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July 16, 2016 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 16 July 2016

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General Debate

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Reid

the Paris attackers were Belgian

No, they were an Islamist terrorist cell based in Belgium. Big difference.
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July 16, 2016 11:08am
Rachael Membery

Well I wish that I had gone to Gallipoli last year. if I want to visit Islam, I will go to it, not!!! Don’t bring it to me.
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July 16, 2016 11:09am
Reid

US based Fethullah Gulen is being blamed for the coup in Turkey by the previous dickhead president

Yes I told you that before. I also told you that the leader of the Gulen’s is based in the US. 2+2=?
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July 16, 2016 11:09am
tom hunter

The HotAir blog thread updates continue to provide good info…

… a senior US military source says Erdogan was refused landing rights in Istanbul and may be seeking to land in Germany.

followed by…

MSNBC: Germany denied permission to land…

Chortle. With FaceTime and airborne WiFi, Erdogan’s plane is like a smaller, sadder version of Looking Glass.
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July 16, 2016 11:10am
Ross12

Shawn

” French interior minister refuses to confirm that Nice killer was a jihadi, says his motives aren’t yet established..”

The Telegraph (UK) are saying the driver was upset because his wife had just left him and that is what triggered the violence. How pathetic can the MSM get ? ( and I actually rate the Telegraph most of the time !)
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July 16, 2016 11:10am
Dave Mann

I think there is hope now for Turkey. Although there is a large minority who support traditional Islam and follow the religion to the letter (these being the people behind Erdogan), the majority seem to want the basic western freedoms to get on with their lives and they’re not afraid to voice this.

When I was traveling in Turkey I took a city tour in Istanbul. We passed a compound with a gigantic flag flying and when asked what the compound housed, the tour guide himself repeated the question on the loudspeaker and gave the answer (I paraphrase) “That’s the HQ army base. Its what prevents our country from ending up like Saudi Arabia and it protects the freedom of women to walk around Sulanahmet wearing normal clothes and drive cars. The values that you (Europeans and Americans etc) all take for granted.”

Yes. If the Turkish army is successful in this coup I think there is hope for Turkey.
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July 16, 2016 11:10am
Reid

Ha:

It was also nice of them to wait until all the western financial markets were closed for the weekend. And, for those who are keeping track, that’s not a new tactic.

http://thesaker.is/breaking-news-military-coup-in-progress-in-turkey-open-thread/
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July 16, 2016 11:14am
nasska

It seems that the only time “Nanny State” isn’t wrapping us in cotton wool to protect us from ourselves is when they are importing potential Islamic murderers.

This voter would be overjoyed to accept a marginally higher risk on our roads, occasional sunburn & an absence of alcohol/tobacco propaganda. It would give authorities plenty of spare time to keep us completely free from religious nuts who want to kill us!
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July 16, 2016 11:15am
tom hunter

Chuckle

Update: At 7 p.m. ET, the word is that Erdogan wants asylum in Britain.

Perhaps Boris will be at the airport to greet him – complete with his winning poem…

“There was a young fellow from Ankara,
Who was a terrific wankerer.
Till he sowed his wild oats,
With the help of a goat,
But he didn’t even stop to thankera.”
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July 16, 2016 11:16am
dime

Middle easterners are low iq. God knows why you’d want to import low iq people into your country.
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July 16, 2016 11:17am
Southern Raider

Dave Mann I completely agree. I was there 10 years ago and it was one of the best countries in the world to visit. There was only one small city we went through which was ultra religious.

If you talk to Turks in NZ they all hate what Erodogan has done to their country
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July 16, 2016 11:21am
Fletch

So, it turns out that a Saudi-funded mosque opened in Nice just two weeks before the attack. The mayor of the town had tried for years to stop it being built, even going to court, but no good. It is run by a fundamentalist, extremeist sect.

An Islamic Mosque, funded and owned by a hardline, “fundamentalist” Saudi Arabian cleric, opened in the Nice just two weeks before the Southern French city was struck by a deadly terror attack.

Town Mayor Christian Estrosi had fought a bitter legal battle with the French state in an attempt to stop it opening, claiming the owner, Saudi Minister of Islamic Affairs Sheikh Saleh bin Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh (pictured left) “advocates Sharia law and destroyed all the churches on the Arabian Peninsula.”

“Our intelligence agencies are worried about this place of worship,” the mayor said, before warned about “unregulated foreign funding,” according to French news site RTL.

Mr. Estrosi, mayor since 2008, argued that the project, which was initiated under his predecessor in 2002, was unauthorised. He took central government representative Prefect Adolphe Colrat to court but did not succeed.

Mr. Colrat accused Mr. Estrosi, who is a member of France’s centre-right The Republicans Party, of “feeding populism” and scapegoating the entire Muslim community to gain votes, AFP reported.

The Mosque, in an office district of Nice – AFP

The mosque opened at the beginning of this month, and was described as “a real joy” by Ouassini Mebarek, a lawyer and head of a local religious association.

“But there is no smug triumphalism,” he told AFP. “This is recognition of the law, and a right to freely practise one’s religion in France in accordance with the values of French Republic”.

Cleric Saleh bin Abdul-Aziz Al ash-Sheikh is perceived to be a strict adherent of Wahhabism – the dominant strain of Islam in Saudi Arabi and the state religion – which has been described, variously, as “ultraconservative”, “austere”, “fundamentalist” and even “extremist”.

The revivalist movement is closely related to the Salafism practices by Islamic State (IS) terrorists, with the two terms – Salafi and Wahhabi – often considered synonymous and interchangeable.

Last night, at least 84 people died in the city, including children, after a lorry slammed through a crowd celebrating Bastille Day, France’s national day.

