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April 7, 2016 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 7 April 2016

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General Debate

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Keeping Stock

Where is everyone?

I guess we shouldn’t be surprised that FIFA’s “new era” under the leadership of Gianni Infantino is off to a rocky start. Is there anyone in football who is not involved in dodgy dealings?

http://in.reuters.com/article/panama-tax-uefa-idINKCN0X32FI
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April 7, 2016 8:05am
oldpark

Every time i hear or read about two mouthpieces from Wellington City Council attempting to be the Mayor at the next election, i cringe. Wade-Brown and Justin Lester ,with their comments on what they would do to improve the city. Both of them have virtually destroyed the city with at least two stupid decisions. Both of them say they would keep beggars in the city. Well they would say that, after all they danced a tune to the professional legal beggars from Mount Victoria ,when they begged for a veto for the Basin Reserve Flyover,both mentioned obliged. To keep the other type of beggar in Wellington,the paper cup beggars,both will also oblige. Maybe because both mentioned mayoral candidates are really beggars on horseback,and if either is elected they will drive Wellington further into the ground ,with their sicko politically correct Liebour/Green agendas.
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April 7, 2016 8:10am
igm

oldpark: Join the call for ratepayers only, voting in local body elections and your problem will be solved. No ratepayer in his/her right mind would vote for anyone remotely linked to Labour/Green leeches.
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April 7, 2016 8:13am
Manolo

The queen has had enough:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/hillary-clinton-has-had-enough-of-bernie-sanders-221495
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April 7, 2016 8:13am
Manolo

Interesting article: http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-coming-democratic-rift/article/2001859

The Democratic party has had its own reckoning this year. The electoral street fight between Donald Trump and conservatives has obscured the fact that young Democrats are choosing a 74-year-old democratic socialist with few elected allies to represent their party’s future.

It’s a development that has impeded Hillary Clinton’s push for the presidential nomination, yes — but its true meaning and full consequences are likely to manifest only after the current election has passed.
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April 7, 2016 8:16am
Happychappy

I wonder if Grant Robertson or Andrew Little will go into bat for the professional beggers on Auckland and Wellington Streets after both Councils have indicated that they will ban the practice.You would have to think it would be upseting for Grant Robertson’s future work plan as he is still regretting his failure to galvanise his UBI Policy.Andrew Little will be pissed that the union is not being seen to protect these valuable jobs and will probably be having another of his childish rants
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April 7, 2016 8:16am
Nukuleka

I have had the misfortune of having to drive into the Christchurch CBD several times of late and it is clear that the traffic planners have the aim of making driving in the city as slow, as fraught and as frustrating as possible. The central streets in the newly- planned post earthquake are a disaster, all designed to put people off taking cars into the city. On the one hand the CCC wish to encourage people into the city and on the other they make it as difficult as they can. Presumably they think that this will encourage people to cycle or catch the bus. It won’t!

It reminds me of the time the planners put a bus lane along Hills Road that forced all the traffic to stop behind the bus every time it stopped to let passengers on and off. Presumably it was designed to encourage the good folk of Christchurch to leave their vehicles at home and catch the bus. Didn’t work, surprisingly, just made a helluva lot of drivers as angry as hell.

What is it with traffic planners?
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April 7, 2016 8:20am
Albert_Ross

I’ve seen the Government being blamed for the plight of some dairy farmers, because it was the Government that recklessly and irresponsibly encouraged dairy expansion in the first place.

Is this fair? Can somebody explain what actions of the Government are supposed to have done this?
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April 7, 2016 8:24am
alex Masterley

Nukuleka,
I am convinced Auckland and Christchurch share transport planners. Getting around the CBD in Auckland and fringes is a nightmare at the moment. Newmarket is a no go and a no movement area now.

KS. Why not nominate Ms Bright. she would love the role of head honcho of FIFA and it would get her out of our hair.
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April 7, 2016 8:33am
VicParking

Albert-
They spent money on R&D
They lowered tax rates, incouraged business.
Promoted NZ products as being clean and Green
Lowered inflation and unemployment
Made the sun shine and rain fall
Kept Labour and the Greens off the Treasury benches
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April 7, 2016 8:38am
fernglas

The following are economically and socially necessary

1) Capital gains tax on all property (no exceptions for the first home)

2) Raise eligibility age for National Super.

3) Means test National Super.

All three hurt me badly. Which party has the courage to make policy about them?
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April 7, 2016 8:40am
Chuck Bird

This is yet another case of a two tier justice system. It sounds like it was pretty savage assault. I note the man’s wife supports the discharge without conviction but doubt if this would happen if the man was unemployed or an unskilled worker.

Health professional who bashed partner beats rap in court

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11618143
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April 7, 2016 8:46am
EAD

@ Albert Ross,

The government must share some of the blame as it is in thrall to the miracles of central banking and its ability to condure up seemingly endless booms.

If, after the 2008 crash, interest rates were held high and a recession allowed to occur to clear out malinvestments, Dairy Farmers wouldn’t be in this position.

Instead, the Central Bankers slashed rates far below market rates and blew another, larger debt fuelled bubble. People acted on these false economic signals, enjoyed a temporary “wealth effect” then the market eventually reverts to the mean.

