General Debate 5th June 2016

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment154

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (154)

Login to comment or vote

Keeping Stock

Question: Where was the Labour Party and its claims of a housing crisis when homes in New Zealand were reported by the NZ Herald to be the least affordable in the world?

Answer: In government, January 2008.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10487926

Isn’t it funny how history gets rewritten when the narrative doesn’t fit your agenda?
8 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 6:02pm
Griff

Data (not invalidated models!) indicate CO2 has a warming effect somewhere <2°C per doubling.

Sorry the laws of physics says something very different
Basic stuff increasing temperature increasing water vapor content.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/moisture-holding-capacity-air-d_281.html

Measured
http://www.pnas.org/content/111/32/11636

Significance

The fact that water vapor is the most dominant greenhouse gas underscores the need for an accurate understanding of the changes in its distribution over space and time. Although satellite observations have revealed a moistening trend in the upper troposphere, it has been unclear whether the observed moistening is a facet of natural variability or a direct result of human activities. Here, we use a set of coordinated model experiments to confirm that the satellite-observed increase in upper-tropospheric water vapor over the last three decades is primarily attributable to human activities. This attribution has significant implications for climate sciences because it corroborates the presence of the largest positive feedback in the climate system.
2 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 6:07pm
Captain Mainwaring

“Question: Where was the Labour Party and its claims of a housing crisis when homes in New Zealand were reported by the NZ Herald to be the least affordable in the world?”

Answer: In government, January 2008.”
…………………………………………………………………………………………
Good point KS, but later that year they were chucked out.
Let’s all pray that history doesn’t repeat.
3 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 6:12pm
DifferentPerspective

It’s official…..

Maggy Wassilieff (3,495 comments) says:
June 5th, 2016 at 4:43 pm
@Dennis horne

remember PV=nRT?

Yesterday you began the debate with

Venus is similar in size and distance from the Sun as Earth and has a greenhouse atmosphere. CO2 on Venus is 96% and the mean temperature is 462C. Hot. Very very hot.

I could just as easily and correctly write…
CO2 on Mars is 95.3% and the mean temperature is -55C. Cold (very cold…. can range to -133C).

But Venus differs from Earth in having such a dense atmosphere that the pressure at the surface of the planet is 95X that on Earth, and Mars’ atmosphere is so thin that the surface pressure is one tenth that of Earth’s.

That adiabatic effects are prominent on Venus seems to fit with the measured temperature profile of its atmosphere.
(see p. 35-38 Milone & Wilson 2008: Solar System Astrophysics: Planetary atmospheres and the outer solar system)

… I am in love!
5 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 6:17pm
DifferentPerspective

I’ve been saying this for a few months now – but Winston is going to benefit from the Trump effect.

He’s going to have 12-15 MPs in 2017. The Nats are going to be about 55. The price for his support is going to be very simple:
a) John Key steps down as National’s leader (utu for 2008)
b) Winnie gets to be PM for the first 12 months of the coalition (fulfils his destiny)

And there’ll be a few baubles for the blue rinse supporters as well.

No need for the bouffant buffoon. No need for the racist Maori Party. RMA gets fixed and all the stupid special treatment for Maori provisions get erased. Muslims not welcome. 2 parties – easy life.
5 5
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 6:25pm
Happychappy

So Labour and the Greens and the media ramp up the science to help their cause,the Greens want to spend millions cleaning up ten rivers that they say the Government don’t want to save and Andrew Little agrees to save them for the Greens.It looks like the media are jealous of the two party’s relationship and want to be a threesome.The one question that some one has to ask these lovers where is all this money coming from
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 6:26pm
Scott Chris

Well Griff and Dennis and co, I’d find it hard to argue our warmist position if the last 12 months hadn’t each consecutively set records for their hottest years on record.

