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November 6, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 6 November 2015

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General Debate

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Jack5

Stephie, a post at 1.11 without a question mark.

You have obviously run out of them.

Hope this loan helps:

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Cheers????
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November 6, 2015 1:15pm
Padriv Ustoev

Alluha Akbar.

Stephie has finally heeded the call of Jyhad. Blessed be this brave warrior.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11541131
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November 6, 2015 1:16pm
Fletch

Forbes’ ‘Most Powerful People In The World 2015’ rankings have just come out, and Obama has fallen to third, behind Putin and Merkel.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2015/11/04/the-worlds-most-powerful-people-2015/
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November 6, 2015 1:21pm
Kiwi Dave

Stephieboy, Guy Fawkes day might be an example of colonial cringe, even an indirect celebration of religious oppression and judicial torture, but it’s a lot of fun for kids. How much fun will Parihaka day be?

Perhaps we could get the All Blacks to give up rugby, an upper-class colonial import, for Maori stick games with which they could entertain us on Parihaka day. Undoubtedly, it will provide a riveting spectacle for those of us indifferent to rugby’s allure.
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November 6, 2015 1:26pm
Jim

@padriv – yes also noticed the report on that deranged idiot.

It’s the Herald so I’m slightly skeptical of accuracy, but if true then the guy should be dealt with swiftly and publicly. Like making bomb threats at an airport – this sort of Facebook idiocy should be taken seriously.

Grind him up with assorted other animal bits and make him into dog roll.
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November 6, 2015 1:32pm
stephieboy

Fletch , why do Conservatives like you seem too admire an authoritarian leader like Putin and despite the fact he detests the US so much ?

Maybe Obama should let in a flood of refugees r like Merkel to go back on top ?

Jackie 5 , trying to think of a suitable over the counter laxative for you
.
Get back soon !
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November 6, 2015 1:34pm
Paulus Gnome

@Jack5
re RNZ…
I’ve been noticing it for about 1 week or so….

I heard a bit about it being explained that the BBC call themselves the BBC and not the British Broadcasting Corporation so RNZ have decided that they are up-market enough to consider themselves as worthy companions to the BBC and so have ‘shortened’ the title.

I almost pissed myself writing that; on what planet does Radio New Zealand get to compare themselves to the BBC?

After having the pleasure of the BBC for more than twenty five years, I find that the best RNZ can be compared to the talking pages of Pravda and the North Korean Peoples Radio.

That squeaky little tosser Jack Tame and the numpy who has destroyed National radio in the afternoon, Jesse Mulligan, are just jokes, no gravitas, nothing.

RNZ; following the horrid into oblivion.
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November 6, 2015 1:36pm
Don the Kiwi

There is increasing evidence that it was a bomb planted on the Russian airliner brought down over the Sinai.

If I were ISIS, I think I would be very afraid.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/11/poking_the_russian_bear.html
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November 6, 2015 1:45pm
Andrei

why do Conservatives like you seem too admire an authoritarian leader like Putin and despite the fact he detests the US so much ?

If you actually listened to what VVP says instead of relying upon what Russophobes in the NYT, BBC and CCN say he says you would find out that he doesn’t “detest the US”

But he will not surrender the interests of the Russian people to advance the interests of Western 1%ers

And he will not kiss Barack Obama’s ring the way people like John Key do.
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November 6, 2015 1:47pm
Andrei

There is increasing evidence that it was a bomb planted on the Russian airliner brought down over the Sinai.

If I were ISIS, I think I would be very afraid.

It is the Americans and the Brits who are saying that, the Russians are playing their cards close to their chests but if it is so don’t expect carpet bombing along with ” shock and awe” as the article you linked posits.

The response will be very subtle and extremely nasty for the culprits – a message will be sent and this will probably not even be reported in the West
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November 6, 2015 1:58pm
Brigitte

“Or perhaps it signals they want to transform into a State internet service.”

Hmm, the ‘New Zealand State Internet Service”. Wonder what acronym we could use for that.
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November 6, 2015 2:02pm
Michael

Andrei
Yes , if that airliner was brought down by something that was planted on it then I am sure there will be retribution, but the only problem I have with that is that it won’t be just members of ISIS that will get killed.
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November 6, 2015 2:05pm
Andrei

Michael since the terrorist attack of 9/11 2001 millions of innocents have died in the so called “war on terror” – many of them were not even born when it happened, come from lands, even continents that had absolutely no connection to it.

This is sad but true
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November 6, 2015 2:25pm
Don the Kiwi

Andrei.

