General Debate 1 March 2017

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Sponge

Annette King has stood down. The MSM agenda to install Jacinda appears to have worked.

She will now really be exposed as the empty vessel she is should dhe get the deputies role.
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March 1, 2017 9:41am
- Jack5
  
  You have to give the Labour PR team credit for knowing how to play their MSM mates. Labour has kept Adern in the headlines.
  
  At the moment, Labour’s doing poorly in the polls, but well in the headlines. Buzz beats substance.
  
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  March 1, 2017 9:46am
  - kowtow
    
    “Labour has kept Adern in the headlines.”
    
    Labour media has kept Adern in the headlines.
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:04am
  - Jack5
    
    I wonder whether Labour has insured Ardern’s teeth?
    
    A question now: What’s Jacinda’s position on fluoridation?
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:16am
    - Gabby
      
      What’s jacksie’s position on anal bleaching? Sitting on it.
      
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      March 1, 2017 11:19am
  - Paulus
    
    Chris Trotter will delighted – for the first time for a very long time he has got his way.
    Until now he has been persona non grata with Union Labour.
    
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    March 1, 2017 2:23pm
- stephieboy
  
  ” The MSM agenda to install Jacinda appears to have worked.”
  
  Shall we just file this under fake news ?
  
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  March 1, 2017 10:00am
  - GazzaW
    
    No, not fake news. She was unelectable until NZME created her B-lister image and splattered not only her story through their glossies and Canvas but also that of her partner. Far from being fake news, Ardern’s value to NZME is that of creating ‘news’. She’s great clickbait and clicks mean advertising revenue.
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:14am
    - AgentBallSack
      
      I have adblock plus so they don’t get shit out of me. 18 blocked ads on every page though. Might do DPF a favour and start whitelisting Kiwiblog I see I am only blocking 5 here.
      
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      March 1, 2017 1:23pm
RF

King stands down as Deputy and supports choppers.

That would explain her no show on Hoskins slot this morning.

Angry has blinked first.
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March 1, 2017 9:41am
- Happychappy
  
  Very well put if you want to play chicken make sure you have your headlights on. I wonder how this back flip will compere some on the left will be forced into drinking their own spew.
  
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  March 1, 2017 10:34am
hmmokrightitis

Incoming Annette King thread in 3,2,1….
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March 1, 2017 9:41am
Dave Mann

On the subject of ‘fake news’ and the state of the media today, yesterday on GD I had a discussion with somebody called jonar who claimed that George W Bush is a ‘another loopy leftie can’t stand that Hillary lost.’ There was a link which reported Bush’s statements about free press and other matters.

Jonar’s assertion that Bush is a ‘loopy leftie’ was so far off the mark (IMHO) that this got me thinking about how memes and OTT claims which are obviously false can worm their way into our consciousness via the Internet. It seems that there is more danger here than I had previously imagined and while looking for information (on the Internet of course – hahaha) I came across a worrying article which I’ll link to below.

I would classify myself as generally pretty right wing (although I see Trump as a dangerous lunatic), but the article makes disturbing reading and it claims that basically the Trump political phenomenon is a totally manufactured event created largely through the wholesale manipulation of millions (billions?) of ‘likes’ on social media such as FB and the creation of fake ‘sleeper’ accounts run by bots on Twitter. The claim (or research if you will) is that Artificial Intelligence is being employed to either create imaginary events or (as in the case of jonar’s ridiculous assertion yesterday) put a totally 180 degree spin on existing events then manipulate mass opinion using ‘likes’ and ‘dislikes’ and Internet ‘discussion’ largely created by bots.

So, on this theme… is Stephieboy real or is it a bot? Some people here think that Stephieboy is a group of people who comment in shifts – but I’ve often been surprised by (A) his clever merging of generally accepted facts with totally skewed interpretations and (B) his almost perfect grammar and sentence construction.

Is Stephieboy in fact an AI bot created to measure, test and manipulate opinions through observation of his downticks and cross-correlation of these with the downtickers’ opinions on other subjects? Are there bots like this working en masse all over Kiwiblog and other blogs? Are we being Trumped like a lot of zombies?

Have a read of this article. It quotes some very (supposedly) high powered statisticians, psychometric wonks and AI developers and its pretty disturbing stuff.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage#img-1

p.s. Yes that’s right, it’s from the Guardian (originally published in the Observer) but just get over yourselves and read it with an open mind OK? 😀
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March 1, 2017 9:44am
- virtualmark
  
  Dave,
  
  I very much doubt Stephieboy is a bot … if it is then its creators should be working for Google or Apple or Amazon. Can believe it could be a group of people sharing a login.
  
  As for being a right winger who sees Trump as a dangerous lunatic … welcome to the club. My 2c worth is that true conservatives (the type that say Ronald Reagan would have recognised) then you have two choices. You either:
  
  (a) need to stand by your principles and be prepared to call out Trump, or
  (b) sell your soul to Trump for the chance to have a Republican-ish President who might allow you to do some of the things you’ve wanted to do.
  
  I believe that option (b) – and it seems the majority of the Republicans in the House have gone for option (b) – will eventually lead to massive damage to the long-term cause. Eventually the devil will claim that soul that you sold him.
  
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  March 1, 2017 9:53am
  - Dave Mann
    
    @ virtualmark: I very much doubt Stephieboy is a bot … if it is then its creators should be working for Google or Apple or Amazon.
    
    Good point… however my reading of the article suggests that there is a pool of high powered brains just as accomplished as those at Google and Amazon who are dedicated to psychometric manipulation and are probably making just as much money at the behest of massively rich political heavyweights.
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:02am
    - virtualmark
      
      Dave,
      
      With all the resources of Apple & Amazon behind them neither Siri or Alexa can handle multi-stage conversations with context. Stephieboy clearly does. So either it’s not a bot, or it’s the world’s best bot. If it’s the world’s best bot then why is it on Kiwiblog and not being sold to Apple or Amazon for hundreds of millions?
      
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      March 1, 2017 10:18am
  - dime
    
    “As for being a right winger who sees Trump as a dangerous lunatic ”
    
    if trump is a dangerous lunatic, what would you call an actual dictator?
    
    can you give me the reasons you think this way?
    
    im not taking the piss. no need for anyone else to chip in. im just curious how you got to that conclusion.
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:04am
    - Lucia Maria
      
      Dime,
      
      Read this: The Refugee as Cassandra in the Shining City
      
      The first person I heard predict Donald J. Trump would win the race for the U.S. presidency was my father. “Just like [Slobodan] Milošević,” he said, dryly comparing the leading Republican candidate to the Serbian strongman, whose ultra-nationalist program for a “Greater Serbia” resulted in the deaths of nearly 150,000 people in the former Yugoslavia, including dozens of our friends, family, and neighbors. He predicted this confidently from his current home in Vancouver, Canada, recalling how quickly Milošević’s television tirades were followed by our family’s escape from an incinerated Sarajevo.
      
      Nearly a year later the acclaimed Bosnian-American novelist Aleksandar Hemon, writing for Rolling Stone, compared candidate Trump to Vojislav Šešelj, the Serb ultra-nationalist war criminal and Milošević surrogate. “In my irresponsible youth,” Hemon reflected, “I dismissed Šešelj’s murderous bluster as pathological, if entertaining, buffoonery.” Like my father, he saw Americans making the same mistake with Trump and was filled with dread over the fate of the republic. “What I’ve learned,” he continued, “is that people are addicted to the inertia of their common reality, to the desperate belief that everything shall continue as it is simply because it’s been going fine up to this point.”
      
      Things can fall apart, and very quickly once they start to unravel. If you or your family have no experience of this, then you can’t imagine it would ever happen and are blind to the signs that are obvious to others.
      
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      March 1, 2017 10:15am
      - dime
        
        ” no need for anyone else to chip in”
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:19am
      - Lucia Maria
        
        Dime,
        
        Yeah, I saw that and ignored it. You have to email people if you want to keep things private.
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:36am
    - virtualmark
      
      dime,
      
      This will be brief because I can only spare a few minutes and I don’t want to TL;DR … but at it’s simplest:
      
      First, Trump as a person. I think Trump is very much like Mussolini. He’s vain, narcissistic, bombastic. He has few principles or lasting values, beyond whatever is good for Trump. He will have some initial wins that look good (Mussolini got the trains running on time …). But if unchecked he will ultimately lead to ruin.
      
      Second, Trump as an intellect. There are multiple reports from credible right-wing sources that Trump has a very short attention span and is not interested in detail. His business career suggests he’s got a lot of ambition and cunning, but limited follow through (witness multiple bankruptcies). Just this week there was the “Who knew that health insurance could be so complicated” … um, all the professionals in the field??? He doesn’t have the intellectual chops that I want in a President. (note: neither did Bush 43).
      
      Third, Trump has a leader. Again, there are multiple reports that Trump basically doesn’t have a plan. Lots of slogans. No plan. No follow through. Despite what the Trumpkins think Trump has achieved almost nothing in his first 40 days. Nearly all his executive orders were variations on “investigate and report back”. The one that actually tried to achieve something was so poorly drafted his AG said it was un-Constitional and even though he fired her the Courts quickly came out with the same decision. He has hundreds of political appointments as yet not even recommended let alone confirmed. He hasn’t introduced or signed off any major legislation.
      
      Trumpkins hate Obama, but in the same first 40 days he had hundreds more nominees confirmed, he’d passed his Stimulus Bill, the Fair Pay Act and the Children’s Health Insurance programme. Despite the wing-nut narrative Obama got more done.
      
      Trump is a showman. It’s all about the show. It’s all about making outrageous comments (even if they’re patently untrue). To be fair it’s selling to sold out crowds. But the President needs to be more than just a casino showman.
      
