General Debate 26 October 2015

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flipper

Try this for analysis….NZ v SA. Excellent!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11953484/South-Africa-18-New-Zealand-20-Five-aspects-that-underpinned-epic-All-Blacks-win.html
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October 26, 2015 8:02am
Longknives

All Black fans I’ve seen on Facebook are already bleating that the RWC Final will be “a Bloodbath”, “50 point win”, “a Massacre” etc
2011’s arrogance all over again?? Thank heavens Mr Joubert was there to bail them out on that occasion! It will be Mr Owens this time..
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October 26, 2015 8:10am
Scott Chris

Bruv and Longknives hero Stephen Jones finally sees the light:

No team in any sport is going to fail to take advantage of a superiority to turn it into a hegemony. New Zealand’s record is phenomenal and getting better. They are the reigning world champions, they have lost just three games since they won the title in 2011, an incredible fact.

“They wear their crown lightly but tightly. They have held off all-comers for so long, their defeats come like roundabouts on an endless desert highway. They are a shock.”

(unfortunately the original Telegraph article is pay-walled)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/73370502/rugby-world-cup-2015-all-blacks-win-over-harshest-critic-stephen-jones

He also makes a good point or two regarding the AB vs Bok semi:

Jones was far less complimentary in a separate article on the All Blacks’ 20-18 victory over the Springboks, claiming they reached the final due to their ability “to gloss over their own failings on the day, their own poor kicking and their deeply conservative approach.
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October 26, 2015 8:12am
flipper

Ahhh.. the pocket knife is back….. but still short on brains and bullshitting as always.
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October 26, 2015 8:17am
Nukuleka

Rodney Hide’s piece in The Herald sums up the confusion surrounding the whole flag change issue- and his conclusion about his own preferences (1st preference the current flag: second preference Red Peak) sums up just how confused the issue has become. His view that the sole person now driving the flag change is, of course, John Key is spot on- and despite Key’s continued personal popularity this is unlikely to secure a victory for him on this one.

As Hide says, anti-Key folk are in the main opposed to a flag change because John Key is promoting it. But half National supporters also don’t support it, according to the UMR poll. I’d guess that this 50% are the same National supporters who were dismayed when Key supported Sue Bradford’s ridiculous anti-smacking bill, when he showed deep hypocrisy by voting firstly against civil unions but then in favour of gay marriage, and when he demeaned himself and the office of PM by participating in trash talk on Hauraki Breakfast. But, like me, they will forgive Key his clay feet because they know he is the best man for the job at present and they don’t want to jeopardise the prospect of a 4th National led government. They don’t want to rock the boat.
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October 26, 2015 8:21am
Nostalgia-NZ

Stephen Jones must have been on the gin, his comments might be applicable to England but certainly not the ABs. To ‘gloss’ over so called failings etc on the day is bonkers, even if there were any failings is a team expected to highlight them? Poor chap he writes with the taste of crap in his mouth and the bile of pure envy in his throat.
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October 26, 2015 8:22am
Odakyu-sen

There’s no issue over the “flag change.”

1. Don’t get involved in fashionable re-branding exercises (NZ is not a company)
2. Don’t change simply to keep people happy (like in Canada)
3. Change when NZ is no longer a constitutional monarchy

Personally, I find the NZ flag boring and uninspiring, but it is the flag, and you have to respect that.

Why is it that NZ (unlike the US and Japan) is so willing to scrap aspects of its own culture. For example, the US retains its penny, and Japan its 1-yen aluminum coin. Why did NZ scrap its minor coins? (Okay, they were kind of useless, but they were still part of NZ culture.)

Can NZ not be proud of what it is, or are we coming back to that “cringe” (self-hating) factor that we touched upon yesterday?
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October 26, 2015 8:29am
mikenmild

Yes, we lost an irretrievable part of our heritage when we ditched the one- and two-cent coins. Actually, the rot started earlier, when we changed from the time-honoured pennies and shillings.
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October 26, 2015 8:42am
Kimbo

@ Odakyu-sen

Why is it that NZ (unlike the US and Japan) is so willing to scrap aspects of its own culture.

Because we are a much younger nation than an ancient and conservative culture like the Japanese – or even the US which had a period of over 150 years of colonisation and then a Revolutionary War of Independence over 50 years before the Treaty of Waitangi was even signed. Which is why, much to Longknives and big bruv’s chagrin our national representative rugby team is so much a part of our collective (but not unanimous!) aspirations and cultural identity. What do you think the chances are of the All Blacks ever changing their strip to, say, pink, if they got Batts their major sponsor?

But most of the distinctive culture comes from Maori, and the rest of our nation is still emerging from the late adolescent/teenage stage. IMHO.

For example, in any other nation Split Enz and the NZ third of Crowded House would have been discarded years ago as nothing but crap muzak, but unfortunately, courtesy of baby-boomers with crap taste and fond memories of teenage parties, they are Kiwi musical icons. And don’t get met started on those bloody Tolkien movies that attracts any number of anorak-wearing weirdos to our shores… 😉

Like Jamie Belich said, our history is compressed, and dynamic, and our institutions are still in a constant state of change compared to others

EDIT
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October 26, 2015 8:54am
Odakyu-sen

mikenmild,

I will make an exception for going over to a decimal (as opposed to an imperial) system of currency or measurements, but I understand and respect your sentiments.
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October 26, 2015 8:57am
Hugh Pavletich

IMPORTANT UPDATE … and from the (costly) urban planning disaster department … the Christchurch Central Blueprint …

… just posted … Georgina Stylianou of The Press reports …

Anchor project designations and large land blocks cause values to drop | Stuff.co.nz

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/73366472/anchor-project-designations-and-large-land-blocks-cause-values-to-drop

The value of central Christchurch property bought by the Crown for major recovery projects has dropped by more than $100 million, Government information has revealed.