Nothing to see here, move on.
2 7
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 6:26pm
Griff

Ocean temperatures are a far better metric for the informed to focus on Scott,
Around 93% of the energy goes into the oceans.
Their temperature has steady risen right throughout the so called pause.
The “pause” in atmospheric temperatures was always based on faith not reality as Tamino so ably pointed out in Jan 2015.
https://tamino.wordpress.com/2015/01/20/its-the-trend-stupid-3/
4 6
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 6:40pm
Scott Chris

Griff (13,549 comments) says:
June 5th, 2016 at 6:40 pm
Ocean temperatures are a far better metric for the informed to focus on Scott,
Around 93% of the energy goes into the oceans.
Their temperature has steady risen right throughout the so called pause.
The “pause” in atmospheric temperatures was always based on faith not reality as Tamino so ably pointed out in Jan 2015.

Mate, you know that the stupid cunts next default position will be that warming is good for us.
3 5
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 6:45pm
Captain Mainwaring

So the great green Taniwha was on the news tonight saying that when she’s in Government she’s going to make some river in the South Island not only safe to wade in, but safe to swim in.
Judging from the footage of said river on the screen, the only thing preventing one from swimming there it the fact that there doesn’t seem to be any water in it.
6 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 6:53pm
Griff

Stage 1: Deny the Problem Exists
Stage 2: Deny We’re the Cause
Stage 3: Deny It’s a Problem
Stage 4: Deny We can Solve It
Stage 5: It’s too Late
Theoretical stage 6 blame scientific community for not telling them loud enough.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/sep/16/climate-change-contrarians-5-stages-denial
4 8
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 6:55pm
Nostradamus

Metiria Turei was a LARPer (live action role playing gamer) in her pre-MP days.

This event was tailor-made for her (if you’ll excuse the passing reference to well-fitted suits):

In the heart of a Czech forest, close to 1,000 Hobbit fans gathered dressed as their favourite characters to re-enact an epic battle from the classic JRR Tolkien novel. Participants dressed up as elf archers, goblins, orcs, wargs, or Men of Dale, and battled it out using realistic-looking weapons made of wood and fibreglass.

According to the organisers website, victory is determined by the successful fulfilment of certain tasks, such as “securing strategically important ford” or “strongest cast”.

The Battle of Five Armies re-enactment, which has taken place every year since 2000, was staged in a forest near small vacation town Doksy in the Czech Republic. In Tolkien’s novel, the battle takes place at the foot of the Lonely Mountain, and was also portrayed in the 2014 film The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies.

Hobbit haters unite! 🙂
6 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 7:01pm
Nostradamus

Griff:

Pete George has posted something you’ll be interested in:

Dealing with rising sea levels
Fashion with a practical use?

Do you know of a reputable shoes saleman who might stock these?
4 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 7:08pm
Awww C-mon

@Nostra, what has changed other than she gets paid for it? She is still pretending.
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 7:10pm
Viking2

here is another one for you K.S.
what does the Labour party intend to do to uphold the hard fought and won rights of women in NZ. that are contrary to the rights allowed to Muslim women by Islam?

Come to think of it what are the feminists going to do? Strangely silent are they not.
4 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 7:29pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Dennis Horne 5:53

to show the effect of CO2, which many still deny. It causes warming. For well know reasons.

Imagine my surprise when I came across this recent paper. (Geophysical Research Letters)…showing that increasing CO2 leads to cooling. (negative greenhouse effect)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2015GL066749/full
3 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 7:31pm
Viking2

Here’s another question.

After the Maori’s have attained their goal of separate Governance and separate Law will they allow the Islamists to have the same in NZ i.e. Sharia Law with its enclaves etc?
5 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 7:31pm
Reid

Metiria Turei was a LARPer (live action role playing gamer) in her pre-MP days.

As more and more is revealed about her the less and less I want to know.

Strange really, as I’m quite interested in people and why they do what they do.

But the only thing I’m interested in re: her is: what has she had that’s held their appeal for so long?

I expect Genter will be her successor, probably soon.

I assume Shaw has been vigourously working behind the scenes to secure someone, anyone, not quite as insane as his current co-leader.

