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July 7, 2015 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 7 July 2015

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General Debate

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Griff

He misses the most important reason Shawn
Reason number one.
There probably is no god.
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July 7, 2015 2:24pm
Shawn Herles

“Any comment from you on my 8:13?”

You made no valid point worth commenting on.
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July 7, 2015 2:25pm
Manolo

Anyone who thinks NZ was better off under Labour’s comrade Clark must be blind, dumb, and deaf.
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July 7, 2015 2:26pm
Shawn Herles

You already know what I think of that pov Griff. Kinda pointless pointing it out to me, but good on you for trying!

We’ll make a preacher out of you yet! 😉
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July 7, 2015 2:27pm
Shawn Herles

“Anyone who thinks NZ was better off under Labour’s comrade Clark must be blind, dumb, and deaf.”

It’s called brand loyalty. I have noticed this with a number of friends and family that vote Labour. Bar one, none have really thought about it much, it’s just that their parents and grandparents voted Labour, or they have some vague idea of Labour being a party of justice and fairness, and National supposedly being about sticking it to the poor. But again, they have not really thought that one through much, or bothered looking at the evidence.
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July 7, 2015 2:31pm
Shawn Herles

I had to be up at 5 this morning for a job. It was bloody cold! It’s times like that I admire farmers, and that God I’m not one of them!
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July 7, 2015 2:34pm
UglyTruth

You made no valid point worth commenting on.

The point was that if the witnesses didn’t hear what was said then they couldn’t have a recounted the events as they did.
Therefore they did hear what was said, and Paul was lying when he said that they didn’t.
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July 7, 2015 2:39pm
Shawn Herles

It has apparently been snowing in Balclutha.
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July 7, 2015 2:39pm
Black with a Vengeance

Time will tell what key and english final legacy will be, but I think we can all agree, it won’t be pretty or cheap

Things are gonna get real ugly and real expensive, real soon…
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July 7, 2015 2:42pm
Shawn Herles

“but I think we can all agree,”

If you think that, thinking is not what you are doing.
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July 7, 2015 2:43pm
stephieboy

Shawn Herles , equally could be said about those voting National, or Republican or Democrat or whatever over the generations. In contrast those who vote National and the GOP have somehow all deeply thought about it ? Right ?

UT, yes you do have no point worth commenting on witness your meaningless risible posts about Common Law and Hollow – Flat Earth etc
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July 7, 2015 2:44pm
Shawn Herles

Brand loyalty is not about Left or Right stephie.
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July 7, 2015 2:47pm
wreck1080

@ead “I take no pleasure in being proven right”

Sure you do 🙂

You are the oracle and who doesn’t want to be that?

My question — is it a disaster when a stock market goes up 150% in a year then falls 30% in a few months?

Still up. Although , not if you bought at peak, then you’ve lost 30%.
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July 7, 2015 2:53pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Shanghai missing out on global warming at the moment
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2015-07/07/content_21197857.htm
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July 7, 2015 2:55pm
Shawn Herles

A reply to Ugly.

“What About the Multiple Accounts of Paul’s Conversion?”

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1046-what-about-the-multiple-accounts-of-pauls-conversion

“Road to Damascus: A Bible Contradiction?”

http://lifehopeandtruth.com/bible-questions/how/road-to-damascus/
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July 7, 2015 3:00pm
Shawn Herles

A reply to some of the earlier comments regarding China.

China is not a communist country anymore. Regardless of the name of the party, a historical anachronism, China left any real Marxist/Maoist ideology in the 1980’s. It’s current ideology could best be described as authoritarian nationalist.

More work to do, back later folks.

Play nice children! 😉
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July 7, 2015 3:06pm
Black with a Vengeance

Thanks Shawn, for reminding me of Working For Families.

Another great legacy from the clark/cullen years.
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July 7, 2015 3:08pm
Dennis Horne

Michael (4,454 comments) says: July 7th, 2015 at 10:52 am.

How much does a Grecian earn?

Where have all the flowers gone?
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July 7, 2015 3:15pm
Manolo

European dilemma over the lazy Greeks: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/06/eurozone-struggles-joint-response-greek-referendum

Heads of governments at odds as Germany and European commission let Greece stew while France, Italy and Spain are impatient for a deal.
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July 7, 2015 3:16pm
Jack5

Shawn Herles posted at 3.06:

China is not a communist country anymore. Regardless of the name of the party, a historical anachronism, China left any real Marxist/Maoist ideology in the 1980’s. It’s current ideology could best be described as authoritarian nationalist.

Shawn, China remains a one-party state, and the CIA World Factbook notes of the legislative branch of Government, the National People’s Congress (the equivalent of our Parliament):

In practice, only members of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), its 8 allied parties, and CCP-approved independent candidates are elected

The eight nominally independent political parties are controlled by the Communist Party.

“No substantial political opposition groups exist,” says the CIA World Factbook.

Whether the Communist Party is retreating in the face of non-state capitalism is questionable.

This from the South China Morning Post on 7 May 2015:

China has more than tripled the number of central government owned firms allowed to trade commodities derivatives overseas without regulator approval, sources told Reuters, in a move that will give China more clout in global markets for metals, energy and agricultural products.

Roughly 100 more large government-backed Chinese companies will be permitted to trade in international futures, swaps and options markets, according to three sources with direct knowledge of the changes. It marks the biggest expansion of the list in nearly 10 years.

and, also from the SCMP:

China has 112 central government-owned enterprises, including industry leaders such as China Nuclear Industry Group, China Aviation Industry Group and Dongfeng Automobile Co.

