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September 20, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 September 2015

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SPC

No Manolo, you deliberately said in your post to the liberal multi-cultural apologist stephieboy, your violent “fellow Moslems” – to mimic the fellow traveller language of times past.
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September 20, 2015 12:34pm
Manolo

The loony Corbyn has started the fun: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11877539/Jeremy-Corbyns-shame-over-Queen-slur.html

Jeremy Corbyn was under intense pressure last night after his peace movement published a “disgraceful” diatribe against the Queen.

A poem on the front page of the Stop the War Coalition website alleges that the Queen has a “criminal record” and is “lubricating Britain’s wars”, while the Royal family are arm dealers…
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September 20, 2015 12:36pm
starboard

Home October Ballsack..back again in May.
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September 20, 2015 12:44pm
cha

I wouldn’t be surprised if the questioner was a plant, to be honest

Fletch the birther claims Trump’s questioner was a “plant” – hilarity ensues.
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September 20, 2015 1:08pm
wiseowl

Agent.
Could be the end of the world if the AB’s don’t win the world cup!

Anyone notice all the drunks falling over themselves and upsetting people after the game this morning?

If not the Gweens will be relieved.
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September 20, 2015 1:09pm
Nookin

Dave_1924

It has been a long time since I dealt with the criminal law so if FE Smith is listening his views would be helpful. You (and Chuck) are correct in the sense that there is a perception that this guy may only have been mildly inconvenienced by the sentence and that the court’s direction that he not be eleigible for parole until he had served 25′ years instead of 17 years may have satisfied the blood lust.

In reality, it may have made not the slightest difference. He is unlikely to see the light of day again unless there is a very dramatic and irreversible turn around (unlikely).

Chuck, I do not think that PD. would make any practical difference. He aint goin nowhere!

Having said that, a favourale perception of the situation by the public is important and I would not be averse to a law change that directs the courts to be more conscious of the need to be preserving public safety.
There is some irony in all this as David Garret will no doubt attest. He achieved such a law which had been decried by many and which will be repealed by labour if they get in. DG has also be pilloried, persoanlly on this site because of it. A further irony is that among the many recent cases where parole has been denied on the ground that there is a risk to public safety is one Scott Watson. I wonder where some will stand if the government bows to pressure groups and pardons him only to see him commit a violent crime? After all, the parole board has given the warning?
PS
We have some really shit cases that give most of us the heeby jeebies thinking about. Maybe someone could dwell, momentarily, on the thousands of cases where the courts and the police have got it exactly right?
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September 20, 2015 1:26pm
Michael

Re Trump.
The problem is it seems the more the media lambaste him the more popular he becomes.
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September 20, 2015 1:31pm
Dave_1924

@Nookin…. cheers. Fair enough the Police do get a lot right.

But as you touched on the sentencing needs to be SEEN to be right in the publics eyes

There will be cases like the Stephen Dudley one where there is an outcry but reading the judgment you can see how the Judge arrived at the sentencing.

But in this case we should see the judiciary show that this guy is as good as buried and will never get out ever… not issue a non sentence for attempted murder.

Oh and I take umbrage at the use of “blood lust”.

This guy bashed a child to death with a bit of wood. And now, because he doesn’t want to be in general population in prison, he has tried to kill another inmate. Frankly if your blood doesn’t get up a little when confronted with this level of utter disregard for others life then I am wondering what would get you riled.

And I haven’t called for his blood. I have called for him to never, ever see the light of day as a free man. He should be buried in a prison in my view.
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September 20, 2015 1:44pm
Tauhei Notts

Pre treaty cannibalism?
Kimble Bent, in James Cowan’s 1911 book, referred to the Maori expression for white men.
“Long Pork”
They tasted like pork and were longer on a spit roast than pigs were.
Bent had deserted the British army to join the Hau hau in about 1867. Twenty seven years after the Treaty was signed.
That book records parts of New Zealand’s raw unwashed history before the sanitisation of New Zealand history had commenced.
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September 20, 2015 1:44pm
PhilP

“Re Trump.
The problem is it seems the more the media lambaste him the more popular he becomes”.

Just like the left MSM and left politicians have done with John Key.
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September 20, 2015 1:48pm
RF

One Muslim does not make a terrorist but a few thousand would really worry me.

