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August 25, 2016 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 August 2016

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General Debate

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stephieboy

dime , again not having press conferences appears to work for Hillary as Trump does the work for her .

Also , I would say the voting public are not taking kindly to these continual smear attacks on her that have not come up with a shred of factual evidence .

Team Trump , just keep it up !
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August 25, 2016 11:18am
Andrei

Damn, we get rid of Bain and Lundy’s back in the discussion.

And if the crown gets a conviction in the “Stop Go” case that one will fill whatever comment threads have evolved to in 2035 🙁
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August 25, 2016 11:18am
Dave Mann

I see that the Governor General, Sir Whatsisname has retired after 5 years of doing nothing, saying nothing and sitting in a darkened room somewhere.

This is great. It shows that our constitutional system is working perfectly. I’m not aware of anything that this guy has ever done and I think this is by far preferable in a ‘head of state’ than continually wanking away like Trump and Clinton, or murdering, stealing and generally behaving like so many monarchs and presidents all over the world.

Well done whatever your name is and here’s hoping for a similar output from whoever succeeds you – if it’s a woman, though, I suppose we’ll have to be prepared for a certain amount of shrill screeching before she settles down 😀
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August 25, 2016 11:22am
Notsofast

Keeping Stock you say at 8 59, and I missed it

“”Notsofast – Lundy has twice been tried by jury, and twice found guilty of the murders of his wife and daughter, quite rightly in my ever-humble opinion. Having formerly been a long-term resident of Palmerston North I know many of the people within his social circle, and without exception, they too believe that the jury got it right on both occasions.

There will be no compensation for Lundy.””

There is a book of case facts that Mike White and Steve Braunias have read. I have a copy in my hand. It shows serial mendacity by the investigating police, missing note books, and so on. I am perfectly aware that his brother changed his name, and believes Mark is guilty. Also that some supporters left town.
How does that convert impossibilities in the case to plausibilities.
I suggest you read Braunias’s book The Scene of the Crime, and Jono Galuzka’s review. Jono attended every day of the second trial as well. I wonder what he believes at this time.
Knowing people who recall the previous Mark Lundy, will not get him to Palmerston North at that time with 30 liters too little petrol. There have been two trials where the notion of petrol in cans was never raised. At the appeal hearing Andrew Tipping informally solved the problem saying he would have had jerry cans, but this is outside his legal right to do so. That is why it did not appear in the Appeal judgement, or at the privy council.
The Whanganui case that was won in the disputes tribunal compelled the Ford spokesman in New Zealand to legally confirm what everyone knows, the production numbers for consumption cited have nothing to do with road use, but are designed to compare different vehicles in a standard fashion. Mark’s car consumed 12.4 liters per 100 on ordinary open road driving. The police have that from a measured drive Lundy had done from Putaruru to Eltham but never used it for obvious reasons. Grantham gave timing from Johnsonville roundabout to the police cordon that required an average speed of 104 km/hour, which requires a foot hard on the floor at all possible occasions, and consumption rises to 27 liters/100 km.
The odometer allowed less than 100km surplus for 11 days of KNOWN trips, 5 days of which were around Palmerston North and New Plymouth, and I bet he did very little walking to keep the beast from clocking mileage. In fact the reality is the odometer is an alibi. It works a bit like cost overruns, unexpected and forgotten items.
Then the time off death is impossible as I have explained.
I know what occurred. Mike Cummings was editor of the Manawatu standard, and in cahoots with the police they all drip fed the character assassination. Cummings knows the case facts, but must sell newspapers. It happened to Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, check on the process. It wasn’t required of course, for Tamihere or MacDonald.
Th next appeal court is bound to give full reasons for denying an appeal. I would listen to any ideas you have as to how they will validate a jury decision that flies in the face of all known facts. And the shirt evidence is being dismembered in America.
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August 25, 2016 11:25am
Griff

Time for a thread for the bainty’s DPF.
The last one did not sate their gory fascination with the details of murder.
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August 25, 2016 11:28am
Notsofast

tom hunter, it is an axiom that in the rare cases where an innocent man is locked up, the evidence is fabricated. You can’ tget around it. Clearly the material on Lundy’s shirt is not brain as he was in Petone, so it was fabricated. Grantham believes his Texan Cowboy, but no American does. The riddle is to prove it, and the matter is in hand.
An interesting feature is that Arthur Thomas will be cited, people say they wouldn’t pull that stunt again. But they do, by hammering all the square pegs into round holes.
Now, why was the blood on Robin’s hands not tested? Why was the sample destroyed at the first opportunity?
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August 25, 2016 11:34am
Manolo

Tony Blair is always right. The populace better listen.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3756765/Tony-Blair-insists-mass-immigration-GOOD-Britain-won-t-rule-calling-EU-referendum.html

Tony Blair has insisted immigration has been good for Britain as he again suggested there should be a second EU referendum.
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August 25, 2016 11:42am
stephieboy

Notsofast , why the blood on Robin’s hands not tested ? Simply because the amount was too minuscule for a sampling to be made !

Detective Mark Lodge and Mr. Henstchel on the blood evidence

The blood evidence from Robin’s hands gathered by Detective Mark Lodge and forensic scientist Mr. Henstchel is as follows.

smear of blood on heal of thumb inside left hand

smear of blood on left little finger

no blood on right hand

splash of blood on nail of second right finger

spot of blood on outside of left thunb

scrapings from under Robins fingernails containing possible blood, were also noted by Mr. Hentschel.

Robin’s hands were also inspected by a detective in charge of the victims, who found dirt around the fingernails and in the creases of his hands. They did not appear to have been washed.

31 October 2000

Minister of Justice

APPLICATION FOR ROYAL PREROGATIVE OF MERCY:

DAVID CULLEN BAIN

Section 4.4 – Failure to preserve and analyze blood found on Robin Bain’s hand

112. The petitioner alleges that the Police and ESR failed to analyze blood stains on Robin’s hands and possibly under his fingernails. He claims that, had this been done, it may have indicated that the blood was from other family members, and that Robin had been involved in the killings.

113. As noted above, at trial defense counsel cross examined Dr Dempster on the identity of the blood on Robin’s hands, and drew the admission that the blood stain on the left index fingernail had never been analyzed. However, ESR case notes (taken by Mr Hentschel) indicate other samples from Robin’s hands, including swabs taken from Robin’s left little finger, and the base of his thumb, and scrapings from under his fingernails revealed insufficient blood for grouping to be made.
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August 25, 2016 11:49am
Maggy Wassilieff

Broadcasting Standard breached by MediaWorks

Was the Prime Minister really meant to recognize that this was a rape scenario?

http://bsa.govt.nz/decisions/latest
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August 25, 2016 12:31pm
Jack5

Here’s another topic that might generate a few posts…

The Guardian, which is reported to be in a slow death-bleed of cash, features an attack on the old British empire and colonialism, and I guess, by implication that would cover non-Maori New Zealanders. Looks like that some immigrants from the old empire don’t so much want to become English men and English women, but to change English people culturally to line up with the Third World unaligned cultures.

