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December 8, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 8 December 2015

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General Debate

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stigie

Im sorry folks, but all this shit that has been dumped by Penny Bright on Kiwiblog this morning looks like the inside of her hovel in Kingsland !~
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December 8, 2015 11:41am
Inandout

Kimbo: I applaud your faith in human nature, but I cannot see the Israel/Palestine issue ever being settled peacefully. Hey, wasn’t that the school bell; chop chop?
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December 8, 2015 11:46am
Lance

EAD is being particularly odious today.
Loves his conspiracies does EAD

Although, I actually found one conspiracy theory that is true … shock horror..
Every Laser printed page has a signature in (almost) invisible dots that has the serial number, make and model of the printer.
It’s actually real, it’s called steganography

There you go
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December 8, 2015 11:48am
KevinH

Judith Collin’s star will shine more brightly with her appointment as cabinet minister. Judith’s future has taken on a new dimension particularly if her performance in the next few years meets expectations.
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December 8, 2015 11:49am
Dave_1924

@Fletch… actually on looking at that site and listening to the audio… yip, its a more than legit site being a Public Radio station in Boston. The two interviewers strike me as democratic and liberal as you could get in the USA. I withdraw my skepticism
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December 8, 2015 11:50am
Kimbo

@ Inandout

Kimbo: I applaud your faith in human nature, but I cannot see the Israel/Palestine issue ever being settled peacefully. Hey, wasn’t that the school bell; chop chop?

he he he.

Write out 100 times: “‘Hopefully’ can be wistful in meaning, expressing a wish, rather than a reasonable expectation’.
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December 8, 2015 11:52am
Grant

Hey EAD. Being a bit shifty today aren’t you?
You wrote:
“Let me guess, you’ve “studied” history but have never ever read in any detail or depth the reasons why the Germans took such an aversion to Jews that they thought they should be removed from influence in all German (in fact European) affairs and shipped to a country of their own?”

So the plan was to ship them to a country of their own, but on the way there were transit stops at Buchenwald, Belsen, Treblinka, and other such holiday camps, and they loved the facilities so much they never left?

You really are a very odious and pitiful individual.
G
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December 8, 2015 12:17pm
cas

Has someone like Brian Edwards been giving Andrew Little some media training? He has not been 100% negative recently, and even praised the appointment of Tim Groser this morning. I nearly fell out of bed. He agreed with the Government on something else as well. Is the leopard changing his spots?
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December 8, 2015 12:21pm
Jack5

First she wanted no Christmas Parties. Now can she censor them?

Can Dame Devoid sort out this multicultural clash?

A traditional Dutch Christmas with Santa Claus’s centuries-old traditional helper, Black Pete, has caused accusations of racism in Auckland.

The question, Dame Devoid, is would it be alright if Santa was black and the helper was White Pete? Or would you okay it if Black Pete was really dark skinned and not just some whitie with blacking on his face?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/christmas/74796905/dutch-black-pete-christmas-event-criticised
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December 8, 2015 12:23pm
BananaLama

Jack5 12:23 pm

Birkenhead is full of chardonnay socialists these days. It use to be a blue collar area for the most part (excluding the water views) not surprising the snobs that have moved in got their panties in a bunch.
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December 8, 2015 12:32pm
Fletch

You never struck me as the sort of guy who would enjoy the mincing effeminacy of Mr Humphries issuing double entendres about Mrs Slocombe’s pussy, Fletch.

Kimbo, I’m betting they wouldn’t allow that kind of humour now. It would be seen as “homophobic”.
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December 8, 2015 12:33pm
Viking2

Kiwis being deported from Australia are being asked to sign a form stating appeals against their removal could be dismissed once they leave the country, despite the Government’s promises to the contrary.

Justice Minister Amy Adams has contacted her Australian counterpart for a “please explain” after the revelations, which have been slammed by opposition parties.

The “Request for Removal from Australia” form, obtained by the Green Party’s lawyer Greg Barns, outlines a number of restrictions that deportees must acknowledge before they are sent home.

The form asks deportees to confirm: “If I have outstanding visa applications, requests or legal proceedings, I understand that if I choose not to withdraw them, consideration of my claims by the department or relevant review bodies (including the courts) may be discontinued once I am removed from Australia.”

Deportees are also told they will have to pay for the costs of their removal from Australia.

