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December 18, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 December 2015

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Griff

The combined average temperature over global land and ocean surfaces for November 2015 was the highest for November in the 136-year period of record, at 0.97°C (1.75°F) above the 20th century average of 12.9°C (55.2°F), breaking the previous record of 2013 by 0.15°C (0.27°F). This marks the seventh consecutive month that a monthly global temperature record has been broken. The temperature departure from average for November is also the second highest among all months in the 136-year period of record. The highest departure of 0.99°C (1.79°F) occurred last month.
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201511
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December 18, 2015 8:01am
Yoza

Just because.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nVr4Ys8zKM
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December 18, 2015 8:03am
Manolo

How many terrorists among them? An invasion is taking place:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/16/as-lawmakers-clash-over-refugees-syrian-immigration-quietly-tops-100000-since.html

A proposal to admit 10,000 Syrian refugees to the United States has ignited a bitter debate in Washington, but more than 10 times that number of people from the embattled country have quietly come to America since 2012.
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December 18, 2015 8:05am
stigie

So Nicky Hager can get someone to hack anyone’s computer and publish those hacked contents and he is protected from revealing his sources ?

This is so wrong. What a bloody disgrace !~
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December 18, 2015 8:05am
billmurray

Nicky Hager was born in NZ , which is a pity, it means we cannot deport the evil bastard.
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December 18, 2015 8:05am
oldpark

Been reading that a “Sleazeball” person, who allegedly makes his living peddling someones stolen personal emails, has had his title revisited eg “Sleazeball”. The term was not grand enough.His new title “JOURNALIST”.
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December 18, 2015 8:05am
Maggy Wassilieff

Ombudsman, Climate Conservation group and NIWA
http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2015/12/niwa-shuts-door-but-says-were-open/#more-22690

NiWA still has not published its methodology for constructing the NZ temperature series
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December 18, 2015 8:08am
waikatogirl

Pictures of diseased livers coming to your bottles of alcohol. Those of us who enjoy a sophisticated bottle of wine or spirits will soon be assaulted by gross pictures to make us drop the bottle and run screaming.

I imagine the selling point of beautiful labels will be seriously damaged.

What’s next, pictures of gross fat people on your bar of chocolate?
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December 18, 2015 8:11am
Nostalgia-NZ

Perhaps the police assumed that the Judge already knew that Hagar was involved in the media, but the presumption wasn’t enough although no doubt the Judge on appeal considered that.

Another interesting case was the orders sought against PG and his blog, ultimately thrown out because it hadn’t been fully enacted. There’d be an argument here that an interim order subject to a law already passed wouldn’t be unreasonable relief to a plaintiff.
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December 18, 2015 8:14am
Captain Mainwaring

Griff.
Can you predict when I will be able to grow bananas in Wellington? I hope it’s in my lifetime.
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December 18, 2015 8:14am
igm

waikatogirl: Bet bureaucrats and socialists would go apeshit if we stuck disgustingly obese PI’s pictures on taro at the markets.
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December 18, 2015 8:15am
RightNow

At least we have Paris griff.
Claytons problems call for Claytons solutions.
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December 18, 2015 8:16am
Nukuleka

I do wish that JK would stay away from these extreme radio dj shock jocks and their pretty tasteless antics. There’s a difference between wanting to be seen as an ordinary Kiwi bloke you’d like to share a drink with- all fine and dandy and part of his ongoing popular appeal- and lowering yourself to the level of juvenile prison rape ‘humour’. All very tacky, actually, and providing plenty of unnecessary fodder for his opponents who are taking potshots at him for trivialising rape and abuse. Surely it’s time for Bronagh to give him a bit of a talking to!!
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December 18, 2015 8:17am
Paulus

Whilst out walking this morning I (should not listen – my wife says so) to the excitement by Red Radio to the Hager legal win.
Since when has he been a journalist ? Scum more like.
Espiner was falling over himself with the excitement at the decision.
Aided and abetted by the Union Labour man ? Parker (who ?) who implied that the Government was behind the Police decision.
Surprisingly National unlike Labour leader Clark do not appear to have ever interfered with day to day Police matters.
The stupid Judges opinion was only that – What goes with our judges ?
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December 18, 2015 8:17am
mikenmild

igm
Are you drunk so early? The contribution of taro to obesity is…?
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December 18, 2015 8:17am
waikatogirl

stigie
So Nicky Hager can get someone to hack anyone’s computer and publish those hacked contents and he is protected from revealing his sources ?

Isn’t weasel face’s primary employment as a journalism lecturer? Surely the High Court should take that into account? Otherwise anyone who does a bit of blogging or comments on KB could claim journalism status?

Bastard stole emails. full stop!
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December 18, 2015 8:17am
Griff

NiWA still has not published its methodology for constructing the NZ temperature series

Dear dear Maggy the anti science loon.
It is and always has been contained in the relevant papers published in scientific journals.
All the data etc is on line has been for years .
You are living in a fantasy world of denial repeating long discredited rubbish from fringe lunatics. .

