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June 8, 2016 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 8th June 2016

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General Debate

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nasska

Sex, drugs, rock ‘n roll & Labour Governments Nostra. 🙂
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June 8, 2016 8:05pm
Nostradamus

I can introduce you to someone who will cure each of those problems – Catherine Delahunty.
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June 8, 2016 8:07pm
stigie

Gawd Nostra, now you are plummeting the depths ole chap..?
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June 8, 2016 8:09pm
Scott Chris

tom hunter (7,075 comments) says:
June 8th, 2016 at 7:44 pm
@Scott Chris (7,796 comments) says:
June 8th, 2016 at 6:55 pm

It is a nice piece

Well it resonated with me because I felt it encompassed lefty realism as well as lefty propaganda in a fairly understandable way to an outside observer. Thanks for watching it.

Science won’t solve that – except in the sense that math tells us that if something can’t go on – won’t.

It’s a measure that appeals to the rational mind in spite of itself.
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June 8, 2016 8:10pm
Nostradamus

Stigie:

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Some photos can cure cancer. Other photos, such as this one, cause a cancer-like reaction but that’s another matter entirely!
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June 8, 2016 8:12pm
stigie

You picked a lovely photo of her Nostra, does she spin ya wheels..?
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June 8, 2016 8:17pm
Nostradamus

I can’t decide which one I like more, Stigie, that photo or this one that you shared with us yesterday. Which one do you like more?
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June 8, 2016 8:19pm
AgentBallSack

All the downticks tell me Dennis’s meds have kicked in and all he can do is froth over his mouse with his tongue. It’s 50/50 what you get.
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June 8, 2016 8:20pm
AgentBallSack

Is it even possible to tax the ozone hole away?
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June 8, 2016 8:24pm
nasska

A minister died and to his chagrin found himself at the gates of Hell. The Devil greeted him, checked in his book and announced, “Yes, there is a place for you here,” and walked with the minister to his assigned place in hell. On the way, they passed a palatial suite, where the minister saw a crooked lawyer he had known, and the crooked lawyer was making love to a beautiful woman.
The minister was troubled, but walked on with the devil. The devil ushered him into a tiny, cramped rocky cell. It was too much for the minister. “I admit I sinned when I was alive, but why am I sent to this cell for eternity when that crooked lawyer gets to spend eternity making love to a beautiful woman?”
“Who are you,” said Satan, “to quarrel with that woman’s punishment?”
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June 8, 2016 8:50pm
Psycho Milt

Rape is illegal and unethical. Disgusting. Anti-social. Unnecessary.

And yet, a supposedly fine upstanding citizen, scholar and athlete at a top university with no difficulty in attracting glowing character references from those who know him, had no ethical problem with stripping and finger-fucking an unconscious drunk girl, and presumably worse if he hadn’t been caught in the act. You need to apply your brain to that apparent contradiction – is there possibly some connection between the commonly-accepted view that it’s unsurprising for drunk girls to get raped and the willingness of Mr Turner to rape a drunk girl? I think there is, and I think the refusal to recognise the connection is a big part of the problem.
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June 8, 2016 9:00pm
RRM

All my Facebook leftie, PC, Bernie, Green party of Aotearoa, greenpeace, rape culture peeps be like:

🙁 OMG it is OUTRAGEOUS that that privileged white guy got 6 months for rape. We need harsher sentancing as a punishment and as a deterrant to others!

Me:

🙂 Alleluia!
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June 8, 2016 9:29pm
Scott Chris

RRM (12,343 comments) says:
June 8th, 2016 at 9:29 pm
All my Facebook leftie, PC, Bernie, Green party of Aotearoa, greenpeace, rape culture

Grats.
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June 8, 2016 9:43pm
Scott Chris

What’s your Facebook personae so I can leave a contribution RRM?
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June 8, 2016 9:47pm
Dennis Horne

@Psycho Milt. Man has evolved from bacteria, fishes, ‘crocodiles’, ‘monkeys’. Man was not designed and is full of irrational and contradictory behaviour, which may be reinforced by society, but has originated in the animal.

