General Debate 21 November 2016

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Manolo

The civilised world is fighting barbarians like this:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/isis-leader-reveals-how-feels-9288632

Rachid Kassim, 29, has been linked to a string of terror attacks in Europe including the murder of a policeman and his partner near Paris and a Catholic priest near Normandy.

Asked about the killing he said: “To behead an animal, it would be difficult, with enemies of Allah, it is a pleasure.”
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November 21, 2016 8:02am
- EAD
  
  Let me rephrase that for you Manolo
  
  The civilised world is ~~fighting~~ letting in barbarians like this
  
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/85681951/Foreign-fighters-in-the-Middle-East-could-return-to-New-Zealand-as-Islamic-State-crumbles-John-Key
  
  If you object to this or even discuss immigrants as anything but poor, downtrodden, helpless beings, you are a far right, bigoted, deplorable Nazi
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:16am
  - mikenmild
    
    Classic false dichotomy.
    For example, I believe we are importing too many immigrants, but unlike EAD, I am not a Nazi.
    
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    November 21, 2016 8:25am
    - Jack5
      
      Milky, I think that in this case your comment proves EAD’s point in his final paragraph at 8.16.
      
      Yes, we know EAD’s views are pretty far to the right, but that doesn’t mean he’s invariably wrong about everything.
      
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      November 21, 2016 9:27am
      - mikenmild
        
        ‘pretty far to the right’? He’s a Nazi, pal.
        
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        November 21, 2016 11:48am
      - SPC
        
        So Nazis have allies in opposing immigration, and do they know it – they play on it as much as possible.
        
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        November 21, 2016 4:54pm
- Longknives
  
  Vote Labour/Greens at the next Election and animals like Kassim will be swarming into New Zealand ‘No Questions Asked’..
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:49am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  because Allah is too weak to sort his own enemies out?
  
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  November 21, 2016 4:35pm
cmm

Merkel is seeking her fourth term: http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/86671637/report-german-chancellor-angela-merkels-to-seek-fourth-term

Is there a special self-delusion echo chamber these lefties put their heads into?

She’s surely going to get a whipping.
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November 21, 2016 8:03am
Pete George

Geoff Miller and Mark Blackham suggest in an NBR article that when John Key leaves Parliament (he has indicated he will stand again next year) the inadequacies of Parliament will become clearer to voters and leave it more exposed to a Trump like reaction.

Key is insulating New Zealand from growing discontent around the world with status democratic systems.

It could also be argued that democracy and government in New Zealand isn’t in as dire a situation as in the UK or the US, where voters have revolted against the same old.

Mr Key is our own populist politician. Like Trump, he is wealthy and not a career politician.

Mr Key’s inherent anti-political nature frequently motivates him to behave in ways which we would not previously have expected from a prime minister.

In some cases, such as in the ponytail affair, MrKey has gone too far and ended up apologising for his actions. But generally, his non-conventional style and willingness to make fun of himself have helped him to stay astonishingly popular – despite being eight years into the top job.

Much to the annoyance and frustration of his opponents and especially of left wing activists.

When Mr Key leaves, his populist touch will go with him, exposing the public to a parliament awash with careerist politicians who play it safe, deal in slogans and spin and have no way to forge a genuine bond with voters as Key has done.

The question for many of New Zealand’s MPs ahead of the 2017 election is whether they will heed the lessons of 2016’s Brexit and Trump political earthquakes.

If politicians dish up election campaigns that keep to the stale and uninspiring establishment recipe, they will guarantee and intensify voter backlash.

With Key still in play this may not happen directly in next year’s election, it may still come down to the economy and the Government’s handling of it versus the alternative that looks like it will need to be Labour+Greens+NZ First. Many voters are scared by Labour+Greens let alone the triumverate.

But if National don’t start to show that they recognise real problems with the current way of doing democracy and make genuine and significant moves to address it they could be setting themselves up for a major fall when Key steps down.

Key’s departure may well leave new Zealand exposed to a voters’ revolt.
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November 21, 2016 8:07am
- Manolo
  
  Welcome back, P.G.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:11am
- cmm
  
  I don’t think it is quite as easy for NZ politicians to get completely disconnected from the citizenry like it is in USA.
  
  In USA they can live their whole life in Washington DC without ever having to encounter the rabble.
  
  Here it is a bit different, particularly because of our small population. MPs have to live in real communities. They can’t cut themselves off the same way. When I lived in Amy Adam’s electorate I encountered her a few times. She helped out at community working bees etc getting muddy like everyone else.
  
  Sure there are some thing we could do like reduce the number of MPs – especially list MPs – and such, but there’s not quite the divide between the ruling class and the people like there is in, say, USA or UK.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:18am
- MT_Tinman
  
  You appear to think democracy is a bad thing.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:19am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    There is a rich vein within the alt right that is distinctly anti – democratic , white supremacist and bigoted as Steve Bannon and his Breitbart exemplifies .
    
    Just how deep this view runs here is open question confined as it to some on KB ,especially Whale Oil and the lunacy of Comrade Rebaiter .
    
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    November 21, 2016 9:10am
    - Manolo
      
      Talking about supremacists: what about the mullahs and imams that run your religion?
      
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      November 21, 2016 9:14am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Yes, there is. There is also a deep vein within the extreme and indeed the not-so-extreme Left that is anti-democratic, bigoted and intolerant of the slightest deviation from today’s version of the accepted view. So?
      
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      November 21, 2016 9:19am
    - Keeping Stock
      
      What about the “Not my President” Left in the USA Stephie? They certainly don’t seem to accepting of the democratic outcome of their election.
      
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      November 21, 2016 1:14pm
- David Garrett
  
  PG: Interesting…and I probably agree with it. I noted that some of the times I got in hot water – obviously not including the last one – I got a dressing down from the leader and the Chief of Staff…but dozens of e-mails and texts from people I didn’t know saying “well done that man”. I am thinking particularly of my not standing for Clark when her new job was announced, and my comments on offering inducements to child abusers to get sterilized.
  
  But who could lead such a “Trumpist” rebellion here? Surely not Peters…Father Time alone will surely put him out of the game…but then I guess Trump is 70…
  
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  November 21, 2016 9:14am
  - holysheet
    
    yeh but the difference is winstonfirst is a drunken dwarf.
    
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    November 21, 2016 3:17pm
Paulus

How disappointed we are to see the puerile behaviour of a group of so called Actors who went out of their way to try and humiliate the Vice President Elect at a theatre performance.

It is sad to see such behaviour from adults as an example of how you behave.

Had i or my siblings behaved in a similar manner there would have been consequences, likewise our children.

No wonder the US has a problem when people like these behave in such a disgraceful manner.

Not only have they let themselves down and have reduced themselves to a common low manner, but they have disgraced their once great Country.
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November 21, 2016 8:07am
- Disaster Area
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Again I ask, what was it in the statement that ‘went out of their way to try and humiliate the Vice President Elect’?
  There was no swearing, no abusive terminology, it wasn’t shouted or screamed at him.
  As I said yesterday, if a bunch of Broadway actors asking him to ‘uphold the American values and to work on behalf of all of us’ is humiliating then I think we need to re-define what humiliating means.
  Its almost as if the actors think that they have a Government enshrined right to say what they think.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:25am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Your audience are your guests, and you hold all the rhetorical cards being up on stage and with the microphones. You hector an individual member of your audience.
    
    Sheer arrogance and entitlement.
    
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    November 21, 2016 10:15am
  - tom hunter
    
    “We, sir — we — are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights,” he said. “We truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and to work on behalf all of us.”
    
    And I’ll make the same points again as yesterday.
    
    First, how arrogant to think that you’re the ones who are diverse? Simply a wash-and-repeat version of why the Democrats lost this US election. What are the odds that anybody up on that stage is a cultural or even a financial conservative? Pro-life? Anti gay-marriage? Pro low income tax rates?Anything?
    
    Second, it’s a case of the Left swallowing its own bullshit, most notably that Pence believes in “conversion therapy” for gays. Perhaps Pence is not actually as “frightening” as they imagine.
    
    Third, the assumption is that Trump and Pence are such awful fucking people that they need this appeal from their moral and ethical superiors in order to do the right thing. You do realise that Trump was pro gay-marriage back in the late 1990’s, no? About fifteen years before Obama and Hillary finally “evolved” on the issue.
    
    But there’s a fourth point I’d make about this silly little protest, and it’s about the appeal to Pence, and to Trump. These idiots are in the middle of a play about the Founding Fathers but seem to have forgotten that the President is not a King. Protection comes from the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Supreme Court and so forth.
    
    I realise that the US Left have perhaps forgotten about these things in the age of Barack “I’ve-got-a-pen-and-a-phone” Obama, but are they really so ignorant of US civics and/or so paranoid that they think these defences against Trump and religious bigots don’t exist or will fail?
    
    If the Founding Fathers had been present for this performance they might have wondered what the hell had happened to Americans that they’d be begging for benevolence from some Great Leader.
    
    One last thing: imagine that some sinner walks into a church hoping for salvation. But instead of being accepted in and forgiven for his sins, he gets made an example of by the pastor in front of the assembly. You think that’s going to win him over? I’m not religious and I gather you aren’t either, but since so much of the modern Left resembles a religion I thought this argument might appeal more than my others.
    
    But I get it – which is that you don’t. So you just keep trucking on down this track. More power to the “Right wing” in that case.
    
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    November 21, 2016 10:41am
    - Fletch
      
      “We truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values
      
      Speaks for itself..
      
      Second, it’s a case of the Left swallowing its own bullshit, most notably that Pence believes in “conversion therapy” for gays.
      
