General Debate 30 August 2016

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waikatogirl

Richard Branson who released cctv to prove Jeremy Corbyn walked past empty train seats on a Virgin train, and claimed there were no seats available, is now in the gun from the British Liabore party.
Jeremy Corbyn’s team is calling for Richard Branson to have his knighthood stripped because he is a tax exile and has undermined British democracy.
You mean Branson embarrassed Corbyn by calling him a liar!
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August 30, 2016 8:02am
- MT_Tinman
  
  Branson embarrassed Corbyn by proving him a liar.
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:08am
  - waikatogirl
    
    You are right Tinman. “Proved” him a liar is much better.
    Glad you enjoy a good cup of java in the morning as well. 🙂
    
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    August 30, 2016 8:27am
  - doggone7
    
    “Unfortunately for Corbyn’s critics, a number of people who were on the same train as the Labour leader have come forward to corroborate his version of events. The apparently empty seats had, according to these witnesses, been “reserved” by passengers placing bags and clothing upon them for their friends – something missed in the Virgin Trains’ video on account of the elevated positioning of its security cameras.”
    
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    August 30, 2016 9:36am
    - MT_Tinman
      
      doggone7 The photograph of Corbyn in a seat on the train was false?
      
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      August 30, 2016 10:27am
      - doggone7
        
        Photographs always depict reality. The reality they depict is the moveable feast. realities they don’t depict the same. The context is another moveable feast. A reasonable amount of discernment and a healthy dash of cynicism is always wise.
        
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        August 30, 2016 11:42am
- Hajji
  
  Next they will be photoshopping Branson out of photographs as an ‘unperson’!
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:40am
Happychappy

I wonder whether the Labour party are mounting a enquiry on their 25.5% in the latest roy morgan poll or is that the reason for sending Matt i dont pay tax to Auckland
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August 30, 2016 8:07am
- WineOh
  
  … which means yet another new Chief of Staff for Labour.
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:26am
- G152
  
  Oh dear another homeless jobless vagrant to wander the streets of Auckland 🙂
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:38am
- Chuck Bird
  
  NZF is on 9.5%. NFZ would hold the balance of power.
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:49am
cmm

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/83691695/student-brawl-breaks-out-at-kfc-in-south-auckland

When did this crap calling school kids “students” start? I know it was a while back, but it is nonsense.

“Students” used to be a term reserved for university/polytech students. In my day those were synonyms.

Traditionally the term for school kids is pupil. The difference is that pupils’ learning is under close supervision while students are treated more like adults and are expected to take responsibility for their own learning.
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August 30, 2016 8:07am
- wiseowl
  
  What I would like to know is how come these pupils living in what the media have led me to believe is ‘poverty’ ,and most likely being fed at school, can afford KFC when as a small producer working my ass off means KFC is a once a year treat?
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:13am
- dave_c_
  
  Probably about the time those who interact with Governement departments et al, are now classified as ‘Customers’
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:51am
  - Jack5
    
    Or as “clients”.
    
    Won’t be long until the public become “the clientele”.
    
    Euphemism at work.
    
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    August 30, 2016 9:04am
    - dave_c_
      
      Indeed – or ‘the useless eaters’
      
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      August 30, 2016 9:16am
- VicParking
  
  How long before they come out to say its because the “Students” came from a charter school.
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:58am
- Random Punter
  
  Exactly right, cmm. Kathryn Ryan on Nine to Noon and her guests from the education sector are serial offenders. I sent her an email making the same points as you, to absolutely no effect. “Invincible ignorance” I think is the phrase.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:19am
- Left Right and Centre
  
  Welcome to the new normal. What can you do ?
  
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  August 31, 2016 1:53am
Keeping Stock

Will Matt McCarten’s new office in Auckland be within walking distance of a KFC outlet in case he needs to go to extreme lengths to reconnect with the “missing million”?
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August 30, 2016 8:08am
- RalphT
  
  KS, I’m confused. Is the missing million those who couldn’t be bothered voting last time or the money McCarten’s union withheld from the IRD?
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:34am
MT_Tinman

Sorry folks and WG, hit the report button by mistake before – anyone in charge reading this please remind me regularly that two cups of coffee is far too few before commenting on this blog.
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August 30, 2016 8:11am
flipper

Heh Jordan… and DPF….
The US needs the help of the Taxpayers Union …. urgently!

Headline this morning in Washington:

” Feds spend $911,056 studying the drinking habits of lesbian couples”
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August 30, 2016 8:15am
Griff

KFC defines the new age
Anthropocene

Humanity’s impact on the Earth is now so profound that a new geological epoch – the Anthropocene – needs to be declared, according to an official expert group who presented the recommendation to the International Geological Congress in Cape Town on Monday.

The new epoch should begin about 1950, the experts said, and was likely to be defined by the radioactive elements dispersed across the planet by nuclear bomb tests, although an array of other signals, including plastic pollution, soot from power stations, concrete, and even the bones left by the global proliferation of the domestic chicken were now under consideration.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/29/declare-anthropocene-epoch-experts-urge-geological-congress-human-impact-earth
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August 30, 2016 8:19am
kowtow

Are we losing all sense of proportion?
A statue to a rugby player ? In his own lifetime?
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August 30, 2016 8:20am
- mikenmild
  
  You’re a bit late to complain about the statue of Michael Jones – it’s been at Eden park for years.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:01am
  - kowtow
    
    Quite ridiculous, innit?
    
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    August 30, 2016 10:54am
- Kimbo
  
  In Richie McCaw’s case, no. Absolutely not. Also, it is no doubt to generate tourism in the Upper Waitaki District. Their money, their choice…
  
  Although I always thought they got the wrong Jones boy in bronze outside Eden Park. Should have been Peter the fisherman from Awanui, who scored the most important try in All Black history on that ground (4th test vs South Africa 1956), and not Michael against Italy in the romp of a World Cup opener in 1987.
  
  But Dave Gallaher (Ponsonby!) the skipper of the 1905 Original All Blacks is rightly commemorated there too.
  
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  August 30, 2016 10:41am
  - Kimbo
    
    Sorry, to clarify, in answer to kowtow’s primary question
    
    “Are we losing all sense of proportion?”
    
    No, we are not. Thoroughly deserved in McCaw’s case, and a good way for Kurow to celebrate its greatest citizen since…James McKenzie? Just wish Richie had taken the knighthood, but his call….
    
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    August 30, 2016 10:59am
    - Longknives
      
      Kimbo- It’s a beautiful part of the Country up the Waitaki Valley. It gets flooded with Boaties, Fishermen and Campers every Summer anyway..
      Not sure what a statue of your hero would really achieve in terms of ‘Tourism’?
      
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      August 30, 2016 1:46pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Isn’t that the way/standard playbook to “rejuvenate” declining rural districts and small towns? Stick up a landmark or build a theme museum of some sort? Put it this way – a statue of Richie is more dignified than a giant plastic carrot – no offence to Ohakune!
        
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        August 30, 2016 1:50pm
  - Longknives
    
    “who scored the most important try in All Black history on that ground ”
    
    And was absolutely buggered afterwards!
    
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    August 30, 2016 1:48pm
EAD

Shock horror – Robots with AI (i.e. using evidence and history) make assumptions that are “wayyyyyyyycist”

Princeton University conducted a word associate task with the popular algorithm GloVe, an unsupervised AI that uses online text to understand human language.

The team gave the AI words like ‘flowers’ and ‘insects’ to pair with other words that the researchers defined as being ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’ like ‘family’ or ‘crash’ – which it did successfully.

Then algorithm was given a list of white-sounding names, like Emily and Matt, and black-sounding ones, such as Ebony and Jamal’, which it was prompted to do the same word association.

The AI linked the white-sounding names with ‘pleasant’ and black-sounding names as ‘unpleasant’.

Princeton’s results do not just prove datasets are polluted with prejudices and assumptions, but the algorithms currently being used for researchers are reproducing human’s worst values – racism and assumption

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3760795/The-robot-racist-AI-learnt-web-finds-white-sounding-names-pleasant-black-sounding-names-unpleasant.html

I guess a similar algorithm in NZ that found the names “Rangi”, “Taneru”, “Moki” & “Wiremu” have a higher disposition towards child violence would also be deemed wayyyyyyyyycist
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August 30, 2016 8:21am
- cmm
  
  People who say the algorithms are racist don’t understand how they work.
  
  These learning algorithms are just pattern matching. When they see more of the same pattern they re-enforce the algorithm. Simple patterns get re-enforced more than complex patterns.
  
