General Debate 27 September 2015

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stephieboy

wiki, and you get dumb comments like this of course blaming the Jews ,

Retsu Ichijouji

They are planning for an American economic collapse to make way for Pax Judaica.

Most enlightening !
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September 27, 2015 3:07pm
wikiriwhis business

“They are planning for an American economic collapse to make way for Pax Judaica.”

This is why America needs a major war and it’s seriously developing
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September 27, 2015 3:16pm
stephieboy

wiki, so it’s all a simple matter of blaming the Jews and that will fix things ?
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September 27, 2015 3:17pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Stephieboy

Yours ?

My opinion is that of a trained scientist (for that is my background) and as you mention Sir Paul Nurse, President of the Royal Society, then I can do no better than quote its motto:”Nullius in verba” which translates as: on the word of no-one.

That is don’t take anyone else’s word for something….think it out for yourself…

I am always suspicious when someone wants to close down scientific debates.

Odakyu-sen gives you an historical eg from Japan. I could give you numerous examples from science when powerful people tried to shut down scientific research that ran counter to their interests. Russia and Lysenkoism is an obvious one.

But remember it matters not a toss what I think or believe.

You can choose whether to go with my 1st class Hons & Ph. D. background in Plant Ecology ,or my description on KB by fellow posters that I am a psychotic, paranoid 0.8 fucking moronic wingnut.
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September 27, 2015 3:19pm
mikenmild

Kimbo

I accept that there is a scientific consensus that climate change is real and attributable to human causes. I also accept that the best mitigation measure would be for countries to reduce the amount of greenhouse gas emissions.

These are not controversial points; notwithstanding what one may read in parts of the clogosphere.

Acceptance of this reality does not mean that I am responsible for articulating the actions required to avert catastrophic change.

Probably the most important action citizens can take is to use their votes to support political parties that are committed to reasonable actions. This is no different to any other matter of public policy.
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September 27, 2015 3:19pm
Odakyu-sen

stephieboy,

I am not denying that climates can change. I believe that climates are dynamic systems; not static ones.

No doubt about it. Look at the evidence of numerous Ice Ages and Warm Periods in the past.

The thing is this: the variables involved and their interplays will do your head in (to use the popular UK English phrase).
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September 27, 2015 3:20pm
stephieboy

Maggy W, yes your credentials are impressive but I prefer to go with the likes of Sir Peter Gluckman and the NZ Royal Society on this issue if you don’t mind .

Plant ecology? Fascinating .You might like to explain why the Kauri that originally would not grow beyond our .38th Parallel ( roughly Kauwhia across to just South of coromandel can now be found growing well in Southland ?

Odakyu sen, yes there are past variables at play but you can confidently assert that the variable of 7 billion people has nothing to contribute ?
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September 27, 2015 3:27pm
Odakyu-sen

stephieboy,

“Odakyu sen, yes there are past variables at play but you can confidently assert that the variable of 7 billion people has nothing to contribute ?”

“Nothing” is an extreme. I think the word you are looking for is “significant.” (And by that I mean 95% confident.)
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September 27, 2015 3:38pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

As a skeptic I was fairly convinced in the early 2000’s (after the sharp rise of the 90’s) that global warming was a problem. But as time went by I saw more and more hyperbolic scare stories, even as temp increases flatlined. And so I spent the time to learn more about climate modelling (I have training in computational fluid dynamics and their mathematical underpinnings). I was frankly horrified at how inadequate they were – missing so many essential physical processes (Long term oceanic heat flow cycles! Cloud formation and condensation physics! Rain! Convection processes! Pervasive use of post-hoc guessed at ‘fiddle factors’ for various pollutants to try and get simulations to match data), and having such poor temporal and spatial resolution that they were little better than a joke – like a toddler’s crayon drawing of a forest.