These Chinese banks, which comprise four of the world’s eight biggest banks are owned by the Chinese State: Industrial and Commercial bank of China (world’s biggest), China Construction Bank Corporation (world’s second biggest bank), Agricultural Bank of China (world’s fourth biggest), Bank of China (world’s seventh biggest).
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July 7, 2015 3:31pm
UglyTruth

From Shawn’s first link:

… the criticism fails to take into account the epochal nature of the conversion of Saul, and its importance in the divine scheme of things. Add to this the fact that there were different circumstances underlying the case histories the apostle later introduced, in defending his transformation from Judaism to Christianity (Acts 22,26).

Meaningless hand-waving. The apologist does not explain how the conversion of Saul could be relevant to the specific contradictions in Paul’s accounts.

Thirdly, the critic, doubtless sincere but lacking mature analytical skills, charges that the accounts contradict one another. They do not. Yes, there are differences; one record may supplement another narrative. But supplementation is not the same as contradiction.

Denying that patently contradictory accounts do not exist does not constitute “mature analytical skills”. The accounts do not supplement each other because being told to proceed for instructions and being instructed at the event are mutually exclusive, just as the witness’s recounting of what was said is mutually exclusive with the witnesses not hearing what was said.

And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Acts 9:6

And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Acts 22:9

From Shawn’s second link:

The solution to the apparent contradiction comes from Paul. He said the people with him “did not hear the voice” that spoke to him. The only way for the two accounts to make sense is that the associates heard only a sound, while Paul heard distinct words.

No, the two accounts can also make sense if you abandon the belief that Paul did not lie about the event. In the first account Paul’s associates heard distinct words because the meaning of those words was conveyed to Luke, i.e. they didn’t simply hear an unintelligible sound as the apologist says.
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July 7, 2015 3:35pm
Michael

We don’t know how lucky we are.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/irelands-austerity-success-is-no-model-for-greece-340662.html
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July 7, 2015 4:04pm
starboard

Liarbor cant be have been that great Pongo if we have to remind you of the stupid shit they did. Oh yeah…under dear leaders watch, hiring of bureaucrats and pen pushers in Wellington went through the roof. Thanks to Johnny and co , that number has now been pruned. Hulun was a good one for ‘jobs for the boys’..if you pissed in her pocket hard enough and for long enough , it paid dividends is the way of a cushy number.
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July 7, 2015 4:13pm
cha

Thanks to Johnny and co , that number has now been pruned.

~snort~

The number in Wellington also rose by about 240 to about 18,730 in the past year, almost 300 more than in 2008 when National promised to reduce the size of government.

Although the proportion of the public sector based in Wellington slipped marginally in the June year, the capital still has the largest number of public servants since at least 2000 and probably since state sector reforms carried out in the 1980s

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/63849330/Public-servant-numbers-climb
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July 7, 2015 4:19pm
starboard

It has to climb now Cha because of all the good work National has done these past 3 terms. There is actual work to be done , unlike during Clarks error when bureaucratic bums were just plonked on seats in Welly to appease the Liarbor flunkys. Do keep up boy.
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July 7, 2015 4:36pm
stigie

Blackie:- The public sector went from 26000 to 36000 under Klarks watch in a short space of time as well as beneficiarys put onto the sickness benefit to make figures look better than they really were.

Labour, Klark and kullen knew how to spend other peoples money !~
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July 7, 2015 4:46pm
cha

Labour, Klark and kullen knew how to spend other peoples money

$98.8 billion says Bill’s pretty fucking good at it too.
/

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/newzealand
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July 7, 2015 4:51pm
Manolo

He will have to fight stephieboy first!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/mexico/11702444/Id-like-to-wrestle-Barack-Obama-with-Putin-says-Mexican-wrestler-El-Hijo-del-Fantasma.html
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July 7, 2015 5:04pm
Rachael Membery

OMG Tony Ellis, lol Smith/ Traynor couldn’t wait to get out of Brazil, he certainly wouldn’t have been treated as ‘special’ there
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July 7, 2015 5:11pm
Manolo

The Fox bias …again: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/06/cdc-official-called-obama-marxist-amateur-over-2014-border-crossing-surge/

Emails obtained by the conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch, show a June 9, 2014, exchange between CDC specialist George Roark and agency public health adviser William Adams.

Roark begins by writing: “Unreal, no country in the world would allow this.” Adams responds: “Well, in ten years or less, they’ll all be voting … Commander’s intent …”

Roark concludes: “It is very clear that is the case. This fellow is the worst pres we have ever had. He truly is ‘the amateur’ but a Marxist, too.”
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July 7, 2015 5:18pm
Brigitte

cha (4,717 comments) says:
July 7th, 2015 at 4:51 pm

Labour, Klark and kullen knew how to spend other peoples money

$98.8 billion says Bill’s pretty fucking good at it too.

Except that the official Govt books don’t agree with that number. And never have.

Gross debt is $85.5b and net debt $64.2b (27.0% of GDP). That 27.0% is the figure to compare to Greece’s 175%. This excludes the Cullen Fund, meaning our Net core Crown debt (incl NZS Fund) is $34.6b.

