General Debate 5 January 2016

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publicwatchdog

So ‘Sam Green’ – if you are genuinely a grower of Kiwifruit in the Bay of Plenty, upon knowledge are you relying, in order to claim that in the 2016 Auckland Mayoral election, neither the ‘left’ (whoever THEY are), or the ‘lesbians’ (whoever THEY are), supposedly don’t want me as Mayor?

Do you actually LIVE in the Auckland region ‘Sam Green’?

Are you an Auckland voter ‘Sam Green’?

In my opinion, I think you appear to just ‘make (some) things up’?

Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
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January 5, 2016 5:24pm
stephieboy

Some more of Pamela Geller’s looniness ,

PAM GELLER: IF IRAN ATTACKS, ISRAEL SHOULD NUKE EUROPE

http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/PamGellerIsraelNukeEurope.html

In Pam Geller’s World, Everybody Jihads
Pam Geller and Robert Spencer are being viewed as free speech champions for their “Draw Muhammad” contest, which turned tragic in Dallas last week. But once a moderate Muslim begins speaking, they quickly turn into what they hate,

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/10/in-pam-geller-s-world-everybody-jihads.html

and in her own words ,

“This is Sharia going global. They are using local Muslims the world over to demand Sharia adherence by corporations and by the market place.
This is slowly leading to Nuremberg like Jewish laws as products are being branded as Jewish. “

– See more at: http://pamelageller.com/2009/12/sharia-coke.html/#sthash.EEUlKI0p.dpuf

http://pamelageller.com/2009/12/sharia-coke.html/
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January 5, 2016 5:25pm
publicwatchdog

Whatever has happened to our prominent purported Kiwiblog lawyers, Nookin and Nostradamus?

Are they sulking, perchance, because THEY weren’t asked to contribute as ‘experts’ in the 2015 World Justice Project ‘Rule of Law Index’?

Just asking …. (sort of) nicely?

Well Kiwibloggers, am about to make the most YUMMY ginger slice, so have to go now ….

Kind regards

Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
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January 5, 2016 5:33pm
Hugh Pavletich

DO NOT UNDER-ESTIMATE DONALD TRUMP …

Posted at … http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2016/01/links-5-january-2016-2/ & http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2016/01/general_debate_5_january_2016.html

… A recent interview … Face the Nation on CBS …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrbE-2M-aNE

… with a recent perspective from former House Speaker Newt Gingrich …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yQdFZUpItk

… THE TRUMP STORY … an excellent balanced documentary …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo4IzHEIeJo

… THE AMERICANS HAVE HAD A GUTSFUL OF THEIR TROUGHER POLITICAL, COMMERCIAL & MEDIA ELITES … BEING NOT ONLY ANGRY … BUT INTENT ON REVENGE …

U.S views on how institutions affect the country … Kiwiblog

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2015/11/us_views_on_how_institutions_affect_the_country.html

November 26th, 2015 at 1:00 pm by David Farrar

Pew polled US citizens on whether various institutions have a positive or negative effect on the country, The net positives for each were:

1. Small businesses +69%
2. Tech companies +54%
3. Colleges and universities +35%
4. Churches +33%
5. Energy industry +7%
6. Labor unions +5%
7. Banks -7%
8. Obama Administration -10%
9. Large corporates -23%
10. Entertainment industry – 24%
11. News media -40%
11. US Government -42%
12. US Congress -61%

Amazing that the media rank even lower than the entertainment industry!

The internet is the best disinfectant for democracy !

Hugh Pavletich
Co-author Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey
http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/ & http://info.scoop.co.nz/Hugh_Pavletich
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January 5, 2016 5:34pm
renderer

“Make things up” hell thats impinging on your territory, is it not Penny
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January 5, 2016 5:34pm
publicwatchpuppy

Hi Kiwibloggers

Sorry I have been dreadfully busy! I promised to post some updates for Big Dogs new website and haven’t got around to it yet.

First of all, do you like the photo of us together?

http://www.humanewatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/BBB_CW.jpg

PWP
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January 5, 2016 5:38pm
publicwatchpuppy

Hi Again,

Big Dog also wants to bring ‘transparency to the office of Mayor’ do you think this the right idea?

I wonder if all the rooms at the council will look this??

PWP
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January 5, 2016 5:44pm
publicwatchpuppy

Hi Again,

Sorry to be a pain, but I also thought an ‘action shot’ of Big Dog working hard would be good. Make her attractive to the ‘working class’

This is Big Dog when she was welding

http://releasingsteam.com/pin/70/
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January 5, 2016 5:49pm
publicwatchpuppy

Silly Puppy!

This is the office !

http://www.gingerstevens.co.za/products/clariti_frameless_glazing/index.html

Sorry Kiwibloggers for taking up so much time

PWP
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January 5, 2016 5:51pm
Jacob

Penny Bright – Whatever has happened to our prominent purported Kiwiblog lawyers, Nookin and Nostradamus?
Are they sulking, perchance, because THEY weren’t asked to contribute as ‘experts’ in the 2015 World Justice Project ‘Rule of Law Index’?

Are we missing something here?
Was Penny herself invited to contribute as an ‘expert’ in the 2015 World Justice Project ‘Rule of Law Index’.
One really can’t see how.
Would it be her “One Law for All” harassment of John Banks, only to be proved utterly wrong?

Because it sure as hell can’t be her “One Law for All” principle when it comes to paying rates!
How more hypercritical can you get?
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January 5, 2016 6:03pm
stephieboy

Hugh Pavletich, anything about the rags to riches struggle Trump had to get a good education and get a good job?

Also anything about his unswerving brave loyalty to the USA and his military draft deferment ?

Of course you support his ” socialist ” trade Protectionism ?