An annual report into the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority’s (Cera) finances shows designating land for anchor projects – like the convention centre or metro sports facility – and merging multiple titles has caused the value of Crown-owned land to fall in the last financial year. … read more via hyperlink above …

… An earlier The Press report today by Will Harvie …

Christchurch’s 100-day blueprint took 67 days with only 20-odd days of design | Stuff.co.nz

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/73320478/christchurchs-100day-blueprint-took-67-days-with-only-20odd-days-of-design

… Pavletich (Paulson) comment on thread …

A utopian fantasy and a commercial disaster.

The results speak for themselves … as people and businesses bolted elsewhere.

Nicolae Ceausescu of Romania thought himself clever at this sort of thing too.

( Poor Nic … things got a bit rough at the end … bio / video documentary … http://www.biography.com/people/nicolae-ceausescu-38355 )

… Additional Pavletich (Paulson) comment on above The Press thread …

What Deputy Prime Minister & Finance Minister Bill English said a day following the May Budget in Christchurch … as reported by The Press …

The Government’s estimated contribution to the Christchurch rebuild jumps $1.1b in a year | Stuff.co.nz

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/68786324/the-governments-estimated-contribution-to-the-christchurch-rebuild-jumps-11b-in-a-year.html

… extracts …

… “One of the more useful things the Government can do is carefully but decisively exit its land ownership interests in the CBD because we are an odd sort of owner.

“It doesn’t follow commercial incentives and in my view we’ve probably kept the land price too high in the CBD and if we got out of it, it would ultimately find the right level a bit quicker.” …

… After the lunch he said feedback to him was that the land in the CBD was relatively expensive. …

… “But certainly we don’t intend to be a long term owner of significant land holdings in the CBD.”

Pavletich comment …The German Luftwaffe could not have done such a building and commercial demo job as the political and bureaucrat clowns directly responsible.

A recovery that in broad terms is estimated at this stage to cost some $46 billion, when it should have been in the order of $20 billion … around $26 billion more than necessary (roughly equivalent to 2 years + of dairy exports ) … for the reasons (and others) outlined by this writer back June 2011 …

OPINION: Hugh Pavletich accuses Christchurch City Council of blindness, blunders and chain dragging; calls for effective leadership, ‘open land’ policy and bendy zoning. Your view? | interest.co.nz

http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/53947/opinion-hugh-pavletich-accuses-christchurch-city-council-blindness-blunders-and-chain-

… Where is the political competence and leadership ? …
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October 26, 2015 9:03am
Chuck Bird

Whether it is a deterrent or not paedophile do not offend while in jail.

Three strikes: 96 offenders face final warning

Nearly 100 offenders have received final warnings under “three strikes” legislation in New Zealand courts but the jury is still out on the effectiveness of the legislation.

Ministry of Justice figures showed 967 offenders received first warnings under the legislation between January 1 and September 30 this year. The number of first warnings increased each year between 2010 and 2013, but dropped in 2014.
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October 26, 2015 9:10am
Kimbo

I really enjoyed that Aussie-Argentina semi-final. But Argentina needed to be ahead on the scoreboard. and have Aussie chasing them if their backline was going to score a try. And the Aussies sacked the one attacking line out from which the Pumas could have scored from a rolling maul.

And other than getting that penalty wrong from which (I think) Argentina narrowed the lead to 15-22, I thought Wayne Barnes had an excellent game. He sussed out early what was happening in the scrums. Best of all, he has a really good “feel” for the game. IMHO. Would have no problems with him reffing us in the final, even though they have given it to Owens.

Hardly surprising, most World Cup finals are really dour games, with that 2007 game a rather dire affair for all but the Saffers. Even our much-heralded win in 1987 was by playing clinical rather than expansive footie (the Kirk and Kirwan tries that have been endlessly replayed were not indicative of how most of the game went). About the best final ever for drama in the tussle, closeness on the scoreboard and both teams playing a 15-man game was the 1991 final – when Will Carling had a brain explosion and let David Campese rile him into discarding 3 years of tactical preparation, and the English tried to beat Australia at their own game. The final 12-10 score didn’t reflect the end-to-end nature of the play.

While we’ve got to make sure we have sufficient intensity and speed and consistency to the breakdown to negate Pocock et all (as we did in that 2011 semi-final – probably the All Blacks best game in the last 6 seasons), both teams will be using all the full length and width of the field, and it promises to be a champagne rugby occasion. May the best team win!

And Argentina to confirm their rise by winning third place – mainly because it will mean more to them than the Springboks
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October 26, 2015 9:11am
Inandout

Odakyu-sen 8.29: Gordon McLauchlan tried to identify the Kiwi psyche in ‘Passionless People’, and though he identifies at lot of our traits as a people, and in a sometimes humourous way, his views are coloured by his Left politics. I think he sums us Kiwis up in the best way when he says, “New Zealanders don’t give a stuff about anything too much.”; John Key take note with your flag change bullshit.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/culture/6742579/Gordon-McLauchlan-produces-Passionless-People-sequel
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October 26, 2015 9:23am
Hugh Pavletich

Sydney’s auction clearance rate crashes – MacroBusiness Australia … behind paywall …

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2015/10/sydneys-auction-clearance-rate-crashes/

Core Logic-RP Data released its auction market report yesterday, which posted a further deceleration in the preliminary national auction clearance rate driven by falls in both Melbourne and Sydney.

The preliminary national clearance rate was 66.6%, down from the 69.3% rate recorded last weekend, according to Core Logic-RP Data: … read more via hyperlink above …

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Weekend-market-summary-week-ending-2015-October-25.pdf
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October 26, 2015 9:23am
Scott Chris

Hardly surprising, most World Cup finals are really dour games

I pray that that mould gets broken. I can’t see any logic behind because if dour rugby was consistently winning rugby then you’d find that is what most successful sides would practice, and the finest example of a successful side in recent years, the All Blacks, hasn’t played dour rugby.

