General Debate 3 October 2016

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Manolo

Do as I say…
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2016/10/02/new-york-times-paid-no-taxes-2014/
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October 3, 2016 8:02am
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo,
  
  “Christie, Giuliani: If Trump Didn’t Pay Taxes, He’s ‘Genius ”
  
  “Donald Trump may or may not have paid federal income taxes for years after losing nearly $916 million. But if he did avoid paying taxes, he’s a “genius” at taking advantage of a loophole-ridden law, his supporters said Sunday…”
  
  http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/report-trump-losses-pay-taxes-years-42506432
  
  Are the owners of NYT “geniuses” ( if the Breitbart account is, in fact, true ) ?
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:16am
  - Manolo
    
    They are. Minimising one’s tax liabilities is a must do, dear stephieboy.
    
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    October 3, 2016 9:03am
  - Fletch
    
    Unlike Hillary, Trump still hasn’t done anything illegal. What businessman doesn’t take advantage of tax loopholes? I’m sure people in NZ do it all the time. Contrast this with Hillary’s favours-for-cash graft of the Clinton Foundation.
    
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    October 3, 2016 9:32am
    - stephieboy
      
      Fletch, exactly what has Hillary done that is indictable and illegal ?
      
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      October 3, 2016 10:40am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Stephieboy, as you well know, NOTHING that Hillary does is indictable, ever. She can commit perjury, defy subpoena’s, steal, whatever; and nobody gets to prosecute her. because Democrat….or something..
        
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        October 3, 2016 10:47am
  - Ross12
    
    Looks like Clinton does the same thing with taxes
    ( just like anyone , including Trump,should –go by the rules of the tax code)
    
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-02/clinton-campaign-admits-hillary-used-same-tax-avoidance-scheme-trump
    
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    October 3, 2016 1:13pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Actually I wonder how easy this would be to trace back to the IRS; dollars to dnuts that this isn’t some anonymous person as such but an IRS employee/Clinton supporter breaking trust. It’s not like they haven’t got form for this sort of thing…
  
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  October 3, 2016 1:50pm
big bruv

Who is that highly annoying fat chick (I’m assuming its a chick) on the new courier post advert?

Thanks to her I will never use that service.
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October 3, 2016 8:04am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  @big bruv
  
  Are you referring to Parris Goebel?
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parris_Goebel
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:10am
  - big bruv
    
    That looks like her. I note that Wiki is still taking the piss. It described what she does as dance, it looks more like somebody having a fit.
    
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    October 3, 2016 8:12am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Here’s her new video
      http://spy.nzherald.co.nz/spy-news/watch-parris-goebels-new-video/
      
      I’m off to make my brekkie… so I haven’t got time to watch it… do tell me if you enjoyed it.
      
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      October 3, 2016 8:18am
      - Nostalgia-NZ
        
        Loved it Maggie if only because it made twinkle toes Bruv spit out his porridge. I hope her crew perform at the next Aussie v All Blacks testsin a few weeks and shake their bums at bruv in the first row seats dressed as a kangaroo.
        
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        October 3, 2016 8:45am
      - Dave Mann
        
        That was one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen.
        
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        October 3, 2016 9:10am
      - Andrei
        
        Especially for you Maggy – though as I recall from a thread a while back some people who comment here may mistake these people for Australians 🙂
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsWE_jmMl8E
        
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        October 3, 2016 9:48am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Andrei
        
        Fabulous scenery, but I’d get a bit giddy with all that circling around each other.
        
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        October 3, 2016 10:00am
      - Jack5
        
        Given that Goebels is of Samoan descent, and that this was a German colony, and she has a German surname …
        
        Sure as hell ain’t the genes of Bach and Beethoven. But there was a famous German bullshitter of that name, with a slightly different spelling.
        
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        October 3, 2016 1:23pm
      - Don the Kiwi
        
        That was sickening – watched about quarter of it and nearly chundered
        
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        October 3, 2016 2:43pm
    - dave_c_
      
      Just mimmicking Hilary Clinton
      
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      October 3, 2016 9:37am
- cmm
  
  Parris Goebel is such a stupid “edgy” PC chopice for the ad.
  
  She’s a “rap choreographer” whatever that means with over 1 billion hits for a Justin Bieber music video.
  
  I struggle to see how the endorsement effect works. Your average NZPost user is not a rapper or a Justin Bieber fan.
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:16am
  - ross411
    
    Likely the employees involved have made it more about themselves, than the target market.
    
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    October 3, 2016 8:44am
  - Rich Prick
    
    The ads have a very Clapham Junction feel to them but I’m not entirely sure what jiggling your bits about has to do with postal services.
    
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    October 3, 2016 9:03am
- waikatogirl
  
  Thank you bb. Whatever the point of the Post advert is lost in the ‘art’. I don’t know what NZ Post dance/r is attempting to say.
  
  Contrast that with the dancer in the Cavalier Bremworth carpet ad. Beautifully done.
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:33am
  - AgentBallSack
    
    When your job is to sell empty boxes, you go with whatever some smart arse at the ad company says. Basically the ads say – we have nothing inside these boxes but we have to look like we’re doing something to retain customers. Here have another ad that has nothing to do with our core product.
    
    PS we no longer sell our core product and if you try and use us we will make it so bloody difficult you will give up.
    Signed Michael Cullen
    
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    October 3, 2016 9:35am
- Lance
  
  @big bruv
  She is world famous, is making more money than you with more followers.
  Aint life a bitch
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:56am
  - Kimbo
    
    Yes, and as the All Blacks already know when it comes to the irrascible big bruv, “haters gonna hate” 😉
    
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    October 3, 2016 11:05am
- dime
  
  yeah the ad is fucking gross.
  
  would it kill us to put a smoking hot chick on an ad for once?
  
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  October 3, 2016 10:03am
  - GoVege
    
    Some of us are tired of watching skinny chicks.
    We want to see real women!
    
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    October 3, 2016 12:36pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  They know that not all their customers have taste. For the ones that do, there is the ad with Charles Dance.
  
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  October 3, 2016 10:55am
  - AgentBallSack
    
    To be fair if that ad didn’t have the NZ Post logo at the end, I wouldn’t know what the hell he is trying to sell either. Is it haircuts? The Hipster lifestyle? An English accent? Shares in the warehouse whereeveryonegetsabargain?
    
    #farkedifiknow
    
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    October 3, 2016 11:22am
    - mikenmild
      
      NZ Post already did the ad for haircuts, with Charles Dance, if you recall. “You can”
      
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      October 3, 2016 11:33am
- GoVege
  
  You’re talking ’bout my favourite ad!
  That “chick” is cool.
  Women aren’t just a set of statistics.
  They can actually have personalities you know….
  
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  October 3, 2016 11:29am
  - RF
    
    Talking about gross ads. What about the overweight PI dancing with his daughter in a pub. I know it’s a Spark ad but it’s lost me…. almost as bad as Steve Hansen on the radio advertising Ray White Real Estate. I have not a clue what he is saying as he Mumbles.
    
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    October 3, 2016 12:42pm
oldpark

Latest from our broken Criminal Justice System. Pakistani import beats the hell out of his wife,for not holding his hand,when they were watching a movie. “Judge” Cunningham lets him off ,he gets away with it, as Judge feels there is no case to answer.The result, released without conviction. Finally common sense prevails, a higher court ,tells “Judge” Cunningham ,you stuffed up.Maybe the alleged hammer hitter,will once more have his day in court,or will our broken Criminal Justice System ,once more rule nothing suspicious here,move on.
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October 3, 2016 8:08am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  So cynical; he was undoubtedly an apprentice builder, and we all know what a shortage of builders there is at the moment, so the Judge discharged him without conviction as a conviction would have a massive impact on his future career that would be outweighed by the offence.
  
  Tui in there somewhere.
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:14am
- Dave Mann
  
  Poorly written with appalling grammar and punctuation.. but I get the point and wholly agree with your criticism of the judge here.
  
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  October 3, 2016 9:12am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Twat – how is that for grammar and punctuation?
    
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    October 3, 2016 9:54am
    - AgentBallSack
      
      Should’nt you have an exclamation mark preceding the “Twat”?
      
      eg.
      
      Twat!
      
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      October 3, 2016 10:03am
      - Dave Mann
        
        No, thats an exclamation mark FOLLOWING the word, not preceding it.
        
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        October 3, 2016 10:10am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Good point!
        
        On your suggested correction, I amend the comment to twat!
        
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        October 3, 2016 10:10am
      - AgentBallSack
        
        Whatever that rule is regarding criticizing spelling is on the internet I broke it twice.
        With “preceding” and an apostrophe in the wrong place in “shouldn’t”.
        
        Lucky I am not a pedant!
        
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        October 3, 2016 10:34am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @AgentBallSack 10:34
        
        Lucky I am not a pedant!
        
        Should be
        Luckily, I am not a pedant.
        
        As the word lucky/luckily is modifying the entire sentence, it needs to be in the adverbial form, not the adjectival.
        
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        October 3, 2016 10:59am
      - AgentBallSack
        
        @ Maggy,
        I put that in there for you 😉
        
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        October 3, 2016 11:18am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Tx ABS,
        it made a welcome break from my hip-hop practice.
        