The writer is Kehinde Andrews, an associate professor (that is lecturer) in sociology at Birmingham City University. The Guardian describes his research specialism as race and racism.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/24/colonial-nostalgia-horrors-of-empire-britain-olympic

Footnote: The Guardian reported an annual operating loss of about 180 million NZ dollars.
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August 25, 2016 12:39pm
Kimbo

tom hunter, it is an axiom that in the rare cases where an innocent man is locked up, the evidence is fabricated. You can’ tget around it. Clearly the material on Lundy’s shirt is not brain as he was in Petone, so it was fabricated.

…anyone need a model example of circular reasoning?

Oh, yeah and as per my previous observation on the liberal use of adverbs to rhetorically paper over bullshit arguments, note the unmerited yet condescending use of “clearly”. Plus the equivalent confection, “it is an axiom”

Kimbo, you miss the point. 200k would not get him close to…

Priceless irony! Close to….getting 200k?!
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August 25, 2016 12:55pm
Johnboy

STOP PRESS:

Sickly white liberals on Kapiti council suck up to special folk! 🙂

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/83262209/kapiti-coast-proposes-to-create-noscattering-zones-for-the-ashes-of-loved-ones

Elections not far away Kapiti chaps? 🙂
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August 25, 2016 1:11pm
Johnboy

Seeing as how Kapiti is recognised as Gods waiting room for the Wellington area I expect a huge alteration to the tenure of the incumbents come the election! 🙂
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August 25, 2016 1:16pm
- tom hunter
  
  Testing, testing….
  
  May the diseases of a thousand mangy ewes rot your testicles. 🙂
  
  UPDATE:
  Hey – it worked, not like the one I dumped in at 1:41pm. That was really gross.
  
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  August 25, 2016 2:01pm
Manolo

The demise of American journalism:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/08/22/folks-in-this-election-youre-watching-complete-collapse-american-journalism-as-know-it.html?intcmp=ob_article_sidebar_video&intcmp=obnetwork
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August 25, 2016 2:00pm
Don the Kiwi

The religion of peace in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOfn-8OKVL0
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August 25, 2016 2:01pm
Jack5

Kiwiblog has been gentrified.

I feel awkward posting, sitting before the computer without a tie on.

The newspaper tradition has moved to blogs: as soon as people get used to layout, then change all type faces, layout, and so on. Don’t let the mugs get complacent.

Got to admit though, this layout looks good.

But please don’t put up a paywall, DPF.
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August 25, 2016 2:03pm
Johnboy

I like all the huge expanse of White! 🙂

The small amount of blue interspersed with black seems to suit my new found political allegiance as well!
So far 9/10 ! 🙂

ps: The spell check still helps my dyslexia too! 🙂
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August 25, 2016 2:07pm
David Garrett

It’s bloody awful! I guess I am a true conservative…resistant to change unless there is a damn good reason…and two comments on this thread just disappeared…let’s see how this one goes…OK, that worked…guess I will just have to get used to it…
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August 25, 2016 2:10pm
- big bruv
  
  I agree, I much prefer the old set up.
  
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  August 25, 2016 2:14pm
- AgentBallSack
  
  I like the ability to reply. Not so sure about the page set up
  
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  August 25, 2016 2:16pm
  - David Garrett
    
    blah blah test…Oh I see…same set up as Whaleoil…unecessary in my view…replies can easily be added to the main thread thus:
    
    johnboy: xxxx
    
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    August 25, 2016 2:21pm
    - tom hunter
      
      Hmmmm – what if you want to roll up a bunch of replies to save scrolling?
      
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      August 25, 2016 2:26pm
- Liberty
  
  It’s a big improvement. Long overdue
  
  Thank you David for the improvements.
  
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  August 25, 2016 3:13pm
chiz

Succinct summary of the day:

Mr. Trump’s brain is a pincushion for conspiracy theories […]
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August 25, 2016 2:11pm
howitis

Well Notsofast.
I see your arguments for Lundy.
Others say there were two trials.
In theory yes.
In reality no.

The cops completely made up the ‘drive at 1000 mph to Palmy in peak traffic and dressed in drag but was recognised by a person who was also a psychic woooooh, and the wife was in bed at 7pm against all known patterns’ fantasy.

The first so called trial was complete crap and made up of perjury. I was arguing with an ex ESR person a few years ago. He insisted it was all true. What a dick! No-one could replicate the fantasy car trip at 5pm on a weekday. Even if the spirit of Sterling Moss inhabited Lundy’s body for a few hours (fits with psychic garbage) it could not be done in that car with its brakes and steering system with the volume of traffic and no-one calling *555.

The cops on the stand in the first ‘trial’ should be up for perjury. They made up shit. Pure and simple. No one questioned why after all their investigation they did not present argument No2 in the first place. At least it had some plausibility unlike fairytale No1 for which Lundy was wrongly convicted.

Mark Lundy has to be a valid suspect.
It may be he is guilty but the multiple stories the cops made up leave room for reasonable doubt.
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August 25, 2016 2:11pm
- Notsofast
  
  Nice to get a sprinkling of support Howitis.
  That is the problem. The appeal court were encouraged to believe that story by John Pike QC and made a declaratively false statement in saying the jury were entitled to believe he could average 120 kph on the return trip. The true figure is 90 kph with the foot flat to the boards whenever possible. Grantham lied about the time of arrival at the cordon to stretch that to 104 kph to help his case. He knows exactly what he did. Perjury is exactly right, and private prosecutions would succeed in a fair judicial regime.
  The alternative theory is in fact just as bad, as Lundy never left the foreshore motel, he was snoring after rum coke and escort.
  
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  August 25, 2016 5:07pm
jms

Sure gives the scroll wheel a work-out!

Don’t like that it creates a new page after every 100 comments.
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August 25, 2016 2:12pm
RalphT

I must confess that I am a bit like DG, and like my websites to stay the same. Still there is the comforting thought that we still have the ads for incontinence underwear.
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August 25, 2016 2:13pm
AgentBallSack

Yikes
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August 25, 2016 2:14pm
chiz

Shocking new claims about Hillary’s health problems:

Although she has gone to extraordinary lengths to distract and deceive American voters, the truth is finally coming out: Hillary Clinton has an 11th toe.

