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October 7, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 7 October 2015

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General Debate

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Rufus

Griff.

yes I did miss “culture”. I thought about editing, but I thought it would be clear to the non-aspies amongst us what I was asking, since I referred to your question. Apologies that the slight misquote is such a stumbling block.

Griff 11:09 am – “Before the Christians destroyed the wests cultures woman were treated as equals.
Boudica springs to mind.”

Proof please Griff, that:
* Christians destroyed the West’s culture. Do you have an exact date when this started? When did they finish?
* Women were treated as equals (to whom? – men, I presume) before Christians “destroyed” the west’s culture

You might like to research the origin and use of the word “atheist”. It was applied to Christians, since they didn’t believe in the pantheon of greek and roman gods, but worshipped only the Jewish one.

You might like to make sure you actually have some evidence for your claims – you claim Christianity destroyed the west’s culture, but all you can come up with as proof is

“From what I have read most western cultures before Rome did have a higher regard for the rights of woman and their place in society.
In my own ancestors case we dont know.

Because almost the entire culture has dissipated under the weight of mostly christian invaders as has the language.”

Really? –
1. “from what I have read”, what have you read Griff, give us some references
2. “most western cultures before Rome” which “western” cultures Griff and what made them “Western”? I thought our “western” culture today rests on the shoulders of Greek/Roman/Christian culture. Roman culture didn’t hold women all that high. Neither did Greek.

Christianity, on the other hand taught men, women and children were equal before God. Equally in need of forgiveness and redemption, created and loved by the same God and therefore equal in value.

3. “have a higher regard for the rights of women and their place in society” utter nonsense. You’re projecting your modern western values into antiquity.

You’re full of it Griff.

You also conflate Roman Catholic and Roman society culture with Christian culture/teachings.

What Jesus taught is not necessarily what the Roman Catholic Church taught. What the Roman Catholic Church taught is not necessarily what people in those societies did.

Jesus Himself said (paraphrase) that if people taught and did things other than what He taught, they weren’t His followers.

“by their fruits you shall know them” ” wheat and chaff” “if you love me you will obey my commands” and all that.
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October 7, 2015 5:10pm
AgentBallSack

I am afraid it’s not looking good for Alex. Hope its not the worst case scenario though!
The relative has been remanded in custody for possession of a knife
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October 7, 2015 5:11pm
rangitoto

“You also conflate Roman Catholic and Roman society culture with Christian culture/teachings”

It’s a valid conflation for 1,500 plus years as there wasn’t a lot of cultural difference between the various orthodox and catholic churches. Once arianism was outlawed by Constantine and Theodosius declared nicene christianity to be the state religion of the empire, most of the heresies were stamped out until the great schism between east and west. Since the reformation, christianity has splintered into hundreds, if not thousands of different sects with varying teachings.
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October 7, 2015 5:22pm
Keeping Stock

@ ABS – one had to wonder what a 10yo boy was doing out overnight with an older man. It seems this story will likely have a sad ending. My thoughts are with Alex’s family; this must be an awful time for them.
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October 7, 2015 5:24pm
Rufus

rangitoto – and as long as they are in agreement with the teachings of its founder, then yes, they are “Christianity”.

But you’d be hard pressed to hold that teaching women are worth less than men when Jesus and his disciples/apostles taught the opposite.

Then you have to say those promoting that teaching are not true to their founder and His teaching. They are in error.

I’d still be interested in Griff’s proof that Christianity destroyed “Western” culture. OR what he means by “western culture” in the past.
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October 7, 2015 5:29pm
Reid

The Russians have unleashed their own version of “shock and awe” in Syria, and the brutal efficiency of their airstrikes against ISIS targets has stunned many observers around the globe. For more than a year, the Obama administration has claimed that its bombing campaign in Syria has been a “success”, and yet ISIS has continued to grow stronger and gain more territory. But now just over a few days the tide of the conflict appears to have turned. The whole world has gotten a chance to see what a global superpower can truly do to a bunch of radical Islamic terrorists when it is focused and determined. The images that we have seen of hardened ISIS command centers being wiped off the face of the map by Russian bombs are truly impressive. But why did those targets still exist in the first place? Was the U.S. military unable to identify them previously? Or could it be possible that the Obama administration did not want to hit them?

What we do know is that a state of panic has been created among ISIS militants that we have not seen previously. There are reports of hundreds of terrorists abandoning their positions and trying to flee the country…

…Of course the mainstream media in the United States is downplaying the effectiveness of these attacks. The Obama administration is very much against these Russian airstrikes, and it is quite an embarrassment to the U.S. that the Russians are doing what we were either unwilling or unable to do…

…Inside Russia, these airstrikes are proving to be extremely popular…

…One popular Russian commentator even suggested that what is going on in Syria shows that in contrast to Barack Obama, Vladimir Putin is “a real man”…

…Without a doubt, this entire episode is making the Obama administration look rather pathetic.