  Most “white” names follow simple patterns and would be more commonly encountered because they are more commonly used. Hence the AI will “prefer” them.
  
  “Black sounding” names (Shoniqua et al) are more complex and less often encountered so surprise, surprise the AI doesn’t like them.
  
  I bet that same AI would hate some of the complex white names that fell out of favour too: Wilberforce, Percival,…
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:37am
- stephieboy
  
  EAD , what about popular Jewish names like Benjamin , Efraim, Miriam, Esther , Amos etc ?
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:43am
  - EAD
    
    Stephieboy,
    
    Having heard the wise words from the likes of yourself, Keeping Stock, Milkemild, Tom Hunter, Griff etc. it turns out I am completely wrong about everything I’ve been highlighting on Kiwiblog.
    
    It turns out that Israel, and Jews across the world, are poor, downtrodden, innocent victims of constant harassment, violence and racism.
    
    The ground has shifted beneath my feet, but at least I can sleep soundly, knowing that all central banks, corporations and international organisations are being run by honest, capable, albeit victimised and unfairly downtrodden experts. Phew!
    
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    August 30, 2016 10:01am
- Lance
  
  nonsense
  Vague approximations of AI with vastly inferior computing power.
  The human brain has the equivalent processing power of 820,000 of the fastest PCs (lots on conjecturer though).
  A ways to go methinks
  
  They call the meeting of processing power and human brain capacity as Zero hour.
  
  Present predictions are 2023
  
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  August 30, 2016 12:22pm
Paulus

Is it just me but do I detect that Radio Left Wing has been infiltrated by the part Maori PC Police.
I see that the City of Auckland is now pronounced Tamati Makaura and Wellington is some long worded Whanganui a somebody.
In neither cases are the English names also annotated.
Presumably they are under instruction to pursue this so every name in New Zealand is Maori.
Apartheid by deception.
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August 30, 2016 8:21am
- wiseowl
  
  Paulus , you missed the weather that they started with ‘weather for New Zealand ay oh tee a rower.’
  I switched stations immediately.
  It is not the job of radio to shove this stuff in our ears like a form of mass indoctrination. Espinner is the worst offender .
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:30am
- mikenmild
  
  I like hearing te reo used more. Something distinctly New Zealand.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:03am
  - starboard
    
    Of course you do mm..we would expect nothing less of you. Your white guilt absolutely oozes from your pores…
    
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    August 30, 2016 10:06am
- dave_c_
  
  It’s everywhere now – Radio NZ national 6:00am, now mentions that ‘Welcome to morning report, today is ‘Ra….’ something (Tuesday)
  
  Insidious creep – we’re not supposed to notice – yer right
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:10am
  - Jack5
    
    Dave … Radio New Zealand must know the justification for State-owned radio becomes ever weaker. It must 90 years or so since it made sense for the State to help pioneer a then new and then expensive communications medium.
    
    By sucking up to Maori, Radio NZ probably hopes to survive on to the same taxpayer-fund guilt tit that sustains Maori TV.
    
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    August 30, 2016 10:16pm
kowtow

Police promise to attend every burglary? Don’t they already . Something very wrong with their priorities if they haven’t been.
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August 30, 2016 8:21am
- waikatogirl
  
  Imagine being a burglar who has happily gone about his ‘work’ knowing the police don’t bother chasing your crimes of entering houses and businesses to steal from hardworking, honest kiwis.
  
  Sweet eh!
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:52am
  - VicParking
    
    Get real. The police turn up at the burglary when its discovered three hours or more after it happened. They wont find the culprit standing at the gate.
    The goods have already been sold and the P purchased and smoked.
    
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    August 30, 2016 9:05am
  - G152
    
    So where do convicted burglars get housed upon release from prison and how far from any property or business do they have to live ?
    
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    August 30, 2016 11:09am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Now we just have to get people back into the habit of reporting them.
    
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    August 30, 2016 11:16pm
- mikenmild
  
  They don’t attend every burglary as it is unnecessary and unlikely to result in the burglar being nabbed. I wonder what other tasks would have to be neglected for this policy to change.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:04am
  - starboard
    
    Oh, so I guess its up to me to catch burglar and hand out justice on the spot..s’pose plod would also be too busy to follow up on “maori man beaten to within inch of life in Queenstown ” .
    
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    August 30, 2016 10:09am
  - marcw
    
    An advantage of police responding to each burglary reported is they are trained to ask the right questions, perhaps detect possible insurance fraud for further follow up, and also to give good burglary prevention advice – helping reduce potential future crimes. A scene examination can reveal many unwitting invitations to be burgled that some home owners just don’t consider.
    
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    August 30, 2016 10:49am
- Inandout
  
  Insurers require a burglary to be reported before a claim is considered. It is not so much the loss of property because it can be replaced, but the fact that some scum has been fingering your personal items. The Police simply cannot attend every reported burglary, even if staff numbers were doubled, and recovering stolen items is usually doubtful. Burglars are fairly safe in assuming they won’t get caught in the act, and certainly won’t get shot dead by the homeowner like in some countries. So yeah, a thief’s paradise is our NZ.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:33am
waikatogirl

Patrick Gower shows his support for Matt McCarten:

“Shifted sideways, was he pushed or did he jump. He probably dragged a few people out the window with him. He is an old warrior and street fighter. Let’s hope this is not the last fight we see Matt McCarten have because he has political cunning, we need him in this game. He is a unique politcal brain in this country. Matt McCarten you a a yoga type figure and we need you. I salute you. Goodbye.”
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August 30, 2016 8:24am
- holysheet
  
  looking at this rat faced prick who thinks he’s a reporter makes me want to puke.
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:27am
- WineOh
  
  Should that be Yoda? I just had a shudder imagining Matt M doing yoga.
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:27am
- Keeping Stock
  
  So Paddy Gower supports tax evasion. And by endorsing McCarten in this manner, Gower is also endorsing McCarten’s alleged roles in both the Internet Mana rort and the Dirty Politics saga.
  
  And yet Gower continues to accuse National of doing “dirty deals” with Act and UF, whilst remaining silent on this morning’s news that Labour will ask the Greens not to stand a candidate against them in the Mt Roskill by-election (which Labour arrogantly assumes will happen). Anyone for industrial-strength hypocrisy?
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:34am
  - VicParking
    
    Paddy is not worth the eye effort in reading or looking at his reports. He might as well wear a red suit. Stuart Little will be looking for a new Chief of staff, ideal job for him. Then we can more than one foot in mouth while chasing a car statement from Liebour each day.
    
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    August 30, 2016 9:09am
- adamsmith1922
  
  Surely he did not mean yoga?
  
  Semantics aside, so Gower thinks ‘we need him in this game’ thus clearly showing to my mind, his deep left bias and showing as well that Gower seeks to manipulate our views. Gower is unsuitable to be a so called political editor for a major media outlet.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:42am
Padriv Ustoev

Poverty and racism must be to blame for this – http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11701641

South Auckland what a joke of a place.
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August 30, 2016 8:28am
- Longknives
  
  Stay classy South Auckland!
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:48am
- kowtow
  
  Of course you’re right about the racism, that portrait of the Southern Colonel must be so offensive to “persons of colour” and be a constant reminder to members of the black and minority ethnicities of the evil ,white, priveliged, capitalist regime they currently live under which perpetuates inequality, marginalisation, oppression , homelessness, poverty , disenfranchisement, colonisation and brutality (did I leave anything out) that their only and legitimate response is to kick the shit out of each other .
  
  Saunders Must Fall !
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/19/rhodes-fall-oxford-university-inclusivity-black-students
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:08am
- Kiwi Dave
  
  A big fight at the Mangere East KFC.
  
  It must have been King’s College students rampaging. White privilege has got a lot to answer for. 🙂
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:09am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  An interesting part about this story is that when it first appeared on the NZ Herald site, about 7 p.m. yesterday. De La Salle College and one other college were mentioned. Now all mention of individual schools has been erased.
  Nobody died, so Kelston Boys High could not have been involved.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:30am
- stephieboy
  
  South Auckland is a very big area possibly bigger than the population of Christchurch . I understand Stars and Stripes live’s there and may not like to be included in your sweeping generalisation, ” what a joke of a place. ” ?
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:41am
waikatogirl

Sorry WineOh, that meant to be yogi 😉
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August 30, 2016 8:31am
waitakereman

well said keeping stock!
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August 30, 2016 8:43am
Happychappy

Without making excuses crime always increases in hard times and when you have do gooders in Parliament and the Media pushing their buttons they believe it is all right.So when you get political parties using stolen property to gain a advantage and the media paying criminals to access this imformation like Nicky Hager so he can try and remove Governments,what sort of message are you saying to joe blogs.You have people like the german that has the money to keep his court dealings in limbo for years and no one seems to know how to stop it, so young people involved in crime think the same should happen to them
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August 30, 2016 8:53am
Longknives

Ha Ha Helen Clark has ‘slipped even further’ in the UN vote..
Must be a conspiracy of sorts surely? Sexism? The Old Boy’s Network?
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August 30, 2016 8:59am
- burt
  
  But sources suggest Clark’s high profile has also made her a victim of “tall poppy syndrome”.
  
