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September 6, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 6 September 2015

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General Debate

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Manolo

big bruv has been spotted in K Road proudly wearing a Wallaby jersey. Go the ABs!
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September 6, 2015 2:35pm
Nookin

Probably one of these ones, Manolo

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/new-zealand-flag-embroidered-on-wallabies-jersey-q08746
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September 6, 2015 2:40pm
cricko

Poland, Lithuania and Slovakia
only accept Christian refugees from the middle east on the grounds that it is inevitable that
muslim refugees always lead to a parallel, hostile parasitic society. ( and who can deny that self evident fact ?)
The leftwing drones that run the EU are gobsmacked at their temerity.

If New Zealand is to take in more refugees from the middle east we should adopt the same
policy.
We could increase our humanitarian effort that way without endangering our future, only thing
is, that would not be politically correct or acceptable to our own myopic lefties. Or those unable
to think for themselves who are already happy to cede our sovereignty to the UN.
(fernglas @ 12.43 being an example.)

New Zealand needs more muslims like we need a hole in our heads.
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September 6, 2015 3:04pm
Longknives

“Taranaki resident Urs Signer started a Facebook event on Wednesday night called “Open homes – open borders – we will host a refugee – Aotearoa”.”

That name sounds rather familiar…How the heck is he still in NZ??
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September 6, 2015 3:21pm
Scott Chris

Wynne Gray.

Maybe, but Chris “the rat” Rattue bugs me the most. He writes quite well but goes out of his way to make brash, trollish proclamations which are designed to be provocative but simply lack substance.
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September 6, 2015 3:24pm
Scott Chris

Oh and the award for the most precious sports journalist goes to Joseph “don’t call me Joe” Romanos in my oh so humble opinion. Most astute sports journo? Graeme Hill, or at least he used to be – he doesn’t really do sport now.
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September 6, 2015 3:32pm
minus

Longknives – from the same article mentioning Urs Signer, “Open homes – open borders – we will host a refugee – Aotearoa” …

Rachael Goldsmith, who lives in Invercargill, is one of those to offer help.
“I’ve got two spare beds, all the clothing any woman and child would need, and plenty of room out the back yard for a moveable cabin,” she wrote. “I don’t have much, but I don’t care, because they have nothing and nowhere. I’ll happily take a family.”

This woman is apparently Southland’s Greens candidate and LGBT[etc] rights campaigner
… just the person Muslims seem to think should be thrown from tall buildings
What are these people really trying to do?
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September 6, 2015 3:34pm
wellygirl

I have just written to my MP (Nat) to ask for him to urge his colleagues to deny leave to Labour for their bill on Tuesday, and I listed all of my reasons in a rational manner, mostly my concerns about the lack of thought into yet another hastily put together bill by Labour, the lack of policy by Labour to ensure that those coming will not import extremist ideas, and the caving in to the manipulation of the media. I stated that I fully support a thorough review and said that I hope the Govt shows courage and does not cave into the blatant emotional manipulation.

The future security of NZ should be the number one priority of the Govt, not getting on the latest media bandwagon.
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September 6, 2015 3:40pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Longknives 3:21

That name sounds rather familiar…How the heck is he still in NZ??

He served his home-detention for using & possessing illegal weapons.

As long as he stayed out of trouble for the next 5 years he was told that his deportation would be suspended.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/9535450/Activists-deportation-suspended
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September 6, 2015 3:49pm
Kimbo

@ Scott Chris

…Chris “the rat” Rattue bugs me the most. He writes quite well but goes out of his way to make brash, trollish proclamations which are designed to be provocative…

Umm, that is actually a point of merit for Rattue, in my humble estimation. Mainly because I don’t necessarily agree that his writings

simply lack substance.

But each to his or her own…
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September 6, 2015 4:04pm
Scott Chris

But each to his or her own…

Hmm, it’s easy to say “McCaw is too old” or “Shaun Johnston is over-rated” or “SBW can’t play rugby” and back it up those claims with a few factoids, but are the claims actually true? No. He’s just recycling facile memes.
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September 6, 2015 4:09pm
Kimbo

@ Scott Chris

the most precious sports journalist goes to Joseph “don’t call me Joe” Romanos in my oh so humble opinion

Hmm. I’m inclined to agree with you.

A good journo earlier in his career, and outspoken to, which is a bit of a rarity in New Zealand.

But now takes his opinions far too seriously…
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September 6, 2015 4:10pm
Keeping Stock

I wonder if the Urs Signer who wants to open his home to refuges is the same Urs Signer mentioned here:

Maori activist Emily Bailey is unrepentant about her extraordinary escapades with the Urewera 17 and is intent on proving what she is convinced is her “innocence”.

Speaking to NBR ONLINE from Parihaka in Taranaki, where she is serving nine months’ home detention for a firearms offence, Bailey says the only regret she has is “what happened afterwards”.

Without going into detail or offering any plausible explanation of what was going on in the Ureweras that so concerned the police, she claimed the police “made up a lot of things and there’s still a lot of misunderstanding about what was happening there”.

