General Debate 16 August 2016

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oldpark

Never in doubt . NZ Hockey Girls, Rio Olympic darlins, hammer Australian Hockey Girls 4-2.
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August 16, 2016 8:05am
Maggy Wassilieff

You would imagine by now that the newspapers would be splashing some accurate and helpful information about the major health crisis in Havelock North on their front pages and displaying it prominently on their websites.
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August 16, 2016 8:06am
dave_c_

Here comes the EU equivalent in our neck of the woods.

a Moderm Neo-liberal structure in treaty form ! Covering vastly more than ‘trade’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7wzmgiE_nE
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August 16, 2016 8:11am
Manolo

America’s Merkel: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/08/15/trump-foreign-policy-speech/

“Hillary Clinton wants to be America’s Angela Merkel and you know what a disaster this massive immigration has been to Germany and the people of Germany,” Trump said. “It is a catastrophe.”
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August 16, 2016 8:12am
Captain Mainwaring

Nobody’s saying if the Havelock North crisis had anything to do with the power cuts during the big snowstorm which might have affected the sewerage pumping stations.
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August 16, 2016 8:12am
Happychappy

Jane Kelsey must think that she is the voice of the opposition against the Government over our spy laws.It won’t be long before she will have the public so called watchdog and advocate for one law for Penny Bright and a different law for the rest of Auckland organising the rent a mob to start protesting
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August 16, 2016 8:16am
flipper

Maggy Wassilieff (3,807 comments) says:

August 16th, 2016 at 8:06 am

You would imagine by now that the newspapers n…….
+++++++++++++

Yes, but they have obviously been unable to find a BS academic “expert”, especially one who will say that John Key personally doped the water …….
No ???
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August 16, 2016 8:20am
Maggy Wassilieff

@Captain Mainwaring

As far as I can figure.. Havelock North’s water came from 2 untreated bores.

The heavy rains from last weekend may be a factor in the contamination….. there was a 3rd bore in the area that became contaminated previously after heavy rains.

All very 3rd World.
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August 16, 2016 8:20am
Keeping Stock

@ Happychappy – my spies in Auckland tell me that Penny was seen at the Warehouse last night buying up all their supplies of tinfoil…
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August 16, 2016 8:22am
Keeping Stock

The big issue in Havelock North is the lack of communication from the local council. They knew there was a significant problem on Friday, but didn’t call a media conference until Saturday.

I guess they were all too busy getting their nomination forms to the Returning Officer on Friday to have a presser. Of course in electoral terms, this couldn’t have happened at a less opportune time.
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August 16, 2016 8:24am
Maggy Wassilieff

@Keeping Stock

They had a dodgy result last Tuesday… didn’t chlorinate immediately; even though they have had 2 prior contaminations by Escherichia coli

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/310964/animal-faeces-in-water-supply-may-be-cause-of-gastro-outbreak
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August 16, 2016 8:29am
Happychappy

I wonder how long it will take Andrew Little to do a u turn on the GCSB Bill and call it a abuse of power, you can bet your bottom dollar he will throw the toys out of the cot and try and make a problem for the National Goverment
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August 16, 2016 8:30am
tom hunter

I’m still amused at Shawn Herles’s comment the other day on Trump and how important “turnout, turnout, turnout” will be on election day in the US. As such I thought he – and other Trumpsters – would enjoy reading this article, which begins with a quote from Trump when asked about this:

We are gonna have tremendous turnout from the evangelicals, from the miners, from the people that make our steel, from people that are getting killed by trade deals, from people that have been just decimated, from the military who are with Trump 100 percent. From our vets because I’m going to take care of the vets.

I don’t know that we need to get out the vote. I think people that really want to vote, they’re gonna just get up and vote for Trump. And we’re going to make America great again.

The writer of the article proceeds to deal with the nuts and bolts of turnout:

For the most part, voting is a pain. Some people sign up to have a polling place located in the garage of their suburban homes; those folks have it figured out. For most people, though, voting requires heading out to a random church or school you visit once every other November and waiting in line for your chance to pick which county supervisor you think will do the best job. When it’s raining or if you are unimpressed with the candidates on the ballot or if you have to work a double shift, you’re very naturally less likely to vote.

This is why political campaigns put money and staff on the job of making sure people go to the polls. Some people will always vote, no matter what. A lot of people will probably vote — and they’re the ones that the campaigns will spend all day on Election Day bothering, checking polling places to see if they’ve voted already and showing up at their door — maybe even offering a ride! — if they haven’t.

Hillary Clinton has vast resources of people and money and data analytics to winkle out all these people and get them to vote.

The Donald has nothing. Zero. Zilch. He’s completely reliant on the Republican National Committee – whose job this is not and has never been. Also, this means that he’s not independent of them and will consequently have to take more notice of them, despite all his boasting – although I would not put it past him to wreck the GOP rather than admit to being a loser, and his followers would likely be gleeful about this – as would every Democrat.

The man is utterly delusional.
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August 16, 2016 8:32am
Odakyu-sen

Re Merkel and Clinton,

The promotion of mass immigration has pros and cons. To grossly simplify things, think of a 2 x 2 matrix, with “Commonality” on one axis, and “Willingness to integrate” on the other.

Commonality (how much like us are they like us already?) These factors can take years to change or can not be changed
Willingness to integrate (do they want to become like us?) These factors can be changed relatively quickly, if the will is there

Commonality (race, language, and other factors that cannot be changed or take years of study to change)
a. Immigration of people with some commonality to the host nation, for example: Chinese into Japan (similar racial stock), English into Christchurch (same racial stock and a shared language) or
b. Immigration of people no commonality to the host nation

Willingness to integrate (attitudes, cultures, religions and other factors than can quickly be changed if the will is there)
a. High willingness to integrate
b. Low willingness to integrate

Any comments on this way of looking at immigration?

Of course, once communities become established in places like Howick or Mt. Roskill, environments more attractive to certain immigrants are created. After all, “Birds of a feather flock together,” such is human nature.
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August 16, 2016 8:33am
flipper

Comments to me by two HB Council friends – one Hastings, the other HB Dist……..