I just hope Hansen can instill the mind-frame that fear of losing (which could easily have cost us in 2011) is trumped by faith in your own ability.
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October 26, 2015 9:30am
Manolo

stephieboy disagrees violently: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20151025/us-ap-poll-gop-2016-27a80beeda.html

Republican voters view Donald Trump as their strongest general election candidate, according to an Associated Press-GfK poll that highlights the sharp contrast between the party’s voters and its top professionals regarding the billionaire businessman’s ultimate political strength.
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October 26, 2015 9:38am
Colville

Argentina needed a SBW/Nonu type player to take it into contact midfield and stay upright and unload, the Aussies just had to much time to organize the defense and keep them out.

But without that stupid intercept try in the first minute (?) it may have been a very different game.
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October 26, 2015 9:39am
Scott Chris

For example, in any other nation Split Enz and the NZ third of Crowded House would have been discarded years ago as nothing but crap muzak

I suffer more cultural cringe with regard to the Flying Nun naive musician phenomenon. Can’t sing can’t play. Split Enz on the other hand deserves far more credit than you seem willing to give imo.

And don’t get met started on those bloody Tolkien movies

Jackson movies. And yeah, he murdered Tolkein.
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October 26, 2015 9:42am
Manolo

@Colville: TAB had money for jam: $3.00 for Wallabies 13+. Some of us are very happy with the result! 🙂
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October 26, 2015 9:46am
mikenmild

I don’t really count the LOTR as ‘New Zealand’ movies as such. They are international movies using New Zealand scenery. We have a thriving cinema here that is about much more than Peter Jackson epics.
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October 26, 2015 9:47am
mandk

@ mikenmild

What about the production, the direction, the sfx and post-production? All largely kiwi.

It’s a slight on your part to dismiss them.
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October 26, 2015 9:56am
Kimbo

@ Scott Chris

Split Enz on the other hand deserves far more credit than you seem willing to give imo.

Put it this way – musically they weren’t the Beatles, yet every Kiwi of a certain age seems to have an “I remember watching them on the ‘Ed Sullivan TV Show'” consciousness about them.

@ mikenmild

We have a thriving cinema here that is about much more than Peter Jackson epics.

Fair call. But just as Jaws and that crap Star Wars cowboy movie with the wooden dialogue killed off ‘New Hollywood’ in the mid 1970s, and bequeathed us that rancid cultural offering, the blockbuster, so it seems Jackson’s behemoths are in danger of swallowing up the landscape like Godzilla devouring Tokyo.

Sorry, I ain’t a Jackson fan. Is an ok director, but as someone once noted about another over-rated Kiwi director: “yes, Vincent Ward’s films have stunning and memorable shots…but so do beer ads”.

But if you count Jackson’s offerings as commercial ventures that bring wealth and reflected commercial value to NZ (and good on John key for brokering that deal – anyone noticed tourist numbers are up, BTW, and made the connection?) then they are great business. Like that adopted-Kiwi James Cameron and his silly CGI blue Pocahontas silliness
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October 26, 2015 9:56am
Kimbo

@ mandk

@ mikenmild

What about the production, the direction, the sfx and post-production? All largely kiwi.

It’s a slight on your part to dismiss them.

I’ll have a nibble on this.

I think what mikenmild is saying is, despite all the “wonderful Kiwi ingenuity of Weta Workshops” – and there is and good on ’em and everyone else who has contributed to making the NZ film industry what it is – it is essentially a generic international offering that could have been made anywhere. Yes, I know about the scenary, but if you shot in Iceland, California and Farofistan, you would get the same shots.

However, other than Once were Warriors, Whale Rider and Boy, what are the successful NZ films of the last generation that reflect who we are? Like Strictly Ballroom, Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, and The Castle did for Aussie.

Yeah, nothing wrong with making money, but film is a form of art, so you may as well make art that is good…and big budgets aside, are Jackson’s movies really that good? If it wasn’t made in NZ, would Kiwis rave about LOTR and the Hobbits as if it is part of us and our cultural identity? I don’t think so…
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October 26, 2015 10:09am
Hugh Pavletich

Driverless cars … Alister Heath … UK Telegraph

Driverless cars will be a boon for economies … Alister Heath … UK Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11952076/Driverless-cars-will-be-a-boon-for-economies.html

This article mostly focuses on the insurance liability issues around driverless cars, but makes this passing remark

“ Driverless cars will destroy high-speed rail, usher in a new golden age for individual transportation and undermine cities by encouraging longer commutes.”

There’s scope for a sociological study into driverless cars and urban density … If you can “sit back and relax” and check your emails, read the paper (on line or on paper), even catch up on sleep while your car takes care of the commute, why live in a congested, overpriced city?
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October 26, 2015 10:12am
stephieboy

I don’t think we suffer a cultural cringe as the following artists demonstrate most of whom give our country a distinctive voice and image ,

http://www.webbs.co.nz/department/important-paintings-and-contemporary-art

Not to speak of our writers like , Katherine Mansfielld ,Janet Frame , Frank Sargesson , Ronold Hugh Morrison,Robin Hyde ,Maurice Gee , Carl Stead etc etc

I think Peter Jackson ,apart from Heavanly Creatures, is more a reflection of popular culture much like Split Enz ,Neil Finn etc, but this is not to diminish the later’s considerable talents.
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October 26, 2015 10:18am
mikenmild

mandk
Kimbo is pretty much right, and I don’t mean to slight any aspect of Kiwi cinematographic excellence.
But to me, a ‘New Zealand’ film needs to tell a distinctly New Zealand story. We have had some great films do exactly that.Apart from those that Kimbo mentioned, I would add Heavenly Creatures, In My Father’s Den, and The World’s Fastest Indian as really good ‘New Zealand’ films.
LOTR, the Narnia films, and others such as Bridge to Terabithia are all wonderful achievements for the industry, but there is, I think, a special place for our very own stories.
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October 26, 2015 10:19am
wf

I enjoyed the Lord of the Rings STORIES. So, apparently did a lot of other people.
I don’t go to movies for the ART – for me film-making is a technical exercise – but I do expect them to appropriately visual.