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      March 1, 2017 10:32am
      - Fletch
        
        The only reason Trump doesn’t have his nominees confirmed is that Democrats are holding up to process just out of spite. Trump should have had all his people through by now. That is the difference between a liberal and conservative govt.
        
        I’m adopting a wait-and-see attitude toward Trump but so far I am impressed. Obama’s Govt had its foot on the throat of the population and Trump has eased that pressure. Whatever happens, we all dodged a bullet in Hillary. She would have actually been the tyrant you imagine Trump to be.
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:58am
      - virtualmark
        
        Fletch,
        
        No. Take the blinkers off. Trump hasn’t even recommended people for hundreds of political appointments.
        
        You can’t be confirmed if you haven’t even been nominated …
        
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        March 1, 2017 11:15am
      - Griff
        
        I think the comment bush is a lefty was sarcasm aimed at the disconnection between right wing policy and the trump administration policy.
        
        Trump himself is nothing bit a spoiled little rich brat who has had a life full of yes men agreeing with him
        or they get fired .
        
        It is those standing behind the throne like bannon who are the real risk .
        
        That and the refusal to engage with reality with the vast majority of the trumpkins
        
        The election of trump is only an extension of the American conservative movement use of outright propaganda to manipulate its voter base .
        
        And example of the use of lies was the planed parenthood story’s that alleged the selling of baby parts .
        This was based on the use of edited video to distort the story
        
        Or the entire refusal of the USA conservatives to admit the scientific reality of climate change .
        
        Republicans are living in an alternative universe. the Trump machine has tapped into this to sell an obviously unfit and incapable man into the most powerful position on the planet
        
        That would be ok as America will live past this minor excursion into whack land due to the checks and balances built into its system
        
        The major issue is the gibbering uranugt5ang has a briefcase fallowing him around that if used could destroy all human civilization in the matter of an hour.
        
        Some have suggested that this briefcase should be given to a sane person outside of the usa until the regime collapses under the wait of its collective incompetence.
        
        Sarcasm as in this fake news story on the trump rally’s yesterday
        http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/28/millions-of-people-turned-out-for-pro-donald-trump-rallies-6479244/
        
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        March 1, 2017 11:22am
      - Nermal
        
        Other than Trump actually having an intellect and business experience, your descriptions of his failings apply beautifully to both of the Clintons.
        
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        March 1, 2017 11:28am
      - Griff
        
        Yip 40 percent of his business ideas have gone bankrupt in the last two decade trump airlines to trump stakes .
        if he invested his seed money from daddy into a share market tracking fund he would nor have more money than he does
        We dont know for sure because he refuses to release his tax returns
        why is that do you think ?
        Delete the do you think because it is obvious you dont .
        He is either hiding Russian connection or hiding the real size of his wealth or possibly both.
        
        We have the gibbering about the Clinton’s
        More bullshite from the Republicans propaganda arm and the reason why the yanks elected an orange painted ape .
        
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        March 1, 2017 11:43am
    - virtualmark
      
      dime,
      
      Also, after re-reading your comment, to pick up on “what would you call an actual dictator”.
      
      I’d draw a distinction between authoritarians and dictators. Trump is an authoritarian by nature. So were, to name a few, Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin. I’m comfortable referring to Trump alongside them as authoritarians.
      
      But I don’t see Trump as a dictator. To me the difference is in the political system they sit in. Trump is an authoritarian who is working within a carefully crafted and long-standing system of checks and balances. Ultimately he is constrained by that system.
      
      Mussolini, Hitler & Stalin were dictators. To me they were authoritarians who were ultimately able to smash the systems they inherited and rebuild new political systems that placed no checks and balances on them. To me that’s the important distinction … a dictator is an authoritarian who is unconstrained by their political system, and is in fact enabled and empowered by it.
      
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      March 1, 2017 10:36am
      - dime
        
        cheers for your reply!
        
        ya lost me a bit at “trumpkins” but the rest was interesting.
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:43am
    - Pateke
      
      Even though asked not to chip in for my money is no lunatic. I think he has all his marbles, but his narcissism gets in the way of our understanding about how he operates. He is super smart in my view…but still a dangerous potential demagogue.
      
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      March 1, 2017 10:42am
      - virtualmark
        
        Pateke,
        
        Note that the “dangerous lunatic” line came from Dave Mann in the original post in this thread. I wouldn’t necessarily use that term myself, but it’s close enough to how I feel about Trump that I can recognise what Dave was getting at.
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:55am
      - virtualmark
        
        Pateke,
        
        He is super smart in my view
        
        My take … Trump is not dumb. He has a Bachelors degree from UPenn, which is a good school.
        
        But I do think he’s reached the point where his ambition has taken him beyond his ability. Look, we all see that all too frequently. How many times have you seen people at work rise to levels beyond their ability? Happens all the time. I believe that right now it’s happened with the US Presidency.
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:58am
      - Fletch
        
        But I do think he’s reached the point where his ambition has taken him beyond his ability. Look, we all see that all to frequently. How many times have you seen people at work rise up to levels beyond their ability?
        
        That is why you have a cabinet of people, each who are experts in their particular fields, to guide and advise the president. He shouldn’t have to make decisions on every single policy – that isn’t his job. I think he is appointing good people like Gorsuch and Mattis and that is one of the most important things.
        
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        March 1, 2017 11:04am
      - virtualmark
        
        But Fletch,
        
        The two problems there are that:
        
        (1) It seems the administration is run more like a cage fight between competing camps (Bannon, Priebus, Kushner, Cabinet) than an organised team. And it seems that this is the way Trump has always run the Trump Organisation … so it’s his style, and at 70 he’s unlikely to change.
        
        (2) The cabinet spends all its time walking behind the elephant in the parade, cleaning up. For example:
        
        Trump: NATO is obsolete (hey, I have some sympathy for that view)
        Later … Pence: I bring you this assurance: The United States of America strongly supports NATO and will be unwavering in our commitment to this trans-Atlantic alliance.
        
        Trump: I am looking at two-state, and one-state [solutions to the Israeli-Palestine conflict]
        Next day … Haley (UN Ambassador): We absolutely support a two-state solution
        
        Trump: The deportations are a military operation
        Next day … Kelly (Homeland Security): No, no use of military force.
        
        Like I said before … there doesn’t appear to be a coherent plan. It’s all done on the fly. I have dealt with several people over the years whose views seem to change depending on who was the last person they talked to. Trump appears to be one of those people.
        
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        March 1, 2017 11:13am
      - Fletch
        
        (1) It seems the administration is run more like a cage fight between competing camps
        
        You never heard of Lincoln’s Team of Rivals? There is even a book by that name. Lincoln chose the people he thought best for his cabinet, even though he did not agree with some of them.
        
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        March 1, 2017 3:54pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Well Fletch I guess the operative word there is “team”. Lincoln appointed his rivals for President into his cabinet because he thought they were the best people for America’s needs.
        
        I think Tillerson, Mattis & McMaster are all good appointments. But I’ll reserve judgement as to whether Bannon & Kushner are the best people to have advising the President, and I have reservations that so far Priebus hasn’t wowed anyone as Chief of Staff. And there seems little sign of teamwork in there at all.
        
        Look, time will tell. I’m hoping they turn out to be both superstars and a superstar team. But I haven’t seen that yet.
        
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        March 1, 2017 4:15pm
    - Gabby
      
      A dangerous lunatic with no checks and balances.
      
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      March 1, 2017 11:29am
      - Garbageman
        
        Well I wouldn’t call you dangerous except maybe to yourself btw isn’t it bene day shouldn’t you be out scoring some Codys or a cask for your daily drunken ramblings
        
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        March 1, 2017 11:41am
- AgentBallSack
  
  “…and (B) his almost perfect grammar and sentence construction.”
  
  You forgot the /sarc qualifier
  
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  March 1, 2017 9:54am
- Lucia Maria
  
  Thanks for putting this up, Dave.
  
  I almost posted it myself yesterday, but got busy with something else, and it’s not the type of thing you just put a link to and leave. It needs more, which is what you’ve done with your commentary on it.
  
  I’ve been wondering if Manolo is a bot, because he mostly just puts up links to articles to sway opinion in a certain direction and never gets involved in debates. The only thing that’s given me pause on that is that he occasionally makes wise-crack remarks.
  
  And there are definitely trolls operating here with multiple logins. In terms of the place to be to sway public opinion, KiwiBlog would have to be high on the hit list.
  
  Edited to add: if you are a right-winger (such as myself) who hasn’t drunk the Trump coolaid, then you have TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome). Otherwise, you’re just a leftie. Trumpists and their troll buddies, are working overtime to stamp on any Trump opposition everywhere they find it.
  
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  March 1, 2017 9:59am
  - stephieboy
    
    Lucia Maria , first class. You can add other “bots ” like ABS, All on Red , realityczech ,kowtow,Inandout , Jack5 etc In fact all Trumpists and altright nutters .
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:09am
    - Stars And Stripes
      
      Sorry Stephieboy, I would only give you one correct out of six for your bot/troll list.
      
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      March 1, 2017 10:18am
      - stephieboy
        
        S & S,
        
        I do apologise for not including you in my list
        
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        March 1, 2017 11:02am
    - B.L.Zeebub
      
      Settle down Bottyboy.
      
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      March 1, 2017 10:19am
    - pentwig
      
      just as you are a left wing troll, eh steffie
      
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      March 1, 2017 10:22am
      - Gabby
        
        I guess rotating through a bunch of socks is another way of doing it merkin
        
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        March 1, 2017 11:30am
      - Griff
        
        pentwig
        On true blue dissenting opion is regarded as trolling
        This blog and its owner are socially liberal and closer to stephieboye than many of the commentators.
        
        You are the troll .
        