Much of the so-called misunderstanding has been fomented by blinkered fellow travellers bent on putting an “innocent” spin on a serious situation involving guns, Molotov cocktails and attack training.

“It was just a wananga – we were invited to go there and learn different skills, and the use of guns was part of it.”

Bailey silent on gun use

She would not say anything about guns and why she needed to use them.

“Political korero was also part of it and there were never any plans to hurt anyone or anything.”

This clearly did not impress the Court of Appeal, which this week declined to overturn her conviction and sentence, along with those of her co-offenders, for serious firearms crime.

Now she and her Swiss partner, Urs Signer, who is also serving home detention for a similar offence, are planning to lodge an appeal with the Supreme Court.

Worried Signer may be deported

Bailey says their biggest worry is that Signer may be deported back to his native Switzerland.

Without acknowledging the seriousness of their crime, Bailey says: “That’s why we’re fighting so hard.”

If Signer is deported she says she and their young son may have trouble joining him there because of her firearms conviction.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/convicted-urewera-criminals-remain-unrepentant-rv-131679

It’s probably just a coincidence. I’m sure there are dozens of bleeding-heart liberals named Urs Signer living in Taranaki…
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September 6, 2015 4:42pm
starboard

It is a breath of fresh air getting away from NZ for a while. NZ’ers can be so inward looking and appear to have a Napoleonic complex ( refer scottchris , gwiff ) at times. We seem to think we are the only ones on the planet. Walking around Bangkok really makes you realise how insignificant we are as small country, a wart on the arse of a great big planet. But I still love the place and wouldn’t live anywhere else. Was thinking about the loud mouthed point scoring pollys we have back home while walking along Sukhumvit Rd this morning , now if they want to see real poverty..here’s the place to see it. I can tell you , with hand on heart 100% , we do not have poverty in NZ, so when the loud mouth point scouring numptys try that one on..just pour scorn on them for they are ignorant and wrong.
Bangkok just blows my mind , this is my 15th trip to Thailand , it is such an invigorating place..the different cultures , the continual smiles , even from beggars with no arms and legs ( I make a point of giving to genuine beggars) the tropical smells , the heat , the street food and the stunningly, stunningly beautiful and elegant Thai woman, my God are they spectacular ! The place pumps and pumps..never stops.

Off to Phuket tomorrow for a month , picking up a chopper and heading for the Islands of Ko Samui , Ko Phangan and Ko Lanta on a Starboard road trip.

Have a good night all.
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September 6, 2015 4:50pm
wellygirl

Hmmm… so someone downtick my post about writing to my MP, does that mean someone on KB does not think the security of NZ and NZers should be the top priority of the Govt? Why not?

All NZers should have the security and safety of our fellow citizens and of our country as our first priority, and a hastily put together Bill to increase refugees in response to media manipulation with no thought about potential risks, or any policy to mitigate those risks, or any thought of the impact on the country as a whole, is not the way to do it.

A thorough review of the process, and careful consideration, and good policies to protect NZ and NZers is how we should be addressing this.

I wonder what the reaction of those that want this ill thought out bill by Labour to be passed would be if someone with extremist ideas comes in as a refugee and then conducts an attack within NZ? They will be complaining that the Govt didn’t protect us. Media manipulation and emotional outbursts from activists is not how we should be managing the country.
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September 6, 2015 5:11pm
starboard

Dont worry Welly..Team Wank downtickers are in action , they cant help themselves. Gawd Id hate to be like any of ’em.
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September 6, 2015 5:21pm
Nostradamus

This is a disturbing development:

The head of a panel that selects Auckland Council’s Maori advisers threatened councillors with personal legal action over a vote to release ratepayer money.

Tame Te Rangi, the chairman of the Independent Maori Statutory Board’s selection panel, made the threat in a letter to Auckland Council’s chief executive, Stephen Town, on July 24.

The Herald on Sunday obtained a copy of the letter, which states if Auckland Council didn’t release the funding, he would initiate “legal proceedings against Auckland Council and each member of the Governing Body in their personal capacity”.

The vote went ahead and the money — which the selection panel wants to use for a High Court case — was approved.

Translation: the threat (give us lots of ratepayer money or we’ll sue) worked.

When contacted by the Herald on Sunday, Te Rangi initially denied the personal legal threats, saying his intention was to “talk to the council”.

When the letter was read back to him he said: “I’ve got no further comment to make, the matter has been addressed and has been closed as far as I’m concerned.”

Translation: “no further comment to make” because he was caught out.

The Independent Maori Statutory Board was formed in 2010 in the aftermath of then Local Government Minister Rodney Hide’s rejection of separate Maori seats for the new-look Auckland Council. It was created to advise the council on issues of Maori interest and significance.

The board’s selection panel is a group of mana whenua representatives, whose function is to appoint nine members to the board every three years.

So:

1. A selection panel (mana whenua representatives) appoints nine members to the Independent Maori Statutory Board every three years.
2. The nine board members advise the council on issues of Maori interest and significance.

Total cost to ratepayers: nine board members + selection panel = ?
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September 6, 2015 5:27pm
stigie

Stay safe Starboard.