And then my concerns were further added to by atrocious scientific practices – Manns hockey stick graph, refusal to make data and analysis methods used for published papers available for others to check, politicisation and coordinated efforts to shut down non-catastrophist views. Climategate. Political organisations and movements rising to cash in on it. It was patently obvious that it was no longer driven by science, but rather by 10,000’s of academics, campaigners and politicians individually working to feather their pockets by selling a scare.

We’ve now had 15-20 years of no significant increase, while the temperature rise taken over the last 60 year (minimum sensible period for assessment given significant CO2 rise started in 1950’s and the dominating natural cycle of the PDO oscillation is 60 years long) is only just over 1°C per century. The IPCC’s climate models are running hopelessly too hot, averaging something like 3°C/century:
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/CMIP5-global-LT-vs-UAH-and-RSS.png
But reality is not cooperating with these predictions. Temperature would need to jump by 0.3-0.4 degrees tomorrow (roughly equivalent to rise since 1980), just for the 60 year trend to get close to the bottom end of 2-4°C/century IPCC predictions.

So my question is for the true believers: Is there any possible real world data that could convince you that the alarmist (>2°C/century) position is wrong? How many years more of <2°C/century rise to persuade you that the 'consensus' was wrong?
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September 27, 2015 3:50pm
Reid

The root cause of ADS (AGW Delusion Syndrome) is the moment when the mind jumps the shark and for no reason at all concludes that plant food is, all of a sudden, an ultra deadly poison to the poor widdle pwanet. The fact this plant food has been part of said planet’s evolutionary cycle for billions, yes billions of years, even before there were any plants at all to enjoy it, is neither here nor there to the ADS sufferer. And of course, once the silly little mental has decided that yes, plant food is vewy vewy bad indeed why nothing is impossible anymore, and the poor bastard goes galloping off into the sunset, fill of roaring mentalism, pontificating on this and that and the other thing all of which are complete and utter bollocks, and getting very annoyed indeed when everyone who doesn’t have ADS look at him rather funny and cross the street whenever they see him.

We should really be locking them all up lest they hurt themselves. It’s funny no-ones been seriously suggesting that because when you think about it…
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September 27, 2015 3:52pm
All_on_Red

This is a Pencil case?
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/26/nearly-all-agree-ahmeds-clock-looks-like-a-bomb/
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September 27, 2015 3:56pm
Nostradamus

Something is wrong.

There are 38 matches for “climate change” on this thread and, so far, no sign of Griff.

Should we send out a search party?
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September 27, 2015 4:03pm
mikenmild

UrbanNeocolonialist
it would seem that you have gone about this the right way. Unfortunately, it also seems that you have been beguiled by the usual bevy of highly suspect sources.
so when you witter on about the hockey stick and ‘Climategate’, pretend that there has been no warming for 15 years, and cite Roy Spencer as source, it is pretty clear that you have got confused, at the very least.
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September 27, 2015 4:04pm
All_on_Red

Mikey
So because Spencer is a Christian his research means nothing? Fortunately NASA disagrees with you.( Winner of NASAs Exceptional Scientific Acheivement Medal) And if you think the Hockey Stick is good science then you’re a bigger fool than I currently take you for.
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September 27, 2015 4:07pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Nostradamus
Griff is often absent in the weekend.

Also Wales won the rugby
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September 27, 2015 4:08pm
mikenmild

You reckon they thought it was a bomb, All_on_Red? So, I suppose they called the bomb squad and evacuated the school. What, that didn’t happen? Well, they must have done something. Oh yeah, his teacher held on to the ‘bomb’ for several hours and then sat Ahmed in a room alone with his ‘bomb’ to wait for the police.
Roy Sepncer’s religion has nothing to do with scientific opinion on his denialism. Religion may be a factor in Spencer’s creationist nonsense, though.
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September 27, 2015 4:12pm
Nostradamus

Thanks Maggy.

I’ve just looked it up and, yes, he’s Welsh.

