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September 30, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 30 September 2015

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Manolo

A true beast: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3253107/Is-ISIS-commander-AMERICAN-jihadi-Yazidi-slave-reveals-beaten-held-captive-citizen-directs-attacks-keeps-vial-poison-kill-caught.html

A Yazidi slave girl has claimed the high-ranking ISIS commander who held her prisoner was a white American who directed the terror group’s attacks and received personal letters from its leader.

Nada, 19, told MailOnline that US citizen Abu Abdullah al-Amriki (the American), 23, boasted about how beautiful women from all over the world wanted to join him in Syria and that he always kept a vial of poison on him – in case he was captured in battle.
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September 30, 2015 8:04am
Lance

I see our Dear Penny is number 1 news item on the Hoorald

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=11521031
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September 30, 2015 8:08am
Paulus Gnome

‘Superstar Chris Brown should be let in because he can help reduce domestic violence in New Zealand, says Dame Tariana Turia, former Maori Party leader, Cabinet minister and long-time worker to reduce violence in homes.’

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11520830

What will the batshit crazy be looking for next? Advocating for Plunket or CYF to call Chris Kahui for advice on childcare because he managed to procreate again?

Brown is a role model how?

Once a basher, always a basher; our good Australian neighbours have rightly called this.
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September 30, 2015 8:12am
Manolo

Where is the infamous bard Dennis these days? Visiting Helen in New York maybe?
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September 30, 2015 8:12am
igm

Fairfax Filth once again showing their colours attacking, via editorial, Anne Tolley for conveying what we all want to hear. Ferals must be stopped producing ferals, and taxpayers must not be expected to continue paying for these leeches’ bedroom activities.
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September 30, 2015 8:15am
RightNow

Good on ya Penny. I back you over Auckland council.
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September 30, 2015 8:16am
Manolo

Say your prayers before the end of the world and financial Armaggedon hit us today, according to KB’s oracle EAD. 🙂
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September 30, 2015 8:18am
kowtow

The law is aimed at Muslim extremism.Non Muslims will suffer. Having imported them the enrichment the west receives is more repressive laws.Isn’t multiculturalism great?

How stupid are the ruing political elites?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11897355/Laws-against-extremism-risk-criminalising-us-all.html
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September 30, 2015 8:19am
nasska

If EAD ever predicts that the world won’t end, there’s gonna be a lot of people seriously shitting themselves.
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September 30, 2015 8:19am
Maggy Wassilieff

Instead of paying vast amounts of loot to the lawyers, Auckland City Council could have invited Penny up for a cup of tea and showed her the books revealing where all her rates money would go.
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September 30, 2015 8:21am
Tarquin North

I hear the maori king is talking about inviting the woman basher Chris Brown to stay with him. He must have one of those trucks with a sleeper cab. Should be cosy.
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September 30, 2015 8:22am
Manolo

@kowtow: Progressive stephieboy will violently disagree. For him and his ilk multiculturalism is bliss, because advances the cause of the left.
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September 30, 2015 8:23am
mikenmild

We could probably add a few more to this list:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_of_the_end_of_the_world
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September 30, 2015 8:23am
mandk

@ Paulus Gnome,

Wouldn’t it be nice if we could judge the man, not by the colour of his skin, but by the content of his character?
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September 30, 2015 8:26am
calendar girl

Why is Auckland Council unable to bring on its legal case for selling Ms Bright’s property to secure overdue rates? Is it a problem of Court delays, or simply the Mayor and his Council prevaricating?

This farce is now some 7 years old. It is a deliberate publicity stunt by an indulged individual for which ratepayers are incurring obscene costs. Can we please have a clear, public explanation from Messrs Brown and Town of their failure to bring this matter to an end?
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September 30, 2015 8:33am
mikenmild

According to this article, other singers who have had issues with domestic violence have been allowed entry to NZ:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/72542899/chris-brown-makes-a-case-on-twitter-for-his-australian-tour-to-go-ahead
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September 30, 2015 8:34am
Keeping Stock

@ Maggy – fear not; the Auckland Council has a plan. Once they seize Penny’s humble whare they will on-sell it for squillions to some Chinese property tycoon recommended by Duncan Garner who will bowl the house and build an apartment block. Not only will Auckland Council get the legal bill and rates arrears more than covered, they’ll make a handsome profit, and they will go some way towards solving Auckland’s housing shortage!
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September 30, 2015 8:35am
EAD

IMF today warns that any interest rate rise from all time lows will set of a “chain reaction” of corporate and sovereign defaults:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/118298936/World-set-for-emerging-market-mass-default-warns-IMF.html

Nice of you to get on board now IMF. I was warning of the same thing 9 months ago when you were telling the world that “the economic outlook was rosy for world growth”?

