General Debate 3 June 2016

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Dennis Horne

Nobody denies Earth and its climate has been vastly different in its past.

That is exactly one line of evidence which helps to understand our future if we maintain “business as usual”. When Earth is warmer the sea level is higher. Because (land) ice melts.

What is man doing? We are extracting energy from what is in effect sunlight that has been buried for millions of years as carbon. Because that C was extracted from Earth’s atmosphere by living matter using sunlight as energy.

Now we’re pumping that formerly locked-up energy back into the system. Simple science.

Well, that’s enough time wasted.
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June 3, 2016 8:03am
Scott Chris

Liberal vs. Conservative: A Neuroscientific Analysis with Dr Gail Saltz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI-un8rHP14
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June 3, 2016 8:04am
Lucia Maria

Prince died of ‘fentanyl toxicity,’ an overdose of a painkiller

According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, fentanyl is a “powerful synthetic opiate analgesic similar to but more potent than morphine. It is typically used to treat patients with severe pain, or to manage pain after surgery. It is also sometimes used to treat people with chronic pain who are physically tolerant to opiates.”
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June 3, 2016 8:05am
RalphT

At last someone gets it right:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/bbc-religion-chief-says-it-is-wrong-to-suggest-isis-has-nothing-to-do-with-islam-a7060871.html

99% of us have known it for some time but the MSM rarely lets that voice be heard.
And BTW, the BBC’s new religion head is a Muslim.
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June 3, 2016 8:07am
jcuk

He would say that Ralph T 🙂
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June 3, 2016 8:11am
Happychappy

So after the big hit job by Labour and the Greens about People having to live in cars we have found out that after being offered help fourteen out of fifteen refused help.This could mean that some of these family’s have something to hide and don’t want to be in the news because of it, so maybe the media should have got their facts right before accommodating the opposition lies
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June 3, 2016 8:12am
Paulus Gnome

Not a bad effort for Manhire in this morning’s comic; almost makes it a shame to recycle the left over to the little ponys’ chip wrapping correspondence honors course.

‘Joyce will hardly be awake at night fretting about the reupholstered Laboureen hydra. . . . . With or without a Winston-shaped outrigger, National remains comfortably placed for a fourth term. But the deal, if it avoids the main pitfalls, at least puts Labour and Greens in the game. The two red and green parties would do well, as they strive to keep their discipline,’

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11649618

‘As long as that is the case, they (the labour green pally pact) might as well make the best of it, and pragmatically send a message that they are serious about reaching government, grown-up about how MMP works, and acting constructively. Newshub’s political editor Patrick Gower responded to the refusal to lay out who would get which positions in power by designing his own half-serious, half-mischievous (Shane Jones was there, as a NZ First MP) cabinet in a Labour-led government. This was regarded by some as an exercise in mockery. But given Labour’s tribulations of recent times, the very appearance of the words “Labour-led government” in the media are a kind of triumph.’

Reading further, Manhires work is undone by Thomas (he really is shit) that provides yet another angle on pimping the poor:

Paul Thomas: Costly cigarettes punish the wrong smokers

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11649629

‘It’s a discriminatory, anti-progressive tax in that it falls far harder on the poor than the well-off.’

That statement may well be true but the article ignores the fact that the ‘poor’ have the equal choice of not smoking, just like those who may have made better decisions in life; not so much a case of pimping the poor but another envious swipe by the haves at those who have more.
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June 3, 2016 8:15am
oldpark

Seems traffic gridlock at Wellingtons Mount Victoria is becoming a cancer on the daily traffic flow around Basin Reserve. The solution was a flyover that would ease the daily gridlock. Sadly a cabal of about 50 self serving ratbags got the help of Labours Annette King ,Grant Robertson, Greens Party’s Genter,and of course not forgetting the Wellington City stagnaters the Wellington City infested with Green/ Liebour Councillors all giving the thumbs up to the decision that the Basin Reserve Flyover would not proceed. Two of the deniers are up for re-election as Mayors in October,go figure that one. Seems they are happy, Wade-Brown , Justin Lester if elected to continue their policies of grid lock Wellington Traffic,to satisfy people like Annette King, Grant Robertson, Genter from Liebour/Green Party’s and a small little cabal of selfish bastards ratepayers from MT Victoria.The solution surely to resolve the traffic gridlock and revisit the Basin Flyover stalemate,is to have a referendum for all Wellington Ratepayers,rather than a few selfish bastards, who up to now are smirking and giving each other daily high fives. That includes King,and Robertson.
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June 3, 2016 8:17am
Albert_Ross

Now we’re pumping that formerly locked-up energy back into the system

But the energy being released isn’t getting “back into the system”. It is prevented from finding its way out beyond Earth’s atmosphere by greenhouse gases.