A good story is a good story if well told.
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October 26, 2015 10:22am
Southern Raider

Once again sensationalist headlines from NZ media which aims to bias the populous opinions.

They have a headline along the lines of “Palestinian girl killed by Israeli forces”. You have to read the article to work out the “girl” was actually 17 and she ran at soldiers trying to stab them.
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October 26, 2015 10:23am
notrotsky

I see Morrisey Breen is posting here as longknive, one of his multitude of sockpupppets – what a sad individual he is.
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October 26, 2015 10:24am
Reid

Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss the Keiser Report theory of quantum financial fraud: an odd world, formed by a fabric of toxic derivatives, where wealth does not take form until it has been stolen from a pension fund via particles of sub-debt existing in hundreds of tranches of CDOs simultaneously.

The CDO returns…

https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/319577-episode-max-keiser-827/
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October 26, 2015 10:24am
Huevon

Best book a trip to Europe soon if you want to see it before it is gone forever…

Photos of migrant horde streaming into Western Europe
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3289031/The-long-march-Stunning-pictures-thousands-migrants-brave-mud-rain-days-bid-Balkans-western-Europe.html
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October 26, 2015 10:25am
G152

I see the puritans (having tried to ban smoking, drinking and enjoying life)
are now claiming that sausages, bacon and ham are triggers
for cancer and are as potent as smoking and drinking.
Oh, and the eating of red meat is also as bad as asbestos…

Life causes cancer.
Not a lot we can do except get checkups every year and hopefully catch it in time
so it can be cured
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October 26, 2015 10:26am
Manolo

Longknives unmasked by nostalin?
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October 26, 2015 10:28am
igm

What is happening to the fat felon from Germany? Is he preparing a welcome to his Muslim friends, is he in a US pen, or maybe still in NZ hoping for a change of Government. He must have some assurances going by the numbers of cars and people calling at his bunker! It is still easy to do rego checks, and maybe some are very interesting.
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October 26, 2015 10:29am
Manolo

@Huevon: and some foolish bleeding heart Europeans are opening the doors to these mob and causing their own societal destruction. Mamma Merkel has failed Germany (and the world).
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October 26, 2015 10:31am
Kimbo

@ wf

I enjoyed the Lord of the Rings STORIES. So, apparently did a lot of other people.
I don’t go to movies for the ART – for me film-making is a technical exercise – but I do expect them to appropriately visual.

A good story is a good story if well told.

Yes, fair enough, although separating “art” and “story” is a false dichotomy. Art is not just the Mona Lisa or Citizen Kane. Most of the time it is mundane and enjoyed by all, not just the poseurs.

Also, all genres have their particular technical exercises (literary, brush, or cinematic) that deliver the final product, and all in some way tell a story.

That you enjoyed LOTR is fine, and good on you. But I look at it and think, “yeah, well, ok. But there is nothing distinctly New Zealand there that I couldn’t find anywhere else”. Which is ok if that is what it is, and there is no compulsion for any New Zealand artist to fulfill some obligatory local content quota.

But even though the budget is huge, it isn’t, from that perspective a distinctly New Zealand story/piece of art that reflects or tells a story of who we are. Put it this way – Comalco turns Australian bauxite into aluminum courtesy of NZ hydro electric power, and then ships it to Japan. Yet Kiwis don’t proudly travel the world wondering if the aluminum joinery in the hotel or house where they are staying was made back in NZ.

So why all the fuss about a generic movie that could have been made in a couple of dozen or more countries?
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October 26, 2015 10:42am
EAD

Political correctness is not about being “nice”, it is about turning normality on its head and destroying civilisation:

http://nwioqeqkdf.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/theres-no-shame-in-shaming.html?m=1

Once again, the left imposes its morality on others by suppressing all dissent against their destructive madness through the use of state force. The vast majority of normal, well adjusted people still deplore the sorts of antisocial behaviour humanity has condemned for thousands of years. They might still tut disapprovingly under their breath, but after decades of cultural marxism they no longer feel the self confidence to correct their fellow citizens who are in error.

Of course for public shaming to work the vast majority of the public as a whole must have a shared morality which they can impose upon a few deviants. However, when a society has no common foundation, shared history, heritage or culture there is no common morality which can be enforced. This is where we increasingly find ourselves in the multicultural morass that the western world has become. In this, as in so many other regards, a combination of mass third world immigration and cultural marxism have served to destroy the fabric of our society like a cancer
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October 26, 2015 10:48am
EAD

The top rated comment on the article:

“The dominant minority have learned well from history how to systematically bring down and destroy a culture or society.

This time around it’s Europeans and white people who are being targeted.
Revenge is the name of this game.

The sad thing is that we have also learned from history, or should have learned, and yet thus far we are largely letting them get away with it. Many people are aware of what’s going on but probably don’t know what if anything can be done about it.

An alarming number of people don’t seem to care and positively revel in the Caligulafication of our culture.

I don’t care about these retards and deviants. They’ll get what’s coming to them, one way or another. Those who are good, strong and honest will survive, hopefully”
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October 26, 2015 10:52am
mikenmild

I’m sure a solid national socialist government would fix all that for you, EAD.
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October 26, 2015 11:04am
Reid

Brief summary of the Chinese trilemma.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1883412-china-cuts-rates-is-getting-desperate/
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October 26, 2015 11:21am
Than

Why is it that NZ (unlike the US and Japan) is so willing to scrap aspects of its own culture. For example, the US retains its penny, and Japan its 1-yen aluminum coin. Why did NZ scrap its minor coins?

Claiming that coins are an aspect of culture is stretching the definition of culture. But even assuming they are, functionality always trumps ideology.