A HB Councillor:

“To the best of my knowledge the water supply to Hastings and Havelock North are out of separate artesian aquifers and are not chlorinated. The H.N. one is being treated now as a temporary measure until this problem is sorted.
No one knows at this stage how the bug got into he bore but no doubt the Anti-dam people will say it has something to do with the dam!!
OK– only being facetious, but they have tried everything else–even a Rent A Crowd bunch of Aucklanders from Greenpeace. “

and from a Hastings Councillor:

“It is horrendous. I have been in bed for 4 days.
Our water is not normally chlorinated but clearly needed to be last week.
Heard Lawrence say council has to accept some responsibilty. I would have thought all the responsibility.
You are right not good his eighth campaign. Time he went but the little old ladies love him…. “

BTW…..
Six (6) litres of chlorine (domestic Janola will do) treats about 10,000L of water ….but should also be boiled as a safety net.
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August 16, 2016 8:35am
kowtow

GCSB Bill ?

More of that diversity dividend , ironic how government immigration and refugee policies have a knock on effect on security policy.

Which immigrants and refugees are so dangerous we need these legislative changes ? I suppose it must be easier to change this law than to keep the danger out.
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August 16, 2016 8:36am
Odakyu-sen

The down-ticker is back?
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August 16, 2016 8:38am
EAD

An interesting dissection of the children’s film Maya the Bee and how it’s been changed from being a book written in Aesop’s Fables style that shows the values of family, community, nation and how the “modern” remake is all globalist and multicult that shows the values of “diversity”.

If you have ever wondered why todays youths views are increasingly at odds with older generations, you only need to look at the education and entertainment industry that is putting all these warped ideas into impressionable minds.

As Aristotle once said: ““Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.”

http://nwioqeqkdf.blogspot.com/2016/08/from-nazi-to-sjw-evolution-of-maya-bee.html

This paragraph reminds me of the scenes we witnessed when European girls were holding up “refugeees welcome” signs at the airport welcoming the invaders at the start of the 2015 European spring, who have brutally through experience, learned that it is a harsh world out there and that individualistic wishy-washy sentiment will always lose to a collective mindset

In the 2014 happy-clappy multicult version there is no cruel spider because the message they’re sending out to young girls is that there are no dangers or predators in the world, indeed, the SJW Maya would probably be lobbying the queen to make arachnophobia a Hate Crime.

Maya finally begins to see the folly of her idealistic, carefree existence after being captured by the hornets.
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August 16, 2016 8:40am
Manolo

Only merciful and omnipotent Allah saved our own imam Padriv from injury:
http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/man-injured-by-harpoon-during-riot-on-corsica-beach-after-tourist-takes-photo-of-woman-in-burkini/ar-BBvDple?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=mailsignout

Riot police were summoned and a man was injured by a harpoon when a mass brawl broke out on a beach in Corsica, apparently triggered by a tourist taking a photo of women in “burkinis”.

The incident came after the mayor of Cannes banned women from wearing the full-body, head-covering swimsuits on beaches of his Riviera town.
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August 16, 2016 8:46am
stephieboy

EAD, surely Usain Bolt immortalised 3 x100 meter gold medal winner will be inducted into your hall of fame honorary white master race ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvz0h0ihtaQ
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August 16, 2016 8:50am
MT_Tinman

Maggy Wassilieff (3,809 comments) says:
August 16th, 2016 at 8:20 am

@Captain Mainwaring

As far as I can figure.. Havelock North’s water came from 2 untreated bores.

Little and King?
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August 16, 2016 8:52am
G152

The ‘republican party’ keeps up not supporting Trump
means they’re allowing the democrats to keep power.
Talk about cutting the nose off to spite the face
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August 16, 2016 8:57am
AgentBallSack

Hai Kiwiblog,
Show me a religion that is as deadly and as hateful and intolerant as the cult formerly known as the religion of peace, Islam.
protip: you can’t.

>inb4 fuck off stephiebitch
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August 16, 2016 8:59am
tom hunter

Eleven downticks to my post already. Trumpsters hard at work. No counter-arguments of course. #Low Energy. Sad.
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August 16, 2016 9:00am
3-coil

National minister Michael Woodhouse lost his cool on his social media page when questioned about tightening up immigration. Woodhouse told the commenter that he was on his page and that he was a “redneck”.

If it’s National’s new policy to slur anyone questioning their immigration policy with the inflammatory and toxic “redneck” label then the party is in trouble. The Immigration Minister should be listening to the citizens, not displaying his own prejudices. If Woodhouse doesn’t shut his neck and pull his head in he’ll be dancing to Winston Peters’ tune after the next election.
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August 16, 2016 9:01am
Keeping Stock

Maggy – I tough Lawrence Yule said yesterday (on Paul Henry) that Tuesday’s test was clear, but there was contamination evident when the water was tested on Thursday. By Friday people were getting crook, and on Saturday they went public with calls for people to boil water etc.

There certainly seems to have been a high level of sitting on hands by the council, and all those who have been flowing from both ends as a result will be understandably upset with both their elected representatives and council staff’s tardy response to what is a significant health event. Having previously suffered Campylobacter myself losing a stone in two days, I know it’s not something I’d wish on anyone.
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August 16, 2016 9:04am
Nookin

No counter-arguments of course

Come now, Tom. Surely you are not suggesting that the enunciation of rational thought has any part to play in the idolisation of Team Trump
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August 16, 2016 9:08am
dave_c_

2017 – Greek citizens will have to declare it all !

Would this ever happen here ?

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2016/08/14/greeks-will-have-to-declare-to-tax-office-even-cash-below-100-euro/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+KeepTalkingGreece+%28Keep+Talking+Greece%29
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August 16, 2016 9:08am
Griff

No counter-arguments of course.

