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November 28, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 28 November 2015

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General Debate

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Maggy Wassilieff

I trust all the good Catholics on KB went out Climate Marching today
(as requested/ordered by Pope Francis)
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-34948805
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November 28, 2015 1:54pm
Don the Kiwi

Not this one Maggie.

Much more important thing to do – like help my wife sell her car, and sort out another one. 🙂

A much more imminent and important life preservation task.
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November 28, 2015 1:58pm
Reid

If a US warplane was taken out by an S-400, the S-400 would be gone in no time.

JMS you should stop your wishful thinking and educate yourself, lest you become as dumb as stupidboy.

If you did trouble yourself to click google you’d find out in 2 secs it’s an ABM as well as ground to air.

Duh.

And if the US does that its an act of war, with a nuclear power.

Duh.

And the Roooooskies won’t be shooting down any US planes, unless that plane is threatening a Russian one, and if it does that, it’s the US’ fault in the first place, isn’t it.

Duh.

Andrei, the US have electronic countermeasures for the S300 and most likely for the S400.

No they don’t stupidboy. I’ve told you before, hallucinating something out of your empty head doesn’t make it real. Idiot.
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November 28, 2015 2:08pm
JMS

I trust all the good Catholics on KB went out Climate Marching today
(as requested/ordered by Pope Francis)

Now you’re just being mean.

They already have more than enough on their hands juggling all those contradictions of religion, and then you throw that in.
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November 28, 2015 2:08pm
JMS

If you did trouble yourself to click google you’d find out in 2 secs it’s an ABM as well as ground to air.

If you think the S-400 will stop an incoming swarm of HARMs and JSOWs, then Duh.

And if the US does that its an act of war, with a nuclear power.

Please learn to read properly. I said *IF* a US warplane is taken out, ie: if Russia shoots first. Get it?
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November 28, 2015 2:22pm
stephieboy

Reid,

your typical abusive posts ,

“No they don’t stupidboy. I’ve told you before, hallucinating something out of your empty head doesn’t make it real. Idiot.”

Then explain how Israel was able to penetrate the S300 air defence system here and without the ability to e jam it ?

http://observer.com/2014/12/what-the-u-s-can-learn-from-israels-attack-on-syria/

I think you problem is that you are happy to believe anything Russian propaganda spoon feeds wether by the Kremlin thence via Global Research and Veterans Today.
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November 28, 2015 2:30pm
KevinH

It’s unlikely the Russians would take out a US warplane with the S400, that would be stupid because it would compromise Russia’s primary objective which is to establish a port on the Med. It’s more probable that a misguided strike on ground forces by Russian or US planes could occur. However the elephant in the room is now Turkey, clearly the Turks have their own unique agenda and won’t bow to diplomatic pressure from anyone. The situation there is grave, one false move from the coalition could trigger a shooting match.
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November 28, 2015 2:31pm
Shawn Herles

Stephieboy and Reid are mirror images of each other. Stephieboy thinks the light shines out of Obama’s ass. Reid thinks the light shines out of Putin’s ass. Stephieboy defends Islam and downplays Islamic terrorism. Reid hates Israel and one his favorite countries is terror supporting Iran. Neither of them wants to defend the West, both of them support the West’s enemies.

And both of them are bat shit crazy enough to be certifiable and locked in a rubber room with wrap around jackets.

Pffffffft.
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November 28, 2015 2:32pm
Andrei

You are just being an armchair warrior JMS – “No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy”

A few weeks ago the good ol’ boys of the USA saw fit to take out the power supply for Aleppo, thus depriving a city of more than two million people not only electricity but water and sewerage at the height of the Syrian summer .

Why did they do this do you suppose?
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November 28, 2015 2:39pm
JMS

You are just being an armchair warrior JMS – “No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy”

I wasn’t describing a battle plan, just a weapon.

A few weeks ago the good ol’boys of the USA saw fit to take out the power supply for Aleppo, thus depriving a city of more than two million people not only electricity but water and sewerage at the height of the Syrian summer .

Why did they do this do you suppose?