Has Treadgold paid for his court case yet ?
But rich dont ya think losing at court and refusing to pay costs .
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December 18, 2015 8:18am
fernglas

The Judge ruled that the application for the warrant was defective because it did not specifically refer the issuing authority, in this case an experienced District Court Judge, to relevant matters of law, namely Hager’s status as a journalist, and the relevant provisions of the Search and Surveillance Act. When an application for a warrant is made it is of necessity done without notice to the other side and so there is a duty of candour which requires full disclosure of all relevant matters, whether they are in the applicant’s favour or not. The interesting questions might be, first, whether the Judge was already well aware of Hager’s position (and she would have had to be deaf and blind not to be) and second,whether a Judge, who must be presumed to know the law, needs to be told the law in a case like this. I look forward to the next round
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December 18, 2015 8:20am
Manolo

Mamma Merkel on the brink. Chaos in Europe because of the Muslim invasion:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/17/refugee-crisis-eu-summit-exposes-impotence-and-unfulfilled-pledges

European leaders are struggling to agree on action to manage the refugee crisis amid ever deepening divisions, impotence and failure to follow through on earlier pledges.
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December 18, 2015 8:20am
Odakyu-sen

Kiwiblog GD has been open for about 15 minutes and already the usual suspects have put in appearances:
– Anthropogenic climate change
– Terrorism
– Nicki Hager et al.
– Fine wine and drinking culture in NZ

Soon to come
– Auckland mayoral candidates (with red tick disease)
– Violence in South Auckland
– Wot John Key did (including the flag ruckus)
– The Donald (Part IV)
– Labour Party issues
– Bible studies
– Islamophobia (can’t be paranoia if they really are trying to kill you…)
– In the evening: fun with sheep
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December 18, 2015 8:21am
EAD

Went to school Christmas Carols last night. I’ve attended for the last 4 years and for the first time the entire auditorium was full with standing room only.

Was a great reminder of how Christmas is such a powerful uplifting experience when you remove all the commercialisation from it. There’s something that makes the spine tingle about singing Hymns in unison and makes one feel small yet part of something much bigger.

Come all ye faithful still being my favourite:

https://youtu.be/l1wHyMR_SCA

Devoy and all the other killjoys can take a hike for wanting to belittle Christmas into some watered down non-descript “holiday” to appease a tiny minority.
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December 18, 2015 8:21am
ciaron

It’s been a prick of a year, but It started with so much promise.
Escaped from the clutches of a micromanaging egomaniac, and found a job with normal people with interesting work and opportunities for personal and professional development.

then mid year, cancer decided to dig it’s claws into two very close people in my life, one terminal, the other a long period of treatment, with no long term guarantees.

A big thanks to the KB community. life goes on, and being able to drop in and participate allowed me to retain some semblance of normality, when everything else was getting surreal. Dime and Padriv, you both have been spectacularly interesting to read, and given me a laugh when I really needed it.

As we wind down for the year, I hope you all have a great summer and some time away from work, and KB.

Once again, thank you all for making KB what it is, and what a great help it’s been to me this year.
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December 18, 2015 8:25am
waikatogirl

Are you drunk so early? The contribution of taro to obesity is…?

Taro is very high in starch and sugars. Like most things, overeating is not recommended.
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December 18, 2015 8:28am
flipper

The power/influence of the NRL v T U Little and twatish Kellie Davis…..

Russell Packer cleared to stay in Australia
Russell Packer in action for the Illawarra Cutters against the Newtown Jets in May.
Brad Walter 9:42 AM Former Kiwi Test prop Russell Packer will make his return to the NRL with St George Illawarra next season after being cleared by immigration authorities to stay in the country.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/#ixzz3ubhe1qUq
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December 18, 2015 8:29am
KevinH

Herald writer Matt Nippert describes Hagar’s win as a “victory for journalism”.
Nippert goes on to claim that the win recognised that “Dirty Politics” passed the lithmus test for publication of information that is considered to be in the publics interest.
Being in the “public interest” is a broad definition because it doesn’t implicitly discount information that could be overtly political propaganda or malicious or libel.
Nippert implies that the ruling justifies accessing personal information by nefarious if not illegal means providing the information is in the public interest.
Whether this ruling permits the invasion of an individual’s privacy or a disregard for the rule of law as defined in the Privacy Act remains questionable. The Police may appeal the decision to clarify those issues.
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December 18, 2015 8:30am
mikenmild

It seems unlikely that the Police would appeal the ruling. The judge was pretty clear, the warrant was ‘fundamentally unlawful’.
Whether people don’t like what a journalist publishes is not a good test of whether the publication was in the public interest.
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December 18, 2015 8:34am
Viking2

Apparently the world now thinks NZ should be the dumping place for its criminals.

Walbran, formerly of Sydney, had been teaching at Narinukun international school since April.

The school had apparently failed to carry out background checks: a simple Google search would have revealed Walbran’s criminal past.

He was jailed in Indonesia in 2012 and served two years of a three-year jail term for the rape and molestation of Indonesian boys as young as eight, over a nine-year period.

BUT

Walbran, formerly of Sydney, had been teaching at Narinukun international school since April.

Peter Dundas Walbran, who holds Australian and New Zealand citizenship, was arrested on December 9 in the northeastern town of Ubon Ratchthani, 630km from Bangkok.

The Sydney Morning Herald revealed that Walbran left Australian unnoticed early this year, and had failed to register on Australia’s National Child Offender Register after being deported there from Indonesia following his jail sentence.
===========================

So the aussies let him”slip away” and now we have to take him back.

Bah what a lot of shit we are going to inherit and some of you think the Aussie policy is great.

Take one of these 5000 crims into your own place.

OR tell Key and co to HTFU over this issue. and hurry up.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/75248070/Paedophile-teacher-Peter-Walbran-to-be-deported-to-New-Zealand-from-Thailand

Bills billion dollars is going into jails and crime and police and not where it should be.
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December 18, 2015 8:35am
Viking2

It gets worse.
could it?
Yes.

A dangerous criminal who beat and strangled his girlfriend to death and photographed her body could be deported to New Zealand upon his release from jail – putting officials here on high alert.

