General Debate 12 December 2016

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William of Ockham

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Will Bill English win the election?

Vladimir Putin says, “It depends on me.”
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December 12, 2016 8:03am
- Nostradamus
  
  You shouldn’t insult winners – they ensure that losers like you have something to aspire to!
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:05am
  - William of Ockham
    
    Leaving aside Bill lost out last time, my comment was about the next election. The CIA stated the Russians interfered in the POTUS election.
    
    Anyway, Bill will get my vote.
    
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    December 12, 2016 8:24am
    - Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
      
      The jewish Washington Post is pushing the fake news “The Russains did it!” big time in a desperate attempt to destroy Trump. They have zero evidence of course, and like the Greenie claims of vote hacking and recount, will die. Progressives never learn.
      
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      December 12, 2016 8:43am
      - ross411
        
        It’s like you’re one hinge on, one hinge off. You just had to throw Jewish in there. It would have been acceptable to put “left” or something more realistic.
        
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        December 12, 2016 8:52am
      - EAD
        
        It’s like you’re one hinge on, one hinge off. You just had to throw Jewish in there.
        
        Aside from current Jewish owner Jeff Bezos,
        
        The Editor is Martin Baron who was was born in Tampa, Florida to Jewish immigrants from Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Baron
        
        The long time owners before (((Bezos)))and chairman of the Board is Donald E Graham who wikipedia describe as . His parents were Katharine Graham (née Meyer), later a publisher of The Washington Post, and her husband, Philip Graham.[2][3] His maternal grandmother, Agnes Meyer, was a German Lutheran.[2][3] His maternal grandfather, Eugene Meyer, was German Jewish and descended from a rabbinical family in Strasbourg. He bought the bankrupt Post shortly after stepping down as Chairman of the Federal Reserve in mid-1933
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_E._Graham
        
        Ross411, I too once upon a time viewed the world in strictly from a great idelogical divide of left vs. right as it is the narrative the MSM paints every single story from and which our “parties that represent us” are defined.
        
        When you look closer however, it becomes so astonishing the massive over-representation members from a middle-eastern tribe have over the key choke points in our society and how they use that influence.
        
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        December 12, 2016 10:11am
      - ross411
        
        EAD: You suggest it like there’s a giant conspiracy of Jews, Ockham’s Razor suggests that they’re generally more hard-working.
        
        No-one cares if Jews give Jews more opportunities, because it’s who you know, rather than what you know. We all do it in all societies.
        
        Your should look long and hard at your take on this, because it sounds more like bitterness than correctness.
        
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        December 12, 2016 12:38pm
      - EAD
        
        EAD: You suggest it like there’s a giant conspiracy of Jews, Ockham’s Razor suggests that they’re generally more hard-working.
        
        No-one cares if Jews give Jews more opportunities, because it’s who you know, rather than what you know. We all do it in all societies.
        
        Ross411, What I am dumfounded by though is the mysterious phenomena that defies the universal law of averages and random chance. A random chance that is the equivalent of a dice being rolled 100 times and coming up 6 everytime.
        
        Population of Jews in the West = 15 milliion or 1/50 of the population :
        
        Number of Jewish spokesmen, organisations, media moguls and academics, boards of deputies that live in the West, and have been at the forefront of agitating agressively for replacement level third world immigration to the West for the last 50 years, but not for Israel .
        
        Answer; All of them
        
        Population of Whites in the West? 750 million = or 50 times more than the number of Jews.
        
        Number of Whites agitating for open borders and third world mass immigration to Israel, but closed borders for their own Western countries?
        
        Answer; None, nada, zilch, zero.
        
        The White cultural pysche is not capable of practicising the same double -think, double moral hypocrisy and chutzpah.
        
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        December 12, 2016 8:04pm
    - markm
      
      No the CIA have not declared Russia was involved in the hacking.
      Anonymous CIA sources told the WaPo that they believed it to be the case.
      the article also pointed out later that their was division over this.
      
      The FBI have publicly stated Russia was not involved.
      If you wish to believe anonymous sources ,that aren’t even unanimous , then you surely believed the official position of the CIA about WMD in Iraq.
      
      That worked out well didn’t it William.
      Best to just wait for official reports and not jump to conclusions.
      Whatever the outcome , hacking DNC and Clinton emails is clearly easy when Clinton deliberately flouts digital security rules.
      She has no one to blame but herself
      
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      December 12, 2016 8:49am
      - Griff
        
        The denunciation, made by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the Department of Homeland Security, came as pressure was growing from within the administration and some lawmakers to publicly name Moscow and hold it accountable for actions apparently aimed at sowing discord around the election.
        
        “The U.S. Intelligence Community is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from U.S. persons and institutions, including from U.S. political organizations,” said a joint statement from the two agencies. “. . . These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the U.S. election process.”
        
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-government-officially-accuses-russia-of-hacking-campaign-to-influence-elections/2016/10/07/4e0b9654-8cbf-11e6-875e-2c1bfe943b66_story.html?utm_term=.2759e543975a
        
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        December 12, 2016 8:59am
- holysheet
  
  look out, the village idiot is back.
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:07am
- Kimbo
  
  It’s a while since Bill Sutch was taking orders from Moscow…
  
  BTW, why is saying that an irrational “Reds under the bed!” scare, whereas any number of conspiracies can be laid at the feet of right wing cabals?
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:11am
  - William of Ockham
    
    Oh, I thought the CIA had declared Putin had decided the POTUS election. Sort of.
    
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    December 12, 2016 8:20am
    - Nostradamus
      
      That’d be CIA, Dennis. The CAA is an agency you’d be familiar with, of course, as they investigate unplanned plane landings!
      
      Edit: I see you’ve fixed your comment.
      
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      December 12, 2016 8:22am
    - holysheet
      
      There you are, evidence that we have a village idiot. It’s CIA, not CAA.
      Trumps reply to the CIA accusation was worth gold. “These are the people who said Sadam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction”.
      How did that work out for them
      
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      December 12, 2016 8:26am
      - All_on_Red
        
        If Russia wanted to influence the election, they should’ve just donated millions to Hillary like all the respectable foreign powers did.
        We all know Hillary had it in the bag until Russia hacked the Rust Belt working class and convinced them that she’d keep sending their jobs overseas. Russia definitely has e-mails showing how the RNC rigged their primary to favor Trump, colluded shamelessly with CNN, and fed Trump the Debate questions- but Putin wont release them! It’s a conspiracy!
        Besides the CIA just doesn’t seem like the kind of organization that would go around propagating disinformation about a regime it opposes, you know?
        /sarc-Heh.
        
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        December 12, 2016 8:38am
      - stephieboy
        
        All on Wed and Holysheet ,
        
        update us on Pizzagate please ?
        
        http://flavorwire.com/595459/watch-stephen-colbert-pizzagate-and-the-alt-right
        
        Holysheet , WAM ? BTW a war that Donald supported like the overthrow of Gadaffi !
        
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        December 12, 2016 9:41am
      - Lance
        
        So the CIA know nothing?
        
        Actually think about this for a moment rather than spouting the usual idiotic partisan blather
        
        The POTUS declares no confidence in the CIA.
        This is serious shit
        
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        December 12, 2016 10:08am
      - GoVege
        
        Wasn’t it kinda hard to tell when the Butcher of Baghdad wouldn’t let the inspectors in to check?
        Maybe we were just lucky he didn’t. ..
        
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        December 12, 2016 7:15pm
  - Griff
    
    Because the source is the CIA
    Are they a bunch of “lefty’s” now like the worlds scientific and academic community’s?
    
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    December 12, 2016 8:25am
    - holysheet
      
      Yes.
      
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      December 12, 2016 8:32am
      - stephieboy
        
        holysheet , you’re unwell !
        
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        December 12, 2016 9:44am
      - holysheet
        
        Not a full retard like you though stupidboy. My meds will fix me. Unlike you, there is no hope. If I was in your condition, I would look forward to my 72 virgins.?
        
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        December 12, 2016 11:37am
    - mikenmild
      
      Of course Griff. They becomes ‘lefties’ when they have the temerity to argue with the Orangutan-elect.
      
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      December 12, 2016 8:34am
      - Simon
        
        You ladies have been reduced to conspiracy theories about how the Russians hacked the election. Sad!
        
        Greatest election ever.
        
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        December 12, 2016 8:40am
      - William of Ockham
        
        Potus orangutanus
        
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        December 12, 2016 8:41am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Is he replacing another one ? Funny how racist it would be to call the current POTUS an ape isn’t it. But it’s quite OK to call Trump one….funny indeed how the world works.
        
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        December 12, 2016 11:04am
      - holysheet
        
        If trump is an orange ape then obumma is a black ape/////
        
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        December 12, 2016 11:23am
    - tom hunter
      
      Because the source is the CIA
      
      Not quite. The “sources” are unnamed CIA members according to the WaPo, and considering how wrong and how biased they were during the election there should be serious questionmarks put up beside any link to the likes of the WaPo, NYT and company.
      