But then again, without artificially low interest rates, one doubts if the National Party could have got us unto such eye watering debts.

“The wavelike movement affecting the economic system, the recurrence of periods of boom which are followed by periods of depression, is the unavoidable outcome of the attempts, repeated again and again, to lower the gross market rate of interest by means of credit expansion.

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.” – Ludwig Von Mises
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April 7, 2016 8:49am
waikatogirl

Congratulations to Paul Henry and his co-hosts on reaching a year on The Paul Henry breakfast programme.

I like that he is positive, his sense of humour and cheerful chatter. At least he is never boring. 🙂

His naysayers will be grinding their teeth that he has been successful and the programme is doing well.
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April 7, 2016 8:50am
kowtow

NUku ,Alex

And Daft Dunners.

Some idiot has deemed it sensible to stick filter lights on any number of junctions, rejig and repaint the road markings and direction arrows and give priority to pedestrians.

Result. A lot of backed up traffic ,when there wasn’t previously an issue.

Fuckwits with an agenda and lots of rate payers’ money to waste.
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April 7, 2016 8:53am
Albert_Ross

EAD, those might be reasons why some people could have developed unrealistic ambitions, but they are not factors that would drive people specifically into dairy farming as opposed to walnut farming or computer game design or dressmaking.

Who is this “us” that the Government has got into “eye watering debt”? The national debt ain’t all that by international standards, and the Government did not force any individual or business to borrow money.
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April 7, 2016 8:57am
Happychappy

Why is it necessary for MSM to force the ideology of professionals that have never done a good days work in their life time When you read or hear these peoples opinion they are basically always one sided and of left leaning politics.This tells me that this is what our Professors and other teachers in universities are preaching to our political students and is not good for NZ Politics
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April 7, 2016 8:58am
EAD

Albert Ross,

have a read of one of today’s articles on Zerohedge that explains the root cause of the malaise – our fraudulent and immoral monetary system that none of us voted for:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-06/rotten-core

By our calculations – backed by studies, hunches, and deep research – the typical American man (it is less true for women) earns less in real, disposable income per hour today than he did 30 years ago.

He goes to buy a car or a house, and he finds he must work longer to pay the bill than he would have in the last years of the Reagan administration. How is that possible? What kind of economic quackery do you need to stop capitalism from increasing the value of workers’ time?

All of those things played a role. But our answer is simpler: poison money. The bigger the dose… the sicker it got
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April 7, 2016 8:59am
waikatogirl

Oldpark
8.10

Re beggers in Wellington. There was a piece on the news last night about beggers moving to Wellington for the better acceptance of begging in Wellington. Apparently the growth is partly due to Wellingtonians being happy to drop money to these (supposed) down and outs.

Down and outs who can afford to travel…
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April 7, 2016 9:01am
Harriet

“….Health professional who bashed partner beats rap in court….”

I was reading just yesterday Chuck that health professionals with drug addictions don’t get treated the same as the commoners – they receive different[read better] treatment.

And as I thought at the time – they wouldn’t go on a drug rehab/course waiting list either. They would go straight to the top of the queue.

I’m starting to hate governments in general.
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April 7, 2016 9:02am
flipper

The plight of “local government” is fundamentally the nature of mayoral and councilor candidates.

Look at the quality of mayors in Auckland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin. Auckland is a second hand wreck thanks to the tenure of a clapped out ex lawyer (and potential replacements not much better); Wellington has had a loony bike riding Pom holding the handle bars, but none of the announced candidates are capable of running a pawn shop (not to mention a CEO who left Cornwall under a cloud); Christchurch is run by a clapped out indentured Labour pollie, and Dunedin a silly non-entity.

The cause of this demise, councilors included, is the decision by Labour (sadly backed by National) to make Council positions and mayors a career option, and to introduce a ward system. When councilors received nothing but an honorarium, they were mostly from the business sector, and had business acumen. Now they are jumped up Labour or green activists who cannot balance their own financial affairs, but are intent on persevering a personal income stream…… and carry no personal responsibility for the actions in office.

And then there has been the transfer of real responsibility from the Mayors and Councilors to over-paid CEOs – actually jumped up Town Clerks. Governance, without identifiable responsibility, is now the name of the Game.
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April 7, 2016 9:03am
Keeping Stock

@ Alex – it’s tempting, but I’m not sure that even FIFA deserves Penny Bright 😀
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April 7, 2016 9:03am
Ed Snack

Fernglas, on what moral grounds is a capital gains tax considered legitimate ? The old, simple one, we have the power to take your property and you can do nothing about it ?

My opinion is that there is NO moral or non-greed based backing for capital gains tax. Tax gains that are masquerading as income as we do, but simple increases in value ? Mere theft.
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April 7, 2016 9:06am
Lance

@waikatogirl
Yes, Paul Henry is about 80% engaging and 20% ‘oh good grief, what crap you are speaking’.
But as you say never boring and better than TV1 with 99% pure leftist preaching crap.
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April 7, 2016 9:09am
Scott

The charities commission is still going after family first despite the Wellington High Court deciding for family first in 2015 –

“Media Release 7 April 2016
Family First NZ has received notification that the government’s Charities Board still wants to deregister the charitable organisation despite a decision in the Wellington High Court in 2015 to allow Family First’s appeal against deregistration.

