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June 1, 2017 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 1 June 2017

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William of Ockham

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/01/survival-of-coral-reefs-requires-radical-rethink-of-what-conservation-means-say-scientists

“Helping coral reefs to safely navigate the Anthropocene is a profound challenge for multiscale governance,” the scientists say in a paper published today in the journal Nature.

The paper comes amid increased urgency from conservationists and reef managers around the world, sparked by the worst global bleaching event in recorded history. It caused mass die-offs in every major coral reef region of the world. On the Great Barrier Reef alone, it is estimated that about half the coral was killed in 2016 and 2017.

“In the coming centuries, reefs will run the gauntlet of climate change, and rising temperatures will transform them into new configurations, unlike anything observed previously by humans,” the paper says. [continues]

========================================================

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/31/china-eu-climate-lead-paris-agreement

China and the EU will forge an alliance to take a leading role in tackling global warming in response to Donald Trump’s expected decision to pull the US out of the historic Paris agreement.

Amid growing fears that the US will soon join Nicaragua and Syria on the small list of countries refusing to back the climate accord signed in 2015, Beijing and Brussels have been preparing to announce their intention to accelerate joint efforts to reduce global carbon emissions.

According to a statement being prepared before an EU-China summit in Brussels on Thursday and Friday, the new alliance will say they are determined to “lead the energy transition” towards a low-carbon economy.

The expected announcement in Brussels illustrates China’s determination to take a leadership role in the world … [continues]
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June 1, 2017 8:01am
- cmm
  
  Every time you fire up your computer and connect to the internet, you cause the computer and the servers to increase their load which uses more power which requires more coal to be burned.
  
  So each time you post something a polar bear dies.
  
  This is especially relevant for highly informative long posts, such as yours, with lots of links because that means people have to keep their computers on for a long time, then click on all the links.
  
  So each time someone reads your post another polar bear dies.
  
  If you really cared about the polar bears you would stop posting.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:11am
- All_on_Red
  
  Oh don’t be so dramatic. Once President Trump pulls out of the Climate accord, we will have three whole days before the world ends!
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:20am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    All on Red , I understand he is also poised to ban the teaching of evolution in schools making instead Creation Science compulsory !
    
    LOL !
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:36am
    - Liberty
      
      stephieboy
      You might be trying to be a smart arse .
      But unfortunately You are right.
      Trump support . That is what is left of it
      Is bible belt. Who have not advanced
      very far from the time of the Pilgrim fathers.
      At lest they have stopped burning witches.
      
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      June 1, 2017 10:35am
      - stephieboy
        
        Liberty and Lynchings !
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:58am
      - Nukuleka
        
        You cannot be taken seriously when you post what are obviously absurd, hyperbolic and overwhelmingly inaccurate comments. The best parallel to ‘burning witches’ in the contemporary US climate is the banning and muzzling of non pc speakers such as Milo Yiannopoulos and Anne Coulter who are being silenced on US campuses by progressive liberals who do not believe that anyone has the right to express an opinion that is contrary to their own.
        
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        June 1, 2017 12:10pm
      - Kea
        
        ha ha stupidboy you got nuked @ 12:10 🙂
        
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        June 1, 2017 6:33pm
      - Liberty
        
        Nukuleka
        Early America was rife with religious intolerance.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials
        The persecution of witches is no longer in vogue.
        Religious intolerance is still rife in the bible belt . Trump
        is in the forefront of such bigotry with his
        Muslim travel ban.
        
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        June 1, 2017 9:07pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      @stephieboy
      
      Is the suggestion that the POTUS is poised to ban the teaching of evolution in schools based on your understanding alone?
      
      …… otherwise, references, please.
      
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      June 1, 2017 11:52am
- jms
  
  After his twitter announcements, anything short of a complete pull out will be a disappointment.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:25am
- G152
  
  So all those tourists who dive on the GBR every day are somehow NOT diving on the GBR and those towns along the East Coast with all their tourism advertising seeing and diving on the GBR are lying ?
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:37am
- thedavincimode
  
  A sterling effort by the 31 people who took the trouble to log in within half an hour of GD starting and enable me to avoid the inconvenience of having to scroll past that crap.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:39am
  - 4077th
    
    Yes indeed, that must be some sort of record. Well done to the so far 32 sensible members.
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:52am
    - stephieboy
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      “Sensible ” 32 members ?
      
      Your deluded !
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:46am
      - B.L.Zeebub
        
        https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NAAfPJ6QFMQ/hqdefault.jpg
        
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        June 1, 2017 9:56am
      - 4077th
        
        You’re deluded. There, I fixed it for you and now makes more sense.
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:09am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        https://www.changingworld.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800×800/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/-/5-gr24_2.jpg
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:40am
- Kea
  
  ” global bleaching event”
  
  Willy is that like anal bleaching, except it’s not a real thing ?
  
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  June 1, 2017 6:30pm
Dafixeruppa

Oh FFS, can we please just delete this mornings GD and start again?
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June 1, 2017 8:03am
- RalphT
  
  Yes, it looks like yesterday’s quiet smooth start was an aberration, not the start of a welcome trend. Bugger.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:06am
- 4077th
  
  There are enough of us here to ensure that Dr Woo’s comments will get hidden fairly quickly.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:12am
  - Dafixeruppa
    
    Can I reply Woo who? or is it spelled WOO HOO!
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:44am
    - 4077th
      
      I understand my reference may have been a little cryptic but Dr Woo is a very fitting title..
      
      https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2011-01-26-dr-woo-and-the-silicon-snake-oil-bangle-sellers/#.WS8_eMZg06g
      
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      June 1, 2017 10:22am
duggledog

So Paula B and National reckon the way to stem the tsunami of aggravated robberies is to chuck a lazy mil at the problem. That’s out of $1,800,000,000 in annual tobacco tax.

Epic fail and a stupid, stupid response – only months out from the GE.

These are extremely vulnerable, hard working new immigrants trying to run marginal businesses (dairies) that we all rely on to a certain extent.

They don’t want the Government to give them back a tiny proportion of their taxes. They want effective, harsh, sentences that hurt and dissuade further banditry – for that is what it is – applied quickly and decisively.

Yes, this means wholesale changes to the legal system – I mean ‘justice system’ but they are long overdue. Weeds don’t flourish where there is an effective gardener.

Man there is a vacuum to the right of National.
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June 1, 2017 8:04am
- kowtow
  
  Nanny never sleeps.
  
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/93172207/the-new-zealand-defence-force-will-be-the-first-smokefree-armed-force-in-the-world
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:16am
  - peterwn
    
    Smoking, like rum do not have a place in a modern navy. Not applicable to NZ but I wonder if smoking is allowed in submarines. I doubt it.
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:24am
    - kowtow
      
      Many naval traditions have been done away with , but sodomy is probably making a fashionable comeback.
      
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      June 1, 2017 8:35am
      - 4077th
        
        “comeback” I see what you did there 🙂
        
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        June 1, 2017 8:53am
      - Colville
        
        “comeback” ? That would be felching.
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:29am
      - 4077th
        
        @Colville,
        
        Now there is a word! When I first heard that word (30 years ago) and enquired about it’s meaning, I have since only used it very sparingly.
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:51am
    - noskire
      
      As far as I know, the USN still allows smoking in its subs – there’s a designated smoking area, normally in the torpedo bay.
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:19am
      - cha
        
        there’s a designated smoking area, normally in the torpedo bay.
        
        Cool story, bro, but smoking aboard submarines was given the arse in 2010.
        
        http://www.nbcnews.com/id/36829638/ns/us_news-military/t/no-butts-about-it-navy-subs-ban-smoking/
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:44am
  - G152
    
    🙂
    In 1957 we had smokeless cordite, roundies and tickler. What ever will become of the “out pipes” pipe ?????
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:40am
  - thedavincimode
    
    Being the selfish tiny-minded little reactionary you are kowtow, it doesn’t surprise me that you think it’s acceptable for smokers to inconvenience non-smokers. This should have happened yonks ago.
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:45am
    - kowtow
      
      “This should have happened yonks ago.”
      
      Yep , scary when the playground bullies grow up and get a bit of authority behind them. They can then pass off their nastiness as concern for others.
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:02am
      - stephieboy
        
        kowtow , from one who believes the clock should be switched back to a restricted voting franchise c 1840s.
        
        LOL !
        
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        June 1, 2017 9:49am
    - Reid
      
      Yes it’s a huge fucking inconvenience to have people you’ll never meet smoking somewhere in places you’ll never go. Huge inconvenience. Massive. Probably keeps you awake at night, cry yourself to sleep, first thing you think about when you awake, that kinda thing tdm? Has it given you a temperature? Do you need a warm glass of lemon? Would that make it better? Please let us all know how we can help, this is dreadful. Somthing must be done! Now!
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:35am
      - stephieboy
        
        Reid , smoke free a manifestation of that nefarious Jewish Cultural Marxism ?
        
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        June 1, 2017 9:51am
      - thedavincimode
        
        Gosh Reid, thanks for setting me straight. I wasn’t aware that everybody in the NZDF smoked, meaning that there can’t be any non-smokers who have to put up with 2nd hand cigarette smoke in their lungs, clothes, skin and hair.
        
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        June 1, 2017 9:57am
- Chris R
  
  The problem will be curbed (but not eradicated) when one of the shop owners produces a shot gun to wave in the faces of these thieving thugs. If brutish behaviour is met by brutish behaviour it will, at the very least create a stand-off.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:17am
  - Sideoiler
    
    The problem will be curbed (but not eradicated) when one of the shop owners produces a shot gun to wave in the faces of these thieving thugs. If brutish behaviour is met by brutish behaviour it will, at the very least create a stand-off.
    
    I do hope you don’t own a firearm.
    A gun should never be produced unless you are absolutely prepared to use it.
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:45am
    - Chris R
      
      I do actually, but I am not a shop keeper; you’re quite safe!!!
      
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      June 1, 2017 8:59am
  - MCos
    
    I would suggest that if owners start “producing shotguns” there will be mayhem.
    It doesn’t take much imagination to see how this could turn to custard, particularly if the robbers are crazy enough to stand their ground and try to grab the gun.
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:22am
  - Gabby
    
    So you want to encourage the thugs to go in shooting. Genius.
    
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    June 1, 2017 6:04pm
- 4077th
  
  There is only one reason for the rise in this type of crime. Successive governments have piled on the tobacco tax to a point where ciggies are now more valuable than serious drugs, readily available and legal to buy and sell. Plain and simple, the government has created the market and is now left to mop up it’s own mess. Having just returned from Japan, smokes are around $5/pack of 20. While smoking has not been banned in many restaurants and bars there are segregated area’s but most interestingly smoking is banned on most streets. Signs on the footpath and warnings of instant fines. This seems to work as I did not notice anyone other than ignorant tourists smoking on the streets. There are many ways to curb smoking habits but taxing your way to abstention is a fools paradise. Plainly all it serves to do is create a thriving black market, create more criminals, victims and make poor people poorer. God forbid a conservative government ever putting taxes down /sarc.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:24am
  - Chris R
    
    So…these thugs have no choice but to rob shop-owners?
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:01am
    - 4077th
      
      Not what I was saying but I can see how you might come to that conclusion. Given the opportunity, I would happily join the dairy owner/s in exacting some thug like justice on the perpetrators. The thug perpetrators are wholly responsible for the robberies, there would be less if ciggs were not a commodity item created by excessive excise taxes.
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:18am
  - wiseowl
    
    Interesting suggestion in Australia.
    They are having the same issue with tax on legal tobacco.
    Keep raising tax 25% each year until it is $11 billion on a pack.
    The last man smoking pays the $11 billion and government pays off deficit.
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:40am
- VicParking
  
  According to Ron Mark if the dairy owners take up smoking it will reduce their stress.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:36am
- KevOB
  
  The real problem is forcing up the price of cigarettes etc. They wanted decreased consumption but nicotine addiction rules. It’s now profitable enough to take the risks of robbery to meet that demand. The appeal of the increased excise tax outran sound analysis of the consequences.
  
  A dilemma: no government can tolerate a self armed shopkeeper vigilante community or tolerate reducing an excessive excise tax.
  
  I believe further increases are scheduled. I know elderly on fixed incomes severely distressed by the increased taxes. These fall mainly on the poorer and many on fixed incomes. They are punitive for addicts. The Maori Party who promoted them for health reasons may have just launched a crime wave through excessive zeal.
  
  Disclosure: I have never smoked.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:42am
- mara
  
  Not all Indians are meek and helpless. A couple of years ago I asked the local grog shop attendant, an old woman, if she was frightened of robbers. Quick as a flash she produced a metre long sabre from under the counter and assured me she would kill them. I believed her. She puts the young men to shame.
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:06am
  - MCos
    
    I’m told a handsaw is very effective or a water pistol filled with turps aimed at the eyes.
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:28am
- cmm
  
  The problem is caused by two types of government interference:
  
  1) Huge taxataion that makes tobacco robbery highly desirable.
  2) Making it almost illegal for people to defend themselves.
  
  Thus we have created a situation with huge incentives to commit crime with very little negative consequences.
  
  A problem caused by government interference is unlikely to be solved by MORE government interference. And money won’t fix the problem either.
  
  The first step to sort this is to allow people to defend themselves better. I’m not talking about dairy owners keeping shotguns under the counter – just a pepper spray would do for starters.
  
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  June 1, 2017 10:59am
  - MCos
    
    I’m sure there are all manner of legal, but expensive steps shop owners can take; otherwise the robbers would cut out the middle man and rob the banks instead.
    Of course there’s tons of profit in banking so the buggers can afford top notch security; dairies can not.
    
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    June 1, 2017 4:58pm
krazykiwi

Ignoring WoO, love this quote from Prof Happer, Trump’s likely pick as science advisor: “I don’t see a whole lot of difference between the consensus on climate change and the consensus on witches” 🙂
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June 1, 2017 8:05am
- Gruffydd
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Yip.
  Emeritus professor Will Happer.
  A paid lobbyist for the coal industry .
  https://www.desmogblog.com/william-happer
  Amazing what bullshit money can buy .
  
  You lot are like six year olds hiding under the blanket because something frightens you.
  
  To scared to admit reality.
  Poor little deluded wingnuts .
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:31am
  - krazykiwi
    
    There’s little to be frightened of Gruffydd. The earth is in great shape, as historically unprecedented quantities of cheap, reliable energy improve our security, health, education, and food supplies.
    
    Stop believing the doomsayers. They are, for the most part, lying… and it’s just not good for you.
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:44am
    - SGA
      
      The earth is in great shape, as historically unprecedented quantities of cheap, reliable energy improve our security, health, education, and food supplies.
      
      It is true that cheap, reliable energy greatly enhances our lives. But that doesn’t address whether or not some of that energy production comes at significant long-term cost, does it?
      I’m not trying to debate climate change, I just can’t follow your logic.
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:02am
      - cmm
        
        If there was long term cost then the environment would be surely getting worse.
        
        But no, it is getting better in areas with high energy usage (eg. the West). Water quality around major cities is improving (eg. Thames). So is air quality.
        
        One area where this is not happening is Africa. If you stop people burning coal and oil there, then they will chop down trees for their cooking fires instead – hence huge deforestation in many areas of the third world.
        
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        June 1, 2017 11:04am
      - SGA
        
        and China?
        
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        June 1, 2017 11:30am
    - Gruffydd
      
      Thats all you have krazy.
      Every major scientific body on the planet is lying to us.
      Gibbering conspiracy nonsense.
      You reject science.
      You will be quoting genesis and claiming the earth is 6,000 years old next.
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:28am
      - Dafixeruppa
        
        Actually, you exaggerate somewhat when you say “Every major scientific body on the planet”.
        A better reference would actually be, Only those scientific bodies that support climate change are able to get press time in the MSM, so it appears that “Every major scientific body on the planet” is supporting climate change.
        Unfortunately for any climate change denier that has evidence or proof that the climate change conspiracy is alive, is refused press time and then suppressed by the huge climate change industry that has grown up.
        Just like Greenpeace, it has nothing to do with protecting the climate, it is all about MONEY.
        So the irony is that those of you that decry capitalism and scream “What about the planet” are actually rather hypocritical.
        
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        June 1, 2017 9:50am
      - SGA
        
        So the irony is that those of you that decry capitalism and scream “What about the planet” are actually rather hypocritical.
        
        Again, I can’t follow the logic here – I’d like to think that capitalism and some concern about the environment aren’t mutually exclusive. Are they?
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:00am
      - Gruffydd
        
        Dafixeruppa
        Feel free to link to a single scientific body that rejects climate science.
        I can list over one hundred including most national science body’s.
        Else you are just pulling facts out your arse.
        as such your comment can be put down to an over active imagination.
        
        So the irony is that those of you that decry capitalism and scream “What about the planet” are actually rather hypocritical.
        
        Love it when a logically challenged person makes up a straw man and then demolishes it .
        Its cute in a look at the retard kind of way….
        Griff is a member of the Act party.
        The most supportive political party in New Zealand towards capitalistic Acts among consenting adults.
        
        Try again sonny I have missed laughing at idiots..
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:02am
      - SGA
        
        Only those scientific bodies that support climate change are able to get press time in the MSM, so it appears that “Every major scientific body on the planet” is supporting climate change.
        
