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August 8, 2015 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 8 August 2015

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duggledog

Rachel Smalley has played her hand. This article says ‘I am trouble’:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11493465

Was she hoping to get Campbell’s job? She’s clearly bitter.

She will be lucky to have her job by Christmas I reckon. What a pony.
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August 8, 2015 8:02am
Pete George

The sentencing of a Kaikoke woman was reported earlier his week in the Northern Advocate: Kaikohe mum hit by jail term

A leading figure in Kaikohe’s arts and business communities has been jailed for two years after being found guilty of possession of cannabis for supply.

Kelly van Gaalen was sentenced in the Kaikohe District Court on Thursday following a jury trial last month.

I think this is a very troubling sentence – and the sentencing judge thought similarly.

Judge McDonald gave her credit for her previous good record and “extremely worthwhile contribution”, but said he had to be consistent with sentences imposed for other, similar offences.

“To say this sentencing has troubled me is an understatement,” he said.

While the conviction was for “possession of cannabis for supply” there was no evidence of any commercial activity.

Van Gaalen had told the court it was for personal use and to give away to about 20 close friends. She had two plants, one of which had grown exceptionally well. She said she smoked cannabis daily and had started when she was 14.

Judge McDonald said there was no evidence of commercial dealing, such as text messages on her phone, but Parliament had set the upper limit for personal use at 28g. Van Gaalen had 24 times that and knew it was against the law.

“It is not for this court to comment whether that is a just law or not,” he said.

No, that’s something our politicians and our Parliament should be addressing, urgently.

And the way this ‘offending’ was discovered makes this case even more difficult to accept.

Judge John McDonald told the court that van Gaalen’s husband had been the victim of a violent home invasion by three armed men on July 14 last year. Mr van Gaalen, who was home alone, managed to escape and raise the alarm.

However, when police arrived they discovered a bucket of dried cannabis and more in a snaplock bag.

Maybe police have a duty to uphold the law and prosecute transgressions but for fucks sake.

I hope to they at least investigated the violent home invasion as well.

If this case doesn’t prompt Parliament to review our drug laws, especially related to cannabis, then our MPs remain shockingly out of touch.

I certainly question the sense in the daily smoking of a drug since age 14. But sentencing someone to two years prison for recreational use of a relatively harmless drug is a travesty of sensible justice.

It’s more than senseless. It’s a disgrace that our justice system still insists on this sentence. It’s a disgrace that our MPs refuse to reconsider laws that insist on this sentence.

This is more than just a troubling sentence. It’s shocking. It should be our politicians’ inaction that is condemned.
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August 8, 2015 8:04am
oldpark

Rachel Smalleys comments regarding wee John Campell joining the taxpayer funded Red Radio has got her into trouble again. It is not often she is right, wrong again. Rachel is fast becoming a candidate on the dreaded list of the “UNFORGIVEN”.Perhaps in her stupid comments, she has a hidden agenda.
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August 8, 2015 8:06am
duggledog

Pete

Relatively harmless drug? I think you’re the one out of touch. Way out of touch.

Mate you want to get yourself up north. Cannabis has ruined Northland. Basically, east side prosperous, west side bandit country.

The reason there is no work in Northland is because nobody in their right mind would set up a business when the only available unskilled workers are stoned Maoris who dropped out of school when they were 15.

All I’ll say is don’t stop the car in Moerewa or Kaikohe. If you do actually go up there.
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August 8, 2015 8:08am
Pete George

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I think it’s fair comment from Smalley. I’m no fan of Mary Wilson but the balance is getting badly skewed.

Shouldn’t our major broadcasters present more diversity and not predominately the viewpoint of rich white men?
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August 8, 2015 8:10am
Pete George

duggledog – cannabis is relatively harmless as a drug. It’s being used as a money making venture in the criminal world that’s dangerous. That’s caused by poor law, not the substance.
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August 8, 2015 8:12am
nasska

A tough question seldom asked:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/79d3pfnn6lz29u9/Republican.jpg?dl=0
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August 8, 2015 8:14am
EAD

Powerful, powerful piece by the acclaimed Gerald Warner who doesn’t hold back and tells the unvarnished truth without the Orwellian PC doublespeak while the rest of us watch in silent horror at the ongoing destruction of civilisation:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/08/07/calais-crisis-just-part-of-an-invasion-that-exposes-daves-impotence/

A small section:
“Future historians will struggle in vain to understand the suicidal masochism that impelled politicians to hand over the continent that is the cradle of civilisation to a devastating invasion. But they will struggle even harder to comprehend why the inhabitants of so many countries meekly submitted to conquest…..

In fairness, the notion that Dave, or any other of the girlie men in the pseudo-Conservative Party, is seriously opposed to uncontrolled immigration is an unsustainable fantasy. Since the demonisation of Enoch Powell by the traitor Ted Heath in 1968, Britain has lost control of its borders. So, now, has Europe. The greatest civilisation in human history is being liquidated by a numerically insignificant coalition of Westminster canaille, BBC propagandists, a complicit media, the judiciary and the Guardian readership, mirrored among the equivalent PC forces on mainland Europe.

But those who are most to blame are the supine electorate who, as recently as last May in Britain, voted into power one of the anti-national legacy parties that dissolved our borders and has endorsed every aggression against our national security and identity. When a society is too effete to defend its existence, it is doomed to extinction.
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August 8, 2015 8:20am
mandk

@ Pete George

Cannabis is not relatively harmless.