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        October 3, 2016 11:32am
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Maggy Wassilieff & AgentBallSack
        
        @AgentBallSack 10:34
        
        Lucky I am not a pedant!
        
        Should be
        Luckily, I am not a pedant.
        
        As the word lucky/luckily is modifying the entire sentence, it needs to be in the adverbial form, not the adjectival.
        
        Ahem! Unlike others on this thread in deep denial, I will admit I am a pedant. Please also be aware, in case you were not already, that I am waging holy jihad on Kiwiblog against adverbs. 😉
        
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        October 3, 2016 11:39am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Kimbo
        
        well, you could have taken the trouble to state your jihad more clearly, precisely and exactly.
        Are you encompassing adverbial phrases and clauses in your jihad?
        And finally, for the moment, what is your position on adverbs inserted into copulative verbs and their complements?
        
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        October 3, 2016 12:14pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Maggy Wassilieff
        
        well, you could have taken the trouble to state your jihad more clearly, precisely and exactly.
        
        He he he. To be fair, while many adverbs are actually and really unnecessarily cluttering, my ire was raised by examples such as “truly”, “absolutely”, and “undoubtedly” when they are anything but. I described them last week as “adverbs acting as rhetorical schills” (that phrase is copyrighted, btw) and I have formulated Kimbo’s law (TM): in blogworld the validity of an argument is in direct inverse proportion to the excessive and unnecessary use of adverbs.
        
        Are you encompassing adverbial phrases and clauses in your jihad?
        
        True enough.
        
        And finally, for the moment, what is your position on adverbs inserted into copulative verbs and their complements?
        
        I genuinely am hardly in favour
        
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        October 3, 2016 1:03pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        If I wear my hijab nicely, may I use adverbial phrases now & again?
        
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        October 3, 2016 1:58pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Yes, unless you were to grievously transgress by splitting the infinitive…
        
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        October 3, 2016 2:15pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Kimbo
        
        Consign me to Waikato Uni if you ever catch me spitting on an illiterate.
        
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        October 3, 2016 3:42pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Based on my effort at 11:59am:
        
        …the Crown don’t have to continually re-prove their case…
        
        …it is my fate to boldly go there first!
        
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        October 3, 2016 3:45pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ @ Maggy Wassilieff
        
        But then I am the spooner who described Penny Bright as a cunning stunt 😉
        
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        October 3, 2016 3:52pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Kimbo
        
        I kinda thought my malapropism was infinitely nicer than your spoonerism.
        
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        October 3, 2016 6:40pm
- greybeard
  
  This judge has a history of going easy on crims.
  Here is an older instance:
  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10868985
  
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  October 3, 2016 10:29am
  - waikatogirl
    
    The attack by a young, fit and obviously thick, self-endolgent individual was cowardly, premeditated and just plain nasty. Attacks on the elderly, frail, disabled, children and any other vulnerable individual should automatically receive the maximum penalty for aggravated robbery, 14 years’ jail.
    
    When will the courts recognise the VICTIM as the main consideration and not the nasty individual taking whatever they want from whomever they want?
    
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    October 3, 2016 12:24pm
    - GoVege
      
      Too right.
      Letting this creep off will just let all his mates think they can half-kill their wives whenever they feel the urge.
      The victim had 3 young children.
      I thought it was supposed to be a serious crime to expose children to DV?
      They will grow up thinking violence against women is normal and repeat the pattern.
      And we mugs will pay for the fall-out.
      
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      October 3, 2016 12:42pm
- GoVege
  
  The guy had two wives, and apparently not in separate residences as Muslims are supposed to keep them.
  He was holding the new wife’s hand but not the first’s, and she had the nerve to ask him why.
  We not only let our new immigrants get away with bigamy, and probably trigamy and quadrigamy as well, but they are free to hammer their wives to a pulp as well.
  What a generous nation we are.
  
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  October 3, 2016 11:43am
- Chuck Bird
  
  I had Cunningham for a settlement conference. She is not very bright and the is an understatement. She cannot do basic arithmetic and has a very selective memory. I put a complaint in the the JCC and she denied what I said so the JCC of course accepted her word. The JCC a waste of money like the Commissioner for Children and other quangos.
  
  We will never have a decent justice system till bad judges can be sacked.
  
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  October 3, 2016 1:54pm
Paulus Gnome

Kevin Rudd has declared that ‘another country’ has urged him to stand for the top job at the Unnecessary Notions.

I can reveal exclusively to Kiwiblog readers that the ‘another country’ in none other than New Zealand.

This move to promote Rudd is cynical in the extreme insofar as with Clarks continuing fall in preference popularity for the position, having someone even more unpopular than Helun will prevent her worship coming last thus saving face (why we want to save a face that has launched a 1,000 bus rear ends is beyond me) and returning to Godzone to wreak further havoc.

A plan so cunning . . . . .
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October 3, 2016 8:09am
SPC

Dopplegangers.

The German voter of the 1930’s, Melanie Austin USA 2016 and Reid New Zealand.

The conspiracy theories are a dead giveaway.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/84883174/Finally-Someone-who-thinks-like-me
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October 3, 2016 8:10am
- mikenmild
  
  No doubt the Trumpista here will give this as another example of media bias against there hero. I wonder if there could be a balancing story, say of a Clinton supporter who thinks Trump is secretly gay, born in Germany, and worships Satan.
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:15am
  - GoVege
    
    I’m sure Trump’s forebears came from Germany.
    Think the name was originally “Tromp”.
    
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    October 4, 2016 12:15am
- Andrei
  
  WTF is that SPC?
  
  Crap from the Washington Post prominently displayed on stuff, reinforcing Hillary’s “déplorables” meme.
  
  There are 300 million people in the USA – how did the Washington post find those two to write about?
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:16am
  - SPC
    
    It is a profile of the pride of the white race nation.
    
    The underbelly of German politics of the 1930’s and the USA today.
    
    The conspiracy theory base to their world view and the strong leader that comes to save them.
    
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    October 3, 2016 8:22am
    - stephieboy
      
      The parallel universe that Melanie Austin and a typical Trump supporter inhabits ,
      
      “Like millions of others, she believed that President Barack Obama was a Muslim. And like so many she had gotten to know online through social media, she also believed that he was likely gay, that Michelle Obama could be a man, and that the Obama children were possibly kidnapped from a family now searching for them.”
      
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      October 3, 2016 8:32am
      - AgentBallSack
        
        Still not nearly as fucked up as a white person extolling the “virtues” of Islam and its associated horrors.
        
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        October 3, 2016 9:51am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Hey, it’s the Washington Post what do you expect? In other news, Hillary hates #BasementDwellers too. She really is the one uniting the US … against her.
    
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    October 3, 2016 8:35am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    There are 300 million people in the USA – how did they end up with these two (Clinton & Trump) to vote for?
    
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    October 3, 2016 9:03am
    - Andrei
      
      Well that is a very good question Maggy!
      
      And one I have asked myself many times
      
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      October 3, 2016 9:08am
      - mikenmild
        
        Much simpler to adopt the Russian system, where the winner can be reliably predicted in advance.
        
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        October 3, 2016 11:35am
- Fletch
  
  http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/10/02/washington-post-hit-piece-exploits-trump-supporter-who-was-in-a-hospital-for-mental-issues/
  
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  October 3, 2016 9:38am
  - mikenmild
    
    Well, what were they to do – try to find a Trump supported who didn’t have mental issues?
    
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    October 3, 2016 11:36am
Manolo

Brexit date is set:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37532364
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October 3, 2016 8:12am
- ross411
  
  Thanks Manolo. As someone who hasn’t really followed the progress of Brexit since the vote, the article represents Theresa May well. Even if she was against Brexit, she is following the will of the people, and telling those who are whining their loss isn’t fair to suck it up.
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:46am
Chuck Bird

I watched movie on Scott Watson last night. I was appalled that the taxpayer funded such a one sided doco. I think it is indisputable that the police acted badly with some of the witnesses. However, that does not say he is not guilty by any means.
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October 3, 2016 8:18am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I could only stand it until the 2nd ad break.
  Incredibly manipulative production.
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:31am
- slightlyrighty
  
  The maker of the doco did state that this is less about the guilt or innocence of Watson, but the inability of the police to follow valid lines of enquiry. The resulting conviction can be seen as unsafe as a result.
  
  I think the doco did show that the Mystery Ketch the police claim never existed, did in fact exist and the fact that multiple people contacted the police to that effect required that that line of investigation be persued. The fact that it was not, be that due to a lack of resources or a blinkered approach by detectives in charge of operation Tam, makes the conviction unsafe.
  
  The doco did present one point of view. Police were asked to respond, but did not do so. There is a mindset with police that once they fixate on a suspect, due to gut instinct or otherwise, they will interpret evidence with that in mind.
  
  They did so with Arthur Allen Thomas and David Dougherty, as well as Peter Ellis.
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:42am
  - Nostalgia-NZ
    
    Too true slightlyrightly all those kiwi yachties had no axe to grind, just answering the calls for information which Pope promptly ignored. I note that he also didn’t take part to put his side forward as to why so many kiwis were ‘wrong.’
    
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    October 3, 2016 8:50am
    - Gabby
      
      It’s a shame all those kiwi yachties with their kiwi know how couldn’t identify the boat.
      
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      October 3, 2016 8:59am
    - Paulus
      
      He has retired I believe.
      