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2015/jul/21/was-trump-draft-dodger/
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January 5, 2016 6:11pm
Shawn Herles

Hillary heckled again by rape survivor over Bill’s, er… “history” with women

“Personally I’d much rather be discussing Hillary Clinton’s email server and all of the goodies which have rolled out of the contents therein or the response to Benghazi, her lack of any identifiable accomplishments or her numerous flip-flops on every topic under the sun, but I have a feeling that we’re going to be hearing a lot more about this as the year rolls onward. At a town hall in New Hampshire this week, yet another person took exception with Clinton’s supposed support of women and the “rape epidemic” on America’s campuses, bringing up her husband’s various relationships (for lack of a better word appropriate for polite company) in the past.”

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/01/04/hillary-heckled-again-by-rape-survivor-over-bills-er-history-with-women/
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January 5, 2016 6:17pm
Shawn Herles

78 year old white mother of nine brutally beaten and stomped on by previously convicted black killer. Willie McKee Jr. already served time for beating a woman to death with a t-by-four in 1990.

Perhaps “oppression” made him do it? Yeah right.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/01/78-year-old-mother-of-nine-brutally-beaten-and-stomped-on-by-convicted-killer-video/
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January 5, 2016 6:23pm
RF

Jesus Christ the special people are on the war path. Two dead citizens in Australia killed from what appears to be sucker punches by Maori offenders and a white woman King hit in the face up North for speaking Maori.

The scary thing is that in time the violent scum will be welcomed back here by Labour.
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January 5, 2016 6:23pm
stephieboy

Shawn Herles , before you go into another of your racist tirades spare a thought for those two – Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold who in a similar manner unmercifully gunned down 15 innocent students at Columbine .
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January 5, 2016 6:32pm
Shawn Herles

Islamic no-go-zone in the capital of Norway: Oslo Police — “We Have Lost the City”

” The article below is about the apocalyptic level of culturally-enriched violence in Grønland, a district of the city of Oslo.

Grønland is only two subway stops from the Parliament, and one from the Central Station, fairly close to the government offices that were bombed by Breivik.

It looks like Karachi, Basra, and Mogadishu all rolled into one. People sell drugs openly just next to the Grønland subway station.

It’s not Norway or Europe anymore, except when there is welfare money to be collected. The police have largely given up. Early in 2010 Aftenposten stated that there are sharia patrols in this area, and gay couples are assaulted and chased away. “Immigrant Fatima Tetouani says that ‘Grønland is more Muslim than Morocco.’”

Readers should remember that Aftenposten, which is the largest newspaper in the Oslo region, is normally pro-Islamic and very Multicultural.

Sturla Nøstvik (36) did not suspect any danger when the barrel of a pistol was smashed into his forehead. That was the beginning of fifty minutes of hell as a hostage of the robbers.

The women are being raped at night in Oslo, and the men are robbed more than ever.

In just the past ten years more than 4,000 people have been robbed in the town center and the area of the Grønland police station [an immigrant ghetto]. Most of them are young men. Sturla Nøstvik is robbery-victim 351 from Grønland just from this year, the same period in which around fifty assault-rapes have been reported in Oslo. The robbers play on fear, violence, and severe threats that leave a mark on the victims. Police superintendent Inge Sundeng in Grønland describes them as the “somewhat-forgotten victims”.

The police visited Sturla Nøstvik in the emergency room after the robbery. They told Nøstvik that a gang of robbers had committed many similar robberies in Grünerløkka and surrounding areas in thee past weeks. They told him that everybody should have the right to feel safe, but that they had no way of halting the robberies. “We have lost the city,” they said…”

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/norway-oslo-police-we-have-lost-the-city
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January 5, 2016 6:32pm
Shawn Herles

Belgium: Muslims screaming “Allahu akbar” set Christmas tree on fire

A glimpse into Europe’s glorious multicultural future.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/belgium-muslims-screaming-allahu-akbar-set-christmas-tree-on-fire
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January 5, 2016 6:34pm
Shawn Herles

Germany: 1000 Muslims commit mass sexual assaults of women around Cologne train station

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/germany-1000-muslims-commit-mass-sexual-assaults-of-women-around-cologne-train-station
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January 5, 2016 6:34pm
Shawn Herles

Stephieboy likes it when white women and children are raped by Muslims. He thinks this is cultural enrichment.
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January 5, 2016 6:36pm
stephieboy

Shawn Herles , the source for your Oslo story none another than the irrepressible crazy Pamela Geller,

http://pamelageller.com/2016/01/norway-oslo-police-we-have-lost-the-city.html/

Yeah Right !

Can you or she verify the story from a Norwegian independent and reputable source or even their MSM ?

Don’t be stupid .rer murder of 78 year old mother .I was just questioning your motives and correctly so .

Horrendous crimes are committed by all kinds of people and they happen to be colour blind as I sought to show !
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January 5, 2016 6:37pm
Griff

😆
He has got to the stage of endlessly repeating the same old crap.
Nut.. nut.. nutter.
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January 5, 2016 6:40pm
Viking2

This will piss of the main stream newspapers.

SunLive readers, thanks a million! Your loyal support means SunLive News is celebrating a record-breaking start to 2016, after surpassing the million hits a week milestone.

It further cements Sun Media’s place as the Bay’s leading news organisation, with by far the biggest readership online and in print.

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/116740-sunlive-cracks-million.html

Great job by the guys at Sunlive.
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January 5, 2016 6:42pm
Inandout

I was behind a customer at a supermarket checkout and the operator lady was constantly coughing, sometimes into her hand, sometimes not. A customer said ‘please don’t cough over my food’ and she said she was sorry and would the customer like to go to another checkout. He said no, just don’t cough over my food. Was he within his rights to call her out?
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January 5, 2016 6:43pm
Griff

If I was in charge I would send her home .
with pay ….
There is a good chance she may even infect more staff costing you more than a couple of days sick pay as well as the risk of spreading her infection to the general public and the outputting aspect of some one coughing all over the place.
If you are sick stay at home.
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January 5, 2016 6:52pm
publicwatchdog

Renderer, would you like to provide the evidence which proves that any information that I have provided has been factually inaccurate.

Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
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January 5, 2016 7:05pm
Viking2

The elderly priest, speaking to the younger priest, said, ”You had a good idea to replace the first four pews with plush bucket theater seats. It worked like a charm. The front of the church always fills first now.”
The young priest nodded, and the old priest continued, ”And you told me adding a little more beat to the music would bring young people back to church, so I supported you when you brought in that rock ‘n roll gospel choir. Now our services are consistently packed to the balcony.”
”Thank you, Father,” answered the young priest. ”I am pleased that you are open to the new ideas of youth.”
”All of these ideas have been well and good,” said the elderly priest, ”But I’m afraid you’ve gone too far with the drive-thru confessional.”
”But, Father,” protested the young priest, ”my confessions and the donations have nearly doubled since I began that!”
”Yes,” replied the elderly priest, ”and I appreciate that. But the flashing neon sign, ‘Toot ‘n Tell or Go to Hell’ cannot stay on the church roof!”

This guy goes into the confessional box after years being away from the Catholic Church.
He pulls aside the curtain, enters and sits himself down.
There’s a fully equipped bar with crystal glasses, the best vestry wine, Guinness on tap, cigars and liqueur chocolates nearby, and on the wall a fine photographic display of ladies who appear to have mislaid their garments.
He hears a priest come in: “Father, forgive me for it’s been a very long time
since I’ve been to confession and I must admit that the confessional box is
much more inviting than it used to be”.

The priest replies, “Get out, you idiot. You’re in my side”.

Two nuns are ordered to paint a room in the convent, with a warning from the Mother Superior not to get even a drop of paint on their habits.
After conferring about this, the two nuns decide to lock the door of the room, strip off their habits, and paint naked…
In the middle of the project, there’s a knock at the door. “Who is it?” calls one of the nuns. “Blind man,” replies a voice from the other side of the door.
The two nuns look at each other and shrug, both deciding that no harm can come from letting a blind man into the room.
They open the door. “Nice boobs,” says the man. “Where do you want the blinds?

An old nun who was living in a convent next to a construction site, noticed
the coarse language of the workers and decided to spend some time with them
to correct their ways.

She decided she would take her lunch and sit with them, so she put her
sandwich in a brown bag and walked over to the spot where the men were eating.
Sporting a big smile, she walked up to the group and asked: “Any of you
men know Jesus Christ?”

They shook their heads and looked at each other, very confused. Then one of
the workers looked up into the steelworks and yelled out, “Anybody up there
know Jesus Christ?”

One of the steelworkers yelled back down, “Why?”

The worker yelled back, ” Cause his mum’s here with his lunch.”
😆 😆
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January 5, 2016 7:06pm
publicwatchdog

PWP – what a fine photo of a magnificent pair of bitches!

(As it were 😉

Keep up the GREAT work!

All the best.

Her Warship 😉
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January 5, 2016 7:15pm
Captain Mainwaring

And I thought it was all going so well.
Between 9.36 and 12.30 we had nine sprays from Mrs. Delusion. We ignored all of them and she seemed to go away.
Then at 5.24, 5.33, 7.05 and 7.15 the mad woman’s back.
Let’s just continue ignoring her, eventually she’ll tire of talking to herself.
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January 5, 2016 7:30pm
mikenmild

This should be enough to get the gun-nuts frothing at the mouth:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/01/04/obama_to_announce_modest_executive_actions_tightening_u_s_gun_laws.html
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January 5, 2016 7:31pm
Captain Mainwaring

ps. public watchpuppy, you’re doing a great job.
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January 5, 2016 7:32pm
Captain Mainwaring

Bloody good game of cricket. Williamson’s boys thought it was all done and dusted, then SL gave them a bit of a fright. They never gave up.
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January 5, 2016 7:33pm
Jack5

Some British lawyers are using the Human Rights Act and legal aid to hound British veterans over the war in Iraq. Some law firms are reported to be actively touting for business in Iraq. What scum.

Going on his past comment, Milkenmild will think this is fine, but I think it’s appalling when a country sends working-class volunteers to do its military dirty work, then persecutes them for this.

This, from the Daily Mail:

Admiral Lord West, former First Sea Lord, said: ‘Far from having a five-year review into British soldiers, of which many of the claims turn out to be totally spurious, I would like to have a short and sharp thorough investigation of all the law firms in this.
‘I know from my contacts in Iraq that it is quite clear agents are turning up on people’s door steps, saying we gather your son, husband was injured, and telling them we know how you can claim money for this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3384637/Furious-war-veterans-demand-Ban-foreigners-claiming-legal-aid-hound-soldiers.html
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January 5, 2016 7:36pm
Shawn Herles

Typical Liberal hypocrisy.

Obama, does not like gun rights, is surrounded by men carrying guns.

Hillary, does not like gun rights, is surrounded by men carrying guns.

But their elected officials you say? Ok.

Michael Moore, the grossly obese fat tub of Liberal lard, also against gun rights, but own a gun himself and surrounds himself with private security carrying guns.

And there are more…

“7 Liberal Hypocrites Who Call For Gun Control While Being Protected By Guns”

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2013/03/23/7-liberal-hypocrites-who-call-for-gun-control-while-being-protected-by-guns-n1546898/page/full

Liberalism is a mental disorder.
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January 5, 2016 7:40pm
Shawn Herles

Why Multiculturalism Is Racism

https://pjmedia.com/blog/why-multiculturalism-is-racism/
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January 5, 2016 7:42pm
mikenmild

it seems from your article, Jack, that about one third of the claims are being thrown out. Does that mean that in two thirds of the cases there is something to examine?
I remember from previous posts you are keen for leniency to be extended to war criminals.
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January 5, 2016 7:42pm
Griff

Obama, does not like gun rights, is surrounded by men carrying guns.
To protect him self from the right wing loony gun nuts……
You are getting more silly by the day Shawn
Here is an actual long running study on Conservative’s lunatic thinking not some blog for low info conservonutters .
http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf
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January 5, 2016 7:46pm
Jack5

Milkenmild posted at 7.42:

…. you are keen for leniency to be extended to war criminals…

No, I’m opposed to lawyers using state grants to persecute their own country’s soldiers. Under the latest Leftist-Liberal rules of war the whole of RAF Bomber Command, and the US bomber crews would all be prosecuted as war criminals, as would the commandos who stormed ashore first on D-Day.