I was in Nakhodka, Eastern Russia in 2004 when the muslim terrorists took over that school in Beslan and murdered all those children, and I’ve gotta say the Ruskies didn’t mess around.
I was at a sporting reception with teams from 6 countries around the Pacific rim, and the mayor of the city was giving an address, and he said, ” We will exterminate these criminals” – and they sure did.
Whatever the response, I’m sure it will be measured, and biblically retributive.
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November 6, 2015 2:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

re Radio NZ new branding

here’s Suzy interviewing Paul Thompson about the change, 2 days ago

http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20151104-0827-rnz_chief_executive_explains_new_brand-00.ogg

Someone/anyone… feel free to post a synopsis of the interview; I couldn’t be bothered listening.
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November 6, 2015 2:34pm
Scott Chris

Don the Kiwi (2,031 comments) says:
November 6th, 2015 at 1:45 pm
There is increasing evidence that it was a bomb planted on the Russian airliner brought down over the Sinai.

If I were ISIS, I think I would be very afraid.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the bomb, if there was one, was planted by the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service.

But I’m not going to jump to any conclusions.
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November 6, 2015 2:36pm
Don the Kiwi

Scott Chris.

You’re sounding like a 9/11 conspiracy follower.

Why would the Russian FIS want to kill hundreds of their own civilians? Not plausible.
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November 6, 2015 2:38pm
starboard

“if there was one, was planted by the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service.”

grottchris.. par for the course..full of shit.
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November 6, 2015 2:41pm
Scott Chris

starboard (3,466 comments) says:
November 6th, 2015 at 2:41 pm

grottchris.. par for the course..full of shit.

Oh dear, I think the stalkers in love with me. Eww!
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November 6, 2015 2:44pm
Andrei

It wouldn’t surprise me if the bomb, if there was one, was planted by the
~~Russian Foreign Intelligence Service~~ CIA.

But I’m not going to jump to any conclusions

Why not Scott Chris conspiracy theories are fun

Your version that it was the dastardly Russkis doesn’t make sense though since this incident, whatever the real cause hurts the Russians and the Egyptians big time
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November 6, 2015 2:45pm
DJP6-25

Manolo 9:39 am. Of course he’ll win. Just not on this planet, or in this universe.
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November 6, 2015 2:46pm
cha

And he will not kiss Barack Obama’s ring the way people like John Key do.

He’s way too busy.
/

Speaking at the ceremony on September 23, Putin said, “Tarnishing a great global religion — tarnishing the image of Islam — terrorists of the so-called Islamic State are spreading hatred, killing people, including clergymen, barbarously destroying world cultural-heritage sites.”

He also said the new mosque will be “a source for education, spreading humanist ideas and the true values of Islam.”

The ceremony was attended by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas, Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, and U.S. Ambassador to Russia John Tefft.

http://www.rferl.org/content/erdogan-abbas-moscow-mosque-opening/27264203.html

http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/news-photo/chechen-president-ramzan-kadyrov-attends-an-opening-news-photo/489656902
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November 6, 2015 2:47pm
Fletch

Fletch , why do Conservatives like you seem too admire an authoritarian leader like Putin and despite the fact he detests the US so much ?

I don’t admire Putin. I was pointing out in my comment that America has fallen in world power standings and it is mostly the fault of Obama’s policies weakening his own country. Everything Obama does seems by design to be to weaken America. He has this idea that if America is weaker and other countries are stronger, somehow it will all lead to “equality”, that great liberal utopia which will be gained when everyone is the same. Only, it’s a pipe dream.
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November 6, 2015 2:47pm
stephieboy

Lets just pretend and be a Reid or EAD for a moment that was indeed an Assad Putin inspired false flag pys ops .

cha, wow that will get Manolo, kotow, Jackie 5 etc going . Putin our hero how dare you !
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November 6, 2015 2:48pm
Scott Chris

Andrei (3,428 comments) says:
November 6th, 2015 at 2:45 pm
It wouldn’t surprise me if the bomb, if there was one, was planted by the
~~Russian Foreign Intelligence Service~~ CIA.

Just as possible Andrei. Unlikely, but possible. That’s why I said but I’m not going to jump to any conclusions. Yes irony doesn’t print well sometimes.
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November 6, 2015 2:50pm
Brigitte

Ooh goody, conspiracy time. Okay, here’s mine.

The Israelis are the only ones with the capability of firing a surface-to-air missile to shoot it down. So it was them. They want to implicate ISIS so the Russians will come good on their promise in Syria to wipe them out. That will allow the CIA to then assassinate Assad and leave a power vacuum in Syria for the Zionists to fill as they expand their empire.
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November 6, 2015 2:50pm
stephieboy

Fletch, Obama and America’s decline ? Um actually no . You’ll begin to find the real answers here ,

‘”ron-ass’ Cheney and ‘arrogant’ Rumsfeld damaged America, says George Bush Sr

Former president claims hawkish reaction to 9/11 attacks and desire to ‘get our way in the Middle East’ hurt his son’s administration, says new biography”

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/05/george-bush-senior-iron-ass-cheney-arrogant-rumsfeld-damaged-america

and here too,

“Did the Bush Invasion of Iraq “Create” ISIS?”

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/159589
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November 6, 2015 2:53pm
Scott Chris

Brigitte (284 comments) says:
November 6th, 2015 at 2:50 pm
Ooh goody, conspiracy time. Okay, here’s mine.