For weeks, Obama seemed to have little idea what the Russians intended to do in Syria. And now that the Russians are bombing the living daylights out of ISIS, the best that Obama can do is whine loudly about it.

The Russians appear to be succeeding where Obama failed, and this has put the U.S. government in a very precarious position in the Middle East. After seeing the Russians have such success inside Syria, the president of Iraq is now considering asking the Russians to conduct a similar campaign inside his own nation…

Of course the truth is that the U.S. could have dealt a decisive blow to ISIS long ago if it truly wanted to…

…So what will Obama’s next move be?

Nobody knows for sure, but it will almost certainly be the wrong one.

This is very dangerous you know. This is the first time anyone has stood up to the US since the Berlin Wall came down and for decades previous to that it was a stand off with the US obviously with the upper hand. Now, geopolitically, Putin has pulled down Obama’s pants in front of the class.

So what’s Obama going to do now?

What happens will answer for me, at least, a lot of important questions I have. And of course it will raise new ones.

Politics.

Don’t you just love it.

But seriously, this is serious.
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October 7, 2015 5:31pm
Johnboy

“…So what will Obama’s next move be?”

Perhaps a nude centerfold with Putin to prove just who really is “The Real Man” Reid? 🙂

Barrack should have the genetic advantage there of course! 🙂
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October 7, 2015 5:35pm
rangitoto

“Rangitoto – and as long as they are in agreement with the teachings of its founder, then yes, they are “Christianity”.

But you’d be hard pressed to hold that teaching women are worth less than men when Jesus and his disciples/apostles taught the opposite.”

Well no christian churches allowed woman priests until recent times. So I guess you are saying that there were no christians until recently
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October 7, 2015 5:37pm
Johnboy

Then again of course if Putin is a descendant of Rasputin it could make for an interesting photo spread! 🙂
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October 7, 2015 5:39pm
Rufus

rangitoto – do you understand “equal but different” ?
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October 7, 2015 5:41pm
Reid

https://www.rt.com/news/317805-russia-hit-isis-tuesday/
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October 7, 2015 5:42pm
Rufus

ie equal in value before God, but at the same time assigned different roles, different responsibilities, etc.
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October 7, 2015 5:43pm
Johnboy

“Vlad Putin, Vlad Putin…Russias greatest war machine” 🙂
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October 7, 2015 5:45pm
SPC

Is that like apartheid, where blacks were equal in that they had their own bantustans where they could vote.

And in Christendom it led to the presumption that women could not own property or vote.
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October 7, 2015 5:46pm
Griff

rufus
No true Scotsman fallacy…..
What you are proposing as Christendom was not what was Christendom for many generations.
slavery is not treating you fallow man as equal.
Neither is it being legal to rape your wife.
A child is to be seen not heard is not equal either.
A jew had no rights in most of the west for hundreds of years.
These are all things imposed by Christendom.
All possessions of a woman became the goods of the man on marriage again not equal treatment .

Witches were woman who healed and a remnant of the earlier culture what happened to them?
Do you have any information about the druids belief system?
Can you give me a single word in English that predates Rome ? I know of one such word only

Your modern views about Christendom have no relevance to what it was in the past.
at all.

What Jesus taught is not necessarily what the Roman Catholic Church taught. What the Roman Catholic Church taught is not necessarily what people in those societies did.

The roman catholic church was the christian church. What it teachers has very little to do with the gospels according to M,M,L,J and even the other gospels like Thomas and Mary it suppressed and destroyed.
It was the only church permitted on threat of death in most of the west for well over a thousand years .
What it decreed had to obeyed
Or you got a nice little bonfire with you the center piece.
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October 7, 2015 5:46pm
nasska

….”Auckland Council’s long running legal action against rates protester Penny Bright has stalled yet again, with the case adjourned because it was not clear whether key documents had been given to Bright.

Bright owes $34,000 and has steadfastly refused to pay rates since 2007.

Auckland District Court judge Josephine Bouchier has deferred the matter until December 21 to allow time for the council to serve the documents on Bright and for her to read them.

It’s the second time the council has stumbled in the proceedings.”……

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/72795826/auckland-rates-protester-penny-bright-wins-another-day-in-court
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October 7, 2015 5:50pm
Reid

prove just who really is “The Real Man” Reid?

I wonder if it may play out like this Johnboy. I mean who knows. We know at least one of them would enjoy that, but would it solve the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xVk9nqmQGc
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October 7, 2015 5:53pm
Griff

ie equal in value before God, but at the same time assigned different roles, different responsibilities, etc.

😆
equal but not equal.
yeah right.
dont you mean .
NOT EQUAL
In the realm of man… the real world ever one actually lives in not some mythical place yet found or that we even have proof of.
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October 7, 2015 5:54pm
Rufus

Griff

where did Jesus promote slavery/rape/discriminating against children and jews? Where did Paul or the apostles?