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      October 3, 2016 11:02am
  - Gabby
    
    To be fair, their interpretation of the evidence they manufacture is generally spot on.
    
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    October 3, 2016 8:57am
    - sooty
      
      Apart from some exceptions!
      
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      October 3, 2016 11:42am
Scott Chris

So it turns out Trump lost nearly a billion dollars in 1995 (oh what a great businessman) which probably exempted him from paying any federal tax since that date.

What a fucking hero.

Donald Trump’s Campaign Isn’t Denying He Paid Zero In Federal Taxes Over The Years
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October 3, 2016 8:22am
- Rich Prick
  
  Depreciation, that great mystery of the balance sheet. Imagine how awesome it would be though, to be in a position to lose nearly $1b, and recover.
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:45am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I get the impression that Scott Chris thinks that the concept of losses carried forward for tax purposes is inherently unfair.
  If that is the way he thinks the possibility exists that I should pay his membership of the Green Party, for his awareness of fairness in an income tax system is just not there.
  I have 10% of a company that I am hoping like hell will eat up all its tax losses. After that I might get a fully imputed dividend.
  
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  October 3, 2016 9:01am
- tom hunter
  
  Forbes Magazine, Jan 2016:
  
  “For tax year 2014, The New York Times paid no taxes and got an income tax refund of $3.5 million even though they had a pre-tax profit of $29.9 million in 2014. In other words, their post-tax profit was higher than their pre-tax profit. The explanation in their 2014 annual report is,
  ‘The effective tax rate for 2014 was favorably affected by approximately $21.1 million for the reversal of reserves for uncertain tax positions due to the lapse of applicable statutes of limitations.’
  
  If you don’t think it took fancy accountants and tax lawyers to make that happen, read the statement again.
  
  Two legs bad. Four legs good.
  
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  October 3, 2016 9:01am
  - Scott Chris
    
    Whatever. It genuinely amazes me how your lot are contorting yourselves to accommodate this crook.
    
    Who said Republicans can’t be flexible?
    
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    October 3, 2016 10:09am
    - tom hunter
      
      Well if ever that was the pot calling the kettle “clean enough”.
      
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      October 3, 2016 10:19am
      - stephieboy
        
        tom hunter , so it’s ok to exploit loopholes or technicalities whether the NYT, WSJ, Fox or Donald Trump etc ?
        
        How the hell do you think US military expenditure so sacred to the GOP can be accommodated with this kind of attitude ?
        
        Credit Card ?
        
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        October 3, 2016 10:45am
  - Fletch
    
    It looks like Hillary also avoided paying tax, using the exact same loopholes Trump did.
    I bet the media doesn’t call her out in it though.
    
    http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/10/02/hillary-clinton-avoided-taxes-way-trump/
    
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    October 3, 2016 2:31pm
  - cha
    
    The New York Times paid no taxes
    
    Bugger, The New York Times will never be elected president now!.
    /
    
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    October 3, 2016 2:48pm
- dime
  
  lol shouldnt you be making your 25 year old chick boss her coffee??
  
  we cant all be as awesome as you scott.
  
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  October 3, 2016 10:04am
- starboard
  
  You must know all about depreciation scottchris as you own a car grooming business. Don’t try and tell us you don’t cook the books a little.
  
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  October 3, 2016 2:09pm
slightlyrighty

I watched the Scott Watson doco on One last night.

Is anyone else disturbed by the police decision to investigate the case on the basis that the distinctive Ketch simply did not exist?

The number of people that this doco found that not only identified the ketch that the police said did not exist, who also saw two young people matching the description of Smart and Hope, who also contacted the police only to be told that the ketch that they saw, and in some cases circled, or stood by the side of when tied up, did not exist.

The actions of the police in interrogating witnesses seemed very heavy handed. I feel a sense of unease about the treatment of Scott Watson this morning, and a sense of dread that someone who owns a Ketch, has got away with murder.
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October 3, 2016 8:23am
- Nostalgia-NZ
  
  Of course people are disturbed, particularly those that looked over and admired the Ketch, some indeed circling it to get a better look – for them it would be like viewing a gold plated Rolls Royce only to later have an irate neighbour tell them they imagined it. Those Kiwis weren’t liars and weren’t mistaken, they went on the show and Pope hid away.
  
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  October 3, 2016 9:19am
  - Dave Mann
    
    I haven’t seen the programme yet, but as an ex-boatie I find it unbelievable that fellow sailors would get the details of an interesting boat wrong… or even worse, describe a ketch as a sloop or vice versa.
    
    People who are into boats just don’t make mistakes like this, nor are they normally disinterested in other craft when they see them in an anchorage or sailing past.
    
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    October 3, 2016 10:31am
    - mara
      
      Did anyone take a photo? I would have done.
      
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      October 3, 2016 11:08am
      - pentwig
        
        Yes Mara
        The police were even given a video of it.
        
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        October 3, 2016 11:31am
- Kimbo
  
  Is anyone else disturbed by the police decision to investigate the case on the basis that the distinctive Ketch simply did not exist?
  
  No. Not only is the premise of your question presumptuous, but it overlooks that the crucial evidence was Olivia Hope’s hair on the Tiger blanket from the Blade.
  
  As the “documentary” briefly mentioned in passing, the possibility it was accidentally/deliberately transferred by the police, or even that she had brushed up against Watson that night at Furneaux Lodge were put to the jury to consider. They decided otherwise. So the onus of proof has always been on Watson to prove otherwise. hat’s how the justice system works. Juries decide verdicts, not Monday Morning quarterbacks.
  
  Most likely the jury quickly discounted the “prison informants” testimony – as any jury worth its salt would do. Everything else, including eye witness accounts of a ketch vs a sloop, etc. are ultimately distractions by Watson apologists who don’t like the fact those hairs shouldn’t have been on his yacht.
  
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  October 3, 2016 11:14am
  - mikenmild
    
    I think you reversed the onus of proof there. Nevertheless, the hair was a vital piece of evidence.
    
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    October 3, 2016 11:39am
    - Kimbo
      
      Nope. Not once he was convicted.
      
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      October 3, 2016 11:41am
      - mikenmild
        
        No. The burden of proof only applies to the prosecution in the original trial. On appeal, the argument has to be that the trial was legally flawed in some way, unless there is new evidence that was not available at the trial.
        So it was the prosecution’s job to prove that the hair came from the victim and could only have been present on Watson’s yacht through his actions. Watson has never had to prove a negative. I don’t know whether any p[art of his appeal related to alleged fresh evidence about the hair though.
        
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        October 3, 2016 11:47am
      - Kimbo
        
        Yes, the onus was originally on the prosecution. And for appeal purposes, “new evidence” can also mean that existing evidence is discredited, like the cartridge cases found in the Crewe’s garden.
        
        Just as with the Arthur Allan Thomas case, Watson needs to show that the one compelling piece of evidence that placed one of the victim’s on his boat is flawed. It is the sine qua non of the successful conviction. Hence, no matter the legal niceties, from a practical point of view the onus of proof is now on him. The verdict currently stands and the Crown don’t have to continually re-prove their case. Faffing around over recanted prison cell mate testimony or conflicting eye-witness accounts of boat descriptions does nothing to eliminate the “smoking gun”.
        
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        October 3, 2016 11:59am
- Kimbo
  
  The actions of the police in interrogating witnesses seemed very heavy handed. I feel a sense of unease about the treatment of Scott Watson this morning, and a sense of dread that someone who owns a Ketch, has got away with murder.
  
  What a lot of mincing milquetoast hand-wring! Two kids were almost certainly dead. I would expect the police to be vigourous in their questioning of witnesses and interrogation of possible suspects. If those concerned didn’t like it they had the right to request the presence of a lawyer.
  
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  October 3, 2016 11:23am
  - GoVege
    
    I’m sure they are dead…dumped way out at sea by the criminals on board that “phantom” ketch.
    While poor old Watson takes the rap on zero evidence.
    
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    October 3, 2016 11:34am
    - Stars And Stripes
      
      Scott Watson was arrested for the murders on 15 June 1998, two weeks before his 27th birthday. He had 48 prior convictions,[7][8] mainly from when he was a teenager, for burglary, theft, cannabis offences, two of possessing an offensive weapon, and one of assault when he was 16. He had been imprisoned for two short periods in 1989 and 1990.
      
      Poor old Scott Watson ah!
      Hard being a good guy these days.
      
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      October 3, 2016 11:57am
      - GoVege
        
        He was a kid when he had those convictions.
        In any case, nobody deserves to go to prison for 17 years on the pathetic evidence of a few hairs in a bag with holes in it!
        And the police neglecting to follow other lines of enquiry, and actually ignoring multiple eye witness accounts.
        
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        October 3, 2016 4:13pm
  - Morrissey
    
    You have obviously never been abused by the police, Kimbo.
    
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    October 3, 2016 11:44am
    - Kimbo
      
      …and why am I surprised you would imply you have been – or you are appointed to plead on behalf of those who have.
      
      Put it this way, Morrissey…that possibility was put to the jury, and they decided, in Watson’s case, it didn’t apply. So they made the decision. Everyone else, you and me included, only has…opinions.
      
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      October 3, 2016 12:15pm
      - Morrissey
        
        I did not imply that at all. I merely inferred from your smug and complacent certitude, that you have had no experience of being picked on, bullied and persecuted by police.
        
