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June 17, 2016 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 17 June 2016

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Jack5

One of the notorious Ingham girls has appeared in court in New Zealand.

The twins were smuggled away in a ship by Malaysian seamen in the 1990s, and were famously supposed to have gone overboard from the ship off the coast of Australia and got ashore through miles of croc-infested waters.

Wild girls. All a bit sad, really.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/81092410/infamous-ingham-twin-appears-in-lower-hutt-courtroom
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June 17, 2016 5:28pm
stephieboy

jack 5,

“Stephieboy” is actually a team. That’s apparent from the varying standards of English in the posts. Some days quite literate, others Peter Sellers-ish, and on still others almost jumbled.’

Multiple identities yet gain ?

Keep whipping up the paranoia !
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June 17, 2016 5:29pm
jonar

@Jack5

Do the Leftists really hate Christians more than they hate Islamic extremists?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Syria
Of the Syrian population, 74%[2] were Sunnis (including Sufis[3]), whereas 13%[2] were Shias (including 8.0% Alawites from which about 2% are called Mershdis and they are the followers of Sulayman al-Murshid, 3% Twelvers , or 1% Ismailis ), 3%[2] were Druze, while the remaining 10%[2] were Christians.
…
A striking feature of religious life in Syria is the geographic distribution of the religious minorities. Most Christians live in Damascus, Aleppo, Homs, and other large cities along with significant numbers in Al-Hasakah Governorate in northeastern Syria, Tartus and Latakia.

Didn’t Damacus, Aleppo and Homs get hammered early on? Most Christians probably left early in the conflict.
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June 17, 2016 5:36pm
Longknives

Good God the Ingham Twins are back in the news!
Fame whores like Naz and What’s-his-name from The Bachelor NZ can only dream of that level of celebrity…
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June 17, 2016 6:09pm
sam green

“Keep whipping up the paranoia !”

I imagine that’s not all Jack5 is whipping up.
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June 17, 2016 6:25pm
Happychappy

I just watched the pimp the poor segment on the Hub about family’s living in cars and the people that were there to protest about it.Now i am not a racist and my son in law is a Maori but all the family’s that were interviewed were either IsLanders or Maori with large family’s so who is getting rich off the treaty settlements and why is it not getting to the bottom of the tribes.It never ceases to amaze that there are not a lot of white people protesting with this group unless you are David Cunliffe wanting to prove he is a man.
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June 17, 2016 6:31pm
itstricky

What? Treaty settlements; homeless people; Islanders? Sorry, I just don’t understand what you are saying.
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June 17, 2016 6:40pm
nasska

Happychappy

Not a dollar from the payouts or a fish finger from the settlements will ever reach the urban poor. The money has been paid out to the greedy, grasping Maori elite who stayed close to their tribal lands when the drift to the cities occurred in the 50s & 60s.

Maoridom is tribal & hierarchal …..no tribe & not of the right caste = no money.
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June 17, 2016 6:40pm
itstricky

It never ceases to amaze that there are not a lot of white people protesting with this group

I’m sure it has nothing to do with the protest being in Mangere the main ethnic groups of Mangere, organised by a (Pacific) politician of the area. Nothing at all. Not a smidgeon.
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June 17, 2016 6:46pm
waikatogirl

jonar
The report, looking at the benefits of the 90 day trial, has found no evidence it increased firms’ hiring – or helped disadvantaged jobseekers.
***

Employers have successfully been employing staff encouraged in the knowledge they have 3 months to assess a new staff member. I know because we are one of them.

The report seems to be saying ‘disadvantaged’ job seeker numbers have not increased. Apparently that is employers are avoiding employing potential staff through Winz, so therefore the report says the whole scheme has been unsuccessful.
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June 17, 2016 7:01pm
Scott Chris

David Garrett (10,726 comments) says:
June 17th, 2016 at 7:09 pm
There are no “Muslim Kiwis” there are only Muslims who live in New Zealand

Pasted from another thread. Does this sit well with the GD crowd? Comments would be more informative than ticks.
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June 17, 2016 7:28pm
Gabby

You sure about that, crappyflappytrappychappy? Not being a raciss ‘n ‘at?
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June 17, 2016 7:37pm
Johnboy

“There are no “Muslim Kiwis” there are only Muslims who live in New Zealand”

There are no Maori Kiwi’s here only Maori who think they live in Aotearoa? 🙂
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June 17, 2016 7:47pm
Johnboy

Thanks minus. In a world full of worry, doubt and uncertainty you are the rock I can always depend upon! 🙂
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June 17, 2016 7:53pm
stigie

As Paul Henry said this morning about these bloody wowsers parked up with the other people that sleep in their cars,
Why dont some of these people be more useful and help them out like inviting them into their homes or can i do some washing for you to help you out rather than park up and spend the bloody night with them in a car park…?

