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December 10, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 10 December 2015

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General Debate

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Griff

ROFL
What lie did I make about Steyn All in red ?
I even linked to the judges statement in the second appeal that was turned down?

Oh and selectively quoting aspies on wiki
I can do that too you know
Asperger also called his young patients “little professors”,[4] and believed some would be capable of exceptional achievement and original thought later in life

“In the social world, there is no great benefit to a precise eye for detail, but in the worlds of maths, computing, cataloging, music, linguistics, engineering, and science, such an eye for detail can lead to success rather than failure.”
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December 10, 2015 6:29pm
ex-golfer

The silence from Kelvin Davis and Bevan Hanlon is deafening:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/74917044/inmate-stabbed-in-pack-attack-at-christchurch-mens-prison.html

http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/72743811/Inmate-allegedly-uses-pencil-to-stab-at-Manawatu-Prison

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/74047341/stabbing-in-auckland-prison-at-paremoremo

I don’t care that these crims are stabbing eachother daily – bring it on – but weren’t we told yesterday that a public service run prison would be SO much better than privately run? And didn’t Hanlon proclaim on the radio this morning that Prison Managers should be sacked if this sort of thing happened on their watch? We wouldn’t have any managers left.
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December 10, 2015 6:31pm
mikenmild

When you consider that violent incidents are not uncommon in prisons, then you realise that Serco must have been exceptionally incompetent to be sacked from managing Mt Eden.
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December 10, 2015 6:33pm
Rowan

Oh dear looks like Gripp is high again, time for some more meds nutcase!!
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December 10, 2015 6:39pm
ex-golfer

Given most of Serco staff are ex Corrections officers, I would agree Milky.
Typical incompetent and unaccountable public service huh?
Glad you agree.
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December 10, 2015 6:40pm
Gabby

Paul Goldsmith’s done his bit to keep wealth creators safe from a vigorous shanking. Apparently the prospect of prison might have ‘a chilling effect on pro-competitive behaviour between companies’. It wouldn’t do to discourage criminal activity among the suits.
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December 10, 2015 6:45pm
Reid

Murderous neocon bastards:

https://medium.com/dan-sanchez/seize-the-chaos-d065f507f0cc

https://medium.com/dan-sanchez/clean-break-to-dirty-wars-d5ebc5fda9f9#.80hmj1toy
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December 10, 2015 6:54pm
mikenmild

I don’t know how Serco managed to fuck up. Maybe they cut things too fine trying to maximise the profit.
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December 10, 2015 6:58pm
nasska

The prison issue is one where the difference in performance between the state & the private sector will be minuscule.The deciding factor is staff levels which coincidentally are the biggest expense. If calls are made to cut costs then staffing is the only variable.

Poor or excellent management is a factor but when you’re trying to stop groups of violent anti social criminals from killing each other the number of staff on the ground is everything.
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December 10, 2015 7:00pm
Reid

http://journal-neo.org/2015/12/08/what-stinks-in-saudi-aint-the-camel-dung/
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December 10, 2015 7:01pm
lilman

BLazoflight,or what ever, I hope every Muslim nut job gets the arse from New Zealand,that will include you
knob.
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December 10, 2015 7:02pm
Viking2

Looking for a His N Her gift this Xmas?

https://www.facebook.com/IntelligentRedneck/photos/a.284816798248256.68761.284739208256015/1001356086594320/?type=3&theater
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December 10, 2015 7:03pm
Viking2

Talking of banning various immigrants form the USA. Remember this?

https://www.facebook.com/IntelligentRedneck/photos/a.284816798248256.68761.284739208256015/1001354669927795/?type=3&theater
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December 10, 2015 7:05pm
publicwatchdog

FYI Kiwibloggers:

URGENT! Pre-Christmas Public Meeting to inform, network and organise re: proposed Auckland Unitary Plan / zoning/ RMA changes.