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2015/01/general_debate_20_january_2015.html#comment-1466240

“Here is my prediction Lance. Today is January 20th. In less than 9 months the world will have begun an economic crash greater than the one experience in 2008 of which their will be numerous sovereign defaults.“.

Of course if you know whose interests the IMF serves (clue: it’s not yours) and how they’re positioning themselves to be able to gain credibility as being able to have “seen it coming”, you should realise we are at about one minute to midnight before the debt as money system reaches its unavoidable mathematical conclusion

EAD
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September 30, 2015 8:36am
Yoza

mikenmild (15,949 comments) says:
September 30th, 2015 at 8:23 am

We could probably add a few more to this list:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_of_the_end_of_the_world

Just the asteroids:

2015: September 23rd (some references give a margin of September 18th to September 25th) Asteroid.[46]

2017 to 2113: Asteroids.[51]

2026: More asteroids.[52]

2035: Even more asteroids.[55]
2036: Yet more asteroids.[56]

2040: Still more asteroids.[58]
2041: March 35th (sic) Not another asteroid.[59]
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September 30, 2015 8:37am
mikenmild

Funnily enough, we are at far greater risk from an asteroid strike than any catastrophe that Reid and EAD can fondly imagine.
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September 30, 2015 8:40am
kowtow

Funnily enough we are at far greater risk from an overbloated public service manned by constantly posting nuisances, on our taxes.
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September 30, 2015 8:46am
stephieboy

Manolo. I see you’ve decided to put a punt on and cheer the Dictators Basher and Vladimir. However your bound to feel bitter that the later Dictator will not , like the Kenyan, be putting boots on the ground in the ME.

Will you welcome Basher’s barrel bombs and chemical weapons targeting civilian populations ?

After all can we say the only good Muslim is a dead one ?
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September 30, 2015 8:50am
peterwn

calendar girl – a contested rating sale is extremely rare, Penny’s case would be the only one I remember. In most cases there is a mortgage and the mortgagee will cough up outstanding rates when prodded or the property is effectively abandoned (owner deceased, moved overseas etc). In others the owner pays when staring in the face of a rating sale (this Manurewa woman being a rare and notable exception – wonder if she is still there). Because of this the relevant legislation has never been given a thorough workout until now so Penny (via her legal cohorts) have been able to exploit all the nooks and crannies and hidden traps. The legislation itself also appears to need a bit of fine tuning (eg regarding recovery of costs). If the Council’s lawyers were aware they had a big potential fight on their hands they would have approached things much more thoroughly.
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September 30, 2015 8:52am
EAD

The debt as money scam explained by way of an excellent video:

https://youtu.be/jqvKjsIxT_8

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning” – Henry Ford
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September 30, 2015 8:53am
mandk

re. my 8.26
Evidently, the down tickers agree with Turia that the fact that Chris Brown is black overrides the fact that he is a crim.
Irony is lost on some people.
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September 30, 2015 8:54am
stephieboy

igm. is this the kind of thing you get up to in your in your leisure time ?

EAD, hellllooo ! I thing an explanation is owed by you with your failed soothsaying yet again !
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September 30, 2015 8:55am
Jack5

Any further word from our poster Padriv Ustoev in Mecca?

BBC reports more than 1000 might have died in the stampede.

Does Padriv know that when you are supposed to stone the devil, it means throw rocks at the rock that represents Old Nick, and not breathe the smoke from Mecca sticks into Old Nick’s mouth? If Padriv isn’t sure, perhaps he should wear a crash hat at the Old Nick part of the event, the rock concert as it were of the day.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34391055
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September 30, 2015 8:56am
flipper

It would be helpful to me and I am sure to many, if EAD and his shadows were to:

1. Explain today what will happen to the world’s economic system (etc.) before midnight tonight,

and

2. Prepare a detailed dissertation for publication tomorrow on why his predictions for today failed to occur.
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September 30, 2015 8:57am
SteveRemmington

How to solve two problems in the news today.