        Your observation about you having nothing more than opinions to offer is correct.
        
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        October 3, 2016 12:26pm
      - starboard
        
        You obviously attract Police attention Morrissey . Im not surprised by that with your average attitude, you would fail the attitude test as soon as you opened your big mouth to a copper. Hence all the beatings I’m certain you would have received from Plod.
        
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        October 3, 2016 2:13pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    So Kimbo, why didn’t they ask the owners of the Ketch any questions at all ? None, zip, nada. It’s not like they didn’t have plenty of evidence to identify the yacht in question, they had plenty, but they wilfully refused to do anything. To me that at least suggests that the fix was in, Watson was guilty, it just took some contaminated evidence to fix that on him.
    
    If the hair is vital why did it not get discovered on the first examination. Why did it get discovered only after samples of that hair were sent and dispersed (there was a hole in the evidence bag) within that laboratory ? Pretty convenient I’d say.
    
    Juries are often reluctant to overlook foresnic evidence despite the fact that a lot of it is in fact extremely dodgy. Just look at the FBI’s record with this (in, for two examples, hair comparison evidence and bite analysis), thousands of cases decided on the basis of forensic testimony that had no actual basis in science. Accepted because it was said to be “scientific”.
    
    Watson may be guilty, but it looks to me a lot like he was stitched up on the evidence as presented.
    
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    October 3, 2016 2:00pm
    - Nostalgia-NZ
      
      Yes Ed Snack Kimbo conveniently forgets the first searches, also that the hairs were not found on the Blade, but rather on a blanket taken off the Blade by police. Contamination was possible and planting, along with innocent transfer from either sister because the testing confirmed a maternal link not a singular identification. I agree also that it would be a standard police practice to investigate other suspects in any event, but particularly in a case where the information was coming from the boating fraternity with information (and a video I read above) about a Ketch, the sighting of which burnt deeply into their memories – that carries more weight than a situation where the safe custody chain of evidence may have been breached.
      
      Kimbo says the Jury would have discarded the secret witnesses only someone with his god-like omniscience would know that. To me the florid stories giving in fine detail would have hit home with some on the Jury.
      
      On bite evidence you mention there has been a recommendation for it to be thrown out in the States, and a higher level of practical scrutiny, procedure, capability on DNA testing – hairs included.
      
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      October 3, 2016 5:16pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Nostalgia-NZ
        
        Kimbo conveniently forgets the first searches, also that the hairs were not found on the Blade, but rather on a blanket taken off the Blade by police
        
        A fact that was told to the jury. So, bearing in mind “I don’t agree with the verdict” is not the basis for an appeal, you’ve added nothing new. Yet again.
        
        Kimbo says the Jury would have discarded the secret witnesses only someone with his god-like omniscience would know that. To me the florid stories giving in fine detail would have hit home with some on the Jury.
        
        I love it. You sarcastically use the phrase “god-like omniscience” to criticise a point of view you disagree with, yet your own god-like omniscience – “To me the florid stories giving in fine detail would have hit home with some on the Jury” – is fully applicable 😉 Why?
        
        Here’s why I reckon it would have been quickly discounted by the Watson jury:
        
        1. The inherent lack of credibility of the witnesses – they were in prison! And the judge and Watson’s lawyer would have instructed the jury to bear that in mind.
        
        2. One of them admitted on the stand that he received material benefit from giving the testimony. That makes his testimony even more suspect.And the judge and Watson’s lawyer would have instructed the jury to bear that in mind.
        
        3. Ever since the David Tamihere case the problems and potential pitfalls of cell mate confessions have been well explained and understood among the general public. Unlike you, most people have “common sense” and can be relied upon to ascribe sufficient weight to evidence, including the likely trustworthiness of prison stool-pigeons.
        
        But if you wanna say that deliberation-process is likely to be out-trumped in the minds of a jury by (to quote you) “florid stories”, go for it. Just out of interest, and as per David Garrett’s previous line of questioning, was it “florid stories” that saw you convicted of serious charges involving the loss of life…twice?
        
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        October 3, 2016 6:27pm
  - GoVege
    
    Really?
    I recall one of the main witnesses, the water taxi driver, was getting extremely worried they were going to pin it on him!
    
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    October 3, 2016 4:15pm
    - Kimbo
      
      All the more reason Guy Wallace should have asked for a lawyer!
      
      Nothing of substance – or lack of it – that has been discussed here, or on the TV last night was not put to the jury.
      
      But, hey, some people don’t like the verdict? Yeah, sure, let’s just reverse the dictates of the justice system to assuage the fact that they are (to quote slightlyrighty) “disturbed” and have a “sense of unease”. Yeah, that’s the way to run a justice system. Trial by media, selective cherry-picking of the facts by apologists, with none of the checks and restrictions that apply under good juris prudence. And off course the media have no financial interest whatsoever in the “miscarriage of justice” line. Sure, if the evidence exists, as with Teina Pora or Arthur Thomas, then put it to an appeal.
      
      And while we’re at it, let’s apply that approach to running the country, too. Bugger the mandate issued at elections. Anyone can just reverse that decision as and when it suits them.
      
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      October 3, 2016 4:24pm
      - slightlyrighty
        
        The “unease” I feel stems from the fact that the police have, in this case, been content only to look at evidence that suits their own hypothesis to the exclusion of other evidence that could lead to a different conclusion.
        
        Why does this worry me? Simply put, convictions gained from such a method are manifestly unsafe. A prime example is David Bain. The police hypothesis was that Bain killed his family, except his father, did his paper round, and ambushed his father in order to pin the murder on him. David asserted that his father committed all the killings, but in only treating David as the subject, and not Robin, no evidence was collected that could prove that Robin did or did not commit the crime, such as testing for GSR. If the police could have proved Robin did not carry out the murders, then David conviction would have been safe.
        
        That’s why when defence lawyers are pilloried for representing the likes of Clayton Weatherston, I have a facepalm moment. The robust defence makes the convictions safe.
        
        The police did a half arsed job, resulting in a half arsed conviction.
        
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        October 3, 2016 4:49pm
      - Kimbo
        
        @ slightlyrighty
        
        …only treating David as the subject, and not Robin, no evidence was collected that could prove that Robin did or did not commit the crime…
        
        Not so, and a typically easy claim for Monday morning quarterbacks who face no scrutiny or consequences to make. Initially the police thought it was murder-suicide, but then, as all the physical evidence against David Bain began to accumulate and pointed in only one direction (refer to Bryan Bruce), their enquiries lead away from Robin.
        
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        October 3, 2016 5:04pm
    - Kimbo
      
      A good example of the effects of trial by media: Ask the average person with just a passing knowledge of the case about Robin Bain and you’ll be surprised how many think it is a fact, or at least very likely he was sleeping with his daughter, Laniet.
      
      So a piece of hear-say from a “witness” who was soooo useless, he failed to respond to a summons to appear at either trial because “the police were picking on him” (yeah, aren’t they always doing that!) , which was rightly excluded from David Bain’s first trial got into the public domain, and eventually did its work. Well done, Joe Karam.
      
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      October 3, 2016 4:46pm
- Morrissey
  
  I thought the documentary was superbly done; however, I was irritated by the narrator (Chris Gallavin) saying that he was “not trying to suggest that the police stitched Watson up” and, later, that they were “good honest cops”.
  
  Far from being a “good honest cop”, Rob Pope had been involved in the persecution and imprisonment of Peter Ellis a few years earlier.
  
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  October 3, 2016 11:41am
  - Jack5
    
    Morrissey, the police weren’t to blame for framing Peter Ellis.
    
    The accusers were a bunch of Lefties, perhaps including some with psychiatric issues, swept up in the hysteria that was going on in several countries. There were parallel cases in America and elsewhere.
    
    The judicial system accepted the stories of little children that became increasingly fanciful, down to touches such as secret tunnels, and suggestions police and the Masonic lodge were involved. The reports became more fanciful as children were interrogated. They seemed to accept adults’ questioning as the truth.
    
    Don Brash has been the only prominent politician prepared to try to take the Ellis case stain off our justice system.
    
    Putting Peter Ellis on the same level as a bunch of convicted murderers is nonsensical.
    
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    October 3, 2016 1:37pm
    - Morrissey
      
      Jack5, I’ll deal with each of your points in turn….
      
      1.) Morrissey, the police weren’t to blame for framing Peter Ellis.
      
      Yes they were, as you would know if you had read Lynley Hood’s magisterial study of the case.
      
      2.) The accusers were a bunch of Lefties,
      
      The accusers were in fact a bunch of extreme right wing “Christians” who hated Peter Ellis for being gay. True enough, some of the lunatics who collaborated with these “Christians” were “Lefties”, who are of course quite capable of persecuting people who are designated for destruction.
      
      3.) perhaps including some with psychiatric issues, swept up in the hysteria that was going on in several countries. There were parallel cases in America and elsewhere.
      
      You are correct. It was an unholy alliance of right wing “Christians”, so-called “feminists” and crazed psychiatric activists like Miriam Saphira and Karen Zelas.
      
      4.) The judicial system accepted the stories…
      
      It was not “the judicial system” but some members of the police, including Rob Pope, who decided that Peter Ellis was a tempting target.
      