The notice says;

(W)e do not consider that the Trust continues to qualify for registration as it has an independent purpose to promote and protect the traditional family and this is not charitable.”

I would say that the charities commission appears to have an agenda against traditional values and particularly traditional Christian understandings of the family. We can see this by the groups that are registered as charities and the charities commission is quite happy that they remain so. These groups include –Rainbow Wellington, the humanist Society of New Zealand and Waikato queer youth.

So basically if you are advocating for homosexuality or humanism then it’s all good and you are definitely a charity. If on the other hand you are advocating for the shocking notion that a family is made up of mum and dad and the kids then that is not a legitimate charitable purpose and the charities commission will continue to pursue you to deregister you and make your life as difficult as they possibly can.

I think there should be a commission of enquiry to investigate the radicalisation of the charities commission?
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April 7, 2016 9:10am
mikenmild

EAD
So how is that total worldwide economic collapse coming along?
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April 7, 2016 9:11am
Andrei

Is there anyone in football who is not involved in dodgy dealings?

Is their anyone in the higher echelons of politics, business and sport that is not involved in ” dodgy dealings” Keeping Stock?

FIFA originally came under the spotlight for their temerity in awarding the next two World Cups to Russia and Qatar respectively ahead of bids from the UK and the USA respectively.

The so called “Panama Papers” are an intelligence operation to discredit various enemies of the Western Elites – they do contain some truths about skulduggery but most of what has been released is innuendo often about people whose names do not appear anywhere in the documents e.g Vladimir Putin. whose picture accompanied every story in the initial revelation, Bashar al Assad and Xi Jinping the President of the Peoples Republic of china.

The only Western politician of note to get a mention is David Cameron whose late father appears in the “leak” but his connection attracts far less attention than the others above
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April 7, 2016 9:12am
dime

always sad when a rich, piss drinking, hilarious kiwi bows out doing something stupid, while hammered.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11618236
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April 7, 2016 9:13am
fernglas

Ed Snack

Who said anything about CGT having moral grounds for legitimacy? If we accept taxation as inevitable then we have to look at what is the most effective and socially advantageous. The thinking exemplified by Piketty and Morgan is that increases in wealth derived from passive capital gains are equally amenable to taxation as income derived from employment. Most OECD countries agree. It is because New Zealand has such a one dimensional savings mentality (buy house, pay off mortgage, maybe buy another house and live off the proceeds) that CGT is so unpopular. I don’t like the idea of a CGT any more than I like paying GST or income tax, but I think that an important debate is being sidelined by politics.
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April 7, 2016 9:17am
SteveRemmington

The usual The Strandard suspects frothing at the mouth over Mexicans tax thieves stealing food out of the mouths of Mexican children.

Perhaps if they started closer to home with Matt Mccartens dalliance with the IRD people may actually take their opinions seriously!

Opportunist, hypocritical retards. God help us!
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April 7, 2016 9:22am
flipper

A reminder of reality…..

Source: thegreenpapers.com

” …. The Republican Convention has total of 2,472 delegates with 1,237 needed to nominate.
Soft delegate count changed from Trump 753, Cruz 478, Rubio 173, Kasich 144, Uncommitted 28, Carson 8, Bush 4, Fiorina 1, Huckabee 1, Paul 1 to [now]

Trump 759 (+6), Cruz 514 (+36), Rubio 173, Kasich 144, Uncommitted 28, Carson 8, Bush 4, Fiorina 1, Huckabee 1, Paul 1.

Hard delegate count changed from Trump 752, Cruz 469, Rubio 173, Kasich 144, Uncommitted 60, Carson 8, Bush 4, Fiorina 1, Huckabee 1, Paul 1 to [now]

Trump 758 (+6), Cruz 505 (+36), Rubio 173, Kasich 144, Uncommitted 60, Carson 8, Bush 4, Fiorina 1, Huckabee 1, Paul 1.

•Wisconsin: Soft count Cruz 36 (+36), Trump 6 (+6). Hard count Cruz 36 (+36), Trump 6 (+6).
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April 7, 2016 9:24am
dave_c_

Milkenmaid @ 9:11am

‘Good things take time’ — oops, almost forgot – ‘Bad things take time’ also.

If you cannot see the signs that all is not well, and the serious consequences of those signs are starting to bite already, then you are a fool.
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April 7, 2016 9:25am
waikatogirl

Lance
Yes, Paul Henry is about 80% engaging and 20% ‘oh good grief, what crap you are speaking’.
But as you say never boring and better than TV1 with 99% pure leftist preaching crap.
***

Yes Paul does talk a bit of crap. I don’t agree with everything he says by any means.
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April 7, 2016 9:25am
AgentBallSack

I used to know Ian Boustridge quite well when I lived on the coast. Sad for him to lose his son like that. However I note that they are reporting that his son wasn’t drunk despite being 4 times over the old drink driving limit. In any person that is gross intoxication.
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April 7, 2016 9:26am
mikenmild

That’s great, dave_c_, all I have asked is that EAD give me firm notice of the latest date when I can stock up on canned food and ammunition to ride out the coming apocalypse.
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April 7, 2016 9:28am
waikatogirl

2 boys at St Kentigen’s injured during school play of Sweenie Todd as the knife was slid across ‘the victims’ throats.

