General Debate 3 April 2017

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Paulus Gnome

English about to make an announcement about the Hagar Shit and Run novella.

I will be extremely disappointed if he opts to have a commission of enquiry or any enquiry for that matter.
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April 3, 2017 8:03am
- VicParking
  
  Just kicked it into touch again
  
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  April 3, 2017 8:12am
  - ztev
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Does that mean a ‘review’ to see if they need an inquiry ?
    
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    April 3, 2017 8:45am
- publicwatchdog
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Why?
  
  Scared you mightn’t like some of the FACTS and EVIDENCE that may be revealed?
  
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  April 3, 2017 11:29am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    No, I am afraid that this sort of speculation bursting into print as fact then being challenged to ‘prove it is not true’ has the ability to become the ‘norm’
    
    All this shit raking, email thieving, churnalist blackmailing, politically motivated musings, incur great time and expense to rebuff with all the resultant publicity for the author.
    
    Pay your rates and stop continuing to be a burden on MY rates Penny
    
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    April 3, 2017 11:58am
    - Swifty
      
      Hear hear.
      
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      April 3, 2017 1:00pm
  - stephen2d
    
    Penny and the facts! 😀
    
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    April 3, 2017 3:54pm
    - sooty
      
      She would not know a fact if it bit her on the arse!
      
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      April 3, 2017 4:22pm
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Bill English has reviewed the “FACTS and EVIDENCE” Penny, and there will be no inquiry. Good show.
    
    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/no-inquiry-into-hit-run-allegations-pm/
    
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    April 3, 2017 4:23pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Well said that man
      
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      April 3, 2017 4:56pm
    - publicwatchdog
      
      So the NZ Defence Force get to ‘investigate’ themselves?
      
      VERY ‘independent’.
      
      NOT.
      
      Seems that ‘OUR’ NZ Defence Force is fiercely independent of ‘OUR’ NZ Government?
      
      Where’s the ‘civilian control’ of our NZ Defence Force?
      
      Seems they are a law unto themselves?
      
      What sort of ‘democracy’ is this corrupt, polluted tax haven, otherwise known as New Zealand?
      
      One door closes – another door opens ……
      
      Silly Billy 🙁
      
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      April 3, 2017 5:05pm
      - simpleton1
        
        a rate haven, for some.
        
        the pollution of cleaning out a bank haven accounts
        
        https://occupysavvy.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/penny-bright-fails-to-co-opt-occupy-auckland-again/
        
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        April 3, 2017 5:10pm
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Mad, barking mad.
        Does the Auckland Council have a loophole to let lunatics off paying their rates?
        
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        April 3, 2017 8:11pm
      - Nookin
        
        The right to be appraised of any accusation and to have the opportunity to respond is a concept with which you struggle Penelope.
        
        It is a concept also wholly alien to Hagar’s way of doing things. That is why he declined to give Defence even a whiff of his subject, let alone giving them a chance to be heard before his book launch.
        
        He even planned the release at a time when the head honchos were overseas so he could create as much prejudice as he could before they got back.
        
        Yet again, you demonstrate that you are driven by deep-seated bigotry and an insatiable desire to grandstand for the sole purpose of sating your ego’s thirst for publicity.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:41pm
      - Keeping Stock
        
        Quite so Nookin. Penny clearly doesn’t subscribe to either the concept of natural justice, or the presumption of innocence.
        
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        April 4, 2017 7:26am
MT_Tinman

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/91114056/warning-issued-after-christchurch-hospital-nurse-assaulted-on-her-way-to-work

You build a hospital that close to a mosque and look what happens.
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April 3, 2017 8:08am
- Dave Mann
  
  I’m not a defender if Muslims by any means, but I think you’re jumping to unjustifiable conclusions here. The mosque isn’t a place where Muslims live 24/7 in big numbers and gun crime (fake or otherwise) could be literally any lowlife mugger, not necessarily Muslim.
  
  Whoever is responsible, though, I think it’s reprehensible that the solution is left to hospital security when the clear responsibility is surely for the Police to increase their patrols to protect our citizens. Isn’t that what the f*****g POLICE are meant to DO?
  
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  April 3, 2017 8:37am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Isn’t that what the f*****g POLICE are meant to DO?
    
    Crime is a cost centre
    Traffic offence is a profit centre.
    They’re focused accordingly.
    
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    April 3, 2017 4:05pm
- MrTips
  
  Tinman, frankly, that’s one of the stupidist comments I’ve read on here for a long time (and I believe Islam is a Judeo/Christian heresy at best).
  
  Its more likely to be a meth-addled construction worker or a gang related related idiot.
  Construction/gangs/drugs: they go together like cheese and toast.
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:30am
  - Black with a Vengeance
    
    More likely someone in desperate need of better mental health coverage.
    
    Seems to be alot of leeway given to patients wnadering the streets who should probably be under lock and key for their own safety and the wider public’s safety.
    
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    April 3, 2017 10:41am
- Postitrote
  
  Read the article twice, found no mention of the offender’s race or religion, so how on earth do you link a mosque to this? Reminds me of my neighbour blaming chemtrails for her plants dying – logic trail went something like: I’ve heard chemtrails are bad + something bad happened to me, therefore it was chemtrails that did it.
  
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  April 3, 2017 1:11pm
- realityczech
  
  The yanks bomb hospitals near mosques. They just the nod from the chosen ones.
  
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  April 3, 2017 5:03pm
dime

i could be wrong…

but in the last 6 years or so.. hasnt there been 3 women go missing in the waitakeres? never found?

is there a serial killer out there? or have i just watched too much criminal minds?
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April 3, 2017 8:11am
- cmm
  
  No doubt Scorpion will tell us.
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:23am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  The Mercer Loop track in the Waitakere ranges has a viewing platform, near vertical cliffs that have a 500-foot vertical drop into the sea.
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:38am
- Longknives
  
  I think it’s less sinister but equally sad- For weird reasons the Media can’t talk about the ‘S’ word.
  A recent article on the missing jogger said Police had been talking to her ‘Healthcare Professionals’
  Just reading between the lines…
  
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  April 3, 2017 10:14am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Publicising any suicide or school shooting or eating disorders increases occurrence of them. So probably a better policy to minimise their reportage.
    
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    April 3, 2017 1:36pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      They seem not to report the truth or facts either but I am up to speed what our marvellous Lizze is thinking or pontificating about
      
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      April 3, 2017 1:44pm
oldpark

Flap jaw Angry Andrew Little Mr 7% ,better known as Laughing girl Arderns understudy, is appearing in court at 10.00am. Wonder will his defence be “You dont get me i’m part of the union”.
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April 3, 2017 8:12am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Not a byte on stuff.co.nz. nor The horrid.
  
  Thank God for blogs.
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:07am
  - PhilP
    
    News report on NewstalkZB this morning.
    
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    April 3, 2017 12:07pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Ah that classic: Strawbs – Part of the Union
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:28am
- GazzaW
  
  It’s not going to happen – ztrev said so.
  
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  April 3, 2017 10:39am
  - sooty
    
    Ztev, knows all!
    
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    April 3, 2017 4:28pm
- oldpark
  
  Court now in session, ,jury has been sworn in. Case expected to last five days. Laughing girl Ardern ,hasn’t been spotted yet.
  
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  April 3, 2017 11:04am
Captain Mainwaring

Angry’s big day today. Will Airhead be in the public gallery cheering him on?
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April 3, 2017 8:13am
- VicParking
  
  No she will be in the parliament measuing up for new curtains for the leader of the oppositions office
  
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  April 3, 2017 8:35am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    And will the curtains clash with her outfit when the Women’s Weekly calls over for an ‘impromptu’ photo shoot
    
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    April 3, 2017 8:52am
  - skyblue
    
    Or putting in a new shitter.
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:08am
Notsofast

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
The masterful positioning of Chloe Swarbrick at 13 on the list continues the excellent strategic planning of labour/green as they stampede to a landslide victory where Peters will gladly support a coalition that is mandated to bring sanity to immigration and the cessation of corrupt Chinese cash destroying the fabric of New Zealand society by parking it in legally secure real estate, and asa corollary forcing 45% of house sales to people who already own one or more houses. A generation of hideous obedience to letting agents and immediate online photographs of deeply invasive home inspections can still be averted. Harcourts in Hamilton use this promise as a marketing tool to their thuggish landlords who dare not meet their tenants. No pets, no security, for life.

But the youth army will rampage. Disclosure of interest. None. I am simply observing. Bye bye loser Bill.
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April 3, 2017 8:15am
- Tarquin North
  
  Chloe who?
  
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  April 3, 2017 8:26am
  - Notsofast
    
    Chloe 23% against tedious Phil who drones on and on and on. Just like Bill actually. Clean these old dogs out Chloe.
    
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    April 3, 2017 8:31am
    - holysheet
      
      At least she beat the dreadful Penny. Mind you, it wouldn’t have taken much.
      
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      April 3, 2017 8:39am
    - ztev
      
      How to be a moron in one easy step by Notsofast
      Chloe Swarbrick was 7.3% not 23%
      
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      April 3, 2017 8:52am
      - skyblue
        
        Don’t let statistics get in the way of the story.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:11am
      - Liberty
        
        Factional infighting amongst the pinkos.
        How good is that.
        
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        April 3, 2017 10:07am
    - Peter
      
      Yeah, put one of these young Greens in as Minister of Finance. Or Health. Or Education.
      
      I’m sure all those portfolios need is a idealistic post-teenager running ’em.
      
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      April 3, 2017 9:10am
      - Notsofast
        
        You completely miss the obvious point, a torrent of youth vote, who have seen their dreams snatched will vote for the party promoting this fair lass, or the party with the slightly glamorous Ardern. The nuts and bolts of governing will still be managed by the old hacks. They even understand that.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:16am
      - Peter
        
        “a torrent of youth vote, who have seen their dreams snatched will vote for the party promoting this fair lass”
        
        So are you implying these parties are just using these women as marketing fluff and their capabilities are of little concern?
        
        Sounds rather mercenary and materialist. Ideologically compromised, certainly. Also, wrong-headed. Youth don’t necessarily vote for youth any more so than I vote for men because I’m a man.
        
        Is it too hard to find women on the left who are capable and who are not Annette King?
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:19am
      - holysheet
        
        Notsofast
        slightly glamorous Ardern.
        
        Time you went to specsavers for that comment.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:22am
      - Notsofast
        
        I know who youth near me plan to vote for. They understnd that properties hold 30 to 40% of their value as a result of safe haven corruption gathered Chinese cash. That 30 to 40% has eliminated them, on average, from the market. These figures are straightforward and gleaned from mortgage managers at the banks.
        The current government have driven this with astute polling for votes from the affluent, but the course has been run, and the party is over. It is all so obvious.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:27am
      - Peter
        
        The “youth you know” – whom I’m guessing numbers less than 20 – aren’t the issue.
        
        Hundreds of thousands of them don’t vote, never have done and certainly aren’t aware of your percentages, even if they are conjecture.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:32am
      - Keeping Stock
        
        Who will Mark Lundy vote for?
        
        Oh; that’s right. He’s doing life for killing his wife and daughter, so doesn’t get to vote. Good show.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:41am
      - Notsofast
        
        Lundy will vote for Ardern I imagine, since she is calling for a criminal cases review commission. (CCRC). England and Scotland have ’em and at last count a lot of us arrived from there. She does not agree with Adams saying the system is working because pro bono activists got Teina Pora to the privy council after 22 years in jail. Getting rid of that appalling woman will be a delightful side effect in the landslide.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:49am
      - Notsofast
        
        Keeping Stock, I am unsure whether he gets to vote after the appeal court orders his release pending another trial, later in the year. Maybe a legal brain on the forum can help with that.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:54am
      - Longknives
        
        It’s a big jump from working in a Chip shop, being on the School Debating Team or Kapu Haka squad to Minister of Finance or the like!
        
        But that’s the insane reality of a Labour/Green Government…
        
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        April 3, 2017 10:18am
  - lifesgood
    
    When a party feels the need to put children in a position of power you know they are devoid of talent.
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:42am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      I wonder which was the Children’s Commissioner votes.
      
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      April 3, 2017 9:54am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Forgotten your meds this morning Notso?
  
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  April 3, 2017 8:30am
  - Notsofast
    
    Just looking for a DEBATE Captain. Last time I looked this was GENERAL DEBATE, not a ticking contest.
    