I have a friend whose son and his girl friend are currently in the UK on their OE. Both are professional people and very concerned about what is happening over there. After some nasty incidents involving Muslims both are now going to come back to NZ early.

I was told that we should not be surprised to see UK residents heading down here as migrants to avoid what’s happening in good old Mother England. The open door policy has really stuffed the country.

We must keep our country free of these evil dangerous individuals who will not tolerate non believers of the Muslim faith….
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September 20, 2015 1:52pm
Keeping Stock

@ Dave_1924 – although I’m no legal expert, I would say the chances of Williams ever being released from prison are somewhere between extremely slim and absolutely none. The fact that he has tried to murder someone, while already serving a life sentence for murder will surely be viewed by the Parole Board as making him extremely likely to reoffend should he be released.
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September 20, 2015 1:53pm
stephieboy

Manolo (17,509 comments) says:
September 20th, 2015 at 12:12 p

You will agree with the idea, stephieboy: Fewer of your violent fellow Muslims would be good for the world.

Yes , obviously fewer violent Muslims like any body else , including violent fellow Serbian Orthodox Christians or Northern Irish Terrorists would be good for the world !
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September 20, 2015 1:54pm
mikenmild

Tell us more about this ‘sanitisation’ of New Zealand history, Tauhei Notts.
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September 20, 2015 1:56pm
Nookin

Cheers, Dave
Dont get upset out the term blood lust. I used it figuratively as depicting a sense of outrage. My reaction to this guy was that they should have thrown away the key. They have not been seen to do that, which can generate some angst, but, in reality, that is what they have done.
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September 20, 2015 2:00pm
AgentBallSack

Keeping Stock

The fact that he has tried to murder someone, while already serving a life sentence for murder will surely be viewed by the Parole Board as making him extremely likely to reoffend should he be released.

Yet they still let people vote Labour even though they’re extremely likely to do so in coming elections. Potayto, Potahto
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September 20, 2015 2:03pm
AgentBallSack

Sanitisation of New Zealand history lesson one:

The Mori Oris died out because of the cold.
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September 20, 2015 2:09pm
nasska

….”The Mori Oris died out because of the cold”….. because the evil white man didn’t wrap them in free blankets thereby committing genocide.

FIFY. No rewriting of history (even bogus history) is complete without a condemnation of the Pakeha.
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September 20, 2015 2:19pm
mikenmild

The Mori Oris died out because of the cold.

Citation please.
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September 20, 2015 2:23pm
Griff

The information on white man killing of maori can be found at
www outmyarse.com
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September 20, 2015 2:30pm
Tauhei Notts

Mikenmild asks about the sanitisation of New Zealand history.
A good place to see it is South Taranaki.
Compare the expensively appointed taxpayer funded museum at Patea with the privately shoestring funded Tawhiti Museum near Hawera.
The Patea museum extols the virtues of the peace loving (sic) Titiwokaru, whereas the Tawhiti Museum shows 19th century Taranaki history warts and all.
Actually, that Tawhiti Museum is a hidden gem for New Zealand. Just like the Eastwood Hill Arboretum near Gisborne. Many people have heard of neither of them and they are both very well worth while visiting.
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September 20, 2015 2:31pm
nasska

….”Citation please.”…..

Com’on Mike. This is the history of Aotearoa & the dreadful consequences of colonisation on the aborginals.

Facts are optional & extra…..all that is required is a liberal dose of PC & a claim of “a Maori once told me”.
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September 20, 2015 2:31pm
big bruv

“I was told that we should not be surprised to see UK residents heading down here as migrants to avoid what’s happening in good old Mother England. ”

They have been coming here for that very reason for five years now. I deal with a lot of them, nearly all will tell you (once you get past the PC bullshit) that the number of Muslims and the stifling PC attitude towards anything regarding Islam means they don’t even recognise their own country.
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September 20, 2015 2:31pm
mikenmild

Did you not know that Titokowaru became a leading supporter of the pacifist Te Whiti?
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September 20, 2015 2:32pm
starboard

MM’s just being his normal gay contrary self. Say black , mm says white. The useful idiot, that’s mm.
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September 20, 2015 2:38pm
mikenmild

Always talking gay, starboard? Obsessed much?
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September 20, 2015 2:41pm
stigie

The feeling is he might like to hold ya sausage Milky…”
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September 20, 2015 2:46pm
Nostradamus

Only on “take off and landing” apparently, Stigie.