Let Chris Brown come to NZ but only on the condition he hooks up with Penny Bright.
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September 30, 2015 9:00am
stephieboy

Jack off 5, are the deaths in Mecca a tragedy or something to snigger at ?
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September 30, 2015 9:00am
calendar girl

Thanks, peterwn. I imagine that you are probably right. But surely somebody in local or central government can do, promptly, whatever it takes to stop this absurd bleeding of ratepayers. Continued flouting and/or ineffectiveness of the law is a poor precedent in society. Seven years!
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September 30, 2015 9:03am
dime

LMAO

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/72542457/eminem-ozzy-osbourne-tommy-lee-ok-for-nz-so-why-not-chris-brown

its all wacism!!!
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September 30, 2015 9:04am
Dave_1924

@mandk – deleted my comment directed at you – saw your subsequent post re irony… apologies…
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September 30, 2015 9:09am
Pongo

Head over to Whaleoil for some fun today by the looks of things. Fran O Sullivans reputation has just been dealt quite a blow.
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September 30, 2015 9:10am
kowtow

Is Farage the only sane voice in UK politics?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/608535/Nigel-Farage-blasts-EU-boss-Jean-Claude-Juncker-Dimitris-Avramopoulos-Britain-exit
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September 30, 2015 9:10am
Inandout

Manolo 8.04: She was raped about 5 times a day, probably to coincide with his head banging prayer regime.
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September 30, 2015 9:11am
Captain Mainwaring

The council should recover their legal costs, as well as the unpaid rates, from the proceeds of Penny’s forced sale. That should sort her out.
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September 30, 2015 9:11am
Jack5

Re Stephie the Bot at 9.0:

I must apologise for standing on your smelly Muslim toes. They are particularly pungent this morning.

However, Padriv’s posts give most of us a laugh, whereas you, the Bot, are merely a pain in the arse.
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September 30, 2015 9:13am
RF

Jack5. 9.13am

Not that I doubt Padrivs honesty but is there proof he actually left NZ to go on his holly quest. Some of his accounts of what happened do not stack up with official reports.

I know someone in Taupo who posts from there claiming he is on an overseas holiday.
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September 30, 2015 9:19am
fernglas

The council will be able to cover the costs of the debt collection, and with what’s left over they should be able to cover their costs on the defamation action, too. Losers in defamation cases usually pay the winner’s full costs. Penny has walked into that one!
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September 30, 2015 9:19am
waikatogirl

Judith Collins should say the same thing she said about Chris Brown to Dame Tariana.
Her quip that Brown should “Bugger off” also covers to Tariana’s ignorant comment.
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September 30, 2015 9:20am
mikenmild

flipper
You need to get with the programme. Our fearless prognosticator EAD is now claiming that the total economic collapse would only start in September 2015, so he is free to interpret current market turmoil as that start.
I’m trying to pin him down on a specific date for when I need to have completed hoarding my gold and ammo, but he is being elusive on that front.
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September 30, 2015 9:21am
mikenmild

RF

Padriv is no more in Mecca than starboard (who thought the bus fare from Christchurch to Nelson was too expensive) is in Thailand.
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September 30, 2015 9:22am
Jack5

Re RF at 9.19:

Padriv is a fictional, satirical, poster who creates a few smiles among Kiwiblog followers. Thanks to the wit who is behind Padriv.

Re Milky at 9.22: Agreed, Starboard is a fantastist. I think he posts from within a comfy cell with TV and Net access. Padriv, on the other hand, is droll.
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September 30, 2015 9:27am
waikatogirl

Jerry Brownlee is visiting the Panda breeding centre in China today, where he will personally deliver the proposal to bring panda to Wellington.
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September 30, 2015 9:29am
journo

I trust Mr Brownlee doesn’t wear black and white to the panda breeding centre. There might be an unfortunate misunderstanding.
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September 30, 2015 9:35am
Jack5

Waikatogirl (9.29): perhaps there could be a swap on the spot. Get Gerry a black and white suit and he’d do for a panda.

Footnote: Whoops, sorry Journo (9.37), I didn’t see your post before I clicked.
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September 30, 2015 9:37am
igm

Pongo: O’Sullivan’s reputation was never too flash, but as you say, she has been dealt a deserving blow . . . hope she is consigned to the trash can with the rest of the media scum NPA have cast aside. I also hope Drunk Armstrong is on the hit list.
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September 30, 2015 9:38am
stephieboy

A non profit event 20 – 22 November, Christchurch, NZ:

Science, Law, Mythbusting, Health and Medication, Critical Thinking.
This year’s theme is “Apocalypse, How?”
All welcome. For more details and cost of the event see the Website and Facebook page.

http://www.conference.skeptics.nz

20 – 22 November Christchurch NZ

https://www.facebook.com/NZSkepConf2015?ref=aymt_homepage_pa
nel

EAD, Reid, Ugly Truth , wikiwiri etc.. , time for a CT spring clean !
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September 30, 2015 9:42am
stigie

When Penny Bright becomes Mayor of Auckland City, every ratepayer will receive a 800 page document of all the contractors they use and every last cent being spent on these contractors so the ratepayer can determine if money is being well spent.

Of course this comes at a huge increase in rates of 25% to the Auckland City ratepayer !~

Vote Penny Bright for Mayor…..!
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September 30, 2015 9:44am
Jack5

Stephie the Bot (9.42).