Do you really want to debate them Tom ?
Engaging with the low info cohort of trumpies is not going to give you any intellectual challenge just a load of contradictory talking points and blind slightly homo erotic fan boi love
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August 16, 2016 9:12am
dave_c_

@Griff and Tom

I suppose if this blog doesn’t provide you with enough mental and intellectual stimulation, you can always go elsewhere

Just saying.
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August 16, 2016 9:15am
Manolo

Soros, billionaire darling of the Left, enemy of Israel:
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Hacked-Soros-e-mails-reveal-plans-to-fight-Israels-racist-policies-464149#article=6017QTMwNUU1MzRGNjM1RUZDQ0QyQjU1RTEzRjc0Mzk3N0Y

Hacked emails show that the Open Society Foundations, led by George Soros, has as an objective “challenging Israel’s racist and anti-democratic policies” in international forums, in part by questioning Israel’s reputation as a democracy.
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August 16, 2016 9:15am
minto57

The governments ponzie scheme will fail. Immigration is becoming quite emotive as the numbers keep climbing with aliens undercuting the job market and cheap overseas money stealing the housing
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August 16, 2016 9:18am
dave_c_

@Minto57

I am convinced (at least in my mind) that Key and co have been leveraged into the same proposition as European governments.

Accept mass immigration from allcomers, or else.

You will see that they are assimilated into NZ society, and if required do as Germany has obviously been instructed to do – Pay them to ensure they can locate accommodation, jobs, entitlements et al….

After all, BLM world-wide.
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August 16, 2016 9:21am
Inandout

3-coil: Woodhouse is the younger version of ‘possum in the headlights’ McCully, although possibly not as Machiavellian. National won’t budge on their immigration policy until the heat becomes too much, and voters swing in greater numbers to other parties. Woodhouse meantime had best follow Holyoake’s great advice for political saplings; ‘breathe through their noses’, to lessen embarrassing outbursts. And Woody had best remember he is a List MP, a political pond dweller, in the same league as Andy Little. Get properly voted in next time you twit.
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August 16, 2016 9:21am
Scott Hamilton

‘surely Usain Bolt immortalised inducted into the white master race ?’

Heh. I reckon that, in the era of super-regulated athletics and a quasi-fascist cult of training-as-suffering, chilled out Bolt is the new Jesse Owens:
http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2008/08/why-usain-bolt-is-new-jesse-owens.html
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August 16, 2016 9:24am
Captain Mainwaring

Followed a late model Lexus SUV this morning. Driving into the sun with the inside of the windscreen completely fogged up. Trying to clear it with hands as they drove. Just missed rear-ending another car which was stopped for a red light.
No idea how to operate the demisting system.
In case you were wondering, yes they were Asians.
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August 16, 2016 9:25am
stephieboy

dave c, evidence that the Key government is been leveraged into “Accept mass immigration from allcomers, or else.” ?

Who exactly is instructing Germany do to what ?
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August 16, 2016 9:26am
dave_c_

As if there’s not enough issue in international sport (Olympics included) with drugs, we get this festering away on the sidelines, about to erupt in everyones face

Should Caster Semanya be allowed to compete as a woman? Tipped for 800m gold, she has no ovaries, nearly as much testosterone as a man and has sparked a huge ethical debate
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August 16, 2016 9:29am
stephieboy

Captian Mainwaring,

were Asians involved in this Hamilton horror car crash killing four ?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/81449773/young-mum-among-four-people-killed-in-high-speed-crash-near-hamilton

All kinds of people do dumb and careless things whilst driving !
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August 16, 2016 9:31am
AgentBallSack

A Corrections spokesperson told residents at a meeting last week that the offender would have a minder for 24 hours a day, as well as wearing an electronic bracelet, to comply with the conditions of an extended supervision order used to monitor and manage the long-term risk posed by an offender.

How much does it cost to have round the clock monitoring, GPS and paying for this guys rent/food/electricity for 10 years?
If you are this dangerous to the community you should never be let out of prison.

Cheaper just to buy a bullet. (Not condoning vigilante action but if I lived on Maungaraki Rd, in an odd numbered house between 111 and 131, I would be extremely fucked off that my kids were in danger from a thrice convicted sex offender who has name suppression)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/83202506/lower-hutt-residents-petitioning-government-to-rid-communities-of-highrisk-offenders
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August 16, 2016 9:33am
tom hunter

dave_c_ (931 comments) says:
August 16th, 2016 at 9:15 am
…
I suppose if this blog doesn’t provide you with enough mental and intellectual stimulation, you can always go elsewhere

Just saying.

I’m just looking for practical counter-arguments to my points about Trump – and by argument I mean something more than “Trump is a genius. Trump will smash Hillary”.

Only once I have something to work from Trumpists will I find whether they provide intellectual stimulation.

My hopes are not high.
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August 16, 2016 9:39am
AgentBallSack

tom:
He isn’t Hillary Clinton. Now piss off and do some work.
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August 16, 2016 9:41am
Albert_Ross

I am convinced (at least in my mind) that Key and co have been leveraged into the same proposition as European governments.

Accept mass immigration from allcomers, or else.

New Zealand does not have a policy of accepting mass immigration from allcomers.
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August 16, 2016 9:44am
tom hunter

This is work, ABS. Trying to change the hearts and minds of the deluded.

I’m currently working with the anarchist Yoza on other threads. He’s even more far gone than the Trumpsters. And sadly for them (and the rest of us), simply not being Hillary is not enough. That’s the arguments made on The Standard re Little vs Key. It’s not working here either.

Besides, this is a political blog is it not? And I’ve been here since 2003 enjoying it as such. 🙂
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August 16, 2016 9:47am
Griff

Just maybe dave c some of us here for the laughs people like you give us .
Do you have some interesting slightly insane tinfoil engendering conspiracy theory for us to carefully examine if you dont want to be embarrassed by supporting the orange sprayed one in public?
John Key is owned by a consortium of Jewish bankers as per your previus posts insinuation could do at a pinch….please expand .
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August 16, 2016 9:50am
minto57

Trump appeals to the ignorant he does not have to articulate detail only the sound bite.
I am a winner being one of his favourites
As we know everybody likes a winner
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August 16, 2016 9:50am
Stars And Stripes

Gambling on pokie machines is ruining New Zealand and pushing people into poverty right?
Well this is the commonly accepted position by the media and the variety of opponents to pokies to push their agenda to try and stop the Sky City deal and to constantly try and further regulate and reduce their presence in clubs and the like.
Well to cut through all the smoke and bullshit here are some facts to consider, note this data pertains to non casino gaming machines in NZ:
1. The number of machines in NZ has decreased from 25221 in 2003 to 16614 by 2015.
2. The number of people seeking help for gambling problems in NZ has increased from 4441 in 2007 to 7211 in 2015 with 50% of these reporting their primary addiction was to non casino gaming machines.