How did this happen if they were using a prop knife?
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April 7, 2016 9:30am
twofish

Andrei

The so called “Panama Papers” are an intelligence operation to discredit various enemies of the Western Elites
_____

The Panama Papers are a leaked set of 11.5 million confidential documents that provide detailed information about more than 214,000 offshore companies listed by the Panamanian corporate service provider Mossack Fonseca, including the identities of shareholders and directors of the companies.

Andrei, how long do you think it has taken to prepare this intelligence operation, with its 2.6 terabytes of inter-related data?
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April 7, 2016 9:32am
dave_c_

Milkenmaid @ 9:28am

Are you one of those who rushes to the supermarket to purchase your civil defence supplies, as the earthquake is in progress?
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April 7, 2016 9:33am
Keeping Stock

@ Andrei – FIFA was under the spotlight long before the Russia decision or the disgraceful Qatar World Cup decision. I suggest you read Andrew Jennings’ books especially Foul, written in 2006, and detailing the rorts in FIFA at that time. As a result the likes of Jack Warner, Chuck Blazer and Sepp Blatter himself have been exiled from FIFA and football. This predates that Russia/Qatar decision by some years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jennings

Another book you may find of interest in The Ugly Game by Heidi Blake and James Calvert. This centres on Qatari “fixer” Mohammed bin Hammam, and is based on information leaked to journalists by a FIFA insider who supplied hundreds of thousands of FIFA documents on bin Hammam’s bid to “steal” the World Cup for Qatar, and ultimately roll Blatter as FIFA president. It’s an excellent yarn, and an absolute slam-dunk on corruption within FIFA.
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April 7, 2016 9:36am
Keeping Stock

@ SteveRemmington – I have been waiting for a response from Key or English to questions about tax avoidance from Little, reminding the House about the documented tax-avoiding past of the Leader of the Opposition’s Chief of Staff. Little needs to be very careful as to how he phrases his questions.
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April 7, 2016 9:38am
Manolo

@mikenmild: You are a few months late, mate. According to EAD it happened last September, although he later corrected the date by specifying the month, but not the year.

Ah, the privilege of being a seer.
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April 7, 2016 9:39am
Harriet

“…. If we accept taxation as inevitable…. but I think that an important debate is being sidelined by politics…..”

Yep – the argument is about the size [and scope] of government – and Key wants no part in that debate.

National has for years talked about ‘personal responsibility’ but when given the chance to actually do something about it – have chosen to do nothing. The size of government has stayed the same under National – while they have also retained it’s scope – and in some areas increased it.

For example the sexual healthcare of gays and some heteros is not going to get better anytime soon – as Key continues to make taxpayers pay for their reckless behaviour – while denying the reckless the chance to take more responsibility by having to pay for it themselves.
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April 7, 2016 9:39am
mikenmild

I see the God-addled residents of Jesusland are determined to keep me amused. Their latest trick is to adopt the Bible as their official State Book, adding to their diverse range of official state symbols: firearm (Barrett M82/M107), fruit (tomato), animal (racoon) and four different official insects. Plus 9 different official state songs, and an official state rap.

Never mind that adopting the Bible is unconstitutional, they’ll enjoy it for now:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/04/06/tennessee_wants_to_make_the_bible_its_official_state_book.html

I love those state symbols though. Seven states have official firearms; 20 have milk as their official beverage (Alabama is a bit of a hold-out with whiskey); 18 have an official pattern of tartan; while 29 have official state dances (mostly the square dance, of course).
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April 7, 2016 9:42am
Harriet

“….That’s great, dave_c_, all I have asked is that EAD give me firm notice of the latest date when I can stock up on canned food and ammunition to ride out the coming apocalypse…”

You would be too scared to handle firearms milky.

Sorry my mistake — I forgot about potato slugs as being ammunition ! 😎
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April 7, 2016 9:44am
mikenmild

dave_c_
The problem with those emergency supplies is that folks like nasska and myself have been caught out before.
With EAD accurately predicting 200 of the last 2 recessions, we obviously paid close attention to his forecasts. nasska had a particularly tough time getting rid of the last load of baked beans before their expiry date.
All I’m asking for is a fair chance to make sure I’m adequately armed and provisioned before the end.
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April 7, 2016 9:46am
mikenmild

Harriet, is that a gun in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
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April 7, 2016 9:48am
Harriet

“….I love those state symbols though….”

Good on ya milky!

Since the flag debate is now over we can refer to the NZ flag as Ol’ Glory! 😎
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April 7, 2016 9:49am
Harriet

I’m always pleased to see you each day Milky — actually — you make my hole weak! 😎
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April 7, 2016 9:50am
Harriet

“…..With EAD accurately predicting 200 of the last 2 recessions….”