They are not helping these buggers out by parking up…I reckon they are bloody selfish !~
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June 17, 2016 7:58pm
nasska

How’s life on the Goldcard panning out JB? Still riding the rails? 🙂
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June 17, 2016 8:00pm
Johnboy

Some of the wimmin involved in the protest look like they would welcome a young chap into their homes to assist them with domestic stuff stigie old chap! 🙂
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June 17, 2016 8:01pm
nasska

Scott Chris

…..”There are no “Muslim Kiwis” there are only Muslims who live in New Zealand”…..

That’s what you get when you accept immigrants who have no concept nor intention of assimilating with the norms of their new country.
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June 17, 2016 8:05pm
Johnboy

Bill English’s a fucking good bloke nasska, pays me and the wife every fortnight for doing bugger all! 🙂

Still haven’t really used the Winston card after 18 months….Haven’t been on a bus for 40 years….see little point in it now while I can still afford to gas the V8! 🙂
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June 17, 2016 8:05pm
Captain Mainwaring

“jonar (354 comments) says:
June 17th, 2016 at 4:33 pm
Was waiting for DPF to blog on this but I’m guessing he won’t.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/90-day-trial-period-fails-help-jobseekers-report

The report, looking at the benefits of the 90 day trial, has found no evidence it increased firms’ hiring – or helped disadvantaged jobseekers.”
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

jonar old chap:
This apparently came from a very narrow piece of research commissioned by Treasury (who recently seem to be on a mission to discredit the Government), but all the reports from those who are actually employees or employers at the margins seem to be telling a very different story.
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June 17, 2016 8:06pm
Viking2

Well, well, surprise, surprise.

Didn’t take the new Muslim Mayor of London long to start the censorship going.

Starting next month, Transport for London will not allow ads that cause pressure to conform to “unrealistic or unhealthy body shape,” London Mayor Sadiq Khan said in a statement.

“As the father of two teenage girls, I am extremely concerned about this kind of advertising which can demean people, particularly women, and make them ashamed of their bodies,” Khan said. “It is high time it came to an end.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11656551
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June 17, 2016 8:06pm
Johnboy

He obviously has fugley daughters V2! 🙂
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June 17, 2016 8:08pm
nasska

Courtesy of a few impoverished Arabs travel should be cheaper for us poor old diggers JB. 🙂
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June 17, 2016 8:09pm
Johnboy

Why is my 8:01 being moderated????….What have I done to be so discriminated against???

I haven’t turned Muslim or Catholic or anything like that! 🙂
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June 17, 2016 8:11pm
Captain Mainwaring

1,050 reasons to never stick your meds in the wrong orifice.
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June 17, 2016 8:14pm
stigie

“I haven’t turned Muslim or Catholic or anything like that!”

Fucking sheep hasn’t been mentioned as yet….Bloody mystery JB !~
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June 17, 2016 8:17pm
Johnboy

That’s not illegal surely stigie?

Both NZ and our larger colony to the west were based on fucking sheep! 🙂
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June 17, 2016 8:19pm
nasska

It could be said that NZ rode the sheep’s back to prosperity & riches. 🙂
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June 17, 2016 8:22pm
Johnboy

I still do that nasska….a great believer in tradition is Johnboy! 🙂
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June 17, 2016 8:29pm
nasska

Good to hear JB. But the great news is that at El Rancho Nasska we beg to offer gentlemen of distinction the favours of the prettiest of last years virgin Romney crosses.

All major credit cards accepted. Pensioner rates on presentation of a valid Goldcard. 🙂
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June 17, 2016 8:40pm
Johnboy

If you have resident Paramedics trained in CPR count me in nasska! 🙂
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June 17, 2016 8:41pm
jonar

@Captain Mainwaring
This apparently came from a very narrow piece of research commissioned by Treasury (who recently seem to be on a mission to discredit the Government), but all the reports from those who are actually employees or employers at the margins seem to be telling a very different story.

Here’s the issue though
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/306651/govt-changes-tune-on-90-day-trial-policy

Mr Woodhouse’s statements today contradict what the government told the public in 2008.

In a media release titled “90-day trial period to provide job opportunities”, then-Labour Minister Kate Wilkinson said the policy would “provide confidence for employers engaging new staff” and allow “struggling job-seekers to get their foot in the door, rather than languish on a benefit”.
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June 17, 2016 9:01pm
Gabby

You can’t pull the wool over Woodlouse’s eyes, Cap’n Wankstaining – he knows anecdotal evidence outweighs ackshle numbers. Anyway, what the gumming said the legislation was for – wasn’t. Just kidding around.
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June 17, 2016 9:02pm
Awww C-mon

Good Evening Gabby, how was your day in John Keys Neo-liberal wasteland?

Find enough coin for your sherry, a roof over your drunken head? Enough $$ for wifi in the SB payment?? The community nurses looking after you alright?