My money’s on your theory Brigitte.
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November 6, 2015 2:56pm
waikatogirl

Maggy
(rich ladies only, please)
***
Fussy Maggy!

Who knew that all women are interested in other women!
Sounds like the reports author is projecting her own fantasies on the rest of the female population.
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November 6, 2015 3:07pm
Andrei

LOL Americas decline is nothing to do with partisan domestic politics – it is a Nation that has turned away from God and is rotten to the core.

The rich are getting richer, feeding off the blood of the poor in the third world, while ordinary Americans are getting poorer and the essential infrastructure of the nation falls into decay

The USA has reached levels of degeneracy unseen before in human history e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WIH7CCQWqo
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November 6, 2015 3:11pm
stephieboy

Andrei, I wouldn’t get to carried away if I was you ,

http://www.therussianoligarchs.com

plus,

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gangs-russia-ruthless-mafia-networks-extending-their-influence-1495644

Tip of the iceberg stuff !
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November 6, 2015 3:20pm
Dave_1924

Madmen pledges allegiance to ISIS – based in South Auckland, posts pictures of himself with rifle… oh dear. Expect the SIS to arrest you this time not just have a chat, with AOS or SAS in attendance in case its a real AK and not an Airsoft replica…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11541131
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November 6, 2015 3:22pm
stephieboy

As certain posters make a grab for their jackboots and brownshirts a useful reminder,

“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.”

H. L. Mencken

Dave 1924 , yes there will be many pressing their paranoia and hysteria buttons yet again !
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November 6, 2015 3:24pm
Stars And Stripes

All the commissioners in NZ whether they are race relations, retirement, disability etc should be done away with as they are just highly paid mouthpieces who have no relevance to most citizens besides the luvvie little pressure groups who agitated for these positions to be created in the first place.
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November 6, 2015 3:25pm
stephieboy

Stars And Stripes , unlikley as you and many others here represent merely the laughable chaff and riff raff !
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November 6, 2015 3:29pm
Dave_1924

@Stephie – you are sometimes so damn tedious. When it happens I hope you are on here explaining why it wasn’t the gunpersons fault, they are a lone wolf or mentally unwell…

If you think idiots like this guy or the convert nutter in the Hawkes’ Bay won’t eventual do something outrageous I think you are just plain stupid…

Having visited down into Mt Roskill regularly while living around Eden Park, what I saw down on Stoddart Rd leaves me with little doubt we are brewing some trouble for ourselves – just a matter of time.
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November 6, 2015 3:32pm
stephieboy

Dave 1924, I live right next door to Stoddard Rd in Mt Eden and I think your seriously deluded !
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November 6, 2015 3:37pm
Dave_1924

Well Stephie, that just clarifies for me exactly where you stand.. Enjoy it when it kicks off…..
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November 6, 2015 3:39pm
Stars And Stripes

Stephieboy- you live near Stoddard Road well my heart goes out to you.
I was one of the lucky ones who got out of there 10 years or so back as I could see what a crap area it was turning into too with all the new immigrants arriving and bringing their filthy ways with them.
Mt Roskill Grammar used to be a nice school back in the day but now you would struggle to find a white face.
Hotbed of Labour voters though I must say with all the state housing and dependency.
Anyway enjoy.
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November 6, 2015 3:46pm
calendar girl

@ Albert_Ross 11:31:

“Criticising something somebody says is not attempting to muzzle freedom of speech. It is an exercise of freedom of speech.”

That’s the normal scenario. But in this kind of situation, the context and the important constitutional principles involved take precedence. MPs’ freedom of speech in Parliament is sacrosanct, subject to rules to preserve order imposed by the presiding Speaker. An MP can say what he / she likes in Parliament, for example, without facing the risk of defamation proceedings. Dame Susan Devoid – pursuing her role as part of the country’s Executive – is out of order.

@ Keeping Stock 11:40:

“isn’t it more accurate to say that Devoy is simply condemning what Ron Mark said, exercising his freedom of speech?”

Same answer as to Albert above. As indicated in my earlier comments, I myself have no truck with Mark’s comments in Parliament and – as a private citizen – I can criticise his comments all I want. But I cannot do so while acting in the capacity of a Judge (member of the Judiciary) or of a senior official in the Executive that runs the country.
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November 6, 2015 3:56pm
mikenmild

Why do you think the Race Relations Commissioner should be unable to criticise MPs?
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November 6, 2015 4:05pm
stigie

Should we be concerned for Penny Mary Bright not turning up to court last Thursday for her defamation case against the Auckland Council and a disappearance from Kiwiblog General Debate…?

Has the watchdog finally been caught up on through her demands for accountability and transparency…?
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November 6, 2015 4:23pm
Inandout

Shit, Google Earth 10 Glenarm Avenue, Mt Roskill. And that imagery was 2012.
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November 6, 2015 4:26pm
Stars And Stripes

Inandout-that is one of the good ones as the car is not up on blocks and the front door and windows are still intact.
Might be a dog on the spit roast out the back if you look close though.
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November 6, 2015 4:33pm
Manolo

Maybe the rate-bludger is away helping her German mecenas, who is busy packing a large number of bags in preparation for his deportation.
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November 6, 2015 4:43pm
Scott Chris

Has the watchdog finally been caught up on through her demands for accountability and transparency…?