      To speak to that point, two new studies are showing that the “born that way” idea is a fraud and even LGBT ‘experts’ are saying that sexuality is fluid. And if something is fluid, then isn’t it fair that people should be able to seek counselling if they find they do not like the way they feel?
      
      https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/deceit-and-lies-we-have-been-told-on-homosexuality
      
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      November 21, 2016 11:11am
      - SPC
        
        I would suspect that the most successful conversion therapy would involve being pleasured by an attractive person of the opposite (most PC term for hetero sexual partner personage) – but for some reason those most interested in helping with this change are not willing to offer this method.
        
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        November 21, 2016 11:32am
      - Disaster Area
        
        So presumably if sexuality is fluid, and conversion therapy works, it must be possible for heterosexuals to be ‘turned’ gay?
        All it would take is being pleasured by someone of the same sex?
        
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        November 21, 2016 6:23pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Productions that might be safer for Mike Pence to see:
      http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2016/11/19/here_are_some_plays_mike_pence_might_like_better_than_hamilton.html
      Make Broadway Great Again!
      
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      November 21, 2016 11:30am
    - Disaster Area
      
      Firstly, I think that the cast of the show is probably has more racial and sexual diversity than the Trump/Pence appointments to their cabinet, who seem to be white, male and conservative Christians.
      Secondly, Indiana has some legislation that makes it legal to discriminate against people based on their sexuality. Now, given the national stage, it is not unreasonable for people to fear that these policies will be given national significance.
      Thirdly, Trump has said that gay marriage would not be on his agenda because it has been to the Supreme Court, but doesn’t apply the same internal logic to Roe v. Wade and abortion
      Fourthly: I think that the Founding Fathers would notice two things: Firstly that the cast were able to address the VP elect and speak freely without fear of persecution. I also think that they would be worried that the cast felt that they had to.
      Re the last thing: In America there is meant to be separation of church and state, yet many of the sentiments of Trump and Pence are skewed towards the evangelical Christian.
      
      We are on the same page when it comes to religion and it upsets me when members of any religion use their religion’s morality to impose restrictions on other people’s lifestyle.
      
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      November 21, 2016 5:23pm
      - tom hunter
        
        … I think that the cast of the show is probably has more racial and sexual diversity…
        
        And there it is!
        
        Sure, I’ve no doubt that’s true. And ideas? Ideology? Opinions? Like I said – no diversity on that front – which actually is the most important of all. You should watch that SNL skit I linked to, The Bubble. Or the comedic character of , “Mr Pie” and his opinion of the Left in the wake of Trump that’s being doing the rounds.
        
        So much for the concept of seeing the content of the person’s character beyond the colour of the skin (MLK’s dream) or the gender. “Liberalism” really has regressed and become reactionary.
        
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        November 21, 2016 6:28pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Sure, those libruls are the real racists and sexists.
        
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        November 21, 2016 6:34pm
      - Disaster Area
        
        There’s probably as much diversity of opinion and ideology on that stage as there is on Kiwiblog, or indeed in the Trump/Pence cabinet. Shall we make a wager on how many black/women/liberals/socialists/gay or lesbians get into cabinet?
        For each one of the above announced by Trump, I will donate $5 to Rainbow Youth. (edited to add – up to $50, I’m not made of money).
        
        I don’t think that having diversity of opinion and/or ideology is the most important thing, I think that not imposing YOUR ideology and opinions on other people is the most important.
        
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        November 21, 2016 6:57pm
      - tom hunter
        
        I don’t think that having diversity of opinion and/or ideology is the most important thing,
        
        This is my shocked face!
        
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        November 21, 2016 8:19pm
      - stephieboy
        
        “I think that not imposing YOUR ideology and opinions on other people is the most important’
        
        And Trump and his Cabinet will of course take very great care to avoid this ?
        
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        November 21, 2016 8:39pm
      - tom hunter
        
        Fourthly: I think that the Founding Fathers would notice two things: Firstly that the cast were able to address the VP elect and speak freely without fear of persecution. I also think that they would be worried that the cast felt that they had to
        
        Well I’m sure you’ll appreciate this Tweet from Pence himself…
        
        I nudged my kids and reminded them, ‘That’s what freedom sounds like.’
        
        I recall hearing something about how when the other side takes the low road, you take the high road. Now who said that? Oh right..
        
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        November 21, 2016 10:36pm
- G152
  
  Obviously they don’t hold an audience because the players are crap so they have to get into the news some other way.
  Shut the farce down and mark their cards.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:48am
  - Disaster Area
    
    They can’t hold an audience?
    ‘In 2016, Hamilton received a record-setting 16 Tony nominations, winning 11, including Best Musical, and was also the recipient of the 2016 Grammy Award for Best Musical Theater Album and the 2016 Pulitzer Prize for Drama.’
    
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    November 21, 2016 8:59am
    - mikenmild
      
      Downtickers rejecting reality?
      
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      November 21, 2016 11:41am
      - Disaster Area
        
        Obviously not fans of Musical Theatre.
        
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        November 21, 2016 5:26pm
  - sam green
    
    Strange. Pence himself thought the show was “outstanding”.
    
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    November 21, 2016 1:13pm
  - sam green
    
    Please explain what “mark their cards” means. It sounds fucking sinister to me, but by all means – explain how it isn’t.
    
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    November 21, 2016 2:22pm
- Gabby
  
  Are your siblings disgusted by your whining on a daily basis? Do they share your view of yourself as a special little snoflake? Do they live in hope that you will one day get over yourself and cease from your libness?
  
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  November 21, 2016 9:18am
- oldpark
  
  Let us also be aware,when they were advertising for participants to be in the ” Hamilton stage show. The add read ,”no whites need apply”, or words to that affect.” The Obama lookalike was preaching for so called equality for all. Hows that for hypocricy and racism,when the whole cast were non whites,other than King George,who was a caucasion,and needed to make the show authentic.
  
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  November 21, 2016 10:30am
  - mikenmild
    
    You might be unaware of some of the things which playwrights do with their material. Feel free not to attend if it makes you uncomfortable.
    
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    November 21, 2016 11:40am
  - sam green
    
    Old park – I imagine “the Sound of Music” production may have turned down Mahalia Jackson for the role of Maria too.
    
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    November 21, 2016 1:15pm
Happychappy

I would hope that Chester Burrow’s will have the last laugh after the result of a case made against him for supposedly delibratetly driving his car at a protester.This case is a joke as most of the press like Barry Soper have said in his column this morning with the comment about how the protesters had behaved and could have been auditioning for a part in a play.Lets hope the judge finds him innocent and also awards costs against this bunch of idiots
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November 21, 2016 8:14am
- fernglas
  
  The bunch of idiots against whom the costs will be awarded is you and me, HC; the Police have brought the prosecution, not the complainants, so the taxpayer pays any costs awarded.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:24am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Bonus points though for Soper being able to get an attack on Trump into a story about a minor court case where a pedestrian was nudged by a car in Wanganui.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:37am
  - Paulus
    
    Perhaps if you look at the video she may well have deliberately put her foot in the way of the wheel of the car to try and stop it.
    Then screamed to get the publicity for her lost cause.
    
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    November 21, 2016 10:16am
MT_Tinman

It’s a beautiful day, the global warming is working perfectly and I have the day off.

I thought I might wander down to Hagley Oval and watch the last day of the test match.
.
.
.
.
Oh!
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November 21, 2016 8:16am
- Biscuit
  
  It’s odd how many Test matches these days are over in under 4 days let alone 5, MT.
  
  This one was effectively a 3 dayer, right?
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:35am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Two and a half actually.
    
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    November 21, 2016 8:38am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  They were fortunate to avoid the loss in revenue from continuing to foolishly start test matches on a Thursday.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:39am
Simon

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
No talk about tax cuts in 8 years by National then all of a sudden tax cuts that were pending but will be delayed by the earthquakes.

Does anyone genuinely believe what John Key says about tax cuts? Which a piece of shit using the earthquakes as a political cover to run a greedy grasping government.
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November 21, 2016 8:17am
- Tarquin North
  
  I can happily live without a tax cut if that’s what it takes to sort things out. What we don’t want is tax and spend Labour and Greens style.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:27am
- calendar girl
  
  Stay classy, Simon.
  
  Regardless of conflicting political views, there would be very few KB commenters who would describe – for example – Helen Clark in such terms.
  
  When can we expect you to grow up a little?
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:28am
  - sooty
    
    On his birthday?
    
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    November 21, 2016 9:59am
  - sam green
    
    Very few? I’ve read the utmost filth expounded by KB commentators about Helen Clark – on this very blog – but hey – its ok when the right do it.
    
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    November 21, 2016 2:26pm
    - starboard
      
      That’s because she deserves it young sam..and it shall never cease
      
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      November 21, 2016 7:47pm
- Padriv Ustoev
  
  I don’t agree with you. It makes sense that due to the costs of the earthquakes the money used for tax cuts would go towards reconstruction efforts.
  
  Wouldn’t NZ have to borrow even more if we waned tax cuts and a rebuild?
  
  Robbing Peter to pay Paul?
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:33am
- Biscuit
  
  Simon, you are inaccurate.
  
  BIll English has been quoted OFTEN this term as saying that tax cuts are on the agenda.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:37am
- Huevon
  
  This wasn’t the message Bill English was giving on Red Radio this morning. He said tax cuts were still on the table but assessments need to be made when govt finances are updated in a few weeks.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:47am
  - Paulus
    
    I wonder if this comment by English deliberately remains to upset the whingers and whiners.
    Gets them really pissed of – go for it.
    
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    November 21, 2016 10:18am
- ross411
  
  You’re using the earthquakes as an excuse to make childish insults against Key. Even in your imagined world, you come off worse.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:47am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Simple Simon met a pieman going to the fair.
  Said Simple Simon to the pieman: “I hate John Key so fuck all of you.”
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:50am
  - starboard
    
    “Simple Simon met a Pieman, going to the fair.
    Said Simple Simon to the Pieman,
    What have you got there?
    Said the Pieman unto Simon,
    Pies, you dickhead.”
    