I don’t even know if that’s true. The only references I can find to it are on the same types of websites that claim the Ukrainians shot down MH17.
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November 28, 2015 2:50pm
Griff

Terrorism .
kill them all
Bloody nutters and their religious based attacks on freedom and democracy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/11/27/active-shooter-at-planned-parenthood-in-colorado-springs-police-and-fire-officials-say/
Sound just like a Conservative hating mussys dont I .
Guess what the terrorist is?
Same god just a different sect of intolerant arseholes.
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November 28, 2015 2:56pm
Andrei

Here is an IRC story JMS, it doesn’t tell you why this has happened but it tells you it has

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/syria-icrc-water-crisis-aleppo
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November 28, 2015 2:58pm
JMS

Here is an IRC story JMS, it doesn’t tell you why this has happened but it tells you it has

I’m not disputing there is a crisis in Aleppo, but who carried out the bombing.
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November 28, 2015 3:05pm
waikatogirl

holysheet
Traveled up to Auckland from Hamilton twice this week, along the Waikato express way. It’s due for completion in another 3 -4 years. The Cambridge bypass will be opened next month, ahead of schedule.
My thoughts turned to the bloody greens and Liabores, who before it was even started, said it was a waste of money and they would stop its construction. Shows you how small minded pissants they really are. I hope no greens ever deign to avail them selves of this once its finally finished. But we all know they are a bunch of no-hopers who are living in the dark ages and want to take us all back there.
***
Not likely holy, greens and liabore MP’s will happily be chewing up free flights well above the wonderful new Waikato expressway the rest of us get to drive. 🙂
That way they have deniability and will never have to admit the rubbish they spout was wrong, again!
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November 28, 2015 3:09pm
SGA

Griff at 2:56 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/11/27/active-shooter-at-planned-parenthood-in-colorado-springs-police-and-fire-officials-say/
…
Same god just a different sect of intolerant arseholes.

Unfair Griff – likely to be a lone wolf with other issues as well – they crop up in all sorts of places.
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November 28, 2015 3:15pm
Griff

Not unfair.
Over the top.
How many stupid over the top Religo Conservative comments attacking Muslims do we see every day on here?
If I paint all Christians with a brush dipped into the extremism of a few is it any different ?
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November 28, 2015 3:30pm
SGA

Griff at 3:30 pm

Not unfair.
Over the top.

These aren’t mutually exclusive 🙂

If I paint all Christians with a brush dipped into the extremism of a few is it any different ?

Why would you want to be the same? Really.
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November 28, 2015 3:31pm
stephieboy

Shawn Herles , you are fond of sourcing your paranoiad anti Islamic rants from the hysterically anti Islamic rants frontpage .org

Here they are typically caught with their pace down about a non existence kidnapping of two Egyptian Christian girls forced to convert to Islam which is in fact actually contrary to the Koran and also Egyptian law . But more importantly the frontapage’s investigator, a certain Mr Ibrahim’s, simply cannot back up the claim about the alleged kidnapping . Simply because there was none . Therefore so much in respect of frontage’s stellar investigative methods . !

Talk about conspiracy theory confirmation bias .

http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/06/frontpage-muslim-bashing-authority-can’t-do-a-two-second-google-search/

I have to go now but will present a further selection how frontpage routinely places fast and loose with the facts as per above !
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November 28, 2015 3:33pm
stephieboy

Andrei, Aleppo ?

and what would be the point of this ?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/21/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-strikes-idUSKCN0SF24L20151021#jd8AXaUWR63iKgv6.97
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November 28, 2015 3:38pm
JMS

If I paint all Christians with a brush dipped into the extremism of a few is it any different ?

Of course there are extremists in almost any philosophy, but Muslim extremists are terrorising *millions* of people worldwide as we speak.

It’s a question of scale Griff.
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November 28, 2015 3:38pm
SGA

@JMS
Although there is now a tendency to see the actions of any nutter who happens to be Muslim as part of an orchestrated Islamic plot.
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November 28, 2015 3:43pm
Lucia Maria

Reid at 12:43pm says:

I saw one of the sheeple say here the other day that in his idiot opinion Assad was the one selling oil to ISIS. Really. Of course the idiot sheep didn’t explain precisely why someone would support the very organisation which is trying to destroy him. No, that thought obvious didn’t enter the head of that idiot. Not surprising really. Hard to think when one’s head is full of concrete, isn’t it.

Don’t know which ‘idiot sheep’ you are referring to, but I’ll help. Here’s an in-depth explanation of why Assad is supporting ISIS, written a year ago: Provocation and the Islamic State: Why Assad Strengthened the Jihadists.