I don’t have the medical records. She refuses to release them. But just try to come up with some other explanation for why she’s so infrequently photographed in sandals or flip-flops; why she seldom appears barefoot in public; why, during debates, she keeps her legs, especially the lower halves, tucked carefully behind the lectern.

She’s covering something up, and it’s that freakish, disqualifying digit.

Have you watched her walk? Look closely. She wobbles a bit, or maybe it’s more of a teeter, combined with a lurch, and the likeliest cause is podiatric asymmetry. I consulted foot specialists. At least they referred to themselves that way online, and when I assured them that an interview with me could be their springboard to Sean Hannity, they opened up.

[..]
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August 25, 2016 2:14pm
David Garrett

It’s still better than the Whaleoil site..I don’t bother commenting there any more…I just find the site too “clunky”…I think I can get used to this haaarrumph!!
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August 25, 2016 2:15pm
lilman

Yes Stephie make no mistake the truth,Hillary the koran and you all have no concept of the Truth.
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August 25, 2016 2:17pm
mikenmild

Haaarrumph?
I think you meant pshaaw.
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August 25, 2016 2:17pm
rightoverlabour

I dont know the details of the Lundy Case, but if he is innocent, that means there is a psychopath out there that has not been apprehended. The question is then, why has he/she /it not struck again? Secondly, why did Lundy go miles away to bang a hooker? Are there no local ones in Palmy? I don’t quite know why some men use the services of these woman, but surely you would use ones reseonably close by? Lastly, ( and I suspect the reason why the police suspected him in the first place ) was his strange change in demeanor after the murder and funeral. It may be true that the scientific eveidence and police procedures were suspect, but these three questions remain.
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August 25, 2016 2:19pm
- Notsofast
  
  Who killed Scott Guy?
  Who killed George Taiora?
  The police refuse to investigate the former and may be wrong with Winders in the latter. If he is found not guilty they will say they are looking for nobody else.
  
  At the crime scene morning a police woman is known to have asked. What man would do that to his wife and daughter? Kelly told Lundy in his arrest interview we suspected you from day one.
  
  He was on a sales trip in Wellington and stayed the night in Petone while P thugs broke in and killed his family in pursuit of a misunderstood debt.
  
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  August 25, 2016 5:14pm
- Chris_Halkides
  
  One, it may not have been a psychopath (I suggest it was not). Two, Lundy was away on business (I seem to recall he made this trip every two weeks or so). Three, Lundy fainted at the funeral, and people find that suspicious. Lindy Chamberlain seemed cold and distant, and people found that suspicious. It seems like when you are a suspect, you just can’t win. Moreover, the police suspected him from day one, long before there was any demeanor evidence (tunnel vision and confirmation bias were at play IMO). Amber’s stomach contents are inconsistent with the TOD from the 2015 trial. The second trial was less ridiculous than the first, but that is a low bar. I’ll take hard evidence over demeanor every day of the week.
  
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  August 27, 2016 2:59am
Don the Kiwi

Hillary Campaign Chairman Tied to Russian Lobby
Podesta Group did Putin PR work.
8.22.2016 | News | Brian Lilley |

While much has been made of the tie between Donald Trump’s now former campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Russian autocrat Vladimir Putin, less has been made of the ties between Hillary Clinton’s campaign and pro-Putin forces in Ukraine. Manafort, who stepped down as Trump’s campaign chairman on Friday, previously worked for the pro-Russian president of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukoych.

But according to the Associated Press, so too did a firm founded and at that point headed up by Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager John Podesta — all thanks to a contract from Manafort.

Manafort and business associate Rick Gates, another top strategist in Trump’s campaign, were working in 2012 on behalf of the political party of Ukraine’s then-president, Viktor Yanukovych.

People with direct knowledge of Gates’ work said that, during the period when Gates and Manafort were consultants to the Ukraine president’s political party, Gates was also helping steer the advocacy work done by a pro-Yanukovych nonprofit that hired a pair of Washington lobbying firms, Podesta Group Inc. and Mercury LLC.

While the reports from AP point to nothing illegal, the ties between Manafort, Podesta and Putin do raise questions about the relationship of Clinton’s campaign to the Russian autocrat, especially as they try to tie Trump to Putin.
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August 25, 2016 2:22pm
Johnboy

I hope you never said “pshaaw” because the new colours remind you of a certain rugby club Milkey! 🙂
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August 25, 2016 2:22pm
jms

Adopted a Whaleoil type reply setup I see. So comments are no longer in chronological order. That gets unwieldy with more than 20 or so comments.

The whole change is a bit New Coke.
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August 25, 2016 2:25pm
- Rachel Cunliffe
  
  We’ve kept the commenting system exactly the same rather than switching to Disqus (which WhaleOil uses), however in the old theme the reply link was broken (as were the comments pagination).
  
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  August 25, 2016 2:26pm
Rachel Cunliffe

There are buttons linking to the pages at the bottom under the heading “More comments”.
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August 25, 2016 2:27pm
jms

After 100 comments it creates a new page. You have to click back to page 1 at the bottom. 🙁
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August 25, 2016 2:27pm
Johnboy

Thank goodness that “Pad free and fully washable” has survived the makeover! 🙂
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August 25, 2016 2:27pm
David Garrett

JMS: quite so…perhaps our gracious host could pioneer a two format set up: “KB Classic” for the more hidebound traditionalists among us: “KB New!” for those constantly in need of change…
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August 25, 2016 2:27pm
Johnboy

As long as NW can show her bristles on either format I don’t care DG! 🙂
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August 25, 2016 2:31pm
- David Garrett
  
  You’d have to be a better man than me to handle Wahine in full bristle JB!
  
  One of her favourite stories involves Hone the Racist, who somehow came to know Wahine and I are good friends…Apparently Hone made the mistake of bailing Wahine up at some tribal function and saying ” I hear you are a friend of David Garrett’s?”
  
  Her Reply: “Yeah…And?”
  
  Hone: “Aw nothing…just wondered that’s all”
  
  But then Hone is used to being pussy whipped…
  
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  August 25, 2016 2:39pm
  - Johnboy
    
    Half my flock are black sheep DG.
    I’ve never had a black Queen Bee though. 🙂
    
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    August 25, 2016 2:46pm
Manolo

The Clinton mafia come from Arkansas:
http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2016/aug/24/a-pattern-emerges-20160824/

There’s a big difference between the Clinton Foundation and the Clinton Family Foundation, or at least we’re told. Who says words don’t mean anything? Like somebody, maybe Mark Twain, once said, a word can mean the difference between a lightning bug and lightning.
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August 25, 2016 2:34pm
Shunda barunda

What happened!!!
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August 25, 2016 2:39pm
Dave Mann

God I really don’t like this new site design, DPG, sorry!