Edit:- Why should i give a fuck ?
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September 6, 2015 5:28pm
Mike

Can someone provide the link to the source that shows that the majority of refugees are young men? This statement is being accepted as fact but i couldn’t find any information that backs this up. It seems like over half of them are small children.
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September 6, 2015 5:33pm
nasska

….“legal proceedings against Auckland Council and each member of the Governing Body in their personal capacity”…..

That’s a new one……the tribe’s very own Taniwha must be on holiday & unable to intervene.
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September 6, 2015 5:33pm
nasska

“Did you have a good holiday Starboard?”

“Amazing. Check out these photos of us at the nudist beach.”

“I love your Thai girlfriend, she looks tiny next to you.”

“Thanks but to be fair, she had just been swimming.”
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September 6, 2015 5:34pm
starboard

Thanks Stiffy..its lunchtime over here and I’m sitting on the 35th floor of Above 11 looking over Bangers eating from the best Indian buffet in town. Keeping an eye on KB for a bit until I return back to my condo for an afternoon siesta..wish you were here…ppfftt
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September 6, 2015 5:40pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Nostradamus 5:27

The Publicwatchdog is sure to have this one on her To Do List.
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September 6, 2015 6:09pm
Fletch

Isn’t this just ****ed?
In China, if a motorist hits a pedestrian, they are more likely to back up and run them over a couple more times to make sure they are dead. Why? Because if they kill someone, the likely penalty is to pay the family between $30,000 and $50,000, but if they cripple someone, they have to pay to look after them the rest of their life, which could be in the millions.

In April, a BMW racing through a fruit market in Foshan in China’s Guangdong province knocked down a 2-year-old girl and rolled over her head.
As the girl’s grandmother shouted, “Stop! You’ve hit a child!” the BMW’s driver paused, then switched into reverse and backed up over the girl.

The woman at the wheel drove forward once more, crushing the girl for a third time.

When she finally got out from the BMW, the unlicensed driver immediately offered the horrified family a deal: “Don’t say that I was driving the car,” she said. “Say it was my husband. We can give you money.”

And yet not only is it true — it’s fairly common; security cameras have regularly captured drivers driving back and forth on top of victims to make sure that they are dead. The Chinese language even has an adage for the phenomenon: “It is better to hit to kill than to hit and injure.”

Most people agree that the hit-to-kill phenomenon stems at least in part from perverse laws on victim compensation. In China, the compensation for killing a victim in a traffic accident is relatively small — amounts typically range from $30,000 to $50,000 — and once payment is made, the matter is over. By contrast, paying for lifetime care for a disabled survivor can run into the millions.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-drivers-kill-pedestrians-intentionally-2015-9?IR=T
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September 6, 2015 6:31pm
nasska

Ad:

Islamic Marriage Course. 22-24 September. Book today, and get a free Barbie Fairytale Playset for your wife.
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September 6, 2015 6:35pm
Reid

2. The nine board members advise the council on issues of Maori interest and significance.

Total cost to ratepayers: nine board members + selection panel = ?

Thanks for this heads up Nosty.

I’m confident our alert Fourth Estate watchdogs will prick up their ears and hang around this like the extremely well trained hungry dobermans in James Bond where all the evil one needed to do was snap his fingers and they would, by implication, pounce upon the committee and rodger them roughly if they even stepped a milli-fraction out of line, those bastards.

We’re all looking forward to many many stories appearing following this complete and utter rort and ending it immediately, forever and ever.

Let’s all hope and expect that happens on Monday, or Tuesday at the very latest.
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September 6, 2015 6:40pm
itstricky

this is my 15th trip to Thailand…

I see…
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September 6, 2015 6:41pm
Rowan

I don’t hold out any hope that this one will ever be “solved”, who knows what happened to Scott that day, and the police case against their only suspect is so weak that he should have never been charged, the sole “evidence” being that EM was an arsehole, but that doesn’t make him a killer and it is very unlikely that he was involved in any way!

http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/71781768/Kylee-Guy-calls-off-hunt-for-Scotts-killer
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September 6, 2015 6:43pm
Rowan

A very good response from Manalo earlier today to the demented dentist aka Denny dunces daily ramblings!
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September 6, 2015 6:47pm
starboard

Get ya mind out of the gutter itsdrippy…I own a condo here
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September 6, 2015 6:48pm
mikenmild

dirty harry’s been very quiet since you’ve been away, starboard.
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September 6, 2015 6:50pm
Manolo

@starboard: Do not forget the liquid extra-strong antibiotic with the beer, mate.
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September 6, 2015 6:51pm
Reid

Get ya mind out of the gutter itsdrippy…I own a condo here

Lefties don’t like sunlight starboard, it gives them a headache.

The labs working on it but no answers as yet. Everytime we run the experiment this amazing spacetime vortex appears and we have to shut it down.

Very frustrating, but what would you rather? An end to spacetime or an answer to why lefties do what they do?
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September 6, 2015 6:54pm
Manolo

Will this socialist David beat the Goliath Queen? http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/05/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-nervous/index.html

“Don’t tell anybody. I think what they know is that four months ago, when I entered this race, if you look at the polls, I was in 3 to 4%. Vast majority of the American people didn’t know who Bernie Sanders was, they didn’t know what my ideas were, and in last few months, we have amassed huge amounts of enthusiasm and huge amounts of energy,” Sanders said.