        With nothing to add but you urge to stamp out conflicting ideas because they might make you think .
        Cant have that can we .
        You have shown zero ability to engage in debate instead have 889 comments attacking one commentator.
        You come here only to troll your obsession.
        stephie
        
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        March 1, 2017 12:15pm
      - Lucia Maria
        
        Actually, Griff. He’s made a slight deviation from his normal parameters by making a comment mocking my idea that Manolo is a bot. Which is interesting, too. Who supports whom is always revealing.
        
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        March 1, 2017 12:50pm
  - Dave Mann
    
    Yes, I was going to mention Manolo in my comment too, but I decided not to cloud it with too many claims etc.
    
    Also yes, it’s much easier to just write people off with labels like TDS (and Snowflake etc) than to actually put up a cogent argument. Although I would regard myself as right wing, that doesn’t mean that any view that comes from another direction is automatically lies or wrong.
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:10am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Manolo is not a bot. I met him at a bloggers drinks quite a few years back. Of course he could have died since, and been reincarnitaed as one 🙂
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:37am
    - Manolo
      
      Still alive, so this humble darkie appreciates your words. 😀
      
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      March 1, 2017 11:36am
    - Lucia Maria
      
      Just as a matter of interest, blogger’s drinks where? Wellington or Auckland, or somewhere else? What pub?
      
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      March 1, 2017 11:58am
      - Manolo
        
        It must have been The Backbencher in Wellington, many moons ago.
        
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        March 1, 2017 12:05pm
      - Lucia Maria
        
        So, do you remember krazykiwi, Manolo?
        
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        March 1, 2017 12:08pm
    - Manolo
      
      Yes, I do remember him.
      
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      March 1, 2017 12:12pm
      - Lucia Maria
        
        And, could you add something you remember about him that could be confirmed by anyone else there? I dunno, something like big hair, laughed all the time, drank too much, had strange opinions on puppets.
        
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        March 1, 2017 12:31pm
- jonar
  
  Calm down Dave, I didn’t put a /sarc on my comment because I thought everyone would understand I was taking the piss out of those here who are always claiming those opposed to Trump only do so because they love Hillary.
  
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  March 1, 2017 10:05am
  - Dave Mann
    
    Hahaha OK jonar… sorry I didn’t get it! I’m not up to speed with /sarc obviously 😀
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:16am
  - Lucia Maria
    
    I didn’t get it, either. I thought you were serious.
    
    It would be safer, given the number of comments like the one you made that are done to confuse everyone, to be clearer about where you are coming from in future.
    
    Especially, since it’s difficult to keep track of who is a Trumpist and who isn’t. If the karma system is anything to go by, this place should be mostly Trumpists, so the benefit of the doubt will go in that direction rather than the other.
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:31am
    - AgentBallSack
      
      Are you keeping a list Lucia?
      
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      March 1, 2017 11:46am
      - Griff
        
        Ah ball sack
        Next time you demand I do what you want I have a pre conceived reply
        Smegg off I am not your bitch sunny.
        Trumps administration is highly likely to either collapse under the wight of stupidity or end in a court action and ..impeachment ,
        That is all I need to do to stand by my words mate .
        
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        March 1, 2017 11:57am
      - AgentBallSack
        
        Hi Griff, wishing you a great day too, sir.
        
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        March 1, 2017 12:16pm
      - Lucia Maria
        
        ABS,
        
        I should, but no. People’s opinions change, and I make an effort to allow people a renewal, so to speak. Every day is a new day, and the past should not drag us down.
        
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        March 1, 2017 12:36pm
    - Griff
      
      Lucia Maria
      tribalism is a strong influence in social networks
      I would say that many thinkers here view trump as a loon
      But are to shy to say it or even think it so we get gibbering trumpies up ticking outright stupidity and others going along to not up set their position within the tribe .
      Me ………Only one or two of you are part of my tribe.
      wrong planet …..
      
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      March 1, 2017 12:07pm
      - Lucia Maria
        
        You know Griff, if you could drop the hatred of cats and referring to Holy Communion as “zombie munching”, we could almost get along.
        
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        March 1, 2017 12:39pm
      - Griff
        
        I dont hate cats .
        I do hate the destruction of our unique island ecology that cats and other introduced mammalian species wreak.
        
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        March 1, 2017 12:46pm
      - pentwig
        
        Griff
        What a strange person you are.
        Thank you for enlightening me on DF’s political perversion, thats a bit like you informing me you are a tree hugger.
        You say I contribute nothing to the debate. Fair enough I seldom do. Take your ridiculous stance on climate change. You believe in the conspiracy that it is man made. I believe it is a natural occurrence.
        We could argue it until we both melted in the sun and neither of us would change our view, so what is the point?
        Your first sentence is incomprehensible so I will disregard that.
        To call me out as troll though is really desperate.
        I now make reference to steffies inane comments after being banned for a week for repeatedly calling it Daffy Duck and an idiot (compare that to what it and gabby get away with) with a more polite version. I also enjoy pointing out that it is an ISIS apologist and self confessed sexual deviant.
        Troll? do I try to disrupt the discussion or put a socialist point of view to skewer the discussion?
        But you are entitled to your point of view.
        See how liberal I am!
        
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        March 1, 2017 4:15pm
      - Griff
        
        No pentwig you loon .
        When it comes to science you dont get an opion as valid as any other .
        You dont get to say I dont believe in gravity and walk out of third story windows
        The overwhelming majority of the worlds scientific community supports the theory of AGW .
        In the literature the dissent form this view is minute to non existent.
        IE its a theory not a hypotheses.
        https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Hypothesis-and-Theory
        http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_consequences
        
        If you smegheads could cope with admitting the reality into your world view and still refuse to do anything I would have a small amount of respect ,
        The only one I have found who can do this is Tom Hunter.
        Instead with have really stupid people who hide from reality like a five year old under a blanket.
        We have so called adults spurting whacked out conspiracy and other gibbering stupid fuckkwittery to hide from realities effect on there ideology .
        You want me to ignore that ?
        This is a political blog pointing out the holes in ideology is part of the debate. If the only way you can hold onto your ideology is to deny reality your ideology is not fit for purpose. This calls into question all ideas you expand from that core belief. When I arrived here I was considered far right. I have shifted a long way towards the center because I have attempted to integrate my ideology with my expanded knowledge of the world.
        Many here can not build a viable complete world view instead chose to operate in a perpetual state of cogitative dissonance that they shy away from addressing . To do this they compartmentalize their thinking so they dont have to address the contradictions. Illogical is a good an insult as any for such thinking . This makes them something to laugh at hence keeps me amused and coming back for more .
        
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        March 1, 2017 6:07pm
  - Griff
    
    Jonar putting [sarc] in is sarcasm
    At the people who did not get it .
    I could understand someone who gibbers not getting it but really some of you surprise me at you inability to see the comment for what it was.
    I thought better of you
    
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    March 1, 2017 11:52am
    - Lucia Maria
      
      Griff, isn’t it you that keeps bringing up Poe’s Law?
      
      4 1
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      March 1, 2017 12:41pm
      - Griff
        
        I think the difficulty to discern intention is a reflection of the gibbering stupidity we are being bombarded with daily .
        To illustrate we had dead right kev who insisted that Roger D would be close to the trump school of thought in economics and a natural supporter .
        Roger D was NZ’s neo Liberal thinker .
        As such his politics and his books are 100% agsint trade protectionism .
        Such protectionism as is central to the trumpies economic policy .
        How such gibberingly stupid people get though the day with out eating themselves amazes me .
        
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        March 1, 2017 1:05pm
      - Griff
        
        Why dont you down tickers debate rather than down ticking and hiding behind your anonymity?
        Because you can not refute my comments yet dont like them because it upsets your world view.
        This feeling is also know as cognitive dissonance.
        Your world view has conflicts that you do not have the guts or the mental capacity to reconcile so you stay there in a little bubble of idiocy down ticking yet not engaging your brain.
        
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        March 1, 2017 1:23pm
      - AgentBallSack
        
        “Why dont you down tickers debate rather than down ticking and hiding behind your anonymity?
        Because you can not refute my comments yet dont like them because it upsets your world view.”
        
        Nah, I just do it because I think you’re an arsehole. Oops I did it again.
        
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        March 1, 2017 1:39pm
      - stephieboy
        
        The profound and saggious thoughts of ABS !
        
        LOL
        
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        March 1, 2017 1:42pm
      - Griff
        
        Actually ball sack
        I smegging know I am an arsehole .
        I am not here to be liked by others or feel part of the tribe.
        This Blog is not a echo chamber for sycophants .
        Don’t like it……. smeg off to a safe place snowflake.
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs
        ps put my link back to what it was before .
        
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        March 1, 2017 2:05pm
    - pentwig
      
      If your being amused is that people regard you as a total nutcase as the stupid Delahunty great.
      If down ticks is your enjoyment then go for it Griff.
      Each to their own.
      Why would you get into an orgasmic state commenting on a right wing blog though?
      Would I get into the same state commenting on a socialist blog and getting down ticked or banned?
      “We have so called adults spurting whacked out conspiracy and other gibbering stupid fuckkwittery to hide from realities effect on there ideology .” Your words. Good grief you are very weird.
      Good luck in your conspiracy theories Griff.
      Perhaps frogblog or the stranded are more suited to you.
      
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      March 1, 2017 8:05pm
      - pentwig
        
        As an aside your ” there” should be their.
        Further, what does opion mean?
        
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        March 1, 2017 8:11pm
BeaB

Wow. So Angry Andy really is desperate.
He will do whatever the media push him into.
He has made Jacinda a target.
He has also given them the ammo to start promoting her as leader.
She makes him look boring and grey. As he is.
I wonder what that slippery Grant Robertson is up to?
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March 1, 2017 9:45am
- GazzaW
  
  Robbo will be incandescent but not showing it. All the plotting and manoeuvring over the last few years and he’s missed out again. We haven’t seen the last of the internal turmoil – how stupid can Labour be in election year?
  