I guess many of the older the lawyers concerned were, in their youth, on the streets protesting about the Vietnam War, and were part of the Soviet-subsidised peace and anti-nuclear movements.

The answer is conscription. When Pacifists’ sons, and perhaps daughters, are on the front lines, Pacifists and liberal lawyers will take a more rational view about combat.
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January 5, 2016 7:50pm
Shawn Herles

Obama: Our Biggest Threat To National Security

http://bearingarms.com/obama-biggest-threat-national-security/?utm_source=BearingArms1_0&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=BearingArms1
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January 5, 2016 7:54pm
Shawn Herles

Should Politicians Who Support Gun Control Be Provided Armed Guards?

http://bearingarms.com/secret-service-disarmed/?utm_source=BearingArms1_0&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=BearingArms1

No. Let them put their money where their mouths are.
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January 5, 2016 7:55pm
nasska

It’s not a fair go persecuting military personal using civilian laws. Unless the average citizen is stupid enough to wander into Rotterham, Bradford or South Auckland they can have no appreciation of living & working in an area where nearly everyone they encounter wants to kill them.

The lawyers & their backers are another pack of gutless SJW’s hounding those with enough guts to put their lives on the line. The Labour scum including Clark & Goff did likewise to the Vietnam vets.
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January 5, 2016 7:56pm
stephieboy

Shawn Herles , Obama and Hilary surrounded by gun toting security guards and detail ? Presumably Cruz , Trump , Carson etc would naturally dispense with the “hypocrisy” ?

A highly fallacious argument if there ever was one !

Earlier you posted a video purporting to show that invading Muslims in India slaughtered 80 million Hindus.

What demographic and census data were these figures based on ?

There would I thought be extensive forensic archaeological evidence of these acts of genocide ?

Is there ?

Like here in Cambodia ,

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/infogram-particles-700/jtwin_1378311900.jpg
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January 5, 2016 7:56pm
mikenmild

I’m not sure about that, nasska. Usually, one would expect a country such as the UK to apply the laws of armed conflict fairly to its own personnel. I wouldn’t rule out the need for alleged victims to pursue their own cases in the courts, however.
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January 5, 2016 8:01pm
mikenmild

That’s a pretty big straw man, Shawn, even by your low standards. Supporting gun control does not mean removing firearms from law enforcement personnel. But you know that already – you are just indulging in your usual deceit.
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January 5, 2016 8:03pm
nasska

If one of the victims wanted vengeance or compensation from the UK Government then that would at least be fair Mike. Taking on an individual soldier isn’t.

For instance, if you were working as a cleaner when someone slipped & broke their neck on a floor you’d left wet then it would be the firm you worked for in court. Not you as an employee.
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January 5, 2016 8:09pm
Jack5

Re capitalism: the market shall not fall!

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/05/china-bolsters-wobbly-markets-with-cash-and-hint-at-curbs-on-share-sales
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January 5, 2016 8:15pm
sam green

@jack5.

Pardon me for not responding to your incessant interrogation – I buggered off to the cricket – good fun. I can’t remember what you asked – something about the economics of the Indian contribution to the kiwifruit business. I’m not an economist. Ask Shamubeel Eaqub or someone. We run a small operation. We rely, as do the majority of other growers, on Indian gangs to pick and prune our crop. Without them we wouldn’t get our crop off and on the boat. They are not on work visas they are NZ citizens making a valuable contribution to an extremely valuable export industry which was your original issue – that immigrants contribute only “rarely to our exports”. I begged to differ from my own experience and you got all huffy puffy. Further to the original point you made about immigrants contributing “rarely to our exports” would be the significant contribution to, and initial development of, the market gardening industry by the Chinese immigrants. And then there’s wine – did I mention the wine industry?
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January 5, 2016 8:16pm
stephieboy

nasska, underscores our no fault accident compensation insurance scheme .Can imagine the potentially tortuously lengthy ligation over that wet floor .

Presumably the cleaner ( and employer ) would contribute towards an accident compensation fund ?
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January 5, 2016 8:17pm
Odakyu-sen

nasska,

“… or South Auckland they can have no appreciation of living & working in an area where nearly everyone they encounter wants to kill them.”

Is South Auckland really that bad? Which part of it are you referring to? Manurewa? Otara? Papatoetoe? Papakura? Mangere? Wiri? Clevedon? or (God forbid) Flat Bush?
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January 5, 2016 8:18pm
Jack5

The Stephieboys want archaeological evidence of the greatest slaughter of all time: the Muslim massacres of Hindus.

C’mon someone stacked up the Cambodian skulls, and this was less than 50 years ago.

What would be left after centuries? Has evidence been found of the piles of skulls Genghis Khan piled up outside cities he obliterated?
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January 5, 2016 8:23pm
Jack5

Sam Green at 8.16 posted of immigrants’ contribution to the economy – “And then there’s wine – did I mention the wine industry?”

That goes back to the early Catholic missionaries. I guess just about every export, apart from flax and tattooed heads goes back to foreign arrivals.

However, I was talking about the arrival of Asian immigrants in the last decade or two. Of course many will make great citizens.
But what new export industries have they pioneered?
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January 5, 2016 8:26pm
nasska

Odakyu-sen

It’s been a long time since I ventured North of the Bombay Hills.