A bit calmer now, eh. The pills kicked in have they, Stephie?

Stephie – a Skeptic? No way. Did you mean septic, Stephie?
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September 30, 2015 9:44am
Lucia Maria

Kowtow,

Farage is an idiot.

The EU is Europe’s answer to constant war. Remember WWI and WWII?
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September 30, 2015 9:45am
dime

imagine being in charge of stuff.. how could you ever be proud of your output?

apart from the wacism story about chris brown, the current headline is:

“IS PANDA-GATE BREWING?”

fuck whoever runs that site must just feel dead inside.
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September 30, 2015 9:47am
EAD

@ IGM,

I do often wonder when the “nothing is happening” crowd will finally wake up?

You would think that the simultaneous crashing of all of the largest stock markets around the world, along with several Brics being downgraded to junk status, 100k jobs cut by 1 Chinese company yesterday, the Head of the BOE warning cash might have to be banned and the IMF’s latest warning would be very big news. But so far the mainstream media haven’t been treating it like it isn’t really a big deal instead focusing on the big issues like Kim Kardashian, Bruce Jenner & homosexual “Marriage”!

Over the last sixty days, we have witnessed the most significant global stock market decline since the fall of 2008, many in bear market territory (20% down from previous highs) and yet most people still seem to think that this is just a temporary “bump in the road” and that the bull market will soon resume.

Hopefully they are right, but what if experts like Mikemild and Nasska are wrong?
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September 30, 2015 9:48am
Jack5

Re Lucia Maria at 9.45:

The EU is Europe’s answer to constant war.

I thought NATO was the answer to the war issue, and the EU was chiefly an economics project. Norway is in NATO, but not in the EU. I think Norway and Switzerland have trade agreements with the EU.

There could also be looser economic linkings if the EU breaks up. Perhaps some sort of customs union would be sufficient.
It seems that the common currency was the step too far that started testing the links, and crazy Merkel’s open invitation to the Third World that will be the issue that breaks the EU.
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September 30, 2015 9:57am
Michael

We’re doomed.
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September 30, 2015 9:58am
Jack5

Michael: the markets fall, the markets rise. Hang on.
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September 30, 2015 10:01am
minus

stigie – every ratepayer will receive a 800 page document of all the contractors they use and every last cent being spent on these contractors

stigie, you slightly underestimate the situation, as what Penny really requires is a dossier on all those contractees, and council contractors, to reveal fully listed pecuniary interests so she can detect conflicts of interest, as illustrated in her remarkable find that Prime Minister John Key has some shares in Bank of America.

That is one of the hiccups, I believe, in the current court ramifications over Bright’s house – what information on spending the local government law entitles her to expect on her rates demand – like the estimated 40 pages of A4 to summarise Council contracts.

Shit, it would have kept NZ Post in business.
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September 30, 2015 10:11am
RF

Jack5. 9.27am.

Thanks for turning on the lightbulb. I agree. Quite a wit that had me guessing.
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September 30, 2015 10:24am
James Stephenson

It seems that the common currency was the step too far that started testing the links

It was always known that a common currency couldn’t survive without political union. You only have to look at the way Greece has been bullied into doing what the EU wants to see that this is crisis-by-design to acheive further integration.

It’s really the last chance for those of us who are pro-Sovereign country and actual democracy to break our countries free of the EU.
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September 30, 2015 10:27am
starboard

Morning tax dodgers from Rawai Beach Phuket ! Still dark outside but bloody warm and sticky , much like the princess. Shame I have to leave her here tonight , back to Bangkok for my final week. This place is just bloody fantastic , those of you who have been to Thailand will know what I’m talking about..those who haven’t been are missing out on an experience and a half. As for you MM and your doubting thomas comrades who are no doubt still virgins , K .M. A. x
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September 30, 2015 10:49am
kowtow

LM

The EU has no answer to anything. It can’t even stop (does it want to) the largest Muslim migration Europe has seen since 1683.

Tours 732, Manzikert 1071, Constantinople 1453, Granada 1492, Lepanto 1571 , Armenian genocide 1915, etc

Islam has been at war and seeking to destroy Christendom since its inception.

Today the unelected rulers of the EU are ignoring their own people in favour of the latest invasion. In fact they are facilitating the invasion, they are traitors to the people and civilisation of Europe.
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September 30, 2015 10:56am
Andrei

The EU is Europe’s answer to constant war.

Tui ad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxDcvhH2Ypc
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September 30, 2015 10:59am
Lucia Maria

Jack,

I thought NATO was the answer to the war issue, and the EU was chiefly an economics project. Norway is in NATO, but not in the EU. I think Norway and Switzerland have trade agreements with the EU.