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  March 1, 2017 9:55am
- Tarquin North
  
  I’ve seen retired accountants that make him look boring and grey.
  
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  March 1, 2017 9:55am
virtualmark

The seventh in an occasional series of great quotes from US Presidents.

This time it’s George H. W. Bush (Bush 41), writing in 1998 with his National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft:

”[The] premise [was] that the United States henceforth would be obligated to lead the world community to an unprecedented degree […] and that we should attempt to pursue our national interests, wherever possible, within a framework of concert with our friends and the international community.”

I’d argue that of all the US Presidents ever Bush 41 was the one with the best grasp of foreign affairs and the world outside America. Before becoming President he’d been the US Ambassador to the UN, the US “ambassador” to China, the director of the CIA and had been Vice-President for 8 years. He would have had no trouble finding small countries like New Zealand on the map, and you’d never have heard him say “Belgium is a beautiful city”.
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March 1, 2017 9:46am
BeaB

Labour has shown us, yet again, that being hardworking, loyal, effective, experienced – and a woman – is of no value at all to them.
They are making the election into Celebrity Apprentice.
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March 1, 2017 9:48am
EAD

The last few days has been quite refreshing in so far as I’ve turned the news off and have taken the chance to do a bit of in depth reading and watching videos.

I came across this video which I think is a very fair representation (unlike what you’d read in the MSM) of the “Alt Right” movement from a person who agrees with perhaps 50% of our points and opposes the other 50%. You could argue he represents the fulcrum between the likes Myself vs. say a Mikenmild.

This is what balanced reporting looks like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFPUTteK79c#t=34m50s

Even if you watch just the first 3 minutes (I’ve timestamped the video) which is of a couple of so called “far-right extremists” (as described by the MSM), including Richard Spencer, you will understand more in that 3 minutes about what is driving the biggest paradigm shift of our time, than from a year of watching the news or reading the paper.
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March 1, 2017 9:51am
- stephieboy
  
  EAD, this poster captures the flavour of a great many of the reactions to that video ,
  
  Red Ideology
  
  “We have to get rid of the Jews! Everybody should read the KALERGI-PLAN if they want to know why Europe is flooded with niggers and arabs.”
  
  I believe this could be the kind of attitude that is often , “.. driving the biggest paradigm shift of our time, than from a year of watching the news or reading the paper.”
  
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  March 1, 2017 10:25am
  - EAD
    
    Interesting that you bring up the Kalegri Plan. Here is quote from the Wikipedia page of Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi:
    
    The man of the future will be of mixed race. Today’s races and classes will gradually disappear owing to the vanishing of space, time, and prejudice. The Eurasian-Negroid race of the future, similar in its appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the diversity of peoples with a diversity of individuals. […]
    
    Instead of destroying European Jewry, Europe, against its own will, refined and educated this people into a future leader-nation through this artificial selection process. No wonder that this people, that escaped Ghetto-Prison, developed into a spiritual nobility of Europe. Therefore a gracious Providence provided Europe with a new race of nobility by the Grace of Spirit. This happened at the moment when Europe’s feudal aristocracy became dilapidated, and thanks to Jewish emancipation
    
    Kalegri has an award created in his honour called the “Charlamagne Prize” that goes to the (generally) European person(s) who has done the most for Globalism in Europe and diminishing the traditional nation states. Merkel, Blair and Clinton have all been recently winners.
    
    Let readers judge for themselves on evidence Stephie including the words of the people speaking that I linked to on that YouTube clip.
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:52am
    - stephieboy
      
      EAD, so you do beleive “we have to get rid of the Jews ” after all ?
      
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      March 1, 2017 10:58am
  - EAD
    
    Stupidboy – at least you could have the decency to post the top rated comments rather than some obscure comment and make out it is representative.
    
    Top rated Comments such as these:
    
    “The melting pot failed under the Romans, Seleucids, Egyptians, Persians, Turks,. But hey history is for nerds and white supremacists.”
    
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    March 1, 2017 11:00am
    - stephieboy
      
      EAD, I undersand that Romans etc wanted to conquer and Empires not melting pots.
      
      This comment puts it succinctly for your benefit
      
      Moon Man
      
      Better be “nazi” than extinct
      
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      March 1, 2017 11:05am
      - EAD
        
        Totally agree – I think all but the most brainwashed would rather be labelled “Nazi” than become extinct.
        
        The jokes on you if you think that is in some kind of way “offensive”:
        
        http://takimag.com/contributor/JimGoad/205#axzz4Z2spTQlS
        
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        March 1, 2017 5:42pm
Manolo

Our own Kimbo, KB’s Stephen Hawking in the making, will enjoy this book: Parallax by Alan Hirshfield.
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March 1, 2017 9:53am
- pentwig
  
  But, but.. Maria says you are a bot Manolo.
  Surely you haven’t read it?
  
  6 1
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  March 1, 2017 10:30am
  - Manolo
    
    Am I a bot? It is news to me.
    Nevertheless, Russophobe and deeply Catholic Lucia Maria is entitled to her opinion.
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:40am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Send her some shoes, for goodness sake… then she might believe in you.
      
      6 1
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      March 1, 2017 12:46pm
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo, I find is remarkable that you seem to able to marry an erudite understanding of physics with crude superstitions like Birtherism and similar such as Bill and Hillary Clinton conspiracy theories .
  
  Possibly there is a psychological explanation that physics could never explain ?
  
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  March 1, 2017 10:35am
  - Manolo
    
    Physics (and science) can explain everything, my pious Muslim stephieboy, except your misguided trust in the paedophile prophet.
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:41am
    - stephieboy
      
      Physics ( and science ) can explain the Clinton body count , Obama’s Birth certificate and Trump’s patholgical lying ?
      
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      March 1, 2017 10:45am
    - Lance
      
      Good old (local boy) Earnest Rutherford was the man.. one of his quotes
      “All science is either Physics or stamp collecting”
      
      5 1
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      March 1, 2017 12:49pm
      - Manolo
        
        And the great Rutherford, the brightest mind ever born in this country, won his Nobel Prize…in Chemistry!
        
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        March 1, 2017 2:07pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        And if poor old Rutherford had had just a bit more biology knowledge, he might have got his hernia checked out before it killed him.
        
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        March 1, 2017 2:18pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Wow! And I though Biblical, Systematic and Practical Theologians could get bitch with their patch disputes! 😉
        
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        March 1, 2017 2:48pm
      - Lance
        
        Opps
        Sorry Manolo.. accidentally reported you (or was it a subliminal desire?). There should be an un-report button
        Anyway..
        There wasn’t much difference between the Physicists discovering elements that were classified in Chemistry. He should have chosen his words better though
        
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        March 1, 2017 2:51pm
  - Dave Mann
    
    You MUST be a bot, Stephieboy; your grammar and spelling are altogether too good and your sentence construction is almost perfect. I don’t agree with much of what you say, but there’s no way I would fault the way you argue your case.
    
    I also don’t think you’re an actual Muslim. You are far to intelligent and erudite for that. The only conclusion to be reached is that you are a human agent provocateur (to what end?) or you are a Stephiebot and some dark AI algorithm is correlating your downticks and feeding the data back to the dark web.
    
    Stephiebot.
    
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    March 1, 2017 4:41pm
- Kimbo
  
  Thanks Manolo. Will have to make space on my book shelf between my Greek and Hebrew lexicons and my TP McLean collection for all the new titles. But I think it is a big jump from brushing off my School certificate W=FXD notes to becoming the next Stephen Hawking.
  
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  March 1, 2017 2:58pm
  - Manolo
    
    I’ve always suspected modesty to be your forte 🙂 , so am happy to continue listing titles from my own list (I keep a tab on every book I read, including a brief summary.)
    
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    March 1, 2017 3:10pm
  - Manolo
    
    Work equals force by distance. Ah, you are a scientist!
    
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    March 1, 2017 6:40pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Ah, but if you push a boulder up a hill and then carry it down to your start point, you have done no work.
      
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      March 1, 2017 6:44pm
      - SPC
        
        Not if you are training for moving a boulder up a hill in a strong man contest.
        
        1 0
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        March 1, 2017 6:47pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        The mysteries of physics, eh?
        
        1 0
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        March 1, 2017 6:50pm
      - Manolo
        
        I give up, Maggy. You are far too clever for me, a mere shoe designer.
        
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        March 1, 2017 7:09pm
Hugh Pavletich

Housing the dominant concern of Kiwi voters – MacroBusiness Australia

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/03/housing-dominant-concern-kiwi-voters/

By Leith van Onselen

With New Zealand headed to the polls on 23 September 2017, Roy Morgan Research (RMR) has released special polling confirming voter angst over housing, with 26% of respondents citing housing as most important issue facing the nation, comprising 15% most concerned about affordability/increasing prices and 11% concerned about homelessness/housing shortages.

These issues are well ahead of other issues including Government/ Politicians/ Leadership/ Government Spending 6% and Refugees 4%. … read more via hyperlink above …

New Zealand’s ‘housing crisis’ dominates domestic issues as New Zealand heads towards September election … Roy Morgan | interest.co.nz

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/86242/new-zealand%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98housing-crisis%E2%80%99-dominates-domestic-issues-new-zealand-heads-towards

Christchurch’s terrace houses struggling to sell as housing market levels … Liz McDonald … The Press

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/89399093/christchurchs-terraced-homes-struggling-to-sell-as-housing-market-levels
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March 1, 2017 9:55am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Sigh . . .
  
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  March 1, 2017 10:20am
Manolo

We are about to witness the greatest display of talent by a NZ politician: the great Jacinda Ardern has arrived. Peerless.
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March 1, 2017 9:56am
- VicParking
  
  Stand beside her and look into her ear. You can see straight thru.
  