Corrections will consider taking the unprecedented step of subjecting Richard Tait to a public protection order if he gets parole and is deported from Britain.

It would be the first application for such an order for a deportee, and would allow Tait to be detained at a secure facility within prison precincts.

Such is the concern that officials from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (Mfat) stressed to UK authorities, via the High Commission, that they want to be alerted “absolutely asap” to the offender’s deportation.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11562809

HTFU Govt.
Its your job to protect our citizens from this shit.

“Police will have a border alert against the UK-based offender’s name that will ensure that, if he arrives in New Zealand on his New Zealand passport, he will be directed by Customs to a police interview,” the aide-memoire says.

After sentencing, Detective Inspector Nigel Niven of Hampshire police told media that Tait was “a very evil man”, and he was “so relieved that he will never again be able to harm any member of the public”.
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December 18, 2015 8:35am
Viking2

I wonder if the Aussies will hurry and deport this good guy?

Gateway Motorway victim had history of road rage: court

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/pacific-motorway-victim-had-history-of-road-rage-court-20151217-glq36l.html#ixzz3ubXtDFCi
Follow us: @brisbanetimes on Twitter | brisbanetimes on Facebook

It would be a fair move if we think the Judge has it right.

This ain’t going away is it.
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December 18, 2015 8:36am
Viking2

flipper (4,822 comments) says:
December 18th, 2015 at 8:29 am

The power/influence of the NRL v T U Little and twatish Kellie Davis…..

Russell Packer cleared to stay in Australia
Russell Packer in action for the Illawarra Cutters against the Newtown Jets in May.
Brad Walter 9:42 AM Former Kiwi Test prop Russell Packer will make his return to the NRL with St George Illawarra next season after being cleared by immigration authorities to stay in the country.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/#ixzz3ubhe1qUq

Well he’s a sportsman ain’t he.
I have no doubt he may well correct his behavoir but the double standards that apply are very disconcerting.
Worse is the standards that the Aussie politicians bring to the table.
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December 18, 2015 8:39am
mikenmild

I see the Aussies have decided that Russell Packer is a great guy though, V2. so the message is: stay away from motorcycle gangs – that will get you deported – but play league and all is forgiven.
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December 18, 2015 8:39am
Andrei

Are you celebrating Uncle Joes birthday today mikenmild?
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December 18, 2015 8:42am
Chuck Bird

I wonder if the Law Commissioners think that John Key going along with a jail rape joke have anything to say?
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December 18, 2015 8:42am
Viking2

KevinH (1,556 comments) says:
December 18th, 2015 at 8:30 am

Herald writer Matt Nippert describes Hagar’s win as a “victory for journalism”.
Nippert goes on to claim that the win recognized that “Dirty Politics” passed the litmus test for publication of information that is considered to be in the public’s interest.
=========================================
That may well be so but the commission of the initial crime doesn’t seem to me to pass any test other than it being a crime.

Hager masquerades as a teacher of journalism but in reality he is a book writer. That is what his reputation as a book writer tells us.
So claiming to be a journo is in fact the crime of telling a lie. Now if he said this in court under oath then surely he is committing an Offense in Court!
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December 18, 2015 8:42am
Viking2

MM.
Well that follows our behavoir. Perhaps they learnt it from our Learned Judges.
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December 18, 2015 8:44am
Inandout

waikatogirl 8,28: Add that other Island staple KFC to the taro mix, and you have pumbas.
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December 18, 2015 8:45am
mikenmild

5th March might be a better date, Andrei.
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December 18, 2015 8:45am
kowtow

Mama Merkel and co.

Funny, isn’t it . The same politicians who van’t control their own borders ( a basic duty) think they can control the weather.

Either way the taxpayer gets royally screwed.
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December 18, 2015 8:46am
fernglas

I don’t believe that the decision in Hager’s case has the wider implications that Nippert and others have claimed. It doesn’t broaden any definition of the public interest; it merely restates the existing law and says that the application was defective because it failed to refer the issuing Judge to relevant facts and law. It’s a victory for those who believe that any citizen’s privacy should not be invaded without a full consideration of relevant facts and law and under proper authority, which I imagine would be most of the people who comment here. The fact that Hager may be thought to be a complete shit is neither here nor there.
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December 18, 2015 8:49am
Albert_Ross

OK EAD, I will say it again.

Susan Devoy has not attempted to belittle Christmas into some watered-down holiday to appease a tiny minority. What she said was that everybody is and should be free to celebrate Christmas however they wish.

What exactly is your problem with that? Do you really think everybody should be forced to mark Christmas in the same way as you do?
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December 18, 2015 8:50am
waikatogirl

inandout
waikatogirl 8,28: Add that other Island staple KFC to the taro mix, and you have pumbas.

KFC, that’s a tasty and modern improvement on fatty tinned corned beef.
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December 18, 2015 8:50am
publicwatchdog

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Ok Kiwibloggers – for INFORMED debate – here’s the ‘other side’ of the story?

Hager house raid unlawful

Thursday, 17 December 2015

By David Fisher

The police search on the home of investigative journalist Nicky Hager has been found unlawful by the High Court.

In a judgment released today, Justice Denis Clifford ruled against the way police went about obtaining the search warrant used to search Hager’s home in the hunt for identity of the hacker Rawshark who supplied information for the Dirty Politics book.

The judgment also delivered police a rap on the knuckles for the way they went about allowing Hager to claim journalistic privilege, saying the way detectives went about it was “not the type of facilitation that I consider the Search and Surveillance Act anticipates”.

