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August 23, 2016 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 August 2016

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General Debate

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Kriss X

And now upon us.

=========================

William I really think you can do more to alert humanity of this global catastrophe.

Have you tried wandering the streets wearing a sandwich board and ringing a bell ?
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August 23, 2016 8:14pm
William of Ockham

Maggy Wassilieff. Yes, you have insulted me. You have referred me to idiot denier sites.

I wasn’t insulting you, by the way. Merely a statement of fact.
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August 23, 2016 8:17pm
sam green

“Have you tried wandering the streets wearing a sandwich board and ringing a bell ?”

Have you?
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August 23, 2016 8:17pm
Kriss X

Cheer up heathens 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeHLMrL7nzY
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August 23, 2016 8:20pm
Captain Mainwaring

Maggy, different subject:
There was a nice cafe/restaurant down by the harbour in Gizzy which I enjoyed dinner at a couple of times.
Not so long ago they had a big fire.
Did they fix it up and get going again?
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August 23, 2016 8:21pm
Griff

https://wattsupwiththat.

ROFL
yip Maggy you get your “science” from blogs like WUWT
eh
Ones that have a long history of posting rubbish from the likes of lord monckton
That have also accepted money from the oil and coal industry pr machine.
Really love that is totally fringe site you just linked to .

I haven’t insulted you. Why do you feel it’s necessary to trash me?

I view it as people like you are though the spreed of ignorance killing millions off as yet unborn.
This view can be justified by the many scientific body’s views on global warming.
Do you understand maggy what I think of you now?
What you are is far far worse than anything I have ever called you.
http://whatweknow.aaas.org/get-the-facts/
THE REALITY, RISKS, AND RESPONSE TO CLIMATE CHANGE
1. Climate scientists agree: climate change is happening here and now.
2. We are at risk of pushing our climate system toward abrupt, unpredictable, and potentially irreversible changes with highly damaging impacts
Earth’s climate is on a path to warm beyond the range of what has been experienced over the past millions of years.[ii] The range of uncertainty for the warming along the current emissions path is wide enough to encompass massively disruptive consequences to societies and ecosystems: as global temperatures rise, there is a real risk, however small, that one or more critical parts of the Earth’s climate system will experience abrupt, unpredictable and potentially irreversible changes. Disturbingly, scientists do not know how much warming is required to trigger such changes to the climate system.
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August 23, 2016 8:21pm
William of Ockham

KrissX. If I cared about humanity I would start here.
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August 23, 2016 8:21pm
Captain Mainwaring

Griff, go and have a cup of Milo and a lie down before you blow a foo-foo valve.
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August 23, 2016 8:25pm
Andrei

Prove the entire global community of scientists wrong on man-made climate change.

William of Ockham there is a diversity of views among the ” global community of scientists” on this matter

A phenomenon studied since Fourier in the early 1800s

Fourier noted that a bell jar filled with CO₂ warmed when light was passed through it

A bell jar filled with other gases will exhibit the same phenomena, the magnitude of this effect varying depending upon the gas held within the jar

It is well understood

The Earth however isn’t a closed bell jar filled with one gas but a far more complex thing

CO₂ is in fact a trace component of the atmosphere, a very minute proportion of it and this might surprise you the earth’s atmosphere in this era is far poorer in CO₂ today than in ages past – zeroing in on this and ignoring all the other factors involved in climate change is pure foolishness
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August 23, 2016 8:25pm
Reid

Yes EAD, but that’s not all of them.
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August 23, 2016 8:28pm
Stars And Stripes

The main people pushing the global warming barrow are a gaggle of socialists, anti capitalists and greenies so I could not think of any better reason to stay a million miles away from it.
I do not trust any of these people.
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August 23, 2016 8:30pm
Brigitte

Perhaps the wealthy and powerful think they can buy their way out of any climate change problems which is why they don’t care. But perhaps it will turn out like Stark (Ben Elton).
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August 23, 2016 8:33pm
William of Ockham

@Andrei. No, there is no debate amongst informed scientists. It’s a myth.

And yes, when CO2 is high so are sea levels.

Yes, the role of CO2 is well understood. You could start here. But you won’t.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RffPSrRpq_g
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August 23, 2016 8:33pm
Griff

William of Ockham there is a diversity of views among the ” global community of scientists” on this matter

yip from we are fucked to we are really fucked all the way to we are totally fucked.