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  March 1, 2017 10:07am
- Dave Mann
  
  Manolo mi hermano…. es verdad, tu no es un bot hecho por inteligencia artificial? Dime sí o no?
  
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  March 1, 2017 4:54pm
  - Manolo
    
    Caro Davide, no, non sono un bot, ma un uomo di carne ed ossa. Credemi perche’ ti sto dicendo la verita’assoluta.
    
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    March 1, 2017 6:37pm
Stars And Stripes

Backlash over job ad ruling out de facto couples
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/89857953/backlash-over-job-ad-ruling-out-de-facto-couples.
“A job ad which ruled out de facto couples has sparked a furore but the man who placed it says he was just being honest.
The advertisement, for a sharemilker in Inglewood, described the position as suitable for a “married couple or exceptional single person with family support.”
It also stated that “No co-habiting couples need apply.”
The response to the ad was swift and scathing, with some Twitter users calling it discriminatory and illegal”.

Oh okay so the backlash is actually only some people getting righteous on Twitter then followed by the obligatory newspaper story designed to make the guy look like some old bigot.
His land, his house, his choice I say.
Nothing to do with the authorities and laws to push their social agenda.
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March 1, 2017 9:57am
- dime
  
  he should have put that he was muslim. then it would have been sweet
  
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  March 1, 2017 11:11am
- Garbageman
  
  Its only a backlash if you live in the self congratulatory back slapping void/echo chamber that is Twitter & FB which is where our intrepid journalist’s derive the bulk of their drivel from the rest of us couldn’t give a rats ass
  
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  March 1, 2017 11:19am
- Gabby
  
  He wants to pay one wage for two workers.
  
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  March 1, 2017 11:42am
  - pentwig
    
    Proof? gabby
    
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    March 1, 2017 8:17pm
Tokyo_Joe

“Millionaire Migrants: Countries That Rich People Are Flocking To”

Year-on-year (2015 ~ 2016), in percentage terms, NZ has the highest increase in the number of ‘millionaire migrants’.

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/millionaire-migrants-countries-rich-people-flocking/
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March 1, 2017 10:01am
Huevon

Pleased to see our Donald on the road again promoting Hobson’s Pledge. One step towards making NZ great again.
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March 1, 2017 10:03am
Manolo

Further proof Europe has surrendered to the barbarians:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/le-pen-set-lose-eu-parliament-immunity-over-184550632.html

European lawmakers paved the way Tuesday for French far-right leader Marine Le Pen to lose her parliamentary immunity over her tweeting of images of Islamic State atrocities, officials said.
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March 1, 2017 10:05am
- kowtow
  
  Yep , while the MSM and activists rant and rave about democracy and freedom in the US under Trump , the unelected European elites are copying their fascist forebears ( be they French or Italian ) and are slowly but surely trying to tighten their grip on the agenda , in fear of a true democratic uprising of the European peoples in the face of imposed Muslim immigration.
  
  It is no coincidence that Wilders and LePen are targets of political show trials.
  
  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/26/censorship-concerns-european-parliament-introduces-kill-switch/
  
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  March 1, 2017 10:42am
kowtow

Talking of the lying media , fake news , alternative facts and Trump derangement syndrome,we still have the Swedes spinning madly to publish anything positive in the light of the Trump comments , here’s their latest.

“OPINION: Neil Shipley, originally from the UK, writes about why he is proud to call himself Swedish.”

http://www.thelocal.se/20170228/do-not-buy-into-the-lies-spread-about-sweden

And yet , yesterday the same Local published a story about yet another hand grenade incident (one of 2 in Sweden) yesterday.Strangely off their front page pronto.

The same Local which reported , before the Trump furore , their own PM , referring to 2016 as a Year of Fear , while recommending parliamnt increase hand grenade penalties , now why would that be necessary?

“Sweden’s Prime Minister Stefan Löfven has promised to quadruple the minimum penalty for carrying a hand grenade in the country, during his speech at the first party leaders debate of 2017.”

http://www.thelocal.se/20170111/swedish-pm-penalty-for-carrying-hand-grenades-to-quadruple

And finally in today’s Daily Express there’s a report from a union rep of Swedish ambulance drivers confirming the no go areas “myth” as well as the fact that these areas are dangerous and full of immigrants. I won’t post the link in case of link overload. Look it up if you don’t believe me.
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March 1, 2017 10:16am
VicParking

Teenager next door. CornRolls, ear rings, eyebrow ring, tats. “I dont want a job, the benifit is enough to live on. Me and the girl friend are trying for a baby then we will have enough money to move into a flat with my friends”
Does not drink, take drugs or beat people up, infact quite a nice chap, just wants to live the rest of his life on welfare. He says: “Its quite easy not to get a job, turn up late for the interview, make spelling mistakes on your application and say ‘Duno mate’ lots of times”
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March 1, 2017 10:16am
Michael

There are two Michael’s commenting on Kiwiblog.
This is just to confirm that I am not a bot and I very much doubt the other Michael is a bot either.
I remember a few years ago the was a case on Trade Me [the message board] where a bloke and his partner used the same name. It was obvious there were two different people making comments under the same pseudonym. Trade Me got on to it after a while and banned both of them.
Btw, I believe there is only one Stephieboy and that he is not a bot.
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March 1, 2017 10:17am
- kowtow
  
  No stephie is not a bot , it’s a troll.
  
  18 2
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  March 1, 2017 10:25am
  - Jack5
    
    …~~stephie is not a bot, it’s a troll~~
    
    The Stephieboys are not bots, they are trolls.
    
    11 2
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    March 1, 2017 10:49am
    - Fletch
      
      I have a bot. Sitting on it right now 😉
      
      8 1
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      March 1, 2017 11:28am
  - stephieboy
    
    kowtow, and you ?
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:50am
  - SGA
    
    kowtow
    
    No stephie is not a bot , it’s a troll.
    
    In that case, it’s very happy and well-fed though 😉
    
    8 1
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    March 1, 2017 11:42am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  SB can be a bit of a nuisance at times but not a bot for sure!
  
  12 0
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  March 1, 2017 10:27am
- Jack5
  
  Michael, I think you’re wrong when you say “I believe there is only one Stephieboy”.
  
  There are distinct difference in style, grammar, and vocabulary in Stephie posts, showing there is a small team using the “Stephieboy” pseudonym.
  
  13 1
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  March 1, 2017 10:46am
  - stephieboy
    
    jac5, just continie to update with the Medina of the South Pacfic .
    
    And do vsit your Doctor while you’re about it .
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:54am
    - Jack5
      
      When you are tired of the chanting and the head banging, Stephieboys, remember we can help you get on to the Freedom-from-Islam underground railway to the South Island.
      
      10 2
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      March 1, 2017 11:22am
      - stephieboy
        
        jack5 , as I mentioned go and visit your Doctor .
        
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        March 1, 2017 12:28pm
RF

At last Labour is in safe hands. For some time I have been concerned with their members apparent lack of business experience and basic common sense.

Thank god Jacinda brings this to the table.

Now we have a ruthless business person who can look you straight in the eye and ask…. “how many scoops do you want with your order”.

I am so excited…..
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March 1, 2017 10:20am
- Lance
  
  I once went to an ice cream shop and the item cost $1.50. I gave the girl at the counter $2.00.
  She got out a calculator to work out the change.
  
  Hmmmmm
  
  I wonder
  
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  March 1, 2017 12:54pm
kowtow

Last Monday was what the Krauts call Rosenmontag , or Rose Monday the last Monday before Lent when a lot of cities have parades that often caricature politicians . But talk of Trump Derangement Syndrome and hypocrisy. The Krauts get ultra twitchy about any references to the Hitler era, when it happens overseas it even causes minor diplomatic incidents and yet when it comes to Trump then anything is on . Likewise the feminist left get all knickery in a twisty over rape and yet it seems to be OK to be extremely offensive when Trump is the target.

https://www.thelocal.de/20170227/in-pics-german-carnival-floats-show-trump-no-mercy

Warning the following content includes images that may cause offense to victims of Nazi and sexual violence.( sarc)
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March 1, 2017 10:23am
- Manolo
  
  Those poor Germans do not know yet the Muslim kindness that is about to hit them.
  
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  March 1, 2017 10:28am
  - stephieboy
    
    Manolo, like the ” poor German” kindness meted out in the 1930s ?
    
    http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.503758!/image/405123282.jpg_gen/derivatives/headline_609x343/405123282.jpg
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:47am
  - Jack5
    
    Yep, a million Stephies banging their heads in synchrony could cause a quake.
    
    As unsafe as soldiers marching in step across a swing bridge.
    
    Come to think of it that’s the two thousand and eighth good reason to stop Muslim migration to NZ. We’re too quake prone to be populated by Muslims.
    
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    March 1, 2017 11:16am
    - stephieboy
      
      “We’re too quake prone to be populated by Muslims.”
      
      Why not add Sikhs, Hindus , Ba hai, Orthodox Chrsitian or whatever ?
      
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      March 1, 2017 5:02pm
Colville

The Stranded will be fun reading with King being given the arse card by Angry Andy 🙂
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March 1, 2017 10:26am
Stars And Stripes

A number of schools are failing students and should be closed, ACT leader David Seymour says.
http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/david-seymour-close-failing-schools/ar-AAnEh5O?li=AA59FU&ocid=spartandhp.

Not sure about this personally as a lot of schools are only as good as the calibre of students they receive.
Shit in= shit out in many cases.
David Seymour might be in trouble if we took this concept one step further and closed failing political parties as well.
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March 1, 2017 10:53am
Jack5

A reminder about the vulnerability of the internet. NZ’s Xero has been among nearly 150,000 web based services taken down by a fault in the host in America.