Well it was Halloween recently so that accounts for her transparency…
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November 6, 2015 4:45pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Waikato Girl…

Fussy Maggy!

Who knew that all women are interested in other women!
Sounds like the reports author is projecting her own fantasies on the rest of the female population.

I’m not really fussy… but I wouldn’t want to send my “wives” out to work all day……I’d have to have some time with them discovering what I’ve obviously been missing out on all these decades.
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November 6, 2015 4:51pm
stigie

Jeez, hope the hovel wasn’t burned down in last nights Guy Fawkes, that would mean she would be refused a permit from the AC to rebuild…../ Oh dear, how sad and you know the rest !~
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November 6, 2015 4:55pm
Reid

The response will be very subtle and extremely nasty for the culprits – a message will be sent and this will probably not even be reported in the West

Yes it probably will be like that. I recall a story from when Beirut was the ME shithole and one of the protagonists made the big mistake of kidnapping and killing some Russian diplomat(s). So the KGB sent in some of the heavy boys and the Russians were left well alone, after they’d finished.

I think you’ll probably find that Israeli and Egyptian security personnel and their families will be on the receiving end of this retaliation, and to Brigette, it wasn’t a missile because there was no vapour trail, and you can’t hide that.

A catering truck and a fuel truck has been sealed and impounded at the airport the passengers embarked from.

One interesting detail is that all the passengers were Russian. Normally you’d expect a nationality mix but not on this flight. One possible reason for this is that some of the passengers had some importance either politically, militarily, scientifically or from the intel community.

Another thing many have missed is that Israel and Egypt were conducting a joint air-combat exercise in the same area the plane went down in. That’s not BTW why I said above that citizens from those countries are likely going to become hunted in the future, but that’s another interesting detail.

However at this stage the puzzle is adding up to a bomb planted on the plane by one of those impounded vehicles and it’s tending toward the catering because the trays were loaded into the rear of the plane just for’ard of the rear pressure wall and I’ve seen a photo of the tail with some of the metal curling outward.

Another interesting and unanswered question is: how did the culprits escape? By boat seems to be a likely answer there. But tracking that is a real good way to identify who dunnit and while the Russians don’t have the same ubiquitous satellite coverage as the NRO, I imagine what assets they do have were already tasked to cover that general area because of their Syrian ops, so chances are they can pull up some relevant data to give them some leads there.

At this stage there is nothing on the interweb I’ve read that allows definite conclusions to be drawn. There might be but I haven’t read it. As usual the idiot media isn’t helping at all and as illustrated above in that brief discussion of this tragedy in which many innocents died because bad guys don’t like good guys killing them, some of the profoundly ignorant sheeple are bleating all over the place with no rhyme nor reason, just like the real things do.
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November 6, 2015 4:55pm
Reid

Why do you think the Race Relations Commissioner should be unable to criticise MPs?

Because while she’s good at squash she has no qualifications to be RRC, so she should just resign, yesterday.

Nothing she says, nothing, repeat, nothing, has any legitimacy whatsoever, because of that.

It’s exactly the same as the media self-awarding Judy Bailey her ‘mother of the nation’ sobriquet. She’s not my fucking mother, she never will be, she doesn’t deserve to be, she’s not good enough, I don’t want her to be and I won’t allow her to be. One reason for this is that I don’t happen to rate highly anyone who’s sole qualification is being able to read a teleprompter. And that’s all she ever did and the only skill she ever displayed.

Same as our current RRC. Key only appointed her for the same reason he does everything. Because he knew the appointment would be hard for his political enemies to criticise and he also knew most of the sheeple are so stupid they’d all clap and cheer and whoop and swoon over the humanity of this ‘wonderful’ appointment. He knew of course the right wing would see straight through it, but we’re already on his side so who cares about us. His main concern was not giving the left any ammo to fling at him, via his appointee to this most leftist of offices. In other words, he didn’t care about whether or not she’d be any good, he didn’t care about moving the office from the left to the centre, he just did it because he just didn’t want any political shitstorms. Thereby incidently passing up yet another chance to do the correct thing, rather than the popular thing. Because this office, used correctly, could change a shitload of things for the better. It’s never been used correctly, that’s why that’s never happened. Reason # 785933993 why I’ve never rated Key, and never will.

Hope that helps mm. Doubt it will, but I hope eternal.
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November 6, 2015 5:12pm
minus

stigie

Penny? Alas not AWOL as you think –
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2015/11/general_debate_5_november_2015.html#comment-1610574
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November 6, 2015 5:16pm
stigie

minus:- One should be a little concerned for her mental state ?

http://cdn.3news.co.nz/3news/AM/0-Articles/240742/occupy-pennybright-1200.jpg
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November 6, 2015 5:29pm
Shawn Herles

“LOL Americas decline is nothing to do with partisan domestic politics – it is a Nation that has turned away from God and is rotten to the core.”

