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September 13, 2015 12:00pm by David Farrar

Why we need to change the flag

This photo from a newspaper, which I saw on Facebook, is a great example of why we should change the flag.

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Comment74

New Zealand
NZ flag

Comments (74)

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eszett

The confusion argument is a rather weak one, just because some sports editor can’t keep the two flags apart isn’t reason enough to change it. And because if theoretically Australia would suddenly change it’s flag, would you then be happy to keep the current one?

A more convincing argument, in my opinion, is that we need a flag which truly represents us and our nation.

That our flag will be easily distinguished from the Australian one is an added bonus, but shouldn’t be the main driver.
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September 13, 2015 12:08pm
box345

I have to strongly disagree with you eszett. Imho, the confusion argument is massive.
And it’s about time we got off our pathetic lazy complacent New Zealand arses and fixed the confusion.
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September 13, 2015 12:13pm
labrator

Heh, forgot how ridiculous the welsh flag is. Maybe we should change our flag to a Taniwha, after all it screams NZ and is totally unique to us.
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September 13, 2015 12:16pm
ChrisM

There are plenty of examples around of ignorants getting flags or national anthems wrong. If DPF and box345 are correct, what do we do when Liechenstein play Haiti? Or Chad and Romania?
http://www.quora.com/What-countries-have-very-similar-looking-flags
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September 13, 2015 12:18pm
mjw

Imagine how dreadful the silver fern/southern cross designs would look when reduced to size of the flags in this newspaper. Far too busy.
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September 13, 2015 12:19pm
duggledog

Why doesn’t Australia change theirs.
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September 13, 2015 12:22pm
deadrightkev

What an incredibly limp argument DPF. However, I grant you it is one the sheeple are likely to be sucked in by in some numbers but not in enough numbers IMHO.

I will never vote for a change of flag because the reasoning for such change is masked in deeper motives that do not fit with my world view of what NZ should look like in 50 years.

The same prime minister promotes a flag change on the basis of recognition and at the same time reforms little else of much more importance while plundering the New Zealand taxpayer unceremoniously promoting deep separatism.

John Key has been a massive disappointment by any measure. He will never get my respect.

Duggledog

No Aussie PM would dare try to change the flag.
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September 13, 2015 12:26pm
Kimbo

@ deadrightkev

I will never vote for a change of flag because the reasoning for change is masked in deeper motives.

Crikey! You argue like my Mrs when we have an argument! Have you been taking lessons from her?
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September 13, 2015 12:29pm
Monique Angel

We may need a new flag. But the silver fern and Koru are primarily marketing trademarks.
The Koru and silver fern should be used to market NZ and our products to the world. But curves belong on chests not on flags.
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September 13, 2015 12:38pm
Kimbo

@ Monique Angel

We may need a new flag. But the silver fern and Koru Are primarily marketing symbols. They should be used to market NZ and our products to the world. But curves belong on chests not on flags.

Umm. Why can’t it be both/and, and not the either/or dichotomy you suggest?

I go to an Irish pub – I see, among other (sometimes admittedly tacky and cliched) Irish paraphernalia, their green, white and orange flag.

And I’d suggest, other than where local legislation bans the use of the flag in advertising (I think it is illegal for Americans to wear the stars and stripes as clothing – maybe you have local knowledge?), lots of countries’ businesses use their flag for advertising/branding products – especially the “iconic” ones for which they are known internationally.
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September 13, 2015 12:47pm
Caine9

The fact that some foreigners get our flag wrong is no reason to change it. What else will we ditch because of overseas idiots?
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September 13, 2015 12:49pm
Scott1

I confuse USA with Liberia – because I can’t count stars even when one of them is big.
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September 13, 2015 12:59pm
Keeping Stock

From the Herald:

Popular flag design Red Peak is currently being used as the logo of an American engineering firm.

Peak Engineering in North Carolina has been using a logo featuring a red triangle, white chevron and two black triangles, since 2008.

Red Peak, the design that has seen a swell of support for inclusion in the referendum for a new New Zealand flag, is similar, but has a blue triangle in place of one black triangle.
Company owners Beth and Jeff Roach told Fairfax they thought their company logo’s similarity to Red Peak was “curious”.

“It’s obviously caught us by surprise. . . and we were even more surprised that people had nicknamed it ‘red peak’. Obviously we’re very flattered!” Mrs Roach said.