      We’re in for a long period of people talking past eachother on various debates because the MSM are even more distrusted than before (and that’s saying something). And that includes me: I’ve occasionally dropped in links to the WaPo, but I now think that their journalists are either grossly spinning whatever information they get from sources, or making it up out of wholecloth. In other words, these credentialed, “respected”, US MSM journalists are basically lying in favour of the Democrat Party. I just no longer believe their reports on almost anything.
      
      Having said that, I’ve never been in doubt that the Russians were conducting hacking – for the simple reason that everybody is. And I find it amusing to note that the same people who were waving away the Russians as a serious geo-political threat – ..the 1980’s called and they want their foreign policy back – are now all concerned about them. I’ve seen more heat from Obama on down about this than I saw about Russia taking Crimea. Nice to know what the Democrat’s priorities are.
      
      And in any case the reality is that the Russians did not write what was found – Democrats did, and it’s those revelations that were so damaging.
      
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      December 12, 2016 9:23am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Hmm,
        Here are links to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the Department of Homeland Security.
        It seems odd that these ‘statements’ accusing Russia are not mentioned in eaches News or Press Release sections…
        https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases
        https://www.dhs.gov/news-releases/press-releases
        
        Maybe Putin hacked them and deleted the Statements!
        Russia, China and others have been trying this sort of thing on for years. The US no doubt does it back. Heck, we have ‘Five Eyes’ here in NZ listening in on communications..
        But to say Clinton lost because of it is just denying how useless she was and how the people saw through it.
        
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        December 12, 2016 10:05am
      - cha
        
        It seems odd that these ‘statements’ accusing Russia are not mentioned
        
        Well, not since October.
        
        The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations.
        
        https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national
        
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        December 12, 2016 2:24pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      No, source is “anonymous source {said to be} within the CIA”.
      
      AKA: A disinformation campaign being run from Democrat HO aided and abetted by a very compliant media.
      
      But trust Griff to fall for it.
      
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      December 12, 2016 4:26pm
    - GoVege
      
      Virtually everyone is a “leftie” to holy sheet, Griff.
      
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      December 12, 2016 7:17pm
  - Inandout
    
    Not only Sutch, but the unions and some Labour MPs during the 1950s. We only know this because of the Soviet KGB files disclosed after the collapse.
    
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    December 12, 2016 9:11am
    - G152
      
      And the deal that ended up with all those useless Polish tractors.
      Or the many stories that Truth was unable to print as they would have affected the government of the day
      
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      December 12, 2016 1:14pm
- Ed Snack
  
  William, the 1980’s called and want their foreign policy back ! Remember 2012 ! (Apologies to Tom)
  
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  December 12, 2016 11:02am
Huevon

On this day, a smooth transition of power will take place in the National government. And, lo, there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth on the left benches.
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December 12, 2016 8:09am
- kowtow
  
  No , according to one of our leading “journalists’, Ploddy Glower , there was blood letting in this “contest”. What planet do leading journalists live on?
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:18am
  - Dave Mann
    
    I love your name for him! Why is this demented fuckwit still in a job?
    
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    December 12, 2016 8:38am
    - Manolo
      
      Many ask the same question.
      
      Gower’s journalism is of the lowest possible quality, and a true reflection of the level of entire profession in today’s NZ.
      
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      December 12, 2016 11:12am
      - Dave Mann
        
        Yes and not only is he a useless ‘journalist, but, in a visual medium, he looks and sounds like an escapee from the funny farm.
        
        Who gave this person a job in TV?
        
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        December 12, 2016 11:59am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Paddy Gower must spend a good deal of time with his head up his arse. Thats the only explanation for the crap he sprouts. I change channels if I hear he is about to start pontificating.
      
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      December 12, 2016 7:27pm
- RF
  
  A good result that Angry’s mob will never achieve.
  
  What a sad individual who is going to get rolled when Bill kicks his arse.
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:19am
  - Morrissey
    
    Remember 2002?
    
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    December 12, 2016 8:17pm
- PhilP
  
  Watch the nasty attacks start from the opposition benches tomorrow at question time.
  Just heard a Pom (came here in the 70’s) calling NewstalkZB saying he doesn’t consider that Paula Bennett should be held up as a role model for getting off the benefit and making something of her life. What a TWAT, send that man home!
  
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  December 12, 2016 9:33am
  - Happychappy
    
    He might be related to Chuck
    
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    December 12, 2016 9:52am
Happychappy

Well the media are true to form Ally on Paul Henry this morning on pike river demand from Bernie Monk for Bill English to meet them on Tuesday. Vairity what is happening in the poll and her reply was 59%, Ally then say oh i thought there would be a lot more than that. So the poll should have read come and vote to demand Bill English meet with Bernie Monk because they are trying to get a hit on Bill before he has been sworn in.
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December 12, 2016 8:14am
- G152
  
  Since the bunnies have shut Solid Energy out of their property I say let them have the mine.
  Let them kill off people entering the drift to ‘find’ the remains of human remains with the knowledge that they will be charged with the Manslaughter of those reentering the drift.
  And block access to the private road
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:27am
- Chuck Bird
  
  I agree that making a demand is not the most tactful way to go. You can argue semantics but I think they have good reason to believe they have been lied to. John Key made a promise. The issue you is the definition of safe.
  
  I have not seen the plan they are going to make public tomorrow. However, I have discussed this with a former mines rescue member from the North Island who has not had anything to do with Pike River. He believe the drift can be entered with an acceptable level of risk.
  
  I say John Key is very selective over what he keeps his word on. There of course is the matter of evidence.
  
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  December 12, 2016 1:09pm
  - Happychappy
    
    Were you there when it was made, some say people are twisting words
    
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    December 12, 2016 2:17pm
macdee

what we don’t hear http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/87134172/pike-river-mother-says-no-to-reentry-appalled-by-protest
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December 12, 2016 8:14am
holysheet

When will it end. once again my morning TV viewing is blighted by that leftie fucker Bernie bloody Monk crowing that they demand a meeting with the new PM .

Go away and just let it be.
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December 12, 2016 8:17am
- Rich Prick
  
  I’ve had enough of “the families”. This might sound heartless, but it was six years ago, let it go. Must we endure “the families” for another six years? The families of other tragedy victims from 2010-11 have far more dignity.
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:49am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    I’ve posted this in reply to big bruv on the previous thread, but it is equally relevant here so I will repeat myself.
    
    I heard on the 8am news that the families are heading to Parliament tomorrow to “confront” new PM Bill English.
    
    Maybe if they were to seek a meeting with English in a less confrontational manner, they might have a chance of resolving their grievance. But when you see signs on the fence at the blockade accusing the Government of murder, you soon realise there is little chance of this ever being resolved in a manner which would dignify the memories of those who sadly perished when Pike River blew itself to kingdom come.
    
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    December 12, 2016 8:56am
    - Rich Prick
      
      Very good point KS. It seems to be that their “grievance” has become bigger than those they lost. This is about where they lose any sympathy and just become annoying.
      
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      December 12, 2016 9:03am
      - Keeping Stock
        
        I really do feel sorry for all the Pike River families in their loss. But apart from giving those who vehemently oppose the Government a stick to attack Key, English and co with, there seems to be little purpose in the latest campaign.
        
        Pike River is clearly unstable, and unsafe to be entered. It should be sealed, and remain sealed as the final resting place of the 29 men who perished there.
        
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        December 12, 2016 9:15am
    - howitis
      
      Bernie Monk broke the Kirk Lazarus rule: Don’t go full retard.
      He is now an anarchic law breaker.
      
      Strip his New Zealand Order of Merit he was awarded at the beginning of the year.
      He has forfeited any right to sympathy and has expended all goodwill.
      He has no end game. He is in full retard mode.
      
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      December 12, 2016 10:28am
  - waikatogirl
    
    Bernie Monk DEMANDING a meeting with the newly appointed PM on his first day is ridiculous.
    Perhaps Bill should just shut the whole situation down by refusing to engage from here on in.
    
    Six years on and the families are feeding their grief by keeping all this going. It is time for the living to get on with their lives. Would those who died in the mine really want their loved ones to be so focused on grief and not living their own lives. I doubt it.
    
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    December 12, 2016 8:57am
    - Inandout
      
      Grief is a condition that feeds on uncertainty, rather like when aircraft go missing and there are no bodies. It is human nature to want to bury loved ones, not have an explosion do it. Add to the mixture an appallingly run company such as Solid Energy and you have problems. An impossible situation, and I just thank God I don’t walk a mile in those relatives’ shoes.
      
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      December 12, 2016 9:22am
      - KevinH
        
        Is it reasonable for Bernie to ask others to risk their lives to satisfy his conscience.And should the re entry into the drift strike trouble whose responsibility is it to attempt a rescue?.
        Lastly, is it possible to fly a drone in?.
        