        It does appear that the vast majority of reputable scientific bodies support climate change (Griff used to post an exhaustive, scroll-destroying list from time to time). If one buys into the “vast international conspiracy of scientists to gouge money from the system” line of thought, then that’s neither here nor there, of course.
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:07am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @SGA
        
        I don’t think Capitalism and good stewardship of resources are necessarily incompatible, but many powerful people do.
        http://www.azquotes.com/public/picture_quotes/f7/55/f7555f004653e35d23bc13026bf4c450/christiana-figueres-1067296.jpg
        
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        June 1, 2017 12:13pm
  - SGA
    
    The Welsh Gruffydd is the origin of the Anglicised name Griffith, isn’t it?
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:11am
    - kowtow
      
      Yeah , is this the re incarnation of our alarmist Griff?
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:23am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I think it was “wingnut”….and
      “to scared to admit reality”
      that were big clues today…
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:23am
      - Gruffydd
        
        Poor little gullible Maggy.
        Posts a link to Tony Hellas blog clamming the temperature record is a fraud. The video in your link shows two graphs of temperature claiming they had deleted the highs of the thirtys
        So easy mislead when you have the critical thinking skills of a toddler.
        The graphs show in that link are the world’s temperature and USA’s
        They are different.
        Who would have thought?
        Any one with half an clue.
        
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        June 1, 2017 9:45am
  - Inandout
    
    What’s wrong with coal? It is wonderfully abundant and despite what doomsayers spout, it can be burned cleanly. What the Greens desire is a world without any fossil fuels; they are barking mad.
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:27am
- stephieboy
  
  krazykiwi , another who supports the banning of teaching evolution in schools ?
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:53am
  - SGA
    
    Your tangential insults can get very tiresome, ya’ know.
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:16am
  - Fleet_
    
    Why should you support the teaching of a fundamentally flawed theory begin taught in schools?
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:59am
B.L.Zeebub

Don`t you Covfefe my Fefe.
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June 1, 2017 8:05am
- Dafixeruppa
  
  Lovers gonna love and haters gonna covfefe
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:07am
  - All_on_Red
    
    #Covfefe walks among us,his ancient spirit awakened from the pyramids…
    His arrival was foretold in an ancient mural.
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBI45JmXUAA8I1u?format=jpg&name=large
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:24am
krazykiwi

80 killed in truck bomb in Kabul. Utterly tragic. Those Buddhists again. Obviously.
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June 1, 2017 8:07am
- Dafixeruppa
  
  Yes it is sad that Muslims are killing Muslims. In fact it is sad when any act of terrorism occurs and innocents are killed irrespective of their beliefs.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:08am
  - cmm
    
    Still the white man’s fault if you join the dots the right way.
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:13am
  - KevOB
    
    The Sunni/Shia wars go back to the death of the Muhammad in AD 632. The issue is over succession. Each line claims to be the true one and the others untrue so subject to death.
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:48am
- Huevon
  
  Yes, a reminder that if we let enough of them in, not only will they try to kill us but they also kill each other.
  
  I’ve said it before…the only thing Muslims bring that benefits NZ are kebab shops. I can live without kebabs.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:17am
  - cmm
    
    “I’ve said it before…the only thing Muslims bring that benefits NZ are kebab shops. I can live without kebabs.”
    
    You can still have your kebabs without Muslims.
    
    There are plenty of Coptic Christians who can make a great kebab. Pork kebabs too!
    
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    June 1, 2017 3:15pm
- stephieboy
  
  krazykiwi , they did not have much regard for the 90 or so Muslims . Obviously .
  
  The only good Muslim is a dead one ?
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:56am
Chuck Bird

Another good post from Alan Duff. It is good he is planning on returning home.

Alan Duff: Encourage children’s dreams

Poor parenting is a big part of the problem. We have to address that urgently. Yes, an awful lot of brown-skinned kids go to school hungry. The same lot are hungry for love, too. And encouragement, hearing positive talk, not screamed at, not hit, not whacked. But told daily he/she is a star.

Easy to say this from France; so coming home for good soon. No invoice book in the back pocket; do-ies not huis.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11865537
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June 1, 2017 8:07am
mikenmild

Happy World Milk Day everyone:
https://fonterra.shuttlerock.com/world-milk-day#/boards/fonterra-world-milk-day-2017
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June 1, 2017 8:08am
- krazykiwi
  
  Happy milky day, milky 🙂
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:11am
- VicParking
  
  Is that real Milk or artifical Milk day
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:38am
duggledog

Anybody want to guess what the discourse is going to be between Tillerson and Our Bill?

I’m guessing 2 things: Spend more money on regional security, and what’s with all this Chinese fellation?

Next year’s budget might be a doozy. Guns and ships are expensive. If I were Tillerson I’d be saying three words: Choose A Side.
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June 1, 2017 8:09am
- MCos
  
  Fortunately you’re not Tillerson.
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:32am
  - stephieboy
    
    Nor Bill !
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:57am
- noskire
  
  My guess is that Tillerson is out to smooth some ruffled feathers after POTUS was a bit loose with his lips on info gleaned from the 5 Eyes.
  
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  June 1, 2017 6:10pm
oldpark

Another self inflicted problem for Angry Andy Little, or Mr 7% has arisen . Fresh from rubbishing Earl Hagaman and his comments on his donation to National Party of $100,000 . Rumour has it doing the rounds of Wellington political circles, the ex NZ High Court judge called “Smellie”who has just donated $100,000 to the joined at the hip Lie-bour/Green Party,now wants ,bearing in mind just a rumour,has given Angry Andy Little ,a huge dilemma, should he take the donation, as the donor wants “naming rights”, for the joined at the hip parties to be called “Smellie Liebour/Green Parties.”
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June 1, 2017 8:11am
- Paulus
  
  Heard it was actually $150,000.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:17am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    He had previously donated $15,000 to Labour a couple of months prior to the $100k one.
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:30am
- sam green
  
  Essentially oldpark you are resorting to giggling about people’s names and making childish taunts. Silly old fella.
  
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  June 1, 2017 1:21pm
- Gabby
  
  Oldfart National has a ring to it. Care to donate?
  
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  June 1, 2017 6:09pm
Biscuit

William got in first?

Bring back pdm (as yesterday)!
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June 1, 2017 8:12am
- pdm
  
  Hell I just had to uptick this one Biscuit.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:26am
Tauhei Notts

It was fifty years ago today,
Sergeant Pepper told the band to play.
…….
And so was born my favourite L.P.
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June 1, 2017 8:13am
- Biscuit
  
  Wow, TN, you make me feel o-l-d…
  
  50 years ago today I was a bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, fifteen-and-a-bit year old who had – maybe TMI for you – not just lost my v but thrown it away with great force.
  
  It makes you think, though.
  
  Sgt Peppers, yep, is one of the great records. Apart from, say, a Queen album, a Dire Straits one and one by REM I doubt I can think of anything in the same class that’s been released since.
  
  Oasis, remember, were gonna be the greatest band of all time. Ha! And MJ, eg, left me cold, same as every rapper that ever existed. And don’t start me on all those cutesy all-boy or all-girl bands…
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:29am
  - noskire
    
    Genesis had a few good albums before Phil Collins took over the mic – Selling England By The Pound springs to mind.
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:26am
  - Longknives
    
    All subjective of course- But I ‘like’ Sergeant Peppers without ‘loving ‘ it.
    In my opinion Abbey Road, Revolver and White Album are better works..
    “I can think of anything in the same class that’s been released since.”
    No love for the ‘Stones Biscuit? Sticky Fingers or Exile??
    Pink Floyd? Dark Side or Wish You Were Here perhaps?
    
    We could argue all day (I’m happy to actually as still off work!) but I agree 100% regarding Hip Hop/Rap bullshit.
    As Ray Charles said- “I don’t know what to call it but it ain’t music..”
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:38am
    - Kimbo
      
      @ noskire & Longknives
      
      Genesis had a few good albums before Phil Collins took over the mic – Selling England By The Pound springs to mind.
      
      Pink Floyd? Dark Side or Wish You Were Here perhaps?
      
      Nooooooooo!!!!! Boring Prog Rock over-produced crap! Peter Gabriel?! Roger Waters?! Pretentious farts!! (next you’ll be mentioning Emerson Lake and Palmer, Jethro Tull or Rick Wakeman!!) I speak as a refugee from too many Westie parties so I’ve paid the price of my opinions with pain! 😉
      
      Instead, The Clash’s London Calling, including iconic album cover, is the must-have in every music collection.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Calling
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:52am
      - Longknives
        
        Agreed- London Calling is a cracker of an album Kimbo!
        Any love for Never Mind the Bollocks? It’s 40 years old now and still blows my mind!…Never believed that Malcolm McLaren shit about how they couldn’t play their instruments- You can’t fluke an album that good…
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:03am
      - Kimbo
        
        In its own way, it was as “influential” as Sgt Peppers or Nirvana’s Nevermind, so, leaving aside the musical “imperfections” (the Pistols while the still had Glen Matlock were not as devoid of musical merit as their critics and McLaren suggested)
        
        yes. Agreed.
        
        And even though what they did after 1971 became bloated, Led Zep’s fourth album was genius, even with Stairway to Heaven now being a cliche. Contrary to accepted tradition is is not “Led Zeppelin IV”. Instead it is untitled, as Jimmy Page was pissed off with the negative press they got for the folk influences on their third album, and also the allegation the band was all hype. So they put it out without a title, or even the band’s name on the cover, or, as per Led Zep management strategy, by releasing any singles from the album. And it still sold by the bucketload.
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:08am
      - Gruffydd
        
        Nirvana’s.
        MTV Unplugged in New York.
        Range depth and power.
        It talks exceptional talent to make a Bowie cover better than the original.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fregObNcHC8
        Best rock album ever.
        Purely subjective Mileage may differ.
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:19am
      - 4077th
        
        I had a similar upbringing in the west Kimbo. Depending on the circle of friends at the party it could be, Peter Frampton, ZZ Top, Jimi Hendrix, ACDC or The Ramones, The Cure, Sex Pistols or Genesis, Alan Parsons, Yello and Pink Floyd. Wide and varied tastes us Westie’s. Much of that I can’t be bothered with these days but I have a surprising like for a lot of modern EDM. I am over 50 and this does concern my children 🙂 I only have 1 black teeshirt BTW and I only wear it in the right company.
        
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        June 1, 2017 11:05am
      - Longknives
        
        Kimbo- Just heard this ‘Prog’ Classic on the Radio and thought I’d better share the love-
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBQalkIeE7s
        
        *Ties in nicely with our Beatles discussion as well…
        
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        June 1, 2017 2:50pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Yes, just caught it too. I have to confess, ELO have become a guilty pleasure of mine lately, especially Livin’ Thing. The problem with Prog Rock was not the lack of musicianship, but more the propensity for over-indulgence, and a fawning following who did not want to acknowledge those occasions when the emperor had no clothes. But when it was done well, it was a worthwhile and good, sometimes even inspiring genre…
        
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        June 1, 2017 3:03pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        If you are ever up here tune into heads FM Mangawai.
        Proudly playing songs never heard on the radio.
        The electic play list for this day.
        http://onlineradiobox.com/nz/heads1064/playlist/
        The Troggs to Moby.
        It has learnerised me that what I though were huge differences between genres in my youth are just textures in the same old Rock.
        
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        June 1, 2017 3:31pm
      - Keeping Stock
        
        Here’s my favourite version of London Calling; Joe Strummer playing live with The Pogues at the Town & Country Club in London on St Paddy’s Day 1988:
        
        https://youtu.be/IL9hDmoxkiA
        
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        June 1, 2017 4:57pm
    - Biscuit
      
      Longknives, it’s strange how you ‘polarise’ yourself, isn’t it?
      
      I was always a Beatles boy. Never had much time for the Stones.
      Coke over Pepsi.
      Blue over Red.
      Liverpool, though, over (spit!) Everton…
      
      Hope your ‘off work’ isn’t anything major…
      
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      June 1, 2017 10:16am
      - Longknives
        
        Sorry Kimbo I went to reply to your Led Zep post and accidentally ‘Reported’ you!
        *Sorry if you get banned…
        
        Anyway- Led Zep 4 is a great album but I equally like the mighty Led Zep 2! And am I the only person with any love for In Through the Out Door? ‘In the Evening’, ‘Fool in the Rain’ etc?
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:33am
      - Kimbo
        
        Good stuff. But the live double album, and accompanying movie The Song Remains the same were crap.
        
        No problem reporting me – dissing Led Zep is grounds for being hauled before the West Auckland cultural standards tribunal to answer charges of treason 😉
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:38am
      - Longknives
        
        Cheers Biscuit! I was pretty crook for a while but I’m on the mend and I’m definitely going to pull through- My good mate Stephieboy will be hugely relieved!
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:53am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    I imagine your kaleidoscope eyes are alluring.
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:07am
- wiseowl
  
  Ditto.
  Did you ever work out the bit at the end where the needle kept playing.?
  
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  June 1, 2017 10:51am
Paulus

Happy Hate Trump Day – June 1st should be renamed.
I have to laugh at the US so called Washington politicians tearing each other apart looking for the Russian Bear.
Five enquiries and nothing leaked to the papers ?
It is sad that a once great country, according to the Washington Post and The New York Herald, are spending a fortune trying to get rid of the Democratically elected President because he is not one of them.
Lies appear to be at every turn – good media – a bit like New Zealand so called media who are collapsing because we are tired of their made up articles invariably obtained from overseas sources – look at how the Herald take their articles from the above papers.
No wonder the rest of the World is watching the next episode with a beer in their hands.
Russia, China, the new German EC and many others are saying to themselves – what a pack of very rich dicks who hypocritically think they are the answer to the World.
In the US remember nothing matters but Money..
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June 1, 2017 8:14am
- oldpark
  
  Not forgetting the so called “white supremacist terrorist”, who the fake news world MSM ,went berserk over ,when he murdered two men who went to the aid of two muslim women,who were being verbally abused. It was all blamed on President Trump. Now the fake news fakers, have been told the so called Republican ,who the MSM falsely went berserk over,has turned out to be a “GREENIE”.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:35am
  - kowtow
    
    Talking of murder, mayhem and the media , it doesn’t surprise me that this cop killer got relatively little cover……
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/28/eight-dead-suspect-custody-mississippi-shooting
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:28am
    - stephieboy
      
      kowtow , no because the news the President is poised to pull out of the climate accord takes precedence .
      
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      June 1, 2017 10:01am
  - stephieboy
    
    oldpark , his anti Muslim bashing chanting ,grunts and rants must of been music to your ears !
    
    Care to give it a try here ?
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:00am
- KevOB
  
  There are unsourced hit pieces appearing daily on Stuff denouncing Trump. They seem out of context as though somebody is pulling global strings requiring that propaganda and dissension.
  News ownership may have become too concentrated. There is no 4th Estate.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:55am
Maggy Wassilieff

Trees are social creatures that mother their young, talk to each other, experience pain, remember things and have sex with each other
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/31/trees-talk-have-sex-look-after-young-peter-wohlleben-hay-festival
Time for you good folks to reflect on whether you have been caring for the needs of your ligneous neighbours.
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June 1, 2017 8:16am
- krazykiwi
  
  I have fornicating Pohutukawas on my property. Bloody saplings. Didn’t they learn anything at sex ed? 🙂
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:27am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Don’t look closely at baby manuka….
    What some 1 year-olds get-up to with the local wildlife is not for general dissemination.
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:58am
  - Biscuit
    
    ‘Fornicating Pohutukawas’ sounds like a phrase that all prospective immigrants need to learn to pronounce correctly before being granted entry to Eh-Oh-tee-uh-rower!
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:01am
waikatogirl

Flight out of Melbourne overnight, had to soon return to the airport after a Malaysian “nutter” attempted to gain access to the cockpit while claiming he had a bomb. Flight attendants and passengers tried to subdue him, a chase occurred through the plane ending with the “nutter” being tackled by passengers, subdued, restrained with cable ties, and was finally stood on to keep him down. Returning to Melbourne airport with the bomb being cradled gently the plane was isolated and treated as explosive before it was discovered the bomb was fake.
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June 1, 2017 8:24am
- krazykiwi
  
  Have to feel sorry for Malaysian Airlines. They’ve had more than their fair share of troubles.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:27am
- SGA
  
  From the reports I’ve read, “nutter” seems an accurate description and those on the flight don’t seem to have taken his “bomb” threat overly seriously.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:43am
  - Paulus
    
    Understand he was a Sri Lanka and was drunk – in Ramadan ?
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:58am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      If he was Sri Lankan, then a 90% chance he was not observing Ramadan.
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:07am
    - RalphT
      
      Most Sri Lankans (about 70%) are Buddhists (yes, I know that they are big time terrorists), with Muslims making up only about 10%, so it’s unlikely this man was in any way concerned about Ramadan.
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:07am
      - SGA
        
        The other 20% are Hindu (Tamils largely, I think).
        
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        June 1, 2017 9:14am
Keeping Stock

When Parliament resumes today, Phil Twyford needs to take a call and correct the porkie he told yesterday (either in error, or by design). Twyford’s speech in the Budget debate began thus:

PHIL TWYFORD (Labour—Te Atatū): The reason that this Budget misses the mark so badly is that it gives MPs $1,000 a week extra in their pocket, but it does nothing for the housing crisis.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20170531_20170531_08

Of course, the Budget does nothing of the sort. MP’s, like anyone else earning a reasonable salary, will pay around $20/week less in tax, or have around $1000 per YEAR more in the pocket.

Twyford needs to admit he was wrong and correct his statement, lest we think of him as having only a casual relationship with the truth 😎
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June 1, 2017 8:28am
- Biscuit
  
  Twyford LIES?
  