The form contradicts statements by Prime Minister John Key that the Australian government had promised the appeals process would not be affected if offenders agreed to be deported to New Zealand.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/74854431/kiwi-deportees-appeal-rights-jeopardised-by-australia-departure

—————————————————–
Who can trust the Aussies?
Born as thieving scum 200 years ago and nothing has changed.
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December 8, 2015 12:34pm
publicwatchdog

Here you go Kiwibloggers!

FYI

Help make history!

PROTEST against NZ corruption on International Anti-Corruption Day!

WHEN: Wed. 9 December

TIME: 12 noon till 2pm

WHERE: Outside Aotea Square, next to Ak Town Hall, Queen St Auckland.

Unhappy about Judith Collins being reappointed as Minister of Police and Corrections?

Unhappy about NZ ‘anti-corruption legislation’ still allowing ‘facilitation payments’ (BRIBES)?

Unhappy about Trade Minister Tim Groser effectively being rewarded for his dismal TPPA deal for NZ, being rewarded with the job of NZ Ambassador to USA?

Unhappy about PM John Key being a shareholder in the Bank of America, while advocating for the TPPA (from which the BIG banks will benefit)?

Unhappy about the lack of transparency in the spending of public monies by Auckland Council and CCOs?

Got your own issues with NZ corruption?

Come along!
Bring your placards!
Have your say!

(Protest called by ‘Anti-Corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.)
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December 8, 2015 12:56pm
stigie

Sounds like you are unhappy about a lot of things Penny, if i was that unhappy, i would seek help and fast !~
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December 8, 2015 1:05pm
kowtow

Which is more outrageous,

A) Obummers’ claim that people on the no fly list can buy weapons

or B ) Obummer has 72 terrorist suspects working for the Dept of Homeland Security?
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December 8, 2015 1:08pm
EAD

Grant, Lance,

I won’t resort to childish name-calling. I will merely continue to present my interpretation of history as I’ve learned to understand it. You are more than welcome to disagree but nowhere except in your feverish minds are my posts ever “odious”. I think what really scares you both is the fact that I’m articulate, well read, successful and don’t fit the stereotypical box you wish to place me in. It drives you nuts hence your lashing out.

Years ago I remember watching some documentary about one of the concentration camps (probably Auschwitz). In it they showed a number of cloth bags in an abandoned shed with the label “Human hair collected at Auschwitz”.

I remember thinking at the time, “why would they bother”. It’s not as if you can use human hair for anything useful, especially not for a war effort.

That, I think, was my entry point into holocaust realism.

For the reader willing to see a view of history that is different from that which the MSM prescribes as the only form of truth (a bit like global warming in that realists ate referred to as “deniers”) Eric Hunt’s videos are excellent. This one about Majdanek really opened my eyes to the truth and to my own ignorance/ misplaced trust:

https://youtu.be/pDsJtB2F9i8
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December 8, 2015 1:18pm
kowtow

Hi I’m from the government and I’m here to help.

Tube terror suspect family called the police 3 weeks before attack.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12036774/Leytonstone-Tube-attack-Muhaydin-Mire-appears-in-court.html
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December 8, 2015 1:23pm
mikenmild

Give it up, EAD. no one is interested in your Holocaust denial.
I’m more interested in your thoughts, as a modern national socialist, about how you would solve the Jewish problem today. I assume you would have to be a bit more hardline than those ‘cartoonish’ Nazis.
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December 8, 2015 1:23pm
Rich Prick

“Come along!”

I’d rather stick pins in my eyes than get close to smelly, soap-dodeging, sandal appreciating no-hopers.
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December 8, 2015 1:30pm
Manolo

Is Kim Dot Com coming along to the rate-bludger’s meeting?
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December 8, 2015 1:33pm
kowtow

Obummer says the US is at war wih ISIL , so this guy should be shot for treason during war time.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/al-shabab-fighter-flees-group-isil-row-151207181325944.html
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December 8, 2015 1:38pm
Paulus Gnome

Lady Penelope’s awayday ‘It was held in Brisbane and Ms Bright gave a report to the Auckland council’

Are my rates paying for this report to be presented; did Auckland council, ergo me, pay some / all of her costs?

A little bit of transparency here perhaps
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December 8, 2015 1:38pm
Grant

EAD. I am not in the least bit scared of you and / or your opinions. My post was made to draw attention to the slippery dishonest manner in which you glossed over the holocaust: “shipped off to another country”. My arse!.