I’m sensing Starboard included a hidden meaning in there!
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September 20, 2015 2:52pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Jack 5 11:32am

I’ve relistened to the Hazel Petrie interview. I think you’ve taken a rather extreme view of her comments.
It is pretty clear that she is talking about the various perceptions that attach to Maori and European views of slavery and how it is difficult to tease out the actual status of a low-ranked person in Maori Society in the 19th C.
She’s pretty upfront that she’s just talking about some exceptions to the usual story of lifetime servitude/slavery when she discusses the few who became successful in life.

Re the Taranaki invaders on the Chathams.. I don’t think she even discussed the slaughter of the Moriori… she just mentioned how the Taranaki Maori used a trans-literal word to refer to them… and not the more common words in use for slave/prisoner such as taurekareka or pononga.

anyway, here’s the clip
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/201771313/hazel-petrie-slavery-and-maori
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September 20, 2015 2:55pm
starboard

Funny much..stupid brain deads funding the parasites lifestyle lol !

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/72221190/bishop-tamaki-lords-his-monthlong-luxury-trip-on-social-media
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September 20, 2015 3:06pm
Nostradamus

Barrie Cassidy has written an article entitled A united Coalition under Turnbull would be almost unbeatable.

This part of the article caught my eye:

If you doubt the rise of Malcolm Turnbull has significantly boosted the prospects of the Coalition Government being re-elected, then consider this.

A leading betting agency has already paid out to all those who backed the Coalition to win.

That premature settlement of accounts was rare even in the days of Black Caviar. It is an unprecedented assumption to make on a new leader’s first day in office.

Can anyone explain how that works?
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September 20, 2015 3:08pm
publicwatchdog

Miss this Kiwibloggers?

Rather historic coverage – for the first time mainstream media have published a photo which alerts the public to the TRUTH – that NZ Prime Minister John Key is a shareholder in the Bank of America?

http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/00CLOOCMPPFinInterests20151/8bb43d9064b110c1

(Page 29)

Rt Hon John Key (National, Helensville)
2 Other companies and business entities
Little Nell – property investment (Aspen, Colorado)

Bank of America – banking
___________________________________________________________________________________________

Media coverage of the Auckland TPPA – WALK AWAY! protest Friday 18 September 2015 outside Titirangi Golf Course

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11515195

TPPA activists vocal outside Key, Groser function

Friday, 18 September 2015
The New Zealand Herald

Protestors wearing masks ready to greet PM John Key and Trade Minister Tim Groser in New Lynn. Photo / Alex Mason
By Alex Mason

Anti Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement protesters have turned up to a function in Auckland where the Prime Minister John Key and Trade Minister Tim Groser are due to speak.

A small but vocal protest at the Titirangi Golf Club is underway, with protesters wearing masks and waving placards.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright
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September 20, 2015 3:21pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Tauhei Notts 2:31pm

Yep, the Tawhiti museum is great. Its just up the road from the rellies… so we always call in.
The Traders & Whalers exhibit is excellent.. surpasses anything else I’ve ever seen in a NZ museum.

Eastwoodhill is looking good at the moment. I told my friends to come up late April & May to see the autumn displays… but spring is also a great time to visit.
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September 20, 2015 3:23pm
Keeping Stock

@ Penny – your obsession with the PM is getting worrying. You should seek professional help (meant in the nicest possible way, of course).
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September 20, 2015 3:32pm
rightoverlabour

Tragically some zoo keeper has been killed by one of the tigers at the zoo. They are talking about possibly killing the tiger. Could anyone give me a good reason as to why?
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September 20, 2015 3:38pm
Manolo

It seems inevitable: http://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-biden-edges-closer-to-joining-presidential-race-1442617215

Vice President Joe Biden’s aides in recent days called Democratic donors and supporters to suggest he is more likely than not to enter the 2016 race, and their discussions have shifted toward the timing of an announcement, said people familiar with the matter.
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September 20, 2015 4:08pm
Fletch

Fletch the birther claims Trump’s questioner was a “plant” – hilarity ensues.