It’s widespread use amongst Maori in particular goes a long way to explaining why economic and social outcomes in regions like Northland are so poor.
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August 8, 2015 8:20am
JMS

Pete George,

a Northland jury found her guilty? Hypocrites.

Shame I wasn’t on the jury, there would have been a mistrial.

Regardless of the evidence, I’d never send anyone to jail for a non-violent drug offence.
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August 8, 2015 8:21am
Pete George

mandk – it’s relatively harmless. Alcohol is far more harmful amongst Maori and non-Maori and Northland and the rest of New Zealand.

There were more than 57,000 domestic incidents last year.

There’s one every five minutes. There’ll be another case just in the time it takes to read this column.

Police spend 41 per cent of their frontline response time attending domestic incidents. It’s corrosive for families and costly to the state, costing $1.4 billion a year to police.

That’s seven times the cost of the Working for Families package which helps struggling working families get by. Of course I’m less concerned about the financial cost than the terrible impact domestic violence has on families affected by it.

– http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/70930827/duncan-garner-gutsy-stuff-from-adams-to-hit-the-bullies-where-it-hurts

Alcohol is a major factor in violence. Not cannabis.
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August 8, 2015 8:24am
Dennis Horne

Pete George. I agree with you absolutely. Anyone who thinks the Police see the job as upholding the law needs his head read. The Police are there to police us. Under the circumstances, ‘someone’ could have said: “Get rid of it.”

And surely a suspended sentence was possible?

I don’t use drugs (including alcohol) and I think the abuse of drugs is horrendous but this case is appalling.

Perhaps Peter Ellis can start a club like the Guinea Pig Club — for people burnt by the system…
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August 8, 2015 8:27am
kowtow

“cannabis is relatively harmless as a drug”

Tell that to the parents of youngsters failing at school or who are unemployable because they chose your drug over education and employment.
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August 8, 2015 8:28am
fernglas

Her defence that she intend to give it away to friends was obviously not accepted; there is no law against giving cannabis to someone over 18, so the jury must have found she intended to sell it. That said, cannabis laws need a rethink, not the least because of the complete lack of informed debate over what is best to do. The irony these days is that the US, which drove the war on drugs, is now finding its states legalising cannabis while the countries they persuaded to join the war still have harsh laws against it. So it remains here; the sentence imposed is in line with current tariffs.
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August 8, 2015 8:28am
duggledog

Oh god here goes the effing weed debate again.

Look, it’s fine for all of us well to do luvvies to say cannabis is ‘relatively harmless’ when we all had a bit of a jolly on it in our late teens and early twenties when we went to all those lovely parties and listened to Cypress Hill. Ha ha ha yeah bro!

But we were able to compartmentalise it after that weren’t we? Have a toot now and then, it wasn’t so bad, we got married bought a house became prosperous yada yada.

That’s us though, not the dregs in the North and East Cape to be specific; they got onto it with Dad or Uncle Bully at 14 and stuck with it right through.

Cannabis use and sale needs to be either seriously legislated against or made completely legal, instead of this halfway house namby pamby shit.

Option 2 would see NZ completely wrecked within one generation, and would be devastating for Maori particularly and PIs too
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August 8, 2015 8:29am
JMS

Tell that to the parents of youngsters failing at school or who are unemployable because they chose your drug over education and employment.

Maybe those parents should stop offloading their parenting responsibilities onto the nanny state, and actually start parenting.
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August 8, 2015 8:32am
Dennis Horne

It’s not the drugs, including alcohol, it’s the people.

You can’t live others’ lives for them but the environment (culture, work) and education determine outcomes, don’t they, not growing a pot plant.

Sure my only claim to wisdom is age…
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August 8, 2015 8:35am
kowtow

fernglas

The idea that the US drove “the war on drugs” is bullshit. The Chinese detested opium and what it did to its people and economy.In the 19th C they had a war on drugs and then we made war on them.

http://www.britannica.com/topic/opium-trade

Mao , when he came to power also had a war on drugs. It is said he solved the problem by having all the addicts executed.
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August 8, 2015 8:35am
JMS

Oh god here goes the effing weed debate again.

Yup, and until the control freaks f**k off, it won’t be the last.

Option 2 would see NZ completely wrecked within one generation, and would be devastating for Maori particularly and PIs too

Mankind survived for millennia without cannabis laws, these laws are a recent invention by radical progressives.
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August 8, 2015 8:36am
kowtow

“Sure my only claim to wisdom is age”

Kowtow he say , your prejudices are not necessarily wisdom.
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August 8, 2015 8:37am
stephieboy

nasska, excellent and would explain the 24 million viewers of the GOP leadership debates that Manolo recently boasted about,. It just reminds us about the real power of black and white thinking and finding simplistic solutions to complex problems e.g the GOP right inflammatory rhetoric on war in the Middle East etc.

Separation of Church and state too etc
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August 8, 2015 8:39am
mandk

@ Pete George

Trying to justify the legalisation of one harmful drug on the grounds that another harmful drug is legal is about as intellectually feeble as it gets.

I don’t know if you are a cannabis user, but one wonders if your brain is too addled to see that.