That explains a lot!
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September 27, 2015 4:13pm
All_on_Red

Mikey
What exactly does Spencer deny?
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September 27, 2015 4:16pm
All_on_Red

Mikey
On the “bomb”. Doesn’t look like a bomb to me ,but people in the vid seemed to think so but I doubt you even looked at the vid…
Personally I think Ahmed is just a smart arse whose father has an axe to grind. Bit of a coincidence his sister was in similar strife a few years go with bomb comments.
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September 27, 2015 4:21pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@stephieboy

re Kauri distribution

kauri is but one of our native trees that grows well when planted beyond its natural distribution limit.
(Pohutukawa & karo are weeds in Wellington….. well south of their natural limits).

Fossil evidence shows Kauri grew well south of its current distribution (7 million years ago growing around Invercargill)….but nasty little events like ice ages, mountain building, volcanic eruptions, etc disrupted the extent of forest in NZ and Kauri ended up confined to Northern NZ.
The seed of kauri is heavy and is not distributed far and wide.
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September 27, 2015 4:24pm
V

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249667/Germany-state-SIEGE-Merkel-cheered-opened-floodgates-migrants-gangs-men-roaming-streets-young-German-women-told-cover-mood-s-changing.html

Another Merkel F* up.
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September 27, 2015 4:24pm
mikenmild

My point was that the school didn’t do any of the things one might reasonably have expected them to do had the really believed that it was a bomb.
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September 27, 2015 4:29pm
All_on_Red

Mikey
No one believed it was a bomb. The point everyone else is making is that the whole thing was contrived. He invented nothing. Of course the great fuck wit Obama leapt in.

You going to answer this question?
What does Spencer deny?
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September 27, 2015 4:38pm
mikenmild

Evolutionary theory?
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September 27, 2015 4:39pm
All_on_Red

Don’t be facetious. About “climate science”. You won’t of course. Ignorant troll that you are.
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September 27, 2015 4:42pm
stephieboy

Maggy W , so this time around 7 billion people and their e.g industrial activities like burning fossil fuels having absolutely nothing to do with the Kauri growing in Southland ?
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September 27, 2015 4:42pm
mikenmild

mankind’s influence on climate is small and will continue to be small

– Roy Spencer, ‘The Great Global Warming Bungle’
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September 27, 2015 4:44pm
mikenmild

Here’s Spencer again. It’s a great conspiracy, apparently:

I find it difficult to believe that I am the first researcher to figure out what I describe in this book. Either I am smarter than the rest of the world’s climate scientists–which seems unlikely–or there are other scientists who also have evidence that global warming could be mostly natural, but have been hiding it. That is a serious charge, I know, but it is a conclusion that is difficult for me to avoid.
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September 27, 2015 4:51pm
stigie

“I’ve just looked it up and, yes, he’s Welsh”.

I would imagine he will then be celebrating aboard his ferro cement ketch this weekend…?
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September 27, 2015 4:53pm
graphite

From stephieboy:

Unfortunately the debate has become hijacked by those with an ideological agenda divorced from the science of the debate . . .

+++++++++++

No truer words have been written on the climate debate.

Back in the 1970s, when the climate debate du jour was the coming ice age, the arguments went back and forth between the scientists involved. Staying out were the politicians, while the media just reported the goings on without taking sides.

The result: the whole scare died a natural death.

This time around, governments got involved. The UN got involved. The IPCC was set up. Grant money flowed to universities and researchers like the Nile and Amazon combined. Annual conferences, in some of the world’s most desirable locations, were held. An entire industry sprang up wherein former nobodies became celebrities; where former obscure manufacturers of niche products found themselves swamped with cash. This was science’s version of the golden age of rock ‘n’ roll.

And if you think any of these guys who formerly laboured away in labs but now had the ear of presidents and prime ministers, who now flitted from conference to senate hearing, were going to give it up . . . well, think again. Would you?

And why do governments hand out this money? It’s the messiah complex that afflict politicians. They want to have a Churchill or Roosevelt legacy, to go down as having faced a global problem and solved it.

The media are on board because bad news sells. And the way media companies are faring at the moment, they need all the bad news they can get.