Articulate: Yes you can spell. Whoopy. So can a lot of primary school kids.
Successful: So you keep telling us. Though was there any fallout from the prediction that didn’t quite come off?
Well read: Knowing Mein Kampf, and the Protocols off the Elders of Zion off by heart is not the usual definition of well read, but if it gives you a chubby then go for it old son.

” It drives you nuts hence your lashing out.” Not at all. I’m giving you a serve because you’re the kind of person I’ve long learned to watch out for: A nasty bastard
How did people like you and the madman get on before there was the internet to help you spread your poison without ever showing your face?
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December 8, 2015 1:43pm
Paulus Gnome

PROTEST against NZ corruption on International Anti-Corruption Day!

WHEN: Wed. 9 December

TIME: 12 noon till 2pm

Sorry Penny, I have got a job to be at so to pay for small things; taxes, mortgage, food, rates, all those things that go towards contributing to a functioning society and having a life.

Every wanker that turns up for this meaningless rabble rousing negative talkfest should have their eligibility for their benefit checked.
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December 8, 2015 1:44pm
stigie

Paulus Gnome:

Anything about transparency and accountability of Penny Bright will “not” be answered !~
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December 8, 2015 1:46pm
AgentBallSack

Must be sickness beneficiary day and Pennys topped up her GloBug again. And her supply of P.
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December 8, 2015 1:49pm
AgentBallSack

Penny why do you put the words ‘Anti Corruption’ in quotes? Normally words in quotes means they are the antonym of what they are actually meant to convey.
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December 8, 2015 1:59pm
stephieboy

EAD, Poland had a prewar Jewish population of c 2.3 million . By the end of the war it had decreased to c 20,000 . What happened to the rest of them ?

Shipped out East for bit of R in R to transit camps and resettlement centres ? Which ones and where precisely ?
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December 8, 2015 2:18pm
Nostradamus

AgentBallSack:

Have you been to any “anti-corruption” conferences recently?
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December 8, 2015 2:19pm
lilman

Hell Im going to go Penny,cant wait.
Finally Ig et to have my say, my sign will say ‘penny pay your rates”

That will be awesome.
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December 8, 2015 2:20pm
starboard

I’ll come along Penny but Id like you to have a shave first.
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December 8, 2015 2:23pm
Nostradamus

lilman:

Well, going by previous experience, the Police can’t wait either – they’re always happy to lend Penny a helping hand!

Actually, come to think of it, maybe Penny has a fetish for men in blue uniform who carry batons?
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December 8, 2015 2:24pm
AgentBallSack

Sorry Nost, too busy working to pay for bludgers to attend in my stead.
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December 8, 2015 2:31pm
Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes

More utter shit from the Herald…..some useless cunt unable to put his name to the piece (probably J.Savage) is doing to tourism what SAFE are doing for Agriculture. When the shoddy muckraker got the claims, why didn’t they contact Clarkson for comment ? …..wait, the easier option was to do a Savage, and run it without checking, or infact just embelish what was said and make shit up. What a sorry arse-wipe of a paper.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11557645
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December 8, 2015 2:37pm
stephieboy

EAD,

Unearthing the Holocaust at Treblinka: Dr Caroline Sturdy Colls.

Caroline is the Research Lead for the Centre of Archaeology at Staffordshire University. She has directed and published archaeological projects throughout Europe and the United Kingdom. Her particular areas of expertise are Holocaust archaeology, forensic archaeology and the application of non-invasive surveying methods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_KlguI-z08
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December 8, 2015 2:39pm
Sarkozygroupie

Anonymous Day of Rage:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-trolling-day-how-anonymous-will-mock-daesh-11-december-1532175
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December 8, 2015 2:42pm
Jack5

Stephieboys – explain this away:

More cruelty from the religion of peace.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3349555/Beheaded-practicing-magic-ISIS-releases-latest-horrific-video-execute-two-sorcerers-Libya-baying-crowd.html
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December 8, 2015 2:49pm
cha

Surely not.
/

Jihadists from Russia and Central Asia are pouring into the caliphate, four times more than a year ago.

Across the globe, the number of foreign fighters traveling to Iraq and Syria continues to climb, but Russia and Central Asia have experienced the most dramatic change over the past year, with some estimates suggesting a 300 percent increase.

Russia, with an estimated 2,400 fighters, is now believed to be the third biggest supplier of foreign fighters to radical Islamist groups fighting in Iraq and Syria, according to new analysis from the Soufan Group, a security consulting firm based in New York.