I will give you quote of the week for that Milky. Well done. 😎
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April 7, 2016 9:52am
Lance

@mikenmild
You might be onto something there.
Does EAD own a dried/canned goods/ emergency rations shop?

Follow the money
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April 7, 2016 9:56am
KevinH

@Andrei. There is a degree of clumsiness to the Panama Papers, the scale of the leak, the targets, and who isn’t being tarnished. Put those three together and it all points to a “company” job, the swansong of a departing president.
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April 7, 2016 9:59am
Manolo

The Messiah himself joins the army:
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/275384-obama-emerges-as-key-anti-trump-messenger

President Obama is increasingly taking on Donald Trump, the Republican front-runner in the race to succeed him.

Obama, who is officially neutral in the Democratic race between Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and his former secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, is in prime position to advance his party’s anti-Trump message.
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April 7, 2016 10:00am
Jack5

The multiculturalists are breaking down old cross-border familial ties, and they feel good they are succeeding.

A young American mum to be kicked out of Britain is the example I link to below.

A country opens its doors to a strong flow of other ethnicities. Then when, for economic or security or other reasons, it has to control the immigration flow, the politically correct mob easily force it to shut out “cousins” – people who are of the same ethnicity as the majority.

The multiculturists want to break down a population’s traditional ties.

It’s happening to NZ now.

Will Syrians, Afghans,and Albanians save Britain in future as the Americans saved it in 1940? Will Muslims from the Middle East, Afghanistan, and the Indian subcontinent, and people from still-communist China, save NZ in future as the Americans saved it in the 1940s Pacific war?

Yeah, right.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3526579/Mother-deported-separating-two-year-old-daughter-British-husband-nine-years-doesn-t-earn-enough.html
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April 7, 2016 10:01am
Jack5

Milky at 9.42 sneering at the United States. What a surprise.
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April 7, 2016 10:09am
mikenmild

Well, I wouldn’t call it sneering, Jack. I love those stories from the states, and from Jesusland in particular. I have a great affection for American people and culture. But they are a non-stop source of lulz, too.
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April 7, 2016 10:13am
Happychappy

I am wondering if there is a political hit coming for one of our political party’s with the Nation’s Lisa Owen covering the story in a high profile sex case in Northland
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April 7, 2016 10:14am
stephieboy

Incredible that the Wellington City Council is considering banning giving to beggars . Not sure how it would work but plenty of greedies around who would no doubt act as enthusisastic volunteer enforcers ,

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/78590288/wellington-considers-making-it-illegal-to-give-money-to-beggars

Jack 5, oh dear this what happens when Paranoia goes unchecked .

We learn that we are being flooded with multicultural ethnic minorities . Pray tell us their respective percentages of the total population and how the mechanism by which they will overwhelm us whiteys ?
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April 7, 2016 10:16am
Jack5

Milky at 10.13…

I have a great affection for American people and culture…

That’s the Milky version of “…some of my best friends are X”.
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April 7, 2016 10:16am
AgentBallSack

To all those idiots who downvoted me a while back for suggesting Helen Kellys motives were political, read and weep retards.

Helen Kelly’s medicinal cannabis application was driven by ‘political motives’
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April 7, 2016 10:16am
Andrei

Keeping Stock

Andrei – FIFA was under the spotlight long before the Russia decision or the disgraceful Qatar World Cup decision.

Yes Keeping Stock and the IOC as well has had its moments

Not to forget the United Nations

And who could forget a New Zealand Government Minister who arranged his affairs so the New Zealand Taxpayer was paying his Family Trust rent for a property it owned that he resided in and had declared an official “Ministerial Residence”

Money and power corrupt

These are the ways of this wicked world
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April 7, 2016 10:16am
Jack5

Andrei at 10.16…

If you’re talking about Bill English, have you got the detail right?
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April 7, 2016 10:18am
Jack5

Re Stephie No. X to me at 10.16…

Pray tell us …

Bang the old forehead a bit hard on the mat this morning, Stephie X? I’m poster Jack5, not the Sky Fella who organises virgins for the suicide bombers and other faithful who get tickets for the billion year orgy.
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April 7, 2016 10:22am
stephieboy

Jack 5, just focus on the factual data that suggests NZ will become the Muslim and ethnic capital of the Pacific ?
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April 7, 2016 10:29am
Griff

Jack 5
Pray tell us … what part of the establishment clause dont you get ?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…
The First Amendment’s Establishment Clause prohibits the government from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion.” This clause not only forbids the government from establishing an official religion, but also prohibits government actions that unduly favor one religion over another. It also prohibits the government from unduly preferring religion over non-religion, or non-religion over religion.

The Christian bible as the state book obviously is going to be contested.
It is also obvious that whoever contests it is going to win.
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April 7, 2016 10:32am
Ed Snack

Mikenmild, I don’t think that the constitution bars any state from making the bible their “state book”, that has no real official standing. What the constitution does ban is the establishment of a religion. It would be a matter of legal interpretation, but if a state decreed a “state religion” I’m pretty sure that would be disallowed, but the status of a state book is not so easily defined, it’s more of a vanity thing as I understand it.

