General Debate 16 February 2017

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Manolo

Dissenting opinion on how to get rid of Obamacare:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/obamacare-repeal-replace-republicans-235020
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February 16, 2017 8:01am
- PhilBest
  
  I hope the Republicans get the right focus on this. There is no doubt that healthcare in the US as it existed was seriously flawed, but Obamacare would have to be the worst possible way of attempting to fix it. It was always either wishful thinking or lies, that its effect as designed, would be to lower costs for most people rather than increase them, or even to sustain what they already had in terms of options of doctor and hospital.
  
  The biggie is the expensive defensive medicine being practiced, and the massive litigation faced any time someone doesn’t get it 100% right soon enough. If public systems like NZ were being held to the same standards, the system cost would be double or triple what it is.
  
  Here in NZ, if you have a condition that will not be picked up with a basic, budget blood test early on, pity help you. The system is not going to have damages of millions of dollars awarded against it because it didn’t keep doing more and more until it found what was wrong.
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:19am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  They should start by shrinking it so only expensive treatments are covered. There is no reason to have compulsory insurance covering every doctor visit. That is like splitting a restaurant bill with the whole country – everyone spends more than necessary and a lot of people consume more than they need. Once that is done it may not be too bad.
  
  Litigation windfalls are a big problem too. The federal government is not empowered by the Constitution to control judgments awarded by state courts. But they could maybe amend Obamacare to allow people to buy cheaper plans that don’t include the states with the worst jackpot justice records.
  
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  February 16, 2017 9:33am
mandk

Well said, Mr President:

“Today, I have the honor of welcoming my friend, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, to the White House. With his visit, the United States again reaffirms our unbreakable bond with our cherished ally, Israel.

The partnership between our two countries, built on our shared values, has advanced the cause of human freedom, dignity and peace. These are the building blocks of democracy. The state of Israel is a symbol to the world of resilience in the face of oppression. I can think of no other state that’s gone through what they’ve gone, and of survival in the face of genocide. We will never forget what the Jewish people have endured.”

You can read more here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/15/donald-trump-slams-leaks-contact-russian-intelligence-ahead/
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February 16, 2017 8:03am
- EAD
  
  I can think of no other state that’s gone through what they’ve gone,
  
  The Russian nation,
  
  firstly, the suffered 35 million murdered at the hands of Bolsheivsm.
  
  You must understand, the leading Bolsheviks who took over Russia were not Russians. They hated Russians. They hated Christians. Driven by ethnic hatred they tortured and slaughtered millions of Russians without a shred of human remorse. It cannot be overstated. Bolshevism committed the greatest human slaughter of all time. The fact that most of the world is ignorant and uncaring about this enormous crime is proof that the global media is in the hands of the perpetrators – Alexander Solzhenitsyn
  
  They then suffered 20 million deaths defending their fatherland against the German invaders.
  
  They suffered years of cultural and and social persecution and the population went into sharp freefall. When they were finally liberated from this terrible system, the country was asset stripped by international financiers and Oligarchs while the people then lost everything again in a hyperinflation while the Oligarchs made out like bandits.
  
  Truly, no-one suffered in the 20th century more than the noble Russian people.
  
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  February 16, 2017 11:49am
  - mandk
    
    The suffering of the Russian people was mainly inflicted from within. Russia (or rather the Soviet Union) was attacked by an external aggressor once in C20th.
    
    Israel was attacked three times by the forces of combined enemy states the first 25 years of its modern existence.
    
    But it’s pointless telling you this stuff, really. You are transparently a Jew hater.
    
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    February 16, 2017 12:08pm
    - EAD
      
      The suffering of the Russian people was mainly inflicted from within
      
      No it wasn’t – did you not read Solzhenitsyn’s quote above? The Bolsheviks were not Russians.
      
      Here is Winston Churchill, and a list of his famous quotes, printed in the Guardian. Take note of this one:
      
      This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States)… this worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.”
      
      Yes Israel was attacked – but it was hardly a fair match up though was it. It’d be a bit like the “combined forces” of Tonga, Fiji, Samoa & Papua New Guinea invading New Zealand! The Russians had to face the might of the Whermacht in a life and death struggle.
      
      PS: I don’t “hate” Jews – I’m just interested in the truth and honest and open discussion. You’re the lovely guy who throws abuse and slander around here…
      
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      February 16, 2017 12:22pm
      - mandk
        
        Of course you hate Jews. It’s obvious.
        
        If you didn’t, you wouldn’t argue about whether or not 6 million died in the holocaust, or whether there was a holocaust at all.
        
        Enough already. As if it mattered whether it was 6 million, or 0.6 million, or 0.06 million. It was a vile and unforgivable campaign, in which the Jews died simply because they were Jews.
        
        Shalom.
        
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        February 16, 2017 12:42pm
      - waikatosinger
        
        Of course the Bolsheviks were Russian. Russians in exile initially, but Russian nonetheless.
        
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        February 16, 2017 12:47pm
      - EAD
        
        The reason I examine (or argue as you put it) the Nazis and what went on in that era is because the propaganda is pounded into everyone’s head from the day they are born that Nazism is the ultimate evil and to even question that makes you some kind of raving lunatic.
        
        The label of “Nazi/far-right” etc. is then used to vilify any person from any White country anywhere in the world who objects to their nation being demographically destroyed via mass immigration (No other nation is subjected to this relentless campaign)
        
        This happens only in white countries despite even for those who fought and defeated the German National Socialists.
        
        It’s actually an incredible state of affairs we find ourselves in if you stand back and look at it on objectively!
        
        And what of the fate of the Christian Armenians and Christian Russians who died but the crimes against them are but a footnote in history. Where are the movie’s about them, why is being called a Bolshevik or a Young Turks not the most wounding slur you can call someone?
        
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        February 16, 2017 1:04pm
  - rangitoto
    
    “It cannot be overstated. Bolshevism committed the greatest human slaughter of all time.”
    
    He doesn’t know history. China alone suffered greater losses from the Mongol invasion.
    
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    February 16, 2017 12:50pm
virtualmark

The sixth in an occasional series of great quotes from US Presidents.

Ronnie. In his farewell address on the 11th of January 1989:

The past few days when I’ve been at that window upstairs, I’ve thought a bit of the ‘shining city upon a hill.’ The phrase comes from John Winthrop, who wrote it to describe the America he imagined. […] I’ve spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don’t know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That’s how I saw it, and see it still.”

The shining city on a hill has been an American dream since Pilgrim days but Ronnie is the president it’s most closely associated with.

But Reagan saw it as a city with free trade and that was open to immigrants.
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February 16, 2017 8:03am
- PhilBest
  
  WALLS with open doors, though.
  
  The modern left-liberal useful idiot literally seems to regard every human being on the face of the planet as having a “right” to entry and citizenship in the US, Europe, the Commonwealth, etc.
  
  The whole point of the program they are useful idiots for, is that there would soon cease to be any shining city on a hill at all, because it would have been turned into a replica of the busted-arse societies where every man and his dog came from.
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:10am
  - virtualmark
    
    PhilBest,
    
    I do agree with you on restricting immigration. And every country has that right to control its borders.
    
    But the truth is that Reagan’s view of the “shining city upon a hill” was very different to Trump’s.
    
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    February 16, 2017 8:14am
    - PhilBest
      
      I too support immigration of the right people, done the right way, and even in as large numbers as possible. Growth can be self-funding; the NZ Initiative Report was largely correct about good quality immigrants and their net contribution thus far.
      
      But the populist position of Trump – and there will be others – is tapping in to an unsurprising electoral reaction and pushback against the opposite error that has been getting too entrenched via political correctness. No-one, repeat no-one, in politics, anywhere in the west, has a hope right now, of selling a properly nuanced, intelligent program of immigration. The media wouldn’t give it a fair shake because they are committed to the open-slather virtue-signalling position. We live in a world where soundbites are everything, and intelligent conservative politicians who want to discuss and persuade, and a media and an electorate that will listen and consider, are history.
      
      The future is being fought over between the SJW’s with their childish chants and their ideological idiocy; and the populist nationalists equally simple counter-prescriptions.
      