“imposed by Christendom” – riiiiiiiight. Where in the bible Griff?

I suggest PEOPLE did this. Despite Jesus’ command to love one another. Despite Paul’s teaching “all are equal”.

Druids offered human sacrifices to placate their gods. Is this your “western” “culture” that treated men and women equally?

If only the barbaric druids (you realise “english” is from “angles” who came later, much later?) had continued their ritualistic human sacrifices and animistic religious practices, then we’d all now love gays and promote feminism?

Have another toke Griff.

So,

1. how did Christians destroy “western” “culture” that preceded it?

2. What was this “western” culture, and what made it “western”?

Barbarians ritually sacrificing each other vs. the most amazing art, music, literature inspired by belief in the Christian God.

Your hatred for all things Christian is blinding you.
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October 7, 2015 5:57pm
SPC

Slavery was widespread in Christendom, it was a mainstay of the feudal order with the serfs.
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October 7, 2015 5:58pm
nasska

…..”equal in value before God, but at the same time assigned different roles, different responsibilities, etc.”……

That’s the way they kept everyone in their place for about fifteen centuries Griff.

They blathered on about the next world to prevent revolution in this one.
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October 7, 2015 6:00pm
Rufus

SPC – Griff – just because you can’t understand something doesn’t make it wrong.

“Equal but different” is a very simple concept, and works very well when applied by people who love each other and look out for the best of others.

Just because you can’t understand that, or have never experienced that, doesn’t mean it isn’t a valid viewpoint, or logical , or reasonable.

You see something you simply cannot relate to and snort in derision.
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October 7, 2015 6:00pm
SPC

Rufus, if it had been practised by those who opposed the rape of married women, allowed women to own property in their own right and who regarded women as their political and religious equal in the society and church – the terminology would not have come into contempt.
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October 7, 2015 6:06pm
Johnboy

“They blathered on about the next world to prevent revolution in this one.”

Didn’t work in France for a time, a cradle of Catholicisim, still the French buggers still drive tractor loads of manure up to the parliament and dump it…..Vive La Revolution I say!

Shane Ardern was as close as we ever got! 🙂
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October 7, 2015 6:08pm
Lucia Maria

I don’t know about this being equal to men, for as a Catholic I believe women are superior to men. After all, women were made last in the order of creation, and were also not made from dust, as Adam was, but from his rib. We also participate in the creation of new souls. So, very, clearly superior.

I only have to look at this lot (of men) in GD for confirmation.
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October 7, 2015 6:09pm
Griff

Druids offered human sacrifices to placate their gods. Is this your “western” “culture” that treated men and women equally?

Did they?
Nope that has absolutely no provable content.
Its a church imposed myth used to discredit and destroy a culture same as with the myths they used to destroy witches

We dont know
Who they were.
What they believed.
What they worshiped.
How they worshiped.
Their organization structure.
All we have is a name,piles of quartz stones and a few whispered places .
Priest of my ancestors =druid
That is it. All else to be known about the beliefs of druids my forbears priest hood was systematically destroyed by Christendom
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October 7, 2015 6:09pm
Johnboy

“We also participate in the creation of new souls.”

Unfortunately not if you keep your legs closed (as Mary did) any more Lucia. 🙂
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October 7, 2015 6:12pm
Reid

I only have to look at this lot (of men) in GD for confirmation.

If we’re inferior Lucia how come our sex managed to “suppress” your sex for every single generation since Adam until the last few?

(Not that we have, that’s the evil planted lie that ~~wrecks the family~~ is feminism, but you’re the one who wants to talk about it.)
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October 7, 2015 6:15pm
nasska

All the church of Rome did for over a millennium was coat tail the rulers of various countries & use their versions of the crap written in the Bible to preserve a compliant society. The Kings & noblemen exploited the peasants & offered the craven priests wealth & protection in payment for their services.

Christianity was so far divorced from the teachings of Christ that God himself wouldn’t have recognised the connection.
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October 7, 2015 6:15pm
SPC

Reid, if the Americans had wanted to take out IS they would have used the Kurdish area in Syria as a base for their trained soldiers to move on Raqqa from the north – rather than send them to Aleppo to “smuggle arms” to al Nusra.

The Turks and Saudis are very displeased. NATO is claiming that Russian intrusion into Turkey airspace is deliberate – because Erdogan says so and wants NATO to warn the Russians off destroying his pet project to impose an Islamist regime on Syria.
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October 7, 2015 6:17pm
Reid

Reid, if the Americans had wanted to take out IS they would have…

SPC I’m less interested in knowing how they would have done it, than I am in knowing WHY they didn’t even try to.

Aren’t you?

The Turks and Saudi’s are actually very pleased, in my read. Where do you think ISIS (a) gets [some of] its bases and nurture from? (A: the former) and (b) its personnel, funding from? (A: the latter).

But the big question which all of you should be asking yourselves is the first one I raised.