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        December 12, 2016 9:39am
      - rangitoto
        
        Kevinh, A drone with it’s little electric motors most likely would detonate the mine when it arrived at the point of the right mix of air and methane. Even if didn’t set of an explosion what happens when it is out of radio contact?
        
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        December 12, 2016 5:20pm
    - SteveRemmington
      
      Under the H&S Act the responsibility for administration and compliance of Health and Safety falls to those in control of the work site. Considering the Pike River Group have refused access to Solid Energy then Solid Energy have reasonable grounds to hand control and all associated costs and responsibilities onto the new controller of the Workplace/
      
      Just saying.
      
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      December 12, 2016 12:31pm
  - Paulus
    
    Many families do not consider Monk acts for them. Some have moved away. Many are content to let their loved one lay where they fell doing what they wanted to do as a miner.
    I have asked before, where did our family money donated to the families along with over $30,000,000 of various other donations, along with the taxpayers go ?
    Monk get back to your pub and have another whisky or two.
    With the temperatures involved in the explosions there will only be dust if anything.
    Let them lay in peace.
    
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    December 12, 2016 10:15am
    - Komata
      
      FWIW, Mr Monk and his associates are supported (and evidently emboldened) by a body of opinion amongst ‘Coasters which wonders why the mine was closed with what they perceive as ‘indecent haste’. Not unnaturally (and given that the various enquiries found negligence by the operators), this has given rise to a ‘conspiracy theory’ which strongly suggests that there are very good reasons why ‘unnamed persons’ do not want the mine to be reopened under any circumstances.
      
      In view of such support. Mr Monk now believes he has a mandate to proceed and is acting accordingly.
      
      As I have previously suggested, there should be no restriction on rescuers entering the mine, BUT only on the basis that they do so entirely at their own risk and that if anything goes wrong, they take the consequences with the very clear understanding that there is absolutely no comeback on anyone, by anyone.
      
      I doubt very much that Mr. Monk will accept the challenge – it’as far easier to talk big rather than put one’s money where one’s mouth is, and as it is giving him the 15 minutes of fame that he evidently craves (and has come to like), he will never take-up the challenge…
      
      All hat, no horse would be a reasonable summation.
      
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      December 12, 2016 12:32pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        I am beginging to feel that the people wanting to enter the mine have a point. Judging by the over reaction to the hazards posed by the condemned buildings in the latest earth quake by civil defence and other safety “experts”, it is quite possible they are overstating the dangers of entering the mine. I belive there are experts that deem the mine safe to enter. I believe those experts should be given a chance at their own risk. If they go down and it explodes again , then maybe the rest will leave it alone. If it doesnt blow up, everyone will be happy, ( unless you are a conspiracy kind of guy and beleive they don’t want anyone poking around down there as they might not like what they find…..) Unfortuneatly, this is becoming a political football, and it doesn’t take away the grief of the ones that lost relatives.
        
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        December 12, 2016 7:38pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Rich Prick, if the real experts are allowed to enter the drift we may not hear anymore from them. I do not think any expert will say it is say to enter the mine proper.
    
    There is a widower of a woman killed in a building collapse in the Christchurch earthquake who want someone held to account. Do you think he should let it go?
    
    Do you think Blessie Gotingco’s widower should let things got because her killer should never have be released?
    
    I say look at the evidence that the drift can be entered with an acceptable level of risk and that level of risk should not be determined by this government.
    
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    December 12, 2016 1:19pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      I get what you are saying, but it is the media whoring every other day that needs to stop. That’s what I meant by “let it go”. Public opinion will change nothing, so there is no need to continuously attempt to shape it.
      
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      December 12, 2016 3:10pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        There is no guarantee that public opinion will change anything. It only changes John Key’s position if it involves swinging voters.
        
        It helped with Arthur Thomas, Teina Pora and others. It has not worked for Peter Ellis.
        
        Do you believe that Key said the bodies would be recovered if possible? If so, do you think it is not possible without a high risk?
        
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        December 12, 2016 4:43pm
    - Nookin
      
      What is an acceptable level of risk? One chance in 10? One in one hundred? How do you calculate the odds when you have no idea of the build up in the mine and the strength of the infrastructure.
      
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      December 12, 2016 10:10pm
- Peter
  
  Tired of hearing about this futile Pike River nonsense.
  
  I hope the government ignores people who appear to now be pursuing a political agenda.
  
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  December 12, 2016 2:12pm
EAD

Unfortunately a paywalled article but sums up nicely the legacy of Key’s reign. On The Money: Key leaves lingering racist legacy

It’s a shame that the MSM does not produce articles like this for a bit of truth in sunshine about the toxic legacy he has left the country despite promises when first elected to have full & final settlements within 5 years:

https://www.nbr.co.nz/subscribe/197734#comment-position

some excerpts:

2017, the bitter fruits of the Key government’s wrongheaded Maori policies will become much more apparent. Few other politicians in modern history can have done more than Mr Key to create conditions ripe for the destruction of racial equality.

Treaty Negotiations Minister Christopher Finlayson comes close but, ultimately, Mr Key bears the greater responsibility…..

This year its Independent Iwi Constitutional Working Group published a document on “constitutional transformation” entitled He Whakaaro Here Whakaumu Mo Aotearoa, which sets out a five-year plan for promoting law changes that would permanently privilege Maori descendants over all other New Zealanders.

Such is the calibre of the fundamentally racist programme Mr Key has nurtured, facilitated, legitimated and normalised through his devil’s bargain with the Maori Party, which is not even a loyal coalition partner…….

Big Maori policy issues Mr Key is doing a frantic runner from encompass local government, resource management, freshwater policy and conservation.

Through Treaty settlements negotiated by Mr Finlayson, Maori tribes have been granted numerous statutory co-governance roles shared with democratically elected local governments.

New Zealanders have not been warned or consulted by the Key government about this recipe for corruption, nepotism and conflict of interest. But they will suffer the impact from next year on as ever more Treaty settlements come into legal force.
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December 12, 2016 8:23am
- mikenmild
  
  I’m just wondering how thew NBR does not count as part of the ‘MSM’.
  
  16 7
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  December 12, 2016 8:29am
  - EAD
    
    er maybe because it has a circulation of 4,807 and is genuinley “Right Wing” in it’s outlook.
    
    7 19
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    December 12, 2016 8:34am
    - mikenmild
      
      Are they white nationalists though?
      
      13 12
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      December 12, 2016 8:38am
    - itstricky
      
      I thought it was all about getting the truth, not whether an outfit has particular partisanship or not.
      
      12 7
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      December 12, 2016 8:50am
    - itstricky
      
      I guess you’ve revealed a lot about your thought processes.
      
      10 7
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      December 12, 2016 8:52am
    - VicParking
      
      4807 thats more than are members of the Labour party and certainly more than those that belive what Ploddy Glower from planet Uranus has to say
      
      8 0
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      December 12, 2016 10:09am
      - holysheet
        
        You mean Ploddy is speaking out his uranus.
        
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        December 12, 2016 11:28am
- EAD
  
  Why I suspect we don’t see many articles like the above in the MSM, is that they criticise Key from the right, something his supporters get particularly hostile about – much easier to attack “Angry Andy” and the enemy known as “the left”/Labour whose policies Key continued with and in many ways took even more “left”…..
  
  Some of the comments below the article are doozies coming as they do from the right
  
  – Key kowtowed to the politicisation of identity – racial, cultural or gender – in order to keep up his ratings. This resulted in short-term PR gains for him, but a long-term undermining of public discourses for the country as a whole. The media have largely been complicit in this trend.
  
  – And it is the Key Government that has opened the borders to every loser from every other country to migrate here
  
  Half the recent migrants ( through Keys incompetence ) are low income Indian and Chinese migrants coming in under the guise of language training or education and then working for the hospitality industry or companies like Kathmandu where half their staff are low paid migrants seeking visa’s.
  
  The only legacy John Key has left is a mess
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:32am
  - stephieboy
    
    EAD, you seem to be coy about who wrote the paywalled article ?
    
    Let me try ,
    
    John Ansell, Kerry Bolten or Martin Doutre or some other ?
    
    3 17
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    December 12, 2016 9:25am
    - Kiwi Dave
      
      The important issue is not who wrote it, but whether it is accurate in its facts and realistic in it its predictions.
      
      I haven’t read this particular article, but EAD’s extract is consistent with recent government legislation which allocates decision-making powers to a mix of popular representatives and race-based representatives, effectively magnifying the powers of one ethnic group at the expense of democratic equality.
      
      Incentivizing one racial identity by power and money is unlikely to end well.
      
      Edit: I should also have said there is a massive lack of evidence that high immigration benefits anyone long term other than the immigrants.
      