Finally, there is no such thing as “climate science”; no university awards degrees in “climatology”. If you want the absolute top guy in the world you can’t go past Richard Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, a lead author for the IPCC reports on climate change.

Lindzen, who is past the stage of coveting grants, prestige and all the other baubles that sway lesser men, coined the phrase “climate alarmism” for all the nonsense being pumped out. He’s the fella governments should be listening to, but won’t.
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September 27, 2015 5:03pm
mikenmild

What makes you single out Lindzen as being more reliable than other climate specialists?
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September 27, 2015 5:06pm
Left Right and Centre

Soft post – scroll off or read for a laugh . . .
General Running; there, back and centre . . .
Daylight saving *flick on* – sun over Wellington *flick on*
Nice day for a challenge – run 13km inside an hour (was waiting for good weather / head space for it). Even though 13km/h isn’t bad – 1-2km/h more is possible. Still – there was much hand-wringing and psyching up, shaking out nervous energy and taking it quite seriously before lift-off. Strong coffee – one for the road (literally ?).
Bloody psyched up alright – 53’09”. Smashed it. Here’s to champagne sunshine – *clink*
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September 27, 2015 5:10pm
Kimbo

@ mikenmild

I accept that there is a scientific consensus that climate change is real and attributable to human causes. I also accept that the best mitigation measure would be for countries to reduce the amount of greenhouse gas emissions.

These are not controversial points; notwithstanding what one may read in parts of the clogosphere.

Yes – you have accurately relayed the “consensus”.

Acceptance of this reality does not mean that I am responsible for articulating the actions required to avert catastrophic change.

Isn’t that a non-sequitur, particualrly in the light of your readiness to label as “outstanding stupidity” the criticism of climate activists who do not do everything possible to reduce their reliance on fossil fuels?

Probably the most important action citizens can take is to use their votes to support political parties that are committed to reasonable actions. This is no different to any other matter of public policy.

Probably the most important action citizens can take is to use their votes to support political parties that are committed to reasonable actions. This is no different to any other matter of public policy.

So “think global, act local” is not really a viable or worthwhile strategy? Instead, isn’t your strategy a case of “get the government to force people make adjustments to their lifestyle…that I’m not even prepared to do voluntarily?

So if the activists can’t/won’t do it willingly, what chance is there of forcing those who don’t want to change, and have the ingenuity and incentive to find endless ways to circumvent and undermine government policy?

Just asking…

EDIT
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September 27, 2015 5:18pm
Scott Chris

the criticism of climate activists who do not do everything possible to reduce their reliance on fossil fuels?

I thought you were supposed to be asking questions, not misrepresenting arguments.
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September 27, 2015 5:30pm
mikenmild

I have not suggested that individuals should not act for themselves. Many of us do.

‘Forcing’ people to make adjustment is a bit of shallow rhetoric, don’t you think? We ‘force’ people to do all sorts of things. We ‘force’ people not to commit, murder, to take an obvious and ludicrous example.

If we were to tax carbon emissions, it would not ‘force’ anyone to act in any way. It would just make the cost of unsustainable activities harder to bear. For example, I imagine that increasing the price of carbon would not discourage John Key from taking holidays in Hawaii.
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September 27, 2015 5:37pm
Scott Chris

You been on the Chardonnay this arvo Kimbo? Your posts seem to be a little erratic….
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September 27, 2015 5:39pm
Kimbo

@ Scott Chris

the criticism of climate activists who do not do everything possible to reduce their reliance on fossil fuels?

I thought you were supposed to be asking questions, not misrepresenting arguments.

Care to show me where I have misinterpreted Nukuleka’s original argument?

You been on the Chardonnay this arvo Kimbo? Your posts seem to be a little erratic….

In and out and round about…including gym now, plus someone else in the household using the PC for an assignment.
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September 27, 2015 5:49pm
stephieboy

Favourite climate myths by Richard Lindzen

Below are many of the climate myths used by Richard Lindzen plus how often each myth has been used.