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    April 3, 2017 8:32am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Good thing it’s not a ticking contest because you are doing shit unless it is a race to the bottom with ztev in which case you are well out in front however ztev will most likely outlast your meds and pip you at the post
      
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      April 3, 2017 8:58am
    - starboard
      
      Tinfoil hat on far too tight notso…
      
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      April 3, 2017 1:16pm
- KevOB
  
  Parliamentary candidates should be required to have a minimum age of 40 at the time of nomination as a candidate. Also a minimum personal net worth of at at least $500K (and that’s light).
  
  23?
  
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  April 3, 2017 8:53am
  - Lance
    
    William Pitt, PM of Britain aged 24?
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:14am
    - kowtow
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9SQR04rVfU&list=PLRyBQzDv6s51rf5vLUFUa__pN49fJ9Ixd
      
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      April 3, 2017 9:22am
  - ztev
    
    Well national MP Todd Barclay was 24 when elected, Simon Brown , next national MP for Pakuranga is 25
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:18am
  - cmm
    
    Nope there should be no limits. Let the punters decide.
    
    You cannot convince me that an age limit will help. Look at Steffan Browning has he got any more real world experience than a 23 year old?
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:28am
  - rangitoto
    
    No so sure about this. Occasionally a good’n shows up. Alexander III of Macedon was crowned Basileus at age 20 and then went on to conquer one of the largest empires of the ancient world before the age of 30.
    
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    April 3, 2017 10:23am
    - rangitoto
      
      Mind you he did have Aristotle as his personal tutor.
      
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      April 3, 2017 10:23am
  - MCos
    
    That means I would qualify by some margin, at least agewise.
    That’s the last thing the country needs!
    
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    April 3, 2017 10:42am
  - KevOB
    
    I’ll drop the $500K for proven experience.
    How can a 23yr old have any potential for Cabinet with only uni debating, if that and expect to become a Minister of State having to excercise judgment on issues before them? Ministerial and Cabinet papers do not tell the whole story. Experience judgement is required to know what is left out. Otherwise it’s rule by the Public Service.
    
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    April 3, 2017 1:45pm
- waikatogirl
  
  I don’t get the green believing a connection between being young and therefore young being attracted to vote for young candidates. But then again, I don’t understand voting for random female candidates because I’m a woman. ?
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:03am
  - Notsofast
    
    Try informal polling youth near you. Those who voted for mayor, voted Chloe. This general election is the first since they have all given up owning a house. Informally poll on that one. Would you like your own home to raise a family in? It is rather surprising this is so little seen coming down the pike by election time. I am merely eating from the tin with common sense on the label. The current 3 % gap will be reversed to labour/green by election time purely on youth mobilisation, but I am accustomed to stating obvious facts around these parts and earning a deluge of down ticks. What do you think Waikatogirl?
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:12am
    - Peter
      
      But the youth of today have been saying they don’t want “houses”. They want “walkable, clean green cities with good public transport”
      
      That means medium to high density living
      Which means apartments
      Apartments are certainly affordable
      
      What, they thought they could constrain cities AND have an affordable four bedroom house in the leafy suburbs?
      
      That’s a bit silly, isn’t it. Have their politicians been misleading them?
      
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      April 3, 2017 9:27am
      - cmm
        
        But the youth of today have been saying they don’t want “houses”.
        
        Nope. Houses are a drag. They get messy, the garden needs weeding and the walls need painting. They want to live in mum’s basement.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:30am
      - Notsofast
        
        No sane person wants to live in a difficult to access bunker. How about a section, a car off the street, a 3 bedroom house, and a pet, maybe a couple of offspring.
        A bit like the way we grew up. But the China first policy has destroyed this common sense lifestyle. In 9 short years.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:43am
      - Peter
        
        But don’t you get it?
        
        You can’t have it both ways. Affordable suburban housing means sprawl, something the environmental lobby are firmly against.
        
        You can’t vote Green and have affordable suburban houses. You vote Green and have affordable small apartments. That is the direct result of urban land planning constraints.
        
        Very little to do with Chinese investors. Everything to do with “clean, green walkable cities with public transport”
        
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        April 3, 2017 10:08am
      - KevOB
        
        Apartments don’t work with kids. Look at the massive blocks like the former Dixon Street Flats (where I once delivered newspapers as a boy).
        The ribbon houses now appearing in new suburbs are not appealing either. The may have separate small lots and allow a walled clothesline and barbeque but they are twice the floor area required for many and overly expensive. There are lessons to be learned from reviewing the old State House program. 200m² is not required for the first home. Before opulence pushed affordability
        away most of us still worked 2 or 3 jobs to get a deposit and denied ourselves greatly while hanging out in a flat that is now regarded as unreasonable. Isn’t that though a way of recycling housing stock?
        
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        April 3, 2017 2:01pm
    - Notsofast
      
      I certainly agree that affordable housing does not flow from the pending coalition. The damage is irreversible. The kids must suck it up and wait patiently for mum and dad to die, hoping they don’t squander their illicit wealth on endless travel.
      Be wary, a lot is left unsaid by the eagle eyed, many crocodile tears to be shed at funerals.
      
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      April 3, 2017 10:16am
      - calendar girl
        
        NSF: Why do you describe ‘mum & dad’s wealth as illicit?
        
        Is that simply your ageist perspective, built on the fact that many of your elders have worked hard (and sacrificed much) for their own home – and for their comfort and security in retirement?
        
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        April 3, 2017 2:48pm
      - Notsofast
        
        I am not young. The wealth is illicit because it is an accident of history, an act of treachery.
        
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        April 3, 2017 7:44pm
    - rangitoto
      
      Do they think Chloe is going to give them a house? Openning up land for housing would appear to go against Green ideals.
      
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      April 3, 2017 10:26am
      - Notsofast
        
        Chloe can now save a deposit for a 700k dwelling in two years even in Auckland. Well done Chloe, who campaigned for mayor as one who would never own a home. The canny lass is already saying there is to be no intergenerational war.
        But the median earn is stuck at 50k gross for a coming generation, it just does not apply to the very energetic or very lucky.
        
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        April 3, 2017 10:33am
- Black with a Vengeance
  
  Chloe to drain the Green swamp then ?
  
  hope her twitter game is strong!
  
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  April 3, 2017 10:44am
Happychappy

Another week and what has the media got to say, can they come up with columns desputing Hit and Miss or will they throw their weight behind Andrew Little and his I’ll advised fight with the Hagaman’s. So to be kind the media in this Country suck as they are unethical and are not held to account for the shit they print and the lies they tell and the use of tax payers money to do it by some is in my opinion corrupt especially when you look at the Panama papers scandal. So here’s hoping Andrew has bitten off more than he can chew and his pocket is held responsible for his ignorance and stupidity.
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April 3, 2017 8:22am
- VicParking
  
  The MSM will be far away from Andy’s court case as they can get. If it does appear it will be on the bottom of page six below the report from the local cat show and above the advert for Incontinence pants.
  
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  April 3, 2017 8:29am
  - ztev
    
    Youll find it then, as thats the first place you go , page 6
    
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    April 3, 2017 8:54am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      You are on fire today ztev, have not had reason to downtick you so far however it is only 9 o’clock so there is time and I have all day
      
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      April 3, 2017 9:01am
      - ztev
        
        Im always on fire genome
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:31am
    - David Garrett
      
      ztev: but didn’t you tell us last week that this court date was just a callover? I’m sure I read that…
      
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      April 3, 2017 2:37pm
VicParking

The number of Maori in jail is high. What are the statistics for the number of Maori, especially residivists, who appear in court. How does this relate to the number in jail. I would be worried if “Race” played a part in sentencing. I’m sure however that the numbers in jail are due to them doing more crime and not the colour of their skin
Simular to Red radio this morning going on about Police “sex crimes”. The number quoted since 1979 seemed quite small compared to the number of police and the microscope placed on them. How do these numbers compare with the general population. But Wait, why let a bit of research get in the way of a good story.
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April 3, 2017 8:24am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Did you just say that you would not expect the proportion of rapists in the police force to be any lower than the proportion of rapists in the general population?
  
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  April 3, 2017 8:44am
  - Dave Mann
    
    No he didn’t. He said ‘The number quoted since 1979 seemed quite small compared to the number of police and the microscope placed on them.’ No comparison was drawn between ratios of police compared to the general population. And I don’t think he even inferred it either.
    
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    April 3, 2017 8:56am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      That wasn’t the sentence I was concerned about. Look at the next sentence: “How do these numbers compare with the general population”.
      
      What is the relevance of that information?
      
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      April 3, 2017 9:27am
      - VicParking
        
        Yes how do these numbers compare with the general population. I would assume they are much lower and thats my point. Its only Snowflakes like you that assume the worse in everything. No wonder the MSM panders to your warped minds.
        My point is that the MSM needs to look into statistics before Running after cars.
        Example is the drop in people exporting. Gone from 13k to 12k BIG STORY NO. The majority of those exported less than $500k. Realised the export market is hard and sold out or licenced to a bigger player who had contacts. I was one of those.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:43am
- KevOB
  
  I am sure that race plays a part at the police level. One of my sons had darker than “white” skin because of Chanel Islands ancestry via Spain and possibly passing pirates. What is euro skin colour?
  The police picked him out as Maori and there was differential treatment. Looking brown at first sight was a giveaway to ethnic classification. I am sure these subtle viewpoints influence all dealing with offenders or even at WINZ (or whatever incarnation that now is). “Maori” is also another imposed pseudonym for stupid, druggee, waster, shirker…. Follow the colour for the response. (The Police have set a least one dog on a child deliberately without cause.)
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:10am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Was that the 12 year old suspected of breaking into cars at 3am hiding in a kindergarten who did not surrender to police when instructed, or is there another one?
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:30am
    - KevOB
      
      I saw the dog episode: the boy had been away from home overnight and a equally wayward dog handler deliberately called his dog to attack when he was on an open playing field, unarmed, and doing nothing. This happened after both were still and the officer made a deliberate call as if to teach the boy a lesson. The distance would have been about 10m.
      Not all Police behave like that. I believe such conduct is rare. However looking brown from which can be inferred Polynesian was a potent source of nuisance.
      On balance we have a fine honest police and justice system.
      
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      April 3, 2017 2:33pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Even assuming increased criminality is partly a result of less polynesian discipline/impulse control Maori criminality is at least partly a failure of Maori culture and parenting. Maori (14.9% 0f NZers) are twice as likely to be in jail as pacific people (7.3% of NZers). Granting Maori special treatment for historical reasons is just infantilising/enabling their poor behaviour.
  
  Prisoner Ethnicity Total Percent
  Māori 4,391 51
  European 2,835 33
  Pacific peoples 1,006 12
  Asian 235 3
  Other/unknown 151 2
  Total 8,618 100
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:17am
  - holysheet
    
    Other/unknown. Who doesn’t know what race they are?
    Might be time to do a gender survey as well.
    Male 85%
    Tranny 5%
    weird fuckers 10%
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:27am
- Paulus
  
  I have just read that from the prison stats that the figures from the Bay of Plenty region that Maori make up over 70% of the prisoners.
  That is probably because the highest national population of Maori is the BOP.
  Meaningless statistics.
  
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  April 3, 2017 10:34am
  - KevOB
    
    Prisoners don’t necessarily go to the local prison either. It was more common than not to classify them and send to a prison which was hundreds of K’s away breaking family and local ties.
    The stats may be not so meaningless.
    
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    April 3, 2017 2:42pm
- Black with a Vengeance
  
  The police and judiciary use their discretionary powers to waive charges and give lesser sentences to our more eurocentric citizens.
  
  It’s because it would inhibit them getting all the good jobs and not being able to holiday overseas.
  
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  April 3, 2017 10:48am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Bullshit excuse-making victimhood enabled by leftie fuckwits. Maori need to grow up, own their failures and fix them rather than seeking someone else to blame.
    
    People only go to jail after they have done a lot of bad shit – something like 10+ court appearances on average before being sent to jail, and likely haven’t been caught out on most of what they have done given low crime clearance rates.
    
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    April 3, 2017 11:47am
    - Black with a Vengeance
      
      you wear your white male privilege so well!
      
      suits you sir…
      
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      April 3, 2017 12:20pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Sucks when data and reality doesn’t match leftie rhetoric huh? You offer nothing but weak apologetic rhetoric and sad slogans-without-substance.
        