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      December 12, 2016 10:22am
- PhilBest
  
  It would have been far better to just give every Maori individual some lump sum “in full and final settlement”. Creating a kind of Mafia with powers of veto and extortion over the entire economy for all time, was lunacy. This kind of thing is what makes the difference between successful nations and cultures, and unsuccessful ones.
  
  For example, in “Why Nations Fail”, the authors Acemoglu and Robinson say the main factor is “extractive institutions”. Whether it is King John’s mates prior to Magna Carta, or Carlos Slim with his Telcomms monopoly in Mexico today, the net effect is a wet blanket thrown across the economy. NZ is very stupid to do this to itself.
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:33am
  - Paulus
    
    Whatever you give to Maori will never be full and final settlement.
    
    18 1
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    December 12, 2016 10:18am
- starboard
  
  “which sets out a five-year plan for promoting law changes that would permanently privilege Maori descendants over all other New Zealanders.”
  
  There will be war first before that happens. A couple of pollys would be hoisted as well, thinking of one in particular who is giving NZ away at a great rate of knots.
  
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  December 12, 2016 11:36am
Monique Watson

As they say: 🙂 Behind every great man is a Gryphon:
Best of luck Bronagh! 🙂
12 3
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December 12, 2016 8:24am
sooty

National elect a new PM and deputy. What have we had in the last week is lots of leftie snowflakes whinging and winning about the election, msm all with there own ideas that amount to a cup of cold sick. Bernie Monk demanding Bill English go to Pike River and meet, maybe he should have done his job better in the first place. Do you see the National party voters rioting in the street, because their canditate did not get elected. Nobody does nasty like the left!
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December 12, 2016 8:34am
Captain Mainwaring

Looks like Phil Quin is setting Angry up for the biggest embarrasment of his life.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/87452730/andrew-little-would-be-mad-not-to-run-in-mt-albert
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December 12, 2016 8:34am
- All_on_Red
  
  Hmmm, nah, Little probably would win. Which is good news for National.
  
  6 2
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  December 12, 2016 8:44am
  - Paulus
    
    But Helen promised it to Jacinta who recently bought and expensive house in the electorate.
    Sorry Angry but not for you.
    You might lose it anyway.
    
    14 1
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    December 12, 2016 10:19am
- ross411
  
  Lol, since Stuff’s new comment guidelines, all the articles that have been linked there from here, have no comments enabled.
  
  12 0
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  December 12, 2016 9:02am
- Keeping Stock
  
  New Plymouth was New Zealand’s most marginal electorate in 2008. Andrew Little stood against backbencher Jonathan Young in 2011, and the seat became a safe National one. Little stood again in 2014, Young doubled his majority to almost 10,000, and Ne4w Plymouth is now a National fortess.
  
  Even though David Shearer had a majority of more than 10,000 in Mt Albert in 2014, his personal vote was double Labour’s Party Vote, which went to National by a margin of more than 4000. Little SHOULD be able to win Mt Albert, but what would happen if he didn’t.
  
  I predict Jacinda Ardern will stand there, although David Parker and Sue Moroney might also be looking to mitigate the risk of missing out on being elected from the List.
  
  Between the four of them though, they have contested electorates 16 times, for a record of 1-15. Parker is the only one of the four who has ever won a seat, winning Otago in 2002, but losing to Jacqui Dean in 2005. Moroney has the worst record; 0-7. Parker is 1-3 (and he went List-only in 2014), Ardern is 0-3 and Little himself 0-2. It doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in Labour’s ability to put up electable candidates.
  
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  December 12, 2016 9:07am
- VicParking
  
  Hes going to need an electorial seat as according to the rules he wont get in on the list unless he removes his last ball.
  
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  December 12, 2016 10:12am
Nostradamus

Nasska will be wondering what his town has done to incur the wrath of Brian Tamaki:

More than 100 people felt a “light” 3.7 quake west of Eketahuna at 2.16am which struck at 38km deep.

Come in Nasska?
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December 12, 2016 8:45am
- Jazz-Hands Mc Feels
  
  What’s your explanation for the epidemic of sexually transmitted diseases plaguing the homosexual demographic?
  
  How much taxpayer money has been thrown at “education/awareness programs” to “teach” homosexuals to stop pumping sperm into their back ends?
  
  But they still do it.
  
  Why, Nostradamus?
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:59am
  - stephieboy
    
    Jazz Hands , who do you get your advice from ? Brian Tamaki or Dr Sahib ?
    
    10 11
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    December 12, 2016 9:16am
- VicParking
  
  The local doctor undertook a prostrate exam
  
  7 1
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  December 12, 2016 10:15am
Jazz-Hands Mc Feels

A mosque arson in the USA has been peddled BIG TIME as a hate crime by Diversity Multiculturalists – “Islamophobia! Bigotry! White Supremacism!” blah blah blah.

Surprise, surprise, turns out it was a Colourful Mohammedan devotee who torched the mosque, lol. He attended the mosque for 5 years.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Houston-man-pleads-guilty-in-mosque-fire-10785703.php

Don’t expect the anti white Progressive Multiculturalists to give up though, they will just slither back under their collective rock watching with malice gleaming in their cold beady eyes till the next “hate crime” that fits their agenda turns up.
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December 12, 2016 8:51am
- ross411
  
  You’re sounding a bit rabid.
  
  10 4
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  December 12, 2016 9:03am
- Morrissey
  
  Loon.
  
  7 22
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  December 12, 2016 9:06am
  - Don the Kiwi
    
    Such self description is becoming.
    
    6 2
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    December 12, 2016 10:16am
    - Morrissey
      
      So you think his idiotic rambling is acceptable, do you? Oh sorry, it’s you Don. Of course you do.
      
      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Sadness_at_the_beach.jpg
      
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      December 12, 2016 4:36pm
Happychappy

Again i find it funny that two former leaders of Act and their MP have come out saying John Key will have no legacy. What has Jamie White and Don Brash achieved in politics to judge others when they were and will be the forgotten people in politics something that Key as Prime Minister and Leader of the National Party will not.
25 1
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December 12, 2016 8:57am
- Morrissey
  
  Jamie Whyte?
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LZyeFY5M0s
  
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  December 12, 2016 5:07pm
Nostradamus

A sample of comments at The Standard on the Pike River roadblock:

Rosemary McDonald

YES!

This is where the revolution begins…landowner taking coin, rejects coin in favour of righteousness.

Kia Kaha, Pike River Families.

Shona

Feeling proud to be a Kiwi for the first time in ages!

adam

national has 29 problems, and it has not said a dam thing close to truth on this matter for a very long time.

Sanctuary

Good to see people who won’t take being told what to do by a bunch of lying suits from downtown.

That was before Pete George bravely stepped in with a contrary view – then all hell broke loose!

gsays

Hi Pete g, that simply means you stand with the corporations and not with the families.

Tories love money, socialists love people.

That statement needs to be corrected: socialists love other people’s money.
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December 12, 2016 9:02am
- Rich Prick
  
  I accidentally clicked on your link, I wish I hadn’t. Why don’t they just sing a rousing rendition of The Internationale and be done with it?
  
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  December 12, 2016 9:10am
- fernglas
  
  I can’t imagine that Solid Energy would have run a road through that land without some sort of agreement with the landowner, whether there has been an easement registered or not. Interesting to see who trespasses whom.
  
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  December 12, 2016 9:19am
- Griff
  
  From the standard thread but I can not find Independent verification.
  
  Johnny Tucker 4
  11 December 2016 at 11:31 pm
  
  Interesting development.
  
  The papers released with the title show there is no easement over the land but that it is subject to the Public Works Act. That act specifically mentions roads, and gives any minister of the crown the ability to order removal of any obstruction that causes danger to traffic on the road.
  
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  December 12, 2016 9:33am
  - fernglas
    
    The Certificate of Title refers to the land being subject to a specific section of the Public Works Act. If you look up the relevant section in the Act, it seems to have little bearing on the issue, but that is way outside my area of expertise. I still would be surprised if they paid for a road to and from without any security of access. Maybe there is an unregistered easement?
    
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    December 12, 2016 9:37am
    - Nostradamus
      
      Fernglas:
      
      My uninformed opinion (land law isn’t my speciality) is that project finance for the Pike River mine would have been subject to detailed due diligence. It’d be extraordinary if land access issues weren’t considered.
      
      Having said that, though, I note the following statement in this article:
      
      A letter from van der Geest [landowner] to Monk showed there was no easement for the right of access in place for the land.
      
      I’m not sure whether to take this statement – particularly the loaded word “showed” – at face value. It’ll be interesting to see what rights, if any, Solid Energy asserts over the land.
      
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      December 12, 2016 10:02am
- Salacious Crumb
  
  So Venezuela must be a great example of a government’s love for the people?
  