The US can keep wasting the time/effort to mint them if they like, but pennies are already close enough to worthless and the nickel is not far behind. And the US paper notes look embarassingly archaic – they wouldn’t be out of place next to Victorian pound notes. Now granted that’s just asthetics, but the US notes will also be a lot easier to counterfit compared with the polymer notes used by every other developed country.
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October 26, 2015 11:28am
Reid

Good episode of CrossTalk, on Syria. RT is really coming along. Shame you can’t get the same quality out of any of the Western MSM, but no surprises why that’s totally absent. If people start waking up, they can’t be controlled anymore and all hell will break loose once they realise how profoundly they’ve been fooled by the profound evil that lies everywhere in what they had thought was their free and just democracies.

https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/319468-military-difference-fighting-terrorists/
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October 26, 2015 11:30am
Odakyu-sen

Inandout

“I think he sums us Kiwis up in the best way when he says, “New Zealanders don’t give a stuff about anything too much.”

I wonder why New Zealanders tend not to “give a stuff.” Possible reasons might be:
a. It doesn’t matter to them now (but they aren’t thinking about the future).
b. It doesn’t matter to them now and they don’t believe that it will in the future.
c. There’s nothing that they can do about it.
d. They believe they can escape from it.
e. They believe they can deal with it if it becomes a problem.
f. They believe someone else will deal with it for them.
g. They aren’t aware of whatever it is.
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October 26, 2015 11:37am
Reid

Is the NWO dying? No, of course not, it’s been around for centuries and if they get a setback they just put things on ice, back off and wait a few decades for things to quiet down and the sheeple to forget. However, in the last few decades they’ve been reaching crescendo levels compared to the decades prior to that, world wars notwithstanding. But this article points to signs people are, if not awakening, at least switching off the programming, and that’s a good sign, everyone will agree.

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/10/is-the-new-world-order-dying-part-2.html
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October 26, 2015 11:39am
Scott

I thought the Lord of the Rings movies were excellent and a great tribute to New Zealander’s Peter Jackson genius really. They are still great tourist attractions and places like Matamata get a lot of mileage from LOTR.
They are a great story, very well told and a tribute to NZ expertise in film making. So as a New Zealander I am very proud of the movies.

Also Mr Jackson now lives in the Wairarapa and anybody who can bring the gorgeous Kate Winslet to Masterton is ok by me ?
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October 26, 2015 12:13pm
Reid

NATO is desperate. The Pentagon is desperate. Imagine waking up one day in Washington and Brussels just to realize Russia has the ability to electronically jam — detect, trace, disable, destroy — NATO electronics within a 600 km range across Syria (and southern Turkey).

Imagine the nightmare of row after row of Russian Richag-AV radar and sonar jamming systems mounted on helicopters and ships jamming everything in sight and finding every available source of electromagnetic radiation. Not only in Syria but also in Ukraine.

Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, commander of U.S. Army units in Europe, was even forced to qualify Russian electronic warfare capabilities in Ukraine as “eye-watering.”

For their part, caught in the crossfire as sitting ducks or headless chickens, that mighty ideological aircraft carrier known as the USS Think Tankland was left dabbling with the four options left for Washington to “achieve its goals” in Syria…

http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20151022/1028936412/nato-pentagon-frustration.html
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October 26, 2015 12:13pm
stephieboy

Reid, a reminder that Sputnik is a Kremlin based Propoganda website and only includes ” news” and “info ” that reflects largely official government views .

Electronic jamming and other counter measures etc is the stuff of modern military hardware and warfare .How effective they are is often a moot point ,but propogandrising about them does not render them more effective .We saw this yesterday with your adulation of the SU 34 which is only as effective in the manner it’s strategjcally deployed .Hi tech does not necessarily win in especially urban and guerrilla combat war zones.

Both the US in Vietnam and The Soviet Union in Afghanistan testify to that .
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October 26, 2015 12:32pm
Sir Leslie Bottocks

AB fans arrogant? Surely not!

“Being gracious and humble is not a contrived or specific All Blacks trait – it is an inherent part of what it means to be a Kiwi.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11534169

Gregor must have fed a whole flock of chickens while he wrote that!!
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October 26, 2015 12:32pm
Reid

Stephie, a reminder that all sides use propaganda, and a reminder that all propaganda has some truth in it. The skill is knowing wherein lies the propaganda and wherein lies the truth, a skill which you evidently don’t possess because you’ve shown nothing of it to date.

Correction to yesterday BTW, it’s not the SU-34 but the SU-35 they have deployed for air superiority support for the ground attack aircraft, and that can beat anything the US has.

You’re an odd person stephie, we all know you desperately want Russia to fail, that’s perfectly apparent. And yet you’re a progressive, and you know what ISIS is doing to innocents. Yet you evidently want them to prevail.
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October 26, 2015 12:43pm
Than

Correction to yesterday BTW, it’s not the SU-34 but the SU-35 they have deployed for air superiority support for the ground attack aircraft, and that can beat anything the US has.

Not true. The Su-35 is an extremely capable fighter, and yes it is superior to almost all western fighter types. But (as best as can be told from publically available information) the F-22 would be more than a match for it. Granted the US doesn’t have as many F-22’s as they were originally going to, but they have enough operational squadrons for a deployment to Syria/Iraq if they want.

As for your last point, we also know what Assad is doing to innocents. Choosing him over ISIS is merely choosing very terrible over extremely terrible.
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October 26, 2015 1:05pm
Reid

But (as best as can be told from publically available information) the F-22 would be more than a match for it.

Disagree Than, but it’s not something I want to spend the rest of the day debating.

As for your last point, we also know what Assad is doing to innocents. Choosing him over ISIS is merely choosing very terrible over extremely terrible.

It’s not our choice, it’s the Syrian people’s choice. Russia has already said once ISIS is history there will be an internationally supervised election at the earliest opportunity. The US won’t however allow the Syrian people to excercise their democratic right, hence the current impass. And the sheeple continue to hallucinate the US is the home of freedom and democracy, whereas Wussia is the big bad meany. How dumb can the sheeple get? I predict, even dumber than they already are.