WHEN: Saturday 12 December 2015

TIME: 10.30am – 12.30pm

WHERE: Tamaki Ex-Services Assn Hall
Corner Turua St / Polygon Rd
ST HELIERS

MAP: http://www.eventfinda.co.nz/venue/auckland-tamaki-ex-services-hall

Many citizens and residents across the Auckland region are deeply concerned about proposed zoning changes that may lead to non-notified multi-story developments, in which they will potentially have no say, but will potentially have a huge impact on their lives and immediate environment.

Has lawful ‘due process’ been followed regarding the Auckland ‘Spatial Plan’ and subsequent amendments?

Were the Auckland population growth projections which spawned legislation such as that for the ‘Special Housing Areas’ (SHAs), lawfully and evidentially based?

Will proposed changes to the RMA make things worse?

Groups and concerned citizens who want to meet to discuss these issues, and co-ordinate ideas and action to help stop the Auckland region effectively becoming a ‘dictatorship for developers’, are most welcome to attend.

Meeting convened by Penny Bright, assisted by fellow concerned citizens.
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December 10, 2015 7:07pm
DJP6-25

Manolo 10:46 am. I think Mr Comey may be looking to his post-0 job prospects. I guess he even cares about the integrity of his organization too.
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December 10, 2015 7:14pm
nasska

Nine more sleeps until you’re sentenced for misleading the court Penny.

And you won’t qualify for home detention! 🙂
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December 10, 2015 7:17pm
Reid

The issue with prison privatisation is writ large in the US where its rampant.

There, the majority of inmates are black, in prison for drug possession not supply, paid by the taxpayer, to the prison corporations.

It’s like this today because the corruption in US “democracy” has, over the decades, engineered the legal situation accordingly, thanks to the lobbyists of said prison corporations. Assisted of course by the silence of the idiot media in exposing the situation as it developed.

That’s not happening here, because the lobbyist, political donation, corporate relationship is not on the same level here as it is in the US, it’s not even on the same planet.

But that’s what’s happening, in the land of the free and the home of the brave, and it’s happened under the “rigorous” eyes of the idiot [actually corrupt and evil if truth be told] media over there and we used to say back in the 80’s, what’s happening in California today will happen here in twenty years.

I’m not against the principle of prison privatisation, but when you look carefully with eyes wide open at the implementations overseas, you see shades of the failed, corrupt and indeed evil US implementation in every single Western democracy.

It’s the linkage between the corporations and the politicians, not just in campaign donations but in sinecures after the politicians retire, that WE HAVE to have protection against, and ALL of those connections therefore need to be open, public, transparent, 100%, for ever and ever, with no exceptions, even for a small gift.

ALL contracts and ALL financials for said corporations therefore MUST be public property. There must be nothing withheld, if privatisation in this particular, specific area, is to proceed.

And BTW, note that once again, surprise surprise, Key’s had some focus groups on it and decided the popular route is the right route, regardless of financials, regardless of anything else.

Wow. I bet the sheeple think he’s the best PM we’ve ever had.

And the sheeple go:

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Don’t you.
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December 10, 2015 7:17pm
Captain Mainwaring

Speaking of Serco, does anyone remember the regular Mt. Eden prison riots of a few decades ago, plus the more recent ones at Pare and other prisons?
How many of these were Serco involved in?
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December 10, 2015 7:18pm
Captain Mainwaring

“Meeting convened by Penny Bright, assisted by fellow concerned citizens.”

A fucking good reason to stay away then.
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December 10, 2015 7:19pm
Reid

What Serco’s contract should be engineered around is the recidivism rate reduction.

There should be bonuses equivalent to the cost of keeping people locked up in the public system paid to Serco IF and ONLY IF Serco’s recidivism rate drops below that of the public system and stays dropped for x percent of its inmates for x crime(s) over x period.

THAT is the only relevant and correct incentive and the benefit to the public system is, that Serco’s techniques in earning that bonus would, as built into the contract, be made available to the public system to implement as well.

That’s the only sensible way to design the contract.

What’s the bet crusher doesn’t do it like that.