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  December 12, 2016 11:39am
dime

gee the Russian govt is high tech.. in order to get the spirit cookers email, they sent an email.

he had to click through about 4 warnings of “do not click this link” in order for them to get his emails lol

man the left are sore losers.
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December 12, 2016 9:25am
Manolo

The intolerance of the Left, sore losers of the highest order:
http://nypost.com/2016/12/11/trumps-kids-now-face-rage-of-anti-trump-protesters/
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December 12, 2016 9:32am
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo, you need to a little bit more understanding in that Hillary did receive 2.7 million more than Donald of the popular vote !
  
  Donald will no doubt get the feeling of what is like to be minority in his own country.
  
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  December 12, 2016 9:49am
  - Don the Kiwi
    
    No stephie,
    Only in California and New York – the rest of the country loves The Donald, and when he’s finished in the US, the Big Apple and Cali will love him too. 🙂
    
    13 4
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    December 12, 2016 10:21am
    - stephieboy
      
      Don the Kiwi , wrong . True Trump won where it mattered but only by small margins and Clinton won by huge margins where it mattered less due to the idiosyncracies of the electoral college based on states won ( no matter how small the margins as was the case ).
      
      Thus it will be a fact of electoral history that Clinton won overall the popular vote , 2.7 million ( nearly as good as Obama in 2o12,)
      
      http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-election-final-20161209-story.html
      
      2 18
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      December 12, 2016 10:40am
      - stephen2d
        
        What you fail to realise (accidentally or on purpose) is that all states in the USA are very different: climate, mentalities, culture, food, etc. The current system is the fairest of all possible solution, which accords the number of electors proportional to the size of each state, but still does not allow one or two big states to overrule the majority of small states – if I am making sense.
        
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        December 12, 2016 11:26am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Stephieboy, but less than the popular vote margin for G.W. Bush in 2004 ?
        
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        December 12, 2016 4:29pm
      - double d
        
        Its like the comparison of “…we scored more tries so despite being behind on the scoreboard, we won ….”
        
        Well, actually the team with more points (Electoral College votes for slow learners – Stephie- looking at ya) wins
        
        If rules were changed and you won by getting more tries, maybe Trumps team would have scored tries instead of winning EC votes
        
        Stupid argument
        
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        December 12, 2016 9:53pm
Manolo

Trump’s tax plan. The power of simplification:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/08/chart-shows-exactly-how-trumps-tax-plan-could-affect-you.html

As you’ll see in the chart below, Trump’s tax plan is a simplification. He wants to reduce the number of individual tax bands from seven to three: 12, 25 and 33%.
12 0
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December 12, 2016 9:41am
- stephieboy
  
  The simplification smells like a flat tax which is a great way for the poor to pay for the rich,
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/22/flat-taxes-taxpayers-alliance
  
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  December 12, 2016 9:47am
  - Manolo
    
    No, Trump is not proposing a flat tax.
    What is your ideal tax scale, stephieboy? Give me some figures, please.
    
    14 0
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    December 12, 2016 9:50am
    - stephieboy
      
      Manolo, in the main the present one that progressive John Key has bequeathed to us and I’m sure Bill English will continue.
      
      Lessons there for Donald to learn ?
      
      Yours ?
      
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      December 12, 2016 9:54am
      - Manolo
        
        20% flat tax!
        
        Your love/admiration for both pinkos, John Key and Andrew Little, is interesting.
        
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        December 12, 2016 9:59am
      - stephieboy
        
        Manolo, I take it that 20% tax is on earned income ( wages and salaries and not unearned ( capital gains, interest and dividends ) ?
        
        If so how to you would make up for the shortfall that will undoubtedly occur . Run up deficits ?
        
        http://www.wordwiz72.com/flattax.html
        
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        December 12, 2016 10:11am
Manolo

Will the Dimocrats learn their lesson?
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-12-11/democrats-must-go-beyond-mere-opposition-to-trump
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December 12, 2016 9:54am
Kimbo

Half-baked piece in the NZ Herald musing why three other NZ PM’s have stood down on December 12.

• Sir Keith Holyoake became the country’s 26th Prime Minister in 1957. He had a brief term between September 20 and December 12.

• Sir Walter Nash took over as Prime Minister from December 12, 1957, and finished his term three years later, again on December 12.

• Sir Wallace Rowling, widely known as Bill, became New Zealand’s 30th Prime Minister on September 6, 1974. His last day in office was December 12, 1975.

The explanation? According to

Political scientist Dr Bryce Edwards, of the University of Otago, said there was no set date a Prime Minister had to step down, but that it was most likely because it was near the end of the year, when things needed to be sorted out.

“I think it’s not a coincidence that it is in December. But the fact that it’s the 12th is probably a coincidence.”

FFS, can’t these people – a paid journalist and a political scientist – do some research/join the dots? Up until the 1984 snap election, polling day in NZ for 50 years was usually the last Saturday in November. Add in the standard number of days after which the writs had to be delivered declaring the final result…and December 12 is one of the most likely dates that a PM whose party lost the election would, according to constitutional convention, visit the GG at Government House to tender his resignation. .

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11763682
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December 12, 2016 10:02am
- Nostradamus
  
  Kimbo:
  
  Any thoughts on when Andrew Little should resign, and what he should say, if he leads Labour to a loss next year?
  
  Some recent precedents:
  
  Phil Goff (2008–2011) – resigned after a dreadful election result. It “wasn’t our time this time … but our time will come again … we’re a bit bloodied but not defeated.”
  
  David Shearer (2011–2013)
  
  I have been privileged to lead the Labour team for the past 20 months and I’m proud of the gains we have made in that time. But we need to do more. So the time has come for me to hand over to a new leader who can take Labour through to 2014.
  
  David Cunliffe (2013–2014)
  
  I have today decided to resign the leadership of the Labour Party, effective from the end of caucus on Tuesday. The party has suffered an historic election loss and in resigning as leader I take responsibility for that.
  
  Andrew Little (2014–2017?)
  
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  December 12, 2016 10:34am
  - Kimbo
    
    He won’t be resigning. It’s the best-paying job he’s ever had – or likely ever will! 😉
    
    Instead, it will depend on the make-up of the Labour MPs who get elected – or don’t! – at the 2017 General Election that will determine if Grant Roberston
    
    1. triggers a leadership contest such that
    
    2. can beat the unions that tilted the balance last time, so that the candidate who only had four(!) first preference votes in his own caucus came through the pack.
    
    And now that Key is gone, it highlights how foolish they were to dump a centrist like David Shearer, who would in no way be out-shone by Bill English
    
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    December 12, 2016 10:52am
Padriv Ustoev

Religion of love and peace sorts out those dirty Christians in the lovely and peaceful Egypt.

Ho ho ho Infidels.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4021776/Blast-Egypts-main-Coptic-Christian-cathedral-kills-5.html
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December 12, 2016 10:20am
Manolo

Oh joy, the loony Greens will be spitting tacks:
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/rex-tillerson-exxon-mobil-expected-be-named-trump-s-secretary-n694371

Donald Trump is expected to nominate ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson as his secretary of state, two sources close to the transition process told NBC News on Saturday.
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December 12, 2016 10:21am
tom hunter

And now for something completely different, The University Arts Education in Modern Times:

Avant-garde art these days pointedly looks to speak truth to power, identifying a response to that power in a variety of evermore provocative ways. The pros do it, why not students?

At the University of Kansas some years ago, a female student in a performance art class “cut her breast and bled,” said her professor at the time, Roger Shimomura, who happened to know that the student had AIDS. The reason for her cutting herself was “nonspecific, political or feminist, I don’t know.” He considered stopping the performance “for safety sake” but did not because that “would reveal to her classmates her medical situation.”

At Vanderbilt University, one of professor Michael Aurbach’s assignments to students in his kinetic art class was to create a machine that would make a sound or keep moving or make marks on a piece of paper for at least 30 seconds. One female student created a machine with a pulley system that withdrew a tampon from her body (she was wearing no underwear) and then made marks on paper with the wet end. Again, political or feminist, I don’t know.

I wonder if Bob Jones would like to reconsider his opinion about the value of a Humanities degree and its ability to teach people to think?
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December 12, 2016 10:33am
- Padriv Ustoev
  
  LOL…. mental illness much?
  
  5 1
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  December 12, 2016 10:53am
- kowtow
  
  It’s growing.
  
  Ze or zir , to be or not to be gaoled?
  
  “Dr Peterson was especially frustrated with being asked to use alternative pronouns as requested by trans students or staff, like the singular ‘they’ or ‘ze’ and ‘zir’, used by some as alternatives to ‘she’ or ‘he’.
  In his opposition, he set off a political and cultural firestorm that shows no signs of abating.”
  
  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37875695
  
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  December 12, 2016 12:21pm
- Morrissey
  
  So what do you think of THIS moronic piece of performance art?…
  
  https://fmacskasy.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/shane-ardern-tractor-parliament-steps-september-2003.jpeg
  
  1 2
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  December 12, 2016 8:44pm
Jack5

The Hooerald launches another attack on the nation’s sovereign fund – the Super Fund.

This time it’s because it might have money in firms that could deliver nuclear weapons.