I’m relying on the observations of a friend who served five years as a rear gunner on a Mangere home delivery milk truck.
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January 5, 2016 8:28pm
Odakyu-sen

Naaska,

Did you say “rear gunner”? Check this out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhPnlVz3VWU (Give it a couple of seconds to kick in.)

Is this what my cat dreams about?
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January 5, 2016 8:35pm
nasska

Evil little bastards aren’t they? 🙂
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January 5, 2016 8:37pm
sam green

I doubt that any of the Chinese market gardeners or Dally wine growers – Brakovich, Nobilo and the like – made their contribution in those initial years. Those family industries were built up over generations – much like the dairy industry – remember Chew Chong? When those people first came to the country they were vilified and isolated and kept to their family groups and built up industries that contribute to the export economy. The Indian community is growing in the kiwifruit industry. They are not just packers and pruners, they are becoming contractors and growers. OMG they are even purchasing orchards.
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January 5, 2016 8:41pm
stephieboy

Jack 5, the real impetus for our wine industry actually came from Dalmatians who arrived here earlier in the late 19th Century .

Dalmatians
“Dalmatians (Croatians) had the most significant influence on New Zealand’s wine industry. In the 1890s prejudice and then legislation forced them from the kauri gumfields where they had worked, so Dalmatian families began planting grapes and producing wine, mainly around the West Auckland area and in Hawke’s Bay.
The three Frankovich brothers were among the first to turn to wine production. Between 1899 and 1913, they expanded their vineyard on the Whangaparāoa Peninsula until the 4.5-hectare property produced over 18,000 litres of wine a year. Fourteen Dalmatian vineyards were working around Herekino by 1906. In 1916 Josip Babich and his brothers planted vines at their Kaikino property, then shifted to Henderson in 1919.
More Dalmatian wineries started in the 1930s and 1940s. These included Selaks (planted by Marino Selak from 1934); Nobilo (planted by Nikola Nobilo from 1937); Soljans (planted by Frank and Rona Soljan from 1939); San Marino (later Kumeu River), where founder Mate Brajkovich crushed his first grapes in 1944; and Delegat’s (planted by Nikola Delegat from 1947). Of the 80 or so small vineyards around West Auckland in the 1950s, Dalmatian families owned about 90%.
Some of the wineries originally founded or worked by Dalmatians became the country’s largest wine producers. Andrew Fistonich, founder of Villa Maria, became a licensed winemaker in 1949. In 1944 Ivan Yukich produced the first vintage for what would become Montana Wines.”

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/wine/page-2

You seem to have this big hangup and blind spot when it comes to especially Asian immigrants and their contributions to our economy .

Why ?

They haven’t contributed to the economy ?

Evidence ?
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January 5, 2016 8:45pm
Nostradamus

Penny:

Whatever has happened to our prominent purported Kiwiblog lawyers, Nookin and Nostradamus?

Are they sulking, perchance, because THEY weren’t asked to contribute as ‘experts’ in the 2015 World Justice Project ‘Rule of Law Index’?

Oh Penny – you deserve a good smackdown.

First, as a curtain-raiser and for the benefit of other Kiwiblog readers, here are some details about the Rule of Law Index:

The World Justice Project (WJP) Rule of Law Index® provides original, impartial data on how the rule of law is experienced by the general public in 102 countries around the globe.

The WJP Rule of Law Index 2015 relies on over 100,000 household and 2,400 expert surveys to measure how the rule of law is experienced in practical, everyday situations by ordinary people around the world. Performance is assessed using 44 indicators across 8 categories, each of which is scored and ranked globally and against regional and income peers: Constraints on Government Powers, Absence of Corruption, Open Government, Fundamental Rights, Order and Security, Regulatory Enforcement, Civil Justice, and Criminal Justice.

So, all in all, it sounds like a vanity project.

Now for the smackdown.

The Rule of Law Index 2015 Report is here. New Zealand ha a global ranking of 6 – which, out of 102 countries, is an excellent result.

The list of “Contributing Experts” for New Zealand are listed on page 177. The list includes 65 names and “Various Contributors”. Looking through the list:

– I see Stephen Franks of Franks Ogilvie, who is well-known to the legal profession for the right reasons.

– I also see Evgeny Orlov of Equity Law, who is also well-known to the legal profession for the wrong reasons. The NZ Herald article that I’ve linked to describes Mr Orlov as a “disgraced lawyer” who (following court proceedings) agreed to be removed from the roll of barristers and solicitors. Mr Orlov agreed to this because (as he explained to the New Zealand Lawyers and Conveyancers Disciplinary Tribunal) there was no public protective purpose for the case to proceed against him because he had no intention to practise in New Zealand as a lawyer. The article is dated 13 May 2015. This timing, in the context of a 2015 report, is an interesting coincidence and invites questions about whether Mr Orlov was appropriately described as a “Contributing Expert”.

– The list of “Contributing Experts” goes on – and there are two surprising inclusions: Penny Bright and Graham McCready (of New Zealand Private Prosecution Service Limited). Ms Bright and Mr McCready find themselves in the distinguished company of Mr Orlov because, like him, they’re well-known to the legal profession for the wrong reasons. It’s questionable whether Ms Bright and Mr McCready contributed much expertise to the report.

But I digress! Why is it, Penny, that once again I’ve caught you out engaging in misleading and deceptive commentary (by omitting material facts)? And, since you’ve diverted me from productive fee-earning work, where should I send my invoice – to your soon-to-be-sold home?
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January 5, 2016 8:50pm
mikenmild

Why wasn’t I asked to contribute, as a well-known ‘expert’, to the 2015 Global Nose-picking Project?
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January 5, 2016 9:00pm
nasska

Interesting contribution…..thanks Nostra.
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January 5, 2016 9:01pm
Jack5

Sam Green asked at 8.41: “remember Chew Chong?”

Chew Chong (Chau Tseung) was indeed an export pioneer – but of a fungus that was popular in China. His dairy factory opened in 1887, while the first NZ dairy exports weren 1846 and the first refrigerated exports were in 1882. By 1892, Chew Chong was more or less squeezed out of the dairy industry by the emerging co-operatives.