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      February 16, 2017 8:31am
  - Fletch
    
    Yep. In Reagan’s day, the U.S didn’t need to worry so much about the Trojan Horse of ‘refugees’ covering for terrorists coming into the country. Immigrants from Mexico are another thing: both Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama spoke about having to police the number of illegals entering the country – speeches that liberals seem to have conveniently forgotten about.
    
    https://www.facebook.com/retainyourfreedom/videos/1251530741548624/
    
    https://www.facebook.com/FilmingCops/videos/1305974309437661/
    
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    February 16, 2017 11:31am
- EAD
  
  But Reagan saw it as a city with free trade and that was open to immigrants
  
  Even if that’s what he saw it as, I bet you didn’t picture those immigrants to be 3rd world Jihadis, Sub-saharan Africans and undocumented minimum wage Latinos though did he?
  
  Up until the Hart-Cellar (2 Jewish Senators) sponsored immigration act of 1965, all immigration to the US was limited strictly to those with European backgrounds. A bit like say modern China or Israel which will even go as far as demand blood tests to ensure that only Jews can move to Israel.
  
  But according to the MSM it is America that is full of so called “supremacists”!
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:29am
  - PhilBest
    
    “…only Jews can move to Israel…”
    
    That is misrepresenting the position. All Jews have an automatic right to go to Israel. Israel has a controlled immigration program in addition to that, for everyone else. And they have done some praiseworthy things that the west should learn from; like taking persecuted Christian refugees from the Muslim-majority failed states.
    
    I understand that the trans-national agencies who are trusted by many western governments to select refugees, deliberately do NOT choose the Christians or even those who already know the language or are westernised to some extent, “because the western nations need the diversity” and also are morally obliged to expend the maximum resources possible “helping” – eg with education and language teaching.
    
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    February 16, 2017 8:38am
    - EAD
      
      like taking persecuted Christian refugees from the Muslim-majority failed states.
      
      Prove it.
      
      They won’t even allowed followers of Jesus in who are of their own bloodline (see here:)
      
      http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/the-hateful-whispers-that-make-me-want-to-move-from-london-to-tel-aviv/
      
      All it takes is some form-filling, a £50 fee, passport photos, a birth certificate and evidence that I’m Jewish. Membership of a synagogue will do, but I don’t have that. There was some rabbinical detective work: the names on my birth certificate were cross-matched to the names on my parents’ ketubah, their marriage contract. The rabbi writes a short letter and you have the proof. At the first meeting my immigration officer, Moran, asked if I’m Messianic. I am not. It would be an immovable obstacle if I were, it turns out
      
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      February 16, 2017 8:56am
      - PhilBest
        
        “…Recently a further increase in Christianity came with arrival of many foreign workers and asylum seekers, some of Christian background (for instance from the Philippines and South Sudan)…”
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Israel
        
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        February 16, 2017 10:44am
    - Paulus
      
      Is it not true that over 25% of the population of Israel are Arabs ?
      
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      February 16, 2017 11:06am
      - PhilBest
        
        Yes, and a disproportionately high number of them are Arab Christians who would find it much harder to exist anywhere else in the region.
        
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        February 16, 2017 6:44pm
  - SGA
    
    EAD
    
    Up until the Hart-Cellar (2 Jewish Senators) sponsored immigration act of 1965, all immigration to the US was limited strictly to those with European backgrounds.
    
    all? With the exception a few million African slaves, perhaps? 🙂
    
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    February 16, 2017 9:03am
  - SGA
    
    EAD
    
    Hart-Cellar (2 Jewish Senators) sponsored immigration act of 1965
    
    By what criterion was Philip Hart Jewish?
    
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    February 16, 2017 9:09am
    - EAD
      
      Philip Hart was from an Irish Jewish Family.
      
      The “Celler” part of whom the Act was named after Was Emmanuel Shalom Celler who actually drafted the bill and forced it through.
      
      Here is a section of his Wikipedia – reading through his entry, his entire career was all about opening up Americas border to change its ethnic makeup.
      
      As Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee from 1949 to 1973 (except for a break from when the Republicans controlled the House), Celler was involved in drafting and passing the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Civil Rights Act of 1968 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. In January 1965, Celler proposed in the House of Representatives the Twenty-fifth Amendment, which clarifies an ambiguous provision of the Constitution regarding succession to the presidency. Also in 1965, he proposed and steered to passage the Hart-Celler Act, which eliminated national origins as a consideration for immigration. This was the culminating moment in Celler’s 41-year fight to overcome restriction on immigration to the United States based on national origin. The US Gun Control Act of 1968 directly evolved from Celler’s Bill H.R. 1773
      
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      February 16, 2017 11:25am
      - SGA
        
        EAD
        
        Philip Hart was from an Irish Jewish Family.
        
        I’ll try again – by what criterion was Philip Hart Jewish?
        
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        February 16, 2017 11:40am
  - ztev
    
    I bet you didn’t picture those immigrants to be 3rd world Jihadis, Sub-saharan Africans and undocumented minimum wage Latinos “
    you are very wrong about Reagan
    Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986
    
    “legalized illegal immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously with the penalty of a fine, back taxes due, and admission of guilt; candidates were required to prove that they were not guilty of crimes, that they were in the country before January 1, 1982”
    
    Most of those affected were ‘ undocumented low wage latinos’
    
    So many of his senior staff or cabinet were indicted for various crimes as well. Im sure well see the same towards the end of Trumps time
    
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    February 16, 2017 10:08am
- Scott
  
  Well yes it has to be the right sort of immigrants. People who want to build up the new country not tear it down.
  
  Unrestricted immigration has been a disaster as many Third World poorly educated and in many cases criminal elements have poured into the country through the southern border. Add to this the undoubted threat of Isis and Islamic terrorism and America has voted for a president who is going to protect them from people coming into the country who wish to do them harm.
  
  It’s important to understand that unrestricted immigration is central to leftist progressive thought. They want to fundamentally change America. And the way to fundamentally change America is to bring in millions of Third World immigrants who will almost invariably vote Democrat. Unrestricted immigration gives the Democratic party of the United States the prospect of political power in perpetuity. The Democrats get stronger, the country goes further left towards a progressive vision and presto America is fundamentally transformed.
  
  That’s why the left bitch and whine and protest about Trump enforcing immigration law and building a secure border. They want unrestricted immigration and a transformed America. Trump is the antithesis of that. He believes America was great and can be greater again. Liberal progressives believe that America was never great and should spend the next few decades apologising for their past sins.
  
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  February 16, 2017 9:06am
waikatogirl

David Garrett is to be on the TV3 am breakfast panel.
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February 16, 2017 8:04am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Thanks for the heads up. David has not been very much involved in the debate over Pike River but he gave his view on nanny state which before the 2008 election John Key said we would not have.
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:27am
  - PhilBest
    
    Not the only thing JK said we wouldn’t have. The worst one was that we weren’t going to have a continuation of Helen Clark’s house price bubble.
    
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    February 16, 2017 8:39am
  - Happychappy
    
    The experts say it is safe to enter the mine but not one will guarantee there will be no loss of life. You are the only nanny on here a expert on all subjects but a master on none.
    
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    February 16, 2017 8:42am
    - mandk
      
      “The experts say it is safe to enter the mine but not one will guarantee there will be no loss of life”
      
      Do you see a contradiction there? How much loss of life does there need to be before the boundary between safe and unsafe is crossed?
      
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      February 16, 2017 8:57am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        You are arguing semantics. A car can be pass an inspection but something unforeseen causes a fatal accident. The inspector is not automatically held to account unless he was negligent.
        
        I heard Bill English say that zero risk is not what is required. That is progress.
        
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        February 16, 2017 9:30am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      No one can guarantee no loss of life when one drives to the shop or goes down a flight of stairs.
      
      The Government’s former chief mines inspector Tony Forster says re-entry can be done safely. Do you think you know more than him?
      
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      February 16, 2017 9:00am
      - NK
        
        Other inspectors say it’s too dangerous.
        
        That’s the problem with experts – they rarely agree.
        