The couple had received an email about the flag debate from a Kiwi on Wednesday. Mrs Roach said she deleted the email, but more came through.

Mrs Roach said Peak Engineering’s logo had been used on client gifts, including stationary and wine.

She told Fairfax it wasn’t trademarked and she would grant license to anybody willing to use it.

“But I think we need to have a conversation with anybody who’s interested in using it, just so we clear everything up and make sure it’s all above board.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11512358

Given that many of those who support “Red Peak” have cited a distaste for anything that could have marketing overtones, might some of that support now diminish? After all, do we really want a national flag with a company logo that has been used on client gifts such as bottles of plonk by a company in small-town USA?
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September 13, 2015 1:01pm
srylands

Well I can guarantee that with the four on offer we will not be changing the flag.
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September 13, 2015 1:02pm
ross411

Kimbo (2,581 comments) says:
September 13th, 2015 at 12:29 pm
@ deadrightkev

I will never vote for a change of flag because the reasoning for change is masked in deeper motives.

Crikey! You argue like my Mrs when we have an argument! Have you been taking lessons from her?

Imagine if Key gave in to deadrightkev’s every little whim and complaint. He may have deadrightkev’s respect then, but the rest of us would likely be subject to a bunch of batshit crazy miserable nonsense.
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September 13, 2015 1:02pm
Gabby

Why we need to change newspapers.
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September 13, 2015 1:08pm
Nigel Kearney

Nobody cares about this except the people using it as an excuse to change the flag.
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September 13, 2015 1:13pm
Newbie

Is it a NZ newspaper? maybe they did the mistake on purpose? Otherwise shame on the NZ editorial for not knowing NZ’s flag properly.

I agree with Caine9 (12.49) – it’s not our fault if overseas people cannot tell the difference between NZ and Australia’s flag.
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September 13, 2015 1:16pm
Harriet

The aussie and kiwi flags are the only two that get consistantly confused, best to leave them as they are imho.

Tourism NZ, and possibly Aussie, along with foreign affairs ect, can use the confusion as a marketing tool — and the problem will eventualy sort itself out.
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September 13, 2015 1:17pm
eszett

box345 (238 comments) says:
September 13th, 2015 at 12:13 pm
I have to strongly disagree with you eszett. Imho, the confusion argument is massive.
And it’s about time we got off our pathetic lazy complacent New Zealand arses and fixed the confusion

So, if Australia would change it’s flag tomorrow, you’d be happy to keep our current flag?

Given that many of those who support “Red Peak” have cited a distaste for anything that could have marketing overtones, might some of that support now diminish? After all, do we really want a national flag with a company logo that has been used on client gifts such as bottles of plonk by a company in small-town USA?

Some have argued that, not necessarily many. Nearly every countries flag could be used as a logo.

Besides, having one company have a similar logo is quite different having dozens of companies and products sprouting the fern.
It would be hard to come up with a design that hasn’t been used somehow somewhere in the world.
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September 13, 2015 1:17pm
EverlastingFire

I never quite understood this argument. Many of the Euro countries have very similar flags but don’t want to change them. Take Germany/Belgium or France/Netherlands for example. Also why doesn’t Austria or Australian change their country name, cause people are always getting those mixed up?

At the end of the day NZ is an insignificant player in the world and people will always mix us up with Australia, similar flag or not.
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September 13, 2015 1:28pm
Longknives

This is a weak argument..
Check out the flags for Chad, Romania, Moldova and Andorra.
Rather similar- Don’t see everyone up in arms about that though..
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September 13, 2015 1:42pm
Monique Angel

Dammit. Who mentioned Irish Pubs! Now I got a thirst on me.
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September 13, 2015 1:44pm
Fentex

A flags purpose is first and foremost identification. Complete, and oft repeated, failure in that purpose is the strongest argument for change given it’s the most fundamental purpose of a flag.
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September 13, 2015 2:04pm
AgentBallSack

Call me a cynic but I am bloody delighted the Red Peaks is a carbon copy of Peak Engineerings corporate logo.
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September 13, 2015 2:11pm
Reid

I have to strongly disagree with you eszett. Imho, the confusion argument is massive.

Oh yes of course it is. It’s top of mind, and has been for over a hundred years, whenever anyone thought about the flag or mentioned it in conversation, the number one thing always raised has 100% been this dreadful perplexing utter and total confusion with Australia that the whole country just hates and can’t even sleep at night because we’re all so concerned about it.