And Genter is the obvious choice.
4 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 7:35pm
Scott Chris

Maggy Wassilieff (3,496 comments) says:
June 5th, 2016 at 7:31 pm

Imagine my surprise when I came across this recent paper. (Geophysical Research Letters)…showing that increasing CO2 leads to cooling. (negative greenhouse effect)

Well I’m guessing you looked pretty hard for that result Maggy.

Care to explain to us its method and rationale? In your own words please.
2 7
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 7:38pm
Brigitte

Thought for the day.

CO2 has now passed 400ppm. The level of CO2 has been over 400ppm many times in the past. In every single case, 100 years after crossing that barrier there have been precisely ZERO humans alive.
3 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 7:41pm
Nostradamus

Reid:

I assume Shaw has been vigourously working behind the scenes to secure someone, anyone, not quite as insane as his current co-leader.

And Genter is the obvious choice.

Just to clarify, Reid, are you saying Genter is insane but not quite as insane as Turei?
5 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 7:48pm
Scott Chris

Brigitte (642 comments) says:
June 5th, 2016 at 7:41 pm
Thought for the day.

CO2 has now passed 400ppm. The level of CO2 has been over 400ppm many times in the past. In every single case, 100 years after crossing that barrier there have been precisely ZERO humans alive.

Yeah whatever Brig. What you’re really saying is that homo sapiens sapiens rocks because we’ve set a new record for CO2 for the last gajillian years. Go us.
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 7:49pm
Reid

Thought for the day.

CO2 is plant food. If plants die, so do humans. Plants will die if CO2 levels drop. CO2 wasn’t considered to be a greenhouse gas till the 90’s. All those cars putting out all that CO2 since the 20’s yet not one mouse squeeked till it became convenient to get the taxpayer to fund the switch from oil distribution infrastructure to electricity infrastructure.

Still no word on what Tesla proved in the 1920’s by his demonstrations at county fairs – extract electicity from the ether. To the contrary, the MSM confines the discussion to extracting electricity from the grid, powered by plants that generate toxic waste requiring storage for the next twenty thousand years.

Sad Tesla’s papers disappeared when he dies a pauper in NYC in the 1940’s, isn’t it. You woulda thought since he demonstrated his techniques, the MSM would be screaming, if they really did care about AGW, wouldn’t ya.
3 5
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 7:53pm
Reid

Just to clarify, Reid, are you saying Genter is insane but not quite as insane as Turei?

Don’t know the former well enough Nosty but lets just say there’s a difference between insane and deluded and let’s just say the former isn’t on evidence to date the former but more than probably is the latter and the latter is most definitely the former, no question.

The good thing is, the latter can be corrected but the former is permanent and incurable, at least the version the latter has displayed to date.
4 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:03pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Scott Chris

The paper has been around for 6 months…
there’s a few popular accounts of the work..

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/warming-culprit-co2-has-cool-side-%E2%80%94-and-it%E2%80%99s-antarctica

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/12/rising-atmospheric-carbon-dioxide-actually-cools-part-antarctica
3 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:03pm
Scott Chris

Reid (21,088 comments) says:
June 5th, 2016 at 7:53 pm
Thought for the day.

CO2 is plant food.

Quite. In the short term plants will benefit from elevated levels of CO2.

But negligible compared to the massive vapour trails ay Reid.
4 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:05pm
Scott Chris

Maggy Wassilieff (3,497 comments) says:
June 5th, 2016 at 8:03 pm
@Scott Chris

The paper has been around for 6 months…
there’s a few popular accounts of the work..

So, care to explain the paper’s method and rationale, and why you find it so compellingly true?
2 5
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:09pm
Scott Chris

answer; she hasn’t read it
3 6
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:11pm
stephieboy

Reid,

“Nikola Tesla is a popular figure in conspiracy culture. A lone genius who apparently invented everything we use today, and who was on the brink of discovering free energy when his work was brutally suppressed by the government.

