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September 12, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 12 September 2015

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General Debate

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Gabby

Those tents are for the Holy War, not housing Shi’ite scum.
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September 12, 2015 6:31pm
Reid

So….

You don’t know, do you Fletch.

But Gabby does. Although Salafi is a more accurate description than Shi’ite.
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September 12, 2015 6:32pm
Nostradamus

Reid:

I’ll start with a confession: I haven’t followed your contributions on the Middle East situation (or those of anyone else for that matter) all that closely.

But, if you’ll allow me to ask a question, what’s your solution to the Middle East situation?

As I understand it, the battle lines are generally based on sectarian differences, and those sectarian differences are increasingly being transferred to Western countries. See this article (the source is unimportant – I’ve randomly selected it from a list of Google search results):

Muslim community leaders in Australia say sectarian tensions are soaring, as radicalized Sunni youth, inspired by ISIS, seek to import the religious conflicts wracking the Middle East. “The tensions are very high and will continue to be high,” said Jamal Daoud, a Shia community leader in Sydney, where a 47-year old Shia leader was shot in the shoulder early Monday morning, as worshipers observed the Shia ritual of Ashura.
…
The attack was only one incident in a string of attacks and threats against Shia Muslims by Sunni extremists who sympathized with ISIS, he claimed, and had followed an incident where a group of men had driven past the Islamic center, yelling comments such as “IS lives forever” and “Shia dogs” in Arabic.
…
Jamal Rifi, a Sydney-based GP and Sunni community leader, agreed, saying sectarian tensions were at an unprecedented level as a result of the brutal Syrian conflict, and the appeal of ISIS to radicalized Sunni youth in Australia.
…

During previous periods when Australian Muslims had felt under attack — such as in the wake of the September 11 attacks, the Bali bombings or the Cronulla riots — they had bonded together under a common identity. But now many in the community felt doubly under fire — from sectarian agitators and from “rednecks” in the wider public, said Daoud.
…

So, if this is the situation in West Sydney, what realistic hope is there of finding a Middle East solution?
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September 12, 2015 6:33pm
Reid

It’s a big subject Nosty and hard therefore to cover off in a blog post let alone a dissertation.

I can tell you in a heartbeat, but you won’t buy it because the conclusion relies on years of research and understanding of thousands of geopolitical incidents. But it’s not rocket science and this is not my opinion, it’s a no-brainer conclusion shared by millions if not billions of people who know these things – the only people who don’t understand this are most of the Western population: Expose Israeli interference in all the ME regimes and eliminate that interference through sunlight.

And this is my own personal view: At the same time protect Israel from the utter outrage that will follow from said exposure.

That’s the solution.

But you can’t understand Israel’s place in global geopolitics unless you also understand religion, because at the heart of the Israeli controllers’ motivation to meddle not only in ME affairs but also in Western affairs too (look at their influence in US politics for example, look what they did when we exposed their agents here, etc etc etc), is their desire and requirement ultimately to destroy Israel.

At which point I suspect I’ve lost you because most people can’t handle that a spiritual battle in which Israel is at the centre, is happening at the very same time as the world is turning. Which is a shame, because that understanding is critical.
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September 12, 2015 6:46pm
cha

what realistic hope is there of finding a Middle East solution?

Peace hasn’t got a chance?.

A young Jewish American man has been charged with pretending to be an Australian-based Islamic State jihadist after a FBI joint investigation with the Australian Federal Police based on information provided by Fairfax Media.

Joshua Ryne Goldberg, a 20-year old living at his parents’ house in US state of Florida, is accused of posing online as “Australi Witness,” an IS supporter who publicly called for a series of attacks against individuals and events in western countries.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/australian-is-jihadist-is-actually-an-jewish-american-troll-20150911-gjk852.html
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September 12, 2015 6:52pm
Nostradamus

Thanks Reid.

Let’s assume that you’re correct – the solution is to “[e]xpose Israeli interference in all the ME regimes and eliminate that interference through sunlight”. Other Kiwiblog readers will strongly disagree with you, I suspect, but let’s move on.

How, then, will that solution resolve what seem to be intractable differences between Sunni and Shia Muslims – and that’s before we introduce the Kurds as a third factor in this complex Middle East problem?

