General Debate 20 November 2015

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Paulus Gnome

‘Obama to Turnbull: You actually talk to the New Zealanders?’ the horrid has to admit this morning.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11548171

Savour that you ‘gotcha’ gutter ‘journalists’ and envious opposition government wannabes on the other side of the house; this is what the most popular Prime Minister in New Zealands history looks like!
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November 20, 2015 8:02am
Viking2

Smoking cannabis during pregnancy produces infants who score better on one measure of brain development, according to a study of New Zealand children.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11548112

http://screencast.com/t/9OPzdezqcC
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November 20, 2015 8:03am
Inandout

A lot of stats here, and you have to scroll down, but most interesting is the vast majority of Muslims don’t like gays, alcohol, abortion, and sex outside marriage. And the Left hug them..go figure.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
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November 20, 2015 8:04am
Viking2

Fatal attraction isn’t it.
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November 20, 2015 8:05am
Padriv Ustoev

Ladies and Gentlemen, please hear me out.
This rant is of course served tongue in cheek with a grain of salt to rub in your eye.
What if there is a deeper global game? What if Islam In reality, like many say, a useful tool, a useful idiot in the hands of a strong, wealthier, wiser player? Playing a long deep game.
A game so deep that it can be heard on car radios in tunnels.
Is it possible that the recent Paris massacre was masterminded by someone other then a devout Sufi mystic pulling the strings from a dank cave or an isolated compound? Bin Laden – looking at you buddy.
Is it plausible that the fools of Islam, blinded by lust for power and love of God are co-opted and subverted by darker, wealthier and more pragmatic powers? Much like the Social justice warriors of the West pushing the LGBT agenda into every orifice that will fit. Bruce Jenner – can a woman be a woman of the year if she still has her shlong?
A single passport survives smashing into a building inside a flaming plane? Now a passport that survives a suicide vest? Miraculous, Allah be praised.
If this is believable to you, then why is the possibility of a directed global controller directing religious zealots for a deeper, longer-term purpose – so far out of the real of possibility?
A specter hanging over the planet.
Before you throw rolls of tinfoil at me, ask yourself this: who is a more worthy adversary to Western civilization?
A bunch of unemployed, drugged up Muslim twenty somethings from Bristol, trying to splice two wires together and doing their darndest to find the select fire switch on an Chines knock off Ak-74 bought from a Bosnian Gypsy? They seem to be the vanguard of ISIS according to the papers.
OR
Is it the rich men, with families that own entire global industries, who can choke whole countries at their whim. Men so wealthy that they can have helicopter pads on their penthouse roofs, and snipers on the neighboring rooftops – so no one steals their helicopters.
Who do you think can play the long game, and has the resources to fund the kind of mayhem and disinformation the MSM loves to serve up to you?
Islam is a dead end, granted, but is it the mastermind?
Discuss. Also Stephie is a peasant.
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November 20, 2015 8:05am
Paulus

Now that the ex prisoners, who have been deported to where they are Citizens, with more following next week, who is going to pay for their Legal Aid to get them back to Australia ?
Presumably as New Zealand Citizens they are entitled for the New Zealand Taxpayers to pay, up albeit they have not contributed to our Taxes.
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November 20, 2015 8:05am
oldpark

Barack Hussein Obama,better known as “flapjaw or old yeller”. Obama keeps going on about some Americans being afraid of women and children refugees coming to American from Syria. If “Old Yeller” had done his job as leader of the so called free world 4 YEARS ago in Iraq/Syria when ISIS now called Daish terrorists began their murderous rampage, we would not have had any refugees from that area.
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November 20, 2015 8:06am
holysheet

Just a thought on how european border police can determine if a refugee is muslim or not is to offer a pork sandwich as they pass customs. If they refuse to eat it, then refuse them entry.
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November 20, 2015 8:09am
billmurray

I agree with Barack Obama and Malcom Turnbull that John Key is a good leader, a role model, very discerning of them.
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November 20, 2015 8:12am
Captain Mainwaring

“Just a thought on how european border police can determine if a refugee is muslim or not is to offer a pork sandwich as they pass customs. If they refuse to eat it, then refuse them entry.”

Nice idea, but wouldn’t that also pick up Jews?
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November 20, 2015 8:14am
Albert_Ross

Today’s FT has the following under its “Global Round-up”: “Flat stormed in Paris, Lomu dies”

Should I be amused or indignant?
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November 20, 2015 8:14am
Chuck Bird

I just heard Annette King on with Paul Henry say she was going to invalidate the first flag ballot. NZF and the RSA already have promoted this. I hope Andrew Little supports this.
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November 20, 2015 8:15am
oldpark

Wonder what sort of game plan NZ Lotto is playing. Last Saturday the Powerball total prize was 7 Million dollars, Wednesday mid week 7and a Half million dollars. and this Saturday 8 million Dollars. They have been calling it a jackpot, yet the most that has been added to is a miserable 1 million dollars. Either people have stop buying Lotto Tickets,as they have worked out they appear to be buying tickets two or three times for virtually the same so called first prize. The other thought could be the Green Party hate gamblers ,and some of their haters have become embedded in Lotto Headquarters ,and are drip feeding the total weekly prize,hoping Lotto gambling will be abandoned,as the once great real jackpots are no more.
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November 20, 2015 8:17am
G152

Democracy is wasted on the free.
Or free elections are only possible in democracies
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November 20, 2015 8:21am
holysheet

Jews are not “economic” refugees
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November 20, 2015 8:21am
holysheet

Old park, I have been taking the same basic numbers with a few extras since day one of lotto. With the mid week draw I have halved my old spend from $20 in one draw to $10 for both draws now. So lotto has not gained any more $ from me.
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November 20, 2015 8:25am
waikatosinger

Just a thought on how european border police can determine if a refugee is muslim or not is to offer a pork sandwich as they pass customs. If they refuse to eat it, then refuse them entry.