So while it’s true that the total amount of energy in the universe hasn’t changed, the proportion of it that’s remaining here is increasing.
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June 3, 2016 8:18am
Dennis Horne

The energy is going back into the system and the CO2 resulting is doing what it did before it was extracted: maintaining a higher energy level or warming the system by the greenhouse effect.
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June 3, 2016 8:23am
Rich Prick

This could mean that some of these family’s have something to hide

I’m always suspicious of hard luck sob story participants who won’t reveal their names. I’m guessing they’re afraid of WINZ or IRD reading the stories and catching up with them over their benefits or child support cheats. But lets not let that get in the way of Labour’s support for the same. When your party’s membership is at rock bottom, you’d go after any demographic. Labour really is the rusty 1982 Toyota Corolla struggling for a WOF and a tank of 91 gas.
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June 3, 2016 8:25am
itstricky

Seems traffic gridlock at Wellingtons Mount Victoria is becoming a cancer on

You really relish the art of the hyperbole, don’t you oldpark?
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June 3, 2016 8:26am
Happychappy

After accusing Guards at Serco run Prisons of corruption without naming them and saying Judith Collins just sweeps it under the carpet he then waited twelve hour before giving what information he had to the Corrections Minister.Several people have said over the day why was he a silent voice over the death of Moko and be out campaigning for Justice for Moko or is it that it is not a white person that was implicated in Mokos death.Ifind Kelvin Davis to be much like Hone who liked to grand stand on lies
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June 3, 2016 8:29am
Andrei

Get a grip Dennis Horne – the Greenhouse effect is vital to life on this planet as we know it

So is carbon dioxide which a minute fraction of the earths atmosphere and without which being present life would cease to exist

This issue is completely nuts – something to engage those of little brain in endless rounds of sophistry

We need CO₂ in the atmosphere to survive!

It is neither a pollutant nor a threat
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June 3, 2016 8:32am
stephieboy

Ralph T,

“99% of us have known it for some time..”

Which 99% ?
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June 3, 2016 8:33am
Lance

@Albert_Ross
I think you need to get your energy levels into proportion.
The heat from burning fossil fuels is tiny, infinitesimally small compared to the colossal amount of solar radiation striking the earth.
On average this is 1000 watts per square metre (1500 watts in NZ). So 5 typical house roofs will be bombarded with 1 million watts on a clear day at noon.
This is the energy that can cause us grief under certain circumstances
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June 3, 2016 8:33am
oldpark

Then there is the question ,why is it ,that greater Wellington has always had a deeply entrenched Labour Party MPs who held most of the electorates. Yet it took a National Government to approve the building of Transmission Gully, as well as the new Raumati to Peka Peka freeway. Yet when the whole idea, is to put in a common sense entrance to Wellington and all points North, and ease congestion, from Airport to Levin via Mt Victoria tunnel. and a proposed Basin Reserve flyover, the same Liebour/ Green Party clowns vehemently oppose it. Luckly common sense, by a forward thinking National Government has taken over Labour/Green intransigence ,which seems to infest the Wellington City Council,and the electoral seats of King, and Robertson also in the greater Wellington area. To think that negitave pests like Robertson ,could someday be Prime Minister,of our great country ,would be an abomination.
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June 3, 2016 8:36am
igm

What accommodation have Labour/Greens come to with Slobcrim to fight 2017 election? Time this was investigated as where there is smoke, there is fire!
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June 3, 2016 8:39am
Dennis Horne

@Andrei. I’ll pass on your simple and elegant explanation of the science to the climate scientists. I’m sure they’ll appreciate your finding something they and the Royal Society, US National Academy of Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Sciences, American Physical Society, American Chemical Society and every scientific society and institution on the planet overlooked.
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June 3, 2016 8:40am
SGA

Andrei at 8:32 am

We need CO₂ in the atmosphere to survive!

I find this a bizarre argument, Andrei. We need water too, but floods are dangerous. Even oxygen at sufficient levels can be toxic. As they say, you can have too much of a good thing.
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June 3, 2016 8:45am
All_on_Red

So much for negative feedbacks eh Dennis. As has been pointed out to you many times, the nub of the issue is Climate Sensitivity. How much is ECS and TCS? They don’t know for sure. IPCC AR 5 range 1.5-4.5C
That aside.
What do you propose we do? How much will it cost? What difference will it make to the temperature?
If you are so concerned why aren’t you setting an example yourself? I see you mention you are going flying this weekend, doesn’t that make you a hypocrite?
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June 3, 2016 8:45am
Andrei

Well Dennis Horne – what would happen if some bright spark was able to remove every last molecule of CO₂ from the atmosphere and did it?

Fortunately for us this is not possible
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June 3, 2016 8:46am
Scott

Things are getting worse and worse for Hillary Clinton. Apparently her email was hacked. Who would have thought it? The United States Secretary of State with her private email server in her basement would be the target of hacking? Someone who is privy to state secrets all around the world would be hacked by the likes of China and North Korea and Russia?