By the way, I don’t pretend to have any answers, but I’m interested in your opinions as you’ve obviously spent a lot of time thinking about these sorts of issues.
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September 12, 2015 6:53pm
Nostradamus

Extension keeps Prime Minister ponytail case alive

Private prosecutor Graham McCready has been granted a retrospective extension to file papers in relation to his case against Prime Minister John Key over ‘ponytail-gate’.

The Hamilton-based litigant, who runs New Zealand Private Prosecution Service, has taken Mr Key to the Human Rights Tribunal over the incident earlier this year when a waitress spoke out about the Prime Minister repeatedly tugging on her hair when he visited the Parnell cafe where she worked.

Mr Key’s lawyers attempted to get the case struck out, and Mr McCready had until August 31 to file his submissions for why the case should remain before the tribunal.

However, due to medical reasons Mr McCready was not able to submit his papers until September 4.

I’ll be very interested to see how McCready tries to argue that this is a “human rights” issue that should properly be heard by the Human Rights Tribunal – particularly when he wasn’t a directed affected party, and also particularly when Ms Bailey (the directy affected party) doesn’t want to be involved in McCready’s case.
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September 12, 2015 7:00pm
cricko

Nostrodamus,

you really are just a silly joke mate.

You say, “I haven’t followed your contributions,,,however, what is your solution to the middle east question ?

‘Scuse the french, but you must be a certifiable congenital fucking idiot.

Reid even wastes his effort to reply to you in good faith then you come back with, ‘How then blah, blah…..’

A congenital certifiable fucking idiot
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September 12, 2015 7:00pm
mikenmild

Nosty
The key to Reid’s approach is:

a spiritual battle in which Israel is at the centre

Reid is a religious zealot with peculiar views about Israel and the Jews, so he sees world events through a rather distorted prism.
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September 12, 2015 7:01pm
Reid

Nosty Israel did 911 and its plan was always to split Iraq into 3: Sunni, Shi’ite and Kurd, in which the Kurds have all the oil.

They used the US to do their dirty work with the US blood and treasure and while from 2003 on the US was spending said blood and treasure, poor widdle Iswael was busy becoming great friends with the Kurds. The reason they were doing this is because the Kurdish homeland is over Iraq’s major oilfields.

Sadly, once the US sheeple recognise the fact Israel did 911, all they’ll want to do is wipe poor widdle Iswael from the face of the earth.

Hence my comment that its essential to protect Israel once these revelations come out.

Seriously mate, there’s no point in talking to you about this, in a public forum, because facts like I’ve just stated are, to the sheeple who read them, outrageous slanderous untruths which must be condemned, so there’s really no point in continuing the discussion, because it’s just going to cause a massive shitfight, and I can’t answer your questions unless I put these facts on the table, and they are facts, period, and if you don’t believe me, then look at the evidence yourself and no, I’m not going to give it to you, because you can drive google yourself. Read Christopher Bollyn’s book if you want to.
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September 12, 2015 7:02pm
Nostradamus

Cricko:

‘Scuse the french, but you must be a certifiable congenital fucking idiot.

Oh no – the class spastic has called me horrible names!

Of course, Reid and I go back a long way on Kiwiblog and we can talk to each other respectfully, but we don’t want to let anything like that get in the way of Cricko’s rant.
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September 12, 2015 7:03pm
Nostradamus

Reid:

Reid even wastes his effort to reply to you in good faith then you come back with, ‘How then blah, blah…..’

And now Cricko has edited that into his original comment.

Could you – just for Cricko’s benefit – tell him whether you have any issue with me and the question I asked you?
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September 12, 2015 7:07pm
Reid

Reid is a religious zealot

See what I mean Nosty?

mm has never met me, he thinks he knows me. For example. Wait till the sheeple read what I just said. The bleating will be stupendous.

Could you – just for Cricko’s benefit – tell him whether you have any issue with me and the question I asked you?

I like both of you BTW. I have no issue with questions of any kind, I chose to answer or not. I have issues with allegations when they’re false, but never with questions.
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September 12, 2015 7:08pm
Reid

BTW Nosty but mostly to the sheeple, I wasn’t saying Israel’s plan to split Iraq into 3 is why they did 911. I’m saying that was what their plan was for Iraq for a long time, and 911 was an operation which pushed forward the plan, but 911 also had wider effects than just that, such as this whole war on terror bollocks.