Next it will be targeting investments in those who makes screws – in case any of these go into rockets; or detergent, in case these are used to scrub missile launchers. What about car makers because some of them make military trucks? Everything electronic because nuclear missiles use sophisticated miniature circuits? How soon will the vegans want the fund to shun investing in meat processors?

Our vocal minorities – pacifists, environmentalists, health police … are more interested in their obsessions than in allowing the Super Fund to grow for the benefit of rising generations of New Zealanders.

Shame on the Hooerald for taking little if any interest in the strategy and composition of the Super Fund while trying to put it in the strait-jacket put forward by these minorities.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11764510
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December 12, 2016 11:14am
- Padriv Ustoev
  
  Based on that logic we should not be investing in Toyota. Links to terrorism and all.
  
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  December 12, 2016 11:42am
cha

Six months and they’re ba-ack!.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/11/islamic-state-retakes-palmyra-syria
7 1
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December 12, 2016 11:21am
- tom hunter
  
  Great. And how the fuck did that happen on the watch of those mighty warriors, Assad and Putin?
  
  I see the report mentions 60 Russian airstrikes overnight before IS re-took the city. Again, WTF is going on there that the Syrian Army, with that sort of backing, can’t take these guys out, especially when the Turks, the Kurds, the Iraqis and the Yanks appear to have IS’s balls in a vice everywhere else.
  
  Is the Syrian-Russian-Iranian coalition only able to wage war by pushing out/killing the civilian support of IS, as in Aleppo?
  
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  December 12, 2016 11:50am
  - mikenmild
    
    ‘It became necessary to destroy the town to save it’
    
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    December 12, 2016 12:20pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Oh if things were more simple like nuking or “bombing the shit out of them” ?
      
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      December 12, 2016 1:13pm
  - cha
    
    Is the Syrian-Russian-Iranian coalition only able to wage war by pushing out/killing the civilian support of IS, as in Aleppo?
    
    Gotta shore up that Mediterranean beachhead.
    
    ISIL fighters celebrating their capture of Palmyra found this checkpoint sign – in four languages: Russian, Arabic, Farsi, and English. pic.twitter.com/i9N0bjelFS— Tobias Schneider (@tobiaschneider) December 11, 2016
    
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    December 12, 2016 12:34pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Don’t worry, they’re only JV grade (according to Obama).
  
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  December 12, 2016 4:31pm
- SPC
  
  To be fair, the Russians, Hizbollah and the Iranians are not there to fight IS, but to secure the regime in Damascus. The Syrian army is itself on its last legs and heavily dependent on its allies for success on the ground.
  
  They are leaving it to others to defeat IS (al Qaeda in Iraq based in Syria) – just as the rest are leaving it to them to defeat al Qaeda in Syria, al Nusra.
  
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  December 12, 2016 4:59pm
Manolo

New levels of barbarism achieved by followers of the religion of peace:
https://apnews.com/a495e2250c7549e0b2ef0dc9742702a4/2-girl-suicide-bombers-die-in-blasts-near-market-in-Nigeria?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

Two girl suicide bombers died when they exploded Sunday in a crowded area near a market in Nigeria’s northeastern city of Maiduguri, injuring 17 people, rescue officials said.

One bomber appeared no older than 7 and the second about 8 years old, said Abdulkadir Jabo, a civilian self-defense fighter who stopped them from going into the market. “I asked the older girl where she was going but she could not speak Hausa or Kanuri … and appeared very unsettled, so I turned her back,” he told AP.
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December 12, 2016 11:26am
starboard

Nothing new Manolo..stiffybot will be along shortly to blow hot air..last seen down at St Lukes eyeing young muslim girls. Filthy pervert.
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December 12, 2016 11:44am
- stephieboy
  
  starboard , are you alluding to the fact you’re possibly closeted gay and only attracted to male” eye candy ” ?
  
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  December 12, 2016 1:10pm
  - starboard
    
    Back from St Lukes so early bott…nothing to see down there at Starbucks? I hope you don’t approach the youngsters.
    
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    December 12, 2016 1:15pm
    - stephieboy
      
      starboard, answer my question please !
      
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      December 12, 2016 1:17pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Stephieboy:
        
        Can we take it from your persistent line of questions that you think you’re manly enough for Starboard? 🙂
        
        13 2
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        December 12, 2016 1:24pm
      - stigie
        
        Well, Peter was manly enough for Helen ..?
        
        9 2
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        December 12, 2016 2:06pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Stigie:
        
        Was it the beard that made him manly, or something else?
        
        9 1
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        December 12, 2016 2:10pm
      - starboard
        
        oh..sorry steffy,
        The answer is…no.
        
        Now, where were you between the hours of 12 and 1 ?
        
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        December 12, 2016 2:39pm
      - starboard
        
        Dont you mean Hulun was manly enough for Peter ?
        
        11 2
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        December 12, 2016 2:41pm
      - stigie
        
        An Auckland man by the name of Ian Scott was manly enough for Peter so it seems Starboard..?
        
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10402703
        
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        December 12, 2016 3:02pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        That’s an interesting article, Stigie:
        
        The man who gave a magazine images of Prime Minister Helen Clark’s husband being embraced by a man on election night says his main motivation was the election spending issue. But Chuck Bird said today that he also wanted to stop Labour from “blackmailing political parties”.
        
        I’m not sure why Chuck thought it was necessary to provide the photos to Ian Wishart. I seem to recall the man-hug was a televised event on election night?
        
        And one thing led to another:
        
        Wishart says he is not suggesting anything about Davis, but is following up an alleged incident overseas. He says his investigation is being stonewalled by the Prime Minister’s office so he is having to go the long hard way to complete it.
        
        The “long hard way” – that’s a double entendre right there!
        
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        December 12, 2016 3:16pm
      - stigie
        
        The alleged incident overseas Nostra, we could safely ask Dad for that information, he seems fairly well up on it !~
        
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        December 12, 2016 3:22pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      @Nostradamus
      
      Are you a male, female or not sure?
      
      Do you think it manly to attack someone who has the balls to use his real name?
      
      Why will you not use not use your real full name?
      
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      December 12, 2016 9:01pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Chuck:
        
        Are you a male, female or not sure?
        
        Grow up Chuck – nothing in my comment (which was about an article that Stigie linked to) attacked you personally.
        
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        December 12, 2016 9:43pm
Manolo

Does he have a chance to lead the Dutch next year?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/dutch-populist-leader-wilders-rises-polls-conviction-144358621.html

The party of populist anti-Islam Dutch MP Geert Wilders has risen strongly in the polls since the lawmaker was tried and convicted of discrimination, according to a survey published Sunday.
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December 12, 2016 12:23pm
- GoVege
  
  Good.
  That trial was a farce and the people would see that.
  They better double his bodyguard though.
  
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  December 12, 2016 7:35pm
wiseowl

English in his exciting speech now he is almost PM, mentions iwi separately, going to a womens conference and talks of immigration .
Obviously oblivious of what is happening out there beyond the beehive.
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December 12, 2016 12:42pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Hope the big thunder and hail storm that hit Wellington as English was making his first speech as PM wasn’t trying to tell us anything.
  
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  December 12, 2016 12:58pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Captain Mainwaring:
    
    Brian Tamaki isn’t pleased that Bill English (in his first speech as prime minister) said he’d vote differently for gay marriage if it came up for vote now. And so Angry Brian summoned the weather gods…
    
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    December 12, 2016 1:28pm
Nostradamus

An interesting media statement on the Electoral Commission website:

On 5 December 2016, the Electoral Commission referred an incident to Police in response to a complaint about a demonstration in the electorate on the day of the Mt Roskill By-election.

It is an offence under section 197 of the Electoral Act 1993 to, on election day, hold or take part in a demonstration or procession or to make statements using a loudhailer having direct or indirect reference to the poll, or to exhibit a statement likely to influence any elector as to how they should vote.

As this matter is now with the Police, the Electoral Commission will not be commenting further.

The mind boggles with endless possibilities…
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December 12, 2016 2:04pm
- SteveRemmington
  
  Was just a bunch of soap dodgers protesting outside the Nat candidates office.
  
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  December 12, 2016 3:50pm
PhilP

I hear a lot about what is John Key’s legacy or more particularly from the left what isn’t his legacy.
It should be noted that in 2008 he asked the Maori Party to be part of his Govt. even though he did not need their support. He showed right there that his Govt. was to be an all inclusive one.
In my mind though his greatest legacies will be his stewardship through the GFC, Chch earthquakes, Pike River, Rena grounding and the recent Kaikoura earthquakes. Also it will be the National Cycle Trails. The Left of politics absolutely pilloried him for that policy in 2008/2009 but look now? What a brilliant policy that has turned out to be. All these Cycleways over NZ giving our overseas tourists and New Zealanders a great and unique experience.
The left can grizzle and moan all they like about John Key’s contribution, or in their eyes the lack of contribution, but they should remember these things that I have mentioned above.
New Zealand will be that much poorer for not having him at the helm but I do wish Bill and Paula all the very best. Bring on 2017.
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December 12, 2016 2:06pm
- PhilP
  
  I should have mentioned his Statesmanship on the world stage, he was, and still is, regarded extremely highly by leaders overseas.
  