Go to Kaitaia, go to Optiki, go to Kawerau, go to Wairoa, and the degradation and problems you will see there are not caused by alcohol. They are caused by cannabis.
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August 8, 2015 8:52am
JMS

Trying to justify the legalisation of one harmful drug on the grounds that another harmful drug is legal is about as intellectually feeble as it gets.

Highlighting hypocrisy is not intellectually feeble.
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August 8, 2015 8:56am
Pete George

And by driving the production and distribution underground the law is clearly not working.

I’ve never used cannabis.
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August 8, 2015 8:57am
cha

They are caused by cannabis.

And you know this ….?
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August 8, 2015 8:58am
Viking2

Pete George (24,733 comments) says:
August 8th, 2015 at 8:04 am

The sentencing of a Kaikoke woman was reported earlier his week in the Northern Advocate: Kaikohe mum hit by jail term

A leading figure in Kaikohe’s arts and business communities has been jailed for two years after being found guilty of possession of cannabis for supply.

Kelly van Gaalen was sentenced in the Kaikohe District Court on Thursday following a jury trial last month.

I think this is a very troubling sentence – and the sentencing judge thought similarly.

=============================
Not often I agree with you Pete but this time I do.

The “p” epidemic which plagues NZ currently was all going to be brought under control by Keys and his mates under their program.
Except according to the numbers yesterday it worse than ever.
Driven by
1. Soft drugs being under grounded and not being allowed for personal use.
2. Stupid efforts by Dunne to clamp down on the use of non harmful drugs such as “e”.

Neither will be popular with the clowns but we reap what we sew and now we have a huge problem with Meth and its disastrous results on human beings.

We also still think that drug addiction is a crime rather than a medical problem so the resources go into this bullshit rather than the treatment of the addicts.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/70918396/police-believe-importing-methamphetamine-on-the-rise

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/70662338/nz-meth-strung-out-and-burgling-houses-on-crutches

ohn Key’s Methamphetamine Action Plan (pdf), launched in 2009, aimed to cut user numbers and improve treatment for addicts. It would provide “critical steps” in the fight against meth, Key said at the time.

In 2009, the Ministry of Health calculated P addicts made up 2.2 per cent of the general population. By 2013, that number had halved.

Police are hesitant to agree with the statistics.

On Wednesday, police arrested a teenage tourist after he received $1m worth of methamphetamine, hidden in soup packets.

A change in attitude is needed.
No paper rules about this will fix a thing.
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August 8, 2015 8:59am
duggledog

Pete

Cannabis begets the lazy no hoper, whose life prospects are nil.

The violence comes from this frustration, alcohol is just the lubricant.

It’s a fallacy that organised crime is making squillions out of cannabis; you can grow it yourself FFS!

Gangs make their real money out of prostitution, running burglary ops, and worst but most lucratively, meth.

V2 you can pretend drug addiction is a medical problem if you like, just make sure you don’t use any of my taxes to combat it.

Use your own if you want.
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August 8, 2015 9:02am
kowtow

PG says

“I’ve never used cannabis.” Well maybe you should before trying to push it on society . It and the culture that has been carefully built up around it by its proponents ( many in the media and entertainment industries) is one of the most demotivating and negative forces in society aat the moment.

Why push a negative?
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August 8, 2015 9:06am
Inandout

Purely for entertainment value Trump is a winner. How refreshing to listen to a speaker who doesn’t give a stuff for the easily offended, and obviously delights in throwing the insults. He won’t of course get elected but he is thumbing his nose at the PC luvvies and may we enjoy it while it lasts.
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August 8, 2015 9:07am
mandk

@ Cha

Yes.

There are many more jobs in Kawerau than there are employed people, despite the fact that the unemployment rate there is stratospheric. Youngsters can’t take the jobs that are available. Employers in the town have to import labour from elsewhere.

The reason? Cannabis use in the town is so widespread that the residents who should be competing for jobs have too much cannabis in their system to be safe driving vehicles and using heavy machinery.

In Opotiki, employers often have to bus labour down from Whakatane because the locals are too stoned to turn up for work in the packing sheds.
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August 8, 2015 9:08am
ross411

duggledog (1,949 comments) says:
August 8th, 2015 at 8:02 am
Rachel Smalley has played her hand. This article says ‘I am trouble’:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11493465

Was she hoping to get Campbell’s job? She’s clearly bitter.

She will be lucky to have her job by Christmas I reckon. What a pony.

She has a point, in that female journalists aren’t represented. But what is it worth?

If I ask myself about all the times I remember her saying things that validate her point, I come up short. All I remember from her is nasal viewpoints that indicate she herself as a person, rather than as a woman, should not be in the position of stinking up the airwaves. It’s a hollow article based on ideals she has herself disproves if the listener looks back at her career.
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August 8, 2015 9:10am
cha

So all you’ve got is the anec-data you’ve pulled out of your arse.
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August 8, 2015 9:12am
EAD

I thought the lot of them were just a bunch of pathetic band of losers. Not one will seriously address the 3 paramount issues facing America:

1. eliminating the Federal Reserve and debt-based money…

2. sealing the borders/protecting them with lethal force and deporting ALL 30 million illegals immediately… (Trump talks big but would never follow up with action.)

3. banning foreign lobbies such as AIPAC and fighting foreign wars NOT in our America’s interest.

Rand Paul dances around them but not one of those shills will touch any of these topics. Politics when it is conducted like this is a side-show to fool the dumbed down punters they actually have a choice.