It’s not even just a conspiracy culture thing, the cult of Tesla extends into mainstream geek culture (which I’m a part of myself, being a computer games programmer). That same lone genius myth appeals to them in a similar way:

And yet, much of the Tesla Worship is based on misconceptions. …”

https://www.metabunk.org/tesla-is-overrated-debunking-the-cult-of-tesla.t894/

Entertaining some of your dumb conspiracy musings and where they lead .

Free Energy – Abracadabra whoof and pooff !
5 5
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:14pm
Brigitte

The key point of the paper Maggy quotes seems to be:

“The ground is so cold that little infrared radiation comes from the planet’s surface. But, like in other places around the world, CO2 in the stratosphere over Antarctica soaks in heat in the atmosphere and sends infrared radiation pinballing in different directions. That siphons some heat into space that would otherwise stay near Earth. Elsewhere, this effect is normally overshadowed by the trapping of heat from the ground, but in Antarctica, so little heat comes from the ground that the loss becomes significant, causing an overall cooling effect.”

So, if we are at -93C then increasing CO2 will cause a cooling effect. Well, that would be useful then wouldn’t it.
5 0
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:15pm
Brigitte

Nikola Tesla, hmm, but what about the Tesla Girls? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH7MwYBdSvM
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:18pm
Longknives

This talk of Tesla reminded me of some quality Power Ballads…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2q_-xN2N54
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:18pm
Scott Chris

Hey Maggy look up Vapor Trail studies and quote them too if they’ll support your argument. Pretty sure you won’t read them either. 🙂
4 6
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:22pm
Reid

Tesla was the greatest scientific genius this world was ever privilaged to entertain stupidboy. He was greater than Newton, Darwin, Gallileo or any of the other lessor mortals history elevates.

The fact you don’t know this doesn’t surprise me.

The fact you don’t bother to educate yourself on him doesn’t surprise me, either.

It’s why I call you stupidboy.

Because stupid is as stupid does.

For those who aren’t stupidboy, know nothing about Tesla but are curious, read Margret Cheney’s Tesla: Man out of Time as an intro.
3 6
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:24pm
Griff

CO2 wasn’t considered to be a greenhouse gas till the 90’s

Right decade wrong century.

On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature of the Ground
Svante Arrhenius
Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science
Series 5, Volume 41, April 1896, pages 237-276
http://www.rsc.org/images/Arrhenius1896_tcm18-173546.pdf
4 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:27pm
Scott Chris

Griff (13,551 comments) says:
June 5th, 2016 at 8:27 pm
CO2 wasn’t considered to be a greenhouse gas till the 90’s

Yeah well neither was dark energy and it still isn’t but if our conspiracy to control conservative citizen’s lives doesn’t pan out then that’s our next option Griff.
4 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:31pm
mikenmild

No Reid, Muhammad Ali was the greatest of all time. I’m very surprised you didn’t know that.
3 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:36pm
starboard

more native horseplay..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/80762097/man-now-stable-after-stabbing-incident-in-central-whanganui
2 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:48pm
Captain Mainwaring

“I expect Genter will be her successor, probably soon.”

Thanks Reid. And if we must have a successor to the frightening Turei, please let it be Genter. She may be nearly as mad, but at least she’s easy on the eye.
5 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 8:49pm
Reid

Interesting from all the AGW hysteryists there’s still no mention of the twenty thousand year storage problem of the nuclear waste.

Isn’t it.

I mean, given its toxicity you’d think that’s a far far far far far far more immediate problem for them but no, evidently not.

Instead they choose to get literally hysterical about a mere few ppm atmospheric change happening, according to them, in the last few decades.

Let’s not worry at all about the economic and biological containment issues involved in containing this waste for the next twenty THOUSAND, yes, THOUSAND, yes, that’s THOUSAND years.

Shall we.

Talk about perspective.

Apparently, when you go completely mental, perspective is the very first thing one loses.

Poor things.