  Why was I not told!
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:32am
  - G152
    
    Now it becomes apparent as to why I call them ‘liebor’
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:46am
  - VicParking
    
    Because you email system would jam up
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:32am
- Happychappy
  
  You can’t put fact or substancein in a lazy induviduals brain when the media and the Labour Party expect to hold others to account but believe they are exempt from the same ethics.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:57am
Hugh Pavletich

HAPPY 70th BIRTHDAY LEVITTOWN … 1947 MODERN SUBURBIA IS BORN’

… Re-learning important recent history … the hard and costly way …

… Housing should not cost more than 3.0 times annual household incomes with sensible mortgage loads of about 2.5 times … thanks to entrepreneurs Bill and Alfred Levitt …

… Do today’s young deserve hope too ? …

Levittown history in photos | Newsday
… google search title if blocked …

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/levittown-history-in-photos-1.13458781#1

In 1947, William Levitt of Levitt & Sons began building mass-produced, affordable housing for veterans returning from WWII. Island Trees, or Levittown as it later became known, is widely recognized as the first modern American suburb. Families started moving into the new homes on Oct. 1, 1947.

The area that would become Levittown was formerly a series of potato fields on the Hempstead Plains that were affected by the Golden Nematode, an insect from Europe that destroyed much of the crops at the time. Levitt bought the land for a reduced price and eventually built more than 17,700 homes on the land by utilizing elements borrowed from Henry Ford’s assembly line process. The homes, which sold for just $7,990, included appliances and an expandable attic.

Return to Levittown: a suburban dream turns 60 – BBC News

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-15598511

Levittown Classic Movies Presents: Our Home Town … Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4nKlMsyQ0

William Levitt – Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Levitt
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June 1, 2017 8:37am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  RBNZ dissects NZ housing bubble -Leith van Onselen – MacroBusiness Australia
  
  https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/05/rbnz-dissects-nz-housing-bubble/
  
  Pavletich comment on thread …
  
  SUPPLY STARVED MARKETS BUBBLES DO BURST TOO …
  
  Soon after the Global Financial Crisis occurred 07 / 08, March 2010 I wrote about the contrasting performances of Texas and California with regard to jumbo loans and building stock per 1000 population …
  
  Housing Bubbles: Jumbo Mortgages = Jumbo Problems | Scoop News
  
  http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO1003/S00019.htm
  
  At that stage California on an adjusted population basis had a million less residential units in comparison with Texas.
  
  It’s way worse now.
  
  It was the supply starved and grossly over-indebted California housing market where the bubble burst that triggered the Global Financial Crisis.
  
  Adequately supplied Texas DID NOT have a bubble to burst. Note the contrasting lending within my article above.
  
  December 2007 Herb Greenberg wrote for Marketwatch as well …
  
  Straight Talk on the Mortgage Mess from an Insider – Herb Greenberg – MarketWatch
  
  http://blogs.marketwatch.com/greenberg/2007/12/straight-talk-on-the-mortgage-mess-from-an-insider/
  
  As the Annual Demographia International Surveys show year after year (13 to date )…
  
  http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf
  
  … house prices in normal markets do not exceed about 3.0 times annual household income … requiring sensible mortgage loads of about 2.5 times.
  
  Why do they always need to learn this lesson the hard way ?
  
  Subsequent research by the Central Bank of Ireland found that it was excessive debt to income that was a far greater problem that high loan to value ratios … and generally capped mortgages at 3.5 times annual household incomes.
  
  The Bank of England had earlier capped at 4.5 times.
  
  The Irish average Median Multiple for its metros peaked at 4.7 and it crashed to 2.8. Australia is currently 5.5 and NZ 5.9.
  
  All Irelands Banks went to the wall … requiring a bailout of in excess of 70 billion euros. It is still mortgage mayhem there because of Ireland’s draconian debtor laws.
  
  Our housing bubbles are way worse than the Irish one.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:39am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    NATIONAL’S ODDBALL KIWIBUILD PANIC POLICY … WHERE ARE THE AFFORDABLE HOMES AMY ADAMS … WHEN THE GOVERNMENT FIGURES OUT WHAT AN AFFORDABLE HOUSE IS ?
    
    THE LEVITTS (SEE ABOVE) HAD IT FIGURED OUT 70 YEARS AGO … BUT THEY WERE DOERS … NOT POLITICAL WINDBAGS …
    
    Adams defends govt’s Auckland house building programme as doing what it can on 5% of land, says onus is on private land-owners; Labour’s Twyford attacks National’s credibility on number of ‘affordable’ homes to be built | interest.co.nz
    
    https://www.interest.co.nz/property/88048/adams-defends-govts-auckland-house-building-programme-doing-what-it-can-5-land-says
    
    Amy Adams has defended levels of building under the government’s Auckland Housing Plan, saying the onus is with private property owners in the city to lead the way on increasing the supply of affordable housing there.
    
    Responding to questions from Labour housing spokesman Phil Twyford in Parliament Wednesday, Adams, Minister for Housing New Zealand and Social Housing, said the government was playing its part with building announcements regarding the 5% of Auckland land it owned.
    
    Adams said between 4,500 and 10,000 of the planned houses would be sold into the ‘affordable’ market, defined as being less than $650,000. She added that a further 16,000 houses would be sold into the ‘market’, while 13,500 new social housing units would be built. … read more via hyperlink above …
    .
    .
    New Zealand’s housing consensus: Where is the political leadership … Hugh Pavletich … Not PC blog
    
    http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2017/01/auckland-worlds-fourth-hardest-to-buy.html
    .
    Watch & Weep … Joh n Key – Housing Reform – 2007
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWPgoAI1cLE
    
    https://www.google.co.nz/?gws_rd=ssl#q=john+key+housing+reform+2007&spf=1496268175770
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:11am
    - Hugh Pavletich
      
      Reserve Bank’s Auckland house price correction warning: Why 5% is an important threshold for stressed, highly leveraged home-owners; And why the RBNZ needs that DTI tool | interest.co.nz
      
      https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/88049/reserve-banks-auckland-house-price-correction-warning-why-5-important-threshold
      
      By Alex Tarrant
      
      “The marginal transaction sets the price of the stock.”
      
      Reserve Bank Governor Graeme Wheeler on why he and his officials are so concerned about the prospect of an Auckland house price correction, particularly as interest rates rise.
      
      The Bank on Wednesday warned 5% of existing Auckland borrowers would be expected to face severe stress if mortgage rates were 7%.
      
      It may seem low, but that 5% mark is important.
      
      Deputy Governor Grant Spencer told Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Select Committee Wednesday that 5% and above could be where we start to experience systemic effects. … read more via hyperlink above …
      
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      June 1, 2017 11:43am
      - dirty harry
        
        But but but…
        
        http://www.msn.com/en-au/money/homeandproperty/john-mcgrath-says-property-bubble-crash-not-going-to-happen
        
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        June 1, 2017 2:54pm
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    NZ Government bemoans supply problem it helped create – MacroBusiness Australia
    
    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/06/nz-government-bemoans-supply-problem-helped-create/
    
    By Leith van Onselen
    
    New Zealand’s National Government remains under siege for failing to solve Auckland’s housing crisis by promising to boost supply.
    
    Yesterday in Parliament, Labour housing spokesman, Phil Twyford, attacked the Government’s credibility, leading to Minister for Social Housing, Amy Adams, effectively blaming private developers. From Interest.co.nz:
    
    Amy Adams has defended levels of building under the government’s Auckland Housing Plan, saying the onus is with private property owners in the city to lead the way on increasing the supply of affordable housing there.
    
    Responding to questions from Labour housing spokesman Phil Twyford in Parliament Wednesday, Adams, Minister for Housing New Zealand and Social Housing, said the government was playing its part with building announcements regarding the 5% of Auckland land it owned… … read more via hyperlink above …
    
    Australia Must Fix Its ‘Spectacular Housing Bubble’: Citi warns … Bloomberg
    
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-31/australia-must-fix-its-spectacular-housing-bubble-citi-warns
    
    Home loan fraud subject to special ASIC inquiry into mortgage approvals … Australian Broadcasting Corporation
    
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-01/home-loan-fraud-subject-to-special-asic-inquiry/8578392?pfmredir=sm
    
    … check out too … bubble days drawing to a close …
    
    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/
    
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    June 1, 2017 4:29pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      That’s nice Hugh. Got anything new to share?
      
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      June 1, 2017 4:42pm
DifferentPerspective

Where’s the outrage for the other Katie?

After the blistering attack on Katie Hopkins calling for her resignation – I expected the same balance from our esteemed host for the even uglier act by that Leftist ~~alleged~~ comedienne Kathy Griffin holding a bloodied head of Trump?

But no! Deafening silence? Really – implying a sitting President should be assassinated in ISIS-style fashion – is not as horrible as one little tweet?

So Islamist-style beheadings of heads of state are OK but suggesting it’s bad to ‘blow up little girls for Allah’ and that we need to fix the problem forever is beyond the pale?

If Katie H’s tweet was bad, KG’s was unconscionable. If KH deserves a criticism, then so does KG.

The Left will downplay this in their usual fashion.

Reasonable voices need to point out that what is good for the goose is good for the gander!
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June 1, 2017 8:45am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I pointed out last night the following:
  204 comments on KB about Katie Hopkins 4 days ago
  
  only a dozen yesterday about Kathy Griffin.
  http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/05/general_debate_31_may_2017.html#comment-1940834
  
  Very conspicuous those who are MIA
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:31am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Time to move on from her idiotic alt right comments .
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:06am
    - DifferentPerspective
      
      Bait and switch eh SB?
      
      Still, much cleverer than your usual strategy of parroting “Evidence”, “Examples”, “Such as” or ~~“Who’s a pretty boy then?”~~.
      
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      June 1, 2017 3:41pm
  - B.L.Zeebub
    
    While the severed head is offensive,it is no where near as offensive as the old boiler flashing her snatch a while back.
    
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    June 1, 2017 11:01am
VicParking

The Government is to make the Military Smoke free.
You would say that it is a policy very hard to criticise. Not for NZ First.
Ron Mark: Smoking reduces stress and should be incouraged.
Winnie: We send our boys overseas to die so we should at least let them have a smoke first.
So says the next Deputy Prime Minister/ Minister of foreign Affairs.
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June 1, 2017 8:47am
- KevOB
  
  Abandon commonsense all ye who enter here. How have the snowflakes captured our military? Are the forces to be supplied with Bach Flower remedies to calm them before battle?
  Time to get the mercenaries.
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:08am
  - kowtow
    
    “Time to get the mercenaries.”
    
    Control freaks made that a crime some time ago.
    
    “A new law makes it an offence to recruit, use, finance or train mercenaries.
    
    The Mercenary Activities (Prohibition) Bill also makes it an offence to take part in a war, or an act of violence, as a mercenary.
    
    Justice Minister Phil Goff said all the offences would be punishable by up to 14 years’ imprisonment and New Zealanders could be prosecuted in New Zealand for acts committed overseas.
    
    The legislation will allow New Zealand to accede to an international convention which has been in force since 2001.”
    
    Is this another example of how we are coming to be ruled by the UN?
    
    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3576038
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:33am
    - KevOB
      
      Maybe so, but I wouldn’t the female commander at the top who appeared on TV the other night anywhere near hostilities. Is there to be surgical sterilisation of our troops too so the mixed forces are more congenial?
      There does seem to be some inherent differences by sex typing between regularly gendered human beings.
      
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      June 1, 2017 1:02pm
- kowtow
  
  “Acting Canterbury district road policing manager Senior Sergeant Kelly Larsen said police were keen to prevent a repeat of the incident. She had spoken to the manager of Parks and planned to meet with him.”
  
  The incident Plod should be keen to prevent is how the crash driver “missed” an intersection. What’s more dangerous a truckie taking what was probably a well earned food break or adriver who apparently can’t control his car?
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:08am
- kowtow
  
  “You would say that it is a policy very hard to criticise.”
  
  Bullshit.
  
  It’s pathetic control freakery.
  
  What’s next ?
  
  But of course stick it to Ron Mark/ NZF for guaranteed upticks.
  
  You Ngati Notionals may want to light up to relieve your stress if come the election results the evil dwarf is king maker to Bill , hahahahahaha.
  
  And yes how utterly ridiculous , we give these people guns to kill others in our name but would deny them a ciggie. FFS!
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:13am
  - VicParking
    
    I did not say it was good policy, I said it was hard to criticise. Thats because if you supported it you would be told you are “control freak” (Kowtow) and if you were against it the health nuts would rise up and twitter you to death.
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:38am
rightoverlabour

Can somebody explain why this is an issue?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/93180065/outrage-after-crash-victims-car-taken-to-canterbury-mcdonalds-on-a-tow-truck

I can understand if it was the hearse, but this is ultimately just a wrecked car on a truck.
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June 1, 2017 8:49am
- Lance
  
  Because it’s the day and age of permanent outrage
  If these people aren’t outraged at any particular moment, they will desperately search for something to be outraged at and then voice it far and wide across social media.
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:04am
  - jonar
    
    Sounds like commenters at KB…
    
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    June 1, 2017 11:58am
- simpleton1
  
  All this upset, and yet the family has a dead member.
  That is a great reminder to all drivers to be careful, and they could get it wrong. This is a real message left by the deceased.
  
  That is what the police has been pushing for years, in their comments and adverts.
  “speed, death; drink, death; overtaking, death; wet roads, death; etc.”
  How much does all that cost?
  What was dangerous?
  
  “In the midst of life there is death”
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:12am
- VicParking
  
  Of course putting a picture of the car in the paper was ok? Naming the person, their age and the location of the crash was ok?
  Taking a picture or video totally out of context and plastering on social media has become the norm.
  AKA Bill English and the haka.
  Used to be called a “Beat up” but nowdays its just an excuse to get a few more views, upticks, friends and 24hrs of fame.
  The worst is their is no “PushBack” just lots of apologies and hand wringing, “We will do better” and the standard answer “We will be looking at what measures will be put in place to stop it from happening in the future”
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:51am
  - VicParking
    
    Example: The Otago Regional Council has gone the way of many an organisation in recent times and bowed to the wishes of a lone offendee. They’ve dropped the term ‘Gypsy Day’ from their literature, not because they necessarily agree but because they know it’s not worth the hassle going up against an evangelical crusader who simply can’t help speaking on behalf of others.
    
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    June 1, 2017 4:24pm
Reid

Feminist SJW Fail Compilation – All Time Greats – 2016

(Social Justice Warrior)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1hJwz8V0zY

2 hours of all sorts of vignettes of mad hysterical lefties making complete and utter fools of themselves and getting their arse handed to them, time after time after time after time.

I think mm and stephie are both in here, try to guess which ones they are.
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June 1, 2017 8:57am
4077th

More imported vibrants..why is she surprised he turned out to be controlling and intolerant. Any possible help evaporated when she decided going to Syria for a short time and returning was a good idea. Way to get yourself on a watch list lady…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11866718
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June 1, 2017 9:06am
- kowtow
  
  “I pleaded with the Refugee Council of New Zealand, my local MP and the Immigration Minister to not let this man stay in New Zealand and I got no answers,” said the woman.
  
  Hi, we’re from the govt and we’re here to help.
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:19am
- Huevon
  
  Looks like more Magic Muslim to me…Allah-kebab-rah and he gets refugee status, which means permanent residency (we can’t get rid of him) and full access to the welfare state! And family law reverses it anti-male bias to give him half his ex’s stuff! And official authorities hands are tied! Powerful magic in the Koran! God is great, indeed.
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:25am
- Kimbo
  
  Yes, Jack5 posted that link yesterday and tried to lay the blame at the feet of the Minister of Immigration for his “ineptitude” in allowing her (former) husband to stay in the country, overlooking the fact
  
  1. She sponsored him here in the first place, despite knowing of his alleged propensity for domestic violence
  
  2. As he was allowed in the country, he was able to apply for refugee status – and, given the situation in Syria, it is hardly surprising this was granted.
  
  3. She failed to detail her attempts to get the police to enforce the alleged proetction order that was issued in response to his alleged violence.
  
  4. Not surprisingly, she is unable to withdraw her sponsorship, and avoid the possibility of potential legal and/or deportation costs by Immigration to remove him from the country if that needs to happen at some point in the future. She was, btw, advised this was the case when she sponsored him.
  
  5. She is now, unsurprisingly in the case of a marriage break-up, facing losing 50% of her assets, including her house, in the divorce settlement. So no incentive for her to embellish and/or lie to try and get him removed from the country and back to Syria where it will be difficult/impossible for him to pursue her assets through the NZ courts.
  
  6. Nonetheless, even though Kiwiblog regulars are opposed to the idea that a man must prove his innocence in the case of rape, or that the “homeless” who blame the “Government” for their predicament
  
  …Jack5 is prepared to accept every word in her anonymous claims as gospel, and has demanded that the Minister of Immigration ignore the dictates of natural justice and established legal proceedings, and over rule the primary responsibility of the police to keep her safe from alleged violence,
  
  …and cancel his refugee status and remove him from the country forthwith. Oh, yes, and if you call him out for it, he calls it “playground behaviour” and leaves and takes his bat and ball in a sulk….thus vacating the discussion about Michael Woodhouse’s alleged ineptitude that he initiated.
  