Very depressing and a sign that the American Republic is almost over – Obama is the “dependence stage”, these “terrorist hunting” GOP clowns will finally put the shining light on the hill back into bondage:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: “From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.” – Alexander Fraser Tytler
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August 8, 2015 9:14am
JMS

you can pretend drug addiction is a medical problem if you like, just make sure you don’t use any of my taxes to combat it.

But you’re fine with paying taxes so the government can hire helicopters for $1000+ per hour to look for weeds?
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August 8, 2015 9:16am
wiseowl

Garner has talked up the discussion on domestic violence and says it is gutsy stuff from Adams.

He is another journo who has too much opinion and not enough journo.

Caller after caller on his talkback tried to cut some balance and made it clear the legislation is biased against men .He acknowledged what they were saying but he doesn’t really get it.

This response is because we now have men , many men who have experienced the rough end and are crying out for some balance.
Balance that the likes of Garner in the media, should be trying to provide and explain.

Adams legislation is going to do nothing and the real issue is to ask “why” is there so much violence.

Then we may start getting somewhere.
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August 8, 2015 9:16am
ross411

duggledog (1,949 comments) says:
August 8th, 2015 at 8:08 am
Pete

Relatively harmless drug? I think you’re the one out of touch. Way out of touch.

Mate you want to get yourself up north. Cannabis has ruined Northland. Basically, east side prosperous, west side bandit country.

You’re blaming the symptom, rather than the problem. Why are Maori more likely to commit crime? Why is cannabis such a problem there?

Let’s say that the illegalisation of cannabis was complete, and you couldn’t get it in NZ. Would the Maori who choose to do it, be doing something else instead? I suspect so.

Let’s look at America and legalisation. Colorado is cleaning up. You want those Maori to become self-starters who run businesses in the north? Legalise it. Get it in stores, with tax being paid on it. In order to keep their profits, they’ll follow the law and pay taxes. Failure to do so will see the their hard work being lost.
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August 8, 2015 9:19am
EAD

“”The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre—the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” H.L. Mencken

Mr. Hope & Change 2008
Donald Trump 2016
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August 8, 2015 9:19am
stephieboy

EAD, how would you seal the 1, 933 mile border ?

AIPAC did not get its way over the Iran Nuclear deal .

American Republic days almost over ? Rubbish ! Evidence ?
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August 8, 2015 9:20am
mikenmild

EAD
It must be depressing for you not having any bigoted Austrian gold buggers running for president.
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August 8, 2015 9:20am
mandk

The data on the labour market in Kawerau are publicly available, so do feel free to check for yourself.

And dismissing my argument as anec-data is trite.

Why don’t you tell us why you think a town that has the highest unemployment rate in the country has to import masses of workers to take the jobs? It’s not as if the jobs there require especially high skill levels.
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August 8, 2015 9:20am
ross411

mandk (1,474 comments) says:
August 8th, 2015 at 8:52 am
@ Pete George

Trying to justify the legalisation of one harmful drug on the grounds that another harmful drug is legal is about as intellectually feeble as it gets.

I don’t know if you are a cannabis user, but one wonders if your brain is too addled to see that.

Go to Kaitaia, go to Optiki, go to Kawerau, go to Wairoa, and the degradation and problems you will see there are not caused by alcohol. They are caused by cannabis.

But the question then is, what would happen if cannabis was not available? Would they become model citizens? Would they turn to alcohol or other drugs?

What point are you making? That these people are wonderful people brought low by the evil cannabis? That but for cannabis they would be living the good life? Or that they are weak because of the lottery of genetics and have little self control when it comes to cannabis?

Something else?
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August 8, 2015 9:21am
peterwn

Kiwibank has failed. See:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/70933415/labour-wants-reserve-bank-to-keep-a-closer-eye-on-big-four-bank-profits

Anyway what has bank profitability got to do with the Reserve Bank, surely that is a Commerce Commission / Consumer Affairs matter.

Also, surely Kiwibank was set up to rein in the allegedly poor service and rampant profiteering of the Australian owned banks. Labour instead should be advising people to switch to Kiwibank.

What is forgotten about bank profitability is bank shareholders put their money right on the line and are the first to get wiped if the bank tanks or gets into serious difficulties. So while shareholders receive nice dividends in most years, the sword is forever hanging them. Just witness the bank failures in UK and USA in recent times. NZ was lucky that the four big Oz banks came out of the difficult times with their hair still on. This makes it rather easy to try and blame Australian banks for excessive profitability. As it is the regulators are requiring even greater prudence with the banks having to have a further capital cushion by issuing last ditch junk bonds with draconian conditions favouring the bank but with a premium interest rate – they are definitely not for little old ladies.
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August 8, 2015 9:28am
cha

Why don’t you tell us why you think a town that has the highest unemployment rate in the country has to import masses of workers to take the jobs?

Inter-generational welfare – a population who’ve never had anything, haven’t got anything and being devoid of aspiration will never have anything.
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August 8, 2015 9:28am
Paulus Gnome

The Horrid proclaims ‘Auckland mayor: Goff v Gattung?’

ABL and the same for leaky spitty goofy.
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August 8, 2015 9:29am
JMS

Why don’t you tell us why you think a town that has the highest unemployment rate in the country has to import masses of workers to take the jobs? It’s not as if the jobs there require especially high skill levels.