NATO is headed by the US, and the US is not wholly interested in Europe’s best interests separate from their own best interests.

Also, economics and war are very much tied together.

I think this article on Democracy in Europe sums up the situation (written in 2012 and prescient about the protential problems of the future, namely ” a resurgent Russia, a global China, and a nuclear Iran”):

Europe cannot simply turn around, as Americans [and NZ’ers] sometimes imagine, and hop backward rock by rock to the other shore of the river, becoming again a collection of nation-states That was where this journey began, let’s remember, with the Great Depression, World War II and the Holocaust. The whole purpose of European integration was to make such events impossible, a goal in recent decades emphasized by the growing demilitarization of Europe itself and the Europe-wide commemoration of the tragedy of Europe’s Jews. There is no way back, only a way forward: either with or without a constitution.

There’s been a change from the above situation of demilitarisation, as Europe is remilitiarising because of Russia – mostly those closest to the action of Ukraine. Those countries, while depending on NATO, are also also preparing for action if NATO leaves them in the lurch due to conflicting interests of the US.
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September 30, 2015 11:01am
kowtow

“The EU is Europe’s answer to constant war.”

EU leaders destabilised Libya and Syria ,creating failed states out of relatively prosperous ones and thereby creating the conditions for swamping Europe with Muslims.

Questions must also be asked of the EU’s role in destabilising the Ukraine.
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September 30, 2015 11:02am
waikatogirl

A large increase in bee hives being stolen up North. Believed to have been stolen on the back of utes and trucks, bee hives have been disappearing from around Kaikohe and other isolated northland areas.

Seems the belief that if I want it, I”ll take it is a growing trend in NZ.
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September 30, 2015 11:05am
peterwn

A few clarifications re Penny Bright’s rates
1. I doubt that the Council will be able to fully recover its legal costs. Legal costs associated with process mis-steps are unlikely to be recoverable.
2. It is extremely unlikely that the council can apply the ‘surplus’ proceeds of a rating sale for extraneous purposes. Even more so in this instance as the property is held in a trust. Any creditor (not just the council) could apply to the Court to ‘freeze’ such proceeds then attempt to ‘attack’ the trust as being a sham, etc, etc, So the Council could try, but would be on no better footing than any other creditor.
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September 30, 2015 11:08am
AgentBallSack

I saw a program about Panda the other night on TV. There is no doubt they are bloody popular with Chinese people. Just moving them from one area to another drew a crowd of screaming fangirls like you saw when The Beatles played NZ. If Wellington Zoo had Panda, every Chinese visitor that passes through Wellington would go see them in my opinion.
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September 30, 2015 11:15am
Manolo

@stephieboy: As a fervent and devout Muslim, have you completed the (primitive) Hajj?
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September 30, 2015 11:19am
Lucia Maria

Kowtow,

EU leaders destabilised Libya and Syria ,creating failed states out of relatively prosperous ones and thereby creating the conditions for swamping Europe with Muslims.

Questions must also be asked of the EU’s role in destabilising the Ukraine.

You are absorbing far too much Russian propaganda.

Syria’s and Libya’s problems go right back to to their tinpot leaders.

With Ukraine, the people were sick of the rampant corruption and took to the streets, whereby their tinpot leader had the security services massacre them (on the advice of Russia, btw). After which, he fled. None of which can be blamed on the EU. Russia is directly responsible for the destabilisation of Ukraine, given than their army is there conducting a war of invasion (nothing new, that’s what they do).
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September 30, 2015 11:20am
Lucia Maria

The EU has no answer to anything. It can’t even stop (does it want to) the largest Muslim migration Europe has seen since 1683.

Tours 732, Manzikert 1071, Constantinople 1453, Granada 1492, Lepanto 1571 , Armenian genocide 1915, etc

Islam has been at war and seeking to destroy Christendom since its inception.

Today the unelected rulers of the EU are ignoring their own people in favour of the latest invasion. In fact they are facilitating the invasion, they are traitors to the people and civilisation of Europe.

Conflating 732, 1071, 1453, 14092, 1571, 1915 with what is happening today in 2015 is just … so totally simplistic as to be complete nonsense, Kowtow. Seriously. And you know I know all about what happened in all of those dates that you’ve listed. This is not a Muslim invasion – it’s just a mass migration of people (who happen to be Muslim) escaping from a war-zone.

It is showing Europe however, that the EU has serious weakness, in that the EU cannot act together to handle this. The EU needs a foreign policy (and more as the article I linked to in my reply to Jack5 outlined). Dealing with Russia over the gas issue and Ukraine has stepped up this process. This migration problem will be another motivator to increase the pace.