So while the numbers of machines have gone down the numbers of people seeking treatment has increased, does this support the position that they are a social evil pushing people into poverty?
No it does not.
In fact the authors of the study I refer too conclude the following:
“The NZ problem gambling prevalence rate over time bears no correlation to the number of gaming machines operating in NZ”.
http://www.gamblinglaw.co.nz/download/Research/TAInfo.pdf
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August 16, 2016 9:53am
minto57

@ Albert_Ross
If it walks like a duck
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August 16, 2016 9:54am
AgentBallSack

tom what do you care?
Theyre both fucking idiots. Trump suffers from narcissistic personality disorder and Hillary is a crooked liberal.
Arguing with people here to prove a point or to get them to see your point of view is synonymous with King Canute ordering the tide to not come in.

Ultimately pointless.
Surely you have paint drying or grass growing to watch somewhere?
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August 16, 2016 9:54am
stephieboy

AgentBallSack

“Ultimately pointless.
Surely you have paint drying or grass growing to watch somewhere?”

You should talk , old cock !

I understanding Trump is trailing in Colorado of all places.

http://www.kvue.com/news/local/poll-trump-trailing-in-multiple-swing-states/296144858

Hmm.. !
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August 16, 2016 10:03am
tom hunter

tom what do you care?

Well as it happens I have rather a lot invested in the old USA – and I mean family, not money.

Moreover, I first came to Kiwiblog because the alternative was Reality TV or some other shite, the broadcasters having long ago given up on ideas.

And the ideas I saw many people spouting at parties and gatherings seemed to be learned from those sources, were painfully stupid, and yet dominated their voting and lives. I’ll grant you that blogs like KB are not ideal, but they’re better than arguing with somebody solely informed by OneNews. I can’t judge my contribution but I gather that KB may have had more of an impact on NZ politics than mere click-views would indicate, although I’ll grant you that the sheer inertia of laziness involved engaging with the MSM probably still dominates. But what am I to do.

Surely you have paint drying or grass growing to watch somewhere?

I face the prospect of crawling under the house to install a new power outlet in my son’s room for the computer he’s building. I’m willing to do almost anything to procrastinate on this job.

Not to put too fine a point on it – but what are you doing here? Is it all just shits and giggles – because I can play that game too.
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August 16, 2016 10:04am
srylands

I see The Standard has gone full retard on spying. Again. Because that worked so well at the 2014 election.

http://thestandard.org.nz/spy-vs-us/#comments
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August 16, 2016 10:04am
Sideoiler

simply not being Hillary is not enough.

Neither is I have a vagina and its my turn.
I wouldn’t write Trump off and I don’t think he is the answer, but Clinton is definitely not.
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August 16, 2016 10:08am
AgentBallSack

tom -:
Shits & giggles mainly. Occasionally I learn something.
As for the crawling under the house – I hear ya. Had to do that recently for UFB. Apparently cats love shitting in the solitude a house above them provides :/
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August 16, 2016 10:09am
EAD

Hey Tom Hunter,

Looks like the MSM has been lying to you (just likeep they lied on Brexit) – Trump is ahead in the polls:

http://www.dailystormer.com/breitbart-commissions-poll-trump-leads-clinton-42-to-37/

One has to wonder about any of these polls, given that virtually no one under the age of 60 owns a home phone anymore, and different sorts of polls are using different percentages of cellphones – some of them not at all.

Back in December, WaPo is a big polling article – about Trump, of course – where they showed that he was getting three different types of results in three different types of polls.

Back in the days when everyone had a phone in their home, and you could just call houses at random, they were much more difficult to manipulate polling data. Now, it seems this data is so easily gathered in a skewed manner that the polls are useless.

That is without mentioning the fact that national polls are always going to be useless in elections that are decided by swing states. In the swing states, of course, Trump is either winning or tied.

The fact is, despite all of this endless media noise about how his campaign is collapsing, Trump is in fact better positioned to win in November than Hillary Clinton.
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August 16, 2016 10:09am
Keeping Stock

@ srylands – I held my breath, and followed your link; wow! I loved this comment:

adam 4
15 August 2016 at 11:47 pm

I wonder if people will wake up to the fact we have no left wing in New Zealand at this point?

People here and elsewhere can bang on about how left they are, how much we need a change of government how much better it will be under a labour led government.

I’m calling B.S.

Any support of the extension of the state to pry into people’s lives means you are a authoritarian wingnut.

This starts making the stasi look down right civil.

I hope the libertarians start kicking up a stink, but I doubt it – seems their boy Rimmer is supporting this too.

Last week The Standard’s commentariat was lauding Little for outing all the righties in the party and turning hard Left. But today, he’s an “authoritarian wingnut”! It’s almost enough to make you feel sorry for the poor bugger.
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August 16, 2016 10:11am
Griff

Umm tom
Installing power points is the sole right of electricians as placing three color coded wires in the correct clearly labeled receptacle is beyond us laymen
I hope you are not ignoring the collective organized body of electricians capture of the industry’s legal requirements and doing such a basic job your self. You are required by law to pay ~~some halfwit~~a certified tradesman two hours traveling at minimum an hours labour and an exorbitant markup on any goods supplied to do the job as and when he decides to bless your doorstep with his presence.
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August 16, 2016 10:17am
tom hunter

EAD (3,962 comments) says:
August 16th, 2016 at 10:09 am
Hey Tom Hunter,

Looks like the MSM has been lying to you (just likeep they lied on Brexit) – Trump is ahead in the polls:

“I face the prospect of crawling under the house to install a new power outlet in my son’s room for the computer he’s building. I’m willing to do almost anything to procrastinate on this job.”