Amazing how people keep missing the elephant in the room. Cannabis is not the problem. Welfare is the problem.

Before welfare, if you drank too much or smoked too much, you couldn’t work and therefore you wouldn’t eat.

I’m certain that kind of incentive would force the vast majority into moderation, just like it did for millennia of human existence. Solve 90% of the problem without the need for any nanny state bans.
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August 8, 2015 9:36am
mikenmild

Yes, because alcoholism and addiction were never problems without the welfare state.
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August 8, 2015 9:39am
Zapper

Surely women are outraged that someone like Smalley isn’t in a prime time position. I mean, none of these white males would dare call it as it is, and refer to Kiwi women as heifers and lardos. Where is the women’s voice? We need someone gutsy enough to call it as it is. And the best part of having a women do it, is they survive the lynch mob by giving a tearful “I’m sorry I was caught” apology. A white male would never get away with it. So I can see where she’s coming from.
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August 8, 2015 9:42am
Manolo

The NYT take on the debate: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/06/opinion/a-foxy-rowdy-republican-debate.html?_r=0
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August 8, 2015 9:57am
Manolo

I look forward to the day the hopeless Smalley is sacked by Newstalkzb. The sooner the better.
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August 8, 2015 10:02am
Manolo

Paving the way to the Queen’s coronation: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/07/fellow-dems-blast-dnc-for-coddling-hillary-in-debate-schedule/?intcmp=hpbt1

Democratic presidential candidate Martin O’Malley is taking his party to task for issuing a primary debate schedule that he says clearly insulates front runner Hillary Clinton from harm on her way to a possible nomination.

The former governor of Maryland told reporters that the debate schedule – trimmed to six from more than 25 in 2008 – represents a circling of wagons around Clinton, who is clearly ahead of her Democratic challengers. He is joined by fellow Democratic candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who is also calling for more debates.
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August 8, 2015 10:05am
kowtow

The relentless feminisation agenda marks another milestone.An exclusively female bench is a sign of equality?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11493757
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August 8, 2015 10:06am
starboard

The drug dealer in Kaikohe..apparently she had the equivalent of 60 ounces. She is a dealer and deserves to be in jail.
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August 8, 2015 10:07am
mikenmild

I don’t ever recall you complaining about an all-male bench, kowtow. Surely that would be just as much a concern for you?
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August 8, 2015 10:10am
stephieboy

kowtow, obviously you want to turn the clock back to the victorian age where women had the legal status of chattels ?
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August 8, 2015 10:12am
Viking2

duggledog (1,949 comments) says:
August 8th, 2015 at 8:29 am

Oh god here goes the effing weed debate again.

Option 2 would see NZ completely wrecked within one generation, and would be devastating for Maori particularly and PIs too

—————————
Well that goes well then.
What about the raise and rise of “p” that is currently plaguing NZ???
See my earlier posts with the references.

duggledog (1,949 comments) says:
August 8th, 2015 at 9:02 am

Pete

Cannabis begets the lazy no hoper, whose life prospects are nil.

The violence comes from this frustration, alcohol is just the lubricant.

It’s a fallacy that organised crime is making squillions out of cannabis; you can grow it yourself FFS!

(yes you can except that what this was about. Someone growing their own and being sent to jail for exercising that right which clowns like you deam to be nasty and against the “Law”)

Gangs make their real money out of prostitution, running burglary ops, and worst but most lucratively, meth.

V2 you can pretend drug addiction is a medical problem if you like, just make sure you don’t use any of my taxes to combat it.

Use your own if you want.
=========================================

DDog you are stupid in the head. You fail 101 of understanding people and the motivations.
You don’t even relate burglary to “p” and drugs.

Addiction is a medical problem and you have already spent all the tax you have ever paid trying to enforce a law based on American fear.

Its failed years ago and will continue which why the enlightened are moving to change this and the way we view harmless stuff.

Sure even cannabis isn’t good for anyone but a little research will show that many many successful people haven’t ruined the world because of its use whereas plenty of fruit cakes have done so on “p” and many other drugs have and efforts to combat the “crime” (of very recent origins from the bible Belt in USA), to eliminate is use.

Having seen years of alcohol abuse and use give me someone cooled out on grass any day.

All you are doing with your attitude is to push harder and more toxic drugs onto those because they are human with frailties want to try and chose to use. The bad stuff addicts them.
Oh throw them in Jail and pay the jail taxes.
Doesn’t work.

You need to learn to think better. Maybe a bit of spaced out cannabis time would be good for you to try.

NB Never done it myself but have employed many who do and have and that is never going to change under the current system.
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August 8, 2015 10:16am
Manolo

@stephieboy: But isn’t your beloved Islam the one that treats women like chattels, like mere possessions of fathers and husbands? Why don’t you condemn that?
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August 8, 2015 10:17am
Viking2

Another addiction story.
And not the first time I have seen this reported.

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2015/08/blame_stupidity_not_red_bull.html
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August 8, 2015 10:19am
cha

The drug dealer in Kaikohe..apparently she had the equivalent of 60 ounces

However, when police arrived they discovered a bucket of dried cannabis and more in a snaplock bag.

In total it weighed 684g.