This tactic is called provocation (provokatsiya in Russian), and “simply means taking control of your enemies in secret and encouraging them to do things that discredit them and help you.” The KGB perfected this tactic, beginning with Operation TRUST, though Russia had invented it under the Tsar. The KGB’s successors have employed provocation in the last few months with the Ukrainian far-Right, which has done so much to discredit the new government in Kyiv; a sanguinary version of this policy was employed by the KGB-trained authorities in Algeria in the 1990s; and it has even been used in democratic countries, such as in America by the FBI against the Ku Klux Klan and the Black Panthers, and in Germany against the far-Right.

Worth reading the entire post.
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November 28, 2015 3:51pm
JMS

Although there is now a tendency to see the actions of any nutter who happens to be Muslim as part of an orchestrated Islamic plot.

I wouldn’t claim the actions of such nutters to necessarily be an orchestrated plot. But when those nutters see the things members of their religion are doing overseas, it certainly puts violent ideas in their heads and leads them to do things they otherwise probably wouldn’t have.

For example, it would be very wrong to deny the Muslim connection in the Sydney hostage disaster.
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November 28, 2015 3:51pm
Don the Kiwi

“……..forced to convert to Islam which is in fact actually contrary to the Koran and also Egyptian law . ”

You really are a dingbat stupidboy.

What do you think Islam has been doing for the past 1400 years? Do you really think a mildly radical muslim is going to bother about Egyptian Law? And don’t you realise that ISIS and their co-extremists are actually following pue Islam, as Mohamed instructed them to do?

Scales on eyes, fog in brain. I wonder if you are a mate of Griff’s, and are whacked out by this time of day.
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November 28, 2015 3:51pm
SGA

JMS at 3:51 pm

It would be very wrong to discount the Muslim connection in the Sydney hostage disaster.

And this person in the US may well have a religious connection that has contributed to his actions (I don’t know – abortion clinic terrorists usually do)
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November 28, 2015 3:58pm
Andrei

Still citing that ENGLISH nutcase Lucia Maria – why do you think he is an authority on anything other than BS

Stephieboy –
Terrorists are terrorists whether you call them ISIS, al Nusra, al Qaeda or anything else,

And you funny fellow the city of Aleppo is undeniably in the hands of terrorists whatever label you want to put on them.

The purpose of the Russian campaign at this point is to help Government forces liberate Aleppo

And that article you linked is a tacit admission by the USA that it supports terrorism if it suits their purposes – which is hardly a revelation
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November 28, 2015 4:00pm
Griff

On the piss again zombie munching man?
Have a few beers and kill a few more brain cells.
One day you might manage that first step http://www.aa.org.nz/meetings
Your religion was pretty much the same for most of those fourteen hundred years .
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November 28, 2015 4:02pm
Shawn Herles

On the dope again Griff?
Have a few more hits and kill a few more brain cells.
One day you might manage that first step http://www.nzna.org/
Your atheist religion killed more people in less than a century than the Christian church managed in 2000 years.
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November 28, 2015 4:08pm
SPC

Reid, I know of no one claiming Syria sells oil to IS, but reports of the regime buying oil from IS have been around for a while.

This one is the latest.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-says-syria-is-buying-oil-from-islamic-state-1448471418

The Americans are responding to Russia claims that oil is going into Turkey (true) but the oil also goes to the regime in Syria itself.
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November 28, 2015 4:09pm
Don the Kiwi

Griff with his usual coherence.

Are you speaking to me Griff?
So you believe in zombies?

How do you know I drink beer? Very insightful of you – I do enjoy a beer, but not for an hour or so yet for today.

Settle back, roll up, light up, and –breathe in – hold till your eyes glaze over – breathe out. Now let you face slide off your head and the THC de-activate what’s left of your brain. 🙂

Meant in a caring way, of course – I quite look forward to your little rants. 😉
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November 28, 2015 4:11pm
JMS

Terrorists are terrorists whether you call them ISIS, al Nusra, al Qaeda or anything else,

Those 3 groups are certainly terrorists. But often the word is used to simply slander opponents. Such as what Turkey does to the Kurds.
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November 28, 2015 4:12pm
Andrei

Why would Syria buy the oil stolen from it and in the process help fund the bastards that are tearing the country apart Shawn Herles?

That is utter nonsense
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November 28, 2015 4:13pm
Shawn Herles

Looking back over today’s and yesterdays GD threads here is what I found.