And like I asked yesterday, if Assad is hated and feared as the West alleges, how come 80% of Syrians live in the 20% he controls? None of the sheeple even tried to answer that.
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October 26, 2015 1:20pm
Inandout

Odakyu-sen: I would go for B or C. In both world wars British commanders were often frustrated by kiwi soldiers wanting to do things their own way. You will still find this attitude mainly amongst farmers and small business owners.
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October 26, 2015 1:24pm
Andrei

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Q8X60KQ9Q
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October 26, 2015 1:31pm
SPC

And like I asked yesterday, if Assad is hated and feared as the West alleges, how come 80% of Syrians live in the 20% he controls? None of the sheeple even tried to answer that.

Is this hard for you to understand?

The regime barrel bombs areas outside its control and rebel areas tend to attract Islamist extremists – so non Moslems, secularists and Moslem moderates for a democratic Syria do not feel safe.
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October 26, 2015 1:58pm
mikenmild

SPC
Did you also like this pearler from Reid:

The US won’t however allow the Syrian people to excercise their democratic right

Amusing.
In fact, there was a presidential election in Syria just last year. You will be amazed to hear that Assad won, but only with 89% of the vote.
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October 26, 2015 2:06pm
simpleton1

Odakyu-sen 8.29:

Inandout October 26th, 2015 at 9:23 am

Odakyu-sen October 26th, 2015 at 11:37 am

Inandout October 26th, 2015 at 1:24 pm

In both world wars British commanders were often frustrated by kiwi soldiers wanting to do things their own way. You will still find this attitude mainly amongst farmers and small business owners.

“To do things there own way”,…. is because they have to spring for any costs, or sacrifices, directly. That sharpens the pencil to figure, to whether you live or die and what for in regards to soldiering.

“New Zealanders don’t give a stuff about anything too much.” Just what is of important value in life, It is to get on and live life.

For me it is probably a mixture of d, e, g. Though sometimes ignorance is said to be no excuse, or is it by a different measure as to knowledge, research, which leads to credibility concerns, and an overwhelming information flow.

NB it is good to use the time stamp to help find previous replies or queries.
edit, I do not why the quote goes to bold or how to stop that. I know how to make bold, but to stop it?
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October 26, 2015 2:06pm
Reid

Notice Blitzer throws around a ‘Assad killed 300,000 of his own people’ but no evidence, nothing. We’re supposed to believe it cos CNN says so.

A bit like this claim from the Pentagram:

Konashenkov, the Russian Defense Ministry spokesman, shrugged off the Pentagon’s claim that four of the missiles crashed in Iran.

“All those targets (in Syria) must have exploded all by themselves then!” he said with a sardonic smile, insisting that every Russian missile hit its target.

http://news.yahoo.com/syria-mission-demonstrates-russias-prowess-103015120.html
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October 26, 2015 2:10pm
stephieboy

Reid, the SU 35 superior to anything the US has ? In what what has that been demonstrated in actual combat conditions ?

Yes all sides use pprooognada but we in the West have a better chance of assessing the truth from both sides with e.g an unfiltered and censored Internet as your , EAD and Andrei’s posts amply demonstrate !

Sputnik and RT do not assist us in arriving at evidence and facts as their clumsy attempt to cover up Flight M17 amply reveals

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/02/18/russians-dont-trust-the-internet-and-its-making-the-country-worse/
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October 26, 2015 2:13pm
Reid

Is this hard for you to understand?

The regime barrel bombs areas outside its control and rebel areas tend to attract Islamist extremists – so non Moslems, secularists and Moslem moderates for a democratic Syria do not feel safe.

No, the Western MSM claims it does that. A bit like the chemical attack committed by Turkey. But eventually the truth will out. It’s just when it does, the Western MSM won’t tell you about that bit.

CHP deputies Eren Erdem and Ali Şeker held a press conference in İstanbul on Wednesday in which they claimed the investigation into allegations regarding Turkey’s involvement in the procurement of sarin gas which was used in the chemical attack on a civil population and delivered to the terrorist Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) to enable the attack was derailed.

Taking the floor first, Erdem stated that the Adana Chief Prosecutor’s Office launched an investigation into allegations that sarin was sent to Syria from Turkey via several businessmen. An indictment followed regarding the accusations targeting the government.

“The MKE [Turkish Mechanical and Chemical Industry Corporation] is also an actor that is mentioned in the investigation file. Here is the indictment. All the details about how sarin was procured in Turkey and delivered to the terrorists, along with audio recordings, are inside the file,” Erdem said while waving the file.

http://www.todayszaman.com/national_chp-deputies-govt-rejects-probe-into-turkeys-role-in-syrian-chemical-attack_402180.html

Frankly, anyone who believes anything the Western MSM says is a complete moron.

The world is in the trouble it’s in because people believe what they read in the newspapers and see on TV.

They don’t realize that the lying faces of the insincere announcers and the false invective of cynical editors and writers are all financed by the same manipulators who cause all these colossal wars and produce all these overpriced poisons because there are no better ways to make astronomically large amounts of money.

Anybody who is not an idiot can realize that the world can’t afford what these psychopaths are trying to sell…

http://300spartans.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=850076:trapped-in-a-poison-fog&catid=138:kaminski&Itemid=5917&lang=en&utm_source=newsletter_3020&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=trapped-in-a-poison-fog

Amusing.
In fact, there was a presidential election in Syria just last year. You will be amazed to hear that Assad won, but only with 89% of the vote.