        Civilisation doesn’t function if people don’t embrace and expect personal responsibility, rule of law and hard work. Lazy and weak blame shifting only makes outcomes worse for those the left claims to be helping – as it just excuses and enables further antisocial and personally destructive behaviour.
        
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        April 3, 2017 12:36pm
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        leftie rhetoric be damned, the proof is out there but i got better things to do than your homework!
        
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        April 3, 2017 1:00pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Seriously?
        
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        April 3, 2017 5:10pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Pre charge warnings? Ii would imagine that proportionatly more Maori would get them than non Maori, based purely on the amount of committed crime, and for youth before and FGC I would imagine. I was amazed by the options offerred in this article.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11826420
    These included the Youth Crime Action Plan, restorative justice services with Maori values, Maori and Pacifica Youth Courts and iwi panels for low level offending as a form of alternative resolution.
    
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    April 3, 2017 12:03pm
    - Northland Wahine
      
      Rachael, recently I was asked to work with Maori from the age of 18 to 24 with medical conditions. 2/3s of these people have mental health and learning disability issues. I suspect 3/4s of those will all have criminal convictions by the time they are 30, not because they are seriously criminally inclined, but are likely partake in smoking dak, drunk in a public area and or making a nuisance of themselves. That combined with not having the nounce to articulate themselves will see these people serving time.
      
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      April 3, 2017 2:08pm
      - KevOB
        
        I know there is greater enforcement by the police for white over brown. My boy, genetically brown from european heritage, was almost always regarded initially as Maori and treated different to his paleskin brother. The Courts attitude was often subtly different too when they knew he was my son and internally as white as they came. Others were treated differently.
        
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        April 3, 2017 2:49pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        I am not arguing about that, I can not imagine not being able to read, or being born with a drug addiction, those things occur because others have made those determinations for you, they are not random.
        I had what would be considered to be a ‘good’ upbringing but I had my rebellion, against I am not sure what now lol.
        
        I have no answers, but I do think that soft options do noone favours either. First time absolutely, even a second if for a different matter, but after a while it is gaming the system.
        I was talking to a sole charge cop the other day, (Polynesian) not that that should matter, (ex Auckland) now down country, he advised a youth to plead guilty to a traffic offence, it was only the second time that the youth had been in trouble per se, the cop thought that he woud get a wet bus ticket but he got imprisoned (I am sure more to the story) he felt guilty for the unexpected outcome, there are usually so many chances.
        I have done one Criminology paper and I am currently doing another, on top of two degrees, the stats are awful but I struggle with some of the ’causes’ put forward such as capitalism, sorted by the equality of socialism of course.
        A culture of being told repeatedly that you are missing out can’t help either and that you are a victim. Being a victim is not assuaged by creating other victims.
        I also do not believe that committing crime is an unconscious act. Yes things can happen while intoxicated but there are still choices made and likely consequences known, but it is worth the risk, because you are unlucky if caught every time.
        
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        April 3, 2017 5:35pm
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        Sorry, Kev @ 2.49. I accidentally reported you when I wanted to ask for more details, without being a voyeur. These experiences are completely outside my own experience and could be quite enlightening to me and others.
        
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        April 3, 2017 8:36pm
G152

liebor/greens display their kamikaze approach to politics.
Unpopular people, unknowns,seeking places at the trough, a few jibes a week and occasionally a no vote.
3 years dole
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April 3, 2017 8:27am
- KevOB
  
  Apart from an entry age for Parliament perhaps we need intelligence and work experience tests too.
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:13am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    If you don’t think a candidate’s age, intelligence or work experience qualifies him for Parliament – don’t vote for him.
    
    If other people think different, however, that is up to them and not you or anybody else.
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:30am
  - Paulus
    
    You mean like changing the toilet in her new Auckland house.
    Illegal, but goes with being member of the Fish Fryers Union.
    
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    April 3, 2017 10:35am
Shaun the Sheep

April Fools Day saw yet another incarnation of our child advocacy service. If they’re looking for appropriate names why don’t they just go for the Te Reo version of “ambulance at bottom of the cliff picking up the abused and neglected offspring of shitty parents”
I do wonder if the former CYFS couldn’t cope with the five thousand children in their care, how on earth they’d deal with the ten to fifteen thousand children estimated to be in the care of grandparents.
Seems to me that the more science and information we have the less effective our birth control is, and we now have thousands of children who cannot be given even a minimum standard of care by their parents.
Seems we could do with a Ministry for Personal Responsibility equipped with some old fashioned thumb screws and cattle prods.
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April 3, 2017 8:34am
- krazykiwi
  
  Kids thrive (or not) based on a type of Maslow hierarchy. At the top of the pyramid is love, and the existence of everything below (food, shelter, health etc) is enhanced by the presence of love, or masked by the absence of it.
  
  The only place kids can be fully loved is in the care of their biological parents. That’s doesn’t mean other parties can’t do a good job loving kids, but it does mean that – across a population – biological parents are the optimum source of the love their kids need.
  
  We’re well overdue policies that recognise this, placing good parenting at the centre of social policy.
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:03am
  - KevOB
    
    Unfortunately youthful social workers decide who is fit/unfit to be a parent. Sometimes a foster parent has helped but frequently children have been moved from one place to another with any new bonds being wrecked.
    Any placement with a known family member is better than outside the family. We only typically hear of the big news cases but the vast number are parents who cannot cope adequately. They may not be able to budget and the family fails to thrive. That’s life. Children in these circumstances are certainly best left in the wider orbit of extended family care as happened in our former villages. Where has Punket got to? The fragmentation of cities and freedom of movement has decoupled our former intrinsic support network. The social insurance paid through taxation to fix this is a poor substitute.
    The Ministry has a new title but does it have a new heart?
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:32am
    - GoVege
      
      Kev: the idea of the new legislation is to stop automatically putting neglected and abused children back into the whanau that produced abusive/ negligent familes in the first place.
      This is not a problem of budgeting etc.
      This is a problem of very troubled people having large numbers of kids from a very early age when they are barely able to take care of themselves.
      
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      April 3, 2017 4:51pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        I had my first child at 17 and my second at 28 and my third at 30, there is volition, it is easy not to compound a situation.
        Husbands, such as they were, existed, fortunately I have never felt the need to expose my children to endless step fathers.
        I know that I have a short attention span where men are concerned lol.
        Biggest mistake that these solo mothers make is giving the men money, they should not need a woman with children to support them.
        I think looking back that it is the biggest favour that I did them, they got my undivided attention, there was no competition for resources or affection. (They all turned out pretty well, all employed and employable).
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:40pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    “We’re well overdue policies that recognise this, placing good parenting at the centre of social policy.”
    
    And what might that social policy look like?
    What might be the consequences for someone who can produce children and fail to care for them (or worse)? Would more encouragement fix the problem?
    
    How do you encourage someone to budget a loaf of bread and jar of peanut butter?
    How do you encourage someone to get out of bed and send the kids off to school with a sandwich and a hug?
    How do you encourage someone to not be stoned when the kids get home from school?
    
    Children are hurting now – thousands of them.
    They don’t need more dogma.
    They need real action.
    
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    April 3, 2017 11:04am
    - GoVege
      
      People like you describe are just not cut out to be parents.
      Good parenting requires putting your kids first before your own selfish needs /addictions.
      Paying people from an early age to show up and get the contraceptive implant is the only thing that might work.
      
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      April 3, 2017 12:21pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      StS – Those are all fair concerns.
      
      The problem is that removing kids from deadbeat parents doesn’t put a fence at the top of the cliff, it just lines up fleets of ambulances. As important as this is, we’ve been doing for ages and it’s clearly not working. I’ve previously directed a national children’s NGO and this was a key focus for us.
      
      We know that a child living with it’s biological mother and father is 50x less likely to die or be seriously injured at the hands of one of their caregivers. It is called the Cinderella Effect.
      
      Where is NZ’s social policy (or even societal endorsement) that encourages biological parents to stay together as they raise their offspring?
      
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      April 3, 2017 3:03pm
      - GoVege
        
        We definitely need incentives for couples to stay together, kk.
        ATM the incentives work to break couples up, via the DPB.
        Unfortunately the culture that has all the worst stats for child bashings/killings and imprisonment doesn’t believe in contraception because “every child is a gift from God”.
        They have 4 times the rate of births to 13-17 year old’s than any other race and teenage boys are not keen to settle down to fatherhood.
        Until they start using contraception like most of the rest of us, the stats will remain the same.
        
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        April 3, 2017 4:43pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Unfortunately the culture that has all the worst stats for child bashings/killings and imprisonment doesn’t believe in contraception because “every child is a gift from God”.
        
        Not sure I understand. Could you elaborate?
        
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        April 3, 2017 8:14pm
      - GoVege
        
        KK: what it means is everything is “in God’s hands”.
        You don’t need to worry about using contraception, because if a child is born, it is “God’s will”.
        Same with putting your kids in danger: you don’t need to worry about protecting them because if something bad happens, it was “God’s will”.
        You’ll hear airheads like Tariana Turia use this one a lot.
        “Every child is wanted..a gift from God” etc.
        The facts/ stats don’t support her.
        The facts are, as you said earlier, a child is 50× safer with their biological parents than with a non-biological one.
        Which makes planning kids far better than relying on God.
        
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        April 3, 2017 11:03pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Docktor castration rings, come in packs of 500 from Acto Agriculture in Takanini, so local
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:07am
- MCos
  
  ‘Seems we could do with a Ministry for Personal Responsibility equipped with some old fashioned thumb screws and cattle prods.’
  Countries like East Germany and some of those other old Soviet Blok places had institutions like that with earnest sounding names.
  Here in NZ we try and encourage parents that the use of torture is not an ideal way to control difficult people.
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:10am
  - KevOB
    
    No. What we take for granted we can do is not unfortunately how others are enabled. Ability, intelligence and poverty are close coupled. Society is now being pushed along by high achievers with only a few backward glances at the wreckage of those unable to keep up.
    The further and faster we go the greater that wreckage will be. Now we are facing the further theft of the provision of care by reducing their work opportunities.
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:47am
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    A decade or two ago I’d have agreed with you wholeheartedly. But …
    
    “Here in NZ we try and encourage parents that the use of torture is not an ideal way to control difficult people.”
    
    And how’s that working out?
    
    While my comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, it was generated by the enormous frustration at seeing these poor kids so badly served.
    At what point do we say we’re past the ‘try to encourage’ stage and badly need to implement the ‘forced to take responsibility’ stage for the sake of the children who are having their lives ruined.
    
    Any ideas that don’t involve hand wringing?
    
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    April 3, 2017 10:53am
- KevOB
  
  No, we need to rebuild our villages in the midst of our cities and urban communities. We are always going to have the lesser-abled among us. Intelligence confers opportunity and many who cannot cope do not have the intellectual ability. Much work is requiring even more. Heresy I know now, but we once provided for these people. Now they are being called irresponsible. People don’t like paying taxes but consider some part of the taxes as paying for our cost towards human community upkeep. We are now able to move quickly and easily settle long distances away from family but the basic obligations to care for elderly parents and distressed family must remain. Tax has freed us from the village where work was provided for those who were capable and the lowliest there had place and food. A generous life was never guaranteed and some relative hardship was expected.
  Expectations have been lifted and now people who cannot cope are being put down as lacking Personal Responsibility. This is poor-house mentality which arose when the villages dispersed into towns to work in new factories.
  We are are going to face even more claims for social security when work becomes even scarcer. If a person has a right to life they have a right to an expectation to a provision for food not dependent on their ability to be able to earn to pay for it.
  
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  April 3, 2017 3:16pm
  - GoVege
    
    There is plenty of work out there for the lesser-abled Kev.
    But it will never pay enough for the lesser-abled to support 6,10 or 17 children on it.
    Why should the rest of the population be forced to pay for the support of umpteen (usually neglected if not abused) kids when there is readily available contraception out there?
    