      5.) …of little children that became increasingly fanciful, down to touches such as secret tunnels, and suggestions police and the Masonic lodge were involved.
      
      They also said he killed a child, and he had a pet giraffe in his infernal underground lair.
      
      6.) The reports became more fanciful as children were interrogated. They seemed to accept adults’ questioning as the truth.
      
      It wasn’t questioning, it was bloody-minded, orchestrated feeding of crazy ideas to bewildered children.
      
      7.) Don Brash has been the only prominent politician prepared to try to take the Ellis case stain off our justice system.
      
      Indeed he was. I respect him for that. What a contrast with the statements of the Children’s Commissioners Laurie O’Reilly and Roger McClay and of politicians such as John Banks, and especially Phil Goff, who as Lynley Hood quipped, had “a mind so open that his brain fell out.”
      
      8.) Putting Peter Ellis on the same level as a bunch of convicted murderers is nonsensical.
      
      Peter Ellis is indeed in the same category as the convicted murderers Teina Pora, Arthur Thomas and Scott Watson—i.e., he was stitched up by the police.
      
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      October 3, 2016 6:03pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    @Morrisey
    
    I was unaware that Rob Pope was involved in the Peter Ellis case.
    
    On the “Seeking Justice for Peter Ellis” site that lists the main players in the Peter Ellis saga, there is no mention of Pope.
    http://www.peterellis.org.nz/people/index.htm
    
    Can you provide any further info?
    
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    October 3, 2016 5:44pm
    - Morrissey
      
      Actually, Maggy, I was wrong to accuse Rob Pope of being involved in the stitching up of Peter Ellis. I was thinking of his role in the continual persecution of Peter Ellis after his release. Just to taunt Ellis, the police often call him into the station, and harass him at his home, as mentioned in this 2002 Sunday Star Times report….
      
      Detective Inspector Rob Pope, the officer in charge of Canterbury CIB, would not confirm police visited Ellis and wouldn’t comment on speculation about links between investigations and the high profile of Hood’s book clearing Ellis of wrongdoing.
      
      http://www.peterellis.org.nz/2002/2002-0721_SundayStarTimes_JustSortItOutEllisTellsSexCaseCops.htm
      
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      October 3, 2016 6:27pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Tx Morrissey
        
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        October 3, 2016 6:36pm
- Gabby
  
  What a shame the ketch just vanished and never seems to have had a name.
  
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  October 3, 2016 1:07pm
- Jack5
  
  Anyone-else sick of this informal re-trying and re-trying of old murder cases?
  
  Bring back capital punishment I say.
  
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  October 3, 2016 1:29pm
  - stephieboy
    
    Too bad if it leads to the hanging of someone innocent like Arthur Alan Thomas ?
    
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    October 3, 2016 1:39pm
    - Jack5
      
      Well, Stephie, maybe we should just not put anyone in prison in case they’re innocent.
      
      Prisons are full of innocent people. That’s what they think inside.
      
      Or, or, or … perhaps we should hang those convicted of murder, as is the the practice in Stephiestan.
      
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      October 3, 2016 2:24pm
Happychappy

I heard this morning on the hub that the Waikato has the highest number of deaths in the NZ road toll,well after yesterdays performance of drivers in wet conditions through Huntly you would understand why.In these terrible conditions where you had you wipers going on the maximum and some water up to the bottom of your car door and slips as a hazard also drivers were still overtaking people that were aware of these conditions and putting innocent peoples live’s a risk.I was astounded at the stupidity of Waikato drivers yesterday
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October 3, 2016 8:23am
- holysheet
  
  They wern’t drivers from the waikato. Jaffas in a hurry to get back to that cessspit they call home.
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:32am
  - Happychappy
    
    I see i must have upset one of the hoons already as it did not take long to get a down tick when talking about idiots that put family’s lives at risk
    
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    October 3, 2016 8:40am
    - waikatogirl
      
      Happychappy, its a good point though. It is difficult to know how you knew they were drivers from the Waikato?
      
      We know about driving around bends in the Waikato, not so much some of the city drivers on their way to somewhere. However, the cavalier drivers could have been Huntly locals!
      
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      October 3, 2016 8:56am
      - Happychappy
        
        Point taken but the death total is taken from accidents in the Waikato not people living in the district and yes maybe some were from Huntly. IF people had seen the conditions of rain and dangerous hazards you would maybe change your view. We happened to be visited our daughter and otherwise would not have been on the road
        
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        October 3, 2016 9:11am
- Griff
  
  lets guess happy
  You were crawling along at about 30kph on the open road intimidated by the rain and find it surprising that others dont feel as intimidated as you.
  If you are doing less than the flow of traffic pull over and let those behind pass safely . This is the LAW .If you dont means you are the one putting others at risk.
  If for any reason I am holding up another person going about their business I pull over as soon as possible and let them pass . Even if they are doing well over the limit. I just dont like obstructing people for no reason.
  Many think what speed they are comfortable at is the only one allowed.
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:46am
  - ross411
    
    We have passing lanes throughout a good part of the country, at regular intervals. With them allowing regular passing, people should do what they feel is safe. However, when they speed up as they reach the passing areas and slow down again as they leave.. that’s just selfish shit.
    
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    October 3, 2016 8:49am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Be warned if you head to Gizzy…we have passing bays…. blink and you’ve missed them.
      Bit of a trick for city slickers, expecting a few 100m -long passing lane.
      
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      October 3, 2016 9:18am
  - Happychappy
    
    As i was not driving as my wife was and the road was a road with limited passing places and slips making it more like one lane and deep water in places i don’t care whether you are Sterling Moss you should not be passing in weather condition that put other peoples lives in danger
    
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    October 3, 2016 9:00am
    - waikatogirl
      
      happychappy, If you let us know initially where you were, it may have made a difference to your story. I initially imagined you crawling along the motorway, but perhaps instead it was around the road between Taupiri Mountain and the river. If so, I agree it be best to take precautions.
      Still, holysheet is right, the drivers you were complaining about could easily have been Aucklander’s on their way home…
      
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      October 3, 2016 9:08am
Stars And Stripes

Mum died, now kids face homelessness
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11721025

Headline seems pretty bad but as usual once you read the story it involves some white trash family who are getting booted out for the typical shit of not paying rent, trouble with the police and other normal stuff for these kinds of people.
Sympathy factor about zero I think.
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October 3, 2016 8:28am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Silly name syndrome with predicable results
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:54am
- Rich Prick
  
  Does the Herald actively seek out these not-so “hard luck” stories? Today’s appears to have been brought to us by the letter K.
  
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  October 3, 2016 9:14am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Special K
    
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    October 3, 2016 10:18am
G152

Isn’t it time boxings current hero started to fight offshore ?
I mean they’d have higher returns and more revenue and the dives would be better orchestrated
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October 3, 2016 8:32am
Simon

Article 50 in March. Utterly fucks the German election.

The people are finally winning.
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October 3, 2016 9:13am
EAD

Very informative YouTube clip from Brother Nathanael on “the biggest scam the world has ever seen” ~ Central Banking and fiat money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hneVEmzg36E
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October 3, 2016 9:19am
- stephieboy
  
  EAD , a very informative Storm front( White Pride World Wide ) condemns Brother Nathanael for being a biological Jew ,
  ‘
  https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1033258/
  
  LOL !
  
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  October 3, 2016 9:26am
RF

Remember when Goofy was trying to be PM. He dyed his hair, rode a motorcycle and walked with a slow western type gunslingers deliberate swagger.

Lately when I have seen him I could swear he is standing for a National seat. Blue street advertising, blue tie, dresses well.

Poor bugger has an identity crisis.
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October 3, 2016 9:25am
- Grant
  
  On his billboards he looks like a dyspeptic version of Mr. Humphries from “Are you being served?”
  G
  
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  October 3, 2016 1:35pm
tom hunter

Since I dumped in a couple of Trump hit pieces yesterday, it seems only fair to stick Hillary with one – and, yes, the MSM.

Matt Welch writes for Reason magazine (libertarian) – but he also gets to write guest articles for CNN. He recently took the opportunity to stick it to his CNN employers by noting the difference in coverage of foreign policy “gaffes” by Libertarian Party POTUS candidate, Johnson, and those of Hillary: The media’s hypocrisy on Gary Johnson. But the piece also contained the following comments, which I thought very appropriate when I recall the endless MSM screaming about the British inquiries into the Iraq invasion and what that meant for the evil GW:

Two weeks ago, the foreign affairs select committee of the British House of Commons released a detailed, damning report about one of Hillary Clinton’s signature achievements as secretary of state: The 2011 US/UK/French-led military intervention into Moammar Gadhafi’s Libya, which was sold as a necessity to prevent (in President Barack Obama’s words) “a massacre that would have reverberated across the region.”

“This policy,” the conservative-led committee concluded, “was not informed by accurate intelligence. In particular, the [British] Government failed to identify that the threat to civilians was overstated and that the rebels included a significant Islamist element. By the summer of 2011, the limited intervention to protect civilians had drifted into an opportunist policy of regime change. That policy was not underpinned by a strategy to support and shape post-(Gadhafi) Libya. The result was political and economic collapse, inter-militia and inter-tribal warfare, humanitarian and migrant crises, widespread human rights violations, the spread of (Gadhafi) regime weapons across the region and the growth of ISIL in North Africa.”