There is a small minority that think it is not that big of problem.
Around 3% of publishing climate scientists.
Most of them are either loons or proven to be in the pay of the oil and coal industry.
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August 23, 2016 8:34pm
Reid

The main people pushing the global warming barrow are a gaggle of socialists, anti capitalists and greenies so I could not think of any better reason to stay a million miles away from it.

AGW is a scheme to get the taxpayer to finance the infrastructure switch from oil to electricity because the owners of the oil companies don’t want to.
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August 23, 2016 8:34pm
William of Ockham

@Reid. Yes, a vast conspiracy involving tens of thousands of scientists all around the world and every scientific institution and society on the planet…

Tell me, Reid, how did “they” plan that?
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August 23, 2016 8:42pm
Griff

Solyent green is more probable Bridgitte
]
We have had regional agricultural collapse due to AGW in the resent past like Russia wheat crop failing or corn in the usa having a really bad year.
black swan events so far.
When ( not if)we have a few of those collapses in the same year or in consecutive years we will see vast misery among those in the third world.
The developed world will be ok as our income allows us to buy food even if it goes up astronomically.
The poor living in subsidence conditions dont have the luxury of reducing there consumption of consumer goods to stay alive.
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August 23, 2016 8:43pm
William of Ockham

@Brigitte. Wealthy buy their way out of climate change? More likely they know they’ll be dead and as most of them are narcissists, sociopaths or psychopaths they don’t give a fuck.
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August 23, 2016 8:45pm
nasska

….”The poor living in subsidence conditions dont have the luxury of reducing there consumption of consumer goods to stay alive.”….

Don’t worry. The politicians have set it up so that they can all become refugees & come & live with us!
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August 23, 2016 8:48pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Captain Mainwaring

The burnt restaurant isn’t up and running yet. Repairs are taking place….. but it’s taking a long time. I’m hoping they’ll be on deck by Labour Weekend.

Still, there’s quite a few other decent places for lunch or dinner.
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August 23, 2016 8:48pm
Reid

Tell me, Reid, how did “they” plan that?

Getting scientists on board is child’s play Willie.

All you need to do is finance a few studies from reputable people in the relevant fields which “coincidentaly” come to the correct conclusion and then over time, over decades, you gradually slice the elephant and build and build on it then you make it political by engendering fear and by 2016 you have mass hysteria on the verge of breaking out worldwide from nothing at all, something you just made up.

There’s a few other things they do as well.

It’s easy when you own the media and the politicians Willie.

Tell us Willie, in your average Climate Studies dept in your average Western uni, how many anti-AGW projects do you imagine get financed vs those pro-AGW which do?

And compare and contrast the AGW scientific and politicial phenomena with how real science develops and transfers into common application and knowledge: e.g. the theory of relativity.

No politics there, were there. So how come AGW is saturated with it, if it really is, real “science?”
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August 23, 2016 8:53pm
tom hunter

William of Ockham (172 comments) says:
August 23rd, 2016 at 8:21 pm
KrissX. If I cared about humanity I would start here.

I always appreciate good trolls, but the good ones know how to put more space between their contradictory flames…

William of Ockham (172 comments) says:
August 23rd, 2016 at 8:45 pm
@Brigitte. Wealthy buy their way out of climate change? More likely they know they’ll be dead and as most of them are narcissists, sociopaths or psychopaths they don’t give a fuck.

Still, KrissX deserves no better. We need Stephieboy also.
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August 23, 2016 8:54pm
Stars And Stripes

For the people who feel strongly on this issue of GW feel free to reuse your toilet paper and ride a skateboard everywhere but personally I have no intention of going without anything and in fact will use more than I need just because I can so be satisfied that all your conservation efforts will be negated by individuals like myself.
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August 23, 2016 8:57pm
nasska

Maggy

A couple of nights ago you mentioned something about a staff researcher at Massey losing his samples of a certain plant. I recall a professor who lectured at Massey yet lived in the South Wairarapa about 35 years ago. I met him a few times socially & he indicated that much unofficial work had been carried out at the University to develop improved strains.

His surname started with a ‘U’…..are we thinking of the same character?
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August 23, 2016 8:58pm
Manolo

A new lone wolf, this time in Virginia.
http://wsls.com/2016/08/21/roanoke-county-police-investigate-random-knife-attack-two-victims-injured/

Roanoke County Police say the suspect involved in stabbing was yelling Allah Akbar during the attack.
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August 23, 2016 9:14pm
wiseowl

Nasska
I remember Tubby Wenham who was an expert on phytopthera in spuds.
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August 23, 2016 9:15pm
SGA

Nostradamus at 7:34 pm

Well, if we describe ourselves as Destiny Children, I don’t think Mr Tamaki could sue us for passing ourselves off as Destiny Church representatives.