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    April 3, 2017 5:02pm
tf78

Wussel Norman and the the Maui Dolphin.
He said last night that it would cost very little to save the dolphin – question Wussel why don’t Greenpeace spend some of their money doing something worthwhile for a change.
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April 3, 2017 8:49am
- alloytoo
  
  No No No
  
  Greenpeace NZ money must go to the International overlords to support their evergrowing carbon footprints
  
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  April 3, 2017 8:57am
- G152
  
  So far ALL the area frequented by that dolphin are off limits to commercial fishing.
  Maybe the greens should set up an anti Orca area now as the Orca is more inclined to dine on dolphin pods
  
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  April 3, 2017 10:56am
krazykiwi

Look like the Aussie public have cottoned on to hopelessly unpopular politicians trying to game support via fake initiatives. Politicians addicted to the appearance of economic success is the sorry saga of a Labor coalition government announcing a grand new hydro scheme. This was to generate the desperately needed electricity to fix the Green-led energy fiasco in South Australia.

I realised Australian government was fast approaching peak fake when I read Laura Tingle of the Financial Review’s revelation that Malcolm Turnbull’s Snowy 2.0 announcement was timed to favourably influence the imminent fortnightly Newspoll result.

When our leaders progress from being mesmerised by opinion polls to trying to game them, that’s when we know the country’s in deep, deep trouble.

It’s long been clear that, acting on their belief that “the perception is the reality”, the political class – Labor and Coalition – has focused less on attempting to fix problems and more on being seen to be fixing them.

But trying to game the political polls takes faking it to a new level: being seen to be seen to be trying to fix things.
:::
Veteran Australian National University political scientist Professor Ian McAllister says trust in politicians is at its lowest than at any time since he started surveying it all the way back to 1969.
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April 3, 2017 8:55am
Dave Mann

I’ve noticed that the demise of the editing function in the comments hasn’t noticeably made the comments less readable or coherent.

This might be due to the fact that grammar and spelling aren’t really so important in modern life after all. If so, then perhaps we should applaud the education system for its far-sighted decision to dumb down the standard of English in our schools? 😀
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April 3, 2017 9:12am
- krazykiwi
  
  You can still edit Dave. Just pop a ‘https://’ at the front of the browser link, eg
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/04/general_debate_3_april_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-1903044
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:15am
  - Dave Mann
    
    Thanks krazykiwi, I tried to do that but the browser on my phone just erased the ‘https://’ and defaulted to the standard URL. Must be a browser dependent thing… but thanks for the info.
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:27am
  - Dave Mann
    
    On wait… I think your solution actually does work for my browser… yes! Brilliant, cheers!
    
    EDIT: Yeah! Thanks krazykiwi…. how did you work this out?
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:46am
    - chris
      
      I worked it out the other day when people were talking about it in a post on I think Friday. The catch is, changing to https breaks other stuff.
      
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      April 3, 2017 10:24am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Or we are proof reading more thoroughly before we post!!
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:41am
  - Dave Mann
    
    Hahaha, that’s a possibility too 😀
    
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    April 3, 2017 9:50am
    - Happychappy
      
      I could use this as a excuse Dave .
      
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      April 3, 2017 3:36pm
      - Dave Mann
        
        :-D:-D
        
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        April 3, 2017 7:06pm
Jack5

Gareth Morgan party’s policy takes an interesting view of NZ’s welfare state, according to a Morgan Foundation researcher in Stuff today.

Jess Berentson-Shaw makes some interesting comments on how welfare payments’ structure can penalise those seeking work. She argues this contributes to the labour shortage that fuels employer demand for imported labour.

She’s more constructive approach than, in the same article. a Northland horticulturist who says employing locals makes no economic sense.

He better prepare for a business re-think if a National Coalition isn’t running the country after the general election.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/91047042/welfare-system-may-be-to-blame-for-empty-jobs
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April 3, 2017 9:21am
Hugh Pavletich

Residential property becoming a buyer’s market as rush of new listings and rising stock of properties for sale give buyers more choice | interest.co.nz

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/86815/residential-property-becoming-buyers-market-rush-new-listings-and-rising-stock

The latest figures from Realestate.co.nz suggest the residential property market is becoming more of a buyer’s market.

The specialist property website added 13,069 new properties that were listed for sale in March, up 10.8% compared to February and up by the same amount compared to March last year.

It was the highest number of new sale listings the website has received in a March month in five years, and only the second time in the last 10 years that new listings in March have exceeded new listings in February. Read more via hyperlink above …

Is the Auckland land bubble about to burst? – NZ NBR / MacroBusiness Australia

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/03/auckland-land-bubble-burst/

New Zealand’s National Business Review (NBR) has posted an interesting article today on how New Zealand’s Australian-owned banks have halted lending for projects on development land, which risks sending developers to the wall and causing a “freefall in prices over the next two years”: … read more via hyperlink above

The Auckland housing market is on the verge of losing all the capital gains it made in the last 12 months | interest.co.nz

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/86771/auckland-housing-market-verge-losing-all-capital-gains-it-made-last-12-months

By Greg Ninness

The Auckland housing market is on the verge of having all of the capital gains it made in the last 12 months wiped out.

Prices of Auckland properties have fallen so much in the last few months that median prices are within a hair’s breadth of going into negative territory on an annual basis.

They may already be there. … read more via hyperlink above …

… A great pity John Key didn’t get on to this out of the 2008 election … as promised … view and read more at …

Performance Urban Planning
… just updated …
http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/
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April 3, 2017 9:23am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Four times in as many days that you have had the article about Auckland losing 12 months of capital gain Hugh, even you have to admit that it is becoming a bit tedious.
  
  Have you thought of getting a new hobby like watching paint dry, becoming a tide monitor or better still become a real estate agent and berate the living bejezus out of what will be your very small, very select, client base
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:41am
  - starboard
    
    Become a tide monitor..very good I like that !
    
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    April 3, 2017 3:19pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      it is actually my dream retirement position; I am hoping I can be on the living wage from Auckland Council.
      
      I have to report twice a day; tide is in, tide is out.
      
      Sounds easy, not everyone could handle the tedium but at $175,200.00 per annum (24 x 7 x 365 plus an extra $480.00 for leap years) I am prepared to give it a go!
      
      It is a quality responsible position as you never know if the tide is going to change and one was not made aware, it is a health and safety issue!
      
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      April 3, 2017 5:52pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Boring, boring, boring, boring, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive…………….
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:44am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    UPDATE: AUSTRALIAN RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION APPROVALS … ABS …
    
    Behind paywall … MacroBusiness Australia …
    
    … What happens to New Zealand if Australia powers up its detached housing production as apartment construction eases going forward ? …
    
    … Compare the approval rates per 1000 population per annum for both countries … and trends …
    
    Dwelling approvals bounced back in February … Leith van Onselen … MacroBusiness Australia
    
    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/04/dwelling-approvals-bounced-back-february/
    
    The Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) has released dwelling approvals data for the month of February. At the national level, the number of dwelling approvals rose by a seasonally adjusted 8.3% to 18,995. The overall increase was broad-based, with both unit & apartment approvals (+10.9%) and detached house approvals (+5.3%) rising.
    
    In the year to February 2017, dwelling approvals fell by a seasonally-adjusted 4.9%, with unit approvals down by 3.8% and detached house approvals down by 5.4%: …
    
    … Since peaking in March 2015, dwelling approvals nationally have fallen by 13% in trend terms.
    
    There were 229,094 approvals in the year to February 2017 – below the peak of 241,708 approvals in the year to August 2016 – with most of this growth in approvals coming from units and apartments, which are still running at more than twice the 30-year average. …
    
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    April 3, 2017 4:32pm
    - Hugh Pavletich
      
      Further reading …
      
      Why our regulators are losing sleep over housing … Australian Broadcasting Corporation
      
      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-03/why-our-regulators-are-losing-sleep-over-housing/8409646
      
      China Has Its Worst-Ever Start to a Year For Defaults … Bloomberg
      
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-02/china-just-had-its-worst-ever-start-to-a-year-for-bond-defaults
      
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      April 3, 2017 4:56pm
Yvette

SAS
Paul Buchanan [thespinoff] disagrees the Police are the most appropriate to investigate Operation Burnham – because of the operational overlap that occurs between the two from time to time.

Instead, it seems reasonable to convene a Board of Inquiry chaired by the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security (IGIS), Cheryl Gwyn.

This is one of the most sensible views I have read on the whole matter – that the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security investigate Nicky’s book.
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April 3, 2017 9:28am
- cmm
  
  The whole idea of an investigation is a crock.
  
  When the cops decide to charge someone they need to satisfy two criteria: do they think there was a misdeed and do they have enough evidence to make a case stick.
  
  Same here.
  
  There are at least two questions that need to be answered with Yes to be able to hold an inquiry:
  
  1) Is there a potential that there was some misdeed? Sure there is a possibility, but it is highly speculative, so we’ll give that a tentative Yes.
  
  2) It was almost 7 years ago. What’s the chance of holding an effective inquiry seven years after the allegations took place? People’s memories change. There is no physical evidence. There is no proper documentation. Therefore No.
  
  If the inquiry has no chance of reaching an effective conclusion then there really is no point in holding one.
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:40am
  - Brigitte
    
    If I was the PM then I’d say that there is some doubt as to the accuracy given a couple of errors already noted. Therefore, each statement will need to be properly checked with follow up questions required. The relevance of that last sentence is that ALL sources in the book will need to be named and passed to the enquiry. What odds on Hager ponying up that info?
    
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    April 3, 2017 11:07am
    - cmm
      
      Quite
      
      Nobody really cares about adults being killed (particularly men).
      
      The real key to the emotional impact of these claims is the killing of little 3 year old Fatima.
      
      There is no evidence that Fatima was killed due to the actions of the SAS.
      
      Heck, there’s not even evidence little Fatima ever existed.
      
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      April 3, 2017 11:56am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Can we do an informal poll? I vote no to an inquiry.
  What axe is Paul Buchanan grinding?
  As an aside I have never ever liked a Paul lol, so I could be biased.
  
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  April 3, 2017 11:53am
Jack5

The edit function is working again. Good.
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April 3, 2017 9:30am
- Dave Mann
  
  Oh shit…. I’d just started to use krazykiwi’s excellent workaround….
  
  EDIT: You’re correct! lol
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:56am
krazykiwi

I know I shouldn’t be … but I am amazed at the lack of MSM coverage* of Angry’s day in court.

If this had been John Key, Wellington streets would be log jammed with studio vans, hordes of reporters would have camped out overnight, there’d be helicopters in the air, and messrs Garner and Campbell would be competing in a breathlessness competition.

*Well done to Newshub for carrying the story.
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April 3, 2017 9:44am
Keeping Stock

It’s 9.45am, the jury will have arrived, the selection process will start shortly, and I suspect Andrew Little is quaking in his boots.

Here’s a message for Mr Little; every action has a consequence. You’d think they would have taught you that at law school, but perhaps you skipped that lecture.

In any event, defamation is an expensive business, but it could all have been avoided if only you were big enough to admit you were wrong; when Mrs and Mrs Hagaman asked you to, not now when an apology via the media is too little, too late (unintentional pun).
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April 3, 2017 9:46am
- Dave Mann
  
  Yes well said. After reading the Newshub story, it seems that this idiotic man has had every opportunity to get himself out of the shit and it need never have come to this.
  
  I predict that he’ll lose big time. The damages might well be over $500k – well above Andy’s ability to pay. Will Labour come to the party (intentional pun), I wonder?
  
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  April 3, 2017 10:03am
  - Rich Prick
    
    My tea leaves are saying $1.2m and costs, which should be $220k. I hope Labour has filled the cake-stall tin.
    
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    April 3, 2017 10:09am
    - cmm
      
      Don’t worry Jacinda will bring her extensive business skills to bear on the matter.
      
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      April 3, 2017 11:58am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Can the courts force the sale of Angry’s jointly owned home? Will he simply declare bankruptcy?
    
    Politics aside, I feel a bit sorry for him. He made a mistake – and we all do that – but his mistake is likely to financially ruinous, and harm his personal relationships etc.
    
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    April 3, 2017 10:23am
    - Swifty
      
      But what does it say about his judgement that having clearly made a mistake he didn’t a. realise it and b. quickly set about making it right – especially when such conduct reflects badly on the Labour party, and in an election year!
      
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      April 3, 2017 10:29am
      - krazykiwi
        
        It says his judgement is appalling. He can’t manage his own mouth, let alone a political party or government.
        
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        April 3, 2017 10:32am
      - Rich Prick
        
        You can take the goon out of the union, but not the union out of the goon. I think Little believes he has nothing to apologise for, he was just “taking it” to the tall poppy, a noble thing according to his sort.
        