It’s not looking good for Hillary Clinton!! This is very bad!

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/06/hillary-hacked.php
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June 3, 2016 8:47am
alloytoo

The language of the revolution is returning?

It’s been three decades since the fall of the Soviet Union, twenty or so years since the fall of apartheid.

Since the fall of communism “evil” neo-liberal policies have served the world well, abject poverty is much reduced and many countries have successfully harnessed capitalism to pay for socially desirable objectives.

Market economies have predictably had a few ups and downs over the years. Economic crashes are, contrary to the belief of some, not a sign that capitalism is broken, but rather that the market is correcting an imbalance. Boom and bust cycles can sometimes by moderated by regulation, so long as the regulations objective is to reduce excesses (risk) and not to defy market forces.

We’ve also have a few countries continue to dabble with socialism and state control with predictable results. (I say predictable because we have almost a century’s worth of soviet economic history to offer by way of example).

These results include:

Depressed economic activity, poor growth and lack of innovation.

Poor environmental protections.

Reduced personal, press and political freedoms.

Eventually these socialists states begin to run out of money, their own economic activity cannot support the follies of the state and overseas funding dries up.

This is when the rhetoric begins, old economic partners are vilified and demonized, conspiracy theories abound and war talk begins, political speeches are less about policy and more about language of warfare. The Revolution is under siege, assault etc and everyone else is to blame.

A key indicator is that these claims lack substantial solutions and that they usually look for someone to blame.

Abroad South Africa’s ruling ANC party is falling back the rhetoric, corruption and mismanagement of infrastructure is taking it’s toll and the brain drain is accelerating. South Africa is a country blessed with vast natural resources. Across the Atlantic Argentina’s socialist dream is disintegrating and no amount of sabre rattling against the UK regarding the Falklands is going to put food on people’s tables.

In New Zealand we are lucky, we have low unemployment, low inflation and moderate but steady economic growth. We have very little abject poverty and the vast majority have (by global standards) a high standard of living. Compared to many nations we get pretty good bang for our tax buck.

Yet, despite our privileged position the Labour party is also resorting to rhetoric and attempts to vilify segments of our population (as is usual among socialists without foundation).

Labour and the Greens have an serious aversion to answering a single simple question about their objectives. That question is Why?

Why close down effective charter schools?

Why change a successful government?

Why indeed?

My question is equally simple.

Why Labour at all? (or the Greens)
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June 3, 2016 8:48am
Griff

So is carbon dioxide which a minute fraction of the earths atmosphere .

We need CO₂ in the atmosphere to survive!

These two contradictory statements shows how much of an idiot you are Andrie .

You can not have it both ways.

The point is we are increasing the greenhouse effect .

We will in a few decades manage to double the amount of co2 in the atmosphere.

The result of that will be very disturbing for our civilization.

“Any society is three square meals away from anarchy”

Our agriculture relies on the consistent climate we have experienced since we first discovered civilization.

This is why those that deny climate change are so focused on disputing the hockey stick .

We ware already outside the parameters we have experienced since we first started farming.

This change is speeding up .
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June 3, 2016 8:54am
peterwn

Supreme Court decision just released over payment of unit title levies for Queen Street commercial premises. Seems the person appealing was doing a ‘Penny Bright’ thing with the levies. A few things came to mind:
1. Four judges heard the appeal and two would allow and two deny, so the appeal was deemed to have failed. Because of this no costs were awarded meaning the other unit title owners had to bear the cost of defending the appeal. Usually there is an odd number of judges and if one of the judges is not available or recused, they ring in a retired Supreme Court judge or an Appeal Court judge. No explanation as to why there were four, not five judges, but perhaps the parties preferred that to a delayed or aborted hearing. There can be six Supreme Court judges appointed (one a rotating spare) but currently there are only five.
2. Penny Bright has exposed the various weaknesses in the Rating Act – The Unit Titles Act seems far worse than the Rating Act. Part of the problem seems to be that while mortgagees’ claims play second fiddle to rates arrears, the Unit Titles Act has a greater respect for claims of mortgagees, probably to minimise any potential chilling effect on mortgagees lending on unit titled properties. Hence anyone purchasing a unit titled property does face some exposure to unpaid levies and associated recovery costs by a delinquent unit title owner.
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June 3, 2016 9:05am
Andrei

Actually Griff higher levels of CO₂ in the air increase plant growth a phenomena use to great effect locally in real greenhouses where not only is the temperature raised but also the CO₂ levels to enhance plant growth and therefore food production
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June 3, 2016 9:05am
Ross12

Given Len’s train set had it’s construction started this this is a timely article ( well maybe a bit late)

http://www.mckinsey.com/industries/infrastructure/our-insights/the-rail-plus-property-model?cid=other-eml-alt-mip-mck-oth-1606
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June 3, 2016 9:10am
Dennis Horne

@Andrei. More advice to pass on to the tens of thousands of scientists working in the field and the millions of other scientists who understand the work being done. From someone who lacks even a schoolboy science understanding…

For heaven’s sake, man, do some learning. You look like a fool.
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June 3, 2016 9:11am
SGA

Andrei at 8:46 am

Well Dennis Horne – what would happen if some bright spark was able to remove every last molecule of CO₂ from the atmosphere and did it?