/sarc
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September 13, 2015 2:12pm
wellygirl

“The aussie and kiwi flags are the only two that get consistantly confused…..”

Unlike France / Netherlands or Germany / Belgium or Poland / Indonesia or Andorra / Romania or Red Cross / Switzerland….

More than just the Australian and NZ flags get consistently confused. It is a weak argument for changing the flag.
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September 13, 2015 2:13pm
Pharmachick

I have the following comments…

Most your Kiwi travellers don’t put the flag on their backpacks/luggage – its always the silver fern or a kiwi.

Having lived o/seas for the last 15 years whenever I see a kiwi at a sporting event or any sort of exhibition (including cultural), they’re waving a silver fern flag.

Our military war heroes (dead) are buried under headstones with a silver fern (to flag).

The NZRFU should be told to STFU re: “oh, sooky its our trademark” when the entire country would at least like to see it considered.

I’m sure you all can deduce what I would like to see as our flag …

(and for the “Jolly Roger/pirate” commenters … my thoughts on that are … its no longer 1652
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September 13, 2015 2:17pm
Inandout

Pharmachick: As has been discussed a thousand times many sports people wear symbols other than what is on their country’s flags – kangaroos, kiwis, lions etc. The issue is that because of obvious poor education it means now some people can’t count stars of different colours and numbers. Oh look, that flag has a big star beneath the union jack so it must be different from that one with four smaller stars. I would be hard pushed to pick more than 20 world flags because of similarities.
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September 13, 2015 2:26pm
wellygirl

“Most your Kiwi travellers don’t put the flag on their backpacks/luggage – its always the silver fern or a kiwi.”

I have seen plenty of kiwi’s travelling with both, the flag and silver fern / kiwi.

“Having lived o/seas for the last 15 years whenever I see a kiwi at a sporting event or any sort of exhibition (including cultural), they’re waving a silver fern flag.”

Ummmm….. the silver fern is a sporting flag, so yes you will see it at sporting events, and as far as exhibitions are concerned, the silver fern is the trademarked logo of a number of government agencies that promote NZ overseas, so it is logical that the government logo’s will be prominent. Though, at the last cultural event in China I went to promoting NZ I didn’t see a silver fern at all, just the New Zealand flag. Maybe it depends on what country you are in, that perhaps if you are in a country that identifies the All Blacks, for example, as being New Zealand, then the fern will be used as it is recognised by rugby / sporting people. Just a thought. I usually see the NZ flag promoting NZ in China, and the only time I have seen the fern for promotions was as the logo for NZTE.

“Our military war heroes (dead) are buried under headstones with a silver fern (to flag).”

Most countries don’t use their flag. Germany doesn’t, Australia doesn’t, UK doesn’t – that is an erroneous argument used to try to counter the RSA’s opposition. Gravestones in Military cemeteries do not have the flag (I haven’t seen a US one, they may be different). Canada uses a maple leaf, but that pre-dates them putting the maple leaf on their flag.

“The NZRFU should be told to STFU re: “oh, sooky its our trademark” when the entire country would at least like to see it considered.”

The entire country WOULD NOT like to see it considered, only some of the country would. If you live overseas how can you possibly assume to speak for the entire country, I know many in NZ, and NZers out of NZ who would not like to see it considered.

“I’m sure you all can deduce what I would like to see as our flag …”

The NZTE logo maybe….
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September 13, 2015 2:47pm
Fletch

I have asked this before, but why are the referenda in the wrong order? Surely the question as to whether we wanted to change the current flag at all should have been asked FIRST before going to the huge expense of asking for submissions for a new design, whittling down the numbers and organizing another referendum as to which flag choice of the new four was wanted.

And if they are going to do it in this order, why not just include the current flag as a fifth choice together with the four new designs and save time and expense on a second referendum?

I reckon it’s because they know damn well that if they asked straight out if anyone wants a new flag, the answer would be no.

It’s a canny marketing trick doing it this way to get people involved and give them a mindset that a new flag is needed. What’s the bet that after the first referendum, they’ll forego the second one altogether and just go with what people “chose” as the new flag.
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September 13, 2015 3:28pm
Manolo

DPF does not miss a chance to advance his leader’s whim.
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September 13, 2015 3:30pm
Pharmachick

Hi all,

these are well-reasoned and excellent comments… thanks for the discussion.