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        April 3, 2017 10:59am
      - ztev
        
        If that is so, Why did Key have to pay out the defamation case on the teapot tapes saga?
        
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        April 3, 2017 11:08am
    - stigie
      
      Oh dear, how sad, never mind, i don’t feel sad for the muppet at all, he had his chance to put things right with the Hagaman’s last year and never took it.
      Take the unionist to the cleaners !~
      
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      April 3, 2017 10:29am
    - Keeping Stock
      
      I feel a very small bit of sympathy for him kk, but he is largely the author of his own misfortune. Mr and Mrs Hagaman gave him an ultimatum to apologise, and he refused. He could then have apologised when the Auditor-General found there was no evidence of any corruption or wrong-doing. He chose not to.
      
      Instead of then apologising directly to Mrs and Mrs Hagaman, he issued a half-hearted media statement 10 days before the case was due in court. I believe that has only compounded his initial error of judgement.
      
      I don’t believe that money is the motivation for Mr and Mrs Hagaman. Little impugned their reputation, and I believe they will be satisfied to have that confirmed by a jury, with a significant award towards their costs. The damage Little did to them (and amplified here by ztev) was reputational, and it is clear they value their reputations. But Little still needs to be held to account; let’s see what transpires this morning.
      
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      April 3, 2017 10:31am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Yes, he is largely the author of his own misfortune. Sadly, other people (family etc) get caught in the cross-fire through no fault of their own.
        
        He’s certainly not fit to lead the Labour party, which is a pity because English would otherwise wipe the floor with Little as the election approaches.
        
        Edit: It’s great have Edit back again. My thanks to the KB boffins!
        
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        April 3, 2017 10:57am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        For goodness sake…
        Its not as if he didn’t have ready access to folks who knew the true set-up
        
        He could have asked Jacinda what was the background to the Niue hotel deal.
        (for those who forget.. Jacinda’s father is the High Commissioner to Niue and one of the trustees of the Niue Tourism Property Trust)
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Ardern
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11624727
        
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        April 3, 2017 11:00am
      - ztev
        
        Apology has no meaning in defamation, even though its often mentioned. A judge cant order an apology!
        Its advised to never do ‘apology’, as it may affect your ability to claim honest opinion.
        
        http://www.defamationupdate.co.nz/
        
        Anyway in 2 months time we will all be gripped by Colin Craig v Cameron Slater ( before a jury)
        
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        April 3, 2017 11:07am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        They have already spent more on lawyers than the donation ffs. Would Andy like to comment on that? Causation or correlation?
        
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        April 3, 2017 12:11pm
      - RF
        
        Angry put his hand up admitting he had done wrong when he made his grovelling apology so the court case will be very one sided.
        
        He has no defence. Diddums.
        
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        April 3, 2017 2:29pm
    - Dave Mann
      
      I agree, krazykiwi. When I read about it I couldn’t help but feel a little sorry for him.
      
      (Oh fuck it. … ignore the puns. The poor guy’s name is just so unfortunate to be true 😀 )
      
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      April 3, 2017 10:36am
    - cmm
      
      ” I feel a bit sorry for him”. I don’t.
      
      Little could have avoided this by doing an immediate and unconditional apology.
      
      I make mistakes all the time – and am sometimes a roaring twat – but if I am going to apologise I do so immediately.
      
      The trick to apologising is to do so early, sincerely and deeply.
      
      An insincere apology a week before it goes to trial – after saying many times you have nothing to apologise for – just does not cut it.
      
      Worse for him is that it underlines that he lacks the tact and gumption required for any position of leadership.
      
      I hunch he’s going to have to give up his position to Jacinda.
      
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      April 3, 2017 12:05pm
      - Swifty
        
        Exactly cmm.
        
        I don’t feel sorry for him at all. It’s not as if this is one big ‘accident’. He is the sole author of this shambles. Angry made his choices. He has only himself to blame.
        
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        April 3, 2017 12:16pm
    - howitis
      
      Let the punishment lie as it falls.
      
      He shows all the symptoms of a union thug- which we know he is.
      It was only his union bully buddies that got him in the Top Dawg seat.
      His colleagues – who engage with him away from a media mask- know him much better and did not see him as leadership material. This event underscores why.
      
      A simple apology a year ago would have sufficed. His judgment is terrible.
      Let him learn this lesson now, whatever the price, because a man in his fifties should have known better .
      
      PS. will be even be in parliament in six months given he is Labour List.
      He would have more chance on the Gween list.
      
      I’m happy to see him taken down given the chain of events HE triggered then never rectified at multiple checkpoints. The bigger the downfall, the better.
      No sympathy for the devil.
      
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      April 3, 2017 2:25pm
  - Swifty
    
    ztev reckons Angry will tap us taxpayers to pay for any awards in favour of the Hagamans – even though he has had ample opportunity to get us off the hook by merely apologising to them.
    
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    April 3, 2017 10:26am
    - GazzaW
      
      If Little is arrogant enough to have the taxpayer stump up for his stupidity he’ll pay for it at the polls.
      
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      April 3, 2017 10:55am
      - Swifty
        
        Especially when he’s had an out all along – a simple timely apology.
        
        A goddam reckless risk to taxpayers money if you ask me. I guess it shows how much he values our money.
        
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        April 3, 2017 11:07am
    - ztev
      
      Apology has no meaning in defamation.
      
      There is a long history of national Mps getting the taxpayer to pay for their defamation costs.
      
      Key tried to do the same with the teapot tapes saga, unfortunately for him he wasnt at the cafe as PM, instead his infamous ‘hats’ came back to bite him, and on that day he was wearing his ‘leader of national party hat’. Result the party had to pay.
      
      Little was making his claims as a parliamentarian so the money, if he loses, will come from parliament funds ( for labour, its still money they would have spent anyway)
      
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      April 3, 2017 11:03am
      - Swifty
        
        Explain it all away as much as you like (he did it as well Mummy, waaaah!) – the damage is already done.
        
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        April 3, 2017 11:13am
      - Swifty
        
        The average Kiwi doesn’t give a rats about the finer points of defamation defence tactics – they think that you should just do the right thing.
        
        In this case Angry was clearly in the wrong, he smeared the Hagamans and should just have manned up and apologised long ago.
        
        Hell, had he done so the average Kiwi would have said “good on you” and might have thought better of him as a result. It certainly would have long been forgotten by now.
        
        But no, he just dug his toes in further.
        
        Oh well. As I said before, irrespective of the court result, the damage is already done. Angry showed poor judgement in saying what he said, and poor judgement since. This is why he finds himself in this position today.
        
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        April 3, 2017 11:37am
      - cmm
        
        “Apology has no meaning in defamation.”
        
        Technically that is correct, but practically it is incorrect.
        
        The Hagamans would likely have accepted an immediate, sincere apology.
        
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        April 3, 2017 12:10pm
    - Happychappy
      
      The Powers to be would not let John Key use tax payers money to pay Ambrose, so Little won’t able to use them also as you can’t have different Laws amongst Party Leader I would suggest.
      
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      April 3, 2017 11:17am
      - ztev
        
        he was caught out wearing his national party hat rather than his PMs hat, the party pays !! hahahaha
        
        Electioneering doesnt count when it comes to using parliamentary funds for court cases.
        
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        April 3, 2017 11:37am
      - GazzaW
        
        If taxpayers’ cash is used to pay Little’s dues then it’s doubly bad for him in an election year. The voter will rightfully see it as another polly putting his hand in their wallets.
        
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        April 3, 2017 2:03pm
  - Dave Mann
    
    The nesting is full, so I’ll have to put my comment up here, so here goes…
    
    It seems from some comments that there’s every possibility that the Labour Party or parliamentary funds might be used to somehow get him out of the poo.
    
    If that’s the case, then my sympathy for him dissolves. If he was going to make allegations, surely he should have spoken from under the protection of parliamentary privilege? Isn’t that the point of the law, to protect the right of our parliamentary representatives to speak freely?
    
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    April 3, 2017 12:53pm
- Paulus
  
  Do you really believe that a NZ jury will find against Angry ?
  The judge will direct them to acquit him.
  Anything to try and upset the Government in election year – like Hager.
  
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  April 3, 2017 10:40am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Paulus has a point. It would only take a couple of stanch Labour or maybe Green supporters on jury to make for a hung jury.
    
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    April 3, 2017 11:12am
    - fernglas
      
      Civil juries require a 3/4ths majority, so you would need four holdouts to get a hung jury.
      
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      April 3, 2017 11:39am
  - cmm
    
    Good theory except everyone hates Andy – even the lefties. They prefer Jacinda.
    
    If the case goes against Little then there is even more reason for him to step down and for Jacinda to take over. Hence even the Lefties will want to see him lose.
    
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    April 3, 2017 12:13pm
    - Swifty
      
      You devil.
      
      🙂
      
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      April 3, 2017 12:18pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      ccm, It is not easy now but the rules change within 3 months of an election.
      
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      April 3, 2017 1:06pm
      - cmm
        
        People think these rules are the Laws of Physics.
        
        Nope, they could change in 5 minutes if required.
        
        All you need is caucus (who all hate Andy) to say bugger it – he goes or we all walk and make a new party.
        
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        April 3, 2017 5:02pm
- calendar girl
  
  “….. not now when an apology via the media is too little, too late ……”
  
  An ‘apology’ issued not only ‘via the media’, but in the form of a Labour Party media release. How insulting towards adversaries who have been major donors to the National Party!
  
  The Little Labour machine knows very ‘little’ indeed about the art of making friends and influencing people. With that level of political-management incompetence, they deserve to fall far short of gaining the Treasury Benches in September.
  
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  April 3, 2017 3:35pm
krazykiwi

Looks like the Brexit negotiation-by-media has started:
Britain will get money back from the EU instead of paying to leave under plans being considered by ministers

European leaders have warned the UK that it will face a divorce bill of up to £50million for outstanding commitments and pension liabilities.

However The Telegraph understands that officials are currently drawing up a register of the UK’s assets in the European Union as part of negotiations.
:::
Officials believe that the UK is entitled of £9billion worth of funds currently held by the European Investment Bank.Separate analysis has suggested that the UK is entitled to a further £14billion worth of EU assets including property, cash and other investments.
:::
[Boris Johnson] said: “I think we have illustrious precedent in this matter: I think you can recall the 1984 Fontainebleau summit in which Mrs Thatcher said she wanted her money back and I think that is exactly what we will get.”
:::
Theresa May has said that Britain will meet its “obligations” to the European Union, although the Government strongly disputes claims it owes £50billion.

Iain Duncan Smith, a Tory MP and former Conservative leader, said: “We have put into the place half a trillion pounds over the past 40 years which has never come back. That’s invested in all sorts of stuff there.

“We have intellectual property rights, physical investment in buildings, money in the European investment bank. We own a chunk of the EU, we don’t owe them any money”.
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April 3, 2017 9:54am
- Colville
  
  Yip the Poms should sublet their EU headquaters offices to a bunch of Mussie “immigrants” to get some of their dosh back .
  A 100 rooms at 6 ragheads a room? should be a great little earner.
  Electricty and wifi included in the rent! probably even a subsidised halal cafe 🙂
  
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  April 3, 2017 10:26am
  - Black with a Vengeance
    
    ragheads…
    
    surely sand niggers is the more classy epithet?
    
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    April 3, 2017 10:54am
    - GoVege
      
      Hope your being sarcastic BWAV…
      
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      April 3, 2017 11:10am
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        but of course!
        
        …oh the things you can say when your’e preaching to the choir!
        
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        April 3, 2017 12:22pm
    - skyblue
      
      Camel fuckers is my phrase de jour.
      
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      April 3, 2017 11:44am
  - GoVege
    
    Is the term “ragheads ” conducive to good race relations?
    
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    April 3, 2017 11:05am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      I don’t give a shit, ragheads works for me and understood by the British population I know.
      
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      April 3, 2017 12:16pm
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        ah but you would give a shit if you weren’t hiding behind a keyboard playing up to the British..err ‘white’ population.
        
        try it amongst a group of muslims and see if you care about the result then tough guy!
        
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        April 3, 2017 12:26pm
    - cmm
      
      Raghead is not a racial term is it?
      
      Besides, calling someone a raghead (and I’m not condoning it) is surely far less damaging to inter-cultural relations than, say, driving a truck through a Christmas fare.
      