  How ironic, the way her government ran with the policies of envy to be popular is coming back to haunt her.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:01am
- kowtow
  
  Last night the tv news was blaming the evil Putin.
  
  ps Why the hell Ngati Notional is supporting an internationalist socialist for the role is beyond me.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:11am
  - burt
    
    To keep her from returning to NZ for a few more years.
    
    Perhaps Peter Davis has donated to National to encourage them to support this ?
    
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    August 30, 2016 9:15am
    - Keeping Stock
      
      Quite so burt. But even if she fails, her contract with the UNDP runs until the end of 2017, so she is “otherwise engaged” beyond the end of the current electoral cycle.
      
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      August 30, 2016 9:20am
- calendar girl
  
  Apparently 7th out of the remaining 10 candidates: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11701670
  
  Looks like our Hulun might be toast – can’t say I’m too upset about that.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:22am
  - Manolo
    
    She IS toast! There is justice, after all.
    
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    August 30, 2016 9:27am
tom hunter

A few days ago I asked Griff why healthcare was different from any other product or service in that making a profit is deemed to be awful and to be discouraged. Niether Griff nor I had an answer – although I have read one or two articles over the years that tried to explain it in economic terms.

But I’ve found an article that addresses the question pretty well: Health Care Is a Business, Not a Right.

Subjecting health care to the sordid whims of the marketplace strikes many people as simply immoral. Nor is this feeling confined to the left. Conservatives may be less enthusiastic about socialized medicine, but talk to one about the health care system, and there’s a good chance you’ll get a rant about greedy insurers nickel-and-diming hardworking consumers when they’re sick. Almost everyone feels that there is something fundamentally wrong about making money off of someone else’s illness.

That last sentence pretty much nails the attitude, which is across the ideological (or at least political) spectrum. She wonders if an economist named Hanson has the answer:

Anthropologists tell us that there are two different economic systems by which members of groups obtain what they need to live. One kind, market exchange, is the form that we’re all familiar with. You go to the store, you give the clerk money, and you get to take goods away with you
….
The second form of exchange is “reciprocal altruism” and you’re also familiar with it, though you may never have given it a name. It is a system of mutual obligation: I do a favor for you now, and you do a favor for me at some unspecified point in the future.

And this guy thinks that may be what underlies our views of healthcare

Hanson is suggesting that we have a strong intuitive preference for altruistic health care — for an enormous, practically unlimited amount of altruistic health care – because health care is a way to demonstrate loyalty and caring to people you love. But the thing about reciprocal altruism is that it’s not supposed to be an explicit quid pro quo. That may explain why we like insurance that covers as much as possible and dislike any suggestion that the people who provide our health care are calculating what it will cost them to provide it. Bringing money into an altruistic exchange taints it (as you’ll quickly find if you try offering your spouse cash to get romantic when they say they’re not in the mood).

The issue, in other words, is not necessarily profit — health insurers are not particularly profitable as industries go, and hospitals and other care organizations are often nonprofit. The issue is making decisions based on money.

The trouble is that it ultimately does boil down to money, which leads to strange thinking that denies that fact, as she explores in the article.
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August 30, 2016 9:01am
- kowtow
  
  Or as the left would have it , it is a universal human right (whatever that is ) and so must be funded out of what the left seem to think is the unlimited amount of tax dollars there are to fund all those other universal human rights .
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:16am
- tom hunter
  
  The strange thinking on healthcare was best shown when she went to Britain for a radio show on the topic. This was in the middle of the Obamacare debate, and knowing that she was going into the heart of the beloved NHS (actually symbolised in the opening of the 2012 London Olympics)…
  
  rather than making a full throated defense of the marvels of free-market health care, I stuck to describing differences between the two systems, rather than advocating for one kind or another. I can’t now find the clip, so you’ll have to take my word for it that my tone was “blandly inarguable” rather than “stacking the deck in favor of my argument”.
  
  It didn’t work, especially when it came to the subject of NICE…
  
  the British agency that issues treatment guidelines for the NHS. NICE looks at how many quality-adjusted-life-years a treatment provides, and compares it to the cost. If it costs too much per year — at the time, they were leery of treatments that were above the 20,000 pound to 30,000 pound range — then NICE will generally not recommend it.
  
  As she points out NICE is beloved by health wonks: the Obamacare Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB) is an attempt to replicate it. However, she pointed out that NICE would not work in America:
  
  our fractured political system, and public sentiment, make it very difficult. Britain had achieved cost-effective treatment for everyone, at the cost of some people missing very expensive treatments that might help them.
  …
  Pointing out something the British health system can do that the American system can’t, and doing so in dryly factual tones, seemed like a good way to endear myself to the British audience.
  
  And then it all went South:
  
  The other guest, a British health official, interrupted to basically accuse me of lying; the British health system, he said, did no such thing.
  
  Denial! Cognitive Dissonance. She was bemused:
  
  Now I reiterate: I had not called NICE a death panel, or said that it was bad; I had simply described what NICE does, which is keep the NHS from blowing its budget on very expensive treatments that deliver relatively little value per pound spent. You can read NICE describing what NICE does on its website; the description is not significantly different from the one I gave. Being told that this was flat out wrong was surreal. Things got even more surreal when I began again to explain what NICE does, thinking that perhaps I had been unclear, and the host interrupted me and said something like “As you know, that’s false.”
  
  Which brings her back to altruristic exchange and how money taints it.
  
  Why such a strong emotional reaction to a boring factual statement? My conclusion, having read Hanson, was that people don’t want to think their health care system might let them die because it’s too expensive to keep them alive.
  
  They don’t like it any better when the government does it than when an insurer does — and so the government is at pains to suggest that cost is not a factor in their calculations.
  
  But of course it is.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:18am
  - mikenmild
    
    But all healthcare systems ‘let’ people die. Remember the fuss about dialysis and ‘rationing’ in the 1990s?
    
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    August 30, 2016 9:25am
    - tom hunter
      
      Or Herceptin – which she discusses in the article.
      
      But that’s not the point. It seems that people in both “socialised” and “private sector” healthcare systems, don’t want to hear that fact, or discuss it.
      
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      August 30, 2016 9:29am
      - mikenmild
        
        People can be irrational. That’s a well known factor in public policy.
        
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        August 30, 2016 9:32am
      - Griff
        
        The point of my comment was the cost of the usa’s more private system Tom
        Why go towards a system that cost more and results in less benefits in measurable outcomes ?
        Insurance based systems has something that is a difference to the public system when it comes to cost benefit analysis.
        Insurance firms can and do decline your application for funding on any grounds they can find to improve their profits.
        Their analysis has as a necessary facet a component that is based on benefit to them not to you or society.
        
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        August 30, 2016 9:46am
      - tom hunter
        
        @Griff (do I need to even do that anymore with this new nested system….?)
        
        Why go towards a system that cost more and results in less benefits in measurable outcomes ?
        
        Well unless you want to jump back to the Leftist mantras of life expectancy and infant mortality, you’ll find that on many measurements of actual healthcare treatments and results, we lag behind the USA. Whether its hip surgeries, eyes, or cancer survival rates, the USA does better than most – almost certainly because of the sheer quantity of MRI machines and other technology for scanning, drugs for treatment and seemingly endless new surgical techniques that do a better job faster and in less damaging ways than before.
        
        We can argue about the massively more expensive way that is achieved, but the denial of better health outcomes for actual healthcare-based problems and treatments, should not be arguable at this stage. Actually that’s why I think we always hear about “life expectancy/infant mortality”. It would not do for people in NZ to be aware of reduced periods of pain and better cancer outcomes, now would it? We might end up spending as much as the USA – and we could not have that.
        
        Insurance based systems has something that is a difference to the public system when it comes to cost benefit analysis.
        Insurance firms can and do decline your application for funding on any grounds they can find to improve their profits.
        