The whole “bacon” thing is shallow and silly and I’m getting tired of it. Does
anyone honestly think a few bacon sandwiches are going to solve anything?
Get serious.
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November 20, 2015 8:30am
waikatogirl

Padriv
… Islam is a dead end, granted, but is it the mastermind?
***
Follow the money. Someone is funding all those rockets and Hylux utes.
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November 20, 2015 8:33am
alloytoo

@Chuck Bird

But But if labour and their ilk boycott the first referendum “Red Peak” will have Zero support.

As usual they haven’t thought this through.

Of course if Labour insist on boycotting/”invalidating” their own policy how do they ever expect us to take them seriously.
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November 20, 2015 8:37am
starboard

Bring it on rag heads, the west will teach you are severe lesson ( once we stop twiddling our thumbs )

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/74225387/paris-attacks-isis-magazine-column-warns-of-impending-911scale-attack
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November 20, 2015 8:43am
Padriv Ustoev

@waikatogirl

That was kind of implied in the post that you follow the money. But yes, you are correct. Just like it turned out the stinger missiles in Afghanistan in the 80s were no locally made.
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November 20, 2015 8:44am
Nukuleka

Inandout: the odd thing about the pewforum poll you refer to is that Muslims around the world are polled about their views of a variety of issues that pertain specifically to their Islamic beliefs, including Sharia Law, the role of women and so on- but they are also polled on several issues that are highly debateable concerns within Western culture as well- such as abortion and euthanasia. To condemn Muslims, as you appear to be doing, because they oppose abortion (and euthanasia) is muddying the waters, as the pewforum people have done.
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November 20, 2015 8:45am
Than

If [Obama] had done his job as leader of the so called free world 4 YEARS ago in Iraq/Syria when ISIS now called Daish terrorists began their murderous rampage,

Very true. The left keep repeating the claim that ISIS is the result of invading Iraq, but that’s utterly ridiculous. The invasion was 12 years ago, and ISIS started in Syria not Iraq.

ISIS was only able to be as successful as it has because of western (and particularly US) inaction during the Arab Spring. In Libya a no-fly zone (initiated by the British and French, with the US only reluctantly joining in later) enabled a successful revolution. The same thing should have been done in Syria but (despite clear evidence of Assad’s brutality and violating declared “red lines”) Obama did nothing. If the west had intervened the rebels would have overthrown Assad in fairly short order. That would have left the challenge of how to establish a new government afterwards (which isn’t easy, Libya promptly descended into civil war), but that’s a far better situation to be in than what exists in Syria today.

Obama’s ‘ignore it and hope it goes away’ foreign policy on the middle-east has been an utter failure, and has left the region more chaotic and dangerous than it has been for decades. I suspect this will be the main thing his presidency is remembered for.
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November 20, 2015 8:48am
peterwn

Perhaps Lotteries Commission is building up a war chest for Christmas draws. Presumably their marketing gurus consider that loss of ticket sales now because of skimpy jackpot allocations will be more than offset by greater ticket sales at Christmas. Presumably also Wednesday sales are weaker than Saturday sales so jackpot increments would be accordingly less.

They cannot keep all of the punters happy all of the time, the aim is to keep most of the punters happy most of the time and exploit human greed. The trick is to hire marketing gurus who understand and know how to exploit the human psyche with a veneer of promoting responsible gambling.
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November 20, 2015 8:48am
Manolo

An imbecile bleeding-heart whinges:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/bob-geldof-warns-millennials-have-blood-stained-hands-after-paris-attacks-those-people-were-killed-a6740161.html

Bob Geldof has issued a stark warning to millennials as the conflict in the Middle East rages and terror attacks blight Europe.

Geldof accused the generation that followed him of having blood on its hands when he took to the stage at the One Young World conference in Bangkok, Thailand on Wednesday.

He has been an outspoken campaigner for refugees and has forcefully criticised governments in the West for failing to do more to ease the crisis.
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November 20, 2015 8:49am
Keeping Stock

I just heard Annette King on with Paul Henry say she was going to invalidate the first flag ballot. NZF and the RSA already have promoted this. I hope Andrew Little supports this.

So do I Chuck, but possibly for different reasons. I am looking forward to the Labour Party proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is completely irrelevant to New Zealand and New Zealanders, and continuing its decline in the polls.
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November 20, 2015 8:53am
Garbageman

@Chuck
I also hope Little endorses Kings position on this, it keeps the Labour party and their hatred of everything democratic in the forefront of everyone’s minds- these muppets will never learn I used to think their ingrained hatred was just KDS but its ingrained into their very soul and every time one of them opens their gob it just reinforces that view
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November 20, 2015 8:54am
Longknives

I was a huge fan of Jonah Lomu, and was, like most people, saddened by his death. A phenomenal player and by all accounts a bloody nice guy.
But I have to say- Something just doesn’t sit right about his Wife starting a ‘Give A Little’ page and asking for handouts from the public (seemingly to keep her in the manner to which she is accustomed?) less than 24 hours after the poor Guy died..
Anyone else think this is a bit off??
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November 20, 2015 8:55am
stephieboy

Manolo, whilst you have your usual whinge binge the French police and security authorities go about their business with great success ,

The suspected ringleader of the Paris attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, was among those killed in a French police raid on Wednesday, prosecutors say.