What not sit back with a big mug of shut the fuck up?
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June 17, 2016 9:06pm
Captain Mainwaring

1,054 reasons to take very good notice of what Awww C-mon just said.
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June 17, 2016 9:16pm
mikenmild

Seems to be a bit of a trend for the government dismissing advice from the Treasury. Yesterday, we had Gerry Brownlee saying they could be ignored because they aren’t politicians.
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June 17, 2016 9:32pm
Awww C-mon

You worried all your hard-work is going to waste MM?

oh wait….
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June 17, 2016 9:36pm
Captain Mainwaring

Quite right milky, Treasury seems to have not moved with the times in that they still think they have lefty masters. Like many other institutions in the public sector they probably haven’t noticed that they need to march to the beat of a different drum.
The other thing is that the Government is accountable for the result. Treasury can say whatever they like then hide under their desks like the invisible beings they are.
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June 17, 2016 9:39pm
stephieboy

nasska (16,432 comments) says:
June 17th, 2016 at 8:05 pm

And what evidence do have that Muslims don’t choose to assimilate except according to your twisted idea of what assimilation might mean ?
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June 17, 2016 9:39pm
Jack5

Maorification of NZ state education continues steadily under National’s Education Minister Hekia Parata.

Look at the teaching at Invercargill Middle, a state school in pale white Southland… dual teaching in Maori and English, a whanau-based approach known as “ako”, and the teacher believes in the philosophy of tuakana teina, some students taught to read and write Maori in one term….

I wonder how the school compares in arithmetic and English and social studies.

Many Southland officials at the moment are bowing to the mantra of multiculturalism.

I wonder how Invercargill Middle will cope when it tries to include English, Maori, Chinese, Hindi, Samoan, Arabic, Persian into the multicultural syllabus.

Won’t be any time at all for English and arithmetic.

The choice of this school for a prize says a lot about Australian and NZ educators. Still, Japan’s primary school teachers for long have been famous for being communist, but that hasn’t buggered up that country.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/81148249/invercargill-middle-school-teacher-katie-pennicott-wins-2016-asg-neita-inspirational-educator-regional-award
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June 17, 2016 10:11pm
sam green

Educationalist are you Jack5?
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June 17, 2016 10:57pm
Jack5

Sam Green: so you think that members of the NZ teachers’ union are ominiscient, do you Sam?
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June 17, 2016 11:01pm
sam green

Big leap dude.

Are you an educator in any way?
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June 17, 2016 11:02pm
Longknives

Jack5 – My mate is thinking about removing his three year old Daughter from her Daycare as she speaks almost as much Maori as she does English!
Final straw was when he and his wife were told that their attendance at ‘Matariki celebrations’ was compulsory!!
What the actual fuck are ‘Matariki Celebrations’??
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June 17, 2016 11:07pm
sam green

Thinking conceptually in two languages. Wow! Great start to the world. Read the studies boys! Read the studies.
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June 17, 2016 11:11pm
sam green

Further thought – What the actual fuck is Halloween?
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June 17, 2016 11:14pm
Scott Chris

Longknives (6,299 comments) says:
June 17th, 2016 at 11:07 pm
Jack5 – My mate is thinking about removing his three year old Daughter from her Daycare as she speaks almost as much Maori as she does English!
Final straw was when he and his wife were told that their attendance at ‘Matariki celebrations’ was compulsory!!
What the actual fuck are ‘Matariki Celebrations’??

So learning an alternative and yet minor part of your Kiwi culture is difficult for your friend? Have they passed the Kiwi acceptance exams yet do you think? You know, the ones set by us bleeding heart liberals?

I know you’re a pommy immigrant longknives. I love english culture but not your kind.
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June 17, 2016 11:21pm
Longknives

Ha Ha- When was ‘Matariki’ invented? About ten years ago from memory??
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June 17, 2016 11:29pm
Jack5

Sam Green: yes two languages are better than one. Three or four are better still. But compulsory Maori? Why a dying language spoken on a daily basis by an ever shrinking number of people and with no overseas use, with virtually no written literature heritage. Maori offers no benefits for helping learn English (as say, Latin, French, German, even Dutch offer). It offers no associated “step-off value” linking to similar languages, with the eception of relatively tiny Tongan, Samoan, Cook Islands Maori, Niuean, Tahitian, and little-spoken Hawaiian.

New Zealanders by luck are born native speakers of Engllish, the world’s current lingua franca and language of world business and world popular culture. The emphasis in education must remain on English.

Maori language is a useful cultural digression, but as I see it the push for Maori language learning is a front for a greater Maorification of NZ society. It entails “whanau” and different teaching concepts, as the newspaper report linked to earlier shows. That would be fine if New Zealand as a whole wanted to become more “Maori” in culture, but there’s no discussion of this except by the “prog’s” and Maori activists and liberals (in the American sense of the word). It looks to be that what is happening is Maorification of education almost by stealth.