Climate myths by Lindzen What the Science Says
“Climate sensitivity is low” Net positive feedback is confirmed by many different lines of evidence. 9
“Earth hasn’t warmed as much as expected” This argument ignores the cooling effect of aerosols and the planet’s thermal inertia. 5
“Global warming stopped in 1998, 1995, 2002, 2007, 2010, ????”

Global temperature is still rising and 2010 was the hottest recorded. ( and still rising )

4
“Climate’s changed before” Climate reacts to whatever forces it to change at the time; humans are now the dominant forcing.

Etc,etc,eye,

https://www.skepticalscience.com/Richard_Lindzen_arg.htm
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September 27, 2015 5:53pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@stephieboy 4:42pm

lets hope that I have interpreted your question correctly… I think you are asking me whether I think Kauri’s ability to grow in Southland has nothing to do with AGW.

Well a little plant biology may be needed here…. Many trees can grow & survive beyond their natural temperature limits if they are planted as strong little seedlings in a favourable environment. (i.e. correct soils, no competiton, no herbivory).
But the critical thing to ask if we are discussing climate change and future survival of a species is whether or not the plant can reproduce successfully (i.e. set seed and germinate healthy seedlings that grow into saplings, then mature trees.)

I am not aware that natural regeneration of kauri is occurring in Southland (I’d be interested in any evidence though)

For a while it was thought that kauri was effectively regenerating in Otari Gardens, Wellington… but further investigations showed the young saplings had all been planted at different times
http://bts.nzpcn.org.nz/bts_pdf/WBS53-73-79-LewingtonWest.pdf

I grew a Kauri in Island Bay, Wellington (? southern-most kauri tree in North Island) for over 30 years. It formed cones, set seeds, but I never observed any germination.

(Even if Kauri does regenerate in Southland, you would have to run a series of experiments to show that it had been a lower temperature that had previously been the rate-limiting factor to successful germination)
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September 27, 2015 5:59pm
mikenmild

As I understand it, there are a lot more factors than just temperature that affect the natural limits for plant species. And this of course has been muddled greatly by humans planting what they want, where they want. We have a kauri here in Lower Hutt, but I’m damn sure it was planted deliberately – it will be a problem for someone in a few hundred years.
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September 27, 2015 6:14pm
Manolo

The enemy within: http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/poll-most-u-s-muslims-would-trade-constitution-for-shariah/

‘Quran should be highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion’
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September 27, 2015 6:22pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@mikenmild 6:14

it will be a problem for someone in a few hundred years.

The natural distribution of our native vascular plants is pretty well known… and has been for decades for our trees and shrubs.
Not so well known is the natural distribution of tiny things such as mosses, liverworts, lichens…
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September 27, 2015 6:22pm
Scott Chris

Kimbo you knew you’re misrepresenting Mikenmild’s argument when you said;

particualrly in the light of your readiness to label as “outstanding stupidity” the criticism of climate activists who do not do everything possible to reduce their reliance on fossil fuels?

You and I both know that that wasn’t the main thrust of Nukuleka’s stupidity unless you yourself are being deliberately stupid. I’ll repeat my response to the same post; critique that if you will;

Regardless of whether you believe in CAGW or not, these kids are convinced their homeland will very likely be swamped by the sea in the coming decades and the rest of the world doesn’t appear to be doing anything about it. Try dragging yourself out of your narrow-minded world for a second and stand in their shoes.

What would you do? Swim over? Or would you just stay at home waving a protest flag under a coconut tree to an audience of dolphins?
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September 27, 2015 6:35pm
Nostradamus

Greg Presland whines about the decline of the NZ Herald:

If this is du Plessis-Allan’s writing we still have a problem because she is clearly amongst the large array of National cheerleaders we have in the midst of our media.

Greg identifies the solution to his problem: more Labour cheerleaders.