No not amazed at all mm. In fact when we have the internationally supervised election I’d be amazed if he didn’t get even more. Because he isn’t who the Western MSM paints him to be. It’s a meme, dummy. To facilitate the regime change operation, dummy. Duh. And since every single Syrian knows exactly that, they’re never going to fucking vote for the scum puppet the West puts up, are they.
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October 26, 2015 2:14pm
mikenmild

It would be interesting to see whether we could determine a percentage threshold above which an electoral result is likely to be fraudulent. 89% is obviously so. I wonder why more dictators rigging elections don’t go for a a more credible margin.
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October 26, 2015 2:28pm
SPC

I think we need to update the term fellow traveller, how about “Putin people” for those who hold to the official CT approved by Russia Today – the new Pravda/the only MSM they believe in.
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October 26, 2015 2:29pm
stephieboy

Reid, of course Assad would welcome an independent or UN fact finding mission to asses responsibility for the chemical attack on the Damascus suburb of Ghouta ?,

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/syria-chemical-weapons-attack-ghouta-150821171643290.html

Your claim of Turkish complicity in the chemical attacks is as worthless as your claim that Israeli soldiers were attending to wounded ISIS combatants and of course the claims of the so called “Dr Ambassador ” and the Israel general .

Name the candidates who were able to run against Assad in the Presidential election ?
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October 26, 2015 2:36pm
mikenmild

It’s always amusing to see those who decry the Western MSM as propaganda lapping up the news from RT or Sputnik.
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October 26, 2015 2:38pm
SPC

Andrei, interesting line from the Congresswoman from Hawaii about the necessary role of Congress in mandating actions to remove a foreign government. Particularly when Syria is a reprise of the Afghanistan scenario where Russia was backing the government and the Americans Islamists trying to remove it. While funding was allocated by Congress then, it was never sanctioned as an operation to remove a government (more to assist those fighting Russians).

Then come all the variables, military action, economic sanctions, supply of weapons to CIA activity.
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October 26, 2015 2:39pm
Gabby

kiwi soldiers wanting to do things their own way

Bombing Monte Cassino flat? The defence of Crete? Let them have their own way just a bit much, I reckon.
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October 26, 2015 2:40pm
DJP6-25

A win for the Euroskeptics in Poland.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20151025/eu–poland-elections-8677462c07.html
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October 26, 2015 2:47pm
Manolo

The veteran should be in a rest-home instead of running:
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/25/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-gun-control-shouting/

Bernie Sanders says his criticism of Hillary Clinton’s “shouting” on gun control has nothing to do with her gender.
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October 26, 2015 2:48pm
Manolo

Nobody can argue the contrary:
http://news.yahoo.com/world-better-place-saddam-kadhafi-still-power-trump-150717855.html;_ylt=AwrXnCUwUC1WAyoAQjHQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBzdmVvZmlwBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxMAR2dGlkAwRzZWMDc3I-

The world would be a better place if dictators such as Saddam Hussein and Moamer Kadhafi were still in power, top Republican US presidential hopeful Donald Trump said in comments aired Sunday.
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October 26, 2015 2:57pm
SPC

Manolo, I suppose Trump is seeking a mandate to support dictators rather than democracy if he is elected into office.
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October 26, 2015 3:06pm
Andrei

I suppose Trump is seeking a mandate to support dictators rather than democracy if he is elected into office

SPC in case you hadn’t noticed the USA’s strongest ally in the ME is Saudi Arabia which is about as far from a democracy as you can imagine and they support the Saudis against Iran which is a democracy

The USA recently overthrew the democratically elected Government of Ukraine and appointed a quizling Government thus plunging Ukraine into chaos and civil war

And this has been going on for years in many places
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October 26, 2015 3:23pm
SPC

Andrei, the topic was a candidate for President who sought a mandate for a policy to not support the removal of dictators.

The Cold War line was dictators were OK so long as they were allies in the Cold War.

Since then policy has been to support democracy.
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October 26, 2015 3:32pm
cha

Liar or thug?.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/10/25/ben-carson-discusses-being-violently-stabby-and-its-easily-the-craziest-thing-hes-said-so-far/
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October 26, 2015 3:38pm
SPC

Andrei, they support Saudi Arabia because, unlike Iran, it does not call the USA the Great Satan.

Iran is not a democracy, it is a theist state where candidades for office are vetted before they can stand. The sort of democracy one sees in China, a one party state. Iran is a militant state that seeks the victory of Islam no less than Islamic State.

The USA did not make the Ukraine people remove their own government. The former government chose to act at variance to the will of the Ukraine people, to serve the interests of a foreign power. He fled to Russia when faced with popular opposition.
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October 26, 2015 3:38pm
Reid

Since then policy has been to support democracy.

Except actions don’t match words. Witness Libya, witness Syria. How are either of those actions “supporting democracy?”

Only an idiot would claim they do.
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October 26, 2015 3:44pm
SPC

Reid, American action was in support of the Arab spring.

The flaw is that sufficient action to depose a regime but not sufficient to establish a democracy leads only to a failed state.
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October 26, 2015 3:54pm
Brigitte

Manolo (18,055 comments) says:
October 26th, 2015 at 2:57 pm

“Nobody can argue the contrary:
http://news.yahoo.com/world-better-place-saddam-kadhafi-still-power-trump-150717855.html;_ylt=AwrXnCUwUC1WAyoAQjHQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBzdmVvZmlwBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxMAR2dGlkAwRzZWMDc3I-

The world would be a better place if dictators such as Saddam Hussein and Moamer Kadhafi were still in power, top Republican US presidential hopeful Donald Trump said in comments aired Sunday.”

Oh, I dunno, they’d be getting a bit smelly by now I reckon being dead as they are.
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October 26, 2015 4:28pm
Left Right and Centre

The final ~~12-10~~ 12-6 score didn’t reflect the end-to-end nature of the play.

I can’t stand Wayne Barnes. He’s the fucktard in school no-one wanted in their gym class team. Useless soft sooky-bubba pasty pommy poofter. Mediocre at best – chicken-arsed gormless git – hahahaha – Wayne – does he need to shave his baby bum face ?
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October 26, 2015 5:03pm
Reid

Reid, American action was in support of the Arab spring.