Identification papers found in the truck point to a 31-year-old Nice resident that held duel French and Tunisian citizenship. French President François Hollande declared it an “undeniable” terrorist attack.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07/15/saudi-funded-mosque-opened-nice-two-weeks-attack/
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July 16, 2016 11:21am
Stars And Stripes

kowtow (13,174 comments) says:

July 16th, 2016 at 11:01 am

“This is a European problem”

Yes you are right there but all I will say is many of them take inspiration from ISIS and it’s propaganda so seems like an easy starting point to me.
Can’t make an omelette without cracking a few eggs as they say.
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July 16, 2016 11:24am
stephieboy

Reid ,

“I love conspiracy theories. I used to just live on it. You know it’s all hype and garbage, but you’re still really paranoid afterwards. It’s fun entertainment. ”

Doug Stanhope

Fletch , before the real facts, emerge let’s add Breitbart and you !
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July 16, 2016 11:24am
Reid

So, it turns out that a Saudi-funded mosque opened in Nice just two weeks before the attack.

Careful Fletch, sooner or later one or two sheeple might notice that Saudi Wahhabism looks a hell of a lot like the brand ISIS practices, then the whole shebang unravels. Can’t have that now, can we.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
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July 16, 2016 11:27am
kowtow

“It is run by a fundamentalist, extremeist sect.”

Now now fletch, you’re meant to be embracing multiculturalism and enjoying the diversity dividend.

It’s what our masters in the media, political and academic world command.

And if you don’t like that you’re close to being a criminal engaged in “hate crime” ,whatever that is.

Aren’t “progessive” policies just wonderful?
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July 16, 2016 11:27am
Simon

Are there any Moslem countries which aren’t festering sores?
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July 16, 2016 11:29am
kowtow

stars and stripes

They take their inspiration from the life of Mohammed and the Koran. Always have , always will. It’s just the method that changes.

“The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic.”

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
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July 16, 2016 11:31am
Fletch

oops, sorry Shawn, didn’t see your post – bit of a double-up there….
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July 16, 2016 11:33am
Shawn Herles

EXCLUSIVE: Iran conducts 4th missile test since signing nuke deal

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/15/exclusive-iran-conducts-4th-missile-test-since-signing-nuke-deal.html

Obama: “But those nice Iranian Muslims promised me they would be peaceful.”

Idiot.
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July 16, 2016 11:34am
vand

Where does the Islamic violence come from? possible clues follow
The violent spirit behind Islam

Bukhari 1:3 and the Sirat at p 106

Mohammad was crushed like death by the spirit
After the encounter Mohammad said “woe is me” – poet or possessed, He was fearful, thought he was possessed by a demon and was suicidal.

Mohammad himself inflicted by the violent spirit
Examples:
P242 Sirat – Apostle ordered Umar to kill Mu’adh b. Afra (who had killed Suwayd) but he escaped

P308 – Mohammad ordered Uqba, an unbelieving prisoner to be killed – this man said to Mohammad: Who will look after my children? Mohammad replied”Hell”.

P367/8:Sirat Mohammad said who will rid me of Ibnu’l Ashraf (a poet)? Mohammad b. Maslana offered to. After 3 days he asked Mohammad if he could tell lies to enable him to murder Ashraf, and Mohammad agreed. Mohammad went with them as far as Baqiu’l Gharqad and then told them to go in God’s name and God help them. This murder was said to have cast terror among the Jews. (See also Bukhari Vol 5 Bk 59 No.369)

Sahih Muslim 2127)Mohammad hits Aisha -one of his wives- causing her pain

The violent spirit inflicted by Mohammad’s followers
Examples
P367/368 Sirat as above

P 369 Sirat : Mohammad said to kill any Jew who falls within your power. Muhayyisa kills Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant. Muhayyisa said if Mohammad had told him to kill his elder brother (Hurayyisa) he would have done so. The elder brother converted to Islam as he thought that a religion that can bring you to do that is marvellous.

P304 Sirat Ibn Mas’ud cuts off head of Mohammad’s enemy, Abu Jahl, and throws it before Mohammad -who gives thanks to Allah

Sahih Muslim 3506:Mohammad watches Abu Bakr slapping Aisha -one of Mohammad’s own wives

Sahih Muslim 3506: Mohammad watches Abu Bakr slapping Hafsa- one of Mohammad’s own wives

P 496 Sirat -Ali violently beats a slave girl in front of Mohammad
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July 16, 2016 11:38am
Shawn Herles

NYT/CBS Poll: Hillary’s Untrustworthy Rating Soars to 67 Percent

“As we await the official rollout of Donald Trump’s Vice Presidential pick (postponed by the terrorist attack in Nice, France), let’s take a gander at two new national polls — one of which Leah hit yesterday. A New York Times/CBS News survey confirms a trend we’ve been covering all week: As Americans digest the spectacle of Hillary Clinton’s email scandal claims getting dismantled by the FBI, her support has dropped noticeably. Over the course of four months, Clinton’s standing has fallen from a ten-point lead to an exact tie, with Trump’s level of support barely budging”

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/07/15/nytcbs-poll-hillarys-untrustworthy-rating-soars-to-67-percent-n2192807?utm_content=buffer55b1f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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July 16, 2016 11:43am
holysheet

Shawn let these Iranian nutters get their missiles. All they need do is fire one at Israel. The retaliation would be so swift that the major problem of terrorist support would be gone along with most of these mussie nutters. Bring it on, I say
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July 16, 2016 11:43am
Kimbo

@ Dave Mann

I think there is hope now for Turkey. Although there is a large minority who support traditional Islam and follow the religion to the letter (these being the people behind Erdogan), the majority seem to want the basic western freedoms to get on with their lives and they’re not afraid to voice this.