“So obviously, I think the secretary’s people are getting nervous about the kind of energy and enthusiasm our campaign is bringing forth.”
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September 6, 2015 6:59pm
starboard

Itsdrippy cant help it Reid..no friends , no wife , has to sit at the computer all day naked , getting his daily fix of human contact. Poor soul..I actually feel sorry for him.
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September 6, 2015 7:06pm
Manolo

Forget about the economy, what will be the political consequences of this invasion for Angela Merkel? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34166882

Up to 10,000 arrived at the border, according to the Austrian authorities, who have said they do not plan to limit the numbers crossing into the country.
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September 6, 2015 7:06pm
Reid

<Itsdrippy cant help it Reid..no friends , no wife , has to sit at the computer all day naked , getting his daily fix of human contact. Poor soul..I actually feel sorry for him.

So do I but the question is starboard…

…how do you know he’s naked?
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September 6, 2015 7:11pm
starboard

Will do Manolo..off to have some fun ..ciao xx

http://www.bangkok-nightlife-guide.com/freelancer-pickup-bars/beer-garden-near-nana/
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September 6, 2015 7:11pm
starboard

Scottchris told me Reid
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September 6, 2015 7:12pm
wiseowl

nostrodamus@5.27
Very disturbing indeed.
Also disturbing is the 10 member iwi committee slipped through by this government that has authority to make decisions on resource consents in the Hawkes Bay region.

Unelected ,yes unelected this group sanctioned by Finlayson and supported by the National government as a race based appointed bunch will be throwing their weight around on issues and trying their best to gain dividends from consent applicants especially concerning water.

Absolutely disgusting situation.
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September 6, 2015 7:14pm
nasska

Just watch out for maidens with Adam’s apples Starboard. 🙂
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September 6, 2015 7:14pm
cricko

Where are the squeals of indignation

from the lefties who post on this site when I point out the eminently common sense position on muslim
refugees that Poland, Lithuania and Slovakia take ? (see my effort @ 3.04)

These lefties are quiet as a mouse, why ?

Because they cannot offer any common sense argument to rebutt the stance taken by these countries.

If I have got that wrong, then we would hear from them.

Prove me wrong.
Anyone ?
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September 6, 2015 7:14pm
Reid

Isn’t it inconvenient how we used to have a standard: “the mind boggles” to explain all these random thoughts but now with social media we’re not only forced to explain what the hell we were talking about but pretend we actually give a shit about what other people who hear it might think, as well.

It’s not fair.
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September 6, 2015 7:15pm
Manolo

Ciao carissimo. Godetevi Bangkok e le sue delizie carnali.
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September 6, 2015 7:16pm
cricko

New Zealand needs more muslims from the middle east like we need a hole in our heads.

If you do not agree with that statement………….. then why ? (Not a single punter game to step up and address that ?

Put it another way, which muslim apologist can explain why muslim immigrants would be good for New Zealand ?

Those folks would be able to complete this sentence……………

“New Zealand needs more muslim refugees from the middle east because …..”

Why would we want to import muslim refugees from the middle east when we can fufill our humanitarian obligation by importing any other class of refugee except muslims ?
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September 6, 2015 7:30pm
mikenmild

More Muslims; less crickos. That would work just fine.
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September 6, 2015 7:37pm
nasska

….”“New Zealand needs more muslim refugees from the middle east because …..”….

…..we’re desperately short of misogynistic, arrogant, aggressive, workshy people who have no interest in integrating into NZ society.

Nah….that doesn’t sound right!
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September 6, 2015 7:37pm
dad4justice

You are pathetic mouldymike.
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September 6, 2015 7:38pm
mikenmild

Kia ora, D4J. Heading over to the UK to watch your best mate Richie in the RWC?
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September 6, 2015 7:43pm
Mike

The problem is that you argue from emotion and anecdotes. A prime example of the ignorance is that without researched assumption that the majority of the refugees are “fighting age men”. When pressed for something to back this up, no one presented anything. I don’t know if this is just laziness or inability to source and comprehend statistical information. If you look at the numbers, even with slight increase in the intake will do very little to change the overall demographic composition of the country. Muslims are just like any other people, there are good ones, bad ones and everything in between.

Its basic human decency to help those in need and if you find yourself asking “what can they do for me” then you should probably reconsider your worldview. Regardless, there is no evidence that refugees are a net drain economically, and many of those fleeing the conflict are actually people who former professionals who can integrate fairly easily.

Many here view the religion itself as the source of all the problems that are happening in that region. These people overlook the massive influence that culture, politics and economics have. Indonesia has a very large muslim population (200+ million) and im guessing that few of you would equate that place with Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. Why is that?

If you view the religion itself as the source of all the issues, then what is stopping you from advocating for a ban on practicing it in New Zealand? You could lobby your MP to set up a Ministry that is tasked with monitoring what people are thinking and introduce legislation which criminalizes thinking in certain ways or believing in certain things.
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September 6, 2015 7:44pm
stigie

Whats Peter up to these days Dad, words going around you know all his movements ?
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September 6, 2015 7:49pm
cricko

Anyone care to take up the challenge I issued @ 7.30 ?