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        February 16, 2017 9:18am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        NK, as far as I know the SE experts have not addressed the new plan where re-breathing gear is not required as the drift will be ventilated.
        
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        February 16, 2017 9:24am
      - ztev
        
        “Other inspectors say it’s too dangerous”
        
        And they are public about that or have you paraphrased them?
        I understand parts are considered safer than others.
        
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        February 16, 2017 9:27am
      - Happychappy
        
        Walking down the street is no different to going to bed and not waking up that’s part of life, allowing people to take a risk that other people have died in if you can’t guarantee there will be no loss of life. I am not like you if two fractions can’t agree then do something different like Bill English has said, don’t revert to your pet hate and keep slagging off John Key as you will find in time Winston is no better.
        
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        February 16, 2017 9:27am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Happychappy, this is nothing to do with logic or degree of risk but the fact that you and others hate Winston Peters and almost worship John Key. I do not hate John Key. I just think he is a narcissist and has ticked being PM off his bucket list.
        
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        February 16, 2017 9:55am
- waikatogirl
  
  Yes Chuck, DG was on a very short time but managed to get his message across 3 times.
  
  Well done DG! ?
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:38am
- Happychappy
  
  Good on DG so now I understand all them posts a few days ago pumping up what a great fella and Journalist that Duncan Garner is.
  
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  February 16, 2017 9:07am
  - ztev
    
    Kachingo!
    
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    February 16, 2017 9:28am
  - waikatogirl
    
    Happychappy, i did have a chuckle about Garner and the rest of those who front the am show were all eagerly agreeing with the commonsense DG was speaking. ?
    
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    February 16, 2017 9:38am
    - Happychappy
      
      I like DG for what he says even if I don’t agree and also he been there done that even if it didn’t work out so he has more experience than most.
      
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      February 16, 2017 9:47am
      - ztev
        
        You would have to say ‘he went there for the wrong reasons’
        Little did he know ACT was such a steaming pile of shit.
        
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        February 16, 2017 10:10am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        So you do not want to debate issues but attack people for personal reasons and which political parties or politicians they support.
        
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        February 16, 2017 10:10am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Garner already supported the Pike River families. Maybe he hand picked the panel to support his view.
      
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      February 16, 2017 10:13am
      - Happychappy
        
        The majority of NZ’s don’t.
        
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        February 16, 2017 10:34am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Here is an expert who is willing to enter the drift. If the polling in the next few months shows that it is very likely that Winston will hold the balance of power there will be a safe re-entry.
        
        Dame Fiona Kidman supports Pike River mine re-entry
        
        Forster said he was confident a safe, staged re-entry was possible, and said he would enter it himself.
        
        He said he had three grandchildren and a wife who loved him and would never get others to do what he would not do himself.
        
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11801857
        
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        February 16, 2017 12:43pm
      - Happychappy
        
        Chuck
        If you want to find out the facts get them Experts to sign that no person will die from going into the mine to bring back the evidence they want. Not that they think it is safe, they want to place their lives and others they should be able to agree to that.
        
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        February 16, 2017 1:12pm
Nukuleka

At Christchurch airport the other evenning as I was waiting for a friend to arrive I saw a group of Muslims also in the arrival hall. The women were all dressed head to toe in form- covering garb with only a small amount of face showing. Their menfolk were attired in what I assume to be also their cultural garb- shorts, t shirts and jandals.

It is not ‘hateful’ for me to be concerned to the core that there are people living in our country whose very mode of dress attest to the disparity in the equality of the sexes that is fundamental to their ideology. These women and their daughters will never be permitted to become fully functioning members of our NZ society as long as they are obliged to witness to the inequality that their ideology teaches.

I was angry at the time and I remain angry as I type this. Where are the liberal progressive feminists and why aren’t they speaking up against the inequalities inherent in the Islamic ideology? Or do they sincerely believe the nonsense that the hijab etc ’empowers’ Muslim women and girls?
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February 16, 2017 8:09am
- Lance
  
  I’m afraid you will only end up dispirited if you try to use logic where oppressive garb = freedom, the religion of peace foments violence, saying a certain religion is the polar opposite of the NZ way makes you a racist while adherents of that religion insist modesty is paramount while the male members of said religion will act obscenely towards free women.
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:18am
  - G152
    
    About time they got told to either take on our dress and customs or return to whence they came
    
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    February 16, 2017 8:34am
- oldpark
  
  Also how many of the women had to endure female clitorious mutilation,,to satisfy the directive of some guy called Mohammed.
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:18am
  - Inandout
    
    The mutilation means they are less likely to stray, because sex to those women is like us losing our taste buds; just blandness. The guys of course get to reach the ultimate orgasm unaffected. The Middle Ages is here amongst us folks, as though a time machine dumped them off.
    
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    February 16, 2017 8:55am
    - ztev
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Oh so you will be banning jews who wear clothing from 19th century Russia?
      
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      February 16, 2017 9:29am
      - Inandout
        
        I can’t say I have ever seen a 19th century-clothed Jew. I have seen plenty of 16th century-clothed Muslims.
        
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        February 16, 2017 9:36am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        The Hasidic Jews are also abusive of their members (I’ve lived in Stamford Hill London one of their biggest communities outside Israel). Their women (bizarrely) shave their heads and wear wigs to stay in good standing in the community, and the kids are forced to wear 19th century clothing and attend special schools and services that makes it impossible for them to be part of the wider community. They are so cloistered and restricted that they are effectively denied the option of participating in the wider community and can not do many jobs due to their religious restrictions. Just as bad as Islam or the Amish, Brethren or other fundamentalists with their efforts to isolate their members from the wider society and a degree of ostracism of those that do not conform (though many of their children leave).
        
        Law should mandate that all children receive a secular education without any conspicuous religious identification to set them apart, let them participate in wider society and then choose if they want to adopt more restrictive religious practices as adults.
        
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        February 16, 2017 2:17pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      I am divorced from a woman who may as well have had her clitoris removed; I cannot understand how the camel jockeys get any pleasure, or anyone else for that matter, from sex with a woman is less than keen to be participating.
      
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      February 16, 2017 2:02pm
- holysheet
  
  Stupidboy will be along soon and will give us an explaination of how and why we should tolerate this form of slavery here in our western free thinking country.
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:20am
  - stephieboy
    
    holysheet , like all immigrants and refugees accepted here they must obey our laws .
    
    The overwhelming majority of Muslims who come here do .
    
    Show otherwise ?
    
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    February 16, 2017 10:33am
    - holysheet
      
      Stupidboy answer the question. Why should we accept immigrants and refugees from a stone age culture, who want to follow a peadophile leader?
      It’s no good asking me to show otherwise. You are the one supporting these people in bringing their slaves and misogynist beliefs here.
      You show otherwise.
      
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      February 16, 2017 11:36am
      - stephieboy
        
        holyturd , as I have stated your ideas need to be based on reality and facts .
        
        Not Hysteria and Paranoia !
        
        Go and see your Doctor.
        
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        February 16, 2017 12:48pm
      - Albert_Ross
        
        Because if we start to reject immigrants who meet all the required criteria, or whose status as genuine refugees has been confirmed, purely on the grounds of their religion and presumed beliefs – then we will cease to be a free, modern, liberal, tolerant democracy.
        
        Nobody is saying that all Muslims should be allowed to immigrate – at least if they are, I don’t agree with them.
        
        Like everybody else, they don’t get in unless they pass the immigration criteria or have their status as genuine refugees confirmed. And like everybody else, once they’re here, they have to abide by New Zealand law. And like everybody else, if they want those laws to be changed, they have to go through the democratic processes that are available to them.
        
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        February 16, 2017 1:54pm
- Padriv Ustoev
  
  We’re there 7 women several men and one of the. Was tall and with great beard?
  It was me and my family visiting an uncle in ChCh. You should have come and said high five.
  
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  February 16, 2017 9:16am
- wiseowl
  
  One has to ask why are they here?
  Were they immigrants or refugees.?
  There is no way our country should be accepting these people because of the glaringly obvious culture difference and we know they will not integrate.
  If we are getting them as a result of UN dictates then the government should be telling the UN we will only take christians.
  The government is undermining the great society we had and don’t tell me we have to be all lovey dovey multicultural.It doesn’t work.
  