Also, personally I’m not feeling particularly sorry for the Germans being swamped by people escaping a war. The irony here, given the numbers Germans massacred during WWII, is they’ll have to start looking after large groups of people rather than just killing them in their millions (which they are capable of).
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September 30, 2015 11:28am
mikenmild

kowtow thinks every war between people of different religions was caused by the religion he despises. That’s how bigotry works.
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September 30, 2015 11:34am
stephieboy

kowtow has always beholden to the Dictators Basher and Vladimir .Why -anything Obama bad , anything Basher and Vladimir so very excellent !
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September 30, 2015 11:39am
kowtow

Islam is not a religion it is an ideology.

“But in my dealings with British Muslim leaders and representatives for this work, and in other contacts at this time, I became uneasy. There were several unattractive things I noticed. One was the exclusion of women from any role in governance, thought or worship. Another was an absolutism about the Israel-Palestine issue which involved, in many cases, an unmistakable hostility to Jews. A third was an assumption that something that was considered bad – blasphemy, immodesty, homosexuality, mixed bathing – should be banned. The idea that one could disapprove of something, and yet believe that it should be permitted, seemed barely to exist.
Finally, there was an unsettling attitude about politics, law and power. It seemed to me that most Muslim leaders saw their role not in integrating Muslims in Britain, but in asserting difference and increasing their muscle. Many favoured sharia law trumping British law. They would not support Muslim membership of the Armed Forces if those forces were deployed against Muslim countries. They wanted it to be illegal to attack Islam, let alone denigrate its prophet; and they waged constant “lawfare” to try to silence their critics. They tended, I thought, to see the advance of their cause as a zero-sum game in which the authorities had to cede more ground (sometimes it is literally a matter of territory) to Muslims.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11859029/Nothing-has-changed-in-25-years-toease-my-concerns-about-Islam.html
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September 30, 2015 11:44am
Andrei

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUjVwFSln-A
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September 30, 2015 11:45am
stephieboy

Andrei, let me remind you once again RT is Putin’s and his Kremlin’s lie machine.Has it e.g withdrawn it’s dumb claim that M17 was shot down by a Ukraine Su 25 ?

The above RT claim is utter bollux that puts even the old Soviet Pravda to shame !
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September 30, 2015 11:47am
kowtow

re stiffies 1139 Capt Mainwaring says it best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9t_KDGqOmE
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September 30, 2015 11:47am
kowtow

LM

They are not escaping a war zone, they are decamping from Turkey. And most would appear not to be Syrians in any event.

You need to put your hatred of Germans behind you. It is the political class (on all sides) who are the enemy ,not ordinary Europeans who will now be thrust into constant low level conflict with Muslims who have no right to migrate ,against the law to Europe.
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September 30, 2015 11:52am
mikenmild

kowtow

exclusion of women from any role in governance, thought or worship

absolutism about the Israel-Palestine issue

something that was considered bad – blasphemy, immodesty, homosexuality, mixed bathing – should be banned

You make these Muslims sound like Catholic fundamentalists. Like you.
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September 30, 2015 12:01pm
Kimbo

@ kowtow

Islam is not a religion it is an ideology.

“But in my dealings with British Muslim leaders and representatives for this work, and in other contacts at this time, I became uneasy…”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11859029/Nothing-has-changed-in-25-years-toease-my-concerns-about-Islam.html

Actually it is both and religion and a political ideology…which individual Muslims follow to varying degrees.

And it is fascinating you did not quite the conclusion to the article. Not fitting with your agenda to endanger, circumvent and restrict our rights and freedoms while you engage in a crusade, perhaps? 😉

“Few non-Muslims want lots more Muslim immigrants.

Should a British political leader say this and enact laws on such a basis? Actually, I think not – not in such sweeping terms. If he did, individuals would be unfairly treated, and our nastier fellow-citizens would feel emboldened to persecute and try to drive out Muslims already here. But there are policy ways of addressing the problem – better “civics” in schools, more vigilance about what Islamic charities do, stronger loyalty tests for those arriving, much more study of what is said in mosques and who pays for them, policies which recognise that a Muslim state-funded school or a student Islamic society is, in reality, a much more dangerous proposition than a Christian or Jewish one. David Cameron is thinking in this way when he emphasises the role of non-violent, as well as violent extremism, in poisoning minds.

An assimilated Muslim is not a contradiction in terms, but neither is he or she the norm in Britain today. With the Muslim world in ferment and on the move, the risks grow daily”.

EDIT
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September 30, 2015 12:02pm
kowtow

LM

You’re lot weren’t always on the right side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIDvyGifRE0
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September 30, 2015 12:04pm
kowtow

kimbo

Does fit

“….but neither is he or she the norm in Britain today.”