Women seem attracted to men with psychopathic traits: strong, independent, successful. Crocodiles. Despite what they say about liking considerate, gentle and kind men.

I have no idea what this student was thinking at the time or thinking afterwards. I don’t begin to understand why a man with his putative qualities couldn’t seduce a woman he wanted instead of trying to rape one.

But I don’t think it’s because he or his parents or friends or university community think rape is all right.
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June 8, 2016 10:01pm
All_on_Red

Are you sure about what his father thinks Dennis?
‘Dan Turner said in a letter to the judge that the conviction of his son, Brock Turner, on three felony sexual assault charges has shattered the 20-year-old, who has lost his appetite and will never be his happy-go-lucky self again.
The letter was made public over the weekend by a Stanford law professor who wants Santa Clara Superior Court Judge Aaron Persky removed from office over the sentence.
The letter has inflamed critics already outraged that Persky sentenced Brock Turner to six months in county jail and three years’ probation after the victim read an emotional statement in court.
Turner must also register as a convicted sex offender for the rest of his life.
“His life will never be the one that he dreamed about and worked so hard to achieve,” the father wrote. “That is a steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action out of his 20 plus years of life.”

Twenty minutes of ‘action’. So much for remorse and the feelings of the victim.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/dad-of-ex-stanford-swimmer-says-son-has-paid-price-for-rape/
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June 8, 2016 10:45pm
Left Right and Centre

No matter what you do or don’t do you are doomed to die of something and there is a good chance it will be nasty

That’s why I read GD. It hasn’t worked yet even though I keep thinking this is killing me.

Today’s moral question: if boys wear a bra as a form of protest, does that make them girly-boys?

Some blokes should be made to wear a damn manbra

general running . . . I was thinking about how feral called me faggot – then I thought – who is or was the fastest gay man on earth ? Is there a list of fastest times over distances ? Ok – and this stuff is just coming to me right now – are gay men worse at sport ? Do they run slower overall ? Time doesn’t care who you are, does it ? The watch doesn’t say – hey mate, that time was really gay. It just gives everyone the number they got. I wondered at my run event how they’d deal with all these weirdos. A person – clearly 100% born a bloke, claiming to be woman trapped in a man’s body. Can they register as a woman ? No-one claims to be not mentally ageing or ageing half as quickly. Isn’t that more believable than man trapped as woman ? Although people say they feel younger mentally or older. How do you feel younger or older ? How would you know ? I don’t know how I feel. Touch a hot stove – I feel pain. It’s hard to argue with someone saying they are a woman in a man’s body. What the hell *are we* anyway ? You look into someone’s eyes – there’s nothing to see – you can’t see *them*. I can’t even see *me*. Where am I in there ? Am I . . . in my eyes ? I’m in the brain somehow. With free will – or is it ? Damn – another existential crisis – you’ve got to have at least one each day. Or do you ?

You take a woman – and a man – whatever they are. What’s the difference again ? Brain in a body and . . . brain in a body. So – are we really *all* a man / woman trapped in a man / woman’s body ? And how does that miracle happen time and time again – a lot of girls turn out feminine and a lot of boys turn out masculine. So much in common – and also so many differences. Femininity – you’ve either got it, or you don’t. Maybe some women have it in a different way to others. There’s something very sweet and angelic and pleasing about a lot of women. They have a way about them. They’re called the opposite sex. I’d call them ‘not men’. Are they the opposite ? The other sex. They are the other sex. That works. There’s two sexes – and they’re one of them. Brilliant. Opposite ? I’d like certain members of their team to be opposite me in a cafe – is that where it comes from ? These blokes claiming to be women trapped in their male body. Really ? Nice try. They just wish they’d been born women. But they weren’t. There’s a lot of straight bloke cross-dressers. And then there’s the sevens – hello ? Not many women dressing up as men I notice. But men – oh yeah. I really don’t like someone saying they’re in the wrong body – and now I’ve got to go against my thinking and pretend they’re a woman as if they were born a woman. Well – it’s not the same – lady – you’ve got a man’s body – you either do or did have a penis and scrotum. I don’t know why it makes a difference but it makes a real difference. And if I’m honest – it makes me think – it’s a bloke pushing his weird shit onto me, and yet I’m the rude prick for not accepting it as ‘ok’. It’s not a woman !! How do you prove mentally that you’re a man or a woman, huh ? Mentally and psychologically etc – I’ve come to realise I’m a woman. Um, sure – ok. And . . . you’ve just slowly reached that conclusion then based on . . .