  I know people around here who in other respects exercise sound judgement most of the time, are vexed about the matter of Muslim immigrants are vexed about the issue. Is their prerogative. But is there any chance of consistency and sober judgement rather than engaging in mob hysteria?
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:30am
  - 4077th
    
    This story is nothing more than an attempt to point out the obvious without actually saying it. She is “of middle eastern origin” – without actually saying Muslim, complained about “controlling behaviour” – standard Muslim husband, wife rules and it’s now the governments fault (bring Woodhouse into the frame). She is applying western speak and values to complain about male Muslim behaviour that she imported (and willingly I might add) in a blatant attempt at a sympathy vote. She can’t have her cake and eat it too, nor can the herald.
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:06am
    - Kimbo
      
      Am intrigued you seem prepared to accept her account at face value and accept it as “fact”. If she was claiming rape at the hands of a white middle class NZ male, or she was homeless and blaming the government for her eviction from a state house…would you do the same? Just asking…
      
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      June 1, 2017 10:16am
      - 4077th
        
        @Kimbo, not accepting either her or her ex’s account of any wrong doing. My observation was more about the way the article seems deliberately framed to distance both of them from actually being Muslim. Why is that when it is very obvious? Perhaps it creates a perception? Of course it would so why bother with the pretence?
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:40am
      - Kimbo
        
        4077th Fair enough, I withdraw my implication about your values implied in my questions above and below and apologise. But why did she and the Herald pitch it as they did? Everyone who attempts to persuade others to a point-of-view needs an angle 😉
        
        But you could argue that as he was Syrian, that was relevant for establishing why his application and subsequent acceptance as a refugee was valid, whereas his religion is incidental to the matter of accusations of domestic abuse. It is a reasonable possibility he is, for example, a Christian or Druze.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Syria
        
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        June 1, 2017 10:45am
      - 4077th
        
        @Kimbo,
        
        No offence was taken at all and no apology needed but graciously accepted.
        
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        June 1, 2017 11:11am
    - Kimbo
      
      Or that as she married a Middle Eastern Muslim, and if the allegations of abuse are true, she should just suck it up…here in NZ?
      
      Sorry, I’m not the thought-crime police, and I have no desire to do so (stephieboy does enough of that, and with a trolling intent), but I’m doubly intrigued that as people seem to have made up their mind about Muslims…every potential negative example is shoe-horned to confirm that prejudice, including ditching the standard tests and values we would usually always exercise.
      
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      June 1, 2017 10:28am
  - Jack5
    
    ‘Morning Kimbo.
    
    I guess I owe you an apology.
    
    In my mind I dismissed your defence of the stalking refugee, and of the inept Immigration Minister Woodhouse, as the result of your dabbling in theology.
    
    This field of murky thought can wreck even a good mind. It’s the intellectual equivalent of taking up voodoo as a hobby.
    
    It was my prejudice against the faux intellectual, smoke and mirrors world of theology that led me to dismiss your defence of the indefencible Minister.
    
    I accept that either, first, you are an honest bleeding heart, who sees and sympathises with the plight of a horny Arab yet to fully adjust to the nuances of Western courtship. In that case you are misguided rather than muddled.
    
    Or, second, you were being ironic, even sardonic, and were setting me up, knowing full well and accepting that it is futile for a non-religious person to engage in debate with an amateur theologian. In this case, you did the job well.
    
    In case I’m wrong in this apology, here’s a theological pin head for you to engrave, Kimbo:
    
    Why aren’t Baptists allowed to have sex standing up?
    
    It might lead to dancing.
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:57am
    - Kimbo
      
      Thank you, Jack5. Despite what I consider to be the errors and false premises in your assumptions about my views (which are your prerogative to hold), I nonetheless accept your apology in the cordial spirit in which in was given, but I also correct you – it is Presbyterians, as well as Baptists.
      
      I also had another go, and answered your theological query on GD last night too, btw.
      
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      June 1, 2017 11:00am
Pateke

Happy covfefe day everyone.
I have been trying to press covfefe all morning but without much success. This is in spite of ensuring constant negative.
Any tips? I have tried to press covfefe on my keyboard but can’t find it there anywhere.
Help required
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June 1, 2017 9:08am
- kowtow
  
  Any tips?
  
  Ask Paula Bennett.
  
  4 0
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  June 1, 2017 9:16am
- SGA
  
  Damn, after that tweet they are going to have to think of a new secret launch code 🙂
  
  9 1
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  June 1, 2017 9:17am
- Biscuit
  
  Pateke, HCD to you too.
  
  I am struggling here…
  
  I dunno how to PRONOUNCE ‘covfefe’…
  
  Co-vfefe?
  Cov-fefe?
  Covfe-fe?
  
  And where are the ACCENTS placed?
  
  I am going with co-vee-fifi in the interim!
  
  Yelling that makes me sound like a French guy trying to his dog to come in behind!
  
  The only other recent word I’ve come across with an odd ‘v’ in it has been Ztev … but I have no problems pronouncing THAT!
  [My version uses the same number of letters, too.]
  
  3 1
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  June 1, 2017 9:31am
- G152
  
  A coffee might help you in your search
  
  2 0
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  June 1, 2017 9:57am
- Pateke
  
  Found it:
  I used babelfish. Covfefe is Acturian orangeic as follows
  Covfefe: noun (pl)covf (sing) Tiny fingers
  Derivation (arch) many small fingers moving fast, so fast.
  
  In a sentence: Donald pressed his covfefe together to keep his hands warm.
  
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  June 1, 2017 12:44pm
Manolo

Anyone but me is responsible, shouts crooked Hillary:
http://freebeacon.com/politics/clinton-i-take-responsibility-every-decision-but-not-why-i-lost/

Two-time failed presidential candidate Hillary Clinton on Wednesday took responsibility for all her decisions during the 2016 campaign, but then said those decisions were not why she lost.

“Look, I take responsibility for every decision I made, but that’s not why I lost, so I think it’s important that we learn the real lessons from this last campaign,” Clinton said during a question and answer session at the 2017 Code Conference.
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June 1, 2017 9:16am
- 4077th
  
  She must be the only snowflake in the world who thinks she lost.
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:25am
- KevOB
  
  Unfortunately she had a neurologist in attendance at all her appearances except when a double was used and is reported to be still coughing. She was not well, she faked her re-appearance after the collapse with a double (hand details do not match hers).
  I don’t wish her ill but her time has passed as have the opportunities to profit from office.
  
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  June 1, 2017 1:11pm
  - doggone7
    
    Was that double for Clinton or a double for the neurologist.
    And when you say her time has ‘passed’ do you mean she has passed away? And if she hasn’t passed away is that the result of divine intervention given the lunatic NZ blogdoctors had her at death’s door more than six months ago?
    
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    June 1, 2017 5:39pm
    - KevOB
      
      I know nothing of her lifespan but am aware of facial neuro problems.
      She lost, knows it and should be gone. She also has her conduct about abuse of office to answer for.
      
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      June 1, 2017 5:47pm
Maggy Wassilieff

6-year old spelling whiz
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40114902/the-six-year-old-us-spelling-maestro
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June 1, 2017 9:38am
- Manolo
  
  Brilliant. Thank you, Maggy. I shall send you my latest design.
  
  5 0
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  June 1, 2017 10:05am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Thigh-high waders would be appreciated this season.
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/68/90/58/6890588bc0afb3ea4d492c5e955d1892.jpg
    
    6 0
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    June 1, 2017 10:26am
    - Manolo
      
      Your order is my command, dear Maggy. Ciao, carissima.
      
      7 0
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      June 1, 2017 10:43am
Manolo

Griff would be devastated:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TRUMP_CLIMATE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-05-31-09-01-31

President Donald Trump is expected to withdraw the United States from a landmark global climate agreement, a White House official said Wednesday, though Trump and aides were looking for “caveats in the language” related to the exit and had not made a final decision.
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June 1, 2017 10:01am
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo, as I suggested earlier the President I understand is poised to ban the teaching of evolution in schools and make creation science compulsory .
  
  Would seem to great sense to climate deniers .
  
  Thoughts ?
  
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  June 1, 2017 10:12am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    @stephieboy
    
    Is the suggestion that the POTUS is poised to ban the teaching of evolution in schools based on your understanding alone?
    
    …… otherwise, references, please.
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:56am
  - Manolo
    
    Was that a brain fart, stephieboy? Can you quote your sources?
    
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    June 1, 2017 12:53pm
  - Reid
    
    Thoughts ?
    
    You’ve got something wrong yet again?
    
    You don’t understand punctuation?
    
    You make groundless assumptions based on profound ignorance?
    
    How many more thoughts would you like stephie?
    
    3 1
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    June 1, 2017 6:21pm
- jonar
  
  American corporate leaders have also appealed to the businessman-turned-president to stay. They include Apple, Google and Walmart. Even fossil fuel companies such as Exxon Mobil, BP and Shell say the United States should abide by the deal.
  
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  June 1, 2017 12:06pm
Manolo

Your imagination is running wild, pious stephiebpoy. Darwin’s evolution is proven undeniably correct, and creation is a fancy myth peddled by religious nutters (should I include you in that category?).

Science above all. Allahu akbar.
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June 1, 2017 10:15am
- KevOB
  
  Nonsense. Darwin cannot explain the mathematical improbabilities required. His hypothesis remains that. Some chemicals in the human body need 20-30 precursers. Other processes like the physiology and biochemistry internally to manage a simple cut are mind boggling. To say this came about randomly is itself an act of belief.
  
  Muslim prayer is deprecated in public in NZ.
  
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  June 1, 2017 1:22pm
  - Swifty
    
    Who says it came about randomly?
    
    Anyway, prove that a god did it.
    
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    June 1, 2017 5:24pm
JasonJohns

Polls show most Americans don’t worship at the church of Darwin. In a democratic state they have the right to have their kids learn Biblical science in schools. Trump and VP Pence are rightly moving towards this.
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June 1, 2017 10:25am
- Swifty
  
  Will you allow evolution science to be taught in churches?
  
  6 1
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  June 1, 2017 11:01am
  - Dafixeruppa
    
    Yes it should be. How can you argue for or against something without understanding it?
    Hence why even the devil can quote scripture
    
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    June 1, 2017 3:35pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Biblical science is an oxymoron
  
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  June 1, 2017 3:15pm
JasonJohns

MATTHEWS: I think you believe in evolution but you‘re afraid to say so because your conservative constituency might find that offensive.
PENCE: No, I‘ve said to you, Chris, I believe with all my heart that God created the heavens and the earth, the seas and all that is in them.
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June 1, 2017 10:26am
- Ed Snack
  
  I would think that probably effectively all Christians would agree with that. the disagreement would tend to come (for a minority) over the time frame and method.
  
  Most Christians I know have little trouble accepting Genesis as a metaphor and accepting the general features of Darwinian evolution. Those that believe that god granted them free will believe that anyway.
  
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  June 1, 2017 11:08am
JasonJohns

VP Pence’s view is that Biblical science should be taught in schools alongside the cult of Darwin. The Biblical view will inevitably win out, because it is truthful, and Darwinism will wither away.

PENCE: Science is an exploration of demonstrable fact, isn‘t it?
MATTHEWS: Right. Right.
PENCE: I think, in our schools, we should teach all of the facts about all of these controversial areas and let our students, let our children and our children‘s children decide based upon the facts and the science.
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June 1, 2017 10:27am
- rangitoto
  
  Why is Grimm fairy tale science not being taught. I demand my rights.
  
  10 1
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  June 1, 2017 10:31am
- stephieboy
  
  JasonJohns , so the world was created 4004 BC ?
  
  Pre Maori White Celtics too ?
  
  LOL !
  
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  June 1, 2017 10:36am
- Inandout
  
  Pretty much the Koran’s view, and 1.5 billion people believe what is in that book.
  
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  June 1, 2017 10:52am
  - stephieboy
    
    Inandout , and you pre Maori white civilisation ?
    
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    June 1, 2017 11:00am
  - JasonJohns
    
    To give the Muslims credit they are joining with Biblical America in fighting Darwinism. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/science/03islam.html They still have to take up the idea of a young earth though, in that respect they are far behind Christians.
    
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    June 1, 2017 11:03am
    - KevOB
      
      The Bible does not give 4004 BC as the commencement. That came from a cleric. The Bible can be validly read as giving God’s creation story without requiring scientific context. The account has to be for all peoples and all times.
      
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      June 1, 2017 1:29pm
      - Kimbo
        
        James Ussher, the 17th Century (Anglican) Church of Ireland Archbishop of Armagh was his name. As Ed Snack alludes elsewhere, he was denied the insights of more recent archaeology, which reveal that the creation and flood accounts, and the genealogies in Genesis 1 to 11 are deliberately imitating existing Ancient Near Eastern terminology, myths and genres, so that Israel’s distinct theology could be presented in a way and with thought-forms that were understood.
        
        So what you have in Genesis is one half of a two part discussion/debate and if you miss that, then you are far more likely to misunderstand and/or misapply it…like thinking it can be used to directly and scientifically refute Darwin and current orthodoxy regarding palaeontology, astronomy, the Big Bang, whatever…
        
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        June 1, 2017 1:40pm
      - stephieboy
        
        KevinOB , you have presented a statement of faith not scientfic evidence .
        
        Have another go .
        
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        June 1, 2017 2:46pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        To be precise Dr James Ussher calculated the beginning as 6pm, 22 Oct. 4004 BC.
        
        Interestingly, another Dr James Ussher is to be located at Otago….. looks like he might not share the views of his namesake.
        http://www.otago.ac.nz/mediaexpertise/?option=display&staff=913
        
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        June 1, 2017 3:04pm
  - SGA
    
    From the little reading I did (I was curious), practicing Muslims exhibit a similar range of responses to the creation/evolution issue as practicing Christians, but probably not in the same proportions. I’d guess that there would be other factors at play too – level of education of the individual, social climate, etc.
    
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    June 1, 2017 11:17am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      @SGA
      
      Probably correct
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_evolution
      
      But remember most folks over 30 have never been exposed to any evolutionary teaching during their school life.
      In my school days evolution was only taught in 7th-form Biology (Most of my school cohort had left school by the 5th-6th form).
      Even when I went to Teacher’s Training College in the 1990s we had our senior Biology lecturer arguing that Evolution was too complicated to introduce to pupils below Year 12 (6th form).
      
      The truth was…Don’t upset the religious …..
      keep this topic away from the masses….. the philosophy of NZ science education.
      
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      June 1, 2017 11:33am
- Swifty
  
  Biblical science is a contradiction in terms.
  
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  June 1, 2017 11:03am
  - JasonJohns
    
    Do you accept that the American people elected Trump and Pence and that the US govt now has the right to bring the Bible back into schools?
    
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    June 1, 2017 11:04am
    - rangitoto
      
      Kea – you may be familiar with this: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”
      
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      June 1, 2017 11:12am
      - Inandout
        
        Only the protection of Islam though, well at least under the Kenyan’s Presidency. But still applies under ‘sanctuary cities’.
        
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        June 1, 2017 11:38am
    - Swifty
      
      No I do not accept that they have the ‘right’ to bring the bible back in to schools.
      
      The separation of church and state is enshrined in the U.S. Constitution for a start.
      
      And you’ve got a bloody cheek to suggest using public funds to push your myths and fables. Are you too weak to stand on your own two feet? Why are you not content with families teaching the bible to children at home if that is what they wish? Why do you insist on encroaching on the public sphere. Are you comfortable with the koran being taught as the truth in schools too?
      
      Face it pal. Your time is over.
      
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      June 1, 2017 12:49pm
    - stephieboy
      
      JasonJohns , the seperation of chruch and state would preclude that .
      
      In any event bringing bible into schools would not necessarily make people more moral or kinder as Westboro Baptist reminds us .
      
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      June 1, 2017 2:49pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Not quite, biblical archeology for a start would have a sound footing.
    
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    June 1, 2017 11:14am
    - Swifty
      
      Ed – can you elaborate please?
      
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      June 1, 2017 2:24pm
      - Kimbo
        
        You didn’t ask me, but I’ll have a go, and maybe Ed Snack was alluding to something like the following: .
        
        Whether you believe it or not, the (Old and New Testament books of the) Bible is is an archaeological artefact. Sure, they are not “history” in the modern sense, but then every chronicler, both ancient and modern has an agenda, so “objectivity” is a myth…so the same applies to what we know of from other sources of, say, Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander the Great, or Nero.
        
        Nonetheless, the writings and the recorded alleged events in them took place in an Ancient Near Eastern, and then (in the New Testament) Roman Empire Mediterranean context, that archaeology has at many points verified, sometimes contradicted….just as Scripture has shed light on what archaeology is still discovering. For example, some 100 years ago
        “the Hittites” referred to in the biblical narratives concerning Abraham were dismissed as fiction….until archaeology verified their existence.
        
        As such, archaeological tools such as Carbon 14 dating, and the “archaeological method” of analysing a site are tied up with the study of the Scriptures. And why, say, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran in 1947 were so significant. Among other things, the Isaiah scroll discovered there pushed back by some 1000 years the oldest copy we have of an Old Testament text, and contrary to expectations before then, showed the process of textual transmission by the ancients was remarkably accurate.
        
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        June 1, 2017 2:51pm
      - Swifty
        
        Kimbo, so what you are suggesting is that modern science and investigation has confirmed some of the bible content as correct – as well as proving false some of the bible content?
        
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        June 1, 2017 3:14pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Yep, somethimes. In the first instance, the Bible is proclamation, not a dispassionate history, so events and their causes are placed within the purpose of relaying “holy history”, in particular the story of a uniquely monotheistic but otherwise insignificant nation by the name of Israel. Indeed it does not claim to be “history”, but rather (and I refer to the Old Testament)
        
        “Torah”/Law/Instruction,
        
        the “Prophets” (which also includes the post-settlement events of Israel and Judah
        
        and Writings (including Wisdom sayings)
        
        For example, we now know Jericho existed. An archaeologist who first excavated the site in the 1930s, John Garstang believed he had discovered proof that the walls had collapsed just as the Book Of Joshua describes it, but that was refuted by further work in the 1950s by another archaeologist, Kathleen Kenyon.
        