You might think that a deeply sourced report from an allied government about trumped-up intelligence leading to yet another destabilizing Middle East war might make some headlines in the country where the administration’s leading proponent of said intervention is poised to become the next leader of the free world.

But you would be wrong.

Muhahahahahahahha.

Yes, if you expected the MSM not to be kneejerk Democrat supporters you would be very wrong.

Aside from a handful of mostly ideological outlets, the US news media declined to even note that the Democratic presidential nominee suffered a comprehensive rebuke to her oft-repeated assertion that Libya represented American “smart power at its best.” As The Atlantic delicately put it, “The British public has been engaged in a debate about war that has been largely absent from the U.S. presidential election.”

Smart power. Always loved that one.

Oh and die, MSM, die!
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October 3, 2016 9:43am
- Ed Snack
  
  Tom,pissing in the wind mate. Hillary will get to be POTUS and all will be right with world ! (TM for MSM media and Democrat operatives who hope to get on the payroll of the Clinton Foundation AND the State Department simultaneously one day – so they can fly over the “flyover country” and call it’s inhabitants deplorable while giggling into their champagne living it up off the back of the taxes from such folk).
  
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  October 3, 2016 10:57am
  - tom hunter
    
    Oh, I know. Only bankruptcy will fix this.
    
    The good news is that Hillary appears to be so damaged as a crook and a liar that she won’t be that effective a POTUS, especially on domestic policy. SCOTUS is possibly fucked for a generation, and her Nixonian qualities may actually help in foreign policy.
    
    But the bully pulpit? Pfft. People are going to tune her out faster than any President in history. Besides that I’m looking forward to the MSM carrying out another four years of defending the indefensible on multiple issues. There’s more than a few Obama chickens coming home to roost, post 2017. Watching Hillary handle those is going to be fun.
    
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    October 3, 2016 11:16am
rightoverlabour

Could somebody define “Middle Class”? Clinton thinks it’s this: Quote; “Clinton stood by her pledge to not raise taxes on the middle class and said that means anyone making under $250,000. She likes that number because that’s what “President Obama had adhered to and something my husband adhered to.”” http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/out-touch-millionaire-hillary-struggles-define-middle-class

Wonder if she likes other things her husband has “adhered to”???
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October 3, 2016 10:08am
Manolo

Oh dear, stephieboy despairs:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37528325

Hungarians who voted in a referendum on Sunday have overwhelmingly rejected mandatory EU migrant quotas, the national election office has said.
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October 3, 2016 10:31am
starboard

“work-and-income-3k-to-christchurch-scheme-abused-by-more-200-recipients”

Gee, never saw that coming.
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October 3, 2016 10:32am
AgentBallSack

Given the choice of live streaming Joes fight from Sky in England illegally or paying $40 to watch the bullshit Duco call boxing, I did neither and will continue to do so since watching black guys beat up fat snivelling white guys is free most weekends in Wellington.
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October 3, 2016 10:40am
Paul Marsden

re Scott Watson:
For any of those who have taken the time to read all of the police file notes that are available in the public domain regarding this case, they make for chilling reading. It is crystal clear that Watson (and for reasons not yet in the public domain but known to the police, prosecutors, some members of the judiciary and some Ministers of the Crown), that Watson and Watson alone, was deliberately targeted for been responsible for the disappearance of Olivia Hope and Ben Smart.

The police file notes lack any substance, are flaky and repeatedly show that evidence from any quarter suggesting the involvement of any others in the couple’s disappearance, was to be ignored and discarded. The irony is, is that if one has a knowledge of the environment of the various events of that night (as many yachties do), then the police notes almost suggest to the reader, that Watson could not have been responsible for the couple’s disappearance and certainly not in the way that the police and the prosecution claim.

Later, and in a most unusual encounter, Paul Davison entered into a series of written communications with Keith Hunter, in what appears to be an attempt to defend the prosecution’s bizarre claim of ” the two trip theory” which, if one closely looks at times, tides, distance of lodge from wharf /moored vessels etc and witnesses accounts, was impossible. It is my view that this matter sits uneasy with Davison and was behind his unusual interaction with Hunter. It is bewildering that such an intelligent individual of his ilk could entertain such nonsense and I wonder what advice his father, the wonderful and respected jurist Sir Ronald Davison would give him, if still alive?
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October 3, 2016 10:55am
- RF
  
  Paul Marsden. Makes no difference if Scott Watson was guilty or innocent.
  
  To keep it simple. It was his turn to go down.
  
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  October 3, 2016 12:53pm
- stephen2d
  
  He is guilty as a fucking sin and he knows it. Scum can rot in jail.
  
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  October 3, 2016 6:58pm
tom hunter

Wel, well, well. Pace Lily Allen, it seems that the Secretary of State, John Kerry (otherwise known as “Lurch”), is having a little whine and a moan off the record after being confronted at the UN by some Syrian civilians demanding to know why the USA is not doing more to help them against Assad, Kerry: ‘I Lost the Argument’ for Using Force in Syria:

“I think you’re looking at three people, four people in the administration. I lost the argument. I’ve argued for the use of force. I’m the guy who stood up and announced that we’re going to attack Assad for the use of weapons,” Kerry is heard telling the Syrian attendees, referring to internal deliberations within the administration of President Barack Obama that followed Assad’s use of chemical weapons in 2013.

Kerry also faulted Congress for failing to support such a retaliatory strike, saying, “The bottom line is that Congress refused even to vote to allow that.”

Whah!

There’s a whole lot of things to unpack from this.

First, it rather puts the kybosh on the whole conspiracy theory that evil Obama and company have plotted and driven the whole Syrian catastrophe from the start. Just utter bullshit, unless you think that $500 million in small arms, clothing and Meals-Ready-To-Eat can compare with the billions per month being poured into the war by Iran and Russia, and unless you think that Kerry (John Kerry!!!!) is smart enough to be this good a liar.

Second, as the article points out, Congress was not keen at the time (led by “Tea Party extremists” who’d had enough of foreign wars), in the wake of Iraq and Libya – but Presidents are supposed to lead, not follow.

Third, this is a weak excuse, given that Obama was more than happy to genuflect to the UN and “R2P” and give his own Congress the finger in the Libyan attacks. Why not with Syria? Did he finally learn the lesson he claimed he’d learned from Bush in Iraq, “stupid wars” and all that?

Fourth, WTF do Middle Eastern Arabs want? They screamed about Saddam Hussein for two decades and how “somebody” should get rid of him, then they went on a massive screamfest about how awful the invasion was – aided and abetted by Westerners opposed to the war. Now they’re screaming about how the US and the West has not saved them from Assad – but I’ll bet if the West did get further involved there would be years of Western shitstorming about “Imperialism” and all that other crap.
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October 3, 2016 10:55am
Morrissey

Glasgow Celtic recently almost beat Manchester City. But it’s their fans that are the real heroes….

http://deadspin.com/uefa-fines-celtic-over-fans-flying-the-palestinian-flag-1787255552
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October 3, 2016 10:58am
- stephieboy
  
  And if fans at another stadium waved the Isreali or even say the Ukraine flags what then ?
  
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  October 3, 2016 11:07am
  - Morrissey
    
    I doubt that people waving flags in support of Israel or the illegal coup in Ukraine would have the intellectual and moral force of the Celtic fans.
    
    I warmly commend you to read the following….
    http://irishpost.co.uk/blog-why-celtic-fans-were-right-to-fly-the-palestine-flag/
    
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    October 3, 2016 11:26am
    - stephieboy
      
      Morriessy , what illegal coup ?
      
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      October 3, 2016 12:40pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      It’s obvious that too much morris dancing makes you mad.
      
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      October 3, 2016 2:15pm
stephieboy

tom hunnter,

“.. They screamed about Saddam Hussein for two decades and how “somebody” should get rid of him, then they went on a massive screamfest about how awful the invasion was – aided and abetted by Westerners opposed to the war. ..”?

Hyperbole and rhetoric aside when did Middle Eastern Arabs actually “scream” for the 2003 invasiion of Iraq ?
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October 3, 2016 11:02am
- All_on_Red
  
  Not sure there was any screaming, maybe there was. The Iranian Ayotollahs seem to like a bit of screaming but anyway, judging by this article the middle eastern Arabs who live in Iran were pretty happy the US invaded Iraq. They knew about it and they supported it prior to the invasion in 2003.
  http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/07/world/middleeast/us-conferred-with-iran-before-iraq-invasion-book-says.html
  
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  October 3, 2016 12:42pm
  - stephieboy
    
    All on Red, this may help to explain Iran’s attitude to the 2003 invasion ,
    
    “The protracted war between these neighboring Middle Eastern countries resulted in at least half a million casualties and several billion dollars’ worth of damages, but no real gains by other side. Started by Iraq dictator Saddam Hussein in September 1980, the war was marked by indiscriminate ballistic-missile attacks, extensive use of chemical weapons and attacks on third-country oil tankers in the Persian Gulf. Although Iraq was forced on the strategic defensive, Iran was unable to reconstitute effective armored formations for its air force and could not penetrate Iraq’s borders deeply enough to achieve decisive results. The end came in July 1988 with the acceptance UN Resolution 598…”
    
    http://www.history.com/topics/iran-iraq-war
    
    Middle Eastern Arabs = Iraqi exiles ?
    