Bullshit. You can always find some degenerate stupidity in liberal urban areas, the same as Russia. But most heartland Americans remain Christian. And Obama’s anti-Christiam reign is nearly at an end. Witness the elections in Kentucky, where a Christian pro-life candidate won.

Meanwhile, in Russia….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w3ZxcZs6Ps
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November 6, 2015 5:40pm
nasska

Meanwhile….in the deep south of the good ol’ USA:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ufszzmw01x2nxv/American%20South.jpg?dl=0
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November 6, 2015 6:03pm
stigie

Jeez Nasska, Reddy would say that’s someone he knows in Eketahuna…?
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November 6, 2015 6:09pm
Reid

Excellent, as usual from this site, analysis, this time of Hagar, et al.

…The only way forward if one is to truly test Hager’s actions is, in our opinion, to file a private prosecution against Hager. Hager, knowingly, was the recipient of stolen property, there is no plausible defence that we can think of to that charge.

The next question of course is whether Nicky Hager himself benefitted financially from the theft of the material stolen off Slater.

We rather suspect that it could be successfully argued that Nicky Hager benefitted financially from a significant criminal activity, and thus the royalties (if exceeding $30’000) received from the sale of Dirty Politics are in fact proceeds derived from that significant criminal activity (see: NZ Proceeds of Crime Act 1991, NZ Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act 2009)…

http://www.laudafinem.com/2015/11/05/hager-rawshark-et-al-dirty-politics-whistleblowers-the-conversion-of-stolen-material-for-profit/
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November 6, 2015 6:16pm
nasska

Not so much a problem in Eke stigie but it used to be bad in the coastal areas of South Wairarapa. When the area was originally settled it was from the sea & transport meant that cousins from a few pioneering families married cousins for generations on end.

When road access was finally developed they found settlements of people with webbing between their toes & eyes that looked at each other.

I understand that things have improved of late. 🙂
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November 6, 2015 6:16pm
Shawn Herles

Where did you get the pics of Griff’s family naaska? 😉
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November 6, 2015 6:19pm
nasska

Don’t pick on Griff Shawn. It will turn out badly.

In Prog we trust! 🙂
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November 6, 2015 6:23pm
Nostradamus

I see Penny has just commented on the TPP thread.

“Seen this Kiwibloggers?”

The irony – that she wasn’t seen in the High Court yesterday when her defamation case against Auckland Council was heard – is probably lost on her.
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November 6, 2015 6:24pm
nasska

Any thoughts on which way costs will fall in that case Nostra?
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November 6, 2015 6:27pm
Nostradamus

Nasska:

I think there’s a good prospect that Penny’s case will be thrown out and an adverse costs order made against her.

Three factors in support of my view:

– The High Court has discretion as to costs. The fact that Penny failed to appear in court yesterday – which was apparently scheduled several months ago – will count against her.
– Stephen Town will have incurred legal costs in preparing for the hearing.
– Penny has (according to the article) refused to provide documents to Auckland Council’s lawyers even after the court directed her to.

So, on balance, things aren’t looking good for Penny.
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November 6, 2015 6:32pm
Reid

…Looking past the political smoke, one scenario deserves scrutiny.

The Islamic State (IS) has taken responsibility for the incident. In a manifesto, the IS claimed to have brought down the Russian plane in retaliation for Russian military intervention in Syria.

Egyptian officials immediately derided the claim as propaganda that damages the image of Egypt. But at the same time, the authenticity of the IS propaganda has not been debunked. The nature of the propaganda was in keeping with previous manifestos; CIA standard procedure. There is “insufficient evidence” to support the claim, but there never is sufficient evidence. By design.

Given the amply documented fact that the IS (ISIS, ISIL, etc.) is a creation of US intelligence, and function as assets and military-intelligence fronts of the CIA and Washington—financed, recruited and trained by the US and its allies— why shouldn’t the claims of responsibility be taken at face value?

In an era in which false flag atrocities and deception have constituted US foreign policy, it is in no way inconceivable that forces aligned with Washington committed yet another act of terrorism, another act of war, to send a message of warning and/or provocation to Moscow.

This is by no means the first time that the downing of a plane has been exploited for political purpose, aimed at Russia. The false flag shootdown of MH-17 and the cover-up and propaganda that followed offers a ghastly example. The history of American covert operations is rife with atrocities involving planes…

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-suspicious-downing-of-russias-metrojet-airbus-a321-200-the-isis-is-a-creation-of-the-cia/5486670
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November 6, 2015 6:40pm
Reid

So, on balance, things aren’t looking good for Penny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjJ1bsnxxhs
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November 6, 2015 6:43pm
nasska

Remember that ASB (?) ad for lifestyle mortgages to cover purchases of boats, cars, holidays etc? “Put it on the house” was the catchphrase.