This is just as bizarre. Who is advocating removing all the CO2 from the atmosphere? It’s like arguing that overeating can’t be bad for you because if you stop eating completely then you’ll starve to death.
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June 3, 2016 9:15am
Griff

CO@ is plant food.

Only if all other nutrients are in surplus.
Moisture and fertilizer levels are also constraints on growth.
When it gets to hot plants die when it gets to dry plants die .
Looking only at the direct effects of co2 on plants ignores climate change .
A neat trick if you like fooling your self ignoring the issue by focusing on something unrelated to the problem.
Unfortunately such stupidity is just that fooling your self
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June 3, 2016 9:15am
stephieboy

All on Red , your gobbledygook not withstanding these basic facts are unalterable ,

“..Greenhouse gases emitted by human activities alter Earth’s energy balance and thus its climate. Humans also affect climate by changing the nature of the land surfaces (for example by clearing forests for farming) and through the emission of pollutants that affect the amount and type of particles in the atmosphere.

Scientists have determined that, when all human and natural factors are considered, Earth’s climate balance has been altered towards warming, with the biggest contributor being increases in CO2…”

https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-evidence-causes/basics-of-climate-change/
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June 3, 2016 9:16am
Hajji

@ Griff

I’m goddamn sick of your endless climate rantings. I don’t give a shit anymore.

And I don’t need my bright and sunny winter Friday crapped on by your Chicken Little fears.
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June 3, 2016 9:21am
stephieboy

Hajji, you obviously have your severe limits on your ability to tolerate debate and differences of opinion ?

Get off the grass !
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June 3, 2016 9:24am
Albert_Ross

I think you need to get your energy levels into proportion.
The heat from burning fossil fuels is tiny, infinitesimally small compared to the colossal amount of solar radiation striking the earth.

It’s also tiny compared to the colossal amount of energy emitted from the earth by natural processes.

But that completely misses the point. The concern is not that burning fossil fuels creates additional heat. It is that it adds carbon dioxide to the atmosphere. That carbon dioxide increases the imperviousness of the atmosphere in one direction, locking in more of the heat which would otherwise escape from the earth. The balance between energy arriving and energy leaving is changed. And it only takes a very very tiny thing to change a balance, no matter how colossal are the forces on each side of that balance.
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June 3, 2016 9:25am
Dennis Horne

@Hajji. If you find debate on Kiwiblog boring or difficult you’re always free to fuck off.
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June 3, 2016 9:25am
igm

Have to travel later so have been listening to radio, becoming disgusted at the continued promotion of left-wing losers every opportunity, including the old hag Clinton, and Labour loser from Dog and Lemon . . . seems Newstalk editorial subs and its minions have been fished from the sewers like the rest of MSM. Can’t wait to see the perpetrators of these pro-left releases looking for work . . . won’t be coming our way.
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June 3, 2016 9:27am
mikenmild

Extra bitter coffee this morning, igm?
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June 3, 2016 9:29am
Griff

Hajji

They are not My fears.
Pretending it is only Griffs fears is how a simple little mind like yours districts from the uncomfortable reality.
They are the fears raised by the scientific community.

http://whatweknow.aaas.org/get-the-facts/

The overwhelming evidence of human-caused climate change documents both current impacts with significant costs and extraordinary future risks to society and natural systems. The scientific community has convened conferences, published reports, spoken out at forums and proclaimed, through statements by virtually every national scientific academy and relevant major scientific organization — including the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) — that climate change puts the well-being of people of all nations at risk.
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June 3, 2016 9:29am
Hajji

“If you find debate on Kiwiblog boring or difficult you’re always free to fuck off.”

Climate debate is boooooorrrrrrriiiiiiing!
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June 3, 2016 9:30am
calendar girl

Woman arrested at Auckland Airport in relation to her outstanding student debt: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11649649 .

The authorities seem to be leaning over backwards to avoid criticism when they pursue defaulting student loan debtors, so this person is likely to be regarded as a particularly bad example. Presumably the details will emerge in due course.

I’m surprised how rarely there are apprehensions at international airports (arrivals or departures) of borrowers who have made little or no effort to repay their debts to the taxpayer.
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June 3, 2016 9:46am
Colville

So I ordered a music player off Ebay
1/4 of NZ price arrived in 6 days from Israel of all places.