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      April 3, 2017 12:17pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Ragheads are not a race but members of an evil death cult.
      
      10 1
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      April 3, 2017 12:55pm
      - GoVege
        
        Some Muslims are very nice Chuck.
        The trouble is, their parents chose their religion for them and they can’t get out of it without incurring the death penalty for apostasy.
        
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        April 3, 2017 5:27pm
    - Dave Mann
      
      Umm… is bombing , knifing, shooting and running over innocent people in the name of an imaginary god conducive to good race relations?
      
      (leaving aside for a moment the fact that Islam isn’t a race….)
      
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      April 3, 2017 12:58pm
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        if only the early holy crusaders had guns eh ?
        
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        April 3, 2017 1:03pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        A small nuke would have done the trick 1,000 years ago and the desert would now have safe radiation levels by now so not many guns would have been needed by the Crusaders
        
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        April 3, 2017 2:12pm
      - GoVege
        
        Sorry Dave….”religious relations” just didn’t have the same ring to it.
        Personally I get offended when I see women in headscarves and infuriated when I spot a burqa.
        But it doesn’t help to insult people and assume they are all in favour of murdering innocent bystanders.
        
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        April 3, 2017 5:10pm
- ztev
  
  The amount of money for ‘pensions’ is closer to £6 bill.
  The EU pensions are pay as you go and the employees are expected to fund over time 1/3 of the payout.
  this actuarial view is interesting
  http://bruegel.org/2017/02/the-brexit-bill-uncertainties-in-the-estimate-of-eu-pension-and-sickness-insurance-liabilities/
  
  The ‘present value’ of the current scheme liability is € 63 bill, but its only that high because of low interest rates , which cant be expected to last for ever. Of course the UK should only pay a pro rata of the total
  
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  April 3, 2017 11:48am
Inandout

In London 2 April, this demo is to highlight the Islamic problem in UK terror attacks. The black scarfed Muslim woman in the background taking photos is unchaperoned, which is surely an Islasin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq9-OSWdLVY
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April 3, 2017 10:07am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Muhammad disguised discreetly in one of his wives fetching black pillar-box attire, or, a transvestite raghead, who would have thought!
  
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  April 3, 2017 12:18pm
- Dave Mann
  
  One of the most telling things about the video was the woman passionately asking “Where is the outrage???”
  
  Good on her for asking the question…. but even after that there was no outrage visible. There was one of the (presumably) organisers standing behind her literally squirming at her mentioning the word ‘outrage’. They all looked like a lot of pathetic sad victims.
  
  European culture is fucked.
  
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  April 3, 2017 1:16pm
Inandout

Leighton’s subject this morning is the new RMA. How can a National government promote such Maori saturated legislation by stealth?
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April 3, 2017 10:55am
mikenmild

I see a bunch of local loons were busy over the weekend, showing the vaccine/autism hoax film ‘Vaxxed’.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/91109331/antivaccination-film-vaxxed-spreading-myths-at-nz-screenings-expert-says.
The screening was arranged with some secrecy, lest rational people turned out to provide scientific information for those who might be influenced by the execrable film.
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April 3, 2017 10:58am
- AgentBallSack
  
  Great little vignette by Penn and Teller on vaccination.
  Caution – strong language!
  
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  April 3, 2017 11:27am
- Postitrote
  
  All the secret screenings do is ensure most people don’t get to see it. Superb own goal by the anti-vax nutters.
  
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  April 3, 2017 1:40pm
Lance

Oh let me guess
This vacuous fact free movie didn’t show any scenes of the effects on people these diseases have, and vaccination prevents.

If it was just the airhead parents I would applaud the Darwinism but alas, the kids are innocent.
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April 3, 2017 11:18am
rangitoto

Once Daesh are kicked out of Mosul, the next trouble in that country is Kurdistan claiming the city of Kirkuk. The Kirkuk provincial council flying the Kurdistan flag on civic buildings has annoyed both the Iraqi and Turkish governments.
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April 3, 2017 11:21am
AgentBallSack

Stephies ban ends in 2 more days.
Has anyone truly missed the cretinous dhimmi?
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April 3, 2017 11:23am
- Manolo
  
  Someone of us are keen to buy him a ban extension. 😀
  
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  April 3, 2017 11:31am
  - AgentBallSack
    
    Is there a go fund me?
    
    9 1
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    April 3, 2017 11:50am
    - starboard
      
      Im in..how much u want..he/they have probably been pestering young nubile muslim girls down at St Lukes Starbucks…perverts.
      
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      April 3, 2017 3:26pm
- Garbageman
  
  Most noticeably for myself (not having much time to spend here lately) is a decent flow of discussion without the pathetic snide one liners it makes catching up more enjoyable and promotes a more reasoned debate as well, it just proves what a dedicated troll can do to a blog
  
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  April 3, 2017 12:29pm
- Lance
  
  ABS
  Should not have asked a negative
  
  If I uptick your comment it logically implies I miss him… which I don’t.
  But if I down-tick your comment it appears I want sillyboy back, which I don’t.
  
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  April 3, 2017 12:51pm
- mikenmild
  
  It seems you have.
  
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  April 3, 2017 12:54pm
  - AgentBallSack
    
    I miss him like I miss cancer of the nuts mikey.
    
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    April 3, 2017 1:32pm
Manolo

MSM’s panic attack:
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ed-our-dishonest-president/

It was no secret during the campaign that Donald Trump was a narcissist and a demagogue who used fear and dishonesty to appeal to the worst in American voters. The Times called him unprepared and unsuited for the job he was seeking, and said his election would be a “catastrophe.
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April 3, 2017 11:29am
- Scott
  
  It’s become hysterical. Donald Trump will be president for 8 years and in the eyes of the LA Times and the Washington post and the New York Times and CNN he will never do anything right. The editorial talks about his foolish idea of building a wall. He ran on building a wall. That was a major election promise.
  
  The mainstream media is so biased that they will never write a positive story on Donald Trump for the next 8 years. So for 8 years he will never do anything right.
  
  When you look on the other hand about the coverage they gave to Obama, for 8 years he never did anything wrong.
  
  The mainstream media are so openly biased that they have lost all credibility. The New Zealand media is just as bad. Make a note – in the next 8 years you will never see a single positive article about Trump in the New Zealand media. Hopeless the lot of them.
  
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  April 3, 2017 11:39am
  - Tirebiter
    
    Yes it has become hysterical but that’s the way it is in the US – and has little to do with the MSM. It has more to do with the views of the ruling class that the MSM in drone-like fashion reports without analysis or fact-checking.
    Mister Trump, but particularly Mister Ryan, Mister Bannon, and Mister Sessions and their like-minded associates want to take the US back to the days of a society devoted to Judeo-Christian roots and white supremacy where minorities, women, and the poor were invisible and servile, and scientific truth can be overturned by mere legislation. They seek an authoritarian society where reality depends on its popularity, not its actuality; where religious dogma trumps scientific truth; where wealth cancels democracy; where service to power justifies any atrocity. All of this resonates with at least part of a society, and some of you here on KB, that has long been both the safest and most fearful in the world.
    Many in the US have legitimate grievances about how the government has abandoned them to the jackals. They voted for Trump to change a two-party winner-take-all system that has abused them for decades and which they rightly blame for much of their uncertainty and pain. They want to break the system that hurt them. Fair enough. They may get what they want. But they’re going to be the first to suffer under a broken system. Elections have consequences, and the abandoned are going to be an even more dangerous force when the current administration inevitably betrays them like the previous ones have. They will seek another crusader on a white horse to fix their unhappy lives. And there aren’t any on the horizon.
    
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    April 4, 2017 1:44am
  - Tirebiter
    
    Also, it would be wise to separate the MSM’s journalistic efforts from it’s editorial views. The Wall Street Journal is one of the best journalistic papers in the US, usually presenting the facts fairly, and correcting itself when it doesn’t. But it’s editorial posture is always pro-big-business, anti-labor, pro-Wall Street and anti-Main Street – or what is derisively termed by the aristos on both coasts as ‘fly-over country’. This is not a criticism of the WSJ or the MSM but an explanation. It is the same with most MSM; their journalistic efforts are more or less fair and self-correcting, but their editorial stances are all over the board. The LA Times represents a diverse community in a fractious time and it’s editorials will inevitably reflect this. The WSJ is the voice of the financial community in NYC and so reflects this group. To pretend that the media is without bias is just plain nuts. So I wouldn’t get too incensed about the editorial policy of the LA Times in particular or the MSM in general. They all have their agendas, based on the views of their owners and or publishers.
    
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    April 4, 2017 2:22am
publicwatchdog

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
MORE CORRUPT ‘CONFLICT$ OF INTEREST’ EXPOSED IN ‘CLEAN, GREEN’ (yeah right) NEW ZEALAND?

How FI$HY is THIS??

“The months-long investigation shows that MPI is paying FishServe (Commercial Fisheries Services Ltd), a company controlled and owned by a powerful fishing industry lobby group, to collect data, manage so called “public registers”, register and unregister vessels, monitor overfishing and quota holdings, and even provide Official Information Act (OIA) responses in place of MPI.”
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April 3, 2017 11:41am
- krazykiwi
  
  Pay. Your. Rates.
  
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  April 3, 2017 11:54am
- Swifty
  
  That’s not on.
  
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  April 3, 2017 11:57am
- stigie
  
  Of course you were talking about the cat stench skyblue..?
  
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  April 3, 2017 12:09pm
  - Kimbo
    
    Of course you were talking about the cat stench ~~skyblue~~ Mrs Slocombe..?
    
    There. Fixed that for ya.
    
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    April 3, 2017 1:03pm
- Black with a Vengeance
  
  wow…this place is in a class of it’s own.
  
  we now got ragheads and unwashed pussies for everyone…
  
  i forgot the reason i didn’t visit so much.
  
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  April 3, 2017 12:30pm
- Dafixeruppa
  
  Inappropriate Skyblue.
  Uncalled for.
  Why not just disagree with publicwatchdog as we all know she has an agenda of paranoia and conspiracy theories and just move on?
  All you do with your foul responses is drop yourself below her level.
  
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  April 3, 2017 12:33pm
- Ross12
  
  Penny
  Fish Serve was set up as part of the Ministry of Fisheries to monitor the QMS system.They carried out the formal part of change of ownership of quota (and leases of quota each season, now referred to as ACE). The industry paid for it’s operation via levies and fees. Now it is obviously run by the industry it self —it is only a registration service and it collects and compiles the catch data which I’m sure is subject to Government audit.
  Nothing “fishy” at all.
  Go find something else to whine about.
  
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  April 3, 2017 12:58pm
- Pateke
  
  That’s just offal, Penny
  
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  April 3, 2017 1:15pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  That’s a low blow skyblue.
  
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  April 3, 2017 1:20pm
- Postitrote
  
  Oooh I see what you did there. Let me try: Pay your RATE$!
  
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  April 3, 2017 1:43pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Hmmm, sub-thread has been moderated away just above. Suspect someone may be sporting a new strike soon.
  
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  April 3, 2017 3:45pm
  - Manolo
    
    Rightly so. The level of personal abuse was intolerable.
    
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    April 3, 2017 3:50pm
    - PhilP
      
      Agreed Manolo.
      No matter how much you may dislike the Öld Bat”, pardon me, Penny, tirades of personal abuse are most unbecoming for most Kiwiblogers.
      
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      April 3, 2017 4:01pm
krazykiwi

It’s 35 years ago this week that the UK sent a force to liberate the Falkland Islands from Argentinian forces. The war aside, Split Enz Six Months in a Leaky Boat was promptly banned by the BBC which helped generate record sales, if not the chart position.

Now another Spanish-speaking country is rattling sabers at a UK territory – Spain appears to be eyeing Gibraltar.

Sir Michael Fallon, the Defence Secretary, suggetsed that Britain is ready to go to war to defend the sovereignty of Gibraltar. He vowed to go “all the way” to protect the territory.
:::
Lord Howard drew comparisons with the invasion of the Falkland Islands by Argentina, highlighting the 35th anniversary of the start of the war.
He told Sophy Ridge on Sky News: “There is no question whatever that our Government will stand by Gibraltar.
“Thirty five years ago this week another woman prime minister sent a task force half way across the world to defend the freedom of another small group of British people against another Spanish-speaking country. I am absolutely certain our current Prime Minister will show the same resolve.”