If you don’t believe me check it out at http://www.treasury.govt.nz/government/financialstatements/monthend/pdfs/fsgnz-10mths-apr15.pdf (page 20).
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July 7, 2015 5:31pm
starboard

Cha’s arse just got handed to him on a plate !..enjoy
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July 7, 2015 5:49pm
OneTrack

bwav – “Things are gonna get real ugly and real expensive, real soon…”

Maybe so, but the lefties have been saying that for seven years now and we are still waiting. Just had a quick look, no the sky hasn’t fallen yet. Maybe tomorrow?
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July 7, 2015 6:10pm
hj

Wwwait for it:

In 1991 further amendments to immigration policy and the Immigration Act
were made to allow for the introduction of a ‘points system’ similar to those
used in Canada and Australia (Trlin, 1997). Ranginui Walker (1995: 285), a
prominent Maori academic and strong advocate of recognition of the sovereign
rights of Maori as tangata whenua in Aotearoa/New Zealand, summed up his
recollections of the consultation process regarding these policy changes in the
following words:

In March 1991 the Government Working Party on Immigration
reported to Mr Birch, the Minister of Immigration. The report
recommended the adoption of a points system for the selection of
immigrants with skills and money for business investment in New
Zealand. The Minister called meetings with a limited selection of 13
Maori leaders in Auckland and 14 in Wellington to consider the
report. They were mainly leaders of voluntary organisations. Few of
them represented tribal groups. Although many speakers spoke
against the immigration proposals, they were ignored. When the
Minister was questioned in Parliament during the debate on the
Immigration Amendment Bill, he cited all those in attendance at the
Maori meetings as being ‘broadly positive’ towards his immigration
scheme. This glossing over of Maori opposition is consistent with the
procedure of elites generating policy from above and imposing it on
the people below. The report was a fait accompli, and the Minister’s
restricted discourse with Maori leaders after the fact, gave an illusion
of democratic consultation. The select committee hearings on the Bill
were also a charade. Of the 75 submissions made to the committee, 73
opposed the Bill. The two submissions in favour were made by
immigration consultants, the people who earned substantial fees from
processing immigration papers for clients wanting to get into New Zealand

http://www.waikato.ac.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/74141/dp-37.pdf

So much for those who use the you did it to Maori argument when they side with migrants?
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July 7, 2015 6:30pm
Shawn Herles

“Greek profligacy, pensions and perks cost nation dear”

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/may/07/greek-debt-crisis-jobs

“The Cost of Protecting Greece’s Public Sector”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/11/opinion/the-cost-of-protecting-greeces-public-sector.html?_r=1

When reliably left wing sources like the Guardian and the NY Times get it, it shows how far into fantasy land the Greeks have traveled.
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July 7, 2015 6:30pm
Reid

hj can you explicate your 6.30?

What do you mean by: “So much for those who use the you did it to Maori argument when they side with migrants?”
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July 7, 2015 6:35pm
OneTrack

stephieboy – “One Track , all I was pointing your sweeping assertion that the debate is somehow been shut down which is untrue which blogs like here , the TM message boardi, Whale Oil including Talk Back radio etc, etc perfectly illustrate !”

Ok, so unapproved speech is not allowed on MSM such as National Radio, TVNZ, TV3 and the Herald, but it’s ok because of KiwiBlog, WhaleOil amd Talkback radio. Whew, I was a bit worried there. Just as well we still have a those centre-right blogs and Leighton Smith.
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July 7, 2015 6:35pm
Shawn Herles

“Shawn, China remains a one-party state”

Yes, but it’s not a one party communist state. Marxism is dead in China. Mao’s insane policies killed it.

That was my point. Referring to someone commenting positively about China as “comrade” is just plain silly.

That is not to say there are things seriously wrong about China’s political system. Of course there is. But it has nothing to do with Marxism anymore.
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July 7, 2015 6:38pm
Reid

Yes, but it’s not a one party communist state. Marxism is dead in China.

No, it’s not.

It’s a very interesting situation, these days.

China has plenty of cards to play, like its US securities which could tank the USD and thereby end its status as the USD. It also has Russia as a close ally, which the idiot neocons have driven into its arms.

Its weakness is of course the unrest that could be generated if the double-digit growth stops, which it looks like doing any moment now.

But China’s one party system is a long way from dead. One major advantage is it doesn’t have to fuck around and ask the people what they think before doing something, and in these upcoming interesting times that’s going to be a major plus.

Not that this ever stops the Western democracies but they have to spend a lot of effort applying a lot of lipstick when they do it.

China of course has no probs like that.

And isn’t it interesting its new best friend has a similar history.

Many of course say communism never died in Russia, it simply went underground for awhile. But of course, you need an open mind to look at things like that. If you read something like that from a neocon, naturally, it means nothing. They don’t get Russia, they never have.
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July 7, 2015 6:47pm
Shawn Herles

I’m wondering when UT is going to come out of the closet and admit he’s a Muslim.

“Denying that patently contradictory accounts do not exist does not constitute “mature analytical skills”. ”

This assumes there are “patently contradictory” accounts, but this is not the case, and you have repeatedly failed to show that there is. Your claim is based on assumptions about the text, not the text itself.
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July 7, 2015 6:48pm
RF

I see the Maori ABs team has been picked.

One day I would like to see a Caucasian ABs team picked but that would be racist.

Face palm…..

Who needs a level playing field…..
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July 7, 2015 6:51pm
nasska

….”China has plenty of cards to play, like its US securities which could tank the USD and thereby end its status as the USD.”….