They don’t want to assimilate ,they want to conquer.
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September 30, 2015 12:06pm
kowtow

MM

catholics, even fundamentalists see a core role for wimmin. The Mother of God,the Annunciation, the first witnesses of the Resurrection etc

But you know fuck all. So what’s the point.

Are you on your lunch break? Cos I don’t like you blogging on my time.
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September 30, 2015 12:10pm
flipper

Immigration and deportations…..

Rightly or wrongly, this issue is now building a head of steam, and I doubt that J Key can/will brush it off.

This issue goes to the heart of the relationship, – pensions, and all the other bennies that Aussies enjoy in NZ….including the right to vote after a number (cannot recall how many) of years.

I have no personal interest, but would be somewhat irritated if a Rellie of mine were to be disadvantaged by (discriminatory policies/attitudes) in any way.

This is “Piper Point” Malc’s first real F/ Aff test, is it not??????

*****
PM has ‘blunt’ chat with Australia about deportations

Radio New Zealand
2 hrs ago

Prime Minister John Key says Australia is challenging its relationship with New Zealand with its policy of detaining and deporting New Zealanders.
About 300 New Zealanders are being held in Australian detention centres, or have been deported since strict new visa laws were introduced last year.
Mr Key told Morning Report he had had a “pretty blunt” conversation with Australian foreign minister, Julie Bishop, at the United Nations in New York.
He said Australia had to think about the way it treated New Zealanders, including those who had committed crimes but who had no ties to this country.
“There[‘s [sic] are] people that have often spent their entire lives now in Australia, they went over there when they were very, very, young.
“It’s a little bit like the Australians saying, ‘well, we’re going to pick and choose; we’re going to keep the ones we like but we’re going to send back the ones we don’t like.'”
He said Australia had to take the rough with the smooth.
“We also deport people; but not in the sense that Australia are talking about, and I do think Australia has to think about this from the long haul in both the way New Zealanders are treated long-term in Australia, and also this issue.”
Mr Key said Australia’s Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull was new in the job and this would not be his “number one issue”, but he would raise it with Mr Turnbull when he next met him.
“The ANZAC bond means that there’s a special relationship there that surely means we might get some treatment that’s different from other countries, and what they might do with other countries is up to them.
“But I think when it comes to New Zealanders, the threshold’s currently set in the wrong place.”
Meanwhile, the sister of a New Zealand man who died in an Australian high-security prison said she was overwhelmed to hear Australian officials will investigate her brother’s death.
Junior Togatuki, 23, died in isolation in the jail two weeks ago, while awaiting deportation to New Zealand after serving a sentence for robbery and assault.
Listen to Junior Togatuki’s sister on Morning Report ( 3 min 50 sec )
New Zealand Foreign Affairs Minister, Murray McCully, said his Australian counterpart had assured him there would be an inquiry into the death, which officials said was suicide.
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September 30, 2015 12:13pm
Jack5

Re Kimbo at 12.02:

We can hear you.

Too much bold and italic!

Flipper (12.13), too.
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September 30, 2015 12:13pm
Kimbo

@ kowtow

kimbo

Does fit

“….but neither is he or she the norm in Britain today.”

They don’t want to assimilate ,they want to conquer.

Ho hum. Juxtaposing, balancing paradoxes, recognising and working with nuance ai’nt your strong point, is it?

Tell you what, kowtow, seeing you like references that are based in our traditional cultural heritage, why not consider this piece of advise in the form of a proverb/parable which also contains a widely applicable principle, and then tease out the ramifications for an all-out restriction on immigrants on the basis of their faith

Matthew 13: 24-29

“a man…sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them”.
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September 30, 2015 12:14pm
stephieboy

kowtow, so Charles Moore believes like you that we need simply our own version of a Jihad / holy crusade against all the world’s 1.6 million Muslims ?
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September 30, 2015 12:15pm
Jack5

Old Stephie the Bot: Extend a poster’s argument (this time Kowtow’s) then hammer the extension.

That’s primary-school level debate, Stephie. Lift your game.

And what’s this at 12.15:

… holy crusade against all the world’s 1.6 million Muslims ?

What’s happened to the other 1.5 billion? Have they become Jehovah’s Witnesses?
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September 30, 2015 12:18pm
waikatogirl

Agentballsack
I saw a program about Panda the other night on TV. There is no doubt they are bloody popular with Chinese people. Just moving them from one area to another drew a crowd of screaming fangirls like you saw when The Beatles played NZ. If Wellington Zoo had Panda, every Chinese visitor that passes through.
***
Probably a good call.
Not half as interesting as they are on TV, all washed and moving in gorgeously funny ways. Not like my panda visit, which resulted in a sleeping dirty brown panda. Panda are probably appropriate to keep in breeding centres, they seem too docile and lethargic to survive in the wild. However as cute as they can be, is it economically viable for Wellington to consider hosting them? Apparently their food is only Special bamboo shoots regularly flown fresh from China in its own airplane cabin seat as can’t be sent in the hold! All at the hosts expense of course.
Last week I visited Orana Park in Chch and saw the very large and amazing gorilla. Much more impressive but better left in the wilds of Africa.
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September 30, 2015 12:19pm
Kimbo

@ kowtow

Are you on your lunch break? Cos I don’t like you blogging on my time.