He then takes a detour down hypocrisy lane:

Then she chips at Labour about pandas.
…
Our leader fluffing around trying to change the appearance of a particular flag and trying to get a couple of animals into one of our zoos for a photo opportunity should be treated by ridicule by a political writer in our major daily newspaper. It is a shame that it appears the Herald no longer has the calibre of writer who will say this.

Right. So no photo opportunities for our prime ministers at zoos then?

Oh hold on:

25 May 2002 – Helen Clark has a photo opportunity with kakapo chick near Te Anau.

18 March 2005 – Helen Clark opened Auckland Zoo’s entry complex and education facility. A wonderful photo opportunity!

28 April 2005 – Helen Clark unveiled a ‘kiwi’ sculpture at Berlin Zoo. Another wonderful photo opportunity and lots of frequent flyer points!

And that’s only three examples from a quick Google search.
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September 27, 2015 6:46pm
Gabby

Pauly gnomy, flick that hair around, yeah that’s how he likes it, just a bit more, keep smiling now, oh shit. He likes it real man, pieces won’t cut it. Stay gold.
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September 27, 2015 6:55pm
Scott Chris

Kimbo, I owe you an apology. Having read back I was wrong in asserting that you misrepresented Mikenmild’s argument.

I will say this though; you don’t have to completely forgo the use of fossil fuels in order to reduce your carbon footprint. To shun them completely would be extreme, impractical, pointless….. stupid even.
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September 27, 2015 6:56pm
Gabby

Hey nosty, aren’t they all native birds? Who we renting them from?
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September 27, 2015 6:57pm
nasska

Don’t worry about where the birds hail from…..just sniff up that familiar stench of Labour’s hypocrisy!
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September 27, 2015 7:04pm
mikenmild

It would be hypocritical if Labour had touted the import of pandas as a major new economic initiative. But they haven’t.
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September 27, 2015 7:09pm
nasska

But Presland blathers….”and trying to get a couple of animals into one of our zoos for a photo opportunity”….

Even he must remember that many Labour leaders but very few years ago someone was prepared to fly halfway round the world to pose with a bird.

A better example of cant would be hard to find.
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September 27, 2015 7:16pm
mikenmild

Who flew halfway around the world to pose with a bird? Was is Stephen Fry visiting Sirocco the kakapo?
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September 27, 2015 7:22pm
nasska

Actually it’s worse than I thought Mike. The scowling one travelled to Berlin & cuddled up to a “sculpture” of a kiwi in what must be the most blatant example of self promotion ever undertaken by a NZ politician.

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/unveiling-%E2%80%98kiwi%E2%80%99-sculpture-berlin-zoo
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September 27, 2015 7:28pm
Nostradamus

You left out the important bit Nasska:

It is not a simple exercise to bring a sculpture of this size all the way around the world from New Zealand to Berlin. The New Zealand Government has given support to the project through our new Cultural Diplomacy Fund.

I suspect it took a focus group or two, reinforced by an earnest sense of public duty, before someone finally came up with the name “Cultural Diplomacy Fund”.
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September 27, 2015 7:33pm
nasska

And here’s a photo of the “sculpture”. https://www.dropbox.com/s/76g01msqxtm2vc7/Kiwi%20out%20of%20rubbish.jpg?dl=0

Looks more angular, less feeling & of poorer quality than the politician who introduced it. 🙂
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September 27, 2015 7:36pm
mikenmild

nasska
My point was that it is doubtful that the PM travelled all the way to Europe to only unveil a sculpture. She probably attended an international sociialist conference at the same time.
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September 27, 2015 7:38pm
Kimbo

@ Scott Chris

Kimbo, I owe you an apology.

Accepted – you are a gentleman and a scholar.

Cheers – thanks for your and mikenmild’s engagement.

Now there are other matters in my household that require my attendance (including a few beers while I cook dinner rather than Chardonnay), so I must excuse myself…
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September 27, 2015 7:38pm
Jack5

Re Stephieboy’s 3.27 post containing this:

Maggy W , so this time around 7 billion people and their e.g industrial activities like burning fossil fuels having absolutely nothing to do with the Kauri growing in Southland ?