He also said detectives sought the search warrant with little more than a “hope” they would find useful information.

Hager said the court victory was important “for his family and because of the important principles it upholds”. He also declared it to be “very good news for New Zealand”.

He said the decision would have an impact on all news media and whistle blowers.

“The heart of the case is the public’s right to receive information about the actions of people in positions of authority. This decision acknowledges that confidential sources used in investigative journalism, in this case my book Dirty Politics, deserve legal protection.

“I’m very happy and relieved. I can’t do my job if I can’t protect sources and if I can’t do my job then I can’t help the public get information.”

Assistant commissioner Malcolm Burgess said police would “consider further legal options”.

Media Freedom Committee chairwoman Joanna Norris said it was a good result for journalism.

She said the ruling it acknowledged the importance of journalists being able to protect their sources.

“Journalistic sources should be able to be protected because it underpins our role as watchdogs.”

Ms Norris said police applying for search warrants involving journalists should understand the principles at play in relation to the law and also be explicit about what they were seeking and why it was needed.

She said Hager’s status as a freelance journalist should make no difference in the way police approached obtaining a search warrant.

She said he should be treated by police in the same way it would have dealt with a large media organisation.

Labour’s shadow attorney-general, David Parker, said today’s ruling meant police had acted unlawfully during two elections in a row against journalists.

“For the past two elections, complaints in the media from the Prime Minister have led to inappropriate and excessive action by the police against journalists. In 2011, it was the tea tapes, following a media stunt gone wrong between John Key and John Banks,” Mr Parker said

“Last year, the disreputable antics of the National Party involving Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater, Jason Ede in the Prime Minister’s office, Judith Collins, and the Prime Minister himself were outed in Nicky Hager’s book Dirty Politics.

Matt Nippert: Nicky Hager police raid ruling a win for journalism

Mr Parker said Hager had been painted as a villain by the Government after the release of his book and today’s findings vindicated him.

“Instead of the police attention being on the perpetrators, John Key kept asserting Nicky Hager based his book on hacked emails. The police in turn reacted on the public complaints by the Prime Minister and the formal complaint by Cameron Slater, and again turned on the media.”

Mr Parker said police and the Prime Minister needed to publicly accept that the politicisation of the police was serious and wrong.

The case came after Hager challenged a police search warrant used in the hunt for the hacker Rawshark, who took email and other information from blogger Cameron Slater.

Hager used the information for his Dirty Politics book, which was a bombshell at last year’s election for its claims of a close relationship between the office of Prime Minister John Key and Slater, who runs the Whaleoil blog.

Police turned up at Hager’s house in October last year with a search warrant while Hager was in Auckland.

Detectives met his daughter at the door, told her of the warrant then talked to Hager by phone to tell him why they were there. Hager told detectives there was nothing in the house which would identify Rawshark but spoke of concern about other confidential source information he held.

Hager told the High Court – in a challenge to the search warrant – that he was able to claim journalistic privilege under the Evidence Act, and a breach of the Bill of Rights. It was also claimed the warrant was too broad.

Hager’s lawyers also told the court police had gone about applying for it in the wrong way by not properly investigating other leads, and had “failed more generally to discharge the duty of candour” by telling the judge the state of their investigation and what might likely come from executing a warrant.

Justice Clifford said there was “no explicit reference” in the warrant application put before a district court judge to “Hager’s status as a journalist”, to legal principles around search warrants executed on journalist, to the legal rights journalists had under the Evidence Act or to the way those rights were explained in the Search and Surveillance Act.

He said Parliament would not have intended for a judge to be kept blind to the possibility of journalistic privilege in an application for a search warrant. He said Parliament would also not have intended for a judge to not be informed about the principles which arose as a result.

Justice Clifford said it was important not only for the judge to be aware but for judges, when deciding to grant warrants, to be satisfied police were also aware of the issues and had appropriate steps in place to deal with information on which privilege was claimed.

The result, said Justice Clifford, was “a material failure to discharge the duty of candour” by police.

“The central issues relating to the lawfulness of the warrant were not drawn to Judge (Ida) Malosi’s attention. Those issues reflect fundamentally important public interests.”

He said there were also questions over the “reasonable belief” police had that they search would produce evidence of Rawshark’s identity.

“My concern is that reasonable belief, on the material I have been provided with, might better be characterised as hope.”

Justice Clifford also addressed evidence from witnesses before the court that the search could discourage those with important information from coming forward to media.

“In my view, the chilling effect of the issue of the warrant and its execution need to be seen in that content, and those matters also drawn to Judge Malosi’s attention.”

He said the warrant was “fundamentally unlawful” and because of that “fundamental failure to disclose relevant information” the search was unlawful.

Justice Clifford said he found the warrant unlawful on “candour” issues and had not examined the Bill of Rights issues. However, he said beyond the application process used to secure the warrant, he had “some reservation as to the reasonableness of the way in which … the search was undertaken”.

The case is not over – Hager has other stands in which he seeks costs and damages from police.

• David Fisher gave evidence as an “expert witness” in the Hager v Police case under High Court rules that require an “overriding duty to assist the court impartially on relevant matters.
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December 18, 2015 8:50am
SGA

Odakyu-sen at 8:21 am

Soon to come
….

And probably
– Russia: Saints or sinners.
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December 18, 2015 8:53am
stephieboy

Manolo, another attempt at lying as Trump , Carson Fiorina , Fox and Sean Hannity and Fox continue to spoon feed the gullible like you about the false claim 100,000 Syrian refugees entering America ,

Facts about the Syrian Refugees.

