in adapting to climate change. A trip along the narrow islands of South Tarawa reveals everything from organizations like the Kiribati Adaptation Project to workers rebuilding roads, people carrying sandbags to fortify new seawalls, young mangrove saplings planted to strengthen the lagoon shoreline and installation of a crucial leak-detection system for vulnerable freshwater pipes. These scenes and others are captured in photos I have taken during my various trips to the island nation.”
      
      https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/donner-the-kiribati-people-battle-sea-level-rise-slide-show/
      
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      June 3, 2017 9:50pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Science Denier!
        Cough Actual tidal measurements from NOAA, you’re so thick- lol
        Edit- you didn’t even look at the link, hahahahahahahha
        Soooo funny
        KBs Dumbest Commentator
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:56pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘Various trips to the Island!’ -lol
        
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        June 3, 2017 10:00pm
  - Kea
    
    I posted the link not the whole story. The islands are growing. That was my statement.
    
    Islands like that appear and disappear and it has nothing to do with climate change. It has always happened. It is normal and natural.
    
    A key point the liars thought not to reference in the article.
    
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    June 3, 2017 8:22pm
    - sam green
      
      A key point is that the real liar chose not to read the article – only the headline. Burn.
      
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      June 3, 2017 8:26pm
      - Kea
        
        spam the article supports my claim. The islands are growing not shrinking as the alarmists claim. Not interested in your white guilt trip or stories about ground water.
        
        The changes the island are going through has nothing to do with capitalism, white people, climate change or Trump. They are natural processes. That is the science dimwit.
        
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        June 3, 2017 8:33pm
      - sam green
        
        Not my story Kea. Just posting the article in full.
        
        By the way – I never mentioned “capitalism, white people, climate change or (strangely) Trump”.
        
        Nor, actually, am I debating “climate change”. That’s the hyperventalitive issue you have with Gryffyndor, not me.
        
        Still – You must be feeling the burn.
        
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        June 3, 2017 8:51pm
      - Kea
        
        spam, Please have some respect for others and post a link not the whole bloody thing. Are you channeling Penny ?
        
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        June 3, 2017 8:53pm
      - sam green
        
        With respect my dear – you posted a link to the article – I am merely adding a quote from your posting – which obviously you did not read.
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:00pm
      - Kea
        
        I thought not to include irrelevant nonsense about ground water when the point was the islands are growing. Which they are. The rest was breathless hype to try and maintain the hysteria about a global flood caused by mans sins.
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:06pm
      - sam green
        
        Ok. I guess fresh ground water’s not that important to people who live on an atoll. After all – there’ll be another tropical hurricane along soon. Hopefully it will add a bit more topsoil to the sand.
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:10pm
      - Kea
        
        They drink bottled water and their food is supplied by tax payers in NZ and other places. They sit on their arses laughing at you.
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:16pm
      - sam green
        
        Ya still got burned Kea. ?
        
        And you still keep making comments about things and peoples you know nothing about – in order to inflame debate. What is that about? Your own basement level self esteem? If so, I hope you have some good home support from your loved ones.
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:28pm
      - Kea
        
        This from a guy who just made a bunch of comments with absolutely no relevance to my point, that the islands are growing.
        
        Slither back into your hole little man, drenched in failure yet again. Next time you slither out try and bring a point or some sort of coherent argument.
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:39pm
      - sam green
        
        Refer to my previous comment Kea. I hope you’re ok. Sincerely.
        
        (I didn’t downtick you by the way. I don’t really care about ticks.)
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:43pm
      - Kea
        
        I don’t really care about your views on me, ground water, or ticks. The issue is warmists lying about the islands vanishing, when the evidence clearly shows they are growing. You are rather blatantly trying to divert attention from the fact with all this banal drivel. If you were more honest you would not need to resort to these sorts of sleazy tactics.
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:55pm
      - sam green
        
        You’re funny. Sleep tight hun.
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:58pm
  - Don the Kiwi
    
    Don the Kiwi
    
    Of course, many of these islands are of volcanic origin, where the atoll is really the caldera of the volcano – and being volcanic, it decays over millenia.
    So the islands are gradually sinking – but of course, this is blamed on “sea level rise” to support the mainly false narative.
    
    (Have repeated my 8.18 pm. from previous.)
    
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    June 3, 2017 8:25pm
    - Kea
      
      The inhabitants of these islands are running a scam milking millions from developed [white] countries and showing zero gratitude while doing it.
      
      Its a perfect example of the global socialism that fuels the climate movement.
      
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      June 3, 2017 8:29pm
    - mikenmild
      
      If that were the case, the islands would have vanished a long time ago. What actually happens is that the coral growths outstrips the erosion of the caldera or seamount – that’s what creates an atoll in the first place.
      