Must…
Keep…
Saying…
That..
To..
Myself

Sigh – okay. Will click on a Trumpster link, even one provided by Nazi EAD. Will report back.
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August 16, 2016 10:17am
Manolo

Quality people (mates of our multiculturalist) are moving to Europe:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3741766/Knife-wielding-migrants-targeting-motorists-using-bats-weapons-just-fun-innocent-motorists-sit-traffic-Calais.html

Meanwhile, locals living near the French port city have also warned drivers to avoid the area and have reportedly said migrants are not checking whether children are inside the vehicles before they attack them.

Ms Mayla posted photographs of her brother-in-law’s vehicle and wrote that it sustained more than £435 worth of damage when it was set upon by ’15 migrants’ who carried out the attack ‘just for fun’.
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August 16, 2016 10:25am
Griff

Dear dear
The “polling” company is.
http://gravismarketing.com/
We are your one-stop PR shop for political campaigns, consultants, and organizations.
By having a multi-talented in-house staff that specializes in all elements of your PR campaign, we eliminate the middlemen and pass the savings on to you.

No link to who they are other than a glossy webshite .

Yip reputable poling that EAD
In the land of gullible easily manipulated wonks.
Back here in the real wold it is called PR
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August 16, 2016 10:25am
EAD

Hey Tom,

Before you “report back”, I’ve previously commented here on GD with my views on the “daily stormer” website:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2016/05/general_debate_10_may_2016.html#comment-1712238

I can’t stand that putrid site but I know that by linking a Trump article to it, it will send you, MM, Stephiebot & Sam Green into a self righteous lather…

Mission accomplished.
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August 16, 2016 10:27am
tom hunter

Oh dear – it was not Breitbart but a National Socialist site (it’s EAD, so of course). I’ll start with the last comment from that site:

The fact is, despite all of this endless media noise about how his campaign is collapsing, Trump is in fact better positioned to win in November than Hillary Clinton.

No argument given to support this “fact” aside from references to the well known issue with polling around traditional, fixed home phone lines. No arguments about money, manpower, TV advertising, GOTV organisation, data analytics, and all the rest of the machinery of a modern political campaign. Apparently this will be all about the triumph of the will, The Donald’s will.

That is without mentioning the fact that national polls are always going to be useless in elections that are decided by swing states.

Yay. They’ve got one clue and…

In the swing states, of course, Trump is either winning or tied.

….Oh dear. No actually they don’t show that at all. Trump was at level pegging in Florida for a while, but seems to be losing ground again in the latest ones.

I’ll note that it is strange to demonise the national polls as ((((rigged)))), while the state polls are not, when they’re usually run by the same companies Presumably they are rigged now that they show Donald losing.

So, away from the filth towards good old Brietbart..

Kaplan said it is normal for third-party candidates to lose support as the general election gets closer.

“With Johnson and Stein pulling 12 percent and 7 percent undecided, there are still voters sloshing around — the question is whether they swing to Clinton or Trump,” he said.

“There is no incumbent, but Clinton is the status quo. It is common for the undecideds to break for the challenger, which would be Trump, the more she clings to Obama,”

Hang on.

Trumpsters have delighted in telling me that this is not a normal election. That the old rules don’t apply.

Now they do?

Assuming this is not a normal General Election for POTUS, it could be that third-party supporters don’t move away as the election approaches, that former Trump and Hillary supporters could move to the thrid parties: that they won’t break for the traditional challenger.

So Trumpsters: is this a normal election where the old rules still apply – or not?

Your serve.

UPDATE

EAD (3,963 comments) says:
August 16th, 2016 at 10:27 am
….
Mission accomplished.

Oh is that your mission? I thought it might be about winning arguments.

Well, in that case I look forward to you and your ideas losing even worse than they already have.
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August 16, 2016 10:35am
Albert_Ross

If it walks like a duck

It does not.
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August 16, 2016 10:38am
Manolo

Fifteen animals who will soon go back to fight against the US:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/15/guantanamo-bay-inmates-transferred-obama

The largest single transfer of Guantánamo Bay detainees of Barack Obama’s presidency occurred on Monday, as 15 long-held men departed the infamous detention center.

The transfer, expected to be officially announced by the Pentagon on Monday afternoon, brings the Guantánamo detainee population down to 61.
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August 16, 2016 10:45am
Kimbo

@ tom hunter

Sigh – okay. Will click on a Trumpster link, even one provided by Nazi EAD. Will report back.

You seem to be scratching around today for conversation topics in the absence of Trump cheerleaders like deadrightkev and Scott. How ’bout them Cubs? Dropped a game to the Cards, I see.

What can it mean when they fire their DJ? Sounds like the makings of another curse of the Billy Goat…

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-cubs-dj-song-aroldis-chapman-spt-0816-20160815-story.html
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August 16, 2016 10:53am
Scott

Don’t know, the polls look bad for Trump right now but things can change, it’s only August and the election is not till November.
Also the msm is full anti Trump right now and ignoring Clinton’s many problems.

But I believe in crowds and enthusiasm. Trump attracts huge crowds and huge enthusiasm. Hillary has poor crowds and little enthusiasm. Trump fills stadiums, Hillary cannot fill a high school gym.

So let’s extrapolate to the general – those who don’t turn out to watch Hillary now will not turn out to vote for her, if you accept the thesis that voting is difficult. Those who turned out for Trump even in the middle of winter, will go out and vote for him.

Now people may point to Romney getting big crowds? However I would argue that Obama always got big crowds and enthusiastic support from his base. Hillary doesn’t have that same level of support and enthusiasm.

So I am still very hopeful that Trump has the support and the polls will start to tighten hearing towards November. And if it’s close then Trump will win because of the shy Trumpsters and it’s an outsiders year.
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August 16, 2016 11:01am
Kimbo

Loved this

In 1908, the Chicago Cubs won the World Series. Since then:..