Wouldn’t the US have some sort of strategy prepared to deal with this Reid? After all if they say “get stuffed….we’re not paying” what can China or anyone else actually do about it?
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July 7, 2015 6:55pm
Dennis Horne

Wouldn’t all qualify as both Maori and Caucasian?

It’s called having your cake and eating it.
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July 7, 2015 6:58pm
Reid

Wouldn’t the US have some sort of strategy prepared to deal with this Reid? After all if they say “get stuffed….we’re not paying” what can China or anyone else actually do about it?

nasska its not about that it’s dumping them on the market to crash the USD and if the USD crashes it’s no longer viable as the reserve.

It’s economic warfare. And they will do that if and when it makes sense.

OTOH, maybe they’re all playing the same game.

OTOH, maybe they’re not.

http://www.zengardner.com/george-soros-threatens-russia-china-world-war-iii/

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/guess-what-happened-the-last-time-the-chinese-stock-market-crashed-like-this
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July 7, 2015 7:01pm
Shawn Herles

What Reid fails to understand, well, one of many things, is that the Chinese economy and the US economy are so bound up with each other that each countries prosperity is dependent on the other. If China were to act in the ways Reid thinks it might, it would be catastrophic to the Chinese economy as well. Whatever their other faults, the Chinese leadership are not stupid.

And while Russia and China may look friendly on the outside, the reality is that there are tensions between the two countries on a variety of issues.

A real China-Russia alliance against the US would not be in China’s economic interests. With the current downturn in China’s economy, and the slow upturn in the US’s, this is now more true than ever.

A far more likely development is that over this century China and the US will grow closer.

Russia is just not relevant anymore. It’s a dying country with a failing one note economy. It’s current flailing about in places like the Ukraine is just the Russian leadership trying to pretend otherwise.
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July 7, 2015 7:05pm
hj

Immigration policy reviews
In 1986 a long-awaited review of immigration policy was tabled in Parliament
by the Labour Government (Burke, 1986; Bedford, Farmer and Trlin, 1987;
Trlin, 1992). This review officially ended the traditional source country
preference system which had underlain immigration policy since the 1840s —
the deliberate favouring of countries such as the United Kingdom, and Ireland
as sources of migrants and the careful regulation of entry from countries in Asia
in particular.

Long awaited by the cultural marxists

Walker’s opposition to the immigration policy changes in 1991, which remain
the basis for policy in 2000, was not just directed at the consultation process,
although the lack of an established procedure for involving Maori in
deliberations about immigration policy and the development of New Zealand’s
human resources clearly concerns him. Unlike Canada, where there is an
institutionalised process for consultation over immigration policy, the situation
in New Zealand remains one where Ministers can consult whom they choose
(and in the case of the October 1998 policy initiatives it was Chinese business
people in Auckland who were the main target for consultation).

😯

Walker’s
deeper concern was with the rhetoric of ‘multiculturalism’ which underlay the
policy review of 1986 and the adoption of the points system in 1991. Walker
(1995: 286) notes that the 1986 review “asserted that New Zealand is a country
of immigrants, including the Maori, thus denying their right to prior discovery
and millennial occupation of the land. Defining Maori as immigrants negates
their first-nation status as people of the land by lumping them in with European
immigrants who took over the country, and postwar immigrants from the
Pacific rim.”

A labour social engineering initiative : Maori are “migrants”

There has been little research into Maori perspectives on
immigration; Walker’s (1995) study of the 1991 policy debate is a rare example.
As Pearson (1991: 209) points out, the Waitangi Tribunal has provided both a
new spiritual and ideological focus for Maori politics, as well as a quasi-legal
forum for claims for reparation on a very broad scale from the cultural through
to the material. He goes on to note that it is hardly surprising that “the thorny
question of sovereign powers in polyethnic settler societies” has become very
prominent in New Zealand (Pearson, 1991:209).

They don’t research/poll what they don’t want known.

The report said that whether Australia liked it or not, any changes
that New Zealand made to its immigration policy had an impact on
the size and make-up of flows across the Tasman to Australia.

Back door entry

Enduring ties
A heavy bias in Australia’s favour in trans-Tasman net migration has not
always been the case. Indeed, between 1858 and 1965 New Zealand had an
overall net gain of 123,900 people from Australia as a result of trans-Tasman
population movement. There were particularly heavy net gains in the early
1860s (45,000), the first five years of the twentieth century (35,000) and the
early 1960s (20,000) (Borrie, 1987). Australia was a particularly important
source of migrants during the nineteenth century when New Zealand was
effectively linked into an Australasian colonial administrative system (Belich,
1996; Borrie, 1987 and 1988). It was not until 1901 that Australia became an
independent Federation of States (with an open option for New Zealand to join
the Federation), while New Zealand became a Dominion in the British Empire
in 1907.

Healthy to have ebb and flows between Australia and NZ. It is unhealthy when over loaded countries snd people one way only.

A year later, in 1974, the New Zealand Government introduced restrictions on
the automatic entry of British and Irish citizens for the first time, requiring all
permanent and long-term immigrants, other than those travelling under the
Trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement, to have valid entry visas (Farmer, 1979).
New Zealand still retained a traditional source country preference as the basis of
its immigration policy, but by the mid-1970s it was clear that a diverse flow of
migrants was becoming the rule. New Zealand’s Indo-Chinese Refugee
Resettlement Programme, which was initiated in 1975, in effect launched the
second phase of Asian migration just over a century after the short-lived
‘invasion’ associated with the gold rushes.

http://www.waikato.ac.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/74141/dp-37.pdf
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July 7, 2015 7:05pm
nasska

….”OTOH, maybe they’re all playing the same game.”…..