Christian posts get way more up ticks than atheist posts. Atheist posts get way more down ticks.

Conservative posts get way more up ticks than liberal posts. Liberal posts get way more down ticks.

Pro-Western posts get way more up ticks than anti-Western posts. Anti-Western posts get way more down ticks.

Pro-Israel and pro-Jewish posts get way more up ticks than anti-Israel/Jewish posts. Anti-Israel/Jewish posts get way more down ticks.

It’s a good time to be on Kiwiblog! 🙂
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November 28, 2015 4:14pm
Griff

Actually Shawn I smoke pot occasionally and occasional use has no documented effect on someone my age.
As I am always getting the pot things from piss soaked fuckwits who drink I have decided to return the accusations of addiction and issues with use.
Of course with piss the health issues are more damaging and a lot more common.
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November 28, 2015 4:16pm
Manolo

The American crook got them. In NZ, Angry Andy does not need to worry about unions:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/27/us-usa-election-labor-idUSKBN0TG11Y20151127

In the race for union endorsements, Clinton has more than a dozen from national unions, representing more than 10 million members. By contrast, Sanders has notched two national endorsements, for about 385,000 members.
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November 28, 2015 4:19pm
stigie

And of course Shawn, pot smokers dont go nuts and throw tantrums if pot is not available unlike drinkers who must have a drink !~
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November 28, 2015 4:21pm
Lucia Maria

Andrei.

Still citing that ENGLISH nutcase Lucia Maria – why do you think he is an authority on anything other than BS

He shows a deep interest in the subject, backs up his information, has been quoted by John Schindler, has just done a research piece for an English think tank (The Henry Jackson Society), and what he is saying fits.

In the post I linked to, he quotes the words of “Bassam Barabandi, a defector from Assad’s Foreign Ministry” who says much the same thing as I quoted in my previous comment, just more specifically to what Syria has been doing:

ISIS’s role in Syria fits into a plan that has worked for Assad on several occasions. When a crisis emerges, Assad pushes his opponents to spend as much time as possible in developing a response. … His favorite diversion is terrorism, because it establishes him as a necessary force to contain it. …

Assad renewed a version of this approach after non-violent protestors took to the streets demanding freedom and reform in 2011. … Assad needed to take steps that would pass time and prove himself as indispensable, both to the international community and to Syrians who fear retaliation from the Sunni majority. …

Assad first changed the narrative … to one of sectarianism, not reform. He then fostered an extremist presence in Syria … [and] facilitated the influx of foreign extremist fighters to threaten stability in the region. … The resulting international paralysis allowed Assad to present himself as an ally in the global war on terror, granting him license to crush civilians with impunity. …

Once the unrest shifted to an armed conflict, Assad’s choice of allies promoted sectarianism. … Today, the conflict has morphed into a sectarian regional proxy war. This is precisely how Assad envisioned it, and creates a dynamic that the internationals can dismiss as too complex or dissonant to Western interests.

The Assad plan also included allowing extremist Sunni groups to grow and travel freely in order to complicate any Western support for his opponents. The Assad regime and Iran have meticulously nurtured the rise of al-Qaeda, and then ISIS, in Syria. … Assad released battle-hardened extremists from the infamous Sednaya prison; extremists with no association to the uprisings. These fighters would go on to lead militant groups such as ISIS and al-Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al Nusra.

In conjunction with the terrorist-release policy, Assad was sure to imprison diverse, non-violent, and pro-reform activists by the thousands … so that the influence of extremists would fill their absence. Assad was careful to never take any steps to attack ISIS as they grew in power and strength. …

Now that ISIS has fully matured, the Assad regime and Iran offer themselves as partners to the United States. For the first time, Assad is striking ISIS in Raqqa and locations inside Iraq, in a perverse harvest of the terrorist seeds he planted to quash the civilian-led reform movement. Assad will continue to make himself appear helpful by offering intermittent air strikes, details of fighters released from prison, and intelligence. …

The rise of ISIS in Iraq and events in Gaza and Ukraine have placed Assad’s war safely outside the headlines. Once again, the world is convinced it has higher priorities and may again conclude that Assad is a problematic, yet stabilizing dictator in a troubled region.”

He follows up this quote by saying

The Assad regime has perfected the role of being “at once an arsonist and a fireman,” …

Most apt.