When I was traveling in Turkey I took a city tour in Istanbul. We passed a compound with a gigantic flag flying and when asked what the compound housed, the tour guide himself repeated the question on the loudspeaker and gave the answer (I paraphrase) “That’s the HQ army base. Its what prevents our country from ending up like Saudi Arabia and it protects the freedom of women to walk around Sulanahmet wearing normal clothes and drive cars. The values that you (Europeans and Americans etc) all take for granted.”

Yes. If the Turkish army is successful in this coup I think there is hope for Turkey.

Quite right. Ironically I mentioned to David Garrett yesterday, in response to his question on the 60 dead in Nice thread (July 15th, 2016 at 4:23 pm)

But let’s fantasise, and say there arose a “New Islam”…How’s that going to go down with the “kill the infidel wherever you find him” brigade? Who is going to enforce the new doctrine? How?

…that Turkey, despite all its imperfections (what country doesn’t have them?) is the model to which we should be looking, hoping and assisting. So are we now in a position to confirm this coup was inspired by a perceived need to reassert Turkey’s secular/moderate Islamic constitution (in response to kowtow’s posts above, the two are kinda the same in that neck of the woods, just as, say, Tonga isn’t truly secular) and push back the slow creep of Islamisation?

Also, no matter what the right way is to respond to this latest wave of terrorist acts, bear in mind provoking a blanket crack-down and reprisals against the Muslim populations in the West and causing wholesale radicalisation and conflict is part of the ISIS apocalyptic game plan.

In reality, and as you point out, Islamic Republics that adopt sharia wholesale are repressive places, imposed and enforced by fanatics, and/or supported by cultural ignorance and pressure. You know how effective they are by how quickly the locals hit the drinks cabinet as soon as the air plane takes off the ground! Most of the population soon tires of the more extreme measures – although issues of religious and sexual fidelity are still a concern – as they are in conservative Christian countries such as, again, Tonga. Or as with some Kiwbloggers who insist our “Christian heritage” is the solution to all our current woes.
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July 16, 2016 11:49am
dime

Stephie quoting Stanhope? Give me strength
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July 16, 2016 11:51am
stephieboy

kimbo , thank you for that timely piece of sanity . This is worth repeating ,

“Also, no matter what the right way is to respond to this latest wave of terrorist acts, bear in mind provoking a blanket crack-down and reprisals against the Muslim populations in the West is part of the ISIS apocalyptic game plan.”

Breitbart , Jihad Watch , frontpage , Trump and fellow Islamaphobes here on KB are obliging very successfully as they gullibly play into ISIS’s end game.
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July 16, 2016 11:54am
SGA

Kimbo at 11:49 am

Also, no matter what the right way is to respond to this latest wave of terrorist acts, bear in mind provoking a blanket crack-down and reprisals against the Muslim populations in the West and causing wholesale radicalisation and conflict is part of the ISIS apocalyptic game plan.

Surely you jest. And abandon notions of an outright ban on Islam and/or a Genghis Khan-like slaughter? Wimp 🙂
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July 16, 2016 11:57am
DifferentPerspective

Simon (1,591 comments) says:
July 16th, 2016 at 11:29 am
Are there any Moslem countries which aren’t festering sores?

What an appallingly Islamophobic thing to say, of course there are tolerant, honest, happy, balanced, lawful Muslim societies what about:
– Saudia Arabia – oh wait, not them there's this
– Iraq- the cradle of civilsation – oh wait there’s this
– Malaysia – away from the dirty arabs, must be better – ooops there’s this
– Somalia – not mid-east and not SE Asia – gotta be better eh? Ooops – I guess not

Ok so wherever there’s muslims you have horrific violence and human rights abuses – that doesn’t mean to say Islam is bad though! That’s just Islamophobic to think that just because every single country where there are more than a few % of muslims in the population horrific violence erupts – isn’t it?

Not all muslims are bad because they fail to report to authorities when a loved one has gone mental and will commit mass murder. Not all muslims are bad just because a wife will drive her husband to a mass execution of gays in a nightclub. These are all just sweeping generalisations. Islam IS THE RELIGION OF ~~rape, homophobia, mass murder, infanticide, human rights abuses, sexism, violence, terrorism~~ PEACE FFS.

It must be – I read it on Twitter!
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July 16, 2016 12:03pm
Kimbo

…and even though I’ve posted this before, I think it explains well how radicalisation of those in moderate Muslim and non-Muslim (including Western) nations occurs – and what part of the push back should be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IchGuL501U

Again, it is not a perfect analogy, but Muslim radicals are like the Jehovah’s Witnesses who use many of the same methods as they are also an apocalyptic “we have the ultimate truth” group of parasites who pick off straggling sheep from the larger religious mainstream flock. They know their message and how to overcome all the intellectual objections, and the average nominal ill-informed or relatively ignorant believer who has just enough knowledge for it to be dangerous is no match for their narrative. I hasten to affirm the point that JW’s don’t go around killing people (although they are prepared to let their kids die for want of a blood transfusion), and there is no reason to outlaw them. Nonetheless, their love-bombing and propaganda hits the same targets and succeeds for the same reasons that Muslims are radicalised.
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July 16, 2016 12:03pm
Shawn Herles

ON THE MUSLIM TERROR ATTACK IN NICE

Jack Bucky’s (Liberty Great Britian) angry and impassioned response to the Muslim terrorist atrocity in Nice and the Leftist idiocy that makes such attacks possible. Stand up for the West and stop making excuses for evil.

https://alternative-right.blogspot.co.nz/2016/07/jack-buckby-on-muslim-terror-attack-in.html
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July 16, 2016 12:05pm
stephieboy

DifferentPerspective , either untrue or a gross oversimplification to feed your hungry sore and festering dwarf mind .