9. Thirteen presidents were elected and one was appointed…

11. Wrigley Field was built and became the oldest baseball park in the National League

12. Five flag poles, erected at Wrigley Field for the purpose of holding a World Series flag, have worn out and been replaced without ever holding a pennant…

and my personal favourite:

15. Halley’s Comet passed the earth twice.

http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/88q1/7433.19.html
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August 16, 2016 11:03am
tom hunter

Holy dog shit! Speaking of … self righteous lather…, it looks like I am on the verge of having one of my comments being downticked into oblivion here on Kiwiblog.

First.
Time.
Ever.

Take that mikenmild, cha, Tom Jackson, SquibofDullness – even morons like Gabby and Morrisey. You are once again put to shame by a right-winger. Getting downticked here when you’re a Leftie is a piece of piss. Now my 8:32am one is 6 and 20. Come on Trumpsters – you can do it.

It’s easier than making an argument.

As Gunnery Seargent Hartman would say:

I bet you’re the kind of guy who would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give him a reach-around. I’ll be watching you!
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August 16, 2016 11:06am
tom hunter

Sorry Trumpsters – that last was also meant for meanies who taunt people and their beloved sports teams!!!!
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August 16, 2016 11:06am
Scott

Manolo at 10.45am-quite right, the Obama administration wants to close guantanamo and that’s what they’ll do. They won’t bother with pesky things like congressional approval because for them it’s all executive orders all of the time.

These are either dangerous prisoners who are 90% likely to rejoin the jihad or they are junior varsity players who now realise the error of their ways and will become model citizens? It’s so hard to know which view is correct??
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August 16, 2016 11:12am
Kimbo

@ Scott

Don’t know, the polls look bad for Trump right now but things can change, it’s only August and the election is not till November.

OK, it is always fun to engage with a zealot

Also the msm is full anti Trump right now and ignoring Clinton’s many problems.

So what makes you think they wont be for the next three months?

But I believe in crowds and enthusiasm. Trump attracts huge crowds and huge enthusiasm. Hillary has poor crowds and little enthusiasm. Trump fills stadiums, Hillary cannot fill a high school gym.

Hmm. Worked for Harry Truman in his unexpected-come-from-behind win over Dewey…in the pre-TV era of whistle stops.

So let’s extrapolate to the general – those who don’t turn out to watch Hillary now will not turn out to vote for her, if you accept the thesis that voting is difficult. Those who turned out for Trump even in the middle of winter, will go out and vote for him.

Now people may point to Romney getting big crowds? However I would argue that Obama always got big crowds and enthusiastic support from his base. Hillary doesn’t have that same level of support and enthusiasm.

So I am still very hopeful that Trump has the support and the polls will start to tighten hearing towards November. And if it’s close then Trump will win because of the shy Trumpsters and it’s an outsiders year.

Why stop at Romney? Why not McGovern? His supporters were a hell of lot more enthused than Nixon’s in 1972, and that sure as hell tiurned into a landslide (Massachusetts replaced Texas as the “Lone Star State” 😉 )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1972
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August 16, 2016 11:24am
Fletch

A lawyer representing the mothers of the men killed in Benghazi in the lawsuit against Hillary Clinton says she now has nothing to hide behind.

She has no immunity. Some people have said without looking at the law that there is immunity or there is not. When you violate criminal statutes, Aaron, and as you know, which she did. And Rudy Giuliani, former mayor of New York, former deputy attorney-general, and myself and others have pointed out the statutes that she violated. Even the FBI director admitted, although he didn’t have the guts to recommend prosecution, you lose your immunity. There are Supreme Court cases on that.

And the defamatory statements, several of them were made while Mrs. Clinton was no longer Secretary of State. They were made as a private person running for the presidency. So she has no immunity. She is totally exposed to this. And we are looking for justice. This is not a question of money. But she should lose the ranch there.

They were branded as liars and all of this was to protect Hillary Clinton’s reputation and have everything swept under the carpet during her presidential run. Now on top of that they were inflicted with emotional distress by Mrs. Clinton. She wanted to shut them up. So that’s why she did it. And they went through a lot of emotional trauma over the whole thing. And they struck back. And consequently they filed a lawsuit against her directly.

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2016/08/15/exclusive-benghazi-victims-lawyer-hillary-clinton-totally-exposed/
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August 16, 2016 11:26am
Manolo

Supine (and traitorous) incompetence:
https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/08/levin-milwaukee-is-in-complete-chaos-and-obamas-out-golfing

Rioting and violence still plague the streets of northern Milwaukee over 48 hours after the death of Sylville Smith, and young black men who was shot to death by a black police officer after resisting arrest Saturday. Local businesses have been set on fire, law enforcement officials have been attacked and injured, and the National Guard has been called in to diffuse the chaos.

“Where’s Barack Obama today?” Mark Levin asked on his radio program Monday night. “He’s playing golf on Martha’s Vineyard.”
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August 16, 2016 11:31am
big bruv

Scott

“Don’t know, the polls look bad for Trump right now but things can change, it’s only August and the election is not till November.
Also the msm is full anti Trump right now and ignoring Clinton’s many problems. ”

You think its going to change?
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August 16, 2016 11:31am
Fletch

Hmm. Worked for Harry Truman in his unexpected-come-from-behind win over Dewey…in the pre-TV era of whistle stops

Yep, there is precedent for candidates gaining a lot more votes in the last push.

This type of disunity is the basic story behind two of the biggest post-convention comebacks in modern history, Hubert Humphrey’s late surge in 1968 and Gerald Ford’s in 1976. Both candidates had divisive conventions, and they left without fully unified parties. Both trailed by double digits in August and September polls, often with less than 35 percent of the vote.

But in the end, the Republican faithful returned to Mr. Ford, and most Northern Democrats returned to Mr. Humphrey. Mr. Ford lost by just two percentage points, and Mr. Humphrey by less than one point. The elections ended up as two of the three closest presidential contests of the 20th century.