        What tends to happen is that pro- or anti-Bible propagandists jump on any and every archaeological find that suits their case. However, while archaeology has firmed up many of our assumptions, the exciting thing is that an anytime the excavators spade or trowel can reveal something that results in a dramatic reconfiguration in understanding.
        
        http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2008/05/Did-the-Israelites-Conquer-Jericho-A-New-Look-at-the-Archaeological-Evidence.aspx
        
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        June 1, 2017 3:27pm
      - Kimbo
        
        …which only seems to be a problem with those, such as Jewish and Christian fundamentalists and their strange-bedfellows, the uber-atheists of this world such as the Richard Dawkins and late-Christopher Hitchens, who insist truth must conform in all cases to the logical-positivist assumptions that under gird our modern science. Hence their insistence on shibboleths (‘scuse the Bible pun) such as “inerrant” and “infallible”.
        
        But as that is an ideological perspective alien to the Scriptures, and instead they should be taken and understood on their own terms in the first instance, it isn’t a problem for most biblical scholars, nor the average Jew or Christian who believes in the doctrine of the authority of Scripture
        
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        June 1, 2017 3:57pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Ed Snack , and the archaelogical record pre dating that period .
      
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      June 1, 2017 2:50pm
- Gruffydd
  
  Sounds good jason
  We should teach them that the bible is a translation of a translation of the ancient belief system of a bunch of ignorant goat hurdlers. We should also Teach them that it has gone though 2000 years of reinterpretations at odds with what is taught in the local Church.
  
  Most importantly we should teach them
  There is probably no god .
  
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  June 1, 2017 11:09am
  - JasonJohns
    
    Sorry, Gruffy, atheism lost the election. God won. God is in the White House. Trump and Pence are doing the Lord’s work and they will bring the Bible back into science classes, where it belongs.
    
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    June 1, 2017 11:12am
    - Gruffydd
      
      You keep pushing that Jason.
      It might just sink into some of the wonks who support the republican party despite their backward god bothering .
      
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      June 1, 2017 11:16am
    - rangitoto
      
      Kea – have you tried this:
      
      30:37 And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods.
      30:38 And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.
      30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.
      
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      June 1, 2017 11:18am
    - B.L.Zeebub
      
      God won?
      He/she has a bit of a habit of backing Fuckwits.
      
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      June 1, 2017 11:59am
    - Swifty
      
      Athiesm is the fastest growing (rejection of) belief system in the US – and we have the internet to thank for a large part of this.
      
      What sort of creepy behaviour is this anyway, demanding other people’s children are taught YOUR religious beliefs and presented as facts?
      
      You’d be happy that your kids were taught the koran as fact?
      
      Get over yourself mate. You’re history and the world is better for it.
      
      Edit-spelling
      
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      June 1, 2017 12:56pm
  - Garbageman
    
    What on earth is a “goat hurdler” is that the Muslim version of an Olympics event
    
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    June 1, 2017 1:13pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      No goat hurdling was an ancient Hebrew pass time.
      Unfortunately due to the physics of running on sand in sandals it often resulted in to low a trajectory impaling the poor goat on the participants member.
      The Muslims having witnessed the joy this brought the Hebrews decided to delete the hurdling part and just concentrate on the goat impaling .
      
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      June 1, 2017 2:22pm
      - Swifty
        
        Heh.
        
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        June 1, 2017 2:25pm
  - KevOB
    
    Fortunately God has presenced Himself in the world and hundreds of millions of Christians can attest to how the Holy Spirit has changed or provided for them. That can be real tangible provision. Our God lives. The bible says those beliefs will be seen as foolish to non believers. I do not believe in sky fairies but I do acknowledge the risen Christ and what He has done or caused to be done in my and my families life. I canot deny that.
    
    I also acknowledge the utility and value of good scientific endeavour.
    
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    June 1, 2017 1:42pm
- Gabby
  
  Penice would have no problem with schools teaching there is no evidence supporting the existence of any deity. He’d just love that.
  
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  June 1, 2017 6:56pm
Monique Watson

Oh Jeez that smokefree military crap is fucked up. It’s easy for a non-smoker to criticize but it’s one of life’s small pleasures and a link to sanity after trauma or PTSD, in the face of impending deployment or in times of stress to smoke and chat with other smokers.
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June 1, 2017 10:28am
- stephieboy
  
  Monique Watson , still stuffing up your breathing tubes with Nicotine tars ?
  
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  June 1, 2017 11:01am
JasonJohns

Two of the heaviest hitters in NZ’s whites civil rights movement John Ansell and Martin Doutre have joined forces to call for the freedom of Allan Titford, who was framed by the state
https://treatygate.wordpress.com/2014/04/08/martin-doutre-good-on-you-ulanda/
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June 1, 2017 11:01am
JasonJohns

The backwardness of Islam, in a nutshell:
although the Koran, the holy text of Islam, says the universe was created in six days, the next line adds that a day, in this instance, is metaphorical: “a thousand years of your reckoning.”

By contrast, some Christian creationists find in the Bible a strict chronology that requires a 6,000-year-old Earth and thus object not only to evolution but also to much of modern geology and cosmology, which say the Earth and the universe are billions of years old.’

Ken Ham is working to convert Muslims to the reality of a six thousand year old earth. https://answersingenesis.org/evidence-for-creation/six-evidences-of-young-earth/
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June 1, 2017 11:05am
- Kimbo
  
  The backwardness of Islam
  
  I’d suggest they are not the only ones. As per the critique of flat-earthers, many of whom are drawn to that opinion courtesy of their faith in and reading of Scripture,
  
  …how’s Ken Ham doing on being consistent with his Biblical literalism? I refer to his demand that the Genesis creation and flood narratives are scientific…which, if so, means our earth is a flat disc overlaid by a solid-dome sky that holds back “the waters above”, which, as per Genesis 1:2 – (only the second verse of the Bible!):
  
  2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
  
  …was an element that existed before the original creation?
  
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  June 1, 2017 11:17am
- jonar
  
  Ken Ham sure is a riot. Some great pictures here of the replica ark that was built using cranes.
  
  http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/04/29/here-are-aerial-images-of-ken-hams-ark-under-construction-notice-anything-un-biblical/
  
  “If the Creation Science Museum folks really believed the Word of God, they would have built the Ark by hand, with eight people, using only materials/methods available thousands of years ago. Apparently, the people who run the Creation Science Museum do not think this is possible. So, they have only given ammunition to unsaved trash who claim the Bible is fiction. I rebuke them for unwittingly falling into this wholly unnecessary, and expensive, trap.”
  
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  June 1, 2017 12:16pm
  - Scott
    
    I really like what Ken Ham is doing, building an ark. The key point is the universal flood of the earth which showed God’s judgement. Myths and legends from all around the world tell of a universal flood. This backs up the Biblical account.
    
    Other important features of the creationist viewpoint are –
    – a young earth in thousands of years rather than millions of years
    – special creation rather than an evolutionary process of change
    – the importance of design. The earth and the animals were designed.
    
    Creationism is an important antidote to dead-end evolutionary thinking. Evolution ask us to believe so many impossible things – in the beginning nothing exploded and became everything. That somehow a trial and error process will bring about the complexity of the animals and life that we see all around us. Somehow the earth that was seemingly designed for life could just appear with no intelligent designer behind it. Other problems with evolution accounts include the difficulty of finding transitional forms and even the conceptual difficulty of trying to understand how transitional forms could exist given how finely tuned life is.
    
    So I would urge all people to look at both sides of the evidence. Ken Ham has written extensively on this as has Michael Denton “evolution a theory in crisis” is also very good.
    
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    June 1, 2017 3:33pm
    - Kimbo
      
      I really like what Ken Ham is doing, building an ark. The key point is the universal flood of the earth which showed God’s judgement. …Creationism is an important antidote to dead-end evolutionary thinking.
      
      So your justification, like Ham’s when pressed into a corner, is not science or verifiable and potentially falsifiable fact, but ideology based on…faith.
      
      Which is why Ham, irrespective of his ~~poor~~ non-existent understanding of the original context that gave rise to the Book of Genesis, deserves to be dismissed out-of-hand as a scientist with relevant expertise in the matter.
      
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      June 1, 2017 3:37pm
    - rangitoto
      
      “The key point is the universal flood of the earth”
      
      Strange that the Egyptian civilisation, which has continuous history through the entire bronze age and after didn’t seem to notice themselves getting wiped out.
      
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      June 1, 2017 4:03pm
      - Scott
        
        Well that’s an interesting point. In fact you’ll find throughout the myths and legends of many civilisations a story of a flood and some of the people being saved on a boat, sometimes a canoe.
        I’m not familiar with Egypt’s myths and legends but it wouldn’t surprise me to find something similar there.
        
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        June 1, 2017 4:44pm
      - Kea
        
        rangitoto LOL 🙂
        
        Today’s best wise crack award goes to you.
        
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        June 1, 2017 5:48pm
      - rangitoto
        
        The Noah story is clearly of Mesopotamian origin and derived from the Gilgamesh epic. The flood gets bigger as the story is passed down through the centuries.
        
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        June 1, 2017 5:53pm
    - Swifty
      
      You have entirely misrepresented evolution.
      
      Why? Do you now understand it, or are you wilfully bullshitting?
      
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      June 1, 2017 5:33pm
    - Kea
      
      Do you reckon Ken Ham will join the other religious leaders and be revealed as a sex offender, possibly a gay one who does drugs ?
      
      Or is he the exception among your leaders ?
      
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      June 1, 2017 5:46pm
  - cha
    
    Ken Ham sure is a riot.
    
    Male and female, Ken and Marilyn, dipped their snouts into the trough…….
    
    It turns out the majority of Ark Encounter is being funded by a TIF granted by the City of Williamstown, Kentucky. On November 1, 2012, a Memorandum of Agreement (begins on page 55) approving $62 million in funding for Ark Encounter, LLC was signed by officials of Williamstown and the County of Grant.
    
    It said that, over a 30-year period, 75% of Ark Encounter’s real estate taxes would go toward repayment of the interest-free TIF. So instead of that money going to the city (and the citizens), it’ll be used to repay those bonds.
    
    Also — pay attention to this one, potential Ark Park staffers — all employees working within the TIF district (that is, Ark Encounter) will pay a 2% job assessment fee on gross wages. In other words, $2 out of every pre-tax $100 dollars you make will go directly to paying off the for-profit Noah’s Ark attraction.
    
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/11/11/what-ken-ham-isnt-telling-you-about-ark-encounter-funding/
    
    btw, one of the funders, Grant County, Ky is in the shit, too.
    
    http://www.governing.com/topics/finance/gov-noahs-ark-encounter.html?
    
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    June 1, 2017 4:01pm
    - Scott
      
      Well if the local county wants to fund it so what? The NZ people fund the Wellington museum which has as a centre piece an evolutionary representation of apes becoming man. If ratepayers can fund evolution why can’t they fund creation science?
      
      Why is it ok to fund secular things but not ok for communities to fund non secular things?
      
      What I’m trying to get at is this assumption of secularism as the norm. It’s not. Most societies throughout history were not secular.
      
      The USA was founded with the declaration of independence which talks about people being imbued by their creator with certain inalienable rights. Including the right to challenge the secularist establishment methinks.
      
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      June 1, 2017 4:52pm
      - cha
        
        Well if the local county wants to fund it so what?
        
        Oh, so you’re a socialist who thinks government should pick winners and commit taxpayers to fund their picks.
        
        Righto.
        
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        June 1, 2017 5:25pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        talks about people being imbued by their creator with certain inalienable rights.
        
        Note how it does not specify the Creator in question.
        
        There would be far more support for a FSM theme park
        Imagine A beer volcano and a stripper factory for attracted the punters . The Pastafarian Hell is similar, …But the beer is flat and the strippers all have STD so even you unbelievers could join in the fun.
        
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        June 1, 2017 5:37pm
      - Kea
        
        If ratepayers can fund evolution why can’t they fund creation science?
        
        Because one is fantasy and the other science.
        
        The fact you are too vain and cowardly to accept mortality does not mean ignorant bronze age myths should be spread using tax payer dollars.
        
        Your mental health issues can be dealt with using your dollars.
        
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        June 1, 2017 5:42pm
- Swifty
  
  Nutter.
  
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  June 1, 2017 12:59pm
  - Kimbo
    
    Troll more like it.
    
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    June 1, 2017 1:00pm
JasonJohns

Christ’s blood guides the White House.

U.S. Vice President Mike Pence along with eight other members of President Trump’s cabinet are gathering every week to pray and to study the Bible.

The gatherings, designed by a Christian ministry in the Capitol for government officials at all levels, suggest that God has indeed been brought back into the federal government by the Trump administration.

Along with Pence, sponsors of the event include Secretaries Betsy DeVos, Ben Carson, Sonny Perdue, Rick Perry, and Tom Price, Attorney General Jeff Sessions, as well as EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt and CIA Director Mike Pompeo, reported CBN News.

Ralph Drollinger, who runs Capitol Ministries and leads the weekly event, said God will bless the nation when its leaders turn to him in prayer.

“In terms of a country’s health and direction, when its leaders are seeking God, the nation is in a position to be blessed by God in ways that are ‘far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think,'” he said, referring to a letter from St. Paul to the Ephesians.

Drollinger’s April 25 bible study focused on the importance of having what he called a “Bible-Based Ministry” in the Capitol.

“God judged Israel when His people worshipped other gods. Too often this betrayal was fostered by her spiritual leaders. … It stands to reason that spiritual leaders who minister to our government leaders are critically important to the health of the nation,” he said during the study.

“Whether or not they lead them in God’s ways has huge repercussions relative to if or not God blesses a nation,” he added.
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June 1, 2017 11:14am
- Kimbo
  
  “In terms of a country’s health and direction, when its leaders are seeking God, the nation is in a position to be blessed by God in ways that are ‘far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think,’” he said, referring to a letter from St. Paul to the Ephesians.
  
  Paul’s letter to the Ephesians is in effect the “Manifesto of the Church”, and it is to her that the blessings refer, not the state, be it Roman, Jewish, or American. While a nation can enjoy the blessings of common grace, and also the ministry of Christians within it acting as salt and light, the only “nation” i.e., political entity ever chosen by God was ancient Israel, centred around a physical temple (Amos 3: 1-2):
  
  Hear this word, people of Israel, the word the LORD has spoken against you–against the whole family I brought up out of Egypt: You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your sins.”
  
  …and that blessing of election, as per the letter to the Ephesians, Chapter 2, now applies to the…Church alone. Not America. Or NZ. Or Britain. Or Christendom-then, or in a revived form. So beware of anyone, politician or preacher, who attempts to baptise their state, or imply that if they are installed God is obligated to bless it.
  
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  June 1, 2017 11:33am
- Reid
  
  when its leaders are seeking God
  
  Its leaders haven’t been, that’s the issue.
  
  Iran is actually the most God-fearing nation on Earth, if you want the truth of it.
  
  Most people of course don’t want the truth, but that doesn’t make it any less truthful.
  
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  June 1, 2017 12:44pm
- Swifty
  
  Blithering idiots, liars and charlatans – the lot of them.
  
  Get help man.
  
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  June 1, 2017 1:01pm
- stephieboy
  
  JasonJohns , I take that the Lord has forgiven Donald Trump for his past sexual indiscretions and condemning Bill Clinton to the fiery lake ?
  
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  June 1, 2017 2:55pm
cha

What, no ‘Paulie Walnuts’.

Nearly two dozen members and associates of the notorious Lucchese crime family, including the purported top leaders, were arrested on federal charges in a sweeping bust early Wednesday, law enforcement officials tell NBC 4 New York.

[…]

The indictment reads like a 1980s tabloid crime story, with defendants like “Paulie Roast Beef, ” “Wonder Boy,” “Big Joe,” “Big John,” “Joey Glasses” and “Spanish Carmine.”

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Mob-Bust-Lucchese-Crime-Family-Murder-Federal-Racketeering-Charges-Arrest-FBI-425489754.html?
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June 1, 2017 11:22am
Jack5

The cowardly thuggery of “king hit” or “coward punch” assaults continues around New Zealand and Australia.

You don’t see the punch coming because the coward will throw the punch from behind or the side when you are looking away. The coward is nearly always part of a group.

Taken unawares, you crash heavily and your head bounces on the concrete.

Our justice system is failing protect us. At one end we have judges from leafy suburbs whose empathy seems to lie with offenders rather than victims. At the other end we have a penal system more intent on graduating prisoners with degrees than it is in punishing them.

We are getting to the point, it would be better if citizens were allowed to carry pistols to protect themselves.

Doctor in critical condition after being coward-punched in Melbourne:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mill-park-man-charged-over-onepunch-assault-on-surgeon-at-box-hill-hospital-20170531-gwhqp5.html
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June 1, 2017 11:25am
- Gruffydd
  
  Oh to live in a simple world.
  
  it would be better if citizens were allowed to carry pistols to protect themselves.
  
  Tell me Jack.
  How would you keep said pistols out of the hands of the sort of thug who king hits people?
  Much rather a smack in the head than a bullet up the ass.
  
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  June 1, 2017 11:33am
  - Jack5
    
    I don’t hear much about coward-punch attacks in parts of the United States where you can legally carry a pistol.
    
    Wasn’t it the Colt single-action “Army” revolver that became known in the American West as the Equaliser?
    
    In a similar way, firearms can reduce the imbalance between a bunch of thugs and an innocent citizen.
    
    The do-gooders should not be able to have both a gun-free society AND a society in which thugs are bashing law-abiding citizens to the level of serious injury or death.
    
    What do you think the remedy for coward-punch attacks is, Gruffydd? Increased school counsellors? Restorative justice between the thugs and the families of the killed or brain-damaged victim?
    
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    June 1, 2017 11:41am
    - SGA
      
      Wasn’t it the Colt single-action “Army” revolver that became known in the American West as the Equaliser?
      