Please do not be just a weak anonymous down ticker.

If you do not agree, then try and develop the cojones to tell us why.

We hold our breath, waiting for any response.

Surely the last paragraph of my 7.30 effort is unambiguous.

Who can addrees it in the same manner.

My guess is, no one.
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September 6, 2015 7:51pm
starboard

Go and indulge in some sexual intercourse MM..with a female..it will do wonders for you.
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September 6, 2015 7:53pm
wiseowl

Well you would be safe Mike.
You don’t think.
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September 6, 2015 7:54pm
EAD

The hypocrisy of the chosen ones knows no bounds:

http://davidduke.com/zio-jewish-supremacist-seeks-extermination-of-austria-and-europe/

“This Jewish hypocrite advocates the genocide of Austria and Europe, yet Israel must be a “Jewish State dedicated to Jews. He praises the Jewish-only immigration into Israel, but promotes the extermination of the European people and culture with massive immigration

He didn’t point out that Israel will not allow a marriage to be performed between a Jew and the “inferior goyim” (non-Jews) and that Israel is segregated society in schools, neigborhoods and settlements — and even highways!.

He said that Austria needed the smiles of Syrian children, but didn’t point out that Israel, which borders Syria, has not accepted any of the Syrian refugees who are their next-door neighbors.
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September 6, 2015 7:57pm
nasska

Mike

It is true that most of the negatives about Muslims are cultural rather than religious. What you are totally blind to is the fact that Islam reinforces the behaviour & therefore the culture will not change.

It matters zilch that the Quran & the associated teachings can be viewed differently…..the religious leaders are drawn from the same tribe, group or nation as those of their flock.

Under a system like that meaningful change & assimilation is impossible.
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September 6, 2015 7:59pm
starboard

Hey MM..try a Dirty Sanchez while you’re at it..they’re always fun
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September 6, 2015 8:02pm
mikenmild

Go and indulge in some sexual intercourse..with a female..it will do wonders for you.

starboard engaged in some cute psychological projection.
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September 6, 2015 8:02pm
starboard

No MM..I believe that’s your issue..you are sans sex with the opposite variety , change codes and give it a whack ( excuse the pun )
I’m sure you’ll be a different person..not so uptight. Just lookin out for ya bud.
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September 6, 2015 8:06pm
mikenmild

Is that what happened to you after your doctor friend ‘cured’ you?
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September 6, 2015 8:08pm
starboard

Hey, just tryin to help a troubled soul..
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September 6, 2015 8:12pm
cricko

nasska

why waste your effort trying to engage with mikenmild or others of his admiriarti ?
Check out the thumb downers to my effort @ 7.51

Keen to thumb down, unable to mount an argument.
( if I have that wrong, then where are they arguing the toss ?)

Not one of them has the guts or ability to address the question.
Typical.
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September 6, 2015 8:13pm
Nostradamus

Mikenmild:

Dennis Horne might be generous enough to give D4J a lift to the Rugby World Cup – hopefully without a repeat of this harrowing take-off experience.
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September 6, 2015 8:23pm
nasska

Dad will probably be safe Nostra. I understand that Dennis has reconfigured his plane using new technology. 🙂

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4ooz69w24s0l2q/Dennis%201.jpg?dl=0
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September 6, 2015 8:27pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Mike 5.33pm; 7:44pm

It takes time to do research and the old man needs his Father’s Day roast chook cooked nicely…

so here’s some stuff to go on with…
VoA, 2nd Sept … one third of migrants arriving in Macedonia are females & children. (so twothirds must be males)
http://www.voanews.com/content/increasing-numbers-of-refugee-women-children-heading-for-europe/2941974.html

Welsh MP David Davies states majority of migrants arriving in europe are young men
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/european-migrant-crisis-most-refugees-9980670

Love to linger on and do more research for you, but there’s dishes to do, scones to bake, etc, etc
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September 6, 2015 8:29pm
Scott Chris

Well, waddaya know Starbore is back and talking about bum sex again.

Aren’t you supposed to be pretending to be in Bangkok gimp?
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September 6, 2015 8:49pm
cricko

Is there even just one correspondent with the ability to address the questionthat I posed in the
last paragraph @ 7.30 or even @ 7.51 or even 8.13 ?

Seems not even one taker.

Now there is a suprise.
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September 6, 2015 8:51pm
Scott Chris

Oh God he’s got his mate Dad4restraining orders along for the ride. What joy.
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September 6, 2015 8:52pm
Scott Chris

nasska (14,083 comments) says:
September 6th, 2015 at 7:14 pm
Just ~~watch~~ be on the look out for maidens with Adam’s apples Starboard. 🙂

FIFY
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September 6, 2015 8:54pm
wellygirl

Mike @ 7.44pm

“The problem is that you argue from emotion and anecdotes.”