The listed countries nuke them all ?

Shawn Herles ,jack Bucky another one who believes in ISIS recruitment drive ?
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July 16, 2016 12:08pm
stephieboy

SGA , wimp ? Speak for yourself .

“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. ”

H. L. Mencken
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July 16, 2016 12:12pm
SGA

stephieboy at 12:12 pm

Speak for yourself .

I do, stephieboy, I do. I certainly wouldn’t trust you to do it for me.
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July 16, 2016 12:14pm
Shawn Herles

Raymond Ibrahim on the West’s false notions of “radicalized” and “moderate” Muslims.

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/05/raymond-ibrahim-radical-vs-moderate-islam-a-muslim-view

Former Muslims Exposing the Myth of Moderate Islam

“Every “moderate” Muslim is a potential terrorist. The belief in Islam is like a tank of gasoline. It looks innocuous, until it meets the fire. For a “moderate” Muslim to become a murderous jihadist, all it takes is a spark of faith.

It is time to put an end to the charade of “moderate Islam.” There is no such thing as moderate Muslim. Muslims are either jihadists or dormant jihadists – moderate, they are not.”

http://formermuslimsunited.org/exposing-the-myth-of-moderate-islam/
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July 16, 2016 12:17pm
Shawn Herles

Iraqi priest: “There’s no such thing as moderate Islam…ISIS represents Islam one hundred percent”

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/08/iraqi-priest-theres-no-such-thing-as-moderate-islam-isis-represents-islam-one-hundred-percent
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July 16, 2016 12:21pm
Dave Mann

Oh shit…. it now looks like the Turkish coup has failed. Bugger….
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July 16, 2016 12:24pm
wf

I wonder how kiwis would react if someone drove a truck through a crowd of 7’s fans as they left the Cake Tin on a fine Wellington evening?

It’s time for NZ to place a mark in the sand, and say No Further. We will defend our society with words and law, before we need to resort to violence.
How about that?
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July 16, 2016 12:38pm
stephieboy

Shawn Herles , Raymond Ibrahim’s might claim to be a leading researcher on Islam and Arabic but an even much better propagandist . For example the claim about two Egyptian girls abducted and forced to convert to Islam is an unsourced fabrication ,

http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/06/frontpage-muslim-bashing-authority-can’t-do-a-two-second-google-search/

Obviously like you and frontapge Ibrahim wants to fan the flames of polarisation ,intolernce and hate to ensure an international holy crusade / war against all Muslims

and another front-page Ibrahim front-page fabrication,

http://www.snopes.com/obama-changes-oath-of-allegiance/
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July 16, 2016 12:51pm
Southern Raider

Dave Mann it’s hard to say what is happening. Western media has no real update and AlJazeera seems to be the only one saying that and that’s based on a quote from the PM who is hardly trust worthy
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July 16, 2016 12:53pm
stephieboy

As of 15 minutes ago ,

“Turkish army group announces takeover on TV”

“An army group in Turkey says it has taken over the country, with soldiers at strategic points in Istanbul and jets flying low in the capital, Ankara.

A statement read on TV said a “peace council” now ran the country and there was a curfew and martial law.

But PM Binali Yildirim said the situation was largely under control and a no-fly zone was declared over Ankara.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said he would overcome what he called an uprising by a minority.

In the last few minutes, Mr Erdogan’s plane has landed at Istanbul airport, government sources say.

Earlier, there were reports of explosions at parliament building in Ankara…. “

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36809083

Sothern Raider , what would you like the Western Media to say ?
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July 16, 2016 1:00pm
Peter

“Also, no matter what the right way is to respond to this latest wave of terrorist acts, bear in mind provoking a blanket crack-down and reprisals against the Muslim populations in the West and causing wholesale radicalisation and conflict is part of the ISIS apocalyptic game plan.”

Radical Islam’s “game plan” is to fight until they win. And with so many apologists, their battle is easy. Look how they’ve rolled their trojan horse into Europe, and look how many of the “progressives” pretend it isn’t there.

There is only one way to eradicate radical Islam. Yes, there will be struggles, but it’s a bit late to hope for a peaceful end now. Sadly.
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July 16, 2016 1:10pm
stephieboy

Peter , OK give us your actual game plan apart from banning all Islam ?

Nuking them all ?
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July 16, 2016 1:14pm
Manolo

Ir seems the Islamic dictador Erdogan has survived the coup. What a missed opportunity to get rid of the bastard.
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July 16, 2016 1:21pm
pentwig

kowtow (13,176 comments) says:
July 16th, 2016 at 10:08 am
KBers

Could I echo Tom Hunter and DGs comments ……ignore the troll , don’t tick in either direction.

That’s bloody hard. The troll is a fruit loop. Every time I read one of its inane comments I just want to punch it. Just to knock some sense into the retarded brain understand.

A down tick half relieves the frustration.