“Trump, Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina repeatedly have claimed that the Obama administration plans to accept anywhere from 100,000 to 250,000 Syrian refugees. That’s false. By law, the administration can admit slightly more than 10,000 in fiscal year 2016, and no refugee commitments can be made beyond that.”

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/facts-about-the-syrian-refugees/

I see another early bird start from you at 6.36am cranking up your meme misinformation machine !
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December 18, 2015 8:55am
kowtow

Oh Look, another convert to the religion of peace involved in terror.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/17/farooks-neighbor-enrique-marquez-charged/
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December 18, 2015 8:55am
Nostradamus

FFS Penny – stop breaching copyright (by reproducing an entire article) and post a link.
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December 18, 2015 8:56am
Nostalgia-NZ

fernglass can’t see that candour can rely upon assumption. Candour is what it is, honesty.
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December 18, 2015 8:58am
Viking2

Penny,
Wrong.
Hager isn’t a journo. He is a book writer.

That, I believe is still to be sorted in court. So the ruling may yet be wrong.
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December 18, 2015 9:01am
James Stephenson

Hager isn’t a journo. He is a ~~book writer~~ political activist.

Fixed etc.
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December 18, 2015 9:03am
stephieboy

Can anyone give an update on the many times Breitbart has been caught out falling for fake news items ?

Breitbart falls for fake news (again)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/3/11/1193245/-Breitbart-falls-for-fake-news-again

And does the current editor believe that the President had its founder assassinated ?
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December 18, 2015 9:10am
Shawn Herles

Speaking of morbidly obese slobs….

“Michael Moore Waves ‘We Are All Muslim’ Sign Outside Trump Tower”

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/12/17/michael-moore-waves-muslim-sign-outside-trump-tower/
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December 18, 2015 9:12am
Kimbo

@ waikatogirl

Are you drunk so early? The contribution of taro to obesity is…?

Taro is very high in starch and sugars. Like most things, overeating is not recommended.

That may be the case, as also is coconut milk and cream. Nonetheless, it is a traditional part of the Pacific island diet…who seem not to have suffered from the epidemic rates of obesity they now are until they encountered the modern Western sedentary life style and high-fat, high-sodium and and processed foods, e.g., processed sugar especially in soft drinks, takeaway food, canned corned beef, lamb flaps etc.
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December 18, 2015 9:12am
stigie

Are you looking forward to Monday Penny ??
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December 18, 2015 9:14am
Shawn Herles

Army of Darkness: A Recent History Of The San Bernardino Shooter’s Terror-Linked, Ultra-Orthodox Islamic Sect

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/12/17/army-of-darkness-a-recent-history-of-the-san-bernardino-shooters-terror-linked-ultra-orthodox-islamic-sect/
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December 18, 2015 9:16am
Captain Mainwaring

“Hager isn’t a journo. He is a political activist.”

And an evil communist wrecker. Should be hung for treason.
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December 18, 2015 9:18am
EAD

@ Albert Ross,

I’m guessing you’re another one if those self-loathing, morally ambiguous, cuturally relativist individuals who is becoming increasingly prevalent in the West as a result of our MSM and education system. An “all cultures are equal kind of guy”.

Your apathy (as opposed to Stephiebots, Griffs & MMs strident militarism) is the logical endpoint of a progressive philosophy which explicitly rejects all tradition and received wisdom.

The truth is Christmas and the religious connotations that are intrinsic to Christmas matter. They form a bed rock of the belief system of Christianity and it is the beliefs of ourselves and other that shape the world we live in.

When people believe in the Ten Commandments, you have one kind of society. When people invent their own morality subjectively, or reject the notion entirely, you have another. When people believe they are ultimately answerable to a higher authority for their actions, you have one kind of society. When people don’t, you have another. When people model themselves on Christ, you have one kind of world. When they don’t, it’s another.

Understand this and you understand our opposition to the drive to belittle Christmas.
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December 18, 2015 9:18am
Kimbo

@ mikenmild

Whether people don’t like what a journalist publishes is not a good test of whether the publication was in the public interest.

Agreed. A test Hager himself did not ultimately apply to a fellow member of his profession.
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December 18, 2015 9:19am
mikenmild

EAD
Ha ha. The Ten Commandments, eh? Would they be the bedrock for your national socialist state?

I look forward to your proposals for criminalising blasphemy, the worship of graven images, not keeping the Sabbath, etc, etc.
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December 18, 2015 9:22am
Captain Mainwaring

“Not particularly known for his judicial integrity, and among the weakest judges when it comes to independence. Lawyers who know Judge Clifford are more concerned with which way the wind is blowing in his courtroom.”

From the Legal News bulletin found on the internet. This is the judge who sided with Hager. Appointed to the bench in 2006 by which government?
So no surprises then……
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December 18, 2015 9:24am
publicwatchdog

Oh dear – our NZ Prime Minister John Key has made CNN – more international publicity for all the wrong reasons?

Seen this Kiwibloggers?
______________________________________________________

New Zealand PM John Key under fire for participating in ‘prison rape’ radio joke
By Tim Hume, CNN

Updated 1754 GMT (0154 HKT) December 17, 2015

New Zealand Prime Minister John Key speaks at a press conference in Wellington earlier this month.
Story highlights

New Zealand’s PM was involved in a radio station joke which referred to prison rape
His participation drew criticism and sparked a petition against him

He has made a series of questionable appearances on radio shows

(CNN)New Zealand Prime Minister John Key has been criticized for participating in a radio show stunt in which the hosts appeared to make light of prison rape.

During an appearance on New Zealand radio station The Rock on Wednesday, Key played along with a request from the radio hosts to get inside a cage in the studio.