Hi, Inandout .. I agree completely with your analysis. This is why I think we need a wholesale change (like Canada), that defines us as Kiwis and in Canada when they did that, it was very controversial as well.

To wellygirl,

its always nice to meet a new commenter and be taken to task 😉 My comments as an o/seas person were to [hopefully] balance out the debate in NZ that seems to be revolving around some very small (but vocal) self interest groups. For example, the “triangle flag” group (yes, I know it’s [potential] new name but…) basically thought they could hijack a national conversation because of social media. Its not the way to go to engage **all** of the population.

Also, you anecdote about seeing “plenty of Kiwis traveling with both the flag and silver fern/kiwi” is no better than mine. We have anecdotes. I live somewhere in North America and travel 50-100K airmiles per year. I am sure your anecdote is equally as valid as mine.

Lastly, depends on our version of cultural events … the last time I was in a Polynesian fest in Hawaii the spectators were pretty much waving the silver fern.

Anyhow, in spite of your aggressive initial post here to me, I hope I have given you some more concrete things to think about and hope you will think about these many events where the silver fern was waved/flown that are not just sports.

My point was simply that one of the enduring symbols of NZ: the silver fern… i.e. white/on/black… is given by out military as an honorific on grave stones, is waved by sports fans, is shown by travelers and is somewhat of a de-facto NZ symbol. Since that seems so over-arching, is wondered why it didn’t make the flag debate. Moreover, the NZRFU’s refusal to make the most recognizable silver fern in NZ available for the “new flag” debate seems rather selfish and disingenuous.
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September 13, 2015 3:31pm
Michael

Why many Australians want to change their flag.

http://djc9.tripod.com/newflag/why.htm
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September 13, 2015 3:39pm
Pita

flag similarities are not worth getting bent out a shape about…Mistaking the South Korean flag for that of North Korea (it happened and they don’t look remotely the same) that’s tantamount to a declaration of war!
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September 13, 2015 3:52pm
gravedodger

So someone takes the piss and that’s evidence?
I hope none of the shallower than a carpark puddle involved here are ever in judgement on me for something that really matters.

Now explain again what is so distinguishing and identifying about Uruguay’s flag, we have a very similar one in the teatowel draw.
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September 13, 2015 4:05pm
Albert_Ross

Will you give me $100 for what’s in this box, Fletch?

What’s that you say? You want to know what’s in the box is before you decide whether you’ll give up $100 for it? I don’t understand – why can’t you just decide first and then see what it is?
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September 13, 2015 4:27pm
Kimbo

@ Monique Angel

@ Monique Angel

We may need a new flag. But the silver fern and Koru Are primarily marketing symbols. They should be used to market NZ and our products to the world. But curves belong on chests not on flags.

Umm. Why can’t it be both/and, and not the either/or dichotomy you suggest?

I go to an Irish pub – I see, among other (sometimes admittedly tacky and cliched) Irish paraphernalia, their green, white and orange flag.

And I’d suggest, other than where local legislation bans the use of the flag in advertising (I think it is illegal for Americans to wear the stars and stripes as clothing – maybe you have local knowledge?), lots of countries’ businesses use their flag for advertising/branding products – especially the “iconic” ones for which they are known internationally.

…and further to my post, I just bought a French-made iron pot this afternoon for cooking onion soup, coc-au-vin, beef bourguignon, etc

…and wrapped around the lid when I opened it was a tricolouer ribbon.

So if one of the most conservative countries in the world are willing to use their flag for branding…why not one of the newest and most innovative?
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September 13, 2015 4:37pm
Steve (North Shore)

Red Peak flag has some annoying message for me.
Check out Palestine’s flag. Is that why the loony left and angry andy want it?
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September 13, 2015 4:40pm
Kimbo

typo: Coq au vin!

And: Tricolore – was meaning their (singular) flag, not the (plural) French national rugby team.

(The French have a reputation for pique if their language is not treated with respect…or so I’ve head)
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September 13, 2015 4:44pm
Kimbo

make that “heard”
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September 13, 2015 4:50pm
Steve (North Shore)

John Key marketing department works like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GNfRBn4-5c
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September 13, 2015 4:50pm
Akaroa

And the flag debate rolls on!