Probably. I just cant see the US allowing itself to be exposed to such an obvious risk.

When you think about it all the Yanks would have to do is (say) buy Western Samoa & declare that as from midnight tonight the new American currency will be the US Tala. All former US dollar currency & securities can be exchanged for Tala at the discretion of the US Reserve Bank.

Chinese interests need not apply.
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July 7, 2015 7:09pm
UglyTruth

“Denying that patently contradictory accounts do not exist does not constitute “mature analytical skills”. ”

This assumes there are “patently contradictory” accounts, but this is not the case, and you have repeatedly failed to show that there is.

This is the same pattern as last time, Shawn lying about what is patently obvious to anyone with a functional brain.

Here’s a recap of the contradiction from my 8:13:

The witnesses (or at least one of them) tell Luke what the voice said.
Luke records that in Acts 9, and the text substantially agrees with Paul’s account (of Acts 22) of what the voice said.
Paul says that the witnesses did not hear the voice.

Not hearing the voice contradicts hearing the voice (and then telling Luke what it said).

Your claim is based on assumptions about the text, not the text itself.

If you were not lying you would be able to explain what those assumptions are.
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July 7, 2015 7:12pm
EAD

Stephie – thanks for your Henry Makow link at 1.26pm…..very illuminating on the Frankfurt School and its origins.

The below link is an interesting observation on how the AIIB being run by China is just another NWO vehicle like the IMF but that the Globalists are letting the Chinese run out in order to get buy-in from a nationalistic Chinese populace. Basically a good NWO that appears to the general public as being a polar opposite to Western institutions but is really the same pig with different lipstick:

http://redefininggod.com/2015/07/globalist-agenda-watch-2015-update-56-propaganda-vs-reality-examining-globalist-whackadoo-paul-craig-roberts-dialectic-nonsense/
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July 7, 2015 7:15pm
Shawn Herles

“This is the same pattern as last time, Shawn lying about what is patently obvious to anyone with a functional brain.”

You don’t have a functional brain, so not really a relevant point.

Tens of thousands of theologians and Biblical scholars have not seen the issue you claim, and that is including secular Biblical scholars with degrees and decades of experience dealing with the text.

“If you were not lying you would be able to explain what those assumptions are.”

Your assumption is that there is a contradiction in the texts. But as the articles I posted show, that IS an assumption.

You can keep repeating the assumption till the cows come home, it won’t change the fact that your claim is based on an assumption about the text, not the text itself.

So, how long have you been a Muslim for Ugly?
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July 7, 2015 7:17pm
Shawn Herles

“very illuminating on the Frankfurt School and its origins.”

Makow thinks the Frankfurt School was invented by “Satanic Jews.”

That’s only illuminating if you think ‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion’ and ‘Mein Kampf’ are reliable sources of information about the Jews.
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July 7, 2015 7:21pm
RF

Dennis Horne. 6.58pm. My bitch is the title Maori ABs. Pandering to racist protectionism is so dangerous. Medical schools lowering standards, Police College lowering standards etc…. Where is the Mana being a second class citizen.
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July 7, 2015 7:21pm
Shawn Herles

Contradictions in the Qur’an

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

More contradictions in the Qur’an.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/ashraf.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjpa65erIGg
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July 7, 2015 7:33pm
UglyTruth

You don’t have a functional brain, so not really a relevant point.

Says the liar who can’t show where my facts or reasoning is wrong.

Tens of thousands of theologians and Biblical scholars have not seen the issue you claim, and that is including secular Biblical scholars with degrees and decades of experience dealing with the text.

How do you know that the critic from the page your referenced wasn’t a theologian? He saw the issue same as I did.

Your assumption is that there is a contradiction in the texts.

If I had made an assumption then you should be able to show where I’ve got my facts wrong instead of applying political reasoning and effectively arguing that I must be wrong because I’m not singing the same song as the majority.

But as the articles I posted show, that IS an assumption.

They don’t show any such thing. If you weren’t lying you could quote the text from the article that proves you right.

You can keep repeating the assumption till the cows come home, it won’t change the fact that your claim is based on an assumption about the text, not the text itself.

You can keep lying till the cows come home, the fact is that the witnesses must have heard the voice in order for Luke to know what it said, and Paul said that they didn’t hear it.
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July 7, 2015 7:35pm
Dennis Horne

At my science study group today this book was recommended:

The Jesus Dynasty
In 2006 Tabor published The Jesus Dynasty, which interprets Jesus as an apocalyptic Messiah whose extended family founded a royal dynasty in the days before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The form of Christianity that grew out of this movement, led by the apostle Paul, was, according to Tabor, a decisive break with the Ebionite-like original teachings of John the Baptist and Jesus. In a back-jacket endorsement Arthur J. Droge, Professor of New Testament and Early Christian Literature and Director at the University of California at San Diego, writes “James Tabor presents what may be the boldest reconstruction yet of the life and times of Jesus of Nazareth. Working with the surviving evidence like a CSI detective — especially the testimonies concerning Jesus’ family and the Jerusalem Nazarenes — Tabor succeeds in reinscribing what has been lost (and in some cases erased) from the historical record. At once scholarly and accessible, Tabor’s book may very well inaugurate a new phase in the quest for the historical Jesus.”
[continues]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tabor

http://religiousstudies.uncc.edu/james-d-tabor

Any comments?
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July 7, 2015 7:40pm
EAD

@ Shaun Herles,

But isn’t Makow 100% on the money – the vast majority of the protagonists of the Frankfurt School were Jewish in origin, that is undeniable as is who was financing it.