        No – that’s repeating the myth that the writer exposes. It’s more about them not going broke – which is the same calculations the NHS, or Canada’s government healthcare system or ourselves go through.
        
        Their analysis has as a necessary facet a component that is based on benefit to them not to you or society.
        
        Which brings me back to the point I was making a few days ago. You could say the same about every layer of our food system. But we have more food, more cheaply than ever before. Competition from many producers achieved that – and with fairly marginal profits in many cases too.
        
        And in any case, the cost-benefit calculation turns out to be the same, for all the palaver about profits vs people.
        
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        August 30, 2016 10:09am
  - tom hunter
    
    I’ve often argued that you have to have both a private and a public heathcare system (why morons are either unable or unwilling to read what I write is something beyond my control). But I’ve also argued that that the private:public ration should be 80:20 or some such, rather than 20:80 as it is now in NZ.
    
    The public system should be there for the big, catastrophic failures that cannot be handled privately – and that includes people too poor to pay for their healthcare. Having it the other way around is just not sustainable. As the article points out:
    
    A true national health care system, along the lines of Britain or Canada, would have advantages and disadvantages over what we have now. But one advantage that it doesn’t offer is to free us from the need to think about our health care in the cold logic of dollars and cents, rather than warm and fuzzy altruistic ideals. Health care cannot be a right, full stop; it has to stop before we run out of wallet. Which means that no matter how much it horrifies, we have to stop hoping for a system that will make those hard decisions and unhappy trade-offs go away.
    
    But because our system – and Canada’s and Britains – does try to pretend on this key point – problems don’t get addressed.
    
    Given how much the healthcare systems of NZ and Canada are based on Mother Britain’s, I think people are kidding themselves that we will not be facing the same problems here. From a recent article in Britain:
    
    According to Government figures, the £437 million spent in the first year of the NHS’s existence in 1948-49 is equivalent to £15 billion today. Yet the UK total spent on the NHS is now £116.4 billion, £101.3 billion of which is spent in England.
    …
    The population is nearly a third larger than in 1948-49; we are 64 million people against the 50 million at the 1951 census,
    …
    Yet this population growth cannot account for such an enormous real increase in spending. The problem is that the NHS is doing things its founders never envisaged.
    
    It also suffers from grotesque overmanning in non-medical staff, a lack of strategic planning to cope with demographic change, and many of the failures associated with the absence of an effective price mechanism.
    
    So much for the great principle of Central Command and Control. As the article points out:
    
    The NHS now employs 1.5 million people. As its website proudly proclaims, only McDonalds, Walmart, the US Defence Department and the Chinese People’s Liberation Army have larger payrolls. It may not have occurred to the NHS that this is not necessarily something to be proud of.
    
    How different are we in NZ? A little, but not that much: given the structural similarities how could we be? But National and Labout are interested only in the tactical cut and thrust of immediate problems, each one playing “hot potato, hot potato” with the system.
    
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    August 30, 2016 9:53am
    - Griff
      
      The population is nearly a third larger than in 1948-49; we are 64 million people against the 50 million at the 1951 census,
      …
      Yet this population growth cannot account for such an enormous real increase in spending. The problem is that the NHS is doing things its founders never envisaged.
      
      yip ain’t progress grand.
      They never envisioned NRI”s other technology advances and entire branches of surgery back in 1950.
      As well we have an aging population with heart disease. cancer and many other symptoms of age ready treatable at a large cost .
      
      What I see in your private public ratio is nothing but cooperate welfare.
      
      Privatize the profits and socialize the costs .
      
      I do agree that sometimes the public system gets captured by special interest groups like alt med whackos and other forms of woo along with the cultural safety wonks getting way to much funding. This is a political issue thats needs a evidence based perspective from those in control to minimize such wasted efforts.
      
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      August 30, 2016 10:12am
- stephieboy
  
  tom hunter , yes health care like any other service such as the Judiciary , Police, and armed services etc ,etc needs money and needs to live within their means as this government is doing .
  
  What is at issue is the most effective means of delivering health care . The experience here in NZ and say Canada suggests that the best approach is a balanced mix of public and private provsion.Why that simple fact continually escapes you is beyond me . Maybe it has something to with traditional GOP economic ideology ?
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:30am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Tom Hunter:
    
    I’ve often argued that you have to have both a private and a public heathcare system (why morons are either unable or unwilling to read what I write is something beyond my control).
    
    Stephie:
    
    The experience here in NZ and say Canada suggests that the best approach is a balanced mix of public and private provsion. Why that simple fact continually escapes you is beyond me .
    
    Game set and match to Tom
    
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    August 30, 2016 10:56am
- tom hunter
  
  Hiding the cost aspect is becoming harder to pull off…
  
  I had made this remark at a time when those sorts of decisions were becoming more public, and more controversial.
  
  Before the internet, most people had no way of knowing whether there were other treatments than the ones their doctors recommended, so as long as doctors only prescribed treatments that were approved, the government could maintain the fiction that there was no calculation going on.
  
  The Internet strikes again, although she points out that it’s simply making possible the sort of information exposure and exchange that has happened in America for a long time now:
  
  because most doctors take a lot of different kind of insurance, and they don’t know what will be covered until after they’ve discussed treatment options. So Americans could hear about a treatment, find out it wasn’t covered, get outraged, and call their congressman. This may be one reason that our system is so expensive.
  
  There are going to be more Herceptin’s in the future in places outside the USA
  
  But it’s getting harder for everyone to conceal the calculations; information travels faster, and patients are better organized. Both New Zealand and Britain, for example, had big controversies over the cancer drug Herceptin, which cost a lot of money, but could be life-saving for people with certain forms of early-stage breast cancer.
  
  Health authorities made decisions that minimized cost, rather than erring on the side of eradicating the cancer. And in both cases, they were forced to back off those decisions.
  
  Which will increasingly pose a real problem for systems such as ours.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:37am
- Kimbo
  
  Maybe. It is certainly a factor that defenders of the public system use to shame doubters.
  
  However, I think the primary reason Kiwis are naturally averse to a privatised system alone or even as the primary provider for health and schools (Americans too with public schools) is that while they understand the market delivers the best overall results, nonetheless some due to various circumstances/shortcomings cannot do so, either from time to time or permanently.
  
  If you are unable to participate in the market sufficiently to purchase an iphone or vehicle, that is inconvenient. But if you cannot afford healthcare when you need it, or education then you are fucked.
  
  Having said that, the privatised American system is the one that is at the cutting in developing new technology and medications…primarily because it is a free enterprise system serving users prepared to pay for the services.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:40am
  - stephieboy
    
    kimbo, but I understand that the US system also features many anomalies including wasteful and needless duplication and triplication of services adding considerably to costs , federal subsidies and of course the simple fact a sizable section of the population who simply can’t afford the premiums . Premiums that also don’t cover for every contingency especially long term care and provision for traumatic accident and disease .
    
    However, all this might be wrong therefore it can be considered your duty to do some advocacy work here to enable it ‘s implementation here .
    
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    August 30, 2016 9:51am
  - SGA
    
    “Having said that, the privatised American system is the one that is at the cutting in developing new technology and medications…primarily because it is a free enterprise system serving users prepared to pay for the services.”
    
    Not exactly – the US military also is at the cutting edge of technology and it’s not free enterprise system.
    
    I’d guess that the lion’s share of developments in health technology and medication come not from the health “services” per se, but from private drug/biotech companies and the universities – and, for the latter in particular, a lot of that is publicly funded by government granting agencies.
    
    The US military gets a lot of its research done in a similar private company/tertiary sector way (they themselves do fund certain university research with promise to them – I don’t know it, but I bet that places like CalTech and MIT get a share, for example – and that is public money, or course).
    
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    August 30, 2016 10:33am
minus

Happychappy mentions Nicky Hager.
Who remembers that Nicky Hager, when he had his home searched for evidence of goods stolen from Cameron Slater (although Hager had written a whole book as a result of the theft) objected saying that among things taken from his home was material he was researching on Police corruption?
A Hager book is yet to emerge on this subject.
So –
1) the corruption could not have been either very serious, extensive, or the need to attend to it wasn’t at all urgent
2) it wasn’t important enough to refer to any proper authority, or
3) it didn’t exist
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August 30, 2016 9:06am
- mikenmild
  
  Or:
  4) there is more research to be done
  5) the research did not lead to anything worth publishing
  6) Hager has moved on to another topic
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:11am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    or
    7) Timing
    
    Why would you publish anything politically explosive midway through an election cycle?
    Folks have short memories.
    