Good! Its helpful to hear other’s viewpoints on this – what is becoming – a burning question.

BUt. (And its a big but) Why change our flag atall? And don’t give me that rubbish about it being like the Australian Flag.

My answer to that is “So what?” – a poster above has already made the point that many – I repeat – many national flags bear close resemblance to others. My argument is that if you seriously can’t tell your own nation’s flag from any others – no matter how similar they may be – then you need your eyes testing!!

But before I close please let me once more implore people not – rpt NOT – to push the Silver Fern.

Why not? Because, my dear and honoured friends, it LOOKS LIKE A WHITE FEATHER!!

And you know about the White Feather don’t you? Of course you do – its the Universal Symbol of Cowardice!!

During World Wars 1 and 2 – before conscription came in – men of military age who had NOT volunteered for War Service would sometimes in the post recieve from an anonymous poster a single white feather. In other words “You Coward!!”

So, whatever we finally decide, DON’T for goodness sake allow the white feather – (sorry, i meant Silver Fern (!!) – to appear on New Zealand’s flag!!

To many people in the wider World it would suggest that we are a nation of cowards!!
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September 13, 2015 5:18pm
SGA

Akaroa at 5:18 pm

But before I close please let me once more implore people not – rpt NOT – to push the Silver Fern.
Why not? Because, my dear and honoured friends, it LOOKS LIKE A WHITE FEATHER!!
And you know about the White Feather don’t you? Of course you do – its the Universal Symbol of Cowardice!!

Good grief, not again. The silver fern marks the graves of NZ’s fallen – I’m happy to take that mantle.
Seriously Akaroa, if you haven’t got the union jack out of your system after all this time, why not think about becoming a “repat”.
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September 13, 2015 5:31pm
greenjacket

Akaroa:”it LOOKS LIKE A WHITE FEATHER!!”
Perhaps you have poor eyesight.

“And you know about the White Feather don’t you? Of course you do – its the Universal Symbol of Cowardice!!”
NO IT ISN’T. Only for early 20th century British was a white feather a symbol of cowardice. But for Maori it is a symbol of mana, and for Yanks it isa symbol of marksmanship. And I have written this in response to Akaroa’s BS before, so Akaroa is either a troll or has reading comprehension difficulties.
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September 13, 2015 5:36pm
Keeping Stock

Manolo said

DPF does not miss a chance to advance his leader’s whim.

How’s your blog going Manolo? Oh; you don’t have one.

Do you really think you should be criticising DPF’s efforts then?
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September 13, 2015 5:39pm
Akaroa

SGA at 5.31

Oh Mate! Where shall i start?.

Well, first, I took New Zealand citizenship as soon as I possibly could after emigrating in 1974 and joining the RNZAF. Which included swearing an oath of allegience to the Queen of New Zealand and her Governor General. I worked with a lot of people who hadn’t taken such an oath.

(Question: Have you sworn such allegience?)

Also, when in NZ military uniform I spent three years seconded to a New Zealand Embassy in a foreign country representing New Zealand.

(Question: have you represented New Zealand abroad in any official capacity?)

So, SGA, me ol’ pal, me ol’ buddy, don’t come here talking about getting the Union Jack out of my system.

I did that years ago. Years ago!!
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September 13, 2015 5:41pm
Rachael Membery

How would Labour have changed the flag, they have wanted to for ages? I would prefer National to be in charge of the process if there is to be a change, so I am sure is John Key. I will be voting for the status quo, but thanks for asking.
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September 13, 2015 5:41pm
MT_Tinman

Akaroa, fuck you talk some shit.

Leave the whinging Pom stuff to Longknives – he’s much better at it than you.

In the 1980s NZ was attacked by the frogs.

When NZ appealed to Britain (I almost typed “You Pom Scum” but self control kicked in in time ) to help bring the frogs to heel Maggie told us where to get off.

Since then the inclusion of the Pom abortion in the top left hand corner of the NZ flag has been seriously offensive.
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September 13, 2015 5:44pm
itstricky

How’s your blog going Manolo? Oh; you don’t have one.

Do you really think you should be criticising DPF’s efforts then?

You don’t miss a beat in your defence of National do you?