It’s like a driving licence. There’s no licence test for ‘women’ trapped in a man’s body. Yeah – you passed bitch – you really are a sister, see ? All our tests agree. And then what I’m I meant to do ? Tests say that nature puts women into men’s bodies – sorry – you’re going to have to look past the masculine physique and suck it up (not literally).

On a not very scientific level – not that any of this was, although I try to read about people and psychology which is a good way to slide into oblivion stunned by the blip of time whatever I am is spending on this alleged planet and alleged known everything that may or may not be happening or some answer much smarter than any of us will likely know – unless one of us is in fact a deity – how about that – on little old KB all along – hiding in the comments, with all of the ‘what’s it all about’ know-how. Is it beyond our understanding ? Ahem – blah blah level – it’s a bloody man who thinks he’s a woman. That doesn’t make him a woman. How bloody stupid ‘well – he’s chosen to be a woman so that’s it, from now on as far as everyone else is concerned, that’s the end of the matter’. How do they get on in life ? Where do these people work ? They are rubbish women. There’s a way that women move around and do things – talk – different brains – different nature and personality. Why are the trapped women so rubbish at being women ? They are not very good female impersonators. And even if they were indistinguishable – that’s a damn typing test that word – try typing ‘indistinguishable’ one hundred times without one error – from natural born women; it’s a bloke’s damn body !! I wouldn’t do them for the same reason I wouldn’t do a fat ugly cow with a shaved head and tatted titties – you’re too much like a bloke, and for a straight man – that’s gay.
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June 9, 2016 1:47am
Dennis Horne

All_on_Red. We know what the father says after a very significant event in his son’s life, in which he is emotionally involved. We don’t know what he said about rape before this. What do you suppose he might say about rape if it were a wife or daughter involved?

I agree the father sounds crass and irrational. But then so do you at times. Especially if it threatens your belief you know more about science than (nearly) all the cleverest and informed people on the planet put together, and what they think. (Lindzen tried justifying being a luke-warmist; his temperature projections were wildly out. Curry wanted a foot in both camps, but tripped up when her ‘gold standard’ satellite temperature set ran amok.)

Rape is a very difficult thing to discuss, partly because it means different things to different people. Witness the Julian Assange nonsense, with the British government spending ~$20 million trying to ensure he wouldn’t avoid being questioned in Sweden (not the UK) after consensual sex with two women, who got their heads together days or weeks after the events. Probably with the FBI in the background, certainly after the case was dismissed by the local prosecutor initially.

I haven’t read anything about the Stanford case. It seems, skimming this blog, he did not penetrate her with his penis. If that is correct, is that rape in NZ?

I don’t know what the answer is, frankly. I see both sides. I see what hormones do to young animals including man. It’s not like burglary, is it. Rape, as defined now, is in our past. Without ‘rape’, we probably wouldn’t be here.

I see what happens when stuff gets blown out of all proportion. Like the American dentist who killed a ‘tame’ lion. People laid siege to his surgery and called for him to be executed.

Yes, the student was wrong. But maybe her father giving him a good thrashing would have done more good for everyone involved? (Yes, I know that’s not how it works.)

A young women might think this terrible experience is the worst thing that could or will happen to her in her whole life. Is it?

Does she still think she can get totally pissed and every man on the planet will think he must care for her?

Incidentally, a few months ago a youngish man, having driven disqualified in the middle of the night on a wet road he knew well, was sentenced for crashing into a car and killing a visiting Dutch grandmother. Community service and a few dollars reparation. No letters to the editor. Nothing.