In June 2014, it was estimated that Russia had around 800 foreign fighters in Iraq and Syria.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/07/russians-are-joining-isis-in-droves.html?
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December 8, 2015 3:02pm
Fletch

EAD, oh there was a Holocaust all right. Deny this, if you can –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONV2LewkGgM
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December 8, 2015 3:02pm
Awww C-mon

PROTEST against NZ corruption on International Anti-Corruption Day!

WHEN: Wed. 9 December

TIME: 12 noon till 2pm

WHERE: Outside Aotea Square, next to Ak Town Hall, Queen St Auckland.

I would be there Penny, happily protesting the absolute corruption of a candidate for public office who doesn’t pay rates, hides donations made to her, lies to the court and deliberately misleads the public….

However, I will be working, and paying my bills.
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December 8, 2015 3:06pm
Fletch

What you may not know – wounded victims in the Paris terror attacks were also tortured before they died.

Eyewitness Mariesha Payne said she knew people were being tortured by the sadistic gunmen because she could hear their screams without gunshots

ISIS gunmen used knives to torture their mortally wounded victims by slitting their stomachs as they lay on the floor, it has been claimed.

An eyewitness who hid in a cellar for three hours as the armed murderers rampaged through the packed Bataclan Theatre in Paris said she knew people were being tortured because she could hear their screams.

Mariesha Payne, from Perthshire, told the Daily Mail: “We knew people were being tortured in the theatre because we heard people screaming, but they were not being shot and these were singular screams.

“When we escaped a man trapped on the level where it happened said to us the terrorists were stabbing people in the stomach. We were told they were throwing explosives at people. It was a horrendous ordeal.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/british-survivor-eagles-death-metal-6839245
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December 8, 2015 3:11pm
stephieboy

Jack5, no it is bleeding obvious that this the perverse actions of members of a fanatical group of extremists known as ISIS who happen to claim allegiance to Islam No different than the Romanian Iron Guard who claimed allegiance to the Christian Romanian Orthodox Church and responsible for the brutal pogroms and murder of Romanian Jews WW2
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December 8, 2015 3:12pm
Manolo

@stephieboy: With one exception, we are fully aware of the atrocities perpetrated by the Nazis.
Will you admit today’s barbaric followers of Islam are doing their worst to imitate the evil Germans?
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December 8, 2015 3:15pm
Fletch

Also, in the 1972 Olympic terror attack, hostages were tortured. Some, like weightlifter Yossef Romano, were castrated.
Make no mistake – these people are animals.

Relatives of the victims found out the grisly details of their loved ones’ deaths in the 1990s, and have shared the information for the new film. Mrs Romano’s husband Yossef, a weightlifter, was one of the captives killed in the early stages of the brutal massacre. She told the New York Times: ‘What they did is that they cut off his genitals through his underwear and abused him. ‘Can you imagine the nine others sitting around tied up? They watched this.’ Weightlifter Yossef Romano was mutilated and tortured by Palestinian terrorists during the attack

She added that the photographs were ‘as bad I could have imagined’.
‘The moment I saw the photos, it was very painful,’ she added.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3341784/New-horrifying-details-emerge-1972-Munich-Olympic-massacre-including-one-athlete-castrated-hostages-watched.html#ixzz3tgwCDYEn
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December 8, 2015 3:15pm
alloytoo

@Penny @12:56

PROTEST against NZ corruption on International Anti-Corruption Day!

Why?

NZ is ranked as the 2nd LEAST corrupt country in the world. (https://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results)

WHERE: Outside Aotea Square, next to Ak Town Hall, Queen St Auckland.

Planning on more damage to public property Penny? How much have you contributed to the estimated $200 000 dollars worth of damage and associated costs from your 2011 “Occupy” debacle.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10766381

Don’t be shy Penny, be transparent.

Unhappy about Judith Collins being reappointed as Minister of Police and Corrections?

Not at all, I believe Judith will knock some heads and kick some arses. Pleased to have her back.

Unhappy about NZ ‘anti-corruption legislation’ still allowing ‘facilitation payments’ (BRIBES)?

No. Facilitation fees are not bribes.

Unhappy about Trade Minister Tim Groser effectively being rewarded for his dismal TPPA deal for NZ, being rewarded with the job of NZ Ambassador to USA?

No, this puts him in a great position to facilitate the adoption of TPPA in the US.