The Muslim Stephieboys syndicate at 8.45 alleges I said Asian immigrants didn’t contribute to the economy, a typical Islamic PR lie. What I was on about was the lack of export industries being created by the recent waves of Asian immigrants, and how this was not solving NZ’s nearly half-century of balance of payments deficits. This should be a matter of concern for everyone.

When the Stephieboys give Dalmatians due recognition for their part in the early wine industry, the Stephieboys are, of course, ignorant that NZ did not develop a significant export wine industry until recent pioneering work, such as that of Lincoln University, on potential locales and grape varieties, plus spectacularly successful State-led reorganisation of the industry. That caused wholesale replacement of mediocre varieties with wines now lapped up by export markets – sauvignon blanc etc. Roger Douglas, who backed the reconstruction of the wine industry with State money, thus probably deserves more credit for the export industry’s success than do the Dalmatians and the early Catholic missionary wine pioneers.

I guess under your Sharia law, Stephieboys, there would be no wine industry in NZ.
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January 5, 2016 9:02pm
mikenmild

Clap clap for state capital and the government picking winners, Jack?
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January 5, 2016 9:04pm
Awww C-mon

Nostra… Geez you legend, happy to pick up part of the bill if you keep delivering this stuff!
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January 5, 2016 9:09pm
renderer

Penny. ONE small question. Did you or did you not mislead the court??
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January 5, 2016 9:13pm
Jack5

Re Milkenmild at 9.04. Right in this case, and the picker was a champion of free markets. It was more of a consensus of the wine industry and the State, though. I think the brains of the move might have been in the industry, but Roger Douglas decided to back them.

A bit like the big industry and Government consensus in Japan in the recovery from World War 2. How could the manufacturing techniques, originally based on American statistical techniques evolved from those used in munitions production, have been so uniformly implemented except by close co-operation of industry and State?
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January 5, 2016 9:15pm
rightoverlabour

WO needs to do some research on High Speed (160 km/h) narrow gauge trains before condemning suggestions of a high speed train link between the airport and Auckland. there are very few first world cities that do not have a good rail link between the airport and the major city. Even Johannesburg has got this right (they use the same gauge as New Zealand). Can’t post this on his site as nanny rules apply and I was banned…… What is it with him and his hatred of trains?
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January 5, 2016 9:17pm
mikenmild

Yes Jack, throwing some taxpayers’ cash at winemakers is exactly like massive government investment to restore shattered infrastructure.
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January 5, 2016 9:18pm
stephieboy

Jack 5 and adding to mm’s wry comments I take it that the wine industry was in reality the work of those of exclusively Anglo Saxon and Celtic origin ?
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January 5, 2016 9:20pm
Jack5

Milkenmild, 9.18: are you talking about Christchurch?

If so, the results of the wine industry investment are and will be more easily measured.
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January 5, 2016 9:20pm
Jack5

Stephieboys, re your 9.20 post:

Jack 5 and adding to mm’s wry comments I take it that the wine industry was in reality the work of those of exclusively Anglo Saxon on and Celtic origin ?

What are you on about? You are as obsessed with race as Alfred Rosenberg.

I guess, the Arabs being upstream in the Atlantic slave trade, and the Ottomans keeping European Christian girls as slaves until well after abolition of slavery in the United States, Muslims tend to be very interested in racism.

Interesting how some Muslim extremist groups have reverted to making civilian women into sex slaves.
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January 5, 2016 9:22pm
sam green

@jack5

“Chew Chong (Chau Tseung) was indeed an export pioneer – but of a fungus that was popular in China. His dairy factory opened in 1887, while the first NZ dairy exports weren 1846 and the first refrigerated exports were in 1882. By 1892, Chew Chong was more or less squeezed out of the dairy industry by the emerging co-operatives.”

So? He still contributed. You’re good at Google by the way.

“The Muslim Stephieboys syndicate at 8.45 alleges I said Asian immigrants didn’t contribute to the economy, a typical Islamic PR lie. What I was on about was the lack of export industries being created by the recent waves of Asian immigrants,”

Ya did say that. You actually said “export economy”. And don’t attempt to insult by calling people who disagree with you Stephieboys or Muslims. – Its silly, meaningless and not a valid debating point.

“What I was on about was the lack of export industries being created by the recent waves of Asian immigrants, and how this was not solving NZ’s nearly half-century of balance of payments deficits.”

The Indian community is part of that recent wave – they’re contributing. What export industry are you contributing to? I’m sure you are – you seem like a hard working fellow.

“When the Stephieboys give Dalmatians due recognition for their part in the early wine industry, the Stephieboys are, of course, ignorant that NZ did not develop a significant export wine industry until recent pioneering work, such as that of Lincoln University, on potential locales and grape varieties, plus spectacularly successful State-led reorganisation of the industry. That caused wholesale replacement of mediocre varieties with wines now lapped up by export markets – sauvignon blanc etc. Roger Douglas, who backed the reconstruction of the wine industry with State money, thus probably deserves more credit for the export industry’s success than do the Dalmatians and the early Catholic missionary wine pioneers.”

Yeah. But they still contributed. What’s your point? That’s just part of industry development.
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January 5, 2016 9:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@mikenmild

Clap clap for state capital and the government picking winners

For decades the Government viticulturalists gave out bad advice about grape growing……(or ignored the advice of Bragato -1920s Government viticulturalist)….. and distributed disease-ridden stock plants.

It needed some independent thinkers to shake the industry out.
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/viticulture/page-1
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January 5, 2016 9:26pm
blazeoflight

Jack

The CHCH rebuild is not an investment, except at the margins due to more modern materials and methods, but simply replacement of destroyed infrastructure.

If gummint didn’t do it, you think your market would?