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    November 21, 2016 12:02pm
- B.L.Zeebub
  
  Ol` JK can dial up earthquakes on a whim just to get out of implementing tax cuts,orsum,JK for PM for life ,being so omnipotent and all.
  
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  November 21, 2016 9:46am
waikatogirl

Beautiful day here in the Waikato too Tinman. My new bean plants are soaking up the sunshine. ?
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November 21, 2016 8:17am
- Biscuit
  
  Dunno what sort of day it is here in Wellington, waikatogirl.
  
  There’s this odd huge ball of gas in the sky that is shining in my eyes and preventing me from seeing what’s going on…
  
  The bloody thing seems to be generating heat, too…
  
  Who do I complain to?
  
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  November 21, 2016 10:03am
  - Steve (North Shore)
    
    Complain to the Greens. Tell them ‘Global Warming’ is happening and they should take a look
    
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    November 21, 2016 6:03pm
wiseowl

Taking the opportunity to upgrade the free trade agreement with China while APEC is taking place should mean that the non trade part, ie the giving away our land part, should be taken out of the agreement.
That would help solve the housing crisis and the shift of home ownership from kiwis to overseas owners.
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November 21, 2016 8:20am
- Padriv Ustoev
  
  It won’t happen. Horse has bolted.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:35am
- Albert_Ross
  
  It’s not “our” land and it is not being “given away”. Private owners of land are allowed to sell it – their own property – to any buyer who is willing to pay them a price that is acceptable to them. If they don’t want to sell their land, they don’t have to; if they do want to sell it, but only to other New Zealanders, that is their right. How is any of that any of “our” business?
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:58am
EAD

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3953140/Violence-breaks-protesters-white-nationalists-Washington-D-C-hate-group-celebrates-year-Donald-Trump.html

All this violence from brainwashed “lefties” in America in the wake of the Trump electiom shows that they have absolutely nothing to offer by way of logical argument.

All they can do is scream hatefully about alleged “hate” to polite, mild mannered people going about their lawful business. Only the very stupid could be attracted to such a movement.

Their behaviour does the Anti Globalism side a great service as it will repel most normies and the contrast between them and the well dressed, well spoken, intelligent and rational people they’re opposing couldn’t be more stark.
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November 21, 2016 8:25am
- stephieboy
  
  EAD, but these pro Trump anti Jewish hashtags and tweets meet with full approval by you ?
  
  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3952786/Emmy-Rossum-responds-anti-semitic-tweets-Trump-supporters-use-hashtag-sieg-heil.html
  
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  November 21, 2016 9:16am
  - AgentBallSack
    
    ISIS supporters use knives to cut off peoples heads, so yeah – fuck you.
    
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    November 21, 2016 11:21am
mandk

“No talk about tax cuts in 8 years by National …”

Idiotic comment. National’s plans to cut taxes have been known for months.

And if you weren’t such a dimwit you would know that the story has been based on a question from a journalist: “Prime Minister, how have the recent earthquakes affected your plans to introduce tax cuts next year?”

Run along now. Time for school.
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November 21, 2016 8:26am
- marcw
  
  Please can you link to where National plans for tax cuts have been announced. All I have heard are media telling us they are first priority, and Labour smarmy comments in Parliament about National’s rich mates. JK and BE on the other hand have said that having achieved a surplus means that it gives them options, including tax cuts, in next year’s budget.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:43am
tedbear

Do you suppose Labour will be releasing an amended Comprehensive Housing Package?
The original was to be funded from the budget surplus the National Government has managed.
But now some or all of that money could be going into the Kaikoura/Wellington Earthquake Disaster Fund.

Should we be holding our breath for that to happen?
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November 21, 2016 8:29am
kowtow

Hopefully he gets taken out before he can return to Sweden.

“A Swedish fighter for the terror group ISIS claimed over 50,000 Swedish kroner in benefits while living and working in its Raqqa stronghold.”

http://www.thelocal.se/20161119/sweden-paid-isis-fighter-600-a-month-in-benefits
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November 21, 2016 8:35am
EAD

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38026007

“Virtual reality to aid Auschwitz war trials of concentration camp guards”

What a deeply obnoxious, shameful and indeed grotesque spectacle these ~~kangaroo courts~~ “trials” are. The despicable sight of ninety-year old clerks and telephonists, assiduously tracked down by repulsive “Naaaaaazi hunters” as having worked in a place that even Yad Vashem privately admitted to David Cole was not an extermination camp, being ruthlessly interrogated by state prosecutors who are not even allowed to accept submissions based on facts that have emerged since the rules were set, seemingly in stone and forever, in the immediate aftermath of the equally despicable International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg.

Then we have the same German legal system arresting people for posting anything bad on social media about the migrant crisis that is engulfing the country including criticism of the actions of the Government
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/11/07/german-prosecutors-target-facebook-failing-delete-hate-speech/

This is Germany today. God help it.
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November 21, 2016 8:49am
- stephieboy
  
  EAD, this elderly ex Auschwitz SS Guard is not complaining about the four years he was sentenced and he certainly rebuked Holocaust deniers like you ,
  
  “Hearing about Holocaust denial compelled former SS-Rottenführer Oskar Gröning to publicly speak about what he witnessed at Auschwitz, and denounce Holocaust deniers, stating:
  
  “I would like you to believe me. I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematoria. I saw the open fires. I was on the ramp when the selections took place. I would like you to believe that these atrocities happened because I was there.[”
  
  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32336353
  
  Surely a small price to pay with such a paltry wet bus ticket sentence .
  
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  November 21, 2016 9:35am
- mikenmild
  
  Our resident Nazi scum has sympathy for old-time Nazis when they finally face justice for their crimes.
  
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  November 21, 2016 10:11am
- EAD
  
  Haha,
  
  Along comes Milkmaid with his laughable “good guy-bad guy” narrative of moral absolutes, where the side that firebombed Dresden and unleashed untold destruction with the atom bomb are bastions of absolute morality against the side that consistently sought peace with its racial brethren and tried to crush the Jewish world-revolution at its roots.
  
  Even if the holy hoax had happened, and high-ranking National Socialists had been guilty of industrialised genocide – and we know that it didn’t and they weren’t – the men on the ground were normal human beings with families, hopes, dreams, and lives they were willing to sacrifice, all in order to fight for the honour of their nation, and – they knew – the future of Europe.
  
  But to the likes of Milkmaid and the those who understand why this frenzied and irrational state of hate (“resident Nazi scum” no less!) must continue. That narrative of course being that every single German soldier is a virulent anti-semite, a Nazi ideologue, a blond beast; a fascist. We must not be allowed to think twice; the Nazis were EVIL, Hitler was a MADMAN, World War II, with the loss of our Empire and tens of millions of the very best European lives lost it entailed, was absolutely necessary.
  
  In fact, all the war did was to ensure the continuation of the global financial swindle. How many of those tens of millions of men would have fought if they’d known today’s modern dystopia was the end to which their lives would be the means?
  
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  November 21, 2016 10:31am
  - mikenmild
    
    I think you will find most people are of the opinion that the world is a better place for the defeat of Nazism.
    Survival of the Jews and Gypsies also a good thing, despite the best efforts of your Nazi heroes.
    I always laugh when you do the “good guy; bad guy” thing. You do realise that bad things can be done in good causes, right? That the Allies could commit war crimes, but that didn’t mean we should not rejoice that they won the war?
    
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    November 21, 2016 11:54am
Ross12

For Tom “die MSM die” Hunter

19 Nov: Breitbart: Breitbart News Hits 300 Million Pageviews, 45 Million Uniques Over Last 31 Days
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2016/11/19/breitbart-news-hits-300-million-pageviews-45-million-uniques-last-31-days/

While the US election made the month an “unusual” month I’m sure any MSM publisher would love figures like this.
Whether you like or agree with Breitbart’s approach or not it just shows the MSM have at least got a battle on their hands or are losing market share big time.
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November 21, 2016 8:55am
- Inandout
  
  The Left very nearly had it in the US. Their heavily censored world would have spread its tentacles and closed down sites such as Breitbart using the considerable influence of the American government. This new found freedom of expression is like a veil has been lifted from the general population, and old timers can relate tales of what freedom of speech used to be like before being slowly throttled by PC. Of course speaking one’s mind will offend some people – but so be it.
  
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  November 21, 2016 9:14am
  - stephieboy
    
    Inandout , since when has freedom of expression being under threat in the USA and during the campaign
    
    In a general sense MSM got it right about Trump and his fabulist policies and demeanour with his brazen appeal to the far alt right !
    
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    November 21, 2016 9:39am
  - wiseowl
    
    It is scary to think of what would have happened if the USA had been inflicted with 4 or 8 years of Obama type policy.
    Snowflakes breeding more snowflakes.
    
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    November 21, 2016 10:01am
    - stephieboy
      
      Wiswowl ,
      
      alt right = brimstone breeding more brimstone !
      
      http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/brimstone/
      
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      November 21, 2016 10:05am
      - Manolo
        
        Repeat after me, stephieboy: President Trump, President Trump.
        
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        November 21, 2016 10:07am
Manolo

Very true:
https://reason.com/archives/2016/11/20/america-called-bullshit-on-saint-hillary

If you want to see politics based on emotionalism over reason and a borderline-religious devotion to an iconic figure, forget the Trump Army; look instead to the Cult of Clinton.
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November 21, 2016 8:58am
- Inandout
  
  This woman is truly a nut bar, and a Hillary addict:
  
  ‘Then there was Lena Dunham, who came out in hives—actual hives—when she heard Clinton had lost. Her party dress “felt tight and itchy.” She “ached in the places that make me a woman.” I understand being upset and angry at your candidate’s loss, but this is something different; this is what happens, not when a politician does badly, but when your savior, your Athena, “light itself,” is extinguished. The grief is understandable only in the context of the apocalyptic faith they had put in Hillary. Not since Princess Diana kicked the bucket can I remember such a strange, misplaced belief in one woman, and such a weird, post-modern response to someone’s demise (and Clinton isn’t even dead! She just lost!)’.
  