I can’t quickly go to posts or navigate the site and I can’t zoom in or out.

I can understand that you want a fresh look… but this doesn’t do it fir me, I’m sorry! God…. 🙁
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August 25, 2016 2:39pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  You can zoom if you use chrome? The top right”hamburger” button has a zoom feature
  
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  August 25, 2016 3:27pm
  - VicParking
    
    Also dont like this new layout. But I also did not like those horseless carrage thingees or that talking box thing mum called a Wadeo.
    
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    August 25, 2016 4:47pm
Manolo

Iran’s mullahs are having a wank:
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-37176313

An extraordinary eight-minute music video/revenge fantasy called “We are standing to last drop of blood” has been regularly shown on on Iran’s national TV this month, setting social media buzzing.

The film shows patriotic youths magically destroying an American invasion fleet which has targeted an idyllic Iranian seaside town and its peaceful nuclear power plant. When the civilians come under unprovoked attack the Iranian heroes unite to use the power of their national flag to create a tsunami that destroys the US ships and aircraft.

It ends with dozens of American corpses floating in the ocean while tranquil order has returned to the idyllic seaside town and peaceful nuclear power plant. Subtle it is not.
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August 25, 2016 2:41pm
emmess

Is my comment gone which I posted just after the new site design went live?
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August 25, 2016 2:42pm
- David Garrett
  
  emmess: I had two comments disappear…there was a transition period before all the features were working…I’m afraid your pearls of wisdom are probably lost to posterity…Actually to my considerable surprise, I am getting the hang of this..
  
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  August 25, 2016 2:45pm
- Johnboy
  
  Indeed emness and I can’t remember what I said so I can repost it!
  
  All you benighted bastards will somehow have to survive in ignorance without my words of wisdom. 🙂
  
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  August 25, 2016 2:49pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Holy Moly

I thought someone had laced my cup of tea with something very very strong.
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August 25, 2016 2:50pm
- Shunda barunda
  
  Me too, it’s all a bit scary really!
  
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  August 25, 2016 2:52pm
Griff

Wow this will really upset the conservatives .
Change Mutter Mutter dont like change.
Too soon and too shinny new for an opinion.
Like updating operating systems will take time to reorientation.
Threaded debate has its upside.
You will not lose comments among the clutter.
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August 25, 2016 2:54pm
- Shunda barunda
  
  Why do you like looking at the left side of your monitor so much?
  Hmmmmmmmm
  
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  August 25, 2016 2:58pm
  - Inandout
    
    I keep left obviously when driving, but with this new format I tend to push the text rightwards in my mind. That way I keep my sanity.
    
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    August 25, 2016 3:06pm
- David Garrett
  
  I guess you just have a cone or two Griff…and the change is all coool man…(“dude” is it, these days?)
  
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  August 25, 2016 2:59pm
  - Griff
    
    Yesssss Garret and the stark look will help when you get that double vision from your last couple of hits of poison mate.
    
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    August 25, 2016 3:04pm
All_on_Red

JB
Fortunately your comments are preserved.
At the bottom of the thread you will see ‘more comments 1 2’
We are currently in the 2nd page now. You’re still included in page 1
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August 25, 2016 2:59pm
- Johnboy
  
  No AoR. Checked that. I just posted as the site changed so I suspect my erudite crap has been lost in cyberspace!
  
  What a loss! 🙂
  
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  August 25, 2016 3:04pm
Keeping Stock

Let’s see if this comment doesn’t appear into the ether…
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August 25, 2016 3:01pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  Ah; much better. And I do like the ability to reply directly to a comment, even if there is a delay in seeing it.
  
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  August 25, 2016 3:02pm
  - Aliog
    
    Me too – keeps things topical. Mind you, I thought I’d strayed into the wrong site a few minutes ago!
    
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    August 25, 2016 3:27pm
mikenmild

I see today is the 100th anniversary of the execution of the first of our First World War deserters – Frank Hughes. Sadly, I find I can remember the names of these men (Hughes, Sweeney, Spencer, King, Braithwaite) more clearly than most of the NZ VC winners from that war (Bassett, Travis, Judson, Andrew).
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August 25, 2016 3:03pm
- Johnboy
  
  So you’re a pacifist rather than a warmonger Milkey?
  No need to be ashamed old chap!
  Just dont get so excited when HOBM executes all it’s opposition in future! 🙂
  
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  August 25, 2016 3:07pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Well some of us will remember L. W. Andrew V.C.
  until our dying day.
  http://22battalion.org.nz/people/andrew.php
  
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  August 25, 2016 3:12pm
  - mikenmild
    
    I can see why that link would pass quickly over the Battle of Crete, Maggy.
    
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    August 25, 2016 3:19pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      And you could do a bit of study there.
      Check out Hargest for a starter.
      
      Take your gripe out on the politicians who ordered the executions.. Don’t sully the name of the ordinary soldiers.
      
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      August 25, 2016 3:30pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Andrew and Hargest were hardly ‘ordinary’ soldiers. After distinguishing themselves in the First World War, they were probably too old to serve effectively in the Second. Hargest in particular was medically unfit and only went away with 2NZEF due to his political connections. Without the command failures at Maleme, the battle on Crete might have turned out differently.
        It’s not a gripe, and pointing out failures is not malicious or disrespectful.
        
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        August 25, 2016 3:34pm
- Stars And Stripes
  
  Traitors are always remembered more vividly MM.
  
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  August 25, 2016 3:18pm
  - mikenmild
    
    Desertion (and mutiny) is not treachery. I think there was one deserter (Nimot) who went over to the enemy but I think even that is not technically treason.
    
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    August 25, 2016 3:21pm
    - Stars And Stripes
      
      Get the dictionary out and formally define the word if you wish but any form of selling out your own side is a traitor in my books.
      Glad some people including my grandfather had more moral fortitude than those cowards.
      
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      August 25, 2016 3:25pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Desertion is generally a response when someone has reached the end of his tether. In the case of Hughes, he was a drinker and had no mates (often an essential feature in such harsh conditions). I think that was the case for Sweeney and King as well. Spencer might have been suffering PTSD after his service in Gallipoli. Braithwaite was executed after getting involved in a ‘mutiny’ at a detention camps .
        I shouldn’t judge them too harshly for failing in such circumstances.
        