Funny how Manolo breaks even when he says that, whereas at any other time it’s an automatic banishment
Must be the subject. Highly divisive.
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September 13, 2015 5:48pm
MT_Tinman

Keeping Stock (10,166 comments) says:
September 13th, 2015 at 5:39 pm

Manolo said

DPF does not miss a chance to advance his leader’s whim.

How’s your blog going Manolo? Oh; you don’t have one.

Do you really think you should be criticising DPF’s efforts then?

Yes.
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September 13, 2015 5:53pm
Akaroa

Re: Greenjacket (762 comments) at 5.36 pm

Now now Greenjacket, old sport, temper, temper. Better keep an eye on the ol’ blood-pressure eh?

To address your thoughtful and helpful positive comment, where you comment on my being: “..a troll or has reading comprehension difficulties…”

Well, guess I’d better plead guilty to the troll charge then, as i haven’t any reading comprehension difficulties as far as I’m aware.

Anyway, that aside, thanks for your comment Greenjacket, its always useful, not to say helpfgul, to get abit of feedback on one’s on-line meanderings now and again!

Btw, your soubriquet has always intrigued me. The ‘Greenjackets’, as I’m sure you know, were a famous British Regiment that was only disbanded in the early 60s.

They did actually wear a Green ceremonial uniform on special occasions, but perhaps their greatest claim to fame was the fast rate at which they marched, Historically they were a sort of ‘fire-brigade’ regiment, and were thrown into battle at the deep end whenever things looked a bit dicey. To get into battle they marched at a phenomenally fast rate – the ‘Light infantry” pace.

But you probably knew all that didn’t you Greenjacket?
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September 13, 2015 5:54pm
deadrightkev

Kimbo

“Crikey! You argue like my Mrs when we have an argument! Have you been taking lessons from her?”

I gave you an uptick too for what its worth 😀

Ross411

“He may have deadrightkev’s respect then, but the rest of us would likely be subject to a bunch of batshit crazy miserable nonsense.”

Spot the sycophant. At least I can think for myself without going baa baa behind Key.
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September 13, 2015 5:56pm
Akaroa

MTTinman at 5.44

Yes, I remember when the Poms wouldn’t come to our aid.

At the time i was a RNZAF Staff Officer in Defene HQ in Wellington.

Remember it well.

(Those bl–dy Poms, eh?)
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September 13, 2015 5:59pm
SGA

Akaroa at 5:41 pm

So, SGA, me ol’ pal, me ol’ buddy, don’t come here talking about getting the Union Jack out of my system.
I did that years ago. Years ago!!

Doesn’t read that way, Akaroa. Sorry.
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September 13, 2015 6:07pm
coge

If the flag needs changing over occasional confusion, let Aussie change theirs.
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September 13, 2015 6:54pm
wreck1080

I don’t get it sorry , someone fill me in please
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September 13, 2015 7:24pm
Viking2

Like watching the news so many of those that comment are latter day immigrants who suddenly become kiwi’s and like most of the news commentators understand and know so little about NZ, our history our generations of people and so with their biases showing rant on to tell generational Kiwi’s what we should do with our flag.
Frankly if your family hasn’t been here at least 3 generations you should piss off and mind your own business in silence.

The silver fern is not unique to NZ.
It represents on graves the return to the earth (i.e. ya buried if ya got lucky) and who the hell wants a symbol of death on our flag?

The flag committee must be Key’s 2015 joke committee of the year.
The participants are just that mostly, a fucking joke. He must have been in wacky land when he decided to hand them a nice chunk of taxpayers largess. Stacking it with people like Christie, Menie, Regan etc. doomed to be disaster.

I absolutely think we should have a conversation about a new flag. The current one is fine for the moment but its becoming an anachronism and is in need of replacement with a design the goes forward and tells the world who we are.

Lots more work to do before we have the right one.
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September 13, 2015 8:11pm
Boris Piscina

A 12-year-old child can go online and bring up an image of the flag of any nation in less than 10 seconds.

If some brain dead fuckwit gets it wrong, you don’t blame the flag, you blame the brain dead fuckwit.

Just saying.
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September 13, 2015 8:16pm
Unity

The confusion by others is no reason for us to change our flag. We had ours before Australia so let them change their flag. I like our flag very much and feel good when I see it flying soi will vote NO when asked if I want to change it.
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September 13, 2015 8:24pm
Don the Kiwi

Bullshit bullshit,

Bullshit bullshit bullshit.

And besides, bullshit bullshit bullshit.