Seems to cover Penny’s impending dilemma too. 🙂
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November 6, 2015 6:44pm
Shawn Herles

“Given the amply documented fact that the IS (ISIS, ISIL, etc.) is a creation of US intelligence, and function as assets and military-intelligence fronts of the CIA and Washington”

LMAO!!! 🙂

Your tin foil hat is screwed on waaaay too tight there Reid! 🙂
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November 6, 2015 6:48pm
Reid

Your tin foil hat is screwed on waaaay too tight there Reid!

Fact it’s not covered on National Review is not evidence its false Shawn.

Only sheeple think that.
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November 6, 2015 6:50pm
waikatogirl

Maggy
I’m not really fussy… but I wouldn’t want to send my “wives” out to work all day……I’d have to have some time with them discovering what I’ve obviously been missing out on all these decades.
***
Good luck with your discoveries… Seems to be a growing trend…
After so many years married i’ll stick to what I know. I’m rusty on the training programme of a new relationship and I’ve lost the instruction manual. 🙂
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November 6, 2015 6:54pm
Keeping Stock

Richie McCaw features on the largest billboard in Times Square today; that’s gonna REALLY piss big bruv off!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11541266
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November 6, 2015 6:58pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4td47sge9h4r71p/Muslim%2065.jpg?dl=0
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November 6, 2015 6:59pm
Shawn Herles

“Fact it’s not covered on National Review is not evidence its false Shawn.”

Unlike you Reid I actually read very widely, from a variety of sources. Not only do I not rely on NRO alone, I am often critical of it’s increasingly soft-right approach.

But GR is a Kremlin troll farm, plain and simple. Only sheeple believe everything the Kremlin says.

“globalresearch site is a kremlin propaganda operation”

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=259_1409830022

And for evidence of how unreliable GR is, take a look at this article praising the achievements of North Korea, which just happens to be an ally of Russia.

“North Korea, a Land of Human Achievement, Love and Joy” ( I kid you not, that GR’s actual title for the article!!! 🙂 )

http://www.globalresearch.ca/north-korea-a-land-of-human-achievement-love-and-joy/5344960

So Reid, do you think a source that says North Korea is a land of human achievement, love and joy, is remotely reliable?

If so, please contact your nearest mental health professional. 🙂
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November 6, 2015 7:02pm
Reid

Break-in at Carmel Sepaloni’s house. Discovered by her son. Cops called who refused to attend and suggested the son go in and “we will talk you through it”.

Oddly, when the cops found Carmel Sepaloni was the house owner they deemed to attend.

This SHOULD be national headlines WaikatoGirl. Lack of theft investigation IS a national scandal and DESERVES to be highlighted in flaming letters, time after time, until the politicians are FORCED, by media publicity, to change the current [cost-driven] policy.

But the useless idiot media long ago abrogated their Fourth Estate duties, so we expect nothing to eventuate along those lines do we.

Meanwhile the media stand around collectively perplexed as to why on Earth their readers, listeners and viewers are deserting them.
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November 6, 2015 7:03pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Waikatogirl

I just thought I’d better check out that study again to get a few pointers for the weekend and, much to my horror, it seems viewing naked women is one of the prerequisites.
Its shattering enough having to look at bits of my own bod, I really don’t think I could cope with viewing more sags & bags.
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November 6, 2015 7:07pm
Reid

Unlike you Reid I actually read very widely, from a variety of sources.

So do I Shawn as a perusal of links from any of my posts recent or more historic will prove, but just like Hagar, you lie about your enemies, to score cheap points.

Knowingly.

Would Jesus approve?
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November 6, 2015 7:13pm
Shawn Herles

“So do I Shawn”

No you don’t. Almost all of your sources are either funded by the Kremlin, which by the way, makes you a sheep, Neo-Nazi sites like Veteran’s Today, or are whackjobs like Makow.

That’s not reading widely Reid.

And given that you tried promoting two documentaries that glorified Hitler and were made by Odin worshiping pagans, I would not be invoking Jesus’ name if I were you.
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November 6, 2015 7:24pm
SPC

One wonders exactly how Russia will respond to the bomb on its plane?

IS claims credit for what an “allied” group in the Sinai did. It’s a bit like Germany celebrating the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour. The Americans went beyond supplying aid to boots on the ground on both fronts.

Apparently it will not act in the Sinai without Egyptian request, but it probably will offer support to Egypt against Islamists in this area.

In Syria, what might happen is that Russia broadens its intervention, expanding operational capacity, so it can continue to assist the regime retake areas in western Syria, but at the same time take on IS more directly in eastern areas.
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November 6, 2015 8:22pm
Reid

One wonders exactly how Russia will respond to the bomb on its plane?

We’ll see SPC, or some of us will, because of course the Western MSM won’t cover it.

But it’s changed the narrative, hasn’t it.

It’s wiped off the “finally but fucking finally someone is making progress against ISIS” from the Western MSM headlines.