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        August 25, 2016 3:32pm
- David Garrett
  
  Good on you Milky for that reminder…I don’t think of myself as a coward (who does, I guess) but I am far from sure I could have taken the Western Front…with the mud and the rats as well as the bullets and shells….Awful awful war…
  
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  August 25, 2016 3:24pm
  - Johnboy
    
    The interesting thing about the executions was that the Aussies wouldn’t let the Poms shoot their troops but our lot of useless pollies did.
    
    Looking at the respective bunches we’ve got now I suspect they’d do the same.
    
    Good on the Aussie’s! 🙂
    
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    August 25, 2016 3:36pm
    - mikenmild
      
      That might well have been a factor in Braithwaite’s execution. Australians were more involved in the detention camp mutiny, but were exempt from the death penalty. The Australian legislation provided that any death sentence had to be approved by the Australian Governor-General. Politically, that was a no go, due to the campaigns to introduce conscription in Australia.
      
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      August 25, 2016 3:41pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Seems there is a limit on how many replies you can make to a posting.
        
        For your 3:03 posting you could just have mentioned the names of the executed men….There was no need to contrast their names with those of the VC winners (who are forgettable in your eyes).
        
        I think you were being disrespectful.
        
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        August 25, 2016 3:49pm
Manolo

The whole change is a bit New Coke.

How long before our host DPF withdraws it and goes back to the original recipe? 🙂
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August 25, 2016 3:05pm
stephieboy

chiz

Shocking new claims about Hillary’s health problems:

An 11th toe ? Something for the gullible Trumpists like All On Red to lap up .
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August 25, 2016 3:06pm
- David Garrett
  
  Stephie, we are the opposite of natural bedfellows…but if Hillary has an 11th toe, so fucking what?? I had a girlfriend once who only had four on each foot, and it didn’t seem to inhibit her any…
  
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  August 25, 2016 3:12pm
  - stephieboy
    
    The NY Times article was I believe being satirical given the numerous dumb claims made about her health .
    
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    August 25, 2016 3:15pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Same species I assume , though! Just checking.
    
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    August 25, 2016 3:38pm
NoCash

No, I don’t like the new look at all!

We need a petition to bring back the old look!
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August 25, 2016 3:11pm
Stars And Stripes

Heritage-listed demolition gets iwi backing
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/311792/heritage-listed-demolition-gets-iwi-backing

“Historic Places Trust president James Blackburne said Mr Scott’s ability to mix European and Māori concepts and weave them into something beautiful was unparalleled.”

I must be sick today as I agree with Tuhoe on this one as the Historic Places Trust description is pure drivel.
Have been to this visitors centre and it is a boxy crap heap which only deserves the bulldozer.
Bring it on.
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August 25, 2016 3:13pm
RalphT

Careful Johnboy. Keep those thoughts about NW under control or you really will be needing those pads.
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August 25, 2016 3:15pm
- Johnboy
  
  The hero in me tells me I’d love to see her wielding her bristly bits in earnest RalphT old chap! 🙂
  
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  August 25, 2016 3:30pm
Komata

What on earth happened? One minute it was blue, white and ‘National’; it even had a Kiwi; the next? White, white and…. white! FWIW, DPF, common courtesy says that it is ‘good manners’ to to advise your ‘clients’ in advance of a change (even in business) and in this instance you haven’t. Disappointed really, especially as there is no ‘onsite’ advice as to ‘why’ or anything to help your hitherto-faithful readers navigate the new pages. Not even a greeting to welcome us, and no Kiwi either (I’ll miss him). In a word ‘Unimpressed’ ; we deserved better.
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August 25, 2016 3:36pm
- Kiwi Dave
  
  common courtesy says that it is ‘good manners’ to to advise your ‘clients’ in advance of a change
  
  We get what we pay for. I guess by next week this will look quite normal.
  
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  August 25, 2016 7:42pm
stigie

Fuck, i seem to be going left !!!!!!!
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August 25, 2016 3:37pm
- Johnboy
  
  You’ve been reading the “University of Waikato”
  ad stigie….control yourself old chap or you’ll turn brown as well! 🙂
  
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  August 25, 2016 3:41pm
  - stigie
    
    Would be a fucking lot better than turning “Green” JB..?
    
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    August 25, 2016 3:47pm
Manolo

Socialist delights. Who says Venezuela is broke?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3192933/Hugo-Chavez-s-ambassador-daughter-Venezuela-s-richest-woman-according-new-report.html

The daughter of Hugo Chavez, the former president who once declared ‘being rich is bad,’ may be the wealthiest woman in Venezuela, according to evidence reportedly in the hands of Venezuelan media outlets.

Maria Gabriela Chavez, 35, the late president’s second-oldest daughter, holds assets in American and Andorran banks totaling almost $4.2billion, Diario las Americas reports.
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August 25, 2016 3:42pm
Manolo

@Johnboy: What do you have against us, poor brown people? 😀
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August 25, 2016 3:44pm
rightoverlabour

To all those complaining of the change..It’s his blog. If he wanted to he could can the whole thing, or post in Russian and have dancing Gorillas on the sides. We are his guests. Not his master.
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August 25, 2016 3:44pm
Johnboy

A huge baton Manolo. I’m saving it for NW! 🙂
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August 25, 2016 3:45pm
mikenmild

There was no need to contrast their names with those of the VC winners (who are forgettable in your eyes).

Not forgettable in my eyes, Maggy. I doubt there are too many here who could name them all without looking it up. I just contrasted their memories. Perhaps an even starker contrast would be the attention paid to those executed in comparison with the many thousands completely forgotten today.
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August 25, 2016 3:56pm
mikenmild

Quite exciting news today. Astronomical, in fact. A possibly Earth-like planet has been discovered orbiting Proxima Centauri, the nearest star to our solar system.
Pity we have no known way of getting there soon and checking it out.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2016/08/24/exoplanet_discovered_orbiting_proxima_centauri.html
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August 25, 2016 4:07pm
- Johnboy
  
  “Pity we have no known way of getting there soon and checking it out.”
  All of us here at KB are happy to contribute whatever amount of rocket fuel it takes to help yo along Milkey! 🙂
  
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  August 25, 2016 4:20pm
  - mikenmild
    
    I think it’s a thousand-year trip with present technology, so I’ll be unlikely to travel.
    
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    August 25, 2016 4:35pm
    - Johnboy
      
      The new KB is light years ahead of the old one Milkey! You could keep on posting from your starship for yoinks. Just remember if you go fast enough you can get to 24,130,000,000,000 comments before we can say Milkey who? 🙂
      
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      August 25, 2016 4:40pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Milky Way?
        