Unhappy about PM John Key being a shareholder in the Bank of America, while advocating for the TPPA (from which the BIG banks will benefit)?

No. Everyone will benefit from free trade. Since the fall of the iron curtain global poverty has declined incredibly due to increased trade and communications.

Unhappy about the lack of transparency in the spending of public monies by Auckland Council and CCOs?

Yes, I’m unhappy about the councils funding of race based un-elected bodies and their failure to foreclose on long outstanding rates dodgers.

Got your own issues with NZ corruption?

Yes.

Unhappy about you adopting titles implying public support or mandate when you have repeatedly been denied said mandate at both local and national level.

I’m unhappy about the clear conflict of interest which allows a rates dodgers, subject to collection litigation, and a person complicit in the vandalism of public places to stand for the office of Mayor.
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December 8, 2015 3:21pm
stephieboy

Manolo, you aware of Pol Pot , Scerbinica massacres ( against Bosnian Muslims ) , Rwanda , Mao etc.

Muslims or ISIS for that murdered on this scale ?
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December 8, 2015 3:44pm
Manolo

@stephieboy: Are you saying Islam is the lesser evil because of lower numbers of people murdered?
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December 8, 2015 3:45pm
Nostradamus

The road to gay traffic lights was paved with good intentions:

Gay-themed traffic signals in Linz aimed at promoting greater tolerance have been removed, the Austrian city’s new far-right traffic official said.

“Traffic lights are for traffic and should not be misused to impart advice on how to live your life,” said Markus Hein from the far-right Freedom Party (FPOe).

Instead of the usual stick man, the special lights at pedestrian crossings show two figures: either a man or a woman, two men or two women, holding hands, together with a little heart symbol.

Gay rights first. Road safety second.

And notice that reference to a “far-right traffic official” – how bizarre.
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December 8, 2015 3:55pm
DJP6-25

Odakyu-sen 9:02 am. the political spectrum looks like this. Stalinists are on the far left, along with Bolsheviks, Nazis, Fascists, and their ilk. On the far right are Anarchists, Libertarians, Classical Liberals, and Conservatives. In the Center Left are New-Labour, Labour, Labor, National, Republican. It goes from people who want to be your parents for life, to people who think there should be almost no government. So, ‘extreme’ right is Anarchist, and Libertarian. Extreme left is Stalinists etc. One side worships the state; the other distrusts it to varying extents.
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December 8, 2015 4:04pm
sooty

The dog has been snapping at bus wheels to Hamilton. Aeroplane wheels to Brisbane. Now she’s trying to bite Judith Collins on the bum. Hopefully Judith with will kick her sorry arse!
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December 8, 2015 4:09pm
Jack5

DJP6-25’s 4.04 post included “. On the far right are Anarchists…”

Anarchists are also on the Far Left. Both types just versions of Utopianism.
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December 8, 2015 4:09pm
Manolo

The day the terrorist couple arrived into the United States:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/america-photo-shows-terror-couple-entering-us/story?id=35615829

Federal officials around the world today are urgently trying to track the backgrounds and contacts of the newly-married parents of a baby girl who killed 14 people in California last week in a suspected ISIS-inspired attack, as a new photograph emerged showing the future terrorists entering the U.S. together for the first time last year.

The image, apparently taken as the couple moved through customs in Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport on July 27, 2014, shows Tashfeen Malik clad in all black looking directly into the camera as the taller Syed Rizwan Farook stands behind her, black bearded and with a blank expression.
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December 8, 2015 4:15pm
DJP6-25

Fletch 11:11 am. RIP Mr Rumbold.
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December 8, 2015 4:16pm
stigie

Here’s a real chance for David Garrett to really impress Penny by waving one of her worn out placards from the hovel.

Where:- Outside Aotea Square Tomorrow

What time:- 12 noon until the police drag them away kicking and screaming !~
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December 8, 2015 4:19pm
Nostradamus

Stigie:

How long do you think the Police will give them to chant silly slogans?