Because there’s no way that would ever happen? Why not?
Surely it wouldn’t be that hard to do.
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September 20, 2015 4:11pm
Ross12

Nostradamus

The early payout by the bookies for the Canning by election is just a publicity stunt for the bookies. The Irish bookies did a similar thing a few years back. They just figure the odds of them being wrong are very slim and so the gamble on their part is worth the publicity.

I find it amazing how the Australian media are “all a buzz” over Turnbull.( Most would never vote for the Liberals) They seem to think they have their man in power for what they see as key policies –climate change and gay marriage. They conveniently forget Turnbull has already agreed with the Nationals he will not change the coalition’ stance on either of these policies, this term
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September 20, 2015 4:12pm
nasska

From: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/72226055/tiger-kills-keeper-at-hamilton-zoo

….”He could not rule out Oz having to be eventually euthanised as a consequence of the attack. For the meantime he and the other tigers were all being “securely contained”.”…..

Does this mean that normal practice was to have the tigers ‘insecurely contained’? Still I guess it’s easier to put down a rare Sumatran tiger than figure out a way to keep an adequate fence between a born killer & its human keeper.

Don’t punish the tiger for doing what comes naturally…..blame the halfwit executive employed by the Hamilton CC who is responsible for the zoo!
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September 20, 2015 4:15pm
Manolo

A Chardonnay, if not Champagne, socialist badmouths the nutter Corbyn:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11876087/Chuka-Umunna-suggests-Jeremy-Corbyns-victory-could-lead-to-riots.html
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September 20, 2015 4:22pm
mikenmild

Fletch
No one needs to plant anyone in the audiences for Trump to look stupid. He is doing that very well on his own.
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September 20, 2015 4:28pm
Fletch

mm, I’m not sure how Trump would go as president. He sure isn’t subtle – I’ll say that – but I don’t think there is any denying that (unlike Obama) he loves America, and I bet he’d get rid of a lot of the shit that Obama saddled the country with during his abysmal tenure and get start to get America back on track.
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September 20, 2015 4:32pm
Manolo

The Kenyan has done more damage to the US than ten Trumps put together would. The community organiser will go down in history as a lamentable president.
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September 20, 2015 4:35pm
Awww C-mon

“but I don’t think there is any denying that (unlike Obama) he loves America”

I’ll deny it and ask for proof, what a stupid comment!

Does lead to this question, who would be the closet in NZ Politics to a trump and would they survive? Im sure y’all have had this conversation but i missed it
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September 20, 2015 4:37pm
mikenmild

How do you claim that Obama does not love America?
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September 20, 2015 4:38pm
Griff

Trump
😆
😆
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MppFqU20jc
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September 20, 2015 4:42pm
Gabby

Was zookeeper classified high or low risk?
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September 20, 2015 4:49pm
nasska

It’s not that Trump is particularly promising that invites comment.

It’s the fact that Obama is so abysmally bad he makes anyone look good by comparison.
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September 20, 2015 4:49pm
Manolo

More from Trump (on Obama): http://nypost.com/2015/09/19/trump-says-he-has-no-moral-obligation-to-defend-obama/

“Am I morally obligated to defend the president every time somebody says something bad or controversial about him? I don’t think so!,” Trump wrote, referring to his refusal to correct a man who called President Obama a Muslim at a campaign event Thursday.
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September 20, 2015 4:57pm
Komata

nasska

Concerning the Tiger and its probable demise:

The difficulty is that, by killing its Keeper (and food provider) the Tiger has now learned two things; (a) That Humans are easy to kill, and (b) their blood (and, ipso facto, Humans themselves) tastes nice.