Beyonce and the other members of Destiny’s Child might try though 🙂
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August 23, 2016 9:21pm
William of Ockham

@Reid. Even the vile tobacco industry is struggling to keep up the lies. In the West, anyway.

The fossil fuel industry still has plenty of useful idiots like you, Reid, but the numbers are dwindling.

Not because old fuddies can change their minds when the facts change; just that they die off.
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August 23, 2016 9:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@nasska

I’m pretty sure we are not talking about the same person.

Prof Thomas’ research had been into factors initiating flowering and sex expression in higher plants.

He may have had different lines/clones of Cannabis that showed variation in response to daylight/temperature…. but I doubt that he was interested in their THC content.
(However, I only did my undergrad. at Massey, so never really got to know all that was going on in the Botany glasshouses).

If your character was connected with the Horticulture Dept, then I wouldn’t have encountered him.
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August 23, 2016 9:30pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@William of Ockham

Maggy Wassilieff. Yes, you have insulted me. You have referred me to idiot denier sites.

I referred you to Kenneth Richard’s list of published, peer-reviewed papers that he posts on Pierre Gosselin’s website
‘NotricksZone”

It’s a convenient service Richard provides in assembling recent climate science papers from various sources in one location.

You don’t like the site..so what?….
It’s the scientific papers within I referred you to.
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August 23, 2016 9:43pm
nasska

Not the same one then Maggy. The good doctor was a neighbour of a mate of mine & a regular attendee at Sunday School in the garage. A couple of times he handed around joints of the latest strain & most of us would leave in a decidedly second hand condition with our eyes spinning like the reels in pokie machines.

You were obviously not exposed to all the advantages of the higher learning available at Massey! ?
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August 23, 2016 9:49pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@nasska

You were obviously not exposed to all the advantages of the higher learning available at Massey!

I couldn’t wait to escape to the cess-pit of big city life at Victoria.
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August 23, 2016 9:53pm
Kriss X

Around 3% of publishing climate scientists.
Most of them are either loons or proven to be in the pay of the oil and coal industry.

==============================================

I see Griff, so you are saying scientists will distort findings for money.

Interesting, do go on …
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August 23, 2016 10:02pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Brigitte 7:39pm

However, I’ve yet to see any papers that show examples from the past of climate change as quick and significant as we are now experiencing.

In 2010 Prof. Phil Jones of the Climate Research Unit was interviewed on BBC and asked about similar warming periods….

Do you agree that according to the global temperature record used by the IPCC, the rates of global warming from 1860-1880, 1910-1940 and 1975-1998 were identical?

An initial point to make is that in the responses to these questions I’ve assumed that when you talk about the global temperature record, you mean the record that combines the estimates from land regions with those from the marine regions of the world. CRU produces the land component, with the Met Office Hadley Centre producing the marine component.
Temperature data for the period 1860-1880 are more uncertain, because of sparser coverage, than for later periods in the 20th Century. The 1860-1880 period is also only 21 years in length. As for the two periods 1910-40 and 1975-1998 the warming rates are not statistically significantly different (see numbers below).
I have also included the trend over the period 1975 to 2009, which has a very similar trend to the period 1975-1998.
So, in answer to the question, the warming rates for all 4 periods are similar and not statistically significantly different from each other.

read his reply yourself
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8511670.stm
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August 23, 2016 10:20pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@William of Ockham

You don’t want to accept the science is right and you are wrong.

A scientist should always be testing their ideas/hypotheses/theories to show that they are WRONG.

Settled science is never good science.

Kenneth Richard has amassed a total of 806 recent peer-reviewed published papers (Jan 2014-June 2016) that are sceptical of the consensus science . Natural factors are the dominant climate forces.
The IPCC literature reviews are way out of date.
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August 23, 2016 11:06pm
William of Ockham

Maggy Wassilieff. Yep, good scientists should be sceptical. You seriously suppose all those thousands of climate scientists aren’t sceptical? Challenging the science? Each other?

The science is only settled to the extent the evidence shows that the emission of CO2 is causing global warming.

Natural factors do not explain the global warming.

806 peer-reviewed papers deny the consensus? Yeah right!
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August 23, 2016 11:22pm
William of Ockham

Maggy Wassilieff. Sorry, I deleted a post to edit it. If you take certain intervals, you can show there no changes of statistical significance. That does not mean there are no changes. Nor does it negate a trend.