The now deceased Justice Scalia was the go to man on this.
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April 7, 2016 10:32am
Jack5

Stephieboy posted at 10.29:

…focus on the factual data that suggests NZ will become the Muslim and ethnic capital of the Pacific..

In your dreams, Stephie X.

You’re still confused. Thought I told you before to leave the towel on your head when you do those “cats” on the prayer mat, especially when you’re on a concrete-base floor.
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April 7, 2016 10:33am
wiseowl

Scott re the Charities Commission.
A look at the makeup of the Commission suggests changes need to be made.
For a start the Moori businesses like bus companies that compete against normal tax paying companies, should be the ones losing their charity status.

Nothing will be done though.
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April 7, 2016 10:34am
Chuck Bird

When I was driving home yesterday I heard on the news how Helen’s husband, Peter Davis said if Helen get the top job he would go over to the New Your to life with her and how found it hard living apart but hard thought it would have been relatively short term and how he really liked his job in NZ. This is the first time in a very long time that they are still in any meaningful sense man and wife. Did anyone else hear that on the news?
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April 7, 2016 10:37am
Scott

I’m not sure Wise owl whether nothing will be done. I am pretty sure that something should be done because what we are seeing is the politicisation of the government agencies such as the charities commission. The charities commission now favours groups that they agree with politically such as rainbow youth and fights against groups that they disagree with politically such as family first.

It reminds me of the politicisation of the Inland Revenue service in the United States under Obama where they have explicitly been targeting Conservative groups such as the tea party for auditing and harassment.

I believe that the government agencies must work hard to remain neutral and not become tools of the radical left which they are in danger of becoming.
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April 7, 2016 10:38am
waikatogirl

Harriet
For example the sexual healthcare of gays and some heteros is not going to get better anytime soon – as Key continues to make taxpayers pay for their reckless behaviour – while denying the reckless the chance to take more responsibility by having to pay for it themselves.
***

If personal responsibility is to cover one area for reckless and sometimes doing downright stupid and dangerous behaviours.

The govt won’t legislate for one group to pay for lack of personal responsibility over other sectors of society.

Can you imagine the backlash from the left if they attempted to do so.
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April 7, 2016 10:43am
Jack5

Re Wiseowl at 10.34 and Scott earlier on charities …

The tax-exemption for charities is scandalous.

Not only do we have Ngai Tahu businesses operating under it, but also the Seventh Day Adventists’ Sanitarium food manufacturing business.

Political enterprises that have charity status include Amnesty International Aotearoa New Zealand Inc, which seems to have diversified from its original role of supporting individuals oppressed for political reasons.

If religious organisations such as the Salvation Army can offset the cost of their good social work as an expense, why do they need exemption from tax?

The tax exemption for charities needs to be scrapped. Then you can scrap the whole Charities Commission, too.
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April 7, 2016 10:44am
mikenmild

Ed
In the article I linked to, Tennessee’s own Attorney-General already conceded that the move to adopt the Bible officially would “presumptively be understood as an endorsement of religion and of a particular religion”, thus violating the US Constitution’s establishment clause, purposely put in place by the revered Founding Fathers to separate church and state.
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April 7, 2016 10:46am
stephieboy

jack 5,

“Political enterprises that have charity status include Amnesty International Aotearoa New Zealand Inc, which seems to have diversified from its original role of supporting individuals oppressed for political reasons.”

Evidence ??
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April 7, 2016 10:47am
mikenmild

Still banging on about Amnesty International, Jack? It sems to be a tough gig standing up for human rights these days.
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April 7, 2016 10:48am
Simon

anything from the Moslem world made you laugh milkenmong? or is the Moslem world out of your safe space?
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April 7, 2016 10:55am
Lucia Maria

The Daily Show: Donald Trump is so sexist he even objectified his 1-year-old daughter

Watch the clip in the link.

The Daily Show’s Trevor Noah on Tuesday took a look at Donald Trump’s “campaign to insult as many demographic groups as possible.” Specifically, he focused on Trump’s treatment of women.

“Trump’s misogyny easily predates the election,” Noah said. “In fact, it’s pretty much his only consistent belief.”

There have been many examinations of Trump’s past to prove this point, including an anti-Trump ad in which women simply repeated some of the Republican frontrunner’s previous sexist remarks.

But to prove his point, Noah turned to a clip from a 1994 episode of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. In the clip, the show’s host asks Trump what attributes his 1-year-old daughter got from him and from his then-wife, Marla Maples.

This is an easy question. Most people would respond with eyes, mouth, nose, laugh, or maybe even some sort of personality quirk.

Not Trump. He responds, “I think that she’s got a lot of Marla. She’s really a beautiful baby. She’s got Marla’s legs. We don’t know whether or not she’s got this part [breasts] yet, but time will tell.”
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April 7, 2016 10:57am
Griff

This makes us laugh simon mong.
http://www.jesusandmo.net/
It may be just a little over your head even though its a comic .
As it has irony sarcasm and other advanced forms of humor.
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April 7, 2016 10:58am
Ed Snack

And another interesting scientific “discovery” that overturns an old “morality” argument. It seems to be the case, from the latest experimental work, that Adult Derived stem cells are the best way forward and fetal stem cells are not. All the (restricted by law to existing cell lines at the time) work on fetal stem cells has run into the same problem, they are just too pluripotent and develop into tumours uncontrollably in adults. But new work allows adult cells to be re-set into an appropriate stem-cell like state and then they can be safely allowed to redevelop to an appropriate form. For reasons not entirely understood but related to their origin they don’t have the same problem with tumour formation.