Do we think rape is worse than slaughter? It would seem so.
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June 9, 2016 6:56am
Northland Wahine

Picture this…good looking frat guy at a party, far too much to drink. Leaves party intoxicated with another guy, collapses comotosed behind a dumpster. Wakes to find his pants have been removed and his anus is being fingered by another man. 2 women tackle the offender as he tries to run away.

Would the offenders actions still be seen as a youthful discretion?

I think not.
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June 9, 2016 7:33am
Psycho Milt

I haven’t read anything about the Stanford case. It seems, skimming this blog, he did not penetrate her with his penis. If that is correct, is that rape in NZ?

We don’t know what else he would have done because he was stopped by passers-by. Also, it doesn’t matter whether the body parts he stuck in her included a penis or not. Also, it’s exactly this kind of looking for excuses to minimise his responsibility and blame the woman for what happened to her that makes this shit more likely to happen, and we should all stop doing it.
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June 9, 2016 7:40am
Dennis Horne

@Psycho Milt. We don’t know what anyone might do. The law doesn’t punish you for what you might do.

Ask the gynaecologist jailed in Christchurch for rape if it mattered what body part he stuck in women.

I’m not blaming the women for a man assaulting her. I am saying it is absolute madness to tell a woman she can dress and behave as she likes believing every man on the planet will take care of her rather than taking advantage of her.

We simply haven’t evolved that way. I know you think humans are a blank slate and the universe could work the way you think it should. It doesn’t and it won’t. Ever.
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June 9, 2016 7:52am
Dennis Horne

@Psycho Milt. Back to an earlier question, unanswered and now rephrased.

Suppose a survey showed that 100.00% of men said it was totally unacceptable for women — wives/mother/sisters — to be raped.

Would rape still occur in that society, do you think?
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June 9, 2016 8:15am
Psycho Milt

Of course it would. We must have close to 100% believing murder’s unacceptable and still have plenty of murders. The question is whether culture affects people’s willingness to murder, and if you think it doesn’t, ask yourself whether a New Zealand mother would burn her daughter alive for marrying without permission.

Consider this: occasionally in this country an old lady living by herself opens her front door to someone who bashes and robs her. These attacks are pretty rare and are carried out only by the lowest of the low, people who are despised for their crime even by other criminals.

Now, suppose we had decades of respectable people saying “Well, it’s absolute madness to tell old ladies they can live by themselves and not be robbed,” and blog-commenter fuckwits saying “The stupid bitch only had herself to blame, living alone,” and police superintendents appearing on the news to appeal to old ladies not to live alone, and if they must live separately from their extended families or a nursing home, at least move in with friends, and judges handing down lenient sentences to yoofs who bash and rob old ladies because the perp is young and hasn’t done this kind of thing before and has expressed remorse. After those decades, do you think:

1. The crime of bashing and robbing old ladies living alone would still be rare?

2. That it would still only be carried by the lowest of the criminal fraternity?

The reason these easy targets (old ladies living alone) are not bashed and robbed a lot more than they are is because someone who does it puts themselves beyond the pale, even among other criminals. Brock Turner hasn’t put himself beyond the pale, he has legions of supporters all lining up to say what a top bloke he is and how his victim just shouldn’t have been drunk in the first place. If doing what Brock Turner did was regarded in the same way as bashing and robbing an old lady is, he wouldn’t have done it, it’s as simple as that. So let’s stop making excuses and put this crime beyond the pale.
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June 9, 2016 9:19am
Dennis Horne

@Psycho Milt. There are two separate issues here. It is summed up by saying men should respect women (and men), and women should learn that some men in some circumstances won’t respect them. No matter what you or anyone else says or does.

And no matter what society or the law says or does, a women cannot be ‘unraped’.

And no matter how excited people get, worse things happen to women than having sexual contact without, or without being aware of, giving consent.

I appreciate discussing this with you. I have a son and a daughter — whose friends tell her I am a dinosaur, so old-fashioned is my moral code. I just think people should behave themselves and look after their children. You know, like blackbirds do.
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June 9, 2016 12:31pm

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