Yes I know. The point is, the Arab Spring was not a grassroots uprising from the people crying out for democracy, it was a regime change operation, just like all the rest of them were, and are. There hasn’t been a spontaneous grassroots uprising, ever. Even the Russian Revolution was a regime change operation, as was the French. If you don’t even know basic facts like that, then you’re doomed to be perpetually fooled.
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October 26, 2015 5:21pm
Fletch

Hillary, the 60 second lying bitch edit –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skuy9IC_6z8

One hour after the video, Hillary emails to her family, “Two officers were killed in Benghazi by an Al-Qaeda like group”. Less than 24 hours later she emails the Egyptian prime minister, “we know that the attack in Libya had nothing to do with the film. It was a planned attack, not a protest”

And yet the MSM claims she won and that there was no new information – hello??
She lied to protect her and Obama because there was an election coming up.
If she was a Republican, she’d have been called to account.
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October 26, 2015 5:33pm
mikenmild

Even the Russian Revolution was a regime change operation, as was the French

Ha ha ha.
Next you will be telling us who was really behind the disappearance of the Princes in the Tower, or how the Black Death was bacterial warfare.
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October 26, 2015 5:34pm
SPC

Reid, which Russian Revolution, the overthrow of the Tsar or the overthrow of democratic government?

Elections are regime change contests.

The overthrow of the Tsar was popular as was leaving the war.

When the new government decided to stay in the “imperialist” cause war it brought the democratic government into disrepute and left it vulnerable to popular contempt and thus its fate.
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October 26, 2015 5:46pm
Reid

And yet the MSM claims she won and that there was no new information – hello??

Never mind Fletch, this is the same MSM mm & co to give them “the truth.”

Aren’t they stoooooooooooooooooopid.
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October 26, 2015 5:47pm
Fletch

Yah. Here’s Megyn Kelly’s Fox News report on the media lying, via One News.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nc-UJ7kcGY

You can see that Hillary, Obama, Jay Carney, and Obama’s National security adviser Susan Rice all lied on TV.
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October 26, 2015 5:55pm
mikenmild

Is Benghazi really still a thing? Time to find another dead horse to flog?
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October 26, 2015 6:16pm
Longknives

I’m sure Benghazi is ‘still a thing’ to Ambassador Stevens’ loved ones Mikenmild…
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October 26, 2015 6:18pm
mikenmild

Sure, Longknives. I’m sure his relatives derive great comfort from the ongoing effort to secure partisan political advantage from his death.
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October 26, 2015 6:24pm
Than

Disagree Than, but it’s not something I want to spend the rest of the day debating.

Fair enough. The caveat “from publically available information” means neither of us can know for certain. Until the Su-35 and F-22 actually face off even the USAF and Russian Air Force can’t be 100% sure which would prove superior.

It’s not our choice, it’s the Syrian people’s choice. Russia has already said once ISIS is history there will be an internationally supervised election at the earliest opportunity.

And if you believe that for a millisecond I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Assad has already proven he is willing to use extreme violence against his own people to stay in power. A little electoral fraud would be nothing. And it’s naive to the point of stupidity to believe Russia has any interest in supporting democracy in Sryia. Their goal is a stable Syrian state controlled by a regime friendly to them, which means keeping Assad in power.
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October 26, 2015 6:44pm
DJP6-25

In the incredibly unlikely event that Hilary Clinton is indicted over Benghazi, or anything else, Obama will give her a free pardon. He can’t afford not to. She knows where the bodies are buried.
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October 26, 2015 7:13pm
Reid

And if you believe that for a millisecond I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Assad has already proven he is willing to use extreme violence against his own people to stay in power. A little electoral fraud would be nothing. And it’s naive to the point of stupidity to believe Russia has any interest in supporting democracy in Sryia. Their goal is a stable Syrian state controlled by a regime friendly to them, which means keeping Assad in power.

Do you not understand what Syria is about?

These will help, if you read them.

https://medium.com/dan-sanchez/clean-break-to-dirty-wars-d5ebc5fda9f9#.76fxsk875

https://medium.com/dan-sanchez/seize-the-chaos-d065f507f0cc#.evosd4z0f
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October 26, 2015 7:18pm
Brigitte

Syria & Assad has got me thinking (or is that drinking, hmm, there’s an idea).

If Russia wants to stop a pipeline to Europe (cutting their market share/profit substantially) then the option of ISIS/Rebels succeeding (after some years) would not be a bad outcome. After all, Iraq is unlikely to be safe enough to build the first part of the pipeline for some years to come. After that, Syria is still likely to be a mess somewhat similar to Libya.

If Russia succeed in ridding Syria of ISIS then there will be pressure on an election to take place and subsequently a pipeline would become feasible.

So, what am I missing in this picture? Perhaps Russia think that the US/NATO will use ISIS to channel north for a regime change operation in Moscow???? That seems a bit far fetched to me.

So, does anyone have any ideas as to Russia’s reasoning and goal in all this.
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October 26, 2015 7:18pm
Fletch

Happy St Crispin’s Day (yesterday, here). Anniversary of the Battle of Agincourt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHYeDqEngxU
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October 26, 2015 7:23pm
Andrei

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqlPK3Vdqzk
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October 26, 2015 7:35pm
Manolo

Making room for more invaders: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34634214

Another 100,000 spaces in refugee welcome centres will be created under a deal agreed by European leaders at an emergency summit in Brussels.

More than 9,000 migrants arrived in Greece every day last week, the highest rate so far this year.
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October 26, 2015 7:51pm
cha

lying bitch edit

D’Souza style class there Fletch – do you fuck around on your wife too?.
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October 26, 2015 7:59pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pc0r1met32dvsgu/Propaganda.jpg?dl=0
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October 26, 2015 8:00pm
stigie

Full moon on the 28th Oct. Could be a very interesting night…?
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October 26, 2015 8:22pm
cha

Is in Syrian a real place?.
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October 26, 2015 8:26pm
nasska

Just south of Turkeyn cha.
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October 26, 2015 8:48pm
Brigitte

‘Turkeyn’? I’d have said it was near Turkish, which is a delight-full place!
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October 26, 2015 9:08pm

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