As a result, it is now dangerous to all and any Human that comes near it. The British learnt this in India where the term ‘Man- eating Tiger’ meant literally that – a Tiger that had developed a taste for human flesh since humans are a ‘soft’ (non-resisting) prey and easily obtainable because of their numbers. That they also also taste nice is evidenced by the repeat attacks that such creatures would make on the villagers where the Tiger ‘lurked’. Had the ‘taste’ not been pleasant, the attacks would not have continued. Unlike the present case, in India, the Tigers tended to be older, sometimes semi-toothless and / or physically injured and frequently incapable of ‘fending for themselves’ in the wild. In such situations the discovery (usually accidental apparently), that a two-legged food supply was passing-by along a jungle track with great frequency was too good a chance to pass up. FWIW, BTW, I am advised that Tigers still occasionally seek human prey even in modern India…

In view of the above, what options are available? There are ultimately only two. These are: To let the animal live (knowing the realities as I have outlined) is to be waiting for a time-bomb to explode, and is a situation that no-one in their right mind could dare countenance (despite any amount of financial inducement made to its ‘carer’s); or to solve the problem by killing the animal, especially as by so-doing the ‘time bomb’ is effectively defused.

Logic says that the second option is the only really acceptable one, yet despite the realities and the very distinct likelihood of the animal ‘re-offending’ it is probable t no doubt the ‘animal-enthusiasts’ will have none of this option, suggesting that the poor unfortunate animal can be ‘rehabilitated’ and will never commit such an offence again. Sadly, wild animals (and this Tiger is still, ultimately, a wild animal) are never able to be ‘rehabilitated’ and it would probably take (at least) a second fatality before the ‘do-gooders’ realise that they were wrong, and even then some will never agree. It could of course be suggested that, if they are that concerned, the ‘animal rights’ enthusiasts take full responsibility for the animal (and the time-bomb previously alluded-to) yet noticeably (and for some strange reason), when faced with such an option, the words and actions of such groups / people are very rarely the same, and like ice in the sun, they fade away…

These are, of course, merely the facts. If you DO believe that said Tiger can be ‘saved / rehabilitated’ I would be interested in hearing how you would go about this.

Thanks.
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September 20, 2015 5:07pm
nasska

Komata

A fair & full summation & I agree that the tiger will probably be put down for the reasons you outline. Also my sympathies to the family of the unfortunate woman keeper.

Fact remains that there are less than 500 Sumatran tigers left in the wild & the loss of any potential bloodline hastens their extinction. Keeping animals in zoos is less than ideal but at least ensures their survival but they are wild animals, cannot be domesticated & should be treated as such.

I suppose that in time we may find out why the unfortunate woman was in a position to be attacked but for now I’d like to see the slimy managers of the zoo held accountable. Executives are two a penny……tigers & keepers are not!
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September 20, 2015 5:21pm
graphite

Here’s how Mark Steyn reckons Trump (or any Republican candidate) should answer the press when he is questioned about not calling out a member of his audience for saying Obama is a Muslim —

Unlike Hillary Clinton’s under-attended “rallies”, a voter doesn’t have to undergo a background check or sign a piece of paper pledging to support her in the election before being permitted into a Republican candidate’s presence. So at our campaign events there are all kinds of people with all kinds of views – and it goes without saying I won’t agree with them all. If you find that odd, maybe you’ve been covering Hillary too long.

The whole thing is here: http://www.steynonline.com/7188/get-lost-you-palace-guard-creep
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September 20, 2015 5:34pm
AgentBallSack

Elephant kills keeper – Another chance at life across the world.
Tiger kills keeper – Shot for doing what comes natural to tigers.

Major difference? Tigers eat meat.
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September 20, 2015 5:49pm
Komata

Nasska

Thank you. On first reading of the article, I’not sure that the zoo management are culpable in this case, since working with ‘wild’ animals is an area of total unpredictability; the animal might love you today, and kill you tomorrow – such is the nature of any wild creature. The keeper would have been aware of the hazards associated with her trade and taken such steps as she could to minimise them. Short of operating by ‘remote control’ there is absolutely no way to avoid contact in such situations. The use of the word ‘attack’ implies pre-thought on the part of the animal, but without further information and details of the nature of the damage that the Tiger inflicted, this cannot be substantiated; it could be as simple as a ‘fun-inspired’ (let’s play a game) leaping onto the keeper from behind ( since Tigers tend to attack from that direction; their prey’s ‘blind spot’), or….!! It’s the ‘Or’ which can’t be discussed at present, although one hopes that it wasn’t a deliberate and calculated affair (which Tigers are quite capable of BTW, they are very clever creatures). The report does however raise one question (at least for me). This is: was the keeper alone in the enclosure at the time? I understand that international (and standard) zoo operating protocols call for two keepers to be in an enclosure where ‘dangerous’ animals are present, yet the article make no mention of this. One wonders why?