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        August 25, 2016 4:41pm
    - Shunda barunda
      
      Not with that attitude Mikey 😉
      
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      August 25, 2016 4:43pm
- starboard
  
  I’ll find a way and chip in to send you there mm..along with a few other KB commentators..
  
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  August 25, 2016 5:56pm
Stars And Stripes

Murdered toddler Nia Glassie’s killer mother back in prison
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11700226

“The mother of murdered toddler Nia Glassie has been recalled to prison after authorities became concerned that she was was “a risk to the community after breaching her parole conditions”.
“It was not specified what those breaches were.”

I have it on good authority she was spotted in Noel Leeming looking at whitewear with a keen eye on clothesdriers.
6 1
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August 25, 2016 4:10pm
- David Garrett
  
  They should have sterilized the bitch while she was inside…she is a “mother” only in the strict technical sense…
  
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  August 25, 2016 4:27pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    I see you have been down ticked. So somebody actually thinks this garbage collection of DNA is the epitome of motherhood….
    
    7 2
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    August 25, 2016 4:49pm
    - mikenmild
      
      I’m not sure that downticking DG’s suggestion of (compulsory) sterilisation is exactly the same as saying this woman is a good mother.
      
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      August 25, 2016 4:54pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        So why wouldnt you sterilise her? I’d be happy with a more permanent solution which would prevent reoffending. Killing babies has to be one of the worst crimes that exist.
        
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        August 25, 2016 5:03pm
  - Northland Wahine
    
    The only thing this woman is capable of doing is breeding. She should never be given the chance of giving birth again.
    
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    August 25, 2016 5:20pm
wiseowl

It’s a conspiracy.
While everyone has been distracted Tourism NZ has come out and said it is trying to attract more muslim tourists.
Some guy on the radio saying we need a network of places to bang heads on floor.
Madness.
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August 25, 2016 4:56pm
- mikenmild
  
  I think we should build a replica of Noah’s Ark and a Creation Museum to attract rich fundie American tourists.
  
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  August 25, 2016 5:02pm
Inandout

ISIS are looking at drone delivery of pizzas – Bombinoes.
4 1
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August 25, 2016 5:13pm
wiseowl

Actually mikenmild there is an Australian guy and team building an Ark in the US.
He’s ready for the next flood.
3 0
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August 25, 2016 5:13pm
- Flash
  
  Did I hear Mike Hosking say it has a car deck?
  
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  August 25, 2016 9:55pm
Reid

http://getoffthebs.com/obama-not-won-2008-election-without-voter-fraud/

Bush 43 wouldn’t have won without it, either.
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August 25, 2016 5:33pm
Griff

Councils given right to decide on Easter trading hours
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/311826/councils-given-right-to-decide-on-easter-trading-hours

Legislation that will make it legal for shops to trade on Easter Sunday, if their local councils agree, has been passed by Parliament.

The country’s hotchpotch Easter trading laws have been a source of great frustration for many, with some tourist centres being allowed to trade, and others not.

Parliament has repeatedly failed to pass proposed laws to remove the Easter trading discrepancies, but this afternoon MPs voted 62 to 59 in favour of the Shop Trading Hours Amendment Bill.

Workplace Relations Minister Michael Woodhouse said the current shop trading laws were arbitrary and outdated and did not reflect what most New Zealanders wanted over Easter weekend.

Mr Woodhouse told Parliament a large and growing number of events were being scheduled over Easter, such as Warbirds over Wanaka.

“This event draws large crowds from New Zealand and around the world. The inability to even have a choice to do a bit of shopping is outdated.”

Mr Woodhouse said it should be up to local communities whether they opened on Easter Sunday – not Parliament.
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August 25, 2016 5:47pm
- mikenmild
  
  Stupid law. Businesses should be free to open when ever it suits the proprietor and customers.
  
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  August 25, 2016 5:59pm
  - Griff
    
    It is a change for the better.
    The purging of religions influence over the majority of us has to be slow and incremental. We are dealing with conservatives here mike .
    Parliamentary prayer and the God Defend New Zealand crap should be the next to go.
    Maybe if we forced them to change to God and Allah we could purge such nonsense from our secular society quicker.
    
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    August 25, 2016 6:10pm
    - Johnboy
      
      “Parliamentary prayer and the God Defend New Zealand crap should be the next to go.”
      Agree Griff. I can’t wait till stupid old David Carter throws off that dreadful moth-eaten religious item he wears when he’s pretending to be Mr Speaker! 🙂
      
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      August 25, 2016 6:20pm
nasska

You’re inviting the wrath of the Godaddled Mike. ?
4 1
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August 25, 2016 6:07pm
- mikenmild
  
  I could call on the Flying Spaghetti Monster to strike them dead, but we know how that would turn out.
  
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  August 25, 2016 6:11pm
Johnboy

I hope Iwi have been consulted! ?
4 1
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August 25, 2016 6:08pm
- nasska
  
  And the appropriate koha paid. 🙂
  
  3 1
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  August 25, 2016 6:10pm
- Inandout
  
  Iwi are consulted on every bit of legislation.
  
  3 1
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  August 25, 2016 6:11pm
  - mikenmild
    
    Consultation is a bad thing.
    
    2 1
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    August 25, 2016 6:34pm
    - Reid
      
      It’s what Maori complain is mostly lacking mm. How come it’s a bad thing?
      
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      August 25, 2016 6:43pm
nasska

This could be a career enhancing read for you Mike: 🙂

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0nwys4hdsppidlw/Civil%20Service%203.jpg?dl=0
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August 25, 2016 6:47pm
- mikenmild
  
  Seems like hard work, nasska.
  
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  August 25, 2016 6:58pm
Johnboy

Milkey was apprenticed to the PSA when a chap had to catch his own seagull and sharpen its feathers before he was allowed an inkwell nasska.

New technology, like pencils, are beyond his abilities I fear! ?
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August 25, 2016 7:03pm
- mikenmild
  
  Goose quills, Johnboy, not seagulls.
  When I started work, all those decades ago, we had the latest technology – computers monitors with the classic green screens that were so bloody awful to look at – in a large room full of metal desks and cigarette smoke.
  It was the 80s of course, so walk shorts and grey shoes were fashionable.
  
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  August 25, 2016 7:09pm
Johnboy

“Goose quills, Johnboy, not seagulls.”
Ah…goose quills…..fast tracked to management then were you Milkey….you poseur.