Were their plans “evil”? The Frankfurt School Marxists may not have said to themselves that they wanted to destroy western civilisation but they did say they wanted to change it; change it so radically that it would be warped and unrecognisable to anyone who wasn’t a leftist. Transforming it in this way would indeed be tantamount to destroying it, so it’s not fanciful or fantastical to accuse them of wishing to destroy it.

It’s regrettable that people continue to focus on the Marxist aspect of the left-wing transformational project when it’s clear that its roots go much deeper than that: to the ferment of ideas in 18th century France and the awful fruit they bore in the French revolution.

You could argue that the last 200 years of European history essentially consists of various reactions to the French revolution or as Winston Churchill himself put it:

“In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire”

http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/WSCwrote1920.html
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July 7, 2015 7:42pm
Shawn Herles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fJFMTEwWts
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July 7, 2015 7:47pm
hj

Reid (18,313 comments) says:

hj can you explicate your 6.30?
…….
If you are arguing about immigration someone usually says something like “whose country is it anyway?” so they are supporting Maori and migrants. However they over look that Maori have been fighting against immigration more than anyone
From the quote:
“Although many speakers spoke
against the immigration proposals, they were ignored. When the
Minister was questioned in Parliament during the debate on the
Immigration Amendment Bill, he cited all those in attendance at the
Maori meetings as being ‘broadly positive’ towards his immigration
scheme. This glossing over of Maori opposition is consistent with the
procedure of elites generating policy from above and imposing it on
the people below. The report was a fait accompli, and the Minister’s
restricted discourse with Maori leaders after the fact, gave an illusion
of democratic consultation. The select committee hearings on the Bill
were also a charade. Of the 75 submissions made to the committee, 73
opposed the Bill. The two submissions in favour were made by
immigration consultants, the people who earned substantial fees from
processing immigration papers for clients wanting to get into New Zealand “
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July 7, 2015 7:50pm
starboard

tee hee !…HJ said backdoor entry..snigger
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July 7, 2015 7:50pm
Shawn Herles

So EAD,

We know from your own words that you are opposed to miscegenation, the mixing of the races and the diluting of White peoples blood.

We know that you believe in a conspiracy theory with Jews as the main culprits.

And we know that you oppose Western democracy.

Hmmmmmm….. what does that look like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1owS1v1-WMw
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July 7, 2015 7:52pm
Dennis Horne

Life’s Demerit System

In the world of romance, one single rule applies:

Do something she likes, and you get points.
Do something she dislikes, and points are subtracted.
You don’t get any points for doing something she expects.
Sorry, that’s the way the game is played.
Here is a non-exhaustive guide to the point system:

SIMPLE DUTIES
You make the bed. (+1)
You make the bed, but forget the decorative pillows. (-10)
You throw the bedspread over rumpled sheets. (-3)
You go out to buy her what she wants (+5) in the rain (+8)
But return with Beer. (-5)

PROTECTIVE DUTIES
You check out a suspicious noise at night. (+1)
You check out a suspicious noise, and it is nothing. (0)
You check out a suspicious noise, and it is something. (+5)
You pummel it with an iron rod. (+10)
It’s her pet Schnauzer.. (-30)

SOCIAL ENGAGEMENTS
You stay by her side for the entire party. (+1)
You stay by her side for a while, then leave to chat with an old school friend. (-2)
Named Tina (-10)
Tina is a dancer. (-20)
Tina has breast implants. (-40)

HER BIRTHDAY
You take her out to dinner. (+2)
You take her out to dinner, and it’s not a sports bar. (+3)
Okay, it’s a sports bar. (-2)
And its all-you-can-eat night. (-3)
It’s a sports bar, it’s all-you-can-eat night, and your face is painted the colors of your favorite team. (-10)

A NIGHT OUT
You take her to a movie. (+1)
You take her to a movie she likes. (+5)
You take her to a movie you hate. (+6)
You take her to a movie you like. (-2)
It’s called ‘Death Cop.’ (-3)
You lied and said it was a foreign film about orphans. (-15)

YOUR PHYSIQUE
You develop a noticeable potbelly. (-15)
You develop a noticeable potbelly and exercise to get rid of it (+10)
You develop a noticeable potbelly and resort to baggy jeans and baggy Hawaiian shirts. (-30)
You say to her, “It doesn’t matter, you have one too.” (-80)

THE BIG QUESTION
She asks, “Do I look fat?” (-5)
(Yes, you lose points no matter what)
You hesitate in responding. (-10)
You reply, “Where?” (-35)
You give any other response. (-40)

COMMUNICATION
When she wants to talk about a problem, you listen, displaying what looks like a concerned expression. (+2)
You listen, for over 30 minutes (+50)
You listen for more than 30 minutes without looking at the TV. (+500)
She realizes this is because you have fallen asleep. (-4000)
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July 7, 2015 7:53pm
Shawn Herles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSyPgQeGlgU
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July 7, 2015 7:59pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@ DH

Any comments?

Avoid study groups
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July 7, 2015 8:00pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xef7c7zzqfk8mvt/Muslim%2053.jpg?dl=0
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July 7, 2015 8:09pm
EAD

Shaun, what are you actually like in real life?