As I said, zoo management can only ‘protect’ to an extent; ultimately it comes down to choices and actions. it seems that today, the keeper and Tiger both made theirs, with the results that we are now discussing. The Coroners Report should make for an interesting read.

Again, thanks for your reply.
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September 20, 2015 6:00pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Komata, Nasska

There is (or should be) a double-lock system that operates between keepers and dangerous zoo animals.
If protocols are carried out correctly it should never be possible for a keeper to be in an enclosure while the animal is unconfined.
i.e. the keeper does not enter an enclosure until the animal is confined and locked into a safe compartment.
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September 20, 2015 6:23pm
Fletch

And so it begins…

Propaganda on ‘gender diversity’ led by Rainbow Youth and funded by the Ministry of Social Development is being taught in intermediate and high school classrooms in New Zealand. There’s a special place in hell for those people who lead innocent children into sin.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/inside-out-bringing-awareness-to-high-school-students-q11540
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September 20, 2015 7:01pm
nasska

I just found out that the recent Chile earthquake was actually a conspiracy to cover up John Key’s personal involvement in WW2 .

It’s a good thing I read the Herald.
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September 20, 2015 7:02pm
Chuck Bird

Has anyone seen the poll results on TV3 – particularly in regards the flag. Only 25% want to change the flag after seeing the options. Will Key insist on wastes the rest of the money on his legacy? His legacy will be a hypocritical spend thrift.
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September 20, 2015 7:10pm
Griff

There’s a special place in hell for those people who lead innocent children into sin.
😆
But fletching.
Your church teaches man is inherently sinful.
God made us all like that is he going to hell?
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September 20, 2015 7:10pm
nasska

…..”So-called “gender diverse” propaganda led by Rainbow Youth and funded by the Ministry of Social Development is being taught in intermediate and high school classrooms in New Zealand. “….

I’m sorry that you had to read that Fletch. Can you attend one of these classes so that you can tell us about the depravity you experience. In particular whether after the lesson you feel:

a) More gay

b) Less gay

c) Just as gay as you were before.

Thanks.
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September 20, 2015 7:12pm
mikenmild

Special place in hell…pffft. What is it with your weirdos and your imaginary vengeful god?
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September 20, 2015 7:14pm
Reid

…people who lead innocent ~~children in~~to sin

Are the opposite of what we should be striving to achieve as a species Griff.

Not rocket science, is it.

What is it with your weirdos and your imaginary vengeful god?

What is it with you idiots who feel free to comment on subjects you know nothing about? I mean, do you enter into debates about whether E really does equal the square of the speed of light mm?

Or do you simply abstain because you don’t really understand the material?

If you take the former, then why do you feel you need to inject your profound ignorance into discussions like the above?
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September 20, 2015 7:15pm
Aliog

I see Paddy Gower is trumpeting the great result of both John Key and National in the polls as a ‘failure of John Key to convince people to change the flag’. So…two thoughts: Paddy is a news manufacturer rather than a reporter (yes, I know… we all KNOW that), and John is on a hiding to nothing with his obsession to get a fern on the flag. Shame…I quite like the fern.
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September 20, 2015 7:16pm
AgentBallSack

Consumer Magazine calling for incandescent bulbs to be outlawed. Since it’s now in the media, we can expect National to run with it. Goodbye National, this was your showerhead moment.
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September 20, 2015 7:17pm
Griff

Reid the concept of original sin and rocket science are mutual exclusive concepts .
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September 20, 2015 7:21pm
nasska

Reid quotes Griff:

….”…people who lead innocent children into sin”….

Then adds:

…..”Are the opposite of what we should be striving to achieve as a species.”….

But the article states:

…..”Half of all transgender students are reportedly afraid of being hurt at school.”…..