You can go check out the link to Bassam’s piece on the NATO website to make sure he was quoted correctly.

To me it looks like a distinct lack of bull shit.
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November 28, 2015 4:28pm
Manolo

Will they oust the traitor Corbyn?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12021973/Jeremy-Corbyn-faces-humiliation-as-more-than-100-Labour-MPs-plan-to-defy-leader-over-Syria-air-strikes.html

Senior party sources told The Telegraph on Friday night that as many as 115 Labour MPs are preparing to back a government motion allowing British fighter jets to bomb targets in Syria.
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November 28, 2015 4:34pm
Longknives

“Will they oust the traitor Corbyn?”

You’d think that even British Labour MPs might be smart enough to realise that a leader who actively supports ISIS might not go down too well with the voting public…
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November 28, 2015 4:36pm
Manolo

But, but, but….in the UK, devout stephieboy would support and vote for him. 🙂
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November 28, 2015 4:38pm
DJP6-25

Manolo 8:31 am. Even as you type; elite GOPe operatives were in the back yards and basements of America seeking suitable underwear to steal. This policy will pay big dividends very soon. Any day now Donald trump will bow out, and Jeb Bush will be the front runner.

PS: anyone want to buy a bridge in Raqqua? Real cheap.
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November 28, 2015 4:45pm
Manolo

@DJP6-25: I reckon the GOP establishment knows full well Jeb Bush is history, so they will put their money and throw their support behind Marco Rubio.
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November 28, 2015 4:49pm
DJP6-25

Manolo 11;51 am. Yes, just the same kind of people who were prattling on about ‘moral re-armament’ in the 1930s. At least some of them had the legitimate excuse of having been on a battlefield, and not wanting another generation to experience the same horrors. None the less, they unwittingly paved the way for a certain Austrian with a moustache to do his thing.
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November 28, 2015 4:58pm
SPC

Andrei, why does anyone buy oil? That the Syrian government is prepared to buy it off IS would indicate they can get this black market supply cheaply and they perceive IS not to be an immediate threat. Little wonder Russians are then focused on helping them win the west of the country and leaving IS to last.

After all, while al Qaeda in Iraq fled to a base in eastern Syria it is primarily focused on identifying Sunni Arabs north of Baghdad with independence from Iraq in unity with Sunni Arabs in eastern Syria – rather than seeking to depose the regime in Damascus. The Islamic State identity is just a tool to legitimise rebellion/revolution, effectively carve an area out of the two states.
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November 28, 2015 5:06pm
Andrei

Its called confirmation bias Lucia Maria – you read something that confirms your prejudices and you believe it, you read something that challenges them and you want to discount it

Everybody does this without exception

In truth Bashir al Assad for all his sins is the most westernised leader in the Arab world and instututed many reforms in Syria before the so called Arab Spring including granting limited autonomy to the Kurds in the North

He was a Harley Street opthamologist and lived in London for many years and married an English woman of Syrian descent

If people were truely interested in reforming the Arab world he would have been the perfect candidate to help promote those reforms ruling as he did over a secular pluralistic Arab state

But he pissed the Turks, the Saudis, the Qataris, the Israelis and the USA off, for different reasons – so he’s gotta go
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November 28, 2015 5:10pm
DJP6-25

Putin has moved ground forces, and planes into Syria because Russia has a strategically valuable warm water port there. Protecting that is his bottom line. So he supports Assad against the non Daesh rebels. If he perceived Daesh as a threat, he’d attack them too. Unlike western leaders, he is not burdened by a Media Party, ‘academics’,’teachers’ and an ‘entertainment industry’ that think Russia’s history and culture are something shameful. Thus, he has more freedom to act decisively than many Western ‘leaders’.
And, before anybody asks: No, I wouldn’t like to move to Russia, or vote for him.
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November 28, 2015 5:19pm
SPC

Ambition.

IS – Sunni Arabs north of Baghdad with independence from Iraq in unity with Sunni Arabs in eastern Syria – effectively carve an area out of the two states.

Turkey – a new province in NW Syria, a safe zone for Turkmen (and for now cultivated foreign militias). And suppression of the Kurds in alliance with IS (autonomy for Kurds in Syria, as per Iraq, was one reason to depose the regime in Damascus). And with Saudi Arabia exploiting rebellion to realise a Sunni Moslem regime change in the rest of Syria.