If you’re a fan of Mr. Trump looking for hope and a relevant precedent for a comeback, this is my best comparison. No, Mr. Humphrey and Mr. Ford didn’t win. But clearly they could have.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/16/upshot/the-state-of-the-clinton-trump-race-is-it-over.html
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August 16, 2016 11:34am
Rachael Membery

Check out

Givealittle

David Bain Campaign
Cause page created in the New Zealanders category by David Bain Compensation Trust
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August 16, 2016 11:36am
Kimbo

@ Scott

Just for you, as electoral miracles do happen:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/Deweytruman12.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewey_Defeats_Truman

Same thing happened for Ted Heath in 1970 when England lost to Germany in the Football World Cup a couple of days before the British election.

But to clarify, just because “those who turned out for Trump even in the middle of winter, will go out and vote for him”, doesn’t mean their enthusiasm makes their votes worth double Clinton’s…
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August 16, 2016 11:41am
Manolo

We know she is a crook, but is she ill?
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-08-15/hillarys-health-conspiracy-or-concern
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August 16, 2016 11:49am
minus

Rachael Membery
you could have given the balance or the link
current balance $8,833.00
https://explore.givealittle.co.nz/search?q=David+Bain
what was wrong with either or both?
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August 16, 2016 11:55am
waripori

I thought GD would be all over the New York Times Paul Manafort Story. You know. The one about the ledger found in Ukraine showing 12.7 Million in payments to Manafort from Yanukovych and the deal about the State owned assets , Manafort and one of Putin’s buddies. It probably would not mean much if it was not for Trumps recent comments on Nato and Crimea
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August 16, 2016 11:59am
Rachael Membery

minus (553 comments) says:

August 16th, 2016 at 11:55 am

I had commented at 15/08/2016 with some details, it looks to me that the 2 and 5 k sums have been promised from the same source, as the number of donors is less than the number of donations, but then it apparently costs at least a dollar to comment and I think some have commented more than once.
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August 16, 2016 12:00pm
Scott

Yes Kimbo could be right. It could all be about turn out and geeks with their huge computer models and precisely targeted messages and lots of behind the scenes machinations. Or we could believe what we see-for Trump there are huge crowds and huge enthusiasm. He is on every news show, he is everywhere. And his message of making America great again does resonate with a lot of people.

For Hillary we see in comparison small rallies, not much enthusiasm and a basic message of two parts – I am Obama’s 3rd term and I am not Donald Trump. Oh and I’m a woman.

Now Hillary has the advantage of a supine cheerleading msm and Trump has all of the msm dead against him. But still he reaches people through social media and every day he dominates the news cycle.

This election is so interesting and in my opinion gives a clear choice to the USA and by extension the western world for years to come.
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August 16, 2016 12:02pm
Jack5

Radio Labour’s media commentator, Gavin Ellis, this morning advocated that the Bill of Rights Act should be supreme over all other NZ legislation. This is close to the authority the advocates orginally wanted for it. How predictable coming from Ellis and Radio NZ’s Labour Programme.

The original idea was to incorporate the Treaty of Waitangi but to erode Parliamentary sovereignty by the Judiciary having the power to invalidate any act of Parliament, common law rule, or official action which was contrary to the Bill of Rights.

This was watered down to the present form of the legislation.

If Radio NZ were not so Leftist it might rotate the media commentary across people with various political stances.
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August 16, 2016 12:03pm
Scott Hamilton

Did anyone else enjoy seeing the Fijians sevens team enjoying some narcotics at this supposedly drug-free Olympics? http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/who-needs-drug-free-olympics.html
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August 16, 2016 12:09pm
Jack5

Perhaps some of the lawyers who frequent Kiwiblog can explain to us plebs why juries are not allowed to know the records of people on trial?

Do lawyers and judges think we ordinary folk are too thick, or too fickle, or too emotional, to be allowed to weigh up an accused’s character?

The latest example is in the killing of young Luke Tipene, a sportsman with potential. The perpretator had a violence record but not only was the jury not told this, but the media was delayed in being able to report it.

Surely the jury should have been allowed to know this when deciding between murder and manslaughter.

Well done the Hooerald for its coverage of this.

Has our justice system been hijacked by liberals from safe, leafy suburbs – folk more interested in criminals than in victims?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11694790
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August 16, 2016 12:14pm
Jack5

Re Scott at 12.00: the Fijians were drinking their kava after their victory. Do narcotics after events count?

Scott, as a Pacific scholar, you might explain the team’s bows to Princess Anne as she put medals on their necks. Was this just because they are so tall and were on a podium?
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August 16, 2016 12:16pm
dave_c_

Fit to assume POTUS ???

https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2016/08/12/strange-bulges-under-hillarys-coat-suggest-a-defibrillator-vest/
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August 16, 2016 12:17pm
DJP6-25

tom hunter 10:04. I always read your posts. I guess Democrats and Republicans alike are stuck with the prospect of holding their noses and voting for the party’s candidate. Voters on both sides will have misgivings. HC has credibility problems. Even the MSM are asking a few questions about her assorted lies. DT still suffers from ‘foot in mouth syndrome’. The Republican ground game leaves much to be desired. In an ideal world, there’d be ideal candidates. Keep posting Tom.
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August 16, 2016 12:31pm
RF

If I was a person who gambles or takes bets I would be putting good money on crooked Hillary pulling out of the race on Medical grounds. There are too many instances where she has presented as someone who is not well. Possibly both mentally and physically.
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August 16, 2016 12:33pm
kowtow

Woodhouse comments.

Woody’s a twat for responding to a twat on social media. His interlocutor is a thick lad who seems to have thought Woody has something to do with UK immigration. The minister should have simply ignored him.

A number of concerns though.