One, two, three, four [insert a stupid rhyme here]
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December 8, 2015 4:23pm
fernglas

1,2,3,4, Public Watchdog is a bore
5,6,7,88888, make her pay her fucking rates.
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December 8, 2015 4:30pm
DJP6-25

Jack 5 4:09 pm. I don’t think Anarchists can be far left. They want almost no government; not totalitarianisim.
Saekozygroupie 2:42 pm. Good idea. the link is on my FB.
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December 8, 2015 4:33pm
Griff

DJP6-25
Do you have a link for that .
Most political dimension maps place conservatives as authoritarian .
They seek an unchanging world meaning cultural authority override liberal ideals .
Hence far closer to communism than to liberalism .
Horseshoe theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
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December 8, 2015 4:38pm
Longknives

Surprised Stephieboy hasn’t dragged up the Crusades again!
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December 8, 2015 4:41pm
kowtow

Across Europe the attacks on Christmas and native culture continue…..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/12037947/Belgian-minister-criticised-after-blacking-up-during-Christmas-ritual.html
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December 8, 2015 4:47pm
Nostradamus

All Stephieboy wants for Christmas is … an ISIS manual:

The terrifying extent of Isis’ plans to create a caliphate have been laid bare in a 24-page manual for the terror group on building a state.

The blueprint, entitled Principles in the administration of the Islamic State, shows the framework for how Isis became a disruptive and wealthy terrorist organisation.

The document, which was leaked to the Guardian, sets out how the group can best establish a civil service, local government and a propaganda operation, and advocates Soviet-style control over the economy. Along with founding principles of “brutal violence”, the document outline basic management of health, commerce, education and jobs.

Not sure how they reconcile “brutal violence” with “health” – perhaps Stephieboy can explain?
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December 8, 2015 5:06pm
waikatogirl

Our NZ Security Services have noted an increasing number of young kiwi women leaving for Syria to become jihadist brides.

These are kiwis that have not come to the attention of our authorities beforehand.
I bet once they get there they realise their mistake.

What to do when they turn up ready to re-enter the NZ boarder?
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December 8, 2015 5:27pm
Awww C-mon

“What to do when they turn up ready to re-enter the NZ boarder?

Unfortunately Waikatogirl that may not be a problem.
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December 8, 2015 5:31pm
Fletch

I see now that they want to give pupils NCEA credits for getting a driver’s license. As though there aren’t already enough young people on the road now, we’ll have even more on our already crowded roads.
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December 8, 2015 5:38pm
waikatogirl

Yes Awww C-mon, I suspect the way they will be treated by their new ‘husband’ will not be pleasant.

If the girls do get to return to NZ, at least we can refuse entry to the husband if he is attempting to resettle in NZ.

Sad, these girls are so besotted by a fairy tale ending in Syria. Says a lot about how little happiness they don’t expect for themselves in NZ
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December 8, 2015 5:46pm
nasska

….”As though there aren’t already enough young people on the road now, we’ll have even more on our already crowded roads.”…..

But at least they’ll likely be employed young people. No license = no transport = no work opportunities.
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December 8, 2015 5:47pm
fernglas

For those who may have had a passing interest in the thread yesterday about the order made against Pete George, it has now been discharged, the Judge having had it drawn to his attention that the Act is not yet in force.
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December 8, 2015 5:55pm
wiseowl

Whats the bet there will be a cave in to the rabble that want to have a public holiday to commemorate the land wars.
This will give some an opportunity to rewrite New Zealands history and no doubt make threats if they don’t get their way.
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December 8, 2015 5:56pm
Awww C-mon

My thoughts exactly Waikatogirl, although expressed much better as usual!!

One thing you have to hand ISIS, they can sell a mean pitch. We really do have to start reinforcing the benefits of what we have here in NZ/the west as a counter argument.
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December 8, 2015 5:56pm
Jack5

Re the NZ women going to Iraq etc to be jihadi brides, as mentioned by Waikatogirl in her 5.27 post …
Another reason why NZ should not be accepting Muslim refugees from the Middle East.

If there’s a Paris-style shoot-up in NZ, we’ll make sure everyone remembers the border-opening role of Rachel Smalley and whatever fuckwitted National insiders persuaded John Key to backtrack on his initial opposition to taking the refugees.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11557876
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December 8, 2015 6:01pm
Jack5

Wiseowl posted at 5.56:

Whats the bet there will be a cave in to the rabble that want to have a public holiday to commemorate the land wars.

If there is a holiday, it will also be appropriate to restore to school history the deeds of Von Tempsky and his Forest Rangers.
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December 8, 2015 6:04pm
Nostradamus

Fernglas:

For those who may have had a passing interest in the thread yesterday about the order made against Pete George, it has now been discharged, the Judge having had it drawn to his attention that the Act is not yet in force.