This was interesting enough for me to phone a friend in Invercargill. He told me the kauri referred to is or are probably the specimen or specimens planted in Invercargill’s Queen’s Park, and have been growing there for decades. The kauri there are sheltered, in rich soil, are protected from plant competition and at least initially were nurtured by park staff. This fits the point made by at 4.24 by Maggy Wassilieff:

Many trees can grow & survive beyond their natural temperature limits if they are planted as strong little seedlings in a favourable environment. (i.e. correct soils, no competiton, no herbivory).
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September 27, 2015 7:58pm
Jack5

Whoops, in my 7.58 post: I was referring to Stephieboy’s 4.42 post mention of kauri in Southland, not his earlier mention of this.
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September 27, 2015 8:04pm
wiseowl

Talking about travel.

Gerry Brownlee is off to Communist China to meet with military leaders.

This is extraordinary. Unbelieveable.

Who are our allies? When is he going to meet with USA military leaders?

Our politicians are far too fond of this communist country .
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September 27, 2015 8:05pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Jack5
Tx

Yep, I know these trees….

Probably planted post 1911..
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/public-gardens/page-3
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September 27, 2015 8:06pm
Stars And Stripes

Well if Minto and the Greens had their way we would be forming military alliances(no sorry search and rescue alliances) with Venezuela and Cuba.
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September 27, 2015 8:11pm
Reid

Our politicians are far too fond of this communist country .

Its our future wiseowl. The US is our past.

Get used to it, and operate wisely in it.
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September 27, 2015 8:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

For those (still) interested in Kauri growing in the South Island…

Here’s a comprehensive overview of a forestry stand of Kauri planted on the Taeri Plain (Dunedin)
Growth rates comparable to northern plantation stands….
http://www.nzjforestryscience.com/content/44/1/14
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September 27, 2015 8:29pm
nasska

As the head of a management team for a District Health Board I often have to make difficult decisions regarding the allocation of limited funds.

For instance, recently I had to make a choice: spend 250 thousand dollars on experimental cancer treatment to possibly save the life of a single child or spend it on a proven treatment for ten adult alcoholics with self-inflicted liver disease.

In the end I spent it on a new sculpture for the foyer to show visitors that our hospital is a centre for excellence.
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September 27, 2015 9:05pm
stigie

But in the end it made you feel good Nasska ?
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September 27, 2015 9:22pm
stephieboy

Maggy W, thank you for that link and yes the Kauri can grow in the South island helped by sheltered locations , micro climates and other things .

I do commend this wonderful documentary about luthier Laurie Williams and his working with Kauri for his Guitars and Violins. ” The Somg pf the Kauri “”The documentary also explores the Kauri and possibilities for sustainable commercial l production. It would bring more bang for buck than Pinus Radiata which can be grown almost anywhere . Kauri can be harvested at 60 years,

http://www.songofthekauri.com/on-dvd-vimeo/
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September 27, 2015 9:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@stephieboy

Forest Service scientists and farm foresters were singing the tune of Kauri forestry decades ago…..
but some wise green folk decided to do away with the nasty Forest Service and its experimental trials…

(I’m an old lady…. I’ve been beating the drum about growing trees since before the days of Nuclear Winter, the coming Ice Age, the warming 90s, the 21st century Pause… blah,blah,blah…)
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September 27, 2015 9:35pm
stephieboy

Maggy W, din’t know about the fate of the Forestry service at the hands of Greens . Pity as it seems they were doing some fine works on the Kauri and its sustainable commercial possibilities !
Was this it’s fate ?,
http://maxa.maf.govt.nz/mafnet/unff-planted-forestry-meeting/conference-papers/exit-of-state-from-plantations.htm
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September 27, 2015 9:56pm
Nostradamus

Nasska:

For instance, recently I had to make a choice: spend 250 thousand dollars on experimental cancer treatment to possibly save the life of a single child or spend it on a proven treatment for ten adult alcoholics with self-inflicted liver disease.