Hasn’t it.

How convenient.
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November 6, 2015 8:28pm
Reid

On the US “advisers” in Syria:

…The two sides have been placed on a collision course in which there is bound to be shooting. The Russian operators are good: they’re very good, and they are masters of assassination and counterintelligence missions. The last time the U.S. came up against them definitively was in Bosnia in ’93 and ’94 where the Spetsnaz boys were supporting the Serbs.

For more information on Spetsnaz and how they work, you may wish to read Viktor Suvorov’s (V.B. Rezun’s) works, Inside Spetsnaz, as well as Inside the Aquarium (the latter is about the GRU, but it entails Spetsnaz as well, and how in modern times the two are oftentimes merged into units). The books are very detailed about missions performed as well as equipment, strategy, and doctrine. The latter two components are virtually unchanged from the days of the U.S.S.R. to now.

So there we have it. Word has come to me from a source who must remain anonymous stationed and serving with 10th Special Forces Group (Airborne), in Ft. Carson, Colorado, that the United States “is prepared to commit a much larger element [of Special Forces] than the one currently deployed, in accordance with the changing situation.”

Ghost Wars lead to all-out/conventional wars. Now we have a situation where the two main heavyweights are positioning themselves to conduct such operations against one another. The ending, ladies and gentlemen, is almost certain to escalate into a full-blown war… the one that can very well blossom into World War III.

Jeremiah Johnson is the Nom de plume of a retired Green Beret of the United States Army Special Forces (Airborne). Mr. Johnson is also a Gunsmith, a Certified Master Herbalist, a Montana Master Food Preserver, and a graduate of the U.S. Army’s SERE school (Survival Evasion Resistance Escape). He lives in a cabin in the mountains of Western Montana with his wife and three cats. You can follow Jeremiah’s regular writings at SHTFplan.com or contact him here.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/ghost-war-in-syria-russian-spetsnaz-facing-u-s-army-special-forces-there-is-bound-to-be-shooting_11032015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmcoRZfPTKk
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November 6, 2015 8:49pm
Manolo

The incompetent Messiah pisses off the US Army:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/5/obama-pushes-military-frustration-to-highest-level/

Lawmakers from both parties say frustration with the White House among the top military officers is at its highest level in decades, the product of President Obama’s cautious approach to the wars in Syria and Iraq and an indecisive inner circle of White House advisers who, critics say, have iced the Pentagon out of the policymaking process.
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November 6, 2015 8:50pm
Manolo

The AGW zealots invent a new “crime”:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/06/science/exxon-mobil-under-investigation-in-new-york-over-climate-statements.html

The New York attorney general has begun an investigation of Exxon Mobil to determine whether the company lied to the public about the risks of climate change or to investors about how such risks might hurt the oil business.
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November 6, 2015 8:55pm
Shawn Herles

Couldn’t answer the question about GR’s claim that North Korea is a land of “achievement, love and joy” could you Reid.

Your intellectual cowardice is impressive, and your inability to defend your sources speaks volumes.
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November 6, 2015 8:56pm
Reid

Couldn’t answer the question about GR’s claim that North Korea is a land of “achievement, love and joy” could you Reid.

What question?

When have I ever defended NK?

Your intellectual cowardice is impressive, and your inability to ~~defend your sources~~ outright lie about innocents, speaks volumes.

You remind me of the Jews in Acts Captain Bananas. You’re that bad.
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November 6, 2015 9:00pm
mikenmild

Were they ‘fake’ Jews or real ones, Reid?
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November 6, 2015 9:06pm
Reid

No they were real ones back then mm, but they were of course the same ilk who incited the crowd to kill Jesus.

The fake ones came about 600+ years later.

Why?

Don’t you know anything?

Apparently not.

Perhaps you should educate yourself, if you wish to comment on the subject without making a fool of yourself.

But of course, that’s OTY.

Naturally.
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November 6, 2015 9:10pm
Manolo

The evidence points to the savages:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3306171/UK-spies-uncovered-ISIS-bomb-plot-Cameron-facing-furious-backlash-Egypt-Russia-British-spooks-deciphered-intelligence-ruled-disaster-accident.html
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November 6, 2015 9:12pm
itstricky

They were sheep dressed up in Jew’s clothing

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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November 6, 2015 9:12pm
Manolo

Oh dear: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/06/us-angry-comments-obama-israeli-pm-spokesman

The US has taken offence at comments by Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s new communications director, who accused Barack Obama of antisemitism and suggested secretary of state John Kerry had the mental abilities of a 12-year-old, according to a State Department spokesman.
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November 6, 2015 9:17pm
Shawn Herles

“What question?”

The one I have asked twice now ya twit.

“When have I ever defended NK?”

Global Research does, the source you often use.

If you can’t answer, you are the coward.

Look, I get that sources are subjective and what we like or don’t like is based largely on our political worldviews, but a source that claims that North Korea is a land of achievement, love and joy is not credible by ANY standards.