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  November 21, 2016 9:17am
  - Fletch
    
    Dunham has taken herself off to the wilderness now, where she is whispering to rocks!
    
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2016/11/17/grieving-lena-dunham-flees-new-york-donald-trumps-election/
    
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    November 21, 2016 12:21pm
Lance

Oh dear……………
EAD thinks the Nazi’s were hard done by and were actually good guys. It was just dem nasty Joos spreading lies.

The reality distortion field is strong in this one
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November 21, 2016 9:02am
- EAD
  
  @ Lance,
  
  You are a classic example of someone who is tethered to a post when it comes to discussing WWII. Stay within the short radius of this post (Germans were 100% evil, we were the good guys etc) and you get a pat on the back and validation from your peers. Stray just over the boundary of what is acceptable and you can expect opprobrium and scorn.
  
  Some of the topics that are rarely discussed:
  1) Britain (and therefore NZ) declared war on Germany when it invaded Poland and did nothing when Stalin did exactly the same a short time after. Ostensibly, this was because Britain had a treaty with Poland to this effect, but morally there was no difference.
  
  2) Germany had a valid dispute with Poland when it came to the subject of the treatment of the German population in Danzig.
  
  3) One of the biggest atrocities of the war was committed by after the battle of Monte Cassino in 1944 when up to 40,000 Italian women were raped by Allied Moroccan troops.
  
  4) The ethnic cleansing after the war when 11 million East European Germans were expelled from their ancestral homelands. Over 1 million died.
  
  5) The mass murder of German prisoners after the war when Eisenhower stripped them of the protection of the Geneva Convention by re-designating them as Disarmed Enemy Forces rather than Prisoners of War. They were denied accommodation, food and sanitation (all of which were covered by the Geneva Convention) and were effectively murdered.
  
  6) Before Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941, Stalin had annexed various territories in breach of their agreement and was eyeing parts of Romania. Why is Stalin’s aggression always overlooked?
  
  7) The treatment of the German civilian population after the war was utterly savage and barbaric. It went way beyond anything that could have been expected by an occupying power.
  
  8) And in no particular order. the Katyn massacre, Dresden, the mass rape of German women and children by Soviet troops in the closing stages of the war and the mass deportation of Poles by Stalin during the war to Siberia and the Urals.
  
  Will Hollywood be making movies about any of these subjects? Don’t hold your breath.
  
  https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e59d02ef02dd103326d0e2d05abedcc264639d82e2269c0b6dac891abd266da6.jpg
  
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  November 21, 2016 9:20am
  - stephieboy
    
    EAD, lets deal with some of your misinformation ,
    
    1 Both Hitler and Stalin concluded the Non Aggression pact that divided Poland between them of which both invaded West and East more or less simultaneously
    
    2. The only possible legitimate claim Hitler may of had was the Danzig corridor and Hemel by the Baltic sea . But he certainly had no claim on the rest of West Poland that included the occupation of Warsaw and the medieval capitol of Krakow
    
    3, The treatment of the t German Civilian population may of being savage in occupied and conquered Soviet Germany but certainly was not the case in allied occupied Western Germany .
    
    4 , The Katyn massacre and who was responsible is well known and even acknowledged in Putin’s Russia . Children were not mass raped by the Russians . Women certainly were but this must not be allowed to gloss over or denying Nazi atrocities with their occupation of Russia.
    
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    November 21, 2016 9:54am
    - mikenmild
      
      Well done stephieboy.
      To the downtickers: I know that most of you automatically downtick anything stephieboy writes, but please pause to reflect that in this instance your are effectively approving EAD’s Nazi propaganda.
      
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      November 21, 2016 10:27am
      - holysheet
        
        Nah it’s just we don’t support losers.
        Trump won, Killary lost.
        
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        November 21, 2016 3:25pm
Happychappy

My father was a staunch supporter of the Salvation Army and always gave to their appeals.So this year i am having second thoughts on giving to them after their bias over the housing situation and their attacks on the Government.I also believe that they will struggle in their Xmas appeal as it will come down to the people that usually give are the ones that work hard and look after their family’s and don’t like being conned by people living in their cars and blaming others for their cirumstances.
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November 21, 2016 9:09am
- Biscuit
  
  Indeed, Happychappy.
  
  The Salvation Army are these days even less neutral in the political spectrum than bloody Greenpeace is…
  
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  November 21, 2016 10:07am
  - mikenmild
    
    Perhaps you and Happychappy should start your own charity just to help those you deem worthy of assistance, with a bit of advocacy for the powerful on the die.
    
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    November 21, 2016 10:29am
    - Biscuit
      
      Mikenmild, break it down a bit:
      
      The Sallies do great work for those of the less fortunate amongst us.
      
      Greenpeace has the noble aim of preserving the world.
      
      I doubt there’d be a single Kiwiblogger against either of those aims.
      
      But look at what’s happened: both of those organisations have taken up political positions far to the left of mainstream and seem to spend 90% of their time (and maybe funds) on advocacy issues.
      
      As such, they are of no interest or use to me – and, most certainly, won’t be getting any of my dosh.
      
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      November 21, 2016 11:23am
      - mikenmild
        
        I’m no fan of Greenpeace, but I am interested in your claims about the Salvaton Army.
        Please provide a reference for your clam that they spend 90% of their time and money on advocacy.
        Not that advocacy is a bad thing, BTW.
        
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        November 21, 2016 11:56am
      - sam green
        
        Biscuit – The Sallies are a very conservative organisation – why do you think they scored the gambling contracts off of the Problem Gambling Foundation (allegedly outside of due process – court case still pending?) – could it have been because they weren’t mouthy about National and their deal with Sky City?
        
        I think they do goodly work on the ground by the way.
        
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        November 21, 2016 2:34pm
      - PhilBest
        
        “Greenpeace has the noble aim of preserving the world.”
        
        Patrick Moore, one of the founding members of Greenpeace in the 1960’s, quit in the 1980’s. He tells a definitive anecdote about the reasons why. At a global Greenpeace conference at which he was an important speaker, for good reason, he devoted his speech to the theme that “we can declare victory in the first world and move on”. He referred to the regulations that had been passed, the improvements in environmental indicators, and so on. The mood in the room became restive and eventually one of his fellow speakers seated up on the platform jumped up and confronted him, shouting “don’t you realise our mission is to destroy global capitalism”!!! The room erupted in cheering.
        
        Moore realised at that point, that Greenpeace was the wrong place for someone like him who actually did care about preserving the world – including by way of technology and commercialisation of it and so on. At which the free, first world, had beaten the unfree, centrally planned world hands down.
        
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        November 21, 2016 3:10pm
dime

JK talking tax cuts?

If we drops the top tax rate to 20% he will get my vote back.

but no doubt it will be some socialism for families extension, maybe a lolly for those on the bene etc etc

fuck labour
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November 21, 2016 9:25am
SPC

Trump is considering Romney as Secretary of State.

The politics of it are simple. Obama appointed Clinton so his major rival within the Democrat Party could not contest his domestic programme as a critic.

In Trump’s case his victory over other candidates was so clear cut his rival is last nominee Romney. And appointing him just amplifies that message to those who would offer resistance within Congress, while at the same time being inclusive (as much as silencing a critic by taking him inside the tent does that).
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November 21, 2016 9:28am
- stephieboy
  
  Mitt Romney does not share Trump’s cherished and benign views about Putin and so will be interesting if he does in fact get appointed .
  
  And if he gets the appointment it will be a sign of moderation by Trump c.f his more extremist appointments like Steve Bannon and Michael Flynn ..
  
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  November 21, 2016 10:01am
  - PhilBest
    
    “…extremist appointments…”
    
    Yeah, that is what the lying, smearing lefties say about all their political opponents who refuse to drink the P.C., multi-culti, cultural Quisling Kool-Aid.
    
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    November 21, 2016 3:12pm
Morrissey

A would-be totalitarian in action

This is pretty grim viewing: Donald Trump routinely resorting to the only option he has, due to the fact he has no intelligent or thoughtful counters to any of his challengers. Most disturbing, in my opinion, is No. 2, where he refuses to take a question from a Mexican reporter…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37zvOZ17eSE
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November 21, 2016 9:30am
- Happychappy
  
  Morrissey
  It is a bit rich coming from about another person’s intelligence when most of your post’s lack it. The thing is everyone is allowed a opinion but opinion is not fact and just like the John Key hater’s Trump will succeed and move on
  
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  November 21, 2016 9:42am
  - mikenmild
    
    Incorrect use of the apostrophe is almost certainly a sign of low intelligence…
    
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    November 21, 2016 10:31am
    - Happychappy
      
      I have never said i was intelligent in fact i have commented on my dislike of English.so unlike you i don’t have to have pillow talk with Andrew to find out what to say on politics. I wonder do you have to be intelligent to work in the Public Service and judging by you mentality i would suggest no
      
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      November 21, 2016 10:44am
      - SPC
        
        I donna dislike Bill’s English but your does by the word’s on the screen. Proof is in the reading, ffs proof read before sending. Or use edit.
        
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        November 21, 2016 10:51am
      - Gabby
        
        Intelligent or not, how crappy and lazy do you have to be not to end a fucking sentence with A FUCKING FULL STOP?
        I’m beginning to wonder if some sappy chappy is putting on a crappy acty.
        