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  February 16, 2017 9:17am
- cmm
  
  How is this any better oppression of one group than another than, say, apartheid?
  
  In many ways apartheid was way less restrictive than Islam:
  * Blacks could still run businesses etc, just not in the same areas.
  * Blacks could still drive cars.
  * Blacks could still serve in the military (and have exactly the same ranks as whites).
  * Blacks could have bank accounts etc.
  
  Apartheid era whites justified apartheid on religious grounds too.
  
  Yet somehow thumbs down for white South Africans following their ways and thumbs up for Islam.
  
  Special not for Stephie: I am not suggesting apartheid should be condoned or excused, just saying Islam is no better.
  
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  February 16, 2017 10:14am
  - stephieboy
    
    cmm , factual evidence that N Z Muslims practice the apartheid you were ( or still ) most fond of ?
    
    The facts are that e.g agreat many Muslim women drive cars here etc, etc
    
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    February 16, 2017 10:35am
    - cmm
      
      stephiedick: It is slanderous to say that I was (or still am) most fond of apartheid.
      
      You are really a scummy dick.
      
      The only reason the Muslim women here are allowed to do this is that they have not reached the perfection of, say, Saudi Arabia or Somalia.
      
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      February 16, 2017 11:11am
      - Albert_Ross
        
        No, that’s not the only reason.
        
        It is indeed the case that New Zealand law is not the same as it is in Saudi or Somalia. I do not believe that even Stephie has ever argued that it should be.
        
        However, the fact that there are Muslim women who drive cars (and work for a living, and have bank accounts, and wear Western clothes) in New Zealand, says more than that New Zealand laws are different from laws in Saudi.
        
        It also says that many Muslim husbands do not, and have no desire to, force their wives by violent intimidation to abide by strict Islamic requirements that aren’t compatible with New Zealand society.
        
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        February 16, 2017 3:59pm
      - Jack5
        
        Albert Ross at 3.59 says Muslim women in NZ have bank accounts.
        
        But only with Islamic banks or with special Islamic accounts in other banks. Muslims are not allowed to charge or pay interest, just as many Christians were half a millennium ago.
        
        Muslims get around this by using a discount system similar to that in commercial bills. This disguises interest.
        
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        February 16, 2017 9:58pm
    - GoVege
      
      Yeah, and they have no peripheral vision thanks to that headgear!
      
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      February 16, 2017 12:25pm
- stephieboy
  
  No it is not” hateful” to be concerned or even fearful of their garb and beliefs but such fears must be grounded in reality and facts.
  
  Like all immigrants and refugees they must adjust to and obey our laws . Most Muslims who come here do so .
  
  Who says , ” These women and their daughters will never be permitted to become fully functioning members of our NZ society ….” ???
  
  You can be angry as much as you like so long you don’t translate that anger into physical attacks and abuse towards those you saw at the airport and elsewhere .
  
  BTW , how more at the airport felt exactly like you ?
  
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  February 16, 2017 10:18am
  - cmm
    
    “Who says , ” These women and their daughters will never be permitted to become fully functioning members of our NZ society ….” ???”
    
    Well clearly if they are having extra rules and restrictions imposed on them then they are denied some of the freedoms others have. That limits their options to become “fully functional”.
    
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    February 16, 2017 11:14am
  - GoVege
    
    Then how come they are educating their girls in special Islamic schools and dressing them in outfits like nun’s habits?
    Helping them integrate successfully into their new land?
    
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    February 16, 2017 12:32pm
    - stephieboy
      
      GoVege , Muslim families ” only” sending their children to Islamic schools in NZ ?
      
      Evidence ?
      
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      February 16, 2017 12:51pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Oh look, islam-only schools in Auckland:
        http://www.zayedcollege.school.nz/
        http://www.al-madinah.school.nz/
        
        Got to help those children integrate well with NZ society by separating them from the kuffir and the opposite sex.
        
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        February 16, 2017 2:28pm
      - Jack5
        
        “Kiwi gear” for Muslim kids playing sports.
        
        http://www.al-madinah.school.nz/2016/09/16/sports-day-go-ad1/
        
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        February 16, 2017 9:54pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  I totally agree with all of this (apart from pointing out that you do not know that the people you saw were living in New Zealand). I too am puzzled and angered by the continuing silence of feminists on this point.
  
  However, if your concern is to improve the wellbeing and equality enjoyed by Muslim women – do you think that that is more likely to be enhanced if they and their families live in New Zealand, or if they and their families are prevented from doing and have to remain in predominantly Muslim countries?
  
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  February 16, 2017 3:41pm
kowtow

Turk lovers are always telling us that that place is a good example of a Muslim secular country. Alternative fact.

“The imams are accused of reporting on Turkish followers of US-based Islamic preacher Fethullah Gulen, who Erdogan blames for last July’s failed coup attempt against him.

The four imams allegedly passed on information through the Turkish consulate in the western city of Cologne to the Turkish Religious Affairs Directorate, known as Diyanet, prosecutors said.”

https://www.thelocal.de/20170215/police-raid-homes-of-imams-suspected-of-spying-for-turkey
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February 16, 2017 8:11am
Floyd60

Good to see Bill English heading to Christchurch today to manage the message. Donald Brownlee is becoming a liability.
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February 16, 2017 8:26am
- waikatogirl
  
  The fire has gained strength this morning and Gerry does appear to be ready to smack some heads together (figuratively speaking).
  
  The PM visiting is the right thing to do.
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:41am
  - Happychappy
    
    But you will find people on here and other sight will rubbish what ever he does one way or another.
    
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    February 16, 2017 9:00am
- mandk
  
  How is this Brownlee’s responsibility?
  
  It’s not a consequence of the earthquakes and it’s not a defence matter.
  
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  February 16, 2017 9:02am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Isn’t he the Minister of Civil Defence?
    
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    February 16, 2017 9:07am
    - Keeping Stock
      
      He is, but it’s not his responsibility until a State of Emergency is declared. And that’s his beef.
      
      If resources were available but not being used because a paper-shuffler hadn’t thought the situation serious enough to warrant a declaration, you can understand why Brownlee is pissed off.
      
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      February 16, 2017 9:23am
      - ztev
        
        “State of Emergency Declaration”
        This follows the evacuation this afternoon of 300-400 residents as the fire shifted closer to residential properties. It is no longer just a significant rural fire on the boundary of the city. It is now a city issue with suburbs being evacuated.
        ccc.govt.nz/the-council/newsline/show/1406
        
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        February 16, 2017 9:32am
      - cmm
        
        But Gerry Brownlee wears special time traveling underpants.
        
        Once the civil defence emergency was declared he should have gone back in time and sorted everything out.
        
        So therefore it is all on Gerry! Can’t argue with logic.
        
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        February 16, 2017 10:19am
      - marcw
        
        The problems started as the fire began on Monday late afternoon. It was treated as a minor rural emergency, under the control of the rural fire district. This is where the mistake was made – they did not have the vision to see the consequences, and by the time the fire had been left to spread and fester uncontested over a night of high winds it was too late. It is now an uncontrolled disaster. Should have been seen for what it was at the start – a potentially disastrous and destructive time bomb. Instead, the rural fire service sat on their hands overnight, and then it was too late. All hell has broken out, aided by an unfortunate series of strong wind changes – which were in themselves foreseeable to anyone who knows anything about the Port Hills.
        
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        February 16, 2017 11:39am
      - Keeping Stock
        
        Rarely, I agree with you Ztev (9.32am).
        
        It certainly seems as though the potential of the two fires on Monday afternoon to spread has been seriously underestimated. Here’s hoping that with the additional resources now available, the fire can be brought under control.
        