Reality

The war against IS – removal of IS from Syria is probable. Their medium term future is probably back in Iraq, where the Iraq government has problems ending Shia forces into Sunni areas.

Russian intervention to secure the west and NW of Syria and to take out the foreign militias based there (Russia/Central Asian and China sourced). And cut off the IS oil supply market routes into Turkey – in possible alliance with Syrian Kurds and FSA forces in that area.
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November 28, 2015 5:33pm
stigie

Aussies not doing that crash hot…5/85 wiping a few smiles off their faces !~
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November 28, 2015 5:41pm
mikenmild

Good watching at the moment, stigie. Really interesting test cricket.
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November 28, 2015 5:46pm
Odakyu-sen

Is it racist for a people to have the right to choose who shall live amongst them?
If you do not have the right to make this choice, then your leaders may freely modify the ethnic composition of your community as they see fit.
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November 28, 2015 5:53pm
Longknives

The great Jonah Lomu deserved better than greasy little Len Brown calling him his “Homeboy” at the Service today..
What the fuck was Len even doing there?
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November 28, 2015 5:57pm
Manolo

These doctos really make you sick:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE1511/S00108/doctors-and-physicians-to-march-for-a-healthier-future.htm

Physicians from across Australia and New Zealand will participate in this weekend’s People’s Climate March as part the Doctors for Climate Action campaign coordinated by the Royal Australasian College of Physicians (RACP).

The Doctors for Climate Action campaign is a global movement to draw together the health and medical community in calling for real action on the health impacts of climate change at the upcoming United Nations Climate Change Conference in Paris (COP21).
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November 28, 2015 6:09pm
SPC

The Oz tralians batting like the Yappies in India -)
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November 28, 2015 6:37pm
mikenmild

That was a pretty good session: six wickets and NZ looking like getting a first-innings lead.
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November 28, 2015 6:38pm
DJP6-25

Manolo 4:49 pm. I guess they might. I’m sure Governor Kasich’s efforts will de-rail the Trump campaign in 5,4,3,2,…. Oh, never mind. 😉 It’d be nice if he’d always engage his brain before opening his mouth though. I guess it’s a difficult job finding the perfect candidate.
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November 28, 2015 6:42pm
Colville

Dammit.
I was just looking at chucking some of my ill gotten gains from the RWC and blowing it on an outside chance that the BlackCaps could win the test and they go and get 3 more wickets! fU*K! payout on a $200 bet dropped from $580 to $350 !
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November 28, 2015 6:48pm
mikenmild

It’d be nice if he’d always engage his brain before opening his mouth though.

It is Trump you’re talking about here.
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November 28, 2015 6:54pm
stigie

Just got back Milky but not near the box, have i heard correctly 8/116 ?
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November 28, 2015 6:55pm
mikenmild

Correct stigie. Starc not batting, so effectively 9 down.
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November 28, 2015 6:58pm
big bruv

Those who are pissed off at the umpires ruling and how they so often favour Aussie now know what the rest of the rugby world feels like when they play the NZ side.
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November 28, 2015 7:12pm
stigie

Does it make you feel any better now that Dad’s good friend Richie is not playing BB ?
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November 28, 2015 7:28pm
big bruv

Stigie

That is a fair question. The answer is that it makes little difference really, I still despise the NZ team.
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November 28, 2015 7:31pm
Kimbo

@ big bruv

Stigie

That is a fair question. The answer is that it makes little difference really, I still despise the NZ team.

‘The despise is strong in this one!’
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November 28, 2015 7:32pm
Gabby

If Syria is buying oil from Islamic State then I guess all those trucks the Ruskers knocked off must’ve been Assad’s. Nothing for Erdogan to be pissed off about. That’ll be why the yankers have been leaving the oil wells alone – well that and concern for the environment. Hold on..
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November 28, 2015 7:33pm
SPC

They are (as are Turkish middle men). The trucks are those of IS. The Russians are not attacking the oil fields either. And for the same reason – there is no one in place to put the fires out.
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November 28, 2015 7:39pm
Witness

” I still despise the NZ team.”

Perhaps Kimbo and I can agree that this is the worst kind of heresy?
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November 28, 2015 7:50pm
Kimbo

@ Witness

Perhaps Kimbo and I can agree that this is the worst kind of heresy?