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        November 21, 2016 12:00pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I disagree. It is a sign that someone has not been exposed to quality teaching of formal English.
      
      I know many folks of high intelligence whose command of English punctuation is abysmal.
      
      Once upon a time (well not so long ago) clever folks had secretaries and typists to polish up their missives.
      
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      November 21, 2016 11:05am
      - SPC
        
        Singularity alert.
        
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        November 21, 2016 11:09am
      - stephieboy
        
        Maggy Wassilieff, you have built a formidable reputation as a Grammar Nazi where it gives you the opportunity to focus on the minutiae and ignore the advocacy of core arguments and ideas .
        
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        November 21, 2016 12:32pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @stephieboy
        
        Be very careful who you are labeling a Nazi.
        
        If you look back through this thread, you will notice that it is not me who is denigrating the intelligence of a fellow kb contributor.
        
        I am well acquainted with the history of people that like to throw derogatory labels at folks.
        
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        November 21, 2016 2:39pm
      - sam green
        
        Mrs Green is an appalling speller – but is highly successful and very intelligent. “Did it convey meaning?” she says to me when I point out errors. “Yes”, I sheepishly reply.
        
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        November 21, 2016 2:39pm
    - kowtow
      
      isnt
      
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      November 21, 2016 1:20pm
  - Morrissey
    
    http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/d6/d6ed2c3fc2475f5def020f6fc6205b6558a2259d3b05c21a2db8e1d2850dbed6.jpg
    
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    November 22, 2016 7:22am
Liberty

This has been brewing for years. The locals have had guts full of the local vagrant.
For years this bum has been molly coddled by the Tasman district council and now the Nelson council.
It is time the council grew some balls and sorted out the situation. They are quite happy to hide
Behind the RMA when it suits them. Yet they can’t remove a vagrant of the street.
They really are inept.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUQJJxuTP7k
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November 21, 2016 9:35am
Manolo

Who will be Treasury boss?
http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-treasury-choices-likely-narrowed-to-two-1479669012?mod=e2tw

President-elect Donald Trump appears likely to choose between investment banker Steven Mnuchin and Texas Rep. Jeb Hensarling to steer the Treasury Department.
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November 21, 2016 9:59am
Manolo

Obama could be spreading more than mischief:
http://thehill.com/policy/international/306908-bolton-obama-should-not-do-anything-to-harm-israel-at-un

Former United Nations Ambassador John Bolton warned Sunday that President Obama should not take any actions before leaving office that could hurt Israel at the U.N.
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November 21, 2016 10:13am
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo , spreading more than mischief ? Not with this $38 billion 10 year arms deal ,
  
  http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-israel-agree-on-38-billion-10-year-defense-deal-tv-report/
  
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  November 21, 2016 12:35pm
Manolo

A French upset: Sarko is out.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/french-election-nicolas-sarkozy-at-risk-of-falling-out-of-key-presidential-primary-1479674887?mod=e2tw

Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy was knocked out of the first round of a key primary, marking a significant upset in the race to become France’s next president.

The results from 7,365 of the 10,228 polling stations across the country on Sunday showed Mr. Sarkozy winning only 21.7% vote after centering his campaign on pledges for hard-line security measures and a clampdown on immigration.
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November 21, 2016 10:42am
- SPC
  
  The last time a short person returned to power it ended at Waterloo.
  
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  November 21, 2016 11:07am
  - Happychappy
    
    Sorry on the post at 10 51am i hit the report button when going to reply
    
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    November 21, 2016 11:36am
    - SPC
      
      Mein host does not respond to one off (mishits) reports only when three or more occur.
      
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      November 21, 2016 11:51am
- kowtow
  
  Ha , this won’t have helped him.The permanent political elites , which one isn’t a crook?
  
  “A French-Lebanese businessman has publicly repeated claims that the former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi gave €50m (£43m) to fund Nicolas Sarkozy’s successful 2007 campaign for the French presidency.”
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/15/muammar-gaddafi-allegedly-gave-nicolas-sarkozy-50m-euros-2007-presidential-campaign
  
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  November 21, 2016 1:18pm
SPC

Blair is returning to UK politics to ensure that voters have a chance to think again during the Brexit process.

This from the man who enabled Moslems taking over state funded schools and enabled open access to East Europeans when their nations joined the EU in 2004 (when the other option, one chosen by Germany, was to delay access for 10 years).

The only other person who did as much to get Brexit across the line was Merkel when she committed treason against the EU and unilaterally sabotaged the Schengen agreement – allowing a million people who entered the EU illegally to claim asylum in Germany. Wirthin ten years they would all have the right to live and work in the UK and or claim benefits and send their children to one of their own schools at taxpayers expense.

But from the creature of the WMD lie and bootlicker supreme on Iraq – just more of the same old. No one man has done more to discredit the liberal globalist establishment. And they say the left need to have some centrist moderate like him to be electable …
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November 21, 2016 10:42am
Manolo

Even a stake through the heart would not kill this modern-day Dracula:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3954246/The-Tories-screwing-Brexit-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-nutter-m-returning-politics-Tony-Blair-hunts-Westminster-office-set-new-Brexit-lobbying-group.html
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November 21, 2016 10:59am
Huevon

There was a great exchange on 9 to Noon this morning when Kathyn Ryan interviewed the head of the Defence Force about the military’s response to the earthquake.

The army officer pronounced Kaikoura like a real NZer. Comrade Kathryn pronounced it like, well, a Red Radio announcer. They went back and forth. With each opportunity, our taxpayer funded left wing propagandist put more and more emphasis on her faux Maori.

I was left happy that our nation’s security is in the hands of a man that doesn’t buy into this bullshit.
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November 21, 2016 11:37am
- mikenmild
  
  Interesting that you should infer competence from a man’s inability to pronounce words.
  
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  November 21, 2016 11:59am
  - stephen2d
    
    It hasn’t stopped the lefties with Metiria’s Te Reo “performance” in the parliament house.
    
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    November 21, 2016 12:07pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Which would be funny mikenmild if you could look in a mirror and think for a minute. I can well recall you (and others) mocking Trump and G W Bush for various speech issues.
    
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    November 21, 2016 2:37pm
- starboard
  
  I constantly laugh listening to the red hacks trying to get their tongues around Kai-cora, but they cannot speak engrish properly..Inlind against Inland as one example.
  Wendy Petrie is one of the worst.
  
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  November 21, 2016 12:18pm
  - itstricky
    
    Shame on them for… errr…. ummm… trying.
    
    Got any kids starboard? Do you berate them for trying to do the right thing?
    
    Where’s that example of a free pass?
    
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    November 21, 2016 1:07pm
    - starboard
      
      Shes not trying to do the right thing drippy. If she, and all the other talking heads at one news had their way, Im sure they would be pronouncing murri in the good old Kiwi way , Kaikoura being Kai-cora. Tour-poo is T-our-poe. Funganui is Wong-a nui.
      But the PC brigade has got them by the curlys, they “will” pronounce it the new way. Its just so funny to listen to…but we must take a stand against the PC nazis..say no to bastardising the language, do not accept it.
      
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      November 21, 2016 2:00pm
      - itstricky
        
        So the “right thing” is not to try to pronounce a place name the Maori way?
        
        Effectively, you’re berating someone for attempting to pronounce a Maori place name in a Maori way?
        
        Boy, tough family. When your kids learn Spanish, will you berate them for pronouncing “Barcelona” the correct, too Spanish’y, way?
        
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        November 21, 2016 2:49pm
      - starboard
        
        drippy, Ive never heard a bro pronounce Kai-cora any other way except as Kai-cora.
        
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        November 21, 2016 3:11pm
      - PhilBest
        
        I meant to reply to “itstricky” but I hit “report” by mistake.
        
        The difference is that Spanish is a living language with actual people identified with it in their daily speaking of it. As Starboard said, bros all say it differently to the PC way anyway.
        
        You might as well make it politically correct for everyone in Britain to speak King’s English, how would that work?
        
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        November 21, 2016 3:19pm
      - sam green
        
        Ahhh Phil – it’s just accent – John Key has a pronounced kiwi twang (and he eats his vowels) – I don’t to other Kiwis but I do to people in London. Some Maori speak with an accent much like John Keys – others are true to the phonetically written Maori pronunciation. Why make it a bloody battle!
        
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        November 21, 2016 3:32pm
      - itstricky
        
        Yep
        
        I also don’t see why correct pronunciation is “PC”.
        
        And a language living? The rules of languages don’t just disappear when someone decides not enough people speak it any more. Kaikoura, Taupo and W(h)anganui are very real, very alive, places.
        
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        November 21, 2016 4:18pm
      - starboard
        
        Eric Young Prime TV…”Kai- cara ”
        
        Just wrong..
        
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        November 21, 2016 5:35pm
  - itstricky
    
    but they cannot speak engrish properly..Inlind against Inland as one
    
    BTW, how’s JK’s pronunciation? You would have thought he, if anyone, could get it right?
    
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    November 21, 2016 1:10pm
    - starboard
      
      JK’s fine , I can understand him and find no need to cringe when he says Kai-cora as he pronounces is correctly.
      
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      November 21, 2016 2:02pm
      - itstricky
        
        But how’s his English?
        
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        November 21, 2016 2:50pm
  - Left Right and Centre
    
    Wendy Petrie is one of the worst.
    
    They are all the worst. All of them. Total shit. Abusive noise pollution from needlessly contorted faces. The modern broad cackling nasal kiwi accent and anything goes sentence construction and heavily American influenced informality. Why ?
    Because they don’t want to alienate their largest market. The ads are on next selling cheap nasty chicken pieces to the semi-literate KFC classes.
    News people and Shortland Street actors. Interchangeable.
    