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      June 3, 2017 8:44pm
Kea

I had a look at The Standard for a laugh. Someone should tell them Trump is not a NZ political figure. They are obsessed with the great man 🙂
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June 3, 2017 7:52pm
- sam green
  
  So is KB.
  
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  June 3, 2017 8:15pm
  - Gruffydd
    
    They are obsessed with the great man
    
    I think I mentioned how self aware some are earlier .
    
    Then we have those who get all wound up over snowflakes.
    
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    June 3, 2017 8:39pm
    - Kea
      
      “snowflakes”
      
      Griff but I thought snow was a thing of the past ? 🙂
      
      At least that is what your climate priests claimed many years ago. I note they have trotted that one out again recently.
      
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      June 3, 2017 8:46pm
nasska

How’s life in the winterless north going Griff?
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June 3, 2017 8:42pm
- Gruffydd
  
  OK
  We have brought a couple of ex forces homes from west Auckland to go on the block.
  Good solid kiwi timber homes like a tile roof n wood state house but to a better standard. Being the forces they are well maintained and insulated.
  We are going to join them together and make a nice big four bedroom house with all the mod cons.
  Then there is the beach house.
  They just got the floor in so we can see the view from each room for the first time .
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:14pm
  - Kea
    
    Griff, you can pop a sweet coal range in there and you will be all set 🙂
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:18pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Well, maybe he can if he got left enough money.
      Still, coal is cheap so good when you’re on a budget!
      
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      June 3, 2017 9:42pm
      - Kea
        
        Yes cheap, organic and sustainable. There is no down side to coal 🙂
        
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        June 3, 2017 9:45pm
  - Gruffydd
    
    Why would I burn coal ?
    Its smelly dirty shit .
    I have tee tree
    lots of tee tree free for the effort of cutting it down.
    Nuts must keep being nutty.
    Dk and squawk the ignorant and the screen licker.
    
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    June 4, 2017 8:00am
mikenmild

The Lions struggle past the Provincial Barbarians side 13-7. Going to be very tough for them.
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June 3, 2017 9:34pm
- Kimbo
  
  The 1971 Lions, on slightly less preparation time than this team, and having just jumped off a plane and still suffering from jet lag, lost their first game of the tour to Queensland. And no decent touring team lost any games in Australia, much less to Queensland in those days! Former Wallaby and All Black Des Connor labeled them “the worst Lions team of all time”.
  
  Some three months later, other than losing the second test to the All Blacks, that was their only defeat on tour. I expect these latest Lions to lose at least two non-test games on this tour, such is the deficit they have to make up in preparation time. But despite that, I wouldn’t count them out. Not on the basis of a tour opener, with what may turn out to be their dirt tracker team.
  
  The 1993 Lions lost 4 non-test games, but were arguably unlucky to lose the test series, although the All Blacks, with some judicious cheating in the line outs deserved to win the third and deciding game.
  
  Sure, the All Black side this Lions team are up against is much stronger than what the 1971 or 1993 tourists faced. Nonetheless, they will use the three weeks before the first test to work on their combinations. If they take any luck that goes their way and can grind out a win in either of the first two tests, and take it to 1-1 going into the decider, then it’s all on.
  
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  June 3, 2017 9:47pm
  - mikenmild
    
    I’d say a bet on the Blues at 3.35 looks like a good investment right now.
    
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    June 3, 2017 9:55pm
    - Kimbo
      
      Have got tickets for me and Mrs Kimbo this Wednesday night.
      
      Even though I will always support Ponsonby, as a good Dunedin-born boy I have sworn that if Satan and the minions of hell turned up to play an Auckland-based team at Eden Park, I’m cheering for the guy in the red pyjamas.
      
      However, the one exception was when I was sitting behind the goal posts at the Eastern then-Terrace end, staring into a slanting setting sun, and, in between the showers that came sweeping occasionally over the ground due to the strong Westerly (typical Auckland, four seasons in one day!)
      
      …a young Grant Fox drop kicked a goal in the last few minutes for Auckland to beat the 1983 Lions 13-12. Even broke my glasses cheering when he nailed it!
      
      Ponies players on the field that day were Joe Stanley and Andy Haden. A young John Kirwan, just recently picked out of the Marist Colts played that day too – and his quick thinking stopped Clive Woodward scoring an early try.
      
      So as long as there are plenty of Ponsonby boys picked (go the Akira brothers! Your Hurricanes can keep Ponies export Vince Aso for the moment)…yes, you could be right.
      
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      June 3, 2017 10:09pm
sam green

Good interview with the baabaa captain just then. Good to watch. Well done both teams. Well done Lions!
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June 3, 2017 9:56pm
Manolo

Another day, another liberal march:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/03/liberal-groups-get-behind-weekend-march-for-truth-rallies-aimed-at-trump.html
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June 4, 2017 6:41am

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