Maybe it’s just me but there is something I find particularly annoying about:

-Your chip on your shoulder about European colonialism,
-Your John Key sycophancy,
-Your Nazi name calling,
-Your sucking up to anyone on the anti D4J, Penny Bright bandwagon,
-Your ability to destroy a thread with multiple loud mouth posts or banality, thus drowning out all others,
-The lies and constant misrepresentation of others arguments to arrive at your predetermined narrative,
-The arrogant pretense that you’re the all-knowing all-seeing purveyor of high brow, high minded conservatism

I’m sure there are plenty of others!
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July 7, 2015 8:09pm
Dennis Horne

Maggy. We had a video lecture by Roger Penrose. The book came up over coffee. No conversion! 😉

Anyway, just throwing a cat amongst the pigeons.
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July 7, 2015 8:16pm
Dennis Horne

There was an old soldier called Herles
Who wanted to be one of the girls
He attacked enemies day ‘n night
With all his Christian might
Can’t wait to see what unfurls
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July 7, 2015 8:20pm
Maggy Wassilieff

just throwing a cat amongst the pigeons.

Christ, I’ve been trying to do this for days… but the buggas don’t give up trying to convert the heathen.

Surely, you can keep me amused for another few postings with your wealth of misogyny.
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July 7, 2015 8:21pm
Dennis Horne

So, I was walking through the mall and saw that there was a “Muslim Book Store.”

I was wondering what exactly was in a Muslim bookstore so I went in.

As I was wandering around taking a look, the clerk stopped me and asked if he could help me. I imagine I didn’t look like his normal clientele, so I asked, “Do have a copy of the Australian Immigration Policy Book regarding Muslims?”

The clerk said, “Fuck off, get out and stay out!

I said, “Yes, that’s the one. Do you have it in paperback?”
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July 7, 2015 8:29pm
Reid

So EAD,

We know from your own words that you are opposed to miscegenation, the mixing of the races and the diluting of White peoples blood.

We know that you believe in a conspiracy theory with Jews as the main culprits.

And we know that you oppose Western democracy.

Actually Captain Bananas, we know nothing about any of those things from EADs own words. How would you like to quote him, as opposed to your own made-up quotes, that proves each one of those. You seem so confident, it should be a doddle. Quote away. Hyperlinks required.

No excuses accepted for not doing so Captain Bananas. You herl the abuse, you justify it. Go ahead.
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July 7, 2015 8:30pm
stigie

Maggie, was Horns romantic demerit system a bit close to home ?
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July 7, 2015 8:31pm
Dennis Horne

Maggy. I love women. Clever women.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/CI8UPHMzZm8?rel=0%29
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July 7, 2015 8:34pm
Reid

hj still don’t get it. I understand the point you’re making, it’s not new. Maori have always been against anything which dilutes their own power, unless the senior people get their palms greased, then its OK.

But I’m not sure why you’re making it. Are you saying the points system is bad, or what are you saying?

I’m not worried, should I just drop it?
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July 7, 2015 8:37pm
UglyTruth

Any comments?

“There was a version of Christianity before Paul that was affirmed by both Jesus and his original followers, and had tenets quite different from those of Paul’s Christianity. The shocking truth, according to Tabor, is that Paul decisively broke with Jesus’ original followers midway through his career, openly labeling them as “false apostles” and “servants of Satan.””

Not exactly. The name of Christianity originates with Pauline doctrine, not with the Messianism that preceded it. The original disciples were called the people of the way, or people of sharia. But Tabor is quite right about the schism.

Here’s a verse which shows Paul’s singular doctrine:

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:8

… and one which shows James’ rejection of Pauline doctrine:

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:20
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July 7, 2015 8:43pm
hj

Cultural Marxism
“Boas was one of the most prominent opponents of the then popular ideologies of scientific racism, the idea that race is a biological concept and that human behavior is best understood through the typology of biological characteristics.[7] In a series of groundbreaking studies of skeletal anatomy he showed that cranial shape and size was highly malleable depending on environmental factors such as health and nutrition, in contrast to the claims by racial anthropologists of the day that held head shape to be a stable racial trait. Boas also worked to demonstrate that differences in human behavior are not primarily determined by innate biological dispositions, but are largely the result of cultural differences acquired through social learning. In this way, Boas introduced culture as the primary concept for describing differences in behavior between human groups, and as the central analytical concept of anthropology.[6]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Boas
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July 7, 2015 8:45pm
hj

Shawn herles:

Opposition to this:
The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and “rub the Right’s nose in diversity”, according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

doesn’t make you a Nazi
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July 7, 2015 8:49pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Stigie

re Physique in the Horne demerit system

For 40+ years, the husband has worn long-sleeved cotton shirts summer & winter. … Never exposed his arms to the sun…..
He has never worn jeans in his life. (He has never watched a rugby match in his life…… how he managed this during 5 yrs at PNBHS is beyond me)
But last yr (when we shifted to Gisborne) he decided to venture into Hawaiian shirts… they work well with his pot belly… +20.
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July 7, 2015 8:49pm
hj