Which is the greater sin Reid…..knowledge the church doesn’t approve of or torture?
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September 20, 2015 7:22pm
Awww C-mon

@aliog, Im a keep the flag guy but firmly believe it will be change, even with this poll out. The vote to pick the contender will happen, the changers will get behind it and build some momentum. Paddy and HDPA and their mates will bandwagon and it will be a closely run thing. They just need to decide to hate something more than Key.
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September 20, 2015 7:25pm
Aliog

This is for big bruv…with a massive FUCK YOU attached http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/72219882/michael-jones-the-all-blacks-are-us-and-we-are-them
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September 20, 2015 7:41pm
Aliog

@ Awww C-mon I can live with our current flag. But I also respect that New Zealanders fought and died for the fern as well. (Check out the war cemetries overseas…and their emblems going into battle.) I just think John Key has miscalulated this one – to our detriment. But at least we don’t have to vote on the stupid Red Peak flag.
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September 20, 2015 7:45pm
starboard

Afternoon fags..
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September 20, 2015 8:12pm
big bruv

Aliog

You are a very, very, sad person .
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September 20, 2015 8:12pm
stephieboy

Manolo (17,514 comments) says:
September 20th, 2015 at 4:35 pm
The Kenyan has done more damage to the US than ten Trumps put together would. The community organiser will go down in history as a lamentable president.

Only if your a deluded birther such as yourself
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September 20, 2015 8:14pm
Maggy Wassilieff

do you enter into debates about whether E really does equal the square of the speed of light mm?

Well I’m happy to debate this MATTER.
and there’s my clue.
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September 20, 2015 8:15pm
Reid

nasska don’t understand your question.

What does the or even a church have to do with:

…people who corrupt children…?

Try not to confuse church with Bible. Many people do.
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September 20, 2015 8:26pm
Kimbo

@ Aliog

This is for big bruv…with a massive FUCK YOU attached http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/72219882/michael-jones-the-all-blacks-are-us-and-we-are-them

I know it is heresy, as Michael Jones is a real nice guy, and clever, and was a truly great player. But why does he write such saccharin rubbish as

“Indeed, humility and the common touch have underpinned the success of the very best All Black teams I played in”.

Sean Fitzpatrick, for instance had a lot of great qualities that made him a brilliant competitor…but humility certainly wasn’t one of them! That is not meant as a criticism of Fitzpatrick, because I don’t look for or expect humility in top sports people.

Instead All Blacks are ultimately like the rest of us, with the same good and bad characteristics. There is a reason the saying “What happens on tour stays on tour” developed in the context of international rugby tours.
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September 20, 2015 8:44pm
nasska

I don’t see the question as being particularly ambiguous Reid. Fletch had his tits in a tangle over “gender diversity” being explained as part of intermediate & secondary school curricula. He went as far as stating that, “There’s a special place in hell for those people who lead innocent children into sin.

The way I read subsequent comments it seemed that Griff disagreed but you endorsed Fletch’s stand.

All I wish to know is whether in this case it is better to:

1) Risk a mythical hell by giving out information about gender diversity

OR

2) Standing back & watching such youngsters bullied because of the ignorance of their tormentors.
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September 20, 2015 9:23pm
Reid

“There’s a special place in hell for those people who lead innocent children into sin.

nasska don’t you know anything? You seriously have never even heard of Jesus famous passage in Matthew 18.6:

“If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

I mean, seriously? Really? Are you joking?

I’m not even debating now nasska. For someone of your generation claiming never to have to heard of that most famous passage indicates to me something real serious lacking.
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September 20, 2015 9:37pm
nasska

So you endorse the bullying & torture option Reid?
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September 20, 2015 9:43pm
Reid

Fine. Prefer not to argue nasska.
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September 20, 2015 9:52pm
SPC

Reid, given what we know about the impact of abuse on children, I would rate the bullying and abuse of children as comparable/equivalent (a context to the meaning of) leading the innocent child astray.
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September 20, 2015 9:56pm
cha

Because there’s no way that would ever happen? Why not?
Surely it wouldn’t be that hard to do.

Fletch the birther says birthers aren’t birthers because Surely it wouldn’t be that hard to do
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September 20, 2015 11:04pm
Manolo

The missus says yes: http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/sources-joe-biden-has-wifes-support-wh-bid-n430531
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September 21, 2015 7:42am

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