      The good ol’ peaceful American West 🙂
      
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      June 1, 2017 12:26pm
      - Kea
        
        SGA in areas of the US where carrying guns is legal there is less violent crime.
        
        In the “liberal” areas with tighter ~~people control~~ gun control there is far more violent crime, including gun crime.
        
        So yes things were more peaceful back then. No thanks to your ilk.
        
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        June 1, 2017 12:32pm
      - SGA
        
        So yes things were more peaceful back then. No thanks to your ilk.
        
        I’ve no idea what my ilk (whatever that might be) got up to in the ol’ West. I imagine they were called “varmints” rather than your more highfalutin “vermin” back then though.
        
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        June 1, 2017 12:40pm
      - Kea
        
        “vermin”
        
        SGA, time to let go of those revenge fantasies and move on 😉
        
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        June 1, 2017 12:45pm
      - SGA
        
        lol – trust me, you appear in none of my fantasies. If I was writing a comedy, on the other hand, …
        
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        June 1, 2017 12:48pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Kea
        
        No, SGA was his typical emotionally calm self when you ~~used that term to describe~~ shitted on him. I’m the one whose wanting roast parrot on the menu as a result.
        
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        June 1, 2017 12:48pm
      - Kea
        
        Kimbo, Thanks for sharing your feelings but I am not your shrink. I simply don’t care. Nothing personal, I just don’t.
        
        Talking shit makes you a target on KB, regardless of how calmly you perceive the shit was delivered. Others “calmly” say things that get them banned. The issue is the content, not what you imagine is the emotion of the writer.
        
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        June 1, 2017 5:17pm
  - Jack5
    
    Gruffyd trivialises a coward punch as a ” smack in the head”.
    
    It’s much more than this. It is an unexpected punch. A punch out of the blue that fells the victim, who, unprepared and probably already unconscious, falls heavily, damaging his head as it bounces on curb or something else concrete.
    
    (I say “his” head, because I haven’t heard of a coward-punch attack on a woman. Maybe if women were attacked the justice system would treat coward punches more seriously.)
    
    The result is often death, and otherwise it is often, even usually, serious brain damage.
    
    It would be nice if the MSM treated coward-punch attacks as seriously as they treat dairy holdups.
    
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    June 1, 2017 11:49am
    - cha
      
      It is an unexpected punch. A punch out of the blue that fells the victim,
      
      And how exactly do guns protect victims from unexpected punches out of the blue?.
      
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      June 1, 2017 11:55am
      - Jack5
        
        You’re obviously a law-abiding type, Cha. The possibility that law-abiding people are armed would be a deterrent.
        
        A thug would think twice about getting close enough to someone who might be carrying a pistol. The thugs are cowards.
        
        That’s why a coward punch nearly always comes from someone with a companion or in a group.
        
        The second point is that law-abiding people who felt the need to carry guns would almost certainly learn how to use a pistol while armed thugs are mostly point-and-shoot, incompetent dolts when it comes to firearms. Many of them come from shady backgrounds and wouldn’t get gun permits.
        
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        June 1, 2017 12:02pm
      - Garbageman
        
        Possibly for the same reasons that scroats would seriously think twice before robbing your local dairy if they knew or suspected the owners were carrying weapons
        
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        June 1, 2017 1:22pm
    - Reid
      
      A friend of mine had a good idea many years ago.
      
      He said everyone convicted of a crime should be forced to wear an explosive collar when they’re let out and everyone else should be issued a detonator button they carry with them at all times…
      
      I thought that was a great idea and once recidivism had dropped to zero we could extend it to all sorts of other areas, like politicians and policy analysts for a start, maybe feminists and social justice warriors, immigrants from certain countries, MSM execs and journalists, the possibilties are endless.
      
      Maybe I should stand for Parliament.
      
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      June 1, 2017 12:38pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      Love it jack5
      Still arguing with your own imagination.
      
      Lets play Griff’s roulette.
      You punch me in the head.
      I will crack a .38 round up your arse.
      We can compare the result after you get out of the critical ward with your colostomy bag if you are lucky.
      
      I don’t hear much about coward-punch attacks in parts of the United States where you can legally carry a pistol.
      
      Instead their news is full of drive by shootings, cases of the missus coping one in an argument and collateral damages .
      
      The USA has had 25,500 gun incidents 6,244 deaths and 12,333 injury’s so far this year.
      Only 872 of those incidents were self defense.
      http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
      
      Shit odds.
      
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      June 1, 2017 12:59pm
      - Jack5
        
        Gruffydd (with just 18 comments) says:
        
        “Lets play Griff’s roulette.”
        
        Griff is absent.
        
        1+1 = 2
        
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        June 1, 2017 1:49pm
      - SGA
        
        Gosh, Jack5, it took you 18 comments? Some of us had him at 9 earlier today 🙂
        
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        June 1, 2017 2:03pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        1 + 1 = 3
        Deduction results in more knowledge than the original information.
        
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        June 1, 2017 2:08pm
      - Jack5
        
        I calculate 1+1 = 2
        Griff/Gruffydd calculates 1+1 = 3
        
        Ah, the magic of marijuana mathematics.
        
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        June 1, 2017 4:06pm
    - howitis
      
      Bring in the ‘007’ rule for dairy holdups.
      Personnel licensed to kill.
      Have 2 or 3 licensed operatives who get rotated around high risk dairies.
      
      They hide inside the store. Anyone comes in to assault and/or rob, shoot on sight.
      Bang!! terminated!
      All or any in the invading group. This scheme will pay for itself in future welfare payments many times over.
      
      Ensure a decent quality video camera for surveillance to protect the law enforcers from malicious prosecution from scum families looking to cash in.
      Good cameras are relatively low cost compared to even 5 years ago.
      
      Drop the carcasses back at the homes of the perpetrators or ‘known associates’.
      
      At one of two downed scum, the criminals will think twice – if they are capable of thinking.
      If not and they persist they get terminated. This saves massively on welfare in the future.
      Discounted cash flow (DCF) over say the next 60 years, per carcass, probably over $20 million in prison costs, DPB, cost of downstream inbreds, damage to others lives and property and other antisocial crap from low-lifes.
      Huge win!
      Better payback than motorways for a small cost.
      Insurance companies would win large as well as the taxpayer.
      
      If we can’t source this job locally then make it a skill shortfall for immigrants.
      I’m sure there are few chaps in Texas who could do the job.
      Personnel would be outside the control of the police who have chosen to give crims a free run in this country. This is not new. They f..ed around for ages when there were almost daily bank holdups in the late 1980s. They are not fit for purpose.
      Have the personnel report to The Minister of Corrections.
      A hot lead sandwich would correct the hoodlum in a way they will not cause harm to others ever again.
      Now that is a correction!
      
      Time for a ‘take out the trash’ policy this September election.
      
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      June 1, 2017 1:36pm
  - Kea
    
    “Tell me Jack.
    How would you keep said pistols out of the hands of the sort of thug who king hits people?”
    
    Those thugs won’t king hit people when the victim and those around him may be armed.
    
    This view is based on the evidence of areas with open carry. Crimes against people and property plummet when guns laws are liberalised.
    
    But maybe you are not a liberal like Jack and Kea are…
    
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    June 1, 2017 12:36pm
- howitis
  
  Perpetrator of a coward punch.
  Immediate charge for murder.
  No excuses for alcohol, rugby player, upcoming sports star, mums got cancer, my girlfriend left me blah blah.
  Locked up.
  
  And… any associates who are party to the offender get charged with aggravated assault.
  Make it a team responsibility. They could have stopped it.
  Much of this is on CCTV so not difficult.
  
  Of course ‘you’re dreaming’ is the answer as real crime is treated very lightly.
  Australia gets there. NZ never does.
  Assault, burglary, holdups etc are not regarded as crime by NZ cops until there is pressure to do their job. They are too busy virtue signalling and harassing legitimate business owners and registered drivers. You can see the ‘union effect’ there.
  
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  June 1, 2017 1:04pm
  - Happychappy
    
    Funny how we used to condem the Hate that John Key used to get and now some of those same people on here use their Hate against the Police. Funny how people change their minds when it suits them.
    
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    June 1, 2017 6:31pm
zonic

regarding the point england reserve being sold for housing.

This document explains it clearly and more eloquently then I ever could:
http://saveourreserves.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Pt-England-AIDE-MEMOIRE.pdf

There are many debates to taken from this including, green space/housing balance, the outcome. But can I ask the people here about this part of this deal, the process. Is this just good politics for the govt to achieve what they want. Or am I being cynical?

”
5. …. Being allowed to make submissions to the Local Government and Environment select committee after the Minister has offered Ngati Paoa the land and to promote the passing of the Bill, and after the first reading of the Bill is too little, too late. Given the Government knew there would be opposition, it is cynical to only allow residents to submit to the select committee after the deal appears to be a fait accompli. Parliament is just being used as a rubber stamp.
“
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June 1, 2017 11:31am
- publicwatchdog
  
  In my considered opinion, the Nick Smith attempted LAND GRAB of public reserve land at Pt England for private property developers, is part of the Tamaki ‘Regeneration’ – GENTRIFICATION
  $CAM.
  
  FYI
  _________________________________
  
  Transcript of Anti-corruption campaigner Penny Bright’s address to the Board of Auckland Council Controlled Organisation (CCO) Panuku Development, 31 May 2017:
  
  “All right – for those of you who don’t know me, my name is Penny Bright.
  
  I am an anti-privatisation /anti-corruption ‘Public Watchdog / Private Ombudsman’ (as it were) and I choose to work on a self-funded basis and have done that for the last 17 years.
  
  I have attended 6 International Anti-Corruption Conferences, and although I am a time-served Tradesperson, with Advanced Trade in Sheetmetal Engineering, New Zealand’s first ticketed woman Welding Inspector, and a welding tutor for 9 years at Manukau Tech, I have never been to University, never had a days formal legal training in my life, but have actually been invited to The Hague, as one of New Zealand’s experts for the World Justice Project International Rule of Law Forum, which will be happening in mid-July.
  
  https://worldjusticeproject.org/our-work/engagement/events/world-justice-forum
  
  So – why am I here?
  
  I’m here to tell you as the Board of Panuku I’m deeply concerned about what has been happening in Tamaki.
  
  I believe that the facts prove that the Tamaki ‘Regeneration’ project has actually been a Tamaki GENTRIFICATION project and I believe that MPs, Councillors, public and the tenants have been misled over what’s been happening.
  
  I believe it’s effectively been a State-sponsored land grab for property developers.
  
  The role of Panuku, as I understand it, was to represent the 41% shareholding that Auckland Council has in the Tamaki Redevelopment Company Limited, this new Crown /Council hybrid.
  
  The facts are that the public were told via the Local Government and Environment Select Committee Report on the Tamaki Redevelopment Company Limited (TRC) that the Tamaki Redevelopment Company Limited (TRC) was established in 2012 as an urban redevelopment company:
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/51DBSCH_SCR68578_1/244291aaab825db7d3685cce7e3ccd49a2a7589e
  
  “It is a Crown entity with joint shareholdings by the Crown 59% and Auckland Council 41%.
  
  The company aims to achieve social, economic and housing objectives in the Auckland area of Tamaki during the next 20 – 25 years.
  
  …
  
  Transfer of housing stock from Housing NZ Corporation on the 31st of March 2016, the company will take over ownership of about 2,800 properties in the Tamaki area.”
  __________________________________
  
  As it happens, the Tamaki Redevelopment Company Limited did not get one house.
  
  What ended up happening was that 2,704 former Housing NZ properties were transferred to a new company – Tamaki Regeneration Limited.
  
  Although the original 100 shares in Tamaki Regeneration Limited were 100% owned by the Tamaki Redevelopment Company Limited, on 15 April 2016, suddenly 1.6 billion shares were created, which meant the 100 shares in which Auckland Council had the 41% shareholding – basically vanished into oblivion.
  
  https://www.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/5840214/shareholdings
  
  Now – so how did this happen – and I know that there was one member of the Board (of Panuku Development) that is also a Board member of the Tamaki Redevelopment Company Limited and
  Tamaki Regeneration Limited, because the Directors are the same.
  
  So, I believe that there has been massive misleadership here of what has actually happened.
  
  Now, I have spent 2 weeks of my own time going around 2,704 addresses, (with the help of drivers) and have checked 2,704 addresses to see whether these houses appear to be occupied, empty or bare sections, and what I discovered is:
  
  76 bare sections where Housing NZ properties used to be, and are now grass with big fences around, and also about 70 empty (former) Housing NZ properties.
  
  So – I’m deeply concerned that given that the public were told that there were going to be another 7,500 houses built in Tamaki – where the hell are they, and why do we have all these empty sections and empty houses?
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/51SCLGE_ADV_00DBSCH_ANR_67870_1_A474440/ab00c41388e91d4ec98005b3c231a5cbde53fbb3
  
  What I believe is that it is a land grab of prime real estate, and the purpose of this Tamaki ‘Regeneration’ project was actually to get rid of poor people off prime real estate.
  
  If you actually drive around there, as I have, you can see that’s really obviously what’s happening.
  
  I’m also deeply concerned about what’s happening with the Point England Development Enabling Bill, because again the public are being misled.
  
  The name Tamaki Redevelopment Company Limited is what MPs are told are the ones who own the assets.
  
  They don’t.
  
  The key question is that Tamaki Regeneration Limited as the owner of the assets – they are the ones who decide how much money the Tamaki Redevelopment Company Limited is going to get.
  
  So – let’s see it shall we?
  
  How much money has been spent on ‘regeneration’ projects in tamaki?
  
  Who exactly has organised these projects?
  
  Where’s the money gone?
  
  Where are the results?
  
  We had all the fine words about what was going to happen to these poorer communities in Glen Innes, Panmure and Point England – the results don’t seem to match the talk.
  
  What I also want to include – I did an Official Information Act (OIA) request to John Holyoake, who is the CEO of Tamaki Regeneration Limited and asked some very, very hard questions.
  
  That OIA request has now been acknowledged – it’s in the ‘sausage machine’ and I want it to be attached, formally, to these Board Minutes.
  
  Also – an OIA reply I had from Stephen Joyce, who is one of two Crown shareholding Ministers, and he explained how it was that Tamaki Regeneration Limited was set up.
  
  It was pushed basically by the Board of Directors – which – as i say are the same for both Tamaki Redevelopment Company Limited and Tamaki Regeneration Limited, plus Treasury.
  
  So – other concerns I have that I wish to raise with the Board of Panuku as an anti-corruption campaigner:
  
  I’m very keen to see a very clear ‘Register of Interests’ of any interests that any of you Board members have with property development companies.
  
  I think that should be made available for the public to see.
  
  I’m deeply concerned that the role of Panuku appears to be to facilitate the turning of public land over to private property developers, particularly public reserve land.
  
  According to research that I did, I got a Social Services Select Committee inquiry into why was it that everyone appeared to be saying that there was going to be an extra million people coming to Auckland by 2040, when Auckland Transport and Watercare Services, two key infrastructure providers were working to the ‘medium’ population growth projection of an extra 700,000 people coming to Auckland.
  
  I was successful in getting a Select Committee inquiry and basically, it boiled down to two people pushing for an extra million people coming to Auckland – the former Mayor Len Brown and former Auckland Council Chief Planning Officer, Dr Roger Blakeley.
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/50DBSCH_SCR5953_1/9f8a825ae96c25bddf7d0c8bddb58511039a4d16
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/resource/mi-nz/50SCSS_EVI_50DBHOH_PET3157_1_A338307/c0545be9171849399f2468c6567ae9303ce418ce
  
  Now – how is it that when you go around the corner to Britomart – you see an Auckland Transport sign that says there are going to be an extra 700,000 people coming to Auckland by 2040, which is why these transport changes are happening?
  
  How can you be 300,000 people ‘out’?
  
  Because that extra 300,000 people helped to push the Special Housing Areas legislation.
  
  So – if population growth is such a major ‘driver’ – wouldn’t you expect infrastructure providers, and Council and Government to all ‘be on the same page’?
  
  Because they’re not.
  
  In the Unitary Plan for example, it does not include the apparently 33,000 empty private sector houses that were uncovered in the (2013) census.
  
  I hadn’t actually realised, as someone who opposed the ‘Supercity’ from day one, (and understood the bigger contracts for fewer but bigger private contractors) how the ‘One Plan’ for Auckland, was to ‘uncomplicate’ things – not for citizens and ratepayers – but for property developers.
  
  Because yes – it does get complicated when you’ve got 3 District Council Plans, 4 City Council Plans and one Auckland Regional Council Plan – much easier to have one plan – but I can tell you right now that people, ordinary people of Auckland had a hell of a lot more say over what was happening in their street and their area – back in those ‘bad old days’.
  
  I’ll leave it there – thank you.”
  
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  June 1, 2017 1:16pm
  - Gruffydd
    
    Tl;dr.
    
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    June 1, 2017 1:28pm
  - Garbageman
    
    I’ll leave it there – thank fuck for that. ”
    
    shame you are not so passionate about those pesky rates eh !
    
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    June 1, 2017 1:45pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    Was that you shouting at a rubbish bin on Queen Street this morning? Just wondering.
    
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    June 1, 2017 2:28pm
  - dirty harry
    
    gee..just whenI was getting interested too
    
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    June 1, 2017 2:52pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    All right – for those of you who don’t know me, my name is Penny Bright.
    
    That’s a good line. I might use it next time I want to quickly end a conversation!
    
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    June 1, 2017 6:28pm
- wiseowl
  
  You are right Zonic.
  Welcome to the era of ‘to hell with the people, we’ll do what we want’ from this government.
  The days of respecting due process are over.
  