Why haven’t the US even tried to kill em?

Why is that?

Cos clearly, they haven’t been, have they.

So why?

Why?
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October 7, 2015 6:22pm
Griff

Don’t forget nasska
They refused to allow the bible to be translated into a language the commoner could understand so as to keep him ignorant about what they actually were peddling and its difference from what Jesus said.
This only broke down when we invented printing.
Even then they attempted to stop bibles that anyone could access being dissimulated .

Those beautiful churches were a symbol of oppression of the common man.
The serfs paid in blood so the elites could worship in a huge cathedral.
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October 7, 2015 6:23pm
Dave_1924

For some reason reporting on the assault on Paul Henry trial is buried in the ENTERTAINMENT section……. hmmmm… ok kind of I suppose I would have thought politics section would have been better as after all it was a Leftie Protest mob to had a crack at Henry…. anyway I hope the guy gets a nice custodial sentence for attacking Henry…..

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11525218
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October 7, 2015 6:24pm
Lucia Maria

Reid,

The short answer is Original Sin. Though, I’m guessing as to what you mean by “suppress” here.

Also, the Middle Ages, prior to the rediscovery of Roman Law, was a great time to be a woman. More on that here: Authentic Feminism in History.

Feminism is not a lie, Reid. It’s an attempt to rebalance the sexes, but ineffectively because it dismisses God.
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October 7, 2015 6:30pm
Reid

Feminism is not a lie, Reid.

Yes it is.

It’s a social engineering movement designed to weaken and destroy the family unit. It disguises itself as standing for human rights but it does nothing of the sort.

Look and observe.

As it’s taken hold in Western society, the only societies where it’s been promulgated, what has happened to us in terms of our family units?

What does the Bible say about husbands and wives?

You know, many here don’t, but you do, I know.

And everything it teaches goes against that, doesn’t it.

Don’t care really to debate the details Lucia for it bores me, everything’s out there to educate yourself if you care to.

Just because your ears have been tickled, doesn’t mean you should go along with the tickling.

Over and out, on this topic.
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October 7, 2015 6:40pm
SPC

Reid, not much of a mystery.

Turkey and Saudi Arabia want an Islamist regime change in Syria.

The Americans fought for a democratic regime change in Iraq and must pay lip service to that. Thus they will help re-train the Iraqi army – but their capability to re-take the north is some time away. They leave the Shia militias and Iranian advisors as the only game in town – but that leaves the north in resistance to those who would sack their urban centres. Stalemate.

As they can agree on the strategic worth of a Syrian regime that is not in bed with Hizbollah and Iran the Americans are not fussed whether the regime in Damascus is democratic or not. Thus they are part of a tacit agreement with their Sunni allies to enable IS to remain to support for their inbedded ally Al Nusra (the main rebel fighting force) to ensure the defeat the Assad regime.

How committed the Americans are to fulfilling this agreement is hard to say, as Russian activity now gives the Americans an excuse for failure.
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October 7, 2015 6:46pm
Viking2

Become a beef farmer – This FT piece on China’s need for the land equivalent of Great Britain to produce enough meat to feed China’s growing middle classes is a cheering one for New Zealand sheep and beef farmers.

It certainly explains Shanghai Maling’s keenness to lock in New Zealand supplies through its deal with Silver Fern Farms.

The average Chinese eats about 57kg of meat a year, up by almost a quarter from 2003, when consumption totalled 46kg. This is expected to rise to 74kg in the next decade, pushing up grains and soyabean demand by 94m tonnes for livestock from the current overall usage of 650m tonnes.

This increase, in turn, will mean that an additional 15-20m hectares of agricultural land will be needed, according to the corporate finance arm of auditors PwC. The shift in diets “will place enormous burdens on an already challenged domestic food system and have significant ramifications on international trade in agriculture”, said Richard Ferguson, PwC adviser and author of the report “China’s agricultural challenges”.

Constraints of land and water availability will mean that the country will increasingly rely on imports or look to secure land overseas for agricultural production — a phenomenon that is already happening.
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October 7, 2015 6:46pm
nasska

….”China’s growing middle classes is a cheering one for New Zealand sheep and beef farmers.”…..

Our turn has come V2! 🙂
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October 7, 2015 6:50pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/shdlb72ldenumh7/Wankstain%2012%209%2014.jpg?dl=0
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October 7, 2015 6:59pm
renderer

Penny lives to fight another day. Her case has been deferred until 21 December
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October 7, 2015 6:59pm
SPC

Viking2, yes quite so. And the Chinese do like avoiding the global market and ensuring supply from long term contracts or by up of production capability.