Here was us thinking you were a union man! 🙂
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August 25, 2016 7:14pm
- mikenmild
  
  Fast tracked? As I look back, from my present state, it doesn’t really seem so.
  But the good old day were good, weren’t they? Sometimes?
  
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  August 25, 2016 7:20pm
  - Johnboy
    
    Course they were Milkey. We hardly ever got pissed, or smoked dope, or got to shag wimmen like these young whipper-snappers do all the time now.
    
    No wonder we’re such miserable old bastards! 🙂
    
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    August 25, 2016 7:26pm
    - nasska
      
      …..”But the good old day were good, weren’t they?”….
      
      I wouldn’t change much…..it was too enjoyable.
      
      Yet if I got the chance to do it all over again I’d still go back & screw the chick who got my virginity but this time I’d do it properly! ?
      
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      August 25, 2016 7:29pm
    - mikenmild
      
      At least we didn’t have cell phones, Johnboy.
      
      5 1
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      August 25, 2016 7:31pm
      - pentwig
        
        mm
        you do have a good side occassionally.
        
        Good to see. I thought you showed through GB that you had such a dull existent.
        
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        August 25, 2016 9:03pm
Jack5

Radio New Zealand, the taxpayer-owned radio station that is expanding to become a state national internet hub, has an article on Donald Trump today by one “Phil Smith”.

No further description of who “Phil Smith” is except this at the bottom:

Phil Smith is a journalist who has wasted his adult life revelling in the entertaining minutiae of American politics and culture. He once shared a lunch of rare bison steaks with Jimmy Carter.

As a reader, I jump to the conclusion that “Phil Smith” is an experienced American political reporter. However, the email contact address provided, “Phil Smith – @piripismith” starts a trail to the Waka Experience Trust, where there is one Piripi Smith, a “traditional navigator”.

This can’t be right. If you click on the address on the Radion NZ site, it leads to a Twitter address, and looks to be that of a New Zealander.

Can anyone give us more information about this Phil Smith?
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August 25, 2016 7:27pm
- mikenmild
  
  He is 27 years old, still lives with his Mum and is interested in epistemology, viticulture and Pokemon Go.
  
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  August 25, 2016 7:29pm
  - Jack5
    
    Thank you. That would have been helpful at the bottom of the Radio NZ piece, Milky. Presumably he lives in NZ.
    Epistemology and viticulture – an interesting mixture. In other words, a local version of Omar Khayyam.
    
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    August 25, 2016 7:41pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Perhaps this ex Journo turned YA writer?
  http://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/new-zealand-childrens-authors/phil-smith/
  
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  August 25, 2016 7:42pm
  - Jack5
    
    I like the line in the biographical notes about a Phil Smith that you point to, Maggy:
    
    If you weren’t a writer, what would you like to be?
    A lion tamer.
    
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    August 25, 2016 7:55pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      It’s a safer option taming sheep, Johnboy.
      http://image.shutterstock.com/z/stock-vector-bible-story-jesus-and-sheep-the-vector-art-image-isolated-on-white-background-72074431.jpg
      
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      August 25, 2016 8:01pm
Johnboy

She’s probably in a rest home now nasska! 🙂
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August 25, 2016 7:29pm
- mikenmild
  
  Remember Claridges, Johnboy? Grab-a-granny nights?
  
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  August 25, 2016 7:32pm
Johnboy

Being a sophisticate I used to frequent the Downtown Club Milkey.

Despite what others may tell you I NEVER spent the whole night on the batchelors gallery! 🙂
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August 25, 2016 7:40pm
stigie

“I’d still go back & screw the chick who got my virginity but this time I’d do it properly!”

Yes, it’s a bastard just laying there a letting it happen to ya Nasska..?
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August 25, 2016 7:45pm
- Johnboy
  
  But you do that when you’re only 12 stigie! 🙂
  
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  August 25, 2016 7:47pm
  - nasska
    
    I struggled a bit to start with but I got over it. 🙂
    
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    August 25, 2016 7:53pm
Johnboy

They can be quite frightening women when they decide they want to rape you.
If they cook you a nice breakfast in the morning it somehow seems to reduce their crime.
Specially if they want you to stay for lunch and dinner as well! 🙂
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August 25, 2016 7:58pm
Don the Kiwi

What about “grab a grimmy”?

My brothers mate was obsessed with grabbing the ugliest chick, because she was sure to go off like a handfull of chinese firecrackers, like it was the last one she would ever have.

Actually, that was not very becoming of me, but we can’t avoid our past now, can we? 🙂
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August 25, 2016 7:59pm
- David Garrett
  
  Don, I can absolutely confirm that we cannot avoid our past…Mine is rather useful as a warning to my kids about the Net though…I say “Look what got dredged up from that long ago…and the Net didn’t even exist then” Not sure how much it sinks in…
  
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  August 25, 2016 8:22pm
  - Don the Kiwi
    
    Well said, DG
    
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    August 25, 2016 9:04pm
Jack5

Everyone is quiet and refined on Kiwiblog so far tonight – even Griff on his second favourite topic, cannabis. Do you get the sense we’re all aware that a bunch of web layout folk, DPF, mates of DPF, and various MSM airhead-experts on blogging, are scanning Kiwiblog over our shoulders to rate the new blog design as we chat?

Kea will go squawking crazy in the layered comments when she/he gets out of the blog slammer. And could Red have coped?
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August 25, 2016 7:59pm
- nasska
  
  Definitely Jack. We’re on our best behaviour & along comes Don the Kiwi to lower the tone with accounts of fraternal hanky panky! 🙂
  
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  August 25, 2016 8:03pm
  - Don the Kiwi
    
    Oh, I dunno nasska.
    I thought I was being pretty humble in the latter part of my comment – passing the buck most would call it. 🙂
    
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    August 25, 2016 8:09pm
    - nasska
      
      We’re in the presence of a man of the cloth…..
      
      …..hide the cutlery. 🙂
      
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      August 25, 2016 8:13pm
- Johnboy
  
  Thank goodness we have airheads like us on GD to keep the ratings up then Jack5. 🙂
  
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  August 25, 2016 8:04pm
  - Don the Kiwi
    
    Airhead, Jb.
    
    So you are blonde and female – all this time we thought you are a bestiality specialist with a penchant for ewes with lipstick. 😉
    
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    August 25, 2016 8:12pm
stigie

But you do that when you’re only 12 stigie!