Bereal was hoping you’d spend the money on the proven treatment for self-inflicted liver disease.

*Hic*
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September 27, 2015 9:57pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@stephieboy

there is so much history that some of you young chaps haven’t caught up with.
Actually I hadn’t realised until today that you were on the youthful side….
most of us here were at Kindy with Methuselah.
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September 27, 2015 10:03pm
Manolo

The savages attack each other: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-26/iran-escalates-criticism-of-saudi-arabia-after-fatal-stampede

Iranian officials escalated their criticism of Saudi Arabia’s Hajj pilgrimage after at least 717 were killed in a stampede near the holy city of Mecca last week.

More than 130 Iranian pilgrims were killed in the worst Hajj disaster in a quarter century in Mina, an encampment outside Mecca. The Islamic Republic plans to sue the kingdom with at international legal bodies, Prosecutor General Ibrahim Raeesi said, according to state-run television.
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September 28, 2015 6:52am
Manolo

A good article on the lunatic socialist Corbyn: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11894360/Labours-next-leader-could-come-from-either-side-of-the-party.html
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September 28, 2015 7:06am
Viking2

Two murderers face becoming NZ’s first criminals jailed for life without parole

Three Strikes Law Turns Five

In the five years since the three strikes law was introduced, 81 repeat violent criminals have received final warnings that they risk being sent to jail forever if they violently reoffend.

None had gained their third strike.

A further 5422 offenders had been given their first strike under the 2010 Sentencing and Parole Reform Act, which was introduced in June 2010 to give tough new consequences to repeat serious violent offenders.

Corrections Department statistics, released under the Official Information Act, showed in the five years before the law was brought in, 256 criminals were convicted of a second or subsequent violent offence that would have fallen under the three strikes law.

Victims’ lobby group Sensible Sentencing Trust, which backed the law, believed the figures showed it was working as an effective deterrent to reoffending.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/72393483/two-murderers-face-becoming-nzs-first-criminals-jailed-for-life-without-parole

“It’s primary purpose was to incarcerate the bad guys, but being a deterrence of others is a bonus,” said the trust’s lawyer, David Garrett, the former ACT politician who promoted the three strikes law’s introduction while in Parliament

===============================================
If only every MP could produce such life changing Regulations.

Stand Tall Mr Garrett.
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September 28, 2015 7:14am
Viking2

Fall in aluminium price pushing Tiwai Pt into red: analyst

A startling slump in the price of aluminium on global markets is more than offsetting a 20 per cent fall in the New Zealand dollar against the greenback, pushing the Tiwai Pt aluminium smelter into negative cashflow, according to estimates by Wellin
gton investment firm Woodward Partners.

“The deterioration in aluminium market conditions since the second quarter of 2015 has been startling,” the note says, with London Metal Exchange prices for aluminium falling to a six-year low of US$1496 a tonne, and forward projections suggesting recovery more slowly and to lower levels than previous assumed, reaching US$1800 a tonne in 2018.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11519845

So not looking good. for either the smelter nor the power companies.
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September 28, 2015 7:26am
Viking2

Motorists delayed after Matamata crash
7:14 AM Monday Sep 28, 2015

Police are warning of delays in the area. File photo

Two trucks have collided near Matamata and police are warning of delays in the area.

Police said the trucks collided on the Mangawhero Bridge on State Highway 24 near Matamata about 5.25am.

No injuries have been reported in the crash, but police said one lane of the bridge is blocked and motorists should expect delays while tow trucks are arranged for the truck

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11520000

=============================

Yep one of many old bridges on the main traffic routes to and from the BOP that need replacing. But Simple Simon thinks the Northland ones with a few cars a day are more important. Time he drove his car over the hill each day or out to Waihi.
NZTA need a boot up the arse over these narrow old bridges.
It’s only a matter of time before one collapses under the 60 tonners.
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September 28, 2015 7:30am

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