“They confirmed the Islamic State (IS) militant had died in a flat in the Paris suburb of Saint Denis.
His body was found riddled with bullets and shrapnel in the apartment….”

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34867615
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November 20, 2015 9:01am
Keeping Stock

Even though the media clearly received the statement from Jonah Lomu’s family asking for privacy as they come to terms with their loss, the media seems hell-bent on not respecting that request.

If the sight of Paul Hobbs from One News on Wednesday night commenting on the comings and goings of a hearse, and whether or not it contained Lomu’s body wasn’t bad enough, the Herald plumbs new depths with a photograph of Lomu’s mother at the gate of his home. Here’s the opening paragraphs of the offending story:

As Jonah Lomu’s mother, Hepi, left her son’s Auckland home yesterday, she picked up a yellow rose left on the driveway and smiled.

She had spent several hours inside the Epsom house where Lomu lived with his wife, Nadene, and their young sons, Brayley and Dhyreille.

Lomu, 40, died on Tuesday night of a cardiac arrest. He had an ongoing battle with a rare kidney disorder known as nephrotic syndrome and underwent a transplant in 2004.

Yesterday, Nadene Lomu was not ready to speak publicly about his death. She was with relatives and focusing on her children.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11548163

As much as I believe that the setting up of a Give-A-Little page barely 24 hours after Jonah’s death was a sign that the family is receiving poor advice, the extent to which the media is intruding on the family, and on neighbours of the Lomus should be condemned.
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November 20, 2015 9:02am
Keeping Stock

@ Longknives – being the charitable fellow I am, you will see in my 9.02am comment above that I suspect Mrs Lomu is receiving some very poor advice.
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November 20, 2015 9:06am
Griff

but most interesting is the vast majority of Muslims don’t like gays, alcohol, abortion, and sex outside marriage. And the conservatives hate them..go figure.

To close to home………..?
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November 20, 2015 9:06am
iMP

Two attack letters come to light. COLIN CRAIG is going to sue a Grandma who makes Quilts, with defamation. The hubris of this guy…

https://conzervative.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/107-two-attack-letters-from-colin-craig-behind-the-scenes-of-the-colin-craig-catastrophe-20-nov-2015/
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November 20, 2015 9:16am
Manolo

@stephieboy: Are you mourning heroic Abdelhamid Abaaoud’s passing?
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November 20, 2015 9:23am
Pongo

Anyone else find the sequence of events leading up to todays Herald editorial which is in effect a begging letter for some declining yesteryear political party a bit uncomfortable. First the leak of the dire finances quickly followed by a begging letter and then todays Herald basically saying “Hey big business if you dont donate to Labour they could be the government one day and you will get shafted so pony up now for some insurance”.
Personally I would have thought the hugely favourable for Labour coverage and anti Key (both the younger and the older) theme would have been enough.
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November 20, 2015 9:25am
stephieboy

Manolo, more to the point are you ?

Re Griff’s post at 9.06 am.

Thanks Griff . That will make the rabid righties and Manolo squirm Also many Muslim nations believe in capital punishment and flogging !
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November 20, 2015 9:28am
Garbageman

@Waikatosinger 830am
So close to my first ever report abusive comment
Bacon solves everything – nuff said
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November 20, 2015 9:29am
blazeoflight

In keeping with his general lack of interest in investing for future returns, Bill English is passing the buck on climate change and sea level rise in particular.

The ostrich mentality springs to mind.
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November 20, 2015 9:29am
Inandout

Nukuleka 8.45: Euthanasia and abortion would be generally favoured by the Left, alcohol and extramarital sex more so, but homosexuality is I contend a clear favourite cause for them. The Greens and Labour are first to come out batting for Islam, with the usual patter that ‘only a tiny percentage of Muslims’ are extreme. The stats I linked to are very detailed, and it is difficult to dispute that Islam and the West are like chalk and cheese.
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November 20, 2015 9:29am
blazeoflight

@Inandout

Islam is like the dog that allows children to tease it mercilessly until whammo! And a little boy’s cheek goes missing…
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November 20, 2015 9:32am
stephieboy

blazeoflight, but you must admire their criminal code and as per Griff above or are you a covert trendy leftie ?
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November 20, 2015 9:36am
Keeping Stock

@ Pongo – this is all designed to soften us up for taxpayer funding of political parties, something which is supported by Labour, the Greens, NZ First and the Mana Party. It’s also something which, as a taxpayer, I absolutely oppose.

Once they get their greedy mitts onto OUR money, you can only imagine the slippery slope we start to descend, not to mention how heavily they will tax those of us who work hard to dare to make a decent living.
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November 20, 2015 9:49am
Viking2

Longknives (5,791 comments) says:
November 20th, 2015 at 8:55 am

I was a huge fan of Jonah Lomu, and was, like most people, saddened by his death. A phenomenal player and by all accounts a bloody nice guy.
But I have to say- Something just doesn’t sit right about his Wife starting a ‘Give A Little’ page and asking for handouts from the public (seemingly to keep her in the manner to which she is accustomed?) less than 24 hours after the poor Guy died..
Anyone else think this is a bit off??
=========================
Came to comment about this.
Yesterday it was to continue his legacy, whatever that was, but today its for the benefit of his children.