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    November 21, 2016 3:42pm
- stephieboy
  
  Huevon, interesting to hear about your Radio tastes other than RNZ ?
  
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  November 21, 2016 12:39pm
  - Huevon
    
    Well listening to recitations of the Koran isn’t my thing, so I usually flick between the Rock, Concert FM and Hauraki. Anything in there that puts me on the hate list?
    
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    November 21, 2016 1:08pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Huevon , so those two stations allow you to provide us with some informed debate ?
      
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      November 21, 2016 2:07pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      The Rock, the ROCK, WTF ! 😉
      
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      November 21, 2016 2:38pm
SPC

The Herald has feedback on the jersey to be used this weekend by the AB’s.

The comments received are the best evidence against citizen voter democracy one will read today.

Few had any idea what they were talking about, a one off game jersey used when we play Scotland (the waterlogged test of 75 when we had white jersey and black shorts) and France (remember 2007 and the jersey never to be worn again).

Maybe misled by the Herald calling it the new AB jersey …

The comments received are the best evidence against MSM misled citizen voter democracy one will read today.
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November 21, 2016 11:56am
Biscuit

mikenmild, 11.56am.

I agree, advocacy can be a good thing … but from where I sit the advocacy of folk like the Sallies (and, since I cited them in my earlier post, Greenpeace, too) is unrelenting and is always negative to the incumbent Government.

The Sallies are a registered charity … and yet they feel obliged to issue a State of the Nation address each year and, vis-a-vis this Government, to criticise (ad nauseum) what they perceive as inaction on Social Housing and Poverty Eradication.

We elect Governments to be held accountable, once every 3 years, for their actions in both fields, amongst others.

Who holds the Salvation Army (and Greenpeace) to account? And you could use the same logic re Penny Bright and her (clearly unwanted by the masses) diatribes about, invariably, Governments of the centre right.
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November 21, 2016 12:16pm
- Kimbo
  
  I don’t always agree with the Sallies, but
  
  1. The church of all denominations has a mandate to act as the voice of the prophet, and hold Caesar to account. What Caesar and the populace do with that advice is up to them.
  
  2. I’d suggest that having done immeasurable charitable “good” for some 150 years, and as that charity far out-weighs their political pronouncements…then, unlike an overtly political pressure/agitation franchise like Greenpeace, a cult like Destiny and certainly Penny Bright, the Sallies have earned the right to be listened to. Maybe not agreed with, sure, but listened to, yep.
  
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  November 21, 2016 12:30pm
  - Albert_Ross
    
    They have a mandate? From whom?
    
    4 1
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    November 21, 2016 2:09pm
    - Kimbo
      
      They believe God the Father has given it to them, through his Son, Jesus Christ, and via the ministry of the Holy Spirit. If you don’t agree, you are free to do so, or even criticise them for it.
      
      The motto of the Sallies in particular “Blood and Fire” (with echoes of Moses) reflects that belief. Presbyterian Church symbol is a burning bush – same idea.
      
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      November 21, 2016 2:16pm
wiseowl

Truly painful watching press conference with Obama currently on live.
Some good questions .
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November 21, 2016 12:17pm
- stephieboy
  
  Such as ?
  
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  November 21, 2016 12:49pm
  - wiseowl
    
    Have you implemented all the policies that stephieboy wanted during your term as El Presidente’?
    If not, why not?
    
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    November 21, 2016 2:26pm
    - stephieboy
      
      wiswowl , it could be a question of who controls both houses of congress to get desired policies through .
      
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      November 21, 2016 4:40pm
dime

Sad to see Donations to the clinton foundation have fallen sharply.

I suspect we will see an ever bigger drop off next year.

Its a real shame, think of all the needy who will miss out on stuff…
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November 21, 2016 12:38pm
- stephieboy
  
  dime , and the body count continues to rise ?
  
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  November 21, 2016 2:09pm
  - Gabby
    
    dime was taken out some time ago, and replaced by a dimbot. The wrath of the Clintons is boundless and he was a mighty thorn in their side.
    
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    November 21, 2016 7:36pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Gabby , chem trails also your special thing ?
      
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      November 21, 2016 7:38pm
      - tom hunter
        
        Gabby the Gobshite … was actually trying to support your attack on dime. He was using sarcasm to do so.
        
        And yet you’re such a kneejerk twit, that rather than picking up on “Gabby”‘s support you decided to attack him.
        
        Jesus, no wonder even other Lefties here regard you as a total dumbfuck. I can only assume that “gabby” held back out of solidarity.
        
        Still the No. 1: Kiwiblog’s Dumbest Commentator.
        
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        November 21, 2016 9:03pm
Manolo

Obama, incompetent president, failed Messiah and true architect of the Democratic Party debacle at the recent American elections.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-defends-legacy-asia-pacific-summit-224951240.html

US President Barack Obama defended his legacy on free trade and security issues Sunday at a summit of Asia-Pacific leaders thrown into uncertainty by the election of his radically different successor Donald Trump.
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November 21, 2016 2:17pm
Jack5

The National Party will have only itself to blame for the shit that will come its way from State-owned Radio NZ in the next year.

The State-owned radio’s Leftist stance will be heightened by the Maorification of its programmes that will result from its agreement with Maori broadcasters.

National this year confirmed Radio NZ’s position by reappointing the board chairman, and adding a person with prominent Maori interests to the board.

Evidence of the Maorification of the already far-left Radio NZ can be heard in a podcast that has headline place on the Radio NZ web site today.

The podcast presents a fairly one-sided, anti-settler view of the Waikato War. The main source is historian Vincent O’Malley, co-founder of the research firm, History Works, which had done much work on behalf of tribes, hapu, and various treaty claim agencies, including the Waitangi Tribunal and the Crown Forestry Rental Trust.

Colourful bits of the podcast include comments such as:

“Horrific atrocities against Maori” and “female prisoners bayoneted to death.”

“Huge numbers of British troops were stationed in New Zealand. At the height of he war more British troops stationed in New Zealand than Britain – 12,000 of them.”

The main villain of the podcast is Russell, who founded the Bank of New Zealand. The podcast producers colour an early mention of Russell with a sound clip of a real or pseudo radio advertisement for the current BNZ.

According to the Encyclopedia of New Zealand in 1860 there were 1000 British Army soldiers in New Zealand, and this peaked at 10,000 by 1865, and then the British Army began to withdraw from the country. They seemed to consist mainly of infantry, but with two batteries of artillery and some engineers. There were no cavalry.

Stand by for a torrent of Waikato War stuff from the Left this year. Already there have been mentions that a Land Wars day should replace Anzac Day as the country’s main memorial observance.

Radio NZ will be a main conduit for this torrent. And National let it happen.
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November 21, 2016 2:48pm
- mikenmild
  
  Why would interest in the Waikato War be a left wing issue?
  
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  November 21, 2016 2:52pm
  - Jack5
    
    Stupid question you already know the answer to, Milky. Western colonisation anywhere is a target of the Left. When it’s non-left, doesn’t seem t matter. For example, the extremely brutal Taranaki Maori colonisation of the Chathams, before the Treaty of Waitangi.
    
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    November 21, 2016 2:55pm
    - mikenmild
      
      I simply don’t see how you get that from the publication of a history of the Waikato War, a book you have doubtless not even read.
      If you were to come back with some informed criticism of the writer’s work, including some illustrations of how it is one-sided or ‘leftist’ in some way, that could start a conversation. But I’d probably get more sense from starboard…
      
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      November 21, 2016 3:01pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Mikenmild:
        
        I’d probably get more sense from starboard
        
        It sounds like you’re proposing to have a therapy session with Starboard? That could be fun! Would it be ok for me to have silent observer status?
        
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        November 21, 2016 4:33pm
      - Jack5
        
        Vincent O’Malley was interviewed on the podcast. There is no requirement to read every dreary word of every revisionist historian who pops up on Radio NZ, a.k.a Radio Labour.
        
        Your 3.01 post is equivalent to saying, “how dare you criticise communism unless you have read all of Marx.”
        
        That pompous reading requirement, of course, is bullshit.
        
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        November 21, 2016 4:37pm
      - mikenmild
        
        I’m not expecting a critique of Marxist thought from you, Jack – that would be quite a feat.
        I just don’t think that it is unreasonable for you to be able to say n what way O’Malley’s work is deficient. Hey, it might well be, but no one will ever find out from you.
        
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        November 21, 2016 4:52pm
      - Jack5
        
        Re Milky at 4.52 …
        
        You are welcome to wade your way through the tomes of the historian who advises Treaty claimants. It won’t change your mind on anything,though. Your rudder is jammed, Milky, locking your brain on a course to political port.
        
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        November 21, 2016 4:58pm
      - starboard
        
        Pass Nosty…
        
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        November 21, 2016 5:27pm
    - sam green
      
      Are you still fighting your own war of colonisation Jack5? Why not let us explore our history from all perspectives? Let’s talk about it. There’s good and bad on all sides – it’s war – it’s complex – but it’s our history as a country. BTW – did you hear Tame Iti on RNZ the other day – his views on Rua Kenana were an eye opener to me – could be for you too.
      
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      November 21, 2016 3:22pm
      - Jack5
        
        Sam, Rua was a bit of a Bible banger.
        
        Funny how the Lefties rubbish Christianity, but would make an exemption for Rua.
        
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        November 21, 2016 4:41pm
      - mikenmild
        
        The more you write, the more you confirm your ignorance.
        There is a certain irony, though, in a person defending their world view (which they presumably believe to be grounded in evidence) while maintaining that any ‘revisionist’ view can be dismissed without regard. Such is life for the closed mind.
        
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        November 21, 2016 5:56pm
      - sam green
        
        Jack5 – Obviously you didn’t hear Tame Iti. Download the podcast if you want to listen to something interesting that may be a view that you didn’t know about. Kenana was not necessarily the subject that I was talking about – it was just an aside, but I was interested in Iti’s take on him, particularly as he is Tuhoe.
        