Once in the cage, host Tom Furniss dropped a bar of soap and asked Key to pick it up, as those present howled in laughter.

Key complied, and Furniss told him: “You’ve got a pretty little mouth, Prime Minister.”

“Dropping the soap” is a reference to prison rape. And Furniss’ line references one in the film “Deliverance,” in which a man is raped by two other men.
………”

__________________________________________________

Yep – that’s the sort of Prime Ministerial class act that makes me proud to be a New Zealander.

NOT.

Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
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December 18, 2015 9:26am
stephieboy

EAD, was the Advent service at Westminster a whites only affair or was their a distinctive multicultural ambience to the congregation that may of unsettled you ?

Again , in what ways do your think your brain is physiologically different and superior to an African’s brain ,some of whom may of been amongst the very same congregation ?
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December 18, 2015 9:26am
Keeping Stock

Ok Kiwibloggers – for INFORMED debate – here’s the ‘other side’ of the story?

Hager house raid unlawful

Thursday, 17 December 2015

By David Fisher…

If you’re TRULY talking about “informed” debate Penny, David Fisher is not a good example to quote. He was donkey-deep with Dotcom, and donkey-deep in the dissemination of information ILLEGALLY hacked from Cameron Slater.

That you, as a Mayoral candidate, upstanding citizen and all that, seemingly condones the hack on Slater speaks volumes. It’s not what a true anti-corruption and transparency watchdog should be supporting, because whatever you may think of Slater, hacking his personal information was a criminal offence, and all those associated in the hack and subsequent dissemination of hacked information are equally guilty.
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December 18, 2015 9:26am
Kimbo

Like the Urewera surveillance case, yet again the police are being hauled over the coals…for failing to interpret/divine ahead of time how an appellant judge will subsequently rule in what is ultimately a test case. And as that case was a split decision by the Supreme Court, it is the old story: “nine lawyers, ten opinions…”

And as I posted yesterday, if the judge who issued the original search warrant didn’t know who Nicky Hager is, and what he purports to do for a living after the clusterfuck of a derailed 2015 General Election Hager (and Kim Dot Com) engineered, then he lives a very sheltered life…
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December 18, 2015 9:30am
igm

Public Dog: Hager, yourself, and the serial litigant clarify the adage “Birds of a Feather . . . ” Your views, opinion, and posts to me, are like you: Worthless.
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December 18, 2015 9:30am
Yoza

Viking2 (13,547 comments) says:
December 18th, 2015 at 9:01 am

Penny,
Wrong.
Hager isn’t a journo. He is a book writer.

That, I believe is still to be sorted in court. So the ruling may yet be wrong.

James Stephenson (2,782 comments) says:
December 18th, 2015 at 9:03 am

Hager isn’t a journo. He is a ~~book writer~~ political activist.

Fixed etc.

Nicky Hager is a highly respected and internationally recognised investigative journalist. What I think you two are trying to say is Nicky Hager isn’t an establishment propagandist and anyone who isn’t an establishment propagandist doesn’t qualify as a journalist.
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December 18, 2015 9:30am
James Stephenson

Should be hung for treason.

That’s probably going a wee bit far, but a good shoe-ing out the back of the Station would have been an excellent use of Police resources.

If the Police were really as “politicised” as Hager’s cheerleaders claim, that’s exactly what they would have done…
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December 18, 2015 9:31am
Kimbo

@ Yoza

Nicky Hager is a highly respected and internationally recognised investigative journalist. What I think you two are trying to say is Nicky Hager isn’t an establishment propagandist and anyone who isn’t an establishment propagandist doesn’t qualify as a journalist.

Among the international fringe anarchist community, and also those of the general left-wing twitterati/chardonnay socialists set who have not bothered to check out the fine-print of Hager’s ‘pedigree papers’…agreed. Which is fair enough, as our system of democracy allows that…as long as you do it within the law.
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December 18, 2015 9:35am
Yoza

Kimbo (4,068 comments) says:
December 18th, 2015 at 9:19 am

@ mikenmild

Whether people don’t like what a journalist publishes is not a good test of whether the publication was in the public interest.

Agreed. A test Hager himself did not ultimately apply to a fellow member of his profession.

Care to elaborate. Bearing in mind, the term ‘public interest’ is what qualifies the information being propagated as so significant to the public good its method of discovery is of little consequence.
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December 18, 2015 9:36am
G152

So we have a judge who doesn’t know who Hager is…
I wonder how it avoided all those news items around last
election when Hager was waving his ‘book’ on every
program thoughout…
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December 18, 2015 9:36am
Shawn Herles

Stephiebot’s multicultural dividend, coming to NZ women if stephiebot gets his way.

http://www.barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/B-erELMIQAAhXGp.jpg

https://images47.fotki.com/v1479/photos/1/1222605/5411528/rape9-vi.gif
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December 18, 2015 9:36am
notrotsky

@ Penny Dim

Talking of public disgraces …

http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/video-hysterical-scenes-during-arrest-of-occupy-protestor-penny-bright-2012012612?ref=video#axzz3uc2CIsjL

Personally I would have found it more humorous if the police had left you there blubbing and wailing like the loon you are.
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December 18, 2015 9:37am
James Stephenson

Nicky Hager isn’t an establishment propagandist and anyone who isn’t an establishment propagandist doesn’t qualify as a journalist.