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  June 1, 2017 1:52pm
  - zonic
    
    thank you wiseowl, good to know I am not alone. I just hope others would wake up.
    
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    June 1, 2017 2:49pm
    - sooty
      
      Pissoff, you bat shit crazy loon and pay your rates. DPF can you block this loon, or limit her post to 5 words.
      
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      June 1, 2017 5:24pm
cha

The wingspan exceeds Hughes’ H4 ‘Spruce Goose’ by 20 metres.

http://stratolaunch.com/gallery.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratolaunch_Systems
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June 1, 2017 11:41am
JasonJohns

We know Trump won in a landslide that was partially hidden by fraudulent opinion polls and by millions of fake votes. Now the MSM/NWO is trying to position Corbyn to win in the UK, with fake polls. We all know Corbyn’s incredibly popular and can’t be anywhere near May in a real poll. Be careful, Theresa May. Like Trump you may have millions stolen from you on election day. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-latest-labour-led-alliance-progressive-parites-possible-yougov-poll-jeremey-corbyn-a7765036.html
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June 1, 2017 11:44am
- Inky_the_Red
  
  A poll out today had the Tories with a massive 3% lead over Labour which is admittedly the closest poll. May’s campaign has been quite poor and may be contributing to Corbyn looking and sounding like an alternative PM. I doubt Labour will get the numbers but think a Tory / DUP coalition is looking likely
  
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  June 1, 2017 4:51pm
Jack5

Will the Greens endorse this natural remedy?

Putting wasp nests up vaginas!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4560228/Women-putting-ground-wasp-nests-vagina-tighten-it.html
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June 1, 2017 11:59am
- SGA
  
  Wonder if there will soon be a market for kevlar condoms?
  
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  June 1, 2017 12:29pm
- Kea
  
  Been going on in Africa for years and is a major contributor to the spread of AIDs due to vaginal abrasions.
  
  Ever stopped to wonder why AIDs has spread so much in Africa ? We are lied to that it is due to “poverty and inequality” but have you asked how that causes you to contract a disease ?
  
  The answer is having no money and being on the bones of your arse does not give you AIDs, or I would be infested with it !
  
  The reason is due entirely to their sexual practices.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_sex
  
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  June 1, 2017 12:41pm
  - stephieboy
    
    kea , have the given you the boot from the Atlanta Centre for Disease control !
    
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    June 1, 2017 2:52pm
Reid

So have people been folllowing this?

Class action lawsuit against the DNC alleging breach of the DNC Charter through its Chairwoman acting partially toward HRC over Bernie.

Not only has a process server mysteriously died after serving papers on the DNC and its chair, but the suit also has an element alleging breach of care of the DNC by not protecting the data on its donars.

The DNC in a Apr 24 hearing argued yes, they were not impartial but no, this is not illegal.

Case is ongoing.

Re: the second element of the data protection, this goes to the heart of who leaked it to whom which of course brings in Seth Rich.

Watch this space.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-30/dnc-lawsuit-exposes-corruption-data-breaches-raises-questions-about-death-shawn-luca
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June 1, 2017 12:28pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  @ Reid
  I presume you are on top of the Awan brothers IT debacle, especially now that wife Hina Alvi has fled to Pakistan.
  http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/22/sources-democratic-aide-suspected-of-major-security-breach-under-government-protection-in-pakistan/
  
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  June 1, 2017 3:14pm
  - Reid
    
    Thanks for that Maggy, I hadn’t seen that bit.
    
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    June 1, 2017 5:21pm
Manolo

TDS will erupt again:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/335844-bloomberg-55-percent-chance-trump-will-win-reelection

Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg thinks there’s a “55%” President Trump will be reelected in 2020.

Bloomberg, who politically identifies as independent, told New York Times columnist Frank Bruni that he thought Democrats didn’t have an effective message to win the 2016 election and could repeat that mistake in 2020.
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June 1, 2017 12:54pm
- virtualmark
  
  It’s a pity Bloomberg didn’t run for President. He’s a way higher quality candidate than either Trump or Hillary.
  
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  June 1, 2017 6:25pm
Biscuit

Longknives, 10.53am.

Apologies, I saw your post, moved to hit REPLY and hit REPORT instead.

DPF, you need a further option to REPLY and REPORT. I’d suggest you call it the OH.SH*T.I.DID.IT.AGAIN.CAN.YOU.IGNORE.THAT.REPORT button.

Good to hear you’re on the mend, though, Longknives…
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June 1, 2017 1:08pm
- Happychappy
  
  Biscuit:
  You haven’t reported back on the trip so what was best the match or the after match drinks.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:11pm
Reid

The British media, including the BBC has been virulently anti-Corbyn ever since he became leader of the Labour Party. This is because the Establishment genuinely fears him as he is very unlike the usual party leaders. Corbyn is a man of principle, an honest, decent human being and a true man of the people who eschews the usual trappings of power and it’s privileges and perks. They simply cannot allow an honest, decent person to become Prime Minister.

The Conservative party have spent the majority of their campaign advertising not on expousing their policies but on attacking Corbyn directly, saying that his pacifist ideals and anti-militarism are simply too big a risk, playing on the climate of fear that has existed for quite some time and was ramped up by the Manchester bombing last week.

The principles Corbyn has stuck to throughout a political career of over 30 years reads like a laundry list nightmares to the Establishment:

Corbyn wants to dissolve NATO
Corbyn is a staunch supporter of nuclear disarmament
Corbyn would recognise Palestine as an independent state
Corbyn doesn’t believe military action is the way to solve terrorism
Corbyn opposes selling arms to evil dictatorships like Saudi Arabia
Corbyn is an environmentalist who believes we must take serious action to protect the future of the planet
Corbyn believes in building a strong and well funded NHS and social care system
Corbyn favours re-nationalising many of the national prize assets that have been sold off such as the railways and the utilities
Corbyn doesn’t buy into the whole ‘War On terror’ bullshit

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/05/30/british-media-heavily-biased-against-corbyn/

In the link there’s a photo with this caption:

Jeremy Corbyn taking the night bus home after a hard day in the Commons. How many other top politicians do this? The answer is none, they are all in it for the money. This photo was posted on Twitter last year by a lady who thought people should see that Corbyn is a stark contrast to the usual fat cat political whores.

True, ain’t it. I feel sorry for people who can only analyse politics along the two-legs-good|four-legs-bad dichotomy. Such people know nothing about how it really works.
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June 1, 2017 1:34pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  I admire Corbyn’s sincerity.
  He’s an honest, decent Communist. They’re hard to come by, nowadays.
  
  //
  
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  June 1, 2017 3:04pm
Rich Prick

You know you’ve hit rock bottom when a company called Squatty Potty kicks you to the curb.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/05/31/squatty-potty-drops-kathy-griffin-after-photo-shoot-with-bloodied-trump-mask-secret-service-to-investigate-says-report.html
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June 1, 2017 1:59pm
- SGA
  
  I’d have thought that you’d reached rock bottom (was that choice of phrase intentional, btw) when you were having to advertise for a company called Squatty Potty in the first place?
  
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  June 1, 2017 2:08pm
Reid

More feminists and SJW’s getting destroyed. The owned compilation.

Fuck this is funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRZlHb2sXS8

So many snowflakes, feminists, lefties and SJW’s just getting utterly slammed time and time and time and time again.

As a white man this is validating all of my prejudices and makes me feel even more superior as I watch these vapid and shallow excuses for actual people melt away in the furnace of white manlihood and patriarchal power.
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June 1, 2017 2:13pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  manlihood
  
  Now, that’s a quaint old term….
  
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  June 1, 2017 5:50pm
  - Kea
    
    Get back in the kitchen and cook the man some eggs 🙂
    
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    June 1, 2017 7:37pm
Manolo

Crooked Hillary’s fantasy world:
http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/still-sore-hillary-blames-dnc-scotus-1000-russian-agents-loss/

While Clinton told Mossberg and Swisher she did not engage in lies during her campaign, she said Trump’s side did.

Clinton also raised the theory that “1,000 Russian agents” were working every day to make sure that distorted “content” was appearing before internet users. Clinton did not cite her source for the claim.
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June 1, 2017 3:01pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Source? Well, we all know her sauce is vodka and it need not be cited every time.
  
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  June 1, 2017 3:12pm
- KevinH
  
  The Russkies must be laughing that the internet has given them the ultimate tool for influencing global public opinion without having to spend billions on high tech weapons of mass destruction or by having to employ old school cloak and dagger spies.
  Hell all they have to do is open a media outlet ( R.T.) and plant fake news all over the place.Easy as.
  For instance they could plant a story that Hillary is shagging her chauffeur and the story would get 10 million hits a week.
  
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  June 1, 2017 3:27pm
  - nasska
    
    …..”a story that Hillary is shagging her chauffeur “…..
    
    No one would believe it. She could walk stark naked through the sex offenders wing of the local high security state prison & emerge untouched! ?
    
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    June 1, 2017 4:00pm
  - Gruffydd
    
    Other groups are using the internet for propaganda.
    There are firms using social media to push memes like the pizzagate nonsense.
    They data mine susceptible targets from browsing habits. Once enough carries are infected such disinformation takes on a life of its own on twitface.
    
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    June 1, 2017 4:07pm
    - Jack5
      
      Griff/Gruffydd notes: “Other groups are using the internet for propaganda.”
      
      Like this global warming stuff?
      
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      June 1, 2017 4:24pm
  - Reid
    
    Kev it wouldn’t work. See, their readers are too intelligent to buy the kind of bullshit Westerners buy 24/7/365.
    
    If they tried that on them their ratings would tank, their audience would see through it in a heartbeat.
    
    Whereas in the West it appears to be a competition amongst the channels to see how palpably moronic they can possibly become before anyone actually notices.
    
    Of course many Westerners noticed long ago and don’t watch it anymore. I haven’t bought a Western paper, news magazine or watched any news show since around 2005. And evidently there are plenty like me, hence their disastrous ratings.
    
    But clearly there are, sadly (for those still watching), still many dribbling idiots left amongst the lower levels of the Western collective mind who stay glued to the fake news bread and circus pap, compelled to watch, apparently. You sound like you’re one of them. I am sorry.
    
    Can I suggest you change your strategy? Just you don’t seem to understand very much at all and you might find if you do you get a bit more learned, is all.
    
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    June 1, 2017 5:10pm
    - KevinH
      
      Sad but true R.T. was designed to capture the attention of the emotionally challenged who suffer from an assortment of personality disorders which is why someone of your obvious shortcomings was compelled to watch it Reid.
      Your acute observations amount to drivel but amuse me because of their pomposity. Perhaps you should engage with people more often.
      
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      June 1, 2017 5:24pm
      - Kea
        
        KevinH if we wanted to read the brain farts of low information moral cripples we would simply look at Stuffed News or the Clinton News Network propaganda sheets.
        
        If you can’t think for yourself, and do more that paraphrase the msm narrative, then keep your mouth shut.
        
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        June 1, 2017 6:21pm
Jack5

A defeat for political correctness.

Today, June 1, the dairy industry’s big day for share milkers and their workers changing farms, has kept its name “Gypsy Day”.

The complaint of Dunedin city councillor Aaron Hawkins that the name was offensive to Gypsy (Roma) people, has been trampled into mud and cow pats by a thousand hooves.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11867384
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June 1, 2017 3:58pm
- Longknives
  
  Have a look at Aaron Hawkins on Facebook if you want a terrifying insight into the mindset of the Green Party..
  
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  June 1, 2017 4:30pm
- Kea
  
  Moving around with no homeland is also a feature of Jews.
  
  Would you have said what you did if it were named – Jew Day ?
  
  Me thinks not. Hypocrite.
  
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  June 1, 2017 5:57pm
  - KevinH
    
    We all don’t live in a sycophantic echo chamber Kea, resorting to ad hominem indicates a lack of intelligent argument and is atypical of fringe dwellers.
    
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    June 2, 2017 8:52am
Jack5

C’mon consumers, stand up to the big guys. The food magnates are lining up to fight moves to require labels to include country of origin. They say it’s too complicated.

Consumers have got a right to know if, say, Chinese garlic, is being sold as local garlic. They definitely need to know if the fish in their fish and chips is caught around NZ or is from a Vietnamese fish farm.

One of the items being used to illustrate the difficulties is sugar. Everyone knows sugar cane isn’t farmed in NZ, so that’s really a false example.

No problem with country of origin on wine labels. Why not on canned food, and on store labels for fruit and vegetables?

If all else fails, why shouldn’t it be mandatory to state whether vegetables, fruit, fish and other goods are either imported or entirely from NZ.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11867641
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June 1, 2017 4:19pm
- Kimbo
  
  1. it arguably has little/nothing to do with nutrition.
  
  2. if you really want the information, go to a food supplier who welcomes your trade by supplying the info. But forcing all of ’em? Smacks of socialism, Jack5 😉
  
  3. How do you do it with an item, say, a curry paste, with ten or more ingredients?
  
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  June 1, 2017 4:30pm
  - Jack5
    
    I think the Australian standards would be a good start (see link below).
    
    You will note that the Aussies specify which unpackaged food must contain country of origin labels. The FSANZ site gives these as examples where Australia requires country of origin to be on labels:
    
    – Fresh and sun-dried tomatoes.
    – Pprocessed ham and bacon.
    – Fresh and smoked fish fillets, and crumbed fish fillets.
    – Fresh apples and dried apples
    – Chicken, pork, beef and lamb.
    
    Kimbo, not so much nutrition, as hygiene and safety are the crux.
    
    http://www.foodstandards.govt.nz/consumer/labelling/coo/Pages/default.aspx
    
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    June 1, 2017 4:39pm
    - Kimbo
      
      Kimbo, not so much nutrition, as hygiene and safety are the ~~crux~~ pretext, local protectionism at the expense of the retailer and tax-payer (via policing the accuracy of the information) is the aim.
      
      There! Fixed that for ya, mate 😉 If it is not hygienic and/or safe, it should not be sold, irrespective of local or overseas origin. If the Aussie tomato growers want to differentiate their goods, then the voluntary label “Aussie grown” does the trick.
      
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      June 1, 2017 4:45pm
      - Kea
        
        Kimbo, I perceive Jack5 was very “calm” when he wrote that, so you should apologise for not agreeing with him. Now I want you exterminated.
        
        See how crazy that sounds ? It might pay to restrict your commentary to Gawd and other imaginary things.
        
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        June 1, 2017 5:36pm
      - nasska
        
        Do you think our friend should confine himself to fiction Kea?
        
        “Once upon a time in Never Never Land there lived a pack of rabid desert dwellers. Driven quite mad by the effects of kaneh-bosm they imagined a fairy in the sky……..”
        
        Take it away Kimbo! 🙂
        
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        June 1, 2017 5:46pm
      - Kea
        
        nasska, I suspect Kimbo is a talented writer of fantasy. While I respect his craft I notice at times he fails to differentiate between his work and reality.
        
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        June 1, 2017 5:53pm
    - Kea
      
      “I think the Australian standards would be a good start ”
      
      KB is always good for a laugh ! 🙂
      
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      June 1, 2017 5:24pm
- Kea
  
  Consumers have got a right to know if, say, Chinese garlic, is being sold as local garlic. They definitely need to know if the fish in their fish and chips is caught around NZ or is from a Vietnamese fish farm.
  
  Those bloody Asians eh Jacko …
  
  How about stuff from Israel ? What is your position on that, given that decent people don’t wish to support a rogue state committing atrocities ?
  
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  June 1, 2017 6:00pm
  - Jack5
    
    Kea, you obviously don’t mind fish from Vietnam fish farms, where the levels of chemical use, and perhaps pollution are above what is allowed in NZ.
    
    With the origin, consumers can make an informed decision.
    
    What food does NZ import from Israel? If we had origin labels we would know.
    
    It’s interesting that our food exporters proudly trumpet NZ origin as a marketing aid, yet they generally support importers in opposing compulsory origin labelling.
    
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    June 1, 2017 6:22pm
    - Kea
      
      Jack5, But how will we know they are Halal / Kosher ?
      Imagine if you got some imported sausage rolls and they were packed with pigs, hares, shrimps and oysters !
      
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      June 1, 2017 6:41pm
      - Jack5
        
        Mostof us kaffirs don’t care much how animals for meat were killed, but we’re unlikely to be buying lamb from Israel or camel from Saudi Arabia any way.
        
        Good food suppliers are proud of their origin – bananas from Ecuador, pineapples from Queensland, cheeses from Switzerland and France, dates from Saudi Arabia.
        
        NZ requires imported wines to have country of origin on their labels.
        
        I don’t know whether origin is mandatory on retail labels in China, but imported foods generally sell at a premium so supermarkets will trumpet where these are from. China also has fairly stringent labelling requirements for Customs on food imported.
        
        http://www.cirs-reach.com/food/The_labeling_requirements_on_prepackaged_foods_in_China.html
        
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        June 1, 2017 7:02pm
      - Kea
        
        “Good food suppliers are proud of their origin – ”
        
        Jack5
        Yeah I can’t ever see Indian, Thai, Vietnamese or Chinese food catching on in the same way Swiss food has. Seems every time I go down town another Swiss restaurant has opened.
        
        You are right that Asian muck will never sell around here.
        
        LOL 🙂
        
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        June 1, 2017 7:08pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I was a bit sniffy about buying/eating Vietnamese basa until my chef & I had a fab meal of it at a little drop-in place in Melbourne’s China town.
      
      Neither of us could identify the fish we were eating, so we asked….we were hooked.
      
      (wok-cooked sweet/sour)
      
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      June 1, 2017 7:21pm
      - Kea
        
        Maggy you little race traitor !
        