You are excelling yourself today daffy.
Keep it up.
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July 16, 2016 1:27pm
Southern Raider

So Stephie thinks the BBC is a reliable news source. The BBC is currently running a story about the “quiet loner in Nice”
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July 16, 2016 1:32pm
Benoni

I wonder if DPF still thinks Hillary is an easy winner of the USA elections. We have to count on at least another 2 Islamic atrocities before the election and each one is a nail in the coffin of the Democrat’s presidential hopes. Scott Adams called it…a landslide to Trump.
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July 16, 2016 1:33pm
Manolo

Our resident Islamist will rejoice:
http://news.sky.com/story/turkish-military-says-it-has-taken-over-country-10503039

President Erdogan calls on people to take to the streets as soldiers storm the state TV studios to declare they’ve seized power.
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July 16, 2016 1:39pm
NK

From everything I’ve seen and read thus far, the murderer in Nice was a loner. I wouldn’t call him quiet, as he sounds quite mad. But friends and family and neighbours say he’s not religious.
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July 16, 2016 1:39pm
Manolo

DPF is a Johnson (who???) supporter. I also believe sand will cover Antarctica soon. Hillary is his second choice.
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July 16, 2016 1:41pm
kowtow

NK

Quite right.

That accounts for the Allah Akbar.

And his being a loner will be of great consolation to the families of the 84.
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July 16, 2016 1:43pm
Johnboy

Turkey was only ever good when it was run by it’s military. Just like Fiji! 🙂
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July 16, 2016 1:45pm
vand

Not religious eh ? Allah told Mohammad war is a means for Allah to reverse humiliation and weakness- perhaps we should blame Allah for the atrocities
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July 16, 2016 1:48pm
Johnboy

“Nuking them all ?”

I like the way you’re finally thinking stephie. 🙂
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July 16, 2016 1:51pm
NK

kowtow – very true, it won’t matter to the victims. But it should matter to policy makers and politicians.
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July 16, 2016 1:54pm
Kimbo

@ Peter

There is only one way to eradicate radical Islam and that is to treat radical Islam the same way we do Nazism, and for the same reason.

Almost right. I think the Cold War against Eastern Bloc and Maoist Communism is a better analogy – although they were just as evil as Nazism.

Look to isolate and contain the spread of the contagion, subvert insurrections on the fringes and if that is not possible, most definitely fight radicalism before it becomes established, wage and look to win the continual propaganda and intelligence/security war abroad and also against the enemies and useful idiots at home – including co-opting moderate Muslims, exercise eternal vigilance including against the McCarthyites who in their haste to pull out tares will also root out good grain, and where opportunity arises use triangulation and the exploiting of local rivalries to keep them weak, practice detente when it is in your immediate and overall interests, and look at ways freedom and democracy can be fostered where it does not exist. Terrorists may be using the internet to spread their message, but it works both ways. Totalitarian regimes, including Islamic ones are inherently weak.

For all the hand-wringing over the American intervention in Iraq, nonetheless it sent a very clear message to the dictators of the Middle East, as had also the overthrow of the Teleban in Afghanistan in 2001, that the West will not tolerate the supporting of Islamic terror by any regime.

Oh, yes, and start taking some lessons from the Israelis on how to balance democratic secular freedoms, a large Muslim population and national and regional security needs, and practicing the use of a tin ear to critics.
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July 16, 2016 1:56pm
Johnboy

“overthrow of the Teleban in Afghanistan”

If only our government had moved so decisively to overthrow the Telecom here at the same time! 🙂
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July 16, 2016 1:59pm
DifferentPerspective

stephieboy (12,566 comments) says:
July 16th, 2016 at 12:08 pm
DifferentPerspective , either untrue or a gross oversimplification to feed your hungry sore and festering dwarf mind .

The listed countries nuke them all ?

Shawn Herles ,jack Bucky another one who believes in ISIS recruitment drive ?

Lol – I pity you, I really do. Is that really your best effort – the most logical, evidence-based retort to refute an argument you can come up with? Name-calling? It leaves very little doubt at all about who is the real intellectual minnow in this debate!

Seriously, everytime you look in the mirror you see why National are in power. The ordinary, decent people of NZ don’t want to be governed by people that think the best way to convince people of the validity of their viewpoint is to insult them.

To put it into terms you might understand, let me paraphrase Jerry Maguire.

“You … complete …. National!!!!”
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July 16, 2016 2:00pm
Brigitte

Can anyone help. I’m having trouble working out who’s behind the Turkish coup attempt. As I see it, it is one or more of….

Vladimir Putin
the French (revenge from Nice for them letting terrorists into Europe)
a lone wolf (er lone military)
the illuminati
Erdogan himself (to grab more power under the emergency)
Islamist extremists
John Key
the missing million
Boris Johnson (by sending in tankerers)
Bashir Al-Assad
the Iranians
Barak Obama (revenge for recent Russia pivot)
over enthusiastic Pokemon-Go players
no-one, it’s another false flag event

…but which one is it. Or have I missed the true party behind it all….
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July 16, 2016 2:11pm
SPC

Brigitte, whatever it is, it will soon like a Trojan horse, whereby a rebel faction gets incited to act (like a police agent who incites an action by protestors that police are waiting to arrest them for) – then Erdogan gets to purge the army of its secular character and turn it into his party’s armed wing – entrench the party in government. That is do to the institutions what has been done to the media.

There is form, after an election in which they failed to get a majority, there was a series of security emergencies created to enable a better result under a new election – and the capacity to simply remove opposition parliamentarians was enacted to reinforce that.
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July 16, 2016 2:17pm
Reid

Yeah Brigitte, you have.

Clue is in the domicile of the coup leader, which is the US.
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July 16, 2016 2:17pm
Johnboy

What a damned fool you are Brigitte. Can you not see that its Tama Iti and the Tuhoe seeking to extend face painting to the Asian mainland as a first step in regaining their original ancestral lands ffs! 🙂
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July 16, 2016 2:19pm
David Garrett

HK: Not religious? Why then was he yelling “allahu akbar”??

Some sort of frustrated poet, perhaps?