What happens if, in some international standoff, the Russians or Chinese collapse the internet?

Would the Stephies be transferred back to the Stephiestan Camel Corps?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/89916366/amazons-cloud-service-partial-outage-affects-popular-websites
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March 1, 2017 11:13am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You’ll just have to go back to radio transmission.
  
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  March 1, 2017 12:54pm
  - Jack5
    
    Or telex, or semaphor, or Aldis lamps, or even Indian smoke signals.
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:38pm
VicParking

No evidence?. He should just use a quote from the man (or women) called A. Sources he/she seems to know all the “Oil”. The BBC and CNN stand by her or him for all the best evidence.
“US President Donald Trump has said he believes Barack Obama is behind a wave of protests against Republican lawmakers, and national security leaks.
He told Fox News: “I think President Obama’s behind it because his people are certainly behind it”, but added: “I also think it’s just politics.”
Mr Trump offered no evidence for his claims and his predecessor in the White House has not commented.”
PS. When do you need evidence to think?
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March 1, 2017 11:22am
- Gabby
  
  He’s trumplating people who dislike him with people who like Obama.
  
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  March 1, 2017 12:28pm
- stephieboy
  
  It is a popular alt right superstition that the former President is orchestrating chaos and a coup to otherthrow the Trump regime .
  
  http://www.infowars.com/how-obama-is-scheming-to-sabotage-trumps-presidency/
  
  Alex Jones ? Now who would of thought ?
  
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  March 1, 2017 12:32pm
  - Garbageman
    
    Not quite as nutty as some I have seen calling for Obama to have a crack at the French election tis a strange (online) world we live in
    
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    March 1, 2017 1:24pm
  - pentwig
    
    your intelligence is only surpassed by your gullibility steffie!!!
    
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    March 1, 2017 8:31pm
- Lance
  
  Cause yea man… making a highly public personal allegation has never required proof.. pfft
  I think (it) therefore it is.
  
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  March 1, 2017 12:58pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Trolls are so last year

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/12/the-year-the-trolls-won-by-monica-lewinsky
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March 1, 2017 12:37pm
- stephieboy
  
  Maggy Wassilieff, you come off the production line from one of these pro Trump Putin troll factories ?
  
  http://www.businessinsider.com.au/russia-internet-trolls-and-donald-trump-2016-7?r=US&IR=T
  
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  March 1, 2017 12:55pm
  - Andrei
    
    Russian troll factories are as mythical as the trolls that live under bridges and scare billy goats or the tooth fairy .
    
    This urban legend is revealing in that its shows how insular and gullible the modern western population is in that they believe something so patently absurd
    
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    March 1, 2017 1:05pm
  - Stars And Stripes
    
    You may not like Maggy W but to say she is a troll would have to be up there for dumbest comment of the year nomination.
    
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    March 1, 2017 1:08pm
    - Jack5
      
      The Stephies will take first, second,third, fourth, fifth and sixth prizes in that contest. They would take seventh prize, too, but there are only six nominations.
      
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      March 1, 2017 1:26pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    чушь собачья
    
    5 0
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    March 1, 2017 1:25pm
    - Jack5
      
      Нет:
      Верблюд дерьмо
      
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      March 1, 2017 1:34pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Jack 5 , camel crap ?
        
        Like this ?
        
        https://www.rt.com/news/316327-moscow-mosque-largest-europe/
        
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        March 1, 2017 1:41pm
  - pentwig
    
    steffie
    do you come off the standed as iprent and troll as steffieboy?
    
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    March 1, 2017 8:33pm
Stars And Stripes

Prison treatment cruel and inhumane
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/89923926/chief-ombudsman-slams-excessive-use-of-prisoner-restraint
“The Ombudsman has found the use of tie-down beds and restraints in five separate cases constituted “cruel, inhuman or degrading” treatment”.

This is an outrage, whatever happened to a compassionate progressive treatment model such as floor shackles, starvation and daily beatings?.
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March 1, 2017 2:01pm
- stephieboy
  
  Like here ?
  
  http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/c26b07419dbb469c99792ffaf6b90dcb/statue-of-prison-labor-outside-the-old-jail-in-st-augustine-florida-d2b6d6.jpg
  
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  March 1, 2017 2:09pm
Manolo

The Spectator is correct:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/danger-moderate-islam/

Not unlike terrorists who use the trappings of modern technology and civic freedoms to conduct attacks, many Muslims co-opt the freedoms and privileges they enjoy in the West, but convince themselves such luxuries are also ‘Islamic’. This helps shield them from the foundations of the Enlightenment as the true source of their standard of living and allows them to maintain anti-Western stances couched in grievance. Their public utterances, while usually discreet, are windows into their ambivalent relationships with Western societies.

Meanwhile, like Yassmin, they can brush off the human rights abuses against women and minorities across the Muslim world as cultural stains not consistent with their own enlightened understanding of Islam.

A key danger to our societies is when Muslims begin thinking of themselves as Muslims, first and foremost. In doing so, they can argue they are acting according to Islamic teachings, which urge Muslims to give precedence to the ummah, or the global Islamic community.
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March 1, 2017 2:14pm
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo, like I observed earlier on this issue The Spectator appears oblivious to the fact that the May government and it’s predecessors have cordial and trade ties to many Islamic Theocracies and states.
  
  Including naturally selling arms .
  
  Hypocritical much !
  
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  March 1, 2017 2:44pm
  - pentwig
    
    we need proof from a credible source that it is oblivious steffie. note credible!
    
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    March 1, 2017 8:37pm
Manolo

Our devout Muslim would benefit from reading this well thought-out article:
https://spectator.com.au/2017/02/islams-lost-enlightenment/

I am quite used to people smirking into their sleeves when they hear that I’ve just written a book called The Islamic Enlightenment. The really helpful wags say they expect something along the lines of The Wit and Wisdom of Spiro Agnew, which was billed as a collection of all the memorable aphorisms of the former US vice-president, and contained only blank pages.
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March 1, 2017 2:22pm
Maggy Wassilieff

British Labour Party Councillor giving Nazi salute

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-39105598
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March 1, 2017 2:28pm
- stephieboy
  
  “A city councillor who made a Nazi salute during a meeting has been suspended.
  Jonny Morris, a Labour councillor in Plymouth, made the gesture in protest after Conservative members voted to end a debate on the rise of council tax.
  Mr Morris said he “apologised unreservedly” but was “very angry at the closing down of debate”….”
  
  Yes ,a very foolish gesture much like Richard Spencer’s and other Trump supporters would you not agree ?
  
  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-elect-alt-right-white-supremacists-nazi-hitler-salutes-richard-b-spencer-a7431216.html
  
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  March 1, 2017 2:33pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Who is Richard Spencer?
    
    7 2
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    March 1, 2017 3:43pm
    - Griff
      
      This guy.
      The victim….
      
      https://youtu.be/tNXkQGPAM48
      
      For some reason it makes me think of EAD.
      
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      March 1, 2017 3:52pm
      - pentwig
        
        for some reason
        the aggressor makes me think of you griff.
        
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        March 1, 2017 8:42pm
Stars And Stripes

Homeless family charged $2200 a week for South Auckland motel
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/89779460/homeless-family-charged-2200-a-week-for-south-auckland-motel.
“Work and Income is paying $2200 a week for Rastaman and Tuaine Murray and their disabled 12-year-old son Kaya to stay at a motel in Otahuhu until they find suitable long-term accommodation”.

They abandoned their last state house when armed men showed up demanding money from good old Rastaman and since then have soaked up $29000 in accommodation grants.
What a sick joke welfare is in this country.
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March 1, 2017 3:55pm
- Longknives
  
  “Rastaman”???
  
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  March 1, 2017 4:27pm
  - Longknives
    
    I also like how ‘Rastaman’ claims to be “Burned Out”! How in the hell did this loser get Burned Out? It sure as hell wont be from overworking…
    
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    March 1, 2017 4:48pm
    - Nine Toes Neville
      
      He smoked all his P
      
      Deja Voodoo – P
      
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      March 1, 2017 6:36pm
Swifty

I would like to briefly mention the passing on Saturday of Stewart Chan, 92, of Wellington and who’s funeral was held today.

Came out to Wellington post-war as a young man from Canton province and worked for a number of years in fruit and veg, before having sufficient funds to bring out his wife and children to join him(!) Subsequently purchased the Khandallah Fruit Supply and which he ran six days a week with his wife and family for many years. He was heavily involved with the Chinese community, sent his younger kids to the community-funded Chinese School on the weekends to learn the language (no screaming for government handouts) and the subsequent generations of the family have lived exemplary productive lives.

I consider myself lucky to have known him these last 45 years.

The end of an era….
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March 1, 2017 4:09pm
- Stars And Stripes
  
  Worked hard, successful businessman, did not rely on welfare, no criminal record and basically a nice guy.
  These are all the attributes that the media in New Zealand despise so expect no mention of his death in your local paper.
  
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  March 1, 2017 4:20pm
  - Swifty
    
    Yes to all of the above.
    
    7 1
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    March 1, 2017 4:22pm
wreck1080

Apple recorded revenue of 744million in New Zealand, and paid around 10 million in tax.

Granted, revenue is not profit but apple have the largest margins of any phone manufacturer.

Can’t wait until the authorities sort out the tax loopholes that apple are using to transfer profits to ireland.
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March 1, 2017 4:27pm
Tom Barker

The US tourism industry reports that the number of incoming visitors has ‘fallen off a cliff’ in the past two months. This is surely a problem that the mighty alt-right warriors on this blog can address. Come on guys, it’s time to go and pay homage at the shrine.
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March 1, 2017 6:09pm
- nasska
  
  ….”the number of incoming visitors has ‘fallen off a cliff’ in the past two months”….
  