That has to be a piss take if ever there was.

People are free to spend their own money and give as they which but the askers should be a least clear about where the money is going and where it will be used.

Excusing it on the grounds of poor advice is a bit weak KS.
These are media savy people who have used the media and milked it for a longtime. So asking for privacy after collecting the milk is a bit of piss take as well.
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November 20, 2015 9:51am
s.russell

How embarrassing that the best newspaper tribute to Jonah Lomu is Irish.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11548422
Good on the Irish Examiner though! That is a GREAT front page.
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November 20, 2015 9:57am
Keeping Stock

@ V2 – as I said, I’m a charitable sort. With Lomu’s death, I’m prepared to cut his wife some slack in that she wasn’t acting especially rationally. Having been through the grief process a few times, I know how much it screws up your judgment.
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November 20, 2015 9:58am
Harriet

“….I agree with Barack Obama and Malcom Turnbull that John Key is a good leader, a role model, very discerning of them….”

LOL – albeit that he doesn’t mean it – Barry has spoken of freedom and liberty in the last 8 years of his Presidency. And Malcolm did so within his first 8 days of being pm.

Key in the last 8 yrs never has —- and he’s now going to raise HIS new flag — and to what exactly?

If Key can’t give a freedom and liberty speech in 8yrs then Key is no leader….he’s nothing! 😎
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November 20, 2015 10:00am
Griff

blazeoflight
English thinks it is all to uncertain
Unfortunately for a idiot like him the uncertainty is not your friend when mounting evidence indicates potential is much worse than the recent ipcc projections suggest.
Hasen recent paper was rather terrifying.
http://www.atmos-chem-phys-discuss.net/15/20059/2015/acpd-15-20059-2015.pdf
Ice melt, sea level rise and superstorms:
evidence from paleoclimate data, climate
modeling, and modern observations that
2C global warming is highly dangerous

I do recognize that his paper was speculative and probably not fully supported by evidence.
Hensens record on these things makes his work something to take note of.
It should be a wake up call to those who sit on their hands .
Many will not be able to be woken.
As they are clinically brain dead.
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November 20, 2015 10:06am
Viking2

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11548319

Yeh right.
Sounds like a Tamaki church behavior. collect from the poor to make a couple of kids nice little rich kids.

Next we will have the PM needing a Give a Little page when he retires.

Little might perhaps.
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November 20, 2015 10:12am
srylands

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/290105/sea-levels-'like-an-unfolding-red-zone‘

“Sea levels ‘like an unfolding red zone”

Radio New Zealand is being hysterical about sea level rise.

“Meanwhile, Greenpeace executive director Russel Norman said the government was not taking the problem at all seriously.

He said the government constantly told the country it was too expensive to seriously cut New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions.

“What this report shows is that it’s much, much more expensive if we don’t cut our emissions working with other governments, and we get dangerous climate change and sea level rise, it’s going to cost us many, many billions of dollars.”

No Mr Norman the report shows no such thing.

“Analysis from the Insurance Council has shown the replacement costs of assets located between 0.5m and 1.5m from mean high tide levels would be between $3 billion and $20 billion.”

So lets take the mid level estimate – $10 billion. If we spread this expenditure over 50 years it is no big deal. If we did as Mr Norman wanted us to do, we would drive the economy back to an agrarian basket case. That would cost a lot more than $10 billion.
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November 20, 2015 10:26am
Captain Mainwaring

Griff, you and tunnelofdark seem to have struck up a friendship.
I heard an old lady on talkback this morning. She lives in Eastbourne and was saying that the occasional seawater surges onto that road are no worse or more frequent than they were over 50 years ago. It’s what happens when a spring tide conicides with a big Southerly.
I’m pleased that Bill English is stewarding the taxpayers’ money in a responsible manner and is not reacting unnecessarily to scaremongering about what ‘might’ happen in 50-100 years time.
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November 20, 2015 10:29am
Komata

Concerning Mrs. Lomu. There is another aspect to this which so far no-one is mentioning; the Pacific Island practice of providing money (often in very large amounts) to the widow / widower to ‘cover the expenses’ associated with the death and the need to look after the family. I would hypothesis that the lady is already a recipient of such largess, although as I am familiar with Nuiean practice rather than Tongan, perhaps David Garratt can confirm that this would be the case and perhaps confirm my basic premise. Money for the children’s future would certainly be very helpful, but the way that this seems to be being handled would suggest that perhaps other forces are in play and that a significant proportion of what may be received will be ‘diverted’ to other destinations. The fact that Mrs. Lomu is European may reduce this possibility and things might actually work out as intended, but observation and personal experience indicates that unless she is very strong, this may not be the case. One can but hope, of course…

As I said, I am not familiar with specific Tongan practice in such matters, so perhaps DG can give us the benefit of his experience and also his thoughts on this matter. Thank you in advance Mr. Garratt.
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November 20, 2015 10:35am
marleybob