A tad more than 24 ounces but arithmetic ain’t your strong point is it.
/
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August 8, 2015 10:20am
mikenmild

There is no moral or ethical case to legislate against adults ingesting the substances of their choice.
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August 8, 2015 10:20am
stephieboy

EAD, Reid , Ugly Truth etc you hoo !,
,

Debunked: UFO over Loch Ness [Reflection in Dual Pane Window]

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-ufo-over-loch-ness-reflection-in-dual-pane-window.t6373/

Manalo, but I do e.g my past posts supporting Malala Yousafazi and young women’s education in Pakistan . I find it interesting that kowtow , yours and other rabid righters views on women rights uncannily parallel sharia !
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August 8, 2015 10:23am
kowtow

the victorian age where women had the legal status of chattels ?

Really, who was that age named after? (Rhetorical )
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August 8, 2015 10:28am
starboard

Just passing on what I heard Charrrrr

I bow to your superiority on matters of everything. You are so….enlightening.
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August 8, 2015 10:32am
kowtow

“efforts to combat the “crime” (of very recent origins from the bible Belt in USA), to eliminate is use.”

More bullshit. The concerns arose due to the opium trade in China. Not recent and not bible belt.

Try this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Opium_Convention
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August 8, 2015 10:34am
Dennis Horne

If smoking cannabis per se is such a problem make it illegal … that would solve the problem!

Yeah, right.
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August 8, 2015 10:36am
starboard

Gawddddddddddd noooooooo…another day of contrary milkmike , please God..no more.
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August 8, 2015 10:36am
mikenmild

What would you like to chat about, starboard?
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August 8, 2015 10:44am
stephieboy

kowtow,

Really, who was that age named after? (Rhetorical )

Queen Victoria of course and relates to age where there was a more conservative and restrictive attitudes to women rights where e.g in marriage they were regarded as more or less chattels .

But unlike you attitudes have changed .
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August 8, 2015 10:51am
nasska

kowtow @ 10.34 is for once not far off the mark. In NZ (early in the 30’s) the law making opium illegal, as pushed by the League of Nations, had the trafficking of cannabis tacked on to the end of it. Anecdotally this was because of Egyptian labourers not working hard enough due to being stoned out of their heads on hashish.

Few New Zealanders used the drug & there’s no record of any convictions under the legislation. In the late 50’s the US government ramped up the penalties on use & possession of marijuana largely to give their authorities a tool with which to bash the bohemians who were regarded as dangerous subversives.

Next in line were the ‘hippys’ of the 60’s & 70’s. Few others than those successfully brainwashed by the American government have ever believed that the drug was dangerous…..just a handy way to criminalise social attitudes they don’t like.

NZ in true & traditional arse licking fashion bowed to & followed American prejudices.
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August 8, 2015 10:55am
doggone7

duggledog @ 8:02 am

Jack Tame said most people missed Rachel Smalley’s point. He feels so strongly about it he’s going to give her all his media jobs!
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August 8, 2015 11:00am
Reid

Sheeple note # 0.482629

Not just cellphones but wifi too.

I didn’t get wifi myself till my computers told me I had access to wifi networks all around me so it was then pointless not to since I was being irradiated anyway.

But this is what you get in this useless degrading system of ours, where the money for the research goes only to the people who’ll give you the answer you require, rather than the answer, period.

And this is what you idiots hallucinate is peace and fweedom. Your grandchildren won’t only curse you, you know. They’ll break your door down and put you against the wall, for being so stupid as you are being, to have had so much, and to have given so much away without a fight, when all you had to do was wake up and join the rest of us who are. That’s all it takes, sheeple. The evil ones can’t keep fucking us over if 10% of us are awake. That’s the figure for the dam to break and all the rest of the sheeple to be forced to wake up.

But you won’t, will you.

I know.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

https://www.rt.com/usa/311303-cellphone-mobile-cancer-study/
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August 8, 2015 11:02am
mikenmild

‘Irradiated’ by wi-fi? Perhaps a tinfoil helmet would protect you.
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August 8, 2015 11:04am
kowtow

“Few New Zealanders used the drug & there’s no record of any convictions under the legislation”

If that is the case then congratulations are due to the Hollywood, music, criminal and dead beat types who have managed to make this pernicious and negative narcotic such a big part of the New Zealand under class scene.

Just goes to show how quickly our culture can be changed for the worse.
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August 8, 2015 11:14am
kowtow

“kowtow @ 10.34 is for once not far off the mark”

Cheeky fucker.
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August 8, 2015 11:28am
nasska

” pernicious and negative” is subjective & “narcotic” is wrong……marijuana is a psychotropic or mood altering drug.

And the “Hollywood, music, criminal and dead beat types” wouldn’t have had much luck had a bunch of know all control freaks not decided to criminalise cannabis for little reason other than to show that they could.

Forbidden fruit & all that.
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August 8, 2015 11:29am
Fletch

Good news! In the U.S, the House Committee has announced an expanded Planned Parenthood investigation.

http://liveactionnews.org/breaking-house-committee-announces-expanded-planned-parenthood-investigation/

In the meantime, Alabama has become the third State to defund Planned Parenthood.

Alabama has become the third state to de-fund the Planned Parenthood abortion business in the wake of five videos exposing how the abortion giant sells the body parts of aborted babies for research. The state follows Louisiana, which is revoking a contract with Planned Parenthood using state Medicaid dollars, and New Hampshire, which zapped $650,000 in state taxpayer funding.

http://www.lifenews.com/2015/08/06/alabama-becomes-3rd-state-to-de-fund-planned-parenthood-after-it-sells-aborted-babies/
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August 8, 2015 11:29am
Reid

‘Irradiated’ by wi-fi?

mm I know you’re slow but it was only 60 years ago that concepts like these were being seriously considered. Are you stupid as well as slow?