I am glad I don’t own a bricks and mortar shop!
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June 3, 2016 9:59am
Stars And Stripes

A 2-year-old girl shot dead in her Mangere home yesterday was a “Daddy’s girl” who loved spending time with her father and his friends.
One neighbour said the family had lived in the house for about six months. “They were notorious for having very rowdy parties.”
Another neighbour said they’d had trouble with their landlord, and had been planning on moving to a new home the same day their little girl was shot dead.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11649450

Yeah the article follows the usual template of tugging at the heartstrings to begin with but then later on gets down to the real situation in the house which when interpreted in plain English means they were ferals.
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June 3, 2016 10:09am
stephieboy

S& R , I suggest we wait until the police complete their investigations rather than neighbourhood goss. There is some evidence that it was an accidental shooting the kind of thing that happens fairly regularly in the gun totting America.
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June 3, 2016 10:20am
Stars And Stripes

Stephieboy Number 1 or 2 or 3- Accidental or not, how many normal families have an unlicensed sawn off shotgun lying around the house?.
Think about and you will come to the same conclusion, they are ferals.
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June 3, 2016 10:24am
Nigel Kearney

There is some evidence that it was an accidental shooting …

Having a sawed-off shotgun and keeping it loaded where a small child could reach it was deliberate. The rest may have been accidental.

No doubt we will have the usual demand for law changes, even though the actions that led to the death have been illegal for decades and the people responsible obviously have no respect for the law anyway.
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June 3, 2016 10:30am
stephieboy

S & R , I await the police findings before jumping to your kind of know it all conclusions !
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June 3, 2016 10:30am
Captain Mainwaring

@sillyboy 10:30
The police findings will be pretty much what Stars & Stipes said but expressed in silly PC police-speak.
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June 3, 2016 10:54am
Colville

Stars and Stripes.

There is no such thing as a licenced firearm in New Zealand. Owners have licences, not the guns.

….

The shotty was sawn off and so its illegal anyways (under minimum length) , if they were moving house as it has been suggested it was probably dug up from the back yard where it had been stashed ..

But still its as sad as all fuck.
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June 3, 2016 10:54am
mikenmild

Hilary Clinton tells some blunt truths abut Donald Trump:

Donald Trump’s ideas aren’t just different; they are dangerously incoherent. They’re not even really ideas, just a series of bizarre rants, personal feuds, and outright lies. He is not just unprepared, he is temperamentally unfit to hold an office that requires knowledge, stability, and immense responsibility. This is not someone who should ever have the nuclear codes, because it’s not hard to imagine Donald Trump leading us into a war just because someone got under his very thin skin.

The general election will be very different from the free pass Trump’s lunacies were given by the GOP candidates.
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June 3, 2016 10:58am
Don the Kiwi

mikenmild (22,195 comments) says:
June 3rd, 2016 at 10:58 am
Hilary Clinton tells some blunt truths abut Donald Trump:

That’s the joke of the week, mikey.

A very oxymoronic statement – Hillary Clinton and the Truth in the same sentence? Surely you jest.

Trump is certainly no paragon of virtue, and I think super hyperbole is his problem. But he certainly does not flirt with and totally contradict the truth like Crooked Hillary does.
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June 3, 2016 11:14am
tom hunter

Mr. Davis’ most interesting claim is his assertion that “there is no evidence that Clinton’s private server was ever successfully hacked… all the dire and dark warnings from partisan Republicans about the secretary of state risking the nation’s security by using a private server are, in fact, all speculation—based on no facts whatsoever.”

This is deception of a special kind. In the first place, why has the Romanian hacker Guccifer pleaded guilty to hacking into Hillary’s server if he did not, in fact, do so? Moreover, the FBI has been in possession of said server for months, and they have uncovered several successful hacking efforts into it when it resided in an upstairs bathroom of the Clinton residence in Chappaqua, New York.

“We know it was hacked numerous times, it’s that simple,” explained a senior U.S. counterintelligence official who is privy some of the FBI’s findings. “If I were Vladimir Putin I’d fire the head of the SVR [Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service] if he didn’t get a good look at Hillary’s emails when they were sitting in plain sight online,” he added with a laugh.

The general election will be very different from the free pass Hillary’s paranoid stupidities were given by the Democrat candidates.
🙂
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June 3, 2016 11:15am
mikenmild

Just for you Donny, a few of Trump’s outright lies:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/4834/trumps-101-lies-hank-berrien
To be fair to Trump, I think he believes what he says when he says it. The fact that it could be a total untruth or directly contradict something he gas said previously is of no concern to him. He knows that his target audience doesn’t care.
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June 3, 2016 11:19am
tom hunter

Anybody acting as a booster for Hillary Clinton this year should be basing their support on something other than the “liar, liar, pants on fire” approach.
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June 3, 2016 11:22am
Scott

Here is an excellent and fair-minded article on Donald Trump and his policies. Among the highlights – America should pursue its own interests in foreign affairs and not some misguided idea of imposing democracy on countries that have never been democratic. That free trade is not free and China has tilted world trade in its favour and that’s why China is winning and America is losing.