I see Slater has lost his appeal to keep his sources secret.
I guess he will have his begging bowl out again.
http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/slater-loses-appeal-to-keep-sources-secret/ar-BBnbMxH?ocid=spartandhp
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November 20, 2015 10:41am
All_on_Red

Marley bob
Incorrect, he lost an appeal to introduce new evidence
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November 20, 2015 10:43am
Garbageman

@ Harriet
wow do you put a lot of emphasis on speechifying, somewhat strange since most leader don’t even prepare their own, and what exactly will a “freedom & liberty” speech accomplish, will it feed the poor starving children or slim down the fatties or maybe it will make the “vulnerable “in NZ feel all good about themselves ??
Btw “he’s nothing”. Really, would you care to list your accomplishments in comparison
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November 20, 2015 10:46am
Paulus

I assume the Water half metre rise assumption presented by Dr somebody to do with Environment was written by Russel Norman of Greenpeace.
Trust Dunedin to panic – other Councils will follow to get more Tax/Ratepayers money.

Its assumptions of a half metre World seawater level are farcical to say the least.

What are we paying such people for.
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November 20, 2015 10:51am
Don the Kiwi

I’m a little bemused about Nadine Lomu opening a “Give-a-Little” page on facebook.

Didn’t Jonah hit the rich list about 15 years ago, with an estimated wealth of $15 mil. ?? If that is so, what has happened to his wealth? Has it all been used up for his treatment?

This is not a criticism but a query. I would support it if Jonah’s wealth went in treating him. But if it didn’t, surely his wife and children are well provided for.

Does anyone out there know?
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November 20, 2015 10:59am
FeralScrote

More sheer fucking stupidity from the academic illiterati set,

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11547883

Seriously what the fuck has happened that teachers have no grasp on reality?
Do we blame the Health and Safety fuckwits or is it just that commonsense has died?
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November 20, 2015 10:59am
Maggy Wassilieff

@Komata 10:35

Mr Garrett is in the naughty corner.
He can not comment back here for another week.
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November 20, 2015 11:02am
dime

lmao andrew little is a fuckwit.

when asked if their should be a state funeral for Jonah:

“”I think it would be over the top.

“He is a great rugby hero, he is an international hero.

“It’s not a case for a state funeral, I wouldn’t agree with it.””

Then this from stuff:

“State funerals are traditionally reserved for prime ministers who die in office, governor generals, pioneers, war veterans and, in some cases, victims of disasters.”

politicians really are a bunch of up themselves fuckwits:

“prime ministers who die in office” – generally hated by half the population. imagine a state funeral for someone like little or cunliffe lol Prime Ministers just arent that special.

“governor generals” – meh why? maybe if they are in office.. i guess.

“war veterans” – agree with this one obviously.

“pioneers” – so Jonah.

Sir Ed was the last in 2008. For me, Jonah is right up there with Sir Ed.

I cant think of a famous kiwi i like more than Jonah.
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November 20, 2015 11:11am
EAD

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-19/most-important-question-about-isis-nobody-asking
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November 20, 2015 11:14am
Witness

‘Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.’

1 John 4:7-8
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November 20, 2015 11:16am
Fletch

What do you think? Trailer for the new movie version of Dad’s Army coming out next year. Somehow it doesn’t look very appealing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLEhGWIdWag
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November 20, 2015 11:18am
blazeoflight

@srylands

Your analysis regarding the costs of sea level rise (and although sea level rise is immediately visible, it’s just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the total effects of continued emissions) is too simplistic. English’s approach is illustrated by the fable of Emperor Nero fiddling while Rome burned. You also demonstrate ignorance of a basic concept of economics, that of opportunity cost, rather than the blinkered cost accounting mentality of this government.

Put simply, by tackling this problem head on now, we may have the time to arrive at innovative, economically rewarding solutions that will be missed if we wake up one day when homes, roads and infrastructure are being lost to the sea and are forced to react in haste.

What’s needed is not panic, but adequate funding for the appropriate groups to carry out strategic analyses of the range of possibilities, from a rapid wind down in global emissions (out of our control and unlikely, it seems) to continuing to emit CO2 at an increasing rate. The public needs to be better informed so there can be a better understanding of what is at stake. Much money is at risk of being sunk into stranded assets, and the financial risk some people will expose themselves to may be ruinous for them.

And bear in mind that 1.5m is not a limit: it’s only the short term rise, and 1.5m will be followed by more metres if we don’t get emissions under control. There is no uncertainty about that. And in claiming ‘uncertainty’ as his inhibiting factor, English is simply being reckless – although I think the true reason is that he is still the Dipton denier.
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November 20, 2015 11:18am
jcuk

I see South Dunedin is listed as a danger area for flooding as a result of global warming or something … this has been know about for decades and still people build new properties in the area and no doubt will expect others who built higher up to save their bacon … begin to wonder if the RWNJs here may have a point about the NZ nation of bludgers, or foolish gamblers.
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November 20, 2015 11:24am
Reid

Somehow it doesn’t look very appealing.

The show’s designers probably sought advice from the NZ Liarbore Party and the NZ Herald
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November 20, 2015 11:31am
stephieboy

EAD, in case you jump to conclusions Israel currently imports its oil from Northern Iraq under control of the Kurds . It also buys oil from a diverse range of countries including Russia ,Azerbaijan , Kazakstan , Norway, Angola and Nigeria. The US now imports little oil from the Middle East importing mainly from the Western Hemisphere , Nigeria and its own old production.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/150f00cc-472c-11e5-af2f-4d6e0e5eda22.html#axzz3ryk2kk00

Now who buys ISIS oil? Possibly likely China and India and a number of other countries including Japan ,SE Asia , both Koreas etc . Who knows ?
.