Let’s just hope they’ve never bred.
3 4
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 9:07pm
stephieboy

Reid, I think this review of MS Cheny’s biography provides appropriate context and perspective ,

http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2PKJCD2RWH6NB/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0743215362

I think if say Stephen Hawking or other Physics Nobel Laureate gave Tesla are ringing endorsement than that is the time to make notice . But do keep on working on and in your conspiracy fantasy world .

From my previous link,

“Myth 1: Tesla invented polyphase AC power: FALSE. First there was a hand-cranked AC generator developed by Hippolyte Pixii in 1832. Single phase AC power was being used more in Europe by many inventors in the early 1880s. As early as the late 1870’s Germany had developed a 2 phase AC generator. In New York City Tesla had approached investors in 1886 with his AC system and did not have success. So in the United States in New York there was little confidence in AC power systems. From a world wide perspective there was many working on AC systems. August Haselwander and C.S. Bradley(a former Edison employee) created the first 3 phase AC generators(1887). Mikhail Dolivo-Dobrovsky built the first full 3 phase AC generation and distribution system in the 1888-1891 period. Tesla continued to be stuck in his two-phase system which proved to be less effective than three…”
2 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 9:13pm
Scott Chris

Reid (21,091 comments) says:
June 5th, 2016 at 9:07 pm
Interesting from all the AGW hysteryists there’s still no mention of the twenty thousand year storage problem of the nuclear waste.

Not sure that the immediate threat extends to 20 thousand years let alone one thousand. But yes, molten salt reactors could reprocess a lot of nuclear waste so perhaps that is the way to go.
1 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 9:16pm
Reid

Reid, I think this review of MS Cheny’s biography provides appropriate context and perspective ,

Dumbo, why would you possibly think that?

Oh wait.

But yes, molten salt reactors could reprocess a lot of nuclear waste so perhaps that is the way to go.

So they can make it safe in how many years Scott? And how many are there, and how much waste is there, and how much govt funding is going into it, vs the govt funding going into much more important things, like weapons for immediate use?
1 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 9:21pm
big bruv

So many of you are talking as if Winston has ethics and real policies he wants to see enacted. Have you forgotten what he is really like?

Winston’s only wish is to be PM, he does not want to actually do any fucking work, he has no real desire to end the special treatment of Maori and he has no real desire to stop immigration. He just knows what buttons to push and our fucking media let him get away with it.
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 9:35pm
Scott Chris

Reid (21,092 comments) says:
June 5th, 2016 at 9:21 pm

So they can make it safe in how many years Scott? And how many are there, and how much waste is there, and how much govt funding is going into it, vs the govt funding going into much more important things, like weapons for immediate use?

You’re being sarcastic Reid? It’s hard to tell sometimes. I don’t think the world needs any more enriched uranium or plutonium…. odd how the poms have the largest stockpile of the latter. But trust me, if your man Trump gets in there won’t be any kind of rationalization of nuclear fissile resource.
1 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 9:41pm
stephieboy

Reid , nobody suggests that Telsa did not make any contribution to understanding the properties of electricity and energy .However his contribution as a genius was no more nor lessor one than Edison . There were many others like Edison and Marconi working in the same areas and he wasn’t the the only one working on developing the induction motor and many other things .

Some of his claims reached into the bizarre and fantastic including claiming to receive extraterrestrial voice transmissions , developed death rays and had built an earth quake machine ,

10 Uncomfortable Truths About Nikola Tesla

http://listverse.com/2014/09/26/10-
4 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 9:47pm
Scott Chris

I’ll make this tenuous observation; Vladimir Putin has been very quiet lately but not because he chose to be; rather the Western filter made it so. Why? Because a Putin/Trump double team doesn’t sit well with press freedom.

Bit paranoid but we live in strange times.
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 10:06pm
Reid

Vladimir Putin has been very quiet lately

Scott don’t listen to Putin from Western media, you’ll never get facts if you do.
0 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 10:24pm
Scott Chris

Reid authoritarianism leads to tyranny its inevitable. History tells us that that way ends in failure. Kim Jong whatever ring a bell?