Sorry, I don’t buy that…every terrorist who utters that phrase before or during his act of terrorism is an Islamic Terrorist in my book…
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July 16, 2016 2:22pm
SPC

In London Boris Johnson the UK Foreign Secretary said there is a goat at the gate, what it is up to, whether coming or going, no one can yet say. He mentioned his own Turkish ancestors and asked his rellies not to embarrass him, like Hillary Rodham Clinton’s brother in law bubba did to the 43rd President.
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July 16, 2016 2:25pm
Reid

HK: Not religious? Why then was he yelling “allahu akbar”??

Yes but was he? I don’t know or not, but normally when the MSM says something happened in a certain way, you can bet it didn’t.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRi2ZSXyWs0&feature=youtu.be

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/richard-gutjahr-journalist-filmte-den-anschlag-von-nizza-a-1103106.html
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July 16, 2016 2:33pm
Johnboy

If Boris needs someone to put the fear of Christ up a goat SPC just tell him to contact Johnboy! 🙂
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July 16, 2016 2:38pm
Brigitte

None of the French newspapers refer to the Nice attacker uttering anything, let alone ‘allahu akbar’.

In fact it appears that he really is a lone wolf nutter that has gone mental. From Le Point, according to neighbours when he separated from his wife he “defecated everywhere, killed his daughters teddybear by stabbing, and lacerated the mattress”.

He’s also known to drink a lot and take drugs. So in all, a right lovely piece of work.
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July 16, 2016 3:00pm
Johnboy

True Islamic chaps never drink that dreadful piss Brigette!

Thank goodness I never let the wife’s rantings about my alcoholism stop me or I too could have become a jihadist! 🙂
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July 16, 2016 3:06pm
Reid

He’s also known to drink a lot and take drugs. So in all, a right lovely piece of work.

So he fits right in with the profile of the 911 hijackers, doesn’t he.
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July 16, 2016 3:11pm
nasska

….”he “defecated everywhere, killed his daughters teddybear by stabbing, and lacerated the mattress”.”….

You haven’t met a lot of religious people have you?
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July 16, 2016 3:11pm
Reid

As an attempted military coup unfolds in Turkey, a statement from President Obama urged all sides to support the democratically elected government of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Lt. Col. Ralph Peters told The O’Reilly Factor that Obama “should have just kept his mouth shut, because the people staging this coup are on our side.”

“They’re against the Islamists, fundamentalists and extremists. They’re for democracy. They’re for a secular constitution.”

Peters said that President Obama “romanticizes Islam.”

Of course he does, he’s a big fan of the Muslim Brotherhood, everyone knows that.

Don’t you.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/07/15/peters-says-obama-chose-wrong-side-turkey-coup
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July 16, 2016 3:14pm
Reid

killed his daughters teddybear by stabbing

Maybe he had to. Maybe it was walking towards him, with shining piercing eyes and swearing a lot, telling Chuckie to wake the fuck up and get out of the toy chest and come help him…

That really happened once you know, they even made a movie out of it and they only do that when its about real stuff. Otherwise how would they know how to end it?
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July 16, 2016 3:16pm
NK

I could run down the street shouting Allahu Akbar or Jesus is Beautiful or any other saying but that isn’t proof of anything, except that I yelled Allahu Akbar or Jesus is Beautiful.
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July 16, 2016 3:23pm
Reid

Erdogan himself is saying Fethullah Gulen and his followers are behind the coup. Fethullah Gulen resides in the US.

Former CIA Director James Woolsey was just on Fox News Megan Kelly show saying it is possible this is a false flag – that Erdogan staged a fake coup so he could crack down on dissidents and gain more power. He is speculating that it was a very weak coup attempt, which makes him think it wasn’t serious. This would be a good way to purge the military to retain only loyalists…

The military coup has obvious geopolitical implications. It comes after a sharp reversal in the direction of the relations of Turkey and Russia and changes on the Syrian issue made by the country’s leaders . On last eve Binali Yildirim said that Turkey intends to restore relations with official Damascus. In essence, this would mean a radical change of the whole geopolitical situation on the Syrian issue and the collapse of the US strategy in the region. Before that Erdogan removed Ahmet Davutoglu from the country’s leadership. US realized that Erdogan decided to change the geopolitical course. United States decided to act and use their networks of influence in military circles, to initiate a coup.

We should expect reprisals against both the opposition, in favor of strengthening ties with Russia and Syria, as well as functionaries of the ruling party “Justice and Development”. The pro-Russian course will be frozen.

Yes. That’s rather bad news for the Khazarian Mafia aka murderous bastard neocons, isn’t it.

No more murderous thuggery from their ISIS mates in Syria once Turkey gives the US the fingers, no more NATO, no more EU application, all Turkish eyes turn East, toward Russia.

What a shame.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

If Russia really did orchestrate this, what brilliance. And it doesn’t look like the US was behind it, because it folded so quickly. But it was one of them, that’s for sure.

Grandmaster Putin with brilliant elegance vs neocon thuggery that destroys everything it touches and leaves death and destruction everywhere, what a contrast eh.
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July 16, 2016 3:25pm
NK

Brigitte, you clearly don’t get it, do you.

He was a migrant.

He killed people.

Therefore he’s a Muslim radical terrorist nutjob.

Please try and join the dots. Even though they’re spread miles apart.
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July 16, 2016 3:26pm
Reid

Meanwhile, at State, on the question of “the moderate rebels” who “aren’t terrorists” and therefore to which the US can give air support, weapons, logistics, medical and transportation, this happened:

After US Secretary of State, John Kerry, “muddied the waters” of the US terrorism support policies in Syria on June 28th in Aspen, Colorado, it seems US State Department spokesperson, Mark Toner, was feeling left out of the farcical parallel dimension inhabited by the US foreign policy oligarchy.