Ideas ?,
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November 20, 2015 11:33am
jcuk

You really cannot expect a conservative government, despite its LOC leanings, to do more than twiddle its thumbs over the question of sea level rising and flooding.
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November 20, 2015 11:36am
Inandout

Paulus: The Dunedin Mayor is yet another ex TV presenter who is an expert on everything. He fronted a ‘home improvement’ show, but this talents obviously didn’t transfer to his job, as he failed to notice a member of his staff was flogging off ex council cars. He also wants to inflict loads of Syrian migrants on his city.
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November 20, 2015 11:39am
Maggy Wassilieff

@Viking2 8:03

How difficult would it have been for the NZ Herald to attach a reference to the scientific paper on effect of prenatal exposure to marijuana on infants’ visual perception?

The paper is not fire-walled. Here it is:
http://www.nature.com/articles/srep16921
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November 20, 2015 11:40am
Scott

Fletch at 11:18 AM – I don’t know, a new version of dad’s Army could be fun? Also anything with Catherine Zeta Jones is well worth looking at!
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November 20, 2015 11:41am
mandk

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/74124689/single-childless-see-more-benefit-from-living-wage-than-struggling-families

“Single, childless see more benefit from living wage than struggling families”

Well, blow me down! Who would have thought?
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November 20, 2015 11:47am
LegioXII

ISLAM IN AMERICA: The Imported Evil

‘Make no mistake: Islam is a sadistic and brutal ideology masquerading as a religion. Its core doctrines (as I have often written about) are violently antithetical to our deeply rooted Judeo-Christian heritage.

Even a cursory examination of Islam’s past reveals the utter barbarity it has perpetrated on mankind. From the Battle of The Trench in 627 AD to ISIS–Islam has cut a swath of murder, mayhem and misery across the planet for centuries.

History tells us that Islam’s founder, Mohammed–was a warmongering misogynist who had a penchant for girls under the age of ten. His ravenous appetite for murder and rape made him one of the most violent figures of the seventh century.’

http://clashdaily.com/2015/06/islam-in-america-the-imported-evil/
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November 20, 2015 11:48am
LegioXII

Canadian Man Gets 18 Months in Jail for saying “Islam is Evil”

‘Eric Brazau has long been an opponent of Islam – but he has never committed any physical act of violence against anyone. In fact, he hasn’t ever even suggested that violence be done to anyone else… ever. But the Canadian government recently arrested Brazau for a “hate crime.”

What crime did he commit?

He was arrested and then denied bail for saying that he hated Islam.

Things got even worse when Brazau went before a judge…

Eric BrazauThe judge told him,

“You had a ticket to ride, not a pass to harass”

Judge Lapkin sentenced Brazau to 18 months in prison, and an additional 2 years probation when he’s released. He even added a weapons ban to these 2 years probation, because in Lapkin’s point of view

“…words are weapons too.”

This is actually Brazau’s second arrest for this “crime”… (honestly, it pains me to even pretend that it’s reasonable to call this kind of speech a “crime”.) Mr. Brazau was arrested earlier in 2014 for handing out flyers that denounced Islam.’

This is the result of multiculturalism.
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November 20, 2015 11:52am
Scott

On another topic can I just say that Russia is doing good work in the Middle East bombing Isis. Once they found out that the Russian airliner was bought down by an Isis affiliate they have started serious combat operations against them – 100 combat sorties yesterday and 126 the day before. This is serious stuff and in marked contrast to the United States under the leadership of Obama which occasionally might send 8 sorties against Isis. 100 sorties a day is waging a war, 8 sorties a day is just a show, to try and convince the American public that you are doing something.

I have also heard that Russia is doing all it can to protect Christians and other religious minorities from persecution. Isn’t that an amazing turn of events? The United States of America does nothing to protect Christians and other religious minorities but they get help from the Russians!

Those who think Obama is really a Christian, I think that belief is open to question? Putin is probably more of a Christian then Obama is. At least Putin helps the Christians while Obama seemingly couldn’t care less.
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November 20, 2015 11:53am
mikenmild

Have I missed something about Christianity, Scott? Does being warlike make Putin more of a Christian than Obama?
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November 20, 2015 11:59am
LegioXII

‘The United States of America does nothing to protect Christians and other religious minorities but they get help from the Russians!’

I would expect most citizens of the USA would want to protect them, but they have an Islam loving piece of shit as a President. Hanging would be too good for that treasonous, smirking asshole. Kudos to the Russians for stepping up.
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November 20, 2015 12:00pm
stephieboy

Legio XII , there is more to Eric Brazau than meets your highly selective eye

Protester gets 9 months for promoting hatred against Muslims
Eric Brazau says he will appeal his sentence for willful promotion of hatred and criminally harassment of a Muslim family.

A notorious protester convicted of wilfully promoting hatred against Muslims and criminally harassing a Muslim man and his family was sentenced Tuesday to nine months in jail.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/04/01/protester_gets_9_months_for_promoting_hatred_against_muslims.html

Now for example what if the family had been Jews ?