  Probably the illegal immigrants & Muslim “sleeper” terrorists realise that they will now be booted out after their visitor visas expire. With Obama gone they’re back to applying for a Green Card like everyone else.
  
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  March 1, 2017 6:22pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Ctrl-Left Snowflake with TDS
  
  7 2
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  March 1, 2017 6:42pm
  - stephieboy
    
    ZZZZZZzzzzz .. Yet another lifeless and pointless post with an inept attempt at puerile school boy playground humour .
    
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    March 1, 2017 6:51pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Stalker
      Back to your porn Creepyboy
      
      8 3
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      March 1, 2017 7:45pm
      - Griff
        
        http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
        
        Do show us more of your issues all on red .
        
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        March 1, 2017 8:01pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Another Stalker
        Lest we forget what a fuckwit you are getting made a fool of on the Worlds most popular Science weblog
        Bwahhahahahaha
        
        ‘Griff,
        That’s called a straw-man argument. Look it up. The fact that you would stoop to such tactics means that you have no cogent arguments. This is why you are mostly ignored here.’
        
        ‘Anyone ever notice how Griff, just loses perspective of the article and discussion then wanders off in his hunt for assumptions and conspiracies?
        If his writing was a little more obtuse, he could be Loserandownsky researching his next fabrications.’
        
        ‘I gather, that you Griff, with your usual total lack of reading comprehension did not read the comments.’
        
        ‘Absolute confirmation that griffypoo, never reads the articles or most comments.
        Read the article griffy, before making grossly wrong statements.’
        
        Maybe you should go back to picking on Pensioners eh Bullyboy- you must be sooooo proud of your self
        Go on- have a meltdown
        Strike 6!
        
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        March 1, 2017 8:07pm
      - Griff
        
        All on red
        Fuck Knows what repeating that means other than you really do act like a space cadet.
        
        In your tiny mind these are all me as well ….. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Griff
        t 46,900,000 results
        What a whacko …..
        
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        March 1, 2017 8:22pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ?
        Nah, it’s you alright. Maggy was pointing out your lack of comprehension the other day.
        Lol
        
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        March 1, 2017 8:25pm
    - pentwig
      
      gold comedy.
      good grief steffie
      
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      March 1, 2017 8:51pm
reid3

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, and our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of…. It is they who pull the wires that control the public mind.”

– Eduard Bernays, Sigmund Freud’s nephew, who founded the profession of public relations.

There is a cultural purge in progress.

It is directed against not only those who are perceived as “pro-Trump” (which as a card carrying Libertarian I am not. I think that he’s no friend to free speech, privacy or the internet), but targeting even those who are not “anti-Trump enough”.

This cultural purge has a two-pronged approach, from one side, from elements within the corridors of power (or those recently ejected from it) who have successfully floated the concept that free speech is not inviolable and that it would be a good thing for “truth” to be curated by “somebody” who knows better:

“We are going to have to rebuild within this wild-wild-west-of-information flow some sort of curating function that people agree to… There has to be, I think, some sort of way in which we can sort through information that passes some basic truthiness tests and those that we have to discard, because they just don’t have any basis in anything that’s actually happening in the world…That is hard to do, but I think it’s going to be necessary, it’s going to be possible…”

— Barack Obama in speech at Frontiers Conference, Pittsburgh, PA, Oct 13, 2016

And much more @
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-27/cultural-purge-will-not-be-televised
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March 1, 2017 6:22pm
Nine Toes Neville

Does anyone here follow cricket? Guppy is one of my favorite players

/mockers
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March 1, 2017 6:58pm
- SPC
  
  Well it was either that or you lost one in the Sudetenland after Munich.
  
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  March 1, 2017 7:05pm
  - Nine Toes Neville
    
    Guppy only has 2 toes, we are sole brothers
    
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    March 1, 2017 7:08pm
rightoverlabour

For a moment I thought I thought I was on Breitbart when I read this http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/89954296/opinion-donald-trumps-first-speech-to-congress-was-conciliatory-optimistic

Probably the only decent article on Trump that stuff have published to date.
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March 1, 2017 7:35pm
- nasska
  
  The author of the article you cited, one Chris Cillizza, was probably taken out the back of the newsroom & kicked to death by his colleagues. He’s broken ranks by writing a balanced article on Trump. The good & the bad were given equal weight.
  
  Am I alone in that, although I’m not a Trump fanatic, I simply don’t believe that EVERYTHING he utters or stands for is wrong? The anti Trump hyperbole & bias shown by the MSM & the KB trolls doesn’t do a thing to swing my opinions.
  
  Rather it sickens me & drives me away from listening to any points the Left or the Democrats may actually be spot on about.
  
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  March 1, 2017 8:23pm
  - Nine Toes Neville
    
    I just started following Trump straight from the sauce. Cuts out the media spin, no one has mentioned the STEM bills he signed today.
    
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    March 1, 2017 8:30pm
  - reid3
    
    The Western global MSM jumped the shark in front of the whole world in their US election coverage and in their lockstep defence of the European muslim invasion. This has shattered the view they can be trusted in many sheeple. And now the same sheeple see the same things (which have always been going on) in their local media.
    
    They always knew it was, in that they’re not stupid. But previously they refused to believe it. Because that’s not the media they grew up with.
    
    But they see this palpable bias of the first order which can’t be denied, explained nor justified. And they’re turning their backs on it.
    
    The next thing the sheeple need to recognise is that it’s not a left-right thing, this”message-management-not-news” is ubiquitous and it always has been, dating back to the 1700’s. And the same reasons they did it then are the same reasons they’re doing it now. As well as using the same techniques.
    
    That’s a bridge for the sheeple that’s far, far in the distance, but at least they’ve started along the road. It’s possible some of them will recognise the degree to which they’ve been played like a violin before they die, but most won’t.
    
    Still, it’s a start.
    
    BTW, check Fukushima. You said you were interested in it some years ago. Significant new developments for the worse there recently.
    
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    March 1, 2017 8:39pm
    - EAD
      
      @ Reid,
      
      you mention it’s “gone back” to the 17th century but as you and I know, it has gone back much, much longer than that.
      
      I suddenly had this feeling that everything was connected. It’s like I could see the whole thing, one long chain of events that stretched all the way back before Larkhill. I felt like I could see everything that happened, and everything that is going to happen. It was like a perfect pattern, laid out in front of me. And I realised we’re all part of it, and all trapped by it.
      
      – allegory from V for Vendetta
      
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      March 1, 2017 8:50pm
      - reid3
        
        Yes mate.
        
        The last few lines of the Desiderata are apposite in the face of that reality:
        
        You are a child of the universe,
        no less than the trees and the stars;
        you have a right to be here.
        And whether or not it is clear to you,
        no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
        
        Even though it often doesn’t seem like it…
        
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        March 1, 2017 9:54pm
      - Jack5
        
        Reid (8.50 post):
        
        I realise you will know the background of Desiderata, which you are obviously fond of.
        
        However, other Kiwiblog readers may find its history interesting, as I have.
        
        I was surprised to learn San Francisco’s “flower children” played a part in making it popular.
        
        http://www.snopes.com/language/document/desiderata.asp
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:29pm
    - nasska
      
      What I can’t get my head around is how the individuals who make up the MSM didn’t have a brainfart or two along the lines of….”Taihoa! If we keep laying this on with a trowel even some of our thicker sheep are going to start thinking”.
      
      Their outrage was so immediate & over the top that it puts a lie to your pet theory…..that of some puppeteers in control. They simply wouldn’t allow it to happen.
      
      Do you recommend any particular link to update me on Fukushima?
      
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      March 1, 2017 8:59pm
      - reid3
        
        They’re useful idiots mate. Most of them are drop dead brainless fuckheads whose only skill is looking good en camera and burbling nothing. They learned in journo skool the “art” in journalism is managing perception. They left the “print the facts, only facts and all the facts, and let decide” at the door the minute they walked into their first newsroom.
        
        The only ones who aren’t in that category are those who’ve decided that even though what they do is dishonest as fuck, they’d prefer to do it for the cash.
        
        No I don’t have a link for you and the reason is to find out what’s going on you need to not go to MSM but the alternates and make your own mind up about the veracity of what you read there.
        
        Google is your friend so you can easily find them yourself is why. And then it is your data that you are choosing. But if I give you some links it becomes my data I’m giving you. Try googling (and I’m guessing because I don’t use google) “Fukushima Reactor 2 core meltdown” and see what you get. Come back if nothing satisfies.
        
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        March 1, 2017 9:48pm
      - SPC
        
        http://www.globalresearch.ca/helen-caldicott-the-fukushima-nuclear-meltdown-continues-unabated/5574756
        
        http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-02/fukushima-radiation-has-contaminated-entire-pacific-ocean-and-its-going-get-worse
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:42pm
    - stephieboy
      
      reid,”Significant new developments for the worse there recently”
      
      Such as ?
      
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      March 1, 2017 9:52pm
    - stephieboy
      
      reid , Fukishima ? BS !
      
      Oh, Fukushima
      
      A chart purportedly showing radioactive water seeping into the ocean from the Fukushima nuclear plant actually depicts something else.
      
      http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/fukushima.asp/
      
      and ,
      
      28 fallacies about the Fukushima nuclear disaster’s effect on the US West Coast
      
      The Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is back in the news, with recent reports of continued leaks. Coming on the heels of these new reports is a viral blog post entitled 28 Signs That The West Coast Is Being Absolutely Fried With Nuclear Radiation From Fukushima. The article is a paranoid, poorly reasoned attempt to link the tragedy of the Fukushima disaster to just about every environmental issue facing the US west coast in the last few months. At its best, it’s an illogical piece of post-modern absurdism. At its worst, its empirically false and intentionally misleading, rife with out-of-context quotes and cherry-picked data. The author had 28 chances to make a single reasonable point, and every single one rang hollow…”
      
      http://www.southernfriedscience.com/28-fallacies-about-the-fukushima-nuclear-disasters-effect-on-the-us-west-coast/
      
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      March 1, 2017 10:51pm
  - doggone7
    
    Do you believe EVERYTHING every single Labour or leftwing politician utters, does or stands for is wrong?
    