    If nothing appears in the next 6-9 months, then go back to reasons 1-6.
    
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    August 30, 2016 9:18am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    As indeed he did mikenmild; the Panama Papers, which had about as much impact on the political landscape as any of his other “exposes”.
    
    I suspect now that most people, when Hager’s name is mentioned, simply roll their eyes and think “What now?” or “Not him again”. He’s a bit like the boy who cried “wolf” once too often.
    
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    August 30, 2016 9:24am
    - Kimbo
      
      …except if you are a lazy/lemming journalist (is there any other kind?!) wanting to regurgitate his press releases or market a made-up scandal, especially surrounding an election campaign.
      
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      August 30, 2016 9:57am
- burt
  
  The research pointed to systemic protection of labour party people so he’s decided It’s not in the public interest to proceed.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:17am
  - mikenmild
    
    I’m not sure Hager would be that interested in protecting Labour party reputations. Greens – maybe.
    
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    August 30, 2016 9:26am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Don’t Hager the Horrible’s books tend to arrive a month before each election?
  
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  August 30, 2016 12:13pm
waikatogirl

A herd of 500 dairy cows has been stolen from near Ashburton. That is 10 cattle truck loads.

How on earth does someone rustle 500 cows without anyone noticing?
How do you hide 500 cows with ear tags that follow a paper trail?
Are they already on a ship somewhere?
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August 30, 2016 9:17am
- burt
  
  The Peoples Farm has confiscated them. Welcome to New Venezuela.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:37am
Notsofast

..
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August 30, 2016 9:32am
RF

For the first time ever I agree with a comment made on the Standard. One of the supporters has described Angry Andrew as being a robot. By George he’s got it !!!!!!! Little looks and acts like a robot. Zilch personality.

The standard people are like headless chooks going through the entrails of the Roy Morgon trying to find signs that might show them lifting 1%.
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August 30, 2016 9:46am
- waikatogirl
  
  A robot is much too animated. He is very wooden.
  Trouble is his attempt at smiling only made it worse, like a jack-o-lantern come to life. Now he is losing his hair at an increased rate, that certainly doesn’t improve his look.
  We can’t help how we look, but he has put himself in a public position that demands connection with voters. Odd choice LP.
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:59am
starboard

Lol..maori king *snigger..chortle *

Lol..willie jackson * bigger snigger..bigger chortle*

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/manukau-courier/83699675/jackson-maori-kings-speech-fits-the-script
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August 30, 2016 9:49am
RalphT

“6) Hager has moved on to another topic”
Fat chance. What’s the bet he’ll come out with something next August? If it has the same effect as last time then I hope so. I suspect he’s not the kind to twig that it was counterproductive and will keep plugging away/banging his head against a brick wall.
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August 30, 2016 9:54am
cas

With all these armed robberies, why can’t someone invent a trip wire which is concealed in a groove between the doors and which could be activated to rise out of the ground when the attackers attempt to flee.
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August 30, 2016 9:57am
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Electrify it as well. Unfortunately Health and Safety would not allow it – someone could get hurt.
  
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  August 30, 2016 10:02am
- starboard
  
  Just make it legal to shoot rangi in the back as he’s stumbling out the door with your ciggies and chewing gum.
  
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  August 30, 2016 10:16am
Jack5

Is a Stephiestani uprising imminent?

One person of sub-continent origin, Roshan Nauhria, has announced he is setting up the New Zealand People’s Party, which intends to look after Chinese and Indian voters.

Here’s what Nauria is reported by Radio NZ as saying:

“I think crime is one of the biggest issues for our people … we are targeted more or less everywhere.”

Radio NZ reports Mr Nauhria said the party had broad-based support from people who were traditionally Labour and National voters.

It’s all backfiring on the “open the doors” Lefties and liberals who thought multiculturism was a path to socialist Utopia.

The new citizens apparently will want no more mandy-pandy nonsense such as free university education for convicts, no more talk of extending the age of youth court coverage to 19 (which would mean lighter sentences for most king-hitters), no more police guns locked away in car boots, no more softness towards crime.

The multiculturism con. isn’t working out even for the lefty-liberals behind it.

At least the guy hasn’t said he wants separate, race-based seats.
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August 30, 2016 10:05am
- EAD
  
  It’s all backfiring on the “open the doors” Lefties and liberals who thought multiculturism was a path to socialist Utopia.
  
  But aren’t “rightwingers” like John Key, Merkel, Cameron, Turnbull, Cameron (what do they have in common?) etc. the biggest proponents of mass 3rd world immigration?
  
  Or are they taking orders from some higher power? If so, whom is acting against the interests of Gentile countries?
  
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  August 30, 2016 10:18am
  - Jack5
    
    EAD: I’m not sure what a “Gentile country” is.
    
    How would you class brave little Israel?
    
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    August 30, 2016 10:24am
    - Kimbo
      
      EAD: I’m not sure what a “Gentile country” is.
      
      Judenrein/Judenfrei?
      
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      August 30, 2016 10:53am
    - EAD
      
      How would I class Israel?
      
      Well with her nuclear weapons, billions upon billions of aid and military technology from the US, her zero refugee policy and ability to have all ZOG governments fight wars on her behalf……… “Brave” is the last thing that comes to mind.
      
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      August 30, 2016 9:09pm
  - Grant
    
    Or are they taking orders from some higher power? If so, whom is acting against the interests of Gentile countries……
    Go on tell us EADdy. You know you want to…
    G
    
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    August 30, 2016 10:27am
    - mikenmild
      
      Is it the Jews? I like it when it’s the Jews.
      
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      August 30, 2016 10:42am
  - tom hunter
    
    … his signature physical gesture was to raise his right arm, crooked at the elbow, until his forefinger was about at eye-level, almost like a salute, and then he would utter the immortal line – “It’s de Joos”.
    
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    August 30, 2016 10:51am
    - mikenmild
      
      I think that I’ve got EAD’s point by now – the Jews are definitely a real problem. But I’m interested in hearing his proposals to solve that problem. He seems strangely shy on that point.
      
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      August 30, 2016 10:53am
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        He wants to give you a definitive answer, mm, but his thesaurus says the best synonym is final solution.
        
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        August 30, 2016 5:55pm
- MT_Tinman
  
  at least the guy hasn’t said he wants separate, race-based seats.
  
  Yet!
  
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  August 30, 2016 10:24am
stephieboy

jack 5 , not working in your humble opinion .Meanwhile, most of us continue especially in Auckland to reap its benefits contrary to you paranoid and deluded claims .

Mr Nauhria is entitled to form a political party in accordance with our laws just as much as you are (BTW what’s stopping you ?).One of his major concerns is the safety of Indian and other Dairy and small business owners who he feels police and government are not doing enough about the criminal attacks and robberies on them.
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August 30, 2016 10:24am
Jack5

Good morning Stephie A, Stephie B…. Stephie Nth. Good morning all.

I’m pleased you are overlooking this Stephiestan-India border triviality and backing Mr Nauhria.

I agree that attacks on dairy owners shouldn’t be tolerated.
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August 30, 2016 10:26am
Jack5

Anyone listen this morning, on Radio NZ’s Labour Programme to the Reserve Bank’s Assistant Governor and head of economics, John McDermott?

The Reserve Bank isn’t inspiring. Still I guess the Governments have given it limits it. Also, perhaps we expect too much of economists. They are useful, but we have put them on a high pedestal. A cynic might regard them as the latter day version of Roman haruspices, whose evidence lay in chicken guts. Economists’ evidence lies in mathematics, pseudo-mathematics, and the shaky assumption that people make rational economic decisions.

McDermott seems confident of the strength of NZ’s banks (really of Australian banks in NZ). Let’s hope he’s right.
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August 30, 2016 10:45am
- Jack5
  
  I thought the B.A. in economics mob and their economics 101 mates would be up in arms defending economists within a few minutes.
  
  It’s usually easy to wind them up.
  
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  August 30, 2016 10:55am
Manolo

Betting on the crook:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/29/wall-street-doesnt-just-see-a-hillary-win-it-sees-a-landslide.html

Wall Street is pricing in a landslide victory for Hillary Clinton, but if she starts to lag, there could be a big unwinding of stock and bond market positions, according to Bank of America Merrill Lynch’s David Woo.
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August 30, 2016 11:16am
- dave_c_
  
  Nothing but a veiled threat to frighten people to vote the bitch in.
  