If she does, she rates higher than Key, in my book.
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December 10, 2015 7:30pm
stigie

Penny:

Why dont you question your electricity supplier to see if their spending is transparent and accountable by asking them for invoices from contractors etc. No Penny, they would cut your fucking power off if you didn’t pay up.
As for the Auckland Council, they are pathetic letting you use their services that other ratepayers are paying for.
Why haven’t the Council after 8 fucking years cut your services off, you would be Auckland’s biggest bludger by far !~
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December 10, 2015 7:31pm
Jack5

Rodney Hide seems to have embroiled Whale Oil in Hide’s battle with software firm Xero over alleged release of information related to the affairs of Christchurch bankrupt Dave Henderson, a veteran ACT supporter and a great mate of Hide’s.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11559030
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December 10, 2015 7:32pm
Griff

Reid the drug wars predate the privatizing of prisons
I think you are close to the point but have to include an lot of others like police,FDA and the anti drug lobby groups into your paradigm . All of them rely on the continuing of the drug wars to get funding and as such should not be allowed to dictate policy due to their conflict of interest .
All these organizations as well as sensationalist media and self serving politicians are responsible for the horrible number of innocent# locked up in US prisons.
#Innocent as in the crimes they are charged with has no victim and at most is a health issue not one of criminal justice .
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December 10, 2015 7:33pm
mikenmild

Reid
Mt Eden is a remand prison, so reducing recidivism is not really part of the thing there.
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December 10, 2015 7:33pm
stigie

“Nine more sleeps until you’re sentenced for misleading the court Penny”.

I must have the dates wrong Nasska, thought it was the 15th ?
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December 10, 2015 7:37pm
DJP6-25

Manolo 1:46 pm. I hope they’re not used.
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December 10, 2015 7:37pm
nasska

Nope. It’s the 21st stigie.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/72795826/auckland-rates-protester-penny-bright-wins-another-day-in-court

Edit: David G was going along to help. Hope he’s got the date right! 🙂
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December 10, 2015 7:39pm
stigie

Thanks Nasska.

BTW, nice photo of Penny you put up, but ive seen some shockers in my time ?
Garrett would be happy to go along with her looking so bloody sexy.
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December 10, 2015 7:44pm
Griff

For his sake I hope not
Just imagine the banshee in a domestic disagreement for a moment nasska.
Enough to make a grown man quake in his red bands and run screaming for the back paddock to grub gorse all day.
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December 10, 2015 7:45pm
Reid

Reid the drug wars predate the privatizing of prisons

Yes. Amazing isn’t it that as soon as the US announces a war on something, it immediately gets much, much worse. A bit like our own widdle Liarbore Party’s “crisis” announcements.

How peculiar.

I mean for example, since the Taliban had almost completely eliminated opium production from Afghanisatan, you’da thought the US woulda kept it up using their satellites and chemical defoliation capabilities, but no, by round 2005 it was up and running and has since returned to record levels.

How peculiar.

When it was so very easy for them with the technology and manpower they had at the time to keep it down at the levels they found it at. Perhaps there are people and institutions who find the money it makes useful for black budgets.

Drugs and arms mate. Biggest markets in the world. Energy is 3rd.

Says something about the human race, doesn’t it.

Mt Eden is a remand prison, so reducing recidivism is not really part of the thing there.

Quite so mm but the principle is sound isn’t it. Of course you wouldn’t want to admit that, would you, it came from me, after all, therefore it’s automatically wrong no matter what it is, isn’t it.
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December 10, 2015 7:49pm
nasska

Penny has been slightly more ‘composed’ during her photo opportunities as of late stigie.

Still this snap of her car has been uncovered:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ix5nae4gukqw645/Mad%20woman%20with%20cats%203.jpg?dl=0
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December 10, 2015 7:50pm
Nostradamus

Stigie and Nasska:

Here’s a summary:

1. Penny’s last District Court hearing was on 7 October 2015.
2. The hearing was adjourned until 21 December 2015.
3. The adjournment was on the basis that Penny advised the District Court that she didn’t recall receiving a supporting affidavit from Auckland Council.
4. Auckland Council has produced evidence – including one of Penny’s own emails – that shows she received that supporting affidavit in May – 5 months earlier.
5. Penny appears to have misled the District Court.