What they could do is stifle meat price pay outs to local farmers and diminish local farm values and then help bankers by buying up the farms of those struggling to pay the mortgage.
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October 7, 2015 7:02pm
stigie

Fuck me, you have to hand it to Penny for surviving this. DG would benefit on all fronts being with this woman…?
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October 7, 2015 7:07pm
SPC

Put it this way, by the time tariffs reduce to the TPP lows (over decades) I would not be surprised to see local ownership of farmland reduce to 50%.
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October 7, 2015 7:08pm
renderer

Stuff reports

In court on Wednesday the council’s legal team was unable to produce sufficient evidence that the large bundle of documents had been sent to her.

“You’re handing her a cast iron appeal point if I proceed,” Judge Bouchier told council lawyer James Hassall.

“Regrettably I feel, despite having read the file and being all set to rock and roll on it, I feel I will have to adjourn the matter.”

Bright said she had no recollection of receiving the documents, despite the council claiming it had sent them.

“This is what this is all about, Auckland Council doing things in a proper way, and quite frankly if they did things in a proper way… we wouldn’t be here today,” Bright said

God forbid is there no end to this. She will dine out on this for a month
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October 7, 2015 7:08pm
AgentBallSack

Paul Henry would make a good Mayor of Auckland. And it would piss off a thousand screaming lefties too. Martyn Bradbury might even contemplate suicide.
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October 7, 2015 7:10pm
AgentBallSack

Penny should charge ACC for wasting her time. I would think 100k a day is pretty fair recompense for an experienced activist of her caliber.
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October 7, 2015 7:14pm
Reid

The Americans fought for a democratic regime change in Iraq and must pay lip service to that.

The US went into Iraq not because of 911 but because the Israeli political influence in the US political anatomy required them to spend their own blood and treasure to destroy Israel’s Public Enemy #2.

That’s why Bush, acting on orders, disbanded the Iraqi army which is the biggest single action which caused Iraq to become what we see today, which is a work in progress.

In 2003 just after the invasion, Israel launched a major still-ongoing diplomatic offensive to become mates with the Kurds.

The plan is to split, eventually, Iraq into three: Sunni, Shi’ite and Kurd. The Kurd homelands sit across the major Iraq oilfields.

Meanwhile, in Afghanistan, the US got the poppy production once again blooming, when the Taliban had almost eliminated it entirely. This gives it trillions for its black budget, because the Western intel agencies control the global drug trade. Not to mention the massive mineral wealth in Afghanistan which will all go to Western corporations, if all goes to plan.

The planned dis-integration of Iraq therefore put millions of well-trained amoral men into the global merc trade. These were the seed which formed ISIS, which proceeded on a side operation to take out Libya, because Ghaddafi had been naughty, in demanding everyone who wanted Libya’s oil pay in African gold dinars, which the West could not tolerate, since they didn’t have any gold, because they’d raided the vaults long ago and they couldn’t afford this new tactic which was a very good idea, to spread to the other ME oil producing states. Thus Libya played out, ending with the former Head of State being homosexually raped and shot, on YouTube.

This is how the US really does truly in fact play the game SPC.

Let’s not mention Syria. Or shall we.

In the early days of the Syrian conflict we heard the ISIS thugs, this new mysterious organisation that had sprung up out of the desert wilderness, committing atrocity after atrocity.

For Israel is now after its public enemy #1: Iran.

But to get at her, first she has to take out Syria. There’s not only the Greater Israel plan at stake, there’s riches as well. If Syria comes under Western control, they can build a pipeline through Turkey that checkmates the monopoly Russian supply of natural gas to Europe. That’s critical in winter, as you appreciate, people die if they don’t it. Gasprom is a very important geopolitical entity and well worth carefully understanding.

So that’s a 100,000 foot view of only a few of the various games currently being played SPC. Democracy has nothing to do with it and never, ever has. The evil machinations I just described BTW are nothing by comparison to what’s happened in history, in famous events that had causes and dynamics that the accepted histories have never touched on.

Even if you don’t at the end of the day once you’ve read that data you don’t buy it, it’s still very worthwhile acquainting yourself with it, it adds dimensions to anyone interested in geopolitical analysis, historic or present, that you’ll never see unless you have it in mind.
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October 7, 2015 7:16pm
AgentBallSack

Reid, as you described – straight out of Mission Earth decalogy by L Ron. Apart from the fact he was a drug addled hypocritical filthy old lecher he knew human weakness well.
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October 7, 2015 7:19pm
AgentBallSack

Actually, as a Wellington resident and perhaps partly from the effects of ambrosia, I think Penny does a (real?) service for Aucklanders… She keeps rates and the raises constantly in the public spotlight, curbing councils desire to want to add more in case that freaking pain in the ass Penny Bright gets even more media oxygen.
I bet she annoys Len Brown. For that she should get some respect. While I may be on polar opposite sides of the political spectrum from her I can respect what she does, even if I think it is misguided.

So with all that said,
Penny will you marry me?
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October 7, 2015 7:25pm
Reid

Reid, as you described – straight out of Mission Earth decalogy by L Ron.