This advance has been trialed in mice for the past 18 or so months and has allowed, as examples, the regrowth of nerves, spinal disks, and heart cells. Some more limited human trails with an earlier technology have occurred in humans restoring significant heart function after damaging heart attacks. This is going (just IMHO) to be the really big medical advance in the next 5-10 years. It should enable damaged spines to be healed, hearts restored, and even livers and kidneys regrown. It will potentially end the whole donor problem as an issue.

And a slap in the face also to those who claimed that blocking the harvesting of fetal tissue would stall this whole field. Turns out that possibly it instead enabled the best solution to be found more quickly. Law of unintended consequences and all that…
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April 7, 2016 11:00am
Keeping Stock

@ Lucia Maria – I suspect many of us did or said things 20-plus years ago which we now regret.
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April 7, 2016 11:02am
Jack5

Milky (10.48 post), you Lefties love Amnesty.

As for the question from one of the Stephieboys at 10.47…

Amnesty International Aotearoa New Zealand Inc has stuck its nose into how NZ wants to run its GCSB electronic intelligence, and implied it was on the same level as the Stasi, the old East German intelligence agency. It supports spies like Snowden. It made submissions on the “Marriage (Definition of Marriage) Amendment Bill. It now is an activist in sexual gender issues. Its web site carries a gallery of photographs from the Auckland (gay) Pride Parade.

Amnesty has moved to the Left from its once commendable purpose of supporting those imprisoned for political reasons. Many, perhaps most, people still think of it as that old politically independent organisation. The Amnesty before the activist Left grabbed it. Amnesty International Aotearoa New Zealand Inc reportedly has support groups within about 100 NZ schools. I bet parents still see it as the old Amnesty.

Amnesty claims to be independent of governments, but what is tax exemption if not a subsidy?

Now a return question for Stephie X: do ISIL, the Taleban and Al Qaeda support Amnesty?
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April 7, 2016 11:05am
mikenmild

Griff gave good advice there, simon. Get to know ‘Jesus and Mo’ – although maybe I should apologise as it mocks Christianity as well.
All religions are superstitious nonsense.
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April 7, 2016 11:07am
mikenmild

Of course it’s not all lulz from Jesusland, simon. Following the Planned Parenthood video hoax last year, violence and threats against abortion providers have rocketed:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/307056884/2015-NAF-Violence-Disruption-Stats
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April 7, 2016 11:11am
Keeping Stock

@ Andrei – Andrew Jennings also exposed some very dodgy goings-on in the IOC back in the Juan Antonio Samaranch era. What he learned there emboldened him to go after FIFA. The IOC has, to its credit, washed a lot of its dirty laundry.

As far as your rather oblique reference to Bill English goes, you omitted a rather important fact; English was cleared by the Auditor-General of any impropriety:

Our conclusions
In relation to reimbursement of accommodation costs by the Parliamentary Service and Mr English’s “primary place of residence”, we have concluded that:
 The current parliamentary system is designed to establish whether a member of Parliament (MP) maintains a current residence (other than a holiday home) outside Wellington rather than to decide where an MP “lives” in an everyday sense. Traditionally, that residence was in the MP’s electorate.
 Mr English correctly completed the declarations he was required to as an MP, and provided other information on his accommodation arrangements, in order to claim Wellington accommodation costs.
 Mr English’s various declarations and claims relating to his “primary place of residence” and accommodation costs were considered and approved as appropriate by the Parliamentary Service or successive Speakers.
 The Parliamentary Service therefore reimbursed Mr English’s Wellington accommodation costs on the basis that he maintains a home in Dipton, as well as the Wellington homes Mr English and his family have lived in since 2000.

http://www.oag.govt.nz/2009/ministerial-accommodation-entitlements/docs/ministerial-accommodation-entitlements.pdf/at_download/file

English also voluntarily paid back $32,000, despite the fact the Auditor-General found that he had done nothing improper. To accuse him of being corrupt is not only wrong, but it is probably actionable as well.
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April 7, 2016 11:15am
Lucia Maria

Keeping Stock,

Except 20 years ago, Donald Trump was not a teenager. He was an adult man with a one-year-old baby girl.

I wonder if that baby girl was the daughter that he said more recently that he would go out with if he wasn’t her father.
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April 7, 2016 11:17am
mikenmild

Jack
You disapprove of Amnesty International supporting human rights in New Zealand as well as overseas?
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April 7, 2016 11:28am
AgentBallSack

We’ll just hang around and wait for more victims. And people wonder how that caretaker in Christchurch was able to rape so many girls…Hand’s up if you’re fucking disgusted at this decision.

A Waikato teacher accused of inappropriate conduct refused to give a fingerprint for access to his school laptop, but even so, he’s allowed to keep teaching.