Remember the war on drugs and how successful that was?

The sheeple go:

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
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September 12, 2015 7:17pm
mikenmild

Not a religious zealot, huh? Could you answer me a question: is a knowledge of Bible prophecies necessary to understand the likely future of the Middle East?
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September 12, 2015 7:18pm
Reid

Not a religious zealot, huh? Could you answer me a question: is a knowledge of Bible prophecies necessary to understand the likely future of the Middle East?

No I don’t feel like answering that one mm.

Tell me, can you answer this question?

If belief in a God entails one to understand that they are not just magical pixies but rather, real living entities, and those entities perform actions which have real world consequences, does that mean that everyone who believes in any God who performs real world actions, is a “religious zealot?”
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September 12, 2015 7:29pm
cricko

nostrodamus
what a weak piece of shit you are.

You go crawling on your guts to Reid to beg him to justify your pathetic efforts.

Reid could have responded legitimately to your question be asking, ‘OK, then, so what is your solution to the middle east question, genius,?.’
but he has a bit more about himself than to expose you .

Your 7.07 effort may as well have been, please, please tell cricko that I am not just a congenital fucking idiot.
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September 12, 2015 7:31pm
Dave_1924

@Gabby… my reckoning skills are fine chap. The Marines are trying to recruit ladies… they are not getting 5%ers….

Go look on line and you will see they have had problems getting female recruits who can do 3 chin ups [Telegraph.co.uk July 2014]….. So those are not athletes in anyway shape of form – so I’ll bite and label you a little lacking in reckoning skills…..
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September 12, 2015 7:32pm
Reid

Give him a break cricko, he’s not that way.

.
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September 12, 2015 7:33pm
mikenmild

Not everyone who believes in imaginary beings is a zealot. Some religious delusions are pro-social, or at least harmless.
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September 12, 2015 7:33pm
Awww C-mon

Reid,

Can you clarify for me, Israel has a plan/need to destroy itself?
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September 12, 2015 7:34pm
Reid

Can you clarify for me, Israel has a plan/need to destroy itself?

It’s the people who rule Israel AC, not the Israeli citizens.

And who are those?

Do some research.
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September 12, 2015 7:36pm
Nostradamus

Reid:

I think you’ve often said that something done in the name of religion isn’t necessarily consistent with that religion. So, on that basis, do you agree with anything this person says:

Only a few Western voices are challenging the simplicity of the challenges to Muslims – one of them is John Esposito, director of the Georgetown Centre for Muslim-Christian Understanding.

“It’s interesting, if you actually look at the Koran and compare it to the Bible, the Bible wins hands down when it comes to violence and the advocating of violence, doesn’t it,” he asked in a conversation published by The Economist. “The Old Testament is the only sacred book, for example, that calls for genocide.

“Lots of people have done stuff in the name of religion, from the Inquisition to abortion clinic bombers, and that doesn’t mean that is, in fact, what their faith teaches.”

Alluding to the carnage in northern Nigeria, Esposito argued: “I don’t think that’s Islam – I think that’s Boko Haram.”

I assume you agree with the part in bold.

The other parts – particularly the comparison between the Bible and the Koran – are more controversial.
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September 12, 2015 7:38pm
Nostradamus

Cricko:

what a weak piece of shit you are.

You go crawling on your guts to Reid to beg him to justify your pathetic efforts.

Good grief – it’s impossible to have an intelligent discussion with you. Have another drink *Hic* and then go fuck yourself.

Reid: the broken link in my previous comment is this one.
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September 12, 2015 7:39pm
mikenmild

For those of you new to the show, I think Reid believes that Israel is run by ‘fake’ Jews of some sort. ‘Research’ on various webshites will confirm this.
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September 12, 2015 7:41pm
nasska

The view Reid has always held is that “Zionists” as opposed to the Jewish people are responsible for all the ills of the world.

….”Zionism is a movement founded by Theodor Herzl in 1896 whose goal is the return of Jews to Eretz Yisrael, or Zion, the Jewish synonym for Jerusalem and the Land of Israel.”….