        Did it have one of Jack5’s labels on it so you could clearly see if it came from an Aryan nation, as opposed to those dirty little Asians Jack was breathlessly warning us about ? 🙂
        
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        June 1, 2017 7:25pm
      - Kea
        
        “tennis is full of Lesbians.”
        
        So is Pornhub. What is your point ?
        
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        June 1, 2017 7:27pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Kea
        
        The chef needs a break from Haute cuisine…we usually slum it when we’re together.
        
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        June 1, 2017 8:27pm
      - Kea
        
        If you are too lazy to thicken the gravy it is a Jus and very posh.
        
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        June 1, 2017 8:32pm
Reid

An excellent analysis of why MSM journalism is so vacuous and has all the other traits we all know and hate, by an insider.

http://www.unz.com/freed/notes-of-a-reformed-news-weasel/
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June 1, 2017 4:52pm
- jonar
  
  How do you reckon Trump would answer these?
  
  Ask journalists when they were last in a truck stop on an Interstate, last in Boone, North Carolina or Barstow, California or any of thousands of such towns across the country. Ask whether they were in the military, whether they have ever talked to a cop or an ambulance crewman or a fireman. Ask whether they have a Mexican friend, when they last ate in a restaurant where a majority of the customers were black. Whether they know an enlisted man, or anyone in the armed services. Whether they have hitchhiked overnight, baited a hook, hunted, or fired a rifle. Whether they have ever worked washing dishes, harvesting crops, driving a delivery truck. Whether they have a blue-collar friend. Know what the Texas Two-Step is, have been in a biker bar.
  
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  June 1, 2017 6:08pm
  - Reid
    
    Pretty well jonar. If he didn’t know how to relate to the flyover crowd he wouldn’t have won, would he.
    
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    June 1, 2017 6:11pm
    - jonar
      
      he wouldn’t have won, would he.
      
      Saying what people want to hear and being one of them are two different things. Snake-oil salesmen have been around for ever.
      
      For a start he doesn’t even realise that his budget will hurt those who voted for him the most.
      http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/22/trump-budget-cut-social-programs-238696
      
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      June 1, 2017 6:16pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    http://www.overdriveonline.com/trump-meets-with-truckers-at-white-house/
    
    You really know fuck all Jonah.
    Politico- snigger. They call it a ‘cut’ when really it’s stopping the growth of spending.
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/30/fact-check-does-the-trump-budget-gut-medicaid/
    
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    June 1, 2017 6:55pm
Inandout

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/31/media/cnn-kathy-griffin/

I wonder if CNN was flooded with irate advertisers threatening to withdraw over the sick kathy griffin video? Still she has set a new low in US media, and when the snowflakes next try to get rid of a Fox employee, griffin’s example can be wheeled out.

One comment on the video, and how true:

‘Kathy Griffin is exactly why I left the Democratic party and voted for Trump.
The party is scary now…it reminds me of the brainwashed freaks of the Khmer Rouge.
How scary they are educating the gullible youth in all our universities.
Soon, they’ll just take your stuff and shoot you’.
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June 1, 2017 5:10pm
Kea

Anti male hate group demands clothing store stop selling T-Shirts. They should have told the dyke bitches where to to go. Or perhaps work on the horrific levels of domestic violence in Lesbian relationships.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/93214981/glassons-pulls-tshirts-after-copying-charity-design
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June 1, 2017 5:27pm
sooty

Goverment going to give maori 4 million to sit their drivers liecance to enable them to obtain a job. But since when did they need a liecence to drive the stolen getaway car!
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June 1, 2017 6:01pm
- Kea
  
  Clever National.
  
  The alternative is spend 100 million on cops/courts catching and processing unlicensed drivers. Then we have the cost of accidents caused by unqualified drivers.
  
  Pragmatic policy, though it is clearly racist. Poor low literacy whites won’t get it. That is wrong.
  
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  June 1, 2017 6:16pm
Kea

stephieboy
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

stupidboy, I guess with Ramadan fasting the low blood sugar is making you more moronic than usual.

At least you can have a big feed of pulled-pork once the sun goes down. You can let a dog lick your fingers clean after, before sending your sister down to the bottle store in a mini skirt and boob tube to get some beerzies. 🙂
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June 1, 2017 6:28pm
Morrissey

She’s a liar, you can’t trust her

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxN1STgQXW8
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June 1, 2017 7:02pm
- Swifty
  
  Then why is she about to win the next general election?
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:20pm
  - Gabby
    
    Because it’s the most important general election
    
    IN
    
    her lifetime
    
    x100.
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:10pm
Maggy Wassilieff

It has taken 15 years for our top educators to figure out that the NCEA system is still stuffed.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/93216343/report-recommends-students-enrol-in-fewer-ncea-credits
My youngest had assessments for her 120 credits in year 11 and 60+ in year 12…. by year 13 she was over it…Assessments every week or so sure turns some kids off school work.
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June 1, 2017 7:05pm
- Jack5
  
  Should we go back to an examinations system, Maggy?
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:13pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    One exam/subject at the end of the year sure suits lazy bods like the hubby & me.
    
    Actually, it makes miles more sense for science & maths subjects when you can pull all strands together to tackle questions.
    I Can’t see the point of having a pass in “Electricity & Magnetism” and a big fail in “Forces”
    
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    June 1, 2017 7:39pm
- Kea
  
  Did you try thrashing her within an inch of her life, if she were lucky ? 🙂
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:14pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Never laid a finger on my precious…
    besides there were other fun things to do at her school….like hang around with Young Labour mates….
    
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    June 1, 2017 7:33pm
- Johnboy
  
  I thought you were far too bloody old to have a ‘youngest’ Maggie! 🙂
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:19pm
  - Jack5
    
    There’s nothing like an autumn leaf to lighten up the senior years.
    
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    June 1, 2017 7:39pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    JEEEEEEZ, I’m not 80 yet.
    
    Admittedly I was over 16 before I gave birth to my babies….
    
    the good folk of Castlecliff despaired of me … I was still the spinster of the Parish at 17.
    
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    June 1, 2017 7:45pm
    - Johnboy
      
      You should have moved to Wainui darling.
      You’d have been a granny by 21! 🙂
      
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      June 1, 2017 7:48pm
- doggone7
  
  There’s a plan, have kids get just enough credits to get through. In year 11 all you have to do is get 80 credits achieved and you’re there.
  A bit the like old School C days – 51% in one subject and 50% in three others meant you’d passed the same as someone who just about killed themselves working hard to get 85% in five subjects.
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:24pm
  - nasska
    
    I reckon that was a great system Doggone. In 1964 I scraped SC with two sub 50’s & one sub 40 held up by a miracle mark in English.
    
    Only blotted the copybook by being expelled the next year. 🙂
    
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    June 1, 2017 7:41pm
Johnboy

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/shows/93220495/oneoff-alfa-romeo-is-best-at-concorso-deleganza-villa-deste-beauty-show

Looks like a bright red Hammerhead Shark to me! 🙂
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June 1, 2017 7:17pm
Jack5

This topic might help General Debate get to 450 posts tonight:

Margaret Court (winner of 24 Grand Slams) says tennis is full of Lesbians.

The balls are in your court, posters.

Suggested subsidiary topic: should Lesbians be spelled with a capital “L”, given that they are named for the ladies on the Greek island of Lesbos.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2017/05/31/margaret-court-says-tennis-full-lesbians-transgender-people/
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June 1, 2017 7:24pm
- Kea
  
  “tennis is full of Lesbians.”
  
  So is Pornhub. What is your point ?
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:29pm
- Johnboy
  
  They could only be Greek if they used a strapon Jack5! 🙂
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:30pm
- sam green
  
  Everybody from Lesbos is a Lesbian Jack5. Surely?
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:11pm
  - Jack5
    
    That really complicates it, Sam.
    
    We could give people from Lesbos a capital “L” as Lesbians, and lesbians who aren’t from Lesbos a small “l”.
    
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    June 1, 2017 8:43pm
    - sam green
      
      We could – if we cared.
      
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      June 1, 2017 9:11pm
Jack5

And another bone some of us might like to gnaw on …

Another diversity dividend…

Oxford University, an important part of English intellectualism for 920 years, has caved into multiculturists and makes a paper on non-white history compulsory. More moves to force the great university into a multiculturist mode.

This follows the campaign against statues of Rhodes, including by African students whose study at Oxford is finance by Rhodes’s legacy.

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/oxford-university-caves-on-compulsory-black-history-exams-activists-demand-more/
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June 1, 2017 7:27pm
- Johnboy
  
  Africans are well enough endowed so they don’t need a strapon Jack5! 🙂
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:33pm
- Kea
  
  ” a paper on non-white history compulsory.”
  
  Written and researched by white historians.
  
  Do the uppity non-whites have to study white history and learn how whites were primitive tribal societies not too long ago, and therefore there is nothing special or unique about brown culture ?
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:33pm
  - Johnboy
    
    “therefore there is nothing special or unique about brown culture ?”
    
    Course there is. The bastards were too dumb to invent metals or the wheel! 🙂
    
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    June 1, 2017 7:36pm
    - Kea
      
      The darkies bet Europeans to that actually. They had developed technology when our lot were still sitting around in rotting animal skins picking lice from their beards. The Indians and Chinese especially.
      
      The rise of YT is a fairly recent affair.
      
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      June 1, 2017 7:42pm
      - Jack5
        
        The Greeks were civilised pretty early, Kea.
        
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        June 1, 2017 8:58pm
      - Kea
        
        Jack5 yeah and look at them now. Sitting there among the rubble, broke and surrounded by crumbling statues of naked men. 🙂
        
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        June 1, 2017 9:23pm
Kea

Someone @ 1:16PM is not getting any cock.
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June 1, 2017 7:40pm
- Johnboy
  
  Were you having lunch at 1:16 Kea luv? 🙂
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:49pm
- nasska
  
  You could always step up to the mark & help out Kea.
  
  Let us know how it works out. 🙂
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:50pm
  - Johnboy
    
    I really prefer brawny ex-truckies with tattooed biceps to birds nasska dahling! 🙂
    
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    June 1, 2017 7:54pm
    - nasska
      
      Bully for you JB but go & take a look at 1.16pm. 🙂
      
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      June 1, 2017 7:56pm
    - Kea
      
      “I really prefer brawny ex-truckies with tattooed biceps to birds ”
      
      Girls are for sissies.
      
      2 0
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      June 1, 2017 8:02pm
      - Johnboy
        
        nasska’s really a girly girls sort of girl Kea…not a sissy at all! 🙂
        
        2 1
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        June 1, 2017 8:06pm
      - nasska
        
        If you’re going for sex re-alignment surgery don’t try to to it on the cheap.
        
        Best bit of advice my mother ever gave me. 🙂
        
        1 0
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        June 1, 2017 8:13pm
  - Kea
    
    I will do her wearing my John Key mask and a Trump campaign cap.
    
    4 0
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    June 1, 2017 7:56pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    You all know that that’s not biologically possible.
    
    1 0
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    June 1, 2017 7:57pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      @nasska
      
      Have you forgotten that exchange a year or so ago about the trouble determining a Kea’s sex.
      Lack of a penis is such a handicap.
      http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2016/02/general_debate_13_february_2016.html/comment-page-4#comment-1666990
      
      2 0
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      June 1, 2017 8:16pm
      - nasska
        
        I’d forgotten about that debate Maggy. We never did get to the bottom of the mystery. 🙂
        
        2 0
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        June 1, 2017 8:22pm
      - Johnboy
        
        Feathered strapon’s unavailable are they?
        
        What a fuckin shame! 🙂
        
        2 1
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        June 1, 2017 8:24pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @nasska
        
        As I recall we couldn’t find someone willing to poke a finger up Kea’s cloaca.
        
        Fortunately science has moved on and all we require is a tape of Kea singing.
        https://avianres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40657-015-0033-y
        
        2 0
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        June 1, 2017 8:38pm
      - nasska
        
        …..”Fortunately science has moved on”…..
        
        And we’re all the richer for that. Sounds far less messy. 🙂
        
        2 0
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        June 1, 2017 8:43pm
- Jack5
  
  Ah, Penny the welder.
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:54pm
  - sooty
    
    Ah, Penny the grinder.
    
    1 0
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    June 1, 2017 9:03pm
Jack5

C’mon in Hugh …

Stamp duty on foreigners buying property in Sydney is to be ramped up from July 1. This was announced today.

Nhttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-01/foreign-property-investors-in-sydney-hit-with-higher-stamp-duty
3 0
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June 1, 2017 7:48pm
- Kea
  
  Jack5 you understand you are a foreigner over there ?
  This is a move to keep people like you out.
  
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  June 1, 2017 7:58pm
Johnboy

49 more seems almost within reach tonight. 🙂
2 1
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June 1, 2017 8:14pm
Johnboy

Anyway just in case Milky’s watching I have a much better number….47! 🙂 🙂
1 1
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June 1, 2017 8:20pm
Kea

Hitler was rampantly gay.

That explains the uniforms I guess 🙂

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Hitler
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June 1, 2017 8:29pm
- Johnboy
  
  Anything translated by a chap named John Brownjohn has to be taken with a tad of condiment Kea old chap.
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:34pm
- sam green
  
  Hitler – part of the Yiannopolous set?
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:19pm
  - Kea
    
    sam the evidence would tend to suggest he was indeed a gaylord. Nazi themes have remained popular to this day in the gay community and are common attire in Hagley Park and surrounding regions of Christchurch.
    
    The local branch of the National Front (Christchurch membership 342,0000) refers to “front” in the context of it being a “front” for Nazi-Gay events.
    
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    June 1, 2017 9:36pm
    - sam green
      
      Christchurch – such a gay town – who would have thought. I may pop down to Hagley Park to watch the marching processions of gaylords in nazi uniform. Could be fun. Will Milo be there? D’ya think?
      
      3 1
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      June 1, 2017 11:00pm
      - stigie
        
        Dad will show you around sam, if it becomes a bit complicated ole chap..?
        
        1 0
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        June 1, 2017 11:08pm
  - Inandout
    
    If only Adolph had Milo’s IQ then the Nazi Party would have never got off the ground. On the subject of IQ, if 60 to 80% of the quotient is inherited, where does that leave the thickos offspring? A depressing thought.
    
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    June 1, 2017 10:03pm
nasska

Gandalf: “A wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He
arrives precisely when he means to.”

Frodo: “You’re not fooling anyone. That was premature ejaculation & you know it.”
3 2
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June 1, 2017 8:45pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Nasska:
  
  “I am old, Gandalf. I don’t look it, but I am beginning to feel it in my heart of hearts. Well-preserved indeed! Why, I feel all thin, sort of stretched, if you know what I mean: like butter that has been scraped over too much bread. That can’t be right. I need a change, or something.”
  
  I now realise that Bilbo was speaking in code!
  
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  June 1, 2017 8:51pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Fletch had issues with this passage from Into the River:
  
  Tania had Devon’s jeans off much faster than he managed to clear the hooks on her bra. The urgency now bordered on panic. Then she had his cock in her wet hand. He gasped. The next thing was he felt a fluttering convulsion and came immediately, draping the wall of the bathroom with a ribbon of sperm.
  
  I wonder if Fletch prefers this Lord of the Rings version?
  
  “Pippin glanced in some wonder at the face now close beside his own, for the sound of that laugh had been gay and merry. Yet in the wizard’s face he saw at first only lines of care and sorrow; though as he looked more intently he perceived that under all there was a great joy: a fountain of mirth enough to set a kingdom laughing, were it to gush forth.”
  
  I suppose “a fountain of mirth enough to set a kingdom laughing, were it to gush forth” is slightly less direct than “he felt a fluttering convulsion and came immediately, draping the wall of the bathroom with a ribbon of sperm” 🙂
  
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  June 1, 2017 9:05pm
  - sam green
    
    Is it your wank night Nostradamus?
    
    1 1
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    June 1, 2017 9:22pm
    - Kea
      
      If I read much more of Nosty’s smut I might need one 🙂
      
      2 0
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      June 1, 2017 9:26pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Good evening Sam.
      
      You’re a bit late to the party. Masturbation was discussed at length (pun intended) on yesterday’s GD thread.
      
      2 0
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      June 1, 2017 9:29pm
      - sam green
        
        Bugger.
        
        2 0
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        June 1, 2017 9:32pm
      - sam green
        
        Oops – I started a new thread.
        
        2 0
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        June 1, 2017 9:33pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        “Bugger” – Sorry Sam, but you’ll have to contain yourself until the next full moon, when Kiwiblog will host a Hagley Park theme night!
        
        1 0
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        June 1, 2017 9:38pm
      - sam green
        
        Excellent. Will dad4 be there?
        
        4 0
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        June 1, 2017 9:47pm
jonar

Just a public service announcement for this comment that got 45 upticks

emmess
Can someone please explain to me how a show called ‘Find me a Maori bride’ is not racist?

It’s not racist because the show is a piss-take of “The Bachelor”.
4 3
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June 1, 2017 9:15pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Crikey chaps… could you attach a warning to some of your posts?
It’s costing me a fortune in discrete hygiene products.
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June 1, 2017 10:21pm
Maggy Wassilieff

NZ – educated doctor in critical condition after a coward punch
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11867850
1 1
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June 1, 2017 10:39pm
- Kea
  
  Liar. I read the article.
  
  He was hassling a psychiatric patient who was having a calming smoke outside and harming no one.
  
  The patient was overwhelmed and struck out. That is not a coward punch, which is a random punch from behind.
  
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  June 2, 2017 7:12am
Inandout

Go the Donald!
1 0
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June 2, 2017 7:39am

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