Would that be Ok ?
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November 20, 2015 12:03pm
LegioXII

The slimy creature calling itself mikenmild does not get the point, and asks yet another of it’s wanker questions to deflect from the issue. What makes Putin more of a Xtian than Obama is his willingness to protect Xtians from persecution. I am not a Xtian, but even I can see the decency and virtue in what Putin is doing. That this mikenmild slime cannot speaks volumes about what kind of a low, mewling piece of puke it is.
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November 20, 2015 12:04pm
LegioXII

Hatred for the Islamic disease is a virtue.
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November 20, 2015 12:07pm
mikenmild

Okay Lego, tell me what your authoritarian pal Putin is doing to protect Christians that Obama is not doing.
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November 20, 2015 12:09pm
stephieboy

Scott, the number of sorties flown by Russian aircraft pales in comparison to that of the US in both Iraq and Syria ,

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/09/30/-Thousands-of-U-S-sorties-flown-in-ISIS-war.html

And I suppose you would describe Obama as weak and feeble when those 4,000 plus sorties are instructed to avoid civilian casualties especially in built up areas . My impression is that Assad and Putin appear to have no such scruples .
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November 20, 2015 12:12pm
Tauhei Notts

I watched Chris Finlayson’s replies to questions about public access to Mount Eden.
Finlayson gave the impression of a gentleman whose truthfulness I doubt a bit.
Finlayson possesses all the attributes of a slimeball, who is in parliament with the sole job of making Ron Mark look good. It is time for Key to promote a back bencher to take his place.
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November 20, 2015 12:19pm
Harriet

“…..Have I missed something about Christianity, Scott? Does being warlike make Putin more of a Christian than Obama?…”

Milky,

And what exactly are NZ’s homo poofters saying about ME gay men being thrown off buildings – fuck all – just like the useless NZ feminist bitches won’t say ‘Islamic rape culture’. You couldn’t give a fuck about gay men could you poof?

Given that a back-pussy like you sides with the enemy Milky —- it’s us real men, gay and straight, who are doing the heavy lifting!

Stand up for your mates you kiwi poofter coward! 😎
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November 20, 2015 12:20pm
sam green

Hatred is not a virtue LegioXII .
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November 20, 2015 12:20pm
mikenmild

Are you feeling okay, Harriet?
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November 20, 2015 12:21pm
Shawn Herles

Obama Wants to Defeat America, Not ISIS: His real enemy isn’t the Caliph of ISIS, but the ordinary American.

” Last year at a NATO summit, Obama explicitly disavowed the idea of containing ISIS. “You can’t contain an organization that is running roughshod through that much territory, causing that much havoc, displacing that many people, killing that many innocents, enslaving that many women,” he said.

Instead he argued, “The goal has to be to dismantle them.”

Just before the Paris massacre, Obama shifted back to containment. “From the start, our goal has been first to contain them, and we have contained them,” he said.

Pay no attention to what he said last year. There’s a new message now. Last year Obama was vowing to destroy ISIS. Now he had settled for containing them. And he couldn’t even manage that.

ISIS has expanded into Libya and Yemen. It struck deep into the heart of Europe as one of its refugee suicide bombers appeared to have targeted the President of France and the Foreign Minister of Germany. That’s the opposite of a terrorist organization that had been successfully contained.

Obama has been playing tactical word games over ISIS all along. He would “degrade and ultimately destroy” ISIS. Or perhaps dismantle the Islamic State. Or maybe just contain it.

Containment is closest to the truth. Obama has no plan for defeating ISIS. Nor is he planning to get one any time soon. There will be talk of multilateral coalitions. Drone strikes will take out key figures. And then when this impressive war theater has died down, ISIS will suddenly pull off another attack.

And everyone will be baffled at how the “defeated” terrorist group is still on the march.

The White House version of reality says that ISIS attacked Paris because it’s losing. Obama also claimed that Putin’s growing strength in Syria is a sign of weakness. Never mind that Putin has all but succeeded in getting countries that were determined to overthrow Assad to agree to let him stay.

Weakness is strength. Strength is weakness.

Obama’s failed wars occupy a space of unreality that most Americans associate with Baghdad Bob bellowing that there are no American soldiers in Iraq. (There are, according to the White House, still no American ground forces in Iraq. Only American forces in firefights on the ground in Iraq.)

There’s nothing new about any of this. Obama doesn’t win wars. He lies about them.”

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260822/obama-wants-defeat-america-not-isis-daniel-greenfield
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November 20, 2015 12:22pm
Shawn Herles

Go Harriet!!! 🙂
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November 20, 2015 12:24pm
Shawn Herles

Post-Paris, Obama Doubles Down: More Refugees Coming: The President seems intent on creating the circumstances for a Paris-style jihad attack on U.S. soil.

“Despite what he termed the “setback” of last Friday’s jihad massacre in Paris, Barack Obama announced Monday that he was pressing forward with his scheme to flood the U.S. with at least 10,000 refugees from Syria, terming opposition to his plan “shameful.” Obama seems intent on recreating in the U.S. the circumstances that led to the jihad attacks in Paris – which were perpetrated by at least two “refugees” who had just recently arrived in Europe.”

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260814/post-paris-obama-doubles-down-more-refugees-coming-robert-spencer
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November 20, 2015 12:26pm
Shawn Herles

Obama’s Three Lynch Mob Movements: The left-wing lynchers doing the president’s bidding in the streets.