David Garrett offers legal services, but unless he acts for Penny on a pro bono basis, he’d be well-advised to ask for payment in advance.
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December 10, 2015 7:51pm
stigie

This from Rowan further up the thread, funny how Dad4justice talks the same language…????

“Oh dear looks like Gripp is high again, time for some more meds nutcase”!!
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December 10, 2015 7:52pm
nasska

What’s the maximum sentence for misleading a Court Nostra?
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December 10, 2015 7:53pm
mikenmild

It really isn’t my fault that you’re wrong all the time, Reid.
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December 10, 2015 7:55pm
stigie

“he’d be well-advised to ask for payment in advance”.

Of course there’s always other means of payment…?
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December 10, 2015 7:58pm
Nostradamus

Nasska:

What’s the maximum sentence for misleading a Court Nostra?

I’d need to look it up – but I’m sure Penny knows!
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December 10, 2015 7:59pm
nasska

This blog is read by gentle people so let’s not go there stigie. 🙂
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December 10, 2015 8:01pm
itstricky

Rodney Hide seems to have embroiled Whale Oil in Hide’s battle with software firm Xero over alleged release of information related to the affairs of Christchurch bankrupt Dave Henderson, a veteran ACT supporter and a great mate of Hide’s.

I imagine David Garrett will be here any second to make comment on WO’s setence structure and grammar:

Slater did not answer phone calls or emails about Drury’s claims, but responded on Twitter to questions with a crude depiction of a raised middle finger.

“Another misleading and anti-Slater attack from [the Herald] designed to try an affect [sic] competitors,” Slater said.
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December 10, 2015 8:02pm
Nostradamus

Nasska:

This is an educational blog! After all, thanks to the likes of Starboard/Dirty Harry, how else would we learn about things like glory holes and felching?
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December 10, 2015 8:04pm
stigie

Gentle people or not Nasska, we all know that DG would love to give her a damn good rodgering and good on him.

There you go, someone had to say it !~
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December 10, 2015 8:07pm
Viking2

The competition watchdog has launched legal action against supermarket giant Woolworths for unconscionable conduct over its dealings with suppliers to urgently reduce its half year profit shortfall after discovering a $50 million hole in its books.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission instituted proceedings in the Federal Court alleging Woolworths acted in contravention of the Australian Consumer Law to eke $18.1 million from its suppliers.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/retail/accc-accuses-woolworths-of-unconscionable-conduct-20151210-glkfz2.html#ixzz3ttt84HBP
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook
=========================
you just can never trust the Aussies be it cricket, rugby, supermarkets, car salesmen, lawyers or politicans.
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December 10, 2015 8:27pm
nasska

“Make the most you can of the Indian Hemp seed and sow it everywhere.”

-President George Washington, 1794
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December 10, 2015 8:28pm
Reid

felching

I don’t know.

I don’t think I want to know.

Like Barbara Bush:

But why should we hear about body bags and deaths, and how many, what day it’s gonna happen, and how many this or that or what do you suppose? Or, I mean, it’s not relevant. So, why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that, and watch him (her husband, former president George H. W. Bush) suffer?

Yes.

Reality and consequences of your very own husband’s actions.

How ghastly.

Especially when you’re Aleister Crowley’s daughter.
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December 10, 2015 8:32pm
Reid

You can always tell when the sheeple are shocked. There’s an interrupt while they furiously google the new info.

How funny.

Even though it’s been around for decades. Along with millions of bytes of other data.

But open minds only need apply.

That’s the diff sheeple.

All you need to do is that.

Then, you’re a sheeple no more.