Tell us, when you see a gate, what do you feel like doing?

And a cattlestop?

http://io9.com/nuclear-powered-vehicle-concepts-from-the-mid-20th-cent-1154385972
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August 8, 2015 11:30am
JMS

Reid,

Linking to RT (Russia Today)

Seriously?

How exactly is watching the sheepiest of sheeple’s networks going to help enlighten the ‘sheeple’?
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August 8, 2015 11:31am
kowtow

what nasska is saying is “At a time when no one in NZ used it the govt (due to international treaty obligations) outlawed it and because parliament passed a new law people started smoking cannabis?”

I get it ,it’s Americas fault.
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August 8, 2015 11:40am
Reid

The banality of evil – the story of the bureaucrats who singled out Horishima and Nakasaki as the target cities.

Note that for the sheeple who hallucinate they were valuable military targets, of course they weren’t, and thinking that ranks those who do amongst the most stupid sheep of all.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/08/hiroshima-nagasaki-atomic-bomb-anniversary/400448/
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August 8, 2015 11:42am
Viking2

nasska (13,792 comments) says:
August 8th, 2015 at 10:55 am

kowtow @ 10.34 is for once not far off the mark. In NZ (early in the 30’s) the law making opium illegal, as pushed by the League of Nations, had the trafficking of cannabis tacked on to the end of it. Anecdotally this was because of Egyptian labourers not working hard enough due to being stoned out of their heads on hashish.

NZ in true & traditional arse licking fashion bowed to & followed American prejudices.

===========================
don’t tell the resident chow chow Naaska.

Its his faith.
Bloody god botherer.
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August 8, 2015 11:55am
stigie

“What would you like to chat about, starboard”?

Sausage !
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August 8, 2015 12:02pm
stephieboy

Reid,

The American casualties at Iwo Jima and Okinawa left them in no doubt that a land invasion of of the land of the rising sun would highly likely be a long, bloody and protracted affair, with fanatical resistance by the Imperial forces and civilians

Such a land invasion would of more than likely cost thousands and thousands of more lives on both sides. Hind sight is of course all very well but without doubt a necessary evil,The A bombings where many, many more lives were saved as result.
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August 8, 2015 12:09pm
kowtow

V2 ,Yet another obsessed bigot. Stick to the debate , you might learn something. “recent, bible belt” bullshit peddler.
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August 8, 2015 12:10pm
Rowan

Australia’s achievement in the ashes is dragging the game into a third day!! How many more sessions will they last?
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August 8, 2015 12:20pm
oldpark

Jack Tame and his arse licking comments supporting the heifer lardo person known as Rachel Smalley. The boy Tame is still wet behind the ears, in the journey of life. He was parachuted into Newstalk ZB replacing real genuine NZ broadcasters, or journalists as they like to be known. Tame never had to serve an apprenticeship, in radio or Television,with his stupid dumb comments supporting Smalley, he could also be a candidate for the “UNFORGIVEN” list for stupid comments and arse licking.
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August 8, 2015 12:33pm
mikenmild

How do you get on the “UNFORGIVEN” list, oldpark?
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August 8, 2015 12:36pm
Kiwi Dave

Reid & 10.42

Feel free to explain how the allies would have forced Japanese surrender without huge civilian casualties.

Perhaps 40% of Okinawa’s civilian population died in the fighting. Since the invasion would have been in Kyushu’s densely populated coastal plains, the civilian casualties would have been horrendous.

The blockade might have eventually forced Japan’s surrender, but given J. propaganda of ‘100m citizens ready to die for the emperor’, the government wasn’t too concerned about civilian deaths, only about their willingness to die and not challenge the imperial govt. Incidentally, blockades work by starving people (500 000 extra German deaths as a result of the allied blockade in WWI) and the first to die are the very poor, the very young and the very old, preceded of course in this case by Allied POW’s.

One might further note, thanks to hindsight, that about 100-250 000 Asian civilians, mostly Chinese were dying each month in 1945 as a result of the war.

In February 42, Bomber Command was directed to begin mass attacks on German cities and this was shortly afterwards justified as a war measure under the name of ‘dehousing’ which would reduce German war productivity. The moral bridge of attacking civilians had long since been crossed and burnt by both sides. A-bombs were a more efficient means to the same end.

There wasn’t much point to nuclear bombing already destroyed cities; there was a point to demonstrating as forcefully as possible to the Government that J. could now be destroyed, including the imperial system, quickly and at little cost to the allies.

The fact which critics of the A-bombs frequently ignore is that the war-cabinet was prepared to fight on on August 5, but by August 10 (strongly motivated also by the Russian attack) half the cabinet was ready to accept the Allies’ terms (apart from dumping the emperor), but even after Hirohito voted for surrender, junior officers attempted a coup d’état in order to fight on.
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August 8, 2015 1:02pm
cas

Has anyone seen any references to Fonterra managment and Board cutting their salaries owing to the downturn which they don’t seem to have predicted?
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August 8, 2015 1:02pm
starboard

There ya go Stigie..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/70791182/tuataperes-famous-sausages-set-to-make-a-comeback-kind-of
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August 8, 2015 1:15pm
stigie

Brilliant Starboard, can they tempt you just like the original sausage ?
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August 8, 2015 1:28pm
stephieboy

kiwi Dave, thank you for that detailed and most interesting account of the consequences of allied strategic actions against Japan and Germany.