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  December 12, 2016 2:30pm
- GoVege
  
  Key asked the Maori Party to join them to be “inclusive”!
  That’s a joke, it was part of the Nats plan to get Maori voters away from Labour.
  All it did was give more money and airtime to idiots promoting a return to the mythical Maori paradise where “every child is a gift from God”.
  
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  December 12, 2016 7:31pm
Nostradamus

It’s electoral return season and the spotlight is on Phil Goff.

The electoral returns cover the three months up to polling day. The spending limit for mayoral candidates was $621,504.

Remember that figure – $621,504.

Goff’s returns shows he raised $238,056 in donations, office space, audio visual and artwork services valued above $1500 and $366,115 in proceeds from fundraising auctions. Donations of less than $1500 took total fundraising to more than $700,000, [his campaign manager David Lewis] said.

So, on the face of it, Goff raised more than he was allowed to spend. But here’s where things become interesting. Did Goff disclose everything that he was required to?

Lewis said candidates declare donations of more than $1500. The test for items sold at auctions is whether you sell things a “reasonable market value”.

“If you hold a clearly competitive auction, as we did, the sale price is a fair market value, and the monies received is for the sale of goods. It is not a donation. There is nothing in there that suggests we have done anything other than stick to the rules,” Lewis said.

If I’m reading that correctly, then Lewis seems to be suggesting that money raised in a “clearly competitive auction” isn’t disclosable, based on a distinction between a “sale price” and a “donation”. Lewis worked with Len Brown for many years, so I suspect he’s correct, even though his interpretation sounds dodgy. Does anyone know what the rules actually say?
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December 12, 2016 2:25pm
- fernglas
  
  Surely the goods themselves are the donation, and the fair market price realised at auction is their valuation for the purposes of the declaration?
  
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  December 12, 2016 4:12pm
RF

God… I’m proud to be a kiwi. Just watched John Keys farewell speech and then him walking down the front steps of parliament to his vehicle. I have never seen such a sight as there were 100s of well wishers there giving him a standing ovation. What a rock star !!!!

He will be missed
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December 12, 2016 2:29pm
- SteveRemmington
  
  I also clapped when Helen left Parliament, albeit for different reasons.
  
  But your totally correct RF. He is a bloody political legend.
  
  Good on ya John!
  
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  December 12, 2016 3:48pm
Manolo

Useful and dangerous idiot:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4019676/Teacher-created-pro-refugee-T-shirts-disciplined-activist-behaviour-including-accused-brainwashing-students.html

The leader of the Teachers for Refugees movement has had her activist behaviour questioned twice before.

Melbourne school teacher Lucy Honan who is the co-founder of the group has also been accused of ‘brainwashing’ students by concerned parents.
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December 12, 2016 2:36pm
- Morrissey
  
  “Concerned parents” in this case, of course, being code for Pauline Hanson supporters and other such racists.
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:19pm
New Zealand Last

As for his own personal views as one of National’s more social conservatives English was equally forthright. Given the chance again, he would vote differently on gay marriage. He no longer viewed it as an attack on anyone’s marriage.

Would love to know what the commenters here on Kiwiblog last week celebrating and worshipping English as a Catholic PM think of his.
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December 12, 2016 3:37pm
- SPC
  
  As someone who supported the change, it would appear this particular Catholic is presenting themselve as guided by faith until this is superceded by real world evidence – such as we are no worse off if others have their rights, we are all better off. The marginalised live healthier lives once allowed their dignity. And no one is compromised, where this is merely acceptance of consent as a principle in adult relationships.
  
  It does however touch on the value of life, pro life behaviour in sexuality (is sexuality part of a healthy relationship life or merely a function to procreate life) – euthenasia (does respect for life mean sustaining it for as a long as possible or mean a respect for the well being of the person) and then there is abortion. If one educates that sexuality is part of a healthy relationship life (rather than abstinence until marrige for procreating children) with associated reponsible behaviour (making contraception available) this reduces unwanted pregnancies/demand for abortion.
  
  The new PM’s focus is more on the wider area of investment for a better future – such as safer families and or training/employment opportunity for young people (no need to resort to escape via DPB welfare), and maybe/hopefully support for families by paying non working partner dole. This will protect marriages (if a person loses their job they cannot pay the mortgage on one income and this financial pressure can divide families) and reduce numbers on the DPB (make it more attractive to partner up/re-partner). That reduces the pressure on housing supply that comes from relationship failure.
  
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  December 12, 2016 4:32pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  I just wonder how many dead rats English had to swollow to say that about gay marriage. Not a good sign, in my opinion.
  
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  December 12, 2016 6:50pm
Fletch

Just like Labour and Helen.

Joe Biden admits that the Democrat party now has “no single leader”.

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/12/11/sotu-biden-on-dem-party-there-is-no-single-leader.cnn

http://twitchy.com/jacobb-38/2016/12/11/what-joe-biden-just-said-about-the-state-of-the-democratic-party-is-a-staggering-indictment-of-his-boss/
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December 12, 2016 3:58pm
SPC

In Oz they make partner payments to the extra spouses of Moslems rather than the DPB, as this is cheaper.

They should adopt our sytem of requiring a work test if they have a child after already receiving support.
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December 12, 2016 4:00pm
- KevinH
  
  Pauline Hansen has been critical of Centrelink Australia for paying benefits to multiple wives of Muslim husbands.Hansen accuses Centrelink of promoting polygamous marriages.
  
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  December 12, 2016 4:52pm
  - GoVege
    
    We have been paying the DPB to extra wives of good Christian church-going men in this country for decades.
    I know one Catholic man with 14 kids to various women, and that’s just the ones I know about.
    
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    December 12, 2016 7:45pm
    - nasska
      
      So long as the issue are brought up to be good little Catholics the church wouldn’t be greatly concerned.
      
      It’s a numbers game.
      
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      December 12, 2016 7:56pm
      - GoVege
        
        I’m sure you are right nasska.
        I guess that 7th commandment is not important.
        But this whole “going forth and multiplying” b/s surely needs an update?
        
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        December 12, 2016 8:55pm
Fletch

Here’s your “genderqueer” spokesperson…

http://boingboing.net/2016/12/10/genderqueer-artist-wears-a-mes.html
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December 12, 2016 4:10pm
- Don the Kiwi
  
  What a disgusting piece of shit.
  
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  December 12, 2016 5:52pm
cha

Probably the most epic tweetstorm, ever.

Do read the whole thing.

<THREAD> I’m now hearing this meme that says Obama, Clinton, et al. are doing nothing, just gave up.Guys. It’s time for some game theory.— Eric Garland (@ericgarland) December 11, 2016

https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/808045818024497157
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December 12, 2016 5:11pm
- Reid
  
  That’s completely mental on so many levels cha.
  
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  December 12, 2016 7:08pm
Pateke

Catherine Delahunty using a ten year old boys rape at a school camp to get some oxygen in media. Get some class Katey! Think about what you said and why you said it. will the Greens stop at nothing to get air time?
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December 12, 2016 5:14pm
- cha
  
  Think about what you said and why you said it.
  
  Yes, heaven forbid anyone talks about a sexual assault on a child because one shouldn’t talk about sexual assaults on children.
  
  Idiot.
  /
  
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  December 12, 2016 5:23pm
- Gabby
  
  The abusers thrive on silence you know. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?
  
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  December 12, 2016 9:36pm
dad4justice

Nobody cares about child abuse in New Zealand the government couldn’t give a stuff about the sad indictment.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/68936884/New-Zealands-shocking-child-abuse-statistics
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December 12, 2016 5:32pm
- stigie
  
  Do you think Bill English will do a better job and give a stuff Dad..?
  
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  December 12, 2016 6:14pm
  - dad4justice
    
    No
    
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    December 12, 2016 6:48pm
  - Reid
    
    Yeah I do, to both of those stigie. I don’t think he’ll necessarily be more popular than Key, but he’ll do a better job of really using the role that way it should be used, as opposed to putting it in a glass case so it didn’t get damaged which was Key’s approach.
    
    I also think English’ heart is more intact than Key’s. Key puts on a good show, that’s his schtick, but as for real rubber on the road genuine compassion, I’d go for English over Key any day.
    
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    December 12, 2016 7:15pm
- nasska
  
  Genuine question Dad. Do you reckon child abuse is more prevalent than it was say fifty years ago?
  