  7 4
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  August 30, 2016 11:19am
  - mikenmild
    
    I’m a bit interested in the term ‘bitch’. Clinton is a ‘bitch’; Trump is a ‘bastard’. ‘Bitch’ sounds worse, somehow. Clinton must get very upset by people on Kiwiblog calling her names.
    
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    August 30, 2016 11:23am
    - stephieboy
      
      I’m sure Hillary is above puerile name calling and abuse but I’m not sure Donald is the same given his record of threatening defamation and other suits .
      
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      August 30, 2016 2:12pm
- mikenmild
  
  I’m pretty sure you could get very attractive odds by betting on Trump at the moment. I sincerely recommend you invest heavily in that opportunity, Manolo.
  I’m also pretty sure that Wall Street is not betting on it happening.
  
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  August 30, 2016 11:20am
  - Manolo
    
    Thank you, Mike. Your sound financial advice is always appreciated.
    
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    August 30, 2016 11:26am
    - mikenmild
      
      Brought to you by the EAD school of financial guidance. Don’t forget to buy gold and ammunition.
      
      7 1
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      August 30, 2016 11:35am
      - stephieboy
        
        And survivalist food rations to carry you over the imminent economic armageddon .
        
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        August 30, 2016 2:09pm
Manolo

Will these new Europeans cross the Channel and make it to the UK?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3764250/Violence-despair-making-Jungle-SUE-REID-s-filing-dispatches-Calais-15-years-camp-focus-migrants-dreaming-new-life-Britain.html
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August 30, 2016 11:25am
VicParking

The video from the failing newspaper this morning showed everything that was wrong with the unionised education system today. When the wonderful Eliza MacCartney attended Belmont school the kids had to sit in silence as teachers prowled the side of the hall waiting for her to arrive.
With no sense of the moment the Headmaster spent 5 minutes explaining who was coming and the childern had to it in silence when she came on stage. Little has changed since I attended Intermediate in the 1960’s with evan the uniforms, prowling teachers and a headmaster full of his own voice exactly the same. Subjugation not education.
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August 30, 2016 11:26am
- Left Right and Centre
  
  Uniforms – I notice polo shirts are popular with intermediates. With casual styles shorts.
  Polo shirts. And Crocs. Crimes against humanity.
  
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  August 31, 2016 2:18am
Manolo

Black on black murder. Where is the Messiah?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-august-most-violent-shootings-chicago-20160829-story.html

Tavon was among more than 400 people shot in Chicago this month. There have been 84 homicides, marking August as the most violent month in the city in 20 years, according to data collected by the Tribune. And there are two more days to go.
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August 30, 2016 11:50am
Manolo

How will it end?
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-08-29/u-s-election-wrap-clinton-weaknesses-spotlighted-in-new-poll-isgl7jgb
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August 30, 2016 12:34pm
Keeping Stock

Newshub is putting the boot into Labour and Michael Wood, Labour’s “candidate” for Mt Roskill, where there may or may not be a by-election coming up.

The candidate who will benefit from the Labour-Green deal in Mount Roskill has hypocrite written all over him.

Michael Wood supposedly hates dirty electorate deals. In fact these very words came from his mouth just two years ago.

“We are calling for a straight contest and an end to the dodgy deals.”

Wood stood for Epsom at the last election. Epsom. The home of the dirty deal.

And boy, did he tell everyone about it.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/opinion/opinion-labour-hypocrisy-over-mount-roskill-dirty-deal-2016083011

But wait, as they say in the infomercials; there’s more:

Now the Greens look likely to stand down their potential candidate who’d run against him in Mount Roskill as part of the Memorandum of Understanding. (This is assuming Phil Goff wins the Auckland mayoralty, resigns as an MP, and forces a by-election).

It’s not the first time Wood has been in the headlines. Earlier this year, National’s candidate Parmjeet Parmar accused Mr Wood’s partner Julie Fairey – who works for Auckland Council – of blocking her from attending citizenship ceremonies.

An analysis of the party vote shows Parmar is a serious threat, with National more popular than Labour.

Barry Coates stood there for the Greens at the last election and got 1682 votes. There is also a new Indian Party starting up that will undoubtedly steal votes off the major parties messing things up.

It won’t be easy for Wood – he needs the “dirty deal” he once supposedly despised.

Kudos to Jenna Lynch from Newshub for calling this for what it is. Little asking the Greens to stand aside in Mt Roskill, IF there is a by-election, is every bit as bad as the deals that Labour and the Greens (and Paddy Gower) condemn when they are between National and Act or UF.

But in Labour’s case it is far worse, and Michael Wood, previously best known for wanting to rid Botany of penis lollies, is exposed as an utter hypocrite. It’s going to be fun watching Labour and their bride, the Greens try to weasel their way out of this.
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August 30, 2016 12:35pm
Jack5

India is warning female foreign visitors not to wear short dresses and skirts.

The PC mob won’t go after India as it went after France over the burkini bans.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/29/india-female-tourists-skirts-safety-advice
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August 30, 2016 12:51pm
- mikenmild
  
  It’s probably a good idea to respect local dress codes when travelling, as the article notes is advised by the UK. That seems to me to be a little different from forcing women to wear less clothes at the beach.
  
  3 3
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  August 30, 2016 1:03pm
  - Jack5
    
    Perhaps the French should just ban women from the beaches then, if they don’t meet local dress codes.
    
    4 0
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    August 30, 2016 1:25pm
  - Longknives
    
    “It’s probably a good idea to respect local dress codes..”
    
    Unless of course you are Islamic and you can just force your own Archaic dress code on whichever unfortunate Country you land in..
    
    14 0
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    August 30, 2016 1:55pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Can you explain to me how Muslim women wearing hijabs or burkinis are forcing anything on anyone?
      
      2 14
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      August 30, 2016 2:07pm
      - Albert_Ross
        
        They’re not, but the message they are sending by wearing them is a rude one.
        
        The reasoning behind wearing such clothing is that revealing more of oneself is to invite uncontrollable lust from men, which is rude to men. It also implies a belief that women who don’t cover up in this way are seeking men’s sexual attention, which is rude to women.
        
        However, it’s not, and should not be, illegal to be rude. Rudeness should be dealt with by social rather than legal means, ie by courteous clarity as to what social norms and expectations are.
        
        In this particular case, by making it clear that women in our society are protected from unwanted sexual attention by the good manners and self-restraint of most men, backed up by the law, so that there is no need for them to impose such inconvenience on themselves in order to obtain such protection.
        
        Attempting to use the law to ban such dress is entirely counterproductive. It makes the wearing of it into an act of heroic, defiant resistance to oppression, as opposed to a pitiable, pointless and misguided choice.
        
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        August 30, 2016 2:23pm
      - Left Right and Centre
        
        They are a visual advertisement of their puritanical belief that a woman showing any skin is sinful.
        The implication being – show skin, you sin.
        
        And who needs that shit spoiling their view ?
        
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        August 31, 2016 2:25am
stephieboy

Longknives , Muslim here don’t enforce their dress codes here nor do they force Westerners like you and me to do the same in their own country .India is also no different whether Hindu or Muslim .

Except that both Western women and men are asked to be modest in their dress and not skimpy as we are with familiar here that the likes of you might wish like to perv over .
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August 30, 2016 2:06pm
- Longknives
  
  “Muslim here don’t enforce their dress codes here nor do they force Westerners like you and me to do the same in their own country”
  
  Really? You are something else Pal!
  
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  August 30, 2016 2:39pm
All_on_Red

Lol at Creepyboy giving a lecture on perving!
13 2
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August 30, 2016 2:26pm
Longknives

This is about as much a Race-Based ‘Hate Crime’ as you can get-

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11701723

Why no outcry from Michelle Obama and co over this one?
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August 30, 2016 2:37pm
Manolo

Censoring tweets?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/08/29/bias-alert-cnn-scrubs-crooked-from-trump-tweet.html

CNN ensured a Sunday night Donald Trump statement about Hillary Clinton wasn’t “crooked” – but that might be the entire problem for the news network.

A tweet from the Republican presidential candidate appeared to be edited and scrubbed of the word “crooked” when a graphic on Trump was shown Sunday night. The only word omitted from the tweet was part of Trump’s infamous descriptor for his Democratic opponent, whom he almost unfailingly calls “Crooked Hillary.”
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August 30, 2016 2:42pm
mikenmild

It must be time to see which Christian saint we should venerate today.
St Fiacre

St Faro allowed Fiacre as much land as he might entrench in one day with a furrow; Fiacre turned up the earth with the point of his staff, toppling trees and uprooting briers and weeds. A suspicious woman hastened to tell Faro that he was being beguiled and that this was witchcraft. Faro, however, recognized that this was the work of God. From this point on it is said St Fiacre barred women, on pain of severe bodily infirmity, from the precincts of his monastery.