I will concede part of my argument is from emotion, the emotion I feel being harassed and propositioned in the street from a group of young muslim men I don’t know, the emotion of the dread I feel when seeing a group of young North African and Middle Eastern men down the street watching me, the emotion I feel that I am accused of being racist and islamaphobic when I express my fears about these men and what life will be like for women in NZ if more of them come in and don’t assimilate into our society. So, not anecdotes, emotion yes, but based on experience.

“A prime example of the ignorance is that without researched assumption that the majority of the refugees are “fighting age men”.”

The photographic evidence in the media shows the majority of the migrants in Europe appear to be men from late teens through to 30’s & 40’s, or do you think the images are wrong?

“Many here view the religion itself as the source of all the problems that are happening in that region. These people overlook the massive influence that culture, politics and economics have. Indonesia has a very large muslim population (200+ million) and im guessing that few of you would equate that place with Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. Why is that?”

The Indonesians are not migrating in mass numbers, they do not have extremists groups that have stated an intent to infiltrate the west by pretending to be refugees, it appears that the form of islam practiced there by the majority is not in strict adherence to the koran like many from North Africa and the Middle East preach.

“If you view the religion itself as the source of all the issues, then what is stopping you from advocating for a ban on practicing it in New Zealand?”

It is not the religion as such, it is the extreme form of the religion that seems to be prevalent in countries that advocate or practice Sharia Law, or have many extremists.
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September 6, 2015 8:55pm
cricko

And Scott Chris…..

reduces the discussion down to a point to where he is comfortable.

See his “contribution” @ 8.49

Typical.
Even his mates must cringe with embarrassment when they read that risible effort.
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September 6, 2015 8:59pm
wellygirl

Starboard @ 5.21pm

Indeed.

I would like to challenge them to explain why they disagree with a considered review and policy with regards to refugee intake to ensure that NZ is kept safe. Why is it that these people who believe that we should be taking refugees willy nilly immediately are so casual about NZ security and the safety of our people? I don’t understand how the security and safety of NZ should be pushed aside for a hastily put together bill to bring more people into our country potentially without proper checks.
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September 6, 2015 8:59pm
Reid

Are these really the most powerful people in the world? Or is there a shadowy group behind them, pulling their strings and exerting hidden pressures? According to Forbes magazine, 25-year-old singer Taylor Swift is the 64th most powerful person on the planet, not far behind the Queen of England. This is just not believable. So the question we need to ask ourselves is: Who are the puppet masters and who are the puppets?

Having read through this disturbing article, my mind is filled with foreboding. I begin to suspect that we were on the edge of an abyss. That there is little we can do reverse the Gadarene rush to the grim dystopia that our elite ruling classes appear to be preparing for us…

…Like grunting swine, we are being led to the slaughterhouse.

Well, some of you are, anyway. Perhaps if you didn’t grunt quite so much things might be different for you…

http://www.landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/naming-names-your-real-government.html
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September 6, 2015 9:05pm
Viking2

Manolo (17,326 comments) says:
September 6th, 2015 at 7:06 pm

Forget about the economy, what will be the political consequences of this invasion for Angela Merkel? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34166882

Up to 10,000 arrived at the border, according to the Austrian authorities, who have said they do not plan to limit the numbers crossing into the country.

===========================
Well property owners in many small towns will be pleased. Germany is suffering from old age and there is a growing list of towns with lots of empty unsold houses. Other parts of the EC are the same, as is Japan.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/demographic-shift-in-germany-leaves-thousands-of-empty-homes-a-866298.html
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September 6, 2015 9:06pm
Mike

@ wellygirl

Thanks for your response. I am sorry to hear of your experiences however these are in fact anecdotes and relying on these is not a good way to analyze information. The reality is that given the enormously large number of people who fit the “Muslims” category, it is extremely unlikely that your encounter would be representative of the entire pool. Indeed there are so many variations possible that the notion of a “one size fits all” profile is extremely problematic. Often we remember negative experiences, for example I am more likely to remember an incident where i was attacked or harassed than an incident where everything went as it was supposed to go.

Looking at one single photo and forming an opinion about the demographics in total is similarly problematic as it is again not representative of the entire pool. This is an extremely small snapshot with information of limited value. It is far more useful to look at data that tracks larger numbers, for example an analysis of 4 million refugees registered in various governments in that region shows that 21% are of “fighting age” (likely even smaller as this figure represents a wide age range of 18-59). Regardless, we can control our policy to place higher weighting on women and children (rather than arguing for a blanket refusal altogether).

Your concluding remarks indicate that you are aware that Islam itself is not the problem, rather it is a complex interaction between religion, economics, politics and culture. This is why Indonesia isn’t a perpetual wreck (as would be the case if Islam itself was the problem) despite holding one of the largest Muslim populations in the world. My personal opinion is that the strict interpretations we see in the Gulf regions are more about preserving the rule of the monarchy by keeping the masses indoctrinated than about anything intrinsic to the doctrine itself. It is notable that in contrast to the populations residing in the Gulf states, Syrians are quite secular (indeed this is a point of tension between their leader and the leaders of more theocratic governments in the region).

http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php
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September 6, 2015 9:12pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Mike
I provided you with UNICEF’s breakdown of women & children % of migrants into Macedonia.