Ah, my chandalier-swinging blog-rival, you may be right 😉

Gutsy batting by Australia, though, maybe getting them out of jail. Just like the All Blacks, there is no such thing as a bad Aussie cricket team. Which is why beating them is to be treasured.
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November 28, 2015 7:54pm
Witness

Is big bruv Australian?
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November 28, 2015 7:58pm
mikenmild

big bruv is just a misanthrope.
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November 28, 2015 7:59pm
tom hunter

Worth reading the entire post.

On that note Lucia you should also read this article from 2012 about the Algerian Civil War in the 1990’s, published in The National Interest (which has a fairly good reputation for demanding its articles have factual background), by John Schindler: The Ugly Truth About Algeria:

Algeria’s nightmare years of 1993–1997 were a focus of the international human-rights community, which correctly pointed out that the conduct of the government was hardly better than that of Islamist terrorists trying to take over the country. But since 9/11, the Algerian narrative has been subsumed into the West’s counterterrorism effort, to the extent it is reported at all. Enormous poverty, inequality, and the regime’s rapacious and brutal conduct get little attention from Western experts, who seem more interested in speculating about potential Al Qaeda attacks in the Maghreb.

The writer gives a potted history, tracing what happened to that fabulous revolutionary government that Western Leftists have jacked off about for years as one of the great movements that threw off colonialism:

The official story is straightforward. Two decades ago, the military-led junta, which had governed the country since independence from France in 1962, cancelled a democratic election that likely would have brought Islamists to power, and mujahidin took up arms against the secular regime.

By 1993, the supremely violent Armed Islamic Group (GIA) emerged as the implacable foe of the regime and the local Al Qaeda affiliate. Although GIA was not the only Islamist resistance group in the country, it was unquestionably the bloodiest. It conducted brutal attacks not just in Algeria but in Europe as well, including a wave of bombings in Paris in the summer of 1995, remembered by terrorism gurus as Al Qaeda’s first attacks on the West.

Failing to achieve victory, GIA fell into mass murder, slaughtering Algerian civilians by the hundreds, causing Al Qaeda to break ties with the group in early 1997. Largely killed off by the Algerian security forces, by 1998 the remnants of GIA had coalesced into the GSPC, a far smaller group which posed no serious threat to the regime and spent most of its time on kidnappings and robberies.

Here’s where the story gets interesting:

The lead agency in the fight against the Algerian mujahidin has been the country’s military intelligence service, the feared DRS. With a reputation for ruthlessness and efficiency second to none in the Arab world, the DRS is arguably the world’s most effective intelligence service when it comes to fighting Al Qaeda; it is also probably the most cold-blooded. The DRS can be considered the backbone of the military-led junta. General Mohamed Mediene has headed the DRS since 1990, making him the longest-serving intelligence boss in world history —and few doubt that he is the most powerful man in the country.

Trained by the KGB and schooled in the hard fight for independence, Algerian spies have used tactics against homegrown extremists reminiscent of a sinister B-grade movie. Several high-ranking DRS officers have explained what they did to defeat the mujahidin, including violating human rights on an industrial scale, but hardly anyone outside France seems to have noticed.

Published lessons I guess:

Simply put, GIA was the creation of the DRS; using proven Soviet methods of penetration and provocation, the agency assembled it to discredit the extremists. Much of GIA’s leadership consisted of DRS agents, who drove the group into the dead end of mass murder, a ruthless tactic that thoroughly discredited GIA Islamists among nearly all Algerians. Most of its major operations were the handiwork of the DRS, including the 1995 wave of bombings in France. Some of the most notorious massacres of civilians were perpetrated by military special units masquerading as mujahidin, or by GIA squads under DRS control.

Having driven GIA into the ground by the late 1990s, DRS has continued to infiltrate and influence Islamist groups in the country. To what extent the local Al Qaeda affiliate is secretly controlled by the military—as GIA and GSPC were—is an open question, but its recent record suggests that DRS influence over any Algerian extremist group is considerable.

I don’t see why we would not find similar connections between Daesh and the Assad regime, which has decades of Soviet and KGB input, as did Saddam. I put links into another article a month ago, pointing out that Assad and Daesh need each other.

To a certain extent it’s funny because it’s a doppleganger conspiracy theory to the ones about the US and Daesh – but not one we hear of much.
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November 28, 2015 8:04pm
nasska

BB & quite a few others have not adjusted well to professional sport. We used to look upon American gridiron with its rara & cheerleaders as a circus which it was.