Blue pill or red pill?
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December 10, 2015 8:48pm
Manolo

The European elites are digging their own graves:
http://www.politico.eu/article/europe-unites-in-fear-of-le-pen-right-wing-surge-france/
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December 10, 2015 8:55pm
Griff

Not really reid
We often get periods when every one is of doing useful shit not playing on the blog.
I know who Crowley was probably others do as well most of us are reasonable well informed about the world
It is surprising you got that many up ticks for it though.
My favorite reference to him was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens as the demon.
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December 10, 2015 9:00pm
Manolo

More acts of Muslim love across the Tasman:
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/dec/10/anti-terrorism-raids-in-south-west-sydney-target-15-year-old-and-one-other-young-person

Police will charge two people arrested on Thursday and another three already in custody with conspiring to prepare a terrorist act, probably an attack on a police building in Sydney.

Ibrahim Ghazzawy, 20, from Raby, and a 15-year-old from Georges Hall who cannot be named were arrested after at least four early-morning raids across Sydney’s south-west.
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December 10, 2015 9:13pm
Reid

Griff I like you a lot for many reasons, but also for many reasons, you’re also a sheeple.

Your biggest problem is falling hook line and sinker for the AGW bollocks but that’s just a sideline in the general scheme of things if you want not to be a sheep. It’s a package deal I think, one either buys the whole sheeple deal or one doesn’t. Suspicions round the edges often arise but at the end of the day, abandoning the gween gween meadows of happiness and bleating takes a paradigm shift and nothing less will do.

And if you fanatically adhere, as you do, to one part of the sheeple package: in your case AGW and in others the “war on tewwor,” then it’s terrifically hard to abandon all of that for actual freedom, real democracy, and true insight.

And that, of course, is precisely why they’ve packaged it up like that in the first place.
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December 10, 2015 9:14pm
nasska

….”You can always tell when the sheeple are shocked. There’s an interrupt while they furiously google the new info”….

Put me down as a ‘Ho Hum’ instead Reid. If George H W Bush had married Aleister Crowley then it might have been of interest.
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December 10, 2015 9:15pm
mikenmild

Reid’s been on about the Bush dynasty’s supposed heritage before. Yada yada yada.
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December 10, 2015 9:29pm
Griff

Actually reid I am busy reading about theory of mind as applied to autism.
Fascinating subject
I dont get much into the terror thing because I see many are busy scaring the fuck out of them self’s and are actually talking some silly shit that is walking away from our civilizations values . Its like a bunch of kids scaring the smeg out of each other sitting around a camp fire and about as mature
The AGW thing makes me an outsider on here so you can not call me a sheepie at lest in reference to this blog as the sheep are those who are ignorant and deny without knowledge . I dont “adhere like a fanatic” reid my brain works differently than yours or any normal persons when it comes to things that interest me. The logic fails so often displayed by those that deny global warming offend my senses .
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December 10, 2015 9:30pm
Reid

Reid’s been on about the Bush dynasty’s supposed heritage before. Yada yada yada.

A typical “intellectual” rebuttal from Slimy.

Let’s hope your Ministerial briefing papers aren’t quite so vapid mike. Although if they were we all know most of them wouldn’t even notice. Don’t we.

The AGW thing makes me an outsider on here so you can not call me a sheepie at lest in reference to this blog as the sheep are those who are ignorant and deny without knowledge.

Griff the knowledge you lack on AGW is the way the science is twisted and the political agendi behind it, that’s why you’re a sheep on it. Look at those, with eyes wide open, and you can’t mistake the fact it’s not science, it’s hollyweird. The fact you’ve intellectually convinced yourself it’s the former and cannot therefore be the latter, is why you’re quite the sheeple on it. But you don’t have to be. OTY. There’s evidence aplenty, to an open mind.
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December 10, 2015 9:32pm
Griff

Actually reid the political dimension of agw is capture by those who deny the reality
This is easily discerned by the insistence often stated that belief in agw is a lefty thing.
It aint the royal society or any of the other scientific body’s that support the conclusions of science are not in the political realm they are scientific.
There was a recent paper in the proceedings of the national academy of science that used text and network data analysis to identify were the rhetoric was coming from.
It is if you like a neocon conspiracy to distort the scientific reality .
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/11/18/1509433112.abstract