What post ABS? I know nothing of his work.
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October 7, 2015 7:27pm
nasska

Ballsack…..seek help!!! 🙂
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October 7, 2015 7:31pm
AgentBallSack

A precis:

The books are written as the confessions of Soltan Gris, an agent of the Coordinated Information Apparatus of the Voltar Confederacy, as an exposé. Each book begins with a disclaimer from Lord Invay, the head Censor, denying the very existence of the planet Earth itself and denouncing the story as rankest fiction, despite the inclusion of characters who are real and known public figures in the novel’s fictional world, such as Jettero Heller and the Countess Krak.

The Voltar Confederacy wishes to conquer the planet Earth, which they regard as an important potential base on the main route of their planned invasion of the galactic centre. The conquest of Earth is scheduled for over 100 years in the future, but the Grand Council of Voltar becomes convinced that it must send a mission to prevent Earth from destroying itself through pollution and possibly war, so as not to disrupt the future timetable of conquest. The mission is assigned to Fleet Combat Engineer Jettero Heller, a character of perfection and incorruptibility. Soon after reaching Earth, he heads to New York City. He investigates why Earth is self-destructing, unaware that he is being tracked and that factions on Voltar want his mission to fail.

Unknown to Heller, Earth is also the base for a secret plan put into action by the insane, diabolically evil Lombar Hisst, the overall commander of the Apparatus, to seize the throne of the Empire of Voltar for himself. Hisst has been importing illegal narcotic drugs from Earth and using them to enslave the entire population of aristocratic heads of government on Voltar. By turning the entire government into drug addicts, Hisst plans to take control of the Empire for himself. Because of Earth’s role as a supplier of drugs, Hisst decides that Heller’s mission to save the planet must not succeed.

Lombar Hisst assigns a cowardly, sadistic, greedy stooge named Soltan Gris to supervise the mission to Earth, in order to sabotage it and destroy Jettero Heller. The majority of the story is told from Gris’ point of view, with an emphasis on the comical situations Gris ends up in as he tries to stop Heller. Over the course of the novel, Gris finds himself in possession of twelve tons of pure gold, which he tries to launder through a Swiss bank account in order to keep it all for himself; he becomes a prisoner of two man-hating lesbians (who end up marrying Gris after he rapes them and thereby “cures” them of their lesbianism, but not before various ingenious tortures are inflicted on him, one of which involve a cheese grater and chili powder); he repeatedly finds himself losing large amounts of money, becoming broke, and having to concoct wild schemes to save himself from his creditors; he has an affair with a young nymphomaniac teenage girl whom he cannot escape; he hires a hit man to kill Heller’s fiancé, only to stumble through the affair and end up being a target for the hit man himself; he embarks on a long cruise through the Mediterranean (mirroring Hubbard’s own voyages through the area in the 1970s); and finally, Gris becomes the target after Heller realizes that he is behind the operation to disrupt his mission.

Heller’s investigations of Earth soon reveal to him that the entire planet is in the grip of a vast organized corporate conspiracy headed by the Rockecenter corporation and its head, Delbert John Rockecenter (the similarity to “John D. Rockefeller” is one of many blatant puns and references included in the series by Hubbard). Rockecenter is the head of a vast oil-producing corporation that keeps the population of Earth under control by using drugs and rock and roll music to keep the population sedate. (Rock music is used in the novel to spread sexual deviancy, especially homosexuality, among the population of Earth.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Earth_(novel)
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October 7, 2015 7:32pm
AgentBallSack

nasska what can I say…I like a girl that can take a good truncheoning
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October 7, 2015 7:33pm
Griff

Ball sack you are one sick puppy.
This could be your future wife
note the sound
http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/video-hysterical-scenes-during-arrest-of-occupy-protestor-penny-bright-2012012612#axzz3npBKmmQc
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October 7, 2015 7:35pm
Griff

Giday d4j hows the lingering smell of toe jam treating you this fine evening?
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October 7, 2015 7:39pm
SPC

Reid, a lot of misconceptions there, too many to respond to.

I will focus on two.

Why do you ignore the issue of Iraqi oil? You claim it is the reason for Libya. Americans wanted the oil back on stream but their condition was a beneficiary regime installed first – via democratic elections.

If the plan was Kurdish independence, why did the Iraq regime installed not have a federal structure to facilitate three self governing regions. And why have the Americans and others left Kurds so poorly armed and denied them the right to sell oil?
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October 7, 2015 7:43pm
AgentBallSack

Griff note the word hysteria present in the title? Women are commonly known to suffer from this tragic malady. Treatments for the afflicted include electric shock, cold water jets and vibrating stimulation of known trouble areas.
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October 7, 2015 7:47pm
starboard

‘ello fags..great to be back in nil ziland , land of the long brown cloud
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October 7, 2015 7:48pm
Reid

Why do you ignore the issue of Iraqi oil? You claim it is the reason for Libya.

I stopped reading there SPC since you thereby prove you have completely, totally, utterly missed every single word I wrote and point I made.