This is being done for resurgent Maori identity purposes, not for any proven economic or other benefits for the country. Sometime it is hinted that leaning our state education system more to Maori ways might help reduce the high incidence of Maori crime and poverty. However, existing Maori education doesn’t seem to have a record of helping with this.

One question I wonder about is why, when Maori activists are pushing so hard for diversity by race in politics (keeping Maori political seats and obtaining reserved Maori seats on local bodies) they aren’t also pushing for separation in education. Do they want one system in education – one Maorified system for all?
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June 17, 2016 11:29pm
Scott Chris

;Longknives (6,300 comments) says:
June 17th, 2016 at 11:29 pm
Ha Ha When was ‘Matariki’ invented? About ten years ago from memory??

Get in a canoe and try to find out. Really. It would be a net gain for the rest of us.
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June 17, 2016 11:32pm
Jack5

Ho, ho. Sam Green asks where Halloween comes from.

I think it’s Irish, from ancient Celtic, Sam. So it’s okay. It’s only Christian stuff that’s going into the rubbish tin.
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June 17, 2016 11:44pm
sam green

Hey Jack5. I would really like to answer this in a better way than I can right now but my eyes are closing and it’s time for bed. Thanks for commenting with thought though.
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June 17, 2016 11:50pm
sam green

Oh. That point about Matariki being only 10 years old. Come on boys.
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June 17, 2016 11:52pm
Jack5

Good night Sam.

It’s nice to be able to chat about something other than Islam.

The Stephie team is home tucking into the Ramadan end-of-day nosh.

They will be on that routine until about July 5.
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June 17, 2016 11:53pm
starboard

“Matariki”

*Ppfftt, snigger snort*…is there money involved ? What a crock.
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June 18, 2016 12:27am
Scott Chris

sam green (650 comments) says:
June 17th, 2016 at 11:52 pm
Oh. That point about Matariki being only 10 years old. Come on boys.

I am trying to think of an equivalent. In terms of how you get to the Cook Islands to Aotearoa and back again based on anything other than sophisticated stellar naviagion….. Nice odds.
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June 18, 2016 12:52am
starboard

Aotearoa lol..stop being a wanker..we are still ‘New Zealand’ grottchris, and always will be. Muh.
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June 18, 2016 1:04am
Jack5

Scott Chris at 12.52 talks of “sophisticated stellar navigation”.

This is an interesting topic. There are several ancient methods of using stars to navigate. How deeply Maori used stellar navigation in their Pacific voyaging is an interesting question. One aspect is, if Maori did used stellar navigation, why and how had they lost this technique by the time Westerners arrived?

If they did have “sophisticated stellar navigation” this would require measurement of the angle between the horizon and the the star or sun. How did Maori measure these angles? With what aid? Why was this knowledge and its angle-measuring device lost.

The Encyclopedia of New Zealand has an interesting article on Polynesian canoe navigation. It seems to suggest that Polynesians memorised star compasses and quite a wide knowledge of star knowledge then used this. A big job without a written language.

The article includes:

Seven to 12 stars were sufficient for one night’s navigation, and the moon and bright planets such as Kōpō (Venus) and Pareārau (Jupiter) were also useful. At daybreak, navigators noted the position of the canoe in relation to the rising sun. As the sun got higher in the sky, they looked to where it would set in the evening.

When skies were too overcast for navigators to use the sun, the moon, planets or stars, their course could be gauged according to ocean swells. In the Pacific, prevailing north and south-easterly trade winds pushed up swells that remained constant for long periods. Navigators kept their canoes at the same angle to these swells.

This navigation required the Polynesian voyagers to know an awful lot of detail about stars for navigation, and much of the knowledge would be localised to various island groups. For exploration voyages, they would have lacked quite a bit of necessary star knowledge.

However, if Maori star lore and expertise was so deep and so important, why would it have been lost before European explorers arrived?

From the time of the great European voyagers that began four or more centuries ago, Western navigation knowledge soon surpassed that of Polynesians. In fact researchers seem to have had a big job finding a Micronesian with knowledge of a “star compass”.

That’s not to take anything away from the great voyages Polynesians obviously made as they spread from the ancestral homeland of indigenous Taiwan tribes.
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June 18, 2016 1:15am
Scott Chris

Bruce Springsteen – Born to Run. Well worth a revisit, among America’s finest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxuThNgl3YA
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June 18, 2016 3:55am
Manolo

The bending over continues:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/06/17/homeland-security-report-calls-for-rejecting-terms-jihad-sharia.html?intcmp=hpbt2

A new Department of Homeland Security report urges rejecting use of Islamic terms such as “jihad” and “sharia” in programs aimed at countering terrorist radicalization among American youth.
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June 18, 2016 4:59am

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