That’s an interesting development but, for me, leaves some unresolved questions:

1. Section 18 of the Harmful Digital Communications Act 2015 empowers the District Court to “grant any interim orders pending the determination of the [substantive application]”.

2. The interim orders apply temporarily until the District Court hears and determines the substantive application.

3. I’m a lawyer, not an IT specialist, but it seems to me that it would have been fairly onerous for Pete to “take down or disable material from the blog Your NZ” that mentions or identifies a person directly or indirectly. Is the threshold for an interim order too low, if it has that effect?

4. I also find it interesting that the interim order – as distinct from a final order – required Pete to “introduce a full time moderator system”. This is a very unusual form of court order – what does “full time” mean and what are the specific requirements for a “moderator system”? This seems to elevate an interim order into something that imposes an onerous obligation on Pete as an online content host – I find that surprising. As DPF said the other day, if this kind of order was made against him, he’d shut down Kiwiblog.

5. And let’s assume that Pete (or any other person that has an interim order made against them) complies with the interim order. So the offending material is removed from the website. Then fast-forward to the substantive hearing. We have untested affidavit evidence (which was used to successfully apply for the interim order). We also have a “clean” website. How on earth is the District Court judge supposed to sensibly hear the matter?
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December 8, 2015 6:10pm
nasska

….” the Judge having had it drawn to his attention that the Act is not yet in force.”….

Dear God! These are the people we trust to deliver justice & the idiots don’t even know what law is current.
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December 8, 2015 6:14pm
Jack5

Further on Wiseowl’s 5.56 post on demands for a holiday to mark the Land Wars, which once were known as the Maori Wars….

Labour’s Little was on TVNZ news a few minutes ago and seemed to be supporting such a holiday. That’s the idea stuffed. We’ll never have to endure a second annual day of fat guys in grass skirts prancing around with wooden spears.
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December 8, 2015 6:15pm
fernglas

Nostradamus

1) The statute has not become law, so s18 is irrelevant.

2) The interim orders that may be granted are the same as the substantive orders; the judge can’t do what he likes

3) an interim order should be made on the same basis as an interim injunction; only where there is urgency and where possible with notice to the respondent (I suggest)

4) The order which purported to require him to appoint a moderator was outside the judge’s jurisdiction, as it was not authorised by the statute (or would not have been had the statute been in force)

The rest is undoubtedly the stuff of future argument.
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December 8, 2015 6:17pm
Griff

One has to ask
Is the judge competent to be sitting on the bench ?
By the sound of it the act as it stands should be repealed before it is in force if this much confusion has already been generated.
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December 8, 2015 6:22pm
Nostradamus

Fernglas:

I could have been clearer perhaps but, yes, I’m trying to analyse the legal position after the statute becomes fully operational.

Also, just for the record, I have no knowledge of the underlying dispute bewteen Pete and other parties – and, frankly, the rights and wrongs of their respective positions will be determined by the courts.
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December 8, 2015 6:22pm
Inandout

Nostradamus: An ISIS Manual, what a laugh. For that rabble to establish a civil service, local government, and an economy is what many African countries tried when they gained independence; we are aware of the chaos that ensued. The manual says that children will be trained in the use of arms, but who will run the infrastructure like power, water, roads and sewage? Then the infighting will create even more chaos – dreamers.
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December 8, 2015 6:23pm
mikenmild

Jack5
The nineteenth century conflicts are generally known as the New Zealand Wars. This is because they did not only involve Maori, and were not solely about land.
I’m ambivalent about a special holiday. Maybe the meaning of Anzac Day could be broadened slightly to make it clear that it honours all who have fallen in New Zealand’s conflicts.
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December 8, 2015 6:34pm
fernglas

Let’s celebrate the New Zealand Wars instead of Queen’s Birthday. Contentious?
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December 8, 2015 6:50pm
nasska

Who wants another day commemorating a rewritten history? We already have one day set aside for the overweight & permanently aggrieved primitives to moan incessantly & abuse our elected representatives.

Only the hopelessly masochistic would willingly double the crap.
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December 8, 2015 6:58pm
Awww C-mon

@fernglass

I am a bit of a royalist, keep the flag, love tradition sort of guy yet I find that idea so sensible and really quite like it.