Edit: I missed something – BULLSHIT!!!!
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September 13, 2015 8:29pm
Paul Marsden

DPF – Your making excuses for the ingorant in the world. Your part of the problem and not the answer. Shame on you.
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September 13, 2015 8:49pm
emmess

How would Labour have changed the flag, they have wanted to for ages?

They would have chosen it from a social media campaign which started pushing one of the most disliked flags from a preliminary list.
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September 13, 2015 8:56pm
itstricky

DPF – Your making excuses for the ingorant in the world. Your part of the problem and not the answer.

I don’t think DPF should make excuses for the ignorant in the world, so I agree and I have upticked you. But I find it hillarious that your musing on ‘the ignorant’ includes ‘your’ twice. Downtick me for being a mean bastard, if you will.
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September 13, 2015 9:16pm
Paul Marsden

@itstricky (2,830 comments) says:
“But I find it hillarious that your musing on ‘the ignorant’ includes ‘your’ twice”

Obviously, grammar is not one of your strong points.
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September 13, 2015 9:21pm
itstricky

Obviously, grammar is not one of your strong points.

You’re funny.
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September 13, 2015 9:39pm
rouppe

We should change our flag because someone is an idiot?

How about these flags – there doesn’t seem to be an outcry for one of them to change:
The Netherlands vs Luxembourgh
Romania and Chad
Ireland and the Ivory Coast
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September 13, 2015 9:48pm
Rachael Membery

Which ever way it goes, Labour will be unable to revisit the subject. I think that the decision to look at changing the flag was more strategic than vanity project.
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September 13, 2015 10:07pm
tom hunter

I’m coming to this a bit late but I’d been waiting to put up the following YouTube video that my son found:
The Worst-Designed Thing You’ve Never Noticed | Roman Mars | TED Talks

Quite interesting. I thought the Chicago flag was everywhere because of civic pride, but after watching this I realise I've never seen the San Francisco flag.

So the question is – after watching this – how do our flag designs rate on all these factors?
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September 13, 2015 11:20pm
deadrightkev

Nick Willis wins the New York 5th Avenue mile.

Drapes NZ flag around him. He can tell the difference and it looked great.
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September 14, 2015 8:33am
cmm

It’s not just dumb sports reporters.

Some years back I attended a talk about the International Space Station at the old Wigram AFB. During this, the speaker from NASA officially handed over a New Zealand flag + plaque that has been on the ISS.

Great talk and ceremony. Only marred by the flag that they handed over was actually the Oz flag and not the NZ one.

I believe the correct flag that now stands at Wigram was actually a substitute bought at a gift shop at the airport, It was never really on the ISS.
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September 14, 2015 9:00am
Matthew Flannagan

I don’t know if this has been covered. But presumably England should change their flag as well. Look at Georgia’s flag in pool C.
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September 14, 2015 3:59pm
cairojoey

I don’t believe we need to change the flag. Just because the flag looks dull on a news paper doesn’t mean we have to change the flag. I must say Fiji’s flag is bright and pretty.
Apparently, The cost of holding two referendums and consulting on a change of flag has been estimated to be just under $26 million. Cabinet has now agreed on the details of the flag referendum process with every political party invited to take part.The Government wants to hold two votes on whether to change the flag, the first next year will invite the public to choose a preferred new design.
The winner of that vote will then go into a run off with the current flag in 2016.

This money can be used elsewhere, for example the housing crisis big cities are facing around New Zealand. From one of the sources recently, the Taxpayers have to pay around $25 million even if the flag changes. I don’t really see the point of this issue, it is somewhat confusing. where is this money going ?? If so, this money does need to used wisely. I don’t see a point of the flag changing, what difference of this country ??There are pros and cons to it. I just consider if the money is being used, it should be used towards something useful and much more important than flags.
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September 14, 2015 9:09pm
cairojoey

@cmm Yes, the two flags (Australia and New Zealand) are very similar and it causes confusion for people on the other side of the world but as a country, we should be working on the things that matter the most first … 26 million is rather larger for a country as small as New Zealand to be wasted on a new flag design. We have other major issues that should have a higher priority at the moment, why shouldn’t the money be spent on that? Why should we change something that is not a priority? Is the flag more important than feeding the children stuck in the vicious poverty cycle? What does that really tell about us as a country?
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September 20, 2015 1:32pm

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