Suggest you start again at Go, but don’t collect $200.
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October 7, 2015 7:50pm
AgentBallSack

Hey starboard good to see you, you run into lprent or anyone else famous while you were away?
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October 7, 2015 7:52pm
stigie

No fags on here Starbored, you would have to head back to Thailand if you want to indulge ole chap…?
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October 7, 2015 7:53pm
nasska

Hickory dickory dock,
Starboard’s princess has a big cock,
He said: “It was news to me,
When I saw her pee,
Now she’s on plane back to Bangkok”.
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October 7, 2015 7:58pm
stigie

Brilliant Dennis.
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October 7, 2015 8:00pm
starboard

I may have seen Iprent Sack hanging around a toilet cubicle in lower Sukhumvit..not sure ,I did see a Hulun Clarlk look a like and Im sure I saw Chris Carter poofing around but apart from them..no one of note.
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October 7, 2015 8:00pm
Griff

vibrating stimulation of known trouble areas.

The first time I stumbled across that fact was a revelation.
They really did get hysterical woman off in a clinical setting.
Even sold devices to doctors for the purpose.
I was born to late.
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October 7, 2015 8:01pm
nasska

What’s the going hourly rate for an Lynn Prentice lookalike in Thailand starboard? 🙂
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October 7, 2015 8:02pm
starboard

50 baht Nasska..or about 2 bucks 50 nz..and that be a long time not short time..
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October 7, 2015 8:07pm
Reid

Im sure I saw Chris Carter poofing around but apart from them..no one of note.

You didn’t see Peter getting turned around at Immigration then?
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October 7, 2015 8:07pm
Griff

yip thanks starboard .
Confirms what we all have guessed
The only way you would know that is if you had availed yourself of the trade .
ewwwwwwwww lady boy bits.
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October 7, 2015 8:09pm
nasska

….”about 2 bucks 50 nz”…..

That much! Lynn might want to consider a career change. 🙂
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October 7, 2015 8:10pm
starboard

I think Peter would need to head to Cambodia..he’s that fucking ugly, even the Thais have standards.
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October 7, 2015 8:10pm
stigie

Is it dark yet ? the deviants dont appear in Hagley Park until it gets dark !~
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October 7, 2015 8:10pm
starboard

Of course I did Griff..I told you that many times over the past few weeks. Are you getting aroused ? Yes, you are aren’t you, you filthy old codger..eeewwwwww
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October 7, 2015 8:13pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Dear men,

(especially you upper middle-class and rich bods),

No need to feel shame about your condition..
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/history-of-the-hysterical-man-43321905/?no-ist=&page=1
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October 7, 2015 8:15pm
Reid

he’s that fucking ugly

That’s probably why Hulun cried at the wedding SB.

It’s all falling into place…
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October 7, 2015 8:17pm
starboard

Im over Hagley Park. Hasn’t been the same since MM started offering bareback at half price.
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October 7, 2015 8:17pm
Griff

shit thank god Maggy I get off being firmly in the only just solvent chattering classes.
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October 7, 2015 8:18pm
stigie

I dont know whether men with dementia can understand that Maggy !~
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October 7, 2015 8:18pm
nasska

That’s interesting Maggy. I wonder how that excuse would work with SWMBO.

I can’t quite get my head around the likely reply if I said, “not tonight dear….I’ve got a touch of the vapours”. 🙂
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October 7, 2015 8:19pm
stigie

“That’s probably why Hulun cried at the wedding SB”.

Well, i’m wrong again, and i thought it was having to be married why she sobbed around her lesbian friends…?
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October 7, 2015 8:28pm
AgentBallSack

Theyre basically describing hipsters aren’t they…

During and after the Napoleonic period, and especially in Britain, there was a change in how nervous disorders in men were seen. They went from being signs of refinement and civilization to signs of weak and unmanly behavior — and, a generation later, as signs of physical and biological degeneration
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October 7, 2015 8:31pm
Left Right and Centre

General TV. Story on TV3 is such a huge improvement over Campbell Live.

Last night they had a couple of haggard dodgy looking white old witchy munter cackling kiwi sisters claiming they’d been poisoned by a helicopter dropping 10/80 while having a picnic or something in some forest. Could they be protesters cooking up a plot of publicity ? They are not known to have links to any protest groups. Well, I for one feel assured that that must be true and accurate then. They didn’t see any cones or warning notices (really ?). They’ve now got all of these ‘health problems’ (yeah, like what exactly – nothing that’s verified by medical science of course – or verifiable – of course). And then wait for it *ACC claim* . . . of **course**. Eye-rolling stuff.