Rugby at both provincial & international levels has crossed over from being sport to instead being entertainment. It didn’t take all of its fans with it.
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November 28, 2015 8:06pm
Witness

‘Failing to achieve victory, GIA fell into mass murder, slaughtering Algerian civilians by the hundreds’

I remember this Tom. They killed women, children, even babies. Horrifying.
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November 28, 2015 8:09pm
Witness

How Syria’s Assad Helped Forge ISIS

‘Mohammed Al-Saud is under no illusions. “In 2011, the majority of the current ISIS leadership was released from jail by Bashar Al Assad,” he said. “No one in the regime has ever admitted this, or explained why.” ‘

http://www.newsweek.com/how-syrias-assad-helped-forge-isis-255631
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November 28, 2015 8:15pm
sam green

No reason big bruv. Just despise them for the sake of it?
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November 28, 2015 8:21pm
Gabby

Well I’d’ve thought the Ruskers were leaving the oilfields alone because they expect to regain control of them. I wonder where ISIS got their trucks from.
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November 28, 2015 8:33pm
Griff

Big bruv is only displaying a negative aspect of kiwi culture.
Tall poppy…. Cut it down .
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November 28, 2015 8:34pm
Awww C-mon

Had to tow home my youngest child and his mothers car with a burned out clutch last night. Kinda proud actually, kiwi tradition? or am I more bogan than you intelligent bastards??
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November 28, 2015 8:49pm
nasska

You haven’t told us what you towed it with yet.

It might turn out that you’re a closet Yuppie. 🙂
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November 28, 2015 8:56pm
nasska

If it was a BMW then you’re probably a prime grade wanker to boot. 🙂
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November 28, 2015 8:58pm
Awww C-mon

F-150….

Nah still rocking the hi-ace ?
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November 28, 2015 9:03pm
Awww C-mon

Spot GD quiz inspired by Nasska…

What do u drive?
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November 28, 2015 9:04pm
nasska

2005 Landcruiser 70 flatdeck.
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November 28, 2015 9:07pm
Griff

97 camry wagon.
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November 28, 2015 9:10pm
mikenmild

Why does America have a monopoloy on fundie nutcases?
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/11/26/republican-who-said-autism-was-result-of-gods-anger-over-gay-marriage-will-run-for-congress-again/
Couldn’t we get one or two over here to liven up our political scene?
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November 28, 2015 9:13pm
nasska

We got Colin Craig instead Mike. Not quite a fundie but the fun never stops. 🙂
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November 28, 2015 9:18pm
stigie

“2005 Landcruiser 70 flatdeck”.

But takes the family to town with a 28hp Fergie and trailer !~
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November 28, 2015 9:18pm
Awww C-mon

Freakin Toyota’s all round

Since no one else is here.. What do others drive?

Shawn – public trans
Starboard – amarok
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November 28, 2015 9:19pm
starboard

1995 Mazda Familia lol
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November 28, 2015 9:20pm
Awww C-mon

Dad.. Old bluebird
Nostra… Audi A6
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November 28, 2015 9:21pm
starboard

“97 camry wagon”

pedo express lol
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November 28, 2015 9:21pm
starboard

scottchris..late model VW beetle
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November 28, 2015 9:22pm
Awww C-mon

Had ya picked for trendy 4wd painted like the whirlybird to impress the westcoast slappers Star
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November 28, 2015 9:22pm
Awww C-mon

Maggy… Prius just to fuck with our heads…
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November 28, 2015 9:23pm
nasska

Baity in a Skoda. 🙂
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November 28, 2015 9:24pm
starboard

nah..Ive drive the shitbox around as a daily runner but in my garage I have a 69 Vette convertable 350 with a 4 speed manual as my toy.
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November 28, 2015 9:24pm
Awww C-mon

Witless. People mover to take the youth group out for adventure!!

Kimbo… Swift
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November 28, 2015 9:25pm
starboard

MM rides a bicycle without seat..
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November 28, 2015 9:25pm
stigie

Reid in a Lada !
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November 28, 2015 9:25pm
starboard

Public watchdog–broomstick
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November 28, 2015 9:26pm
Awww C-mon

69 Vette convertable 350 with a 4 speed manual as my toy.

And there it is!! You had to have something to help you pull Star, it ain’t your wit ?
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November 28, 2015 9:26pm

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