Abstract

Drawing on large-scale computational data and methods, this research demonstrates how polarization efforts are influenced by a patterned network of political and financial actors. These dynamics, which have been notoriously difficult to quantify, are illustrated here with a computational analysis of climate change politics in the United States. The comprehensive data include all individual and organizational actors in the climate change countermovement (164 organizations), as well as all written and verbal texts produced by this network between 1993–2013 (40,785 texts, more than 39 million words). Two main findings emerge. First, that organizations with corporate funding were more likely to have written and disseminated texts meant to polarize the climate change issue. Second, and more importantly, that corporate funding influences the actual thematic content of these polarization efforts, and the discursive prevalence of that thematic content over time. These findings provide new, and comprehensive, confirmation of dynamics long thought to be at the root of climate change politics and discourse. Beyond the specifics of climate change, this paper has important implications for understanding ideological polarization more generally, and the increasing role of private funding in determining why certain polarizing themes are created and amplified. Lastly, the paper suggests that future studies build on the novel approach taken here that integrates large-scale textual analysis with social networks.

and the sheepie go baaaaaaaaa .
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December 10, 2015 9:51pm
Ryan Sproull

Griff I like you a lot for many reasons, but also for many reasons, you’re also a sheeple.

Surely this should be “a sherson”, not “a sheeple”.
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December 10, 2015 9:52pm
Reid

Does a sherson have a head full of concrete, jump when going through an open gate for no reason at all and go

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

and

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Ryan?

I think not.
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December 10, 2015 10:09pm
RF

I am sure there are one or two supporters of the possum lady penny lurking here. I might suggest you chip in for a new toothbrush and a tube of KY for her. I hear the inmates like fresh blood and some of the more butch types will want to be her companion. In a caring sort of way……
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December 10, 2015 10:10pm
Reid

Dedicated to RF and his fellow travelers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjJ1bsnxxhs
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December 10, 2015 10:16pm
sam green

RF. Stop being a gross POS.
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December 10, 2015 10:17pm
Ryan Sproull

Stay classy, RF. Way past your bed time.
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December 10, 2015 10:19pm
cha

Cm’on RF, tell us all about your time in the DPS and the fucking big gun you reckon you had.
/
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December 10, 2015 10:47pm
Left Right and Centre

The captain of a new very pricey stealth US Navy destroyer is called James Kirk. No shit. And his engineer is called Scottie.
Ok – I might’ve made up the second part.
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December 11, 2015 3:07am
Manolo

Polls for you:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-donald-trump-top-ted-cruz-second-hillary-clinton-over-bernie-sanders/

35% of Republican primary voters support Trump, up 13 points since October, and his highest level of support in CBS News polling. Ted Cruz (16%) has moved into second place, while Ben Carson, who led the October poll, has dropped to third.
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December 11, 2015 7:39am
mikenmild

Trump and Cruz both polling upon the back of their latest craziness. They point the way to the Republican nomination: it’s a race to say the most outrageous, least true things that plays to the ugliest prejudices that they can pander to.
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December 11, 2015 7:47am
Manolo

Harrison Ford receives sane advice from our own Griff:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-09/harrison-ford-hits-out-at-global-inaction-on-climate-change/7015380

During an interview Ford said the consequences of inaction were dire.

“Nature will take care of itself — nature doesn’t need people, people need nature to survive. “The planet will be OK, there just won’t be any damn people on it”, Ford said.
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December 11, 2015 7:48am

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Hompaddock
Seymour’s opponents need better arguments
Point of Order
Continuous Process Improvement
No Minister
New Zealand government urged to back ICC arrest warrants for Israeli leaders without equivocation
The Daily Blog
Popuphobia’s Javier Milei Problem
Utopia
Open mike 22/11/2024
The Standard
Drawn
No Right Turn
The transgender agenda sunk Kamala
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
What does “reciprocity” mean in New Zealand laws?
Croaking Cassandra
A Day of Reckoning
NZCPR
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

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