Charming.

St Fiacre had a reputation for healing haemorrhoids, which were called “Saint Fiacre’s figs” in the Middle Ages. Cardinal Richelieu visited the saint’s relics hoping for relief from this illness.

Not a complete pain in the arse, then.

His reputed aversion to women is believed to be the reason he is known as the patron saint of venereal disease sufferers.
4 5
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August 30, 2016 2:44pm
- Inandout
  
  And the Muslim saint of clitoris removal is?
  
  8 2
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  August 30, 2016 3:00pm
  - stephieboy
    
    Likely the same as the Christian one .
    
    http://www.monitor.co.ug/artsculture/Reviews/Female-circumcision–Uganda-still-has-a-long-way/691232-2614430-m6ytpoz/index.html
    
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    August 30, 2016 3:13pm
    - Jack5
      
      The difference between Muslim genital mutilators and the Uganda nativist mutilators your link reveals is that Uganda jails people caught doing the mutilating.
      
      3 0
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      August 30, 2016 10:28pm
  - mikenmild
    
    Don’t be silly: everyone knows that only the Pope can ask God to make someone a saint.
    
    4 4
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    August 30, 2016 3:14pm
- nasska
  
  Should be a fair old knees-up amongst the boy botherers tomorrow Mike. August 31st is the day of St. Dominic del Val who is the patron of altar boys, acolytes and choirboys.
  
  “In the name of The Father, The Son & The Holy Ghost let me feel your bottom”. 🙂
  
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  August 30, 2016 3:05pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Are you planning on wearing a frock tomorrow, to mark the occasion, Nasska?
    
    11 0
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    August 30, 2016 3:18pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Astonishingly, I think the Pope has yet to get around to nominating a patron saint for transvestites.
      
      5 3
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      August 30, 2016 3:21pm
      - Griff
        
        Harry it is apparently only waiting to die to take that position mike.
        
        4 3
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        August 30, 2016 3:40pm
    - nasska
      
      I’ll give it a miss Nostra. The poor wee mites have enough to contend with now. 🙂
      
      8 1
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      August 30, 2016 3:22pm
    - mikenmild
      
      I see this St Dominic was a victim of an imaginary Jewish ritual murder.
      Maybe nasska could burn down a synagogue to commemorate the occasion.
      
      3 3
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      August 30, 2016 3:24pm
      - nasska
        
        ….”I see this St Dominic was a victim of an imaginary Jewish ritual murder.”….
        
        I’ll get EAD on to it immediately! 🙂
        
        7 1
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        August 30, 2016 3:26pm
Manolo

I can almost see Johnboy giving a sermon to some ewes. No comment on his post-oration activities.
5 0
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August 30, 2016 3:23pm
- mikenmild
  
  Johnboy will be waiting for 22 October, the feast of Wendelin, patron saint of shepherds (and lanolin).
  
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  August 30, 2016 3:28pm
Nostradamus

I wonder if Stephieboy agrees with one of Australia’s leading scholars on terrorism and violent extremism:

Radical Islam will come to New Zealand “soon enough” and New Zealand should prepare for its arrival, a terrorism expert has warned.

Professor Greg Barton of Deakin University, one of Australia’s leading scholars on terrorism and violent extremism, said it was inevitable that Islamic State recruitment would reach New Zealand.
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August 30, 2016 3:33pm
- mikenmild
  
  Haven’t we already had IS recruitment here? Didn’t John Key have a list of people the SIS are monitoring night and day?
  
  6 0
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  August 30, 2016 3:51pm
  - Inandout
    
    They are in Dunedin already.
    
    6 1
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    August 30, 2016 4:09pm
    - mikenmild
      
      The SIS?
      
      1 6
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      August 30, 2016 4:20pm
Nostradamus

Mikenmild:

Penny seems convinced that she’s been monitored. (I’d link directly to the comment, rather than to the thread, but it doesn’t look like Kiwiblog’s new website design allows us to.)

In order to confirm that I am one of the 88 New Zealanders who has been unlawfully spied upon by the GCSB, all that the ‘Privacy Officer’ needs to do is to go to the file which contains these SIS and Police warrants (because according to the Kitteridge Report – that is one area where the record keeping is satisfactory), and check under ‘B’ for ‘Bright’.

How hard is that?

Perhaps I could offer to come down and check it myself – but given that I was on Muldoon’s famous ‘SIS list’ as a ‘subversive’ during the 1981 Springbok Tour, and given that Head of the SIS Warren Tucker wouldn’t give me my SIS file when I requested it some time ago – I probably wouldn’t get security clearance?

Penny Bright for mayor … of … Mt Roskill?
7 0
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August 30, 2016 4:25pm
- mikenmild
  
  I would hate to think that public resources are wasted on monitoring Penny’s activities.
  
  10 0
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  August 30, 2016 4:28pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Well, better than public resources being wasted on monitoring New Zealand’s most famous public servant, surely? (I’m still waiting for Nasska to reveal details linking you to the Quarry Inn, which he promised to do!)
    
    7 0
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    August 30, 2016 5:03pm
    - nasska
      
      I’m working on it Nostra but it seems that after the goings-on at the Rural Payments Agency, a branch of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, in Lancaster House, Newcastle upon Tyne during 2008 that even our civil servants are covering their tracks very carefully.
      
      In that case it appears that they indulged in “sex in the lavatories, taken drugs, used foul language, brawled in the reception area and held break-dancing contests in working hours.”
      
      That’s when they weren’t “leaping from cabinet to cabinet in underwear and believe it or not – but the evidence exists – naked”.
      
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1521116/Civil-servants-jumped-naked-off-filing-cabinets.html
      
      I am, however, confident that the revelations I will eventually publish concerning Mike’s depraved behaviour at the Quarry Inn will make the Pom’s actions a mere bagatelle. 🙂
      
      5 0
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      August 30, 2016 5:27pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Well, I’ve witnessed some rum goings-on over the years at work, but nothing on that scale.
        
        7 0
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        August 30, 2016 6:34pm
stigie

“(I’m still waiting for Nasska to reveal details linking you to the Quarry Inn, which he promised to do!)”

Hell, im still waiting for Dad to reveal how he got trained to sniper level in the Military Nostra when i believe there is no such thing !~
5 1
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August 30, 2016 5:19pm
- Longknives
  
  Has D4J been exiled again?
  
  6 1
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  August 30, 2016 5:38pm
  - dad4justice
    
    Why is that bigot blouse?
    
    [DPF: Keep that up and you’ll be suspended again]
    
    0 0
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    August 30, 2016 6:52pm
  - dad4justice
    
    No why bb?
    
    0 0
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    August 30, 2016 6:54pm
  - big bruv
    
    D4J will be at the premier of that movie Longknives.
    
    5 1
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    August 30, 2016 7:20pm
    - RF
      
      big bruv… D4J is a rear gunner so he will be watching Ritchie’s 6.
      
      He got plenty of rear gunner practice in Hagley Park.
      
      3 0
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      August 30, 2016 7:50pm
      - dad4justice
        
        Pathetic keyboard jellyfish.
        
        0 0
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        August 30, 2016 8:10pm
renderer

A lullaby especially for Stephieboy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzIEnL8FxUE
4 0
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August 30, 2016 5:40pm
dad4justice

Great to see my bb fan club are still suffering from severe obsessive mental health problems.
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August 30, 2016 6:59pm
big bruv

Only in stupid old New Zealand would there be a movie made about a very average rugby player.

I wonder how long before we hear the lies about this movie being a world wide hit?
3 14
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August 30, 2016 7:03pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Anyone been following KDC’s hearing on Twitter?
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37217591
1 0
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August 30, 2016 7:04pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Maggy:
  
  I haven’t followed the Kim Dotcom case closely, but from what I can tell, he’s adopted contradictory positions.
  
  Position 1 – civil forfeiture case – he claims to be “constitutionally deprived” of the right to defend himself because he’s not in the US.
  
  So in 2014, the United States moved to seize Dotcom’s assets, along with those of his associates, in both countries. They won a default judgment in Virginia federal court last year.
  