” Barack Obama’s demagogic presidency has unleashed state-sanctioned mob violence to a degree not seen since the Jim Crow era.

Obama-approved lynch mobs have been helping to force the fundamental transformation of America that the radical left-wing community organizer promised on the campaign trail in 2008. Creating little armies of malcontents has long been the way Obama’s fellow Marxist agitators have turned groups in society against each other in order to generate the civil unrest and societal instability needed to effect unwanted change. Sometimes thugs get things done that elections can’t.”

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260808/obamas-three-lynch-mob-movements-matthew-vadum
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November 20, 2015 12:27pm
Shawn Herles

Obama’s Permanent Protest: Why the rise in rioting and civil unrest under Obama is no coincidence, but part of the plan.

” After making America poorer, weaker, less free, more race-obsessed and balkanized throughout his tumultuous presidency, Barack Obama is gearing up to use his two tax-exempt nonprofits to continue attacking what remains of the republic’s civil society after he leaves office in 14 months.

Obama’s presidency “has been pockmarked by rioting, looting and protests,” as he “encouraged the nonstop civil unrest exhausting the nation,” writes the Hoover Institution’s Paul Sperry. Obama and his “army of social justice bullies” are going to make things worse before he leaves office on Jan. 20, 2017.”

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260841/obamas-permanent-protest-matthew-vadum
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November 20, 2015 12:29pm
Gabby

I’ll cancel a lockjaw vote by going for the corkscrew and ignoring the rest. Even a maidenhair fern wouldn’t do it for me.
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November 20, 2015 12:32pm
Shawn Herles

Obama’s ‘Shameful’ Policy Toward Middle Eastern Christians

“In his press conference in Turkey on Monday, President Obama called “shameful” the proposals to give special treatment to Christian refugees from the Middle East.

The Obama administration has abandoned Middle Eastern Christians and other minorities during years of violent assaults. The Obama refugee program has simply ignored the plight of such religious minorities, treating them no better than Muslims despite the obvious fact that their own situation is far worse.

Middle Eastern Christians face special dangers and have a special need for rescue, and they pose no risk to the United States. Surely it would be simple enough to devise tests that verify that people who claim to be Christians are indeed Christians—from asking them questions about their religious upbringing, to the fact that Muslims but not most Middle Eastern Christians are circumcised, to seeking church records and testimony from pastors and priests. What’s shameful is an American refugee policy that ignores the agony of Middle Eastern Christian communities.”

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamas-shameful-policy-toward-middle-eastern-christians_1065479.html
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November 20, 2015 12:33pm
Gabby

Obama likes Ponyboy’s talk bullshit, do nothing style.
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November 20, 2015 12:33pm
Witness

Attacks in Israel Leave 5 Dead, Including US Teen

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2015/November/Attacks-in-Israel-Leave-5-Dead-Including-US-Teen/
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November 20, 2015 12:40pm
dime

“The slimy creature calling itself mikenmild does not get the point, and asks yet another of it’s wanker questions to deflect from the issue.”

to be fair, oonly 98% of his posts are like that. the other 2% are about sport.
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November 20, 2015 12:43pm
Viking2

Obvious rort finally makes the news.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11548482
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November 20, 2015 12:43pm
Witness

Under the Radar: God’s Smuggler Brings Gospel to Darkest Places on Earth

‘For decades, a missionary known as Brother Andrew has had one mission, and that is to bring the Gospel to some of the darkest places on earth.

“God spoke to me again through his Word, ‘Awake, strengthen what remains, which is at the point of death.’ “Then I understood I had to go to the Christians,” he said.

In 1955, he made his first of many trips behind the Iron Curtain, delivering Bibles and encouraging the Church in the communist world.

He became known as God’s smuggler.

In a 2014 webcast hosted by his ministry Open Doors, Brother Andrew shared that in the 1970s he sensed communism was dying and a new evil was rising to take its place.

“The only power that can overcome a bad power is a worse power and I saw that already then as Islam,” he said.

Today, his ministry to the persecuted Church stretches to 60 nations.

It’s annual World Watch list highlights the suffering of Christians and calls on the Church to pray and speak out on their behalf.’

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2015/November/Gods-Smuggler-Brings-Gospel-to-Darkest-Places-on-EarthGods-Smuggler-Brings-Gospel-to-Darkest-Places-on-Earth/
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November 20, 2015 12:43pm
stephieboy

Shawn Herles, your usual con media tripe and lies. Obama feels the best way to help Christians , Yazidis and Shia etc is the 4000 plus air sorties plus training the Iraq armed forces to fight them as well as military aid .

He does not feel simplistically turning up uninvited as in 2003 is a good idea . The 2003 war that began this mess .

Christians are not the only one facing special dangers as Shia and Yazidis will inform you and your American Conservative Christians The ME Christians were tragically abandoned long ago in the 1st Lebanese and subsequent civil wars .

Read more here and be informed ,

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14649284
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November 20, 2015 12:45pm
LegioXII

Dime, ‘to be fair, oonly 98% of his posts are like that. the other 2% are about sport.’

I have noticed. The creature mikenmild is clearly feeble minded and unable to do more than spew bile at it’s betters.
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November 20, 2015 12:50pm
mikenmild

Pleased to meet you too, Lego. I really can’t get enough fundie nutcases to tease.
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November 20, 2015 1:11pm

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