For an answer, look at how your market seeks to avoid as much liability as it can.
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January 5, 2016 9:26pm
stephieboy

jack 5, no I just think you make some pretty inane posts about the NZ Wine Industry and seem most careful to try and belittle non British contributions to that industry and our economy .
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January 5, 2016 9:27pm
mikenmild

Sure Maggy. Jack was just saying that we wouldn’t have a wine industry without Roger Douglas knowing better than taxpayers how to spend their money though.
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January 5, 2016 9:33pm
Jack5

Sam Green’s 9.25 post included:

…don’t attempt to insult by calling people who disagree with you Stephieboys or Muslims. – Its silly, meaningless and not a valid debating point.

Sorry, Sam, I’ll call the Stephieboys whatever I think fits. If you want to back them, give some evidence in support of them.

The Stephieboys are obviously a syndicate of some type, perhaps even a commissioned one (I’m not suggesting by DPF), and I have over days and weeks pointed out evidence of this. They use a mix of styles from day to day and sometimes within a day. These are clearly not the work of one person.

Yes I do contribute in a minor way to a exports. I’ll see how this year goes, but at best it wouldn’t be more of a contribution than a small kiwifruit orchard.

I’m entitled to hold and put forward opinions on NZ’s very poor balance of payments record over the last 50 years, and will debate that with you daily for the next year if you like.

As for the Stephieboys: I wish they would just fuck off, but while they are remain there’s no way I will genuflect to these fanatics.
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January 5, 2016 9:41pm
nasska

Sir Roger Douglas will be elated to hear that his star is once again in the ascension so far as the NZ Left are concerned. 🙂
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January 5, 2016 9:45pm
sam green

@jack5

You’re really that paranoid? Some counselling may help.

I’m not debating balance of payments. I know little about that.

You said that immigrants rarely contribute to the export economy. You are simply wrong.
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January 5, 2016 9:46pm
stephieboy

Jack %, not the work of one person ? Myself a part of a syndicate ?This shows you what happens when Paranoia and a Persecution complex goes untreated !
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January 5, 2016 9:47pm
sam green

I thought he was calling me a Stephieboys Muslim.
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January 5, 2016 9:54pm
Jack5

Stephieboy, in your 9.47 post….

More than one person uses the pseudonym, Stephieboy. No one person could have such a wide range of command of English, from mediocre to unintelligible. The championing of Islam is common in your posts, everything else is from people with varying levels of command of English.

Sam Green (9.46): what new export industries have Asian immigrants created in the last two decades? Deer velvet, no. Kiwifruit, no. Pray, tell me the new ones I’m not aware of.

Don’t be such a pillock as to advise me on ad hominem posting as you do in your 9.25 post, and then at 9.46 tell me to seek counselling.

Sam Green posted at 9.54:

I thought he was calling me a Stephieboys Muslim.

No, your style is quite distinct from the Stephieboys team members.
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January 5, 2016 9:57pm
Jack5

C’mon Sam Green: what are new new export industries set up by Asian immigrants in the last two decades?
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January 5, 2016 10:00pm
Tauhei Notts

Am I the only New Zealander who gets thoroughly pissed off with this shit. Venus Serena gets knocked out of the Tennis Open at Stanley Street by Vladimir Putin’s love child.
So I switch to the NZ Herald web site and see that the biggest news about the tennis is that some female visited the Ronald Fuckin McDonald site.
How much do the public relations firms have to pay the Herald to publish that insignificant crap?
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January 5, 2016 10:05pm
publicwatchdog

So Nostradamus – YOU weren’t invited to make a contribution to the 2015 World Justice Project ‘Rule of Law Index’ as one of the New Zealand ‘experts’?

I thought not.

You see Nostradamus – the FACT is that locally, nationally and internationally, some of the (unpaid) work I have put in over the years in fighting against corruption and for the ‘Rule of Law’ to be implemented and enforced here in New Zealand, has been noticed, and respected, obviously by some operating at the highest levels of the ‘Rule of Law’ community (as it were?).

No need to be a bad sport about this Nostradamus.

I think you (and Nookin?) would probably be, in my view, quite ‘put out’ at the number of those at the highest levels of the legal ( and political spheres) in New Zealand, who are actually quite respectful of the work I do, and have done in this field.

So be it.

I regard being asked to contribute to the 2015 World Justice Project ‘Rule of Law Index’ as an honour.

I’m sure most decent people, with good hearts, good brains, and a basic understanding of the principles of natural justice and fair play, would think the same, and consider giving some credit where it was due?

Kind regards

Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
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January 5, 2016 10:07pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Jack5

I don’t how big this lot is in the grand scheme of things… but these Taiwanese seem to have established a succesful niche high-quality tea export business
http://zealong.com/all-about-our-tea/a-unique-approach/
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January 5, 2016 10:08pm
sam green

I don’t know Jack5. You originally said that immigrants rarely contribute to the export economy. I said that the Indian community did in relation to the multi billion dollar kiwifruit industry and you got all huffy puffy and went off on a multitude of tangents.
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January 5, 2016 10:09pm
Nookin

Thanks for that post, Nostra. I saw her warship’s diatribtribe while travelling yesterday and my first thought was to ignore it altogether. Like you, and most unlike Penny, I had work to attend to today and didnt really take much notice of her trolling excursions.

For what it’s worth,mher response yesterday was beyond pathetic, dishonest and appears to have been motivated by a perverse desire to boost her own failing esteem ( as usual, by denigrating others).

For the record, the debate yesterday was all about whether we were “purported” lawyers and whether it was, justifiably, below her station in life to respond to legal observations by “purported” lawyers.

I challenged her to respond to your comments about the Public Records Act and reminded her that she had fallen flat on her face already on the PRA.
It was at that point that she introduced the wholly irrelevent and hitherto unmentioned issue of the Rule of Law and the recent survey and clearly suggested that we had held out as having some expertise on the subject. While I imagine that you and I both have forgotten more about rule of law issues than her warship ever knew existed, the point is that neither of us professed, on KB, to have specific expertise on the matter and her comments were simply a dishonest diversion of the debate so that she could blow her own trumpet – as you have now so clearly disclosed.
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January 5, 2016 10:09pm
publicwatchdog

Renderer – I did not mislead the Court.

Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
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January 5, 2016 10:12pm
Jack5

Sam Green fails to come up with an export industry example that I sought, but Maggy W. does at 10.08.

Thanks Maggy, though I doubt this has the potential to be a huge export industry – unless they come up with some suitable mechanical harvesting. Good luck to them. If they rely on pickers they won’t have a chance of being more than a tiny niche player to China, Burma, India, Ceylon, and Japan.

Sadly, no sign of it making a dent in the continuing, and now worsening balance of payments deficits.
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January 5, 2016 10:16pm
sam green

Jack5 @ 10:16

You originally said that immigrants rarely contribute to the export economy. I said that the Indian community did in relation to the multi billion dollar kiwifruit industry and you got all huffy puffy and went off on a multitude of tangents.

You changed you moot in mid stream many times old boy.
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January 5, 2016 10:21pm
publicwatchdog

So Nookin – you weren’t asked to contribute to the 2015 World Justice Project ‘Rule of Law Index’ either?

With all due respect, and in my considered opinion – no surprises there ..

Also – please be advised that although I don’t get paid for considerable hours of work I put in on a voluntary basis, it is still WORK?

Which must be effective, if it is being noticed, and obviously respected locally, nationally and internationally by a number of arguably ‘thinking’ supporters of the ‘Rule of Law’ community?

Actually Nookin and Nostradamus, I respectfully suggest that you both ‘quit while you’re behind’ on this one.

In my view, you’ve dug yourselves into a rather large hole over your views on my understanding of the ‘Rule of Law’, and it’s probably now time to turn off the keys to your ditch diggers (as it were?)

The ‘sour grapes’ / ‘poor sports’ look, in my view, is never particularly appealing – to decent people?

Kind regards

Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
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January 5, 2016 10:27pm
renderer

Thanks for your reply Penny
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January 5, 2016 10:30pm
KevinH

Jack5
In todays Herald there was a story about Glen Chen, a 38 y.o chinese entrepreneur who has planted a crop of Ginseng within Pine plantations in Turangi. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11569008, scroll down to get this story.
It’s a fascinating use of the unused land between the rows of tree’s that caught my attention and also the crop of ginseng which is a staple in China and Korea that is an innovative and new crop for New Zealand that has the potential to grow into a sizeable export product.
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January 5, 2016 10:32pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Jack5

They have Taiwanese pickers as well as locals….. its a 40ha set-up now.
They had to shift from their original farm because locals in a new subdivision wouldn’t allow them to use helicopters for frost control
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/business/9127211/Zealong-Tea-farm-sold-to-avoid-frosty-reception.
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January 5, 2016 10:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Jack 5

This chappie who started up myotopia mushrooms in Hastings … pioneered oyster mushroom production in NZ …is an Egyptian….
http://www.mytopia-mushrooms.com/aboutus.htm
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January 5, 2016 10:43pm
Nookin

The only two things that these exchanges have revealed penny, are, first, that you will frequently attempt to move the goal posts of debate in order to disguise your own ignorance and, secondly, when it all comes down to the nitty gritty, your appearance on KB is always all about you and nothing about any particular cause you espouse.

Oh, and no I was not asked to participate in any survey and don’t give a toss. I have had far too much on my plate as it is and didnt need any more.
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January 5, 2016 10:45pm
sam green

@Jack5

http://hdl.handle.net/10652/1603
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January 5, 2016 10:52pm
sam green

@Jack5

http://www.nzherald.co.nz › news › article
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January 5, 2016 10:56pm
Reid

Penny were I you and actually standing for the most important mayoralty in the whole country, I’d forget about the circlejerk which is KB GD these days and focus your energies elsewhere, where an actual audience may possibly accumulate.

You may be sucked in by the pageviews but seriously, if these guys represent the best political minds NZ has to offer then God save NZ, because clearly, no-one else is going to.
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January 5, 2016 10:57pm
Jack5

Sam Green:

Your 10.52 pointer to Indian entrepreneurship looks to be hogwash. Talk, talk, talk about entrepreneurship, like the courses at universities – teaching rather than doing. Where are the new export industries?

KevinH’s ginseng at 10.32 and Maggy’s 10.43 Egyptian with oyster mushrooms are never going to be substantial staple export industries. They will never be much more than feature stories about multiculturalism in the Hooerald. Mushrooms have been an established industry in NZ for decades and aren’t a big export earner anywhere near our traditional agrilculture exports.

Similarly, Waikato tea. Flying in pickers alone is never going to allow more than an a niche industry against the giant tea plantations of India, Burma, China, Japan, and now increasingly, Africa.

Watch the balance of payments deteriorate further this year and you will see there is no chance half a dozen niche exports to China are going to even stabilise it.

This extract from Lincoln Tan’s report yesterday in the Hooerald says a lot about Asian entrepreneurs who our posters think are going to contribute so much to NZ exports (Tan is talking about the scheme to encourage Asians to settle outside Auckland):

The single visa approved with bonus points under the entrepreneur category was to a Chinese applicant intending to start a business in Waikato.

The link to the full Tan article:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11569008
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January 5, 2016 11:23pm
sam green

You still lose the original moot.
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January 5, 2016 11:27pm
Jack5

Re Sam Green at 10.56 …

I think there may be something wrong with your link to the Hooerald, Sam. Just goes to the front page.

As this is post No. 300 for the night, I would close off with this:

J’accuse the Stevieboy pseudonym of being cover for a group of posters.

And Sam posts at 11.27:

You still lose the original moot.

Who appointed you judge? Just keep your vines clear of bugs. NZ needs the foreign exchange.
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January 5, 2016 11:28pm

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