In this extraordinary US State Department press briefing, Toner gives one of his most convoluted and mind bending explanations for the US refusal to designate Ahrar al Sham a terrorist organisation despite their involvement in the ethnic cleansing of Syrian minorities and affiliation to Al Nusra [Syrian Al Qaeda] and Jaish al Islam.

And the sheeple, naturally, continue bleating and baaing in their green, green fields of delusion, while civilians are murdered and cities and countries are destroyed, by “the moderates,” using US weapons.

Aren’t sheeple just the biggest dumbfucks in the entire known universe?

Why yes Timmy, they certainly are…

http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/07/14/syria-propaganda-shambles-the-us-state-department-moderate-rebel-comedy-routine/
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July 16, 2016 3:47pm
Reid

Ah right.

So while the world’s been pre-occupied with Nice and Anakara, the missing 28 pages from the 911 report were also released on Friday.

https://www.rt.com/usa/351327-congress-releases-pages-saudi/

How convenient.
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July 16, 2016 4:01pm
simpleton1

Just a non-attacking, peaceful barber?; perhaps looking to do a “Presidential shave” in Nice, France?.
Yet they arrest him !.

https://www.google.co.nz/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Nice%20vigil
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3692878/Man-wielding-huge-machete-blade-arrested-vigil-84-victims-Nice-attack.html
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July 16, 2016 4:03pm
Ross12

I’ve just looked at the news reports on TV, on the Nice attack for the first time and I’m confused.

The report I saw said the guy had a pistol ( they may have said machine pistol), a couple of fake guns and inoperable grenades. If that is correct then he must have killed most of the victims with the truck, but 84 people being killed that way seems “improbable” ( I realise there was a big crowd).

There must more to this which I am missing —can someone point me in the direction of a good/better report on the incident.
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July 16, 2016 4:06pm
Rachael Membery

Reid (21,308 comments) says:

July 16th, 2016 at 3:25 pm

Seem bizarre not to have secured the airport.
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July 16, 2016 4:32pm
minus

Ross12

Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, a 31-year-old divorced loner, petty criminal and Tunisian national began his route of carnage by slowly moving onto the packed, seaside walkway around 10:40 p.m. local time. Then, say witnesses, he gunned the engine and weaved through the horrified crowd for nearly a mile, leaving a wake of dead and broken bodies. Police killed him in a shootout minutes later.
– Fox News

That is how
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July 16, 2016 4:32pm
stephieboy

Reid, and what did the missing 28 pages say ?

The missing passengers and crew have been found at a hidden base Area 51 ?

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1860871_1860876_1861006,00.html
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July 16, 2016 4:39pm
Ross12

Thanks minus.
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July 16, 2016 4:47pm
Manolo

I am confident KB’s pious resident Islamist will disapprove:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3692359/French-government-suppressed-gruesome-torture-Bataclan-victims-official-inquiry-told-castrated-eyes-gouged-ISIS-killers.html

The French government suppressed the media from reporting the gruesome torture of several of the Bataclan terrorist attack victims, it has been claimed.

A government committee has heard from a leading investigator that policemen on the scene of the attacks last November vomited after witnessing victims with their eyes gouged out. They claimed that some had been castrated with their genitals put in their mouths and that women were stabbed in the genitals.
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July 16, 2016 4:49pm
Reid

Seem bizarre not to have secured the airport.

Good point and lends credence to possibility it was an Erdogan setup, but if it wasn’t…

Government forces in Turkey are blaming Gülen. That would be the CIA.

Tweet (Ali Abunimah):
“White House statement notably lacks condemnation of (attempted) coup and demand that it end.”

WikiLeaks on the ‘Annotators’.

2014: “Saudi threatens to isolate Qatar for its support of Muslim Brotherhood”. They are supposed to have kissed and made up, but . . .

“The link between Muslim Brotherhood and ISIS”

“Attacks in Saudi Arabia bear hallmarks of Islamic State: CIA head”

Timing?: “Saudi Ties to 9/11 Detailed in Documents Suppressed Since 2002”

To overgeneralize, a bit, the two sides would be:
Saudi Arabia/al Qaeda/Sisi/Gülen-CIA; versus
Qatar/ISIS/Erdoğan/Muslim Brotherhood.

Is this a planted CIA story to finish Erdoğan off?

Reid, and what did the missing 28 pages say ?

stupidboy, I’m sure even you can drive google. Understanding what you read once you find it, is quite another matter but then if you can’t do that, which BTW you’ve proven over and over again is an impossibilty for you, then I can’t help you with that, you need a specialist, most importantly, you need someone who cares.
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July 16, 2016 4:51pm
stephieboy

Manolo, both the Daily Mail and Infowars sourced the claim from this French ultra-nationalist web site ,

http://breizatao.com/2016/07/14/bataclan-testicules-coupees-et-mises-dans-la-bouche-decapitations-pour-proteger-les-musulmans-le-gouvernement-francais-censure-les-tortures-infligees-aux-victimes/

Naturally, the need is to wait for independent corroboration something very unfamiliar to you.

All kinds of claim have been made about the Bataclan including Satanic rituals ,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nKNne0h5XM&feature=share

Do you believe them ?
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July 16, 2016 4:59pm
Viking2

FYI.

They had coffee. He was shocked to discover she liked Concord Dawn (“a fantastically awesome heavy New Zealand drum and bass outfit”). They had more coffees. Eventually, it became a relationship.

“We don’t really talk about it publicly. She’s definitely been the best thing that’s ever happened to me. I didn’t know what it meant to work hard until I started seeing what she does on a daily basis.