The statistics unhcr – quality are not yet available for the migrants currently arriving in Europe…. For goodness sake, the folks haven’t been processed yet . But anyone can see that there are loads of young men arriving if you tune into BBc news, CNN, CNTV, Al Jazeera, etc.
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September 6, 2015 9:23pm
starboard

Where was bum sex mentioned grottchris? Thats right, nowhere until you mentioned it. Homo gayboy..run along and play hide the sausage with your boyfriend..there’s a good downticking faggot.
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September 6, 2015 9:27pm
cricko

Well, I must retire for tonight.

Scott Chris @ 8.49….. is onto his pet subject…bum sex
and he seems to have many keen to engage with him on that subject…

Good luck to you girls.

Have a nice evening.

Bum sex seems to be a riveting subject for SC and his deviant mates but it doesn’t do it for me.

Still, good luck to you SC and your mates.

G.nite to you and good luck to your sad families.

(you sad sicko.)
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September 6, 2015 9:28pm
Nostalgia-NZ

There’s at least 2 arguments about the number of young men said to be among the refugees, one is that they are the most likely to be massacred. It’s a tactic as old as time, weeding out the strong or potential strong in order to control those that are less of a threat.
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September 6, 2015 9:52pm
Scott Chris

Haha, fuck off Starbore you snivelling little liar.

Problem with you is you’re so thick you just can’t grasp how transparent and obvious your insecure boasts and fibs are.

Face it. You’re a big zero. You have nothing, you are nothing, you’re of no worth to anyone. You’re a fucking mill-stone.

Why don’t you do us all a big favour and ……

Same applies to you too Beryl/Criko. And Dad4restraint orders.

Fucking losers. Bah.
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September 6, 2015 10:06pm
cricko

And seeing that it’s late in the evening and the kids have gone to bed…

Are
there any male homosexual anywhere that would decline to take a pill if that pill could convert them
to be straight (normal) if it was possible ?

Are there any gay males who would choose to stay faggots if they had the option ?

Are there any gay males that are truly glad that they were born a faggot ?

Whaddo you reckon Scott Chris ?
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September 6, 2015 10:07pm
Scott Chris

Fuck off Beryl. That’s the last couple of sentences I’ll ever waste on the likes of you.
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September 6, 2015 10:17pm
stigie

*Hic*
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September 6, 2015 10:19pm
Nostradamus

This will be of great interest to Cricko (who seems to enjoy late-night X-rated conversations).

Lonely life of Roberto Esquivel Cabrera, the man with the world’s longest penis

Whaddo you reckon Cricko?
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September 6, 2015 10:22pm
cricko

OK
too many questions for too many faggots. Lets cut to the chase.

Are there any gay males reading this exchange that, if they had the option of taking a pill that would convert them back to being heterosexual would decline to take that option ?

If there are any could they please complete the sentence….

“I love being a homosexual male and I wouldn’t change, even if I had that option because ………”
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September 6, 2015 10:26pm
starboard

Fuck you grottchris you namby fuck..youre a soft dick nancy boy and ya mamas an ugly old pig

I know where you live…I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE
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September 6, 2015 10:27pm
cricko

No starboard, that’s wrong…I do not want to get into invective.

However…lets keep it simple. So…..

Who would not agree with the statement, “I love being a homosexual male and I wouldn’t change even if I had that option because ………

Is there anyone reading this that can address that simple question ?

OK go for it…………and your answer is………………..?
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September 6, 2015 10:41pm
stigie

Oh deary me Starboard, i thought you was surrounded by ladies rather than having a bitch on Kiwiblog ?
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September 6, 2015 10:43pm
Scott Chris

I know where you live…I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE

Heh, sure you do liar. Come on over, I gotta couple of barrels waitin’ for ya! 😉
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September 6, 2015 10:57pm
cricko

Forget the dramatic crap …..Scott Chris..

“I love being a homosexual male because…………”
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September 6, 2015 11:01pm
Nostradamus

Maybe Cricko (instead of asking the same boring question over and over) should swallow the pink pill to turn himself gay then get Starboard’s good doctor to cure him.

One imagines that, as psychotropic experiences go, that’d have to be far more rewarding than the mundane daily grind of trawling through Craigs List ads!
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September 6, 2015 11:11pm
stigie

Nostra:- Might have to get Starboard to give us a run down on the good Doctor and his cure for turning homos straight.

Chances are if Cricko could not be cured, a permanent name change would be in order….now what would that be ?
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September 6, 2015 11:28pm
wellygirl

@Mike,

My experiences are only anecdotes to you, to me they are experiences, so therefore I am basing my opinion on experience NOT anecdotes. These are experiences I have had not just in NZ, but in other countries with muslim immigration, and expat communities, it is not a small number. Sometimes a ‘one size fits all’ profile is needed, and we need to seriously look at the attitudes of these men and whether we want them importing them into NZ, because the way I see it we run the risk of having situations similar to what happened in Rotherham, not on the same scale, but certainly the same lack of respect and care for the women and girls in our community. I really don’t like pulling out the ‘you can’t understand because you are a man’ argument, but your seemingly brushing off of my very real concerns as just remembering a negative experience is arrogant and patronising, and to be honest you cannot understand what this is like. I am a petite woman, anyone over 5’5″ is tall to me, these young men top 5’10 or taller, do you know what it is like to be surrounded by 5 or 6 men so much bigger than you, having them proposition you, having them ignore you when you ask to pass? You don’t and you can’t know how it makes you feel, your comments not only belittle my experiences, make light of some very real concerns but are also patronising. And quite frankly if you cannot see that these men could pose issues in NZ then you are either very insular in your world, or very naive.