I don’t understand the Putin phenomenon but I kind of know that it’s a reaction to the failure of USSR. America is the pinnacle of our civilization and Russia fell hard. Putin might be good for some kind of Russian resurrection but in relative terms he’s a light-weight. America is so much more important.
2 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 10:43pm
starboard

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/80767362/horror-road-toll-continues-as-six-dead-in-crashes-across-new-zealand

Maybe we drop the open road speed limit to 50 ? That will be Plods next move.

Give it up..your campaign is not working. Go and solve burglaries instead. Oh, that’s right..no revenue in it.
2 3
Log in to Reply
Report
June 5, 2016 10:57pm
Dennis Horne

@Science Deniers. Sorry I missed the meeting. I fell asleep.

So, Science Deniers, and that includes you, Maggie, in my sleep I realised something.

If the atmosphere on Venus were nitrogen and oxygen like Earth’s it wouldn’t heat up like that. Whatever the pressure. Because neither gas would absorb enough shortwave or longwave radiation.

It’s the CO2 what does it. Obvious really.

CO2.
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 6, 2016 12:43am
Dennis Horne

@Maggie Wassilieff. The wonderfully cooling effect of CO2 hasn’t saved the Arctic.

Will it save the Antarctic? Or will the warming ocean currents deal to it.

Well, why don’t we just wait until we have a one line proof:
business as usual = our habitat is fucked
1 2
Log in to Reply
Report
June 6, 2016 12:56am
Dennis Horne

@Reid. Solar and wind is working out cheaper than (new) nuclear. That must be a comfort for you.

You might like to watch this talk by Nobel winning physicist and former secretary of energy, Steven Chu.

2016 Reines Lecture Series: Energy, Climate Change, and the Transition to a Sustainable World
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXr5xzkFoZM

Of course it won’t be enough. There’ll never be enough. We are breeding ourselves out of existence.
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 6, 2016 1:14am
Dennis Horne

@Reid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
“The existence of the greenhouse effect was argued for by Joseph Fourier in 1824. The argument and the evidence was further strengthened by Claude Pouillet in 1827 and 1838, and reasoned from experimental observations by John Tyndall in 1859.[7] The effect was more fully quantified by Svante Arrhenius in 1896.[8] However, the term “greenhouse” was not used to refer to this effect by any of these scientists; the term was first used in this way by Nils Gustaf Ekholm in 1901.[9][10]
In 1917 Alexander Graham Bell wrote “[The unchecked burning of fossil fuels] would have a sort of greenhouse effect”, and “The net result is the greenhouse becomes a sort of hot-house.”[11][12] Bell went on to also advocate the use of alternate energy sources, such as solar energy.[13]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_climate_change_science
“The history of the scientific discovery of climate change began in the early 19th century when ice ages and other natural changes in paleoclimate were first suspected and the natural greenhouse effect first identified. In the late 19th century, scientists first argued that human emissions of greenhouse gases could change the climate. Many other theories of climate change were advanced, involving forces from volcanism to solar variation. In the 1960s, the warming effect of carbon dioxide gas became increasingly convincing … “
1 1
Log in to Reply
Report
June 6, 2016 1:32am

More comments:

‹
1
2

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« RIP The Greatest

Shaw and Turei already disagreeing »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 37.4K other subscribers

Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

"Seymour is only doing openly what M?ori nationalists and their Pakeha allies have been doing, quietly for the past 50 years."
Not PC
Barry Soper: The h?koi was M?ori Party's crowning glory
Breaking Views
Sowell says
Hompaddock
Seymour’s opponents need better arguments
Point of Order
Continuous Process Improvement
No Minister
New Zealand government urged to back ICC arrest warrants for Israeli leaders without equivocation
The Daily Blog
Popuphobia’s Javier Milei Problem
Utopia
Open mike 22/11/2024
The Standard
Drawn
No Right Turn
The transgender agenda sunk Kamala
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
What does “reciprocity” mean in New Zealand laws?
Croaking Cassandra
A Day of Reckoning
NZCPR
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz