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July 3, 2016 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 3 July 2016

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Nostradamus

Nasska:

… there’s no mention in the ad whether they have shower or bath facilities …

Well, they mention that “hair dryer (on request)” is available, so I figured there’d at least be communal bath or shower facilities. I mean, seriously, anything has to be better than a home bath that’s subject to water restrictions!
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July 3, 2016 8:10pm
nasska

I’m not even certain that the standard shower or bath would be up to the challenge. As stigie notes it’s nine years since the rates have been paid & that’s a long time to be restricted to a litre per minute.

Dear God…..the smell! 🙂
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July 3, 2016 8:15pm
Chuck Bird

@calendar girl

Thanks very much for your kind comments. I just got home early after I was invited out for dinner. The lady concerned on seeing the news about the last atrocities by the camel jockey’s said it was the American’s fault. She then accused me of being anti women and any short people. She is not a midget be a littler over 5′ i had not taken any notice previously. I thanked her for the nice dinner and left. The last thing I need is an aggressive, illogical angry woman. She does not like us 10 percenters who have 50 or is it 60% of the wealth. It is somehow my fault that I have an ability to provide for myself in my retirement. I guess I am a dirty capitalist.
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July 3, 2016 8:15pm
Shawn Herles

Nostradamus,

“There’s a broader context to my question. People often post links on Kiwiblog to prove proposition X or disprove proposition y, but when all is said and done, how much of the proof is based on subjective opinion rather than objective fact?”

Well if we are talking about political debates, then all of it is subjective opinion. I post links to reinforce my arguments, but neither mine nor anyone else’s can prove anything in the absloute, objective sense.

Almost all of the debates here are people arguing for their subjective opinions, and those opinions will have a great deal more to do with a person’s overall worldview than objective facts.

Arguments like “my view is rational, you’rs is not” or “my view is based on objective fact, you’rs is not” are no different to Reid’s “you’re all sheeple” argument. They are not real arguments. In fact, they are ways to avoid having to make an argument.

Especially when politics is involved, EVERYTHING is subjective.

Some of us are just more honest about that than others. 🙂
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July 3, 2016 8:20pm
nasska

So no nookie Chuck? 🙂
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July 3, 2016 8:21pm
Reid

How do you critically assess the truth or otherwise of this story?

Simple Nosty, I never decide.

De-ciding on a matter is cutting yourself off from all other possibilities.

Nothing is true, and nothing is false.

And there’s never any need to de-cide if you’re confident in your ability to assess on the balance of probability that your current position on any given thing is probably the case.

Most people in fact use this method of cutting off from all other possibilities possibly as a matter of biology possibly because it’s how our brains work, I don’t know, but fact is, most people do that.

However, I float on the surface, because that improves my analysis, because it means that at any given time I can assimilate and re-assimilate and I don’t have the baggage of all the beliefs and values that give others their foundation and indeed their security.

My filter is prediction. Do my hypotheses pan out.

For example, I knew, through this technique, WMDs weren’t in Iraq, I knew, through this technique, Syria was a regime-change. And I knew this even before the first propaganda memes appeared.

There’s only one thing I don’t use this technique which is BTW based on analytical philisophy for, and that is my religious faith. For that requires a stance.
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July 3, 2016 8:22pm
calendar girl

You’ve had an interesting day, Chuck. Assaulted on almost every front! Have a good day tomorrow.
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July 3, 2016 8:23pm
Nostradamus

Chuck:

I just got home early after I was invited out for dinner. … She then accused me of being anti women and any short people. … I thanked her for the nice dinner and left.

Was this a Tinder date that went horribly wrong?
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July 3, 2016 8:36pm
stephieboy

Reid, we will await Sonnenfeld’s extradition for the murder of his wife to see what he has to say . That should give us a chance to see how your” Nothing is true, and nothing is false” idea works .

BTW what did he actually record at ground zero ?
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July 3, 2016 8:43pm
Shawn Herles

RichardX several times posted a list of Reid’s predictions, and the vast majority had been wrong. They had not hapenned as he claimed they would, or at all. His predictive method is in reality just him affirming his subjective worldview, which despite his claims to “floating above” things he does in fact have.

In fact knowing that, I can predict that on any issue with regards to Russia and the US Reid will always, without fail, take Russia’s side. That’s called having an opinion based on a worldview, not analytical prediction.

His (and Uglytruths) conspiracy theory regarding 911 is mere opinion based on an anti-American worldview. Facts or evidence have nothing at all to do with it.
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July 3, 2016 8:45pm
Chuck Bird

“Was this a Tinder date that went horribly wrong?”

NO
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July 3, 2016 8:48pm
Nostradamus

Stephieboy:

… we will await Sonnenfeld’s extradition …

In January 2015: Argentina agrees to extradite US man charged with wife’s murder [Supreme Court ruling]

But 10 months later: Argentine president overrides extradition of man charged in Denver murder

Chuck:

NO

Fair enough. I was just wondering how things unravelled so quickly over what was by all accounts a nice dinner.
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July 3, 2016 8:49pm
Captain Mainwaring

“Seen this Kiwibloggers?

Joined a few dots for me regarding the apparent Blairite campaign to remove Jeremy Corbett as Leader of the Labour Party?”
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Penny, you weapons-grade waste of oxygen:
Who the fuck is Jeremy Corbett?
Or are you getting seriously confused as your court date comes closer?
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July 3, 2016 8:57pm
stephieboy

Nostradamus, your right and this is the latest from Denver Post Journo Kirk Mitchell who is following the case and written a book about Kurt Sonnerfeld ,

Argentine president overrides extradition of man charged in Denver murder,

http://www.denverpost.com/2015/11/17/argentine-president-overrides-extradition-of-man-charged-in-denver-murder/

His book,

http://www.newhorizonpressbooks.com/new/spindoctor.php
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July 3, 2016 8:59pm
Shawn Herles

Ah, now there is another perfect example of what I am saying. Penny.

Penny has several times claimed that she is neither Left nor Right politically. Yet, without fail, she always supports far Left politicians or groups. Always. So there is clearly a disconnect between that claim and what she actually does.

All human beings are tribal by nature, and that includes political tribalism. Lets be honest about that, and do away with all this silly nonsense claiming neutrality, or objectivity, or reason, or floating above things.

In my opinion. 🙂

Goodnight folks.
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July 3, 2016 9:04pm
Nostradamus

Captain Mainwaring:

Who the fuck is Jeremy Corbett?

NZ Women’s Weekly (from a Google search I hasten to add) tells us the answer:

Writer and comedian Jeremy Corbett is busy changing baby daughter Billie’s nappy. The two are smiling and gurgling at each other – a picture of domestic bliss. “Oh, there you are,” says Jeremy, casually. “You know I had this all set up for your arrival. I’ve never changed a nappy in my life.”The host of hit satirical TV3 show 7 Days is, in fact, a very hands-on father to his two daughters – new baby Billie (4 months) and Charlie (2).

Now, for bonus points, can you connect some dots between Corbett and UK politics? Because I’m buggered if I can work out where Penny’s going with this one!
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July 3, 2016 9:04pm
nasska

She might be trying to build up some street cred for an insanity plea on Wednesday Nostra. 🙂
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July 3, 2016 9:21pm
lofty

An example of the relay of post I would like to put out there.

This is a post from the Sultan of Knish…..go seek.

I am tired of either mis reporting or non reporting by the MSM so I want to make sure that views get out there using the only vehicle we have, because the MSM will not do the job, and in fact want to muffle us.

“A Muslim terrorist stabbed four people at a train station near Munich while screaming, “Allahu Akbar”. In between proclaiming the glory of Allah, he also shouted that his victims were all “unbelievers”. A woman heard him say, “Infidel, you must die”.

The German authorities came to the inescapable conclusion that the attack had nothing to do with Islam. Instead the stabber had been “mentally ill” and was probably not even fit to stand trial. The Koran wasn’t to blame. It was the fault of his psychological problems.

This isn’t surprising. It’s a well known fact that there is no such thing as Islamic terrorism. Instead there are just a lot of people out there, of Muslim origin, suffering from a unique set of psychological problems that cause them to shout Allahu Akbar while trying to kill people who aren’t Muslims.

This should not however be attributed to the notoriously peaceful religion of peace.

Just last week the FBI busted James Muhammad who had been plotting to shoot up a Florida synagogue for the “glory of Allah”. Muhammad explained that he wanted to murder the men, women and children praying at the synagogue because, “I have a lot of love for Allah”.

Not only did this minor story receive only a fraction of the attention devoted to the truly important news that a Muslim teenage girl had Isis written in her High School yearbook, but Muhammad’s lawyer insisted at a bail hearing that he isn’t a terrorist, just suffering from mental problems.

Much like Ahmed Ferhani, who plotted to bomb a New York synagogue a few years ago to, in his own words, “send a message of intimidation and coercion to the Jewish population of New York City.” Ferhani however wasn’t just a racist terrorist, he’s also a cause célèbre for The Nation which five years later continues to advocate on behalf of an aspiring anti-Semitic mass murderer. The latest report from the left-wing magazine breathlessly informs readers that prison guards are being mean to poor Ahmed and that he never really meant to kill any Jews, but was entrapped due to his “psychiatric problems”.

Muhammad and Ferhani join Shahawar Matin Siraj who was convicted of plotting to bomb the Herald Square subway station in New York. Siraj was an illegal alien who worked at a Muslim bookstore and boasted, “I want at least 1,000 to 2,000 to die in one day.” His family and defenders claimed he had a low IQ. His co-defendant, James Elshafay, suffered from, you guessed it, psychological problems.

Matthew Aaron Llaneza converted to Islam and tried to blow up a bank in Oakland. His defenders blamed mental problems. Muslim ISIS supporter Emanuel Lutchman plotted a machete attack in Rochester last year. Despite his contacts with ISIS, the culprit once again was mental illness.

Sami Osmakac plotted to bomb Florida nightclubs. He recorded a “martyrdom” video issuing a call to “Muslims worldwide” to carry out terrorist attacks and avenge Osama bin Laden. He declared that the toenail of a sinning Muslim is worth more than all the non-Muslims in the world put together.

You’ll probably be surprised to hear that his lawyer blamed “mental illness” and claimed that his client had been “entrapped”. As has every Muslim terrorist ever for 1,400 years since Mohammed.

Mansour Arbabsiar was dispatched by Iran’s Revolutionary Guard to kill the Saudi ambassador in Washington. His defense claimed that he was bipolar. His lawyer insisted that the fact that he had confessed to everything proved that he was mentally ill because his illness, “led him to believe that he could convince the agents to see things his way”. Him and every other criminal out there.

Even when Muslim terrorists don’t claim mental illness, the media is happy to plead it for them.

When Nidal Malik Hasan murdered 13 Americans in the Fort Hood Massacre, Time and the New York Times suggested that he had somehow contracted PTSD from treating soldiers. In fact Hasan was a Muslim terrorist. No media outlet would stop claiming that he had PTSD long enough to read his letters in which he explained that he was a Jihadist, supported ISIS and killed American soldiers “for the greater cause of helping my Muslim brothers” and defending the “Islamic Empire”.

The defense for the surviving Tsarnaev terrorist who had carried out the Boston Marathon bombing went one better by blaming the “severe psychiatric disorders” of his parents. The Boston Globe, had interviewed psychologists to determine what possible “mental health conditions” he might have had.

Any mental condition will do when it comes to Muslim terrorists.

And the media never leaves any exculpatory stone unturned when it comes to finding a crazy excuse for a Muslim terrorist. The Los Angeles Times tried to find excuses for Syed Rizwan Farook, the San Bernardino Muslim killer, by claiming that he had grown up in a home “racked by mental illness”.

If a Muslim terrorist isn’t actually mentally ill, maybe one of his relatives was mentally ill. Or maybe, like Hasan, he once met someone who was mentally ill and got PTSD all over himself.

Internationally all Muslim terrorists are also mentally ill. Zehaf-Bibeau opened fire at the Canadian Parliament. Terror apologists claimed that he was mentally ill. In the UK, Muhaydin Mire tried to behead a man while shouting, “This is for Syria”. He had ISIS material on his phone and pictures of the Paris and San Bernardino shootings. His brother claimed that smoking pot had given him a “mental problem”. Sydney hostage taker Sheikh Man Haron Monis, who had become infamous for sending threats to the families of dead Australian soildiers, had his actions blamed on “mental instability.”

Michael Adebowale, one of the Jihadists who brutally beheaded British soldier Lee Rigby on a London street, also went the mental illness route.

In Russia, Muslim monster Gyulchekhra Bobokulova beheaded a 4-year-old girl and displayed her head in the street while shouting, “Allahu Akbar. I hate democracy. I am a terrorist. I want you dead.” Faced with these bafflingly inscrutable statements, the authorities blamed mental illness.

It was the safe thing to do. It always is.

Mental illness requires nothing of us except horror. Islamic terrorism demands that we do something about it. And that’s the last thing that the authorities who helped make this mess want.

German authorities, like their American, Russian, Europe and Australian counterparts, don’t want to take on Muslim immigration. It’s much easier to shove some more money at mental health clinics.

And what is mental illness anyway?

In the West, the conviction that you must kill people in order to receive 72 virgins in paradise would be considered a mental illness. In Islam, it’s a mainstream belief. 89% of Pakistanis believe in genies. But then again genies are present in Islamic scripture. 89% of Tunisians believe in witchcraft. 72% of Iraqis believe in the “evil eye”. 1 in 5 Afghanis have witnessed an exorcism. Half of Pakistanis believe in fairies.

Saudi religious police have a special Anti-Witchcraft Unit and there are actual witch trials. Majorities of Muslims don’t believe that Muslims carried out the 9/11 attacks. 40% of Pakistanis believe that fathers have a right to kill their daughters if they engage in premarital sex. Half of British Muslims think that the Jews are in league with the Freemasons. A third believes that Princess Diana was murdered to stop her from marrying a Muslim.

Ideas and behaviors associated with mental illness in the West are mainstream in parts of the Muslim world which exist in a pre-rational medieval universe brimming with conspiracy theories, paranoid delusions, lack of personal responsibility, erratic emotions and an inability to apply reason to reality.

Western psychiatric benchmarks don’t mean much in the Muslim world where witchcraft is a major problem, Jewish conspiracy theories abound and genies are responsible for psychiatric problems. Killing your daughter or just non-Muslims in general is socially approved behavior. The Muslim world has fundamentally different social norms than we do. And that means very different concepts of sanity.

Misattributing Muslim terrorism to madness is convenient, but meaningless. It’s a way for us to avoid dealing with the difficult questions posed by Islam. And that avoidance is also a form of insanity.”
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July 3, 2016 9:47pm
cha

The party of personal responsibility would make Bob Mugabe proud.
//

Landbankers could have property seized by the Government if the land is within certain areas marked for housing development.

[…]

“Yes, we are the National Party, but we have responded in a very pragmatic way to the challenges in Christchurch. And that has involved overcoming some of those pure views about property rights.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=11668057
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July 3, 2016 9:56pm
cha

An example of the relay of post I would like to put out there.

Oh good, a cut and paste repeater.
/
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July 3, 2016 10:05pm
Mike

“A man who served 15 years in an Australian prison for beating his pregnant girlfriend to death took just six months to reoffend after being deported to New Zealand.

Andrew Molo, 39, committed sexual violation by unlawful sexual connection shortly after returning to Auckland and has now been jailed for two years nine months.

However, Judge Russell Collins at Auckland District Court on Friday refused to increase that sentence for his violent history or impose a minimum period of imprisonment.”

Unbelievable.
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July 3, 2016 10:24pm
Manolo

A tricky and sneaky aging philanderer:
http://observer.com/2016/07/exclusive-security-source-details-bill-clinton-maneuver-to-meet-loretta-lynch/

The meeting has indeed turned into a political firestorm for the attorney general, with President Obama’s press secretary, Josh Earnest, declining to say whether the interaction between the powerful husband of a person being investigated and the attorney general was appropriate. In a sit-down with The Washington Post‘s Jonathan Capehart in Aspen, Colo., earlier this morning, the columnist grilled her about the meeting: “What on Earth were you thinking?” he asked her, in an otherwise very friendly interview.
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July 3, 2016 10:31pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@lofty9:47

1.
I’m using my cell phone to check out news and stuff when I’m out of the country. I am not going to spend ages reading through long posts. I’m not sure how many folks use cell phones to check up on Kb, but probably quite a few during the working week… So I would recommend short posts. If you have quite a few points to make, put them in separate posts.
2.
Lucia Maria makes some good points about keeping your identity safe. Once you take a position on any issue, you will attract the attention of at least one sad soul who will try to destroy your online credibility. Be prepared for misrepresentation and lies about you and your site.
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July 4, 2016 12:16am
Griff

Yip Maggie
Except sometimes someones on line reputation is destroyed by clearly pointing out the lies and misrepresentation.
EH.

According to my new analysis [PDF] of the papers published in Climate Research, there is a very clear gap in credibility during the years 1997-2003 when Chris de Freitas served as one of the journal’s editors. During this time, de Freitas oversaw the publication of 14 papers from notorious skeptics – half of them authored by fossil fuel industry pal Pat Michaels – many of which would not have survived rigorous and honest peer review at any other credible journal.

A few months ago, another journal’s editor resigned over a paper that should not have been accepted due to a poor peer review process. It reminded many of us of the more drastic case of Climate Research (CR), where several editors resigned in 2003 in the wake of a colossally poor paper by Willie Soon and Sallie Baliunas, accepted for publication by none other than Chris de Freitas.

It was certainly not the first de Freitas-endorsed paper to pass weak editorial processes at Climate Research, but when incoming Editor-in-Chief Hans von Storch suggested the paper should not have been published, he endeavored to fix editorial processes to prevent such problems. The publisher did not agree, so von Storch and other editors resigned.

At the time, climate scientists were rightly concerned that CR had become a magnet for poor science. When the hacked CRU emails appeared in 2009, climate skeptics tried to invert reality, claiming that several widely-published climate scientists had conspired to subvert peer review.

The skeptic echo chamber lauded Chris de Freitas as a noble martyr, a cry that has grown louder this month in the aftermath of the so-called “Climategate 2.0” illegal release of more of the CRU scientists’ emails.

This isn’t a novel experience when it comes to skeptic “science” efforts. Recall The Wegman Report for example, which attempted to criticize legitimate climate science for “bad” peer review, although it had no such peer critique itself. A follow-on article, which also had bypassed peer review, ultimately earned a retraction for plagiarism.

If there seems to be a pattern here, there is. Reality bites back, and it appears set to do so again now.

http://www.desmogblog.com/skeptics-prefer-pal-review-over-peer-review-chris-de-freitas-pat-michaels-and-their-pals-1997-2003
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July 4, 2016 7:42am

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