I dare say the EU’s dirty hands and in there somewhere, helping to open up multiple fronts on which the UK must wage diplomatic battles.
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April 3, 2017 11:52am
Keeping Stock

Almost two hours since Hagaman v Little was due to be called as the first case on the list in the No 3 Court of the Wellington High Court.

You wouldn’t think a simple callover, as ztev has predicted for a week or more, would take two hours, but there’s been nothing on Twitter, or in any of the media, and no mention of the jury being sent away.

Ztev has run out a whole lot of allegations against Earl Hagaman which the defence may want to use in Court. So just how close to Little’s “inner circle” is ztev? And if ztev was advising Little that the case wouldn’t proceed, it could well be that he/she is as preone to errors of judgment as Mr Little.
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April 3, 2017 11:56am
- Swifty
  
  There have been a number of times recently KS when ztev has given me pause for thought – he does present points well, at times.
  
  However, the recent tabling of details personal to the Hagamans, whether those details are right or wrong, does him no credit.
  
  As an aside, someone has clearly done much digging into their affairs of late. I wonder why?
  
  Labour truly are the nasty party.
  
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  April 3, 2017 12:04pm
  - Swifty
    
    *he or she.
    
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    April 3, 2017 12:22pm
    - Ross12
      
      Swifty
      I think there is more than one in the ztec team. As you say some of the comments are well presented and factually backed up but there are others that are just spiteful, nasty and poorly written.
      
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      April 3, 2017 1:01pm
    - Biscuit
      
      Shifty, shame on you…
      
      These days there’s none of that polarising ‘he’ or ‘she’ stuff anymore.
      
      You have to factor in all sorts of other possibilities:
      
      Transgender: Applies to a person whose gender is different from their “assigned” sex at birth
      
      Cisgender: Applies to someone whose gender matches their “assigned” sex at birth (ie someone who is not transgender)
      
      Non-binary: Applies to a person who does not identify as “male” or “female”
      
      Genderqueer: Similar to “non-binary” – some people regard “queer” as offensive, others embrace it
      
      Genderfluid: Applies to a person whose gender identity changes over time
      
      And even then I bet I have missed a few…
      
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      April 3, 2017 1:12pm
      - Dave Mann
        
        How about ‘confused’ and craving attention?
        
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        April 3, 2017 1:30pm
      - Garbageman
        
        Mental health is indeed a confusing issue to get your head around Biscuit but yes you will indeed need more than 666 comments to explain the lot as the loopy brigade seem to make them up on a daily basis
        
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        April 3, 2017 2:22pm
- krazykiwi
  
  So just how close to Little’s “inner circle” is ztev?
  
  I’m sure Trevor Mallard knows ztev. Perhaps he could, er, ask?
  
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  April 3, 2017 12:39pm
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Mallard has assured DPF that he is not ztev krazykiwi, and he has posted on Kiwiblog in the past under his own name.
    
    I strongly suspect though that ztev, if not a Labour MP, is a senior staff member from either the Labour leader’s office or the Labour Party research unit. It is well known that at least three Labour Party staffers have been regular anonymous bloggers.
    
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    April 3, 2017 12:46pm
    - Swifty
      
      Could it be Angry himself?
      
      🙂
      
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      April 3, 2017 1:42pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Not this morning I would say. Judges, in my experience, get awfully shirty awfully quickly if a phone rings in ‘their’ court let alone someone playing on a blog during jury selection.
        
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        April 3, 2017 2:20pm
      - sooty
        
        Naw! Too knowledgeable.
        
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        April 3, 2017 5:57pm
    - cmm
      
      ztev can’t be a member of the Labour caucus because they all HATE Andy.
      
      Union blogger-in-chief…. maybe.
      
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      April 3, 2017 5:07pm
chiz

Hoist on his own verbal petard yet again: Judge rules that Trump may have incited violence at campaign rally.
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April 3, 2017 12:17pm
- cmm
  
  Another dud judge. Aspiring to be one of those circuit court judges that get over 80% of their judgements wrong.
  
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  April 3, 2017 5:08pm
  - mikenmild
    
    Is that a legal analysis, or just an epithet you apply automatically to the dozens of judges who rule against Trump?
    
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    April 3, 2017 5:17pm
    - cmm
      
      http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/feb/10/sean-hannity/no-9th-circuit-isnt-most-overturned-court-country-/
      
      6th Circuit – 87 percent;
      
      11th Circuit – 85 percent;
      
      9th Circuit – 79 percent;
      
      3rd Circuit – 78 percent;
      
      2nd Circuit and Federal Circuit – 68 percent;
      
      8th Circuit – 67 percent;
      
      5th Circuit – 66 percent;
      
      7th Circuit – 48 percent;
      
      DC Circuit – 45 percent;
      
      1st Circuit and 4th Circuit – 43 percent;
      
      10th Circuit – 42 percent.
      
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      April 3, 2017 6:35pm
      - mikenmild
        
        So all the circuit courts are deficient, huh?
        
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        April 3, 2017 6:39pm
Manolo

Another left-wing government could be evicted from power:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/ecuadorans-vote-in-tense-elections-and-brace-for-a-narrow-finish/2017/04/02/b5952a88-179d-11e7-8003-f55b4c1cfae2_story.html?utm_term=.2d5dec0080d0

Julian Assange’s asylum protection at Ecuador’s embassy in London looked shaky Sunday evening, as the leading exit polls showed an upset win for right-wing presidential candidate Guillermo Lasso.
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April 3, 2017 12:22pm
Fletch

South Korea just arrested its first female president for doing exactly what Hillary did.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/31/south-koreas-first-female-president-was-just-arrested-for-trading-foundation-donations-political-favors/
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April 3, 2017 12:30pm
krazykiwi

Equadorians going to the polls wouldn’t normally that too interesting for us, but this time around the election could decide the fate of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, who has been holed up at the country’s London embassy since 2012.
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April 3, 2017 1:14pm
Chuck Bird

I am not promoting the Conservative Party but some may find this debate worth going to. I hope it is videoed like the last one was.

MCC 2017 ELECTION DEBATE

Come support the #Conservatives!

The debate will be mediated by Newshub’s political journalist LLOYD BURR. This is an event you do not want to miss!

Come along to see:
Elliot Ikilei (Conservatives)
Fletcher Tabuteau (NZ First)
Jacinda Ardern (Labour)
Jami-Lee Ross (National)
James Shaw (Greens)
Marama Fox (Maori)
Peter Dunne (United Future)
David Seymour (ACT)
Geoff Simmons (Opportunities)

What? 2017 MCC Election Debate
Where? Fisher & Paykel Appliances Auditorium, OGGB, The University of Auckland
When? 6.30pm 3rd April 2017
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April 3, 2017 1:42pm
- mikenmild
  
  National sending their big gun along, I see.
  
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  April 3, 2017 1:57pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Big Gun vs Big Gums then 😀
    
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    April 3, 2017 2:25pm
Keeping Stock

Hey ztev – I see Mr Little got that call-over; not!

The couple suing Labour leader Andrew Little for defamation want $670,000 in damages.

Earl and Lani Hagaman claim Mr Little made an inference of corruption when he questioned the timing of a $100,000 donation Mr Hagaman made to the National Party, and his Scenic Hotel winning a contract to run a Niue resort.

Mr Little called on the Auditor General to investigate the donation.

The couple’s lawyer Richard Fowler told the jury of three women and nine men in the High Court at Wellington that Mr Little released a media statement and several comments in the media which were ‘well prepared’ and ‘not off the cuff’.

He says Mr Little told reporters that “it looks too cosy” and “there’s something about this whole deal that really stinks”.

Mr Fowler says his clients are worried about what impact Mr Little’s comments have had on their reputation, given they’re “very successful players in tourism”.

“We only have one reputation and once that’s lost, it’s very hard to recover,” Mr Fowler says.

The court also heard that Earl Hagaman was now 91, and that because of his poor health he was unable to attend the trial or give evidence.

Mrs Hagaman says her husband has a prelechemic blood disorder and is critically anemic.

He suffers from heart failure and recently broke his left pelvis and “has a few weeks left” to live.

The couple have been married for 25 years and have three children.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/couple-suing-andrew-little-defamation-want-nearly-700k-in-damages

So; Earl Hagaman is 91 years old and terminally ill. But has that stopped ztev, clearly a defender of the Labour Party from attacking him, from behind a pseudonym? Of course not.

And to think, three years ago David Cunliffe was urging everyone to “Vote Positive”, and Labour was slagging off National for allegedly being involved in “dirty politics”.

Hypocrisy; thy name is Labour.
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April 3, 2017 2:16pm
- Colville
  
  The Hagamans were each seeking $550,000 in damages for the written statement, and $120,000 for each of the five subsequent statements made to media.
  
  That sounds like a lot more than $670K 🙂
  
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  April 3, 2017 2:29pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    $1.15m then.
    
    Well done Rich Prick. Your tea leaves called it at $1.2m!
    
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    April 3, 2017 2:38pm
    - Swifty
      
      RP was right on the money!
      
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      April 3, 2017 2:48pm
    - srylands
      
      Isn’t it $2.3 million? The report says that EACH of them are seeking $1.15 million..
      
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      April 3, 2017 4:10pm
      - Rich Prick
        
        I think that headline is wrong, it may be that TVNZ has treated concurrent claims cumulatively. I only say that because under the Defamation Act if plaintiffs are awarded less than what was claimed they are exposed to the defendant’s costs. Plaintiffs (except when suing media where a specific amount can’t be claimed) should always claim lower than they think they will be awarded, just to avoid a costs award.
        
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        April 3, 2017 4:27pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    No good if Earl is dead
    
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    April 3, 2017 7:52pm
- Swifty
  
  In Labour land the end justifies the means KS.
  
  Nasty, just nasty.
  
  🙂
  
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  April 3, 2017 2:29pm
- Garbageman
  
  Try not to invest to much of your time or thoughts on ztev KS I have said it before he sounds like that nasty bitter asshole from the Standard with the chicks name although you expressing shock at just how low these muppets go does surprise me a bit as there seems no level they wont stoop to for their cause, but thank you for the on-going updates anyway quite the timesaver on these busy days
  
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  April 3, 2017 2:40pm
  - Keeping Stock
    
    No; it’s not Lynne Prentice (lprent). I have my suspicions though that it is someone else who has, in the past, blogged at The Standard.
    
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    April 3, 2017 3:09pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  and it is important that it proceeds while he is alive, so no delays. Terrible if Andy delayed and Earl died.
  
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  April 3, 2017 6:40pm
Manolo

She seems to have cancelled her Australia/New Zealand visit citing security reasons:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/89921592/controversial-author-ayaan-hirsi-ali-says-new-zealand-shouldnt-feel-immune-from-the-extremes-of-radical-islam
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April 3, 2017 2:36pm
- GoVege
  
  What a pity we are going to miss a visit from this brilliant and incredibly brave woman.
  Had to laugh when I read the remarks from NZ’ s Muslim Womens Council chairwoman dissing Ayaan Hirsi Ali”s beliefs as “simplistic “.
  Guess what she gives as the excuse for the primitive behaviour of Muslims….colonialism of course!
  Wonder where she got that from….
  
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  April 3, 2017 9:16pm
Happychappy

Poor Andrew Little he certainly has upset the Hagaman’s as they haven’t just gone for his throat they want his balls as well. So if successful the Little Leader from Labour will be looking to raise over one million dollars for his immature behavior and will no doubt be having nightmares thinking of his stupidity.
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April 3, 2017 2:40pm
- Swifty
  
  Over $1 million!
  
  Good grief, if this succeeds I would not like to be in Angry’s shoes trying to explain to the NZ public that he caused that amount of our money to be transferred to the Hagaman’s bank account – and that this was easily preventable.
  
  This is not good for Labour.
  
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  April 3, 2017 2:53pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Love it. I can just imagine the next campaign. All Nats have to do is remind voters that Little couldn’t shut his mouth, and when he did, he couldn’t apologise… And if the party pays up, well then its all over. Popcorn, Beer, you couldn’t make this up…..
    
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    April 3, 2017 3:32pm
waikatogirl

The Hagamans’ are being described as National Party contributors, as if that is all they are known for. How about their successful hotel empire, etc.