Graphs from independent sources show global warming, most markedly in the last 50 years.

Or do you think Phil Jones has discovered the real truth and is keeping shtum?

Kriss X can’t see that climategate was no more than a beat-up by the lying oil lobby, either.
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August 23, 2016 11:23pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@William of Ockham

Why bother asking me questions?

You have clearly stated that I lack mental agility and you know lots of clever folks…

Ask them.
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August 23, 2016 11:40pm
William of Ockham

No, Maggy, I said I know other PhDs cleverer than you who also deny climate change. That wasn’t intended as an insult.

I’ve just spent some time staying with old mates from a former life. Richard, FRCS, FRCR, MBA, etc, had a practice in Harley Street and had an MRI scan before NZ did. Consultant to top hospitals and trouble-shooter for the NHS. Thinks climate change is rubbish. So we didn’t talk about it. Other successful blokes, likewise.

It’s an age thing, Maggy. Can’t teach an old dog new tricks. Even top dogs have their day.

I never knew any tricks. That’s why I could change sides, eventually. Lacked the essential arrogance to think I knew better than my betters.
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August 24, 2016 12:12am
Left Right and Centre

PhD – can mean ‘doctor of philosophy’.
Can also mean . . . ‘pot head dipshit’.

Maggy Wassilieff. Ah, a denier with a PhD. Well, I know plenty, a lot cleverer than you too.

This is when you suspect people are threatened intellectually . . .
Oh no – what if Maggy is better than I am ? How will my tiny precious little ego cope with that one ?
I know lots of clever people – lots and lots !! Am I really reading shit like that or what ? Who are these people ?

It’s an age thing, Maggy. Can’t teach an old dog new tricks. Even top dogs have their day.

What a load of fcuking old *shit* – ring overnight talkback – do something ‘useful’.
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August 24, 2016 3:56am
William of Ockham

@ Left Right and Centre. Thoughtful contribution. Hope Maggy appreciates you.
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August 24, 2016 4:31am
Manolo

CNN defends its boss:
http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/23/cnn-cries-sexism-during-discussion-about-hillarys-health-video/
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August 24, 2016 6:57am
Manolo

stephieboy and George Clooney will be deeply disappointed:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3754969/La-Dolce-BITTER-Lake-Como-residents-express-outrage-refugee-influx-hundreds-migrants-seek-slip-Swiss-border-claim-asylum.html
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August 24, 2016 7:03am
Manolo

Angry Andy could try this trick in NZ:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3754665/Straight-talking-honest-politics-Jeremy-Corbyn-faces-claims-DID-seat-train-journey-pictured-working-floor.html

An extraordinary row broke out today after Virgin Trains flatly denied claims by Jeremy Corbyn that a train journey was so ram-packed’ he was forced to sit on the floor – and released video footage to prove it.

The Labour leader was filmed sprawled on the floor on a Virgin service from London to Newcastle earlier, where he was taking part in hustings against rival Owen Smith.

In a video issued by his campaign team last week, Mr Corbyn slammed the private railway operators for allowing overcrowding and forcing staff to go on strike.

Founder Richard Branson entered the remarkable public spat, saying the CCTV footage released by Virgin today showed Mr Corbyn had walked past ’empty and unreserved seats’ before posing for the publicity footage.
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August 24, 2016 7:06am
Griff

Kenneth Richard has amassed a total of 806 recent peer-reviewed published papers (Jan 2014-June 2016) that are sceptical of the consensus science . Natural factors are the dominant climate forces.
The IPCC literature reviews are way out of date.

Nope maggy many of them support the consensus directly .
A few are neutral .
What you are doing is tacking papers on local effects and natural variability and claiming they are refuting Global warming.
Here is a hint in case you really are that thick.
Global warming is warming of the globe due to co2 among other actions of man.
This is settled .
Climate change is the effect this has on the climate.
Still under debate as to exactly how.
This climate change doesn’t mean all places will warm at the same rate.
Some will even cool. A paper that examines such local effects and natural variability is not one that disputes global warming.
In fact many of them even point this out.
No tricks zone is a repository of misdirection and bullshit for the gullible and stupid.
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August 24, 2016 8:04am
GoVege

Kriss X: I bet you don’t look your food in the face before you eat them, my friend.
This is what separates civilized humans from the savages.
Killing our fellow humans is only one step removed from slaughtering other animals.
That’s why the Nazis had to build the concentration camps away from public eye, whereas in countries like Rwanda they were able to get most of the populace to join in the bloodbath.
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August 24, 2016 10:52am

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