Although I don’t necessarily go along with him he has been consistent in his position.
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September 12, 2015 7:49pm
Reid

Nosty I read a book a long time ago by this guy below. I haven’t watched this vid but I have read his book.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWfKakhz_Ew

My take on this is that “sleuthing” to discover which religion is “good” and which is “bad” and maybe both are or maybe one is and one isn’t etc etc etc is a waste of time.

All religions are captured by evil groups of people at different times in history to do their bidding. Judging the religion on that basis is therefore incorrect, since it misses the judgement on those groups who are influencing it.

In addition, right and wrong is judged on mores of the time.

I for example have tremendous admiration for Iran, simply because it is the most God-fearing nation on the planet today. And I don’t particularly pay attention to the fact its ruled currently by an Islamic caliphate. That to me, does not automatically mean its doing the wrong thing. If you look at how it behaves in world politics, it’s not doing the wrong thing. Poor widdle Iswael and the idiot Western media says it is, but who listens to them, if you have a 3-digit IQ?

Iran hasn’t invaded anyone in 300 years, yet we’re told we HAVE to believe it can’t wait to nuke poor widdle Iswael. For example.

Why?

Why would it do that?

Why?

Western people hallucinate that the mad mullahs can’t wait to get a button to push.

But it’s 170 million highly educated people here, not a single idiot.

Nosty I use Iran and its image in the West as an example of how the Western media distort questions on the world. They do it with countries, and they do it with religions.

Point is, look at actions.

Look at actions of our Muslim immigrants.

Look at actions of Iran.

etc

etc

etc
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September 12, 2015 7:50pm
stigie

This cheap sherry shit *Hic* I’ve forgotten what i was going to say…?
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September 12, 2015 7:53pm
nasska

“Religion is about turning untested belief into unshakable truth through the power of institutions and the passage of time.”

― Richard Dawkins
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September 12, 2015 7:57pm
Reid

It’s not nasska, but don’t tell Richard that, will you.
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September 12, 2015 7:59pm
cha

they have had problems getting female recruits who can do 3 chin ups

So…..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uryt3n9q1q4

On June 4, 1946, President Harry S. Truman signed the National School Lunch Act, which permanently authorized the National School Lunch Program (NSLP). The legislation was passed in response to concerns that “many American men had been rejected for World War II military service because of diet-related health problems.”

http://www.fns.usda.gov/fdd/fdd-history-and-background#1946_-_The_National_School_Lunch_Act_of_1946
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September 12, 2015 8:04pm
nasska

You are right in one respect Reid. The simple belief in a higher being is a whim or fancy that may bring harmless comfort to the believer. Religion on the other hand is that belief corralled & politicized in order to bring power & wealth to its hierarchy.

As such it is pure & unadulterated evil…..however it may present.
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September 12, 2015 8:06pm
Awww C-mon

It hurts my head when your here Reid. It’s much easier just abusing Starboring for being, well himself, a Christian faith centres on the return of Christ. If these things are nessecary for that to occur why fight them? It seems counter intuitive and impossible all at once
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September 12, 2015 8:10pm
Reid

If these things are nessecary for that to occur why fight them?

It’s a Satan-man-made setup AC.

It’s not real.

That’s the point.
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September 12, 2015 8:12pm
Awww C-mon

the whole for evil to exist only takes good men to do nothing argument can’t really be argued.

Have you looked at a double blind conspiracy, let’s blame these things on the Jews to irriticate them?
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September 12, 2015 8:23pm
Nostradamus

Since it’s Saturday, and Cricko went all (*Hic*)homoerotic on me earlier, let’s have some fun.

1. Cricko used to comment as Bereal:

cricko (1,150 comments) says:
May 26th, 2014 at 9:11 pm
…
i used to b ‘bereal ‘ but somehow, all of a sudden i couldn’t log in under that nondeplume.
“email address not known,”
“that name already used by someone else.”

Go figure.

Maybe my comments got a little close to the bone. Who knows.

Anyway, i have a new life as ‘ cricko.’

Yes, Bereal forgot his log-in details, but it’s all part of a (*Hic*) big conspiracy!

2. Bereal tells everyone to ignore Reid:

bereal (3,137 comments) says:
September 25th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

When people engage with the likes of reid and MNIJ they are able to divert and red herring away from the point with ease.
…
You gotta learn to ignore these guys and they will go away.
Wise up.