Enduring ties
A heavy bias in Australia’s favour in trans-Tasman net migration has not
always been the case. Indeed, between 1858 and 1965 New Zealand had an
overall net gain of 123,900 people from Australia as a result of trans-Tasman
population movement. There were particularly heavy net gains in the early
1860s (45,000), the first five years of the twentieth century (35,000) and the
early 1960s (20,000) (Borrie, 1987).
…….
A year later, in 1974, the New Zealand Government introduced restrictions on
the automatic entry of British and Irish citizens for the first time, requiring all
permanent and long-term immigrants, other than those travelling under the
Trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement, to have valid entry visas (Farmer, 1979).
New Zealand still retained a traditional source country preference as the basis of
its immigration policy, but by the mid-1970s it was clear that a diverse flow of
migrants was becoming the rule.
…….
Shouldn’t the public have the say so on immigration rather than elites? We should only be opening doors if it is beneficial to the people. If there is a lovely place in Africa and we aren’t going to be flooded, then let’s have a two-way relationship.
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July 7, 2015 8:58pm
stigie

Maggie, you can still be in love with a man with a pot belly….I love that. +5000
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July 7, 2015 8:59pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@stigie

don’t confuse habit with love
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July 7, 2015 9:05pm
hj

Standard social science model

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term the Standard Social Science Model (SSSM) was first introduced to a wide audience by John Tooby and Leda Cosmides in the 1992 edited volume The Adapted Mind,[1] to describe the “blank slate”, “relativist”, “social constructionist” and “cultural determinist” perspectives that they argue have formed the dominant theoretical paradigm in the social sciences as they developed during the 20th century. According to this alleged paradigm, the mind is a general-purpose cognitive device shaped almost entirely by culture
Alleged proponents[edit]

Steven Pinker names several prominent scientists as proponents of the standard social science model, including Franz Boas, Margaret Mead, B. F. Skinner, Richard Lewontin, John Money, Stephieboy and Stephen Jay Gould.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_social_science_model
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July 7, 2015 9:10pm
Dennis Horne

Maggy. Don’t kid yourself. There may be room for someone else too but it’s a dream. You know that.
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July 7, 2015 9:12pm
Paul Marsden

RIP Craig Norgate
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July 7, 2015 9:19pm
David Garrett

Sorry if someone has already broken this news on KB…the moronic Pebbles Hooper has “resigned” (yeah right) from her positions as co-editor of the Herald’s gossip page, and her agony auntlet column – if you can call 75 words a column – in “Canvas” magazine…The terse announcement by the editor announcing the “resignation” suggests that Pebbles swiftly got in before the editor did it for her..

I have not a shred of sympathy for her…and if makes similarly vapid youthful -and not so youthful – persons think twice before sharing their every thought with the other twits, so much the better…
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July 7, 2015 9:22pm
David Garrett

Maggy: that great writer Somerset Maugham once observed: “the greatest killer of love is habit”…although I think the breakdown of his marriage was more to do with the fact that he was a raving poof – to adopt the vernacular of the time – rather than any excessive familiarity with her…
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July 7, 2015 9:51pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@DG
I haven’t read much Maugham….. maybe I’ll tackle his Malaysian Stories, one day.

I don’t think many of us can figure out which marriages will work and which will fail.
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July 7, 2015 10:04pm
David Garrett

Maggy: He was the most fantastic observer – and writer about – human nature…particular male female relationships, which is interesting given his own sexual orientation…Is there a classic video store in Gisborne these days? Probably not…but then Netflix and all those things have taken over rather..

Try and hire “The Letter” with Bette Davis…1940 I think… a very faithful adaptation of Maugham’s story of the same name…But of the stories, “Footsteps in the jungle”; “The bookbag”; “Flotsam and jetsam”..as you suggest, those set in Malaya (as it hen was) are the best…
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July 7, 2015 10:08pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@DG
Tx…. will follow up
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July 7, 2015 10:19pm
Dennis Horne

http://viralcraze.net/pop-culture/the-10-most-adulterous-countries-in-the-world/
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July 7, 2015 10:26pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Just watching the London bombing service on BBC.
My youngest daughter was in London at the time on a school trip (Wellington High School)
She had emailed me the night before that they were going in to Harrod’s by tube the next morning (7th).
When I heard news of the bombing I spent the next couple of frantic hours trying to email other parents etc to find out if anyone had heard from the kids.
Then the Principal emailed us to say she had heard from them and they were all OK at their hotel.
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July 7, 2015 10:36pm
David Garrett

Dear Editor,

I understand you have a vacancy for a columnist – if one can call 75-100 words a column – to replace the vapid Pebbles Hooper, who has “resigned” … I imagine the girl was smart enough to realise it was prudent to fall upon her sword before you yourself eviscerated her.

I wish to apply for the position. I think New Zealand is ready for the kind of robust mature – male – advice I can provide on matters of the heart, and other topics upon which young Pebbles attempted to be both insightful and amusing. I come with many positive attributes, including not needing the advice and assistance of a spell checker to construct an English sentence. (On second thoughts perhaps in today’s media that is no longer an advantage…) I am also very cheap!

I look forward to hearing from you by return.

Sincerely,

David Garrett SC (Tonga)
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July 7, 2015 10:47pm
Inandout

Shit, not another one.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/70048286/kapiti-baby-suffers-serious-head-injury
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July 7, 2015 11:19pm
Shawn Herles

“Shawn herles:

Opposition to this:
The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and “rub the Right’s nose in diversity”, according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

doesn’t make you a Nazi”

I never said it did hj. I was very clear about the elements that makes EAD’s ideology a slight variation on Nazism. When you take all the elements of EAD’s ideology together, there is only one logical conclusion.
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July 8, 2015 7:29am
Manolo

Keeping stephieboy informed with the latest news: http://www.nationaljournal.com/2016-elections/hillary-clinton-on-her-last-rodeo-20150707
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July 8, 2015 7:47am

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