It was more than one image Mike, it has been months of coverage of the migrants in Europe, it is only in the last couple of weeks women and children have been shown in images. Perhaps if you looked outside NZ at what is happening in the world, and stopped relying on the whims of Stuff and NZ Herald you will have seen what much of the rest of the world has been reporting on.

Syrians in general might be secular, but that does not mean that those coming from Syria at the moment are secular. What don’t you understand of the fact that ISIS and other extremists are boasting about sending their fighters to the west as refugees, and that some of those coming into Europe and the west now are most likely these people, I don’t believe that they are in the numbers that ISIS claims, but it only takes one to behead someone in a shop, or on a street, or in a cafe. We have to ensure we do not get these men, and if that means that we only accept genuine christians from the region then that is what we must do.

It is sad that a group of extremists has made it harder for the rest, but that is the reality of the world today, and I am sorry, but the security of my country and NZers should always come first.
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September 6, 2015 11:37pm
cricko

Please try not to obsfucate the question …………….

If nostrokinupin ever could, and his bum buddy stigie could ever explain……..

“I love being a male homosexual and, judging by the last of my feral contributionsins”

Nostrodamist, then why are you so fixated on Craigslist ?

You sick puppy.
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September 7, 2015 12:13am
Nostradamus

Nostrodamist, then why are you so fixated on Craigslist ?

Well now, that’s interesting, because it was Cricko who first brought up Craigs List:

cricko (1,105 comments) says:
August 18th, 2015 at 5:59 pm

If you want to get a handle on how social media is contributing to the syphilis and aids epidemic among
New Zealands male homosexuals……..

Check out Craigs List personal ads for eg, say Auckland NZ any day, the content of those m/m personals would make any normal person puke.

In the old days a faggot had to wait for hours, sitting on a dunny next to his gloryhole in the gentlemans convienience untill a prospect turned up. (scuse the pun) or he had to scratch his advert on the back of the dunny door.

These days he puts his advert online and he can connect with his new mate in minutes.
They can meet, consumate their new love and go their separate ways before you can say, “Sick puppy.”

And then some of them go back home to their loving naive wife.
This is why the explosion of syphilis and aids gets into the straight community and is a concern to all of us.

Where have I got that wrong ?

*Hic!*
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September 7, 2015 12:31am
Nostradamus

cricko (1,105 comments) says:
August 20th, 2015 at 8:18 pm

By the way.

Here is a typical ad, picked at random from yesterdays personals.

https://auckland.craigslist.org/cas/5151329611.html

And people wonder why 1 in 12 NZ gay males are HIV positive and 1 in 20 are riddled
with full blown aids.

Why arn’t the facts in the above paragraph publicised widely in order that young naive gay prospects
know what they risk getting into ?

Clearly it’s you – not me – who’s “fixated” with Craigs List ads. Help is available for your obsesssion – you only need to reach out to Stigie!
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September 7, 2015 12:37am
cricko

Silly fool nostrodamus,

Thanks for re posting my observations regarding the socialist media.

Now, did you just prove for all to see that you are just an airhead or what ?
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September 7, 2015 12:43am
Nostradamus

My point just went >>> over your head >>> woosh!
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September 7, 2015 12:44am
Mike

@ wellygirl

I was not belittling your experiences and apologize that it came across this way. I am not making any value judgments on your experiences and am purely talking about logic which necessitates an emotionally disconnected observation of evidence. Implicit in what you are saying when you are recalling your experiences is that this behavior is representative of the whole (or a significant) body of the people you are talking about. Something like this can be verified by looking at conviction rates and data, but rational decision making requires us to resist logically fallacious, but more appealing methods of going off our own experiences and encounters with small numbers of the total sample (however nasty and traumatic these experiences were).

It’s ironic that you accuse me of being influenced by media bias, when it appears that you are quite reliant on media organizations to assist you in forming your opinions (for example you place a lot of weighting in the photographs you have seen). These photographs have no value as empirical evidence and are easy to manipulate (for example, a photo could be taken which makes it appear as if a certain demographic is prominent when it really isn’t). I am not saying that the photo’s you saw were manipulated, I am just demonstrating why counting the number of people you see on images that the mass media provide you is not a reliable way of measuring the demographics of the refugees.

I agree with you that we need careful screening and that the security of New Zealand citizens is always the first consideration.
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September 7, 2015 1:32am
wellygirl

Mike you may have apologised about how your comments came across, but your comments after are again quite patronising and arrogant, and do not convince me you are sincere in your apology.
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September 7, 2015 2:24am

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