The primary school teacher, who has name suppression, was alleged to have pornography or inappropriate material on the encrypted computer.

Investigators couldn’t get in for fear of wiping the hard drive.

—————————————————-

The NZ Teachers Disciplinary Tribunal found the man “desperately needs to learn some very serious lessons as to what constitutes appropriate behaviour”.

His misconduct was serious, but the tribunal didn’t find improper intent, ruling the failure to keep a professional distance was likely due to naivety and personal difficulties.

The man said he was in his mid-20s at the time and made “silly mistakes”.

He will be allowed to teach again in July 2016 with conditions, including notifying future employers for three years of the misconduct, and must attend a year-long boundaries programme.

—————————————————————

Access to the laptop was part of the case and the teacher gave a password – which wouldn’t work.

He repeatedly refused to give his fingerprint, including at the disciplinary tribunal hearing, despite veiled innuendo about grooming.

Police and PricewaterhouseCoopers couldn’t get into the laptop because they were worried the hard drive could be wiped due to the level of encryption.

“Regardless of whether there was in fact inappropriate material on the computer, the plain fact is that the computer was the school’s property and the respondent was preventing the school from accessing and using its property,” the tribunal found.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/78603952/investigated-teacher-refused-to-open-laptop-but-can-still-teach

Fuck the kids safety, lets protect the pedo!
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April 7, 2016 11:29am
stephieboy

Jack 5,

“Now a return question for Stephie X: do ISIL, the Taleban and Al Qaeda support Amnesty?”

Most likely no ! In the same manner as Putin and Assad supporting Amnesty,

http://www.interpretermag.com/putin-in-syria-amnesty-international-unmasks-russian-claims-that-its-not-killing-civilians-in-syria/

and ,

https://www.amnesty.org/en/get-involved/take-action/detention-in-syria/
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April 7, 2016 11:29am
dime

“You disapprove of Amnesty International supporting human rights in New Zealand as well as overseas?”

they lost Dime when the chick running the place (on 500k US a year or so) kept putting the boot into NZ.. but apparently Iran is all good!

some report they did.. their annual thing. about 5 years ago.
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April 7, 2016 11:31am
mikenmild

Here’s Amnesty International NZ’s page in Iran, dime. Does it look like they’re saying it’s ‘all good’?
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April 7, 2016 11:34am
Keeping Stock

@ Lucia Maria – in 1994 I was coming up 40, separated, and making some very poor decisions which I now regret. My attitude to my own children wasn’t what it ought to have been. I’m not excusing Trump, but trying to discredit him for something he said 22 years ago is drawing a very long bow.
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April 7, 2016 11:42am
mikenmild

KS
We could just add it to his long streak of stupid comments, though.
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April 7, 2016 11:48am
dime

milky – no link.

i dont care. what i read 5 years ago was disgraceful. i doubt they have changed. i cant be assed researching to be honest.

just another group that started out with good intentions and was hijacked by radical leftists.
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April 7, 2016 11:50am
Scott

Jack 5 at 10:44 AM says –”The tax exemption for charities needs to be scrapped. Then you can scrap the whole Charities Commission, too.”

I would tend not to agree with this Jack 5. The idea of charity being tax-exempt is recognition that the work being done benefits society, is of charitable purpose and does not profit anyone financially.

For example the Salvation Army and other churches do a lot of charitable work such as soup kitchens, housing the homeless and alcohol and drug addiction counselling. If the government had to pay for those things by setting up its own agencies then the cost to the taxpayer would be greater.

Now other organisations that are not religious in nature can also provide charitable work such as youth line.

As a Conservative I would like to see a much smaller government and therefore I just don’t get this idea that we need to expand the tax base and feed an ever-growing government. So I am all in favour of smaller community organisations providing social services at the coalface and in the community. As long as they doing that then they should be classed as charities.

My problem is with the charities commission being politicised so that an organisation such as family first which advocates for traditional family values continues to be harassed and pursued by them while rainbow youth for example is treated completely differently.
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April 7, 2016 11:50am
virtualmark

Keeping Stock,

Just to add to your 9:36am list of books on soccer football corruption … I recommend “How they stole the game” by David Yallop. Dates back to 1999.
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April 7, 2016 11:55am
mikenmild

Yes dime, obviously a ‘radical leftist’ notion to advocate for human rights.
https://www.amnesty.org.nz/international-regions/iran
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April 7, 2016 11:57am
Manolo

New York, New York: http://nypost.com/2016/04/06/ted-cruzs-campaign-stop-in-the-bronx-is-a-complete-dud/
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April 7, 2016 11:59am
Manolo

A very pertinent and timely question:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/04/06/why-fbi-slow-clinton-mail-probe/lJmHwLuAfbxSXrrvR0XqwJ/story.html
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April 7, 2016 12:06pm
Maggy Wassilieff

There’s quite a literature on Amnesty International’s problems
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International
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April 7, 2016 12:18pm
dime

milky – i just dont care enough to debate with you 🙂

so ill concede. amnesty international are wonderful
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April 7, 2016 12:20pm
mikenmild

True Maggy. It would be a hard road being the perfect NGO.
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April 7, 2016 12:22pm

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