3. But Bereal ignores his own advice (and gets things completely wrong as usual):

reid (18,835 comments) says:
September 25th, 2010 at 8:56 pm

“MikeNZ don’t you know that reid says he is a lawyer”

Crikey, do I, bereal?
Pray point me to anyplace anytime I’ve ever said that.
Otherwise, don’t lie, young man.
I’m not, BTW.

bereal (3,137 comments) says:
September 25th, 2010 at 9:34 pm

reid, after all this you turn out to be just a joke.
why would you try to denigrate me by calling me,
just a young man?
typical.
Cant play the ball.
Play the man’
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Goodnight.

Truly a village idiot (*Hic*)
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September 12, 2015 8:25pm
Griff

Fletch posts a “container ship full of weapons”

This is what his story actually reports

In one they found more than 5 thousand 9mm cartridges and in another one 4-5 thousand shotguns of different types and still counting.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5b8_1441903481#m3OYhlwj2aPK96by.99

Well fuck me lets load 9mm into shot guns.
and ….do what ?
No mater how many shot guns you load with 9mm ya ain’t going to get a usable fire arm.
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September 12, 2015 8:28pm
Reid

the whole for evil to exist only takes good men to do nothing argument can’t really be argued.

AC if this is in response to my comment you don’t really understand the subject. Men having nothing to do with it.

The forces I am talking about will take them out the back, fuck them up the arse and leave them broken and bleeding in a heartbeat, without even breaking a sweat, even if they’re SEAL team six.

Have you looked at a double blind conspiracy, let’s blame these things on the Jews to irriticate them?

AC if you’re talking to me this is highly insulting. Do you really think I’d say the things I have in the last few years about Israel and the Jewish religion if I thought it was just a bunch of bollocks made up by the Marvel Comic guys in between them writing the latest Batman episode?
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September 12, 2015 8:31pm
Nostradamus

Reid:

All religions are captured by evil groups of people at different times in history to do their bidding. Judging the religion on that basis is therefore incorrect, since it misses the judgement on those groups who are influencing it.

Well said – I agree with you. Nasska and I might go further and say that all religions are captured by ignorant groups of people at different times in history to do their bidding – only joking!

Nosty I use Iran and its image in the West as an example of how the Western media distort questions on the world. They do it with countries, and they do it with religions.

I read any media article with a degree of cynicism. I think I’ve mentioned this to you before, but one question I often ask myself is why the particular subject-matter has become news.

If, for example, it’s some scandal about Nandos because they told a customer to leave when they brought in food from a different takeaway outlet, then I ask myself why the customer bothered to contact the NZ Herald, and why the NZ Herald editor considered it to be newsworthy. And we know the customer contacted the NZ Herald because the article refers to the mother, who apparently “did not want to be named”, but quoted from her extensively.

It’s a trivial example, I know, but you’ll see the point is magnified when applied to larger geopolitical events.

Edit: amazing to see that UglyTruth, Kimbo and SPC are still going at it about religion on the 5 September general debate thread – yes the thread from a whole week ago – currently sitting on 384 comments and counting!
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September 12, 2015 8:43pm
nasska

I asked my wife if she fancied watching “Three Men & a Little Lady”.

She replied,”Is that the film with Tom Selleck & Ted Danson?”

“No, it’s a documentary about Muslim taxi drivers in South Auckland.”
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September 12, 2015 8:52pm
Awww C-mon

Reid it’s not just that your concepts, I want to avoid calling them conspiracies or theroies to avoid the negative undertones, are outside the box for us average joes the problem is also your a condescending fuckwit.

You could simply give me a guide to website that clearly answered my question and continued to conversation. Instead you get all uppity and self important like so many religious folk and now I can’t be arsed with shit again.

I’ll try again another night because I generally enjoy looking at the shite you post and enjoy you challenging my comfy existence
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September 12, 2015 8:54pm
Nostradamus

This cheap sherry shit *Hic* I’ve forgotten what i was going to say…?

Stop being a cheapskate, Stigie, and lift your game:

In 2001, the London auctioneers Sothebys sold the most expensive Sherry ever sold, for $43,500. The bottle, bearing the Imperial seal, was dated 1775, and was found in the Massandra cellars in the Crimea.
…
The wine has now been re-valued at $52,000, and is considered one of the 10 most expensive bottles of wine in the world. Occasionally, wines from Massandra are to be found at auction.