  But Dotcom and his co-defendants argued that they were unconstitutionally deprived of the right to defend themselves in that civil forfeiture case.
  
  A three-judge panel of the US Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit was not persuaded, ruling that by refusing to face trial in the United States on criminal charges, Dotcom and the rest of the Megaupload team gave up their right to contest any civil proceedings.
  
  Position 2 – extradition case – he doesn’t want to stand trial in the US.
  
  Mr Dotcom has vowed that if he loses this appeal, which is expected to last six to eight weeks, he will take further legal steps to avoid standing trial in the US.
  
  It seems to me that he’s trying to butter both sides of his bread. Er, well, I hope that turn of phrase doesn’t cause anyone to have an unpleasant reaction!
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:11pm
EAD

Interesting interview with Jewish MP Luciana Berger in The Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/28/luciana-berger-i-have-been-contending-with-issues-surrounding-my-safety-and-security-for-years?CMP=twt_gu

“She developed a strong sense of social justice, basing her desire for political change on the Jewish concept of “tikkun olam” or “heal the world”. She didn’t want power. She wanted to make a difference.”

It’s funny how Israel is so lacking in “tikkun olam” isn’t it?
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August 30, 2016 7:13pm
- Reid
  
  It’s funny how Israel is so lacking in “tikkun olam” isn’t it?
  
  That’s the tell it’s not a G-d fearing nation EAD.
  
  How could a G-d fearing nation possibly act as Israel does?
  
  But people in the West brush aside that cold, hard logic. People who aren’t in the West don’t, but almost all people in the West do. Why is that, an enquiring mind might ask.
  
  But as you know, the mechanism by which this ignor-ance of cold, hard logic is achieved is by being programmed by the education system and the MSM to bring emotion into it and consider, like a Pavlovian reaction, the complete and utter naked defencelessness of poor widdle Iswael, suwwounded by a sea of merciless hatwed, every single time this observation of yours is ever voiced.
  
  And of course when you bring emotiion into it that destroys the logical thought processing in favour of anchoring the meme.
  
  Very powerful stuff, isn’t it.
  
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  August 30, 2016 7:57pm
Stars And Stripes

stephieboy 9.41am
“South Auckland is a very big area possibly bigger than the population of Christchurch . I understand Stars and Stripes live’s there and may not like to be included in your sweeping generalisation, ” what a joke of a place. ” ?”

So Taranaki is now part of South Auckland is it?.
You are even simpler than I thought.
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August 30, 2016 7:13pm
mikenmild

General irritation at the morons of 7 Sharp. Reporting from the premiere of Chasing Great, Toni breathlessly reports that the only thing needed now is a knighthood for Richie McCaw!
5 3
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August 30, 2016 7:18pm
- Left Right and Centre
  
  She’s like a really shit What Now presenter for ‘grown ups’.
  I swear that entered my head as I typed it.
  I was going to use coquettish in a sentence to describe her.
  How about c&%ntish ? That just came to me right now too – hahahahaha. Brain – you are so random.
  She inspires creativity to capture her true essence . . .
  
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  August 31, 2016 2:45am
Fletch

A Huffington Post contributor finds himself terminated without warning because of a video he made questioning Hillary’s health.

Huffington Post contributor David Seaman was abruptly terminated by the online magazine for posting a video on Sunday that questions the health of Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

But after mere hours of the article’s publication, HuffPo removed it from the site without warning. It was later when Seaman tried to log back into his account that he realized his credentials to get into the site had been revoked. He published a video response forewarning viewers to be suspicious if he ends up slipping in the shower in the coming weeks.

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/huffpo-terminates-contributor-over-post-questioning-hillarys-health

Mustn’t question Hillary. That’s a no-no if you’re part of the liberal mainstream media. You either toe the line or you’re out.
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August 30, 2016 7:34pm
- RF
  
  Fletch… It should read… You either toe the line or you are dead…..
  
  Crooked Hillary is bloody dangerous.
  
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  August 30, 2016 7:44pm
- All_on_Red
  
  No doubt Mr Seamans long held desire to commit suicide by being shot by a sniper from a low flying helicopter will soon be fulfilled!
  
  2 1
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  August 30, 2016 7:44pm
- Brigitte
  
  Now, just for devilment….
  
  What if Hillary had made Bernie her running mate. Then her (as president) dropping dead would have meant Sanders in charge.
  
  In that case, would they have canned the video and exited Mr Seaman as currently?
  
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  August 30, 2016 8:25pm
RF

Re the Police change of heart. I am aware that a victim of a burglary phoned the Police on Monday morning to be told that A. They were too busy to attend & B. It was not a priority.

Along comes Crusher Collins yesterday afternoon and now it’s all hands to the pump.

The victim is phoned and Police attend the burglary that the day before was ignored.

Good old crusher.
6 1
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August 30, 2016 7:40pm
- mikenmild
  
  I just wonder what else the police were going to do today instead of visiting that burglary victim. Have another cup of tea?
  
  5 0
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  August 30, 2016 8:51pm
  - sooty
    
    Don’t forget the doughnuts!
    
    0 0
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    August 30, 2016 9:38pm
Viking2

On a golf tour in Ireland , Tiger Woods drives his BMW into a petrol
Station in a remote part of the Irish countryside.
The pump attendant knows nothing about golf, greets him in a typical Irish
manner completely unaware of who the golfing pro is.
“Top of the mornin’ to yer, sir” says the attendant.
Tiger nods a quick “hello” and bends forward to pick up the nozzle.

As he does so, two tees fall out of his shirt pocket onto the ground.
“What are those?, asks the attendant.
“They’re called tees”replies Tiger.
“Well, what on the god’s earth are dey for?” inquires the Irishman.
“They’re for resting my balls on when I’m driving”, says Tiger.
“Fookin Jaysus”, says the Irishman,
“BMW thinks of everything.”
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August 30, 2016 8:41pm
nasska

A Muslim wife complains to her husband that all the romance had gone out of their marriage.
“Remember when you used to carry me up to
bed?” she asked. Yeah,” he replied “But be fair though, you were only nine at the time…”
12 2
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August 30, 2016 8:58pm
Brigitte

NZ chasing 400 for the win, not off to a good start….

0.1 Steyn to Latham, OUT, leaves the ball onto his stumps! Poor Latham, he had his bat hoisted up fairly high, fully intending to leave. But the extra bounce made sure the back of a length ball meant for the wicketkeeper leaps up to hit the bat and ricochet onto the stumps. Steyn simply explodes! And his team-mates huddle around him to contain his fire.

TWM Latham b Steyn 0 (1b 0x4 0x6) SR: 0.00
1 1
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August 30, 2016 9:16pm
- Brigitte
  
  and it gets worse….
  
  0.6 Steyn to Guptill, OUT, first-ball duck for Guptill too! His woes against the moving ball continue. How can he sit in a press conference and say he is nowhere near his best? Steyn, you’re pulling all our legs! This is a peach, pitching back of a length, close enough to off stump, then lurching away to take the outside edge through to Amla at first slip. Too good.
  
  MJ Guptill c Amla b Steyn 0 (1b 0x4 0x6) SR: 0.00
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:25pm
Captain Mainwaring

We should stick to playing these guys at rugby.
And what was the decision to bowl first all about?
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August 30, 2016 9:28pm
- Brigitte
  
  Well, it looks like it at the moment – we have an unconverted try (5 runs) to their penalty (3 wickets). Not sure that means we’re winning tho’
  
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  August 30, 2016 9:40pm
Manolo

Our multiculturalist would be delirious:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3764697/Britain-s-weak-borders-Police-arrest-27-000-suspected-illegal-immigrants-UK-three-years.html

More than 27,000 suspected illegal immigrants have been arrested by police over the last three years.

The scale of the arrests has triggered warnings that the state of the UK’s borders was ‘even worse’ than previously thought. The figures emerged as Home Secretary Amber Rudd dismissed threats from the French to ditch UK border checks at Calais.
1 1
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August 30, 2016 9:45pm
- Left Right and Centre
  
  UK is soft – you see programmes about their frontliners trying to deal with out of control numbers – costs a fortune to track down a limited number of them and then let down by their own stupid legal processes – deary – just find them and send them packing – duh !!
  
  1 1
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  August 31, 2016 2:37am
  - Left Right and Centre
    
    There’s an illegal immigrant right now downticking deportation – get them.
    
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    August 31, 2016 6:09am
Manolo

Future troubled places:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/syrias-suffering-families/top-destinations-syrian-refugees-michigan-california-n639481
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August 31, 2016 6:51am

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