Yet also lol’d at nasska…

I really do need treatment
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December 8, 2015 6:59pm
mikenmild

If we got another day off work I wouldn’t care what it celebrated, nasska.
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December 8, 2015 7:00pm
nasska

I don’t get days off Mike. 🙁
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December 8, 2015 7:02pm
stigie

If you got another day off Milky, you probably wont get paid for it !~
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December 8, 2015 7:03pm
kowtow

milky wouldn’t get a day off ‘work’ he’d get a day off from going into the office.
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December 8, 2015 7:05pm
Jack5

Re milkenmild at 6.34:

The nineteenth century conflicts are generally known as the New Zealand Wars..

They may be known as that now. Fifty years ago they were generally known as the Maori Wars. Work by Professor Alan Ward, who died last year, led to the most frequently used name moving to “land wars” around the late 1960s and early 1970s. If they are now called the New Zealand wars I think that’s a more recent change in popular name.

How long would it be before a New Zealand Wars holiday be under pressure to become Aotearoa Wars holiday?

They were really more extended skirmishing than wars as they are usually judged. Do North Americans commemorate the Indian Wars? Let’s all move forward.
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December 8, 2015 7:05pm
Aliog

Never remove your contact lens after chopping chilli…and never go for a pee after chopping chilli either. Ouch, ouch, and OUCH!!
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December 8, 2015 7:05pm
mikenmild

Jack
The first general history of the conflict was The New Zealand Wars by James Cowan, published in the 1920s.
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December 8, 2015 7:07pm
Manolo

Letting the enemy in:
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/04-christian-syrian-refugees-admitted-paris-attacks-include-236

Since the Paris terror attacks on November 13, the State Department has admitted 237 Syrian refugees into the United States – 236 Sunni Muslims and one Christian (0.4%), according to data from the State Department Refugee Processing Center.
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December 8, 2015 7:08pm
mikenmild

There is a Native American Heritage Day each November.
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December 8, 2015 7:11pm
Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes

Penny,
Thank you for the invitation to protest corruption. Do you find it ironic that the watchdog of transparecny in NZ, Tranparency International have protested everything about you Penny Bright, and banned you from their membership ?
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December 8, 2015 7:13pm
kowtow

Having seen footage of that bnch of semi naked ,painted and puffing fools jumping and screaming around parliamnet , looking for another holiday , kowtow says Fuck off .
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December 8, 2015 7:14pm
waikatogirl

wiseowl
Whats the bet there will be a cave in to the rabble that want to have a public holiday to commemorate the land wars.
***
Paul Moon speaking to Duncan Garner said there were 25,000 killed. Stating that 20,000 were maori killing maori during turf wars.

Over the top Liarbor demanding a day off to acknowledge the Maori wars. Isn’t that part of Waitangi Day on 6 Feb?
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December 8, 2015 7:19pm
Nostradamus

I guess we need another public holiday.

Otherwise how will serial protestors (like Sue Bradford and Penny Bright) ever find time to rest?
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December 8, 2015 7:20pm
Jack5

Re Milkenmild at 7.07 on names of the NZ/Land/Maori wars…

Milky, give Cowan’s work its full name: The New Zealand wars: a history of the Maori campaigns and the pioneering period

In my view, Belich was one of the strongest supporters of calling the conflict “The New Zealand Wars”. It was Belich also who raised views of their scale. He talked of 18,000 British troops serving here, but that was over a long period, and did the British send any top-line regiments to New Zealand – Guards, or Highlanders, or even units of Royal Marines (apart from marines who were part of ships’ complements and in some battles fought ashore alongside British sailors)? I don’t think so.

The wars were important in our small country, but let’s not overhype them.
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December 8, 2015 7:20pm
holysheet

mikenmild (17,817 comments) says:
December 8th, 2015 at 7:00 pm

If we got another day off work I wouldn’t care what it celebrated, nasska.

Spoken like a true leftie bludger. To get a day off work, you first have to be actually working. With the amount of posting you do here when do you actually do any work?
FYI the wars were called the maori land wars.25,000 killed. 20,000 by maori killing maori. Why would we want to remember this kind of shit?
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December 8, 2015 7:23pm
nasska

A Penny-Sue day Nostra?

I feel a Buddy Holly moment coming on. 🙂
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December 8, 2015 7:23pm
Griff

waikatogirl
That would be the so called musket wars that happened before 1840.

The New Zealand wars were a series of battles from 1845 to 1870 between the government and Maori total killed was around 3000.
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/new-zealands-19th-century-wars/introduction
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December 8, 2015 7:31pm
mikenmild

There should also be a special holiday for public servants, in recognition of the great work they do to serve their community.
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December 8, 2015 7:31pm

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