Well worth the read for those who seriously want to understand Trump’s ideas.

http://journalofamericangreatness.blogspot.co.nz/2016/04/trump-as-critic-need-for-greatness.html
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June 3, 2016 11:23am
mikenmild

Actually, it would be harder, and perhaps more revealing, to find 101 Trump statement that were true.
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June 3, 2016 11:26am
tom hunter

That free trade is not free and China has tilted world trade in its favour and that’s why China is winning and America is losing.

Which is what Trump was saying about Japan in the early 1990’s. It was the Common Wisdom.

The CW and Trump was wrong then, and it’s wrong now, and if he took a hard look at China’s economy he’d see that they’ve got some very big problems, ones that have been festering for years. It’s not quite like Japan – the Chinese leadership is well aware of that example – but avoiding the same problems is going to be a big ask.

But politically this may be a winner when you’ve got a strong Democrat contender saying much the same thing.
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June 3, 2016 11:27am
Dennis Horne

Dangerous to take on the flat earthers … they got friends all round the globe!
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June 3, 2016 11:28am
Maggy Wassilieff

There is some evidence that it was an accidental shooting …

Stephieboy please take some time reviewing NZ’s Arms code
http://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/the-arms-code-2013.pdf

and The Arms Act
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1983/0044/latest/whole.html#DLM72921

Then you may realise that there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that the shooting of a 2 year-old child in a house is an accident.
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June 3, 2016 11:40am
Captain Mainwaring

Another John Key failure. He must be ashamed of himself.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/80708950/woman-sleeping-in-car-after-dunedin-city-council-failed-to-discover-leaking-mains-pipe
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June 3, 2016 11:55am
All_on_Red

Stephie re your 9:16
Just the other day I mentioned my son had done a project on deforestation changing the local climate and I’ve commented many times that I believe the planet is warming.
Apart from that – fuck you are thick
Best
AOR
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June 3, 2016 12:03pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Did anyone ever visit “Scout”?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/80713087/mediaworks-close-gossip-website-scout
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June 3, 2016 12:07pm
stephieboy

All On Red, charmed I’m sure !

Still trying to get me head around an avowed Trumpist and self confessed AGW warming supporter !

Maggy Wassilieff , thank you . You seem to have all the evidence facts at hand that the police or I don’t .

A sleuth like you might consider assisting them with their ongoing investigations
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June 3, 2016 12:08pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Stephieboy

these are the facts as I see them

a firearm needs to be legally owned
a firearm needs to be loaded to kill a person
a firearm needs to be pointed at a person (or at least discharged where a ricochet occurs) for a death to occur
a trigger needs to be pulled.

What is accidental about the above 4 actions?
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June 3, 2016 12:19pm
Captain Mainwaring

From Stuff:

“Latest student loan arrest means overseas Kiwis are “terrified” and “at their wit’s end”.”

And so they bloody well should be.
Just pay what you owe. Or do you think that I, the ever-suffering taxpayer, should cough up?
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June 3, 2016 12:26pm
stephieboy

Maggy Wassilieff , did Moko’s dad intentionally kill him ? Plenty examples of loaded gun accidents in say the US .

I much prefer waiting for police findings and whether there could be a prosecution for e.g careless discharge of a gun , manslaughter or murder etc !
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June 3, 2016 12:42pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Stephieboy

clearly you have not read the material I asked you to read…. you would discover that the holder of a firearm has responsibilities to ensure that the firearm is legal; that it is not loaded until the target to be shot is in sight; that it is never left unattended if loaded; that it is never pointed at a person (loaded or unloaded); etc,etc,

Again I refer you to laws and guidelines of NZ……. nothing to do with USA.

Obey the Arms act to the letter and follow the 7 guidelines for safe use of firearms and innocent children will not be shot.
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June 3, 2016 12:50pm
Dennis Horne

Maggy Wassilieff: your argument about shooting not being accidental … you’re drawing a long bow!

Obey the road rules to the letter there would be no accidents…
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June 3, 2016 12:53pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Dennis Horne

Of course, my mistake… quite ok to discharge a loaded shotgun in the vicinity of toddlers…
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June 3, 2016 12:59pm
Stars And Stripes

Stephieboy-“Did Moko’s dad intentionally kill him”

Whoever you are can you please get the real Stephieboy to proof read the posts as they make no sense.
Moko’s dad did not kill him fullstop as he was never there, that’s actually why there is a separate thread on here today called “Where was the father”.
The killer was some drop kick care giver/babysitter.
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June 3, 2016 1:00pm
Kimbo

@ Captain Mainwaring

The police findings will be pretty much what Stars & Stipes said but expressed in silly PC police-speak.