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        February 16, 2017 12:32pm
Happychappy

Well who runs NZ the media or our elected Government. Now we have Journalists from Wellington to tell our Prim Minister that he has to tell the Australian Prime Minister how to run his Country and their detention systems. This is the media tat want to run the USA as they know better than President Trump and the same media that talk about peoples rights in NZ but only if they agree. The same have experts say it is safe to enter the Pike River Mine but when asked can they guarantee there will be no loss of life they can’t give a assurance that will be the case.
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February 16, 2017 8:35am
- peterwn
  
  So we have an Australian (Fairfax) owned newspaper publishing an opinion piece on how Bill English should give Malcolm Turnbull a telling off. If Fairfax is that upset with what its government is doing, then surely it should vent its spleen via SMH, The Age, etc and not expect a NZ based newspaper to do its dirty work.
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:52am
- PhilBest
  
  Exactly – the NZ media is even worse than the US media, in that they are “the opposition Party” – entrenched in a victorious position thus far. Trumpism is probably now the only way of making the political process two-way again. The alternative is what we have – a “centre right” government that is not naturally in cahoots with the media (on PC, multiculturalism, social justice etc) but that nevertheless is driven by an anxiety to be seen as at least equally as virtuous. Otherwise, you know, we would be racists, bigots, and fascists, the media says so.
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:54am
  - ztev
    
    national newspapers more often print stuff from the governments spin doctors.
    As for opinion pieces- its their business, you dont have to read it.
    
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    February 16, 2017 9:34am
    - Salacious Crumb
      
      You forgot to add “and opposition party’s” ztev.
      
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      February 16, 2017 12:19pm
Andrei

Beautiful Jewish woman, shhh don’t tell EAD
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February 16, 2017 8:40am
- Don the Kiwi
  
  Not bad Andrei.
  But I have a niece who would leave her for dead – in looks, guitar playing and singing ability. 🙂
  
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  February 16, 2017 10:52am
- EAD
  
  Mehhh,
  
  no Taylor Swift 🙂
  
  1 10
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  February 16, 2017 11:04am
  - stephieboy
    
    EAD,
    
    Mehh,
    
    Sara Paxton not up to it ?
    
    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTQ3NDUzNTIyOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNTQxMjEyNTE@._V1_UY317_CR80,0,214,317_AL_.jpg
    
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    February 16, 2017 12:55pm
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  That fingerwork on the frets is good
  
  1 0
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  February 16, 2017 6:32pm
Garbageman

So this caught my attention today under the headline
“Help Stuff investigate business rumours” apparently they now want you to dob in unethical “morally questionable” businesses ignore the giving recognition where they deserve part as I doubt that’s what this witch hunt is actually advocating for, so does that mean Facebook & Twitter has officially fun out of ideas and now a direct plea to the public to do their work for them & will this lead to disgruntled employees or anyone with an axe to grind dumping on anyone they see fit
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/17441881/Help-Stuff-investigate-business-rumours
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February 16, 2017 8:43am
- waikatogirl
  
  Stuff: “Are you concerned that a company may be double-dipping, or breaching employment law? Or that they are about to announce major job cuts? Do you suspect a company of operating unethically or unfairly? Or that they have some shady corporate governance?”
  
  That is creepy. What happened to good investigative journalism? Asking the public to dob in a business just because they have a feeling, or worse a personal grievance is abhorrent and indeed a Witch Hunt.
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:57am
  - Garbageman
    
    The next thought that crossed my mind after posting that was what would our favourite lefties like Bradbury & co do with a call to arms like this considering the constant calls for boycotts on certain companies that don’t toe their unionist line I think Talley’s was their latest target will this give them yet another way to have the companies names they don’t like smeared all over our msm pages or do we put what minimal faith most of us already have in a reporter actually doing their job correctly..a dangerous & slippery slope I believe
    
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    February 16, 2017 9:43am
- Keeping Stock
  
  It’s much the same as the pleas they put out every time there is some major incident or emergency.
  
  The worst example was the seige in Napier a few years ago when police officers were slaughtered, where within minutes the Herald was “appealing” for eye-witnesses. I know the media run by the motto “If it bleeds, it leads”, but a lot of the time their interest is both ghoulish and voyeuristic.
  
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  February 16, 2017 9:27am
  - ztev
    
    heard of the off switch ?
    They have a business, and after a century or so they might have a tiny idea of what their customers want.
    catering to rusty old fogeys like you is not going to get any advertisers
    
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    February 16, 2017 9:37am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Actually declining circulation of most Newspapers shows that perhaps they don’t know what their customers want…
      
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      February 16, 2017 10:28am
      - stephieboy
        
        All On Red , declining newspaper circulation may reflect technological changes to online content and the rise of social media and blogssphere .
        
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        February 16, 2017 12:58pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Or… it may reflect the content is shit and no one is buying it. Much like your comments.
        
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        February 16, 2017 4:04pm
    - Keeping Stock
      
      FFS ztev; 61 isn’t old, nor do I have any rust 😎
      
      And since when did newspapers have an on-off switch?
      
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      February 16, 2017 12:35pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Keeping Stock , ” on-off switch ” ? Simply by not buying or reading them including their online editions .
        
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        February 16, 2017 1:01pm
    - Steve (North Shore)
      
      Does ztev have an ‘off switch”? Please tell me where it is.
      Rusty old fogeys? Alaska again this year = Hatcher pass and Alyeska resort this year – just after I retire, my 65th birthday present to myself.
      Care to join me and run up a mountain, motormouth?
      
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      February 16, 2017 6:42pm
    - Awww C-mon
      
      Bro!! Ole Fogey?
      
      Fuk dat nigga ’tis homey aint no fogey
      
      U mus b trippin
      
      1 0
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      February 16, 2017 8:33pm
    - pentwig
      
      ztev
      they have a business but any business needs customers.
      if they keep on catering to the 20% of idiots ie alt left they will have no customers to provide a profit and will topple over.
      how sad , never mind. bias reporting has its consequences.
      
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      February 16, 2017 10:17pm
- Rich Prick
  
  OK. Here’s a company they could take a wee peek at:
  
  http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/01/a_newspaper_that_pays_no_tax_complains_about_tax_avoidance.html
  
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  February 16, 2017 10:47am
NK

Hewlett Packard threatening economic sanctions for law firms not practicing “diversity”: http://www.nzlawyermagazine.co.nz/news/morning-briefing/failing-diversity-standards-will-cost-law-firms-10-per-cent-231309.aspx

…Kim Rivera, HP’s general counsel, has informed law firms that as diversity is “an explicit business goal” for the firm, she expects outside counsel to drive diversity at all levels…or risk losing up to 10 per cent of their invoiced fees”
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February 16, 2017 8:43am
- Lance
  
  HP used to be a great company once. Their equipment was the epitome of quality and innovation.
  Now they make unreliable shit and it appears have also gone PC to the max (pity their actual PC’s aren’t so intense)
  
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  February 16, 2017 8:51am
  - Inandout
    
    Epson or Canon for me, in fact I have had years of use out of my Canon flatbed scanner. Was once a HP fan but as you say they make shit now.
    
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    February 16, 2017 8:59am
  - doggone7
    
    Where is their equipment and the components of it manufactured?
    
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    February 16, 2017 9:00am
    - Inandout
      
      Manufactured in one of the least diverse (and some would say most racist) countries in the world, as I presume you allude to – China.
      
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      February 16, 2017 9:03am
      - ztev
        
        Woody Allen famously has told about his first job, where he worked in a NY city advertising agency and his function was to ‘look jewish’- as the staff were basically all Anglo saxon protestants ( wasps), as shown in Madmen.
        
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        February 16, 2017 9:40am
  - cmm
    
    “Now they make unreliable shit”
    
    The great Carlification of HP. She screwed that company badly.
    
    A CEO with the amazing talent of “got vagina”, then screwing it all up.
    
    Thank goodness for USA she didn’t make it through the first round of presidential hopefuls.
    
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    February 16, 2017 9:44am
- peterwn
  
  That is OK – the customer is always right. Some lawyer tried to sue Westpac claiming there was an ‘agreement’ that Westpac would continue to feed the lawyer borrowing default cases. Westpac’s (then) new general counsel (a woman I think) had laid down new ground rules for engaging outside lawyers which that lawyer could not or would not abide by. Westpac’s lawyer (now a senior judge) slaughtered the lawyer in the hearing and won indemnity (full) costs for Westpac.
  If a company chooses to shoot itself in the foot by hiring law firms on extraneous criteria it is the company’s funeral.
  
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  February 16, 2017 9:04am
  - NK
    
    I think it was their tax work, Peter. But Westpac still nailed him.
    
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    February 16, 2017 9:20am
    - ztev
      
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10492328
      Lawyer dumped by Westpac drops case.
      
      A crtical detail is :Bradbury and Muir were the architects of the $3 billion forestry investment scheme[Trinity]
      
      Im not a lawyer of course but these sort of things fascinate me
      
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      February 16, 2017 9:49am
      - ztev
        
        This is a far more colourful report by Bruce Sheppard
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/blogs/stirring-the-pot/1878055/Westpacs-auditing-woes-brighten-the-courtroom
        
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        February 16, 2017 9:58am
- Huevon
  
  This is becoming more common as major corporate /public sector inhouse legal teams become female dominated. Tenders for jobs now need to address your “commitment to diversity”. It’s madness but an easy win for leftist. Honestly, I think boards don’t care but giving in gets the feminist/mangina general counsel to shut up and the business risk is minimal (good law firms will still make sure the job gets done properly).
  
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  February 16, 2017 10:18am
  - Paulus
    
    In addition nearly all the major firms with large HR Departments are led and staffed by women – many with good legal degrees or equivalent also.
    They seek to employ those with like thinking and it goes merry go round.
    
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    February 16, 2017 11:20am
    - peterwn
      
      As long as these women produce the goods – no worries. In a former job some years ago the three strong legal team were all women. Had a bother and a meeting was held to sort it. We described what we had done so far – the counsel’s eyes lit up – we had done the right things she – was right on to the issues and knew how to play it.
      The art of being a good lawyer is successfully bridging the client’s aspirations with reality. Donald Trump’s lawyers would have been very skilled with this and would be handsomely rewarded. Perhaps women have a better aptitude for this than men.By contrast, I think McDonalds’ lawyers in London took McDonalds for a ride with the McLibel case. They won, but tarnished McDonalds image and McDonalds did not chase the defendants for payment of damages or costs to avoid tarnishing their image further (they had no money anyway). Perhaps a woman in the right place would have stopped the nonsense much earlier.
      
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      February 16, 2017 11:59am
B.L.Zeebub

So, how much has P Bright cost the Auckland ratepayer this week?
A little transparency from her would be nice, probably a step too far to expect her to practice what she preaches, like all lefty parasites.
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February 16, 2017 9:00am
Manolo

We could try this American academic’s approach if Angry Andy wins, don’t you think?
Andrew Newman always pays his taxes, even if he hates what the government is doing with them. But not this year. For him, Donald Trump is the dealbreaker. He’ll pay his city and state taxes but will refuse to pay federal income tax as a cry of civil disobedience against the president and his new administration.

“My tax money will be going towards putting up a wall on the Mexican border instead of helping sick people. It will contribute to the destruction of the environment and maybe more nuclear weapons. I think there will be a redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy elite and Trump’s campaign for the working man and woman was an absolute fraud. If you pay taxes you are implicated in the system,” said Newman, an associate professor of English and history at Stony Brook University on Long Island, part of the State University of New York.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/15/tax-refusing-pay-protest-trump
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February 16, 2017 9:05am
- godruelf
  
  A brave man to take on the IRS. In my experience they don’t take too many prisoners. Hope he’s got deep pockets.
  
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  February 16, 2017 9:49am
- cmm
  
  The wanker didn’t mind when Obama used the same money to bomb the shit out of Middle East and disrupting the situation there.
  
  Nor did he mind when Obama bought guns and sent them to Mexico to try help cause mayhem and death there, but also ended up in drug wars both sides of the border (Operation Fast and Furious).
  
  So I call this bloke what he is: unprincipled.
  
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  February 16, 2017 9:51am
  - kowtow
    
    Or when Obama deported the vulnerable.
    
    “Human rights groups warn that deterrent measures taken by the Obama administration after last year’s “surge” in arrivals at the border of unaccompanied children from Central America have triggered a series of powerful unintended consequences across the region.”
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/12/obama-immigration-deportations-central-america
    
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    February 16, 2017 10:50am
Manolo

The exact opposite of what Pelosi, Obama & co. predicted:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-15/aetna-ceo-says-obamacare-in-a-death-spiral-with-sick-customers

Aetna Inc. Chief Executive Officer Mark Bertolini escalated his criticism of the Affordable Care Act, saying Obamacare’s markets are nearing failure as premiums climb and healthier individuals drop out.

“It is in a death spiral,” Bertolini said in a video interview with the Wall Street Journal that aired Wednesday on the newspaper’s website. He predicted that more insurers will drop out of the market for 2018, following Humana Inc.’s decision to quit Obamacare entirely for next year.
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February 16, 2017 9:42am
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo, how do Trump and yourself propose to provide affordable health care for all Americans who can’t afford ?
  
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  February 16, 2017 9:56am
  - Steve (North Shore)
    
    Ask Obama and Hillary.
    Also don’t be stupider than you are.
    Manolo is not a heath care provider you stupid prick
    
    6 0
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    February 16, 2017 6:49pm
Stars And Stripes

Maori Party co-leader Marama Fox is threatening to walk away from the Government over new legislation that doesn’t ensure Maori children are placed with whanau when the state removes them from their home.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/89450483/marama-fox-threatening-to-walk-away-from-the-government-if-vulnerable-children-legislation-doesnt-change.

Yes you are on the right track for sure with this one Marama as why would the government want to change a policy which has been such a raging success!!.
I am sure the funeral directors of NZ will support your position.
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February 16, 2017 10:02am
- GoVege
  
  I think I can see Marama’s reasoning here.
  I mean, if heaps of Maori kids end up in non-Maori families, they will probably lose their precious “culture” and be lost to Maori ways.
  How will the great Maori culture survive in its purest form if all those thousands of kids in care are tainted by Pakeha nonsense.
  My God….the girls might even learn such things as “gender-equality” and “contraception” and stop having ten kids each on the DPB!
  (At least she doesn’t need to worry about the 71% of youth in jail who are Maori.
  The gangs will take them).
  
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  February 16, 2017 11:15am
Lucia Maria

An interesting call from the Financial Times given Donald Trump’s erratic statements on NATO : Europe needs a new defence pact — and Britain can lead it

There could be no better moment. Britain is leaving the EU, but it still wants a European role. Here is a role for the taking: Britain, together with France, Germany and others — perhaps including non-Nato members like Sweden — should launch a new European security pact that actually reflects political reality. In other words, Europe’s leading defence powers should create an organisation that is compatible with Nato, but which also starts preparing coldly for the day when the US security umbrella might be withdrawn.

I note that there is another article linked to off the above one about the possibility that Germany may need to get nuclear weapons. Think about that for a while. The Germans have been very happy in their land empire (the EU), something they went to war for in 1939 (not the EU but a land empire out east), and now it looks like the whole international order is unravelling, with Trump actively calling for the EU to disband as well as his statements on NATO. What’s Germany to do if that happens? And is anybody really ready for a nuclear-armed Germany that’s only looking out for themselves were the EU to fall apart?
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February 16, 2017 10:21am
- All_on_Red
  
  Meanwhile in the real world far far away from the silly conspiracy theories put up by fanatics…
  ‘In a brief public statement, made while standing alongside Stoltenberg ( NATO Chief), Mattis (US Secretary of Defense)called the alliance “a fundamental bedrock for the United States and for all the trans-Atlantic community.”
  
  NATO a fundamental bedrock for the United States!
  
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  February 16, 2017 10:37am
  - Lucia Maria
    
    So, the Financial Times is peddling silly conspiracy theories (that article I linked to above is written by Anne Applebaum) and all those European leaders worrying about Trump’s commitment to NATO, despite his statements (some for some against – who knows what he’ll do next), can stop worrying now.
    
    All on Red, you’ve really put international relations at rest by sorting all of that out so simply.
    
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    February 16, 2017 10:52am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Mattis is the Defense Secretary. He has stood up at a Press Conference and made these statements.I believe him more than some reporter peddling speculation in a paper.
      Your conspiracy theories, whilst amusing, show your clear Russophobia, Trump Derangement Syndrome and bias clearly.
      
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      February 16, 2017 2:25pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      ‘you’ve really put international relations at rest by sorting all of that out so simply’
      Actually Mattis has. That’s his job and he’s doing it. Whereas your opinions are laughable- like your links full of speculation.
      
      5 0
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      February 16, 2017 2:32pm
      - Lucia Maria
        
        James Mattis looks to be a very good Defence Secretary. I just hope he won’t be overruled by Trump on this. For as good as Mattis is, Trump is the one making everyone nervous, and with good reason. ie erratic statements on this topic.
        
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        February 16, 2017 5:18pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘Everyone nervous’
        Hyperbole- again, and of course the oblique reference to these statements you never detail.
        Did it occur to you that Trump is deliberately being unconventional as a negotiation tactic.
        Just look at his Statement about not being bound to the two state solution for Israel/Palestine.
        The Palestinians will be going, WTF.
        
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        February 16, 2017 7:12pm
  - Komata
    
    AoR
    
    Re: ‘NATO a fundamental bedrock for the United States!’
    
    Aka ‘the outer ring of US security’. It’ been the same for years, with the only change being that the countries involved are now being asked to contribute towards their own defence.
    
    Understandably, they are a little bit upset…
    
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    February 16, 2017 12:54pm
Stars And Stripes

Hate crime law should override freedom of speech – law professor
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/02/hate-crime-law-should-override-freedom-of-speech-law-professor.html.

The thought police are now using the Huntly incident as an excuse to push for hate speech laws which is something they have longed for.
Please don’t panic though everyone as I have it on good authority that even if these laws are passed you will still be able to denigrate Whites, Christians, Heterosexuals and Men with impunity.
22 0
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February 16, 2017 10:34am
- Happychappy
  
  And TV Three has given Andrew Little ammunition to fire at National by dredging up a story from the perpetrator of the Huntly rant and her sister saying she need Mental Health service’s but no one has been able to help her obtain these service’s no mater how hard they try. You watch Andrew Little and Annette King go after this accusation to create a hit on National. Same old story its always other people fault never your own.
  
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  February 16, 2017 10:49am
  - GoVege
    
    Da Nats have been in power for a long time, Happy.
    Most Maori females I know have suffered incredible abuse.
    Where do you think they get those scars and missing teeth?
    The attitude of the government is, family violence is such a huge problem, they can’t afford to pay for all the support needed.
    Yet they spend billions on sport and benefits …
    Maybe their mates in the Maori Party could step up and say/do something about the violence Maori girls are suffering?
    Just kidding….that’ll be the day.
    
    8 3
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    February 16, 2017 12:15pm
- kowtow
  
  Oh well then the freedom of the Koran , which calls for hatred of Jews and other non believers, will be curtailed. These clowns should be careful with what they wish for.
  
  13 0
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  February 16, 2017 10:57am
  - EAD
    
    Oh well then the freedom of the Koran , which calls for hatred of Jews and other non believers, will be curtailed
    
    .
    
    You should read the Talmud if you want to see real hate is or see what the Jewish Supreme Spiritual Leader has to say about the Goyim!
    
    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/adl-slams-shas-spiritual-leader-for-saying-non-jews-were-born-to-serve-jews-1.320235
    
    2 6
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    February 16, 2017 11:35am
- GoVege
  
  I contend that it could be the Muslim woman at fault in this case.
  She deliberately went to an area with a high concentration of Maori and started filming one innocently going about her business in a public loo.
  The victim, suffering anxiety from years of sexist. ..I mean colonial oppression, went into panic mode and started throwing medication containers.
  When she saw her tormenter was clad in the garb of yet more alien invaders, she lost it.
  Where is the compassion and understanding this religion of peace is famous for?
  
  14 0
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  February 16, 2017 11:27am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I don’t think you can denigrate women, even white, Christian, heterosexual ones.
  
  So let’s rewrite the last part of your last sentence (and save a few commas)….
  
  …you will still be able to denigrate heteronormative white Christian men.
  
  4 0
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  February 16, 2017 7:09pm
waikatogirl

Cadbury, Dunedin have signalled they will close their factory in 2018 due to falling sales.

Cadbury lost my custom when they made an inferior product by including palm oil in their chocolate, giving it an odd flavour.

Changed to Whittakers, never went back. Whittakers have a brilliant chocy range.
21 0
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February 16, 2017 11:04am
- Stars And Stripes
  
  Shame on you.
  Just by mentioning chocolate and the fact you eat it you are tempting vulnerable people to become obese.
  Need to get send a health campaigner up to your place and re educate you?.
  
  13 0
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  February 16, 2017 11:45am
  - Awww C-mon
    
    I’ll go!!
    
    Wonder who will end up educated?
    
    2 0
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    February 16, 2017 8:39pm
- marcw
  
  Indeed – changed the taste that everyone liked, reduced the size, increased the price, and, quelle surprise, sales slumped. … but it’s nothing to do with Cadbury!
  
  16 0
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  February 16, 2017 11:52am
- waikatogirl
  
  Stars, haven’t you heard dark chocolate is good for your health. //
  Have you tried Whittakers: Hawke’s Bay black doris plum and roasted almond, also the ginger and mandarin is gorgeous! ?
  
  13 0
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  February 16, 2017 12:55pm
  - Stars And Stripes
    
    “Stars, haven’t you heard dark chocolate is good for your health.”
    
    Of course and white chocolate is bad as the narrative goes.
    People are so racist these days.?
    
    10 0
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    February 16, 2017 1:05pm
    - RalphT
      
      Black chocolate matters?
      
      13 0
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      February 16, 2017 1:51pm
      - Steve (North Shore)
        
        White does for me. The Milky Bars are on me!
        Um no, the milky bars are on mikenmild.
        Come in Mike
        
        6 0
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        February 16, 2017 6:56pm
Manolo

Deliciously ironic:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-belgium-cycling-theft-idUSKBN15T1W1

A Belgian minister arrived by bike to a news conference to promote cycling on Tuesday, only to find it had been stolen when he left half an hour later.

Ben Weyts, minister of mobility for the Dutch-speaking region of Flanders, unveiled a plan to invest 300 million euros in cycle lanes until 2019, as part of a wider program to promote alternative modes of transport.

“We left the bike in racks at the station and locked it,” a spokesman for the minister said. “When we got back half an hour later, it was gone.”
15 1
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February 16, 2017 11:19am
- Gabby
  
  Cars never get stolen.
  Known fact.
  Not manuro.
  
  1 11
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  February 16, 2017 1:03pm
rangitoto

Paris enjoys cultural enrichment.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/767867/PARIS-riots-latest-fighting-barbes-metro-eurostar-gare-du-Nord
10 0
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February 16, 2017 11:27am
sooty

Is the new mayor of New Plymouth going to be as tits useless as the last one.
7 0
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February 16, 2017 11:34am
Hugh Pavletich

New Zealand Bank Bosses (wrongly … it is just ‘mortgage slavery’) see debt to income ratios of 5 to 7 as ideal ! … Interest Co NZ

Bank bosses see debt-to-income ratio between 5 and 7 as ideal in any new RBNZ macro-prudential tool | interest.co.nz

https://www.interest.co.nz/personal-finance/85999/bank-bosses-see-debt-income-ratio-between-5-and-7-ideal-any-new-rbnz-macro

New Zealand bank executives believe an ideal debt-to-income (DTI) ratio set by any Reserve Bank DTI tool should be between five and seven, according to KPMG’s annual Financial Institutions Performance Survey (FIPS). … read more via hyperlink above …

2017 13th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey

http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf

In normal housing markets the price of housing does not exceed 3.0 times annual household incomes requiring mortgage loads of about 2.5 times.

Demographia in the news …

https://www.google.co.nz/?gws_rd=ssl#q=demographia&tbm=nws
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February 16, 2017 11:35am
- Happychappy
  
  Gee Labour and Twyford must so busy looking at their internal polls as you don’t seem to cut and pasting to much this week.
  
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  February 16, 2017 1:26pm
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Why is the National led Government constantly lying about housing performance ?
  
  Nick Smith is doing a remarkable job leading them to the Opposition benches 23 September.
  
  Governments lose elections … Oppositions don’t win them …
  
  Govt building boom claim fueled by 137% rise in building costs since 2004, Labour says; Twyford vs Smith in Parliament take-two | interest.co.nz
  
  https://www.interest.co.nz/property/86021/govt-building-boom-claim-fueled-137-rise-building-costs-2004-labour-says-twyford-vs
  
  Smith, Twyford & Peters battle over housing figures as consents-to-builds rates, state house building and shortfall estimates are aired in Parliament | interest.co.nz
  
  https://www.interest.co.nz/property/86000/smith-twyford-peters-battle-over-housing-figures-consents-builds-rates-state-house
  
  Brian Rudman: Housing crisis falls victim to spread of ‘alternative facts’ virus – Business – NZ Herald News
  
  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11800504
  
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  February 16, 2017 3:45pm
Fletch

re: Trump, and the Flynn resignation…

Anyone remember in 2008 when Obama (who was not yet president) sent a back-door emissary to Iran and told them not to take Bush’s deal, because he, Obama, would get them a better deal once he got in?

Barack Obama had clinched the Democratic nomination on June 3. At some point either before or after that date, but prior to the election, he secretly let the Iranians know that he would be much easier to bargain with than President Bush. Michael Ledeen reported the story last year:

During his first presidential campaign in 2008, Mr. Obama used a secret back channel to Tehran to assure the mullahs that he was a friend of the Islamic Republic, and that they would be very happy with his policies. The secret channel was Ambassador William G. Miller, who served in Iran during the shah’s rule, as chief of staff for the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, and as ambassador to Ukraine. Ambassador Miller has confirmed to me his conversations with Iranian leaders during the 2008 campaign.

So Obama secretly told the mullahs not to make a deal until he assumed the presidency, when they would be able to make a better agreement. Which is exactly what happened: Obama abandoned the requirement that Iran stop enriching uranium, so that Iran’s nuclear program has sped ahead over the months and years that negotiations have dragged on.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/03/how-barack-obama-undercut-bush-administrations-nuclear-negotiations-with-iran.php
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February 16, 2017 11:42am
- SPC
  
  Little new, Nixon re Vietnam 1968, Reagan re Iran 1980.
  
  But misleading your own President about it is another level.
  
  4 1
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  February 16, 2017 2:45pm
  - stephieboy
    
    If actually what Obama did is actually true !
    
    2 14
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    February 16, 2017 3:04pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Has anyone figured out what stephieboy’s sentence (actually) means?
      
      4 0
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      February 16, 2017 7:15pm
      - Awww C-mon
        
        You read them?
        
        6 0
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        February 16, 2017 8:40pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I’m a sucker for strangulation of language.
        
        4 0
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        February 16, 2017 9:00pm
Stars And Stripes

Stalemate over Indian students facing deportation for immigration fraud.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11801738.
“Immigration Minister Michael Woodhouse has effectively ruled out sending agents into the church to detain them.”This is a place of religion, a house of God, and I don’t think it’s appropriate that people get wrestled to the ground and taken out in a church,” Woodhouse said yesterday.
The students’ lawyer Alastair McClymont said the Government seemed willing to wait until the students left the church”.

What a gutless wimp.
Best thing for Woodhouse to do would be to go The Warehouse and buy a spine as they might even be on special if he is lucky.
18 1
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February 16, 2017 12:35pm
Manolo

Can too many veils and hijabs be the source of sexual repression?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4225130/Migrant-arrested-sexually-assaulting-young-mum.html

An Afghan immigrant has been arrested after an alleged sex attack on a young mother in broad daylight while she was pushing a pram with her two children in.

The attack is said to have happened on the popular Danube Island in the Austrian capital of Vienna, filled with bars and restaurants.
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February 16, 2017 12:40pm
Captain Mainwaring

Hope she gets the job, it will keep her away from here for a bit longer.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11801941

Mr. Davis will be pleased as well.
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February 16, 2017 1:40pm
- RalphT
  
  Agree, captain; the longer she stays away the better, though I suspect she would find solving world problems a doddle compared to coming back here to patch up the Labour Party.
  
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  February 16, 2017 1:55pm
SPC

The USA (Trump) is no longer committed to a two state solution peace process.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38987028
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February 16, 2017 2:23pm
- Inandout
  
  Why does BeeBeebC edit Trump’s speeches when Fox shows the full recording?
  
  5 1
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  February 16, 2017 3:23pm
jonar

http://newsthump.com/2017/02/14/vladimir-putin-appointed-as-donald-trumps-national-security-advisor/

President Trump has once again defied both convention and logic by appointing Russian President Vladimir Putin as his new National Security Advisor following the resignation of Michael Flynn.

🙂
2 5
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February 16, 2017 2:31pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Heh, careful Jonah, Lucia will probably believe that! All you need is a Journalist to say ‘confirmed by four unnamed sources’ and it’s a lock!
  My fave was this one;: The leaks about Flynn actually came from Trump as a way of cutting the Russians loose now that he doesn’t need them. – lol. The truth is out there!
  
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  February 16, 2017 2:38pm
  - stephieboy
    
    From one who believes that NATO is a sham of a collective security arrangement and the US should do “a peace in our time ” and Trump accede to Putin’s demands over its border states ?
    
    1 15
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    February 16, 2017 3:03pm
Manolo

Our stephieboy will be horrified:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-election-idUSKBN15T2HO?il=0

Campaigning for the Dutch election began on Wednesday with anti-Islam leader Geert Wilders frontrunner in a vote that will test the anti-establishment sentiment that swept Britain out of the European Union and Donald Trump into the U.S. presidency.
14 0
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February 16, 2017 3:24pm
big bruv

I have just seen Lianne Dalziel on TV, she seemed sober!
6 0
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February 16, 2017 6:13pm
- Happychappy
  
  I see your mate Ritchie was doing a great job helping put out the fire.
  
  8 0
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  February 16, 2017 6:44pm
- dad4justice
  
  Was Richie cheating while helping to put out the fire bigot blouse?
  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11802121
  
  1 11
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  February 16, 2017 7:03pm
  - stigie
    
    Did you manage to get a fly over the fire with Richie to see the damage Dad..?
    
    5 1
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    February 16, 2017 8:13pm
    - dad4justice
      
      No stigfly I was busy driving a water tanker why do you ask you strange chap?
      
      3 4
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      February 16, 2017 8:31pm
- RF
  
  big bruv
  
  It was a cardboard cut out.
  
  2 0
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  February 16, 2017 9:21pm
Tom Barker

Congratulations to those US Republican representatives who refused to support Puzder, Trump’s nominee for labor secretary. He withdrew rather than face a humiliating defeat at his nomination hearing. Puzder is nothing but a thug, and the actions of his fellow Republicans show that they recognise he is unfit to hold public office.
1 8
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February 16, 2017 6:47pm
- All_on_Red
  
  A rare time I agree with Tom- although thug is a bit harsh.
  Mind you, Obama had 3 withdraw and Clinton had 5, so not easy to find the right people.
  
  7 1
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  February 16, 2017 7:06pm
Jack5

Critic alleges Obama running a guerrilla campaign against Trump through the Organising for Action organisation with its thousands of members.

If true, does Obama want a civil war???

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5322636106001/?#sp=show-clips
3 1
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February 16, 2017 10:13pm
Jack5

Dan Rather, now aged 85, reckons the Trumpist-Russia allegations could be the biggest American political story since Watergate.

Has Rather still got all his marbles?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38984240
3 1
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February 16, 2017 10:24pm
Manolo

No longer a far-fetched possibility:
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/15/marine-le-pen-is-on-course-to-be-frances-next-president-leonie-hill-capitals-arun-kant-says.html

Marine Le Pen is on course to be the next president of France, according to one fund manager’s big-data analysis.

Arun Kant, chief executive and chief investment officer at Singapore-based investing firm Leonie Hill Capital, told CNBC he expected the right-wing populist to prevail thanks to his firm’s proprietary artificial intelligence system’s analysis of troves of data.
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February 17, 2017 6:49am

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