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    March 1, 2017 9:59pm
- Nine Toes Neville
  
  Great article. We had our best people working on it*
  
  *Washington Post
  
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  March 1, 2017 8:24pm
Jack5

A Daily Mail female columnist reports from Sweden and it seems Trump was on the right track about what Muslim migrants have done to that once quiet country. Women are scared to go out in some areas.

Here’s what the columnist reports of her encounter with one group of young African Muslims in the no-go centre of a town:

… I asked a few of them what they were doing, what was the point, what they would ever achieve by standing about. The mum in me was furious.

‘F*ck off, you white woman whore, go suck your mum,’ they replied, and proceeded to demonstrate what they did to their ‘little white girlfriends’.

Perhaps TVNZ should send Ms Wrightweiler across the Atlantic to report. She’ll need a minder or two though.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4269576/KATIE-HOPKINS-reports-Scandi-lib-paradise-Sweden.html#ixzz4a3fJnuo8
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March 1, 2017 8:47pm
- EAD
  
  @ Jack,
  
  we know all this. General Debate, day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day is full of such posts from the likes of yourself and Manolo. It’s as if you think we’re stupid and can’t read the paper!
  
  You act all shocked and bewildered that Muslims are behaving like Muslims have done for centuries!
  
  You seem amazed that the Politicians can’t see what Jack is seeing!
  
  Mate, what’s going on is deliberate and planned. People come on here and allude to it even if it’s just an Alex Jones “NWO” type allusion. Great Men throughout history have warned about what is happening.
  
  You need to ask yourself a few things?
  – Cui bono?
  – Who has the power (financial, media, in universities) to push this insane zeitgeist?
  – Why is it happening to White Christian nations only?
  
  I can’t tell you the answer – you’ve got to go and figure it out for yourself.
  
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  March 1, 2017 9:13pm
  - Jack5
    
    Well I’ll be damned. It’s not those … those …. is it, EAD?
    
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    March 1, 2017 9:21pm
    - reid3
      
      The point is Jack its someone. Isn’t it. This can’t possibly be a series of coincidences in country after Western and only Western country, across left administrations and right administrations in country after Western country, spanning decades, can it.
      
      So therefore, if you recognise that the coincidence theory is logically impossible then anyone with an IQ should ask themselves who, what, why, when. We already know the where and we have a pretty good idea of when, so it’s who, what and why.
      
      Isn’t it.
      
      And if you limit the seeking by immediately ruling out certain groups then what sort of dumbfuckery is that?
      
      So open your mind, and start your quest.
      
      Imagine if cops started their investigation by immediately ruling out a particular group of people on the grounds it could never ever be them so we’ll just look at everyone else and if anything leads us to “them” why, we’ll just ignore it completely, because we have to, we CAN’T go THERE.
      
      Imagine if someone was dumb enough to do that.
      
      How successful d’ya think they would be?
      
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      March 1, 2017 10:00pm
      - EAD
        
        And if you limit the seeking by immediately ruling out certain groups then what sort of dumbfuckery is that?
        
        It produces this kind of thinking -(this image was produced to mock Infowars and all the nonsensical hyperbole of its host – Alex Jones)
        
        https://esotericarchive.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/elephant.jpg?w=308&h=211&crop=1
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:07pm
      - Jack5
        
        Reid and EAD … sorry, but I can’t see that the mass migration from the Middle East is the result of some sort of conspiracy. But if it were, it would be the plan of three or four Wahhabist geniuses (genii???) sitting in some mosque in the Saudi wop wops.
        
        If anyone or any group is to blame, my vote would be for the Western leaders who promoted and backed the “Arab spring” and launched the Iraq invasion.
        
        IMHO, unintended consequences, bad decisions, poor planning and poor intelligence would also rank high in the list of causes of the chaos.
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:21pm
      - reid3
        
        Jack, it’s not just the mass migration of recent years, it’s what’s been going on for decades, across all Western European countries and across administrations both left and right. None of it, put to the people they say they represent.
        
        And it’s not just immigration, it’s education, it’s law, it’s media, it’s social engineering.
        
        If you can’t see the degradation in all these areas then you’re not paying attention.
        
        If you chose to believe it’s coincidence, then explain why all of this and more is happening in Western and only in Western societies and nowhere else.
        
        Not to me of course, I already know the answer, but to yourself.
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:36pm
      - SPC
        
        For mine, the PNAC regime op of Bush that had consequences Iraq/Libya/Syria in terms of a boost of refugees, is an (security threat)exacerbation of what was already the status quo.
        
        Which has multiple sources.
        
        The USA being super power built by migration from (Christian) Europe – offering places to skilled migrants (and students) from around the world (also Canada, Oz and us), taking in refugees and Hispanic illegals.
        
        Post imperial UK (and other imperial powers such as France/Dutch etc) taking in migrant workers from the colonies, Europe choosing supranational identity over the nation state, globalisation of markets for capital and labour – an agenda we were part of in so far as WTO liberalisation went.
        
        The neo-liberal right and liberal left united in seeing a post nation state world as the future. This ushering an end to inter-nation conflict and thus peace in our time …
        
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        March 1, 2017 11:03pm
  - stephieboy
    
    EAD,
    
    “Great Men throughout history have warned about what is happening.”
    
    Like whom ?
    
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    March 1, 2017 9:54pm
    - EAD
      
      “Great Men throughout history have warned about what is happening.”
      
      Like whom ?
      
      Here is a looooonnnnnnng list of them and their exact words:
      
      https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/repute.htm
      
      Amongst then Napoleon, Charles De Gaulle, Voltaire, Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh, HE Wells, Richard Wagner, Mark Twain, Winston Churchill, a string of Popes, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Ottoman Von Bismarck, Cicero, Martin Luther & Jesus Christ amongst others.
      
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      March 2, 2017 8:52am
  - stephieboy
    
    “You act all shocked and bewildered that Muslims are behaving like Muslims have done for centuries!”
    
    Like here in NZ ? Local examples ?
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:05pm
- Griff
  
  http://mashable.com/2017/02/08/wikipedia-daily-mail-reliable-source/#TZCfQGf2iOqq
  
  Ultimately, though, the news outlet (Daily mail ) has been effectively banned as a source, due to its “reputation for poor fact checking, sensationalism, and flat-out fabrication.”
  
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  March 1, 2017 9:17pm
  - Jack5
    
    Wikipedia’s ban looks a bit flaky, Griff.
    
    It began as a campaign led by one of the volunteer editors called Hillbillyholiday. But have a look at this link. Am I right in thinking Hillbillyholiday has “retired” from Wikipedia?
    
    But if you’re gonna ban the Daily Mail, to be balanced, wouldn’t you have to look at banning NZ’s Hooerald and TVNZ?
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Hillbillyholiday
    
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    March 1, 2017 9:27pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Jack 5 , the Daily Mail’s prophetic reporting ,
      
      http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/File:Daily_mail_1938.jpg
      
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      March 1, 2017 9:56pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        You link to The Daily Mail all the time. Oh, that must be the ‘Stephieboy’ who likes it for the pictures.
        What an odd mix you all are.
        Family?
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:41pm
      - stephieboy
        
        All on Wed , like Muslims the Daily Mail had a particular aversion towards German Jewish refugees coming to the UK in the 1930s .
        
        Sigh .
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:47pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Err, I think different people run it today than in the 1930’s.
        Interesting family. At least you are more cogent that than the old Creepyboy.
        He seems to like ‘todays’ version, well the pictures anyway.
        Must be embarrassing for you all.
        Oh well.
        Hey, how’s Kim Dot Com going?
        
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        March 1, 2017 10:58pm
      - Jack5
        
        Re Stephie at 10.47…
        
        The Daily Mail wasn’t alone. There was resistance to a big inflow of Jewish refugees in many, if not most, countries, including the United States. NZ could have taken in far more.
        
        The Muslim Middle East and North Africa have been more hostile to Jews since the late 1940s than most Western countries were to Jewish refugees before the 1940s.
        
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        March 1, 2017 11:01pm
- simpleton1
  
  Thanks Jack5
  It is bad enough about the attacks, rapes, threats, burglaries and violence, particularly on woman.
  
  She doesn’t want her picture to be seen now. Not in case the migrants attack again, but because the feminists will come after her and hound her as a racist for speaking out. The migrant men scare her. But it is Swedish women who have silenced her.
  
  The real issue is Swedish society.
  
  two women grabbed me and told me not to make this about the mosque, not to make this a Muslim issue. This was about the police — nothing to do with migrants. I wondered if they weren’t missing the point. A bomb in a bin…………
  ……A cameraman for the Swedish equivalent of the BBC asked me why this had to be politicised at all; why couldn’t it just be that someone put an explosive device in a bin?
  
  Obviously he had been to a very good journalist school.
  All a form of the “Stockholm syndrome” the hidden fears, inducing brain washing censorship.
  
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  March 1, 2017 9:48pm
  - stephieboy
    
    simpleton1 , source other than the usual elocal , Daily Mail etc
    
    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/oYjwLtKd-Q4/maxresdefault.jpg
    
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    March 1, 2017 10:00pm
Nine Toes Neville

180 great effort from my unevenly toed brother.
Nev
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March 1, 2017 9:42pm
Manolo

Listening to President Trump the pain is all over her wrinkled face:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5zxvh9WYAAT_jl.jpg
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March 2, 2017 6:13am

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