“No they were real ones back then mm, but they were the ones who killed Jesus. The fake ones came about 600+ years later.

Why? Don’t you know anything?”

Oh puhleeease! I profoundly disagree with mikenmild’s political views, but he’s a bloody Nobel prize winning rocket scientist compared to you and EAD.
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November 6, 2015 9:18pm
Reid

The evidence points to the savages:

Yes.

This is, of course, “evidence” from the same people who brought the world the various “surprise” calamities like the 87, Dot-bomb, and 2008 economic “shocks” with no warning whatsoever, plus of course such luminous insights into news events like the WMDs in Iraq and the list is much much longer but I remember I’m talking to a sheeple tricky so I won’t mention those lest you go into cognitive dissonance hellfire, notwithstanding you’re a screaming lefty.
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November 6, 2015 9:23pm
mikenmild

Reid
Luckily Jesus is a fictional character, so there is no need to remain angry with the people you imagine killed him.
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November 6, 2015 9:32pm
Reid

Says mm, defying many facts, not least of which is, if Jesus was a mere human, how come everyone still talks about Him today, in contrast to all the other humans not only who lived back then, but all the other humans who’ve lived since?

Let alone a “fictional” character.
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November 6, 2015 9:47pm
mikenmild

I didn’t say he was a mere human: I said he was a fictional character. Just because people might still talk about Hercules, Moses or Captain Kirk doesn’t make them any more real either.
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November 6, 2015 9:50pm
nasska

You do realise Mike that your disbelief in Baby Jesus has resulted in your luxury accommodation in the next world being cancelled.

I’m sorry to inform you that your deposit on a harp is non refundable.
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November 6, 2015 10:03pm
calendar girl

“Why do you think the Race Relations Commissioner should be unable to criticise MPs?”

I never said that, MM @ 4:05pm – do please read what I said.

Dame Susan was acting / voicing her opinion in her capacity as a officer of the Executive wing of Government. In our kind of constitutional structure, there is a recognised separation between the Parliamentary, Executive & Judicial wings of government. No one wing is expected to interfere with the rights and responsibilities of either of the other two.

If Dame Susan criticised the medieval views of Mark in her personal and private capacity, I would willingly support her views. But I cannot agree with her taking it upon herself to question an MP’s absolute right in Parliament to voice whatever view he chooses.

Within an unwritten but well-understood constitutional framework, you either adhere to established and accepted principles of constitutional government or you embark on a descent down a very slippery slope. As a public servant, you should understand that better than most.
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November 6, 2015 10:06pm
Reid

I didn’t say he was a mere human: I said he was a fictional character. Just because people might still talk about Hercules, Moses or Captain Kirk doesn’t make them any more real either.

Ah. So you don’t think he lived at all.

Yet somehow, 2000 years later, this “figment of imagination” lives in hundreds of millions if not billions of people’s minds. And this has persisted and waxed and waned throughout hundreds if not thousands of generations.

And according to mm’s “wisdom.” this is just normal, for a mere “fictional” character? For thousands of years, according to mm, we have set aside days of worship, and marched off to Church, to worship, say, the rabbit from Alice in Wonderland? That’s, according to mm, what we have all done? For centuries?

All I can say is, you must be a profound moron to hold that ludicrous philosophy, given how contrary to the historical facts it is, therefore, I really do hope you’re in charge of nothing more than toilet cleaning for the govt dept you work for, because if it’s anything more than that, our country is in immediate danger, due to your extreme incompetence in fundamental principles of basic 101 thinking.
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November 6, 2015 10:08pm
Shunda barunda

Luckily Jesus is a fictional character, so there is no need to remain angry with the people you imagine killed him.

Proof yet again that the “rationalists” super powers don’t extend to a correct understanding of the past.
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November 6, 2015 10:21pm
RichardX

Reid (19,499 comments) says:
November 6th, 2015 at 10:08 pm
…due to your extreme incompetence in fundamental principles of basic 101 thinking.

Says the person who uses a logical fallacy rather than actual evidence to make their argument
But that is all he normally uses to make his point so no surprise really
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November 7, 2015 1:02am
Rowan

“Says the person who uses a logical fallacy rather than actual evidence to make their argument”
I don’t see any “actual evidence” in your argument RichardX but that’s not to surprising now is it?
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November 7, 2015 7:15am
Nookin

Rowan

Richardx’s argument is that Reid uses logical fallacies to support his own argument. His evidence is the very frequent use of the ad hom approach to debate used almost inveriably by Reid when someone disagrees with him. The “ad hom” approach is a logical fallacy. Reid usually covers his basis in advance by foreseeing the counter argument, recognising its strength and extensive acceptance but denigrates it by referring to its adherents as sheeple.

Richardx’s evidence is incontrovertible. That does not make Reid wrong. It just makes his argument totally unconvincing and his approach boring. It doesnt make MM right either. Fancy suggesting that captain Kirk is not real. I have seen all the documentaries about his achievements. They have repeated them plenty of times on telly.
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November 7, 2015 7:44am

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