*Hic*
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September 12, 2015 9:00pm
cricko

My cook called it to my attention after she read nostrodamus @ 8.25

I read what he posted and thought,
Jeez this fuckwit has gone to huge effort to try and prove that he is not a congenital fucking idiot,
but how could anyone deny that he was not a congenital fucking idiot.

Denying is losing, right nostrodamis ?

What a loser.

Anyway I’ll give it up, pointing out why nostalgia is a fuckwit is as much fun as pulling wings off a fly.
G’nite all.
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September 12, 2015 9:04pm
Nostradamus

*Hic*
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September 12, 2015 9:04pm
Reid

Well said – I agree with you. Nasska and I might go further and say that all religions are captured by ignorant groups of people at different times in history to do their bidding – only joking!

Yes, we say the same thing about you and Nasska Nosty. (Only joking!)
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September 12, 2015 9:07pm
Reid

the problem is also your a condescending fuckwit.

Apologies AC I’m just so used to people not being serious and asking trap questions simply so they can come back with dipshit repostes that divert from the topic at hand, that I shoot from the hip, these days.

Sorry for misinterpreting and I look forward to re-engagement when convenient.
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September 12, 2015 9:18pm
Awww C-mon

To clarify and for future reference Reid, I’m not clever enough for trap questions. I get shooting from the hip too, my apologies in return
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September 12, 2015 9:22pm
Nostradamus

Another contribution from our Western media:

SATIRE: Lobby group Family First today announced a campaign to restrict the Bible to those over the age 14, stating that the much-loved and highly-regarded best-seller was likely to cause lasting psychological damage to younger readers.

Yes, just in case readers couldn’t guess, it’s satire.

Speaking from atop a high horse perched on a soapbox resting on the moral high ground outside Family First headquarters, spokesman Gordon Prim described the Bible as a “catalogue of debauchery” and a “user-guide to humanity’s darkest impulses”.

Mr Prim explained that while Family First had in the past referred to biblical values, it was only when members sat down and read the Bible cover-to-cover that they were shocked to discover its prurient content.

“This book gets off to a sordid start involving hot sex in an alfresco setting,” Mr Prim said, “and within pages one brother is murdering another in a fit of jealous rage.

“Even a cursory thumb-through reveals depictions of genocide, violence, idolatry, fornication, and a practice known as “coveting your neighbour’s ass” which I haven’t yet got to the bottom of but fully intend to google.

I’m off to google “coveting your neighbour’s ass” right now!

Edit: Hi D4J! Too bad you can only shoot your downtick load once, eh?
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September 12, 2015 9:22pm
Awww C-mon

Meh, he should be grateful to be able shoot it off once… Even while in Thailand
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September 12, 2015 9:35pm
cha

And we’re off.

Jeremy Corbyn wins the Labour leadership with

There 540,272 eligible voters.

Some 422,664 people cast votes

There were 207 spoilt votes.

Jeremy Corbyn: 251,417 – 59.5%

Andy Burnham: 80,462 – 19%

Yvette Cooper: 71,928 – 17%

Liz Kendall:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/12/labour-announces-leadership-election-result-with-corbyn-tipped-to-win-politics-live
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September 12, 2015 10:47pm
Satantango

…aaaaand the name-calling, back-stabbing of the Left begins. Jamie Reed resigns from Labour Party front bench. Is called a traitor and a quisling – on Twitter of course. Nobody does intra-party conflict like the Labour Party.
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September 12, 2015 11:07pm
Left Right and Centre

When I got home I googled ‘Muslim’ and ‘dogs’. Well, wouldn’t you know it. The Koran teaches that dogs are, like pigs, ‘unclean’ animals and to be avoided. And even more startling, many Muslims believe that black dogs are Satan incarnate. Yes, folks, my dog’s black.

Note to self – source two big black as fcuk mofo dogs – loiter outside Kilbirnie mosque at prayer times eating hot bacon toasted sarnies – ruff – ruff RUFF RUFF
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September 13, 2015 12:06am
UrbanNeocolonialist

“Container full of weapons in Greece” quick googling reveals it was actually a weapons shipment from Turkey to Libya intercepted off the coast of Crete a week ago. So not being infiltrated into Europe as claimed.
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September 13, 2015 2:45am

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