The minister is an idiot for engaging in a childish on line exchange
He seems to think that “redneck” is acceptable …….would “black neck” be? No fucking way.
He says we don’t let “dick heads” into the country. Well , we’ve admitted a lot of refugees who have committed crimes , quite a few Indians and Chinese who are before the courts and a heck of a lot of Muslims who are on no travel lists and who are stretching our security services……

……..who’s the “dick head”?

ps The ODT seem to think that voting Brexit is a sign of something significant ….. do fuck off.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/not-same-page-all-really
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August 16, 2016 12:33pm
starboard

Woodhouse, the list MP, is way out of his depth. “ya hear me woodhouse..you’re way out of your depth ”

WP will sort the Nats next year..they are getting that stale arrogant 3rd term stench about them.
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August 16, 2016 12:37pm
Komata

Out of interest: Is anyone here aware that Louisiana (USA) is currently suffering huge floods, displacing 20,000 + and and that several people have died? (‘Google’ it to see what is happening).

No. neither is the NZ MSM, yet they would be avidly slavering in their reports if a similar event occurred in (for example) India, Pakistan, Indonesia etc. etc. etc.

Yet because it’s the USA; absolute silence.

The New Zealand MSM is, of course, totally objective in its reporting…
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August 16, 2016 12:38pm
All_on_Red

‘Once again The New York Times has chosen to purposefully ignore facts and professional journalism to fit their political agenda, choosing to attack my character and reputation rather than present an honest report.

The simplest answer is the truth: I am a campaign professional. It is well known that I do work in the United States and have done work on overseas campaigns as well. I have never received a single “off-the-books cash payment” as falsely “reported” by The New York Times, nor have I ever done work for the governments of Ukraine or Russia. Further, all of the political payments directed to me were for my entire political team: campaign staff (local and international), polling and research, election integrity and television advertising. The suggestion that I accepted cash payments is unfounded, silly and nonsensical.

My work in Ukraine ceased following the country’s parliamentary elections in October 2014. In addition, as the article points out hesitantly, every government official interviewed states I have done nothing wrong, and there is no evidence of “cash payments” made to me by any official in Ukraine. However, the Times does fail to disclose the fact that the Clinton Foundation has taken (and may still take) payments in exchange for favors from Hillary Clinton while serving as Secretary of State. This is not discussed despite the overwhelming evidence in emails that Hillary Clinton attempted to cover up.’
Paul Manafort
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August 16, 2016 12:41pm
Griff

Komata
well aware
here is a good post on the flooding .
https://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/billiondollar-flood-has-louisiana-reeling-98l-may-become-a-tropical-

Floodwaters have finally crested across most of southern Louisiana after a harrowing weekend of record-high water that left at least six people dead, pushed at least 10,000 people into shelters, and prompted the rescues of more than 20,000 people. The federal government has declared the event a major disaster in four parishes: Tangipahoa, St. Helena, East Baton Rouge and Livingston. According to the insurance broker Aon Benfield, “The major flood and thunderstorm event that impacted parts of Louisiana, Texas, and Arkansas during March 2016 caused roughly USD1.5 billion in economic damage. It is currently anticipated that the August 2016 event will approach and possibly exceed this cost once all damage incurred to homes, businesses, public facilities, vehicles, infrastructure, and agriculture is taken into account.”
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August 16, 2016 12:55pm
BananaLlama

Okay Tomhunter. Right now the Trump campaign looks like a bucket of crabs what more can be said? I also think the Media has done a wonderful job of isolating and polarising Trump and he just seems oblivious to it as well. So much for 156 IQ.
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August 16, 2016 12:57pm
stephieboy

Fletch at 11.34am, those Benghazi families are chasing ghosts egged upon by litigious minded lawyers and Breitbart styled crude Propagandists ,

CHRIS STEVENS’S FAMILY: DON’T BLAME HILLARY CLINTON FOR BENGHAZI

Whom do you fault for the lack of security that resulted in the death of your brother, in Benghazi?

“44It is clear, in hindsight, that the facility was not sufficiently protected by the State Department and the Defense Department. But what was the underlying cause? Perhaps if Congress had provided a budget to increase security for all missions around the world, then some of the requests for more security in Libya would have been granted. Certainly the State Department is underbudgeted.

I do not blame Hillary Clinton or Leon Panetta. They were balancing security efforts at embassies and missions around the world. And their staffs were doing their best to provide what they could with the resources they had. The Benghazi Mission was understaffed. We know that now. But, again, Chris knew that. It wasn’t a secret to him. He decided to take the risk to go there. It is not something they did to him. It is something he took on himself…”

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/chris-stevenss-family-dont-blame-hillary-clinton-for-benghazi
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August 16, 2016 1:00pm
lilman

I see the Turks have lowered the age of consent from 15 to 12 bloody petaphiles.
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August 16, 2016 1:08pm
Scott

Well the age of consent is not an issue for Muslims. They prefer to follow the life style of Muhammad their founder whose last and most preferred wife was a 6 year old. Fortunately Muhammad did the decent thing and waited till she was 9 to consummate the marriage. They think if Muhammad can do it then they should be able to do it. Sadly that’s their logic.
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August 16, 2016 1:29pm
stephieboy

Scott,

Muhammad was more than likely following ancient Israeli and biblical practice where young girls were often betrothed at a very young age and their marriages consummated at 8-9

Bible: Child Marriage in Ancient Israelite times – Paedophilia?

4. Jacob Neusner is an American academic scholar of Judaism. In the Book: ‘The Comparative Hermeneutics of Rabbinic Judaism: Seder Tohorot. Tohorot through Uqsin.’ The Jewish oral Torah i.e. Mishnah states,

M. 5:4 A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And they are laible on her account because of the law [Prohibiting intercourse with] a married woman. And she imparts uncleanness to him who has intercourse with her [when she is menstruating] to convey uncleanness to the lower as to the upper layer. [If] she was married to a priest, she eats heave offering. [If] one of those who are unfit [for marriage] has intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into priesthood. [If] one of all those who are forbidden in the Torah to have intercourse with her, he is put to death on her account, but she is free of responsibility. [3]

https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/14/bible-child-marriage-in-ancient-israelite-times-paedophilia/
.
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August 16, 2016 1:40pm
Padriv Ustoev

Stephie is very correct once again. In the words of the Holly Qua-ran – paraphrased from Arabic – “If there is grass on the pitch, then she is play ball.”
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August 16, 2016 1:49pm

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