I shudder to think of the casualties that a land invasion of the densely populated Kyushu would of would of rendered especially in the light of of the mind set of those Junior officers and other branches of the Imperial Command.

What of course is often neglected with this revisionist bunk is the enormous effort the US put into Japanese post war economic reconstruction as with the Marshal Plan in post war Western Europe .

Churchill on the Marshall Plan as the most un sordid act in human history ,

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1084820.html

Obviously he would of felt the same about about post war Japan reconstruction
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August 8, 2015 1:29pm
Brigitte

@Kiwi Dave

The first nuke could have been dropped on a forest (after advising Japan that was the plan). They could see the devastation first hand without casualties. The second, if required, could have been dropped on a city after giving 48hrs warning to empty the city. There was no reason to rush the second bomb within a few days (unless they were trying to ‘beat’ the surrender). This would have had the same effect as what actually happened but saving 100,000s of lives. Quite simply, the US didn’t try to avoid innocent civilian deaths.
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August 8, 2015 1:31pm
stephieboy

Bridgette, and the Japanese Imperial forces did not try to avoid civilian casualties in Manchuria, China, Korea etc, etc creating all kinds of mayhem and destruction including massacres .

Unfortunately the reality of war does involve civilian casualties . it’s problematic whether the Japanese would of surrendered with an A bomb dropped in a remote forested area. We will never know for certain. Given the mindset of their military I very much doubt it.
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August 8, 2015 1:45pm
Odakyu-sen

The Japanese civilian population had been taught to believe that the American soldiers would do terrible things to them (a grand example of reflection if ever there was one).

Many of the civilian deaths in Okinawa were suicides. Mothers killing their children and then themselves. That sort of thing.

The American soldiers would have suffered greatly, both physically and mentally, in any invasion of the Japanese mainland. The Japanese population would have suffered far worse.

The Americans (to their credit) went straight for the Japanese operating system and replaced it with their own. Then they rebooted Japan during the Korean War, and the rest, they say, is history.
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August 8, 2015 1:51pm
Manolo

Despite the many attempts to rewrite history, the two atomic bombs were the best way to end the war.
The world owes a lot to the United States of America.
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August 8, 2015 1:53pm
Odakyu-sen

As I have said before, I would not have met my wife had it not been for a job interview I had some 30 years ago with a director of a company who had been a flight instructor for a kamikaze unit in mid 1945. The war ended shortly before he himself (faced with dwindling resources) was set to fly.

Fate. Life. Hope.
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August 8, 2015 2:08pm
Reid

Reid & 10.42: Feel free to explain how the allies would have forced Japanese surrender without huge civilian casualties.

Kiwi Dave there’s little point in discussing this issue with someone who is familiar only with the allied historical accounts and everything you said indicates you are such a one.

Come back when you’ve done so. Finding them isn’t hard. You’ve just got to want to.
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August 8, 2015 2:10pm
Manolo

Who will challenge the Queen? http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/as-campaign-heats-up-republican-candidates-are-rushing-to-the-right/2015/08/07/d42acacc-3d2c-11e5-b3ac-8a79bc44e5e2_story.html
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August 8, 2015 2:10pm
Jack5

The atomic bomb attacks were devastating to the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the surrounding areas, but conventional bombing was almost as bad.

The B29 napalm raid on Tokyo on the night of 9 March 1945 created a fire storm that killed about 100,000 people.

Similarly, the raids on Hamburg (42,000 killed), Dresden (25,000 killed), London (about 20,000 deaths in total), and Berlin (20,00 to 50,000 killed in total), all took a terrible toll without being caused by nuclear weapons.

As in the days when Genghis Khan slaughtered whole cities, civilians have become the main target in full-scale war.
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August 8, 2015 2:10pm
wikiriwhis business

Lengths National have gone to hide the true nature of the Saudi sheep bribe really are extraordinary…

Foreign Minister Murray McCully wanted to set up his deal over the Saudi Arabian farm so lawyers and bureaucrats would not be involved.

He did not want the payments to the Al Khalaf Group called “compensation” for the losses they suffered as a result of New Zealand’s ban on the export of live sheep for slaughter.

And his aides were busy instructing the Al Khalaf Group what wording to use on their invoices even before the Cabinet had approved the project.

All of this is contained within the hundreds of papers released by Mr McCully on Tuesday afternoon as he flew off to meetings in Malaysia.

…and the media’s response to this bewildering level of political abuse? They’ve either ignored the story in favour of petty celebrity gossip, given it a once only lightly update or actually blamed Labour.

– See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/08/07/lengths-national-have-gone-to-hide-the-true-nature-of-the-saudi-sheep-bribe-really-are-extraordinary/?utm_content=buffer3918f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer#sthash.bLDOecnW.dpuf

– See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/08/07/lengths-national-have-gone-to-hide-the-true-nature-of-the-saudi-sheep-bribe-really-are-extraordinary/?utm_content=buffer3918f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer#sthash.bLDOecnW.dpuf
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August 8, 2015 2:15pm

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