And based on recent precedent the Crown Solicitor will then plea-bargain the charge down to something like careless use of a firearm.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11648926
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June 3, 2016 1:01pm
Kimbo

@ Maggy Wassilieff

Of course, my mistake… quite ok to discharge a loaded shotgun in the vicinity of toddlers…

Mistaken yet again, Maggie. You are not having a good day. // Not just any loaded shotgun, but one that was sawn-off, so it therefore has only one (nefarious) purpose.
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June 3, 2016 1:05pm
Johnboy

“Obey the road rules to the letter there would be no accidents…”

Fill the tanks and check the fuel system there would be no forced landings on beaches! 🙂
18 1
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June 3, 2016 1:11pm
Dennis Horne

Maggy. Owning firearms with appropriate licences and endorsements is legal; accidents happen.

Possessing a firearm without a licence and possessing a sawn-off shotgun etc etc is illegal. Accidents cannot happen… (Really!)
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June 3, 2016 1:12pm
stephieboy

Maggy Wassilieff, as per poster above and so you can be in a possession of a gun and if illegally owned or procured means an accident never can happen ?

Trying to get my head around that one . Assist me if you can ?

Or shall we await the outcome of the police investigation ?
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June 3, 2016 1:18pm
Happychappy

The deluded Penny Bright on the Standard saying their is no proof of houses being contaminated with P.ThisExcuse for a human being has said she asked for proof from QIA and how many houses there are and is awaiting his reply,
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June 3, 2016 1:55pm
lofty

awww Kimbo bro..the gun was for pighunting ow.

It was sawed off so it dont get caught in the scrub ow.
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June 3, 2016 1:58pm
Kimbo

@ lofty

awww Kimbo bro..the gun was for pighunting ow.

It was sawed off so it dont get caught in the scrub ow.

Ehoa! Real fullas hunt pigs with only knives and dogs, cuz! Liquor stores on the other hand…
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June 3, 2016 2:01pm
itstricky

Whether the gun was legal or not, who cares, it’s an accident.

The overwhelming sentiment seems to be they were federal, gun was illegal, tough shit. You lot are a federal bunch yourselves sometimes. Stick your silly little preconceptions about people you don’t care for, and will never know where the sun don’t shine and be sad for a young life cut short. Someone who probably cared more for whether she had toast or porridge that morning, not whether the Arms code would define her death to be an accident.
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June 3, 2016 2:10pm
mikenmild

No one knows how many houses are actually contaminated from P manufacture. There are no agreed standards for testing, so results can swing wildly. One company may report a houses as ‘contaminated’ when all that has happened is that methamphetamine has been smoked there.
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June 3, 2016 2:10pm
itstricky

Special mention for.lofty. In case you missed it lofty, a little girl died. A family lost her. Whether that family fit your shitty little stereotype or not, take a leap backwards and am yourself “what if it happened to me?”. Because it could. In a split second,. And who would be the people making stereotype jokes at your expense? Muppet. No actually, that’s too kind because I like The Muppets.
1 20
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June 3, 2016 2:14pm
Jack5

National has given a $10.6 million boost to Maori TV, reports Drinnan in the Hooerald.

What’s the right word for this. “Koha” for gift sounds not quite right. Perhaps “tāwai”, which an online dictionary tells me is Maori for blackmail. That would be blackmail or brownmail by the 2 per cent Maori Party.

The coalition politics that MMP has brought us corrupts, and it’s undemocratic in the power it gives to small minorities to hold the majority to ransom.

Drinnan is interesting also on the Government standing firm on financing Radio New Zealand, which is hellbent on transforming itself into an internet news service.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/best-of-business-analysis/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501241&objectid=11649622
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June 3, 2016 2:18pm
Johnboy

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/80681016/hut-moved-by-helicopter-in-mt-richmond-forest-park-in-marlborough

$771million well spent by Helens mob I say!!! 🙂
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June 3, 2016 2:34pm
Jack5

Morning Griff. Time to spoil your day and to wind up all cannabis lovers ….

Research based on an NZ study – the famous monitoring of 1037 people born in Dunedin in 1972-1973 – shows how, among other things, our versifying dentist, Dennis Horne, if he had known, might have been able to tell which of his patients were airheads (cannabis users).

This also from the Stuff report of the findings:

Cannabis dependence is often thought to occur alongside dependence on other substances such as alcohol or hard drugs, and the study supported this.

“Dunedin Study members who were dependent on cannabis were more likely during the course of their lives to be dependent on alcohol.”

They were also more likely to be dependent on “hard drugs”.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/80711334/gum-disease-the-main-physical-health-problem-related-to-cannabis-study
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June 3, 2016 2:35pm
Johnboy

Shit. Here’s Johnboy hardly ever smoked a joint all his life and drinks like a fish….The exception that proves the rule! 🙂
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June 3, 2016 2:38pm
Scott Chris

Don the Kiwi (2,476 comments) says:
June 3rd, 2016 at 11:14 am
Hillary Clinton and the Truth in the same sentence? Surely you jest.