Maybe you need to take yourself , and more importantly your opinions, a bit less seriously.

But then true freedom of ideas and expression and the means by which they are protected – and also endangered by those who profess to hold them precious – doesn’t really seem like your thing, does it?
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September 30, 2015 12:20pm
Kimbo

Re Kimbo at 12.02:

We can hear you.

Too much bold and italic!

Flipper (12.13), too.

Observation: why is it that those who profess to save us from the authoritarian ideological Muslim horde…seem to be the most authoritarian in the way they engage in discourse?

Or is that too acse of, “extend a poster’s argument…then hammer the extension”.
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September 30, 2015 12:23pm
simpleton1

To the end of the parable given by Kimbo
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
Just seems like a good farming practice.
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September 30, 2015 12:24pm
Jack5

Re Kimbo at 12.33:

I would say long passages in italic and bold, sometimes in both, shows you have a bit of an authoritarian streak.

It’s almost like you are shouting to the rest of us Kiwiblogodytes: shut the fuck up and listen to me! Suggests a very authoritarian streak.

And extending an opponent’s argument then attacking extension is the sort of tactic the authoritarian Stalinists used in the show trials of the 1930s.
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September 30, 2015 12:27pm
kowtow

kimmie

MM is fully entitled to his misinformed,bigoted opinions , but if I want to have a dig at the fact he’s expressing them while he’s in my employ then I will.

You sir ,could do with taking a wee bit bit of your own advice to heart. Too protestant preachey for my Catholic tastes.
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September 30, 2015 12:29pm
thedavincimode

MM is fully entitled to his misinformed,bigoted opinions

I’ll bet you gave G** a bit of a chuckle with that one kowtow.
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September 30, 2015 12:34pm
Kimbo

@simpleton1

To the end of the parable given by Kimbo…

Correct. That is the original application as, like all of the parables of Jesus, it is directed to the Judaeo-Christian apocalyptic kingdom of God.

…and why, when I quoted it, I made care to mention it was a“reference…based in our traditional cultural heritage” that “contains a widely applicable principle”, which could then be used “tease out the ramifications for an all-out restriction on immigrants on the basis of their faith”

Compare with kowtow’s redaction at 11:44 of the Telegraph op ed piece he introduced:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11859029/Nothing-has-changed-in-25-years-toease-my-concerns-about-Islam.html

…,where the original writer’s solutions differ significantly from kowtow’s…not that you got that from kowtow.
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September 30, 2015 12:35pm
kowtow

No He knew before I posted that that I was going to write that so the humour of the moment was lost on Him, orwas it?

What’s with this G** stuff are you some kind of Old Testament fundie ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkbqzWVHZI
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September 30, 2015 12:38pm
stephieboy

Jack5 (6,961 comments) says:
September 30th, 2015 at 12:18 pm

knickers in a twist yet again , eh?

kowtow, whose side were on at Yorktown, eh ?
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September 30, 2015 12:42pm
Kimbo

@ kowtow

You sir ,could do with taking a wee bit bit of your own advice to heart. Too protestant preachey for my Catholic tastes.

Ah, hah!

Now I understand the over-compensation 😉

catholics, even fundamentalists see a core role for wimmin. The Mother of God,the Annunciation, the first witnesses of the Resurrection etc

Not in ordination, they don’t.

And seeing you are painting with such a broad brush…how many American Presidents have been women, compared to Muslim countries?

It’s ok, kowtow. If I was around 160 years ago, I’d like to think I would have stuck up for the possibility of immigration from Catholic Ireland…even though tykes like you brought with ’em all manner of Papal superstition, Jesuit plots and other threats to democracy endemic to a religion that is…still…essentially hierarchical and authoritarian.
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September 30, 2015 12:43pm
Jack5

Kimbo (12.43): You aren’t really suggesting that Muslims treat women as equals?

ow many American Presidents have been women, compared to Muslim countries?

And welcome back from lunch Stephie the Bot (12.42). But what has happened to the 1.5 billion Muslims you have lost? (See 12.18 post).

I knew the Mecca stampede was terrible. But 1.5 billion?
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September 30, 2015 12:46pm

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