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    October 3, 2016 1:07pm
  - mikenmild
    
    Tell me more about the ‘Arabs’ who live in Iran….
    
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    October 3, 2016 1:12pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Mikenmild, some do, a majority of the population are Iranian, but it’s not 100%
      
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      October 3, 2016 2:03pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Ed Snack , the Arabic portion like the Turkic amounts to a significant 2% of the population ,
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicities_in_Iran#Arabs
        
        Kurds 10% and 79% Iranian Indo-European etc .
        
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        October 3, 2016 2:20pm
Manolo

Speaking against the crook:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/sep/30/i-dont-want-my-son-serving-under-president-hillary/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork

http://www.weeklystandard.com/hillary-and-the-rodeo-queens/article/2004640
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October 3, 2016 11:09am
Manolo

Allahu akbar:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/10/02/driver-plowed-his-vehicle-into-veterans-car-in-name-allah-police-say.html

Driver Ameer Abbaf Fakhraldin slammed into a car being driven by Scott Alcala, an Afghanistan war veteran who was on his way from Fresno to San Jose to play golf with his father.
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October 3, 2016 11:13am
Stars And Stripes

Child abuser wins right to stay in New Zealand for humanitarian reasons
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/84891031/child-abuser-wins-right-to-stay-in-new-zealand-for-humanitarian-

Another bullshit decision from the Immigration and Protection Tribunal.
Wonder if the outcome would have been the same if he was a white South African?.
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October 3, 2016 11:47am
- AgentBallSack
  
  It ruled humanitarian grounds applied and that it was not contrary to the public interest to allow him to stay in New Zealand.
  
  His family had forged strong ties to their community church and there was “public interest in preservation of the family unit”, the tribunal said.
  
  Send them all back then.
  
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  October 3, 2016 12:01pm
- Jack5
  
  If he was in Australia the child abuser would be put on the plane the day his sentence finished.
  
  The Immigration and Protection Tribunal is a bunch of liberals from leafy suburbs who don’t give a toss about the safety of the rest of us.
  
  Notice the bias in the news report. The child abuser is “profoundly deaf”, as opposed to being “deaf”.
  
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  October 3, 2016 2:14pm
  - Brigitte
    
    That’s because there is a difference in the two terms:
    
    “Hearing loss refers to a diminished ability to hear sounds like other people do, while deafness refers to the inability to understand speech through hearing even when sound is amplified. Profound deafness means the person cannot hear anything at all; they are unable to detect sound, even at the highest volume possible.”
    
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    October 3, 2016 4:32pm
Morrissey

If the people assaulted by that young Wellington footballer had been his own children, then no doubt Bob (“Hit ‘Em With A Hairbrush”) McCoskrie would have loudly supported his right to hit them….
http://bobmccoskrie.com/?p=17734#sthash.8ezaISCx.dpbs
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October 3, 2016 12:01pm
- Jack5
  
  Morrissey, perhaps then they mightn’t have grown into thugs who not only punched and knocked down a man and jumped on his head, but assaulted women who were with him.
  
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  October 3, 2016 2:17pm
  - Morrissey
    
    Thanks for confirming my suspicion.
    
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    October 3, 2016 5:42pm
- Salacious Crumb
  
  If the Police get to retry this, then the full summary of facts will come out. We have only heard one side of story as Filipo plead guilty.
  
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  October 3, 2016 5:57pm
  - Jack5
    
    If he had something to say why did he plead guilty?
    
    Are you suggesting there was some sort of plea bargain?
    
    This is how Stuff reported it from the judge’s sentencing notes:
    
    The gravity of the offending was “simply unquestionable and inescapable”.
    
    This was a fairly serious case of street violence, the kind of offending that is of significant concern to the public. Seemingly it was unprovoked.
    
    If the attack goes back to court, maybe the police will lay more serious charges. Be careful what you wish for, Salacious Crumb.
    
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    October 3, 2016 11:24pm
Manolo

The smoke seller tries to appear diplomatic:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-pray-vote-pope-tells-americans-ahead-elections-221531538.html
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October 3, 2016 12:19pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Actually why is the Pope not holding the Pro Baby Murderer Clinton to account on her liberal support on Abortion. No Catholic should be voting for Clinton.
  
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  October 3, 2016 2:06pm
RF

Hold the press… my day is complete. To hell with WW3 about to break out as that is no longer important.

The world breaking news is that Dan Carters self imposed ban on drinking coffee has only one day to go.

FFS get a life…..
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October 3, 2016 12:48pm
Manolo

The crooked pair are creaming it and laughing all the way to the bank:
http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21707936-clintons-activities-outside-politics-are-both-inspiring-and-worrying-bill-and-hillary?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/billandhillaryinc

The Economist estimates that, based on their tax returns and other disclosures, the couple have given 728 such talks since Mr Clinton left office in 2001, making $154m of fee income.
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October 3, 2016 1:02pm
stephieboy

Manolo, which the ” crooked ” pair apparently disclosed which the other crooked one continues to refuse to do so !

Why ?
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October 3, 2016 1:18pm
- Ed Snack
  
  But would you trust the Clinton Initiative’s tax returns, given that they “forgot” to include tens, possibly hundreds, of millions in foreign donations in the years when HRC was SOS ?
  
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  October 3, 2016 2:08pm
  - stephieboy
    
    Ed Snack , tripe !,
    
    “What Donald Trump’s Tax Returns Won’t Tell Us, But Hillary Clinton’s Do”
    
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2016/08/30/what-donald-trumps-tax-returns-wont-tell-us-but-hillary-clintons-do/#47f4f0a32d6c
    
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    October 3, 2016 2:25pm
Manolo

What does Assange have on Clinton?
http://heatst.com/politics/october-surprise-thwarted-wikileaks-cancels-highly-anticipated-tuesday-announcement-due-to-security-concerns/

Wikileaks has abruptly canceled a much-anticipated announcement on Tuesday, according to NBC News. The announcement had been expected to be founder Julian Assange’s long-promised document dump on Hillary Clinton.
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October 3, 2016 1:33pm
- stephieboy
  
  Manolo, full of Seth Rich body bag type nonsense . It is, therefore, reasonable to conclude that Assange has nothing much that would doom Hillary Clinton’s campaign .
  
  Clinton Conspiracy Central,
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/26/hillary-clinton-conspiracy-theories-activists-rightwing
  
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  October 3, 2016 1:47pm
- Don the Kiwi
  
  Apparently it is only the ‘live’ announcement that is cancelled. The announcement may still come however via the internet. Time will tell.
  
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  October 3, 2016 5:33pm
Captain Mainwaring

Where are the protesters?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11721464

Oh sorry, It’s Chinese, not American.
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October 3, 2016 2:00pm
- RalphT
  
  Yes, I’m surprised Russel isn’t there asking for his flag back.
  
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  October 3, 2016 3:27pm
waripori

I can’t get too excited about Trump not paying tax. Fair to assume all his business failures would have left some chunky losses to work off even if his creditors wore most of them. There is probably still some other stuff relating to donations and foreign lenders which he does not want anyone to know about and which would be more interesting.

I wonder what the reaction would be here if everyone found out John Key was paying no tax. My guess is it would be bad for him and this may not work out well for Trump either. Still, compared with the other stuff he has said and done the tax thing does not amount to much.
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October 3, 2016 2:45pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I am not so sure that New Zealanders would get so sad over Key not paying tax.
  Look at how much New Zealand income tax Fonterra pays, and nobody blinks an eye.
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:50pm
  - Gabby
    
    Fonterra isn’t the prymincer.
    
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    October 3, 2016 8:53pm
  - Jack5
    
    Tauhei Notts, Fonterra didn’t pay company tax at all in its 2016 financial year, did it?
    
    It must be able to offset against profit “distributions” to farmer shareholders, and it has big amounts of tax credits to carry forward.
    
    Are these “distributions” in effect dividends on farmers’ shares? If so it’s odd that Fonterra can offset them against profit for tax purposes. I don’t think you can do that with a non-cooperative company.
    
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    October 3, 2016 10:30pm
Manolo

Of interest to those who follow international business:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/02/german-business-leaders-offer-support-to-deutsche-bank

German business leaders have thrown their weight behind Deutsche Bank after a week of market turmoil in which shares in the country’s biggest bank were dragged to 30-year lows on fears it will be crippled by a £10.5bn) penalty from the US authorities.
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October 3, 2016 3:29pm
freemark

Public Health Doctors to strike. No doubt the Opposition will have a lot to say in support, because we know it’s a cruel neo lib Govt, NZ is in crisis, everywhere, and it’s all FJK’s fault.
Wonder if any in the MSM will ask Cunliffe what he thinks about it…
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/447385/The-doctors-striking-symptom
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October 3, 2016 3:56pm
starboard

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/84908245/stoush-brewing-over-whether-or-not-john-key-is-welcome-at-waitangis-lower-marae.

And they wonder why New Zealanders treat this circus and waitangi day with contempt. Shove ya waitangi day right up your arse, I’ll be out fishing.
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October 3, 2016 4:29pm
Nostradamus

Watch NZ Herald Focus: Mayoral Wrap

Catch the highlights of Tristram Clayton’s interviews with the Auckland Mayoral Candidates.