Sheep are for the young and old JB..?
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August 25, 2016 8:01pm
rightoverlabour

I now understand the rise in people leaving Australia. They are nuts. Cant have fun, cant drink, now its a crime to not have a bicycle bell. The only people going there seem to be Isis recruits…. https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/aug/24/sydney-australia-war-cyclists-fines
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August 25, 2016 8:12pm
Reid

Do you get the sense we’re all aware that a bunch of web layout folk, DPF, mates of DPF, and various MSM airhead-experts on blogging, are scanning Kiwiblog over our shoulders to rate the new blog design as we chat?

The objective of every interface is to be invisible and respond to stimuli the same way your mind does when you command it.

That is: “automatically:” i.e. instantly, effortlessly, seamlessly and most importantly, instinctively.

Is this it?

Is this a step towards it?

It’s not bad, is my initial impression.
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August 25, 2016 8:17pm
- Jack5
  
  It’s got good points, Reid, and we’ll get used to it.
  
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  August 25, 2016 8:41pm
Jack5

The disinformation campaign to promote Land Wars Day, continues.

In the Christchurch Press an editorial says of the wars:

They drew enormous numbers of soldiers to an outpost of the British Empire.

Crap! These were small campaigns for the British Army, tiny compared with many of their wars in the empire and elsewhere. No top-line regiments such as Guards or Highlanders were sent to New Zealand. Sometimes considerable parts of the British forces ranged against Maori were Royal Navy bluejackets and marines.

You can see the way the propaganda is going to go. These were wars between the “British” and Maori. Downplayed will be the parts played by pro-British tribes and by colonial forces such as von Tempsky’s Rangers.
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August 25, 2016 8:39pm
sooty

DPF. Can we have more room between the uptick and down tick buttons, at least the same gap as between down tick button and reply. For us that use tablet. At least the report button is out of the way now. I use to hit that reqluarly before. I gave up worrying about that.Thank you.
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August 25, 2016 8:40pm
- RF
  
  I agree. Apart from that it’s an improvement when using an Ipad
  
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  August 25, 2016 10:31pm
Northland Wahine

I thought about adding to the glory day thread but I decided best not! ?
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August 25, 2016 8:47pm
- Flash
  
  Gee, I thought I upticked. Did I REPORT by accident? Sorry.
  
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  August 25, 2016 9:42pm
Tauhei Notts

This new layout:
Is it too difficult for Stephieboy to comprehend?
If so, then it is brilliant.
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August 25, 2016 9:16pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Looks like pistols are being drawn over the water bores in Bugtussle

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/311813/'massive-conflict'-in-water-inquiry,-mayor-says
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August 25, 2016 9:21pm
Left Right and Centre

Someone make it stop . . .
It’s whiter than the 1950s man !!
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August 25, 2016 9:43pm
David Garrett

On “Land Wars Day”…Tariana Turia has called them “the Maori holocaust”…What a disgraceful insult to the victims of the actual holocaust…

from memory about 3000 Maori died in the Land wars, or around 1/10th the number killed in the Musket Wars from about 1815…
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August 25, 2016 9:46pm
- mikenmild
  
  Common misconception, DG. I don’t believe that was what Turia said.
  
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  August 25, 2016 9:53pm
David Garrett

Really Milky? I beg to differ… I used to sit right behind the fraudulent old tart…she used to say a lot of things sotto voce, so the Hansard reporters couldn’t pick it up…”the Maori holocaust” was said ON the record…
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August 25, 2016 9:55pm
- mikenmild
  
  I understand the furore was caused by a speech she made. The actual words were:
  
  Do you consider for example the effects of the trauma of colonisation? I know that psychology has accepted the relevance of PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder).
  I understand that much of the research done in this area has focussed on the trauma suffered by the Jewish survivors of the holocaust of World War Two. I also understand the same has been done with the Vietnam veterans.
  
  She then went on to say:
  
  What seems to not have received similar attention is the holocaust suffered by indigenous people including Maori as a result of colonial contact and behaviour.
  The Treaty of Waitangi Tribunal made such a reference in its Taranaki Report of 1996 and I recollect what appeared to be a ‘but our holocaust was worse than your holocaust’ debate. A debate I must add, I do not wish to enter.
  
  Context matters.
  
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  August 25, 2016 9:58pm
David Garrett

Hmmm…edit function isn’t working..

I’m prepared to bet you have never been within 10 metres of the half American Mrs Turia Milky…
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August 25, 2016 9:56pm
- mikenmild
  
  How would you prove that, DG?
  
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  August 25, 2016 9:59pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Prove what? All you need to do is say I am wrong, and you have met the woman..I am saying I very much doubt that is the case…
    
    Just Google “Tariana Turia Maori holocaust” Milky..her speech in 2000 is there in full…to be fair it is the entire experience of colonization that she refers to…but she returns several times to “the invasion of Maori lands”…that can only be a reference to the Land Wars…she also talks plaintively about the succour offered to Jewish holocaust survivors and compares it to the lack of same offered “the Maori victims of colonization”
    
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    August 25, 2016 10:07pm
    - mikenmild
      
      I think she contrasted the two in a deliberate way to emphasise the wholesale destruction of Maori society post-contact. My only quible is that I think using the term ‘holocaust’ implies a genocidal intent. Europeans did not intend to wipe out Maori, indeed, they probably thought they were doling them a favour.
      
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      August 25, 2016 10:13pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Anyone can read what Tariana said
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=149643

The sentence in question
“The holocaust suffered by many Maori tribes during the Land Wars needs to be acknowledged.”
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August 25, 2016 10:05pm
- David Garrett
  
  Now Milky, what a gentleman does now is say: “Yes, you are right – my recall was incorrect”…
  
  but I suspect you will just bluster and obfuscate…
  
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  August 25, 2016 10:09pm
- Jack5
  
  Talking about “holocaust”… As far as genocide and brutality go, little beats Tariana’s Taranaki Maori tribes’ butchery of the Moriori people of the Chatham Islands. Enslaved many survivors, too, until well after the Treaty of Waitangi.
  
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  August 25, 2016 10:16pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Tariana is not from either of the 2 northern Taranaki tribes that slaughtered Moriori.
    
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    August 25, 2016 10:29pm
stephieboy

Another refresher from John Oliver as to why Trump’s election campaign is continuing to turn to custard . From Obama founded ISIS ,to I was being sarcastic , then backed tracked on that ,where he claimed the statement was “not that sarcastic, to be honest with you.”

With yet another high note of the elections are going to be rigged not forgetting second amenders might consider taking Hillary Clinton out ,

http://fortune.com/2016/08/15/john-oliver-trump-sarcasm/

And people ask why Hillary doesn’t have a press conference . Actually, she could do so most successfully by merely focussing on these Trump meltdown moments .
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August 26, 2016 3:16pm

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