WHO?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11674545
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July 16, 2016 5:00pm
stephieboy

Reid, sorry to burst your conspiracy bubble chamber but it is obvious you do not have a clue about anything regarding the so-called missing 28 pages !

The missing 28 pages ,

http://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/07/28-pages-saudi/491552/
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July 16, 2016 5:04pm
Reid

French-government-suppressed-gruesome-torture-Bataclan-victims

Yes. They also didn’t say that the terrorists had drawn a huge Eye of Horus on the floor using the victims blood. Hardly the actions of devout Muslims. There is a group that use that symbol a lot in their blood sacrifices but you can’t talk about them so that’s probably why they allowed the sheeple to hallucinate it was the fucking ragheads.

They also haven’t explained why they left the terrorists alone for so long while they did all of that torturing and “artwork,” either.

Just hope that if you’re ever involved and there’s no escape, you die quickly. Because as time goes by, they will become more and more “inventive” just like they have in Syria. They also tortured in the Nigerian Mall attack BTW. Same kind of stuff. Just no “artwork” there.
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July 16, 2016 5:07pm
Reid

Reid, sorry to burst your conspiracy bubble chamber but it is obvious you do not have a clue about anything regarding the so-called missing 28 pages !

stupidboy I can’t recall ever discussing on here the probable content of the 28 pages and I know for sure I haven’t discussed that today, so how the fuck do you know what I know about them, let alone hallucinate you think you know my full sum of knowledge, sufficient to confidently bray that “I know nothing about them?”

I know you probably won’t understand what I just wrote, too many whys and wherefores, so I’ll just call you a fucking moron and let’s leave it at that, shall we. BTW, if you do have an answer to my question, I’m not at all interested in hearing it.
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July 16, 2016 5:11pm
stephieboy

Reid , Illuminati satanic rituals at the Bataclan is par for the course coming from you !

http://www.truthspoon.com/2015/11/friday-13th-part-zzzzzzzz-illuminati.html
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July 16, 2016 5:13pm
Johnboy

Trucks should all be governed to 5kph. Even the man with the red flag walking in front of them would have time to jump out of the way if some islamic bastard planted the metal! 🙂

Be easier to pass them on the open road in yer Skoda too! 🙂
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July 16, 2016 5:14pm
Johnboy

Police sharpshooters would have an easier time of it at 5kph! 🙂
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July 16, 2016 5:15pm
Rachael Membery

ephieboy (12,566 comments) says:

July 16th, 2016 at 1:14 pm

Not banning, just no longer importing and actually making integration a condition of those already here. Not apologizing for our sovereignty.

Bizarrely I think some Maori think they would have been better off if Muslims not Christians had gotten here first
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July 16, 2016 5:17pm
Brigitte

Speaking of a coup d’etat, does anyone remember the band of that name: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7pL1qQiBLg
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July 16, 2016 5:22pm
Rachael Membery

Sorry my copy paste had a mind of its own
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July 16, 2016 5:28pm
Johnboy

My willy used to have a mind of it’s own too Rachael then I got old! 🙂
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July 16, 2016 5:31pm
Shawn Herles

@Reid

“Yes. They also didn’t say that the terrorists had drawn a huge Eye of Horus on the floor using the victims blood.”

Why say something that is not true?

“Hardly the actions of devout Muslims. There is a group that use that symbol a lot in their blood sacrifices”

No, there really isn’t.

“but you can’t talk about them so that’s probably why they allowed the sheeple to hallucinate it was the fucking ragheads.”

The inarguable fact that every single Muslim terrorist has in fact been a Muslim is a bit of a clue, if your eye’s are open and you’re not reading gibbering rubbish from web sites that claim Walt Disney is a Satanic/Jewish cult.

And merely because they were hypocrites who also watched porn or ate pork does not mean they were not, by birth, Muslims.

Along with stephie, you are the very definition of a sheeple Reid.
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July 16, 2016 5:40pm
stephieboy

Rachael Membery , what do you mean by” integration” precisely ? Obviously obeying our laws is one . Wearing skimpy women’s attire another ?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/474x/97/0c/e6/970ce69941e102e70898e757f026f315.jpg

Eating pork and shellfish another ?

What else ?

Shawn Herles , you believe in the satanic Bataclan rituals as per Manolo’s post 4.49 post ?
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July 16, 2016 5:41pm
Reid

Why say something that is not true?

Because it is true.

If you can’t handle the truth, that’s not my problem.

If you don’t recognise truth when it happens, that’s not my problem, either.

If you reverse the picture, you can see the Eye of Horus marked by the blood of the victims

http://12160.info/profiles/blogs/paris-false-flag-attack-photo-inside-bataclan-theatre-crisis

http://imgur.com/X841sqa

http://st.depositphotos.com/2084373/2126/v/950/depositphotos_21263269-EYE-of-Horus—reverse-moon-eye-of-Thoth.jpg

But naturally, some will bray it’s just a coincidence, and the bodies gathered inside the circle were just a matter of “convenience.” This is why such people are called “useful idiots.” Because even when truth appears, they deny it. A bit like the crowd who reacted to the urging of the pharisees to release Barrabas. They were useful idiots too.
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July 16, 2016 5:59pm
Reid

The inarguable fact that every single Muslim terrorist has in fact been a Muslim is a bit of a clue

The inarguable fact that every single Muslim isn’t a terrorist, as evidenced every single day since 600 AD, whence billions of Muslims have walked the Earth without blowing up anyone or anything at all, is also a bit of a clue.

Along with stephie, you are the very definition of a sheeple Reid.

Along with the pre-war German people, you are the very definition of a sheeple Shawn.
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July 16, 2016 6:01pm

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