Featuring (in order of appearance):
– Phil Goff
– Chloe Swarbrick
– John Palino
– Victoria Crone

Not featuring: Public Watchdog
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October 3, 2016 5:07pm
- stigie
  
  Im appalled that Penny’s not featuring Nostra, you know she only wants the best for Auckland and the ratepayers..?
  
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  October 3, 2016 6:59pm
Don the Kiwi

Could it be that Comey of the FBI is in trouble?
Could it be possible that he is in the Clinton camp?
So many questions – so few answers………..

http://www.infowars.com/report-fbi-turns-against-director-comey/
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October 3, 2016 5:32pm
BananaLlama

Just voted for Penny Bright. Logic being she can’t fuck it up anymore than the previous lot and at least i will get a few laughs out of it.
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October 3, 2016 5:39pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Ah well, At least the looney bint will get one vote besides her own.
  
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  October 3, 2016 11:16pm
Manolo

The enemy within:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3818797/five-schools-open-despite-extremist-fears-18-private-Islamic-schools-defy-inspectors-branding-unsafe.html

Dozens of Islamic schools continue to operate despite inspectors finding that pupils are unsafe, exposed to extreme views or unaware of basic British values, a Mail investigation reveals today.
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October 3, 2016 5:59pm
Griff

WOBH has some interesting new disclosures on the case of the not so conservative leader Mr Colon “family values” Craig
Well worth reading if you feel like rolling around on the floor laughing at conservatives for a while .
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October 3, 2016 6:24pm
- stephen2d
  
  This is when all those DKR and other (more) respectable heads like McCoskrie & co should bow in shame and come out publicly against that Craig imbecile and a charlatan!
  
  They have let a cause be associated with a liar and have fucked it up!
  
  Time to try and repair the damage before the next election and cut him loose.
  
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  October 3, 2016 7:04pm
- stigie
  
  Griff, be interesting to know what Reddy thinks of Colon and the conservatives. Have you been over to the flooded place lately called Trupoo..?
  
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  October 3, 2016 7:06pm
  - Griff
    
    You go stigie.
    I have just eaten ..
    .
    .
    I dont think his blogs are active.
    Redtwat has commented on a few other blogs lately and is still twitting .
    
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    October 3, 2016 7:13pm
EAD

Brother Nathanael reflecting on why he left Judaism:

https://youtu.be/fGTp1Q162Gw

He brings up many interesting points about Christianity vs. Judaism and how the 2 religions are the anithesis of each other.

It amazes me how people refer to the utterly ridiculous term “Judeo-Christianity”
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October 3, 2016 7:26pm
Morrissey

Unbelievably, Trump’s uninformed and unintelligent outbursts during his humiliation last Wednesday were possibly not even his worst performance.

Aficionados of epic stupidity might like to watch the following:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrqqQAfenUo
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October 3, 2016 7:34pm
EAD

President of the Conference of European Rabbis, Rabbi Pinchas Goldschmidt:

“Muslims are Jews’ natural allies in Europe, Jews are fighting alongside their Muslim brothers against Old Europe.

https://www.rt.com/shows/worlds-apart-oksana-boyko/229343-jewish-muslim-minorities-tolerance/
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October 3, 2016 7:45pm
Nostradamus

Conservatives still open to Craig returning

The Conservative Party is still hoping to contest the next election even after a defamation ruling against its founder and former leader Colin Craig.
…
Conservative Party spokesperson Leighton Baker said the door is still open to Craig coming back, but they don’t know what his plans are yet. … Baker said it had been “difficult for the Party for the last fifteen months probably, since the last election”, and they’re working out what to do next, but don’t want voters to forget them.

He needn’t worry – I don’t think voters will forget!

And let’s not forget Deadrightkev’s prediction: “It would not surprise me to see Craig back at the helm of the CP by Xmas, following a Trump win, then go on to lead the party to 5% at the next election”
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October 3, 2016 8:07pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  “It would not surprise me to see Craig back at the helm of the CP by Xmas, following a Trump win, then go on to lead the party to 5% at the next election”
  
  I suppose that’s possible, given the number of imbeciles who are happy to line up behind Peters.
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:22pm
- mikenmild
  
  Speaking of Colin Craig, you might enjoy this tribute to the jury:
  http://thespinoff.co.nz/featured/03-10-2016/an-emotional-salute-to-the-suffering-heroes-of-the-colin-craig-jury/
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:25pm
  - nasska
    
    From Mike’s link:
    
    ….”Former Conservative Party board member Laurence Day testified that MacGregor had been “forward” around Craig, which would be in contravention of Conservative Party policy demanding she silently steam press his shirts while wearing a bonnet. “…..
    
    Love it! 🙂
    
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    October 3, 2016 8:37pm
- tom hunter
  
  See, this is why I don’t really need to keep collecting Deadrightkev quotes.
  
  You rack ’em up Nostradamus and I’ll be your wingman.
  
  Until it’s time for the kill. 🙂
  
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  October 3, 2016 10:47pm
cha

A 5th Texas newspaper endorses Clinton.

A Trump presidency would be a disaster for our country, and worse for those of us on the border. His promises to make Mexico pay for a needless wall between our nations, and his vow to unilaterally terminate vital trade agreements, would disrupt one of the United States’ most important international relationships and set the border economy back decades.

When he announced his candidacy, Trump made it clear that he would target immigrants – especially Mexican immigrants – to win votes. “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

El Paso can answer that barbarous lie in the Nov. 8 election.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/story/opinion/2016/09/30/editorial-hillary-clinton-clear-choice-president/91322782/
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October 3, 2016 8:35pm
- AgentBallSack
  
  That’s good for Trump.
  MSM are a poisoned chalice these days…
  
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  October 3, 2016 8:52pm
Nostradamus

Today’s pervert is Wytse De Vries:

A teenager who thought about sewing her pyjamas together to stop a man sexually abusing her locked herself in her mother’s room to avoid his advances.

That man, Wytse De Vries, would tell the girl’s mother he was going to pray with her and say goodnight, before abusing her.

Judge David Cameron described the 39-year-old’s crimes, committed over 3½ years as “deplorable”, when sentencing him in the Whanganui District Court on Monday to six years and four months’ jail for sexual crimes against two girls.

What a scumbag – using prayer on false pretences so he could abuse a young girl in her own bedroom.

Defence lawyer Fergus Steedman read segments of letters people had written in support of De Vries, in which they said he had started to change as soon as he began talking about what he had done.

De Vries’ wife of 18 years, who had forgiven him for what he had done, wrote he had “demonstrated genuine remorse and repentance”, and that “he knows the terrible cost of what he did to all involved, and had worked through those issues”. “He is a changed man.”

The scumbag pleaded guilty to one charge and denied the rest. That doesn’t sound like remorse and repentance to me.
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October 3, 2016 9:43pm
- nasska
  
  The amazing thing is that he didn’t get name suppression.
  
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  October 3, 2016 9:50pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    It’s a sad state of affairs when some rugby players get name suppression, but aspiring priests don’t!
    
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    October 3, 2016 9:56pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  According to an earlier report at the time of the trial, this character justified his actions as consensual..
  based on (presumably) Deuteronomy 22:24… when a woman fails to cry out while being abused.
  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503426&objectid=11681677
  
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  October 3, 2016 10:09pm
  - nasska
    
    He could walk under a snake’s belly wearing stilts.
    
    Yet there are people who still wonder why many of us have nothing but contempt for religion.
    
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    October 3, 2016 10:14pm
    - Shunda barunda
      
      Yeah, no atheists EVER commit crimes, murder, or fiddle with kids.
      
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      October 3, 2016 10:43pm
      - sam green
        
        How is that an argument?
        
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        October 4, 2016 8:23am
  - Nostradamus
    
    Maggy:
    
    That’s an extraordinary article:
    
    A man who tried to use Old Testament bible verses to justify sexually abusing a teenager has been found guilty of his crimes. … In a conversation with an acquaintance, De Vries mentioned Old Testament bible verses about how if a woman has sex with a man in a city but does not cry out for help, then it is deemed consensual.
    
    When the teenager revealed the abuse to her pastor, De Vries wrote her a letter saying he was sorry she had to relive the pain of past sin, and offering advice that she should seek counsel from “godly men in the church” and men who knew about the complaints process.
    
    I hope the pastor (when told about the sexual abuse) reported it.
    
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    October 3, 2016 10:19pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The pastor excommunicated De Vries…
      but no idea who reported the sexual offending.
      
      The excommunication appears to be because of lack of repentance…. not because of abuse or adultery
      
      http://propitiates4.rssing.com/browser.php?indx=3806794&item=336
      
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      October 3, 2016 10:32pm
- cha
  
  right mob and the prick would’ve been allowed to slippery off, with references….
  
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  October 3, 2016 10:44pm
  - Scott Chris
    
    thats the important sign of our times?
    
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    October 3, 2016 11:23pm
Scott Chris

This Prince bit is good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZOrIHeEN3s
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October 3, 2016 11:28pm
BeeSting

Stephie Boy

How about you email Hilary on her private email
Server and ask her what she has done

FFS
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October 4, 2016 1:01am
Manolo

The philanderer’s love child?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/21/my-quest-to-find-bill-clinton-s-love-child.html
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October 4, 2016 6:54am

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