  Thing is that my memories of violence & abuse inflicted on children suggest that things are improving, albeit slowly. Small town NZ in the fifties was a place where men got unbelievably pissed & bashed the shit out of their wives who in turn took it out on the kids. On occasions Dad would leave Mum out of it & lay into the kids himself. It was intergenerational, interracial & rife across all the Godbothering sects plus the atheists of the time.
  
  If you get a chance try reading “In Endless Fear”, a true story by Colin Crump.
  
  That was the reality for too many people of our generation & attitudes take time to change.
  
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  December 12, 2016 6:31pm
  - nasska
    
    An excerpt:
    
    …..”‘He had a length of milking machine hose in his hand and I watched in terror as once more he laid into my brother Barry with a merciless thrashing that just went on and on. Barry just lying there, as he always did, and taking it all. Then he turned on me – they were really ferocious blows. The weapon he had chosen was, without doubt, the worst we had ever endured.”…..
    
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    December 12, 2016 6:43pm
  - dad4justice
    
    Read that book by Crump and I think child abuse is on the increase.
    
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    December 12, 2016 6:47pm
    - nasska
      
      Obviously I disagree Dad but I accept that you genuinely hold that view.
      
      Could you expand on why you do?
      
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      December 12, 2016 6:51pm
      - dad4justice
        
        More peadophiles are populating our prisons and infanticide is rapidly rising . What savage killed the Kahui Twins?
        
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        December 12, 2016 6:58pm
      - nasska
        
        The increase in jailed paedophiles may be because more of them are being prosecuted. In the 50s people suspected that kids were being abused but there wasn’t a great deal of interest shown by authorities. Instead summary justice was the norm & I concede that it was probably more effective.
        
        Infanticide is linked to the lower socio groups who think that live in boyfriends are acceptable replacements for fathers so you may have a point there.
        
        But torture in the name of discipline is gradually disappearing.
        
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        December 12, 2016 7:14pm
Nookin

Sad to see Paul Henry’s mum, Olive, pass away today. Condolences to the Henry family. She was a character and a half.
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December 12, 2016 6:25pm
- PhilP
  
  The C*** that down-ticked Nookin’s and Chuck Bird’s comments is worse than a useless piece of shite! Show some compassion and respect!
  
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  December 12, 2016 9:09pm
Chuck Bird

I just heard the news of Olive Henry passing. Whatever anyone thinks of Paul. He is a good caring son and a good father. RIP Olive.
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December 12, 2016 6:26pm
SPC

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/sport/other/a-divisive-bout-best-left-to-the-experts/ar-AAlrlLS?li=BBqdhxG
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December 12, 2016 6:46pm
SPC

Nixon, China card vs Russia. Trump, Russia card vs China?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38282825
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December 12, 2016 7:22pm
SPC

Super policy.

Key’s strategy was to see off Peters – govern without need for his support by placating the boomer vote on super.

Any National change to their super policy pre 2017 simply brings NZF into government – the votes lost mean they cannot govern without Peters. And he vetoes the super change. Pointless. Which was Key’s genius – promise no change and keep NZF out. Wait till Peters retires in 2020.

A case of Key timing the political market as he has other markets in his career.
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December 12, 2016 7:36pm
- Reid
  
  Key’s strategy was to see off Peters – govern without need for his support by placating the boomer vote on super.
  
  Yes. My problem with this and most everything else he did SPC is that most see nothing wrong with things like that. They seem for some reason to think: “it’s smart. It’s clever politics.”
  
  What about the taxpayer? You know, the people who pay for Key not taking on the baby boomers over super, for instance. Us. What about us?
  
  That’s what people who think he’s clever and he’s smart don’t seem to include in their calculation, which is extraordinary when you think about it, isn’t it.
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:04pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  English will have enough sense to make the right decision on Super. He hasn’t said that there will necessarily be a change to Key’s policy.
  Given that Labour (after a U-turn) and NZF now support keeping it at 65, Bill needs to remind the electorate that if it’s going to remain at 65 the only Government with a chance of having a sufficiently strong economy to keep it at 65 will be one that doesn’t include Labour or NZF.
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:22pm
rightoverlabour

I suppose its not quite the kiwi thing to order one or two of these for Christmas from ebay?

http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2016/12/10/six-great-pocket-guns-christmas-wish-list/

Ahh for a 2nd Ammendment….
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December 12, 2016 8:36pm
- Morrissey
  
  Big brave fellow you are, with a gun in your mitts, I’ll bet you are!
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:40pm
  - nasska
    
    Never figured out why socialists are so anti people being allowed to carry hand guns for self defence.
    
    They claim to stand for equality but want to continue banning the one tool that puts a 90 year old woman on equal footing with a rapist or a thug
    
    Very strange.
    
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    December 12, 2016 9:00pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Heavily armed 90-year-olds does not seem like a particularly sensible thing to me. Next you’ll want them to be driving cars too!
      
      7 4
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      December 12, 2016 9:03pm
      - nasska
        
        If we can tolerate the risk of senior citizens mowing down innocent pedestrians in a mall car park arming them with 22gauge handguns is surely small beer.
        
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        December 12, 2016 9:08pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Seeing that they will knock themselves off with their guns at a rate of about 100 per thug, maybe the taxpayers’ savings in health, super and rest-home care would make it a worthwhile proposition.
        
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        December 12, 2016 9:11pm
      - nasska
        
        You are a true acolyte of the dark side Mike. 🙂
        
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        December 12, 2016 9:17pm
- mikenmild
  
  We don’t need cumbersome constitutional amendments as they do in the US of A. All you gun nuts need to do is convince 61 MPs that more guns would be great and, Hey Presto!, guns galore.
  
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  December 12, 2016 8:56pm
starboard

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/87496795/convicted-childkiller-steven-williams-reportedly-stabs-fellow-inmate.

This is good. Scum stabbing scum in prison. Fantastic.
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December 12, 2016 9:08pm
- Nostradamus
  
  I wouldn’t get too excited, Starboard:
  
  The man serving a life sentence for the murder of Featherston child Coral-Ellen Burrows in a P-fuelled rage has reportedly tried to kill again. A source inside Auckland’s Paremoremo Prison told MediaWorks that Steven Williams stabbed fellow inmate Nikki Roper with a piece of glass and a broom handle on Sunday.
  …
  The Auckland District Health Board has said Roper is in a stable condition.
  
  Roper will make a full recovery. But, gee, that photo of Coral-Ellen Burrows tugged my heart strings. No child deserves to die in the violent manner she did.
  
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  December 12, 2016 9:17pm
starboard

I know. Just maggots the pair of ’em. But I do enjoy reading when one has been assaulted or worse. I hope they suffer every single minute of every single day that they are incarcerated.
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December 12, 2016 9:22pm
- starboard
  
  There’s a crim hugger near..bet its mm.
  
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  December 12, 2016 9:34pm
  - Awww C-mon
    
    Description sounds more like his mum… especially after your dodgy trip to the GC
    
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    December 12, 2016 9:54pm
starboard

Most impressed with the GC AC, very cruisy laid back place..could almost retire there but $$ compared to Thailand dont compare.
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December 12, 2016 11:15pm
Viking2

The research drew a causal link between this cost and childhood disadvantage. Again, no surprises. The crucial part was that they found that neurological tests done when participants were three years old could predict with “reasonable accuracy” who would grow up to be part of the 22 per cent who were responsible for, at a glance, 81 per cent of criminal convictions, 78 per cent of prescriptions filled and 66 per cent of benefits paid. This burdensome few scored lower on verbal comprehension, language development, motor skills and behavioural tests as pre-schoolers.

“The strong connections uncovered in this study between brain health and economically burdensome outcomes encourage nations to invest in their so-called grey-matter infrastructure,” researchers said.

The problem in New Zealand, and elsewhere, has been that “grey-matter infrastructure” is a hard sell. “Tough on crime” is much easier and gets you votes.

Encouragingly, the country’s new top political pairing have form in shunning this sort of short-termism. Incoming Prime Minister Bill English has led a wholesale reform of the public service from the finance portfolio, based in part on smarter spending through data analytics. Predictive risk modelling has already been proffered as a way to identify and help vulnerable children and stop abuse and welfare dependency turning into criminality. It wasn’t always popular – a plan to apply modelling to newborns was particularly controversial – but the change mantra has stuck. After English, its biggest champion has been his new deputy, Paula Bennett, a veteran of a host of social services portfolios.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/87485762/editorial-how-the-numbercrunchers-could-hold-the-key-to-our-biggest-social-ills

Yey, the sooner we get to grips with this the better.
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December 13, 2016 6:19am
- mikenmild
  
  ‘wholesale reform’
  Hasn’t happened.
  
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  December 13, 2016 6:34am
Manolo

A terrible loser:
http://nypost.com/2016/12/12/congressman-begs-electoral-college-voters-to-block-trump/

A Democratic lawmaker is desperately lobbying the Electoral College to shun Donald Trump, and vote for Hillary Clinton — even though he conceded Monday that the Republican won the election “fair and square.”
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December 13, 2016 6:35am

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