The Hagamans’ could just as easily be described as past liabore party contributors.

msm sleeze bags.
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April 3, 2017 3:29pm
- Happychappy
  
  They lie for all the people you wouldn’t have in your home as they are low life’s but I suppose they have to encourage someone to read there rag.
  
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  April 3, 2017 3:41pm
Manolo

By hook or by crook:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/latest-ecuadoreans-choosing-president-close-race-46528194
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April 3, 2017 3:35pm
rightoverlabour

DPF – could we have a post dedicated to the day Angry Andy had his day in court… Please.
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April 3, 2017 3:35pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  I second that motion 😎
  
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  April 3, 2017 3:43pm
  - stigie
    
    Is this defamation case paid for by the taxpayer or do the Labour Party start setting up “give a little” donations to save Angry from selling his mortgaged home..?
    
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    April 3, 2017 4:08pm
  - Dave Mann
    
    I third that motion 🙂
    
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    April 3, 2017 10:19pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I’m sure one is coming. It’s kinda big news, moreso because the MSM have it on the dlow.
  
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  April 3, 2017 4:08pm
freemark

How many questions does this article, and this “poor, unfortunate, victim” family raise.
Why does an apparent Journalist not ask them.
“After waiting almost a year for state housing in Auckland they decided to move to Wellington in February last year when state housing became available.
Morrison has worked in hospitality for the past 20 years and is looking for a retail job while Currie looks after the two kids”
So it would appear no working for the last 2 years or so. 2 years or so waiting for or living in a State House” 20 years in hospo but now “wants to work in retail” There are so many jobs available for these idiots, so many better options than the ones they are taking. We as a country are fucked when we have this shit. Thanks for nothing Labour.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/90957544/young-family-struggling-to-make-ends-meet-gets-boost-with-budgeting-course
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April 3, 2017 4:09pm
Keeping Stock

Bill English has come good:

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/no-inquiry-into-hit-run-allegations-pm/
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April 3, 2017 4:18pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Excellent.
  Meanwhile, tomorrow’s question time will be interesting with Airhead firing the questions at English because Angry is otherwise occupied.
  
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  April 3, 2017 4:31pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Lamb to the slaughter.
  
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  April 3, 2017 4:33pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Good. Hager really did fire off a blank. Perhaps though, there ought to be an inquiry into the book itself.
  
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  April 3, 2017 4:36pm
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Indeed. I suspect that a complaint to the Commerce Commission would be the go. “Hit and Miss” purported to be non-fiction, whereas in truth it turned out to be a fantasy story, so therefore all advertising has been misleading.
    
    13 1
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    April 3, 2017 5:40pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Hager has made wild and dangerous accusations against the very people whose task is to keep New Zealanders and specifically regular New Zealand soldiers safe. He has done this in an attempt to embarrass the Government and the NZDF, and reap financial reward in the process. This cannot just fade away, he needs to be taught a lesson, just as Angry Andy is, that there are consequences to what you publicly say and write. Are there grounds for some kind of legal redress here? (Being ex military, I can’t suggest my preferred option as officers have a code of conduct).
    
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    April 3, 2017 7:29pm
    - mikenmild
      
      The only thing that would offer what you desire is an actual independent inquiry which found no substance to the claims. As the PM and the NZDF don’t want such an inquiry, the matter will not fade away.
      
      1 16
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      April 3, 2017 7:44pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        How would you go about organising an independent, transparent inquiry, MM?
        
        We know that Hager & Stephenson will not identify their sources
        (journalists’ right of confidentiality/ safety of Afghani sources)
        
        How can H& S’s facts be independently checked?
        -especially as no-one independent can get into Taleban territory at the moment.
        
        8 1
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        April 3, 2017 8:01pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Good, the more Hager and Stephenson are exposed to ‘public’ approbrium the better. I for one do not want it to go away, I believe that Hager needs exposure to sunlight.
        ANZAC day is closeish, in the headlines until then would be good, but not if it overshadows the defamation case.
        
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        April 3, 2017 9:14pm
    - AgentBallSack
      
      Hung drawn quartered and keelhauled.
      Then feed the remainders to the agar broth all greens eat.
      
      8 2
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      April 3, 2017 7:59pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      Exactly. Imagine a battlefield somewhere:
      
      GRUNT: Officer, insurgent-looking types at two o’clock, shall I take ’em out?
      OFFICER: Heavens no, Nicky Harger might write a book based on insurgent friendly locals’ “version” of convenience, convince some future soft-cock Labour/Green PM to order an inquiry, and we’ll all end up in prison.
      
      Imagine that?
      
      13 1
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      April 3, 2017 8:05pm
- RF
  
  100% correct decision. Ferret face will not be amused along with the knuckle draggers over on the Standard.
  
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  April 3, 2017 4:44pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Slightly O/T, but have you ever noticed how ‘activists’ tend look more haggard and older than their peers?
    
    I wouldn’t mind betting they die younger than their peers too.
    
    Perhaps their bodies and angry amygdala’s are awash with cortisol or other damaging hormones?
    
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    April 3, 2017 6:11pm
    - starboard
      
      John Minto has a face like a dropped pie..could be from the beatings he took during the 81 tour.
      
      11 2
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      April 3, 2017 7:12pm
      - GoVege
        
        What a hero!
        
        0 5
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        April 3, 2017 8:14pm
    - GoVege
      
      Nah, it’s not that, kk.
      Knocking yourself out for good causes (even misguided ones) is a lot more draining than just being a selfish yuppie.
      Also why the good die young.
      
      1 4
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      April 3, 2017 8:26pm
      - GoVege
        
        ‘Course I can’t see that the black South Africans are any better off under the ANC.
        
        2 0
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        April 3, 2017 9:23pm
- Inandout
  
  We can now expect a multitude of journalist articles condemning English, who just happened to sniff the wind in election year. This issue though pales into insignificance compared to the RMA.
  
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  April 3, 2017 5:21pm
- mikenmild
  
  It must have been a great relief for English to receive advice from the Defence Force that there is no grounds for an inquiry into the Defence Force’s actions.
  
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  April 3, 2017 5:25pm
  - Keeping Stock
    
    It must be a great relief for NZDF to have had two Prime Ministers who support them after the way things went during the Clark era.
    
    The same applies to the Police, who were undermined from the day Helen Clark leaked a story about Commissioner Peter Doone to the media, not to mention those officers who were thrown under a speeding motorcade.
    
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    April 3, 2017 5:43pm
Happychappy

Will Jacinta play the deck of cards and dare to take on Bill English in question time tomorrow if Andrew Little is way layed by his defination trIal.
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April 3, 2017 4:38pm
- chris
  
  JacinDa, not JacinTa. Just like he’s John Key and not John Keys 🙂
  
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  April 3, 2017 7:03pm
  - AgentBallSack
    
    Going by the pressers desire to name couples an execrable combination, I suggest Jandal
    
    jandal
    ˈdʒand(ə)l/
    noun NZ trademark
    a light sandal with a thong between the big and second toe; a flip-flop.
    “Toki turned up at the last minute. Just out of bed; singlet and jeans; jandals”
    
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    April 3, 2017 8:27pm
calendar girl

Defamation is not a field in which a successful applicant is commonly awarded the full amount of damages sought.

I for one would be delighted to see Andrew Little (a lawyer himself who should have known better) ordered to pay damages of $1.2m to the Hagamans.

But it’s not going to happen. Damages awarded in successful New Zealand defamation actions usually fall well short of sums claimed. Can one of our legal experts explain for us, please: if the Hagamans win the case, who decides the quantum of damages – the jury or the presiding Judge?

If it’s the latter, I would expect damages to be no greater than, say, $250k. Nobody can point to, or quantify, actual reputation damage claimed to have been suffered, and NZ Judges – the profession as a whole – tend in the main to be socially egalitarian, at least outwardly. It would not be regarded as ‘proper’ to lighten the wallet of an impoverished Little to benefit ‘fat cats’ like the Hagamans.

Our MSM would then grasp the ability to portray Little’s loss in Court as something of a judicial triumph on his part! Costs? I have no idea. But it’s a strange world in which we taxpayers may end up paying damages and costs if Little loses this case.
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April 3, 2017 4:48pm
- RF
  
  I know it’s not going to happen but after a single malt I need to express myself.
  
  “Lock him up”
  
  Hat tip to Donald Trump.
  
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  April 3, 2017 4:58pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  You seem to have forgotten Williams v Craig last year calendar girl. The jury not only found for the plaintiff Jordan Williams, but awarded him $1.27m in general and punitive damages.
  
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/84790345/Colin-Craig-ruled-to-have-defamed-Jordan-Williams
  
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  April 3, 2017 5:09pm
  - calendar girl
    
    As I’ve said previously, KS, I would be delighted to see that sort of scenario repeated here. In that earlier case, however, it was ‘fat cat’ Craig doing the paying – rather different from the wealthy Hagamans becoming recipients of a significant damages award.
    
    I know that the law is supposed to be blind on the characteristics of litigants (“all equal before the law”, etc), but in practice there is inevitably an element of ‘human nature’ that intervenes.
    
    For my part, I shall await with interest the outcome from the Court. Andrew Little deserves serious consequences for his big mouth, his arrogance, and his refusal to accept the obvious way out of the dilemma that he had created for himself.
    
    Just don’t allow such an incompetent anywhere near this country’s levers of political power!
    
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    April 3, 2017 5:46pm
- cmm
  
  The MSM hate Andy too. They want Jacinda.
  
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  April 3, 2017 5:10pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    You have to see the photo of “Andrew Little” on stuff….
    
    https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/i/9/n/o/j/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620×349.1i9b1s.png/1491203127519.jpg
    
    Faceless, headless, hidden, drenched. Powerful image of a leader going nowhere….
    
    I think the MSM have turned….
    
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    April 3, 2017 7:35pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Great shot. I had no idea he was so good looking.
      
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      April 3, 2017 7:58pm
- Rich Prick
  
  It is a trial by jury, so the jury decides. The amount can be reviewed by a judge though, if my rusty memory serves me.
  
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  April 3, 2017 5:40pm
Jack5

The hero former Muslim and now Islam critic Ayaan Hirsi Ali has cancelled her tour to New Zealand and Australia, citing security concerns as one of the reasons.

And Stuff dilutes the news with a comment from Anjum Rahman, of the Islamic Women’s Council of NZ. Rahman is reported as saying she was not aware of any security concern.

If Ali has security concerns she’s going to let a prominent Muslim like Rahman know?

What have NZ and Australia come to, when a critic of Islam is concerned for her security in these countries?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/91170430/ayaan-hirsi-ali-cancels-tour-of-nz-citing-security-concerns
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April 3, 2017 9:49pm
Jack5

An evening treat: one of the greatest classical trumpeters, Maurice Andre, playing a duet with one of the greatest jazz musicians, Dizzy Gillespie:

https://youtu.be/fvgSLk2UGzs
3 1
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April 3, 2017 10:53pm
Rachael Membery

Is it time for DPF to do a post on how fatherhood changes one?
2 0
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April 3, 2017 11:14pm
Manolo

A minion doing her duty:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/03/susan-rice-requested-to-unmask-names-trump-transition-officials-sources-say.html
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April 4, 2017 6:13am
Manolo

This time is Russia. The religion of peace strikes again:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4375518/Explosion-metro-St-Petersburg.html
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April 4, 2017 6:27am
Viking2

So a couple of good subject s for a rainy day.

Gibraltar’s leader cast EU Council President Donald Tusk as a “cuckolded husband taking it out on the kids” for explicitly proposing that Spain be given a veto over the ties between the British enclave and the European Union after Brexit.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/91171910/britain-will-fight-for-gibraltars-rights–defence-secretary-sir-michael-fallon

Gibraltar doesn’t like the boss of the EU.
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April 4, 2017 6:59am
Viking2

“Kneejerk calls from Police and the Human Right Commission to introduce hate-speech laws after recent attacks on ethnic communities will have the unintended consequence of suppressing free speech. Education, open debate and understanding will change racist and intolerant views – not censorship,” he said.

Moon said freedom of speech was the foundation of a modern, diverse and democratic society and it protected religious freedom and individual expression.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/91132233/prominent-kiwis-pen-open-letter-saying-free-speech-is-under-threat-in-nz-universities

Not to much to argue about there. But no doubt some snowflakes will come along and tell us they are offended.
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April 4, 2017 7:02am

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