Now hang on, these are what – pellets of 10/80 dropped on the ground from the air ? And that does what exactly ? Wouldn’t one have to land in your food as you take a bite without noticing ? Geez – you can see how much it behooves them to give any kind of fair journalistic assessment of the situation – have they had medical tests ? Don’t bother to show any of the warning notices etc or maps or the affected areas or give a really informative complete picture. Just show what you want to show mate. Just add the bare minimum of balance for ‘journalistic credibility’. If it was a tin it would say guaranteed to contain minimum 25% lip service to impartiality and detachment. Careful – that’s a bit too much even-handedness – there’s 15-20 seconds of it we can safely cut out – yeah, that’s better. It’s all done in the best possible taste. That rubbish made it to about four minutes maybe ? Wow – I don’t think I could’ve handled a lot more than that. Two-three minutes, sure. Four or five ? Can their KFC swilling target audience think about the same thing for up to five minutes ?

I think Duncan Garner is the embodiment of the old Truth paper. If the print could’ve talked – it would sound like him. Why do I watch ? Maybe I’m a content-is half-not full -of -shit kind of bloke. Just turn the two talking clown head’s sound off until the next item starts. I couldn’t tell you one thing the woman has ever said – don’t know her name – I know she’s always going to have a stupid look fixed on her face like chewing gum stuck in hair – and that’s it.

On the upside – Ingrid the weather reader is one hot tamale. After she’s finished I have to go online and check the weather forecast – that’s the only downside.
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October 8, 2015 6:02am
Manolo

The Russians exercise their (fire) power: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3263555/Russia-launches-CRUISE-MISSILES-ISIS-warships-900-miles-away-Syrian-ground-troops-launch-major-offensive-supported-Putin-s-bombers.html

Russian warships joined the conflict in Syria with a volley of cruise missile attacks on Islamic State as Syrian government troops launched a major ground offensive supported by Moscow air strikes.

Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu told Vladimir Putin in televised remarks that four ships based 900 miles away in the Caspian Sea had launched 26 missiles – and claimed they would strike 11 ISIS targets.
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October 8, 2015 6:20am
Viking2

MAJOR WIN FOR PRIVACY .

The student who brought down a data pact

an Austrian law student’s two-year battle against Facebook and mass US surveillance culminated on Wednesday in a landmark ruling that has rippled across the business world.

Max Schrems, a 28-year-old Facebook user finishing his PhD in law at Vienna University, took an interest in the subject of privacy while studying for a semester abroad at Santa Clara University in California.

The legal battle against mass US surveillance that he subsequently pursued resulted in what lawyers called a “bombshell” ruling knocking down a data transfer framework between the European Union and the United States used by over 4000 companies such as Google, Facebook and IBM.

“Max Schrems and Edward Snowden. What a combination. Two young men who have made indelible impacts on the world of data protection,” wrote Stewart Room, a partner at PwC.

============================================
No doubt there will be more to play and the Yanks spies will fund all sorts of litigation.
Essentially now though data transfer to USA based servers is outlawed from the European Union.

Expect others to follow as well.

That won’t stop the yanks from trying at all.

Just as they ignored our Courts in removing the information that was taken in the Dotcom raids and copied to the States.

Just saying thay ain’t to be trusted and we are trusting them with TPP. (which does have huge benefits for us but tempered with distrust.)
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October 8, 2015 6:28am
Viking2

For those of you who can’t get enough Donald Trump in your lives, never fear: Now, there’s a program that lets you have him say anything you can think of.

“Say it With Trump” is a fun, customizable soundboard of Trump-isms that works by having users type in a message of their choosing and then reading that message out loud using various clips of the Donald’s speeches. It uses the program Clash.me, a tool currently in beta that allows users to create custom narrations of words and phrases.

See also: You can’t unsee this picture of Donald Trump with a man bun

Created by Phillip Pastore, who has uploaded more than 1,600 different words spoken by Trump (and promises to continue adding more), Say It With Trump is the hip, ironic way to order food, participate in phone conferences and propose to your long-time significant others.

While truly ridiculous phrases won’t always work — the tool is dependent on words Trump has actually said out loud in public — we found that it was still good for a laugh — or 12.

To get you started, here are links to presidential candidate Donald Trump saying strange things.

“All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

“My fellow Americans, ask not what your Trump can do for you, ask what you can do for your Trump.”

“Make America great again by electing Tom Brady as President.”

“I’m a little boy are you my mother?”

Happy Trumping, America.

https://clash.me/trump

==============================
Now that should give some of you something to do today while the rest of us work.
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October 8, 2015 6:55am
Scott Chris

Actually, as a Wellington resident and perhaps partly from the effects of ambrosia, I think Penny does a (real?) service for Aucklanders… She keeps rates and the raises constantly in the public spotlight, curbing councils desire to want to add more in case that freaking pain in the ass Penny Bright gets even more media oxygen.
I bet she annoys Len Brown.

That’s a reasonable point Ballsack. Also, I’ve often wondered why those who believe ‘tax is theft’ don’t see Penny in a more positive light.
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October 8, 2015 6:56am
Manolo

To see her in a positive light one needs to be totally blind.
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October 8, 2015 7:35am

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