No, Hager’s a far-left political activist. There are plenty of examples of what a campaigning “anti-establishment” journalist looks like but I’ll just give the example of Bryan Bruce.
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December 18, 2015 9:38am
stephieboy

Shawn Herles,

I would be careful about believing everything about what Breitbart claims,e.g

Breitbart gets the wrong Loretta Lynch in Whitewater claim,

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/nov/10/breitbart/breitbart-gets-wrong-loretta-lynch-whitewater-clai/

You latest tirade suggest that even Breitbart could have some real uses for you .

BTW Do you believe like EAD that Africans have inferior brains to white brains ?
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December 18, 2015 9:41am
calendar girl

Griff @ 08:18am –

“Dear dear Maggy the anti science loon.”

Outbursts of personal abuse demean the value of any worthwhile comments you may contribute.
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December 18, 2015 9:41am
dime

“and lowering yourself to the level of juvenile prison rape ‘humour’.”

yeah yeah prison rape humour is funny, it always has been and it always will be.

probably not as funny if youve been someones bitch but meh

To quote a Megadeth song:

“Boy! … Your soul better belong to Jesus! …
Hmmm-mmm cause your ass belongs to me!”
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December 18, 2015 9:42am
stigie

“Care to elaborate. Bearing in mind, the term ‘public interest’ is what qualifies the information being propagated as so significant to the public good its method of discovery is of little consequence”.

Yep, i can see clearly now. It’s ok when the left do it !~
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December 18, 2015 9:43am
Yoza

Kimbo (4,069 comments) says:
December 18th, 2015 at 9:30 am

Like the Urewera surveillance case, yet again the police are being hauled over the coals…for failing to interpret/divine ahead of time how an appellant judge will subsequently rule in what is ultimately a test case. And as that case was a split decision by the Supreme Court, it is the old story: “nine lawyers, ten opinions…”

The police are being hauled over the coals for acting in the way security forces carry on in totalitarian dictatorships while the establishment is desperately trying to promote the illusion we live in a free and democratic society. They are embarrassingly clumsy in their attempts to silence dissent. This latest humiliation is just another in a series of blunders.
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December 18, 2015 9:45am
mikenmild

dime
I’d suggest that jokes about prison rape are rapidly declining in acceptability. I don’t want to be a killjoy, but there’s nothing inherently funny about rape, is there?
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December 18, 2015 9:45am
publicwatchdog

FYI Kiwibloggers – from Wikipedia:

“Nicky Hager (born 1958) is a New Zealand investigative journalist.

He has produced six books since 1996, covering topics such as intelligence networks, environmental issues and politics.

He is the only New Zealand member of the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists.”

I for one don’t follow the logic that an ‘investigate journalist’ can only write articles – not books?

Have those Kiwibloggers who are so critical of Nicky Hagar’s book ‘Dirty Politics’ actually READ it?

If you have – I think you would understand the ‘public interest’ argument?

Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
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December 18, 2015 9:46am
Kimbo

@ mikenmild

Whether people don’t like what a journalist publishes is not a good test of whether the publication was in the public interest.

Agreed. A test Hager himself did not ultimately apply to a fellow member of his profession.

Care to elaborate. Bearing in mind, the term ‘public interest’ is what qualifies the information being propagated as so significant to the public good its method of discovery is of little consequence.

He he he. I had a feeling you would be back for more on that one, my clause-checking friend.

Ultimately Hager argues his sources should be protected so he, as a journalist can publish that which he deems in the public interest. As does Cam Slater…yet Hager did not respect that convention concerning Slater’s sources.

It’s not that hard, mikey. But of course, “no, but Hager decided it was in the public interest to publish…” Yes, we know mikey. But like you said originally,

“Whether people” – including Hager in particular –

“…don’t like what a journalist publishes” – including Slater in particular –

“…is not a good test” – whether by a judge, a Kiwblogger..or a journalist –

“…of whether the publication was in the public interest”.

Precisely.
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December 18, 2015 9:48am
publicwatchdog

Won in the High Court against Auckland Council in the Occupy Auckland matter.

Seems some Kiwibloggers have (conveniently) missed that bit?

Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
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December 18, 2015 9:51am
stigie

Lets get someone to hack Penny’s computer and get a investigative journalist to publish her contents.

What would you say to that Penny ? Would it be in the public interest ?
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December 18, 2015 9:52am
Yoza

stigie (2,963 comments) says:
December 18th, 2015 at 9:43 am

“Care to elaborate. Bearing in mind, the term ‘public interest’ is what qualifies the information being propagated as so significant to the public good its method of discovery is of little consequence”.

Yep, i can see clearly now. It’s ok when the left do it !~

Interesting that you define anything in the public good as ‘left’.
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December 18, 2015 9:52am
dime

“dime
I’d suggest that jokes about prison rape are rapidly declining in acceptability. I don’t want to be a killjoy, but there’s nothing inherently funny about rape, is there?”

prison rape is not so much lol funny.. its more of a piss taking thing.

if we were in the US, not as funny as its out of control eg more men are raped in the US than women.

Deliverance jokes – always funny. “squeal like a pig boy” etc gold.
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December 18, 2015 9:55am
Albert_Ross

You’re actually quite wrong about me EAD, I am not self-loathing at all. I love Christmas carols, have sung in many a carol concert and place enormous value on the achievements of Western civilization which I think superior in many ways to any other.

None of this is undermined or weakened by the recognition that others have different cultures and different values. On the contrary, an informed choice of a culture, having looked at and learned a bit about others, is surely worth more than an unthinking, incurious acceptance of it because one knows no different.

You seem to think that “declining to force others to observe Christian traditions” – which Susan Devoy has done – equates to “belittling Christians” – which she has not. I disagree. A culture is weakened, however, by attempting to force it on those others. That undermines its moral authority, and suggests that its proponents don’t have much confidence in the superiority of their culture.
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December 18, 2015 9:55am
publicwatchpuppy

Hi Big Dog!!