So off the top of your head Donkey Wee, what’s Hillary Clinton lied about?
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June 3, 2016 2:41pm
RalphT

At 8.07 I posted a link to a story about the BBC’s head of religious broadcasting saying that it is wrong to suggest that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam and added a comment that this was something that 99% of us had known for some time. At 8.33 the stephieboy working the morning shift (I think the one who professes to be a Christian, though later comments seem to be made by one of the Muslim ones) wanted to know which 99%.

I should apologise for my use of exaggeration to make a cheap point.

I note that as of 2.30, 24 followers of Kiwiblog, intelligent folk who can truly be said to be a fair representation of society, had given my comment a tick of approval, with no one giving it the thumbs down. In contrast stephieboy’s comment got 1 uptick and 15 downs.

All I can do is repeat my apology; I should of course have said it is what 95% of us know.
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June 3, 2016 2:43pm
Scott Chris

Re guns; a few months back a lawyer I know went overseas. He left his 303 and shotgun under his bed. His house was broken into while he was away. Fortunately the cops caught the perps because when weapons are stolen they go all out.

Lucky for him one of his many grand-children who played in his house while he was away didn’t find the guns or if they did, they weren’t loaded. Mind you I’m sure if he had accidentally left a cartridge in the chamber an a kid died society would be a bit sympathetic towards him. Eh bros?
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June 3, 2016 2:50pm
Stars And Stripes

Itstricky- read your two little outbursts and seems like you are a wee bit upset.
I can only suggest either taking flowers round to the house or bursting into tears on talkback as therapy for you at his time.
You will forget about this one when the next kid dies in a couple of weeks time.
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June 3, 2016 2:53pm
Scott Chris

Johnboy (20,047 comments) says:
June 3rd, 2016 at 2:38 pm
Shit. Here’s Johnboy hardly ever smoked a joint

Bet you’ve smoked a fish or two. Never was a fan of smoked mutton though.
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June 3, 2016 2:54pm
blazeoflight

Caption contest, anyone?

https://mobile.twitter.com/MasseyUni/status/738561394296000512
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June 3, 2016 2:56pm
blazeoflight

DPF thinks we shouldn’t lie to the police.

But it’s fine when his PM does it to us, isn’t it? #fanboy

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80725620/salvation-army-msd-homeless-visits-didnt-happen-and-the-pms-wrong
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June 3, 2016 2:57pm
tom hunter

Scott Chris (7,727 comments) says:
June 3rd, 2016 at 2:41 pm
…
So off the top of your head Donkey Wee, what’s Hillary Clinton lied about?

Seriously?

Here’s well-known, RWNJ news program MSNBC dealing to her lies about her email clusterfuck. The people around that table – even including former GOP Congressman, Joe Scarborough, – have a solid history of sticking it to Republicans and glossing over Democrats problems.

As such I’m not sure if all the sighing indicates that they’re disappointed about her lies or her clunking inability to lie as well as husband Bill could.
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June 3, 2016 3:04pm
Kimbo

@ Scott Chris

Mind you I’m sure if he had accidentally left a cartridge in the chamber an a kid died society would be a bit sympathetic towards him. Eh bros?

No.
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June 3, 2016 3:06pm
stephieboy

tom hunter, so we can safely say many Democrats and Republican politicians ( not only Clinton and Trump ) have fallen short of entering the kingdom ?
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June 3, 2016 3:13pm
Scott Chris

Let’s try this analogy. Remember the poor Doctor who left her child in a car at the height of summer. The child died. God I felt sorry for that woman.

Now let’s imagine that mother was a Mongrel Mob affiliate. Would give Lofty an Kimbo all kinds of licence for insipid racism eh bros.
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June 3, 2016 3:13pm
Scott Chris

tom hunter (7,024 comments) says:
June 3rd, 2016 at 3:04 pm

Seriously?

I wasn’t talking to you tom and you missed my point. My assertion is that Donkey Wee doesn’t know why Hillary Clinton is an alleged liar, he’s just heard that allegation so many times it slides easily into his dimwitted narrative.
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June 3, 2016 3:19pm
Stars And Stripes

Scenario is impossible Scott Chris.
If women was a mongrel mob associate it could only be possible if the car was parked outside the WINZ office.
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June 3, 2016 3:21pm
Nermal

@hajji 9:21
I have to agree with you. I was enjoying general debate apart from the continuous circle jerk of the AGW/Deniers.
It’s too nice a day to get RSI scrolling past the usual crap. I was starting to feel so desperate for something interesting I almost found myself hoping for some Penny Bright or Hugh Pavlitich. Almost!
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June 3, 2016 3:22pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@stephieboy

shall we await the outcome of the police investigation

I’m more than happy to await the police investigation… remember it was you that posted on KB General Debate…10:20am
that there was some evidence that it was an accidental shooting….

so what is that evidence?…….. and how do you know?
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June 3, 2016 3:24pm

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