        You’ve just made a whole lot of assumptions. Oh well – what’s new. Just a smokescreen for not addressing the main question.
        
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        November 21, 2016 8:04pm
- stephieboy
  
  jack 5 , you must know that the c 10,000 troops was considerable given the population of NZ c 85,000 at that time .
  
  As mm suggests read the book so that you can test the claims of ” female prisoners bayoneted to death “etc .
  
  And why should any media entity merely reflect what you think with your sweeping assertions of” far left” etc
  
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  November 21, 2016 3:36pm
  - Jack5
    
    Greetings to all in the Stephies Islamic troll team.
    
    The 10,000 British troops are far fewer than the 21,000 in Keane’s army which shot it out with your cousins in the First Afghan War in 1835. (I realise some of your other, renegade, cousies were likely in Keane’s army, too.)
    
    More battles were to follow.
    
    Not so much Afghan women there being bayoneted to death as Afghan women castrating the wounded British and Indian soldiers, eh?
    
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    November 21, 2016 4:50pm
    - mikenmild
      
      It is obviously impossible for British troops to ever commit war crimes…
      
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      November 21, 2016 5:58pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Jack 5 , the Anglo Afghan wars that the Brits ultimately lost .
      
      Correct ?
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Afghan_War
      
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      November 21, 2016 8:51pm
- rangitoto
  
  Well ANZAC day celebrates a loss so I’ve no problem with a day marking a glorious victory for the British Empire against the unruly natives.
  
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  November 21, 2016 4:14pm
  - Jack5
    
    It wasn’t about victory but about sacrifice, Rangitoto.
    
    You know, of course, that there were no Waikato Maori among the Maori contingent at Anzac. Can’t say I blame them, though.
    
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    November 21, 2016 4:52pm
    - sam green
      
      And there were reasons for that Jack5. Why don’t you seek to understand instead of rubbishing everything that is not your narrow narrative.
      
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      November 21, 2016 8:08pm
      - mikenmild
        
        I think the Waikato weren’t yet grateful enough for the benefits of the British Empire to fight on its behalf.
        Probably influenced by leftist historians.
        
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        November 21, 2016 9:09pm
  - stephieboy
    
    rangitoto , by the end of WWI at least 2,300 had served in the New Zealand ( Maori ) Pioneer Battalion ( including 458 Pacific Islanders )
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_(Māori)_Pioneer_Battalion
    
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    November 21, 2016 5:01pm
Left Right and Centre

Hate-listened to Salvation Army ‘major’ on ZB.
Weak msm noddys – woman’s weekly radio.
Combined with religious dickheads.
The old 1-2
Looking for cash for 25 Dec
That’s their religious bullshit problem.
I’m donating money for losers to have a ‘special religious day’ ? Get fkd
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November 21, 2016 3:57pm
Manolo

Shed a tear for the uber corrupt Hillary Clinton.
http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/clintons-popular-vote-lead-now-stands-at-15-million%E2%80%94and-its-growing/ar-AAkxOzq?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=mailsignout

Donald Trump didn’t actually flip many Democrats, the thinking goes. Instead, Hillary Clinton failed to turn out liberal voters who had previously voted for Barack Obama. It’s a tempting narrative for smarting progressives, as it maintains status quo thinking—Clinton’s unlikable!—and removes any culpability on the part of the Democrats for missing a massive shift in the electorate. In other words, it’s Clinton’s fault, not theirs, that Trump won the presidency.
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November 21, 2016 4:05pm
stephieboy

Manolo , the shift was not massive when the popular vote is taken into consideration . Hillary Clinton is ahead of Trump by 1.5 million and is continuing to grow ,

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/clintons-popular-vote-lead-will-grow-and-grow/507455/
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November 21, 2016 4:53pm
- Manolo
  
  Exactly. Another reason you start your vocalisation exercises: One, President Trump, two, President Trump.
  
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  November 21, 2016 5:30pm
starboard

“wah wah wha wah wah”…

Trumps President stiffy..move on..
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November 21, 2016 5:23pm
- stephieboy
  
  starboard , the swing was not massive as the popular vote suggests !
  
  Deny reality all you like with your “wah wah wha wah wah”…tants !
  
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  November 21, 2016 6:46pm
  - starboard
    
    I-t d-o-e-s-n-t m-a-t-t-e-r- Stiffy
    
    Trump is the President…not Doctor Evil
    
    She lost..Trump won..build bridge..get over it..
    
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    November 21, 2016 8:12pm
Manolo

Has any airhead or celebrity left for Canada yet? If not, why not?
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November 21, 2016 5:28pm
sooty

If they ripped up th railway line Picton to Christchurch, could they four lane the highway?
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November 21, 2016 5:37pm
nasska

….”could they four lane the highway?”….

Interesting point. Probably they could at least three lane a fair bit of it allowing for adequate passing lanes but they won’t.

Instead the nannies will go for narrow lanes to artificially reduce speed, wide shoulders which no one can use & the mandatory cycle lanes for wobbly, lycra clad fools to ride four abreast in while not paying a cent towards construction or maintenance of same.

Might as well keep the railway for nostalgic purposes.
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November 21, 2016 6:06pm
Reid

Lot more going on than meets the eye here:
https://sputniknews.com/us/201611201047635856-usa-defence-nsa-oust-attempt/

and apparently it involves this flight:
https://www.metabunk.org/identified-mystery-plane-circling-over-denver-iron99-e-6b-mercury-tacamo.t8162/
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November 21, 2016 6:15pm
- mikenmild
  
  Probably just chemtrails….
  
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  November 21, 2016 6:39pm
stephieboy

Reid, as Mick West explains the “mysterious ” flight of E -6 B Mercury 8612 was actually quite innocuous ,

” Update: The “mysterious” plane over Denver was indeed an E-6B Mercury, TACAMO – a mobile command platform used by the US Navy – the extra bumps are for communication equipment. While it’s unknown exactly what it was doing, it’s not at all mysterious. They fly practice and testing missions all the time. The only reason people noticed this one was that it left a nice contrail that showed the curved path it was taking.

Original Story.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new…ircles-over-denver-officials-have-few-answers

DENVER — Thousands saw a plane circling the Denver metro area late Wednesday morning, questioning where it may have come from and what it may be doing. Officials at a host of federal organizations had few answers.

Denver7 began tracking a flight named IRON99 as it traversed from California over the pacific. It traveled over the Rocky Mountains and eventually over the Denver metro area.

Sputnik informs us the Russians have an exact equivalent, the Ill 96 400 wide bodied and modified aircraft ,

https://sputniknews.com/russia/201607281043728673-russia-doomsday-plane-ready/
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November 21, 2016 6:33pm
- Reid
  
  Reid, as Mick West explains the “mysterious ” flight of E -6 B Mercury 8612 was actually quite innocuous ,
  
  stephie, the link I gave did too. This doesn’t mean it was, but naturally, expecting you not to believe everything on face value when clearly most of your time is taken understanding what in fact is the face value, is a bridge too far, for you.
  
  And BTW, there were two links, not one, and I was referring to the connection between the two, but again stephie, it’s natural for you to miss that, since by the time you’ve absorbed the incredible complexity of an article on a plane circling Denver Airport, you’ve obviously quite forgotten nearly everything else, about anything.
  
  Luckily stephie, I wasn’t relying on you to be the one to crack the mystery and guess what? I’m not disappointed.
  
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  November 21, 2016 6:50pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Reid:
    
    I wasn’t relying on [Stephieboy] to be the one to crack the mystery
    
    Stephieboy will be devastated that you have such a low opinion of his potential to be great. He responds to so many of your comments that one could almost be forgiven for thinking that he looks up to you as his mentor!
    
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    November 21, 2016 6:58pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Make stephieboy Great Again!
      
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      November 21, 2016 7:03pm
      - nasska
        
        Now there’s a challenge. 🙂
        
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        November 21, 2016 7:05pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Sure easier than Trump’s task!
        
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        November 21, 2016 7:08pm
      - pentwig
        
        Again??
        When was daffy ever great.
        its brain is lodged in a wrinkle in its poo poo valve.
        Thus the crap it exposes us to.
        Its is a sad daffy.
        
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        November 21, 2016 9:06pm
  - stephieboy
    
    Reid , in respect of you second link does the Duma have an equivalent House Committee that seeks to bring errant Cabinet / Politburo members or other administrative officials to account ?
    
    http://www.ushistory.org/gov/6c.asp
    
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    November 21, 2016 7:04pm
Reid

While the word was focused in rapt attention on the outcome of the US Presidential election, Vladimir Putin did something quite amazing – he arrested Alexei Uliukaev, Minister of the Economy in the Medvedev government, on charges of extortion and corruption. Uliukaev, whose telephone had been tapped by the Russian Security Services since this summer, was arrested in the middle of the night in possession of 2 million US dollars. Putin officially fired him the next morning.

Russian official sources say that Uliukaev extorted a $2 million bribe for an assessment that led to the acquisition by Rosneft (a state run Russian oil giant) of a 50% stake in Bashneft (another oil giant). Apparently, Uliukaev tried to threaten Igor Sechin, the President of Rosneft and a person considered close to Vladimir Putin and the Russian security and intelligence services.

Yes, you read that right: according to the official version, a state-owned company gave a bribe to a member of the government. Does that make sense to you? How about a senior member of the government who had his telephone tapped and who has been under close surveillance by the Federal Security Service for over a year – does that make sense to you?

This makes no sense at all and the Russian authorities fully realize that. But that is the official version. So what is going on here? Do you think that there is a message from Putin here?

Of course there is!

Remember the corrupt Minister of Defense Anatolii Serdiukov? He was first fired from his position and only then arrested. But this time around, it is a member of the government which is arrested in the middle of the night. For a few hours, his subordinates could not even reach him – they had no idea what had happened to him. Was that a mistake? Hardly.

The way Uliukaev was detained was carefully choreographed to instill the strongest sense of fear possible in all the other 5th columnists still in power because in so many ways Uliukaev was a symbol for all the the “Atlantic Integrationists” (those in the Kremlin who want to integrate Russia into the US controlled international security system):

http://www.unz.com/tsaker/putin-is-finally-purging-the-medvedev-government/

A lot go people don’t know that Russian politics has two factions: Medvedev represents the oligarchs whereas Putin the people. Putin’s had a truce with the oligarchs since he started ruling. Well, sort of. He arrested Khordakovsky and a lot of them suddenly preferred London to Moscow in the early noughties.

See what happened after the Wall fell was the US wanted to really drive in the stake so it got the Chicago School boys to do a privatisation special under the drunken Yeltsin which resulted in vast Russian assets being sold for cents in the dollar. The oligarchs (financed by Western bankers) became extremely rich and the Russian people lost the assets. They refer to the 90’s as “the lost decade.”

Unlike evidently Western sheeple, many Russians are educated and they worked out long ago the West did this on purpose and regard the oligarchs as traitors. However money brings power and this is where Medvedev and his cronies represent the vast network of corrupt power interests and since this is Russia there’s a lot of corrupt power influence. Whereas Putin [purports] to represent the people and underneath that you have all kinds of interests including nationalism and patriotism, just like you have everywhere else in the world. There’s lots of detail on it, you can’t understand Russia unless you have at least a passing acquaintance with this dynamic. And now it seems after a decade and a half, Putin is finally making some moves on it.
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November 21, 2016 6:46pm
stephieboy

Reid , BS ,

“A lot go people don’t know that Russian politics has two factions: Medvedev represents the oligarchs whereas Putin the people..”

Then why does Putin choose to keep Medvedev as Prime Minister ?

“Putin, Medvedev attend Orthodox Easter Mass in Moscow”

https://www.rt.com/in-motion/341553-russia-orthodox-easter-mass/
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November 21, 2016 6:51pm
Gabby

I hear tell that Putie’s not short of a bob or two. Where d’you reckon he got his dosh, Satie? He’s no oligarch, oh no, not at all.
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November 21, 2016 6:55pm
- Reid
  
  This is right Gabby, it’s an interesting question, who Putin really is.
  
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  November 21, 2016 7:09pm
  - mikenmild
    
    Is he Jewish, at all, or even human?
    
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    November 21, 2016 7:11pm
    - Reid
      
      Why mm? Would it help?
      
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      November 21, 2016 7:13pm
      - mikenmild
        
        You’re speculating about Putin’s origins, so I was hoping you would have some entertaining theory about him from one of your favourite webshites.
        
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        November 21, 2016 7:30pm
      - Reid
        
        These days I don’t bother explaining things to a closed mind mm. It’s always a waste of time and invariably negative not neutral since depending on how arrogant the fool is he often hallucinates he already knows the answer before he even skim reads the material’s headlines before braying it complete bollocks. That’s why these days I just toy with people like you. You’re like a kitten to me mm, just playing with the ball of wool I’m dangling. Rather clumsily I might add.
        
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        November 21, 2016 7:39pm
      - mikenmild
        
        i suppose we should be grateful for your cryptic utterances for the sheeple, really.
        Got any more predictions from the geopolitical inside track that you can share at the moment?
        
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        November 21, 2016 7:44pm
      - Reid
        
        I gave you a big one in my 6.15 mm.
        
        Unsurprisingly, you missed it.
        
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        November 21, 2016 8:10pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Putin’s a 3D printed virtual-human.
      
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      November 21, 2016 9:02pm
  - Gabby
    
    Is he your dark minion, Beelzebub Lord of Flies?
    
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    November 21, 2016 9:44pm
Reid

Hayek’s The Road to Serfdom described how personal freedoms are progressively eroded by the state in the name of the common good.

His warning is more associated with totalitarianism and dictatorships, than modern democracies, but the statist attitudes he warned about still apply today and lead to the same loss of personal freedom and increase of state control. In the main, the serfs are patient and tolerant of their masters, but in a democracy, the establishment behind the state risks being challenged. And that has happened twice this year, first with Brexit and now with Trump in America…

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-19/serfs-have-rebelled-europe-next

So Bannon said in a link I gave yesterday he wants to spend a trillion on infrastructure. He says with low interest rates worldwide it’s the prefect time to do that.

The trouble is, all the industry plant is owned by establishment players, all the raw materials are too. And it would be too easy for them to just keep throwing spanners.

Unless of course you counter that by making sure such tactics are exposed which means you must have a media willing to do that, and the current one certainly isn’t. So they must be broken, right? Is there another alternative?

No.

And it’s the perfect time to take that on too.

So by destroying Obamacare you reduce household overhead with significant affect in the target markets and by creating national infrastructure projects you get this new New Deal thing happening. By reducing the ME military force significantly you save that budgeted money and devote it to servicing the debt.

You go after the criminals in banking for what they did in 2008 and justly imprison many. That gives the justice aspect to the target market.

Then you run for your second term.
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November 21, 2016 7:28pm
- stephieboy
  
  Reid, so you and Tyler Dyden believe the that US 2008 – 16 was an example of Hayek Road to Serfdom?
  
  The factual basis for that claim ?
  
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  November 21, 2016 7:43pm
  - Reid
    
    No neither I nor Tyler said that stephie.
    
    I didn’t think you’d understand it.
    
    And I was right, you didn’t.
    
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    November 21, 2016 7:54pm
- mikenmild
  
  None of that will happen…
  
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  November 21, 2016 7:46pm
  - Reid
    
    No I know mm, I was saying: that could be their plan.
    
    The economy will screw them if so, and no-one will be more delighted to make that happen very vigorously indeed, than the establishment. Their ~~treason~~ “enthusiasm” being capable of being moderated only by the critical factor of how Trump’s relationship with Israel goes, of course.
    
    But that doesn’t change the possibility that that may be their plan.
    
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    November 21, 2016 7:56pm
nasska

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn’t. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn’t be. And what it wouldn’t be, it would. You see?”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
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November 21, 2016 7:56pm
- mikenmild
  
  “If you’ve done 6 impossible things this morning, why not round it off with breakfast at Milliways, the Restaurant at the End of the Universe?”
  – Douglas Adams
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:02pm
wiseowl

Joy oh joy!
Devoy is giving a serve to a Imam in Auckland!

What is he doing here?
Where is he from?
How did he get into New Zealand?
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November 21, 2016 7:58pm
- nasska
  
  ….”Devoy is giving a serve to a Imam in Auckland”….
  
  You’ll find that it was the funny tasting mushrooms she ate last night & that the fault lies not with the Imam but with white males as it always has.
  
  By tomorrow morning she’ll be as good as new.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:05pm
  - starboard
    
    LOL..Devoid, needs to de-tune her vibrating egg..a complete nobody.
    
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    November 21, 2016 11:23pm
    - Manolo
      
      She has been out of her depth and acting as a fool for years. The problem are the stupid politicians who appointed her.
      
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      November 22, 2016 6:28am
Nostradamus

Nasska:

Just quietly, I’m concerned about Reid, as his comments suggest that he has a very negative outlook on the world we live in today.

How could we cheer him up?
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November 21, 2016 8:00pm
- mikenmild
  
  Suggest that the End of Days is nigh?
  
  3 1
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  November 21, 2016 8:03pm
- nasska
  
  Reid may be a tit depressed as only found out how bad things really are when he was recently abducted by aliens.
  
  He asked, “Are you going to probe me?”.
  
  The alien replied, “Not tonight, I’ve got a headache”.
  
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  November 21, 2016 8:08pm
  - Reid
    
    Yes I was just thinking something like that would improve my day tremendously nasska. How prescient of you.
    
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    November 21, 2016 8:17pm
dad4justice

Is NZ the most corrupt country in the world Mr Speaker? I mean to say Cave Creek and Pike River prove it surely?
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November 21, 2016 9:21pm
- mikenmild
  
  Luckily we have some outstanding public institutions, like the Family Court, to provide examples of fairness and incorruptibility.
  
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  November 21, 2016 9:31pm
Reid

Obama says he ‘can’t pardon’ Snowden unless whistleblower goes to court

On the same logic, he can’t pardon Hillary, either.

Which is what I said was one of the possible motives for Comey telling everyone she wasn’t under investigation from the new batch.

So why did he say that, in his last foreign interview, when he didn’t have to, if he wanted to keep his options open?

https://www.rt.com/usa/367499-obama-snowden-pardon-interview/
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November 21, 2016 9:29pm
Manolo

Ron Paul and the corrupt MSM:
http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-reveals-hit-list-of-alleged-fake-news-journalists/

Former congressman Ron Paul revealed a list of “fake news” journalists he claims are responsible for “bogus wars” and lies about Hillary Clinton’s chances of winning the election. Journalists from CNN, the New York Times, and the Guardian are included.
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November 21, 2016 9:34pm
- mikenmild
  
  Ron Paul worried about fake news?
  http://www.technewsworld.com/rsstory/60120.htm
  
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  November 21, 2016 9:41pm
Reid

More on my 6.15

https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/800080836326326272

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/pentagon-and-intelligence-community-chiefs-have-urged-obama-to-remove-the-head-of-the-nsa/2016/11/19/44de6ea6-adff-11e6-977a-1030f822fc35_story.html
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November 21, 2016 9:42pm
Manolo

His disastrous government is coming to an end. Not a day too soon.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-returns-home-last-foreign-trip-084531137.html
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November 22, 2016 6:32am

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