We missed you yesterday, I looked and looked and couldn’t see any posts from you, it made me sad.

I answered some questions for you, I hope thats OK?

Also I think we should run your campaign talking about a BRIGHTer future! Clever aye… I’m surprised no-one else has used that phrase, it’s catchy!

PWP
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December 18, 2015 9:56am
Ross12

fernglas

Thank you for your two posts –clarifies things for me, at least but just to double check. The ruling says it was unlawful because the form was not filled out correctly and the Police did not say to the District Court judge that Hager was a journalist. Also the DC Judge probably should have pointed out the error to the Police. Does that sum it up ?

All the stuff by Nibblet &co seems to be stretching the ruling to cover a few rear ends and to justify previous articles written.
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December 18, 2015 9:57am
publicwatchdog

Kimbo and James Stephenson – have YOU actually read Nicky Hager’s book ‘Dirty Politics’ (cover to cover) yourselves?

Yes or no?

Kind regards

Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate
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December 18, 2015 9:57am
mikenmild

Kimbo
That seems quite a roundabout way of agreeing with my statement. But thank you.
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December 18, 2015 9:57am
Yoza

Kimbo (4,070 comments) says:
December 18th, 2015 at 9:48 am

He he he. I had a feeling you would be back for more on that one, my clause-checking friend.

Ultimately Hager argues his sources should be protected so he, as a journalist can publish that which he deems in the public interest. As does Cam Slater…yet Hager did not respect that convention concerning Slater’s sources.

I’m fairly sure Slater’s use of hacked material was to further some personal vendetta Slater was pursuing, Hager’s use of hacked material was to inform the public of the unscrupulous activity of the National government and their communication network.
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December 18, 2015 9:58am
igm

milkwimp: Get something straight. I do not drink, don’t believe in the waste of time and money, plus the detrimental aspect of it in employment. As you are a public servant, it may be acceptable to drink during working hours, as you post on different blogs during the time that taxpayers are paying your inflated and unearned salary. It possibly may help relieve your befuddled and booze-ridden guilt by accusing someone else of being drunk, but in this instance you are once again wrong. Presumably you are hiding behind PSA representation to maintain your public service position as you definitely have a real problem with booze.
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December 18, 2015 9:58am
Kimbo

@ Yaza (sorry, mikenmild, lost track of who was posting)

Flip it over, Yoza

Forget the police involvement. Say, some day soon, courtesy of an illegal act that others here would deem (to quote you) “its method of discovery is of little consequence”, it is revealed courtesy of, say Kiwiblog, that Rawshark was say, a high-level Green Party official, acting as an unofficial but nonetheless ultimately-authorised campaign of systematic rat-fucking.

Would it be in the public interest for us to know…or, let me guess, you would consider that an act of illegal violence and breaching of individual liberties by the reactionary forces of the establishment?
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December 18, 2015 10:00am
Kimbo

@ Yoza

I’m fairly sure Slater’s use of hacked material was to further some personal vendetta Slater was pursuing, Hager’s use of hacked material was to inform the public of the unscrupulous activity of the National government and their communication network.

Yes, and that political prism through which you view life has nothing to do with that assessment, or helps you or Hager decide what is (to quote you) “in the public interest”, does it?! Bye, Yoza…
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December 18, 2015 10:02am
publicwatchdog

Oh Stigie – you’re such an old silly billy!

I don’t do covert ‘secret squirrel’ stuff.

If the authorities want to know what I’m up to – they just need to check their emails – or read General Debate’ on Kiwiblog 🙂

But hey!

Thanks for continuing to read and comment on my posts 😉

Good on you.

Kind regards

Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
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December 18, 2015 10:03am
fernglas

Ross12
Judge Malosi wouldn’t have issued the warrant if she thought there was anything wrong with the application. The High Court decided otherwise because of the lack of full disclosure.
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December 18, 2015 10:05am
Kimbo

@ publicwatchdog

Kimbo and James Stephenson – have YOU actually read Nicky Hager’s book ‘Dirty Politics’ (cover to cover) yourselves?

Yes or no?

Why bother…when you ran a serialisation for months on this site?! 😉
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December 18, 2015 10:05am
James Stephenson

Yes or no?

No. Why would I need to?

Hagers public admission that he picked and chose what to include from the hack tells me everything I need to know. If I’m going to take notice of someone’s joining of dots, I want to see all the dots, not just the ones they think are needed to create the picture they want to produce.

That’s what make Hager an activist and not a journalist. He’s not painting a picture of the facts, he’s creating a charicature.
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December 18, 2015 10:07am
Fletch

My totally spoiler-filled mini-review of the new Star Wars. Don’t read if you haven’t seen the movie.

http://nzconservative.blogspot.co.nz/2015/12/star-wars-force-awakens-my-spoiler.html
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December 18, 2015 10:07am
Kimbo

@ mikenmild

Kimbo
That seems quite a roundabout way of agreeing with my statement. But thank you.

Yep. In the light of the decision, the cops should have included the description, “journalist” on the warrant application. No use whining Wayne Barnes got stuff wrong when you picked Luke McAllister and Sitiveni Sivivatu and left Aaron Mauger and Doug Howlett on the bench 😉
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December 18, 2015 10:08am
Fletch

EAD, I am quite partial to this one, myself. When all the voices come in at :50, it’s like Heaven on Earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T3Dv0z8pI8
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December 18, 2015 10:10am

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